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2: What Is Evangelization?
43 Plays12 days ago
https://dbqarch.org/adult-evangelization-and-formation-initiative
m.selby@dbqarch.org
ENCOUNTER - ACCOMPANIMENT - COMMUNITY - MISSION
Prayer For The New Evangelization:
Heavenly Father, pour forth your Holy Spirit to inspire me with these words from Holy Scripture. Stir in my soul the desire to renew my faith and deepen my relationship with your Son, our Lord Jesus Christ so that I might truly believe in and live the Good News. Open my heart to hear the Gospel and grant me the confidence to proclaim the Good News to others. Pour out your Spirit, so that I might be strengthened to go forth and witness to the Gospel in my everyday life through my words and actions. In moments of hesitation, remind me: • If not me, then who will proclaim the Gospel? • If not now, then when will the Gospel be proclaimed? • If not the truth of the Gospel, then what shall I proclaim? God, our Father, I pray that through the Holy Spirit I might hear the call of the New Evangelization to deepen my faith, grow in confidence to proclaim the Gospel and boldly witness to the saving grace of your Son, Jesus Christ, who lives and reigns with you in the unity of the Holy Spirit, God, for ever and ever. Amen
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:03
Fr. Kevin
right
00:00:14
Jacob Rouse
Hello everyone. My name is Father Jacob Rouse and I am the pastor of Notre Dame parish in Cresco, Iowa.
00:00:21
Fr. Kevin
And I'm Father Kevin Earlywine, Pastor of St. Patrick's Hampton and St. Mary's in Ackley.
00:00:27
Jacob Rouse
Welcome to the Dubucharistic revival podcast.
00:00:30
Fr. Kevin
Because that's the name we're going with.
Mission Recap and Archdiocese Priorities
00:00:32
Jacob Rouse
Uh, we are, um, In Technically Episode 2, last time we talked about what is the mission of Journey in Faith and what is our overall mission as Catholic Christians. And ah Father Kevin, can I have you recap the last episode just briefly?
00:00:49
Fr. Kevin
Yeah, so we spoke about last time ah our mission statement and vision statement. And we talked about mission, about who we are as an archdiocese and the vision of where we're going.
00:01:02
Fr. Kevin
And so where we're going, our vision is we want to become engaged archdiocese community of joyful missionary disciples centered on the Eucharistic relationship with Jesus Christ and united in our legacy of faith.
00:01:15
Fr. Kevin
So we talked about our values to help us get us there of ah prayer, worship, works of charity, um and lifelong formation.
Guest Introduction: Matt Selby
00:01:24
Fr. Kevin
So this led us to the three priorities of ah pastoral planning, leadership formation, and evangelization.
00:01:34
Fr. Kevin
And so we will talk more about pastoral planning in a future episode. But today um we want to focus on that that priority of evangelization, um and one of those three named priorities.
00:01:47
Fr. Kevin
And so here to talk with us more about ah evangelization is Matt Selby.
Framework for Evangelization
00:01:53
Fr. Kevin
So Matt Selby, welcome to the Dubuque Catholic Revival podcast. Again, you were featured on season one. So thank you for coming back to our new season, season two. So if you would just introduce yourself and who you are,
00:02:06
Matt Selby
Thanks for having me. Good to be back. My name is Matt Selby. I am the Director of Adult and Marriage Formation for the Archdiocese of Dubuque, and that's part of the evangelization and discipleship team here. So ah talking about evangelization, big part of my work and looking forward to unpacking that further. also on the home front, my wife and I have five boys and we are expecting our sixth child in December. and We just found out we're having a girl. So ah going to be new territory for us.
00:02:36
Fr. Kevin
Ooh.
00:02:38
Jacob Rouse
Wow.
00:02:38
Fr. Kevin
Congratulations.
00:02:39
Jacob Rouse
Congratulations. that's That's a big deal. um As ah I'm sure you are yourself a joyful disciple and you're raising a house of joyful disciples, we wanted to have you as a joyful disciple come on and share with us what evangelization is. And um according to the ah big, beautiful book that's in front of me, um we have an actual framework for adult evangelization and formation. And that is something that you either wrote yourself or ah had a team of people help you write. And um so that's ah something that's out there. And I'd like to help us better understand how to evangelize and what this framework is.
00:03:22
Matt Selby
Yeah, so just a little background on that. ah we We put together a task group that I spearheaded a few years ago to work on especially adult evangelization and adult engagement. How can we form adults in particular as missionary disciples?
00:03:39
Matt Selby
How can we help parishes do that? And so this task group of leaders from throughout the archdiocese worked with me and we decided we need some common
Core Gospel Message and Kerygma
00:03:48
Matt Selby
language. We need ah common language.
00:03:50
Matt Selby
point of reference, a common vision for evangelization in the archdiocese. And so we took, of course, the the church's vision, and there's been a lot, especially in the last 50 years of documents written on evangelization. It's been a lot of talk about missionary discipleship, and we try to synthesize that and articulate a clear vision with some common language to give the key principles for people to use, for pastoral leaders in the archdiocese in particular to use, to then formulate strategies and to put some intentional effort into evangelization. So that we're kind of on the same page and we're we're tracking just like
00:04:28
Matt Selby
the know, the, our staff submission vision priorities, you know, we need to be tracking on the same page and know what our goals are at, where we're going and how we go about that. And so this, uh, framework, and we released it in early 2024 and, um, know, we've been kind of getting the word out and doing trainings and doing information sessions and talking about it and i know parish leaders have been talking about it.
00:04:54
Matt Selby
And now it's kind of a nice opportunity to build upon that and to talk about um specific action steps based on those principles.
00:05:04
Fr. Kevin
hu
00:05:07
Fr. Kevin
It's exciting. So ah thank you for your work in putting this together. um i know i mentioned in the last podcast, I was on the envisioning committee where we articulated the priorities. And I know as we talked about evangelization,
Roles and Responsibilities in Evangelization
00:05:21
Fr. Kevin
this document, this framework for adult evangelization and formation was explicitly referenced as sort of a good that we already have kind of a good foundation to build upon as we're kind of moving in this priority and making more practical plans and strategies of how to do that moving into the future.
00:05:39
Fr. Kevin
So to unpack, I guess, you you know, what is evangelization? That's essentially what this kind of document does is giving an overview. So maybe the simplest thing is is just can you walk us through this sort of this framework matt and kind of there's i know I guess I'll say I know there's kind of five basic chapters. What is the gospel?
00:06:00
Fr. Kevin
What is evangelization? Who evangelizes? How to evangelize? And the process of evangelization. So maybe you could kind of walk us through each of those, and we'll, yeah, go from there.
00:06:12
Matt Selby
Sure thing. So we started out with what is the gospel? Because basically, we're talking about evangelization. We'll get into like what that means and what it doesn't mean. And it's one of those big terms that we throw around and some people get scared off by it and some people get excited about it.
00:06:27
Matt Selby
And so, you know, we have to understand what that is. But first, we have to understand kind of the why behind it and what what is the message of evangelization? what What are we sharing in evangelization? So we started this out by just rearticulating
00:06:37
Fr. Kevin
Okay. Mm-hmm.
00:06:41
Matt Selby
the gospel, the fancy term for that, the kerygma, the Greek word that we use in the Catholic Church, which just means to proclaim. And so the proclamation of the gospel is at the heart of evangelization.
00:06:55
Matt Selby
And that is the core message. Of course, you know we have a lot of teachings, we have a lot of practices, a lot of rituals in the Catholic Church. What's at the heart of all of it? Why do we teach all these things? Why do we believe all these things? Why do we do all these things as Catholic Christians?
00:07:11
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm.
00:07:11
Matt Selby
It all goes back to that gospel message.
00:07:12
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm.
00:07:14
Matt Selby
There's different ways to articulate it. We chose um a four-word articulation from Father John Ricardo that is simply created, captured, rescued response.
00:07:27
Matt Selby
And just to unpack that a little bit. Created refers to, of course, that we were created by God in the image and likeness of God. We're created out of love.
