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CMCL Interview: Holly O'Hern
87 Plays7 months ago
Julie talks with Holly O’Hern of Regime Change (a corporate learning and development company) about courageous leadership, creating safe spaces, trauma-informed workplaces, recent DEI backlash, and more.
Notes:
Holly O’Hern brings 20+ years of experience in leadership development, DEI (diversity equity inclusion), learning and development, team building, and inclusive events and workshops. Specializing in both virtual and in-person training formats, her career has spanned the restaurant industry, the aviation industry, non-profit volunteer leadership, tech, and startups — and her work is informed by her completion of immersive programs on racial equity, trauma-informed workplaces, intentional gathering, collegiate-level DEI certification, and Dr. Brené Brown’s Certified Dare to Lead™ Facilitator program.
Holly believes in supporting and amplifying the voices of people from historically excluded communities and in the importance of all types of people taking responsibility for societal healing. She has been deeply involved in ERG/BRGs, including a talent role that was focused on intersectionality, sponsorship, and corporate oversight and management. She serves in an exec-level role on the Board of Directors for the Chicago Coalition for the Homeless, an organization from which she's learned about racial equity and the systemic impact of advocacy - and was formerly the President of its Associate Board.
Changing Minds and Changing Lives is produced by Disability Solutions, a non-profit consulting firm and leader for global brands in talent acquisition and inclusion for people with disabilities.
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Transcript
Introduction and Interview Scheduling
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome back to the Changing Minds, Changing Lives podcast. My name is Julie Sawash. I am the executive director of Disability Solutions and I am so thankful that you all have joined me again today for an interview I've trying been trying to get on the calendar for what feels like six months. Hopefully it wasn't that long, but it's been a very long time.
Highlighting Popular Episodes
00:00:21
Speaker
Um, so again, if you're new to our series, this is really interviewing the best and the brightest in DEI, diversity, inclusion, and members of our community who are doing amazing work. Um, if you have not checked out some of our previous episodes, I'm hearing a couple of fan favorites. Our Count Grievous who just came out a couple of weeks ago from Edinburgh and Cole Peterson from Colorado who is an amazing young activist. I encourage you to listen to both of those and any other episodes that
Introducing Holly O'Hern
00:00:53
Speaker
catch your eye. We've had some incredible guests over the last six months and today is no different. I am super honored to welcome Holly O'Hern.
00:01:03
Speaker
I'm the founder of Regime Change to the episode today, to Changing Minds, Changing Lives. Holly is a seasoned people leader, a former ERG and BRG leader and sponsor, ah founder of an organization-wide grief network, which I think is incredible work.
00:01:21
Speaker
and a twice founder of DEI-based communities. Her leadership style creates open discussions on topics such as mental health, belonging, dynamics related to power and privilege, as well as the importance of intergenerational relationships in our workplace. Holly, welcome to Changing Minds, Changing Lives.
00:01:40
Speaker
Thank you so much. I'm really glad to be here. I've been looking forward to it as well. Thank you so much for being patient with our team while we, okay, me, while we got scheduled.
Transition from Corporate to Entrepreneurship
00:01:49
Speaker
um So give me give me your couple minute introduction. Holly is a person, Holly is ah a business leader and a little bit more about regime change.
00:01:59
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. um My pronouns are she, her, hers. I'm based in Chicago, Illinois, and I've been practicing my visual introductions, so I'll include that as well too for people who are absorbing the video. um I am a white woman, a Caucasian woman with long red hair. um I'm wearing sort of like a light gray patterned shirt with ruffles, and then I have an office background behind me that has plants and books.
00:02:21
Speaker
And um the plants are real. I've gotten that question before. I've not been a green thumb my whole life, but I did finally figure it out during the pandemic, and I'm thrilled to have thriving plants in my home for the first time in my whole life. um i ah Yeah, i so I work for myself. I'm what the the trendy term is. I'm a solopreneur.
00:02:41
Speaker
I'm a one-woman show here in Chicago and my business is called regime change and ah It started as a side hustle while I was in corporate America I spent 19 years in corporate America and the last couple of years I was doing workshops also on the side um And then about a year and a half ago. I made the move to full-time work for myself um under under the yeah the LLC of regime change. And um I'll tell you a little bit about what I was doing in corporate America, and then I'll tell you a bit more about ah my business. So I spent that 19 years in corporate America was over a variety of industries, company sizes, um really many kinds of dynamics, um restaurants to tech to airlines to just a whole variety of things, small, big, etc.
