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4: What Is A Secular Franciscan?
49 Plays10 days ago
with Rosie Guerrero and Deacon Jim Wolf
Ms. G is a theology teacher at Columbus High School in Waterloo and an Associate of the Sisters of St. Francis in Dubuque.
Osfdbq.org
“My God and My All: The Life of Saint Francis of Assisi” by Elizabeth Goudge, 1959
Deacon Jim Wolf, OFS, is a deacon for the Archdiocese of Dubuque, assigned to Epiphany Parish in Mason City. Jim and his wife, Kris, have been married for 26 years and have two adult children.
St. Bonaventure Fraternity, Mason City, Iowa https://sites.google.com/view/ofsbonaventureia/home
Queen of Peace Region (IA, MN, ND, SD, NE) https://queenofpeaceregion.org/
Secular Franciscan Order https://www.secularfranciscansusa.org/
"St Francis of Assisi: A Biography" by Omer Englebert
1. The First Order – Friars Minor
• Founded by St. Francis in 1209 (approved by Pope Honorius III in 1223).
• These are the original Franciscan friars who live a life of poverty, prayer, and fraternity while serving the Church through preaching, missions, education, and service to the poor.
• The First Order is divided into three main branches today:
o Order of Friars Minor (OFM) – the largest branch.
o Order of Friars Minor Conventual (OFM Conv) – more urban-based, historically involved in intellectual and pastoral ministry.
o Order of Friars Minor Capuchin (OFM Cap) – a reform branch emphasizing simplicity and austerity.
2. The Second Order – Poor Clares
• Founded by St. Clare of Assisi in 1212, under the inspiration and guidance of St. Francis.
• A contemplative order of nuns, living in cloistered communities with a strong emphasis on prayer, silence, and poverty.
• Their life is dedicated to intercessory prayer and spiritual support for the Church and the world.
3. The Third Order – Secular Franciscans and Third Order Regular
• Established by St. Francis for laypeople and secular clergy who wished to live the Franciscan spirit without withdrawing from the world.
• Two main expressions today:
o Secular Franciscan Order (OFS) – for laypeople and diocesan clergy who live in the world, embracing a rule of life centered on prayer, simplicity, and works of mercy.
o Third Order Regular (TOR) – religious men and women who take vows and live in community, focusing on education, health care, missions, and charitable works.
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Overview
00:00:14
Speaker
Hello everyone, my name is Father Jacob Rouse and I'm the pastor of Notre Dame Parish in Cresco, Iowa. And and I'm Father Kevin Earlywine, pastor of St. Patrick's in Hampton and St. Mary's in Ackley.
00:00:25
Speaker
Welcome to the DeBucharistic Revival Podcast. Because that's the name we're going with. Father Kevin, what happened last time? We had a very exciting episode. Oh yeah, for those who haven't listened, um our first three episodes were kind of all about Journey in Faith.
00:00:41
Speaker
um and so we talked about the vision of journey in faith we talked about evangelization which is one of the priorities of journey in faith and we talked about uh the pastoral plan one of the other priorities journey in faith so we encourage you ah if you haven't listened to those go listen to those three um they're kind of connected but today ah we're shifting gears a little bit what are we talking about uh today uh this episode it should be being released in the beginning of october october 4th is the feast day of one of my favorite saints St. Francis of Assisi. so
00:01:13
Speaker
um So, in fact, today we're going to be talking about Franciscan spirituality, but, ah Father Jacob, did you know, i mean, many times when people think of Franciscan friars, they think of the guys with the brown hoods and think you have to join a monastery and such, but did you know that right here in the archdiocese, we have lay people that are part of Franciscan spirituality groups right here in the archdiocese.
Franciscan Spirituality Overview
00:01:36
Speaker
You don't have to run away, join a monastery to... ah join in Franciscan spirituality.
00:01:42
Speaker
Wow, I didn't know that. Right here in the Archdiocese. And here I thought he just loved animals a lot. Yep, there's a lot more to St. Francis than that. so No, well, I think we're going to learn about it. so it's a hidden gem right here in our Archdiocese, and probably all over the world, actually.
00:01:58
Speaker
I love St. Francis, Father Jacob, because as you may know, as you recall, and some of our listeners may or may not know, but I spent a little time with ah some Franciscans myself, so that spirituality resonates with me. And I only in the last year learned we have some spirituality Franciscan spirituality groups in the Archdiocese and fascinated me so much that like, that's kind of what inspired me. One of the things that inspired me to relaunch ah with you, Dubuqueristic Revival Season Two.
00:02:24
Speaker
So I was like, man, we have these neat things that exist in our Archdiocese that I didn't even know about. And so others probably don't either. So we wanted to share the word. So today, I think we have some guests, some special guests with us to talk about these Franciscan
Guests Introduction: Deacon Jim Wolfe and Rosie Guerrero
00:02:39
Speaker
spirituality groups. So we have Deacon Jim Wolfe and Rosie Guerrero. So invite you to introduce yourselves, ah who you are and what where you're at, what you do in the Archdiocese.
00:02:50
Speaker
Go ahead, Rosie. All right. Thank you, Deacon. I'm Rosa Guerrero. I am in Cedar Falls, Iowa. I actually teach at Columbus High School in Waterloo. I teach theology there. And I am part of the Sisters of St. Francis Franciscan Associates in Dubuque.
00:03:09
Speaker
I'm Deacon Jim Wolfe, and I live in Mason City. And I'm a Deacon in the Archdiocese of Dubuque, for the Archdiocese of Dubuque. and I am a member of the Secular Franciscan Order.
00:03:22
Speaker
ah Secular. Yes, secular. Like secular music, right? Yes. So when we talk about secular, basically, usually what people think of is non-religious or non-church.
00:03:38
Speaker
In this sense, secular means lay people and diocesan clergy that are not in a religious order.