00:07:38
Matt Selby
We're created for love. ah We're created to be in this union with God and union with the rest of creation, but including the rest of humanity.
00:07:50
Matt Selby
But we all
Role of the Holy Spirit and Continuous Evangelization
00:07:51
Matt Selby
know the story. It didn't take long. Genesis, skip ahead to Genesis 3. Genesis 1 and 2, that's created. Genesis 3, now we have the fall, and we're captured, captured by sin because um we as humanity...
00:08:02
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm.
00:08:06
Matt Selby
represented by Adam and Eve, turned our backs on God and and said, and and we're going to use this free will thing that you gave us, and we're going to rebel and do things our way. And of course, that's been the story of human history, um this brokenness, this woundedness.
00:08:21
Matt Selby
um So rather than union with God and union with other human beings and union with creation, now we have this wounded broken relationship with God and with others and with creation.
00:08:34
Matt Selby
um But of course, that's not the end of the story.
00:08:34
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm.
00:08:36
Matt Selby
um We get to the New Testament in particular, and we hear how God um he has been, of course, working up to his full rescue plan throughout the Old Testament. But with the coming of Jesus, we have the fullness of that rescue plan where God became incarnate to save us from that broken, wounded state.
00:08:56
Matt Selby
to restore those relationships and to give us new life in him. So to bring us back to that union with God and that union with each other and with creation. We also know though that that wasn't like, um you know, the death and resurrection of Jesus while it's the redeeming event.
00:09:13
Matt Selby
um It's not like everything was automatically fixed. And now, you know, of course the world is perfect now. We're still in a broken world. And that's a, That's the church's history. That's the church's role to continue out the saving mission of Jesus and to invite us into that.
00:09:29
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm.
00:09:31
Matt Selby
So that's that response part. And Father Ricardo talks about two responses, the personal response of, you know we each have the invitation to say yes to that rescue plan or to say no to it.
00:09:44
Matt Selby
So we're invited into it We're invited to say, yes, I want to be rescued. want to be saved. I want to be restored. in that relationship with God. And that's a lifelong process then of, of being sanctified. and But we can also say no.
00:09:58
Matt Selby
um But
Building Relationships and Parish Responsibilities
00:09:59
Matt Selby
also if we say yes, it's not like, okay, that's just yes for me. We have this mission response too. That really gets into evangelization is where we're called to not just respond personally, but to invite others to respond to that and invite others into that rescue plan.
00:10:17
Matt Selby
So that's that's the kerygma, that's the gospel um in a nutshell, and that's the message that we have to share, um that we want to have at the core of evangelization.
00:10:29
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm.
00:10:30
Jacob Rouse
I just want to, we have the nutshell now. I just want to ah drizzle some ah delicious commentary on that real quick. um I heard recently in a um ah Father Mike Schmitz podcast, or he was talking or preaching about what sin actually is. And of course, the church has a definition of sin is anything against the will of God. But the way he phrased it was, God, I know you love me and I see what's good for me and what you want for me.
00:10:55
Jacob Rouse
And I don't care. or I'm choosing not that. And um so when we go back to Genesis and look at the the the serpent, the enemy tempting Eve and essentially humanity with the delicious worldly fruits, um basically we're whenever we sin and we are captured by our own will.
00:11:16
Jacob Rouse
And um that's what Jesus saves us from. And that's the kerygma as I feel evangelized myself, Matt. Thank you. That it was very good. um Who does this, though?
00:11:28
Jacob Rouse
Obviously, we're we're sent out on a personal yes and then a mission yes. But who are the people who evangelize?
00:11:34
Fr. Kevin
Well, I think you're getting ahead of us, Father Jacob. First, we want to unpack, I think, a little more what is evangelization.
00:11:37
Jacob Rouse
Oh, I'm sorry.
00:11:40
Fr. Kevin
i mean, Matt started touching on it, but you want to say a little more first before we talk about who evangelizes? ah What is evangelization? I know essentially evangelization is a proclamation of this message, but maybe we should say a little bit more about what evangelization is and maybe what evangelization is not before we get into who evangelizes and how to evangelize.
00:12:01
Matt Selby
Sure thing.
Evangelization Strategy and Process
00:12:03
Matt Selby
That's a big question. You know I said before, it's a term that we throw around and it scares some people and other people get excited about it.
00:12:09
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm.
00:12:11
Matt Selby
And I think a lot of people have different connotations about evangelization just because of the society that we live in. So some people hear evangelization and they think televangelist.
00:12:18
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm.
00:12:22
Matt Selby
You know, that's those guys on the TV that a little bit wacky. um maybe trying to get you to give them money, or they think of um you know the Mormons or the Jehovah Witnesses who go door to door and like, you know, oh I see them come in and I want to lock my doors and turn off my lights and hide.
00:12:35
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm.
00:12:39
Matt Selby
And ah I don't want to do that as a Catholic.
00:12:41
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm.
00:12:42
Matt Selby
I don't want to have to go door to door and talk to random strangers about my faith. um So people have different perceptions or the you know the street corner preacher, things like that. and And not that those can't be good methods of evangelization.
00:12:58
Matt Selby
um i know people who have done very effective Catholic door-to-door evangelization or street ministry.
00:13:04
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm.
00:13:06
Matt Selby
You know, of course, we want to use media to share the gospel.
00:13:09
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm.
00:13:09
Matt Selby
So those those are things that maybe have been ah misused by others.
00:13:14
Fr. Kevin
mm-hmm mm-hmm mm-hmm
00:13:15
Matt Selby
And so we we kind of have a negative connotation about some of those things, and that can give some people a negative connotation about evangelization. I think there's a tendency maybe in our Catholic culture to treat faith as a little bit more of a private matter.
00:13:30
Fr. Kevin
who
00:13:30
Matt Selby
rather than something I'm public about, rather than something i talk about regularly. It's like, no, that's just between me and God, or that's just what I do on Sunday mornings. But really, it's a way of life. Evangelization is a way of life. So we emphasize that that evangelization is not just like a church program.
00:13:46
Matt Selby
It's like we have this evangelization ministry over here, and we have all of our other ministries over here, or we do our evangelization program.
00:13:51
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm.
00:13:52
Matt Selby
And i'm going to you know I'm going to be part of that, but someone else is going be a part of some other parish program. So we don't want to think of it a program or just something we do. It's really a way of life that we're all called to as Christians.
00:14:08
Matt Selby
And it's about proclaiming Christ, proclaiming the gospel that we just talked about by word and testimony of life. And that's what the catechism says is the basic definition of evangelization, quoting Lumen Gentium from Vatican two It's um the proclamation of the gospel by word and by testimony of life. So we we need to witness to it by the way we live.
00:14:33
Matt Selby
But it's not just like by example and never have to say anything. It's also by proclamation, by saying, know, this is what I believe, this is why I believe it, this is an invitation for you to believe this too, for you to receive this rescue plan, receive the salvation, and enter into life in Christ.
00:14:37
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm.
00:14:54
Matt Selby
And so... um So that that's important. And then it is at the heart of everything we do as a church. A quote that I love and have used many times is, Pope St. Paul VI, so he wrote an encyclical on evangelization called Evangelii Nunziandi, and he says very simply in there, the church exists in order to evangelize.
00:15:15
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm.
00:15:15
Matt Selby
That's why we have a church. um And sometimes we've even, in talking about this, we've replaced that with your parish exists in order to evangelize.
00:15:17
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm.
00:15:24
Matt Selby
Why why do you have why do we have parishes in the first place?
00:15:24
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm.
00:15:28
Matt Selby
To evangelize that
Mentorship, Community, and Mission
00:15:30
Matt Selby
geographical territory. Like that is your parish's mission field is to reach the people within your parish boundaries. um And so that's why the parish exists.
00:15:41
Matt Selby
That's why anything we do as a parish should happen um is in order to basically implement that rescue plan in the local territory.
00:15:50
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:15:53
Matt Selby
So that's why we, that's why Jesus founded the church. That's why we have the church to this day is in order to evangelize, and that's to proclaim the message of the gospel through words and a witness of our life.
