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The Truth Of The Matter is Episode:173 The Uncertainties In Following Jesus Christ
20 Plays2 months ago
Continuing through the Gospel of Matthew series I thought that it would be a great idea to change things up a bit, so I invited an old friend to the Gospel of Matthews series to have an intentional conversation. The truth of the matter is... sometimes when it comes down to discussing Biblical passages you can speculate about what it takes to live it out but ultimately there's a challenge to move in faith especially when you can’t see the outcome. Living out what God tells is no easy task, which is why we need to learn from our mistakes. Let’s also appreciate the experiences we have because that is what makes the difference when you speak into the lives of others. The question becomes: do you have the wisdom to inform me down the right path? Which is why I thought that this week it would benefit you all if I brought on an old friend to share some of his wisdom from his experiences since he has lived much longer than I have and knows much more than I do; more importantly he’s a husband and a father which fits right into what the passage is addressing. The passage that we are discussing is the Gospel of Matthew 10:35-36.
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Transcript
Introduction and Gratitude
00:00:01
Speaker
This is the Truth of the Matter is podcast. I am your host, Jonathan. This is episode 173.
00:00:09
Speaker
Let's begin by recognizing and appreciating all of our new and consistent listeners.
00:00:24
Speaker
We thank you all in advance for continuing to press play at your own convenience. And I pray that this podcast, regardless of the episode that you press play on, can and will be a blessing to you. So thank you so much for tuning
A New Pace with Paul Granger
00:00:37
Speaker
in today. It is actually going to be a different pace because For this type of conversation, I thought it was important that I bring in a different voice. No, this is not as this is not a guest episode, a special guest episode, and this is not the episode in which I would do Bible study reflections solo or with friends, but this is the regular biblical episode of when we are continuing with the
00:01:04
Speaker
gospel of Matthew series. So with that being said, I'm going to bring in a familiar voice or you should be familiar with and know his name is Paul Granger. How you doing today, Paul? I'm doing great. I'm excited because you and I have been wanting to connect for a while and my my life stays busy with three kids and there's always something going on. But tonight was the night. and So here we go.
00:01:32
Speaker
Excellent. So I want to bring in a different voice for this conversation because I think without a doubt you're definitely qualified to be part of this conversation.
Blessings and Life Reflections
00:01:40
Speaker
So one of the things we do specifically and specifically in this segment is we first begin by at least telling the audience how we feel that the Lord has to blessed us this past week. So because you are the guest here, I want to do the honors and allow you to tell us at least two ways you feel like the Lord has blessed you this week.
00:02:00
Speaker
yeah well the one that comes to my mind is uh for for months now in our kitchen we have had inconsistent and often poor lighting we've got we had these old school fluorescent tubes that may or may not work you had to flick the switch multiple times just was not good and there's a much longer story to it but ah today we have ah six what do they call when they're they're set in i'm totally blanking even though i've said the name so many times a day but the really nice flat with the ceiling uh can lights
00:02:35
Speaker
and we didn't pay a dime for them. So it was a much longer story, but it's definitely an example of God's provision in a year that's been been tough. You know, everyone's seeing prices going up and we're we're definitely feeling it in our home. So that's one. The second is, you know, a long time ago I used to run internships and service groups and One of the things that I love to do is use those opportunities to help others come to see my neighborhood as God sees my neighborhood. And what I mean by that is there's a lot of things that are struggles within my neighborhood. We have high levels of poverty, crime, gun violence.
00:03:16
Speaker
And people make but assumptions about what that means, not just about the community, but the people that live here. ah But today I had the opportunity to do something of a ah tour with six people and really help them to press deeper into not just what's happening, but what's the story behind it? What generational history led to where we are today? And how should that change what it looks like to love God and love others in this space? And it was just so life giving.
00:03:43
Speaker
to be able to walk alongside them for that short time. So that's my two. Okay, so my two are very interesting. For one, I was on the line in the supermarket, I believe a couple of days ago, and there was a gentleman in front of me who had a child, he had a Jesus shirt on. I don't know what it is for me. Anytime I see someone with somebody wearing some sort of Jesus gear, the first thing I think is,
00:04:13
Speaker
they have a relationship with Christ or maybe they found Christ along their hardships. Either way, I'm thankful and I'm appreciative of both instances. And I couldn't help but notice that whatever he was trying to purchase, his cars kept declining, the decline, decline, decline. And immediately in my mind, the first thought was, okay, if this card that he tries next declines, I'm going to pay for whatever he has. It wasn't much, it was probably about 15 bucks.
00:04:44
Speaker
And, you know, unfortunately, this is not the story where I actually end up paying. This is a story where he finds a card that works and he keeps going. But the one thing that I felt in that moment is that As I continue to develop my relationship with Christ and I continue to strive to be like him, there's always a sense of urgency that if I see someone in need, I'm immediately trying to follow suit through what does first charge after three talks about that. If you see your brother in need in the system, how can you say the love of God is in you? You don't at least want to help them. And I also thought about the moment that sometimes you might run into things where
00:05:27
Speaker
you might be you might have the opportunity to bless somebody. And in those moments, you may take the instant it may be an instant gratification to do so. It might be a moment that's calling you to do so. And that little hesitancy that you may have in doing it and not doing it makes a huge difference between you realizing what you could have done and you realizing how there are so many people out here, especially with everything going up in terms of just trying to make a living and trying to you know live within a budget how hard it's getting out here and in that moment I realized that you never know or you never realize how however you end up somewhere
00:06:08
Speaker
that God could use you. And in those moments I just said I'm ready and I'm prepared for God to use me as this instrument for his righteousness wherever that moment arrives. So I'm looking forward to more moments like that where I can assist somebody and I can be there to help them.
