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Breaking the Charity Mindset: Disability, Authentic Branding & Inclusive Employment with Davina Douthard
53 Plays2 months ago
In this episode of Changing Minds & Changing Lives, host Julie Sowash sits down with Davina Douthard—founder of Polishing the Professional and creator of The Able Show—to challenge one of the most persistent barriers in disability employment: the charity mindset.
Drawing on more than 30 years of experience in image management, workforce development, and inclusive entertainment, Davina shares powerful insights on authentic personal branding, transferable skills, and why disability inclusion must move beyond quotas and good intentions. Together, Julie and Davina explore how job seekers with disabilities can build careers rooted in confidence and capability—and how employers can create inclusive brands without reinforcing harmful stereotypes.
This conversation is a must‑listen for disabled professionals, employers, and advocates committed to building workplaces that value contribution over charity.
Show Notes:
Key Takeaways
- Disability inclusion is not about favors—it’s about filling real business needs
- Quotas and check-the-box hiring can unintentionally reinforce exclusion
- Authentic branding empowers disabled professionals to lead with their strengths
- Employers don’t need perfection—just a willingness to learn and listen
- True inclusion happens when we focus on what people can do, not what they can’t
Changing Minds & Changing Lives is produced by Disability Solutions, a nonprofit consulting firm and job board that partners with global brands to drive inclusive hiring and disability-inclusive talent strategies.
About the Guest
Davina Douthard is a nationally recognized leader in image management, disability employment advocacy, and inclusive media. She is the founder of Polishing the Professional, a full‑service career center supporting disabled and non‑disabled job seekers, and the creator and executive producer of The Able Show, a groundbreaking series where people with disabilities fill the majority of on‑ and off‑camera roles.
About the Host
Julie Sowash is a strategic advisor, disability inclusion leader, and co‑founder of Disability Solutions. She is the CEO of Catch 22 Group and is the Job Board Doctor.
Resources & Mentions
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Season 3
00:00:06
Speaker
Welcome back to the Changing Minds, Changing Lives podcast. My name is Julie Sowash, your host and strategic advisor and co-founder of Disability Solutions. We launched season three of the podcast, unbelievably, with the founders of DateAbility, Alexa and Jacqueline Child.
00:00:27
Speaker
These sisters are a vibrant and powerful example of the power of entrepreneurship and innovation in our community, and they are making positive impact every single day.
00:00:39
Speaker
So unsponsored pitch, if you're on the market, You're single. Check out Datability, which is the dating app for disabled singles. You can also listen to Alex and Jacqueline's conversation about the promise and opportunity of building accessible tech on the Disability at Work podcast, which is hosted by none other than our very own Director of Marketing for Disability Solutions, Ashley Sims.
Image Management and Disability Advocacy
00:01:06
Speaker
Today, we have a topic that, from my perspective, we do not focus on enough as a community, image and brand.
00:01:19
Speaker
And I am joined by one of the leaders in this conversation and work, Davina Dutharn, Davina is a 30-year-plus veteran in image management, disability employment advocacy, inclusive entertainment. She has an extensive background in PR, brand development, and workforce training. So she really brings a unique perspective to the conversation that we're having today.
Background and Early Experiences of Davina Dutharn
00:01:45
Speaker
She's the founder of policy Polishing the Professional, a full-service career center supporting both disabled and non-disabled job seekers, and the creator and executive producer of The Able Show, a groundbreaking production where people with disabilities fill the majority of both on- and off-camera roles. And I'm sure I did not even start to do her justice, but Davina, welcome to Changing Minds, Changing Lives. Tell us a little bit more about you.
00:02:15
Speaker
First of all, thank you for having me and you did me cleaning justice. What was your question again? um Yeah. Did I do you justice? And tell me about you. Yes. Oh, yeah. So, yeah, basically, I mean, you sort of racked it up in a nutshell. um I sort of been ah sort of was thrust into image and branding as a child. So it's been a part of my life um being focused on how we present ourselves. And that started first as a passion. I think I was just passionate about and enamored by for the most part of it, old Hollywood. When I would watch how artists would
00:02:52
Speaker
you know, how they manage themselves. We were very cautious of the things that we say and how we treated at one another, least on camera it was, right? And so um that led, my mother ended up, um I grew up in Inglewood and ah my mother put us in this neighborhood program, which was called Itty Bitty City.
