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00:00:01
Variety Hour at the Soapstone
11 Plays9 days ago
Join Dave and Jake as they talk about the end of Destiny 2, shine a spotlight some standout indie games, talk about buying Subnautica 2...and then just replaying 1, looking forward to Alan Wake 2 releasing somewhere Jake can play it, and more in this week's episode!
Indie spotlight:
- POCO (steam - free!)
- Z.A.T.O. // I Love the World and Everything In It (steam - free!)
- Metro Gravity (steam)
Intro:
- Subnautica 2 - Shallows
Outro:
- Poco - Cave Rave (it's so good we used it twice)
Thoughts? Comments? Requests for new episodes? Feel free to email them in!
SoapstonePodcast@gmail.com
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Transcript
Introduction and Light Banter
00:00:35
Speaker
How's it going, and everyone? Welcome to another episode of Soapstone. My name is Jake, and I am joined by my co-host, as always, Dave. How's the weather looking out there, Dave? It's windy. I haven't been outside yet. There you go We opened up pretty much the entire house. um Yesterday.
00:00:53
Speaker
Today. It's not too early. Like it's not the most when it's not a windstorm out right now know where I'm at. um As you know, we're situated in very distant different locations across the country. Impossible to docks or find.
00:01:07
Speaker
um But yeah, nice day. House is all opened up. We've got stuff pushed against the doors so like they won't slam shut due to the pressure differential. um And I'm inside. So I'm in my element.
00:01:22
Speaker
and In a basement, actually. As far removed from the nice weather as can Getting none of the air going through. Yeah. yeah I remembered that I have a screen door on the back door yesterday. so i just opened that and It was nice having the breeze come through. You smell some of nature. Here's some of the birds. Mm hmm.
00:01:44
Speaker
And then at a point, granted, like three hours later, Mike, there's a lot of birds of nature going on. Maybe we close this door. Right. Do you have does your screen door have that little piston thing where you can like drag the slider to to have it hold itself open?
00:02:00
Speaker
Or is it you mean like a lock on the bottom? Yeah, it's it's like a variable lock on the bottom. Because I don't think so. This seems like very much aluminum and mesh. That's fair. That's fair. Yeah.
00:02:15
Speaker
Yeah, I definitely have my grievances with the sheer number of birds that can be out this time of the year, especially like early morning, because sometimes they're like, you know what? I just get a feeling that the sun is going to rise in a couple hours. And I think now is the time to start popping up. i Got to get people ready.
00:02:36
Speaker
Well, Jake, actually, if you find that to be a problem, there's one trick I can show you that involves only one rock. Oh, that's good. Or stone, rather. the the ah the The rebounding rock or the ricochet rock. upper program Yeah, the actual answer, this is the true life hack. We'll we'll throw it in at the beginning of the episode instead of the end is to have some sort of ambient noise generation.
Nature Sounds and Noise Management
00:03:03
Speaker
um For us, it's just we run a fan or something that might be a little bit louder, but legitimately you could pick your favorite flavor of ah white noise, brown noise, pink noise, whatever. um play that i will usually put on rainy mood if i need to kind of like lock in and relax oh yeah kind of white noises over everything or if for some reason that site's down i'll just feed the dog lots of beans have her sitting nearby yeah drown out the birds but with a low low price of uh suffocating to death you have solved the auditory issues um
00:03:42
Speaker
That is fair. She sounds like a flaming balloon. She's running around. Puppy, come back. i had the The visual of the This is just like a cartoon basically but the dog is like actually flying into the air through the sheer force of everything going on You gotta like turn a wrapper off the ceiling I love the cartoony idea of like the dog like kind of like doing that spiral motion with the balloon because it's not like it's gonna go in a straight direction that of course not facing um
00:04:12
Speaker
ah Incredible But in lighter news, jumping right into what we've got planned for today, Destiny 2.
Destiny 2 and Bungie's Future Plans
00:04:22
Speaker
We're done. Don't have to worry about it anymore.
00:04:25
Speaker
Destiny three finally. now Don't development on two. huh. That was the number one question when the. um What is it called? Like the triumph or something like that is what they're calling moment of triumph. That's the last update for destiny, too, which is a it's kind of turning a hey we're going to have to fire a lot of people into like a kind of backpack as far as the vibes for the community is concerned, I guess.
00:04:52
Speaker
But yeah, CCing updates are going to have a final update. A lot of really big changes they're taking. Like, actually, they're hitting a whole lot of quality of life improvements. The community has been asking for making a lot of weapons viable, bunch of stuff like that.
00:05:09
Speaker
um i guess they're trying to delay I think what they're doing is like in the past, one of the issues with Destiny is they've had to like kind of hold back um content that they had prepared because they needed to sprinkle it through the next like content route. They had to have these deliverables basically. ah And so now they're just like, well, here's the common question rather than looking towards the future. Like, how do we make the game good in its current state?
00:05:41
Speaker
And then like in it's like, how how how can we make it the best it can be for where it's at today without you know looking towards the future? And ah it's kind of a hot take, but maybe maybe they should have been doing a little bit of that along the way. In development terms, this is called hardening sprint. Maybe multiple.
00:06:04
Speaker
Exactly. um but yeah, it's going to continue to be available at least until it's not. We know how live service games work.
00:06:15
Speaker
Made it nine years, which is pretty good run. Everyone was asking, you know, does this mean Destiny 3 is coming? um and then industry insiders were like, well, some things were proposed. You know, we had some ideas. There's brainstorming sessions, but like nothing actually exists as far as like in progress plans for anything else with Destiny as far as I know. So.
Marathon Game Dynamics
00:06:43
Speaker
yeah I don't know what you'd have to do at this point because it it does have a lot of content in it yeah as far as areas, raids, um variety of weapons, characters, whatnot.
00:06:58
Speaker
They stopped sunsetting the expansions a while ago. So like some of the last content that um that we played through when you were in the game, um you know, around. I was an NPC on the moon for everybody. Yes, you can still find Dave actually in the game.
00:07:16
Speaker
um The moon exists as a ah point of interest. I can't remember if the expansion ever came back. Like you can visit the moon still.