The Three Orders of Franciscans Explained
00:03:51
Speaker
So it's a little bit more specific oh differentiation with that. Yeah, so to reference the image Father Kevin made earlier is that when we think of a Franciscan or a monk of any kind, we think of someone who lives maybe in a big castle in Italy and wears robes.
00:04:10
Speaker
So you're saying that there's different like levels or, I guess, intensities of being a Franciscan. that correct? and there are Franciscan friars, and they live in friaries, and they are more in the communities traditionally than the monasteries were.
00:04:29
Speaker
So when Francis of Assisi founds the Franciscan order, and actually we'll talk a little bit more about it later, but his idea was to live in in the community,
00:04:44
Speaker
in your friar, obviously, but during the day they will go out and do things in the community and then it night come back and pray together and and eat together and have fellowship together. The first order of business is there is a first order of Franciscans.
00:04:58
Speaker
There is. There are three orders of Franciscans and the Franciscan order was founded by a lay person. ah Francis of Assisi was not a priest. ah He, after,
00:05:12
Speaker
um the order was oh recognized by the Pope. um They did ordain him a deacon so he could preach at masses.
00:05:23
Speaker
But Francis himself started as a lay movement. So there's three orders. The first order are friars, and they can either be priests or lay brothers.
00:05:36
Speaker
And the reason he he used the term friar was the idea of being humble and being lesser. So friar would be like ah a little brother or a little father.
00:05:48
Speaker
If you look at the Italian from it, the second order is our nuns, N-U-N-S, not having none. And those are the four clairs that were founded by Claire of Assisi and they are actually cloistered.
00:06:03
Speaker
So if they live in a monastery and they are cloistered in the monastery, then we have the third order and the third order is divided into two.
Life as a Secular Franciscan
00:06:13
Speaker
The first is part of it is the third order regular, and that would include friars and lay brothers who live in friaries.
00:06:21
Speaker
And that's where we get all our religious Franciscan sisters, too. So, for example, the Dubuque Franciscan sisters. And then the other part of that is the secular Franciscans who started life as the brothers and sisters of penance and and it eventually evolved into secular Franciscans.
00:06:42
Speaker
And so what that means is that we live a normal life. We live with our families in our communities, and then we come together and meet in community and pray together and learn together and have fellowship.
00:06:57
Speaker
So that's what we do as Secular Franciscans.
00:07:03
Speaker
Wow, so that's that's ah something actually i have forgotten that St. Francis started out as a lay person. And just for the benefit of the audience, a lay person is someone who's not ordained a priest.
00:07:13
Speaker
That means probably a majority of you listening right now, you are all lay people. And that's where we kind of get the um the phrase in layman's terms, not that you're lesser or anything, but it just kind of goes to show that St. Francis was a regular guy, just like all of us are just regular people that God calls to something.
00:07:35
Speaker
Yes, he started he started this as a personal faith journey. um And i we probably aren't going to get into depth, but with his life, and you can read about it, there's many, many books about about him and biographies about him.
00:07:52
Speaker
But he started it, he had a conversion experience. And this conversion experience kept drawing him closer and closer into it. And he had about three years or so of this conversion experience before he started gathering followers, or they actually started gathering to him. So just to recap, there's the first order, which are Franciscan friars, like you imagine, living in the community in a friary, praying and working and cooking.
00:08:19
Speaker
Then you've got the second order, which is the poor clairs, and these are all female and they're nuns, N-U-N-S. Then you've got the third order, which is people who are living as Francis envisioned, but out blended in into the world, right? Well, well there's the two parts. There's a third order regular who are the sisters and the friars, and then there's the third order secular who are the lay people and clergy, diastasis clergy, who are secular Franciscans. So One diocesan clergyman from France who has ties with Dubuque was a part of the secular Franciscan order.
00:08:58
Speaker
And I'll give you guess if you want to guess who that is. Is it St. John Marie Vianney? Yes, it is. ah Wow. Ten points for Father Kevin.
00:09:09
Speaker
ah Yeah. yes Yes. And the secular Franciscan order was was seen as a response in Italy and in France and Spain and the other parts of Europe and the United States as a response to this new modern modernism in society and this moving away from the church because now you have people that were in the church or that were living in society that were still a so part of an order.
00:09:42
Speaker
And the first order and the third order the sisters and the friars, they go out and a lot of the friars will serve the poor or have some other type of mission where they are serving people that are less fortunate.
00:09:59
Speaker
So there's a balance between what Francis wanted was a balance between the first, they had the first 12 guys. And then after I think a year, year, year and a half, they started getting more and more, but they would go work during the day.
00:10:13
Speaker
They would either beg for their food or they would simply go and and work for a farmer or somebody just as a day laborer and beg for food. And then they come back and like I said, they would pray together, that they would eat together and they lived in community.
00:10:28
Speaker
Yeah, so I understand that there's so there's three. We have three of these secular Franciscan groups right here in our own archdiocese. Can you say a little bit about them? And then how did you, Deacon Jim Wolf, become affiliated with the one you're affiliated with?
00:10:43
Speaker
Yes, we have three fraternities in the Archdiocese of Dubuque, and then there's two more that are down in the Des Moines area. So we have one in Dubuque. We have one in Waterloo-Cedar Falls, which is St. Mary fraternity, and that's the one I started with about two and a half years ago.
00:11:02
Speaker
And then we have a new group in Mason City, St. Bonaventure, fraternity. And we were founded by ah long-term members of St. Mary's that had been driving down to Cedar Falls for years and were living up in the Cerro Gordo County and Mason City area.
00:11:23
Speaker
I got started. I got a cold call from one of the people in in the, before Montaventure was officially founded and from the St. Mary fraternity. And they were looking for, um,
00:11:36
Speaker
ah clergy They were looking for clergy in the archdiocese to serve as a spiritual advisor. And you could think of that as a chaplain. And the the first choice for spiritual advisors are the friars.
