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6: What Is Priestly Formation?
25 Plays4 days ago
Father Jeff Dole, the Rector of St. Pius X Seminary at Loras College in Dubuque, walks us through the key features of the PPF 6, for instance:
The 4 Dimensions of Formation:
Human - Spiritual - Pastoral - Intellectual
The Four Stages of Seminary Formation:
Propaedeutic, Discipleship, Configuration and Vocational Synthesis
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Hosts and Guest
00:00:14
Speaker
Hello, everyone. Happy November. My name is Father Jacob Rouse, and I am the pastor of Notre Dame Parish in Cresco, Iowa. And welcome to the DeBucharistic Revival Podcast Season 2.
00:00:25
Speaker
Because that's the name we're going with. Thank you, Father Kevin. um Who are you? I'm Father Kevin Earlywide, pastor of St. Mary's Catholic Church in Ackley and St. Patrick's in Hampton.
00:00:37
Speaker
I'm co-hosting this podcast. You are co-hosting. um Today we have a very exciting guest. We have the rector of St. Pius X Seminary, Father Jeff Dole.
00:00:48
Speaker
And I'd like him to introduce himself, but how how reverend are you? Are you very reverend? I suppose I am. i suppose the church gives me the title the title, very reverend, but it's not because of me. It's because of the office that I'm
Role and Importance of Priestly Formation
00:01:05
Speaker
in. Obviously, the church cares very deeply about priestly formation.
00:01:11
Speaker
And there's a lot at stake in obviously bringing about the life of Christ in the hearts of these men who are discerning a call to the priesthood.
00:01:22
Speaker
And that's my responsibility. So the very reverend, it might sound like it's just, you know, it's all about me, but... Really, it reminds me of what I'm supposed to be all about ah for for the sake of others, ah devoting myself to the work of bringing about these these guys um to be able to to pray and to discern what they need to discern.
00:01:47
Speaker
That is a is a very, very reverent call that you have. That's right. But no, it's good to it's good to be here with you guys. Thanks for the invitation to have me on.
00:01:58
Speaker
Like you said, my name is Father Jeff Dole. I am the rector of the St. Pius X Seminary here at Loris College in Dubuque, Iowa. I'm also the sacramental priest at St. Columkill, which is our local parish where the seminary is.
00:02:14
Speaker
So I go over there from time to time and help celebrate Mass. um Just like the two of you, I'm a priest of the Archdiocese of Dubuque, happy to serve wherever the Archbishop sends me.
00:02:24
Speaker
He has sent me before to places like Dyersville and Worthington and Petersburg and New Vienna and Earlville, as well as Jessup and Dunkerton and by association with Don Bosco to Gilbertville.
00:02:39
Speaker
um But the past four years, he sent me over to Rome to do a little study to try to get smart, hopefully to get a degree, which is pending. And now he's has he has me here, um hopefully to put to use that that knowledge that I've been learning these past four years.
00:02:59
Speaker
But more than anything, hopefully to prepare the ah the next generation of priests for our archdiocese. Well, you've been everywhere, man. um How long have you been a priest?
00:03:11
Speaker
So I've been a priest for 11 years. And in no way does that make me feel old. i still I still feel like it has only been a couple years. I mean, that's partly, I suppose, that's life. Life just goes quicker than what we think it does.
00:03:27
Speaker
But partly it's also just shows the great variety of the life of a priest. um We do so many different things. ah Every day is a little bit different than the last.
00:03:39
Speaker
ah Every year is a little bit different than the last. And man, when when you're having fun, time flies, as they say. Amen. That's a good way to say it.
Seminary Education and Formation
00:03:48
Speaker
Well, the reason we wanted to have you on specifically is because, as you know, season two is highlighting specific movements and ministries within the archdiocese. And You are in the Archdiocese. We wanted to talk a little bit about um seminary formation, what it's like, but sorry, what it was like, what it's like now and why that's important.
00:04:08
Speaker
um So before we get to you, ah Father Kevin, where did you go to seminary and what was your formation like? Oh, yeah. I actually went to a place called St. Pius X Seminary in Dubuque, Iowa, which is, in fact, where, as was already named, where Father Jeff Dole is now currently serving as rector, though at the time I was there, he was not the rector.
00:04:29
Speaker
um And then, of course, um I was among the first Dubuque seminarians to be sent to Mundelein Seminary, to study theology, and did four years there and was ordained.
00:04:42
Speaker
so So I think we were under, we were using then something called the the the Program of Priests Information, PPF, I believe the fifth edition. Is that what we were all under? That's right.
00:04:53
Speaker
think so. I actually went to St. Pius Seminary Loris College, did an undergraduate in the in philosophy and lived in the same house as Father Kevin Earlywine and then ah followed him to Mundelein Seminary in ah northern Chicago.
00:05:14
Speaker
Very Reverend Jeff Dole, where did you go to seminary? So I also went to St. Pius X seminary here at Lawrence College, just like the two of you. um It's very common. It still is for guys to get a degree in philosophy. And here in the archdiocese, um we start the process of seminary. to get that degree here.
00:05:36
Speaker
um And so just like the two of you, i was here. And then I was sent over to Rome to the Pontifical North American College with a few other of our seminarians before we sent exclusively to Mundelein. As in your time, ah we were split up to different seminaries, depending on the will of the archbishop, wherever he kind of wanted guys to go. And so I went over with two others to Rome and got a theology degree over there.
00:06:06
Speaker
So it sounds like the main part of everyone who's a priest, no matter the diocese or archdiocese, is going to get a philosophy degree first and then get a theology degree somewhere.
00:06:20
Speaker
That's right. Now, way back when we used to do all of that right here, homegrown in Dubuque, Iowa, way back when we had a place called St. Bernard's Seminary.
00:06:31
Speaker
And after getting a philosophy degree ah from Loras College, guys would just stay right here in town. continue their formation and get a theology degree from St. Berners.