00:07:27
Speaker
Um, but I don't think the campaign is there. i'm not a hundred percent sure. I know that the forsaken and older stuff is gone. Red war was obviously gone, but decent amount of content in the game for sure. It's just, it's not going to have, if you're a content creator, a destiny content creator, and I was following many of them, right?
00:07:47
Speaker
You've posted your thoughts on this at this point. And now it's like, all right, what's the next thing, right? Like, how are you now going to be financially stable? Because you're probably not going to be making content for a game that is not making content anymore. ah But yeah, I don't know. ah Big question marks for Bungie. We'll see where they come out of it. You know, obviously they still have a lot of investment in Marathon, which is going to be starting its second season pretty soon.
00:08:17
Speaker
do you think that's going to pick up at all? I mean, it could. they They've talked about some ideas for Marathon that are a little more interesting to me. Like they they said they were going to experiment with like PVE modes um instead of just putting all the eggs in the PVP basket.
00:08:36
Speaker
um They have also like even in the first season played around with trying to reduce the um lethality or what would be the viciousness the bloodthirst that's present in marathon but like at launch and through probably today is my my current understanding i haven't put a bunch of time in the game recently but like marathon is known as the shoot first extraction shooter like oh really it is the exact opposite of arc raiders basically where it's like
00:09:10
Speaker
In arc writers, it's actually confirmed that if you kill other players, you'll be put into matches with other players that kill other players. So the community naturally kind of like separated into PvE friendly and then people who maybe sometimes do a little bit of PvP and then like the bloodthirst.
00:09:29
Speaker
Yeah. Marathon was just like time to kill is really low. You can't really trust people. If you trust somebody at the wrong time, you're dead. basically and a marathon. Do they have anything that is PvE or is it all just PvP and you're scavenging for things?
00:09:48
Speaker
I mean, there's a lot of like PV enemies in Marathon. The UESC is like the ah the occupying robotic force or whatever on Tau Ceti, the planet for Tau Ceti, because it's four or five. Nobody cares. But I mean, like, is it an actual threat that people need to work together for like arc raiders? They have some of them, but not to the same extent. okay Like.
00:10:14
Speaker
they'll have their They'll have like um elites, basically, which might take either one person with some dedicated effort or like a squad to take down. And then they will occasionally have like a sort of like raid boss-esque enemy with a bunch of health and a bunch of shields. And it'll broadcast when people are fighting them. So it's a big risk. And you could, and maybe in some cases should, group up to, you know, kill one of those.
00:10:39
Speaker
But then you're like, okay, we got to split loot. All of this is about the PvP diplomacy, right? um But then they do have like an end game area where it's like you have to get your extraction shooter key. And then there's like apparently an actual sort of raid boss.
00:10:55
Speaker
And there are stories of players all grouping up to to fight that and then just splitting the blue pinata results. um But. It's all ad hoc. That's the issue,
Multiplayer vs Single-player Games
00:11:07
Speaker
right? Is you're not like you have committed to be allies with this person, and now you cannot shoot each other, which is what like a PVE game would do.
00:11:16
Speaker
Just like turn off friendly fire or something. um So hilarious things have happened. Like they added. um They gave, i think, Rooks, which are kind of like the solo class, like all revive kits that you can use on other players.
00:11:32
Speaker
So if you down another player, you can be like, hey, like, going to be cool. Be chill. Be chill, man. You know, it's actually Pulp Fiction, right? Like, be cool, man. Be cool. um And then potentially revive them.
00:11:46
Speaker
um And you would get, like, more bonus rewards if you extracted with them at the end of the match. But... Marathon is a very bloodthirsty community.
00:11:57
Speaker
So can you guess what people would do if given the option to revive their opponent and revive their opponent? That is that is the less bloodthirsty option. The more bloodthirsty option is revive them to kill them again. Literally just to be a douchebag. Oh, and yeah, so there is a stop the car. OK, I'll stop the car.
00:12:25
Speaker
um So, yeah, it's it's it's an interesting atmosphere, but, I mean, clearly very different than Destiny. And there are a lot of Destiny players that have no interest in playing Marathon because it's, you know, primarily. It's a different type of game entirely. Yeah, it's a PvP game. so And they didn't aim to do PvE-type stuff, and that was the primary draw for most of Destiny. so We'll see. We'll I don't think it's a hot take to say games that i have multiplayer are going to outperform long-term ah games than games with single player. Because I think a lot of people who want to play games is to play with other people.
00:13:09
Speaker
Sure. There's some people obviously love like they're a nice like cozy single player experience or they just want to lock in for the story um and they'll play something offline and what have you.
00:13:20
Speaker
Yeah. But... Majority of the games that I play are with people. Mm-hmm. I'm sure that's true for a lot of other people as well. You're looking for that group. i think I think that's definitely true, especially like in the live service space. But it's clear that single-player games can also be successful, right? Like Skyrim. I'm not saying... Single-player game. They're bad or do bad, but... Elden Ring, it it it has multiplayer, but generally you would categorize it as a solo type of game.
00:13:52
Speaker
But I mean... So back in the day, i got to now readjust my seat to talk with my hands. um Dave is attaching a beard right now. Back in the game, they primarily just had single player for games and multiplayer was like a little bonus thing you could do on the side locally with friends.
00:14:13
Speaker
You play through the campaign one. Cool. I know what that is. Don't you do that ever again? But the fun was from having those experiences and interactions with somebody else who you knew, who you could fuck around with, play against bots. Maybe you look at their screen.
00:14:30
Speaker
ah But all of it was from the joy of playing with somebody else. Yeah. A social experience. Mm hmm. And it's for a single-player game. It's you versus everything else in the game Mm-hmm. So when you're introducing another person you're like, oh, when this is my my buddy It's us against the world right and they're like no no no you have to kill each other Okay So then I'm always going to assume that they're going to steal therefore. I should shoot them.
00:14:59
Speaker
Yeah And like For Marathon specifically, you you can queue up in a party, in which case you're probably not killing your friends because you're not incentivized to at all.
00:15:11
Speaker
um But like... Yeah, it is. They're completely different vibes, like you're saying. And I don't know. I don't know where it's going to go So we'll
Subnautica 2 Early Access and Krafton Deal
00:15:24
Speaker
see. There's lots of coverage out there for people who are interested to kind of see the downfall of Destiny or call it the moment of triumph or whatever you want to do.
