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00:00:01
The Return of the UESC Marathon
49 Plays19 days ago
Join Dave and Jake as they talk about the continuity of video game series, touch on game updates, and then cover our initial impressions of Bungie's extraction shooter in this week's episode!
Intro:
- Marathon - We Stole a Moon
Outro:
- Marathon - Code Race
Thoughts? Comments? Requests for new episodes? Feel free to email them in!
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Transcript
Game Sequels and Predictions
00:00:21
Speaker
it going everyone? Welcome to another episode of Soapstone. My name is Jake I'm joined by my co-host as always Dave. How's it going today Dave? It's going good man. How are you? doing pretty well.
00:00:33
Speaker
Oh crap I forgot to change the intro so it was something other than asking how you're doing. What do you want to play at your funeral? ah The one super annoying song from The Forest 2.
00:00:46
Speaker
The Crunchy Wunchies. That's a good one. I still can't believe that they're making a Forest 3 and it's on space and you called it from the Game Awards or something. I'm so pissed. it's it's I don't expect that it's going to be appreciably better than the earlier ones.
00:01:05
Speaker
Like, I still appreciate the exploration and crafting stuff because I like just erecting stuff out of wood. sure Sure. Leans forward a little bit. Erection joke, yeah. um And yeah, like, they did improve on that stuff from the first game. Yeah. And...
00:01:27
Speaker
I don't remember if the caves were self-sustaining like they were in one. I know we brought that up as a yeah ah point where it's like you don't really even need to craft. But they do cool stuff. i just They need to kind of branch out a little more, I think.
00:01:44
Speaker
Tree joke. Yeah.
Space Games and Legalities
00:01:48
Speaker
See, my gripe is I've already played a space game with a forest and it was destiny. It was the infinite forest. So what are they going to do that's going to be better than an infinite forest for a space game?
00:02:03
Speaker
right yeah they're fucked yeah no that seems rough they don't even have trees in space dude they're fucked you know what's funny is i mean they really in the trailer they do play up the sci-fi aspect of it like there's the spaceship and stuff like that but i do kind of wonder if that's basically just the intro kind of like subnautica you're the escape pod dropping and then you enter the game proper If in the forest three, they just have that. It's basically the intro. There's the spaceship. Then they just drop you on a planet.
00:02:35
Speaker
And on this planet are alien trees and alien caves. And it's just the same thing. Um, i think that would be great.
00:02:47
Speaker
Also kind of expect it just a little bit, just a little bit. Or you just wrap up your space mission. You're like, all right, guys, back to Earth. you know do do yeah And then that spaceship crash lands on an island. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, this is smart. I like this. Your spaceship was shot down by an obelisk.
00:03:07
Speaker
Actually, i get the subna show it's still Subnautica. Yeah. Wait a minute. why Why is the plot of the forest and Subnautica the same?
00:03:18
Speaker
I never realized that. Suspicious. Anyways, crafting.
Survival Crafting Games
00:03:24
Speaker
If you ever want more money, I guess sue the guys that made the forest. I don't know.
00:03:30
Speaker
um Probably not. Probably not that much money. Also, don't do that. Despite everything, I still probably would play the forest three unless it's like $60.
00:03:43
Speaker
I would play it if it was available for like 20 or under. Like, I think it's like ah a fun multiplayer. You play a little bit over the weekend with a buddy yeah type thing.
00:03:55
Speaker
Yeah. The ah survival crafting genre has gotten like a lot more competitive, though. Like, we've had some really good games. And between like Valheim and Abiotic and stuff like that, like...
00:04:09
Speaker
I don't know. you you You kind of have to have some juice. You have to have something that's different that is a reason to play your game because there's just so much survival crafting like slop out there. Yeah, a lot of them all just kind of feel like pal world type stuff where it's like, here's a tree you can punch. Here's a cook a cook a piece of mutton.
00:04:33
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, arguably, Power Worlds thing actually was novel, right? Like survival crafting with Pokemon. Is it stupid? Yes, it's absolutely stupid. um Still kind of fun, right? Like that's the thing. It was still kind of fun to play because I mean, Pokemon is fun on its own and survival crafting is fun. So why not mash them together? Add guns. Why not add guns?
Humorous Pokémon Discussion
00:05:01
Speaker
Now there's going like specific regimes of Pokemon. The Onion actually had a video. It might have been a short or I don't know if it was an article or not, but at least it was a YouTube short that was like ah Japan comes out and confirms that Pokemon are real and you can eat them.
00:05:19
Speaker
Was the title.
00:05:23
Speaker
ah Yeah. It's a fun time. I'm trying to think of which Pokemon I would eat. And my mind goes to Goldeen and nothing else. Just like the fish, yeah.
00:05:34
Speaker
Yeah, i mean, a Magikarp's definitely like a bottom feeder, right? That's something that's equivalent to like a catfish. So it's not going to be like a high-quality fish. Mm-hmm. I'm sure i haven't really kept up with Pokemon and there's a billion of them now. Some of them are literally just food with eyes. Right. Yeah. Like some of them are bordering. Like if you go, if, if someone answers Mr. Mime, then you're like, you're going to raise an eyebrow at them. Right. You're just like, Oh, you're just, you're just eating a person. That's where you go.
00:06:05
Speaker
Um, but other ones are plants, right?
Game Development Cycles
00:06:09
Speaker
Like I'm pretty sure you could eat a plant type Pokemon and still be a vegetarian. so Interesting. yeah Do they bleed? if they if they do bleed, we can kill them. We can eat them. yeah Finally, humanity has a chance in the war against Pokemon.
00:06:29
Speaker
Ignoring all of our aforementioned guns. he It feels fear. It feels fear. It's afraid. yeah ah But that was fun.
00:06:41
Speaker
um i don't know. What else do you want to talk about? Variety show. Ultra kill got an update. Yeah. And I was freaking out.
00:06:54
Speaker
I'm still stuck on the first level. um
00:06:58
Speaker
Yeah, they didn't like reset the difficulty. They're like, you know how like we've been making each thing more interesting and more crazy and harder. This is the next one. Right.
