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3: What Is The Plan?
57 Plays1 month ago
Deacon Keith McCarraher, ordained in 2019, has worked for the Archdiocese for a little over a year managing the IT department and serving as the Co-Director of Pastoral Planning & Leadership Development.
Kim Hermson, ED.S. has been a faithful servant of the Archdiocese of Dubuque for 26 years: Catholic School Principal for 15 years, Superintendent for 8 years and is now starting her 4th year as Co-Director of Pastoral Planning and Leadership Development.
As our guests on this episode, they provide the nuts and bolts of what the Journey In Faith plan actually looks like
https://www.dbqjourneyinfaith.org/
Journey in Faith Prayer
Lord Jesus,
You accompanied your disciples on the way to Emmaus.
As we journey in faith,
we trust in your Spirit
to open our eyes
to set our hearts on fire
and to transform our parishes.
Make yourself known to us
through breaking open word and bread,
that we may travel together on mission;
to grow disciples, cultivate leaders, and unify parishes,
with our journey ending in You,
who live and reign forever and ever. Amen.
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Transcript
Introduction of Hosts
00:00:13
Speaker
Hello, my name is Father Jacob Rouse, and I'm the pastor of Notre Dame Parish in Cresco, Iowa. And I'm Father Kevin Earlywine, pastor of St. Patrick's in Hampton and St. Mary's in Ackley. And welcome to the DeBucharistic Revival podcast.
00:00:28
Speaker
Because that's the name we're going with. Father Kevin, um it's been a long week for me, and... ah I forgot everything we talked about last time, but I don't have time to listen to the whole episode. So I was i was wondering if you could just briefly recap ah something about priorities, um something about missionary, zeal, all that stuff.
Journey in Faith Initiative
00:00:47
Speaker
Yeah. So in our last couple of episodes, we've been talking about this Journey in Faith initiative in the Archdiocese of Dubuque. So ah our first episode, we talked about the vision um of the journey in faith. So we kind of talked the about the mission, the vision, the priorities. So and then so briefly, we our vision is that we are an engaged archdiocese community of joyful missionary disciples centered in our Eucharistic relationship with Jesus Christ and united through our legacy of faith.
00:01:18
Speaker
So that vision statement that we talked about, so you can go back and listen to that episode, but we talked about that's where we want to go. You know, we're trying to become a community of joyful missionaries, disciples centered on our Eucharistic relationship with the Lord.
00:01:31
Speaker
And so we talked about some of the values that'll get us there and that to help get us there, we've named three priorities. ah One of these priorities is evangelization, which we talked about last episode with Matt Selby. So if you haven't listened to that, you can go back and listen to that.
00:01:48
Speaker
ah Also leadership formation is one of them. But the third priority is pastoral planning.
Introduction of Guests on Pastoral Planning
00:01:55
Speaker
ah That is one of the three priorities. And so today we've brought on a couple guests to speak with us about pastoral planning. What is the plan? So with us, we have with us Deacon Keith McCarriher and Kim Hermsen. So welcome to the the podcast and invite you each to introduce yourselves and who you are and and what you do for the Archdiocese.
00:02:17
Speaker
Thank you. I'm Deacon Keith McCarriher, and um I've worked for the Archdiocese little over a year now, and I've got a history of IT behind me and ah have been ah managing not only the IT department for the Archdiocese, but ah pastoral planning as co-director with Kim Hermsen.
00:02:38
Speaker
And journey in faith has been my my life for the last year. It's been ah it's been quite a journey. Hello, fathers. I'm Kim Hermsen, co-director of pastoral planning.
00:02:48
Speaker
I worked for the Archdiocese for the last 26 years. I worked at school for 15 years, and I was the superintendent of schools for eight years.
00:02:59
Speaker
And so now this is my going on fourth year in this role. Excellent. Thank you for joining us. We got two high profile individuals here on our podcast. Um, before we get into the details of the pastoral plan, um, why do we need to pastorally plan?
Importance of Pastoral Planning
00:03:17
Speaker
The archdiocese has been going through, a quite a change, just like the diocese across this nation. We've seen, uh, declines in our priest numbers. Just, we, we had one priest recently tell me, um,
00:03:32
Speaker
he's still in active ministry. and And he told me that when he was ordained, there were over 300 priests in our archdiocese. And, and now we have 60, quite quite a decrease in our priests.
00:03:48
Speaker
ah And yet the number of the number of buildings and communities we're trying to serve ah is is still you know the same. The number of towns is the same. ah We've,
00:03:59
Speaker
We've seen a decline in some of the buildings that we serve, but but there's still quite a few. Meanwhile, the number of Catholics in the archdiocese who are attending mass um has declined by 46% just in the last 10 years.