00:15:33
Speaker
But it's a long time coming and um many thousands of hours spent in that game. So.
00:15:43
Speaker
All good things must come to an end. And also destiny too. Will come to an end. Cover your ears for that next part. going to do a three gun salute. And it's in super loud. Bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. It's just like ratatatio.
00:16:02
Speaker
ah All right. Next one kind of informational, but Subnautica 2 launched early access. Don't know if we called that out ah or not. um it remains a financial problem for the publisher as at this point it's pretty much locked in i think that they got to do the 250 million dollar payout or whatever it was um which apparently is about a third of the publisher's expected revenue for the year um which is bad as a business deal. You really shouldn't do it. Who's getting 250 mil? So the developers, the the lead developers or the CEO,
00:16:42
Speaker
ah ah CEOs for um the developer of Subnautica made a deal when they were acquired by the publisher. um So Krafton is the publisher, Unknown Worlds is the developer.
00:16:58
Speaker
um And they were like, they were basically in negotiations. This is kind of conjecture because we don't know really what happened behind the scenes. But after the success of Subnautica 1, Krafton was like, we want them. We want to claim that developer.
00:17:11
Speaker
And the CEO of Krafton was like, I'm going to make you guys a bet, basically, because that's really the only way you could describe this. I'm going to make you a bet. um I think you guys will be successful, but you're not going to be wildly successful.
00:17:26
Speaker
So we'll do like our standard payout arrangement or whatever. But rather than just like buying your studio, and giving you a bunch of money now, we're going to acquire you.
00:17:37
Speaker
And then if you hit this, you know, ah millions of dollars ah goal in and sales, then you guys will get like a royalty payout basically of ah like $250 million dollars from us, the publisher.
00:17:53
Speaker
um But presumably, we're not going to pay you as much upfront money to acquire your studio. So there's a risk here, right? The the publisher is basically making a risk that the next game is not going to be wildly successful.
00:18:06
Speaker
And the developer is taking a risk that they want it to be wildly successful in order to like really maximize this deal, which is weird. Full squint on that.
00:18:17
Speaker
Isn't that weird? Like, because it's a perverse incentive now in a way you actually have your developer and your publisher with opposing goals for what you want to see out of the game. Um,
00:18:30
Speaker
Yeah, it kind of feels like insurance a little bit where I'd rather do the immediate exchange of things and be like, oh, we know what it is. And now that transaction is done ah versus having like a lingering conditional like that.
00:18:45
Speaker
Yeah, because like, let's say it doesn't perform that they don't get that bonus.
00:18:52
Speaker
What do they just have nothing except being owned by? The publisher? i the publisher Yeah, i had to i had to look at this. So there still was like a standard publishing contract in play. So it said crafting for a portion of sales will pay Unknown World $3 and some change for every $1 in sales um if they hit this goal, basically, which is literally just
00:19:24
Speaker
crazy right like they're they're paying more money than the game is actually bringing in for them which is probably the reason that the publisher wanted to get out of this and that's why they consulted chat gpt and then they just ousted the ceos and then there's the thing in court and the ceos came back oh that's okay i forgot about that story but now it's uh it's connecting some of those dots so yeah it's pretty pretty crazy um that this was the outcome. And I have no idea what what the decision making was that led into this. But now that I know more of the story, I understand why the publisher was trying to escape it.
00:20:04
Speaker
He basically, like the CEO had said, like, he felt like he had been he had gotten a bad deal or been made a fool of or something like that. I don't remember the exact translation.
00:20:14
Speaker
which was true it was classic rich white guy behavior of like oh i'm gonna do something because i think it'll be cool oh i'm gonna be losing money actually no this never never happened ont unless you're talking about Yeah, ah most people learn this like as a child, but there's this um there's a legal term called no take backsies.
00:20:39
Speaker
Yeah. of So anyways, a lot of people, kind of including myself, bought Subnautica 2 when it came out in early access because it's not an expensive game. It's like 30 bucks or something.
00:20:53
Speaker
um I have not installed or maybe I've installed it, but I haven't played it. I've never launched it. Instead, I was just like, I'm kind of feeling like playing Subnautica, so I'll just play Subnautica one. um And I want to wait until Subnautica two cooks. Apparently there's like 20 hours of content or something in it. But um and it's it's reviewed very well. It's got very positive reviews, but they are doing the kind of like episodic release where they're going to be unlocking more of the main story as they get through early access.
Early Access Gaming Experiences
00:21:21
Speaker
And you don't want to.
00:21:23
Speaker
keep hopping back in yeah exactly i don't i don't want it to be an on again off again thing i also don't want to just play be super invested and then just run into the uh next time on dragon ball z wall where it's like this is this is as far as you can go in the story okay i guess i just grind and like build my base and have like a crazy setup so that the Yeah, I will say, um touching back on Hades 2, which had that early access thing that we've we've talked about many times, I found that when I went back to actually play the the full 1.0 they had added some other stuff, but I had, you know, built up currency over time from playing early runs and dicking around.
00:22:07
Speaker
And I bought a good portion of stuff. Like I was bankrolling. I'm like, yeah, I can afford that. I can afford it. babyp Give me that cosmetic. So if it felt kind of cool.
00:22:20
Speaker
So like my time before had not gone to waste entirely. Yeah, you can farm a little bit. You can grind a little bit. yeah It was definitely jarring to log in. You're like, oh, you can get all this.
00:22:33
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. It's also kind of different. it It can lead to a different experience between people who like played early access and then like had this massive buildup and resources and progress before each next phase drop and then sort of a natural gradual incline for someone who's only played the game after the full release or has a new save file. Yeah, it's probably the tuned better as well.
00:22:56
Speaker
Yeah. But for me, it's mostly just the pragmatic, like, um I don't want to tire myself out for a game and then have another patch drop and then be asking myself the question, do I jump back in or not? Like, for me, it's kind of similar to DLC launches for games that I've enjoyed. Right.
00:23:19
Speaker
Loved Doom 2016, you know, enjoyed ah Doom Eternal. I wouldn't say i loved it, but like I enjoyed it. It was good. It was a great game. um Maybe not amazing like I would consider 2016, but it was a great game.