00:06:26
Speaker
The second thing that I want to say that God has blessed me is that he's placed me now in a situation where I do get to help people who are struggling and needing assistance, right? And we know there's multiple ways we can assist people, either with our ability to, you know, be hands on the words that we say. And I would say in this moment, I'm not going to disclose where I'm working.
00:06:53
Speaker
and what I'm doing but what I will say is that there's so many different stories out there where people need our assistance as you know members in the body and I want to just put that out there that we need to be more attentive and realizing that the gifts and the talents that God has given us is used to help people, even those that aren't even looking for Christ, right? But I'm pretty sure the love of Christ will be experienced by something that we may do for them. And you'll just be surprised so many these stories and how people are attempting to push through. And you'll never know what you may say, or what you may do may be the biggest difference for them.
00:07:35
Speaker
seeing how they might have a chance, a fighting chance to be successful, or how you know they may think that you know God's love that it doesn't exist. And I just want to be used by God in any which way to show people that God's love does exist. And as long as I'm there, as long as I can be used by God, I'm open to those possibilities.
00:07:59
Speaker
So that's, you know, the reason why I always begin this podcast with reflecting and talking about, you know, doing as much as i I think we should is because, you know, God's been a blessing for me each and every week. And I believe that God is blessing believers and non-believers. The question is, are we noticing it, right? I know that God deserves the glory, the honor and the praise. And if we just sit back and reminisce, right, on how good God has been,
00:08:28
Speaker
It's gonna blow your mind, right? So I wanna say let's be intentional and understand how real God is on a daily basis. But more importantly, let's take the time each and every day to be encouraged, right? To reflect and to see exactly what God is doing. And I think that requires us to pay attention, right? To the details that is happening in our lives. And begin evaluating and you'll start to see easily how God is blessing you and how God is looking out for you. So I say if you haven't given it a try, give it a try and I guarantee you His grace and mercy is over your life in just the little things, right?
Prayer and Bible Discussion
00:09:10
Speaker
So with that being said, we're going to jump right into prayer and then we're going to jump right into the passage. And um' again, I'm so glad for you to be for Paul to be here because I think he's going to be
00:09:21
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a ah big help in us unpacking this passage for you today. So Heavenly Father, Lord in Jesus name, we just want to thank you so much for an opportunity to come together and fellowship. Lord, you said anytime two or three are gathered,
00:09:37
Speaker
there you are in the midst, Lord. More importantly, I just want to thank you for Paul and all that he's doing. I want to thank you for creating a way for him to be present here for this conversation that we're about to dive into, Lord. Lord, we thank you, we honor you, we glorify you, we lift you up because we know that you deserve that glory and honor. Lord, I pray that what gets discussed today will be It helped to someone out there, right? That we're not just reading scriptures and taking it what it is, but we're reading them and we're trying to understand them in a much more deeper, profound way. But most importantly, we're discussing them. Lord, I believe your scriptures are not just here to instruct us and to guide us, but it's also for us to discuss it. Because I know that there are so many different different things you tell us that we are going to wrestle with as believers.
00:10:30
Speaker
that we shouldn't just read the scripture and understand or think that it's gonna be that digestible for everybody. But podcasts like this and podcasts that are out there that have a willingness to discuss it, I thank you for creating the opportunity for us to discuss it. And and I pray that whoever's listening will leave with a different perspective, not just on the passes that we're discussing, but on your word.
00:10:59
Speaker
In Lord we say this in Jesus name we pray Amen Yes, so, you know when I I sat back and looked at this passage You know, a lot of times i I attempt to biblicalize
Uncertainties in Following Jesus
00:11:14
Speaker
it, right? I'm looking for passes that are relatable. I'm checking different translations to see how, you know, the passage is connected. Cause I believe the Bible is a book that is ultimately a book that is passed so many different connections. And then there are sometimes I look at pastors like this and I think it's.
00:11:36
Speaker
I think truly it's hard to just process it without realizing the challenges that come about when we read a passage like this. So the passage that I'm talking about and the title at least for this podcast, is I wanted to tap into something that was real. And I wanted to title it with something that I think people could relate. And as this is episode 173, the title is Uncertainties and Following Jesus Christ, right? We live life with a lot of uncertainties.
00:12:12
Speaker
and i think it was apropos to title this podcast and i think just based on the passage that we're reading today you're gonna find out why i thought it was necessary to title this so we're gonna go to the gospel of matthew as we continue in the gospel of matthew series we're gonna go to chapter 10 and i know that i'm taking my time by unpacking these verses because i feel like these verses are very powerful at least in this chapter that it causes me to ponder on a lot of things and i can't just skip over them especially where the more I ponder, the more it leaves me with more questions than I would ask. So we're going to look at verses 35 through 36. And I chose the NLT because I i like how it's phrased in the Amplified, but I feel like the NLT does a great job of placing it in perspective so I don't have to go to two different translations. I originally started with the English Standard Version, but I felt that the NLT did exactly what I needed it to do when it came to how it broke it down between the English Standard Version and the Amplified.
00:13:12
Speaker
And this is what it says, it says, I have come to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And then verse 36 says, your enemies will be the right in your own household. Your enemies will be right in your own household.
