Transcript
Speaker: How's it going everyone? Welcome to another episode of Soapstone. My name is Jake and I am joined by my co-host as always Dave. How's it going today Dave? It's going so good. The weather is... i was gonna say nice but then I looked at the number.
Speaker: I'm inside for a reason. ah To record the podcast. But also it's getting a little bit toasty out. It definitely is. It's a good temperature to like drive with your arm out the window for a bit and then you just go home back to the air conditioning and you're good Yeah, as soon as I open the window, i'm going to lose all the cool AC in the car.
Speaker: this is who You don't run with the AC on if your windows are open, ideally. ah But, fair enough. We're here to talk about a game, Dave.
Speaker: Yeah? You ask us a question. Is Deltarune Chapter 3? think that is it, yeah. That does seem correct. um Game of the Year? Is it your Game of the Year?
Speaker: No. Chapter 3? No. no That'd be very funny. Just pick out like... Chapter 3, Game of the Year, Chapter 4? Just a game. No input, no thoughts.
Speaker: um um It's been a while. Do you recall when Deltarune started coming out? If not, I'm going to look it up. I'm just going to assume five-ish years ago, but I really do not know...
Speaker: I know it has been a couple of years since chapter two came out. Yeah. Chapter one was released for free October 2018. Oh, wow.
Speaker: So we are youre a ways on ah seven years. that is That is a long time, actually. I didn't expect it to be seven years. I wasn't ready for that to be the answer. Yeah, so there's definitely a gap between um chapter two, chapter three.
Speaker: But I think they were also working on other things ahead at the time. So at this point, chapter three and chapter four are out. i Only gonna be talking about chapter three for now. Cause I think they deserve their own episodes.
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: And I mean, this is a, for, for the uninitiated, because again, there's a very large ah gap here. um this is well in the universe of undertale. And if you were to go back probably about seven years, I don't know, seven years and change, you get to like when undertale actually released, it would have been even longer actually, wouldn't it?
Speaker: Yeah. Okay. Well we're old. Um, and so a lot of the things that we talk about are going to be very esoteric if you're not already in the undertale community, I guess, but we can talk about the game as a whole.
Speaker: Um, but there's also going to be, you know, some stuff where there's comparisons to undertale, I think, or, um, some of the overarching story I think would be fair to say.
Speaker: Yes. Um, but, uh, at its surface, you know, for just the, the, the casual mobile game player on a phone, uh, what is, what is Delta room?
Speaker: All right. So Delta room is it. And I'll, I'll step away. Like 20 minutes. It's just a 2D RPG where basically you're exploring the given world you're in, in this case, Dark World, because you have here's your IRL stuff happening in town and then here's the adventure you go on, which is the episodic portion.
Speaker: Right. um And you have the option to fight enemies with violence or to spare them with actions. It's much more streamlined than in Undertale. With Undertale, you had to like find the right thing ah to work with them.
Speaker: ah But typically this just gets you two different paths. I'm going to say in air quotes, ah which I think both illuminate parts of the story. Right.
Speaker: But it's broken into three parts where it's exploration and in your area. There is combat where you're dealing with those enemies, as I mentioned.
Speaker: And then there is.
Speaker: games regardless of what form that takes there's gonna be something that's outside of the just exploration and combat um
Speaker: but to try and wrap this in a bow the reason that I enjoy the overall experience of Deltarune chapters is it's always novel like every time I go in I'm gonna be like oh how are they gonna mean I liked episode 2 I thought Queen was a great character great character thought Spamton was interesting mm-hmm And then i had no idea to expect, but they, again, they're like, oh, they made another character that I can like and quote and share links of.
Speaker: So... They continue to do that very well. Right. Toby Fox isn't getting worse at writing as this is going on. Some of those interesting character traits and things like that.
Speaker: I mean, they they have a lot of I think it's fair to say that with how much content has been released, you could sort of like categorize these characters into the joking semi antagonistic trope, you know, things like that.
Speaker: um So some of them have some of the same flavor. Um, but, uh, there's still enough humor injected there and enough like lines of dialogue and things like that and intricacy to the characters themselves that, uh, you can track through it, right? It's not like, okay, this is just the reincarnation of this previous character, unless maybe they are, i you never know in this series, but, um,
Speaker: it's not It's not like, ah I guess, to make a comparison to Souls, whereas in the other series we cover a lot. It's not like you're like, oh, this is patches in every game. um This is just these characters might explore some of the same themes.
Speaker: um But yeah, it's i think I think the interesting thing for me is Undertale and Deltarune. comes out as a you know top-down slash bullet hell sort of mixed genre classic RPG. right It's like a classic RPG, almost like RPG maker, but like very high effort.
Speaker: um And it's not the most popular genre right now, I would say, for games. But despite that, ah there's a tremendous following.
Speaker: Yeah, it's this entire series. Like it really popped off because I thought it was going to be just like niche indie thing where it's like the small community likes it.
Speaker: And then they're like, hey, we're making more of these and it's going to be on consoles. You're like, huh? What now? Uh-huh. Cause Delta ruins chapter one and two were just an EXC. You could get off the internet.
Speaker: Yeah. That's literally it. It's just, Hey, I made this. Do you want to play it? here yeah From the main page. It's worth mentioning, right? This is not, you know, DRM or anything like that. It's just like, I made so much money on undertale that I don't really care. Here's what I've been working on. Here's the, the product.
Speaker: Um, And it was more difficult to critique the release ah the release style, you know the chapter-based release thing, when you're getting them for free. right It's like, okay, well, they're literally free.
Speaker: um It doesn't matter how you want to get them to me because I'm not paying any money for it. This is a shift, right? um I believe Delta Rune is $25.