00:11:50
Speaker
But the ascetician deacons and priests can also be them. And so can a secular Franciscan if you really can't find anybody. But that is our connection that helps us connect with the Franciscan order.
00:12:03
Speaker
So I tried it out. I kept coming back. I have some Franciscan blood in my family. One of my mom's cousins, Sister Janet May, is a Dubuque Franciscan sister.
00:12:14
Speaker
So I grew up knowing about that. And then as I was learning about this and talking with my mom and and emailing Sister Janet, I found out there's another oh eight or nine Franciscan, Dubuque Franciscan sisters in the family if you go back another three generations. So I'd be the fourth generation Franciscan in my mom's family tree.
00:12:37
Speaker
and And as a deacon, it called to me by, you know, the deacon, one of the things we do is we help people that are poor. We help people that need help.
00:12:49
Speaker
And there's a lot of, the deaconate has a lot of overlap with Franciscan spirituality.
00:12:59
Speaker
Yes, because the deaconate has a lot to do with humility and service, as did St. Francis. There's some, some have speculated if St. Francis himself was ever ordained a deacon or not, um there's some unclear things, but I've heard whether he was or wasn't that he, his spirituality very much embodies that sort of diaconal spirit.
00:13:19
Speaker
Yeah. Stooping to wash the feet of the disciples. Yes. and It was all about humility for him and being humble and serving other people. He was probably, they think he was ordained a deacon because he could preach at mass.
00:13:33
Speaker
They don't, they lost the, the details of where and when have been lost to time. oh But yeah, I mean, there is there's a lot to St. Francis that's more of him and out in nature.
00:13:45
Speaker
He was praying and fasting and he had these encounters with lepers in and around Assisi and he was serving the lepers and that's when he had one of his first transformative experiences.
00:14:00
Speaker
oh So he as he was doing that, that eventually, got worked into a way of life um over time.
00:14:11
Speaker
yeah And and the the big part about being a secular Franciscan is we have the saying, gospel to life and life to gospel. So what we tried to do is is we live the gospel in a Franciscan manner according to our rule.
00:14:25
Speaker
So we have a rule for this Franciscan order. It was approved ah by the Pope. The last version was approved by Pope Paul who's also a secular Franciscan.
00:14:37
Speaker
as well They're everywhere. They're everywhere. it was John XXIII and the six popes before that, going back to Leo XIII. Wow. So it, and I mean, this is an ancient order. So there's been, if you ever try to look at the history of the whole Franciscan order, there's all this um stuff going on in different places.
00:14:57
Speaker
But the secular Franciscan order, it's part of the third order. So it is global, just like the other two orders. Mm-hmm. So we actually have our our local fraternities and that's our, where we um practice our way of life. You know, we support each other, and pray together and have food and fellowship together.
00:15:14
Speaker
And then there's the regional level and then the national level and the international level. So I've been able to go to ah two regional meetings up in the twin cities at a Franciscan retreat house.
00:15:25
Speaker
And so it's a neat opportunity to see, to meet other secular Franciscans and talk with them, how, how it's going in their fraternities and their lives. So there's much we could say about St. Francis and Franciscan spirituality.
00:15:40
Speaker
And that's interesting. Yeah. And we have these three secular Franciscan fraternities, I guess, is that the term within the Archdiocese? Three fraternities. You also mentioned, Deacon Jim Wolf, these Dubuque Franciscan sisters that you have some relatives who've been a part of.
00:15:56
Speaker
And this might be a good pivot then to Rosie, our other guests with us. She is an associate of the Dubuque Franciscan sisters. So sort of like these secular Franciscan groups, but maybe something a little different. So, ah so Rosie, why don't you tell us a little bit about ah the Franciscan group you're associated with? That's not one of these three secular Franciscan fraternities, but something else in the Franciscan family.
00:16:22
Speaker
Yeah, of course. I'm happy to. So I am a Franciscan associate with the Sisters of St. Francis in Dubuque, as you already mentioned. And the sisters, basically as an associate, you're you're tied to a religious order.
00:16:40
Speaker
You're walking with them, learning about their charisms, their spirituality. And so you, at least for me, um when I was invited to join the group,
00:16:54
Speaker
um it was a two-year process for us. And so what kind of just began as an invitation to learn more about St. Francis, learn about St. Clair over that two years with a group of people that I personally hadn't known at the time, um you know, has grown into a commitment to live out those charisms in my my daily life and embrace them.
00:17:22
Speaker
um Similar to what Deacon said, you know, living out the gospel regularly, um and just bringing that into who you are, building that spirituality, but also growing in community. I think that's kind of the tie there is just having that community, having that commonality of, you know, saints that we're drawn to because of the way they lived and their life, you know, and so, know,
00:17:52
Speaker
for me, yeah, it was two years, uh, as I mentioned before, I was invited. it was a and teacher that's now retired from Columbus. She, said, you know, you, you seem to live sort of that life already. And so you know, this might be something that you would enjoy.
00:18:09
Speaker
And so I just remember was, um, I say either 2017, um, theyre twenty seventeen um is I think when we started our group, it was myself, we had a sister, Meg Gummer from the Sisters of St. Francis there in Dubuque. She actually would drive to us. and then we had another associate who was one of their very first,
00:18:31
Speaker
if I remember correctly, she's been an associate for 30 years. and So they've been figuring this out and doing this for quite some time. um And it was myself, the teacher that invited me that's never retired, James Pat Wiss, and then two other folks who started out friends and ah They've since gotten married and so it's kind of a fun little journey on that.
00:18:55
Speaker
But we spent two years together. Sisters of St. Francis, they've put together what they call that Franciscan way of life. So it's kind of like a program so that those that choose to, you know, explore this as something that they might choose to incorporate into their life.
00:19:12
Speaker
um kind of all have the receiving the same formation, if you will. And so we spent two years learning about St. Francis, just talking, diving in, you know, those discussions.