00:16:05
Fr. Kevin
who
00:16:10
Fr. Kevin
Using words in Witness to Life, I'm reminded of that quote that's often attributed to St. Francis of Assisi, to proclaim the gospel at all times and when necessary use words, ah which I think when rightly understood is a beautiful quote.
00:16:24
Fr. Kevin
um But sometimes I think we can sometimes as Catholics have a tendency to use that to as an excuse not to use words, ah that it's like, well, if I'm just, if I just show the example of my life, I don't ever have to say anything.
00:16:39
Fr. Kevin
But I think we live in an age when it is, in fact, necessary to use words to proclaim the gospel. And I think to the point that's being said, I think that's exactly what we're trying to equip people to do in this priority evangelization.
00:16:53
Fr. Kevin
As we talked about in our in our last episode, and you alluded to this, Matt, was a Yeah, I think in for Catholics, we have really strong faith, especially here in the archdiocese.
00:17:04
Fr. Kevin
um We did that big survey that showed that, but showed that kind of part of our growing area is maybe learning how precisely to evangelize, to share the work, the Christ with our words, to share the story um of what he's done in my life, to share the story of Christ ah with our words, to invite people to know Jesus Christ.
00:17:24
Fr. Kevin
And so it's, and and that's, ah To me, that's at the heart of this whole journey in faith initiative that we're doing, right? That we're doing this journey of faith. And yes, it includes a restructuring of things, but I think To really understand what this is all about is we have to understand, truly, I believe, mission and evangelization is at the heart of this whole thing. And as you said, it's at the heart of the whole thing of being church and that maybe we've lost a little bit of that core identity.
00:17:51
Fr. Kevin
And that's what we're reclaiming. And that's what we're trying to move forward with is this paradigm shift from from managed decline to mission and to equip people.
00:18:02
Fr. Kevin
the faithful, you know, and that, that we'll get into this in who evangelizes next, but, um but it flows into that. It's not just for the priests or the nuns to do this, to use their words.
00:18:14
Matt Selby
Yeah, absolutely.
00:18:14
Fr. Kevin
It's the everyday person in the pew is called to evangelize. So, so we'll be getting into that in a second, but
Guiding Evangelization Efforts and Resources
00:18:22
Fr. Kevin
yeah. So, so a lot of what, what you said
00:18:24
Matt Selby
Yeah, I just want to say one thing and then we can talk about who evangelizes. It's like I've heard the analogy and it's kind of stark. um It strikes you because it's it's like if you had the cure to cancer.
00:18:39
Matt Selby
But you're like, and I'm just going keep that to myself.
00:18:42
Fr. Kevin
Yeah.
00:18:43
Matt Selby
You know, it's just a private matter.
00:18:43
Fr. Kevin
Yeah.
00:18:45
Matt Selby
That's just just personal. Like, oh, great. You know, I'm i'm cured from cancer. But, you know, as someone has said, like, how much do you have to hate other people to keep that to yourself?
00:18:56
Matt Selby
um
00:18:56
Fr. Kevin
Yeah. yeah
00:18:57
Matt Selby
Because if you have something like that, you want to share it with everyone. You want everyone to have that cure to cancer. You want everyone who is suffering from cancer to be able to be healed.
00:19:08
Matt Selby
And we have the cure to the cancer of sin.
00:19:12
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:19:13
Matt Selby
in the church.
00:19:15
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm.
00:19:15
Matt Selby
And so we're called to share that. It's not just something like, oh, good for me. Like, I've i've got that salvation. I've got that. I've got the sacraments. I have ah the grace of God in my life. We want everyone to experience the grace of God. We want everyone to experience that rescue plan and to find the healing that we all need and that ultimately is available through Jesus.
00:19:38
Matt Selby
And so like talking about who evangelizes then, ah the the first thing, there's there's two things we emphasize in this section. um And maybe I'll start with the second one because we're kind of talking about it. Who evangelizes?
00:19:52
Matt Selby
Every baptized Christian is responsible.
00:19:55
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:19:56
Matt Selby
So like Father Kevin says, it's not just priests, it's not just nuns, it's not just people like me who work for the church, it's not just your faith formation leader at your parish. every baptized Christian is called to evangelize. Pope Francis had really emphasized missionary discipleship and that if you're baptized, you're not just a disciple, but you're a missionary.
00:20:18
Matt Selby
ah To be a disciple, to be a follower of Jesus is to also be a witness to Jesus in the world.
00:20:18
Fr. Kevin
can
00:20:24
Matt Selby
And so we all have that responsibility and we all need to um take the responsibility, but also we all need formation. We
Final Thoughts and Encouragement
00:20:34
Matt Selby
all need to be equipped.
00:20:35
Matt Selby
um Pope Francis also said that, know, it doesn't take a lot to be qualified to evangelize. Really, if you're baptized, you're qualified. um
00:20:44
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:20:44
Matt Selby
But he says like the primary qualification is you've experienced the love of God. Because if you've experienced it, then you can share it. A key principle we emphasize throughout this framework is you can't give what you don't have.
00:21:00
Matt Selby
So if you've experienced this, then you have what you need to give it away, to share it with others. Now, sure, like formation of the faith helps a lot. um Continue to grow in your own discipleship helps a lot. you know Being a more mature Christian, a well-formed Christian is very helpful in being an effective evangelist.
00:21:22
Matt Selby
um But You don't have to feel like, oh, I need a theology degree in order to share my faith with others. Or like, oh, I can't do that. Like, you know, again, like father can do that.
00:21:33
Matt Selby
Or my faith formation leader who's a professional in the church can do that. But I can't do that. Well, no, if you if you're baptized and you've experienced the love of God. You can you can evangelize.
00:21:46
Matt Selby
Share what you've experienced.
00:21:46
Fr. Kevin
And maybe this would be helpful to define a couple terms, because I think they sometimes get confused of evangelization, catechesis and say apologetics, right?
00:22:00
Fr. Kevin
So apologetics, i think I think sometimes people hear that they're called to evangelize, and they think, I'm not equipped for that, because they're thinking apologetics. Apologetics is the word we use as Christians. It doesn't mean to apologize for our faith. It actually means to defend one's faith, you know, so when someone ah to to present a, um I don't have a handy definition offhand, but essentially to prevent present a defense of our faith. Why do we believe what we believe to someone who doesn't believe or is actively, you know, maybe attacking us verbally or or whatever? And and so ah and so to to, you know, do debates publicly or to to present the faith in kind of a very public form is more the work of apologetics.
00:22:42
Fr. Kevin
And I think when some people hear evangelize, they think apologetics um And the other word I mentioned is catechesis, and catechesis is more the the teachings of the faith within people who are already baptized believers, right? but um So feel free to clarify those a little further, but I just wanted to present, you know, maybe maybe how do we define evangelization as opposed to <unk>log is not apologetics and catechesis?
00:23:10
Matt Selby
Yeah, yeah, that's a great point. And I would look at it as evangelization is like the umbrella. it's It's the mission of the church. You know, it's Jesus' great commission, go forth and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, teaching them.
00:23:18
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:23:27
Matt Selby
Okay, there's catechesis. Yeah. and And so there's different aspects. So like catechesis is like a subset of evangelization and apologetics is like a subset. But like you're saying, you don't have to be an expert, like apologist to be an evangelist.
00:23:42
Matt Selby
um And so, you know, we need to teach people the faith. We need to catechize them. But we also have to keep in mind that evangelization has to come first. And this is oftentimes where, you know, things can be a little backwards sometimes in more so our modern day.
00:24:01
Matt Selby
Maybe you guys have heard the the terminology of from Christendom to apostolic age.
00:24:06
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:24:07
Matt Selby
So we have to operate differently as a church in an era of Christendom, which we have been in um maybe up until recent decades in the United States, where our culture was a little bit more imbued with Christian values.
00:24:21
Matt Selby
Or you think about it, like Europe in in past centuries, you know, is so Christian, is Christendom. Or, um yeah, go back go back just a few hundred years, especially, and you see that in particular. But in recent decades, we've shifted more in our culture to apostolic times where...