00:06:42
Speaker
um But back in the early 70s, that closed down. And from that point on, we started sending guys away to get their theology degree. um So we continue to get a philosophy degree here in Dubuque, um but our theology degree is sent away from It's kind of an interesting thing that the church would have us so well educated.
00:07:05
Speaker
um Like Father Kevin, do you know why? Why did you have to study philosophy and Descartes and Plato before learning about Jesus and the church and ah you know actually those priestly things that you do and you love and you're all about now?
Philosophy's Role in Theology
00:07:25
Speaker
Well, I'll tell you what, when I started as a seminarian my first year, I asked that very question. why do i have to study this philosophy ah because i started with modern philosophy too so that was uh what is the meaning of anything does anything exist however i've come to really appreciate it um and so uh i there's many reasons why the church has a study philosophy um but what i came to appreciate is of course um first of all just the uh the history of thought um and and how much kind of what are the big questions because philosophy of course delves with those big questions that do kind of ah bleed over into theology you know questions like what is the meaning of what does it mean to be good and to live life well what is the meaning of our existence um what is the the the human soul and and and how do we apply our reason to understand those deeper questions um so those were all certainly
00:08:20
Speaker
um ah questions but what ah a couple other things i came to really appreciate about it um more later when i was studying theology one is uh just the skill of learning to kind of enter into a kind of ah someone's worldview and thinking and being able to kind of play that out to its uh kind of natural consequence because uh i found that it's just a very practical pastoral thing right because we get different thought patterns or people have different ideas and you kind of and helping you understand the person and where they're coming from, kind of have to enter into their kind of their framework of thinking and thought and philosophy certainly cultivates that skill.
00:08:59
Speaker
But also of course, um, Christians, um, the early Christians very much built upon philosophy, um, as Roman, you know, philosophy was very common in the Roman empire. And so the early Christians, as they were articulating theology, uh, very much built on the, uh,
00:09:15
Speaker
using philosophical terms and building on that to help articulate the faith. um They say theology is faith seeking understanding and that philosophy was kind of ah ah priming the way to give a kind of mode of articulation to understand theology and our great theologian giants like Saint Augustine and Saint Thomas Aquinas ah who were very formative in our theology, drew very heavily upon the foundation of the philosophers like Plato and Aristotle.
00:09:46
Speaker
um Yeah, and then I guess lastly, just engaging the world and trying to understand the world and where they're at in their thinking. ah Philosophy kind of helps us understand sort of contemporary thinking and and how to engage with that.
00:09:58
Speaker
So those are some of my responses, why the church would have us study philosophy. what what Father Jeff, what grade would you give Kevin in that answer? Oh, I would give him an A+. plus oh A++. plus plus No, Father Kevin did very well.
00:10:14
Speaker
And indeed, um philosophy is the handmaiden right of theology. And so before we dive into our theological studies, it is important for us to get that wider context of human thinking and human thought together.
00:10:30
Speaker
which is a ah great privilege. you know Some of the guys in seminary, maybe myself included, you know we kind of moan and groan about having to put in all of these long, hard years ah from class to class, ah going through philosophy.
00:10:46
Speaker
um But it does, it opens the mind to ask the questions. when you When you go to seminary, You don't have to be a straight A student like Father Kevin, who gives these awesome answers.
00:10:57
Speaker
you ah You are asked, though, to apply yourself in such a way as to open your mind and open your heart ah to just a greater reality um than just our little meager selves.
00:11:11
Speaker
um Ultimately, we're opening ourselves up ah to receive the answer that is Jesus Christ. And that's a pretty big answer. So you really kind of have to open up that mind.
00:11:22
Speaker
You don't want just to give him a little bit of space. You want to give him a lot of bit of space to make a home ah in your heart. So yeah, philosophy continues to be and was a very important aspect of seminary prior to going off to theology.
00:11:41
Speaker
Yeah, I would definitely echo that as well. um Maybe not as well spoken as Father Kevin, ah but learning everyone from the Catholic theologian philosophers to the famous atheist philosophers.
00:11:55
Speaker
I mean, people... who you encounter in the parish may not exactly know who Immanuel Kant or David Hume were or was, but they are definitely influenced by their thought from morality to the existence of the divine.
00:12:11
Speaker
And yeah, all those are still out there. And so to be able to study them and name them and identify them and then how they either relate or understand, uh, our faith. I think it's very, very important.
00:12:24
Speaker
So, yeah, now of course, father, father, Jacob, I'm going to put you on the spot now since Father Kevin did such a great job of answering a question.
00:12:36
Speaker
if you get an A this time. Yeah, we'll see if you get an A++.
Four Pillars of Seminary Education
00:12:40
Speaker
plus plus So learning philosophy, learning theology, going to class, that's just one pillar, shall we say, upon which the whole experience of being formed for the priesthood, the whole experience of seminary is all about.
00:12:56
Speaker
um There are others that ah It's not just about class or philosophy. ah Can you name, in addition to the intellectual pillar, the other three pillars upon which your formation stood?
00:13:12
Speaker
Ah, the ship. Yes, yes. The mighty ship that sails through formation. The intellectual, which we've named, the spiritual...
00:13:25
Speaker
the pastoral and then the human formation. Oh, applause. All four of these pillars support priestly formation. Or if you want to go with another image that was used as the human formation is the ah base of the ship.
00:13:40
Speaker
And then the three others are the masts that carry it with the sail. um Yeah. So as as Father Jeff, did I get an A plus?
00:13:53
Speaker
Yeah, of course. you named them. Good. Yeah, because being a priest and you can know stuff and a lot of us know some things. um And as we obviously have seen, that is not everything. um There has to be a a a balance and an integration of of who the person is who is going through seminary formation. And that's why there's not just the intellectual, the grades, the academic work, but there's the spiritual, pastoral, and human. You want to talk a little bit about...