00:13:41
Speaker
So before I take a crack at it, I just want to kind of get Paul's thoughts when he reads his passage. And if he has that same, you know, thought when you read this that it puts you in ah an uncomfortable position as a believer, and I'm pretty sure it is very devastating to those who don't read the passage of any fear, but automatically are troubled when they read this, these two verses.
00:14:07
Speaker
yeah because it it doesn't seem very christ-like does it yeah you know when we use that phrase you know be christ-like we're thinking of love we're thinking of unity we're thinking of peace and in fact in verse 34 jesus confronts this notion in them do not suppose that i've come to bring peace to the earth i did not come to bring peace but a sword and i get even that is confusing for us because we think every Christmas we talk about the Prince of Peace. You know, like, how could the Prince of Peace say that he hasn't come to bring peace? And I think what we're seeing here is why the kind of thing that you're doing is important. Actually pressing in and confronting our understanding of Scripture, not just glancing over it but digging deep because I think what's happening here
00:15:00
Speaker
is these disciples had already developed an idea of their mind of who the Messiah was supposed to be, what he was supposed to do, and what peace should look like. And in their minds, they imagined that the Messiah would make everything better. So all the hardships that they were currently experiencing, all the fears that they were facing, the Messiah would eliminate all of that. He would bring peace right now, peace, and there would be no pain, no suffering,
00:15:31
Speaker
What Jesus realizes is that that's that's not actually what's ahead for them. In fact, you know all we have to do is scroll back to some of what you've already explored as you've explored chapter 10 because he gets into some rough stuff. I'm sending you out like sheep among wolves.
00:15:50
Speaker
ah He goes on to say be on guard you will be handed over to the local councils and be flogged in the synagogues On my account you'll be brought before governors and kings as witnesses to them and to the Gentiles Further down it says Brother will betray brother to death and a father his child children were rebelled against their parents and have them put to death You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved He's talking about persecution He's talking about hatred. He's talking about pain. This does not sound like the Prince of Peace. It does not sound like a Messiah. It sounds like trouble. And when I read this, it's interesting because our gut reaction is why would we ever want this? Why would we ever want man against father, daughter against mother?
00:16:47
Speaker
But what we do know if we really have looked into Jesus is that Jesus doesn't hate family. He doesn't actually want to cause division, but what he wants is a piece that's bigger than just a piece on this earth. He's talking about an eternal peace. But the problem is, the big problem is that his ways, God's ways are not our ways.
00:17:14
Speaker
Their thoughts are not our thoughts. So the ways that we think life is supposed to work, Jesus is going to be at odds with it.
Challenging Teachings of Jesus
00:17:21
Speaker
The things that Jesus said, and it's it's just not only going to not make sense, but going to seem threatening. We see this in the Pharisees. They feel deeply threatened by even the simplest things that Jesus says.
00:17:34
Speaker
In other words, by Jesus just being himself, he is coming at odds with the world. He is pushing up against human understanding and human thinking, which, oh man, does a number on our self-preservation.
00:17:51
Speaker
does our number on our sense of control over our environment and over things. And so we feel threatened. And what do we do when we feel threatened? You know, fight, flight, freeze, but there's a whole lot of fighting back that happens, whether it's internal or external or both. but So yeah, man, I agree with you. There's something happening in this moment that is deeply unsettling for us.
00:18:20
Speaker
But it's unsettling because within us is still a human understanding. Within us are still human pursuits. And if we look a little further down, what Jesus says in 39, and in fact 38, whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds their life will lose it and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.
00:18:43
Speaker
What Jesus is inviting us to is going to cost us everything and everything within us is going to try to rebel against that. I felt that, yeah.
00:18:59
Speaker
So the first thought that that came to my mind and I guess I want to Again, I love that you hear it because I want to get your thoughts here, right? So when we we look at verse 35, and I've just pulled up the Amplified Version, I just want to read this. It says, for I have come to set a man against his father and a daughter against her mother and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. The first thought that comes to mind is for one,
00:19:34
Speaker
We look at passages like, for an example, I want to bring up Joshua 2415, right? And in Joshua 2415, it sort of goes into a standard. And in that standard is the expectation of what it's like to serve the Lord, right? So Joshua says for, but if serving the Lord seems undesirable to you,
00:20:03
Speaker
then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the culprits or the gods of the Amorites and whose lord whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord.
00:20:22
Speaker
And immediately what comes to my mind is there are children all over this nation, over the world, who are living with parents who don't necessarily believe in the God we believe in.
00:20:41
Speaker
right And how did those children find out about Jesus? It could be school. It could be their friends. It could be a context that they stepped in and immediately felt God's presence or security. And when they get back home, they may that not that might not be their reality. What if we swipe it? right What if we talk about parents who have a desire to raise their children with Christian principles and values?
00:21:10
Speaker
And yet you have a rebellious child at home, right? Who doesn't see the love of God or doesn't see the protection that the parent is hoping to provide that child. And immediately, not only not only are they rebellious, but they're resistant. And you have even single moms, single dads struggling to raise that child because that child resists God, resists this authority, resists this.
00:21:38
Speaker
anything that points to accountability. And I think even when we just we look at the next verse, right, that is saying here, and the amplified version, it goes on to say that, and a man's enemies will be the members of his own household when one believes and another doesn't. And this is tough because The one element we know is if we have a passage like I think it's Ephesians 6, one through three, and it speaks about, children obey your parents and the Lord for this is right. Honor your father and mother, which is the first commandment with a promise so that it may go well with you and you may enjoy a long life on the earth. This is tough because if that parent isn't a believer,
00:22:37
Speaker
You're called by God to obey that parent. You're called by God to submit to that parent. And what if that parent is abusive? What if that parent doesn't love that child? What if that parent has a willingness to leave that child in abandonment and doesn't provide? When we read scriptures like this, it's very straightforward.