00:24:41
Matt Selby
know, the Christian faith is a little bit more of a minority or at least Christian values are more of the minority. We're much more in a secular culture. um it's And so we need to shift more to mission mode.
00:24:53
Matt Selby
And so I say that because sometimes we still operate in that Christendom mindset where we almost assume people have been evangelized and then we just catechize them.
00:25:01
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm.
00:25:02
Matt Selby
So let's let's just. yeah We kind of assume families are doing their part to practice the faith at home and you know share the faith and witness to the faith. And so they're doing the evangelization. Then, okay, send your kids to religious education at the parish and we'll catechize them.
00:25:18
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm.
00:25:18
Matt Selby
um But it's hard to catechize kids who haven't been evangelized. And so...
00:25:23
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm. Amen.
00:25:24
Matt Selby
Sometimes then we need to we need to flip the ah focus and you know first we really focus on a proclamation of the kerygma. We need to focus on introducing them to the person of Jesus, um helping them experience Jesus before we emphasize some of the content of the faith. and And those things can go hand in hand, but sometimes we're just like kind of dumping content and information.
00:25:49
Matt Selby
on someone who doesn't have the right foundation, doesn't have the context within which to process that information.
00:25:56
Fr. Kevin
Yeah.
00:25:57
Matt Selby
you know, it goes back to two, like, I think, know, like the goal catechesis is not just information. It really goes back to transformation, conversion for people to experience that, that transformation of of Christ. And so certainly evangelization catechesis go hand in hand, but we always have to remember,
00:26:14
Matt Selby
um Like evangelization is kind of the umbrella or kind of the the foundation. and We have to start there. And then we categorize people who have been evanged properly evangelized in the sense that they've encountered Christ and experienced conversion and and are seeking to live as a disciple of Christ.
00:26:21
Fr. Kevin
yeah
00:26:33
Fr. Kevin
Yeah, that image is kind of you were talking of like evangelism, if we're like building a house, evangelization is laying all the foundations and then catechesis is kind of building on that.
00:26:42
Matt Selby
Yeah.
00:26:42
Fr. Kevin
You're saying is sometimes we're trying to catechize people who aren't evangelized.
00:26:42
Matt Selby
Yeah.
00:26:45
Fr. Kevin
so it's like we're trying to build a house and there's no foundation there. Right. And so then and then we wonder why then kids don't kind of ah sometimes don't continue on with the practice of faith. Well, they've never been formally evangelized um or officially, you know, like in because because they haven't been receiving that at home.
00:27:02
Fr. Kevin
So it's like we're trying to build on a foundation that's not there. And so then it kind of falls apart.
00:27:08
Matt Selby
Yeah, can share a quick story on that that illustrates this?
00:27:10
Fr. Kevin
Yes, please.
00:27:11
Jacob Rouse
Please do.
00:27:12
Matt Selby
So I wasn't raised in the Catholic faith. So i joined the Catholic Church in 2011 after going through RCIA. And I like to there's there's a gentleman named Larry that I like to call my grandfather in the faith just because ah he was the sponsor of my sponsor. So my sponsor, when I went through RCIA, went through the process the year before, had just joined the church, the Easter vigil before I did.
00:27:37
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm.
00:27:38
Matt Selby
And Larry was his sponsor, but Larry i was involved and He's since passed away, may he rest in pay in peace, but he he was a catechist, he you know was a sponsor, he was involved in the whole process and um he would share his story and his story was that he was raised in the Catholic faith, you know active, probably like an altar boy.
00:28:01
Matt Selby
And then as a young adult, like so often happens sadly, he drifted away, he lived a very secular life for think about 30 years. And then he had this conversion experience through Protestantism and and came to really encounter Christ and then return to the Christian faith um and was so invested that he was planning to become a Protestant pastor.
00:28:27
Matt Selby
And through his studies, was re-exposed to the Catholic Church and ended up taking a journey back to the Catholic church.
00:28:35
Fr. Kevin
wow
00:28:36
Matt Selby
And I bring the story up because what he said is like growing up in the faith and, you know going to mass regularly, experiencing practice of the faith, you know, probably being catechized either through a Catholic school or through a religious education program. He had all that, but it didn't make any sense to him.
00:28:54
Matt Selby
And so when he walked away from it as a young adult, it was, it didn't feel like he was walking away from anything really important.
00:29:01
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm.
00:29:01
Matt Selby
Uh, But then when he came back to the Catholic Church, he said, not like I had to relearn all of that. He said, all a sudden, because I had encountered Christ and really experienced interior conversion in my life, everything I experienced and learned growing up just made sense.
00:29:14
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm.
00:29:18
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm.
00:29:18
Matt Selby
Like, that was the missing key. And once he had that relationship with Christ and that encounter, then all the all the content, all the rituals, all the practices just just made perfect sense.
00:29:36
Fr. Kevin
Beautiful.
00:29:37
Jacob Rouse
That's a great story.
00:29:37
Fr. Kevin
Thank you.
00:29:38
Jacob Rouse
Yeah, this house analogy is really playing on my imagination right now of, I mean, Christ himself says build the house on a foundation. And when the floods come, if you don't have the good foundation, it's like building a house on sand.
00:29:49
Jacob Rouse
But what you just described is, is maybe like a ah ah house that's being shown to be sold, like you walk in and nothing's decorated, everything's clean and perfect and technically done correctly, but it's not his home yet.
00:30:03
Jacob Rouse
And um I think there's that personal connection, not only with Jesus, but with the church that makes that beautiful, perfectly done house ah into a home.
00:30:15
Matt Selby
Yeah, that's a great analogy.
00:30:19
Fr. Kevin
Yeah. Thank you for sharing. Maybe this transitions us into how to evangelize, but maybe before we move on, I think we should probably mention about the Holy Spirit. I saw in your framework when we say who evangelizes, we say it's every baptized Christian to evangelize.
00:30:36
Fr. Kevin
But you also talk about this other this other person who's a part of this. Yeah.
00:30:41
Matt Selby
Yeah. Most important person. um So so it is all of our responsibility, but it's not like we have to do it on our own or out of our own strength.
00:30:52
Matt Selby
So print the church says the principal agent of evangelization is the Holy Spirit.
00:30:52
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm.
00:30:58
Matt Selby
The Holy Spirit must act first, that we should not evangelize just out of our own power or our own skill set, but we have to let the Holy Spirit lead.
00:31:10
Matt Selby
And you know, you think about two things. One, for a lot of people, a lot of Catholics, evangelization is kind of overwhelming or scary. Well, okay, it's not just me, it's the Holy Spirit.
00:31:22
Matt Selby
And this is why like, okay, I don't have to be an expert in apologetics to evangelize. I don't have to have a theology degree to evangelize because the Holy Spirit who works in and through me to ah convert hearts.
00:31:27
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:31:35
Matt Selby
And you think about that too, like it's, i can I could argue someone, I could argue with someone about the faith and try to convince them that the Catholic church is true. But yeah we know that oftentimes that doesn't end well or doesn't really bear fruit.
00:31:50
Matt Selby
um But also, I can't change someone's heart. Maybe I can change their mind to a certain extent or I can give good arguments, but I can't change their heart. Only God can do that. And so the we the Holy Spirit has to act.
00:32:04
Matt Selby
They have to be acting and and working in that person that we're talking to and The Holy Spirit needs to be working in and through us. And so, you know one, we need to be rooted in prayer.
00:32:16
Matt Selby
We need to be listening to the Holy Spirit. Evangelization is not something that we should force. It's something that we need to... Be open to and look for possibilities, look for opportunities, and then always be in that conversation with God about like, you should I speak up here?
00:32:35
Matt Selby
so we're discerning. Should I go talk to that person? Should I say something? you know, we can be praying. Lord, open up opportunities or like I really have a heart for my neighbor. I really have a heart for my coworker.
00:32:48
Jacob Rouse
Thank you.