00:14:24
Speaker
each one of those? Oh yeah, absolutely. um You can definitely say that the human formation is increasingly being recognized as one of the most important aspects, maybe taken for granted that guys who are discerning the call to the priesthood um would know how to relate, would understand relationships and boundaries, would um be able to enter into human relationships, ah you know, as they need.
00:14:52
Speaker
um It's something that increasingly we can't just take for granted. There's a lot about our society that keeps us, well, perhaps not fully human, right? Whether it's technology and and screens, um whether it's ah just the individualism and the materialism that can continues to dominate in our society.
00:15:15
Speaker
There's just so many factors that kind of keep us just kind of in our box. And so formation, in addition to teaching philosophy and theology, is meant to challenge guys to go deeper into their own humanity. and to explore and to see who it is that they truly are and what they're truly capable of.
00:15:35
Speaker
um And the sort of friend and the sort of brother that they're called to be to others. um Of course, this then is only made more magnificent by that spiritual pillar, right?
00:15:49
Speaker
um That pillar of going deeply into the Holy Spirit, going deeply into prayer and recognizing that he is present to give gifts, to give charisms, to enliven and to send them forward.
00:16:04
Speaker
And so, In addition to kind of seeing and viewing our humanity, we want to also see and view the humanity of Christ enlivened by the Spirit. Because the more we put that in front of our eyes and in and and front of our hearts, ah the more we'll resemble that and be Christ for the sake of others.
00:16:24
Speaker
And then lastly, having been so formed, of course, we need to give of ourselves ah for the sake of others. And that's what the pastoral pillar was all about, right? Equipping us with the know-how um of how it is that the church ah hands on the faith through the celebration of the sacraments, through her prayer and the liturgy of the hours.
00:16:47
Speaker
and through all of the different celebrations um that that the church continues to ah to hand on from generation to generation. um And so guys need to engage um with that and test it out, pray in front of people, um you know lead a Bible study, um catechize the faith to others.
00:17:09
Speaker
And through all of that, they also um are helped and aided in their discernment of whether or not the Lord is calling them in this direction. Hmm. Well, if I have any authority vested in me as co-host of this podcast, I would give you an A plus as well.
00:17:26
Speaker
Oh, wow. That's very generous. Very generous indeed. So we were all undergoing priestly formation kind of together and at different times, 11 max years ago.
00:17:39
Speaker
And we all were operating under those ah four pillars of formation. As it was said, Father Kevin and I went to Loras for... three two to three years to get philosophy. And then we went to Mundelein for four years. And the trajectory of that was we were installed as candidates to serve our first year.
00:17:59
Speaker
Then we had our second year and then our third year. And then we were ordained deacons the spring after our junior year, we'll call it. And then ah we served or lived as seniors, as it were, for an entire school year. And then were ordained a priest and graduated.
00:18:17
Speaker
So seems like that's kind of how it was. um And of course, with ah various internships and and um parish work intermingled with all the academics, but it was ah four years of basically graduate study and then being ordained at the end of it. Is is that still kind of the same schedule or trajectory that we're working with right now?
Updates to Priestly Formation Program
00:18:42
Speaker
So it's um still somewhat the rough outline. And yet, even though we were all formed under the fifth edition of the PPF, or the Program for Priestly Formation, um newly minted in the past few years is the sixth edition of the PPF.
00:19:02
Speaker
And with the sixth edition, there are some modifications. There are are some changes. um Changes to both the beginning as well as the end.
00:19:12
Speaker
And also kind of a change that reformulates everything in between. Because we've been talking about the four pillars, but now that nomenclature is so old.
00:19:24
Speaker
It's so last year, you know. and Now all the kids are talking about it as dimensions. And the reason why is because when you think of a pillar, you think of something solid and on its own.
00:19:38
Speaker
And if you think of something being supported by pillars, each pillar kind of has its own space. um It divides up the load and is therefore able to carry the weight down to the ground on its own, so to speak.
00:19:52
Speaker
And there's a risk in that to think of this intellectual um pillar as separate from the pastoral, as separate from the spiritual, as separate from the human, as if they don't actually interact and reinforce one another and actually blend beautifully.
00:20:09
Speaker
Because when we say preach the gospel, for instance, it's not just us being pastoral. We also have to connect with our audience, which relies on us being very human. We also have to, well, connect with our audience through the Spirit and through our own life um given in the Spirit. So our spiritual lives are certainly going to need to to be made bare.
00:20:32
Speaker
But then also all that we've learned also will hopefully come out in what we are saying when we preach. And so all of those pillars are, in a sense, activated. And so now the nomenclature is dimensions.
00:20:45
Speaker
They are not four pillars, but four dimensions. And you might think that, oh, it's just um a change in language. um But it really is a change in the intent of ah how seminaries carry out their formation and how we identify certain components and aspects to the day in, day out grind, so to speak,
00:21:08
Speaker
of of the seminary formation that guys go through. um It's to be able to see and to experience how all of these things play into a well-rounded individual who will hopefully be ordained one day.
00:21:23
Speaker
So that's one of the big changes. Now, now fathers, you both, you spent how many years here at, at Loras for your philosophy degree, two, three years, something like that. yeah Two years for me.
00:21:38
Speaker
Because I, yeah, I was, I was on the father Kevin accelerated and plan as well. I was, I was only here for two years and it was somewhere between two or four years once upon a time.
00:21:49
Speaker
And now there's a recognition that because because guys who are discerning um are coming in ah to seminary with all sorts of questions, with all sorts of different experiences, with all sorts of different maybe obstacles,
00:22:05
Speaker
that might prevent them or keep them from actually entering into formation and hearing ah the vocational call ah of the Lord in their heart, um that there needs to be maybe a little bit more of an intention to give guys time to actually enter into.
00:22:22
Speaker
in because the risk was back in our day was we show up, we move in, they hand us our course load and this is our schedule. We have to buy our books and off we go.
