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The Truth Of The Matter is Episode 179 : Special Guest - Aaron Guyett
13 Plays3 days ago
“The truth of the matter is” podcast is all about providing an honest, contextual, historicized, Philosophical and Psychological view of the Bible through the use of Hermeneutics, while sharing some personal experiences from myself, Daniel and on occasion our special guest. We believe in sharing practical ways of applying God’s word to everyday life. Today I spoke with Aaron Guyett who is a disciple in Christ, husband, father, and teacher. He also has his own podcast called Leaders of Leaders. Aaron has also founded two fitness businesses, Innovative Results and Battle Ropes Education, which he successfully sold. He successfully led marines in combat and continues to lead and teach Marine stateside as an instructor/leader in the Marine. Tune in and take away what you can from our conversation which was a blessing to me.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast and Audience
00:00:01
Speaker
This is the Truth or the Matters podcast. I'm your host, Jonta, and we're here with our special guests. But before we introduce and welcome him inappropriately, let's begin by recognizing and appreciating all our new and consistent listeners.
00:00:19
Speaker
We thank you all in advance for continuing to press play at your own convenience.
Philosophical View of the Bible
00:00:23
Speaker
Now, this is your first time listening to the Truth of the Matters podcast. We want you to know that it's all about providing an honest, contextual, his historicized, philosophical, and psychological view of the Bible. Due to the use of Herman Newitz, while sharing some personal experiences from myself, Daniel, and on occasion, our special guests.
00:00:42
Speaker
We believe in sharing practical ways of applying God's word to everyday life.
Introducing Guest: Aaron Gallet
00:00:47
Speaker
Today, we will praise God for another new testimony we will hear. We hope after hearing this man of God, that you will see and understand and be encouraged and uplifted how an experience with Jesus Christ will guarantee that your life will not be the same. Now, without further ado, I want to walk you in a guest, Aaron Gallet. How are you doing this afternoon, sir?
Aaron's Challenging Week and Finding Joy
00:01:07
Speaker
Oh, I'm great. I'm great. Thank you so much for having me on the show.
00:01:11
Speaker
Yeah, so you know first thing I just want to ask is what is one of two ways you feel like the Lord has blessed you this week? Yeah, I've had ah what, I don't know, what some some might consider a a rough week, a rough couple of weeks. ah I do ah do some providing of of a medical device. Basically, it's cold therapy. And this medical device, there was a couple of them that had like manufacture manufacturing errors.
00:01:39
Speaker
And what's interesting is you know they're they're trying to take responsibility as much as they can. Our company, you know the the company that I work with to to provide this for vets and and military, um they're trying to you know do what they can. and But ultimately, you know in front of the face of the the doctors, in front of the face of the patients, I have to take complete responsibility right for this error for these issues. and And then what that's doing is it's piling a bunch of extra time, a bunch of extra heartache, and and a bunch of people that are upset because the thing that they were expecting to work a certain way is not working that way. And I totally understand that.
00:02:18
Speaker
And so it's really easy for me, and I think anybody, when hard stuff is happening, things aren't going as planned, um things aren't going as expected to just kind of get down and be be saddened by it, be ah anxiety ridden by it, right? Be stressed out by it. um and And for me, like my, you know, my go-to emotion tends to be anger. And obviously anger outbursts it is not,
00:02:45
Speaker
ah is is not actually godly right is is not actually worshiping the lord who is preparing these steps who is preparing this path that i am walking out and you know it's funny because if you if you just look in the scripture right? Paul exhorts and James exhorts the churches that are going through way tougher trials. I mean, they're literally being tortured and killed for their belief, for worshiping God. And and they're they're saying double down, right? God's word is saying double down on that and more than that, consider it joy.
00:03:25
Speaker
consider these temptations, considering these trials, considering this these testings, joy. um And so one, it's just a really good a frame change, right? Like really thinking like these are, yeah, this, this is a bummer, right? This is not good.