00:32:48
Matt Selby
Please, Lord, help me to be a good witness to them. Please open up opportunities for me to talk with them about the faith. And so then it's not all on us.
00:32:59
Matt Selby
It's really the Holy Spirit's work. The Holy Spirit chooses to work through us. So we need to be willing instruments.
00:33:07
Fr. Kevin
which is Which I find very hopeful and relieving. a phrase I use a lot in ministries, it's about working with the Lord, not for the Lord.
00:33:12
Matt Selby
Yeah. Mm
00:33:18
Fr. Kevin
um And it sounds like a subtle distinction, but I found... when I realized that it made a huge difference in my own life and priestly ministry, because I realized there were some days when I'm working for the Lord. So we're doing these things, but like acting as if, you know, it's all on me.
00:33:35
Fr. Kevin
We have to come up with the perfect program or the perfect, you know, thing, you know, in the church where I have to say the perfect words. And that's a lot of pressure ah to, you know, as as you're leading a church community, you know, whether it's building up the perfect ah religious ed program is saying the perfect words.
00:33:51
Fr. Kevin
um But then when I realized, no, this is you have to work with the Lord, it takes a lot of the pressure off. It's like the Holy Spirit's already at work. And rather than it all being on me to figure it out, it's I simply have to like listen to the Lord and go where he's already going. And it's like like that he's already leading and and ahead, and I just have to try and be in step with him.
00:34:14
Jacob Rouse
Another image i use in my parish that I got from a friend is sailboating versus rowboating. um If you're rowboating, that means you're alone in a boat rowing your full power to try to get somewhere on a lake.
00:34:21
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:34:27
Jacob Rouse
But if you're sailboating, all you do is raise your sails and just let the wind take you. And I think that's ah that's a great check for us as we're evangelizing, as we're leading in our daily lives.
00:34:39
Jacob Rouse
Are you sailboating are you rowboating? Because if the wind of the Holy Spirit is blowing, it's going to take you places.
00:34:45
Fr. Kevin
and
00:34:46
Matt Selby
Yeah, that's a great analogy. Love it.
00:34:49
Jacob Rouse
You can use it if you want.
00:34:51
Matt Selby
I will.
00:34:52
Fr. Kevin
So obviously part of how we evangelize is the Holy Spirit is a central part of this. So obviously there's the, we ourselves have to be living that life of prayer and discernment and seeking the Lord's voice to guide us and everything.
00:35:06
Fr. Kevin
But then you have a ah ah next, the next section of this framework is how to evangelize, which maybe gets more into how do we engage with people in evangelization with the assumption that it's the that we're trying to act in step with the Holy Spirit and his guidance.
00:35:22
Fr. Kevin
So how do we evangelize, Matt Selby?
00:35:25
Matt Selby
Yeah. So one one thing I want to keep in mind is with the framework, ah we wrote this for pastoral leaders. So it's intended for a parish context. So some of the things especially in this section and even the next section, are more particular maybe to a parish setting and people who are leaders than to, um you know just kind of your average Joe Catholic.
00:35:37
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm.
00:35:49
Matt Selby
witnessing and evangelizing and their neighborhood, in the workplace, and and all of that is the end goal. But we want to look at how the church can empower and equip people to do that.
00:35:55
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:36:00
Matt Selby
And so we talk about in this section on how to evangelize ah that that one, you we need to build relationships of trust. um And that's true for everyone, but evangelization should not take place kind of in a vacuum. There are cases where know, it's appropriate to go door to door and talk to strangers about your faith.
00:36:21
Matt Selby
Certainly there's opportunities, maybe like on an airplane to get in a conversation with a person sitting next to you about your faith. And that's evangelization. And you may never see that person again.
00:36:32
Matt Selby
can continue to pray for them and hopefully you plant some seeds.
00:36:33
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:36:35
Matt Selby
um But oftentimes the most effective evangelization is within a relationship of trust. So, you know, that might be coworkers that you're working with day in and day out and you're developing this relationship. You know them, they know you, and ah you know, you can give that ongoing witness and have opportunities to talk about your faith with them.
00:36:55
Matt Selby
It might be, and obviously should be with family, ah not just immediate family, but extended family. ah Some of the hardest people to evangelize are those who are closest to us.
00:37:06
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm.
00:37:06
Matt Selby
And so that's a challenge, but it's a call too.
00:37:06
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm.
00:37:09
Matt Selby
And then ah to look at other circles of influence so sometimes evangelization can be overwhelming because like well i got to reach everyone but just think about your circle of influence there's a circle of concern that i'm concerned about you know i want all of these people to experience salvation in christ um you know i want the whole world to be saved okay Well, you're not the savior, Jesus is um
00:37:37
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm.
00:37:38
Matt Selby
Jesus calls you to witness in a particular locale, at a particular time, and we you know your sphere of influence is your primary circle to reach.
00:37:50
Matt Selby
And so those could be some of those contexts, course, family, friends, coworkers, other people that you rub shoulders with on a regular basis. So then then we wanna be intentional. um And this is, again, going back more to a parish context, but facilitating opportunities for people to experience God's saving love.
00:38:11
Matt Selby
So, you know, again, that's kind of the first step. So, you know, there might be times where you get in conversations with people about apologetics and you're going to be doing more of the the catechist role.
00:38:22
Matt Selby
But as an evangelist, we want to invite people to have an experience of God's saving love. And so how can we facilitate opportunities for that?
00:38:27
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:38:32
Matt Selby
um There's lots of different things we could invite them to. And and sometimes, you know, the... the Sometimes all we think is like, I got to get someone to mass on Sunday. And that's great. Mass is the source and summit of our faith.
00:38:44
Matt Selby
um But sometimes, you know, there's a step before that. um Maybe it's some other opportunity where they can really experience God's saving love. And then they're more ready and more open to experience the mass.
00:38:56
Matt Selby
And so we kind of discern that and be intentional and, like I say, facilitate opportunities, not forcing this, but it's facilitating and inviting.
00:39:03
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:39:05
Matt Selby
And then in a parish setting, we really want to form and equip parishioners to live as missionary disciples to go out. ah The parish is kind of the place where um you know people are fed, they're nourished, they're invested in spiritually, they're equipped.
00:39:20
Matt Selby
And then, you know as we hear at the end of mass, they're sent out to go and to be leavened in the world. And so we need to send people out on mission um and then supporting each other too. you know, we're not just alone in this, in the sense that like, it's my responsibility, you know, we but we have the Holy Spirit, um but we also have the whole church. And so we're all in this mission together.
00:39:45
Matt Selby
And so we need to encourage one another, support one another, keep each other accountable, pray for one another, help each other in this mission of of evangelizing.
00:39:45
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:39:56
Matt Selby
And one of the principles we say here that I think is important is, again, going back to this mindset, like I want to reach everyone. um There's a principle that we need to reach the few in order to reach the many.
00:40:09
Matt Selby
Now, Jesus did both. Like we see Jesus, of course, preaching to the masses. and performing miracles in front of the masses. But he also chose 12 apostles to invest very deeply in.
00:40:23
Matt Selby
And so sometimes that sphere of influence again is like, who are the few that I can just really reach out to invest in?
00:40:23
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:40:30
Matt Selby
And then if they replicate that, that's that's more of the multiplication model of reaching people rather than just like, we got to reach all the masses at once.
00:40:41
Matt Selby
Now let's reach a few, they can reach a few, they can reach a few, they can reach a few, and eventually we'll reach the many. um so So that's an important principle here.
00:40:53
Fr. Kevin
Yeah, I like how you word it in the framework. Pastoral leaders should strategically focus on evangelizing the evangelizers, you know, like investing in those few so that they can multi invest in a few and they invest in a few and multiply.
00:41:01
Matt Selby
Now,
00:41:06
Fr. Kevin
yeah.
00:41:07
Matt Selby
Absolutely.