00:22:35
Speaker
And then the intellectual pillar, so to speak, kind of reigned supreme. And it was the thing that got all of our attention. And of course,
00:22:46
Speaker
neglecting the spiritual side of things, neglecting the human side of things really kept us from maybe being able to fully benefit from all that seminary was going to have for us.
00:22:58
Speaker
And so now we have, get this guys, get ready. um If you or your listeners can spell this on the first try, you win my respect. We call it the propedeutic year.
00:23:10
Speaker
Propedeutic. It means to prepare. It means to get ready. And the first year that men join seminary now is meant to be set aside apart from philosophy. In fact, they're not even supposed to necessarily engage with actual formal philosophy um coursework.
00:23:32
Speaker
um They're just meant to have some space to kind of get going, but really delve deeply into their spiritual lives, into scripture and into Christ communicating with them ah through ah various prayers and the experience of adoration and coming together and praying the rosary, ah doing Lectio Divina, that it's there as well as a kind of a deep dive into what does it mean to be human?
00:23:59
Speaker
What does the Catholic church teach about um who we are as human? And certainly John Paul II, whose feast we just celebrated recently, had much to say when it came to the theology of the body, when it came to who we are as persons and that as persons were meant to be gifts.
00:24:15
Speaker
And so we lead men now in their first year into a more intentional focus on those two dimensions of formation, the spiritual and the human, so as to prepare them for all of the intellectual stuff that will follow, as well as all of the pastoral stuff that they will be called to.
00:24:34
Speaker
So now guys, when they come to seminary, we'll always start with that first propodutic year. And then after that, they might only need two years to get a philosophy degree. Maybe they'll need three or perhaps even four.
00:24:48
Speaker
um But whatever it might be, they'll always start with that one dedicated year. A year that um we didn't necessarily have, but at least in my own reflection, I think I probably could have used it.
00:25:02
Speaker
I don't know about you guys, but what were you guys coming from when you guys discerned your call to the priesthood? What track in life were you at and how much of a kind of a gear shift was it for you to all of a sudden be in a philosophy class and be in seminary?
00:25:20
Speaker
Well, I was a perfectly formed saint when I started seminary. Just kidding. Just kidding. So, yeah. Back in my day, back when I went to seminary, we had four separate marble pillars and we liked it.
00:25:36
Speaker
But ah i I'll give this a dimension talk all a all a chance here and stay on the call. But um no, that's a very good question. When I i was um joined seminary and decided I'm going to try out seminary and probably be a priest one day.
00:25:56
Speaker
There's still a lot of questions, a lot of doubt. I didn't understand myself. And then launch right into coursework and the own the work and anxieties that came with that. Then trying to figure out myself, human relationships, all of that.
00:26:09
Speaker
um Not that the what we had at the time was ah good. and But however, I can really see how the... the The soft entry and the dimensions overlapping and bleeding together could be extremely beneficial ah to a man who's good. Because discerning, we've talked a lot about learning things and then even listening to what Jesus has to say to us and the Holy Spirit's movement throughout the day.
00:26:41
Speaker
ah But there's also discernment as well. Like you, I entered not knowing if I was going to be a priest or not, if I was going to to see this through. it's an And that's not a bad thing. It's an ongoing discernment, kind of like dating before you get engaged.
00:26:56
Speaker
um Yeah, so I can see how those would really, really benefit ah someone who's exploring their vocation. Yeah. and And in fact, that that question, um that question, am I called to be a priest?
00:27:10
Speaker
You don't have to have that answer right from the get-go. In fact, the Program for Priestly Formation kind of envisions that a man would come into that first year, that propedeutic year, and really just want to settle a different question.
00:27:26
Speaker
Of course, that question will be on their mind. But the real more immediate question is, do I want to give myself to this relationship with the church as a seminarian, as someone who is intentionally discerning, being set aside from the world and the worries of work and how to you know meet the bills, ah whether it's water, electricity, or whatever, all of the different concerns in life The church just wants men to first give themselves the permission to be able to be set aside from all of that and to have the space to discern, to understand.
00:28:08
Speaker
It's like, just like in a relationship, the first question, I mean, might not be the the big question, right? The first question isn't, are we going to get married? Right. The first question is, do I just want to date with this person?
00:28:22
Speaker
That's why you go on that first date. And that's why you go into that first year of seminary. Do you want to actually be set aside in this world? Do you actually want to devote space to Christ and give yourself over to being formed and to being an open to this call?
00:28:40
Speaker
That's the more immediate question. And that's what our seminarians have that first year in order to answer. Because after that first year, they can come back and say, you know what, this was really good for me, but I don't think that I'm called to be set apart like this.
00:28:57
Speaker
I don't think that this is where I need to be. I feel like the Lord is... He has something for me elsewhere. And that's that's great. And then the other side of it, it's not, oh, I'm definitely going to be a priest. It's, no, this is what I need in order to understand whether or not the Lord is calling me to the priesthood.
00:29:16
Speaker
um That question, the big question is still open after their first year. um It's then that they go into a different stage of discernment, no longer preparing and discerning whether or not seminary is for them.
00:29:30
Speaker
But then in that next stage, that discipleship stage, they start to ask the question, is my relationship with Christ as his disciple actually called to be something more and to actually perhaps be configured like him and so live like him as a celibate priest in the church?
00:29:54
Speaker
And so that might be two or three years after that initial first year. um And so each stage of seminary is supposed to ask a different question and it's supposed to build upon the others until you get to the point, right?
00:30:10
Speaker
which would happen in the last stage, well, the second to last stage, the configuration stage, where the question there really is about becoming a priest and laying down one's life like Christ ah for the sake of the church.
00:30:26
Speaker
um It's there that that question actually becomes the question that is on the mind and the heart of the seminarian. So I think it's worth highlighting, speaking of new nomenclature for for us priests who are under it ah the PPF edition number five, um that yeah we essentially just conceive of the sages of philosophy and theology, right? Two years of philosophy, four years theology, there's deacon ordination in there, and then you ordained a priest, right?