00:19:26
Speaker
We can't learn everything, right? And that's part of the joy, i think, in being an associate is we all as a group decided to become associates in the fall of 2019.
00:19:41
Speaker
And so we were commissioned in Dubuque there with the sisters. So, you know, they were invited and there were several other associates. So we had our group in Waterloo, but then there are other areas within Diocese, even some over all way.
00:19:59
Speaker
to Western Iowa that have these groups that are going through the Franciscan way life. And so, you know, in that fall, we were commissioned, we make a yearly commitment.
00:20:12
Speaker
There's a contract that, you know, we essentially agree to because we are part of the religious order in a way. So we have what we call gatherings.
00:20:23
Speaker
So in the fall and in the spring, we get together, the associates invited to come out to the sisters there in Dubuque and spend the weekend with them. um We're learning about what is going on in the community.
00:20:38
Speaker
We've been a part of kind of this transition of, um we're, you know, our religious sisters are aging out and some of these orders, you know, what's the longevity there?
00:20:49
Speaker
So we've been ah part of that conversation and kind of um walked with them in that. So beyond kind of those gatherings with them, we as a ah smaller Franciscan Way of Life group that we started, we've added ah another person to our group who just went through the journey herself of choosing to become associates.
00:21:10
Speaker
So we gather once a month in community. We kind of have these readings that we go through or books that we'll read and kind of just discussions, but also, you know, how are we supporting each other and living out the values and the spirit of St. Francis.
00:21:26
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Wow. Yeah. but I have so many questions. This is really cool.
Community and Accountability in Spiritual Growth
00:21:34
Speaker
um The first thing I want to highlight is that you both talked about an invite or a cold call, um but you were both invited and someone within called without and and invited you to be in it. And I think that's really powerful. That's like how evangelization works. Check episode two.
00:21:52
Speaker
ah But what if if they already saw you living these things ordinarily, normally, why join? Like, why not just keep doing what you're doing and call it good?
00:22:04
Speaker
um I think, you know, ah as humans, we're social beings. We need each other. um we need accountability. We need support, especially in the spiritual life.
00:22:16
Speaker
So I think that was part of it. You know, we're growing in this together. We get to learn from each other, um gain different perspectives, especially because i think, you know,
00:22:28
Speaker
I would say that in our group, even it's like five, that regular together, we all probably are drawn to different aspects of who St. Francis was, right? Or or what called us in. And so, you know, we're just walking with each other as well.
00:22:46
Speaker
So I think the big part was that community aspect and just meeting people, you know, being in community with them. Hmm. And you also mentioned a commitment. And I think, I mean, whether you're entering into marriage or whether you're entering into priesthood or being a teacher, um there's there's honestly rules and commitments and boundaries with pretty much everything we do in life, even even a sport or a music hobby.
00:23:12
Speaker
um There's certain rules that we follow. And sounds like this is not just another hobby, but it sounds like that's some some formal commitment that that gives you meaning and gives you purpose.
00:23:24
Speaker
Yes, it's ah it's a it's a way of living your life. It's, um, and then the community helps support each other. So when Rosie was talking about her formation and everything, our program is, I mean, they're, we're kind of on parallel paths, I think.
00:23:41
Speaker
Um, and there's a formal, um, education process or journey where people are given an orientation and then,
00:23:53
Speaker
you move into the, after three months, and you move into the inquiry phase, and then eventually the candidacy phase. So eventually, after three months, nine months, and then a year and a half to to two or three years for candidacy, you can profess.
00:24:13
Speaker
And so I was welcomed into the order. And then about a little less than a year from now, I'll be able to do my profession at a mass.
00:24:24
Speaker
And we just had one for one of our longer term members. And she professed at a mass right here in Mason City. And the ceremony was part of the mass.
00:24:37
Speaker
But it really is about supporting each other. One of the things that we do is continuing education. So we're always having a book that we read. We always read the gospel of the day. We meet on Sundays. So we pick the gospel of the week.
00:24:51
Speaker
and we read through it, and then we talk a little bit about it. And then the second thing that we do is we get out our rule, and we look and see how can we apply this to our rule. And we talk about, well, this is rule number, you know, two, this is rule number four, you know, we're going to observe the gospel.
00:25:10
Speaker
And we're going to, number five, we're seeking to encounter the active person of Christ and your brothers and sisters. So maybe it's about Jesus serving the poor. so We're talking about, okay, how can we do that in our lives? And one of our apostolates is ah working at the local community kitchen, which would be like a soup kitchen.
00:25:30
Speaker
And we do that once a month. yeah yeah it is it's it's about It's about Francis wanted his followers to be in community because he knew that that made them stronger.
00:25:42
Speaker
Don't you get all community doubt like Miss Miss Guerrero? Is what your students call you? They do? Yes. the herb is g Miss G. That's cool. I like that. Miss G. You've got your community of your teachers and your staff. You've got your parish, you've got your students.
00:25:57
Speaker
And then now you've got your Franciscan community. I mean don't think you're you're married to Deacon Jim, then you've got your D. How do those all connect or overlap?
00:26:12
Speaker
Yeah, I wouldn't say we're community now. don't know. I think it's, ah you know, just they kind of serve different aspects, right? They serve different areas of your life. um But in it, we are modeling our faith, you know.
00:26:27
Speaker
i think that's the the overlap there is, you know, i get to talk to my students about what it is to be an associate or, um you know, this is how I serve, you know.
00:26:41
Speaker
um Sometimes it's not easy to do that alone, right? So you will have a community to to go out and serve of a meal at the Catholic Worker, right? um But it's important to be there for each of those groups, right? We're all called to help each other get to heaven and um bringing some of those parts of our spirituality or who we are on display in those different groups, like kind of ties that together, i think for us.