00:04:15
Speaker
We've seen we've seen our our our sacraments go down as well. Baptisms, 22% decline. and First Communion's years Confirmation's 30% less. less than ten years ago confirmations thirty percent less and the And the real big one is our sacramental marriages are down 57% in the last decade. And and if you don't have sacramental marriages, you're going to see a decline in all those other sacraments that I just mentioned.
00:04:43
Speaker
So so we do have this um we do have this secular move in our in our world that we're dealing with. And And so pastoral planning is where you try to address
Proactive Measures for Parish Vibrancy
00:04:56
Speaker
that. So pastoral planning, though, that while that sounds doom and gloom, I mean, this isn't just about managed decline, is it?
00:05:04
Speaker
You're right, Father. We want people to think about pastoral planning as a proactive way to help support our parishes so that we can have vibrant parish communities.
00:05:15
Speaker
And when we're thinking about and planning for a journey in faith, we're really looking at a 25 plus year window. And so as we think about, um you know, where the church has been, the strengths that we have,
00:05:28
Speaker
the opportunities that we have to grow. We're really focused on not just managing decline. that's been That's sort of a scarcity mindset, but instead we're looking at how can we evangelize? How can we have these vibrant communities? And um the priorities that you had talked about in a previous episode, evangelization is the most important priority that we have, followed by leadership development, leadership development in our laity, in our clergy.
00:05:57
Speaker
But in order to be able to support evangelization and leadership development, we really need to look big picture about how we're organized. And so this idea of pastoral planning comes from that having a strategic vision to help support ultimately the mission.
00:06:13
Speaker
Absolutely. So I think we spoke of in our vision episode, episode one, yeah, that those three priorities are interconnected. And And as you said, Kim, leadership formation and this Passover planning are at service to help us to more effectively evangelize. It's at the service of the mission of evangelization. So it's not we're trying to be proactive and not just managing decline, but that movement from managed decline to mission and be missionary disciples.
00:06:40
Speaker
So. ah So thank you. So along that, I don't know if we want to transition then into, ah so what is the plan? What is the pastoral plan that will help us to position us to better and more effectively evangelize? So so what what have we been working on?
Understanding the Pastorate Model
00:06:58
Speaker
So we've we've been working on a plan that will help us better utilize our our resources. um we We looked at many things, ah infrastructure,
00:07:09
Speaker
ah number of priests we have, ah church capacities, 20-year projections, out ah to 25-year projections, and it came across ah the need to align much better with ah with our resources that we have.
00:07:29
Speaker
And so we came up with a characteristic of what a pastorate would look like. And so currently we think of of clusters. We've heard of clusters. We use that language. We hear of linkages. We use that language.
00:07:44
Speaker
um And and ah yet other churches are simply a single church parish. Well, um what our model shows is that we currently have 67 pastorates. So that means that ah whether it's a single church, a parish that has a pastor, or it's a cluster of five that has a pastor, those are called pastorates.
00:08:08
Speaker
And so right now we have 67 of them across the archdiocese. And that requires, like I said, 67 pastors. Well, I mentioned to you before, we have 60 priests, native-born sons that are or serving our diocese, and the rest are international priests that have generously donated their time.
00:08:30
Speaker
Looking at a sustainable pastorate designed for the archdiocese, ah we figured we need between 27 to 29 that would allow us to, a provide pastors for the future, and also to have what we're calling parochial vicars. So ah we've referred to a ah priests that are not the pastors serving in a parish as associate pastors in the past.
00:09:00
Speaker
But we were designing our pastoral plan so that every new pastorate will have a pastor and a parochial vicar, ah if not just one, but two.
00:09:13
Speaker
So there may be even more, depending on the size of the pastorate.
Benefits of the Pastorate Model
00:09:18
Speaker
Thank you. And as we talked about, and I think we talked about this in a previous episode too, part of, well, I'll let you speak to What are some of the benefits of that, of better utilizing our priests and their gifts with that?
00:09:34
Speaker
The benefits we're expecting is ah right now, i want i want you to think about what happens at the end of a typical mass throughout our archdiocese.
00:09:45
Speaker
I know in in my pastorate, ah the priest will be done with, say, 830 mass, and then he has to run.
00:09:56
Speaker
He can't stand and talk. He has to he has to run to his next mass. And there's no time for that priest to be able to ah engage with his people.
00:10:07
Speaker
And that's just one piece of it. Our priests are so busy managing masses, managing ah the finances of multiple buildings and parishes and all those committees that they currently have to ah be in charge of.
00:10:24
Speaker
ah that they can't do what they were actually called to do. Our priests were not called to be CEOs of multimillion dollar, uh, multi church, uh, uh, corporations. They were called to be priests to serve the communities and the people.