00:03:41
Speaker
However, I can consider
Practicing Gratitude in Anxious Times
00:03:43
Speaker
it joy. These are the steps that the Lord has has for ordained since before the foundations of the earth. he's He's counted the hairs on my head. I can have faith and hope in his plan in this. And so I can consider it joy. So I just took a moment yesterday to rattle off a bunch of bright spots, a bunch of things that I am grateful for. And I sent all of them because my wife and I have been kind of contending with this sort of ah anxious time, right? and And instead of being anxious, just giving that anxiety to the Lord.
00:04:15
Speaker
and knowing that we are His, and and we can consider this, even these occurrences, joy, ah in the midst of of these trials, you know if they are trials, or or maybe it's testing, or maybe the Lord's creating a ah different path, and i'm I'm going to be walking. and I don't know what He has in store. I don't know the future He does, and I can have faith in that. And so, I mean, that's a huge, that's just one just worldview adjustment It's remembering the worldview that we have and embracing that instead of embracing the worldview of of the world that's around us, because that's going to deceive us, that's going to lead us down paths that are not ah not glorifying to God, not worshiping the Lord. And so, you know, obviously that's one big one, but then I just rattled off like
00:05:04
Speaker
five or six and and one of them is just the fact that the Lord I just look at my kids and I can see God's handiwork right there in front of me even if they're being a little squirmy and a little a little unruly ah but But especially, you know, when they're when they're just being so generous, so cute. um And I just, I don't know, that stuff floors me. It just makes my heart sing and sing to the Lord. And so I'm just, I'm so blessed by the community that I'm in, the church that I'm in. the home that the the Lord has provided me, the children that the Lord has provided me, my wife that the Lord has provided me. And I you know and i just got to go back to those basics and embrace those things and just, I got to sing his praises. I am so grateful for for the Lord and what he has provided and what he is providing, even in these trials and even in these temptations and even in this like time of conceived difficulty, but it's not really
00:06:08
Speaker
that difficult if I'm looking at it with you know full ah godly eyes because there's just so much more to be grateful for than these small little um problems, right? yeah Yeah.
Discussion on Blessings and Gratitude
00:06:22
Speaker
Love your answer. It was this interesting. I had a conversation with a friend of mine's, Jen, where we used to talk and sometimes when we would be done talking, we would pray and she would say,
00:06:32
Speaker
in the prayer, Lord bless the details of our lives. And at first, I thought that was kind of cheesy. Like we may bless the details of our lives, but over time, I'll start to understand that, hey, this is something we've added into our segments now is that reflecting over throughout the week and realiz ah realizing the good that God has done, even though it may be overcome by things that we're super concerned and worried about,
00:06:59
Speaker
And like you said, Jesus was clear. like he It's important that we shouldn't worry. right He says, by worrying, how could you add a single hour into your life? right And rather than be concerned of what isn't happening, and I don't know, society seems to be more fixated.
00:07:17
Speaker
on what the devil is doing and not so much what God is doing. And if we just take the time to reflect, we'll see that God's hands been over our lives throughout the week. And we should be glorifying, thanking God for those moments, rather than murmuring and complaining. And I was just talking to somebody about that the other day.
00:07:36
Speaker
is his pastors in Corinthians chapter 10, specifically is verse 10. And he's going down the list. And I love it in the Amplified version, because there are five things he discusses on why the children of Israel didn't enter the Promised Land, and one of them was a murmuring.
00:07:53
Speaker
Right? And as a society, that seems to be what's going on now. We're just murmuring and complaining. And we're not, we can't expect anything from God if if we're going to do that. We have to have a better and positive attitude to it. And for what we understand, it strengthens and develops our character. That's like the most important thing.
00:08:13
Speaker
So now before we kind of get into a bit of your story and learn a bit, because I do like the marine portion of it. I did not know that about you. I got to apologize for that. that and I did not know that, but I see how you carry yourself, how I was very reflective of that. But I want to provide my audience a little bit about you. So Aaron Golet is a disciple of Christ, husband, father, and teacher.