00:23:02
Speaker
But the context of predicament, the situation, the circumstances that people are going through all around this world can read a text like that and say, how can I do that? What does that look like to do that? When I have parents who don't love me, when I have parents who won't obey me or not obey me, when I have parents who don't see a reason to my resistance and what they're asking me to do, right? And then we have parents who are saying, you don't obey me, right? I provide, I put a roof over your head, I put clothes in your back, I put food on the table. And yet they find, those children find it hard to obey their parents. And it's tough, it's rough. So I'm not a parent, I don't have children. So I could only,
00:23:57
Speaker
speculate the difficulty, right? I can only speculate the challenges. And this is why I wanted you to be on here because I'm pretty sure you've run into situations of you've seen circumstances play out when these are the very things that are going on in homes. And I mean, how does that make you feel? And what are your thoughts when we when we see situations like this occurring? Yeah.
00:24:24
Speaker
Yeah, this idea again, man against his father, a daughter against her mother. um And it can be incredibly difficult when we see it, but also when we experience it, you know, my kids are young. And so one thing that carries me through is I remind myself that they are still growing, that their brains are still developing.
00:24:45
Speaker
But it doesn't mean that there aren't very frustrating moments for my wife and I when one of our kids is exceptionally stubborn or resisting ah instruction or even resisting things that are good for them because they've already decided what's best for them.
00:25:04
Speaker
And as parents, we have this hard invitation to choose to love them in the midst of that construct. No parent is going to be able to create, cultivate perfect children because perfect people don't exist. You know, Jesus was the only one who managed to get through his life without sinning. And one of the reasons was And he says it is, I only do what I see my father doing. His so relationship with, his pursuit of, his perception of his father was so, um first and foremost,
00:25:49
Speaker
that it shaped everything else to the point when where there when there are moments that a normal human would have easily been tempted, he avoided it because of that. We think of the temptation where the ah you know the enemy comes and three times throws these things out there that from the enemy's perspective, Jesus really needs or Jesus really wants, or this would make your ministry so much easier.
00:26:14
Speaker
And Jesus was so tuned into his father that his response was his father's words through scripture, right? We see it in the Garden of Gethsemane when he is very honest with his father, very raw. If there could be any other way, I know what you've called me to do, but if there could be any other way for you to take this cup from me, but not my will, but yours be done.
00:26:43
Speaker
And my children ah are not at a place where they have that level of faith, trust and commitment to me because sometimes they want that dessert or they want that toy. The the things of this world have a significant pull and you and I are the same way with our heavenly father. Hey, we want to love him, but man, when when the bills are stacking up or when we're just frustrated about something or when there's an injustice,
00:27:14
Speaker
We are pulled, we are pulled back. And so we see this in a couple of ways. We see this in verse 37. Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me. Anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Is Jesus saying we shouldn't love our parents, that we shouldn't love our children? Absolutely not. The key is they're more than me because what Jesus knows is the secret to how this life actually works.
00:27:41
Speaker
that if we put anything before Him, there is gonna come a point where the limitations of that or the limitations of ourselves are gonna make us hit a wall. And we can't go any further. If we put Jesus first, there are no limitations to Jesus. There are no limitations to the Spirit. We see it earlier when Jesus says, you're gonna get put in a situation where you're gonna get ah flogged and locked up And when you get to that place, it says in 19, don't worry about what to say or how to say it. You and I would worry if we were i thrown into prison, arrested without cause. We're like, how do I get out of this? What do I say? I don't want to be locked up. Don't worry about what you're going to say or how to say it. At that time, you will be given what to say, for it will not be you speaking, but the spirit of your father speaking through you.
00:28:35
Speaker
And so when Jesus is first, when when we when we make room for the Spirit to work, we're able to step into these spaces where the impossible can happen, where the unexpected can happen. But when we are operating in of ourselves, that's where we find this tension. In fact, I want to bring us to Micah 7, because when Jesus says 35 and 36,
00:28:59
Speaker
The way it's written in scripture is such that you're like, oh, this is a quote. Jesus is quoting something. And so what it's referencing is from
Family Dynamics and Faith
00:29:07
Speaker
Micah seven. And I want to read the whole thing and not just verse six. Verse six is where it comes in. Okay. But chapter seven starts off. What misery is mine. I am like one who gathers summer fruit at the gleaning of the vineyard. There is no cluster of grapes to eat. None of the earthly figs that I crave.
00:29:26
Speaker
The faithful have been swept from the land. Not one upright person remains. Everyone lies and wait to shed blood. They hunt each other with nets. Both hands are skilled in doing evil. The ruler demands gifts. The judge accepts bribes. The powerful dictate what they desire. They all conspire together. The best of them is like a briar. The most upright, worse than a thorn hedge.
