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CMCL Interview: Chris Ruden
55 Plays4 months ago
In this episode of Changing Minds & Changing Lives, Julie Sowash welcomes Chris Ruden, a world record-holding powerlifter, motivational speaker, inclusion advocate, and finalist on NBC’s Titan Games. Born with a disability and later diagnosed with type 1 diabetes, Chris shares how years of hiding his hand shaped his understanding of self-acceptance, resilience, and ultimately, his purpose.
Julie and Chris delve into the complexities of psychological safety at work, examining why it cannot be reduced to a simple yes-or-no question and how leaders can foster cultures of trust and belonging through consistency, active listening, and authenticity. Chris also discusses the impact of internalized ableism, offering candid insight into his own journey from self-doubt to empowerment, and the pivotal moments that helped him stop hiding and step fully into his identity.
Together, they examine the difference between showing up for employees versus speaking on their behalf, the risks companies take when retreating from diversity and inclusion commitments, and why the future of work must be human-centered. This conversation is both deeply personal and broadly practical, offering lessons for leaders, allies, and anyone striving to create a world where people are valued for who they are—not just what they have.
What We Talk About:
- The meaning of psychological safety at work and why it’s not a simple yes/no answer.
- The impact of internalized ableism and how to overcome it.
- Why trust, listening, and curiosity are the foundation of true inclusion.
- What companies risk when they retreat from DEI—and how authentic leadership can rebuild trust.
Notes:
Chris Ruden is an internationally recognized speaker and disability advocate who helps organizations build cultures of inclusion, resilience, and belonging. Born with a congenital disability and later diagnosed with type 1 diabetes, Chris turned years of hiding into a mission of empowerment, challenging audiences to rethink bias and embrace change. Visit ChrisRuben.com for more.
Changing Minds & Changing Lives is produced by Disability Solutions, a nonprofit consulting firm and job board that partners with global brands to drive inclusive hiring and disability-inclusive talent strategies.
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Transcript
Introduction and Host Background
00:00:07
Speaker
Hi everyone, welcome back to another episode of Changing Minds, Changing Lives. My name is Julie Sowash, as always your host. I am the former executive director and co-founder of Disability Solutions, now support that team as a strategic advisor, also the CEO of Catch-22 Group.
Guest Introduction: Chris Rudin
00:00:26
Speaker
um And ah like on our last show, because I had so much to talk about with the guests that I'm about to bring on, um I just want to dive right in and bring our guests in to talk about some things that we haven't talked a lot about um on this show before and I think really deserve our full time
Overcoming Disability and Personal Challenges
00:00:45
Speaker
and attention. So I want to introduce Chris Rudin, who is a world record holding power lifter.
00:00:53
Speaker
motivational speaker, disability and inclusion advocate, and finalist on the Titan Games with Dwayne The Rock Johnson. ah Chris was born with a disability and later diagnosed with type 1 diabetes.
00:01:05
Speaker
um Chris has turned adversity into impact, helping organizations and individuals rethink bias, break limits, and build cultures of real inclusion. um Chris, welcome to Changing Minds, Changing Lives.
00:01:19
Speaker
Thank you for having me. I'm excited for this conversation. Yeah, no, I'm so thrilled to talk to you. Tell us a little bit about you. um Obviously, you very impressive powerlifting um television and advocacy career, but but what else is is there in your world?
00:01:36
Speaker
ah On paper, I look really cool. But I feel like anyone can kind of tweak that to look awesome, not to sideline accomplishments. But the majority of my life, I felt broken.
00:01:50
Speaker
You know, I was born with physical disability of two fingers on my left hand and a shorter left arm. I didn't get diagnosed with type one diabetes until I was 19. But my entire life I grew up looking and functioning different.
00:02:02
Speaker
You know, now I have a super cool bionic arm that's like a carbon fiber black bionic arm. But for 17 years, I hid my hand.
