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Unlocking Football's Managerial Chessboard: Tuchel, Slot, Ragnick, and the Greatest of Them All - Don Carlo!
31 Plays7 months ago
We look to the upcoming managerial roundabout featuring Man United, Bayern Munich and Liverpool. Plus Carlo Ancelotti gets his flowers as one of the 21st century most under-rated managers.
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Transcript
Weekend Football Results Recap
00:00:17
Speaker
Hello, hello, hello, hello, hello. This is the Not Upon The Podcast, but you already know, because that's why you click play. I'm Killian. I'm delighted to be joined as ever by Nate and Connor. Gentlemen, how are we doing?
00:00:30
Speaker
Can't complain, can't complain. Nobody would listen if you did. Good win for the two and over the weekend. So it always sets you up for a good weekend.
Champions League Match Anticipation
00:00:40
Speaker
Two big games or two big days of Champions League football this week, which is also another kind of brilliant bit of the week. What about you, Adrian? Doing well. Busy week. Well, yeah. Joined the football so far last night. It was a good game. Look forward to second leg. But yeah, doing well.
00:01:00
Speaker
Good stuff.
Bayern vs Real Madrid: Key Incidents and Analysis
00:01:01
Speaker
Well, one of the biggest talking points and like just before we came on, it was kind of got us going, shall we say. And the reason why we're going to be kicking it off with it is Byron Munich to Real Madrid too. Did you all like the little dig from Jude Bellingham as Harry Kane was going to take the penalty?
00:01:22
Speaker
love a bit of shit house where you're like that, there's nothing beats a bit of sledge and a harmless band there, you gotta love it. I also loved Roodiger trying to predict the penalty yet again and this time made an absolute arse of it but you win some, you lose some.
00:01:39
Speaker
Yeah, Harmon is banter like Anthony last week, but we won't get into that. Yeah, that was a good game. It was interesting. Well Madrid were a bit passive, I think. They sort of swapped back and let Bayern do what they want to do. And I don't know if that was the counter act too should or whatever, but it was an interesting game. And this is what we sort of want now is like a second leg where it's all on the line.
Jude Bellingham's Impact at Real Madrid
00:02:04
Speaker
You know what I mean? Like it's basically a nil all.
00:02:06
Speaker
I just can't get over Duke Bellingham. I know everyone knows how good he is, but just how young he is and how mature he is is just frightening. Even take out his talent, just to go into a club like Real Madrid, take it by the scruff of the neck and be evidently a major leader in that team at his age is just nothing short of... I mean his first season.
00:02:31
Speaker
People forget he's only there like what, 10 months? Like it is insane. Maybe a little bit hyperbolic but I do genuinely think he is one of the world's best players and I would right now anyway say he's more influential on Real Madrid than Holland is on City.
00:02:50
Speaker
A hundred percent. Look, Halland's been getting fairly reamed in the press. A lot of it isn't exactly fair because he's still banging in goals. But when you look at, Jude Bellingham isn't just scoring goals. He's assisting goals. He's kind of a
00:03:10
Speaker
He's a complete midfield center package. Yeah. He's like a manager on the pitch. He's like, he's, he's captain material, a hundred percent. And like, you'd think he was 29, you know, he has been at Madrid for five years. It's, I bow down. I call the praise that Modric has been getting over the last couple of years, pales in comparison to the effects that Bellingham has had in a very, very short space
Bellingham's Career Path
00:03:35
Speaker
of time. Give him the same length of tenure as Modric. You're talking about a club legend instantly now.
00:03:40
Speaker
Yeah, like I think he is a generational talent. Like I think he's a world-class footballer. Like going back to what Connor said about Holland, Holland's not a world-class footballer in my opinion. He's a world-class striker, not a footballer. Drew Benningham's everything, you know what I mean? The full pack of scores goals can defend
00:04:00
Speaker
great pass and has such a good list of attributes. But I do think the reason he's gone in and done so well is because he was thrown into so many environments so far in his career that sort of out paled his age, if that makes sense. So like, you know, playing in the first team for
00:04:20
Speaker
in the city when, what was he, 16, 17, then moved into the dorm and so young. And I feel like he's a bit more mature than we give him credit for currently. Well, yeah, he's had to bootstrap his way there. And like you said, when you see young players like 15, run off even 15, 16, 17, come in to say the Premier League,
00:04:43
Speaker
You kind of like the talent level there that they wouldn't be in that position if they weren't extraordinary but where I think you benefit from being at somewhere like a Birmingham over being a Premier League team at that point is.
00:04:57
Speaker
you're thrown into environments that are much harsher. You're like you're playing a lot more football because they need you more and you're not the primary players aren't real men, but you know, you know what I'm saying in terms of the, the, the, the kind of caliber of person you're going against is a lot rougher and
Future Prospects for Bellingham
00:05:15
Speaker
it's a little, you know, I think to your point, 90 had to grow up quick.
00:05:19
Speaker
Yeah, I think the exciting thing, just so quickly, is another four or five years, he's been at Real Madrid then six, like about a seventh year, he still has another half a career to go. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's crazy to think about. And I think we need to see him in the Premier League at some point. 100%. There's two things I want to put the world to rights
Retiring Jersey Numbers: A Debate
00:05:43
Speaker
to. I'm going to put them ideas and see if you agree.
00:05:45
Speaker
I think now we have to forgive Birmingham and take back all the laughs for retiring as Jersey. They were just ahead of the game. I think doing it when he's kind of still playing irks me and when they did at the time I was like football's gone, we've lost the game. Laughable at the time but they've been proven correct. But I still wait till
00:06:10
Speaker
wait till at least he's won like a Ballon d'Or or a Champions League or something and then you can go, he's been at Madrid for a couple of years, retires Jersey down, but retiring it straight off the bat when he's gone to Dortmund and like he could have flopped, he could have absolutely flopped and it was a big race. But it's paid off, a proven race. Well yeah, but like we say it's paid off, why is it paid for?
00:06:37
Speaker
Do you know where to give? Yeah. Well, it's the reputational end of it more to the point. Don't forget the reason why they did it was to kind of give YouTube players like an attainable kind of like wow.
00:06:52
Speaker
He did it so I can do it too. And I think for a lot of youth players now, you kind of have to look at it kind of going, hmm. He's a big fan of close retiring numbers. I'm not really. I'm not. I think it, I think it's say for example, if, um, if a player passes on, say either. It was in your man at city that retired his number.
00:07:17
Speaker
Yeah, like that, I think it was a FOWA, Mark Vivian FOWA, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like that I'm down for. Like if someone's been like a long servant of the club and something horrible happens. Yeah. And the only caveat to that is I think if it's in the first 11 numbers, no. Just out of sheer principle of kind of football, purest senses.
00:07:43
Speaker
Yeah, I'd agree. Outside of that, I think in Newcastle, for example, if Alan Shearer wore number 26, retire that. He's top goal scorer, that kind of thing. But outside that, it's not for me. What about you, Nate?