Speaker: I think that's right. It's 25 or 30. Around 20, 25, 30. Yeah. Yeah. yeah um on Steam, ah you know, sales notwithstanding. That's going to be for every single chapter.
Speaker: so even the ones that have not come out yet. Of which there are. so How many? How many do we have left? We're going to eight, did you say? think it's seven or eight. so I need to double check.
Speaker: Yeah. It's a very high number. Um, and this isn't critique of chapter three, which we'll get into, but personally, I struggle a little bit more with the episodic release pattern. Um, cause it's harder for me to remember everything that was going on.
Speaker: Um, and I would like to know, ah because I mean, given this release cadence, right, we're looking at seven years from the start of Delta Rune or the initial release of del Delta Rune up to like chapter four.
Speaker: We're looking at like another 15 years or whatever to finish this this thing out. um That's a long time.
Speaker: Yeah, it is. But i not to throw you under the bus, but I think the people who want to refresh their knowledge or something, they're either going to go back and like play through chapters one and two, probably.
Speaker: Especially if this is a new thing for them. Or if somebody's just being like, hey, i just want to get into Chapter three. I'm sure they know Chapter two pretty well. Like if you're at a Delta Rune nut, you've done previous chapters more than once. It's kind of burned in. brand Yeah, it would be nice because I've definitely picked up games or series and I'm like,
Speaker: Can you remind me what was happening? Uh-huh. Even the buttons i'm trying to re-figure out because I'm so used to playing Expedition 33. Oh, you run with R2. Okay. Oh, completely different button now. Sick.
Speaker: Yeah, no. I mean, it's it's maybe tough to do in this particular format. And like you said, it's not too much to put a little bit of effort into to recapping. But story recaps are also something that um you could say this type of game or art...
Speaker: ah I don't want to say it's a lower effort because this really isn't. This is a very high effort ah RPG um with some kind of crazy production value at times that makes Undertale look ridiculous in its minimalism.
Speaker: um goes to the opposite side. But like at the same time, it wouldn't be bad to just have an option for a recap. right It doesn't even have to be like a bunch of cut scenes or something that's split together. Like this is Saturday morning tv show.
Speaker: It could be just a little paragraph, you're saying. Yeah. You remember how like the worst way to to start an RPG is if a title scroll where it's like, In the land of Noun, there are these races of Noun and Noun and Noun and they're each fighting over Noun and blah, blah, blah, blah. And here is your protagonist in their disadvantaged state or whatever.
Speaker: ah Family was killed by ah plague caused by Noun. Yeah, whatever. Yeah. People hate that because who cares, right? Like if the game's interesting, show me the game and then I'll express interest in everything else that's happening.
Speaker: I don't need your RPG headcanon world building fact sheet, like PDF printout before I like start playing. I'm not advocating for that necessarily, but a recap, just like a text-based recap or something like that.
Speaker: um Previously on Delta Rune, these things happened, you know, based off of your own save file, because this is this is a series where it goes save file to save file, right? Like you're loading the choices that you made from a chapter chapter two when you start chapter three.
Speaker: I want to interject and just say, If you played the standalone clients, I do not think that applies for having your decisions carry over. um Because at least as far as the quote unquote mech you make make in chapter one, which makes an appearance every now and again, it doesn't look like the one that I remember making. Gotcha.
Speaker: I think I'd have to redo chapters one and two on this client, which likely I will at a point for completionist sake. But it is like, and you you do it does explicitly have the option, right? You could choose not to load a save and just continue with like some default settings.
Speaker: um And pretty much all games that follow this format have that approach, right? Mass Effect did a... um Dragon Age, I guess, Bioware games. Bioware RPGs did it.
Speaker: um Or it's like, if you have a save, you can use it. If not, we're going have like a brief questionnaire about some choices you would have made, or we're just going to assume for the things that don't matter that much um what Shepard would have done in the situation or the Warden Commander or whatever.
Speaker: And um and it's not like there are a bunch of decisions to make in Delta Rune. outside of like, are you are you really going down this dark path? And if so, are you committing every single step of the way to stay on the path?
Speaker: Or are you going to do at any point, any little thing that sets you back to the normal path, right? so there's kind of like, this is largely the same as as Undertale, is my understanding. You correct me if I'm wrong, you're a little bit more informed or a lot more informed on this.
Speaker: um But you have your pacifist route, um You have your normal route and you have your genocide equivalent route or i guess weird route in Deltarune. Is that still true?
Speaker: So I know there's at least a like a pacifist obviously and then there is a weird route. I don't know if there's a ah neutral to the point that there would be like different endings in that regard.
Speaker: Right. um One thing I did read And this is jumping literally to the end of chapter three. um I'll talk in vague terms and we'll give our disclaimer, but um the fate of the penultimate boss, second to last boss, um either living or dying does depend on whether you're a pacifist or not.
Speaker: but Like there's actually a different animation to indicate that they're either incapacitated if you're on pacifist, Or outright killed if you're not.
Speaker: So, yeah. Interesting. That's one thing I looked up because I finished this game yesterday, by the way. This very fresh for me. um and By yesterday, I mean after midnight today. Yeah, it's.
Speaker: I'm blanking on where to start on this. Um, but how did you feel about the setting? Um, it's, it's interesting setting. So this entire, ah you gave this in the opening description.
Speaker: Um, but this entire adventure takes place. Um, in the dark world um and there is i think in previous chapters there was some time spent in in the light world or like reality or whatever you want to call it um but this one it's it's entirely under there i think there's a sequence at the end where you're back in the light world but it's basically a cut scene you're not like making any decisions or anything like that It's just the, they really, Toby toby Fox loves the classic cli ha cliffhanger trope at the end of every episode where it's like, and now get ready for this, which is fine if you released two chapters and you just finished the chapter that has the cliffhanger and you're about to jump into the next chapter.