Roles in Learning, Development, and DEI
00:03:28
Speaker
And the sort of the umbrella of that was I was in learning and development,
00:03:32
Speaker
um and DEI focused roles throughout. um Certainly the term DEI wasn't as present in the earlier days, but just as an example, like um I used to run a management training program in the restaurant world 15 years ago where we had a diversity and inclusion class in it, right? so um and i And I taught that for part of the time as well and learned a lot during that time um that has served me later. um But yeah, learning and development, i I sort of identify as like a trainer, um but also facilitation is just as important a board to me as training is.
00:04:05
Speaker
And ah learning, i love I love to learn, I love to help other people learn, e etc. So yeah, that's that's how um I got my roots. And ah I would say, I'd say everywhere I worked was helpful, but most specifically, the last company I worked at was a tiny startup that was DEI technology focused. um They're called Matheson, they were just absorbed by a bigger company. um And ah I was head of their DEI training for their clients, and it was really a diverse company in all senses of of of the term diverse, which I really like to think about what diverse means in many spectrums, et cetera. And um it was all virtual, which was cool to be part of. And ah i I learned a lot there as much as I was able to help anyone else learn as a learning person. I i always notice when I'm learning too. And that was one of those environments. And I think that was really the final place of like, yeah, I love certain work so much. I really want to be doing this full time and in, in you know, just like,
00:05:04
Speaker
and they have have the freedom of working for yourself where you can choose more and more of what you're doing. so um I call the company regime change because I feel like the clients who are attracted to me though, they're all very diverse as well in many different ways. They all want to be the change that they want to see in in workplaces and related to leadership.
The Interconnection of Courageous Leadership and DEI
00:05:23
Speaker
So to me, we're the collective regime change together is we're all trying to shift how leadership could be in the future. And there are skill sets that go along with that. And some of them are DEI related, some of them are emotionally related, some of them are about mental health and wellness. um there's There's lots of things that could go under that umbrella. but i mean I think of it all as courageous leadership skills. um It's also what brought me to the work of Dr. Brene Brown. I'm certified in her Dare to Lead training program and I studied under her in March 2019 and have done some projects with her team since
00:05:56
Speaker
And um yeah, I think courage skills are underpin a lot of what I do, whether it's Dare to Lead or not Dare to Lead or DEI or not DEI. Like even giving your presentation requires courage, right? So there's so many opportunities for any of us to build our courage skills and like guess I guess I'd just say, especially in DEI, I think it's what's often lacking, is people aren't sure how to handle something that feels uncomfortable, but uncomfortable is really important for what we need to do to be more of supporters and allies to each other to be
00:06:29
Speaker
to create change, all of that stuff requires the skills to sit with discomfort and um that's courageous to me. So ah probably lots more I could have said, but that's a good start. um And yeah, happy to answer any other questions that you're curious about too. So I will go first of all, you do not look like you could have 20 years of experience. Amazing. I was thinking maybe life five, maybe five. I get that a lot.
00:06:55
Speaker
So you're doing something right there. So no, I think it's just, it's so exciting because you have a ah breadth of experience, right? It's not just big corporate, you know, big enterprise work. It's not just startup. It's not just tech. It's really sort of that gamut of your experience allows you to meet companies where they are. And so tell me a little bit. So I heard facilitator, I heard trainer. If,
00:07:25
Speaker
I'm working with you as a as a leader. um What do you come in and do? like kind of Give me some specifics about how you help us with what I would call greater humanity.
Approach to Workshops and Cultural Integration
00:07:38
Speaker
You call courage leadership. I love that statement. It's such a it's a challenge. right it is it It creates that. It's not empathy. It's not pity. It's not this. it's it's We're challenging you to be a more courageous leader. I love that.
00:07:52
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I primarily do it through workshops. um I have done, you know, consulting, I have done coaching, I do that in little pieces, but I would say the bulk of my work is workshops at the moment anyway. um And so usually, you know, I, first of all, I sort of vet the needs that people have and sort of suggest which of my workshops I think could do that best. But then also I talk a lot about them, about what will happen before and what will happen after the workshops.