00:03:14
Speaker
And it was a personal development and ah modeling program, sort of like Barbizon, But just a community program, right? And um in that program, I learned a lot about etiquette and presentation, stage presence and all of those things. And it sort of stuck with me. I started teaching when I was 16, teaching other people to do the very same thing or learn the same things that I have. And it's and it sort of stuck with me.
00:03:44
Speaker
That's amazing. So what, what brought on the disability part of your passion?
Inspiration from Family and Advocacy Journey
00:03:51
Speaker
So that was another personal connection. I have an older brother, Rayvon Dessard, who is, has a developmental disability. He wasn't born with this disability, but there was an incident in his childhood that created a ah intellectual disability.
00:04:08
Speaker
And um he, he, So i've when he was coming of age, he was always very, what's the word? i Ambitious.
00:04:19
Speaker
And so although um he you know he wanted to work and he wanted to get jobs, he always needed help with it. And I, his little sister, um who he's very cool, we were very close with one another, I still help him to this day, um he would have to fill out applications and I would help him fill out applications, albeit it probably still looked a little immature, maybe my writing, I don't know.
00:04:45
Speaker
um But um it was, at any rate, you know, more professional than his. So that's how that started. That's amazing. um And I mean, that really does blend together these two worlds so perfectly. and today I kind of want to take the conversation on two tracks.
Impact of Charity Mindset on Disability Community
00:05:05
Speaker
Sure.
00:05:06
Speaker
But before we do that, something that you say and that I say that is so near and dear to both of our hearts is that we are, as a community, we are hindered by the charity mindset.
00:05:23
Speaker
And oh yeah when I talk about the charity mindset, a lot of times I've talked about it from a business perspective. But what I've been talking about it more recently even is is that it's also pervasive in our own community and the way that we think about ourselves and each other. So tell me a little bit about how from either side of the spectrum, employer or or professional, how have you tackled um the charity mindset?
00:05:53
Speaker
So um let me first tell you how my two of my experiences with that charity mindset and how it prevented um those two things from developing and growing. Right.
00:06:06
Speaker
And then I can explain and then you'll understand what i'm what i mean when I say what going to say. is that um So back in maybe 1998, I was involved in the Department of Rehabilitation program. It was Diversity Employment Shores.
00:06:21
Speaker
And I served on, for the most part of it, the business development team, right? And we I was the only one in there for a while that was from the profit world, because before I got into the disability world, I was in the for profit world and still am. But um that was my background. That was my experience. And when we sat in the meetings,
00:06:47
Speaker
All of the conversation was about how can we get someone to come do this for us? Like um we needed to give this thing away free um in order to get important people in the room.
00:07:02
Speaker
And I also, this is probably in 2014, I was awarded a a different contract under the Department of Rehabilitation, and the contract was for training. My job placement skills had been very successful. um I helped Easter Seals, which was struggling at the time that I started working with them. They had never made a placement in, I think, the 30 years they had a contract. um Because it was just they just didn't really get it. If they did, maybe it was one or two places. I don't know. I root from my memory was none.
00:07:37
Speaker
And um we became one of the best um job placement agencies in at least in the Los Angeles area that I know for sure. So we did very well.
00:07:48
Speaker
um But I received this contract from Department of Rehabilitation to travel the state of California and show other people how to do job placement. And one of the resounding things that came up over and over and over again was, how do we get the employers to hire our people with disabilities? And there was that question again, like the devaluing of the of ourselves and of the people and what we bring to the table. And my lesson in there, and one of the things that I explained to the two um the attendees was, and also in diversity employment source, there was another guy who came in later on, Bill, what was Bill's last name?
00:08:32
Speaker
He was um the vice president president of H.B. Drollinger Company. So he came from a for proper one. and He was very aggressive with it. But when we came to that mindset, we went from a a small community,
00:08:46
Speaker
ah ah ah job fair to maybe like having 20 people or so show up to an annual job fair that we had like 5,000 people coming through that job fair in a short period of time.