00:10:42
Speaker
And, uh, and right now they can't, it's, it's, uh, it's, it's just systemic and it is across the nation. We're seeing it too. So we need to,
00:10:52
Speaker
um We need to size ourselves and structure ourselves correctly so that our we have a sustainable priesthood. People have you know this benefit, people have asked me, well well, how will this plan help us to um to get more priests, right?
00:11:09
Speaker
And my answer to that is, if you were ah if you are a young man in our archdiocese today, what do you see when you look at a priest?
00:11:21
Speaker
You see that priest who is running running to the next meeting, running, you know, and and doesn't have time to give to you, the young man who's considering the priesthood.
00:11:32
Speaker
But now let's go forward. And we have a design where our priests can spend time with the flock and and have joy in their lives and have less stress.
00:11:43
Speaker
ah Holy, happy priests, that's attractive to a young man. So that's a huge benefit of ah pastoral planning in that we can,
00:11:54
Speaker
ah we can bolster our ah calls to the priesthood ah through example by healthy and holy priests that serve our communities.
00:12:05
Speaker
Yeah, it's really putting the administrative burden on a minority of priests rather than currently almost all our priests have to bear that. And ah so it allows us to be more selective in our pastors and also frees up other priests to more effectively use their gifts, you know, whether it's Preaching, teaching, spiritual direction, sacraments, ah whatever that may be.
00:12:27
Speaker
um And so we can be more discerning and selective with that. And the other thing I'll add to that, Deacon Keith, is um also this new pastorate model kind of allows more intentional... fraternity among the priests, ah which is bills for a healthy priesthood.
00:12:42
Speaker
I know for myself, you know, i began and in rural ministry and was with a priest for one year, but then he moved. And then ah my first ah five years or so as pastor, ah the next priest from me was an hour away, you know, nearly every direction.
00:12:58
Speaker
And so there's something about, you know, now in these new pastor's arraignments, arrangements, we can have more priestly fraternity, which does really build a healthier priesthood. So so that's good. so So thank you for sharing that.
00:13:11
Speaker
so So we have these pastorates, and then um there's also some talk about um it within those pastorates, some Sunday liturgies.
Enhancing Sunday Liturgies and Services
00:13:19
Speaker
And I know there's been talk of of how do we have have more vibrant liturgies.
00:13:25
Speaker
A focus of Journey in Faith is really making sure that we have the most vibrant, engaging liturgies that we can have. And we know that mass is the source and summit for us as Catholics.
00:13:37
Speaker
And so currently in the Archdiocese, we have 260 masses every weekend going on across the entire Archdiocese, but that those masses are only utilizing 37% of the capacity of those masses that are being held And so um as we're looking at Journey in Faith, part of this process has been these models that have been proposed for us to look at the locations of those weekend masses so that we can um have fuller churches. Now, that does mean fewer masses, but the idea would be that we would have fuller churches, more vibrant liturgies, collaborations on ministries, whether it be um you know music ministries, altar servers, lectors,
00:14:25
Speaker
um and really trying to draw communities together. Because big picture, as I had mentioned, we're looking for the next 25 years. So this who are we going to work with for the next 25 years? and And we're becoming then that new pastor, that that new community that we're building on.
00:14:42
Speaker
You know, one of the things that I often hear priests talk about is how difficult it is saying mass when not only are you rushing around from place to place and you have to leave right away and You know, I know priests that say, I know I have seven minutes after mass to talk to people and then I have to hop in the car.
00:14:59
Speaker
and And that's hard when, you know, a community member comes up to you, wants to visit about something that's on their mind mind or heart. But the other thing we we think about in this is that, um you know, this is an opportunity to to draw people together. And like, what if it was like Christmas or Easter all the time with full churches? You know, priests also um comment, you know, when they're saying mass,
00:15:23
Speaker
to these churches that are two thirds empty. That's not particularly life giving either. So ah where masses are being held, the number of masses are certainly a primary consideration in journey of faith.
00:15:37
Speaker
But again, not to be solely mass centric, even though that is our source and summit to put, to look at evangelization and engagement in all of our ministries in our parishes.
00:15:50
Speaker
So looking at then, I mean, some churches might not have Sunday mass, some churches that have had Sunday mass.
Innovative Uses of Church Buildings
00:15:58
Speaker
So are we just effectively closing them?
00:16:02
Speaker
No, no, not necessarily. The, the journey in faith
00:16:09
Speaker
mission, he there's no churches being identified for closure in this entire process. oh We do know that, you know does that mean that in the future we, we won't have some buildings that will be closed? Well,
00:16:23
Speaker
of course that's going to be a reality But ah the way the journey in faith is designed, it's to allow the people in the parishes to help with those decisions. ah Archbishop has ah tried to not have a top-down push or shove of of all the things that need to change. Instead, he's giving models and then asking for feedback.