00:27:12
Speaker
I know for me, yeah, it's an easier opportunity being a teacher, talking about it, being part of a Catholic worker as well, helping in different areas there.
00:27:25
Speaker
But I mean, if we love God, right, and we truly come to know him, which fort St. Francis teaches us, I mean, he always was is trying to strive to know him more deeply, right? It's just going to exude.
00:27:38
Speaker
And so like, how can you not be a part of so many different groups that, you know, are able to receive that love? It's a, yeah, and it's a calling.
00:27:50
Speaker
It's a a charism. It's a vocation. just like everyone's called to be either single or married. And then also, you know and you have the subsets of that off of that. But the, and I've been told I have a Franciscan temperament.
00:28:06
Speaker
oh That's a compliment, right? Yeah, it is. It is. Although Francis was a very passionate person. I mean, once he wanted to do something, he did it.
00:28:18
Speaker
it's It's the idea of it it's rounding out these different areas of my life and enriching these different areas of my life, with you know, my marriage and ah being a deacon and and work. I happen to work at the parish in Mason city. So, and I was a teacher and a school counselor before that.
00:28:36
Speaker
So it's really, what happens is you kind of go into your monthly meeting. And I mean, there's a readings outside the meeting and everything. And then we're strengthened to go back out into the rest of our lives.
00:28:51
Speaker
And so it helps strengthen us and it helps enrich in the rest of our lives. Wow. So we have, I mean, we're all part of the same Catholic church, the same, um you know, and so same Christian umbrella, we might say spirituality.
00:29:10
Speaker
but ah But I think what ah sometimes people don't realize or appreciate, but like we are so blessed within the treasure trove of our faith is there are so many, within the umbrella of Catholic or Christian spirituality, there are these um there are these other spiritualities, right?
00:29:29
Speaker
We have Franciscan, we have Carmelite, we have Dominican spirituality, we have many others as well, Benedictine. ah So I would say...
00:29:42
Speaker
um so i So I guess the question I want to pose here, we've been kind of touching on this a little bit, but just I'll throw out the question both to you, ah Rosie and Beacon Jim.
Core Aspects of Franciscan Spirituality
00:29:52
Speaker
um just If someone were to ask you, what is Franciscan spirituality? Obviously it's associated with St. Francis, but just like in your own words, kind of your your pithy summary, what would you sort of summarize?
00:30:04
Speaker
um is or How would you describe Franciscan spirituality? I'd like to talk about for a moment, the connections with the different religious orders.
00:30:15
Speaker
no Francis grew up and he would have had Benedictines at Assisi. There was a monastery right there in Assisi. His first three churches that he was taking care of were basically satellites of the monastery and they allowed him to repair them and eventually live live by and near them.
00:30:35
Speaker
um And he also had interactions with Dominic, St. Dominic, they met in Rome at the Fourth Lateran Council, and there's a legend or a story about when they met, Francis gave Dominic his cord and his cincture, and he, in some ways, became the first Franciscan cord bearer.
00:30:57
Speaker
And some lay people are called cord bearers because they'll wear a cord or a cincture underneath their clothes. So really, when you start looking into this, and I've seen connections with um some of the St.
00:31:12
Speaker
Ignatius of Loyola with some of the Jesuit things and you see some some Franciscan threads in there um because his teachers would have been Franciscan, his teachers were Franciscans when he was growing up and he was around them.
00:31:24
Speaker
So they're all interconnected in a way, but they're all have a separate colony. No, I was just going to I guess, you know, so many things come to mind because I think fra St. Francis served so many.
00:31:39
Speaker
um mean, we've mentioned that, you know, it's not just about animals, but also just like his love for the the poor. um And the vulnerable.
00:31:51
Speaker
um And so just, don't know, for me, you know, Franciscan spirituality is just living that out regularly, taking his example in the many areas that he served and just, you know, trying to maybe live simply as part of it.
00:32:08
Speaker
um but also just deepening my relationship with Christ and his example, right? Continuously turning to him and and trying to build my relationship with him through his example of loving people no matter what, um being willing to sacrifice.
00:32:27
Speaker
um So, you know, I don't feel like I can necessari necessarily encompass it because I think kind of means something different to each individual. um But ultimately i think it just comes to to knowing God deeply and intimately, and then be able to live that out in those different areas.
00:32:45
Speaker
Because I know for me, creation is huge. You know, just taking care of God's creation. And I know Francis cared about that as well. I mean, if you read any of his prayers and how he speaks of Mother Earth and brother Moon, you know, you see that he truly had an appreciation.
00:33:05
Speaker
so to like know who God is that intimately kind of is what it, you know, speaks to me in that way, I suppose. Yeah, if Francis was a mystic. I mean, he loved Jesus.
00:33:18
Speaker
Franciscanism provides me with focus in the way I practice my Catholicism. oh Part of it is the participating in your local parish and in the sacramental life is very important.
00:33:32
Speaker
Um, and reconciliation and then, um, receiving communion and being in the parish life and serving to other people, which as a deacon, that, like I said, those, for me, those two ways of life have really ah overlapped a lot.
00:33:45
Speaker
Um, it's, yeah, it's about, it's not always about us. It's, it's about God and this gift of the father's love. And, um, One of the reasons we see so many stories about Francis and nature is he was able to see God's creative ability and love in all of nature and all of our environment around us.
00:34:09
Speaker
So that's why you see the things about him. mean, he looked and he would look out and see the birds and the trees and everything else. And you would see this is God's creation and that would remind him of God. So for him, nature was a conduit to get to God. It wasn't the end.
00:34:26
Speaker
But it was the, hey, this is a way for me to focus on God's love and what I can do with that. I like how you use the word focus, um that that I think that's what spiritualities help us to do, is they help us to...