00:09:01
Speaker
And the same thing with the attendees for the training
00:09:08
Speaker
One of the things that I had to explain to them is that the first thing you have to understand is you're not asking the employer for anything free. you're Actually, you're helping them. You're helping them to fill the role that they need to fill.
00:09:19
Speaker
And so be it it has it happens to be someone with a disability. If you're not putting the client in a position into a job that they're not capable of doing, there's no devaluing needed, right?
00:09:33
Speaker
you You're not asking, I'm not asking to you to hire someone or get someone a job who has no astronaut skills to be an astronaut. You don't have, I'm not asking someone that doesn't have any graphic design skills not to be a graphic designer.
00:09:49
Speaker
If they know, if they're a whiz at graphic design, but perhaps they have autism and so they don't have the sin social interaction skills perhaps that they need in order. that we would assume they need to work, you're not asking for a favor. You're helping them to fill a role that they need to fill. And by chance, you happen to have someone who can do it.
00:10:10
Speaker
So if you focus on what someone actually can do and move from that perspective, then you'll find that you're not asking for charity anymore. You're not coming from a charity mindset. You're coming from, i hear it is. I have something to offer and here's what I have to offer.
00:10:27
Speaker
That's just one of the best examples that I've heard from delivered from our side of the table is that we had to change first our mindset about what our capabilities were and what we were bringing to the table versus what we were. requesting. So please go ahead. That was that was outstanding. No, and I also think, you know, I think people make that. No, don't get me wrong, because job placement is not easy. It's very competitive. So and I think it always baffles me when I get in front of someone who is telling other job placement agencies how to make placement and they've never done a placement before in their life. I'm like,
00:11:09
Speaker
You're the last person who needs to speak on this topic. And you have that rampantly within the regional center systems and the Department of Rehabilitation systems. And it makes it makes doing this job very difficult.
00:11:21
Speaker
But what I also do say is that. um Think about it. I think people make placements so difficult, right? It's not rocket science.
00:11:35
Speaker
Think about it from your own perspective. When you go out looking for a job, do you go looking for the CEO of a company position if you haven't had any skills The lead up to
Job Placement Strategies for Disabled Individuals
00:11:48
Speaker
that? No.
00:11:49
Speaker
If you know this is your first job, you think about the things that you like to do. Would you want to work in in fast food or retail or go go into a corporate environment depending on what background skills you have? You want warehouse if you like picking up, lifting things?
00:12:06
Speaker
It's the same thing you're goingnna you do for your clients. And so if you're focusing in on what they can actually do, what their skill set is and what they will be able to do and learn on a job, then you're not asking for you're not asking any favors. You're bringing someone to the table who can do the job that they have listed.
00:12:29
Speaker
Yeah. have you encountered, and and I say this just from personal experience, individuals that you're helping through job placement, how do you help them understand where their skills fit?
00:12:44
Speaker
versus sometimes we get into that um person-centered planning and and the person wants to be an astronaut. I would love to be an astronaut. Actually, not. I'm terrified of heights. But if I did want to be an astronaut, I am not at all qualified to do that. um How do you have those conversations that help um the job seeker also understand that everyone has a point of entry um and it doesn't have to be the last place on our our career journey?
00:13:14
Speaker
So that is really how I start with everything. I first ask my clients, what is it you want to do? And sometimes they don't know, right?
00:13:27
Speaker
um And sometimes they know exactly what they wanted you. And then i and i approach life this way as well as then I back into it. Like I start with the end in mind.
00:13:39
Speaker
And then start from where it is I need to, where I am, where I'm at at that point. And I do the same things with my clients. um I'll occasionally have a client who comes in within Like one time I had a young man who was very, very bright, um with had autism.
00:13:58
Speaker
And his when his when they first contacted me, he um his his mother was very proud of the fact that he memorized the maps very well and wondered how he could get a position And, you know, at a company by remembering where things were in the city. And it just, unfortunately, that just was not, yeah, GPS, you know, it you you had mapping systems already going. So it wasn't really um a, it was a unique skill, but it wasn't really transferable in the way that she thought.