00:02:13
Speaker
You know, I was made fun of from elementary school on, but middle school really was a turning point for me where I started hiding my hand and I shoved my hand in my pocket. ah From that point, I kept my hand in my pocket for almost 20 years.
00:02:28
Speaker
through partners, living with people for multiple years to finally living my life at 27 years old. That's when I stopped hiding my hand. I made a video and that went viral and it kind of led to everything that I'm doing now as a professional speaker, professional powerlifting and bodybuilding, and now just helping people see their world without limits and trying to break some of these biases along the way.
00:02:52
Speaker
Yeah, amazing. I always appreciate, um and I think we'll talk about it more later, but we all benefit so much from hearing the stories of everyday lives lived and and how you um came to to be fully comfortable with yourself and who you are and how you were made.
00:03:11
Speaker
um So thank you for for starting with that.
The Disability at Work Survey
00:03:14
Speaker
and it And it kind of, i think, segues nicely into and one of the the topics I want to cover with you today. So with Disability Solutions, we started in 2024 survey called the Disability at Work Survey.
00:03:31
Speaker
And we always try to make sure that outside of just taking the the static data that we want to measure year over year, that we mentioned something that is particularly relevant and supplemental to this particular year.
00:03:48
Speaker
And so this year we're working on kind of the impact of how diversity, equity, and inclusion um has impacted potentially psychological safety and inclusion for for people, employees with disabilities, their comfort levels around disclosure, whether it's checking that box ah in in the ATS system or the HRS system, or just even talking for and asking for that accommodation.
Building Psychological Safety at Work
00:04:17
Speaker
And so, I mean, talk to me a little bit about what does true psychological safety look like for you, for a disabled professional, for a new employee with a disability entering the workforce?
00:04:33
Speaker
Well, I think we have to remember that psychological safety or comfort doesn't exist in a vacuum. And that's often why it's ah really hard to work around because people are saying, do you feel safe, yes or no? And I don't believe it's a yes or no.
00:04:48
Speaker
question because there there are so many different factors. It's multifaceted. Where are you at in your life? Where are you at your personal comfort level? Where are you at with your peers? Where are you at with the overall culture culture of the organization?
00:05:03
Speaker
I really feel like there's macro and micro factors to psychological safety, if that makes sense. And it's the compound effect of all of those factors that lead to someone feeling more or less safe.
00:05:17
Speaker
I would almost argue there is no absolute psychological safety because that would completely remove the human experience of we we live in uncertain times. That's what life is, ah uncertainty. But how do we create the most amount of psychological safety?
00:05:33
Speaker
That's going to look like one internally. How are you with yourself speaking specifically from disability? that internalized ableism or the those feelings of ah confidence or contentment or what is your mindset around yourself.
00:05:49
Speaker
And then we go to actual like external factors like leadership, culture, bias, stigma, or ableism in the workspace. We had the political factor, you know, we had the socioeconomic factor. There's so many factors that lead to psychological safety that bleed into other areas. So I think you have to take it piece by piece.
00:06:10
Speaker
But when we specifically talk about workplace culture, there are certain things leaders can do to create a safer space.
Creating Inclusive Work Environments
00:06:16
Speaker
And that's just making people feel welcome, making people feel like they belong and not ostracizing someone for what they have or don't have.
00:06:25
Speaker
I truly believe a big, I don't want to say burden, but a big responsibility of leaders is to make sure that people belong or don't feel on the outside.
00:06:37
Speaker
And that's through actually seeing people for who they are, who they are, and not what they have or don't have. Does that make sense? Yeah, no, it it totally does. and And I appreciate the way that you put it.
00:06:49
Speaker
Because I never really thought of psychological safety on a continuum. um But it's not only a continuum, it's also dynamic.
00:07:02
Speaker
When i I feel safe in X situation doesn't mean I feel safe in the same situation the next day. Absolutely. And so, you know, just speaking of, I guess, how...
00:07:15
Speaker
tenuous psychological safety can be for a variety of groups, but in particular people with disabilities and in this current climate. um You know, what are some things that companies can solidly do to help create space for disabled workers in a way that is not tokenizing and is also not clearly marketing.