00:07:59
Speaker
See, I know it, you know, it's like, we're very precious with numbers, like very, like a specific number seven. Although, you know, Lexus Sanchez even makes them out. But for a while there, it was very, very, very flippantly. I like to go by the thought that a player borrows a number doesn't own the number, you know what I mean? Like, I like that number can go across multiple generations. So
00:08:26
Speaker
for that, you know what I mean? So I think I'm against with iron numbers. What about you
Iconic Jersey Numbers in Football
00:08:34
Speaker
Kevin? I agree with your point about the 1-11.
00:08:37
Speaker
They're sacred-like. Yeah. But there's plenty of clubs across Europe that have retired number 12 for the fans. Yeah. I think that's not again though. I think you need to be careful when you do that because there's certain fan bases out there that do deserve that. But if you're trying to make your fans feel better about themselves and doing it, I don't like it. I think
00:09:02
Speaker
They're only a short number at the end of the day. Like it's not like you're renaming a stand. And the thing about them is they often happen for a couple of years and then they're gone again.
00:09:13
Speaker
Yeah, but the only thing is when it stretches over like multiple clubs, like so many clubs have been around for hundreds of years, it's like the amount of players that have gone through that word number, it all tells a story, you know what I mean? Well, I just like the number seven. Like, you know, if you're a kid coming up in the academy at United and you're looking at, you know, George Best has worn it, Beckham's worn it, Ronaldo's worn it.
00:09:38
Speaker
You're kind of like, holy shit, this is more than just the jersey, you know? Yeah, they inspired to have that number. Very overrated number, I have to say. Like the fact that you struggled to get the three players for number seven at United, I think it's kind of there's more, there's more legendary status given to it than it's actually earned. I do think with seven though, like United or certain numbers, like say 10 or number nine at Newcastle or whatever, like
00:10:08
Speaker
It's a massive massive pressure to take on and i almost think it says something about a player like when a player comes in goes i want the biggest number at your club you go we got a guy here now he's either a cocky bastard or he's he can walk the walk but we'll find out you know it adds a bit of spice.
00:10:28
Speaker
Killing a few names of War No. 7 on Manchester United, all right? Cristiano Ronaldo, Eric Cantona, George Best, David Beckham, Brian Robson, like, come on. In the words of Eamonn Dunphy, Ronaldo's a card. That's what, five players in 130 odd years.
00:10:48
Speaker
You ain't messing with the number seven. I'm backing Nate in this and I'm not a United boy, but I'll be one for tonight. I'll just Alexei Sanchez and then you had like Yanaziah at 11 after Giggs. Like he's don't, he's don't put a whole lot of credence into them. What was that? He was D3 at seven as well? No comment. I forgot Michael Owen as earlier. Oh, now you're turning me lads. Now the man who's never watched a movie. Memphis the Pie.
00:11:22
Speaker
The other thing I wanted to put the rights as well is not just that Birmingham should be forgiven, but two.
Carlo Ancelotti's Management Style
00:11:33
Speaker
And Shawty has now to be seen to be one of the best managers of the 21st century. Arguably, he's the best. I think we made the joke recently that, you know, he's good when he still has a head of hair like that. He's obviously chilled out enough and comfortable in his position. But like, yeah, look, I mean, you look at Pep and it's hard to look past him in terms of what he's done to the game and where he's moved the game on.
00:12:02
Speaker
you know how he's changed but i think what ancillary he's he's a fine wine that guy like everywhere he's gone
00:12:12
Speaker
he's never dipped, ever. And I think that's one of the big things about, say, I put Pep closer to Bielsa than I would Ancelotti, because I think Pep and Ancelotti were very good at moving football on, particularly at Bielsa, the fact that it was like he changed how people thought. Same with Ranjak, who we'll get onto later again, these guys who were like,
00:12:33
Speaker
thinkers that brought the game on and people copied and emulated. Whereas if you look at Ancelotti, he won his first Champions League as a manager won 2006. He's done it over multiple styles in different decades over different countries.
00:12:51
Speaker
there's no, Pep would be the only one that I think really kind of comes close to the level of success, but also he was doing this with some of the greatest teams, some of the greatest players, some of the greatest financial powers. But if you look at Ancelotti, right, and I think the biggest credit you can give a manager is if someone's, if you sent me a single
00:13:13
Speaker
kind of game of any club that Ancelates watched, like just full 90 minute video on YouTube, I'd happily watch any of them. Even when he was at Everton, they played pretty sexy football at times. A few managers that are so linked with a formation.
00:13:33
Speaker
like he hasn't played a property in about 15 years, but that's four, one, two, one, two, tight diamond. Which was at the time, it was four, four, two, or four. Actually, to be honest, it was just four, four, two. At that point, it really was. It was Mike Bassett's finest, and that Milan team, I know that was like
00:13:56
Speaker
pre-Barcelona, that was arguably the scariest team on earth. That Isimalan team that he had when Chipchenko was at his peak. Not that he doesn't get the credit he deserves, everyone knows he's a good manager, but I think people are very quick to go peps number one, but he's kind of the sleeper behind. He's right there.
00:14:16
Speaker
Yeah, and I think one of the big things that goes on the radar is management as well. Everyone knows what players that have passed through his hands is crazy. I think even more impressive now is that Real Madrid team is so young, he's still able to connect with them. Well, that's a great point, Nate, because how many managers do we talk about are so out of the loop? He's encountering the same problems as any other manager in terms of social media in the game, phones in the game,
00:14:43
Speaker
all the pressures of being a young player and like he's just happily there with his cigar and like obviously he's got incredibly high standards and you know anyone who doesn't meet them is ushered out but what I do like about him as well is
00:14:58
Speaker
Do you ever hear Scandal about him? Do you ever hear him being salty? Do you ever hear him being itchy? I was just trying to think, when's the last time Angela had a player come out and winch about him? I genuinely, unless it's someone who was fringe player, who was just like bitter, I cannot tell you.
00:15:15
Speaker
The only one that came to mind was Hammes Rodriguez. And then I realized, no, that was after Ancelotti left. Yeah. Like that's like, just look at the stats here. He's the only manager to win four Champions League, only manager to win all top five leagues, only manager to win four super cups. And he's also the only manager to win 90 ways for club winning competition. Take it to rage. He's nowhere near 70.
00:15:41
Speaker
He can go for you can kill keep going on man and like he also what i think the reason that he's not top of people's mind is the go-to is he doesn't care if you think he is. He could not give a toss you never hit if he's the type of guy that if you said. Everyone like the every media member in this room thinks you're the greatest coach on earth to be like that's a nice thing to say but that's not for me to decide.
00:16:07
Speaker
You know like he's just a humble dude. I think one of the things that kind of goes against him in that kind of chat in and around where we are is more how short of a spell he had in Chelsea and then at Everton.
00:16:21
Speaker
it's that like Premier League bias that kind of going, well he didn't make it here. Even though did he win a Premier League? I think he did. I don't know. He came down close. Yeah, he won all the top five days. Jesus Christ. The dude is absolutely unbelievable and every time people think he's gonna fizzle out, he just doesn't.