00:16:52
Speaker
And so ah church buildings that remain open or closed, that's something that's going to be talked about at the grassroots. So ah the expectation is as the new pastorates are ah are designed or the models are finalized and we and we eventually know which churches will be ah in a pastorate, the expectation is that over time,
00:17:14
Speaker
they will become a single parish with multiple church buildings within it. And then the people of that new parish, over time, they'll have to assess their resources and and determine if they can support their ministries and their and their' church buildings. And you know they'll know their budget. And so that's going to take some time and it's going to take some local discernment and the new family will have to come together and have those conversations And ah we, you know, we we think that's just the better way to go on on you what churches are remaining open for the future.
Creative Outreach Opportunities
00:17:53
Speaker
Also, I might just add, there seems to me an opportunity to really think creatively about some of our church buildings. Yeah, as you said, some may they may decide some pastorates that become parishes may decide their church. Some church buildings aren't sustainable.
00:18:09
Speaker
But those church buildings, but they may decide, too, that there's a way to creatively think about these church buildings, I think, as sort of missionary outposts, right? That and while they may not have Sunday Masses, right, that they gather in maybe the neighboring town to have Sunday Masses, maybe their church during the week can still be a place of of outreach, right?
00:18:29
Speaker
Whether it's that they're running different forms of outreach, right? um With you know food pantries or whatnot, it could still be a place of faith formation, potentially, descending ah depending on what they decide to do with their faith formation programs.
00:18:40
Speaker
There could be other experiences of prayer, Liturgy of the Hours, ah Eucharistic Adoration, Praise and Worship Nights, Bible studies that have maybe a prayerful Lectio Divina component.
00:18:52
Speaker
um That can be, along this idea of evangelization, other opportunities to invite perhaps non-Catholics, people unchurched into. That could be maybe a step in to connect to the Catholic community. Because I know right now, I think sometimes people think the only thing we Catholics have to invite people to is Sunday Mass, and sometimes for non-Catholics.
00:19:11
Speaker
if their first experience with Catholic prayer is mass, that can sometimes be a little intimidating or overwhelming if they're, you know, everyone seems to know what's going on. They're standing, they're sitting, they're standing, sitting and saying all these words that, that they don't know.
00:19:25
Speaker
ah So, so I do see, I think there's an opportunity and want to invite listeners and parishes and priests to, you know, maybe have some, some, I think there's an opportunity for some creative forms of outreach and evangelization because that's what it's all about.
00:19:40
Speaker
so Yes. And it's important to remember that, you know, if a church in these new pastorates isn't identified as having Sunday mass on the weekends, it can still um have weddings and baptisms celebrated there.
00:19:54
Speaker
Funerals for loved ones can still be. held there. Weekly Masses, a weekday Mass is also a possibility. And that will be determined by the the new ah pastor and the staff there at those locations once those new pastorates are formed.
00:20:12
Speaker
This is all, um we've got some really good reasons about why we're doing this and ah why pastoral planning is necessary. And um honestly, to have priests not need to run around anymore.
00:20:23
Speaker
um However, all this is, if we're gonna be making pastor, it's going from 65 to I think 27 is what you said. I almost need a map in front of me to like try to figure out how how all these lines are gonna be drawn or what's gonna be connected. um how How are the pastorates going to be formed and how are you deciding that?
Feedback on Pastorate Maps and Models
00:20:44
Speaker
So on um September 2nd, all of the proposed pastorate maps and models were released on our Journey in Faith website. So people can go there now.
00:20:55
Speaker
and see all of the materials. And there's a plethora um of materials. So the proposals are just that. No final decisions have been made about the grouping of who is going to be together.
00:21:09
Speaker
So if people haven't had the opportunity to go to the website yet, they'll go and they'll see an option A for each parish, an option B. Some parishes have an option C. But this is a time of feedback from the people. We put together these proposals simply to have people have something to react to. It would be hard if every single parish was trying to start from scratch.
00:21:31
Speaker
So these are just models, just proposals for people to react to. And currently ongoing right now in September, we're having regional meetings where people can learn more and the information that's on the website and all of those maps will be unpacked.
00:21:47
Speaker
But if you haven't gone to the website, we have maps of the entire archdiocese. We have maps of what we're calling regional planning areas, RPAs. And those are just geographical groupings that we're using for initial planning purposes.
00:22:03
Speaker
um And so people can be looking at those. There are spreadsheets. There are videos you can listen to to walk you through the spreadsheets and those maps.
00:22:14
Speaker
So just a real plethora of information. And if people haven't yet had the opportunity to see Archbishop Zincula's video, um which was released on sep September 2nd,
00:22:27
Speaker
launching this initiative, I would just really urge you to go see that and to go view that video. It's really heartfelt. Not only is he talking about what Journey in Faith is, but he also is recalling his own family history about his great-grandparents that came and his parish, his home parish that had been merged.