00:07:48
Speaker
And I'm glad you brought that up because you know, a lot of people tend to check the box and I was a big proponent of like, stop checking the box, stop just checking the box. And then I realized some people genuinely think they're doing great. Their intentions are fantastic.
00:08:04
Speaker
but they don't understand at depth what that looks like. So given the political climate we're in, there are some clear limitations with what we can do. And I think we have to address that. We have to acknowledge that sometimes the environment is not the most optimal or conducive for the most amount of psychological safety.
00:08:23
Speaker
It would be hard to argue against that in the current political climate that we're in. Now, the question is, what can we do regardless of that climate? Leaders, I think, forget the importance of consistency and ah repetition or or just showing up consistently for your employees and giving them a space to be heard.
00:08:45
Speaker
Not just once a year on a celebration month, not just once a month for an ERG meeting. How can you consistently remind people that you see them and you hear them?
00:08:58
Speaker
by consistently listening and consistently giving a platform to for people who are exposed or more vulnerable to less psychological safety in the climate we're in, let alone any climate, being consistently there for your employees of all minorities or marginalization is one of the easiest ways to provide a a comfortable level of psychological safety as a reminder that you're seen, you're valued, and I have your back.
00:09:27
Speaker
That in in some of the companies that I speak for, I've talked with some of the leaders and they're like, there's not much else we can do other than just showing up daily and weekly for our employees.
00:09:37
Speaker
And that that is a huge starter, a huge component of creating ah familiarity with safety. And I think that's what we need to do is create familiarity with safety through consistency.
00:09:51
Speaker
i like I like the way that you're thinking about that. and And I guess I would add or I think expand upon where you're at is that when you talk a lot about leaders showing up for their people and I think sometimes as people leaders, like middle management people leaders, sometimes we feel like only the CEO can create change. Only this the COO can create change.
00:10:15
Speaker
um But really, we work for good bosses or or we leave bad bosses, right? And that's not any different for people with disabilities. So teaching, having a culture where It is the attitude of middle management that we show up every day for our employees.
00:10:34
Speaker
We don't have a checklist to get through. Our job as leaders is to develop, mentor, and ah create the optimal environment for our teams to be successful in doing what they're doing.
00:10:48
Speaker
I think that's just so beautifully said by you that, you know, it is really about showing up every day for people and 99% of the time that's going to happen on the one-to-one level.
00:11:00
Speaker
Absolutely. And I think we tend to confuse showing up for ah with speaking for Just because someone has a disability doesn't mean they need to be spoken for.
00:11:14
Speaker
Arguably, they need to be spoken to, not for. Giving people, showing up for your for your employees with disabilities means showing up to listen, not showing up to ignore or showing up to represent.
00:11:28
Speaker
This is not a time for you to be, I guess the best way i could say it is lead by listening. You know, being listened to curiosity will take leaders so far in creating culture and inclusion, but in reality, belonging, which reduces the ah lack of psychological safety.
00:11:49
Speaker
If less than 30% of people feel safe at work, I mean, 70% of people are not operating their best. And there's a business case for that. There's a humanity case for that.
00:12:00
Speaker
But that's mostly because we get caught up in the work by people and we don't get caught up in the people that do the work. yeah We have to prioritize people. And if we want to prioritize the innovation and the future and all of this, we have to put people first. And you can't put people first if you don't listen to them.
00:12:17
Speaker
Psychological safety and listening are synonymous. So one of my favorite stories from the beginning of my marriage is when when I got married, my husband and i we went to see a counselor together because we were like really committed to our love.
00:12:31
Speaker
and ah And the counselor always used to tell him, if you could just take off your... your your belt, right, your workman's belt with all your hammers and your screwdrivers and all of those things.