00:29:56
Speaker
The day God visits you has come the day your watchman sound the alarm. Now is the time of your confusion. Do not trust a neighbor. Put no confidence in a friend. Even with the woman who lies in your embrace, guard the words of your lips. For a son dishonors his father. A daughter rises up against her mother. A daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. A man's enemies are the members of his own household. But as for me,
00:30:26
Speaker
I watch and hope for the Lord. I wait for God, my savior. My God will hear me. And so even all the way back in Micah, there is this spiritual awareness that the cheat code to life, the secret here is to seek first the kingdom of Godness, righteousness, and all these things will follow. When we don't do that, when we do the opposite of Proverbs 3.5, where it says, trust in the Lord with all of your heart, soul minus strength, and do not lean on your own understanding,
00:30:57
Speaker
If we lean on our own understanding, if we lean on human relationships, there is going to be this limit. And so, you know, Jesus is inviting us to see that the way that these things are going to work is we are going to hit this tension. We are going to press into our understanding. We're going to press into our desires. We're going to lean into our relationships and we're going to find that they can't withstand everything, that they have breaking points, that, as Micah 7 put it, there's a lot of selfishness within us. There's selfish ambition and vain conceit. All that is within us, even the best of us. You know, even the best of us are like thorn bushes.
00:31:39
Speaker
And then Jesus, though, is also still saying, that's not the end of the story. He actually is the Prince of Peace. But in order for us to get to the place where we even want to see his type of peace, we have to come to learn that our type of peace isn't a sustaining peace. And that journey feels like a lot of ah opposition, feels like a lot of hardship. But once we break free of that, suddenly we see things way differently.
00:32:11
Speaker
Yeah, I appreciate the the perspective that you're bringing there. Because again, just like I believe most scripture does, is it does point us back to Christ, right? And if we don't have a solid and a healthy hermeneutic, we may think some of these verses is related to us overcoming, right? And without Christ, like, oh, yeah, I can overcome, I can overcome. But we know that that overcoming comes with the assistance of Christ where we we know we can do all things through Christ who strengthen us, not do our own strength or do what we have. And I appreciate the perspective that you have at least pointing us back to that because I remember when I took a glance at this, the first thing that came to my mind was all the suffering that I know that people are dealing with on a regular basis as it relates to these challenges that Jesus is pointing out about what's going to happen.
00:33:04
Speaker
right? And the reason why i I pointed out that portion, because the amplified version, in my opinion, does a next in the job, I just pointed out that it's going to come down to who wants to believe and who does not want to believe. And if you are a parent desiring to raise kids in a household with rules and regulations and things that are put into place for their protection and the standard that they want to have, you're going to have children that are not going to comply with that. And what do we do as parents when those children are out in the world and they they leave and they don't want to come back home, right? We we have to trust in Christ that eventually maybe they might be
00:33:48
Speaker
you know, the prodigy son, where they go out and they experience life and it hits them hard. And they realize that things are so much better on the secure home and parents who love me in spite of the choice that I've made, right?
00:34:06
Speaker
Or they might be realization situations where as s children, when dealing with parents who are not of Christ, we have to trust and believe that Christ will soften them up.
00:34:22
Speaker
right? And even part of soft and I can speak from experience that my mom spoke about this, that she found Christ, but her parents weren't Christians. And it got to a point where her parents will not let her go to church.
00:34:39
Speaker
So she at the time used to listen to church on the radio. She at the time would sneak over before coming home and speak to, you know, one of the ushers at the church to get things from the materials. And ultimately, the hope was that the parents would eventually loosen the strings a little bit. But these are the tough things that yeah I know scripture is not going to capture.
00:35:07
Speaker
Just like scripture gave us hints of what Jesus felt, scripture gave us hints of how some of the disciples were murdered and killed, right? And suffered. But it was for the benefit so that us as readers can read into the scriptures and see.
00:35:23
Speaker
that even though it may not express every ounce in challenge, and even though the writer did not write every ounce in challenge, we all have our individual challenges that we're going to deal with in those moments. I think the key is just to hold on, although it may be so much going on, right? I spoke about a court case in 1972, Jonah Jota versus the state of Wisconsin, and it was it was the mere fact that he believed that his daughter should be homeschooled. And what did that do? That placed them in jail. And it wasn't until the
00:36:02
Speaker
It wasn't until the courts ruled in favor for him, which opened the doors so that people who want to raise their children with what they believe are allowed to do. Sometimes it's a lot of pain that you have to go through to finally see something come through to you in the end. And that's the challenge, right? Trusting in God and situations and circumstances that we can't see a positive outlook too, which is why our faith is not in our ability to see a positive outlook. Our faith is in Christ who knows every possible outcome that's going to exist.
00:36:37
Speaker
And that's what we have to place our faith in. Yeah. So you yeah get this opportunity then within that to kind of own this reality where one, you just mentioned this scenario where somebody knows what's right and good, but their struggle comes because others can't yet see it. And we have this scenario where sometimes our suffering is because we can't yet understand and see it. So even as you were talking, I was thinking of ah my relationship with my mom.
00:37:08
Speaker
And how, ah I mean, she is a big part of the reason that my faith is where it is. I mean, she has always been a consistent, ah faithful believer, consistently seeking God through hardships. I mean, my father passed away when I was five and it's, I'm still learning how she had such profound strength losing the man that she loved and then having to care for us kids and figure out what that meant.
00:37:38
Speaker
But even though I kind of understood these things as a kid, I did not understand. And then I get to be a teenager and I think I understand life. I think I realized thing. And I remember there being periods when I was a teen where, man, I would get so mad at my mom. And I would think that she was so wrong about this, that, or the other specific situations where we were seeing things in different ways. And I was just so mad that she just couldn't understand, that I knew what I was talking about and she couldn't understand. And then I grew up, Jonathan.