00:23:32
Speaker
Did I care too much about the DLC for either of these games when they came in? Like, no, I might have bought it and don't think I ever played it.
00:23:43
Speaker
I feel like a lot of those things for a lot of people, it's so much easier to wait and then for them to have a complete edition later on. Yeah. To go on sale. Like if it's a game that's going to hold up, you honestly can just wait.
00:23:58
Speaker
Patient gamers. It is a I'm bad at it, but I respect the community. So not a bad way to do it um for sure.
00:24:10
Speaker
ah But yeah, once I actually get around to playing Subnautica 2, which will be probably a long time from now, I will share my impressions. It's multiplayer. That's the other thing. So I don't know exactly what I'm going to do for that.
00:24:22
Speaker
Yes, I think it's up to four people, which is crazy to me. Is it because that you're not being scared alone? Yeah. Like, we've talked about, like, the aspects of fear in horror games and what's actually required. And, like, the thing that is most...
00:24:42
Speaker
ah corrosive to an atmospheric horror context is the ability to have like a friend who's just a slightly removed from the situation laughing at you as you are facing the horror context.
00:24:59
Speaker
Like, what if you get abducted by a Leviathan? It just like, it like bites you like in the, in the teaser. So here's the thing, the teaser for the game, the teaser, that like launch teaser for Subnautica 2.
00:25:09
Speaker
It has some guy who's like mining and his friends are like being picked off by like Leviathans, almost like vaudeville style, you know, across the screen, you know, the cane comes out. Yeah, exactly.
00:25:26
Speaker
pulls it It is a sheep crook, isn't it? That's right. um And the tone of the trailer is whimsical. And that's what it would probably be in the game, too, because like someone would be freaking out. Everyone else would be laughing. That could be fun.
00:25:43
Speaker
That could be a good experience. Don't get me wrong. Yeah, of course. But it's a different thing than there are multiple Leviathan class life forms in your area. Are you sure whatever you're doing is worth it? Which is and a kon like a canonical voice line from Subnautica 1.
00:26:02
Speaker
So it's if I went back and played Amnesia, the Dark Descent, but I had somebody running around with me, ah completely different. So I'm not being stalked by a thing. It's now I'm going to be using my second guy as like bait as I kind of dash through him like, here's the quest item I need. um Or you try and do it to other. Okay, remember Portal 2 Co-op? Uh-huh, yep.
00:26:28
Speaker
It becomes you fucking over your friends because that's what's entertaining and funny, right? Yes. um But I would argue Portal 2 Co-op, not scary. Normally not, yeah.
00:26:39
Speaker
And even if you do have spooky elements in it, again, because of the other people, I think it's hard to maintain that. The fear element for Portal 2 becomes, will we reach a point where my co-op partner allows us to complete this puzzle? It's more existential horror than anything else. Stop the car. I'll stop the car. I'll stop the car, yeah.
00:27:04
Speaker
But we'll see. um I'm kind of just glad to see the publisher get screwed over here. They tried to screw over the developer, and there was like an Uno reverse. and um Yeah, so hopefully it's good.
Indie Game Highlights: Poco and Metro Gravity
00:27:18
Speaker
Poco. This is yours, Dave. What is Poco? A poal um ah Poco stick. Poco is the story of the world's smallest clown who is banished from the circus and finds himself in a mysterious undergrowth full of lost and broken things. okay Explore, meet strange creatures... so ah Basically, it's kind of like a point-and-click adventure game.
00:27:43
Speaker
and ah But it is very indie, very cute, entirely free. a little over like an hour of gameplay. But it for me, it subverted enough stuff and had enough charm whats to keep me going through.
00:27:59
Speaker
um so much so that i forced Jake into it. Like, hey you you have time on your hands. Let me... It is true. i got to interrupt you though and say for audience, for our audience, for listeners that are under 60 years old, what is a point and click adventure game?
00:28:18
Speaker
Oh, so I'm sure it has controller support as well. um But basically, you're looking at a scene and then clicking around to what's marked as ground to get around to different NPCs, move to different areas, which takes you between different screens. Yeah.
00:28:39
Speaker
Yeah. where um Where you left click with your mouse, you go typically or interact with. Yeah. Kind of single input style style gameplay, which now that I think about it, like I was making a joke because point and click adventure games have kind of been out of out of fashion since like Monkey Island. Yeah. yeah um But.
00:29:02
Speaker
You know, i bet that iPad babies probably have no problem converting over to point and click adventure games like that is. That's exactly what the type of user interface is for for that type of game. So egg on my face.
00:29:18
Speaker
It's fun. ah I agree with what Dave was doing, reading the Steam description verbatim. um That's pretty accurate to the game. It's got a lot of.
00:29:31
Speaker
a character to it and it really is just such a throwback to like those types of games um yeah a lot of it's like older 3d type models where it's lower polygon count overall it's not like a low poly type thing um but it reminds me of early type type
00:29:58
Speaker
I don't want to say like Resident Evil, but like it is a here's your background screen and then here's your foreground. We're moving. Yeah, I think we briefly we must have briefly mentioned it in the last episode because I'm remembering now that we had a link to it in the show notes.
00:30:14
Speaker
That's what we were talking about last time. But i don't believe we talked about it really in depth. And it's probably not necessary because like you said, it's a short game. It's not a heavy commitment. I'm still surprised that it's free like.
00:30:28
Speaker
normally that is concerning almost, I guess. Like, why why is it free? Yeah, and it's like the full game. yeah It's not a crazy long game, like we said, but still very atypical.
00:30:43
Speaker
Yeah, because it's also not like... It's not the most indie indie efforts. Like, the graphics are pretty good, and the music is is actually quite good. um And there's animations and things in there that...
00:30:57
Speaker
And there are credits like people. People definitely spent some time working on this for no money is what you're telling. i don't I don't know. I don't know. But it was definitely made with some love.
00:31:10
Speaker
That is true. and There's also two two funny parts that really stood out for me in the game, which I can't spoil. um But just know they're there.