00:12:43
Speaker
And just listen to the words that your wife are saying. That's all that she wants right now. I still remind him of that story all the time. visual I really love that for a lot of reasons. Exactly what it reminded me of when you said that is, and this happens all of the time in consulting, as I'm sure you can you can attest, is that you have allies who are so committed to supporting their coworker with XYZ disability or the group in general that they go into immediately into fix it mode.
00:13:17
Speaker
yeah how can i How can I talk to so and so leader about making you know my employee with a disability's workstation better? How can I make sure that my coworker with ADHD is getting what she he or she needs to be effective?
00:13:33
Speaker
And you know we have to sit back and say, you have to allow people to advocate for themselves. And they're also capable of advocating for ourselves. and And by feeling like you need to do that, you can also infantilize your coworkers, your employees, your colleagues um who just need you to hear what their needs are, allow that you as as their ally to be that safe space, um and then encourage them to go forward in advocating for the things that they need for themselves.
00:14:08
Speaker
i I think it it is too, there's there's two elements at work here. There's the people without bad intentions that are trying genuinely to improve the situation, but they lack the awareness of what they're doing to the person with the disability.
00:14:23
Speaker
And then there's a person with the disability that needs to learn to communicate in a way that's ah more we and not just throwing stones at people. I think we've been, as a disabled community, we've been hurt so many times that anyone who does anything wrong, we're ready to throw stones at them.
00:14:43
Speaker
And I know for me personally, i went through so much hiding my disability and feeling broken and useless and helpless the majority of my life, maybe because of society or ableism or internalized ableism, that anyone who who came at me around my disability was evil or was the problem.
00:15:01
Speaker
And it took me peeling back that and saying, like, listen, their intentions are good. How can I correct the situation? I can't just say you're wrong because that doesn't solve anything. You know, if you get a flat tire, pointing at the flat tire and telling it it's bad does nothing.
00:15:16
Speaker
So we have to ask ourselves, what can we do with our current situation
Rebuilding Trust in DEI Initiatives
00:15:20
Speaker
to make this better? And it's it's hard. It's really hard. But curiosity on both ends allows people to see multiple solutions and potentially move forward.
00:15:31
Speaker
It's not about right or wrong. It's about optimal or less optimal. And that's one thing my therapist taught me that I loved is not seeing things right or wrong and start seeing things as is this going to help the situation or hurt the situation.
00:15:45
Speaker
I might have to put that one to into practice. that That's a good one. It stopped demonizing possibilities and solutions. And it just started saying, is this going to help you or hurt you?
00:15:56
Speaker
And you know the answer. Yeah, and I think something else you said just really stood out to me is curiosity. um i think as humans, I agree, like 98%, I would say, of people that I've engaged with through the last 15 years of this work who are not disabled want to do the right thing they want to be supportive they want their their employees or their staff people to be successful but they are so scared of hurting someone's feelings of offending someone of being the recipient of some of those stones that that we throw um that we end up shutting down a lot of conversations and so you know really just
00:16:45
Speaker
accepting that most people are working from a place of positive intent. and the only way to know that is to give that opportunity for that curiosity and for people to ask questions that are probably dumb, definitely dumb.
00:16:59
Speaker
it to They should be dumb because if they know the answers, they probably wouldn't be having the conversation in the first place. ah Good point. The best way to figure out if you can trust someone is by trusting them.
00:17:13
Speaker
we We are so often wanting from other people what we're not willing to give ourselves. And know it that it's really tough. And that's part of the stuff I speak about on stage because yes, ah inclusion is important. Culture is important, but trust,
00:17:30
Speaker
Trust is what connects people. That's that bridge from from people to people. And trust improves with psychological safety, ah but you have to give people the opportunity to be trusted.
00:17:44
Speaker
You have to give that trust. And it's hard, but especially if trust has been broken many, many times before. But if 30 people broke your trust in the past, you can't continually assume that everyone's going to be the same way. Now, you can't give that out freely. There is there is a rate of limiting returns.