00:38:11
Speaker
You know, I get to be an adult. yeah My brain finally solidifies, stops developing, and I see things differently. I understand things differently, and I can remember a specific moment in the driveway.
00:38:26
Speaker
where I had been processing this and I realized I need to apologize to her. wow At the time, I wasn't trying to hurt her, but I was so convinced of my understanding of reality that I did hurt her. But then when I saw reality rightly, or at least more rightly, ah i I understood more of who she was in that moment, not perfect.
00:38:51
Speaker
but not what I thought she was. And so I was able to apologize. And then you fast forward. Eventually I have kids and I'm dealing with kids being stubborn and thinking they know what's best. And so I understand her even more.
00:39:08
Speaker
And so what we have here is Jesus confronting their understanding of reality. Again, they had their ideas of what they wanted the the Messiah to be. They had their ideas of what they wanted life to be. They had their ideas of what peace was. And Jesus knew what he offered was not that. What they wanted was small and limited compared to what he had to offer. But as long as they held to that, they they were just going to have a tight grasp and never accept.
00:39:34
Speaker
what Jesus had to offer. and And the good news for us, the good news for us, is the same good news that you just described with your mom. That ah could have people could have been frustrated with the story of she decided to seek God, but then these obstacles got thrown in the way. And they could have just taken that as the end of the story while God let her down. Because if God was a good God, he would have made it so she could go to church.
00:40:00
Speaker
yeah But she was on a journey yeah and she learned a perseverance of seeking God that many others don't if they have church readily accessible to them. Her faith was probably realer at her age than some of her peers because it wasn't easy and natural and expected to seek God. She had to fight for it, right? Who knows what her journey brought about. But I think the good news for us is that God understands that we're on journey. Jesus is saying this to to a number of men, but one of them is Peter. And Peter gave up his livelihood to follow Jesus. Peter was very much committed to Jesus and loved Jesus deeply.
00:40:42
Speaker
Peter heard the words that we read earlier, where Jesus says, be on your guard, you will be handed over to the local councils and be flogged in the synagogues. He heard those words. He knew Jesus said this was going to happen. But what do we see later on in the story? Jesus is arrested and then people begin to ask, wait, weren't you with him too? And suddenly he's reverted back to his human understanding of reality. it it at I I don't want to be beaten and flogged and arrested. I don't i can't serve God if I'm dead. So I've got to lie. I've got to deny Jesus. And Jesus had even given him a heads up he would do this, but he was so caught in his human understanding that he did the thing that he told Jesus he would never do. yeah Hours later, hours later. But Jesus knew he was on a journey.
00:41:36
Speaker
Because Jesus not only let him know, hey, I know what you're about to do, and I'm not rejecting you. But then later on, Peter's on a boat, sees Jesus on the shore, jumps out, swims over, and then Jesus has this beautiful restoration. Do you love me? Then feed my sheep. Do you love me? Then feed my sheep. Because he knew that it was going to take time for Peter to accept this foolish reality.
00:41:59
Speaker
to accept this reality that was going to cost him everything, eventually, literally his life. And as a human, that was too big of an ask. It was too costly.
00:42:13
Speaker
But as he walked with Jesus, as he grew in what it means to look to Jesus, to seek first the kingdom of God, not just his understanding of God before, but the living Father God that he was discovering anew, the more he did that, the more he began to be able to do these foolish, risky, crazy things. And the Peter we see towards the end of his life looks vastly different than the earlier Peter, both.
00:42:39
Speaker
We're authentically wanting to seek God. But the later Peter was doing so knowing that it was not by his might and not by his power and not based on his understanding, but on God. And the only way he could access that was to seek first. Yeah. Amen to that. Agree with that. So there is one more element that I want to point out.
00:43:04
Speaker
and would like to get your thoughts on this. So again, we're trying to be a bit even kill here and and addressing this particular two verses. And I appreciate Paul going back and how understanding that throughout the we throughout the segments that I've done, I've pointed out and discussed points and portions of them.
00:43:28
Speaker
but it's still a harmony of the scriptures where you can see that no it's not as if Jesus just pointed this out to them. This has been a long period of time when Jesus has been mentioned in different things up until he got to this point. There's just so many different scenarios he's creating so that he can be aware, not just for us to read about their awareness and their predicament during their time period,
00:43:54
Speaker
But understand that when suffering and pain comes, it's going to come in different variations in our own journeys as we walk out the Christian difference and attempt to hold tight in faith in God, regardless of what we're dealing with. I do want to acknowledge and and also shout out to those who have abandoned, who have been abandoned.
00:44:22
Speaker
by their parents and found generous parents that out there are that who who have been willing to assist in their ability to still strive and desire after their dreams and aspirations, right? we There are plenty of foster homes. There are plenty of organizations that have done the best that they could in holding up to provide for children who parents no longer wanted them or no longer had the resources to provide, right? And I just want to point out that no matter how much we talk about this passage, there's a scenario out there that we probably haven't even thought of that is existing right now.
00:45:13
Speaker
There are so many different outcomes that are happening where parents so are hoping that their children come home and children are hoping that their parents change their mind, right? I think Jesus was being realistic. He was being realistic then and he's being realistic now that Part of truth is that it's confrontational and that confrontation will be at the expense of creating situations that are very unpleasant, right that are not satisfying and not comforting, that are conditions, conditions that are overwhelmingly not in our favor.
00:45:52
Speaker
that it's going to take courage to make a decision and hopefully that is Christ in the midst of it. And even though it's hard and it's stressful and it's something that we may not want to deal with, when the time comes my hope is that you hold on and you hold on tight to what that looks like.