00:22:49
Speaker
So we'd like you to to go look at all of that. but that's the first part of the process. So the materials are all there. We're hoping people are joining um these September meetings. We have 34 of them that we are doing in 23 days across the entire archdiocese.
00:23:07
Speaker
um if If you haven't attended one and there's yet one in your area, um you we need you to register um for those and you can find that on the Journey in Faith website. But The focus of those September meetings is an opportunity for you to prepare personally for the next two meetings, which are super important. So the September meetings aren't Q&A meetings or open mic meetings. It's an opportunity to to have everything unpacked for you and then to focus on how we each personally can utilize prayer as we are discerning and thinking about our responses at our local October and November meetings.
00:23:48
Speaker
And also um to have more information and background about synodal listening. And synodal listening is that opportunity to, you know, we each come to things with our own opinions and our own thoughts, but it's really important that we take time in prayer to discern and think about, you know, what are my opinions? Where are my thoughts? Where are they coming from?
00:24:12
Speaker
and more importantly, what is the Holy Spirit calling me who to do and act upon in this time and place. And Sonora listening is speaking from a place of informed information and and prayerful discernment.
00:24:27
Speaker
But just as important as speaking is also that um idea of listening and listening to one another. You know, the Holy Spirit speaks to each of us.
00:24:39
Speaker
um And so this opportunity in October and November to be meeting locally with your parishes, or in some cases, clusters or linkages, to really hear from your fellow parishioners. What's on their mind?
00:24:52
Speaker
What's on their heart? How are they feeling um about this process? So September is background. Then your the October meetings are held at your local parishes.
00:25:03
Speaker
And we know that'll be a time of a lot of strong feelings, opinions, emotions, and that's to be expected. you know, people love their faith. So if they're not passionate about their faith, what would what is there to be, you know, passionate about?
00:25:19
Speaker
So October meetings will be that chance to really hear from one another within your local parish. And then the November meeting um Certainly there will continue to be, I'm sure, unpacking of questions and thoughts and feelings.
00:25:32
Speaker
But then it's really kind of looking forward at, okay, we've looked at these models. What do we like about model a What do we not? How about b And then thinking about, oh gosh, you know what?
00:25:45
Speaker
What about option D, E, or F? What are our ideas? And throughout this process, you don't need to wait until the October and November meetings to offer your feedback.
00:25:56
Speaker
um On our website, we have a feedback form and anyone at any time can go on there and offer feedback, suggestions, questions.
Data-Driven Decision Making
00:26:05
Speaker
We're monitoring those daily as we're updating FAQs on our website too.
00:26:12
Speaker
And so we would just encourage people that if you haven't made it to a September meeting to to go if you're able, but most importantly, we really want people to attend those October and November meetings.
00:26:24
Speaker
I really like how you've used the language of proposals and multiple proposals, plural, rather than ah orders or dictation. I mean, this isn't a top-down, blind military order-following process. This sounds like we're a we're a family, um and everyone gets the opportunity to ah ah speak their mind, their feelings, and their heart, and their beliefs. um Who's going to read all that, though?
00:26:51
Speaker
i mean, that's a lot of feedback.
00:26:54
Speaker
So we do have a process that is being set up and it is ah a lot of feedback, but um there'll be an army of people ah to go through it all and, you know, categorize responses. You know, a lot of people are going to come up with the same ideas and so they'll be categorized, but, but literally we have.
00:27:14
Speaker
weeks and weeks of combing through the data. Archbishop has promised he wants all of the feedback reviewed. He wants to hear from everyone that that clicks on that button and leaves feedback on the website. So um yes, it but it sounds daunting and it's a lot of work, but that's what we've committed to doing and and it will be done.
00:27:36
Speaker
um These pastors, one one thing I would say to folks is they go to these September meetings and And for the first time, they they go to the website, perhaps, and they're reviewing those videos.
00:27:48
Speaker
To keep in mind that ah we are not blazing a new trail. Other dioceses have gone down this road before. And ah we interviewed several dioceses and asked them,
00:28:01
Speaker
what you know What were the best practices? What were the good? What were the bad? and And to help us to pick out the good and apply them to the journey in faith. And that was extremely helpful.
00:28:13
Speaker
And so ah when you look at these pastorates, understand that there's a lot of data behind them. And that's where we had to start. But that data was derived from interviews that we had with other diocese.
00:28:27
Speaker
And so ah the size of those pastorates and the parameters that we're applying and and the framework, it comes from um those who have gone before us and and the best practices that they gave to us.