00:18:02
Speaker
If you're consistently making mistakes, you have to be curious enough to figure out why. But sometimes you have to be willing to give that trust out. That goes from leaders to employees and employees to leaders.
00:18:14
Speaker
But once you break that trust, you can't be upset by the consequences of that action. and And I think that if if we go back macro for a second, you know, we have companies who, I believe some over the past decade, who've been doing the work, um who've who've been doing it and doing it really well.
00:18:41
Speaker
And now we have a situation
00:18:47
Speaker
some by their own choice and and some others I feel like are playing the hand that that they've been dealt, um have publicly pulled back their support of not just DEI in a broad term, but in particular um people with disabilities.
00:19:06
Speaker
And when we think about trust and where we spend our dollar, where we choose to go to work, where we maybe choose to go in and and check that box and do self-identification.
00:19:21
Speaker
What do you think the process is for companies to start rebuilding trust when the the umbrella of companies have now just broken at least five years worth of trust building, let's say since the murder of George Floyd.
00:19:42
Speaker
um All of that psychological safety at a macro level has been undone with the sweep of a pen um in some cases. Do you have any guidance for how you ask employers at ah at a very senior level to look at building trust within their organization?
00:20:01
Speaker
So when I hear about certain companies pulling back their support, that tells me that the support was never there to pull back in the first place.
00:20:15
Speaker
It was not support, it was bandwagoning. it was It was something inauthentic. Unless there was a leadership change inside that that company that everything drastically changed, if the same leaders who did support no longer support,
00:20:30
Speaker
That's a choice. And by making that choice against people, you effectively remove trust within that community. I don't think you've earned the right to rebuild the trust that you consciously broke, because there are many companies who altered paths or pivoted to reword DEI or still focus on culture or people or whatever that looks like.
00:20:54
Speaker
But for the companies that chose to pull away more than needed, I think trust can only be rebuilt with the formation of a new leadership team, which means the exit of the old leadership team.
00:21:08
Speaker
Maybe I'm extreme with that belief, but I don't believe any authenticity can come from a team that acted that way against a community that it supported. it's I don't think that is realistic for people to trust, and I don't think that it could be earned back personally.
00:21:26
Speaker
Now, for those that have pivoted and might have been affected by federal contracts or things like that, we understand that companies do have to survive. Thousands and thousands of people rely on that. But there is a degree of pullback that is different than a complete dropping support of a community.
00:21:43
Speaker
And I think we know the difference and we have to be honest with ourselves. What truly happened? Did they try to protect this community by pivoting or did they drop the community altogether?
00:21:53
Speaker
That's going to determine my level of I believe trust can be rebuilt or I believe trust can't be rebuilt. Yeah, I think I would add on that that to me it is, and I'll be blunt, it's the ultimate form of weakness.
00:22:07
Speaker
We have an incredibly powerful corporate class in in this country and for them to be committed to the work, not committed to the work, whatever it was, but for them to put their brand at such jeopardy and to put their employees at such jeopardy so quickly, to me, more than me not trusting you, is I don't see you as viable from a leadership perspective. I i don't wanna work for weak people. I wanna work for strong, innovative companies that are not just gonna change the way that we do business in XYZ, but are committed to protecting and taking care of the staff that takes care of them every single day.
00:22:57
Speaker
Conditional commitment is not commitment. You know, party based commitment is not commitment. yeah So that goes for both sides, regard regardless of what party you prefer.
00:23:08
Speaker
If you only commit when it's party focused, you're not committed to the idea, you're committed to the party or the ideology, which means there's no true commitment to people there.
00:23:19
Speaker
And if people are secondary, I don't believe you're in a position to lead a culture into the future. I just don't think it's there. That's why I said leadership change would definitely, in my mind, be needed.
00:23:29
Speaker
ah Because once you break that trust with a community by a choice you made that I know you didn't make in haste, you thought about it and you chose that. I just don't see that coming back. you know For other leaders who pivot, I've talked with so many amazing leaders of amazing companies that I speak for on a regular basis where They actively say we've had to pivot in our language. We've had to pivot in the way we do certain things so that we maintain our contracts.
