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CMCL Interview: Kole Petersen
158 Plays1 year ago
Julie sits down with Kole Petersen, a writer for The Catalyst, an independent student newspaper of Colorado College, to discuss his three-part expose’ on the Disability Equality Index (DEI). Kole explains why he believes the DEI corporate rankings are misleading and damaging for the disability community.
Notes:
Kole Petersen is a psychology major, journalist, and student-athlete at Colorado College. Read his three-part series discussing the problems associated with and caused by the Disability Equality Index: The Disability Equality Index: A Mirage of Hope, The Disability Equality Index: The Incalculable Harm of Incompleteness, and The Disability Equality Index: A Measure of “Trust” Causing Distrust.
Changing Minds and Changing Lives is produced by Disability Solutions, a non-profit consulting firm and leader for global brands in talent acquisition and inclusion for people with disabilities.
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Transcript
Introduction and Special Guest
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome back to Changing Minds and Changing Lives podcast. My name is Julie Sowash. I am the founder and executive director of Disability Solutions, where our mission is to help change the minds of corporate leaders and people leaders about the value that people with disabilities bring to their employment and to subsequently change the lives of as many people with disabilities as we can in the process. um I am so very excited because I get kind of a special um opportunity today with my guests. So I am going to introduce at least to my part of the disability world um who I think is going to be, not think, no, is going to be an up and coming voice in our community who's going to be one of those change makers because
00:00:52
Speaker
I get the idea he might be a little fearless and he definitely says what is on his mind and will hold us to account in ways that I think we as a community ah need to be held accountable in the ways that companies need to be held accountable. so And after much, much planning and struggling to figure out how to get our calendars to work together, I have the pleasure of introducing Cole Peterson to the show today, a student at the Colorado College. Cole, welcome to Changing Minds, Changing Lives.
00:01:28
Speaker
Thank you so much for that amazing introduction and thank you again for having me on. Glad we could finally get this worked out. Oh yeah, I'm so excited. So tell us about Cole. So, as you already mentioned, I'm a student at Colorado College. I'm going to be a sophomore in the fall. I'm majoring in psychology, also studying Indigenous Studies and Creative Writing as minors. I'm on the Bars Through Swim team. I'm on the Disability Alliance. ah
00:01:59
Speaker
a Back home in Texas, I worked as a referee for my town's special needs soccer team, which was an amazing opportunity. ah My brother was also on that team, who's also autistic as am I, and I'm an autistic self advocate. That's awesome. And you are a freshman, right? You're just finishing freshman year. Yeah, I just finished my freshman year a couple of weeks ago. Very nice. So what do you swim? I mainly swim breaststroke and individual medley. I think my best event now is the 400 IM. 400 IM. If you guys are not swimmers, that is feasibly the most grueling race in all of swimming. Will you ah will you be watching the the Paris Olympics and rooting on the teams? Oh, 100%. I'm really excited to watch all of those events.
00:02:49
Speaker
Oh yeah, swimming is my favorite sport of all time and and closely followed by track and field. is our Our daughter ran track and field in college. So you guys are probably wondering, Cole, he seems pretty cool, but how did you find him? Why have him come
Criticism of Disability Equality Index
00:03:03
Speaker
on the show? and Ashley Sims, our marketing director at Disability Solutions, sent me an article that Cole wrote for The Catalyst, ah the student newspaper at Colorado College that just sort of blew me away. um And she was like, we got to get this kid. We got to get him on the podcast. like I just know that I've heard you say some of these things, but he's really kind of gone sort of to the table.
00:03:29
Speaker
Um, and, and really, um, what he's talking about to, to kind of give you a quick intro and we're going to post all of these in the YouTube feed, um, as well as on our website, as long as that's okay with Cole, but it's really talking about, um, the disability equality index. And in part one, there's three parts. Cole calls it a mirage of hope, which just kind of, I think set the tone for all three pieces. So first of all, tell me. What prompted you to do this sort of in-depth look at the Disability quality Equality Index? So I was trying to come up with topics to write about. I'd covered some like topics on disability and employment, like I've written about the Prospector Theater in Connecticut. ah i've I've wrote about ah and above like the title, Wave Car Wash in Florida. So I want to do something about disability inclusion and employment.