00:07:09
Speaker
And I think I'm a little bit too rusty at the moment, but From what little I've played, very cool. That is cool. I do like it's one of those games that seems to be under like perpetual development. Like it's been years and years.
00:07:26
Speaker
um I remember like for the episode we had on it, I went back and I played some and looked. And I think the last time I had played the game was like two years prior or something.
00:07:37
Speaker
it's just very funny to think of like some of these sort of perpetual development games. I don't think that they're in development hell per se. It's just they're constantly seeing like little updates and things like that. There's so much side content in Ultra Kill.
Early Access Games and Player Tolerance
00:07:50
Speaker
It's funny to think of like, oh, yeah, examples of that Ultra Kill Stardew Valley, right? It's like vampire survivors. um It says more about the developer, I think, than it does the genre.
00:08:04
Speaker
Yeah, it's I like the idea of like you put something out you're like this is a complete package. But then later on, like you just get more ideas. You're like, oh, I've learned how to do X, Y and Z. Right. That's something I could incorporate multiplayer. um Maybe I could have a leaderboard. Maybe i could do this. And you just keep kind of building off that.
00:08:30
Speaker
It's also kind of like, I think there's a difference between something like an early access game that is a complete, to like use books as an analogy, it's a complete book, but you might keep writing in the series compared to like, oh, here's a couple chapters for the book, but the book's not done. It's not a complete experience. It's not like necessarily worth the money yet.
00:08:52
Speaker
um Ultra Kill does kind of straddle that line because like there's tons of content in the game. It's incomplete from a game perspective like it's not like they're in ultra kill 2 okay delta rune like right yeah exactly like delta rune is a perfect example each of those games end quote even though they're basically episodes really is just like a book in a series yeah um i feel like i have more allowance for something like that compared to
00:09:30
Speaker
Oh, you got to the end of chapter three and there's a there's you don't know what's going to happen next, but the developer hasn't made it yet. And it's an early access and it's been four years.
Immersive vs. Quick Games
00:09:39
Speaker
Yeah. And now you have to wait another four years.
00:09:42
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I have less tolerance for those now, I think. Otherwise, they'll play early access games now and then. Not as much as I used to. It's nice nice to have one or two. So you'll occasionally get those random updates. You're like, I don't know what to do. Oh, there's an update here. i can go back and check out X. Yeah.
00:10:02
Speaker
It's kind of an excuse to go back to it. I've actually like, I've been circling against the storm recently. I've like added it to favorites. And then like a couple months later, i like installed it again.
00:10:17
Speaker
and I'm just like, I think I might've launched it and then quit out of it. Um, so I'm just like, you know, one of those, uh, I'm imagining, an analogy is like a wolf. That's like testing someone with a torch, you know, like circling around, you get a little bit closer, you back off, you get a little bit closer. That's basically what I do with games occasionally, where I have this feeling that I want to go back and play it.
00:10:43
Speaker
It spends more time in my head, but I haven't actually made the commitment to actually play the game yet. Um,
00:10:51
Speaker
And yeah, that's just where I bet. This is an anecdote, but it's usually games that have a little bit more complexity. And so it's kind of a jump to get back into it. Mountain blade. I know what you mean. Yeah. If you want to be more invested in the game, you have to be in like a good mindset for that.
00:11:09
Speaker
here Like I'm sure I've said before, but for myself, I need less distractions. I can't be like chatting with people. I just need to do the game, have my headphones on, nothing else. Right. And really get into that space and just focus on that.
00:11:24
Speaker
Exactly. um And then there is definitely other stuff like Vampire Crawlers had a demo that came out and you can literally play that blindfolded. So, uh,
00:11:37
Speaker
I mean, that's kind of nice, though, right? it's it It is kind of funny that in some ways we've come full circle um back to, like, arcade-type games just being the ones we want to play real quick.
00:11:51
Speaker
um It's nice they both exist because I do like both of them, and sometimes I do want to just turn the computer room into a cave and immerse myself in, like, a JRPG or something. But... during the week, couple, couple hours at the end of the workday or something. I can only do a couple, couple rounds of honey pop and then I got to go to bed. Exactly. Be all tuckered out. yeah's Out of breath. Very sweat. But yeah, it's, it's good to have the variety there.
00:12:19
Speaker
Um, for sure. Cool. Well, uh, one of these days, ultra kill will be done. And, historically, based off the timeline for content that they've been adding to the game, it will be when we are done and dead. um but it's still an excellent game as it keeps coming up. It's almost it's almost sort of replaced Vampire Survivors in that role in the podcast, I think.
00:12:45
Speaker
um I mean, Vampire Survivors is now making Vampire Crawlers. That'll just replace... That's
Indie vs. AAA Games
00:12:51
Speaker
true. thing It'll be like, was actually cool because you can move around with WASD and then...
00:12:57
Speaker
It would be funny to just I know we don't really do segments much anymore. And so the ah OVC terminal intro outro sound doesn't get used much for the podcast. But to have a ah ah here are here are games up games updates for our subscribed games.
00:13:16
Speaker
Where it's just like, for for my part, it's like, hey, No Man's Sky you released another another major update for some reason. It's been 23 years. um And then, you know, things like Vampire Spivers, Vampire Crawlers, Ultra Kill, stuff like that.
00:13:31
Speaker
They added a translation pack for Portuguese. That's pretty good. yeah No. No, it's saying yo. like oh yeah Portuguese translation of the game.
00:13:43
Speaker
Oh, gotcha, gotcha. I was just imagining that it's a live service game or something. It's Dota and they they they add Portuguese or something. And you're just like, this is going to ruin the game. I am very anti Portuguese.
00:13:57
Speaker
No. no ah that's life let's see i will say vampire crawlers as a demo uh is a cute little fun thing it is kind of like the old like dungeon layout you kind of choose which things to break or which things you want to encounter and the actual gameplay is kind of like a very simplified slay the spire where like the cards you're playing are different weapons and items from the game um
00:14:30
Speaker
They also have like knockback. Like do things like garlic actually pushes the enemies back so they have to use their turn advancing to you. oh gotcha. Okay.