Speaker: But if you know that you're gonna be waiting seven years, it's probably a little bit less fun. um But for setting, yes, it's all in the the the dark world. um With a walking section, ah essentially at the beginning where characters are having some interpersonal discussion and then immediately into the game show for almost the entirety of the game.
Speaker: ah Yeah, I think when it does that transition, that's where it used most of the budget for the game. Uh-huh. Because the game itself, everything is just pixelized.
Speaker: ah Not to the point of like things are hard to read, but just different sprites. ah But the character, Mr. Tenna that you meet, he is basically just a series of different gifts.
Speaker: Yeah. And they're all very expressive and fun. um And I really thought I was going to not like this character. It's like, oh, I don't like their their voice or like how the text is read.
Speaker: But the more the more I went on, I'm like, okay, there's there's a certain over-the-top charm here. Yeah. Yeah. Very much plays a TV host slash live TV presenter. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. I think the the vibe I got was like this. This guy is just ripped out of early GeoCities clip art. Basically, like all of the animations are essentially that.
Speaker: um but it's just an incredible aesthetic. Um, the other thing that stood out for me that I was really notable is to kind of like sell home, how boisterous and how much of an entertainer this character is. A lot of times when he's speaking, he uses like animations in the text box, like large animations and things like that, or it's TV time, which happens many times.
Speaker: Um, And this is, this is one of the things I think Toby Fox does a really good job of is just given the mediums available in this little RPG space, you get so much information about the personality that a character has, right?
Speaker: Like, Even just going back to Undertale where they started font faces for different characters and different sounds that would correspond to their their text, right?
Speaker: Yeah. And this character is just that, 2.11, to indicate that this character is 2.11.
Speaker: And I felt very much that like queen Queen was 2.11 in Chapter 2. But But no, ah but now apparently not. There was further 11. Yeah.
Speaker: um And yeah, I guess beyond this, we can talk about spoilers and stuff like that. i Do you, before we jump into that, do you recommend this? Do you recommend chapter three?
Speaker: Is this worth spending money on for the people that are going to? think if you're invested in Undertale or Deltarine chapter one and two. yeah Yes.
Speaker: Because this is the continuation of it. um It's more of the same type of stuff that you like. Mm-hmm. Content wise, but it keeps building on.
Speaker: I feel like they learn something new that they want to play out. They want to play around with in a ah given chapter um or add new mechanics or other stuff.
Speaker: Yeah, it just keeps getting more fleshed out. Exactly. Both story wise and also gameplay wise. Yeah, i agree 100%.
Speaker: I would say pick this up if chapters one and two engaged you. And I recognize a little bit of the um not necessarily hypocrisy, but I wouldn't recommend this for all games because like you said, like like we said earlier, you know, this is unreleased chapters up to seven and eight.
Speaker: I wouldn't focus too much on that when you make this purchase for like 25, 30 bucks, whatever it is. um On the unreleased content, like you, you, you are paying money for what came out now and ah the rest of it, let it just happen as time goes on. Right. um But don't expect that, you know, you're guaranteed through,
Speaker: episode eight or something like that um if it says that on the steam page then i i get that you can expect that but you don't know when you're going to get it right that's what i'm trying to say you don't know when you're going to get it and if you've ever played a live service game you know that content is not guaranteed um you don't know when things are going to happen this is really just a reasonable amount of money to ensure that development goes smoothly for the rest of the series um But again, if you're not into not buying fully fully finished products, it's okay to wait.
Speaker: Just understand memes for this are going everywhere. and You'll never escape them, even if you're completely removed from the universe of Delzarin and Undertale.
Speaker: Yeah, I very much had to like start immediately because I'm like, I'm going to go on the internet and don't want to have to be peeking through my my fingers at certain things be like, am I going to be spoiled?
Speaker: Right. Yeah. But yeah, if you do look up anything for this game, expect it to immediately cover your your recommendations, as has already started once Dave sent me a single link.
Speaker: but But yeah. ah Jumping into it, though, a lot of this is focused. The the party walk scene, the and are basically ambushed essentially by Tenna, uh, and invited into this game show format.
Speaker: Um, how are you feeling going into this? Like compared to your expectations or were you just to be a Rasa, you're blank slate willing to expect anything that they threw at you at this point.
Speaker: Um, I'd say closer to a tabula Rasa just because each chapter is very much. It's its own thing. Right. And I'm like, Toby, take me on the ride. You prepare, please. I'm buckled into the coaster.
Speaker: ah Let's go. um So, yeah, the the way as far as like um doing mini games or doing quizzes or doing like RPGs within an RPG um was all novel and kind of cool.
Speaker: have a comment on one of those for sure. Actually multiple. Yeah. quizzes are The quizzes were funny because these happened fairly early in the game, right? The quizzes start up fairly early. And I was almost a little resentful because I was like, you're quizzing me on things that I did seven years ago, right? For for previous save.
Speaker: um Very minor though. it didn't impact things outside of going for the pure S rank route, I guess. um which I got zero S ranks. Um, Sag, um, but the, uh, the video game in a video game, I loved that.
Speaker: Just seeing the silhouettes of the characters, like on the couch with the screen in front of them. And you're just controlling the characters on the screen. Cause this is literally take, if this was in a full game, you may have access to everything, but this is also like a pixel game where you're already sort of operating at a,
Speaker: technically like slightly reduced resolution or it sort of feels like it and now you're minimizing that screen space even more to have an inner screen where the gameplay is actually happening and incredible loved it it was actually great yeah it i don't know i didn't expect essentially worlds within worlds um but that's something that i personally love Shout out to the mist mod on on Minecraft or whatever it was called.