00:14:43
Speaker
And so um we instead focused on his beautiful memory and put him in a position where um they needed someone who could remember things quite well. And it wasn't doing we maps, but it was remembering locations, remembering where to travel, remembering where to go, remembering...
00:15:06
Speaker
And on a big, um we ended up getting him hired at Universal Studios as a um character escort, right? And that big, if you've ever been a Universal City itself or Universal Studios, is dinormous. And I can't remember where everything is, even if I'm there for five days in a row.
00:15:27
Speaker
It's a lot. But he was very good about remembering everything. where he had to be, where every stopping point was. It was it was good. So um this is so many years ago. But it's not so much just saying, here, I've got this great skill and I want to be an astronaut with it.
00:15:46
Speaker
It's really saying, okay, let's take this skill and figure out where it transfers to in the thousands of job titles that exist, right? so and that That sounds like a pretty good job to land, too. Oh, yeah. well that was work city right That was probably one of the funnest jobs I ever job coached at. That was my first placement was a client working at Universal Studios and she was an escort, a different young lady, but character escort. We had fun.
00:16:21
Speaker
We had so much fun. That sounds like a blast. yeah um And I think, I mean, thank you for taking the time to kind of explain and exemplify charity mindset and how to shift um desires to transferable skills that get to the job. I think that's so critical. And I want to come back to the job seeker as we wrap up, but I also want to talk about employers. um Are there some kind of common mistakes that you've seen from well-meaning
00:16:56
Speaker
um employers when they're trying to create a more inclusive brand um in their recruitment materials or you know their public-facing campaigns that that really missed the mark.
00:17:11
Speaker
Yes, um I think too, there's a lot of stereotypes in terms of what someone with a disability looks like. So we'll always, um a lot of times when I see um literature or um ah anything advertising someone with a disability, it usually has someone, and nothing wrong with this, because certainly present everyone. But I think they get in the mindset of someone either without denture. That's what I see most of the time.
00:17:43
Speaker
And then also when I go to the employer and we're having a conversation and I bring a client that has an invisible disability, right? Something you can't really see or someone are really um with with autism but is not as a parent.
00:17:58
Speaker
um They'll ask me questions like, well, what's wrong with him?
Creating Inclusive Workplaces
00:18:03
Speaker
And I go, okay, he can't ask that question. you're Right. And certainly I can't even tell you what his disability is unless he unless he he or she gives me the authority to say that, you know, unless I ask for a reasonable accommodation, then perhaps I can, then I have to explain what we need a reasonable accommodation for. But um um I also, one thing that sticks out in my mind, and I think I've told this story so many times, was this was probably around 2000, late to ah early like or something. And I had i was working with a one of the grocery stores here. I really, when I first started placing, I had made the the grocery stores as my thing. I started that whole thing in Los Angeles with clients getting jobs in grocery stores. And so, so but now it's a popular thing. So everyone does it.
00:18:59
Speaker
But I had started working with a company that very open to inclusivity. And so they had came up with the, ah they created a goal or established a goal that said, we want to have at least two people with disabilities in each store. Right. one time I went to, um I didn't present myself as working with this company. I went in like a regular person, job developer, trying to help a client find land a job. We had filled out an implication application. had landed an interview.
00:19:30
Speaker
And so we went in to speak to um the hiring manager. And um the guy said to me, he says, oh we already met our quota. We already had two people.
00:19:46
Speaker
We already have two disabled people to to work. And i I just said, okay, hang on, Navina. This is a teaching moment for me, right? Like, I don't want to bash this guy because they don't you don't know what you don't know until you know it, right? And so I said, and this is a um Hispanic guy, and um I think he was Mexican, but I don't remember that far back, but i think he was Mexican.
00:20:13
Speaker
And I said to him, I said, imagine if I said we already have enough Mexican in the store or enough blacks in the store or enough white people or enough women in the store.
00:20:27
Speaker
And he immediately got it. But i ah in that he did I don't even think he he didn't mean harm. He really didn't. He was just um he was just listening to his you know, they had to make a quota. And I think they were trying to make they met their quota and they were happy about it. Right.