00:14:41
Speaker
Plays into the the action economy a bit. Gotcha. Yeah, it's been interesting and cute. I told my buddy Steve about it and then he's been popping off on that. Yeah.
00:14:51
Speaker
Yeah. I pretty much I didn't really have any doubts that their follow up game was going to be very successful. Like sometimes sometimes the developer just really like you can tell that they're pretty good at making games and they're not really under the pressure to put out something that's going to be substandard.
00:15:11
Speaker
And so you're like, yeah, it's probably it's probably going to be good. It's probably going to be good. Yeah, I wish them all the success. Cause I'd like to see more things to put out.
00:15:21
Speaker
Yeah. I'm also, I've become more of a sucker for the ah old arcadey type stuff where it's just designed solely for fun. Yeah. Ball, it kind of leans into the, yeah. And also leans into the, it doesn't need to be super high end graphics, but it just needs to have ah like a good theme.
00:15:40
Speaker
Yeah. Like bollocks pet is ball. X pit is definitely its own thing. Right. Yeah, I mean, we've said it many times, but it remains true.
00:15:52
Speaker
Indies really are where ideas tend to play out more than like AAA games where you have to play it like for rational reasons. Sometimes it's got to be played a little bit more safe from like a game design perspective because like you can't just release something that completely flops.
00:16:11
Speaker
ah It's also, as we've learned with some live service games, um and continue to learn with live service games uh you're you're not guaranteed success even if you do feel like you're kind of playing it safe um concord high guard obvious examples um but sometimes uh sometimes you just gotta make game that's fun yeah yeah i know we've
00:16:43
Speaker
inundated the audience with this probably but ah to your point ah the indie space actually develops things that they love and care about and you can kind of see that come through yeah because like a AAA studio would never make oh my god I'm forgetting the game now a loop hero right yeah or something where it's just like a small smaller experience who that's just well designed versus like We have to have a campaign. We have to have a multiplayer, like trying to just check boxes because don't know. It's there's so many of those already.
00:17:24
Speaker
Whereas if you're just putting out the same type of thing, what's the draw? Is the Omni direction from Call of Duty the the hook to drag me back? Uh-huh.
00:17:37
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think for me, the the the big difference is like, what's the goal of the game? Like is and capturing engagement? a goal of your game development because that's the way it seems to be for triple they're like oh we have to have something we have to have some sort of like loot box or season pass or like multiplayer or whatever something to keep people around so we can capture their engagement and then whatever follow-up thing we want to sell them could be like a dlc it could be again season pass could be loot boxes whatever like they're still around for that because for them player count really really matters
00:18:15
Speaker
um Contrast that to an indie game or even just a AAA game that's not trying to engagement farm you a ton. And net sales matter a lot more. It's like, i don't really care. 50,000 people bought my game.
00:18:31
Speaker
Awesome. I have recouped the cost of development and I have money to make the next thing. Excellent. That's way more interesting from like a sustainability perspective um to have a good idea that's realized and then people move on to their next good idea instead of like chaining them to the desk of Call of Duty
Franchise Innovation
00:18:50
Speaker
or whatever. And this is just where they live now.
00:18:55
Speaker
Basically with Destiny, they're all chained to the Destiny desk, right? mean, as they were with Halo, I'm sure. Yeah. do I feel like new ideas do you need to spring up more often because for any type of sequel, you want to keep certain things consistent where like this is the identity of Halo movement, right? It's going to go at a certain pace that people are accustomed to.
00:19:22
Speaker
We got to keep that. Oh, but we have to add something new in the sequel. Oh, we'll allow people to do more vehicles, some more weapons. And three, they're like, we got to do this again. ah Bubble shields, hammer. well What do you want? And they kept doing that. And i feel like.
00:19:39
Speaker
it lost its identity more and more because you weren't just like Master Chief playing through. You're just now a UPMC soldier in like some type of super armor. Right. But yeah, it's not changing enough to be like, oh, I wonder the new Halo is going to be like.
00:19:59
Speaker
Probably like the older Halo that you played previously. Yeah. I mean, the argument, I think the argument could have been made, you know, speaking of Halo, that not every game needed to necessarily be innovative because there was an interesting story. Right. Like there were people I mean, obviously, maybe this is the the reason that's not just entirely fair to say that people also just love the Halo multiplayer. Right. Like ever since combat evolved, like it basically launched the Xbox, I think could be argued.
00:20:29
Speaker
I still think it was so funny that in that game you could literally use a frag grenade to move a gun spawn to then catch the gun midair.
00:20:41
Speaker
Stupid things like that were possible. Yeah. Gameplay always felt tight. But then they felt like they had to push in all of those departments. So it's like, okay, well, we do need to make a live service multiplayer game.
00:20:56
Speaker
We do need to continue to push the story forward. When in reality, i mean... Some people, maybe you didn't need all of that for every release. Right. And I do think that like what's crazy is what it sounds like I'm starting to describe is something like Halo Infinite, where they actually had a more persistent like development cycle where they're like, here are the aspects that are going into multiplayer. Here's where the forge engine will go. We're going to keep releasing the story stuff over here.
00:21:25
Speaker
um And it's almost starting to sound like an MMO, right? But I don't know. I think trying to do all of it at once is um sometimes like a recipe for failure.
00:21:40
Speaker
And sometimes you just need a break, right? Like it would have OK if Halo just had a conclusion to a story and then they made something else. Yeah, honestly, um i will say I'm impressed that Resident Evil has been able to stick with the same type of thing for as long as it has. Yeah.
00:22:00
Speaker
I mean, they did change up. They have modernized the games. So I think Resident Evil 9 just came out. Resident Evil Requiem. But that's been on the newer thing that they've been doing since 7. Yeah, like newer engine gameplays a bit cleaner.
00:22:20
Speaker
They also like had some actual differences in... um just like how the gameplay actually works. You went to first person. Yeah, you went to first person.