00:04:29
Speaker
So I was just looking around trying to find if there was like measurements of inclusion, maybe to find companies I could write about. And I came across the Disability Equality Index and I was like, hey, this could be a pretty good resource to use and maybe I'll cover it. So I looked a little bit deeper into it. One other their homepage found like their corporate partners. And that's where I first got suspicious about it, because there were so many companies that had like scores of 90s and 100s. In my mind, that meant they were perfect on inclusion. I was like, that's a little suspicious. I kind of want to look into how they score this.
00:05:07
Speaker
So I looked at the questionnaires around, I think 30 pages or so. And I was just shocked and angered at how limiting that questionnaire was and how little the corporations actually needed to do to score high on it. And it it was made even worse by the fact that it was all self-reported. So I just went on a deep dive in this and I felt like I really needed to talk about this. So you and I are in agreement um here. i A lot of times, the companies that we work with at Disability Solutions, they also participate in the the DEI. And what I say ah about it, generally speaking, is um it is self-reporting. And it's also a good public relations activity if you're doing the work. If you're not doing the work, um then getting 100 on the DEI doesn't
00:06:02
Speaker
doesn't do anything. and And I think that that's what you mean when you say a mirage of hope is you see these companies that you think are doing really well, um but then upon deeper inspection really aren't meeting the bar. Is that a fair statement?
Tokenism in Corporate Representation
00:06:19
Speaker
Yes, 100%. I think I'd cover this more in part two, but I mentioned that ah Amazon, Nestle, and Southwest Airlines are three companies that all scored a 100 on the index, but have wildly different standards and practices when it comes to disability inclusion. And just to like the average person looking into it or just looking on their website, it can be extremely hard or like almost impossible to to distinguish
00:06:46
Speaker
what these companies are doing if you're just looking at the score. Yeah, I think that's a really good point. And and I want to pop back because something that you said in in the first piece that that really stood out to me, um and let me quote, ah we're talking about disability history and disability disability employment history. Any disabled person could only find work at freak shows and circuses that exploited their disabilities to entertain the public. This state of disabled employment represents the wider treatment of disabled people at the time. They were presented as exhibitions rather than human beings. And you know what caught me about that, Cole, was that
00:07:34
Speaker
while not an apples to apples comparison, I think we still see that form of freak show in a lot of um places of employment because we see tokenism. We see that that random disabled person, that random disabled employee that gets put on all the posters and they get touted around like Um, they, they've now solved the problem of disabled employment because they've got one bright shiny object to show off. and And that piece, that echo of history really stood out to me. Yeah. And I hate how that practice has continued to this day, how they really have just one spokesperson trying to like bring up the, the.
00:08:17
Speaker
of their respect and the prestige of other their company just ah just because it's one person doesn't really mean that the entire practices of that company reflect it. Right, right. Now exactly. It's very similar to like green washing or rainbow washing in my opinion. Well, I think that's ah that's a really nice comparison. I've i've not um and not thought of it in that way, but you're right. it it is We'll have to think of a term for that um so so that we can use it. But yeah, I think that makes a really good point is that um not only do we have a
00:08:52
Speaker
a self-reporting tool, and I don't want to pick on the DEI as the only problem um
PR vs Genuine Inclusion
00:08:59
Speaker
in our world. But what we're really talking about, i so I think, and I want you to push back if you disagree, is that we have companies that are not necessarily focused on doing the work of getting people with disabilities into roles where we are successful, growing and thriving and contributing to the bottom line, but we're getting um we're we're working on the brand, we're working on having a nice face to it, we're working on the PR pieces of it. And and I think that's where when we think about the mirage of hope and and the different kind of titles that you used for the DEI, that's where we get into trouble.