Speaker: Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah, it was very nice aesthetic. In between stuff, and you definitely pick up on the vibe that Tenna is a little bit sus.
Speaker: Yes. There's definitely some other things going on where he'll step away or be on a call with somebody and you might overhear part of it and it just... It ah introduces doubt, I would say.
Speaker: Right. Because this is sort of the going back to the sort of tropes. This is sort of the Mettaton or Spamton type character where they're not antagonistic to you. And this guy, Mr. Tana, is even less and to antagonistic to you.
Speaker: Um, but still, he's technically in your way. Yeah. From progressing the thing that you need to do. At the start of this, you're like, hey, let's go close the dark fountain.
Speaker: Do-do-do. your party's walking along. And then he just shows up. Yeah. And you're like, okay, I guess we'll do this. We'll humor you, basically. Uh-huh.
Speaker: It's like you're playing a tabletop game and you're like, all right, let's go complete the objective. But then the storyteller, the DM or whatever is like, and a carnival appeared. And there's like all these interesting NPCs and things like that. And they're like, it is free admission tonight only. And you like look at all of this stuff and it's like, uh we were gonna just do the main thing and we know that if we enter this carnival it's gonna be four sessions it's gonna be a month before we get out of here but it seems like you put all of the effort into this okay um and it does play into the uh the character building here right because in the that intro kind of like walk sequence the inner character dialogue you have susie who is your um
Speaker: I was just say like brat. She is. She is basically like a brat, but she's a punk. yeah She She's your punk trope character and at the very least misunderstood, but also like um she does act out and things like that.
Speaker: And clearly there's some, some, ah I would say romantic tension, right? Between Susie and remind me of the another character's name. I just blanked it. Noelle.
Speaker: Noel. Oh, there was between Susie and Noel too. I was thinking of, um, uh, not say it again. We're all say, we're all say, thank you.
Speaker: My brain literally was like a, a, a slot machine cycling through all of the names. Like, but I'm like, Nope, Nope. Not that, not that either. Really? ah how birdley Honestly, lot of tension between this character and everybody. i don't know where the game's going.
Speaker: Um, but at the very least budding and friendship, right? For this character that Susie is the type of character who does not open up frequently. And they even go into her backstory in this chapter, um, where, uh, Toriel,
Speaker: the main protagonist, maybe ah Chris's mom ah is like friendly to and provided Susie some hope and stuff like that. And that's, that's one of the the big moments for her.
Speaker: But I digress. I'm not just talking about Susie here. Susie and Ralsei have this kind heart to heart discussion where Susie's inviting Ralsei to all these things up in the light world. Like, oh, we should go to this festival and,
Speaker: We should hang out and we can get Chris to do our homework together and stuff like that. And we're all say also just being an excellent character. He's like, uh, like, oh, I would love to help do your homework or something like that. i Immediately just redirects it to not infringe on Chris.
Speaker: Absolutely. Sweetheart. Um, and then they're like, we're all says like, but you realize that I'm not real essentially. Right? Like,
Speaker: This is a shadow world that only exists and when dark like when you take light out of darkness, basically. um Whenever you go back, like this isn't real.
Speaker: ah Which Susie does not like. because she's Susie cares about people, right? Yeah. And Ralsei is very...
Speaker: What's the 2025 way to say this doesn't want to take up space? Yeah. um So like they don't advocate for themselves. They're always trying to minimize. Oh, I don't want to be an inconvenience. i want to be a bother.
Speaker: um And also, like we're all say, doesn't.
Speaker: Basically, wants to do things for Chris and Susie because they've enjoyed time with them. They like them as people. But also they think like that they themselves don't necessarily have value.
Speaker: Right. Like, oh, well, if I don't really have a purpose or value, I'll just do these things for these people. Right. And Rossi also believes that like that he's not real. Right. Right.
Speaker: he He believes that like when the lights go on, his entire existence doesn't exist. Right. Because they they give some visual example for this, but characters such as Lancer who are great, um they're playing cards in the light world.
Speaker: And and So there is some sort of conversion or like Toy Story-esque thing going on here where when the main characters in the Light World enter the Dark World, these other objects are given identity. And I love the way that they describe this too.
Speaker: Because it's like if you are in your room and it's nighttime and the lights are dimmed and then turned off, ah the like objects in your room become indistinct. um And they like they'll fuzz. They'll look something like they'll look like something else.
Speaker: And it's like it's that sort of perception that leads to the existence of the the darkners in the dark world. um I'm like, dang, that's a cool that's a cool like tie it to real life sort of visual ah design decision and idea. Yeah.
Speaker: But yeah, so Ralsei is almost toxic friendliness, right? Where that's they' his his defining trait. um And Susie strives for independence.
Speaker: And so when she cares about Ralsei and Ralsei doesn't have any self-worth, that's almost like aggressively insulting to her. Like she's not willing to accept that. She's like, no, no, you have to have self-worth.
Speaker: um there's um i don't always get to quote idols on this podcast uh but there's a lyric i forget from what the song is at the moment um but if someone said to you what you say to you i'd put their teeth through love yourself uh-huh yeah yeah that's easy basically um So they were going to to bypass this game show ah with with Mr. Tenna.
Speaker: um Mr. Ant Tenna. um But they're like, oh, this is actually an opportunity to have something like that festival experience that we're all say wouldn't be able to experience because he can't leave the dark world to go to the light world.
Speaker: um So they're like, we'll do it anyway. So like, right well we'll well, we'll participate. And I like that because that is a binding between the gameplay that you need to happen. Yes. Which is, hey we're going to have our WarioWare subverse, basically, and the character motivations, which not all games can land, but it made sense here.