00:31:21
Speaker
They are there. So if you've laughed twice, you've played the same game as me. and That's all you get. Those are the spots. Uh-huh. Then if you laugh, so now we can extrapolate from that. If you complete the game and you only laughed one time, then your sense of sense of humor is less developed than Dave's.
00:31:39
Speaker
Yeah. if You like weren't able to appreciate that second joke. Exactly. If you laughed three times, then your sense of humor is too sensitive and you actually need to dial it down just a little bit to get back to medium.
00:31:52
Speaker
um Have some goddamn standards. Quit laughing at everything. Exactly. um but Yes, this is a it's it's an excellent game. I definitely recommend it, especially for the purchase price and the the play time.
00:32:08
Speaker
um And it's exactly as long as Dave can make me play a game for us to cover on the podcast. An hour. One hour know Jake was really spitting some random ass shit for that Baldur's Gate 3 episode. I'm like, where are you even coming up with these? And he was right about so many of the terms. I guess just you know the D&D background.
00:32:37
Speaker
yeah helps out it Helps out. I just know a lot about clowns. that's That was my reference point for this game. um Metro Gravity.
00:32:49
Speaker
This was also contributed by Dave. um I also have the stream description for this one if you want to read it. Impressions. Wait, no, it's a different one. So it says explore, fight, solve puzzles, and bend gravity to escape the dreamlike world of the Hales.
00:33:09
Speaker
Metro Gravity is a mind-boggling musical adventure with rhythmic combat rhythmic combats and compelling lore. yeah So there is a demo out for this. I played a little bit of it. um But yeah, the the combat, at least for parrying, I did. They actually showed a metronome at the bottom right. They're like, here's the timing, dumb fuck. yeah um But I'm sure they're doing it as a tutorial thing to get used to the combat.
00:33:37
Speaker
But I thought that was cool. Yeah. And... the gravity thing kind of works where whatever my feet are touching that is ground yeah um so let's say i'm standing sideways on a pillar i can continue to walk all the way around the pillar because the gravity is to the pillar nothing else yeah um and then if i were to walk down onto a different surface i could be on that um And you also do have the option to lock your gravity.
00:34:09
Speaker
So let's say you're in a big room and you're like, i just want to stand on the ground, not walk up the walls each time. You can just lock that in. And then when you want to switch, trigger back and you can walk up the next wall.
00:34:21
Speaker
Yeah, like looking at the the the trailer now and I had watched it before um it the gravity mechanic kind of reminds me of the um like magnetic boots in a lot of games like, you know, Dead Space or Zelda or Mega Man, probably. I don't know. Metroid. I mean, technically, yeah. Maybe. I don't know.
00:34:48
Speaker
But it's a cool mechanic, and it's it's also neat to see the game kind of like go all in on this because some of the terrain that the protagonist is walking on, um it's not just like a strict square or rectangle or something. Like there's a path that curves.
00:35:06
Speaker
And as she's walking along it, because her gravity is always like down relative to her character model, you know, while this is active, she's just like, it's just fault. The screen's following her around as she walks in this corkscrew type pattern, which is really cool.
00:35:22
Speaker
It also has like a decent amount of boss fights in the the trailer that seem pretty action oriented. um And yeah, it's got a rhythm tag.
00:35:35
Speaker
I'm not sure how that plays into the combat. It is the combat. So like when you're going to block enemy attacks, granted I only encountered one turret, but it was like a one, two, three, four. Mm-hmm.
00:35:50
Speaker
Gotcha, gotcha. had to stay on rhythm. Mm-hmm. Interesting. Yeah. um Yeah. Cool looking game. Definitely tech check out the trailer. It is most certainly an indie game, you know, pretty retro looking graphics. 13 bucks right now on Steam, not on sale. So um I will say I do plan to pick this up along with pseudo regalia and maybe one other indie title at some point.
00:36:20
Speaker
you got You got to patronize the indies or be a patron for the indies. i feel like patronize means both things, but usually it also has like a negative context. So um don't give me money. Stop. Get some help.
00:36:36
Speaker
um Yeah, that looks really neat. And, ah you know, leave it to the indies to try new things.
00:36:46
Speaker
Cool.
00:36:49
Speaker
We will see what that's like once we pick it up. ah
Alan Wake 2: A Narrative Continuation
00:36:54
Speaker
Another one. We got a combo going for you, Dave. Alan Wake 2. This game is not available everywhere yet, which I guess makes it exclusive or something. Somehow Dave got in that club and has been putting some time into it.
00:37:09
Speaker
what do you What do you think about the Alan that's not asleep? All right. So we call him. I will say um as a prerequisite, I think it is good to have played Alan Wake 1 because it it kind of continues from there. So it's good to know um what's going on, which, to be fair, in these games is not the easiest. It is very much all over the place with other things going on and not explained until much later or never explained. And you have to kind of infer that.
00:37:46
Speaker
um But I think non-spoilery, if you liked Alan Wake 1, you'll like Alan Wake 2. Right. I think it's a better looking... like I think they improved on all fronts for it.
00:38:04
Speaker
Right. But it does feel very similar. Like when I started... doing stuff with flashlight and a gun again. I'm like, I've been here. It's like riding a bike with a flashlight and a gun.
00:38:23
Speaker
Instead of like the bell, it just shoots.
00:38:28
Speaker
Paper boy's got a tough root.
00:38:34
Speaker
ah um But in this one, you don't start out playing as Alan Wake. You start playing out as a police officer who's going up into the area with her partner to investigate what's going on around...
00:38:50
Speaker
cauldron lake which has historically been problematic yeah um great place to just have a retreat with your wife actually get some inspiration if you're ah an author for a swim see how it is um again it helps to play the first game yeah first um but what i thought is interesting from a game direction choice So early on, you start playing out as Saga Anderson. At a point in the game, you do get to play as Alan Wake, as the game is named.
00:39:24
Speaker
Sure. But at a point, it's not you're playing this character for a chapter, you're playing this character for chapter. It literally goes, hey, which one do you want to play as? OK, interesting. And then in the save room, it will have like a little something you can interact with, which will allow you to switch over to the other character.