00:09:40
Speaker
Yeah, that's definitely my opinion on the matter. It just seems like for a lot of the companies who participate on um the DEI, they just want another sort certification. They just want another like gold star on their resume rather than like actually wanting to put in that work, making themselves truly inclusive. They only want to be inclusive on paper.
Improving Disability Indices
00:10:05
Speaker
So if we think about What would you want to know, right? if If you, Cole Peterson, had your choice of information about companies that you were going to potentially work for, um what what things are most important to you?
00:10:26
Speaker
I mean, first off, I wouldn't make the index self-reporting because that would make it way too easy to bypass the system. Another thing I'd want is like is interviews and opinions from disabled employees themselves and also outside employees who have interacted with their disabled counterparts to see what they view of the of of their treatment by the company itself. I also want to see the amount of like ah a charity where community involvement that these companies are in so they're like ah to kind of show that they're like truly in touch with the disabled community instead of just putting on a facade ah there's uh i just want to see if the if the benefits of the company like health insurance and all of that are equally applied to disabled
00:11:17
Speaker
disabled employees, just to have that sort of equitable treatment. And yeah, those are like the main things I can think of. Yeah, I think I mean, I think those are all really good points, right? We want to hear from employees that do work there, did work there. Um, we want to know, I think the hiring numbers, so like how many people are hiring and how are they staying? One thing that I think that you pointed out that a lot of times, uh, companies miss though is, um, I call it the what's in it for me. So the, the benefits of working at a company when you're ah a person with a disability, like.
00:11:54
Speaker
the um the access to healthcare, what's gonna be covered from a mental health perspective for neurodivergent individuals, those kind of things, so that you would have access. and And I think that is just such a great point. And also how how they'll be treated by the people in the higher up positions. That's an incredibly important thing because if you're not respected by the people at the job, how can you expect to get work done or just feel like a part of the community? yeah Yeah, no, i I think that's also a really good point. So would you be looking for like maybe how um how are managers trained? How are people leaders trained for people with disabilities? And I i feel like that sounds like a little generic. like I know training doesn't fix everything, um but you know at least I guess what are the efforts? Yeah, I know it's generic to just say training, but i mean it's
00:12:50
Speaker
It's one of the few measures that we have to show like if the company and the managers actually care enough to to care for their disabled employers and make them like ah make them a fully like accepted part of the team. What about um how important like are is flexibility to you and and you're you? You may be a little young in your career to think about that, but as someone who balances student an athlete, full-time student, as well as then your other responsibilities, um including the catalyst, um you know kind of what's your ideal work environment?
00:13:29
Speaker
I mean, I haven't had a full-time job yet, so obviously I might not be the best person to like so put my opinion into that into the ring. But mean flexibility is definitely important because like for certain physical and mental disabilities, flexibility is a necessity in order to ah ah maintain their physical and mental health. ah but ah but But even for not to say I wouldn't employ, flexibility is an incredibly like essential part of work-life balance.
00:14:01
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. And I think that's one thing that we saw a lot of in the pandemic world is that we got that flexibility. And one of our big concerns is how that's being drawn back um now and how beneficial it's been to adding more than 2 million people with disabilities back to the the workforce.
00:14:22
Speaker
Yeah, the ah returning to the office is dangerous for like immunocompromised individuals and assesses to go back into the office. ah It also provides difficulties for those with ah physical disabilities interacting like in person. with coworkers is another problem for people with developmental disabilities, like social anxiety, all of those things. So flexibility is not just like an optional thing for certain workers. It's a necessary component of the workforce, in my opinion.
00:14:54
Speaker
Yeah, no, I think that's a really excellent point. So not only, if we kind of switch gears a little bit, not only do you go after the DEI, but you also, and I will, full transparency, just found the article before we started recording, but I also see that you have on the catalyst the audacities of autism speaks. Do you want to tell us a little bit about that article?
Critique of Autism Speaks and Advocacy Writing
00:15:21
Speaker
So I first wrote that article two years ago for my high school's newspaper, ah full transparency. Before that time, I didn't know that much about autism speak. So I just kind of like blindly supported them because that's what my family and other people in my local community did.