00:08:32
Speaker
He has his own podcast called Leaders of Leaders. Very good podcast. You should probably go and subscribe to that. Aaron also has founded two fitness businesses involved with results and battle ropes education, which he successfully sold. He's a successful lead Marine and combat and the continues to lead and teach Marine stateside.
00:08:53
Speaker
as an instructor, status leader in the Marine. Didn't know that about you either. So before we kind of dive into that and means we sort of learn a little bit about you, ah we believe in On the Truth and Mads podcast, pray first and foremost, and then allow the Holy Spirit to come in and guide the whole conversation so that we can benefit from it. Heavenly Father, Lord, and in Jesus' name, we want to thank you so much for the out opportunity that Aaron has set aside the time he has set the time.
00:09:20
Speaker
We know that time itself is very valuable to us and you even told us that we should use it wisely in the things that we do. So Lord, I hope that through this conversation we'll be blessed and we'll see how a relationship that you have with him can be impactful based upon the things that he shares and the wisdom and knowledge that he has accumulated over time.
00:09:41
Speaker
I breast those who are on the fence trying to decide who you want to be and what they want to be with their life can be inspired and motivated by Aaron's words. Allow the Holy Spirit that you have placed inside of him to shine and reveal information that could benefit us all as we tune in to listen to what he has to share. Lord, I ask that you bless our eyes to see our ears, to hear our hearts to receive and our minds to understand, Lord, you said anytime two or three are gathered, there you are in the mist.
00:10:08
Speaker
So we pray that you will be done here in this conversation and that we leave different in the way that we came. Lord, touch our ability not only to hear, but also to receive, right? And receive that information and more importantly, put into practice. So Lord, we thank you for what Aaron and the time he has set aside to have this conversation.
00:10:30
Speaker
And I pray that you will be glorified and lifted up in this conversation, Lord. Lord, we say these things with surety and confidence in you. In Jesus name we pray. amen jesus name Amen.
Motivation and Experience in the Marines
00:10:41
Speaker
So let me kind of ask you, what motivated you to want to join the Marines?
00:10:46
Speaker
Man, i I wanted to be a a Marine since I can remember, you know, back in the day when I was playing as a kid, we called it army, you know, and so that would be a soldier. But once I found out there was this other branch called the Marine Corps and, uh, There's just something about the romanticized ah image of that, right? And I do caveat and say on purpose romanticize because once you get in, it's not as romantic as you idealized in your head, but that's ah that's a lot of things, right? That's a lot of things in life.
00:11:18
Speaker
So yeah, I just always you know always wanted to be a warrior. I i truly believe that's that's how God created me. He created me to be a warrior. And the the awesome part is now I see that it had far less to do with kinetic war time.
00:11:40
Speaker
and much more to do with spiritual warfare that we all face day in and day out. um And so it's far less about what I can do with my weapon or weapons, what I can do with my body, although those things are important um and they can protect innocence and we do, you know, and they can preserve ah freedom.
00:12:05
Speaker
However, it's it's a far cry from the you know the the prayer that that Jesus prayed, and that our Father, you know may his will be done on earth as it is in heaven. and And he didn't say that as some out there next day, tomorrow thing, he's saying it right now, like right now.
00:12:27
Speaker
And, uh, yeah, and so I just always wanted to be a Marine and I thought it was hard. I thought it was challenging. And so at the nice, uh, young, innocent and immature age of 18, I joined the, I joined the Marine Corps. Um, And man, that was ah that was a step in a direction towards God, but ah ah there was a lot of descending ah into the the the depravity of my own ah flesh and fleshly desires that transpired before um being confronted by the truth.
00:13:05
Speaker
Truly, yeah Jesus Christ, the truth, the way, right? And the life in turning over to the Lord. So just to kind of, like, because, you know, I've always been curious as to ask these things. The whole push up pull up day when you get into that. but do you Do you remember how much you could do? Did you practice it? Like, what was the whole mindset like getting into that before you even jumped into the whole thing?