00:39:45
Speaker
okay huh that's really interesting i think the last game i played that is like that was indigo prophecy of all things the fahrenheit game in the cold where you could play as the detective and the person trying to escape uh detection at the same time um or quickly toggle between them that is interesting yeah it's not as quick toggle as that um it's like who do you want to play as for ah section though I guess you technically don't have to complete it you could just go back to that save area right um but interesting thing that I'll just lay out here for mechanics Alan Wake's um writer's room or like when he goes into the head is essentially like your menu um but as you're going to different areas ah you can choose different settings or
00:40:41
Speaker
ah themes for that area oh okay so you're like creatively making some choices yeah so you might need to make some changes to help progress parts of where you're at or it might change the area around so this is now an open hallway ah type of stuff that's really interesting that almost kind of seems like it could be its own game and I'm sure I'm sure something is played with those concepts as well where it's like you know you're almost the level designer and the person running through the level.
00:41:16
Speaker
Interesting. I'm curious about it. I was excited for that. I mean, I still am excited for this game. I do like the story of Alan Wake. It was really enthralling. So I'm glad that they're continuing. They don't just abandon it for the second one because this isn't really a spoiler. But like the first game, if it doesn't end on a cliffhanger, it does end on cliffhanger.
00:41:40
Speaker
moment a very dramatic reveal and there's a specific line that is at the very end of the game i'm not going to say it here because it's like a spoiler can you dm that to me because i forget it yeah i'll i'll oh wait wait wait nope i actually remember what it is uh-huh okay um but yeah decision made at the very end of the game and i'm like what and if they didn't touch on that um for the second game i'd be like what So, i mean, they they continue on from the last story beats. Okay. It's not immediately after. There is a time skip, but it makes sense.
00:42:22
Speaker
um But yeah. and i will so I want to interrupt again just to explain the the cops mechanics. She plays exactly the same. What's different for her, though, is in her mind place, as she calls it, ah you can lay out clues. and like You're basically making a case board.
00:42:43
Speaker
You're like, hey, here's next topic. Oh, I talked to these people, or I found this. I have these clues. Now I can put up on the case board to figure stuff out, um which I think is cool. But as far as I know, it's not required at all.
00:42:58
Speaker
Okay for progression there might be a point where it's required at the very end of the game, but I think it's typically optional. So is it more to kind of keep the information ah like gathered and associated for the player then it's like giving you an opportunity to review it and make the connections.
00:43:17
Speaker
I think so because you do have different case files. So it's not like this is the Island R2 case file. It goes into like different aspects of parts of the town or the area or certain people or other events.
00:43:35
Speaker
um So I do like it thematically. And there's also like um something for.
00:43:45
Speaker
Investigating people. OK. That one's a little more confusing. I'm not sure how to explain that. Yeah. But.
00:43:55
Speaker
No, it sounds sounds compelling. it sounds like they tried some new ideas. Also, I will say the edition I got was the complete one. So there's like three DLC technically. Night Spring levels in the game as well.
00:44:12
Speaker
Gotcha. So the original locale for... um Night Springs was the city or not the city the town you arrive in at the beginning of Elan Wake one was a bright Falls bright Falls okay what was nice spring sounds familiar is like their Twilight Zone show oh you're right you're right they had it on the TVs although you see there okay you can actually play um three different levels like within show. i think in Alan Wake 1, you could just watch it on the TV.
00:44:49
Speaker
Yes, you could. it was just It was literally people, myself included, sometimes criticize ah the whole Batman walk slowly when you get a communication in-ear thing. But like things where you're just supposed to stop in a video game or almost stop in a video game are oftentimes...
00:45:09
Speaker
uh inconvenient or annoying because what what if the player wanted to keep playing instead of just sitting here the night spring videos were technically that and that you were literally stopping looking at your screen looking at your character looking at a screen oh like they were also kind of fun and so i didn't hate them as much because they were interesting Yeah, I will say throughout the game, I'm never somebody to read text logs unless I'm really invested. By a word like as a secondary playthrough.
00:45:46
Speaker
I care more so about like the cut scenes and voiced pieces. Yeah. um And sometimes they have voice pieces just in notes that you pick up so you can go back for a Kind of a story overview. Yeah.
00:46:03
Speaker
Kind of for how the game works in general. Like you will find an Alan Wake manuscript page. Right. And he's he's narrating it. Right.
00:46:13
Speaker
Yeah. Really good voice. Really good. I like that. Did you know the person who's the voice actor for Alan Wake is ah the doctor in control?
00:46:26
Speaker
I think, unless i'm unless I'm wrong, and I probably am, i think it's the Remedy guy. i think he's like been with the company for like forever, and was also Max Payne. and the Not Sam Lake. Oh, it's not Sam Lake. Okay, it's somebody else.
00:46:45
Speaker
for Sam Blake is in a lot of stuff. He is in this game. um And I don't hate that. I like that he does self inserts.
00:46:56
Speaker
And that's kind of fun. horretta Yeah, Matthew Perretta. OK, was Dr. Something Darling in control. Gotcha. Dr. Casper Darling. Yeah, I don't know this off the top of my head. To be fair, I was looking this up all your while we were talking.
00:47:12
Speaker
um That's very funny. And I am glad that I wanted to mention, since you like touched on the DLC, that the DLC for Alan Wake 2 is not control themes. Because the DLC for control was Alan Wake themed. I was like, come on, guys. I already am fully invested in control. You don't need to like do cross-promotional stuff. Can I poke one hole in your umbrella?
00:47:38
Speaker
Yes. um I suspect I know what it might be. One of them you do play as Jesse Faden. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Of course. I mean, technically, they happen in the same universe is what I was yeah i was thinking you were going to say. it But like...
00:47:56
Speaker
I accept that. I don't need everything to be in the same universe is has been my impression. um And both the Alan Wake story and the control story are and. um Oh, so yeah. ah both Both of those stories are strong enough to stand alone, in my opinion.
00:48:20
Speaker
Yes. Comma.
00:48:27
Speaker
This game gets into a lot of stuff that was kama ellipsis yeah it was definitely comma
00:48:36
Speaker
there's a lot of plot and other things in aloe wake to it is very dense in that regard. Sure. um I'll be very curious to hear ah your thoughts or anybody in the audience your thoughts on it because I think I like it, but also some parts I, I'm not sure if I do.