Speaker: And it wasn't overbearing. I think... This is me going away from like talking about the story points that going like full meta. I think each of the chapters is specifically trying to convey some information about the overall lore.
Speaker: um Obviously flesh out some character stuff, some world stuff as well. And then it's. what gameplay and stuff they're looking to inject and then how it makes sense for them to get there. Right.
Speaker: Yeah. but What's your justification for doing that? Oh, we're all, we can't go to this thing, but we can go to this thing. Yeah. But also, the festival that's happening tomorrow per the game, not actually tomorrow, um, is mentioned throughout like multiple episodes, I think. Right. Right.
Speaker: so like Hey, we have a festival coming up. like Who wants to go? Right. this is continuity, too. It's not just something you spot you're always writing forward. Oh, look, a left turn. Uh-huh. Yeah.
Speaker: If only there was a left turn. okay. Yeah. And that is good. I mean, you do... I obviously haven't kept up with continuity again because it's been seven years.
Speaker: But... um It is something that I think people appreciate even more when you go back and you play through this start to finish. um And as there's more branching pads and things like that added on or different decisions.
Speaker: So for instance, My character party, not that good at fighting. They kind of suck at it. I also suck at it. So that compounds and becomes a self-defeating cycle.
Speaker: um And occasionally this game is like, you're going to have to actually fight though. to have to actually dodge something. I'm like, eh, I don't know if that's actually... Maybe... and hates all the hits. ahha just What if I just face tank everything?
Speaker: um Not advised. ah But I could have improved on that if I went back and optimized my party's equipment. Right? Like that is a mechanic here.
Speaker: It's not super advanced. I think you basically have like a weapon slot and then two armor slash accessory slots for each character. don't want say dumbed down, but like this so I didn't really change my gear throughout and I was fine.
Speaker: um I really don't think that's the focus I think it was like an initial, hey, this is an RPG. Hey, we can use um some degree of storytelling through the items themselves.
Speaker: But it is a part though, because like I was struggling in the second to last episode. Um, encounter cause it is a sort of an endurance, uh, fight. It takes a while.
Speaker: And I know that I could overcome that with just get good, right? I could be just be more skillful. Um, and, ah that would be one way to accommodate it But also I equipped a bunch of gear that's just like, oh, less armor, but more TP generation or something like that.
Speaker: um Like I have any ability to just graze shots and not get shot in the face. um And yeah, I was really struggling to be completely honest.
Speaker: So there is also some value to if you want to play this game and have an easier time of it. Um, it's not a bad idea to spend a little bit of time optimizing your characters. Make sure you have some defense stats, things like that.
Speaker: Um, like you said, not absolutely necessary, like necessary. And for the gaming gods who are really good at bullet hell games, probably not and necessary at all. But had, I had some times where I was like, I wish I could go back a little bit in time and grab more healing items or something like that.
Speaker: Um, Yeah, it sucks when you're struggling with a section and you're like, oh, I brought, you know, three potions and a Pokeball. Now what? They're like, well, you've already used two potions, so figure that shit out.
Speaker: I'm not fighting a Pokemon, but I guess I'll try. um So, yeah, I mean, i guess going into the gameplay itself, it is very diverse.
Speaker: There's a lot of... um lot of inspiration taken from... i said Rory aware earlier. i think that's that's honestly on point for me. And unfortunately, that's just a really good...
Speaker: starting point for sort of like miscellaneous minigame type ah type types of games I guess Mario Party would also be like a decent comparison they literally do the screen split thing with like oh here's Chris and here's what I'll say and here's Susie and they're playing rock band or something like that um I went for that instead of Guitar Hero or for some reason I guess screw Xbox and Well, I mean, they have vocals, so there you go. you yeah um
Speaker: But I enjoyed some of those, some of those more than others. um There were some points where I was like, when I was just traversing like the RPG map and things like that, I was like, I wish this was a little bit faster.
Speaker: um In particular, the ah the boat out to like Lover's Isle or whatever it was, the little island shaped like a heart. aye you have to like transition several tiles to get out there and then several tiles back.
Speaker: Um, and it was entertaining enough when she show up, but part of me is like, I wish the pace was just a little bit faster in these moments, but that's just me in the moment. I think the game itself has pretty good pacing.
Speaker: Um, um, I enjoyed it. I warmed up to the minigames more. Was there one that you were of like, oh, this is my shit? Because for me, i really dug the Rock Band section. I was say same. And then I have that on Spotify now.
Speaker: I think part of it is that's like, I'm not good at it necessarily. And Dave dave watched me play, so he go to say he could back me up on this. um Not the best it. the the the rhythm game but it is the most engaging because every track basically in these games is a banger and they always have been it's one of the pillars essentially of the delta rune undertale universe and so I would absolutely load one of these up and put it in a rhythm game anyways. Right. Like, you know how many people have played audio surf to like a megalovania?
Speaker: Everyone, every single person on the planet has done that at some point. Yeah, I remember college. yeah So like ah naturally just putting that into the game was a stroke of genius.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. um I also really like, sorry, what was the one that you liked? like was on i I was just stealing the exact same answer because that was my favorite. I also remember there the shooting section, which is like a little ah pop-up thing where you have to... Like if you played Whack-A-Mole, it's like that, but with guns.
Speaker: It's very reminiscent of like a SNES type game, but a little bit more responsive than that. That was one of the ones where I was like, I wish I was using a controller instead of keyboard and input because like the direction for where you aim the gun is based off of the eight directions um from center.
Speaker: It's a little three by three. Yeah, it's a three by three. And if you want to get like the top right square, you need to shoot in the top right. You got to hold up and to the right on keyboard. um Whereas if this was just like ah controller I assume you just flick the stick or something like that, which is a little bit more natural of a um an input.