00:46:11
Speaker
The passage that I just want to bring up here, and I'll read it in its context, is a the Good Samaritan story. I'm a Titusan because I think it's important, right? So looking at the Gospel Luke chapter 10, verse 25 through 37,
00:46:27
Speaker
In context, it says, on occasion, an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. Teacher, he asked, what must I do to inherit eternal life? What is written in law? He replied, how do you
Parables and Cultural Reflections
00:46:39
Speaker
read it? He answered, love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind and love your neighbor as yourself.
00:46:51
Speaker
You have answered correctly, Jesus replied. Do this and you will live. But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, who is my neighbor? Who is my neighbor? In reply, Jesus said, a man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beating him, and went away, leaving him half dead. A priest happened to be going down the same road And when he saw the man, he passed by on away on the other side.
00:47:27
Speaker
So to Olivia, when he came to the place and saw him pass by on the other side, but a Sumerian as he traveled came where the man was. And when he saw him, he took pity on him. He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his donkey, brought him to an end and took care of him. The next day he took out to the Nerei and gave it to the innkeeper.
00:47:57
Speaker
Look after him, he said, and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expenses you may have. Which of these three do you think was the neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of the robbers? The expert in the law replied, the one who had mercy on him. Jesus told him to go and do wisely. The reason why I mention this passage is because the neighbor Or rather, the portion in the scripture, when he asks, who is my neighbor? Right? That neighbor could be anybody. And when I think about us as believers, and what we're called to do, we're called to love one another, right? Same thing it tells us in the Gospel of John, you know, they will know you are my disciples based upon how you love one.
00:48:51
Speaker
And I understand the challenges of just raising your own children. I understand the challenges of looking after those that you can afford. But that neighbor, that person could very well be a child who's looking for a home, a child who's looking for their next meal, right? A child who has been abandoned by their parents, but wants to be viewed and loved and appreciated just like a child of your own.
00:49:23
Speaker
And what I'm saying in a nutshell is that as Jesus mentions what we've been talking about in Matthew 35 and 36, about turning on how um a son a man would turn on their father to over their father, and a daughter would turn over their mother, I believe as believers.
00:49:44
Speaker
I believe that as followers of Christ, whatever we can do and our willingness to assist people, I say that we should consider that. We should try to do that. Because it may be that very, that kid may be you you become your neighbor, right? That person who's been abandoned.
00:50:05
Speaker
right And and i've even we've even done it as a family when we had a dog who was abandoned. And we took the dog in. And we we we we had the dog clean. We had the dog fed. We got him his shots. And he became part of our family. right And I say, there's going to be opportunities out there to do that.
00:50:27
Speaker
yeah And if we want to be known much more for what we do than what we say, that's that's pretty much what encapsulizes in John when it says, let us not just love with words or speech, but in actions and in truth. And again, I understand the difficulty right about what we're dealing with now in the economy and finding the job. But if you can't, if it's willing, if God touches your heart to do so,
00:50:56
Speaker
i I do want to point that out because that's the very that's the first day that came to my mind about how these things are happening and and it's all because we're choosing to place our faith in Christ. We're choosing to follow him and not any of the gods, right? We're choosing to do that. And you have to be mindful. There are many families that are Muslims, right? And abandon their children. don't want nothing need Don't want anything to do with them. Or or or there's so many different cultures of that have different belief systems all around the world.
00:51:36
Speaker
that abandon their children because they don't wanna follow their religious policies and systems and organizations. There's so many different things. So that's that's probably what I wanted to call out, that yeah you may find your neighbor somewhere. yeah You may find your neighbor somewhere. That invitation that you read at the start of that passage that Jesus gives, the you know love God and love others, basically, and loving your neighbor.
00:52:03
Speaker
You know, when we look at this these verses, a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, against, against, against, you know, when is it that we are against someone? It's when they're threatening our way of life or our plans or our desires or our resources, when something is threatened within our reality. And that's when we are against. And, you know, what you just described is is 100% a way to get out of that trap. Because to stop and help the Samaritan was costly. Like literally costly to the guy.
00:52:48
Speaker
or yeah, to help the man on the road, it was costly to the Samaritan because one, he paid money, but put two, they weren't supposed to be interacting with each other. yeah Three, who knows how bloodied up this man and was and like, could he get it, like his health could be, it like there's a whole slew of reasons that this was not the wise self-preservative choice for the Samaritan, but he chose to do it. And as a result,
00:53:17
Speaker
Not only was he fine, but a man was restored from the brink of death. And you know, what's interesting about this is when Jesus says, I've come to turn a man against his father, against his, her mother, you know,
00:53:34
Speaker
It's not that that is the end all be all, like that's just how it's going to be from now on. Or put another way, did this mean that prior to that, there was no opposition? Prior to Jesus, there were there was peace in households? No, actually, we can read scripture and see there was a lot of brokenness within households. Even King David's family had a lot of opposition within it. So what is Jesus doing differently here? Well, with him coming to earth,
00:54:04
Speaker
He brought that new reality in a palatable way. Prior to that, they had the scripture, but they couldn't understand the truth. Try as they did. They could not grasp the spiritual depth of that truth. Most of them, the prophets, they could glimpse it. Others could glimpse it. But general people took the word and understood it with their human minds. When Jesus came as a man, suddenly the word became alive.