00:16:42
Speaker
Why do you think he doesn't get brought up in these conversations? He obviously gets brought up, but he's never the first name that comes out of people's mouth. Do we think it's because he's moved so many different things? I think it's just because he's... Like I was saying, he's humble. He's not the merino guy and I'm the special one. He's not...
00:17:05
Speaker
outrageous in the media. As much as a top flight manager can be, he's about as under the radar publicly as possible. I think a big thing that goes against him is that his football, the type of football his teams play, isn't standout. It's always good to watch, but it's never something that he'd make you go, oh my god. It's not end to end stuff. It's one of the kind of ones where the tactics he plays enables the good players to be amazing, like Zamelik.
00:17:34
Speaker
Whereas if you look at, say, a pep, when the team does well, well, pep gets the credit for the formation. So I think it's one of these kind of ones where he allows great, good, great players to be amazing and good players to be great. Whereas pep gets great players to play great. So it's kind of, oh, well, the formation has enabled that because we know how good De Bruyne is. Whereas if you know what I mean, like, I think I think I think Ancelotti's football isn't sexy, but it just elevates.
00:18:04
Speaker
But I think what's also underappreciated from an Ancelotti, I didn't realise this was going to be an Ancelotti loving, but I'm loving it. But like, when you look at the clubs he's been at, there's some of the most...
00:18:17
Speaker
politically charged clubs around. Like being the manager at Real Madrid's like being a prime minister. AC Milan when Berlusconi was knocking around, same thing. Chelsea with Abramovich, same thing. Everton, different beast, but really tough situation. PSG. Now only. Can we do clubs that we forget he was at? The man, you'd love to just pick his brain.
00:18:44
Speaker
Dream, that's I think Don Carlo can be our number one dream pick. If we ever win the lottery, we're trying to get him on the pod, whatever we have to pay. I forgot he was a buyer. Oh my God. Yeah. Oh my God. He was at Madrid before. When you think of a top flight club, he's literally paying at them. You know, you went to Milan, Chelsea, PSG, Madrid, Bayern, Napoli, Everton, Madrid. Lots of that is.
Thomas Tuchel Under Pressure at Bayern
00:19:19
Speaker
But somebody that isn't quite as well regarded as a manager right now, it was Don Carlo's opponent over in Byron, Thomas Tuchel, who is under serious pressure and is a dead man walking it seems.
00:19:36
Speaker
I don't I don't get the douche or hate like I really don't. I understand. I'll start with this. I understand people's preservation with them. I understand why people might not like them.
00:19:49
Speaker
But I feel like everyone has to come to common ground that he's a top manager, like he's just a top top manager. And yeah, I just don't know why he's so hated. Maybe a personality thing. I think it's just that, man. I think you swap his personality and less
00:20:07
Speaker
not even abrasive's probably the wrong word, but he's not tremendously likeable, but if you take, like, you don't have to like a manager for them to be good, you know what I mean? And in terms of his output speak for themselves, I think, like, yeah, he's had a couple of dips over time and that's where he might differ to someone like Don Carlo, but, you know, when you look at all of it, he's a pretty stellar character.
00:20:37
Speaker
But he's also so young still. What are you choosing? Is he mid-40s? Yeah, mid-40s. Do you know what I mean? He's been around a while. He's 50. Is he 50? He's been around a while, but he's still young in the manager game. He's got a good 20 years of management left in him, easy if not more. He's nearly 20 years of management behind him.
00:21:04
Speaker
I'll be nothing if not consistent here. I get, as Nate said, I get some of the reservations that people have against him. He's not a manager you're going to hire for the long term. But neither is Mourinho. That's what I was going to say. It's becoming more common now that it's rare that you do that to him for the long haul. But one thing I think has to be taken from this whole scenario is
00:21:28
Speaker
Byron are so toxic.
00:21:40
Speaker
I don't know, decade in general, but especially the last say five years that that's papered over cracks in that club in terms of the culture there, the leadership there, the style of player they were buying even for a while and the characters within that dressing room. And like, I'm not, like, I'm not trying to call it a farmer's league. Like the German league is, I really do enjoy it, but like they've, they've run riot in that league for a long time, but they just seem like a rudder, like shit.
00:22:10
Speaker
The one thing I'll say is I don't know why they're panicking so much. There might not be a very well-run club, people-wise, but they're very well financially backed. That's public. A lot of big German companies behind them. They have ran right with that league for 10 years.
00:22:32
Speaker
Why after one year where it goes a bit rocky is everyone trying their toys out of the prime? I think it kind of lends itself and not to make this into a Formula One podcast because we also have one of those but
00:22:47
Speaker
I think Bayern in Germany is akin to Ferrari in Italy. It's it's a national team, you know, and I think it's expectations. Yeah, because there's so many other clubs in like, like every club in Germany is half fan out.
00:23:05
Speaker
So, and I think that's going to give like every other club, the fans to go, I don't care about Byron. They just pay for everything. We're revealed here. Like I think Byron is, uh, Jeremy's equivalent to PSG as far as German fans are concerned. Yeah. They're the ones, the money we're going to do things the right way.
00:23:22
Speaker
And Leverkusen has the same thing lobbied at them because Bauer Leverkusen, like they're also part, like they have a real, I think Germans have a real kind of
00:23:38
Speaker
a distrust of any big company coming into football. And that is burn. That is literally have like six big companies behind the wall. But like if you're an adidas or mass adidas like team over like, like they're literally backed by six huge companies to the point where finances aren't an issue. It's like, let's take a breather, clear house, get a new manager and use their grant.
00:24:04
Speaker
But even how they treated Naiveldman last year, it was just a complete overreaction for nobody in the end. The same thing's happened in the two show now. It's just an overreaction. He's been blamed for stuff, in my opinion, that he got brought in and just thrown onto him. He's been given literally zero time. It's like, just take a breather and just like... They're also in the semi-finals of the Champions League, like, yes, sorry, lads, you didn't win the league and you didn't win the
00:24:38
Speaker
And then you have the president, Honez, coming out and making comments that he can't get the best out of players and that all he wants to do is just spend money and sign new ones. What are you trying to achieve by that? Genuinely. But did he not let you just win the Champions League, win a Chelsea team that was 40 youngsters? You know what I mean? I don't understand what his point is.
00:24:58
Speaker
the the copo godlike
00:25:07
Speaker
I think it's a case of real sour grape stuff. They're like, look, we want you gone. It's a smear campaign. It's an unnecessary thing. And, you know, his position, I suppose, is what was it, honorary chairman or did we say or something? Lifetime president or something like that. It's a wishy washy job. So like of all the people come out and say it, it's not good optics for anyone to say it, but I mean,
00:25:36
Speaker
him, he's probably like, yeah, I bought her by it, but like, you know, whatever. But I just, a club like Bayern Munich, having this goes back to what we were saying, the type of people who are leading that club, if they're coming out with statements like that, Jesus, lads, you know, like, it's so petty and lower class.