00:34:44
Speaker
help us to um you know, there's so many dimensions or aspects to this profundity of the Christian faith and the mystery of God, the mystery of Christ, right? And what these individual spiritualities help us to do is kind of, um we're all gonna, you know, there's gonna be certain dimensions or aspects of the Christian mystery that are gonna resonate with us more deeply. And I think, as you said, like that, these spiritualities help us to kind of focus in on certain aspects or dimension um for that, that kind of give us a focus and direction.
00:35:15
Speaker
um Yeah, it really does. I mean, I carry, carry around my little, uh, secular Franciscan rule booklet with me. It's not very big. It fits in my pocket.
00:35:26
Speaker
And it's just, you know, as I read through it, you know, every day pieces of it, it's like, Oh yeah, it's, it's reminders. It's, I should be going in this way. You know, I'm a little too proud in what I was doing and I need to be a little more humble, um, or whatever that is.
00:35:41
Speaker
Um, you know, with my family here at the parish, um, yeah It does. It it provides focus. and And it's also been a fascinating... i was a history teacher, and and it's just fascinating reading about Francis and in the three orders. And there's so many stories there. And there's just so much more to him than the statue and in somebody's garden.
00:36:05
Speaker
And that's good. That's good. But there's just this... yeah He was a very passionate person. And he was very strict with himself. And there's a story about Early on, they just had the 12, one of the brothers was trying to fast, and you know they wanted to be holy. And he literally woke up crying with pain one night, and Francis got them all together and said, all right, you guys got to eat.
00:36:30
Speaker
And i think this is an example for me of our practices, whether it's the rosary, Franciscanism for me, any of our devotions in the church, we need to remember that it's not the devotion itself that's important.
00:36:46
Speaker
That devotion is the vehicle for us to deepen our relationship with Christ, to deepen our relationship with God. And sometimes it's easy to let the devotion itself get in the way.
00:36:58
Speaker
That's the important thing where it that leads me. And that it's the other thing is is it changed it's changed me. You look at and anybody, any of the saints, you know once they have that first experience, that transformative experience.
00:37:12
Speaker
So it's going to change us too. And lest anyone accuse you all of of just sitting around and praying all day, I mean, it sounds very much that you are focused and and driven into action through your prayer. I mean, Ms. G, I'm sure care for our common home, earth, is is probably a really important thing. And then um not just feeding the poor, but like battling injustice in our country and and poverty. And it sounds like it's just, it's the contemplative life, but it's also the active life as well.
00:37:44
Speaker
Oh yeah, absolutely. was just going to say, you know, I'm glad you mentioned that because, you know, if we really think of ah St. Francis and what he was doing and, you know, his initial story, like he was such, you just want get to the grain, right? Like he really challenged the church at the time. And I think it's really just inspiration um for us, especially during these times, there's just, um,
00:38:08
Speaker
so much and turmoil and, you know, ah it's so hard to, to, you know, sometimes feel like we have the ability to speak up. And so I think he, he does that for us. He gives us that courage and music his example.
00:38:25
Speaker
oh There's a story I read in the life of St. Francis. Also, I remember when he was starting his order, He was really torn because he like had a desire for a deep prayer life, but also felt this draw, this call to go out to preach the gospel to serve the poor.
00:38:44
Speaker
and And I remember it was just interesting seeing that that tension existed in Francis
Balance Between Action and Prayer in Franciscan Life
00:38:50
Speaker
himself. You know, I mean, we think of sometimes the Francis is is going out in action, serving the poor, but it's something that was definitely grounded in a deep prayer life. So it's both, as both you were leading to it. It's it's ah it' a form of prayer, ah a prayer life that helps draw us, connect us to Christ, but also that sends us out too.
00:39:09
Speaker
Yeah, it is. There's a tension there. And I think sometimes the United States, we forget that you can live in tension and tension can be a good thing. yeah It's the Catholic, it's the both and, it's not either or.
00:39:20
Speaker
And Francis was very passionate about being faithful to the Pope, being faithful to the church, being faithful to priests. um There was different heresies going on at the time, and he was very strict about, he didn't have any time for people that were heretics.
00:39:39
Speaker
He would and talk to them and everything, and he would talk to them in a kind and loving manner, but As a humble person, he wouldn't put them down or tell them how to live. He understood that they had to make their own choices on how to live.
00:39:52
Speaker
And that's kind of a tough thing sometimes for us to accept is everybody's got their own path. We've got to take our path. But then, i mean, even my wife, my two kids, they have to take their own path.
00:40:04
Speaker
It's like a parent. Your kid starts to grow up and you realize they have to start making their decisions. That's not always easy to let go.
00:40:13
Speaker
Miss G, I'm sure you see that for all your students as well. They're all in your classroom and they're all doing in their own different path. And yet you want to guide them towards the joy of knowledge and education.
00:40:25
Speaker
Oh yeah, 100%. It is a challenge for sure because you you know that you have to love them first, right? In order for them to be open to receiving Christ, right?
00:40:40
Speaker
um And so you just try to cultivate that as best as possible. um Don't shy away from the truth, right? Speak to the truths of the church and all of that. um We have to stand firm in our faith, of course.
00:40:53
Speaker
um But i think at least in the years I've been teaching, that you see um you see that change, their own hearts converting, right? It goes from just gaining this knowledge in religion class and theology class and actually going, oh,
00:41:09
Speaker
I actually want that relationship with Christ, right? Like I get to choose it. um And so it's been a beautiful witness, right? To the faith in the church. I have hope but for the for the future, right? um Just what I've seen.
00:41:24
Speaker
i know I like to bring a lot of my ideas. and passions um you know uh but it's good to see sorry as you guys know i have a dog in here and so i apologize if you hear i think i think it's very of yeah it franciscan talking about his creation austrian and that's part of this journey here right now i've got a dog here with us yeah i have a i a dog too but i'm at the office so back at home But yeah, i think when they see your passion and your excitement for the faith, it gets them excited. And so I know where I'm at, just giving the students opportunity to create their own service projects and it into, say, a saint like St. Francis, um you know they actually run with it.