00:28:43
Speaker
And building on that also, these proposals that you guys put forward, I mean, you you mentioned at the beginning that you guys have been living this journey in faith thing for a year, right? For most of us, this has just been unfolding in the last couple months. But I just want to highlight those those proposals you put forward with the lines and stuff. I mean, those aren't you guys didn't just like willy-nilly draw lines on a map like that.
00:29:07
Speaker
There was a lot of data and a lot of research that's gone into this. Right. So so ah including, as you already mentioned, talking other dioceses and what they've done. But also just I just want to highlight the ah the amount of legwork you guys have done in the number crunching, the ah distances and and analysis. And ah so i don't know if you want to say a further word about that, about where Yeah, no, it's that process.
00:29:29
Speaker
and we're And we're making all of that data available on the Journey in Faith website. So ah like you said, Father, travel distances. when When we met with these other dioceses, the nationwide average is that ah you should design your pastorate so that 80% of the people can get to church with ah twenty minutes within 20 minutes or less driving time.
00:29:56
Speaker
And so we when we were planning the ah mass locations using all the parameters, ah one of those parameters was driving time. And so we hit 97% on our model. So if you know you know we're far exceeding the national average on that.
00:30:16
Speaker
But not only not only driving time, but church capacities, ah trying to make sure that We have ah ah enough masses for the people, but enough masses so that our churches are full.
00:30:29
Speaker
And we had yeah when remember that, you know like Kim said, you know every every Sunday is like Easter. you know everyone ah packed ah packed house with everyone singing is just a Holy Spirit moment. So that's what we want for our for our communities.
00:30:45
Speaker
But yes, ah so there's a lot of data in there, but the important piece of this is that The data drove the pastorate um designs. You know, we were able to say, what if we did this based on geography and highways and affinity between churches and cemeteries and schools and all of these things?
00:31:12
Speaker
What if this were a pastorate? Well, then we ran the data against it to see if it fell within our parameters. And that's how these pastorates were created, these models were created.
00:31:24
Speaker
But now it needs to go from the head, the data in the head to the heart. And that's why we're pushing this all all the way out to the parishes now. We need the people whose hearts are in it, in their local parishes to give us their feedback.
00:31:41
Speaker
we we This is not a top-down shove. The decisions have not been made. There's multiple options that are designed, but as Kim said, we may end up with a third or a fourth or fifth designed by the people who bring it back to the archdiocese with their hearts, and that's what we need to hear.
00:32:00
Speaker
I'm reminded of the words of our Lord when he said, ah be as innocent as doves and wise as serpents. I think those are flipped when he said them, but um i it seems like we are using data and wisdom and facts and even math.
00:32:16
Speaker
And ah drive times um to to try to solve a problem or rather an opportunity. But then we're also as innocent as doves as, i mean, it seems like the agenda here is evangelization and Catholic Church growth and um more souls for Christ. so That's great.
00:32:36
Speaker
And I like that you highlight. Yes. What what the what looks good on paper with the data, sometimes the lived experience is something different. And that's why we need the the feedback and wisdom of the people. So especially for listeners hearing this, you know, that.
00:32:50
Speaker
um This isn't a foregone or pregone conclusion to, I mean, appreciate the the research that's gone into it, but but you all have the lived experience and the Archdiocese is very genuinely ah seeking feedback from you all as these are presented to you.
00:33:05
Speaker
so ah So just ah to highlight that. So We've been talking about these pastorates. So when are these, when when is the decision going to be made on these pastorates? When are these going into effect?
Timeline for Pastorate Implementation
00:33:18
Speaker
What's kind of the the timeline here?
00:33:20
Speaker
So um the timeline is that all of the feedback, all of those meetings will take place and be submitted by November 21st. And then during the month of December, we're going to be doing this deep dive and analyzing data.
00:33:38
Speaker
um categorizing data, looking at it by, you know, parish, proposed pastorate. And then during that time, there's a group called the core team.
00:33:49
Speaker
And the core team is Archbishop, the Vicar General, a parish priest, Deacon Keith and myself, and then also the chief of staff at the archdiocese. So the six of us, we meet multiple times, excuse me, a week, usually. And and so we'll be continuing to do that and and even in longer, more marathon sessions, I'm sure.
00:34:14
Speaker
So we will be working through all of that and then coming up with suggested revisions to proposals. It might be some parishes, it might be their A option, some it might be their B, some it might be D, E or F that they have come up with.
00:34:30
Speaker
And it it really is going to be um a difficult process because if you can imagine this is going to be like a giant jigsaw puzzle. And so even under the best of circumstances, if if each parish communicated um through their parish meetings in October and November and the final report that'll be prepared by their local journey and faith team, to be able to fit this all together.
00:34:57
Speaker
um so so it's gonna be a challenge. So the core committee will be working on that. We'll be creating new maps then And then that will be going before a group called the Planning Commission. So the Planning Commission is a group of 20 people.