00:41:09
Fr. Kevin
And I know we're talking about this in a parish setting, but I know that is part of the how an organization called FOCUS, Fellowship of Catholic University Students, who um will hopefully be featured later on this podcast as well, um but on college campuses do that kind of model and trying to kind of gather together a few and really investing deeply in them yes doing some broader scale ah proclamations or opportunities for encounter with the lord but investing in a few to equip them to go and invest in a few others and do that multiplication model um on college campuses and i think they're doing really good work including on college campuses in our very own archdiocese at loris college at ah university of northern iowa and at iowa state university so
00:41:54
Jacob Rouse
is um Is evangelization a one-time thing? Like, am I all of a sudden converted? I know Jesus, and now the people I'm trying to evangelize. Is it ah is it a one-time thing? or is it a How would you answer that?
00:42:09
Matt Selby
Great question. So for us as Catholics, it's an ongoing process of conversion.
00:42:14
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm.
00:42:14
Matt Selby
So it's kind of a different mentality, like for me coming from an evangelical Protestant upbringing, and I was a Protestant missionary traveling over to the Middle East to evangelize people in a foreign country and yeah doing things like going door to door or passing out literature on the street and talking to people that maybe I'd never see again.
00:42:34
Matt Selby
um And that was kind of the mentality for us was like, we got to get converts like we gotta you know you gotta get them to commit and then like okay they're in they're good like we've evangelized them now of course there's the life of discipleship but um it was more of a one-time thing kind of once saved always saved where you know our catholic theology teaches us of course our christian life begins at baptism but then it's a whole journey it's a pilgrimage throughout this life of growing and um
00:42:53
Fr. Kevin
hmm
00:43:06
Matt Selby
Conversion, I think, is the key word that it's it's this ongoing process of conversion that we constantly need to be evangelized. And so it's not just like me, I'm an evangelist. I need to go evangelize every everyone when else. I need to continually be evangelized.
00:43:23
Matt Selby
And then I need to go out and evangelize others. um quick Quick story. I've shared this many times, but it illustrates this point. after Soon after I became Catholic,
00:43:34
Matt Selby
I was out at a conference in Denver, Colorado, and they had a little seminarian fundraising dinner that we happened to attend. And Archbishop Charles Chaput was the keynote speaker.
00:43:48
Matt Selby
um he was He had recently moved to Philadelphia as Archbishop out there, but you know he had been Archbishop of Denver. he was coming back. And um I was still relatively new the Catholic faith. We were eating dinner and kind of waiting for the keynotes.
00:44:03
Matt Selby
to start later. And I got a tap on my shoulder and looked back and it was Archbishop Charles de Pugh making the rounds before his talk, greeting everyone and saying hi. And um he he said, um he just asked me who I was. And I said, oh, I'm Matt. I'm from Minnesota at the time and little bit more. And then without thinking about it, I looked back at him i said, and who are you?
00:44:27
Matt Selby
And he was kind of taken aback. He said, i'm Archbishop Charles de Pugh. And I recognized right away, got red in the face and was embarrassed to note that, oh, I should know who you are. Like, you're a big wig in the church.
00:44:41
Matt Selby
You're the keynote speaker tonight. I should probably know who you are. So I came up with the first excuse I could. I said, well, I'm a convert. I'm new here. I just recently joined the church. Sorry, i like I don't know Catholic stuff.
00:44:55
Matt Selby
And without skipping a beat, he said, well, I'm always converting. And then he walked away.
00:45:01
Jacob Rouse
Whoa.
00:45:03
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm.
00:45:04
Matt Selby
Always stuck with me because like, you know, people like me get the label convert or, you know, we have like an evangelical Protestant.
00:45:08
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm.
00:45:10
Matt Selby
There's that mentality of like kind of one and done, know, get them to, you know, commit and pray the prayer and um you're saved.
00:45:21
Matt Selby
But like Archbishop Chaput said, We're always converting. We're always called to conversion.
00:45:26
Fr. Kevin
who
00:45:28
Matt Selby
It's an ongoing lifelong process.
00:45:34
Fr. Kevin
beautiful
00:45:36
Jacob Rouse
That's cool.
00:45:39
Fr. Kevin
so speaking of our need to receive the gospel to be evangelized and so on uh well uh let's can we transition into you then finally we've talked about how to evangelize finally this process of evangelization
00:45:55
Fr. Kevin
You kind of have these these these four um aspects or this methodology of discipleship is this ongoing conversion. So you would share a bit about that.
00:46:07
Matt Selby
Yeah. So there's there's a lot in recent years, there's been a lot of talk and a lot of resources on evangelization. And so there's a lot of different methods or models that are put out there.
00:46:18
Matt Selby
And so and we kind of had to discern, like, do we use one in particular? do we meld them together? um you have Sherry Waddell's. thresholds of conversion, for example, great resource, great stuff there.
00:46:29
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:46:31
Matt Selby
um we decided to stick with the language from the USCCB from a document called living as missionary disciples. And they have these four elements in this cyclical process of evangelization. And it's a encounter, accompaniment, community, and mission.
00:46:50
Matt Selby
Um, there's a nice graphic we have in the document that I'll try to illustrate and try to explain, but, um the There's a natural progression here from one to another. So there's a reason for the ordering of encounter, accompaniment, community, and mission.
00:47:04
Matt Selby
But they're they're a cycle. They're a circle going around. And all of them sustained by the Holy Spirit. And it's a continual process. So we don't want to think of it as linear. We don't want to think of it as now I'm doing step one.
00:47:17
Matt Selby
Now I'm doing step two. And and they they really kind of melt together. But As we've talked about already, the foundation is that encounter with Christ, that we need to experience the Lord um before we really can have that you know that that foundation to build upon in the Christian life.
00:47:29
Jacob Rouse
you
00:47:37
Matt Selby
And so this personal encounter with Christ is kind the first element in the discipleship or evangelization process. And it's an experience that impacts the way you live. So it's transformative. It's meeting Jesus as a real person, and that changes the trajectory of my life. And sometimes that is like that one time really stark, like,
00:48:02
Matt Selby
St. Paul on the road to Damascus sort of experience. um But other times and maybe oftentimes for a lot of us, especially raised in the Christian faith, it's more of a gradual over time.
00:48:12
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm.
00:48:12
Matt Selby
And sometimes we have those key moments. Maybe it's a CEW or maybe it was NCYC as a teenager. Maybe it's this one holy hour I had in Eucharistic adoration that oh that I really felt Jesus's presence. I really encountered him and that ah transformed my life. um It's that continual process of conversion that happens through encountering the person of Jesus really day in and day out. It's a daily invitation to encounter him.
00:48:42
Fr. Kevin
Okay.
00:48:43
Matt Selby
And so um that's the foundation foundation, but it's not the end. When we've encountered Christ, we really need help like processing that encounter, that experience, and learning how to apply that to our lives.
00:48:59
Matt Selby
And so You know we need to be accompanied. We need to have someone to mentor us, to walk with us, to help us to experience um the application of that encounter.
00:49:12
Matt Selby
and to grow in discipleship habits. And so I think that, you know, the the the example I would think, let's just say an example, CEW, let's say you go to a retreat, whether it's a CEW or another retreat, you go and you experience the Lord.
00:49:24
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm.
00:49:29
Matt Selby
um And now it's like, what do what do I do? How do I live this? And We don't want to just get in the mentality of like, well, I just need to go on another CEW and that's how i you know continue my faith. That's a good thing.
00:49:42
Matt Selby
you know and And you can go back and experience the Lord again, kind have maybe that mountaintop encounter, but we need to apply that to our daily life, especially out in the world.
00:49:54
Matt Selby
So I'm going to go back to my workplace. I'm going to go back to my family. I'm going to go back to daily grind. And so how do i learn to live and ah and really apply what I've experienced in my daily life. That takes accompaniment. I need other Christians to walk this journey with me.
00:50:11
Matt Selby
I need mentors.
00:50:11
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm.
00:50:12
Matt Selby
I need people who have... um kind of gone before who have a little bit more maturity maybe in their faith. And so, you know, I need maybe a small group. Maybe it's not just one person, but it's a small group of people. And that's why, you know, some of these ministries have those structures in place. You go on a retreat and then, well, after the retreat experience, you you meet with a small group on a weekly or on a monthly basis to continue to grow.