00:30:55
Speaker
And so so what you're highlighting is in addition to this propedeutic year, which is new, and I believe this is just the second year we've been doing it here in the Archdiocese of Dubuque ever, you know, ah but I think it's very fantastic, by the way.
00:31:09
Speaker
um but now it's not just conceiving like you said of these academic kind of divisions of you're studying philosophy now you're studying theology to these to the much more focused on where am i in the question of discerning christ's call in my life and so you say so recapping them you said probidutic then discipleship stage is that the next right and then what was the third stage It's called the configuration Configuration stage. so Yeah. So whereas that first one we're preparing to lead us to know whether or not seminary is for us, the discipleship stage is living in that relationship with Christ as his disciple to see whether or not he's calling us to be sent together.
00:31:55
Speaker
um And to be more closely aligned to him, um to dedicate ourselves as a celibate, as someone who is set apart to live like Christ.
00:32:08
Speaker
And then that that third stage, the configuration stage, centers around the question of how is God conforming me to look like him? Because as much as Father Jacob really does have a striking resemblance to Jesus Christ as he was, many of us are going to actually show forth different aspects of the life of God, right?
00:32:32
Speaker
And different aspects of the life of Christ. um And for each man, it's going to be a little bit different. And so the third stage, when we're learning about theology, when we're learning about Christ, we're asking the question, Christ, how are you calling me to be more deeply conformed and so that I can be a bridge to you for the sake of others?
00:32:59
Speaker
And then we get into a final stage, which is also, well, a difference. Because what happened to you guys when you got done with your theology studies? You guys were ordained.
00:33:11
Speaker
And sent to your first assignment. yep Yeah. However, today it's going to be a little bit different. There's actually a final stage called a vocational synthesis stage.
00:33:23
Speaker
And this happens after a man has ordained a deacon. Whereas, correct me if I'm wrong, because when I was ordained a deacon, I still had that last year or a little bit less than a year at seminary to kind of be like the senior but to be a deacon too, you know? Big man on campus.
00:33:44
Speaker
You were kind of the big man on campus, exactly. And then you were just sent back to the diocese, you were ordained, and then when you first go into a parish, you're a priest.
00:33:55
Speaker
yeah But today, what the PPF is asking um the bishops and asking all of the dioceses is to do is to allow men to have this time where just at the beginning, they kind of had a slow start, a time to have some space to really adjust into seminary.
00:34:17
Speaker
Now they want also at the end, a little bit of space, a little bit of time so that guys can be able to transition well into ministry. or transition out of seminary.
00:34:29
Speaker
And so when guys are ordained to the diaconate, rather than going back and being the big man on campus, they're actually sent out to begin to live that life that is now configured to Christ in ministry,
00:34:42
Speaker
In all of those small ways that some of us maybe just kind of skipped over because we went straight from being a seminarian in a parish on a in a summer to all of a sudden being a priest in a parish.
00:34:56
Speaker
I mean, i didn't even get to baptize anybody as a deacon. I didn't have that experience of, you know, going to the hospitals as a deacon. And there's so much that one can learn um as a future priest on what it's like to be a cleric, what it's like to be a deacon and to live in a community.
00:35:19
Speaker
um it's it's meant to be a ah synthesis of their vocation so as to give them that solid foundation so that when they're ordained a priest six months later, um that they're really equipped, capable, fully reflective, and ready to to pour their life out um for those that they have already began to serve and now desire to serve ah more fully as a priest.
00:35:45
Speaker
Propodudic? Discipleship, Configuration, Vocational Synthesis. That's right. all of the ah All of the words that are very difficult to spell. I spell Propodudic wrong just about every time i try to type it.
00:36:01
Speaker
And synthesis always gives me ah a kind of a roundabout way. I just thank God for autocorrect on ah on these text fields wherever I'm typing.
00:36:14
Speaker
Huh. So these, um yeah, this new ah system and understanding them as dimensions. um How are you, and you're doing this all alone,
Community Support in Seminary Work
00:36:26
Speaker
correct? It's just you versus 10 guys in the house, right?
00:36:30
Speaker
It is just me versus the world. No, of course not. The work of the work of seminary is always a work of a community. um And there are so many people surrounded by me. If you look On paper, you might think that there's very few people here at the seminary. Of course, I'm assigned here as the rector.
00:36:50
Speaker
um We do have another priest, Father Bob Gross, who's our spiritual formator and lead um spiritual director um for the men.
00:37:00
Speaker
Um, but on staff here, we also have a Mrs. Kelsey Kaiser who helps with the human and pastoral formation. She is a coordinator, especially for those guys in their early years, um, when they do a deep dive into what does it mean to be human and, um, uh,
00:37:17
Speaker
Also, how is it that I might be called to um to bring ah Christ ah to others, ah to be aware of the multi-dimensions of of pastoral ministry um so that they are able to discern well.
00:37:34
Speaker
um So the three of us... form um kind of like the staff here. But if we just stopped there, we would be missing so many others because there's members of our community, ah whether it's here at the local parish who will constantly be working with the men.
00:37:53
Speaker
um ah whether it's the different parishes that these guys are going out into for their pastoral experiences. um Because in addition to going to classes, they're also going into parishes.
00:38:06
Speaker
They're also going down to like the ah the free meal that the community here in Dubuque puts together down at St. Patrick's for the poor. um They also are singing in choirs.
00:38:20
Speaker
and have music directors and those that are teaching them how to chant and teaching them how to sing at mass. ah there's There's just so many. um They're instructors, they're professors, ah people at Loras, campus ministry at Loras, all the way down to you know the people who they're still connected to at home and their home parishes.