00:13:31
Speaker
yeah you You know what's crazy is, and I say this and people don't believe me, um but, you know, i whatever. I actually got out of shape in bootcamp. I was so physically prepared. And the thing is, i you know, i I played a little bit of football. I wrestled. um I played soccer.
00:13:50
Speaker
um And then, and then I just, I have a ah pretty, pretty organized and, and fairly disciplined and and trained approach to life anyways. And so I just, you know, anything I'm going to do, I'm a, I'm a do full, right? Full on a hundred percent, thousand percent, whatever. And so I, you know, I did.
00:14:10
Speaker
way too many pushups way too many pull ups, way too much running um that I got actually I got out of shape in ah boot camp, and then, and then I got back into shape outside of boot camp. And so once I was with my, we call it a line unit, but once I was with my, my unit in, in the normal sort of Marine Corps machine, um i brought my you know i i could I could easily bang out 25 pull-ups right now, even you know still. at At the old cadre age of 42, I could still hold my own. ah Typically, i I can outperform you know most of the
00:14:50
Speaker
18, 19, 20, and I call them 20 stupid years old, ah just because I was 20 stupid years old when I was in the Marine Corps as well. A lot of that is like just the immaturity right that comes with it and ah and a lack of of discipline and preparation. but yeah so and then And then push-ups, I could probably bang out 50 right now.
00:15:10
Speaker
Um, i've I haven't been tracking the 50 as well, but I, I typically do a couple of rounds of 25, uh, pushups at a time and then 10 or 10 or 12 pull ups at a time. and And with my other, you know, training and working out and and running and things like that and rucking. Uh, but I, I just try to, oh, if you, if you stay ready, you don't have to get ready, you know? Yeah, absolutely.
Early Christianity and Skepticism
00:15:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:33
Speaker
Okay, so Where did you find Christ and all this and or maybe I should is did you know did you know Christ going into this? Yeah, so I'll say I knew of Christ, ah my childhood journey was interesting. You know, you you have parents that, I think there's a lot of Christians that are kind of Christian in name only, um right, where they they know Christianese, they know the language of of ah Christians, and so then they speak it.
00:16:05
Speaker
But you know God knows the heart. So i don't I'm not trying to judge you know who who is the Lord's and who is not. He knows that. And and so obviously, that's ah that's an area that I stay away from. um I also understand you need to discern the body. You you have to know them by their fruits, you know things like that. So I also am not going to be so open-minded that my brain falls out. um So I witnessed my parents and our family. We we started at a charismatic church when I was ah a child.
00:16:33
Speaker
um Then we did church shopping ah from ages ah around nine to 11. And then at age 11, 12, we ended up at a Roman Catholic church. um And, but needless to say, the world had seeped in its cultural milieu into my mind and into my heart. And, um, I had a lot of skepticism and questions about this faith. And, you know, part of that is you watch your parents and they do the best they can with what they have. But if you watch your parents be Christians in church and then non-Christians at home or, you know, things like that, or try to be Christians and, um, you know, obviously now I forgive them. I love them. And, and I want, I want the Lord for them.
00:17:14
Speaker
um but You're impacted by that, right? and then And then you start to look at things where you see other people, oh, this person's got it right, but they're not a Christian. And so do they really have it right? you know and And then you jump into something like the Marine Corps and they basically brainwash you right and turn you into this warrior killer type for our for our country, especially if you're infantry, and I was. um And then for me, I ended up going to combat. But I've always been, I've always been,
00:17:47
Speaker
incredibly curious and I've and i've always wanted assurity, right? ah The assurance that comes from the gospel. I've always wanted assurance um but tried to look for it in places where it can't be found, right? And so I remember I was in Kuwait about to go cross the demilitarized zone DMZ into Iraq ah in a couple of weeks. And I remember I went to a service, the only service that was available ah prior to going to combat, going to war. And I remember praying to God a prayer
00:18:21
Speaker
And it just so happened to be a Roman Catholic. um But considering my childhood, I was pretty open to you know what sort of denomination I could find the Lord in. I really just wanted to find the Lord right and and know the gospel and know that it was real and true. um And so I prayed a prayer that God would kill me in combat so that I could find out, is there a heaven and a hell or is there nothing?