00:42:10
Speaker
We've seen a lot of cool things, more environmental because it's more a little bit more achievable. there We got recycling in our whole school um and, you know, we're out fixing up our garden that we have in our door chapel.
00:42:26
Speaker
um So, you know, they're open to to receiving this and actually, um yeah, just living in the faith in their own way.
00:42:37
Speaker
One more thing on this. um we we We talked about the the benefits of being part of community earlier. And it sounds like when you're standing up against all the the darkness and pain in the world, what can you do?
00:42:52
Speaker
However, if you're part of a community and rooted in Christ and you can do it together, that's really cool. Yes. Yes. me go Go together and strengthen together. Then as we do at the end of mass, we go forth.
00:43:07
Speaker
after we're together. And I know I'm not the guest speaking about Franciscan spirituality, but I'll just add, since I have an affinity for St. Francis too, one dimension of Franciscan spirituality that I'm like really drawn to, and you both alluded to this, but if one were to summarize, it's it is hard to summarize, there's so much to him, but one word that comes to mind, of course, is poverty.
00:43:30
Speaker
There's various dimensions of that, which is that living simply, that serving the poor, but especially... um One, i what what i what really personally for me really like drew me to St. Francis was what shaped his poverty wasn't just being poor for its own sake, but precisely in following Christ in his self-emptying, right? It's Christ's poverty that he's following. So like looking at creation and recognizing this almighty, all-powerful, beautiful, wondrous creator God, and that that God would lower himself so much, would empty himself.
The Stigmata and Its Significance
00:44:07
Speaker
like That is the poverty, the self-emptying, all the way to the point of the cross, right? and Yeah, that's why you see the Tao cross with the T, and you'll see the crossed arms in front of it with the stigmata.
00:44:20
Speaker
one One is Francis's arm, you see it in the sleeve, and the other one is Jesus's arm. And Francis really wanted to emulate Jesus. And that's probably why he ended up with the stigmata is he said, I want to be like you.
00:44:34
Speaker
For our listeners, can you explain what the stigmata is? The stigmata, and he's not the only one that I've had at Padre Pio, who lived in Italy, pretty recently, actually. It is a person that has the marks of the cross on them. So they have marks on their on their hands and wrists, where the nails were and their feet. And then there's also a wound in their side, and they never heal.
00:44:58
Speaker
um they bleed and it's a, I don't know what to say. It's like, wow, the person was, Padre Pio and Francis were so close to Christ and had emptied themselves so much that he gave them this gift and it was, they understood that they could suffer and Jesus suffered for us because in suffering for us, he not only breaks open the gates of hell, but Everything that we suffer, he knows. He was there. Jesus suffered that in war.
00:45:31
Speaker
no So it it's, yeah, it's literally the marks of, and the people that have examined him say, you know, it's it bleeds and there's, and it never heals.
00:45:44
Speaker
What are the Italians doing that we're not doing? They were both Italian, weren't they? They were both they're both Italian. I don't remember who else has had them. I don't think it's, Yeah, so these wounds of Christ that miraculously appear in the body of the the person. They receive in their body these marks and wounds.
00:46:01
Speaker
yeah And we might add, along Christ crucified. So St. Francis received the stigmata. There's also the famous story that it was from an image of Christ on the cross, the San Damiano cross. He heard the word spoken to him, rebuild my church.
00:46:14
Speaker
And that's kind of what, ah for as you can see, is falling into ruins. And that's part of what inspired him to to
Symbols and Joining the Franciscan Community
00:46:20
Speaker
go forth. So there's a lot of these connections to the cross. they moved the cross into a ah bigger church where the sisters are today in Assisi, but that chapel, they have a replica of it is still there. it's like a five foot tall cross.
00:46:33
Speaker
And it has all this. If you look up San Damiano cross, just the the imagery and it is beautiful. It's very Eastern Catholic Orthodox oh in its styling.
00:46:45
Speaker
But what he did is he would, we talked about Eucharistic adoration. He basically did that with the cross and also with the Eucharist. where he would pray, and that would be his focal point.
00:46:58
Speaker
Federation of the cross, we might say. We've established the the orders and the history of St. Francis, and we've established that it is, in fact, a very good thing to be part of a community, that it overlaps and and and feeds into all the other communities in your life.
00:47:15
Speaker
And ah if it's not obvious, I want to reiterate as much as possible that lay people are doing this. And so two what ah would you suggest, our dear guests, if someone listening right now wanted to either learn a little bit more about what it's like to be a secular Franciscan, or if they actually wanted to join, um what would you recommend that they do? Or what, where should they go?
00:47:39
Speaker
You can go first, Miss G. OK, thank you. So the Sisters of St. Francis, actually, i would say everyone's hopefully technology savvy. um But they actually have a website where you can get some information.
00:47:53
Speaker
So there is a coordinator for the associates. So ah if you were to visit the OSFDBQ.org, you're able to search for associates. And there's like an interest interest page. And you would just reach out so um to the coordinator and they would know immediately, right? Like if there's a group in your area.
00:48:16
Speaker
or if you can join in um online, like via Zoom or something. um But I'd say that's the easiest. And that's if like you don't know someone, right? Like if you don't know someone that is in a group, I mean, I'd say you you can reach out to me if you're interested, you know?
00:48:34
Speaker
um And, you know, I can help set that up. But I'd say going there is the easiest to just find out, you know, what you can do and,
00:48:46
Speaker
to to be part of it because there's a lot of groups, I'll say that. So I'm sure anyone with interest would be able to easily learn about becoming a Franciscan associate. Yeah, that's that's what um my fraternity says.
00:49:01
Speaker
And we still do a lot of things with St. Mary's down Waterloo. Our formation, we still link that up. But yeah, going to a meeting, seeing what it's all about, meeting the people, seeing if it's a good fit for you.