00:08:21
Speaker
Um, and I, I really, my goal is to work with companies that understand that training and workshops are not a one size fits all solution. They're not a bandaid that they're not a one and done, right? Like they're not like, cool. We did that on the checklist and we're done is it's, it's really a waste of everyone's time. If you're not planning to embed it in some way, um, the people who see the most success with me do multiple workshops with me, like we'll plan out a series and then I'll give them things to do in between that they can embed into their team meeting cultures or into their one-on-one templates, et cetera. And, you know, then we go from there. I would say, yeah, to me it's a lot of, you know, where where is courage needed in whatever their initial request is? So someone might just say like, oh, we need a DEI training or we need we we really want to do Brene Brown's Dare to Lead or we really want to do, um I just did some workshops about grief. And so I've been getting more requests about those lately. um I plan to do more on intergenerational things. so
00:09:18
Speaker
people will kind of come to me with the idea of what they think they need, but then i'll I'll do a lot of digging in the process of us deciding if we want to work together of, you know, you know what's stopping you, right? like
Inclusivity in Workshops
00:09:30
Speaker
what Like what are the barriers we need to talk about? Like what are what are the collective elephants in the room that we need to have in our mind? And I'll even ask about things that might seem unrelated to the training to them, just so I can bring in my full range of empathy skills and like where I have tricks conversations go and how I touch on something that as an, as a quote unquote outsider, I might be able to say differently than someone internally could. Um, and then really just try to make spaces as psychologically safe as possible so that people can rise up with their own brilliance or their own issues or blockades, et cetera, too. Um, and I will add a caveat is I i on purpose, and is this a psychologically safe as possible because we can never guarantee someone else's psychological safety. Like, I can't proclaim this is a safe space because I don't know what's safe for you. But I do try really hard to design in a way that should be as safe as possible, including the questions that I ask. Like, I'll give you an example. um If I want people to share where they're struggling with something, I might say, hey, what is a way some people might struggle with this topic? So that way people can can can name the issues without
00:10:42
Speaker
you know especially early on when they don't know me yet or I don't know what other dynamics are in the room, et cetera. By the room, it could be in person or it could be virtual. I like both formats very much. um So yeah, it's just like things like that. I really take time to think about without knowing what threats or or challenges might be in some spaces that haven't been raised to me, I can still design in a way that um is at least you know as safe as possible.
00:11:10
Speaker
Yeah. And that actually, yeah, that was like, as soon as you started talking about that, I thought, how do you manage to create a space that is as inclusive as possible, but still allows people to interact and engage where they
Challenges in Fostering Inclusive Dialogues
00:11:26
Speaker
are? I feel like something we've been talking a lot about over the past, I don't know, I will say six months is that And I've been very guilty of this as DEI leaders and members of communities. We've sometimes pushed conversations out because we don't want to hear people where they are. And we get very quickly to a blame and and a, um I hate the word cancel, but a cancel place because we're we're not capable yet of having those conversations and
00:12:05
Speaker
it grows out of such frustration that we see progress come and go where we see ourselves never thought of or we see that power structure not changing quickly enough that instead of meeting each other where we are and creating that space, um we just stop talking to each other. Yeah, i I have a lot I want to say to that. want to I want to focus myself, up but this is exactly why you would actually be talking. is and There are a lot of things you just said that I love. um I think it's also our own, like where we're at of what we're not ready to deal with ourselves too. And I think that power and privilege has a lot to do with that. Like, um it's, ah you know, I think a lot about the education, the emotional labor people have given me as someone in the DEI space with a lot of power and privilege given to me by a society, right? and
00:13:03
Speaker
There are times where intellectually I might want someone to call me in when I'm being obtuse about something or I'm being harmful about something and I don't realize it. Right. But that doesn't mean that my body isn't still going to be like on edge when it happens, right? Like, you know, if someone says like, Hey, I don't know if you realize this, but that term you just used is not the most inclusive thing. And actually it actually can cause harm. Intellectually, I want people to do that. But also the threat response, my brain is gonna be like, Oh, no, do they not like me? Do they not think I'm a good DEI person? Will I not get business anymore after that, right? So that's the that's the human experience that all of us have our own versions we're dealing with of, yeah, we may say we want to be part of certain spaces or do certain work. But
00:13:49
Speaker
when those really important moments happen, our brains don't always help us. um And so just navigating that, I think, not only then can it be hard to meet other people where they're at, but we don't even always acknowledge where we're at with certain things. um So it's it's pretty complex. And maybe it gives us empathy why we haven't seen all the progress yet that we'd like to because being human is is a tough thing, right?