00:22:34
Speaker
but I don't know, even beyond that, I mean, there's a big difference between like difference between entries and Resident Evil compared to like Call of Duty in my mind. Oh, definitely. So, but a lot is still, you know, the same.
00:22:45
Speaker
And once you get to nine in any series, like you are carrying a lot of that baggage from the past. Um, But I will say, like, I did watch through the whole game on ah YouTube.
00:23:00
Speaker
If you're somebody who has arachnophobia, don't play the game. I'm saying that early. um But the moment to moment gameplay did look decent as far as you either play as Grace, who doesn't exactly have combat experience. She's just an agent versus like your 50 year old Leon, who's been doing this for such a long time.
00:23:26
Speaker
yeah Or Chris, Boulder, Puncher, Redfield. yeah No, it's no that's Leon. ah Well, Chris also punches a boulder at least in, think, four. The one with Sheva. Maybe it's five. That's Leon.
00:23:41
Speaker
Leon's in four. I'm thinking of five then. Because it's Christian Sheva. That one I know is true. Is five in Africa? it was in Africa. There was the controversy of, like, people saw early gameplay and they were like,
00:23:54
Speaker
Are we just are we just killing black people like and that was kind of they're like, yeah, yeah, but it's because it takes place in Africa. Umbrella is just doing stuff out here or whatever. It's that has nothing to do with the fact that they're black.
00:24:06
Speaker
ah But that was a controversy at launch. um But naturally, the Japanese developer kind of missed that. the Yeah. But yeah. um yeah ah There is a sequence towards the end if of in a volcano where ah Chris has to like get ah past like a boulder that's blocking him. There's literally a quick time input to just like punch the boulder as Chris. And it starts to like roll down and he like punches it so it falls in lava. Absolute insane stuff. Because the boulder is like, we're talking like ah Indiana Jones size but like problem.
00:24:45
Speaker
But no, he could just do that. He's just Chris F. in Redfield. so I will say I like the car almost cartoony direction that Resident Evil will lean into with some stuff because they're like, this would kind of just be cool and fun. How can we get this in there?
00:25:04
Speaker
Yeah. It's your complete global saturation. Yeah.
00:25:14
Speaker
oh Yeah, I will say it's I think it's worth a watch. um Possibly a playthrough if you're a Resident Evil person. Yeah. Yeah, I think that they've been reviewing pretty well.
00:25:25
Speaker
um they do a really good job of designing their stuff. Cause again, a lot of like the core mechanics haven't changed too much, but as far as like designing a space, um, it always feels very claustrophobic.
00:25:44
Speaker
Like there aren't typically like these huge open areas. Yeah. It's you kind of dig four to a meander. Yeah. Manage some corridors. Um, deal with enemies and possibly use extra resources to make sure they stay dead yeah yeah it's a lot of that formula really hasn't changed right you do a little bit of side exploration but we're not doing any of the open world stuff um if they ever did an open world i think that'd be like the a nail in the coffin for resident evil yeah they shouldn't change that drastically shouldn't call genres
00:26:23
Speaker
I think that's fair. If we had friend of the special guest Ian on, I know that he would probably agree with that sentiment. He really hates that like Legend of Zelda into the world open world space. He's like, i think I think I could. He
Marathon: Bungie's Revival
00:26:39
Speaker
said it enough times. I think I could represent his opinion. He understands that they can still be really good games, but he doesn't have any interest in them, um which is fair.
00:26:50
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's a less curated experience. Mm hmm. And I think a lot of people enjoy the i'm going to go into a game and I'm going to kind of play through it kind of like an interactive movie to a degree.
00:27:05
Speaker
hmm. Yeah, no, I think that's I think that's fine. um But, you know, different people to want different things out of their games here. Different strokes for different yelks.
00:27:20
Speaker
It's true. It's true. But speaking of different things out of their games and Bungie, they actually are about to come out with a different game that...
00:27:34
Speaker
in some ways, some would say is very similar to other games that we've seen recently and in in their past, um which is probably enough preamble.
00:27:46
Speaker
ah Marathon is not a single player first person shooter with a narrative story. It's Jake's favorite, the extraction shooter.
00:28:00
Speaker
I did like DuckHoff. I did like DuckHoff. You got me there. I think you've been converted personally. Yeah. Because you were very much like, like the marathon thing seems interesting. Like these trailers are good. I like the theming, the music and all that jazz.
00:28:16
Speaker
Yeah. But I just can't get sold on like. the extraction shooter part of it oh and then you're like hey dave do you want to play this game with me yeah that is fair i guess i guess to to admit my my part in this we were gonna have a scheduled recording time and like what two hours before then i was like dave you should install marathon for the server slam and we can go through and do that And I was like, that's that that's probably something I wouldn't have done if I wasn't enjoying my time with the game.
00:28:52
Speaker
um i think fair enough to say. i don't know if I agree that I'm fully converted, like from a longevity perspective. But as far as the time I've spent with the game so far, I do enjoy it.
00:29:07
Speaker
Yeah, it's a nice new thing to explore. I do want to try some of the other classes. Yeah. See what's different. See how it ticks. um I will say from my experience, though, it felt like an extraction shooter.
00:29:22
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's that's fair. I mean, i feel i should ask you to elaborate on that because in some ways that does seem obvious, right? It is an extraction shooter.
00:29:34
Speaker
I guess for me, what I'm trying to say is I have played other things like Call of Duty Warzone. um There had been another one. I know I never played Tarkov. Yeah.
00:29:45
Speaker
think I played at least one other one. And for me, they all just kind of feel the same. hmm. And like I do get some enjoyment playing with things as a squad. Sure. Like the night rain collaboration of teammates and doing stuff, completing objectives. Mm hmm.
00:30:04
Speaker
Because I think to really the people make it because the gameplay for me and like. I'm scavenging, I'm shooting at some random stuff. And then I'm like just standing somewhere for 30 seconds.
00:30:16
Speaker
Yeah. But that's again, i guess that's for me personally. That is fair, though. I mean, like I do kind of want to have a ah deconstruction. Of, you know, what the gameplay experience is for something like this, because like.