00:38:42
Speaker
are supporting them. um I suppose I should also mention Father Mark Murphy here in the Archdiocese, our our vocation director. And even though here at the seminary, we have actually five guys from Dubuque, we also have i then seven guys not from Dubuque,
00:39:01
Speaker
But we have four from Des Moines and three from Davenport. And those dioceses have their vocations directors, have their priests who are in charge of directing their seminarians. And they help out um in so many different ways ah to promote and to encourage them through their time in seminary.
00:39:20
Speaker
So I can't I can't take all the credit. I mean, the list goes on. I mean, even the Knights of Columbus help out in wonderful ways. um There's the local council of the Sarans who are very invested.
00:39:34
Speaker
um There are many schools. throughout the archdiocese that will write letters and encourage these guys. um We even got a box of candy um from the kind parishioners of Epiphany Parish up in Mason City.
00:39:47
Speaker
um And let me tell you, when you have 12 young men and a box of candy, um that box of candy didn't have much chance to survive past just a few hours. um They really appreciated that. So um The work of forming these men, even here at a small seminary with only 12 guys, um it takes it takes a lot of people to invest themselves and to give of themselves um to show these guys the full length and breadth and width of of the church um and who they will come to serve.
00:40:25
Speaker
Who feeds them. Well, that's, that's an interesting question. There's another name that I forgot. Um, so in one sense they feed themselves, they do go and buy groceries.
00:40:37
Speaker
They're in charge of the budget. They're in charge of knowing what to get. They have to get what's on the list. And so if they want something for lunch, um, they got to communicate with one another.
00:40:48
Speaker
Um, sometimes that's all part of formation, learning how to communicate just basic needs. Um, But they're only cooking for themselves on Monday and Thursday, as well as all of their different lunches and then on the weekends.
00:41:02
Speaker
um Breakfast, even though we're all down there together, um everyone's kind of making their own breakfast, whether it's cereal or eggs or toast. um There is a kind soul who will come in once a week to cook for us. Her name's Marlene, and she provides some wonderful home cooking. some ah It's one of the favorite nights for the guys um because it's kind of like our ah proverbial mother comes into the house, takes over it in the kitchen, and just fills the ah the whole Vienney house here ah with the aromas of gravy and, ah ah you know, meatloaf and
00:41:41
Speaker
Everything else that just kind of says um everything about home. But we also eat over at Loris. um The Propodudic guys tonight will actually be out at what's the other seminary here in the Archdiocese of Dubuque, the Divine Word Seminary.
00:41:57
Speaker
um Whereas we are a diocesan seminary, and so we're preparing men specifically for the diocesan priesthood or parish priesthood.
00:42:09
Speaker
ah The Divine Word Seminary out in Epworth is preparing men and women both for missionary work. And so the men there, ah some of them will just be brothers going off ah to to serve in various parts of the world ah to preach and proclaim the gospel. The sisters will do the same.
00:42:28
Speaker
And some of the men will then be ordained onto priests for the divine word um congregation. um And our guys will will go out there and ah they get to experience the global church.
00:42:43
Speaker
um And they're actually going to be eating out with them tonight, which they love because the food out there is also ah pretty good. Maybe not quite as good as Marlene's, but um close.
00:42:57
Speaker
And just speaking of divine word, I know we ah we, as the archdiocese, we experience much support for them besides them forming seminaries. We've had number of international priests who have studied at divine word.
00:43:08
Speaker
come from other countries, other dioceses to study English or study some other degrees, and then we'll serve in our diocese for a period before they return to their to their own diocese. so So we have a good ah good mutually beneficial relationship with ah Divine Word Seminary and Epworth.
00:43:24
Speaker
So just to plug in about that. Yeah, it's actually kind of funny. And my study is over in Rome. I would, from time to time, encounter a divine word missionary um going to class at one of the universities in Rome.
00:43:39
Speaker
And when they would hear that I was from the United States, um they were very eager to see if I knew where Epworth was. Do you know where Epworth is? And it just, I had to try to communicate to them,
00:43:53
Speaker
how lucky they were to be talking to me because of all of the Americans. um I do know where Epworth is, um but that's not something that most Americans would know where they're that's at. In fact, there's a lot of yeah there's a there's a lot of people from Iowa that wouldn't know where Epworth is.
00:44:12
Speaker
And yet for the divine word missionaries, when they hear of America, they think of their seminary in America, which happens to be in Epworth. So they, uh, they, they speak of Epworth as this, as if it's like, you know, New York, Los Angeles, Denver and Epworth.
00:44:32
Speaker
Beautiful. Um, you talked to and gave a pretty detailed, um, smattering of what a seminarian is going to do during this academic school year from various meals to schoolwork to community.
Practical Ministry Experience for Seminarians
00:44:47
Speaker
What do they do during the summers? Yeah, so i I suppose it depends a little bit. our That first year, that propedeutic year, is really meant to be a year. It's meant to be 12 months. And so their summer is somewhat organized by the seminary itself.
00:45:04
Speaker
um And so ah we have them as part of their pastoral experience of getting to know the diocese, traveling about from different parish to different parish, um coming to understand what it means to to live as someone who is sent by Christ.
00:45:19
Speaker
um ah We have them participate in the totus tuus that we have here in the Archdiocese of Dubuque that sends college-age ah kids um as catechists into parishes to lead catechesis for children of all ages all the way up into high school.
00:45:41
Speaker
um And so that's what they do through their summer um of that first year. But after that, and um they're kind of let loose of the seminary, and um their are particular diocese will be responsible for making sure that they then experience other aspects of ministry in a more tangible way.
00:46:02
Speaker
which can take on many different forms. Sometimes they will spend a summer in a parish, live with priests, get to know what it's like to be a parish priest and the different functions and different activities and events that ah um occur in a parish, which is important because sometimes guys grow up only knowing the one parish that they've always known.
00:46:24
Speaker
And it's good for them to get an experience of maybe a different one. But it could also be an experience of a hospital, going and being a hospital chaplain, um or even following and or job shadowing a chaplain for a time and getting to know what it's like to minister to those who are are sick and ill and um and who are in nursing homes, etc.