00:14:14
Speaker
I certainly have not mastered it yet. um And one thing that we talked about that you do that I was really thankful for um during your training and and not just thankful, but impressed by is that when you are creating these spaces, you're also creating them so that they are physically accessible to people who have certain types of disabilities. Tell me.
00:14:39
Speaker
How that became a thought in your head because so many leaders, it is not a thought in their head until they get that accommodation request.
Commitment to Accessibility and Inclusive Practices
00:14:48
Speaker
They don't build universally. They don't build inclusively out of the gate. And one thing that we're always talking to leaders is how do you put disability diversity at the front, proactive instead of reactive, because reactive space, it or when you have a reactive space, it doesn't feel as safe. If I'm not even thought of and in a design, if I have a certain type of disability or a certain type of of lived experience, talk to me about how you came to that place.
00:15:16
Speaker
Yeah, and I'll say, ah though there's a lot I'm proud of, i'm I'm not perfect, and there's still lots of spaces for me to grow, by the way. But, you know, accessibility is deeply important to me when it comes to training environments. And I would say both both in person and virtually.
00:15:33
Speaker
um And some of it definitely has come to me through participants sharing the accommodations they've needed throughout the years. But what I've noticed is ah it's it's sort of gotten me really excited and lit up every time it happens because it gets me thinking about so many other things that hadn't occurred to me. And what I've learned, I'll give you some examples, what I've learned is when you make something more accessible for one person, it usually ends up helping many other people that you wouldn't even have known about. So accessibility is good for everyone is something I've learned about too from this. So I'll give an example. um
00:16:14
Speaker
ah Let's say I'm an in-person training and I um know that one of my audience members is a person who is blind or has low vision or limited vision, et cetera. um And by the way, if at any point I use a term today that you know a more inclusive term, Julie, please please feel free to call me in real time. i I welcome it. Because though I've done a lot of work on inclusive terms, of especially with people with disabilities, I'm sure there's something I don't know about. So I just wanted to make sure I said that. he But but like let's say I have someone in my audience um who's blind or low vision, et cetera.
00:16:49
Speaker
I might realize, oh, they don't know what this image is that's on my slide that I'm talking about. It helps other people if I talk about the image on my slide, because some people might not realize why I'd picked that image unless I had said more. You know what I mean? like Or it might even ground me in what my what my purpose was for today of how I'm connecting one thing to another.
00:17:13
Speaker
It also encourages me not to make my slides cluttered, which we all know from a learning standpoint, cluttered slides don't help anyone, right? So if I'm thinking about how I design my slide deck in a way that might be benefiting this one individual who made themselves known to me, it's actually got many other good ripple effects, right? So then I'll switch to virtual environment. Like like let's say i I turn on closed captions because i I know there's an attendee who is deaf or has low hearing, etc. That might help many other people too. you know That might help someone who I spoke too quickly, and so seeing the closed caption helped them follow along. Or maybe there's someone whose first language is different than my first language. and so
00:17:56
Speaker
There might be nuance in something I said that's easier to pick up with the closed caption, etc. So that's what I mean is like I get so excited when people ask for an accommodation and I always then just build it into how I run things. um And then finally, I think a lot about language where so many instructions someone might give in a training session of um You know, I'll think about ah draw on the screen. I'd love to do draw on the screen activities, by the way, but I'll i'll add, if you're able, that that might help some people with disability, but that also might help someone who who is struggling with the technology and doesn't know how they would draw on the screen. If using the adding the term if you're able applies to many things it's not just necessarily for that one thing so I mean even today I didn't say watch the recording I said like ingest the recording because I don't know how people are absorbing our recording you know um so
00:18:49
Speaker
I find that that also keeps it top of mind for me all the time. And then I hope it also contributes to an environment where people could say something extra they need. Um, and usually I'll build that into intros of if, you know, if there's any way I can make this more supportive in some way, let me know. Um, but I find that it helps, it helps many people, not just the intended original audience. And often it helps me too. Yeah. No, I love that because what you said is you learned,
00:19:15
Speaker
and then you integrate it, right? So you're willing to make a change because that change, the request was not a it' not meant to put you on the defensive, right? And I think, again, back to your art your point earlier, is anything that we see outside of perfection on ourselves gets our, you know, I feel frustrated, I feel embarrassed, I feel like I should have thought of this before, all of those kind of human emotions that we go through, and instead of getting defensive,
00:19:44
Speaker
you took that information and you ingested it, and then you made adjustments that make you a better facilitator, but also create better spaces for the work that you're trying to accomplish, whether that's DEI or it's a board meeting. it right This is applicable in any situation that you're talking about.