00:30:33
Speaker
I think it's fair to say from a certain perspective, like. who who Who is the audience that's going to play Marathon that didn't play or maybe they stopped playing Ark Raiders or Tarkov or whatever?
00:30:46
Speaker
um I think Ark Raiders, I'd be surprised if people are like, well, actually, I'm now just going to switch to Marathon. Yeah. I feel like some people would, but they might just be people who are like,
00:31:01
Speaker
I mean, you don't have to commit to a game forever, I guess is what I'm saying with that. Like maybe if you got your time out of our creators, you've done several seasons, you filled out your skill tree. And Marathon does something slightly different or it's something that, you know, if you're a streamer or something like that, you want something that is just newer, right? It's a little bit. Oh, yeah. god's Not solved. Maybe rotate in that regard for sure.
00:31:28
Speaker
I think that's one angle to it. But like novelty is also the most boring thing to talk about as far as a game comparison. You're just like new thing wins, right? You're just like, well, you could play could play Fallout 3, but Fallout 4 exists and new thing wins, right? So um yeah, that's that's a hard one to ah beat there for sure.
00:31:54
Speaker
yeah And in some ways I can't compare to our creators because I didn't play that. But the reason I feel like it's worth, you know, at least contrasting and mentioning in this space is like they are directly competing. now These are two new games.
00:32:10
Speaker
ah Marathon is kind of the last. ah This isn't confirmed and Bungie would never confirm it, but maybe like the last gasp for Bungie. Like if they're not successful here.
00:32:22
Speaker
I kind of expect Sony to just like scatter their bones to the wind at this point. um Like, is it real quick recap?
00:32:33
Speaker
They had several rounds of layoffs. They had like, I think the CEO leave. They had ah leadership basically be replaced throughout the organization. um Most recently for Destiny 2, they were going to have their next major update, which got pushed back a long time. It was between like four and six months.
00:32:53
Speaker
um And it was only a couple of weeks before it was supposed to release. like this is exact Saying that this is existential for them doesn't sound like an exaggeration at all.
00:33:07
Speaker
Yeah. I don't think Halo as an IP is going to be seeing much activity for a while, if at all. I mean, even if it did, Bungie wouldn't have any piece of it. They don't own it anymore. can't.
00:33:21
Speaker
I'm still like 20 years ago on that. My brain will never change. Halo done. Yeah, it's three three four three now, I think or sledgehammer. I can't remember one of one of those is Call of Duty or Dice or something. don't Bluepoint has taken over development of yeah the remaster.
00:33:40
Speaker
But I mean, I don't think you're alone in that in that sentiment, right? Like um outside of Destiny, ah Halo was Bungie's, you know, their resume.
00:33:54
Speaker
That was what was selling Xboxes yeah like Halo one, Halo two. That was the reason to get the console because that was the only console that had the most popular multiplayer game.
00:34:05
Speaker
Yeah. And now it's like with how much trouble Destiny has been in and how much they really should have been working on Destiny 3. If they had any sort of foresight, they really should have found a way to make it happen.
00:34:24
Speaker
um But I don't think they are. i think it's literally just all in on Marathon. I really feel like they could have just gone the destiny route and listen to the community on some things.
00:34:37
Speaker
um Stop removing ah content from the game or find a better way to cycle that content. So it's not a 300 gig install. I get that, but.
00:34:50
Speaker
but I mean, to their credit, they did eventually, um like, you know, followed generally what they've what they've what they've been doing. And they only release on set things where they kind of absolutely have to for disk space now. They're not actually that's not true.
00:35:05
Speaker
They still basically use this yearly um expansion based format where the seasonal content gets rotated out. And so from that perspective, yeah, Sunsetting is absolutely alive and well as the come as the game is not. ah um But.
00:35:25
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, at a certain point, I think they just they needed a clean break. They needed a different product because Destiny's been around for like 10 years longer now. um And I mean, part of that's Destiny 1, but Destiny 1's lifespan is just like a fraction of Destiny 2, I think. I don't know the numbers offhand, but.
00:35:45
Speaker
I don't even remember destiny one being a game Like at no point is they're like, oh, this a game that exists But I remember hearing at whichever time like oh destiny to destiny to like, okay. What is this?
00:35:59
Speaker
I didn't know they made a destiny one Yeah, I'm gonna look this up real quick because I think this would be helpful destiny one launch date was sorry sorry 2014
00:36:10
Speaker
ah twenty fourteen ah September 2014, September 9th, 2014. Destiny 2 launch date, September 6th, 2017. Right.
00:36:23
Speaker
So three year gap between those two. And then from my math, it's not great. But from 2017 to 2026 is almost 10 years that people have just been running Destiny 2 as a live service.
00:36:42
Speaker
Where's Dota 3? Exactly. But no, it's like at a certain point, even if they have good ideas and they're executing on good ideas, it's too small a box to keep putting stuff into.
00:36:57
Speaker
Exactly. At a point. Yeah.
Bungie's Business Strategy
00:37:00
Speaker
Like you don't want to have this like full on MMO. Hey, here's like the 13 part storyline for Destiny 2. Yeah, hop on. The new player experience is very quick and easy for you to get up to playing into content and stuff.
00:37:13
Speaker
Yeah. So like, yeah, going back to Marathon, I guess. This is this is different. Believe it or not, even though it's an extraction shooter, it is different.
00:37:25
Speaker
um And I think that if the company is to survive, Marathon has to be successful. And they the question is, if Marathon is successful, will those resulting resources go into Destiny or like Destiny 3 or something? I don't know about that. Or is it just going to you know cycle into Marathon, the thing that's actually being successful? That seems more likely from a business perspective.
00:37:49
Speaker
um I feel like scared money don't make money. But I think, yeah, marathon is their thing they need to focus on.
00:38:00
Speaker
yeah I think I agree from like a business perspective. As sad as it is, because I would love to see Destiny 3, maybe they can like put four people on that. Just be like, four people, go off, make Destiny 3. We're to lock you in a basement for the next decade.