00:54:34
Speaker
But the problem is when that happens, it's going to confront the things that don't align with the word, the things that are in opposition to the word. And so this passage has an interesting piece when in verse 34, when it says, I did not come to bring peace, but the sword, what it reminds me of is Hebrews 12, Hebrews 4.12, for the word of God is alive and active.
00:54:59
Speaker
sharper than any double-edged sword. It penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow. It judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. And John says in the beginning of the Word and the Word was God and the Word was with God, Jesus is this double-edged sword. And that sword hurts. I mean, just for those who can,
00:55:28
Speaker
Picture that a sword dividing your joints. There is nothing pleasant about that image. Joints and marrow. But this division, Jesus knows that what he's doing is he's dividing out that which will actually bring death. Dividing out that which will actually distract.
00:55:51
Speaker
And in that division, he is freeing us so that we can actually live. He is actually cutting binds that are holding us from actually thriving, that are dragging us down. But in the midst of that is going to be that opposition, that tension. So a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, all this this tension that exists isn't a permanent thing, but is that moment.
00:56:17
Speaker
when suddenly the human understanding and the spiritual understanding are at odds with each other. And you have to choose. Like you referenced earlier, choose you this day who you will serve. As for me and my household, I'm gonna serve God. But he recognized he couldn't just say, no, all of you are gonna serve God. He knew that wouldn't work. But he knew, he knew who God was. He knew they needed God.
Spiritual Truths and Fellowship Discussion
00:56:40
Speaker
So he was gonna put it out there and say, but you choose. And And I think what he understood and what God understood is that then they entered their journey. yeah You know, if they chose God, they were still going to have a lot to learn, just like Peter. If they didn't choose God, they were going to learn the hard way that a life without God is not actually life at all. A life without God is limited. A life with God has not, both lives have hardship.
00:57:11
Speaker
but a hopeless hardship in a life without God, because once you've exhausted yourself and your resources, there's nothing left but a life with God. Everything could be lost, and suddenly there's the God who can do the impossible, the God who has limitless resources, and the God who you know says there's another spot in here that talks about don't fear,
00:57:32
Speaker
ah you know Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather be afraid of the one who can destroy both soul and body in hell. Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground outside your father's care. And even the very hairs of your head are numbered. So don't be afraid. You are worth more than many sparrows. And so everybody listening You are worth more than many sparrows. No matter how hard things get, no matter how frightening, there is a God who actually sees reality for what it is and is inviting us into that and is patient with us when we don't get it. But he knows the restoration and the full life that he has for us. And even if we lose this physical life, what he knows is that that is but a glimpse
00:58:25
Speaker
of the eternal life that he has for us. That is just a blip on the radar. And whatever light and momentary troubles we experience that in the moment feel not light and momentary. He knows it can't compare to the glory that's to come. Yeah. All right.
00:58:43
Speaker
Well thank you so much Paul, this has been extremely helpful and I appreciate you taking the opportunity to come partner partner with me to unpack this portion of scripture because I think it's important that at times what allows you to see the complete picture is having the opportunity to fellowship, right? And that leaves the door for you to consider so many different things, right? You may go in, view the description one way and believe in that you have gone to a point where you you feel like you heard from God and now you can press forward and move forward in understanding. But what I think God does an amazing job at continuously is that fellowship opens the door
00:59:30
Speaker
for a conversation and conversation opens the door for learning and learning is key especially when it comes to reading the scripture. And if you believe that anytime two or three are gathered, there he is in your midst, then you have to believe and accept the fact that someone who's in your midst, God is utilizing to open the scripture to you, right? I don't want you to think that script open in the scripture means you're hearing a voice that's gonna give you all the answers. No, I think at the end of the day,
01:00:03
Speaker
it's getting and around people much more smarter than you being around people who have wrestled and studied the scriptures for very long periods of time and being open to listening and learning and growing in that space of you being vulnerable and them being willing to share the wisdom that they have about the same text you read just with a different set of eyes and That's what I was hoping to get, and that's what I've gotten, and I hope this blesses you. So we come down to the end of this conversation. Again, Paul, I want to thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate you. I appreciate my friendship with you. I hope that God continues to do what he's doing with me, and that is using you for the kingdom of God. So I know you've been here several times, but I still want to give you the platform, the opportunity to share your podcasts, because you do the mind did you do my mind and do that.
01:00:59
Speaker
Yeah and you know what I want to let people know is that what God's invited me to is not to create a podcast or write books or write blogs or do these things it's to create authentic accessible space because as you noted so often we are individuals solo trying to figure out this life trying to figure out ourselves trying to figure out God and struggle with it you know fall short but when we come alongside others, when we can be real with others.
01:01:31
Speaker
The Spirit can do something unexpected. Ephesians 3.20, to him who's able to do immeasurably more than all you could ask or imagine because of the power at work within you. And so my hope is to create those authentic, accessible spaces. And so if anyone wants to explore what that looks like, you can go to wheredidyouseegod.com. But what I want you to know is it's not about content. It's about a God who loves you. And if I can be of service to you, to walk alongside you, I am happy to do so.
01:02:02
Speaker
Okay. So you mind praying this out? Yeah.
01:02:08
Speaker
So Father God, we thank you that you are God and you are good. That you, you know, the deeper peace in life that you want to bring and that you know that we will struggle to grasp that true reality. So we thank you for your patience with us. We thank you for your word, that living and active word.
01:02:31
Speaker
And we thank you that you are moving even today among the listeners. So, Father God, we pray that we would come to seek you more fully each day. In the last prayer, my only name, amen. Amen.