00:23:57
Speaker
But we have still prioritized people and we've made sure that our people are safe. Making sure that your people are safe through an extreme change, whether that be political or economic or whatever that looks like.
00:24:10
Speaker
That to me shows where effort and priority lies, and that is innovative leadership. Because the future of work to me is not AI or technology. That's going to be the standard, not the future.
00:24:22
Speaker
The future of work is the people who prioritize people amongst all of the innovation, tech, and AI. Everyone is going to have AI and already pretty much does.
00:24:32
Speaker
But not everyone is going to prioritize people and have the trust of
Personal Stories of Embracing Disability
00:24:36
Speaker
the people. That to me is the true future of work. skate to where the puck is going, not where it currently is. We are full of great analogies today.
00:24:45
Speaker
i like Are you just reading like Snapple fans? It has its detriment sometimes. and um No, and i I agree. I think that we will see a pull back to humanity. I don't know that, I don't know how quick that elastic is is going to snap, um so to speak, but I do agree that smart companies will be human forward because that's what at least most of us are going to expect and especially the the biggest generation in some time coming into the workforce.
00:25:19
Speaker
right now who are more likely to recognize that they have disabilities, be properly diagnosed, and have been fully empowered since they were born to expect that they will be fully included in whatever space they're in.
00:25:35
Speaker
i think that's a really good point. So let's talk a little bit, kind of like, take me back to your journey a little bit. Because the other thing that i want to talk about is internalized ableism.
00:25:52
Speaker
And you and I chatted about this a little bit before. We haven't talked about this a lot on the on this podcast, and I've just sort of started recently talking about it in some of my speaking opportunities, is that you know internalized ableism can be one of the most powerful barriers to our success sometimes even more so than our physical disability or our mental health disability. And I've just learned how
00:26:24
Speaker
how frequent it is for people who live with mental health disabilities, which is the disability category that I fit in, have sometimes more internalized ableism than people who have physical disabilities or apparent disabilities.
00:26:40
Speaker
um and And not that it's it's a competition, but that really, really struck me is how much our internalized monologue drives what we feel like we can accomplish. And I think you started to to kind of get into that when your first introduction, but I would love to hear more about how that impacted you and how you overcame it to to really live this wildly interesting life.
00:27:09
Speaker
So, ah my My parents, my mom specifically, she was a nurse and she did everything she could to try and shelter me and protect me. We grew up in a really bad area in Florida.
00:27:23
Speaker
And I was always used to very small group of people growing up. But when I went to middle school, couldn't afford any like good schooling. So I went to ah very public middle school in the area I was.
00:27:35
Speaker
And that's when I was exposed to severe like bullying. because of my hand. I never hid my hand before at that time. Specifically, the the turning point for me was there was this girl named Crystal, and she was the prettiest girl in my class, and I i worked up the courage to talk to Crystal.
00:27:52
Speaker
you know I remember walking up to her desk, and I remember exactly where it was in the room, right by the teacher's desk, And my friends started laughing, so I turned around. I'm like, stop, you know, you're going to mess this up.
00:28:03
Speaker
And I turned back around, and she is making fun of my hand with the stapler calling me claw boy in front of the whole class. She humiliated me, and I pretended like it didn't hurt, but it killed me.
00:28:18
Speaker
I shoved my hand in my pocket, and I kept my hand in my pocket for four years after that. until I found a way to wear a glove and that became my identity. I wore a glove over my left hand and long sleeves in South Florida, which is really hot, all the time.
00:28:35
Speaker
I always covered my hand. But I was very outgoing because I felt like I had to prove something. And while everyone was wow, Chris does everything, he plays drums with that. I shoved a drumstick through the finger hole of the glove and I i did like ah dance and I did all of this stuff.