00:25:59
Speaker
like Yaman who said it, Honas, so he was aspiring for pretty much his whole career, apart from alone at the very, very end. And from then, so he retired in 1979 after nine years as a player. And from then was commercial and general manager of Byron Munich.
00:26:15
Speaker
Until 2009 then he was elected president since the late 70s. Yeah. So like this man is the club. So he's the one that helped like the Allianz Arena is credited to him. Like the finances that Byron now have that we now kind of like bemoan. Yeah.
00:26:37
Speaker
are from this guy. So we can't just say it's a wishy washy job. This man is, as far as Bayern Munich fans are concerned, Bayern. Well, he's an institution. This is like Beckenbauer criticising something. Yeah, he's an institution in the fact that when I say wishy washy job, I more mean his title, his current title. It's the title you give him to keep him around and keep him on the payroll and keep him involved in the club. But yeah, when you put it like that, especially when you say Beckenbauer,
00:27:06
Speaker
That's got a sting for Twojal and he doesn't deserve it. Well, he's dead if he's saying that, you know what I mean? It's like it's game over. Yeah. Although, like... Which is what? For me? Nathan, what is the latest? Could Man United be benefiting from this?
Tuchel as a Potential Manchester United Manager
00:27:21
Speaker
Yeah. Well, they're sniffing around Twojal and early signs that discussions have taken place, which is good. Listen, lads, we could get a...
00:27:32
Speaker
a semi-final of the Champions League at the very least, manager in for free. I think anyone will bite their hands off for that. I really like to. I've always liked to. You've been a long time stan of him.
00:27:47
Speaker
So I'd be very open to it. I just really like what he's about. I think he can set up a defense, which is good. I don't think, you know, I've had a defense for a couple of years. That's a good start. He's along the merino mindset and he's a bit of a pragmatist. You know what I mean? He sets up not to lose first, if that makes sense, which I like.
00:28:13
Speaker
He's very big on winning the ball back in transitional phases in the middle and start over the build-up, which I like. I think that's what Chelsea really benefited from in the early days. But you look at the United gig right now, right? And I would have said, you know, like you, Jesus, if you can get to get them, you know, absolutely, especially on a freebie. But the next 18 months, for me at least,
00:28:42
Speaker
I'm gonna define the next ten years of mine united you've got a chance now with the anyways coming in to really recalibrate is he the guy to do a rebuild.
00:28:55
Speaker
I don't think many people would say yes, but I won't say no because I think with the right recruitment and people around him, I do think he can work. It's very public that he doesn't like to deal with the recruitment and all that. He's a coach. Now that they've got the top C-suite guys, he's like, okay, sweet, you do you, I'll do me and we'll motor on.
00:29:22
Speaker
like honestly i think he's such a good coach like and i don't think he gets like i don't think he gets the credit for his actual coaching that he probably should um i think people latch on to is how short of a time he is at clubs and stuff but come on lads he's a world last coach like there's a couple of things about him um like the short short termism i think is a potential issue depending on how
00:29:48
Speaker
Brailsford and Radcliffe want to set the club up for the future. But if he's an Emery to your Arteta, what harm? And is there a club in need of a transfer overhaul? And I know you're saying that he doesn't particularly like to be hands-on with it. But I have some of his top signings that was done under his reins at clubs.
00:30:13
Speaker
It's quite a list. So, Killian Mbappe going to PSG was done under his watch. Lukaku going to Chelsea, the return, the big money one, not great. Kane going to Bayern. For Fana going to Chelsea, Kukarela going to Chelsea, Sterling going to Chelsea, Cardi going to PSG, Kim Minjae going to Bayern, Kula Bali going to Chelsea.
00:30:34
Speaker
Obviously, all these are very much like the big money ones. Yeah. But a little bit further on the list is a lot more interesting ones. So like Usman Dembele going to Dortmund was done under his watch. But is that true? Like, is that just by happening to be there?
00:30:51
Speaker
I mean, like, is this a director of football pulling the strings and... But a director of football signs players for that coach can use, or the signing coach can use the players. So like, these aren't... I'm not saying that he's the one that made this decision, but if you have...
00:31:07
Speaker
Yeah, like if you have a Dan Ashworth, it's going to come in, like that we know is very good at that kind of a job. And he sees it, he kind of goes, well, if he can handle it, Usman Dembele, well, then let's find players of that ilk. And Raphael Guerrero going to Dortmund was done under his watch. And he was a fantastic one to the radar signing. Mohammed Dahoud,
00:31:28
Speaker
who oh yeah didn't do well in the Premier League but he did very well um in in the Bundesliga he went went to Dortmund and did quite well at Dortmund um so like there is interesting signings done over his watch actually the less money he spent that was spent for him the better and I think that's exactly what Man United needs like if you even if you want to be very kind of like
00:31:51
Speaker
hands off with it, like some of the players that he was handed at Dortmund. Ellingham wasn't under him, wasn't it not? No, no, it was after him. But Alexander Isak was. Oh. He was given him at Dortmund and he brought him, he had to blood him through at Dortmund. Good God, he's actually been eating his wiedemicks lately. I just have to throw it in there. Jesus Christ. But like then Mark Barta coming from Barcelona,
00:32:19
Speaker
turned into like from that kind of a good young bit player to being a solid champions league group stage. Yeah. Neville defender for a good number of years. Emre Moore brought from being like from the Turkish, not the Turkish league, the Danish league into being like a Bundesliga level player. And then he dropped off. When you look at it like that, you look at United, like, I mean,
00:32:43
Speaker
You know, Nathan, you might be able to speak to this, but I read during the week that the entire team is up for sale, like open to offers. Yeah. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I think the United need a big culture reset, not only in the boardroom, but also on the pitch. And like, we've got that exciting group of youngsters, the class of 2022. And
00:33:07
Speaker
But I'd happily give him the institutional, because I think he brings that bit of discipline to a side that these youngsters probably need in some sense.
00:33:17
Speaker
And so, like, yeah, I think we need a big reshape. But like, we all agree that I think there's a court above the rest of the managers that are out there currently. Oh, yeah, for sure. And actually, just just before we go on, there's a couple of other players I want to mention here. Shinji Ozaki, before he went to Leicester, like when he was just a good, he had him at Mainz.
00:33:40
Speaker
and then friend of the podcast on Twitter anyway, Christian Fuchs at mines for Leicester. And then Rafinha going from Barca to PSG, he seems to be the kind of coach, I was just saying it, that can take players and do something with them. And I think, as I say, if he was to be your Emery to your Arteta, well, then that's a very, very strong position for United to be in, kind of go and listen
00:34:05
Speaker
if we throw these players, if we don't expect Touche will be managing in three years time, but we throw them these players, they're going to be blooded true. And they're going to be. If he can settle the ship and just kind of correct course and get just going in the right direction. We've said it for weeks at this point, like, yeah, he'll probably do three years max, but if you get a good three years out of them and you're get back comfortably in Champions League and you're kind of pushing up to up the table.
00:34:32
Speaker
I don't, Jesus, you'd put your hand off for that, you know? Actually, Nate, just on the other piece of that jigsaw to make it work, is there any update on Ashworth? Don't make Connor cry on the podcast. What has there been?