Speaker: um That is the most specific gripe I'll mention. But I definitely, especially once it started to speed up, struggled a little bit more with that game.
Speaker: um But it was cool.
Speaker: It was cool. I like when... I mean, I think they do it pretty consistently anyway, but I don't feel like any point of Deltarune, especially chapter three, is like, oh, I have to do the same shit again.
Speaker: It's like a new thing each time. Certain things might be called back on like, hey, you've done this once, you how do this again? Right. I guess I disagree.
Speaker: da's like As so far as like you think ah it is recycling stuff more or you don't think it's that fresh from moment to moment. I think within the chapter, they they specifically do have you start to replay games.
Speaker: They're doing this thing where the characters are growing frustrated that they're being hit with round after round of game show. um And they change some of the mechanics a little bit. But I think even on the development side, they know, hey, these are mini games.
Speaker: And if you have people play the same mini game too long, they're not going to enjoy it anymore. Right. Like you can only play Dig Dug so long. Right. And not that that's one of these, but that's an example.
Speaker: Um, and so as the characters are getting tired of doing the same mini games, I think the player is probably also in the same spot where it's just like, I want to see what the next thing is.
Speaker: I want to get out of this. I'm stuck in a purgatory. It's a little dangerous to, to do that because you have to be very cautious, right? You don't want, players to be actively disenjoying on and unenjoyed disenjoyed not enjoying their time with the game um unless you can get them in that headspace and then relieve it by introducing a twist and i think they do that they did that for me at least i was like i've jumped over enough fire ah um or something like that um for me i just need like the slightest bit of
Speaker: progression to happen or the the indication that progression will happen yeah so like near automata you play through multiple times it's not like you play the full game through three to five times there's other things that happens different paths certain things are shorter but because i started to see that variety and i was interested in the story I was very much easy to be like, oh yeah, i want to see more of stuff. I'm willing to play through to get more of that stuff. Right.
Speaker: They introduced novelty. Yeah. But if you're specifically as a player, you're like, this is not novel. I'm not curious to proceed. i mean, think about any game you've shown to a friend.
Speaker: yeah hey, this is cool, like this one part. And they get frustrated at something and then are kind of like pulled out You're like, well, wait, just a minute. Episode three. Slow down. Yeah. You got to give it three episodes. Know if it's good.
Speaker: Yeah. I mean, my evidence for fact... the fact or I shouldn't say the fact, the reason I think that they were thinking about this in development is the, the final round, basically when it's just, um, 10 on the horizontal track of just going to the next encounter and the next encounter and the next encounter is just designed to be like, Hey, the world is coming apart at the seams.
Speaker: Um, like this is just a desperate attempt to keep our protagonists from actually progressing beyond the game show. Um, The world is literally on fire inside of the game.
Speaker: um And the encounters are desperate. And i it's it's very clear that at this point, at least, you're in the same mindset as the characters. Like, you are stuck here and you need to get out.
Speaker: And repetitive gameplay is a good way to make people feel stuck. um So they do that a little bit. But at the same time, to what you were saying, the narrative track is accelerating during this time, right?
Speaker: Like, you know that you're building to a conclusion narratively, even though the gameplay in these mini games might be derivative. is it So that's a smart gameplay decision decision to keep people engaged on one track where the other track might not be the most engaging, right?
Speaker: So... I meant to be a lot more critical about this game, but I failed to do so. So in the podcast, I like how anytime you said like, oh, was probably my headspace at the time.
Speaker: And i'm not sure it's because if it's because I'm on video. And if you say something negative, you think I'm going to be like, fuck you, Jake. Uh-huh. Yeah. Which I will. But again, you shouldn't care about my opinion because. OK. You had your own experience. I had my own experience. will you do this Jake unfiltered. Uh-huh.
Speaker: But no, I'm not going to say that ah it is a perfect game by any means, but I do like a lot of their design design choices as far as, as you were saying with pacing, that's not even something that I had really considered as far as trying to get you in the same place as the characters.
Speaker: Right. um But yeah, it does do that pretty well. um They had to have, right? Because almost the entire game just... just actually this TV game show.
Speaker: It's not, if you had the belief that chapter three was going to be the TV game show portion followed by the rest of exploring the dark world and leading to the dark fountain, you would be disappointed in what happens in chapter three.
Speaker: Yeah. ah Chapter three is definitely, it kind of bookends itself.
Speaker: It's like, Hey, ah your experiences within here, Yeah. Yeah. um But they tap into that overarching narrative.
Speaker: Right. So we mentioned that this is a game show that's ongoing. um But from those snippets of overheard conversations, the the calls that Mr. Ten has been getting um you. I think they even let slip early that the the roaring night is behind this. Right.
Speaker: the name comes up at least once. It came up once in my playthrough. So I think the understanding at the time in the game is that the Roaring Knight has been the one to open these previous Dark Worlds, whereas this one specifically, Chris opened up in the middle of the night at the end of Chapter 2 in the living room.
Speaker: Gotcha, gotcha. That makes sense. For everything that happened, how Toriel's down there. Yeah, because um essentially everything in that area, room, not sure exactly how they decide it.
Speaker: um But Tenna is actually their TV. Right. Toriel is Toriel, presumably. a sleep in a rocking chair. Yeah.
Speaker: But we don't really even know um Tenna's motivations at this point, do we? is that something you picked up on? um There was there's there's some information that's given later, but you do get to tell basically that someone is having Tenna keep the characters from proceeding.
Speaker: At least I can't remember the first time the roaring knight is mentioned. It might be around when. you um when you find Toriel the first time in her Pokeball next to a Christmas tree.