00:28:51
Speaker
but it was all in attempt to prove maybe to other people but more so to myself that i'm that i can do it because i didn't truly believe that i could i believed that i was broken and some of those synonyms for disability like broken or useless like i i lived that and it took years and years and years 17 years of hiding my hand in public to the point where I started my speaking career and I was still hiding my disability on stage speaking about overcoming adversity.
00:29:25
Speaker
I was hiding in plain sight. So I thought that's just how I was going to live my life. And I accepted it. I fully accepted that I was the guy who wore the glove, not the guy who had the disability, the guy who wore the glove, because that sounded better to me.
00:29:38
Speaker
you know And there was one specific moment where I was speaking at a Disney resort for type one diabetics. there was this little girl, we're walking down this hallway. I spent all day with her. She was like 11 years old.
00:29:49
Speaker
She had just been diagnosed. And we're walking down this long hallway. She grabs my hand over the glove. And that was a no-no. Like I never took that glove off. People never talked about it because I had this persona about me. Like, don't ask, you know?
00:30:03
Speaker
Mm-hmm. She grabbed it and she just started swinging it like a little kid would and I froze. And she was like, she looked at me and she's like, it's okay. You don't have to hide around me. And
00:30:17
Speaker
I was like, there's almost a thousand people here to hear me speak. And she's the only one who like actually saw me. And that was one of the moments that I was like, what happens if I, curiosity, what happens if I stopped, what happens if I stopped hiding my hand?
00:30:31
Speaker
What happens if I stopped thinking about myself as broken? What if, what if, what if in the in the right way? And I eventually, you know, took my glove off and made a video about it.
00:30:43
Speaker
The girl I was with at the time, we were together for four years and she edited that video. And that was the first time she saw my hand. Really? First time she saw my hand. We lived together.
00:30:53
Speaker
That was the first ever time she saw my hand was editing that video. i didn't even let her in the room when I was recording the video. That's incredible. I posted that video and woke up to millions of views on YouTube and life just went crazy. But it was cool to see, jumping in the deep end, how many other people lived just like me when I told myself I was on an island by myself.
00:31:16
Speaker
Part of my lack of belonging came from I isolated myself. And we don't like to talk about that because we always say belonging is an external thing, but there is an internal component to everything. So I'm not going to blame, but I am going to say responsibility is shared. It's not pointed.
00:31:32
Speaker
So and part of my responsibility i going to say was saying no one understands. No one gets this. I had thousands and thousands of people who were pretty much emulating exactly what I was going through.
00:31:46
Speaker
And I was like, wow, I am not on an island like I thought I was. A lot of people understand. And I was like, why do a lot of people understand? That's what started my whole like focus on helping people just live better lives and earn quality of life that they deserve, not given by society who says who should and who shouldn't have, you know?
Impact of Internalized Ableism on Success
00:32:09
Speaker
Yeah. I mean... Thank you for sharing that. it's a I would love some time to hear the story in its entirety because it's ah that's it's amazing that those little people sometimes in in very innocuous just behaviors change kind of kind of the course of of a destiny.
00:32:30
Speaker
um that' That's fantastic. Thank you for sharing. um so as we're As we're wrapping up, I think it would be helpful ah in know in a couple of different ways. So we always end up with like, hey, what's one thing that you would tell an employer to change their mind about people with disabilities?
00:32:55
Speaker
But if you would for me,
00:32:59
Speaker
What is one thing that you would tell an employer to help them understand the impact of external ableism being internalized by their employees with disabilities?
00:33:16
Speaker
I think we we think about a lot of hurtful rhetoric being outwardly hurtful or aggressive or obvious. But what we don't understand is ableism is silent.
00:33:29
Speaker
Sometimes ableism is not spoken, but it's... it's not spoken. It's the things you don't do. It's the people you don't include. it's It's the removal of humanity. It's not that you're actively doing something.
00:33:46
Speaker
It's that you're actively not doing something. You're actively not including the person. You're actively not considering people's abilities. And consideration, I think, is one of the best ways to start removing some of this ableism.