00:18:47
Speaker
Um, that's how much I wanted to know. And again, harken back to my 20 stupid year old comment. That's a very 20 stupid year old prayer. That's a pretty immature prayer. Uh, that's obviously not, um, um, there's not a whole lot of salt and light in that. There's not a whole lot of, uh, biblical understanding in that prayer. Um, but it was a, it was an honest and an authentic prayer. And I really did want to know the answer. And I ended up, obviously I'm here today talking with you. I ended up not.
00:19:18
Speaker
perishing in combat and not for not trying ah was in quite a few firefights ah did probably about a million square feet of of building and and house clearing um and it was ambushed a couple of times had friendly fire from animal one seven ah ah another Marine Corps unit ah where they tried to kill us and and Thankfully, they weren't able to see us and we were able to get out of that area. um And so, you know, there was definitely the chance for for my life to so no longer be, but the Lord had other plans as he does. And I ended up in a nihilistic tailspin getting out of the Marine Corps. um Quite honestly, i i i thought I thought, well, I didn't die, so God doesn't exist. That's my answer.
Struggles with Nihilism and False Idols
00:20:07
Speaker
and If God doesn't exist,
00:20:09
Speaker
i The slippery slope of that is you you lose purpose, you lose truth, you lose you lose meaning, ah you lose value. so you So things like love can't be grounded in anything. um Truth can't be grounded in anything. It's just whatever we feel for whatever we want. So I sort of played the game of society is has how I viewed it, ah but didn't really believe in anything. But there was something in my heart that was that was still there and and there it was this um this thing that I couldn't shake. It was like ah when you get sand inside inside your sleeve or something like that and kind of and there's like a little sand pebble that kind of rubs on your elbow and it rubs it raw and you just gotta to get that sand out. it That's what it felt like it was. And it was this understanding that there is such a thing as objective morality yeah um because I despised hearing of horrible,
00:21:08
Speaker
horrific stories of of rape or incest or sexual abuse and and things like that. um and ah And I couldn't shake that. And so that began my my deep journey into all sorts of other spiritual practices, unfortunately. um But I was looking under every rock except Christ, the rock, right? Yeah, so let me ask an interesting question, because this is something that I've stumbled across.
00:21:39
Speaker
yeah Are you familiar with David Goggins, the whole yeah Marine guy? And it seems like to me, he's made up in his mind that a lot of the things of going through training or rigorous training has given him this confidence to be able to do things, right? Now, I don't know if he believes in God. I have no idea. But what I do know is he sense he seems to get this sense of satisfaction through training, through working out, through just feeling to have purpose. At one point or another, did you ever feel that way in doing that? And that sort of was like your satisfaction and contentment separate from God in those stages in life?
00:22:21
Speaker
Oh, yeah. I mean, i i made I made fitness my idol. I made money my idol. I made fame my idol. you know i i i I ran the gamut of all the false idols to include other religion, you know other gods. ah and clearly ah betraying all of the basics of the 10 commandments, which the Lord has given us, right? um and And obviously none no are none are are righteous, right? Not one. yeah and we all We all know that if if you read the Bible, yeah you you understand that and and we need Christ, right? yeah We impute our sins onto Christ, Christ imputes his righteousness onto us. But yeah, I definitely chased after all of those,
00:23:06
Speaker
all of those things. um And then the interesting part is when I when i sort of was nihilistic, meaning i nothing had meaning, then I was just kind of arbitrarily doing it. And what I found is that I was doing it to only feel good, right? So anything that felt good, those are the things that I was pursuing. So it wasn't even like worshiping anymore. It was just like, whatever feels good, do it, which is,
00:23:31
Speaker
ah that'll send you down a pretty sinful path. and yeah and and one And one that is like trying to find the bottom of TikTok or Instagram. You just will endlessly scroll and things get darker and darker and worse and worse. you know Whether that be sexual depravity or ah you know looking good or you know trying to trying to make a certain amount of money because there's no amount of money that's ever enough. right and And so it's interesting that all of those things have a sliver of truth to it, but Satan uses that sliver of truth to hook us, pull us into depravity, right? And desolation that is the sliver of truth is not enough. It's not truth. It's not Jesus Christ. So it's not going to ever be enough to satisfy. And so then we just dive in harder and harder and harder. Yeah. And I i think, I mean, he makes it, he makes a nod to belief in God. And I think his last book,
00:24:29
Speaker
or maybe it was his first book, Can't Hurt Me. I can't remember. um But then it's interesting to know them by their fruit. I don't know. i is is that are Is he doing all this to the glory of God? And if he is, man, magnificent, incredible. yeah um And if he's not, man, I pray for him. you know yeah Yeah. Normally, they say when you are, I would think you would get some sort of... It says, if you deny me in front of ah others, I'll deny you in front of my Father in Heaven. So I don't know if anyone's ever asked him.