00:35:14
Speaker
It includes priests, deacons, a religious sister, and laity from across the archdiocese. And so they will be looking at this next version of maps.
00:35:27
Speaker
So we anticipate that that'll be a few months of going back and forth and trying to, you know, tweak, adjust um that next set of proposals and to be given to Archbishop. And so um he needs some time to pray about this and to discern and to to study all of those.
00:35:46
Speaker
But we are anticipating by late spring, 2026, um there will be a public announcement. And at that time, we're anticipating it will be who is in each pastorate, which um churches within the pastorate will be hosting weekend mass, how many masses can there be on a weekend within that pastorate, also who will be the pastor of that pastorate, along with any and all parochial vicars. So it will be a
00:36:20
Speaker
big announcement when it happens. We're we're hoping, um you know, that we're on track for that to be by late spring. But again, this is Holy Spirit guided. um and he but i had somebody earlier today who said, yeah, Kim, but isn't this just all really decided?
00:36:37
Speaker
And i I held up, and I know our our listeners can't see this, but our host will, ah this this schedule here And, you know, we we have to allow room for the Holy Spirit. And and so we have windows of discernment and and reflection and revision. But that would that's the plan that will be announced by late spring. And then that will all take place.
00:36:59
Speaker
um It's anticipated the second Tuesday of July, which would be a typical time when priests would change assignments. So not all priests will necessarily be moving as part of this process, but that's a whole nother um track of decisions that are having be made alongside um the journey of faith pastorates.
00:37:21
Speaker
And then my understanding, then that following six, so these new pastorates will go into effect in July, and then there will be kind of a following six months, right, of further conversations of how do we make this work now within the pastorate, correct? Yeah, exactly.
00:37:37
Speaker
see on July, around July 14th, when the new pass rates would take effect, we're going to be having proposed six month interim mass schedules.
00:37:51
Speaker
And we think that we'll get this all right. um But we want to allow um room for finesse with the number of masses that are being held in the pastorates.
00:38:03
Speaker
um So once that's all determined, people will live that reality for for six months um with the the new pastor that comes in. And then ah you're exactly right, Father Earlywine.
00:38:16
Speaker
um next fall, the focus is shifting not now that we know who's working together, it's how are we going to work together.
Collaboration in New Pastorates
00:38:24
Speaker
And in my mind, that's the most exciting part of all of this.
00:38:29
Speaker
So we're doing these groupings that these groupings will be locked in for the next 25 plus years. And now we can really get at the heart of those two other priorities of evangelization and leadership development about how can these pastorates work collaboratively, the parishes within the pastorates to work collaboratively.
00:38:48
Speaker
What are the strengths of each? What do they have to share? maybe What are the gaps? What are things that they could could work together on? Whether it be staffing, ministry, all kinds of things.
00:39:02
Speaker
So we know that becoming a pastorate isn't like flipping a switch. There's all kinds of details, but that's the focus of next fall. So in September, there'll be regional meetings outlining all the various areas of pastorate life that need to be considered.
00:39:19
Speaker
And then again, there'll be local meetings that'll be held in your own parishes in October and November. And that will all come in culmination to a plan that each pastorate will provide um for Archbishop for his final approval about all of those various details.
00:39:38
Speaker
So this is a work not of, it certainly that involves the head, involves the heart, but also prayer, right? We talked, as you just said, Kim, this isn't a foregone conclusion. This is an ongoing process of discernment. Yes, we're using data.
00:39:52
Speaker
Yes, we're listening to people's stories and their lived experience of it, but that prayer and the Holy Spirit needs to be part of it. So um thank you, both of you, for all your work in this.
00:40:03
Speaker
I guess a final thing maybe to end with is I know for a lot of people, um they may initially only see what they're losing, right? They see it like maybe my church isn't going to have Sunday mass anymore. Maybe, ah whatever, you know, we, we used to just have pastor to ourselves. Now we're sharing a pastor, whatever it is.
00:40:23
Speaker
And, and of course there's, there's, whenever there's loss and change, there's a sense of grief in the process that and we want to respect that. But I want to end on the note of, um, I think what helps us go through that is being able to fix our eyes and,
00:40:36
Speaker
where we're going, you know, and seeing the, the, not just what is lost, but, um but what is gained on the other side. So I guess I just throw it out to each of you as kind of a final word.
00:40:46
Speaker
What would you say, where is the hope in this? Where's the good thing? If someone's feeling really discouraged about this, what would be kind of your, your encouraging or hopeful word? Yeah, I can start and I'm, and Kim, you can certainly follow. You know, one thing, ah someone came to me the other day and, and asked just such a question, you know, how do I find joy in this if my local church doesn't have Sunday Mass anymore?