00:15:37
Speaker
But around like sophomore, junior year, I really wanted to like get more informed and be like a better advocate for people like myself and and my brother who are autistic. So I looked into Autism Speaks, their policies, their commercials, all of that. And what I found was really disgusting. So just ah Finding all that out was like the reason why I got into writing for the student newspaper, why I continue to write to this day, and how it made me even more passionate about this advocacy. So, no, I mean, that's that's amazing.
00:16:16
Speaker
one being you know just in high school and to think, you know what, we have to get a little bit deeper on these things, I think is um a credit to you and and I'll say your parents too. um Because we do oftentimes just accept a brand at face value, um especially in in the nonprofit world, disabled or not. um And so you found that something you thought was supportive of you doesn't meet your values. Is that fair? Yes, because like ah one of the key values that Autism Speaks was founded on was the idea that it was a disease that needs to be cured. And I wholeheartedly disagree with that. Just because autism is a disability, it doesn't mean that it's a life-threatening disease. And that just like struck a chord with me. I really hated that. Autism Speaks was like an organization that was like
00:17:11
Speaker
ah like a combination of multiple other nonprofits, including Cure Autism Now. And I just do do not like the fact that curing is ah is a big part of their marketing. There's also a commercial I watched where like a mom of an autistic child was considering like driving off of the road and like killing themselves and their child because they were like overwhelmed with their child. So that kind of like makes it more sympathetic to the parents of autistic parents rather than like the autistic people themselves, which I also thought was incredibly disgusting when the attention should be paid to how can we improve the lives of the the autistic people in our lives? How can we maybe like accommodate them to better function in a neuro-typically-ran society?
00:18:06
Speaker
So you you brought up something actually that we hadn't talked about before we decided to record, but I think is important to call out here is you know a lot of times just from my experience working with companies, we work with employee resource groups or or you know some sort of disability alliance type group. And a lot of times those groups are run by parents and caregivers instead of employees with disabilities. And I think and knowing ah a little bit about the the history of Autism Speaks. It it really was a parent-led organization for a long time. um and And we really have been encouraging and really helping companies to understand that caregivers are a great part of every disability you know alliance group, but really the voices in should be
00:18:59
Speaker
us that it should be led by us. It should be directed by us. It should be our voices that are heard as as a big as as the primary voice because we are the ones affected. Yeah, I wholeheartedly co-sign that.
00:19:15
Speaker
i think and I think that's something, and i'll I'm not a ah young job seeker, but I think that that's something that is going to be more important to to job seekers as they enter the workforce. They're going to be looking for um that engagement that is with them and not with their parents. so I think that that you make such an excellent point that I would love so many of the employers out there to hear. so Before we just kind of talk about you a little bit more, is there anything any other company that you have your targets on right now? do we Should I be expecting some new bombshell from Cole Peterson?
00:19:54
Speaker
I don't have any of my crosshairs right now. I mean, I kind of touched upon the little bit of research I did on Amazon and Nestle and how Nestle in particular like had horrible treatments of like deaf workers in their factories in Brazil. And and I covered on that that briefly and I believe it was part two of that article. Uh, Amazon has, has like denied ah disabled workers of their rights, uh, given to them by the Americans with Disabilities Act. Even though it was labeled the best place to work for disability inclusion just last year. be yeah Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. So go ahead.
00:20:36
Speaker
but but But no, you're not gonna like, I don't have another like bombshell to throw out right now, but maybe in the future, maybe next year. Okay. If you get one, will you give us a heads up so we can make sure that we share it and and maybe have you back on if it's one we we desperately need to talk about? Oh yeah, definitely. I would totally be down for that. Awesome. So how's the how's the reaction been? have Have you gotten a big reaction from anyone in our community or just sort of in the corporate community after you wrote these articles?
00:21:08
Speaker
I mean, I haven't gotten anything really from the corporate community, but but on my campus community, it's been a really positive reception to it. like The people in the accessibility resources department, for example, reached out to me me personally and told me that they were so happy that this kind of discussion was like being more open and facilitated on campus. An English professor also reached out to me personally who like teacher classes in the lens of critical illness studies and said and also reflected that same tone. And yeah I was really happy with how my how this series and how all of my articles for the catalyst thus far have been ah been received by my campus community, by the community that I have back home.