00:48:59
Speaker
I felt like I called a lot of things. I'm not sure if I feel good about that or I wanted to be super surprised and supported throughout. I see. Yeah. Um, But i had some theories, some of which were right, some which were wrong.
00:49:13
Speaker
um Also, the game, gorgeous. yeah My favorite design is probably the enemies that you'll face as Alan Wake, which like those shadow creatures that you can shine a light at them and they will eventually fade away.
00:49:30
Speaker
Or maybe they'll get pissed and come and attack you. But their animations and features are really cool. And lot of times you'll be walking around to be like, Alan Wake. That's me. I'm Alan. It's a me, Alan Wake.
00:49:46
Speaker
Yeah, yeah I am. I am excited to play it. Like I said, it's been on my list. The thing that's been holding me back is just I can't play it anywhere that I want to. It's on yeah ah Epic as a limited time exclusive. I believe it's on PlayStation um of the latest variety.
00:50:07
Speaker
So I do not have the means outside of Epic where I could just literally buy it. But I'm probably just going to wait for Steam. Like you said, get the complete edition or something when it comes out. Because I do want to see Remedy succeed. Like, I'm sure they need a little bit a little bit of dosh after FBC Firebreak.
00:50:29
Speaker
um And nobody playing that. They have Control 2 lined up. They have Control. They're going to be fine. um Control was honestly, I was really into like Alan Wake and then Control was like, dang though, like Control. Control's really good. Yeah.
00:50:47
Speaker
Again, shout out to Demuch, friend of the show, special guest. Play Control. Do I play Control first or Alan Wake first? don't remember. That's a good question. I don't know, because I feel like I probably pushed you into Alan Wake eventually.
00:51:02
Speaker
But Demuch was the the guiding force behind Control. We'll we'll say I played Alan Wake first for the sake of this. The concierge for the first house. um It was... It weirdly...
00:51:15
Speaker
held up for me, kind of not like dead space degree of holding up, but I could definitely tell that it was dated, but enough good about the game as far as it was interesting. I enjoyed the moment to moment gameplay um where it kept me engaged throughout. Yeah, that it didn't need to be absolutely perfect with no clunk.
00:51:37
Speaker
Mm hmm. But yeah, then I went to control and everything just felt better you have so much more in the way of options for mobility combat it's such interesting stuff going on yeah i feel like the so service weapon is going to be my trigger term for jake where he can just go for 20 minutes it's so good It had a lot more cool stuff. So yeah, I ah would like to see Remedy do more cool things, and I'm hoping some of that will come with Control 2. Yeah.
00:52:11
Speaker
For sure. Because Alan Wake 2 came out at least two years ago. Yeah. it's It's been exactly one hot minute. um I think that for me, Alan Wake was interesting because...
00:52:27
Speaker
It was showing that they could like really deliver narrative beats and like it's it's stupid. It's stupid to say like the game about being a writer has good writing. But like that was kind of it. Like it could have just been an action game and I would have been like, hey, I'm not going to recommend this anyone.
00:52:45
Speaker
But yeah, because driving it was what was actually happening in the plot for me.
00:52:52
Speaker
And Control accomplishes that with blank space, with questions. They make an intrinsically interesting world where they don't tell you what everything means. And then as you start to figure it out, it's like, ooh, ooh, that's nice. Oh, that's cool. I i want to know.
00:53:07
Speaker
I want to say if you are are in either of these camps, stepping the other camp as well. Yeah. But if you played Control, I honestly think, and you'd like the theming of it, not just the gameplay. I think you would like Abiotic Factor a lot. That is true, And vice versa. Yes. Because there's a good degree of unexplained SCP-type stuff in the universe.
00:53:32
Speaker
And some of it is just very day-to-day mundane. Other things are kind of... world destroying powers but like it's always interesting i want to know what this cryptids powers are um what sightings have seen is that going to be is this foreshadowing for something that i will encounter yeah control is very much like i don't know exactly what its hybrid dna is It says SCP plus something, but abiotic factor is SCP plus a Half-Life. Yes. But
00:54:10
Speaker
yeah, good stuff across the board. um And yeah, I look forward to eventually having like a full episode on Alan Wake 2 once I can play through it. Unfortunately, i would need to borrow not only the game, but also the PlayStation from Dave in order to actually play this game. I mean, outside of wanting to play or have my friend play Astro Bot when they visit next, I really mean I've played through Alan Wake 2.
00:54:47
Speaker
Um, I don't need it for anything else at the moment. So yeah, next time you're by. there you go. Yeah, we'll we we will see we will see it depends on the timeline because I also eventually want to own the game for myself um as the Alan Wake connoisseur, although I don't know if I have American Nightmare. I can't speak to that.
00:55:07
Speaker
um I always forget that exists. I think most people do I don't think it's super relevant and canonical Yeah, it might actually not be canon.
00:55:18
Speaker
I'm not I'm not sure ah Moving forward from that, though, so we can see save something something for the dedicated Alan Wake universe episode. We do finally have an authoritative source from the heavens themselves.
Steam's 'Bullet Heaven' Category
00:55:35
Speaker
Steam has decreed that there is a tag for the survivor-like, ah vampire-like, bullet-esque thing genre that we've all been playing for years at this point.
00:55:52
Speaker
Uh, what, what should this be in your opinion, Dave? What should the, I'll, I'll let you decide what this should have been and then we can reveal what, uh, what it actually is.
00:56:04
Speaker
I mean, honestly, would I would have a good answer if I had not already seen this one. ha Do you agree? This is good because it's called a bullet heaven.
00:56:15
Speaker
So conversely, a bullet hell. You are like one little dude trying to dodge all of these different weapons and projectiles from different enemies. And usually so much that it covers the screen. yeah And it's hell.
00:56:30
Speaker
Shout out Toho. um Yes. Yeah. I think it is Toho. Whereas a Bullet Heaven, you are the one generating all of the bullets, trying to kill a myriad of enemies who are all trying to swarm on you.
00:56:45
Speaker
Which is kind of like, it's a witticism, sort of. It's not necessarily descriptive, right? If you see... if you see the title, if you see bullet heaven as a tag, that in and of itself doesn't tell you anything, right? Like one of the other tags that they changed was they had to disambiguate pool because it was both you used for the like cue ball and all this other stuff, like the billiards game from games that had a pool or like a pool cleaner 2000 or whatever. Right.