00:50:37
Matt Selby
and support one another in faith. So that's really the accompaniment piece. There's a lot of different ways that can happen. um I even think it's, you know, it's kind of built into our structure of a church as a church with sacramental prep.
00:50:51
Matt Selby
We have confirmation sponsors, we have OCIA sponsors, we have maybe marriage prep, mentor couples or sponsor couples.
00:50:51
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:51:00
Matt Selby
We have godparents for baptism. These are all people who are intended to mentor us, to intended to accompany us, to are intended to support us in our faith journey.
00:51:13
Matt Selby
ah Small groups, I think, are very important, and we can maybe build that more into the structure of parishes to have people accompany each other. um So I think that's a really important, like encounter the foundation, but accompaniment is really important.
00:51:29
Matt Selby
to put the encounter experiences into action in our daily lives.
00:51:29
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm.
00:51:37
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm.
00:51:39
Jacob Rouse
Encounter, accompaniment, community, beautiful.
00:51:44
Matt Selby
Yeah, so so to talk about community a little bit, it kind of builds on that accompaniment if you think of like small groups or one-on-one or couple-to-couple, mentorship, um community, that that should lead to being part of the community. And when we say community, that's that's another word that's thrown around a lot.
00:52:03
Matt Selby
And um we're pretty specific here. that it's not just like treating the church as a social club, like that's, those are my people, those are the people I hang out with, um or I have good community events, those are important things, but we're really talking about the church as the body of Christ, that the church is a community of believers, that it's not just a natural institution, it's not just a
00:52:12
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:52:31
Matt Selby
human institution, it's a divine institution, it's a spiritual reality ah that we are all united as brothers and sisters in Christ.
00:52:42
Matt Selby
And we need in the journey of faith to be part of a Now, typically that's through your local parish, um but you it's not limited that we have a universal church.
00:52:51
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm.
00:52:54
Matt Selby
And so when we're baptized, we're brought into the body of Christ or a member of the church. And so we're united to Christians all around the world. and we want to help each other on that journey we're in this race together and we need to cheer each other on support each other pat each other on the back encourage each other support one another um help each other and the church is there to provide us what we need for that journey to heaven and so in particular we have the sacraments
00:53:26
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm.
00:53:28
Matt Selby
that the church administers to give us the very life of Christ and to give us the grace that we need to continue to be strengthened on this journey and to experience that transformation, that conversion.
00:53:42
Matt Selby
And so, you know, we need to plug people into that. So if you think about like encounter, we don't want just leave people at the like me and Jesus level. or the accompaniment We don't want to just leave people at the me and my friend my mentor and Jesus.
00:53:53
Jacob Rouse
Thank you.
00:53:59
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm.
00:54:00
Matt Selby
We need to invite people into the life of the church.
00:54:03
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm.
00:54:04
Matt Selby
That's the fullness that they're going to experience then to grow as a disciple. um So how can we foster that? How can we encourage that? How can we build ah community?
00:54:17
Matt Selby
i like I like to say, so there's there's kind of some key words here, like encounters, we can't force them, we can foster them. So we want to foster encounters. We want to provide accompaniment, intentional, clear, maybe structures sometimes in place for accompaniment to happen.
00:54:35
Matt Selby
We want to build community in the life of the church.
00:54:39
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:54:40
Matt Selby
And then we want to send people out on mission, And you know they're they're ambassadors for Christ. We're proclaiming the gospel. We're evangelizing for Christ. But they're also ambassadors for the church. So that's why there's this key order to this.
00:54:55
Matt Selby
um We're sent out from the church. We're not just rogue evangelists going out on our own to just share about our personal encounter, our personal experience. We're representatives of the church. So we need to...
00:55:07
Matt Selby
um you know Represent the church and Christ well, as best as we can. And we hear this every time we go to Mass, we're sent out at the end of Mass on mission. So, um you know, we're we're fed, we're nurtured, ah we're strengthened, we're united together as the body of Christ, and then we're sent out from there, from that source and summit of our faith to share Jesus with the world.
00:55:33
Fr. Kevin
yeah
00:55:33
Matt Selby
Amen.
00:55:33
Fr. Kevin
go Go in peace and glorify the Lord by your life.
00:55:37
Jacob Rouse
That's the one I say too.
00:55:39
Fr. Kevin
Yeah, or go and announce the gospel of the Lord. Those are two options for the ending of Mass. To your point, Matt.
00:55:45
Matt Selby
Yeah. Beautiful.
00:55:47
Fr. Kevin
Yeah.
00:55:48
Matt Selby
So we, we, we should say, thanks be to God that I've been entrusted with his mission and I'm going to go out and live the mission rather than saying, thanks be to God.
00:55:54
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm.
00:55:58
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm.
00:55:59
Matt Selby
The mass is over. I can go, I can leave.
00:56:00
Jacob Rouse
and yeah
00:56:02
Matt Selby
i'm and we We want to, like we want to take that seriously and go out and take what we've received from the scriptures and the Eucharist in particular and from being with the community of believers, take what we've received and share that with with those we encounter with the world.
00:56:15
Jacob Rouse
Yeah.
00:56:23
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm.
00:56:23
Matt Selby
so So that that's the four um elements. Again, it's like cyclical. So one, it's not like, okay, I'm um'm an evangelist, so I've graduated to level four.
00:56:37
Matt Selby
um constantly We all constantly need to encounter Christ We all need accompaniment on an ongoing basis. We all need to be actively engaged in the life of the church. We need that community of the body of Christ.
00:56:53
Matt Selby
And we are all sent out on mission. And that continues that cycle over and over again in our lives. um
00:57:02
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:57:03
Matt Selby
And so I like to look at this as a lens through which to look at ministry.
00:57:05
Jacob Rouse
um
00:57:09
Matt Selby
Think about a parish, we can ask the question, how are we fostering encounters? and For some, you know, it's really the Holy Spirit that's doing the work, but we can provide environments like a retreat, like Eucharistic adoration, other things. we could We can foster those. How are we providing accompaniment?
00:57:29
Matt Selby
are we intentionally doing that? Are we just... checking a box by getting our confirmation candidates to have a sponsor? Are we investing in the sponsors and helping equip them to be someone who will accompany those confirmants?
00:57:44
Matt Selby
Same with other sacraments. um Are we you know creating structures like small groups for accompaniment?
00:57:51
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm.
00:57:51
Matt Selby
How are we building community?
00:57:52
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm.
00:57:53
Matt Selby
um That yeah comes back to how you know how is the mass celebrated? How is um how was the liturgical life of the church? really expressing the fullness of of our faith in an intentional way at our parish.
00:58:08
Matt Selby
It also involves like, you know, how are we building community by having gatherings and events and opportunities for people to fellowship and get to know each other? um And then how are we sending people out on mission? How are we really, one, inviting them to embrace that call and two, equipping them to live that call?
00:58:29
Matt Selby
and And so it provides a nice, framework, a nice lens through which you look at ministry in a parish setting, but also our own lives of like, how have I encountered the Lord? How have I been accompanied? Who am I accompanying?
00:58:45
Matt Selby
How has the community impacted me? How am I giving back to the community of the church? um How am i going out on mission and sharing with people in my sphere of influence?
00:58:59
Jacob Rouse
Matt, what what kind of um guidance or encouragement would you have for someone like myself who ah at one time in my life, I um didn't really know the Lord, but I saw other people as projects or as ah goals to meet. um They need to be evangelized or be taught in the way that I think they should be. And seeing people as projects, um what what kind of guidance would you have for that kind of temptation?
00:58:59
Fr. Kevin
So go ahead, Father Jacob.
00:59:30
Matt Selby
Yeah, that's a great question. um i would say that that was a little bit more of my mindset as a Protestant missionary. Sometimes we'd get into that about numbers and just look at people as projects of got to accomplish, you conversion. um And I think one, know, if we can kind of eat some humble pie and have some docility and recognize First, that this is primarily the work of the Holy Spirit.