Aspirations in Clinical Psychology
00:21:57
Speaker
and Yeah, I know, I love it. and And that says a lot for for the college being open to having these conversations. So um I know you're not a journalism major, you're a psychology major. So what what's sort of what's the career trajectory you're looking for? So after undergraduate, i I do want to go to graduate school, get my master's and PhD. And I want to work either as a clinical psychologist or developmental psychologist, specifically with kids that have neurodevelopmental disabilities like autism, like Down syndrome, like Williams syndrome. And I just want to work to make sure that they have the best lives possible to make sure that
00:22:40
Speaker
they can be accepted by their communities and educate their families on how to help with that process too. That is amazing.
Listening to Disabled Voices
00:22:50
Speaker
um I am so excited to have had you here today. This has been a conversation that's been long in the making, um but one, I'm just so excited to see more of your advocacy and more of your truth telling to our community and to the corporations that quite frankly need to hear it very plainly, just as you've given it to them.
00:23:11
Speaker
As we always do, ah we're going to end with two questions. um The first one is, what is one thing that you would tell a corporate leader, a CEO, um that would change their mind about what our community can do in their companies? I guess I'd just say, point and simply, disabled voices matter too. Just because we have a disability, just because we may have a harder time like learning communicative skills, that doesn't mean our voices are less important. Even those that don't have like
00:23:47
Speaker
have verbal skills yet, their experiences and and what and and the things that they can do are just as important. People like my brother, who are on a different part of the other spectrum, he's more non-verbal, he doesn't like take tests well, but his determination, his happiness in life, the experiences that ah ah that he has and the stories that he can tell are invaluable to to not just our family, but to the world as a whole. So all disabled voices matter, even if you can't hear their voices just yet. That's amazing. Clearly, you are an amazing big brother and an advocate for him as well. And second question, what is one thing that someone has done for you that's helped change your life?
Support from Family
00:24:43
Speaker
ah I guess I'll just have to go with the the constant support of of my mom, honestly. When I first started like looking into Autism Speaks, for example, and showed her what I had found, she wholeheartedly supported my message and my opinions. As she started supporting the Autism Self Advocacy Network, which is like an organization that I really support because it ah Because ah it hires like people who actually have autism and like shows that it's It's a disability. Yes, but it's a condition that would that we need to accept and support and uplift and Yeah, my ah my mom has really been supportive with my like journey and journalism for for one and the journey of my life for two like she's as she taught me
00:25:36
Speaker
and She taught me everything I know now. She's taught me how to be confident, how to be assertive with the things that I'm passionate about. I just can't thank her enough. That is amazing. Thank you Cole's mom for making an amazing Cole. So if someone wants to connect with you, um how do they find you? LinkedIn, what's your what's your favorite? um I mean, I'm on LinkedIn, just my name Cole Peterson. I have a Twitter that I just made, but there's nothing on it. I mean, i've I have an Instagram, but it's also private. But if you want to check it out for some reason, see a private profile, it's cold pizza. All right, so LinkedIn, Cole Peterson Peterson, p e t e r s e n and Cole with a K, right?
00:26:23
Speaker
Yes, that's right. Awesome. Everyone gets at least one of those wrong. I had to look several times, I will be honest. so Cole Peterson, thank you so much for taking some time to chat with me today. I know it's super early where you are, but I'm so glad we got to have this conversation. and I do hope that we hear from you again in the near future. And thank you so much for having me on. this was and It was an honor to be on the show. And thank you for reaching out and being open. Appreciate it.
00:26:54
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. All right, guys, this is another episode of Changing Minds, Changing Lives. Go find Cole Peterson, connect with him, give him support, hire him, whatever. Do it and and read the things that he is writing at The Catalyst for the Colorado College because they will change your mind about how we think about self-reporting and advocacy organizations. Until next time.