Speaker: But basically there's this sealed off room, the like Mr. Tenna's personal rooms in the be behind the stage essentially for the game show and You go back there and find out that Toriel is the secret prize or whatever for completing all of this.
Speaker: But ah he never wants you to actually complete all of this. He's going to keep doing bonus rounds or encores or anything like that um to keep her held hostage. um And at some point you learn the knowledge. It's on the behest of the Roaring Knight.
Speaker: Who, by the way, badass. Yeah. pretty badass you know the character this reminds me a lot of actually is um the crap he's not actually called the hollow knight but the boss of hollow knight one of the bosses of hollow knight um i gotta not spoil that game in real time anyways there is hollow knight is the boss the but the boss yes is he called hollow knight
Speaker: in the game. He is. Okay. Cause you're the night, right? Um, but especially like the lean back and roar animation that they love to do and hollow night.
Speaker: Um, I was just like right there. That's a hollow night bus. I swear that came from a Jojo fighter game 25 years ago. but like the Dio pose is kind of like held up.
Speaker: It's nice. Exactly what it is. It's the Dio pose. Um, Yeah, he's metal AF and it's a big tonal shift if you're just doing normal route stuff um to go up against this boss.
Speaker: Because this has been and antagonist that's been kind of only rumored in myth and hushed whispers throughout the previous stuff in these games. So to actually now see them was theyre like, oh, this thing is real.
Speaker: Yeah. How do we deal with it? And it's insanely strong. yeah it's it's kind of a weird take even for this series because it's essentially a secret boss more or less but it's a mandatory secret boss but it's a mandatory secret boss that apparently you don't have to beat and he's going to defeat everyone essentially on the first first try did you beat him on your playthrough Oh, God, no.
Speaker: I was like, because it looked like a lot. It looks like everyone will die immediately. mean, I know you can survive the attack. Like, there are holes in things to be able maneuver, etc.
Speaker: Yeah, um it's an absolute skill check. But yeah, I think in general, the majority of people are just going to get their ass beat and get and get the the same ending. He has a lot of moves that are exactly exactly the same or incredibly similar to Sans.
Speaker: Yeah. From genocide undertale, like the same patterns. And he uses, um they're, they're like small swords is the the model, but it has the exact same attack pattern is like the gaster blaster that Sands uses.
Speaker: And I'm like concerning, right? Cause with undertale, you don't know in Delta run. You're like, Is there a reason that these are the same things? Because if this was someone else, you'd just be this is just laziness or reusing assets or something.
Speaker: Yeah. So I will say it does get extended a little bit more in chapter four. But there's still a lot of discussion going around on the subreddits and the community as far as the identity of the Roaring Knight.
Speaker: Yeah. Because I don't think anything is confirmed in either chapter. hmm. But with the information that's available, you can definitely spin up a few theories. Right. um I'm currently with the majority theory.
Speaker: Right. And I'll leave it at that for now. But it's... It is Toby Fox himself. The overall agreed one on the subreddit. That's fair. Yeah. Yeah, we'll see. I got to finish. I got to start and finish chapter four. Yeah.
Speaker: So i can I can catch up on the theories and what's going on there. But I will say um one thing with the Roaring Knight is kind of like an homage or like an example of what they've done in Mega Man X where they show you this boss character who like beats the shit out of you yes early on. It's like, hey, this is what you're going to have to deal with. You're like, I'm not equipped for that. And it's like, right, you are definitely not equipped for this.
Speaker: Uh-huh. And then i guess the the presumption is you're going to get stronger as you go so that later when you do encounter them, you're like, I'm ready.
Speaker: Which would work, except if you're doing normal slash pacifist playthrough, as you know, level ah you do not get stronger in these types of games.
Speaker: So there's going to have to be like the power of heart or love or friendship or something. We're going to need a MacGuffin. That's the only way we're beating that guy legit. Also, not to go full rabbit hole theory, but at this point in the game, having played three chapters, granted over a span of time, where do you think this fits in with Undertale? Or do you think it's just using that world and it's not actually...
Speaker: Directly tied to Undertale. Yeah. I mean... Full answer, I don't know. right we Full disclosure, we talked about this slightly before the start of the recording, and in the interim time, I have not reached a conclusion.
Speaker: um There are closer ties to Undertale, and the Steam page, I think, is actually... It was literally updated from when it was first announced back then to say that this is a um an adventure to some degree coinciding with undertale. I'm going to look up the exact terminology here. So the fan base doesn't kill me.
Speaker: ah Cause they have not me, but like other people. um ah Yes. ah Dive into the parallel story to undertale is what this is called.
Speaker: So according to the steam page, this is to some degree parallel. Hmm. But is that parallel in theming? Is that parallel in time?
Speaker: um We're not sure. And i I don't know. But I think there will be a convergence. So that's my hope. With the information that I have, because I have played Chapter 4, won't go into it, but I do think that this is a prequel to some degree i am hoping for that convergence point as well whether it's a have four more chapters right so yeah there might be a very like a thing where it's like oh this is the obvious connection yeah yeah i'm very curious to see where it goes because everything about it with the writing just has me so invested in the story and i want to know what's going on
Speaker: there's a lot of ah There's a lot of signposts we could keep an eye out for to see if Convergence is going to become more or less likely, right? Like our characters that are shared between Undertale and Deltarune.
Speaker: Is it just Toriel, basically? I think that's the only one I remember. Hasgore? Is that as i is also in Undine? Oh, you're right. now Oh, yeah, absolutely. Almost all those characters. Never mind. Literally every character. Literally everybody. Yeah. um
Speaker: If they start ending up in the same places that they were at when Undertale happened, then you're going to be like, OK, we are building to ah convergence where the end of Delta Rune or at least a midpoint 75 percent point in Delta Rune is going to line up with right what happened and and in Undertale which happened chronologically very quickly Undertale was kind of just like snap and Frisk just showed up someday did a lot of either good or terrible things i and then there was a conclusion
Speaker: don't What are your theory? I guess you said you you match the theory. You have some more information. or do you agree we're kind of building to a convergence or do you think something else is going on here?