00:20:46
Speaker
But he didn't think anything was wrong with saying that. And he was so nervous. He thought we were going to sue him and file a claim. And I was like, that's not what I'm here for. I'm trying to create an opportunity for someone to work. And so I would rather fix an issue than to um create another problem that prevents someone else from getting a job. So let's just move forward. I just want to teach you like what that sounds like.
00:21:12
Speaker
Read it back to you. what you You know? Yeah. So. Yes. Yeah. Oh my. and As soon as you got about, as soon as you got to the two, the two person purse store, i was like, Oh, I know where this is going because I, I've, we have experienced so, so many similar conversations of like, Hey, we did it.
00:21:31
Speaker
Good job. Thanks. Come back when we get rid of one of them. you know exactly thing And, and, and I think what, and hear something that I think that I would love to do And I set out to do it years ago and just never really,
00:21:47
Speaker
done enough of it, but really having conversations and speaking with employers on a regular basis about inclusion, oh especially right now in this climate. It's just terrible. But um um I just think people, i don't think they're really trying to be insensitive or um or to discriminate for the most part. There are some that are that way.
00:22:12
Speaker
And um um I deal with that differently. But um I just think people just don't understand until you paint it to them in a way that they need to hear it.
00:22:26
Speaker
Yeah. And then they realize like, oh I didn't realize I was saying that. I didn't mean it that way. um So. So, yeah.
00:22:37
Speaker
Mm hmm. Yeah. And I mean, I think it's, you're, you're so spot on into that.
00:22:46
Speaker
There is a sensitivity. would say this, right. A sensitivity around how we talk about women, people of color, ah LGBTQ individuals that hasn't been embedded our brains, um,
00:23:05
Speaker
in the same way that we talk about disability. And it gives us a lot more teaching opportunities, let's call it that. Oh, it does, a lot. In which people feel they can speak very freely. And it's good when they do. mean, I always say, if you say something in front of me, I'm not easily offended and I'm not gonna yell at you. Like, we'll figure it out together. I think that's just another really, really great example. And as we kind of think about the person with a disability, let's say young professional with a disability, how do you, how can that person approach
00:23:49
Speaker
building their professional and personal brand in a way that feels very authentic.
Authenticity in Personal Branding
00:23:55
Speaker
um you know do Rather than feeling like their disability has to define or overshadow the expertise or their career that they're building, you know how does that that balance come into play?
00:24:09
Speaker
So i i am I am so tied into authenticity. That is my thing. If you asked me for two words that resonate with me, one would be equality and the other would be authenticity.
00:24:23
Speaker
And even with my clients that I work with in the entertainment industry, um doing branding and public relations and things like that, um I always start from a position of authenticity. there There's something special that every single one of us bring to the table.
00:24:42
Speaker
And I think very few of us get the opportunity to tap into that uniqueness because we're all trying to fit into what's cool, what's, you know, what this celebrity is doing, what this popular person is doing, what all the kids in school are doing, right?
00:24:59
Speaker
Instead of standing on their own uniqueness. Um, so I approach that with anyone that I'm speaking to. I, I, I think to the, I don't want to say it the wrong way, but I'm just going to say it. I honestly detest, detest fakeness. I really do not like someone trying to be something that they're not.
00:25:20
Speaker
And when it even the, the fake love you stuff, the fake, Oh, Hollywood dub driving me insane. So, you know, I am just I am who I am. And not to say that um there aren't things that we don't need to polish about ourselves. We all do. um But I like when people come from a position of authenticity. So I approach that with all of our, you know, with all of my clients. Like I really hone into what it is that they really want to do.
00:25:52
Speaker
And we start with that. And we focus on that. I have a client right now. I have a few of them. But um um Antonio, the one who's now learning public relations that booked this podcast, um he also booked this on KTLA and we got in the LA. No, he's been doing a bang up job. Nice. But I have another client who has has, I'm sure he'll be fine me talking about it, but he does, um he had a stuttering issue really bad when he first started working with us.