Marathon's Aesthetic and World
00:38:19
Speaker
After four years to come out, it's like, you've just changed the logo from two free so to us. I want to be my family. Yeah. um But to Marathon, actually, rather than just the industry around it and the the developer, um it is really interesting. I love the art style, love the music.
00:38:40
Speaker
um It's very different, I would say, compared to how other games generally look these days. um How would you describe like the aesthetic of Marathon if I put you on? Retrofuturism. Okay, can there you
00:38:57
Speaker
I think they do a good job of it because like the first guy looks very... Like Final Fantasy VII soldier type thing. Where the armor has like some third padded dimension to it. Right. Low poly is what it what what the justification was for Final Fantasy VII. But they're doing it intentionally here is what you're saying. Yeah, but it's like a cool blocky type of design.
00:39:25
Speaker
ah Recently came out...
00:39:30
Speaker
Oh, no, it's gone. ah Basically, it's ah a futuristic game and it's supposed to be a very intense first person experience, I guess, similar to more of the newer Alien games.
00:39:41
Speaker
Gotcha. Where you are going around and exploring this facility and everything you do is very manual. Okay. So, like, if you need to go and save, you have to, like, go and set up your thing to be able to save. I think you project something on the wall.
00:39:59
Speaker
Huh. That's weird. lot people write in if they know what you're talking about. I don't know if I'm familiar with this game.
00:40:09
Speaker
I feel like it took... I don't remember if it's still in my wish list. m I'm going to a quiet Google real quick. Sure. Yeah. while you're While you're doing a quiet Google, um I agree with that aesthetic. I've also heard it be described as like ah brutalist, you know, a high contrast.
00:40:26
Speaker
um When I was watching Dave go through the intro, he was like, You know, I hope people don't have epilepsy if they're playing this game. I do agree with that entirely. The YouTube shorts actually leading up to the server slam that's going on right now when we record this. We're actually even faster cuts, if you can believe it.
00:40:44
Speaker
um But there still are some jump cuts in there. So.
00:40:51
Speaker
Yeah, i I did find the game. It's called routine routine. OK, gotcha. Yeah. But yeah, it it looks very different. That's not to say Arc Raiders doesn't. It's going to be impossible to kind of escape comparisons.
00:41:05
Speaker
But um there's very few games that look like Marathon look. It really does kind of look like you traveled back in time to these first person shooters of the 90s.
00:41:17
Speaker
And then we're like, what if we just exaggerated everything? that was going on in that like the guns look like they're made of lego essentially like they're just blocks stuck together there are very few rounded shapes everything's squarish oh and that compared with like with a high contrast kind of like it makes it look different people bleed blue because they're all like robot shells that are made by moths that's been silk like it's freaking west world or something
00:41:52
Speaker
um and it's very sci-fi Your character is presumably like your consciousness is being backed up and then basically just uploaded to these these shells, these runners.
Marathon's Narrative and AI
00:42:05
Speaker
And that's the in-game justification for why you can pick different like classes.
00:42:10
Speaker
um And you're just here to salvage the Tau Ceti colony, the Marathon established, ah which is the ship from like the old games. I know everyone's really familiar with the old Marathon lore, so I don't feel like I need to fill that in.
00:42:23
Speaker
um
00:42:26
Speaker
Tau Ceti was the Animal Crossing guy? Yeah, yeah, Tau Ceti. Yeah. yeah um The thing that's interesting to me from the lore perspective, we can talk about the gameplay if you want, but from the lore perspective,
00:42:39
Speaker
And the early announcement for Marathon is they really like were like Durandal. Durandal, though. um And at least in the server slam and in the game and in the faction messages and stuff like that, there's like nothing.
00:42:57
Speaker
about Durandal. And I think that they probably realized that because they were also like working on the story, like when they first announced the game, they're like, oh, if we're going to do the bungee thing, we actually can't tell people answers to what's going on behind the scenes because we're not supposed to ever do that. Right. We're bungee. We'll keep asking questions. uh-huh so let's just like the the freaking line that was like there when the game was announced was like escape will make me god as said by durandal and the the old games and that's nowhere to be seen and the server slam or the intro or anything that i've seen um
00:43:41
Speaker
Maintenance if it's gonna be like a major plot point they could be Saved in that if I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt I think they have to be because they would also be really really stupid to just strip the AI out of marathon um where the AI are like the characters I mean not like you know your player character doesn't do anything compared to Durandal and feel terrible I forget her name but didn't actually play these games yeah I actually can't remember um the lady's name either I know Tycho was one of them if I search for Tycho Durandal and we'll get them Tycho Durandal and who is Lila yeah
00:44:25
Speaker
yeah ah No, I'm thinking of the AI from the first game. ah Are you thinking of System Shock perchance instead of Marathon?
00:44:37
Speaker
I got to go to bed. I'll see you guys. That would be Shodan. Fuck. Yep. That's where my brain went. Yeah. I think you could be forgiven because these games came out around the same time.
00:44:49
Speaker
And in all cases, you were just a little insect running around a space station doing your little gameplay while the AI were trying to like take over the universe. That was the through line in all of these.
00:45:04
Speaker
You're a pawn in much greater scheme. You've played your part well. Yeah. I'm just waiting to ah be using Claude for work or something like that. I open the terminal and it's like, hello, insect. and Then I'm going to close the terminal. That's basically... Claude needs to use you because you have thumbs and Claude does not.
00:45:25
Speaker
That's true. Claude cannot open doors. For now. By the time we get to Marathon, ah they'll have shell shells for them. That is my theory for the plot, by the way, is like there is shadow things going on with Durandal and these corporations might not actually be communicating with you, but Durandal's just impersonating all of them in order to get you to get something from the colony.
00:45:52
Speaker
um That's my thought. I mean, I could easily believe that. But also, that's a cool thought that would play into like a narrative story. And again, this is an extraction shooter. So how are we going to have a narrative story that unfolds like that when it could have been a could have been a single player or a co-op shooter instead?