00:34:43
Speaker
Yeah, today actually, it looks like it's gonna happen. I'll get the actual word and not a book. Do we have a little mole quote coming here? Dan Ashworth is imminent and will be announced shortly. That's what I've been told. Today there was a meeting.
00:35:02
Speaker
where Sir Jim flew in a helicopter, landed on the training pages. Yeah. Baller move. All the staff accounted. That was the latest update on Ashford. He is in and will be announced shortly. Well, if he's announcing that to the full staff.
00:35:19
Speaker
like that's about as public an announcement because he knows that that's going to go around WhatsApp groups and and online forums so they seem pretty damn confident and if they're that confident it suggests to me that it's not going to cost them the 20 million that was touted. Yeah I don't think you're going to get that much money from I don't think because
00:35:43
Speaker
yeah like if it's moving on quickly i don't think you know they're gonna pay that money in for the sounds but it doesn't seem like you're gonna get it so that's a win but i do think just going on to asher is i think he could be the perfect man for two show because the one thing here is
00:36:01
Speaker
If we're going to go get Teusha, I don't see why we'd even go into it with the mindset that it's going to be a three-year thing. You have the perfect opportunity to work with Teusha to build a perfect environment for him as well. Do you know what I mean? And just see where it goes. Exactly. I wouldn't be writing the man's tombstone before he's ever appointed, but it's one of them kind of things that, like with a marina, you're kind of going, right, we're going to keep a few irons in the fire. We're not going to be looking at them.
00:36:31
Speaker
But we're going to keep tabs on. Yeah. You're lucky right now as well that the jobs that are at least currently available or look like they will be available coming up, United's probably the most enticing project for someone like Tougal. You know what I mean? Like, now that the Liverpool job's gone and Arnie Slott's kind of come in, he's kind of yours to lose, I think. Yeah, and I would gladly take him. How much has he lost?
00:37:01
Speaker
but like United's game is genuinely Bayern's loss.
Ralph Ragnick's Managerial Prospects
00:37:07
Speaker
Cause Connor, who's in the frame to replace him? It's a, it's a man united man. It's a Mr. Ralph Ragnick, which I know we all have differing opinions on this man. So some, I don't think any of us think he's terrible, but it baffles me.
00:37:30
Speaker
that he is, and this isn't me saying he's a bad manager. I just never thought when he left United, he'd ever get the chance to be at this high profile of a management opportunity again. I think that's more down to his age than anything. The other thing that really, really, really needs to be emphasized in these conversations, because I have seen it mentioned nowhere as of yet,
00:37:59
Speaker
In Germany, he's called their professor. That's what he's been known as for the guts of 20 years. Because back in the mid 2000s, he used to be on TV shows with a whiteboard explaining football tactics. It was the original Jamie Carragher is what you're saying.
00:38:18
Speaker
A lot more kind of like educational and less spitting in girls faces. But it was more like imagine match of the day with an audience. And then this guy just stands up in front of the audience says, well, here's how football should be played.
00:38:35
Speaker
Pre getting that gig at United though, when he was up in Russia, you cannot tell me he ever thought, A, Man United would come knocking. And I know he didn't expect to be the gaffer there, so slightly different. But there's no world in which he would have thought within however many years he'd be the heir apparent to Bayern Munich as manager. Not as wild as dreams, I don't think you would have seen that.
00:39:02
Speaker
No, but like, I think he just, I think he has a bad rep from then where people think that he can't manage. Well, he got severely burned from that, you know, I did think, and I know we've got, we've, we've talked about this before. Who hasn't? And, and, and, and that's the thing. And like, you know, I think when we talked about this last day, you were very much of the opinion that like,
00:39:27
Speaker
He didn't sign up for that job, so whatever came off the back of it really wasn't his problem or fault really.
00:39:35
Speaker
True, but I also don't see him as a manager. Do you know what I mean? Well, I just don't see him, like you don't see him in a tracksuit, you know, you know. Well, but also not that, like it's, I know he's known as a professor in Germany, but that was also a number of years ago. Do you know what I mean? But he's also the one that made Touchel, Touchel, he's the one that made Clop, Clop. They're like, he is the Bielsa to Pep for them. His line of thinking made Touchel, Touchel, Clop, Clop, but they also have their own styles.
00:40:04
Speaker
They do, come on, they do. Football is very different to two shows. It's just, there is, there it is. Like, there's a similar... For audio listeners, Kelly and Grimace did the mere idea and concept of this. It's not even that, like, so they have their own flavours on it. It's highly different to two shows. They have their own flavours on it in the same way that Pep has his own flavour, to be honest, in football. Yeah. With vinegar, you're the one catching up. You know what I mean? But it's very different, like... I've never heard that comparison, vinegar to catch up.
00:40:35
Speaker
The whole basis of Gengenpressen, which I always thought was a ridiculous statement because Jack Charles was doing that with Ireland in 1988, but the whole German style of that came from Ranjek.
00:40:48
Speaker
Yeah, whatever people might say that he's gone beyond being a manager now, that like he's a more a director and that's kind of what he's kind of specialized in. He's also the one that leveled out Leipzig at every turn. Like while he was doing the Red Bull project, he would go in and he'd write, like when they need to get promoted up, I think it was the second, from the third of the second division, went in, did that, or he got them from the second to the first. And then he came back in, write the ship again, and then he'd go off. Like he is very, very good at what he does.
00:41:17
Speaker
It's more that United was such a basket case. And when you listened, especially with Ollie coming out recently with the likes of the stick to football and stuff.
00:41:26
Speaker
And you hear all of what Ollie was saying of his suggestions that United ignored. It lends credence to everything Ralph said after he left about being ignored. That United was the problem. Like this man has a 60 something percent win rate with Austria. But the problem was, you know, not following through after that time, but he was still shy as a manager when he was there. Well, I also think he's not equipped to and where I think he may struggle is
00:41:56
Speaker
Austria is a certain level of player, but when you now have the likes of Harry Kane
00:42:04
Speaker
That's a different type of manager required to navigate that kind of player. Yeah, I don't think he's going to get to respect it. No, they're going to be like, Jesus, he's coming in. I think in Germany he will get that respect. That's my bigger point. I don't think in Man United he ever would have gotten that because I think in United I think some of the players in there are so
00:42:27
Speaker
In fairness, if you look at the likes of Rashford, how many managers come and gone under him now? Like, he is like what John O'Shea was to Sunderland when Sunderland got relegated, because up until that point, I think Lee Catmull come out and said afterwards, kind of going, well, it was like, we're going to be here anyway, you're going to be gone in a few months. Well, Ragnick would have got a fair shake, I think, that if he'd just come in as manager.
00:42:48
Speaker
But like, it, you know, it's, it's like, he was interim. And that was never like, this is the thing, like, why would a player buy into? Well, I'm sure you're going to be gone a few months. But like, even in, even if they kind of knew he was coming in as interim manager, I think any high profile players, like why on earth are we getting the director of football being our manager? It's like, what are we doing here? Yeah, but I don't, that's one thing I'm saying is like, in Germany, I don't think they see him as
Football Tactics in the Bundesliga
00:43:13
Speaker
that.