00:59:59
Jacob Rouse
uh-huh yeah mm-hmm
00:59:59
Matt Selby
So it's not ultimately up to me.
01:00:02
Jacob Rouse
yeah
01:00:02
Matt Selby
um And then also be open. I think it comes back to the life of prayer. Like if if we are prayerful before we try to evangelize,
01:00:16
Matt Selby
then that helps put the things in perspective and sees people for who they are rather than as a project. And I i know it is like working in ministry, working for the church.
01:00:28
Matt Selby
It's easy to get in project mode um or or everything.
01:00:31
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
01:00:33
Matt Selby
We've got to measure this and measure that. And it's all about the numbers or the data, but it's really about the people. And the reality is that people are messy.
01:00:44
Matt Selby
And so ministry is messy because it involves people.
01:00:47
Jacob Rouse
Hm.
01:00:47
Matt Selby
And we just kind of have to sometimes let go you know, our egos and even what we want to um accomplish and just trust the Holy Spirit and listen and be attentive. And like that analogy, let let the wind of the Holy Spirit take the sailboat where he wants to take it rather than trying to row and force a direction we want to go.
01:01:19
Jacob Rouse
Sounds like love and faith.
01:01:21
Matt Selby
Yeah, yeah.
01:01:22
Fr. Kevin
So,
01:01:24
Matt Selby
I think so.
01:01:24
Fr. Kevin
yeah
01:01:26
Matt Selby
i think we have to be, you know, Pope Francis already talked about having the smell of the sheep. That's important analogy. we We have to know the people that we're ministering to, know the people that we're trying to reach, because then we know where they're at.
01:01:41
Matt Selby
and what their needs are, and we're not making assumptions or jumping to conclusions, then we can walk with them where they're at.
01:01:51
Fr. Kevin
One thing that I think also connects to this, I know this isn't, ah this is a slightly different, this isn't in the framework, but I heard the once something that's my story, your story and God's story as a way of like, in order to share God's story with someone else, um I have to be aware of my story as in how God has worked in my life.
01:02:04
Matt Selby
Hmm.
01:02:10
Fr. Kevin
Like we talked about with encounter and stuff, but also it means i have to listen to the other story, to your story, before I think I can just impose, you know, or proclaim God's story into your life.
01:02:22
Fr. Kevin
um And I think that helps, to Father Jacob's point, too, that people aren't merely projects. It's like, if if I think about it that way, that um it it certainly involves not just us. pro is Certainly, it is the proclamation of the gospel.
01:02:37
Fr. Kevin
But hearing someone and knowing where they're at, and like you said earlier about that, then builds those relationships of trust. um When someone genuinely knows that I love and care about them, um they're going to be more open than to receiving me trying to point out to them how God's at work in their life.
01:02:54
Fr. Kevin
So I think there is a listening dimension to your point, Father Jacob.
01:02:59
Jacob Rouse
Yeah, listening is important in that relationship. In early priesthood, I shared that I was having trouble, troubles ah cooking for myself and providing food. And many people said, you need to have an air fryer.
01:03:13
Jacob Rouse
you You need to have you tried one? And I'm like, ah No, I don't really know what that is. And some people would push it on me, they'd be like, you need to have an air fryer. And I'd say, Oh, I kind of want to leave the room right now.
01:03:26
Jacob Rouse
It wasn't until um some good ah group of friends were in my house for a Christmas gathering and they saw that I, in fact, did not have an air fryer. They noticed the spot on my counter. They all together um bought me an air fryer and I plugged it in.
01:03:26
Matt Selby
Thank you.
01:03:42
Jacob Rouse
And now I make the most delicious crispy broccoli. Ever.
01:03:46
Fr. Kevin
Thank you.
01:03:47
Jacob Rouse
This, um, I didn't really, i knew I needed some help. I didn't know what that was, but the people pushing it on me, i didn't really want to have anything to do with it, but it wasn't until someone was actually in my home, in my space, knowing me, seeing me as a person.
01:04:02
Jacob Rouse
And then they shared their joy of, uh, air friars with me. And, um, Now I'm happy and I learned different things throughout it. It's not just I have it now I'm perfect. I still learn different ways you can cook, time, temperature.
01:04:16
Jacob Rouse
um So basically an air fryer is the gospel.
01:04:21
Fr. Kevin
But an apt analogy of the relationship. so So this is all really good stuff. Thank you, Matt Selby, for coming on and talking about this. um We may have some parish leaders or parish staff listening to this, and they may want to dig more deeply into this framework for evangelization that was created for them.
01:04:38
Fr. Kevin
um Is there a way they can access this, or where can they find this if they want to get a copy of this framework for adult evangelization and formation that we just went through?
01:04:49
Matt Selby
Yeah, so we have a webpage where people can go and access the document itself digitally.
01:04:55
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
01:04:56
Matt Selby
It's also available in Spanish and there's related resources there. It is a little bit of a long a mouthful of a webpage, but I'll read it off and then I'll give my contact information too because people could reach out directly to me.
01:05:10
Matt Selby
um So it's the Archdiocese website, dbqarch.org. dbqarch.org forward slash adult hyphen evangelization hyphen and hyphen formation hyphen initiative.
01:05:26
Matt Selby
I should really shorten that. But um so so if you just think adult evangelization and formation initiative with a hyphen in between each word, adult evangelization and formation initiative.
01:05:28
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
01:05:39
Matt Selby
um Maybe the easier one to remember is just, you can reach out to me m.selby, S-E-L-B-Y, s e l b y at dbqarch.org. So m.selby at dbqarch.org.
01:05:56
Matt Selby
Be happy to answer any questions or point you to that website. ah Happy to talk about evangelization. um It's ah it's an exciting time in the church, really, this this initiative, um,
01:06:10
Matt Selby
was was in the works you know before we really knew where we were going with Journey and Faith. and um The Holy Spirit had a plan because I think it could not have been better timing to have been emphasizing and talking about evangelization these last couple years in the Archdiocese and having a resource like this framework as a point of reference to then build upon during this journey in faith to to keep us focused the mission of the church, why we're doing what we're doing,
01:06:43
Matt Selby
and to to help us take some action. I think that's the next step is to kind of build upon the principles to a little bit more of the particulars of strategies and ways ways to implement this vision of evangelization.
01:06:54
Fr. Kevin
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
01:06:59
Jacob Rouse
Real quick for all those scrambling for a notebook, um you can just scroll right on down to the show notes and um everything that that including an outline of these vocab words and that website will be clickable right beneath this wherever you're recording and listening.
01:07:16
Matt Selby
Great.
01:07:18
Fr. Kevin
Well, we look forward, so as we talk about, this framework is just the foundation and beginning, and we look forward to hearing more as the we build upon this as parishes, but also, I assume, as the diocese of kind of making steps forward as we have this priority of evangelization. So we look forward to hearing and learning more, and and maybe as those develops, we may have you back on, Matt, to talk more about those. so um ah So thank you for coming on and sharing with us this framework.
01:07:45
Fr. Kevin
ah Hopefully gives people a good, ah better grasp and understanding what evangelization is. And is there anything else you want to share before we wrap up here?
01:07:57
Matt Selby
Just thank you for the opportunity to share and um yeah, we'll continue this journey together and see where the Holy Spirit leads us. um But I'm excited for ah how God's at work and what's going on the Archdiocese and where we're headed.
01:08:12
Matt Selby
And I think there's a lot of opportunity ah to move the mission forward and to really embrace the mission of evangelization at the front and center of all that we do in the church here locally at the in the Archdiocese.
01:08:28
Fr. Kevin
Amen. Thank you so much for your time and for coming out and talking to us about this.
01:08:29
Jacob Rouse
Thank you.
01:08:32
Fr. Kevin
So,
01:08:34
Matt Selby
Welcome. Thank you.
01:08:36
Jacob Rouse
Thank you for listening, everyone. And let's move the needle with the help of the Holy Spirit. And I'll see you in the Eucharist.