Backlash Against DEI Initiatives
00:20:02
Speaker
um and you know just kind of Speaking of board meetings, um if we kind of switch over just a little bit, over the past few months we've seen I don't want to say unprecedented. I think it's unprecedented for us because as professionals, it's probably the first time we're living through it, but we're seeing and a ah really large public pushback to DEI programs, just in inclusion in general um from far right influencers, from
00:20:39
Speaker
politicians, probably from people in our in our personal lives and in our business lives. and As a result, we're seeing what I will say, quite frankly, is a lot of very big brands chickening out and pulling back from the commitments that they made you know during the after the murder of George Floyd and you know during the rise of LGBTQ rights.
00:21:02
Speaker
and I'm always very blunt, so don't feel like you you have to be as as blunt as I am, but you know what are you hearing and experiencing in your business or even your personal life that is um part of that backlash to DEI? Has it changed how you approach things at all? Yeah. Yeah. I think about it from a number of angles. um One is coming from a place of privilege because, and at least related to this topic, the city I live in, I'm in Chicago, is a fairly liberal city. So I will say locally, I have not noticed much of a shift. I definitely have in some other spaces I'll mention in a moment. But etha you made me think board meeting. um I'm on the board of a nonprofit here in Chicago that's committed to ending homelessness.
00:21:52
Speaker
And um they are very focused on racial equity, and I've been delighted to see that not change. In fact, I would say as much of my DEI education over the years has come from being involved with that nonprofit as as much as it has from my day job. um So I guess I'll just say, I'm sure there are still spaces in Chicago where things have shifted in an unfortunate way, but I would say mostly I've been encouraged to see things, and especially, yeah, in nonprofit world, et cetera, um locally,
00:22:20
Speaker
um ah at least still be very aware of how important DEI is, which is good to see. Yeah, I mean, the the last company I worked for, they they struggled a lot with navigating that because they DEI was their mission. And I think what's particularly frustrating about it is there there may be people who, if if they weren't hearing certain angles, they actually probably would be agreeing with the concept of it, right? So it's this idea of like,
00:22:51
Speaker
you know, where is the miseducation? And where might people be being be hearing a scarcity mindset, which is real, because as humans we worry about things, right? But be missing what the benefits are for everyone. um Similar to how I was talking about accessibility, there are many benefits if we make our systems more equitable. That helps and helps everybody. um And just thinking about, like,
00:23:17
Speaker
All of that, like it mostly I just am sad about how that has shifted. But I do think it it opens up a realm of us being more direct in how we talk about things, acknowledging angles maybe we were skipping over before. um And then also thinking about how to meet people where they're at related to that. like maybe um i i don't I don't love spaces that are arbitrarily changing the language around DEI.
00:23:44
Speaker
um because there have been some pretty public things recently of people dropping equity or whatever the case may be. Dropping equity, I don't know who that was, yeah. the yeah i What's really unfortunate is I spoke at a big conference that I was really proud of and shortly after that happened and that that was a bummer. um but But I do think that there are some spaces where people might rename something in it in an an authentic way, where if we're talking about, like I mean, I think even talking about courage could be about DEI, right? like i think I think there's ways you can come at something that's still authentic.
00:24:21
Speaker
and might might be a way that people could think a little bit differently. And then as you build the trust, connect it to, and this is what what my experience of DEI is, right? So it's not... it's like it's not It's sort of phased. I mean, any of us might phase anything we do in the world, right, is like, you know, we might share more with each other over time as we get to know and trust each other. I think that can be how DEI works is, you know, maybe we start from a leadership standpoint of what our leadership skills, maybe we start about like culture or all of that, but all of that actually does have DEI baked right into it. And so
00:25:00
Speaker
um I'm open to creativity on it, and I'm open to see how things evolve, but I i think it's actually helping no one to to stay away from these topics, and I think it's keeping the world more disconnected when actually we we learn that people thrive most in connection, and connection can be uncomfortable. Yeah, no, it absolutely isn't. I think the sort of whiplash is what I talk about a lot is that we
00:25:30
Speaker
have companies who are not necessarily doing the work yet, because all the things that you talked about, that we talk about at Disability Solutions is doing the work, right? It's how do we change culture? How do we change processes? How do we create leaders that understand that being a great leader helps underrepresented populations? Being an empathetic leader helps underrepresented populations. It helps your business to be more successful And then when companies sort of go, oh my gosh, I have to make a public statement. I have to make a public stance. When they're not actually yet engaged in the work as who they are as as an organization, as a culture, as a brand, um and then they pull back from that, it creates more damage to their brand than saying nothing at all over the entirety of it. And you know we really encourage companies to be true to who they are.