00:41:13
Speaker
and um And I reminded the person that we need to realize that that we don't belong to that that building, the church with the small C. We belong to the universal church that that has a big C. And as we come together and and join with these other parishes,
00:41:33
Speaker
we will realize that we are a part of this this universal church. We live here in the 21st century in a archdiocese that's designed in the 1800s.
00:41:47
Speaker
Our churches are spaced far enough apart where most people could get to church in 20 minutes riding a buggy that's not air-conditioned or heated. And so now we're, of course, in this this new world.
00:42:00
Speaker
And so we have to step back. We have to look at ourselves as being a part of a much bigger thing than a local building. ah Many of our or towns that are to the west of our archdiocese, they realize this already.
00:42:17
Speaker
Not many of them have churches in every building in every city. But I think the benefit will be that um just like we saw when you when you see a major event happen in most um nations, you'll see a unity among the people that will come out of it.
00:42:38
Speaker
And so that's one of the benefits we're hoping to see. We expect to see that ah we will not see a big drop in people coming to church. In fact, what will happen is people will go to these new, fuller, vibrant liturgies, and they'll go tell others about it, and others will come.
00:42:56
Speaker
And I had one person ask me, well, gosh, you know, What if that comes true? and And now we need more masses. I said, by gosh, we're going to have more masses. you know that's that's ah That's a great problem to have.
00:43:10
Speaker
who yeah And similarly, when I'm talking with people and when I'm, you know, just personally in my own prayer, praying for this initiative and these efforts, um I recognize that some will see this as a loss.
Opportunities Amidst Change and Challenges
00:43:29
Speaker
um and And I understand that. I actually live in a very small town of which our church is the center of the community. And, you know, um I'm not sure that there will be mass here every weekend.
00:43:43
Speaker
But um as special as buildings are, as much as our grandparents and great grandparents, you know, sacrificed to build these buildings, they're special um and they're treasured places.
00:43:57
Speaker
but our Catholic faith isn't about buildings. It's about Jesus. It's about community. It's about the sacraments. And so at the end of the day, i want to be where Jesus is.
00:44:11
Speaker
i want to be where there's inspiring sacraments and, you know, great worship and all kinds of offerings for children and adults and service opportunities. Like I want to be all in wherever that is engaging.
00:44:28
Speaker
And, you know, one of the things is many families, you you talk to most anyone and every most people have had family members that were raised Catholic that maybe have fallen away from the faith.
00:44:40
Speaker
And we know that if we do nothing, we're continuing to lose over 2% of mass attendees year after year in the archdiocese. And so we have to do something and we want to do this to draw more people in And so whatever we have to do to have people um grow closer in their faith, I mean, those of us that have had friends or families that have fallen away from the faith, like, don't we want something inspiring and attractive for them to be able to, um you know, come to and participate in and for them ah to be able to experience the sacraments.
00:45:19
Speaker
So um this is, this is change and changes is always hard. And, and we acknowledge that, that this isn't easy work or for anyone.
00:45:33
Speaker
um But and and all parishes will be impacted in some way. But at the end of the day, I'm always focused on the why are we doing this? And that's what gives me hope. That's what I find inspiration in.
00:45:45
Speaker
and Kim, you talk about hope. I would would also mention that when we interviewed ah these different dioceses, we heard the same message over and over that, A, no one really wanted to do it because they knew it would be hard.
00:46:02
Speaker
B, it was hard. But C, it was the best thing they ever did. When they came out the other side, um they so they saw that all that hard work and all of all the things that were hard to go through ah generated a much greater benefit in the end, and they were in a much better place in the end. And so that gave us hope when we started this a year ago, and we knew that the end would be good. And if we, we let the Holy spirit lead us and, and keep rooted in prayer that, that this will be a journey that will end in a positive place.
00:46:42
Speaker
That's fantastic. um Yeah, this is a lot. And yes, it is. ah This is an audio ah podcast. So yeah we we can't really see um the ah actual data and everything else, but it's all there. And in the description for this episode, you'll have lots of links to ah click through and occupy your time with.
00:47:03
Speaker
um And even though we have shortened it in our texting and email correspondence to GIF, and we've made every peanut butter joke possible, so don't even try it. um This is, in fact, a journey in faith. um It's modeled, the logo itself is modeled after the um the disciples journeying with Jesus on the road to Emmaus and then finding his presence in the breaking of the bread. So um as you refer to this and as you see it written, just keep in mind that this is an actual journey, an adventure, if you will, ah in faith.
00:47:33
Speaker
And um we're here for it. So thank you so much, Kim Hermsen and Deacon Keith McHarrher for joining us today. This was a pleasure and um very eye-opening.
00:47:44
Speaker
I ah hope thank you all for listening and I will see you in the Eucharist. Thank you.