00:33:59
Speaker
Ableism is just a forgotten... group of people. It's not that you don't like them or you hate them. It's not rooted in hate most of the time.
00:34:10
Speaker
It's rooted in, ah, you don't matter or, ah, I forgot about them. By constantly being forgotten, you have to put yourself in people's place. Imagine if your partner constantly forgot about you.
00:34:23
Speaker
Imagine if your kid constantly forgot about you. Imagine if your parent constantly forgot about you. Consistently, how would you feel? You would be conditioned to feel less than.
00:34:33
Speaker
You would be conditioned to feel incapable or not valuable. And if you were conditioned to feel those ways, what kind of work output would you do? What kind of team player would you be?
00:34:46
Speaker
You would always hide in the shadows. You would never take risks. You would embody that lack of consideration. Now ask yourself as a leader, do you want your employees to embody a lack of consideration?
00:35:00
Speaker
a good leader or a decent leader would say no. yeah So what does that mean? ah Externalized ableism can be lessened or completely removed by considering or being curious as to how they could accomplish something instead of telling yourself the story that they can't because of the situation you don't understand.
00:35:20
Speaker
curiosity can help reduce or eliminate ableism by helping people feel seen it which creates more psychological safety and that they belong because they feel seen and two learning and exposing yourself to different ways that you might not have been familiar with which now makes that person ah part of the team instead of just someone you put on the bench to check a box Beautiful.
Valuing Ideas Over Personal Stories
00:35:46
Speaker
So outside of this amazing little girl who helped change your destiny, what is one thing someone did for you that helped change your life?
00:35:59
Speaker
I will say
00:36:04
Speaker
the biggest thing for me is someone hiring me the first time i ever got hired to speak. that had nothing to do with my disability.
00:36:17
Speaker
When I first started my speaking career, I always got hired to be the motivational speaker. I always got hired to tell my story because I have a cool prosthetic arm. you know And it was like, okay, that's nice. But I'm like, that's it just didn't feel right.
00:36:29
Speaker
you know I was like, that's cool and all, but like what about my ideas? What about my concepts and my solutions? And I'll never forget, i had a call with a specific company they they were asking me questions. They wanted me to speak on change and I just expected, I was like, okay, so I'm guessing you want me to tell my story about my disability and motivate and inspire. They're like, no.
00:36:52
Speaker
I'm like, that's cool and all, but we really respect your your ideology around change. That was such a simple thing. eight to To the person, to her, she was like, oh yeah, that's we just want that.
00:37:04
Speaker
But to me, I was like, oh my God. I'm actually valued for what I provide and not this like dance monkey dance mentality, you know?
00:37:16
Speaker
And I don't know, that just that meant so much to me to be seen for who I am and not what I have, because my entire life I've always been seen for what I have. Whether that helped to my benefit or my detriment, and I really enjoyed being seen as Chris, not the disabled guy, not the diabetic guy, not the power lifter, not the guy who was in magazines and TV shows and all of these cool things, but just just Chris, that's Chris was really good ideas.
00:37:43
Speaker
Yeah, that me was incredible. um So I just want to thank you for the conversation, um your willingness to be open about your story, and i think share some insights that our audience has not had before.
00:38:00
Speaker
If they want to connect with you, tell us where to find you. So everywhere just at my name, at Chris Rudin. LinkedIn is where I'm most active around disability inclusion, but I'm on all platforms and my website is just chrisrudin.com. So feel free to
Closing Remarks and Contact Information
00:38:14
Speaker
reach out.
00:38:14
Speaker
I do wanna say thank you for doing this and putting this podcast out there because it's something I wish I would have had access to when I was a kid and struggling and ah on that island by myself. It would have been nice to know there's someone like you putting out information to bridge those gaps.
00:38:29
Speaker
Thank you. You guys, another amazing episode of Changing Minds, Changing Lives. Chris, thank you for joining us. You guys have an amazing day. Catch up on some back episodes and let us know who else you want to hear from.
00:38:41
Speaker
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