00:26:30
Speaker
be willing to make changes, be willing to grow and adjust, but don't put out statements or don't build you know a DEI presence on your corporate career site if you're not willing and you're not able to do the work. Like we have to be honest with ourselves as corporate leaders about when we should be doing that. And and those are you know kind of a lot of the conversations that we've been having lately, but I've also wanna kind of acknowledge that it does cause trauma may be a strong word, but it does cause grief. It does cause trauma. It does cause fear and and uncertainty in populations who feel like their voices are being heard and all of the sudden um brands are pulling back from them. And something that caught my attention on your your site was trauma-informed workplaces as an area you do facilitation. I have no idea what that means, um but as someone who's
00:27:26
Speaker
you you know, done counseling, done therapy as a part of best practices of of my life. um've I've heard that word trauma a lot, but I've never heard it as an informed workplace.
Creating Trauma-Informed Workplaces
00:27:38
Speaker
me Yeah. I, um, I, I, I don't currently have any programs that are specific about that. It's, it's part of what I bring in the work that I do. It's like, it's part of the foundation and it's part of my background is I went through a nine month trauma informed program here in Chicago.
00:27:56
Speaker
um And it's it's changed a lot of how I operate, um similar to some other ways I've talked about other things here today. so And I think you're you're spot on to connect it the way that you have as well. I guess one thing I'll mention from what you said before is I think when companies, I'm gonna use the word performative, are performative and in what they put out there without doing the work, um employees can tell, right? like employees feel the inauthenticity and they feel the mismatch in behaviors towards them versus what they're hearing or seeing on platforms, etc. And um I think that can be a collective trauma because it might also reinforce things that have been happening someone's whole life, right, of saying one thing, doing another, or not feeling seen or heard. And also,
00:28:44
Speaker
We could go on a whole rabbit hole of why companies don't don't listen to their people more, especially like quote unquote lower level people. Like yeah those are some of the most important voices I think in a company and and why more companies don't design more forms where people can really say real things and pivot and be listened to, et cetera.
00:29:02
Speaker
is beyond me. um ah Like I said, a lot of tangency could probably go on there. But yeah, for me, so what I learned, so I went through, the program was through a an organization called the Chicago Resiliency Network, and they were backed by a neuroscience company called Kintla. I think really highly about those spaces. And what they've learned is that people who have experienced um the least safety in our society, you know who who aren't on on the spectrums of power and privilege that um maybe you and I are, for example, not to say I know your whole life, but um ah just thinking about even our roles and all that, right? like People who have experienced more adversity also have experienced more trauma.
00:29:50
Speaker
And what we know about trauma from neuroscience for any of us, and I've had life traumas as well too, is um you you feel less safe in some environments than someone else might. And our threat response can be higher. um They talk, in fact, maybe you've even heard the term ACE score where um adverse childhood experiences, like based on trauma in childhood, there's there anyway, a lot of things people could look into. I'm not necessarily the experts on these things, but what we've learned is the more trauma someone's experienced, the higher their threat response is. And if you don't understand that and how you're running a culture,
00:30:25
Speaker
You might be creating more spaces where people feel unsafe than you realize. And you don't need to know everyone's life story to fix that. You just need to design your workplace in a way where there are more ways where people can regulate their nervous systems individually and together. And there are lots of small, easy ways to do that. um And then it impacts things like physical safety in the workplace as well too. It impacts everything. And so I thought it was just such a cool angle that this program was doing that. I i was like, I made the business case to go to it. I got some other people to go to it. And to me, I think a lot about,
00:31:03
Speaker
just it it just I think it just ties to that concept of safety is anything could be tricky for anyone, any topic that we might talk about. So if I go into that topic intentionally and if I am you know thinking about how I phrase things and if I'm thinking about how I you know own my own struggle in it where people know it's okay that they're not doing this perfectly, et cetera,
00:31:25
Speaker
more things can rise to the top and more people can actually bring their brilliance to the table as opposed to assessing threat and safety. I'm probably not saying all of that as great as I could, but I think there's just so much to unlock there. um And ah I think that trauma and DEI can go hand in hand.