00:49:13
Speaker
If you go to queenofpeaceregion.org, that will give you, you'll be able to find in Iowa, the Mason City St. Bonaventure Group, or if you're in Minnesota, the Dakotas, Nebraska, La Crosse, any of those groups.
00:49:32
Speaker
And that's really what what we encourage is people just come and try it out. It might not be for you, and that's fine. If it is for you, that's that's great, and we'll ah walk along the path with you. Another website you can go to, which is the Secular Franciscan Order for the United States, is secularfranciscanusa.org.
00:49:52
Speaker
And that has all sorts of resources in it. And I'm sure we will have all these links in the show notes. we got japanese ah So one, maybe one final question before we wrap up here. So maybe someone, they're interested in the in learning they're not sure about the groups but they at least want to learn more about saint francis and or his spirituality what is and i'm sure there are many resources but what is like one resource or one book per se or maybe that that you think is a good introduction to either saint francis franciscan spirituality that you would recommend to listeners if they want to learn more you can all go first on this one
00:50:34
Speaker
ah St. Bonaventure wrote The Life of Francis of Assisi, and St. Bonaventure was a second-generation Franciscan, and he was a person that had an association with another Dominican and when they were both at the University of Paris. They received their doctorates on the same day, and i'm guessing one of the fathers, one of the priests can guess on who that is.
00:50:57
Speaker
Are you speaking of St. Thomas Aquinas? d I am speaking of St. Thomas Aquinas. So there was linkage there. And so Bonaventure actually was able to talk to some of the older friars that were still living that had known Francis. And he also went through all of the things that have been written up to that point.
00:51:16
Speaker
So that's and that's one that's been around since the So just to clarify, St. Dominic and St. Francis, they were kind of buddies with different spiritualities in different communities.
00:51:27
Speaker
And then you have St. Bonaventure and St. Thomas Aquinas, and they're kind of buddies, you know, different spiritualities, different communities, but all part of the big family, the many parts of the body of Christ in the church. And anything, if you, another Franciscan that's a modern American would be Father Benedict Rochelle.
00:51:43
Speaker
And he has a lot of books that are very good. And of course he writes from the Franciscan perspective. being a Franciscan friar and priest. Rosie, what's a book? Go ahead. Yeah, I was just going to share a book that was recommended by a friend called My God and My All, The Life of St. Francis of Assisi. I think if you're just kind of wanting to get to know him um and kind of you know, get his history, his story, what the spirituality is about, some of the people, you know, that followed him or influenced by him. i think that's kind of like a good starter for just an introduction on who he was, because, you know,
00:52:21
Speaker
there's i mean you could sit here and talk about his life forever right because there's so much to him um but i think that's just kind of a ah good basic um kind of helps guide you know if this is maybe uh the spirituality that it's calling you or not right so there are ways you can live in these different spiritualities within our archdiocese we will have future episodes talking about other spirituality groups all that exists right here in the archdiocese of dubuque So thank you, both of you. Thank you, Rosie. Thank you, Deacon Jim, for um being a part of this, for sharing these ah your thoughts on these Franciscan groups and Franciscan spirituality.
00:53:00
Speaker
It is much appreciated. We're glad you're here. So thank you for being here, both of you. so but Thank you for inviting us to speak. Yes, appreciate it. Thank you for letting us be part of your community as well. Yes, we we started our own little community here now too with you listeners as listeners of the Eucharistic Revival podcast.
00:53:20
Speaker
and Thank you everyone for listening and we will all see you in the Eucharist. All right, God bless.
00:53:48
Speaker
Wow, great job, everybody. I have no idea what happened to the image. Is it gone for you, too? Yeah, the video disappeared. Okay, I think it's an hour time limit. I'm still working on that and not being angry about it. um Wow, you that was a amazing that was so good, you two. Thank you.
00:54:06
Speaker
Thank you. Thank you for the invitation. yeah An invite, yeah. um So so i could be I could join one of these if I wanted to.
00:54:18
Speaker
yeah yeah As a Catholic priest. Yes. yeah whoa and And it doesn't, like, you're obviously married, Deacon Jim, and yes so you can join this and it doesn't, like, wow, this is... Well, yeah, it's lay people, I mean, doesn't matter. Married, single...
00:54:36
Speaker
if you're not part of a religious order. So as diocesan clergy, we all can do that. say you know't say Father St. John Vianney was a secular Franciscan. And then, Ed, when you get your admission to the order, you get to put the OFS behind your name.
00:54:56
Speaker
Oh, okay. That's what that means. yeah That's what that means. and remember That's the Latin. That's why it's it doesn't look like it's in the right order. Father Jacob, we are secular priests.
00:55:09
Speaker
Yes. So we can join the secular order. Yes. Oh, that's right. In the olden term, instead of saying diocesan priest, they would call a secular priests. Yes. As opposed to religious priests. um do you Do you guys have habits? Do you like suit up like Batman if someone needs?
00:55:24
Speaker
No, for a No habits, okay. other evidence Sorry, Father Jacob, where were these questions in the podcast? i I was trying to keep keep it together. like I didn't want to overwhelm.
00:55:35
Speaker
You also did very well because, Miss G, I'm sure you can appreciate the the type of questioning where you you want to lead them on. But part of it was like, um want to know too. so Absolutely. In the future, feel free to ask such questions. Yeah, okay. I duly noted. Thank you.
00:55:55
Speaker
Yes, your your your closest fraternity would be either Mason City or Waterloo. Well, maybe Dubuque. I'm not sure. Gotcha. All right.
00:56:07
Speaker
Well, thank you. I'm go to have Kevin stay on the call, um or maybe I'll call him, but you all are free to go. Thank you so much. All right. yeah Thank you for having us. e Thank you. Have a good night.
00:56:22
Speaker
um I'm still here. Okay, theyre yeah okay I am signing off. Okay, bye. Bye. it