00:57:19
Speaker
Um, So they actually just split it out into like billiards. And if you see billiards, you know exactly what that is. Bullet heaven. I'm like, this is just this is like a pseudo 51 exclusive tag or something, probably. Right.
00:57:33
Speaker
But ah I'm not sure exactly exactly where they landed on it, but I understand it. I understand it. Once you have it explained to you once, the inverse of bullet hell, like Dave was saying, makes a lot of sense.
00:57:48
Speaker
um So... I don't know if I 100% agree. I think survivor like I think survivor like could have been fine. um it might pay a little bit more homage to the progenitor of the genre um being vampire survivors.
00:58:06
Speaker
But bullet heaven's fine. I accept it I just feel like we have survival as its own kind of genre. Yeah. So to be like, well, it's a survivor. Like you're like, oh, you're surviving. It's like, it's like the CBS show from early 2000. Yeah. Yeah. They're there. Each of these terms has its own issues. Bullet heaven. I think ultimately might prove over the longterm to be the best.
00:58:34
Speaker
So. that's fine i accept it i accept it what would guitar hero then be note heaven right yeah uh other tags that they added um two of them are chinese i'm going to mispronounce the terms uh wuxia which is the historical fantasy adventure featuring martial arts competing sex and inner key and jen sia Fantasy adventure. or Can you link or just I'll just yeah yeah, I'll just put them in chat so you can see the words.
00:59:07
Speaker
um ah is fantasy adventure focusing on cultivating supernatural powers and strength? um I mispronounced both of them just to engagement bait the listeners. That's that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
00:59:22
Speaker
um But these are both genres like there are enough games for these that like I understand them, you know, being added as tags. Maybe some people would be upset about them, but like cultivation games where you're just kind of doing the Dragon Ball thing and powering up over time.
00:59:40
Speaker
There's actually a lot of them now. um martial arts fantasy games there's a lot of them now like they're they're they are earned i will say though i always think it's funny in media video games or tv more so like different anime when it's like hey here's chinese philosophy and it just gives you the chunk yeah yeah And there is there is a lot of that. There is a lot of that in these types of games as well. Sometimes um I think it was the amazing cultivation simulator. Seth made a video on it. That's where my brain always goes when I think about cultivation games now.
01:00:24
Speaker
um We also had a lot of tags removed, so these ah won't exist anymore. And if they were used for games, well, they're gone. 3D Vision, Ambient, America, Blood, Crowdfunded, Cult Classic, Documentary, Drama, Dungeons & Dragons, Electronic, which is interesting. Like, what does that mean? um Experience, Feature Film, Foreign, which is also weird when Steam is in a bunch of different income food countries. What does a foreign tag mean? um Game Maker Games Workshop, which is also hilarious. That is a publisher.
01:01:04
Speaker
ah Illuminati, which I was surprised was ever a tag. Kickstarter Lego, again, proper brand. ah Masterpiece Mature Movie Marathon ah mar ah movie na marathon is the word. naathon I've never heard that.
01:01:20
Speaker
I think with the Lego thing, it's like Obviously the Lego games are Lego base and other games are not Lego. Yeah, if they had a Lego tag, they're probably i think there's some infringement to use the brand name. It is definitely infringing.
01:01:37
Speaker
I wonder if it's like and you can also just like click the Lego publisher. Yeah, and see all the Lego games. They could just call it like toys or bricks or something like else. I'm sure something like that exists.
01:01:50
Speaker
ah The word I couldn't read was Mega blocks Batman. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. want to play Playmobil. Apparently, like Lego is actually coming out with a Star Wars game and they have like Darth Jar Jar and stuff like that. I don't know if you've seen this, but it looks absolutely hilarious and like way more interesting than the movies.
01:02:10
Speaker
ah The word I couldn't read and I was getting stuck on was narration. They're removing that one as a tag. NSFW, no longer a tag. Everything is safe for work, apparently, now.
01:02:21
Speaker
Steam has declared it, so... How am I going to find the inappropriate games on Steam now? You could probably rely on all of the other tags that are used for those types of games.
01:02:34
Speaker
um That depends. Do you consider Hensai Netsu for work? Sorry, I had to throw in one joke. That's the first one I could think of. There you go. Roguevania, which is not...
01:02:45
Speaker
a good tag in general because I think Metroidvania still exists here. um so yeah, I didn't really see that that much RPG maker Warhammer 40k, which again is funny, but there are hundreds of them. So I understand it's true web publishing and well written.
01:03:05
Speaker
And then they changed some other ones, but I'm not too interested though. I was already mentioned the pool. They merged unforgiving ah into difficult. Apparently, unforgiving was its own tag, which that doesn't really.
01:03:21
Speaker
Whatever. Sorry, can you hear the wind pick up or no? No, no, don't get good. opened the door to let the dog out and it's just super loud. Yeah. ah Condenser mics doing its work. Technically, I would mention a little bit. They're losing some intricacy here because we've talked on the podcast before about how difficulty and punishment are not the same thing.
01:03:46
Speaker
But there's only so many tags, you know, it's a tough economy. They have to be different things because if you're being difficult, I'm going to to punish you. There you go. I mean, they can't be the same thing. Yeah, yeah exactly.
01:04:00
Speaker
um But not anymore. According to Steam, if someone's being difficult, you need to difficult them.
01:04:08
Speaker
ah We had other things to talk about, but I think we're've we've used so much time. Honestly, we're just so so good at time. Um, we could follow up more topics. You know what? It's not a bad thing.
01:04:22
Speaker
We might just have another episode some other day Maybe. All right. Yeah, sure. We can see how we're feeling for it. um But thank you guys for listening.
01:04:33
Speaker
If you have any feedback, feel free to check down in the show notes. I'm going to include links to the games that we talked about today, especially the ones that are more of the indie variety.
01:04:44
Speaker
um So people have the opportunity to check them out. um And yeah, if you have any other ideas for episodes, reach out to us, let us know. Always happy to hear from our listeners.
01:04:54
Speaker
And as always... We'll see you in the next one. Have a good one.