00:46:49
Speaker
Sometimes there's other programs for them to go into a deep dive of priestly identity and um they might do something like that. um Or they might do like a Spanish immersion where they travel um and they try to learn Spanish um while being surrounded.
00:47:08
Speaker
But all of those experiences are are meant to, i yeah, just give a ah more tangible experiences of the things that um perhaps they wouldn't be able to do while they're taking classes.
00:47:21
Speaker
um But the summertime will give them the availability and the freedom to to do those things. Has it ever happened that a seminarian would either decide or discern that, I i think I'm going step away from seminary.
00:47:37
Speaker
and not complete formation, and then maybe spend some time in the outside world or or maybe in a religious order and then come back to it. is Has that ever happened before?
00:47:48
Speaker
um That hasn't happened on a day when Marlene cooks. okay But no, of course that happens. um And that's actually a very normal aspect of of seminary work, of seminary life.
00:48:03
Speaker
um Guys discern in guys discern out. um Guys will i maybe not be ready at a particular time um to really address ah the questions or they might not yet be captivated um to to give themselves completely.
00:48:25
Speaker
um And yet just because that might be the season that they're in doesn't necessarily mean that, you know, things aren't going well or um things are off. um Just like a dating relationship.
00:48:37
Speaker
um Sometimes guys will ah come in and this will only confirm to them, oh No, the Lord is calling me to the married life. Man, um you know, I respect what priests do.
00:48:50
Speaker
I love prayer. I love Christ, but it just seems like Christ is actually calling me not to this. um And that's great. I mean, praise God that... that they were willing to give of themselves um to this question um to contemplate what Christ might be calling them to.
00:49:09
Speaker
And they got an answer, you know? um ay You know, obviously oh we don't, we're not rooting for guys to come here and then to leave. um But we are rooting for guys to come here and to grow closer to Christ.
00:49:24
Speaker
And if them growing closer to Christ means for them to leave here, We're okay with that. Our mission isn't just to make priests. It's for us to be able to form men after the heart of Christ to be priests.
00:49:42
Speaker
um So it's the forming men in the life of Christ that is really what we're about. um if all we had to do is make priests, I mean, the archbishop could just set up a line and he could just ordain one guy after another.
00:49:55
Speaker
But obviously we don't want to do that either. We actually want men who resemble the life of of Christ. And so that's what we try to do in the seminary is form men after that heart.
00:50:08
Speaker
And if that means that they're called to marriage, well, then we are happy for them to go out and get married and to be productive in the church as a layman. I remember when I was discerning joining seminary, that was one thing they talked about is you go to seminary to discern more fully and you, you know, and then you go and it's to learn how to listen to God's call to cultivate a prayer life, to, to be a man after his own heart more fully.
00:50:38
Speaker
And, and like you said, Father Jeff, that, that would lead some men to, in discerning Christ's call that would lead them into marriage. And many of them, you know, I remember in my time in seminary, there were guys who left, and many of them are are still ah serving the church in various capacities, you know, that have become, you know, working in staff um in parishes and and are still helping serve the Lord in other beautiful ways as lay people and married mothers, you know, husbands and and fathers, you know, you know with their their spouses and so on.
00:51:11
Speaker
or some have gone into secular work, but I know one friend I was in seminary with who discerned out, but um but with you know seminary helped deepen his own faith that now he works in a secular workplace, but I know he walks around with his a coffee cup on his breaks and just strikes up conversations with his co-workers, and and very frequently they turn to conversation about those deeper questions about God, and and they know he practices his faith, so what does that mean? And And his formation in seminary has actually helped you equip him to be more ready to engage people in that. So it's beautiful thing that even if we serve men who don't go on to be, or form men who don't go on to be ordained priests, that that very often they are still formed to more deeply follow the call of the Lord and serve him.
00:51:56
Speaker
um I will also add, I think Father Jacob's question was a bit of a fishing question for me. I myself am a product of one who discerned out of seminary, ah Some of our listeners may or may not know this, but I was in seminary.
00:52:09
Speaker
I did my two years of philosophy and a year of theology. And then I discerned out. I felt I was at a point I had to step away to explore some other things, particularly looking to the possibility of religious life and joined a group of Franciscans.
00:52:25
Speaker
So shout out to the Franciscans of the Eucharist of Chicago in the Archdiocese of of Chicago at the Mission of Our Lady the Angels. um But then through that journey, was able to continue to pray and listen to God's call. And but he was calling me back. And then I returned to seminary and they took me back. And then they finished forming me and and then ordained me, but they didn't really finish forming me because, course, ah formation is ongoing.
00:52:49
Speaker
As priests, we talk about ongoing formation. So always being formed, but part of seminary is equipping us with the tools to know how to continue to be open to the Lord's formation in our life. Yeah, I asked that question. You're right, it was fishing. And yeah um I despise the phrase that's used, like if a guy discerns out of seminary or leaves formation, it can be said that, oh, he quit or he dropped out.
00:53:15
Speaker
um i I don't want to say, I mean, if if a couple, if a young boyfriend and girlfriend break up, did you did you quit? I don't know. You probably... discern that it wasn't right for you and and to echo your it ah we're all the better for it um because until the time of marriage or ordination it's all uh still seeking and until that time that the commitment is made you want to make sure everything's in place as much as you can so that's what i think yeah So this maybe brings us to kind of one of our final questions as we're coming to the end here.
Supporting and Encouraging Seminarians
00:53:50
Speaker
But ah some may or may not know, but this week that this podcast is aired is National Vocations Awareness Week.