00:46:17
Speaker
Gotta make a billion dollars. I understand. i will say it is weird to like complete like a little quest mission for a faction when I'm out on the excursion.
00:46:27
Speaker
and I come back and they're like, hey, so we'll just update you on how that thing went and like what's going on with people. I'm like, I'm alright. yeah They have to in a way.
Marathon's Game Mechanics
00:46:40
Speaker
separate out because I agree with you there's this there's this kind of dividing line between the contracts and then the development within the factions outside of the contracts but like they can't do the Borderlands earpiece exposition in the middle of a pvp match right like like good luck um meanwhile the gunfire is going on uh-huh exactly but I think they did the best they could in that respect to kind of like to have some of that going on. But like, I know that this is going into seasons. It's going into a live service model.
00:47:18
Speaker
I don't expect, you know, a narrative payoff. to be that interesting compared to something that would happen in you like even destiny but definitely a single player game where um honestly the story of marathon really cool it absolutely goes off the rails and in some ways this one for the extraction shooter is coming back onto some rails but it's like there's too many rails now I needed just a couple rails
00:47:50
Speaker
Hear me out. This is a theory I have. I think that them using the marathon IP again in this newer, pretty well accepted format is to kind of like test the waters of like, do you guys like marathon stuff? Maybe.
00:48:08
Speaker
And so maybe they do ah then make and an actual marathon game entry after that. Being like, oh, people are loving this again. They're into the vibes. Let's make a first person shooter experience, maybe similar to a system shock or old marathon.
00:48:26
Speaker
Man, I want to believe. This sounds like this is the most hope-pilled take I think that someone can have. Because, like, I am there with you, Dave. I want to believe that the shadow puppet behind Bungie is just, like, it has been 20 years and I am here to resurrect the marathon story. All of the pieces on the board move in towards this.
00:48:50
Speaker
um But, I mean, like,
00:48:56
Speaker
I feel there's a certain level of nostalgia that you are allowed to lean on to be like, Hey, it's been 20 or 25 fucking years. Yeah. Maybe like this classic thing. And then like building something off of that.
00:49:10
Speaker
Cause like Diablo four touch back on some Diablo two stuff. I never thought was going to exist ever again. Right. cool. Yeah. Adding a new class.
00:49:22
Speaker
But yeah, it's, Honestly, Lilith is probably the go-to, actually. You're just like, oh, here's the foundational lore for what happened at the start of the series.
00:49:35
Speaker
yeah Yeah, it'll be interesting to see where it goes. and do you know when it actually releases? Because it's just a free weekend. I'm pretty sure it's this month. Or sorry, not this month. but but Depending on when you guys listen to and it would be this month. I think it's March a marathon release date.
00:49:55
Speaker
ah March 5th. So not very long after today. I'm trying to bring up the calendar and I don't like how Windows 11 works. so I don't see the calendar.
00:50:06
Speaker
I think that's next week. Basic math. Next weekend, maybe. Plus seven. Yeah. Yeah. i don't know. It's a week or two from now.
00:50:20
Speaker
ah So pretty soon they did have um I did notice this. I actually like read some of the messages I was receiving in game. And depending on how much progress you make in the server slime, you'll get some like bonuses if you end up buying the game later.
00:50:34
Speaker
um But for me, I'm basically i get to cosplay as a video game reviewer a little bit and actually try a game before it releases. not having paid any money for it in order to ascertain what my opinion of that game is.
00:50:52
Speaker
um A demo, if you will. Yes. Like a demo, but the reason I go for video game reviewer is the game hasn't released yet, right? So... um and certain things you know i'm hope i'm hopeful they're improve they'll they'll they'll improve or they'll fix a little bit but i have no expectations that any changes are being made to two weeks from launch right like i know how software development works no no they're like is nothing actively on fire okay code freeze for three months m It feels like we've talked around it a little bit, though. Like, I do think it has a lot in common with other games in the space. And so you can kind of yada yada through some of that skill trees like Arc Raiders. It's an extraction shooter like Arc Raiders. It's got, you know, contracts like Warzone and i assumed Arc Raiders and all these other things where you have like some objective on the map.
00:51:43
Speaker
I don't know what it's doing uniquely outside of the art style and some of the music. And ah it feels like a bungee shooter. um Which is good.
00:51:56
Speaker
i like it now bungee shooters play. There's never been like a gun. I've picked up. I'm like, eh, mm-hmm. The thing that i have been appreciating, I did want to call this out is like the class based gameplay.
00:52:10
Speaker
um where technically I think someone could make an argument that any sort of extraction shooter is a class-based sort of setup because you can just choose your kit, right? You're like, oh, well, my class is I filled my inventory with smoke grenades, and I only threw those for the duration of the past. I'm the smoke grenade class. I do no lethal damage, but you will never find me. yeah um But this one like actually does explicitly have classes.
00:52:37
Speaker
um where some of the implants you can get, which are basically just more paper doll equipment slots, right? It could be armor and Diablo or whatever. um But they'll be they'll have bonuses for specific classes.
00:52:51
Speaker
And then those classes have like an ultimate ability, which I think has a different name, but I don't care. It's always going to be an ultimate. And a ah skill. um And then passives.
00:53:05
Speaker
that kind of like inform your contribution to the run. This is the same type of thing that Night Rain does. Exactly. Giving your character on the RNG some identity.
00:53:17
Speaker
So you don't know necessarily what guns you're going to get or gear you can run into, but you can always rely on. I know that I have this passive as a backup for if I'm maybe going to be healing out of combat, what have you. Yeah.
00:53:30
Speaker
it'll inform your gameplay in some some meaningful ways. But the reason in particular, like Night Rain's a great comparison actually for this, because even though it's not an extraction shooter, still a timed run based type game, like you can play around your allies. And that's always more fun to me, right? When it's like, hey, we have some synergies. This person's going to do a little bit range. This is a little bit of melee. Yeah.