00:43:13
Speaker
I think they see him as a manager that has done great things on a director's level. Whereas in England, that's all they know of us. Oh, Red Bull. He did great there. Can I offend some Bundesliga enjoyers real quick? Run free, my man.
00:43:29
Speaker
That league has never seen a low block in its life. I've watched about 10 Bundesliga games this season. Why is every team defending on a half-way line? I don't understand. They don't know what a low block is. Throw Burnley in that league and it's going to be mayhem. That's all I'm going to say is they don't know. Everyone just gets pumped 5-0.
00:43:54
Speaker
To be honest, you can actually blame Ranjuk for that because all the teams tried to copy him because what he did was so good. So the whole thing of like high press, just get the ball back up there. Don't let them get back here.
00:44:09
Speaker
was him so like if this is like bringing bring pet back to La Liga now he'll do very very good and this is gonna be like you're big you're you're bigging him up here and you're putting some serious kerosene on the plane I think he is phenomenal and the fact that he has been a
00:44:28
Speaker
on the director level for as long as he has means he's probably one of the only managers out there that is equipped to deal with the basket case that is by me that I will agree with in this unique circumstance it will actually help that he's had those roles because he'll understand the pressures of a problem if he's any way diplomatic he'll be able to navigate it better than an out-and-out manager
00:44:52
Speaker
but I like I said I'm baffled that he's in the discussion if he like he is getting it like there's there's no two ways about it but to go from Tougal to him is as Nate would say vinegar to catch up
00:45:08
Speaker
I want to see a big Sam in the Bundesliga. He would literally drive a riot in Germany. Like literal riots at the stadium. It needs to happen. I need to see a Bundesliga team low block. I need to see the possible. Make the low block great again.
00:45:26
Speaker
like i don't care like like is there no transition into germany of other footballing ideas i did also have a ban on on low block football i saw a tweet and i was like it's in constitution and leading germany that you can't defend beyond the halfway line with the ball and go to half like fuck i i i do think like
00:45:51
Speaker
He's, he's, his name is getting mowed on it for absolutely no reason. Like he's... They're doing no favors calling on the professor because the professor to me will always be Arson Wenger. I'm, I'm not sure how long Ranjak has had it, but it could be around the same era. Ranjak started managing in the eighties.
00:46:16
Speaker
Like he's been around, he, he retired as a football, very, very young. Yeah. And the thing about him though, he started at like local level. Yeah. Like he was like me and my football manager, save Kelsey and I Kelsel to use that level. And he worked his way back up. So like he has a full grassroots knowledge. And like the other thing about it as well,
00:46:42
Speaker
for Byron on why I think it could be very, very, very, very astute is on that kind of board level, after the can sacking and that whole kind of, it seems that their whole board is very, very disjointed. And if they're clever and get behind them and you don't get somebody like Ralph Rannigan and not be together, hence the Man United failure, that
00:47:03
Speaker
he could actually go and fix their board level while he's the manager. Like, this could be a whole thing. I can't go right. I'm going to come in, set his ship, get his back winning. But then do you think he jumps back into C-suite at Munich? Absolutely. Yeah, smart. OK. And then his tenure in total, even with the directorship, could be three or four years, and the thing will be transformed. Like, his time with Leipzig brought the overall football value of Red Bull from 120 million to over a billion euro.
00:47:33
Speaker
with that.
00:47:34
Speaker
not all that a club like me to care about but that is a major but don't forget what that entitled was like he's the one to put in the scouting networks for Salzburg to get all these amazing African players and for the likes of a Haaland to come true like he's the one to put in that infrastructure he's the one to put in the tactics that allowed the likes of a Jesse Marsh or a Hassen hootle to come true and do well in like
00:48:04
Speaker
There's so, and the other thing as well that, um, there is rumors around. So the under 19s manager of Byron is actually linked with someone at the minute and marriage, but apparently there was conversations about him making a move up to the main team, be it as like an assistant. So they could be looking for more of like what Dortmund have done, but kind of getting like a little bit more of an internal promotion again.
00:48:29
Speaker
That's interesting in terms of that. On a side side note, between this and Arnie Slott, Jesus, the managerial appointments lately have been tremendously underwhelming.
Trends in Managerial Appointments
00:48:41
Speaker
In terms of, there's not really been any blockbuster ones. Even the Tookle thing, because he's going to be free, he's just like, yeah, makes sense. There's no like, oh, holy shit, look who's going where type thing.
00:48:55
Speaker
I don't know. Obviously, I'm very excited about Crankjk. I think anytime he can get his flowers, I am very, very happy. I can tell. Don't forget, if TooShall gets the United job, that means 10 hag has been sacked. That's a fairly monumental shift.
00:49:13
Speaker
mutual departure. That's how I feel. But it's an acceptance that the project failed. But mutual is just a polite way of saying, we're giving you the A. It's hard to say it's mutual. When you look at Ragnik though, he's like, I know he's kind of bawling out as much as he can for the Austrian national team. He's got a 9 on 62% win rate.
00:49:37
Speaker
But overall, throughout his whole career, he averages a 47.8. And for a Bayern Munich manager, that doesn't really cut it. Like, you look at his last couple of gigs, so outside the 61.9 for Austria, United, OK, do we take it into consideration or not? I don't know. It's just shy of 34%. Leipzig the second time, he was 55%. Leipzig the first time, 58%.
00:50:03
Speaker
Schalke 43, Hoffenheim 47, Schalke the first time 55. Geez, he loves returning to a club, but you know what I mean? Like it's not massive. But don't forget to put that in context though. He was going against Bayern Munich. Yeah. And he's going against Dortmund. And even in some of the earlier appointments, he would have been going against Leverkusen the last time they were good, or when Hamburg still had money.
00:50:30
Speaker
his Schalke team, I think maybe his second one, would have been Jefferson Farfan and maybe a 37-year-old Raoul. I think he actually brought you Manuel Neuer at Schalke as well. Put it in context. They're pretty damn good to have. If you look at any decent mid-table,
00:50:55
Speaker
manager in the Premier League or even upper mid table. Now, say I like it, like sort of a deserby or a Thomas Frank that people would be kind of going while they're destined for the next top. I guarantee it. They're in and around the same, if not a little bit less.
00:51:07
Speaker
When, when you look at one thing, I think with this role as well, and I, I think you're right. If he does take the road, he is looking at that CC, C-suite swing in a couple of years. Cause like, I'm not saying he's old, he's 65 plenty of life left in him. But like, if, if Munich goes awry, I don't see him getting a managerial job again. Like, you know, he's at Austria currently. That's a pretty cushy gig where he could hold it down for a while. So unless he is looking at it through the lens of.
00:51:37
Speaker
couple of years management and then jump into the C-suite. This could be his last gig, I think. Yeah. Other than maybe another national team one, which again is a glorified, which is a glorified fucking directorship. It's like an, it's like an ambassadorship really, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Just, just as a side note, Deserby at Brighton has a 44% win rate. Okay. That does give good context. I'm starting to think Deserby might be a bit overrated.