00:53:57
Speaker
You'll learn about that at the United States Council of Catholic Bishops website, USCCB. But this week is a National Vocations Awareness Week, celebrated this week as an annual week-long celebration of the Catholic Church of the United States dedicated to promoting vocations of the priesthood,
00:54:11
Speaker
Deacadent and consecrated life through prayer and education and to renew our prayers and support for those who are considering one of those particular vocations. So I want to ask the question um of how do we support ah seminarians, particularly those who are in seminary now, but also how do we um invite, support, encourage, foster young men to discern a possibility of a call to priesthood,
00:54:38
Speaker
um And I say this also knowing that we're in this journey in faith process in our archdiocese, and one of the surveys we did showed that a lot of people have never invited a young man to think about priesthood. I think over 80% answered that question for never had invited a young man to think about priesthood. So maybe to kind of close out here, just how can we pray for and support our seminarians, but also how can we maybe foster, encourage other young men to consider the possibility of vocation to the priesthood.
00:55:11
Speaker
Yeah, and that's a good question. And indeed, Certainly, i mean, there's like those there hard ways of being able to ah support the seminary. So, you know, it does take resources. It takes, you know, the finances to to be able to have a house like this and to support them and to send them to education.
00:55:33
Speaker
And so you can always give ah monetarily ah to the Archdiocese of Dubuque in support of its seminarians. and its seminary ah to make sure that that has a happy and um long-term future.
00:55:47
Speaker
um There's also the prayers that you can say each and every day. Prayer does matter. um You could send cards. Guys here love to hear from parishes and from people, and an encouraging word um can really sometimes mean a lot to these guys.
00:56:05
Speaker
um But then there's also just kind of maybe... and even perhaps more important. um So to call this like a soft way of support might call it something, or it it might sound like it's not important, but it is.
00:56:22
Speaker
um Whatever you can do to make discerning a call to the priesthood not weird, right? When someone says, hey, I'm thinking about I'm thinking about the priesthood.
00:56:34
Speaker
It's like, what? Really? The priesthood? Why? you know, and sometimes we can react and we can establish an environment where discerning a call to the priesthood or going over to the seminary or even being a seminarian is kind of like this weird thing.
00:56:53
Speaker
And yet, really, it's not that weird. It's just Desiring to follow the call of Christ in your life. Isn't that something that should be normal? Isn't that something that everyone should be wanting to do?
00:57:06
Speaker
And that a young man would actually be thinking about becoming a priest um ah should be encouraged and supported um just by virtue of us ah seeing and experiencing that as a good thing, as a normal thing. you know When a third grader says, I really like to serve mass, you know if our reaction is what serve mass, why not just go play football?
00:57:30
Speaker
Just be a normal boy and go like to play football. You know, we're setting ourselves up for a kind of ay ah disaster, ah so to speak, because um we're making something that should be a good thing and perceived as a good thing into something that it's not.
00:57:47
Speaker
ah So I think, yeah, fostering the sense that seminary is on the table. It is an option. It is something that is normal for a young Catholic man ah to have a period in his life to actually think about it.
00:58:04
Speaker
In fact, I would say if we are a young Catholic man, we should think about it. We should think about the priesthood. We should think about married life. We should think about consecrated life.
00:58:14
Speaker
And until we can see and experience each of those vocations as a good thing, we really haven't given them their you know their full opportunity to convict our heart.
00:58:27
Speaker
And if we recognize those things all as good things, We will only be better in whichever one we're called to um for that because we'll actually see it how it um is a interacts with one another and see how it is in light of the whole ah plan that God has for us. So um I think that's the big thing.
00:58:50
Speaker
you know Make it a normal thing for guys to consider the seminary and the priesthood. And even just know that we have a seminary A lot of people don't know that we have a seminary at Loras College called St. Pius X. Sometimes they just think that guys just go off somewhere else and become a priest, and then they come back, and they're older and wiser, and they look more tired. But no, we have seminarians right here in Dubuque.
00:59:18
Speaker
um they're sent out into our parishes each and every summer. um This is a normal part of the life of the church. um So ah let's make sure that it's even more prevalent moving forward.
00:59:32
Speaker
And I do like to remind people, I often remind my parishes that, you know, priests don't just fall from heaven. You know, they are grown up from the parishes. So to your point, well, you said Father Jeff Dole is, I think, encouraging every young man to at least,
00:59:49
Speaker
give a serious consideration to the possibility that God may be calling you, you know, to, to the priesthood. And, um, and so that's at least worth giving consideration to. And, uh, hopefully listeners to this podcast are encouraged to appreciate that also priests, like they receive, uh, in seminary, it's a very thorough and holistic formation, um,
01:00:14
Speaker
that uh that i think really sets them up to live well in life in general but particularly in serving the lord um so i hope one takeaway for our listeners is to appreciate that that you know it's not just we're just not just cranking them through the machine to you know to send them through all their classes so they get the stuff in their head to know the right stuff but we're really doing this holistic formation of of the mind and the heart to help men yeah respond with the fullness of who they are to Christ, to listen to him, to follow him, to serve him, and through their whole being, their whole humanity, their whole personality, everything that they are, to be a a vessel, to be a channel of
01:00:55
Speaker
Christ of who he is, his goodness, his grace, and a bridge to link people to draw people to Christ. So it's a beautiful thing. It's a beautiful call. And yeah.
01:01:08
Speaker
Thank you, Father Jeff Dole for doing your part and helping form the future priests of America and the Archdiocese. Well, thank you for having me on and thank you for you guys doing your part, ah building up the church here in the archdiocese and being a good example of priestut priestly living for so many. So thank you.
01:01:32
Speaker
Thank you. Father Kevin, I do have to correct you, though. You said that priests don't just fall from heaven, and that is true. However, they do come from Wisconsin, which I think is pretty close.
01:01:42
Speaker
That's where I'm from, yeah. All right, everyone listening, thank you so much. I hope you learned about dimensions and propedeutic years. And ah look up... how to support a local seminarian through the Archdiocese or through the Knights of Columbus or the Sarin Club or send them a box of candy.
01:02:00
Speaker
Can't go wrong there. Thank you, everyone. We'll see you the Eucharist.