00:31:43
Speaker
yeah Yeah, no, i I mean, thank you for just taking a few minutes to give us an overview because it is a new term for me. And I think it's just so relevant to meeting our staff, our employees, our people, right, where they are. And it doesn't have to be all fluffy feeling and therapy feeling, right, to just understand that these are the words that we use.
00:32:10
Speaker
And this is how it's impactful. This is the environment that we create and this is how it's impactful. um And I think we, you know, one of the DEI backlashes is we get caught in a term um and and then we feel fear of that term, right? Well, oh my God, people have trauma. Okay, everyone has trauma, you know? And it it just, you even feel how that like can impact people. But what you've done is taken something that we know from psychology that is is a true,
00:32:39
Speaker
is Is true for so many people um and then you made it easier to understand and it's it creates a business impact right when we create that kind of environment where we're thoughtful about everyone's Lived experience without a knowing it. I think that's something important that you you said we don't have to know everyone's lived experiences to build thoughtfully and inclusively um and we don't have to Be fearful. We need to just be thoughtful and be willing to say, hey, I mucked it up. I'll do better next time. Thank you for allowing me to grow.
00:33:17
Speaker
um By giving me that information. I think that's just it's I will be diving more in in more excuse me to to trauma informed workplaces So as we are wrapping up we always in the show with two questions And I never tell anyone in advance and I always apologize, but I don't really mean it I just want to kind of put you on the spot for a minute um is Tell me one thing that you would tell a ah CEO a corporate leader a TA leader an HR leader that would help change their minds about the value that diverse employees bring to their workplace.
Involving ERGs and BRGs in Business Decisions
00:33:56
Speaker
e
00:34:01
Speaker
i and I would say if they have ERGs, BRGs, whatever they would call it in their org, is to involve them more in big business decisions and then they will see.
00:34:15
Speaker
because like, or that it it'll unfold because ah not enough companies or are using their groups in that way, or I should say leveraging their groups in that way. And there can be all these customer insights and insights that are got get unlocked. There can be all of these um other ripple effects that come along too. And so that one, i they'd have to do it to see the full value in what that advice would be, but it would be a game changer.
00:34:44
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, I love that. And I've seen companies that do that really well and you're a hundred percent right, but I've never said it that way before. So second question, what is something that someone has done for you to change your life? Hmm.
00:35:06
Speaker
I, There are a bunch. That's actually why I'm pausing. is I'm like, what I'm actually feeling really grateful because I can think of a few right now. um
00:35:19
Speaker
I would say ah supporting me when I've been in deep times of grief. um And I think grief is another term we could spend a lot of time on. um But that idea of how you show up for people when they're going through something really hard Some people might keep work and personal life separate, but there are times where you those things can't be separate because of how big the thing is. And um i've i've I've had a couple of managers who've really shown up for me even even more than I expected them to, and it made all the difference in in my time working with them. Yeah. So I would love to have you back on the show to just do a grief
00:36:02
Speaker
episode. would love that too yeah One of the most impactful podcasts I've ever done was with a guy in our industry named Tim Sackett. And we had a conversation with him about grief just after his mother passed. And it impacted me um dramatically in the way that I think about it. But still, it was probably four years ago, I still have people coming to me and saying like, I never thought about our grief policies. I never thought about how to help people as they are coming back to work.
00:36:31
Speaker
impacted by whatever loss it is that they're experiencing and this caused me to think about it. So I think that is such an incredible conversation and we'll definitely, definitely do that.
Connecting with Holly O'Hern
00:36:43
Speaker
um So if people want to find you, Holly, where do they find you? All the places. Yeah, I'd say the big two are my website and LinkedIn at the moment. So website is www.regimechange.co. o And then LinkedIn, probably I can't say my whole handle, but I'm sure we can just link it. like it It's Holly O'Hearn. For now, those those are my two two main spots. yeah So Holly O'Hearn at LinkedIn and regimechange.co.
00:37:15
Speaker
Correct. Yeah. Awesome. All right. Thank you so much. This has been such a an energetic conversation and time we life yeah I know, I know, I know. So thank you, Holly, you guys. Thank you so much for joining us. Again, please like, share, subscribe, follow, whatever you do on wherever you get your podcasts or on YouTube, check out our other episodes. And if you have any questions or any concerns, let me know. Otherwise, keep changing your minds and changing lives. See you next time.