Speaker: I have a theory. um The one I share with you, I'll share again because it's not a spoiler thing. One of my thoughts and theories, I have not compared with the subreddit for this, is that the world of Undertale in its entirety is a dark world.
Speaker: um that's it that's really all i got um the other one point which is an obvious like oh this is a tie-in is ah the logo for deltaroon is in undertale right and also you know is the same letters undertale just uh rearrange anagram thank you um
Speaker: So again, that could just be for like a loose time. Like, hey, here's more stuff in that same vein, same universe. um But the way it's ah spoken about makes it seem like more so mythos or something from an age past, h which would again lead towards the, oh maybe Deltarune is a prequel.
Speaker: Right. That leads into Undertale. Yeah. I don't know. I think there's a lot of there's probably a lot of evidence for that, actually, in just how Undertale works. If these are the same characters and this is because one of the questions we had when we started was, is this alternate universe stuff, which is one of the least interesting tropes for me.
Speaker: It's like, OK, this in this story arc, all these characters start here and they end up here. OK, in this arc, all these characters start here and they end up here. I'm like, OK, fine, whatever. it It feels like when people do that, it's like a choose your own adventure thing. There's no true canon. Like, here's what we intended for the ending. Here's the actual plot points of the game and story points that played out.
Speaker: It's, um, do you want them to fall love and be happy? Here you go. Do you want everybody to die? And what's the, this way? Here's the everybody dies arc. It's kind of like lazy at for me. I'm just going to personally attack some people.
Speaker: um It's kind of just lazy writing or it's writing with training wheels because you have to like continue to shift your start point. And it's like, yeah, obviously, if you're a writer and you get to pick where you start every time, it's going to be a lot easier than building established continuity.
Speaker: But yeah, i think we're I think we're going for Convergence. This is a full full dead space. if it We're all just building towards Convergence. We're waiting for the Convergence mod for Undertale.
Speaker: If you thought Undertale was too easy, check this one out. Oh yeah, also, what do you want if you think Undertale is too easy? Because... He's just just got to play the the dark routes, um which we didn't really talk about too much. Maybe we'll dive more into all of the the dark route shenanigans or weird route shenanigans for the next chapter.
Speaker: i would say for anybody who's checking this out, play as you normally would. And then look up some stuff on YouTube after the fact, or if you're really curious and you want to push all the buttons, ah do every possible option, just go back and play through it again.
Speaker: It's not a terribly long game as far as the chapters are concerned. Four hours a piece, give or take a little change.
Speaker: So yeah. Yeah. Also read, read, read the description on Delta on Steam because it's just hilarious. Um,
Speaker: There are so many things that are just... It's the most meta nonsense. I'm just gonna... These are some of the bullet points under Featuring.
Speaker: um i Javelishly difficult hidden bosses. Another bullet point and ellipsis. Another bullet point, a second ellipsis.
Speaker: Another bullet point, ellipsis, only one ending? Ellipsis? Question mark. Like... It's absolutely unhinged nonsense. And even the rest of this has like end paragraph HTML markers and things like that.
Speaker: It's insane. It's actually insane.
Speaker: the The indentation is messed up. It's like... It's it's like CS101 Dreamweaver web design nonsense. sense And it just... It's very funny for a game with 44,000 recent reviews.
Speaker: And it's overwhelmingly positive. So don't take our word for it. Reading Rainbow. ah bu ah but Yeah, I think...
Speaker: ah from like a complete outsider perspective, I think you can look at Delta Rune as an anime where at face value, you're like, I don't see what people see about it.
Speaker: Um, but if you play this stuff and then get interested in the characters, the writing, the storytelling, um, the music, the, the other things.
Speaker: Yeah. Then, yeah, it's a lot easier to get into the universe and you start to appreciate more and more. But also if it doesn't catch you, if it doesn't hook you, that's fine. We don't have to be friends, you know?
Speaker: I mean, we should be. right if you're If you're on the fence for this one, play Undertale. We know you haven't done it yet. Or if you haven't done it, or if you have done it, you can just do it again. Until July 10th, it's $2.49 on Steam. Oh, that's it.
Speaker: oh hats it So for a tenth of the price of the other game, Yeah, it's a tenth. Okay, a tenth of the price of Deltarune. You can see if you would like all of this by starting with Undertale, which is a full experience, right? Let's start to end, no chapters.
Speaker: Obviously, we recommend both. Yes, but yeah. yeah That is, i guess, any any final thoughts? Or is that it for Deltarune for now? We'll circle back once we're ready for the next episode.
Speaker: I think I'm talked to on Chapter 3. Sure.
Speaker: There are cool nuances and stuff you can pick up on. I had to get some of it from YouTube because occasionally I'll be very blind ah to some stuff. These games also have tons of secrets.
Speaker: Yes. Like I looked up some secrets, still my secrets. Uh, no, it's, it's very much the type of game where it's like, okay, you played through. All right. Now do you want to know everything else that was in the shadows when you played through here?
Speaker: Um, good stuff. Pick it up. Great game. We'll circle back next time. As always, ah you can send your feedback in.
Speaker: Drop that to wherever we're at in the socials. Blue Sky, email, things like that. um And otherwise, then we'll follow up with the another the another another episode for week.
Speaker: for chapter four next week Not next week. Next, two weeks away. That's how we do this now. um As always, we'll see in the next one.
Speaker: Have a good night. Clean.