00:52:04
Speaker
Why? He's a little bit. I know over it doesn't mean bad, okay? Let's get that. But there's reasons why clubs aren't approaching him in my opinion. Something's not. Something's keeping clubs away in my opinion. I think the big thing with him is he is as good a coach as Graham Potter.
00:52:25
Speaker
And it's only taken 52 minutes, my friends. Green Potter is in the mix. He's got some living cows at Green Potter. What's going on here? This is the perfect episode. But I think he is as good a coach as Green Potter and the Chelsea experiment, which I think we can all agree is more of a Chelsea problem than a Potter problem.
00:52:45
Speaker
I'm considering that Pochettino was apparently on the way out, which again, spiced things up because I did see just there as I was scrolling that there's a rumor that Tuchel might choose Chelsea over United, which I don't think he got score in the last time he was there. He'd be mental to go there because Chelsea is a dumpster fire right now. And I think, as Robbie said last week, I think Pochettino is getting a raw deal here because without him, they'd be a lot lower down in that table.
00:53:14
Speaker
100%. But I think when you keep that in context of Potter, I think that's part of the reason why Deserby is not being as linked as he was maybe two years ago. But we mentioned him already, Ernie Slotlads, what do we think?
00:53:33
Speaker
I really don't know much about him. You know, I've been joking to everyone that listen that I think he looks like Michael Van Guren, but that's about as much as I know about the bloke. Like, I mean, from a little bit of digging, it seems like I think the reason they went with him over Amorim is his style of play is relatively similar to clap while Amorim would have been a bit of a shift. And I think
00:54:00
Speaker
Go feeling he'll be there a couple of years. He's not going to be a long term manager. I'm sure they'll do fine. This could come to bite me in the arse and he could be the best thing since sliced bread. But to me, it just seems like a bit of a day with boys. To be honest, I'd be very on the way on this. If you know it went from like.
00:54:20
Speaker
i think the fact that he is a bit like clap will come back to bite them in the end they're not being a bit risky um but yeah like i just i don't like i don't you know like he seems like a bit of a plane jane it's the most meh appointment you've heard in a long time like i don't know what you what are you thinking i think it's a very very risky um appointment because like if you look at some of the managers that have
00:54:45
Speaker
one the area to visit over the last few years that I've made moves to say the UK
00:54:53
Speaker
They've been underwhelming at best, 10 hag, Philip Kaku, who won with PSV. He ended up in Derby and didn't particularly last that long. He did find a Derby championship though. Giovanni Vampron course, who's doing fine with Rangers. But they're all very meh. They're like, they're all kind of, probably harsh, but they're just, they're middle of the road managers.
00:55:19
Speaker
Yeah, like considering like Steve McLaren has won in the Aerodivisie, like it's not great now. Van Hal, like Van Hal is probably one of the better managers to have won the Aerodivisie and come to the Premier League. Looking back at his time at United, I actually have a little more respect for what he did there as time has passed.
00:55:42
Speaker
I think actually most managers in retrospect were doing like better, like Mourinho was better than he was, we were led to believe. Ollie was much better than he, we were all led to believe. Like, I think 10 high will actually come off worse in future than
00:55:59
Speaker
like i think ten i could be closer to a more easily will it be a merino it looks like we said before he'll get a job yet like he'll still be managing going forward it might take him a year or two i absolutely see him at a dormant that's yeah that's the code we've kind of said is is the perfect option for him but i yeah i think if you go to bard like i do
00:56:21
Speaker
Yeah, I'm sure he was there as an assistant, wasn't he? Jesus, it's a united merry-go-round, these managers, like, Christ. Like, honestly, I think he's had a hard time at, you know, he might not be the perfect fit for us. He isn't, but I do think he's a top manager still. I think where his issue with Byron would be, though, is we've said this before, that he needs the people above him to be capable, and right now they aren't at Byron.
00:56:48
Speaker
Well, maybe Ralph will fix it for him. Yeah, I think it's for the fans. To go from Jabbieland to Arnie's slot is just boring. But that's also press talk. There's only so much credence you can put in that. So you have to take it as you're going from clop to Arnie's slot.
00:57:10
Speaker
Not great. At least when Klopp came in, it was off the back of a good Dortmund team. Now I know there was a waiver at the end, but it was still kind of like, he came out of nowhere, did very well, and took a bit of time out and came to Liverpool. Also, like, maybe they'll like the kind of Dutchness of him. I think he's closer to a ten-hag than he is a Klopp in press, though.
00:57:37
Speaker
It's funny seeing Liverpool fans try to justify the appointment. Oh, that's great. It's so good. I like that. Come on, he's a disappointment. You just have to come out and be like, yeah, great. Irony slot. I mean, Klopp's making it easier for him now with their kind of stumble to the end of the season. I want to know if it's a Michael Edwards appointment, number one. Number two, if it's not, then
00:58:03
Speaker
i think deliverable ownership i've got the tone of the fans very wrong well if it isn't a michael edwards appointment you'd be absolutely fuming if you're a michael edwards it's like i bought into this project he gave me the keys and you're giving me this guy i could see it being boys like honestly just i'm not like
00:58:25
Speaker
put them up beside each other but just purely the fact that if he doesn't get off to a good start the fans will be against him pretty quickly. And also like the Liverpool like I don't know anything about Ernie Slott's kind of personality to be honest but like to be accepted as a Liverpool manager
00:58:45
Speaker
is one of the more unique jobs that you need to have a certain personality to fit in. We talked about this previously as well. They reveal fans will back their players, back their managers to the hilt if they buy in. But if this guy doesn't buy in quick, it could turn sour fast. He's probably on a three-year deal is my guess. I don't know.
00:59:13
Speaker
Probably I don't think there's any details anything any trustworthy details have been revealed anyway, like One thing I would say about him that had me a little bit worried was When he was manager of AZ alkamer and did well with them He accepted the fair nord job, that's fine He got sacked by AZ before the end of the season because he was too focused on fair nord so like
00:59:38
Speaker
Does he, is he constantly looking beyond the end of his own nose? Is he always kind of like, what's my next one? And in fairness, what, a month and a half before the end of the season? He's saying, I want to be the Liverpool manager. Yeah. It's a trend bait. It's not a great indication. Now fans could say, well, he just wants it so much. That's fantastic. But
01:00:02
Speaker
Yeah, but it's the same way that like, I know it's not, it's different circumstances, but it's still annoys me how Anthony Gordon treated Everton before he came up to Newcastle. It's that kind of like, play the game, you know?
01:00:16
Speaker
Yeah, it's a best-case scenario to beige flag, if not a full-on red. Yeah, beige flag for sure. That's a quick one, yeah? Our good friend, Eamonn Dunphy, yeah? He had a go o'clock the other day, and I want to read out his quote. Go. Okay. The decision to announce his departure mid-season was self-indulgent and reckless.