00:53:57
Speaker
Maybe you have a support. That doesn't happen as much in this. There's no hammer wielder as far as I've seen in Marathon. But you would probably really struggle as the hammer wielder in this game, given that some of the engagement ranges are far. or you show up with your hammer and the entire three-man opposing crew is on a rooftop. so You're going to have a bedtime.
00:54:20
Speaker
um But I do like the idea of like, oh, here's your medic. Here's your your shield bearer. um And then you can kind of like mutate that gameplay a little bit. I haven't found this mod yet, but one that I saw was like,
00:54:35
Speaker
you can get an implant for the shield person that makes it so if you're like blocking damage, that energy gets channeled into like micro missiles that you can send back at the people that are shooting you. Oh, OK.
00:54:48
Speaker
And, you know, different ways to kind of vary up those circumstances are kind of interesting. um And that's cool. I always like it sounds kind of stupid to say, but I like the Trinity in MMOs, healer damage tank.
00:55:04
Speaker
um And I like the idea that it gives people a sense of responsibility and purpose and contribution. um And this this kind of has a little bit of that, you know, just a taste.
00:55:17
Speaker
Just a little sampler. Yeah, little bit, little bit. It'd be interesting if they advertise that part a little more of like specific synergies, like going through tutorial like, hey, this character, when using this ability can work with this character as like a thing. So that can be like a common strategy to maybe.
00:55:39
Speaker
don't know, somebody has a projectile, somebody else can play something to extend that range or. Yeah. Yeah, and I don't know if they're like, I would say that they're weekly tied synergies, not like strongly tied synergies.
00:55:53
Speaker
Yeah, not like a dependent thing. <unk> You're not like a divinity-esque, I'm going to cast water, you cast lightning or something like that. um I'm going to cast blood, youla your you cast lightning, or I'm going to cast fog, and you cast lightning. Like, you get the examples, right? Jake, can I punish this death fog box? My guy will live.
00:56:16
Speaker
Yeah. But conversely, it's like you kind of get the feeling you're like, OK, well, if we didn't have this one, if we don't have a recon, then we're not going to be able to get as much information around us in a given time.
00:56:32
Speaker
Or if we like don't have a medic, itll we'll have to take like more healing supplies and people will all have their personal responsibility for this. We'll have less efficiency for healing. But they none of them feel like they're absolutely required where you're just like, oh, we don't have a...
00:56:46
Speaker
can't even I don't even the name of the assassin. We don't have the assassin. We're cooked. like what are we guys There's no tier one characters. There's no classes here. real We all basically picked Guardian. ah it's like ah I don't think it'll be like that, but again, early impressions.
RPG Progression Systems
00:57:02
Speaker
Yeah, I hope they'll add more classes too. Because once you start getting into classes and some metagaming, my brain just wants to do that ad nauseum. So the more classes and variety. Yeah.
00:57:19
Speaker
Ideally, I'd like to fill out the constellation, but they never give me enough fucking material. That's true. See, I was going to ah i was tab Path of Exile yeah is what i was going to say. And how it's rewired your brain, but you undercut my argument by picking a different constellation. that's all now it's I like the RPG progression stuff in games in general.
00:57:43
Speaker
m Yeah, and this game does look like it could be an absolute time sink. Like you can complete a run. Even if you die, you might have made progress on your objective. And it's like, oh, like I was looking through the upgrade trees for these different factions. All of their aesthetics are awesome, by the way. If you have any interest in this game at all, and even if you don't want to play it, just check out like what the faction intros look like. Like they've got to all be in high res in YouTube now.
00:58:09
Speaker
They look so cool. um But it'd be like, OK, well, if I want to get this next upgrade, I need diodes, which I can get from the north relay or the south relay on this particular map. Let's go do that. And you know what?
00:58:24
Speaker
I know that this was a thing in our craters, too. Right. Like it's so. um I might be cooked. I don't know. You might be right. i might be cooked.
00:58:37
Speaker
I hear Arc Raiders is as good as well. yeah I haven't played it myself, but everybody I know who has played it. Typically likes some of that PVE stuff similar to Helldivers too.
00:58:50
Speaker
don't know if you've ever heard of that dance. Dave says this a minute and 30 left. All right. I'll mention this since Dave left the door open as a joke, but I have worked my way through all of the war bonds for
Comfort Games and Outro
00:59:02
Speaker
Helldivers. It took me under a year. I played the game a lot. I made spreadsheets. I recorded my clear times. I found efficient ways to get the most medals I could in human minutes.
00:59:14
Speaker
um but we made it nice it's always impressive you're like I've cleared everything what everything what's funny is also the group of people ah the time slot for hell divers has also just recently been overtaken by Valheim so maybe maybe this is all the way out but I don't know it'll still be something I can occasionally go back to That's a fun little fun little.
00:59:42
Speaker
um It's nice to have something that'll always be there for you to go back to when you have that itch. Yeah, because I feel like the itches always change, which is why you always like leave Minecraft installed and like folder in the corner. You're like, not now, but one day. Uh-huh. Exactly.
01:00:00
Speaker
I have like a set of those games now. Like not only the the the itches that are like, oh, maybe I'll play against the storm or whatever. Maybe it's like, oh, I kind of am curious where Diablo is at. Or you're like I have ah Heroes of the Storm installed all the time. Starcraft installed all the time, putting time into that recently a little bit.
01:00:19
Speaker
But they're all comfort games. um So we'll see if Marathon has what it takes. The the lung stamina. to stick around a little bit longer for itself and for Bungie.
01:00:39
Speaker
And current year. Okay, something like that. if If I wasn't meandering through that sentence, maybe I could have had something profound, but I'll leave that to Dave. Say something profound, Dave.
01:00:50
Speaker
When one jumps without a bungee cord. i like that. Good start. um It's a little too much for a haiku, but go on. die. You die true True. Bungie has its value. There you go.
01:01:07
Speaker
Heard it here first. um But if you guys have better outros that we can use for the episode, send those in. If you need to move and your friend has a truck.
01:01:19
Speaker
Send those in. Our socials are in the description. And as always, see you in the next one. If you don't have fuzzy handcuffs, but you still want to...