00:26:25
Speaker
And it's a part of his disability. It's one of his disabilities. And when we're in our production meetings, it first started with he would talk and it would take a long time for him to get a point across that would have taken two seconds it might have taken him three or four minutes but what I implemented from the very beginning was allowing him to finish saying what he's saying and the entire room it would be
00:26:56
Speaker
maybe 20, 30 people in the room, and that we would wait until he finished. And now he is able to finish his thoughts and articulate in one or two seconds like everyone else says.
00:27:12
Speaker
Because I think having an issue with stuttering or and and some sort of speech impediment prevent, you know, in high school, he was teased about it. And so he always clammed up and no one gave him the free, ah the space to be able to just speak in his own terms and to get comfortable with themselves.
00:27:34
Speaker
Now you can't get him to stop talking, right? And that's okay. But that's what we do. Like, I want everyone to be authentically themselves. And if we have to wait a few minutes, then we just have to wait a few minutes.
00:27:46
Speaker
That's it. um If um my brother is a DJ and that's what he loves to do. So that's what I always focus on. Everything that I focus on him, I bought his DJ equipment years ago, even when he first told me he wanted to be a DV, I didn't even know he knew how to DJ that well, right?
00:28:05
Speaker
I just, okay, said this is a dream of his and I'm going to help him do it. And then I find out later on, oh he's DJing parties at LA Valley College.
00:28:16
Speaker
People at the regional center were hiring him for events, parties, housing. i was like, what? I didn't know he was that good. He is pretty good. And so that's what, you know, that's that's how I approach authenticity. I don't worry about what you can't do. I only want to focus on what you want to do and what you can do now. We can continue to build on that scale skill.
00:28:40
Speaker
I love that. I think that's such a great note to wrap up on, right? Move away from fake. Move to authenticity and focus on what you can do. And and I love – I live in Europe now. And so I'm learning this power of um letting people talk and letting them be whereas ah as Americans, we're always in a hurry to finish everything. And I think what you just explained with your – The individual with ah a speech impediment is so it it is a very European mindset. And just like embracing that, like, we're just going to wait till everyone's done.
00:29:20
Speaker
Your whole body chemistry changes and how did you engage with other people changes. And it's empowering to the individual that you're speaking with or just yourself because you take that breath. I think that's so beautiful. um So tell me and tell our listeners if they want to connect with you.
00:29:40
Speaker
How do they find you? Where do they watch you? what ah How do we learn more?
Connecting with Davina and The Able Show
00:29:45
Speaker
Yeah, so um to connect with me, you can could go to polishingtheprofessionals.com. You'll see a link there to contact us, um as well as for The Able Show, which is theableshow.com. You can watch our episodes. We have about 80 episodes, two seasons.
00:30:01
Speaker
um on um We're currently on YouTube. We are actually heading into our third season, and we are reformatting things a little bit, so we'll end up on our own site, all of our You can actually get our episodes on our site as well, but a lot of people watch YouTube, so that's fine as well.
00:30:19
Speaker
um But um those are the two best ways to reach us. ah We're always interested in interviewing. We interview a lot of celebrities here in Hollywood, but we also are interested in interviewing um very special people that are in the disability space. And so, um and it's always an in-camera, it's on-camera, on-set interview. So it's not it's not podcast. i mean, it's not a Zoom thing. We can't Zoom in. So you have to be here in Los Angeles. So just like to say that. yes Yeah, no, that's amazing. um So thank you so much. This has been thanks so fun. Thank you for having me.
00:31:00
Speaker
You guys, another great episode. I hope you learned a lot. I hope you connect with Davina. Just as by a way of housekeeping, we are doing our quarterly webinar on April 2nd on rethinking design in neurodiversity. I will be joined by Grant Harris, who you've seen on this podcast in prior season. He's a certified diversity executive.
00:31:23
Speaker
going to be a really, really great conversation. Grant brings so much to the table and I'm so happy that he's also agreed to join us, not just on the podcast, but on the webinar. So you guys know where to find me, follow me, hit me on LinkedIn with people you want to hear from, topics we need to cover this season. Until then, we'll see you later. Bye.