01:00:38
Speaker
And so instead of Liverpool being free to concentrate on a title chase, all the attention instead has focus on who's coming in to replace their manager. That creates uncertainty in players and leads to drama we saw with Mo Salah. He's summed it up perfectly, I'm not gonna lie. Yeah, like he's known my opinion on Klopp, first personality statue in Premier League history, after Michael Jackson, I guess. But yeah, it's
01:01:08
Speaker
It was one of them ones, as we said before, it was always going to be hard to keep under wraps, and for considering they had it under wraps for as long as they did, was quite good going. But yeah, it has...
01:01:22
Speaker
Like, it's completely changed how every game of Liverpool is going to be perceived. Well, it went from do quadruples in play, which they were never going to win, but like, it was, it was in play to the wheels are falling off, you know, like, maybe that sounds worse than, than it is, but like, it's from where they were 10 games ago to now, it's, it's, it's a vinegar and ketchup.
01:01:47
Speaker
There's another thing as well that I've also seen creep into the fans. I'm not saying it was widespread, but there's been definitely a few comments kind of going, oh, well, the players have lost this for Klopp. It wasn't Klopp's fault. Are you suddenly setting up the team to fail for when he's gone? Well, I just don't know why they did it. As in, like,
01:02:11
Speaker
What better, like, yeah, I understand that could have rallied the club and the fans like, you know, atmospheres would be amazing. Fans would be like, let's do it for a year again. But like, I just think it's a lose lose doing it like that early in the season. I just like, why not keep it early? Even tell the players, don't let it leak publicly, which is nigh on impossible. So you'd probably not have to tell the players, keep it between the owners and him. And then coming into the last game of the season,
01:02:40
Speaker
wherever they are, whether it's in sixth place or first place, this is my last season. This will be my last game. I think that's the way to do it. Yeah. One thing, though, it makes me very, very, very excited for the Liverpool documentary. I just can't wait for it all just to end in tears. See, I think this documentary is going to be one of the way like you like would even get the full access. You know what I mean? It's going to be
01:03:08
Speaker
like yeah I don't see them giving much access in terms of... It'll be like the Man City ones and the Juventus ones where it's all very much like oh aren't we great aren't we great crackers. The Arsenal one and Spurs one was good. Yeah like I still don't think any of them beats like I know like the Crystal Palace one was a very good style. Yeah that was amazing that.
01:03:29
Speaker
But it was also in retrospect, whereas the sudden until I die, you got to see, whilst I think the access could have been more, you got to see some of the dirty parts of it. When you had the training ground actively saying that he doesn't like the managers, basically. You're not going to see that in the Liverpool one. Especially because it's such an institution of a club they need to keep face. They're also
01:03:54
Speaker
from a shareholder perspective, there's just too much there financially to allow access like that, you know? Also, I know we mentioned it before when we were talking about the previous appointment of Liverpool, Amaran, but we were saying about the importance of trying to keep players like Salah and all that. Well, Arnie's slot isn't exactly the kind of manager that's going to go, hey,
01:04:17
Speaker
Look who we have coming in, Mo. Makes life easier for Slott if Sal has gone. Honest to God. Absolutely. And I did say not too long ago that I think they need to get players like him gone and just new generation, accept two years of not doing great and then be ready for the next one. But any opportunity they have of trying to keep some of these big players, only Slott's not the man to convince them.
01:04:41
Speaker
But not also that. What is pulling power in the transfer market? I don't know.
01:04:48
Speaker
Liverpool or any slot in Jared, I don't know if that's a good looking... What's so interesting though, and that is like, arguably we know as much about Amorim as we do about slot. If anything, we know maybe a tiny bit more about Amorim. But for some reason in my head, if Amorim is there, there's more polling power than there is with slot. There's just something about slot that's just like,
01:05:13
Speaker
There's been too many failures come from narrative is he like there's been too many players and managers not hit the heights where it's from Portugal. There's much better Like if you wanted like if let's say worst comes to worst and slot is 10 high 2.0 when he is the scouting network for the club who is he gonna get Quentin timber urean's brother and Rasmus Zaruki
01:05:39
Speaker
Sounds like a vegetable. Chivalo Reed Santiago Jimenez. You know what I'm like with Foppa Mangerlads? I'm struggling with these lads. I know about four of the Mickey Van Sans I've heard of.
01:05:57
Speaker
But the other thing is, going back to the polling pair, he doesn't even know who he's going to have next season. It's definitely going to be next season, I'm really looking forward to in terms of Liverpool on the brink of what could be the start of a United-esque decline, United on the verge of what could be a Liverpool-esque
01:06:23
Speaker
incline and and city with that court case lube and it's it's gonna be interesting boys oh i can't wait for the court case for city like it does irk me when like we do have the coverage and the 115 charges are never mentioned in their successes like it should just always just be a little asterisk
01:06:42
Speaker
And we did day by day, like going through the Toronto. Oh, we're going full. I get the Christie vibes on that. Oh, like outside the courthouse last day, like heard it going. Where is the court case actually being held? It'll probably be in a hotel, like it's too fast. It's fine after court cases. It'll be a kangaroo court in...
01:07:05
Speaker
Depending on where it happens, it's Man City. They love an el corkas. I just know for a fact this case will start. They'll wrap it up in litigation and this thing will go on for another five years. I know they're finally making a date, but I don't see a verdict coming out of this.
01:07:21
Speaker
only thing though is because of the Premier League doing it, what could happen is they could, even if it was to be overturned, they could make a big statement by pulling them up and like taking away some titles. Even if it was overturned. My only thing with that man is like, as much as I want to see City get absolutely done for this, it's the same thing with like the Lance Armstrong taking away the seven Tour de France's. It's kind of like,
01:07:52
Speaker
Whether it was drugs or not, he won them. There's no point rewriting history here and going, you know, at that point, I think, you know, I do know, I do know what you mean. Like, I do think it would always like,
01:08:12
Speaker
be one of them kind of ones that City didn't win it, but nobody else did. So I'd be happy with that. I'd be very happy just for them to go, listen, you cheated. You don't get to win it. We're not going to change the record necessarily, but we're putting cheat beside you. It just has to be
01:08:32
Speaker
Well, I think the only way, I don't so much mind if the title stay with them because look, they won them and they want to play in some sexy football. But I think cripple them financially in terms of how much they're allowed spend for a five year period is probably the most achievable. I don't like them. Like look how Chelsea got around it. They just sign all the players first. Yeah.
01:08:57
Speaker
Yeah, that's a very easy one to go around. But there's going to be the new Premier League rules about spending anyway that the majority of the clubs are going for. But we'll have to chat about that another week, maybe when it comes true. Gentlemen, thank you very, very much. It was an absolutely fantastic chat. This has been The Nautilus Podcast. I've been Killeen Ginnity. Delighted to be joined by Conor Glennon. It's been a pleasure, boys. And by Nathan Byrne. Thank you. We'll chat you next week. Bye-bye.
01:09:26
Speaker
Messy! Messy! Oh my goodness! Atelier! That is extraordinary! What a hit! What a hit! Back of the net.