00:24:59
Speaker
but it was just out of the curiosity. So can you at least talk a little bit about that sense of bottom, that that bottomness that you felt of just dissatisfaction? What brought you back up or what was the moment in the time that you realized that you needed to be pursuing something that brought out that significance of truth that mattered to you at that point? Yeah, so there was obviously the truth that that I couldn't shake of objective morality. Like I just knew in my heart of hearts that rape is wrong, murder is wrong. ah Abusing innocent is wrong. and And I couldn't shake that and and very much of Romans one, right? you're You're just gonna, you're just it's It's woven into our heart. We cannot shake it and and we look out into nature and we see God. there you just We are all morally culpable because of that. we don't need Even if we don't hear the Scriptures, even if we don't hear the good news of of Jesus Christ, we are going to know God because
00:26:02
Speaker
look, God created all this. you know yeah um and And so we're going to be morally culpable. and And I felt every bit of that. And so I was trying to find God in ah in a bunch of nonsense, really, like at the end of the day. I was always one or two questions away from illogical absurdity in one you know religion or or spirituality or another, whether it was ah Buddhism's, you know, the Buddhist philosophy, or the Hinduist, the Hinduism ah that is a religion, um or ah the New Age spirituality is the big one, it's like name it and claim it type stuff, you know, it's like, yeah, ah we're gonna figure out this formulaic way to ah turn the powers of of the universe towards us. um And, you know, it's, it's
00:26:52
Speaker
if you lay it out logically, it just becomes ridiculous as you start to ask. And you're really two or three questions away from it just blowing up into, it's something that's arbitrary absurdness that we just cling to arbitrarily ah in hopes that it's gonna give us life. um yeah But in instead it grants us cursing, the curse of of sin and death.
00:27:14
Speaker
unfortunately, right? And so I was like, the last thing I wanted to do is go, you know, down the path that I was, that I, that I was on as a child, ah you know, christian Christianity, you know, seeing, I was like, man, I've been there, done that, got the t-shirt. It's, you know, it's not, you know, it's not true, whatever. And and lo and behold, that was where it was like, okay, man, I tried all these other things, obviously, not finding truth.
00:27:41
Speaker
ah in those, so I'll ah'll try Christianity. And if this doesn't work, I don't know what to do. you know And all of those other religions, I i gave it my all. you know i i read I would read the books of wisdom that they those religions had. I would find a mentor. I would go to like ashrams or go you know meditate hours a day or pray or you know whatever it was. um And They all came up found wanting. And so I was like, okay, well, I'll do the same thing with Christianity. I'll i'll read the Bible, cover to cover. I'll ah join a men's group. i'll I'll attend a church regularly, and I'll i'll seek wise counsel. ill ah I'll find a mentor. Yeah. um And i did I did that and I'll tell you what, it was just like, you know Mike Tyson says, everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face. I was getting punched in the face yeah with truth. you know and um And it was the best thing for me. I felt like every question I had, I would get another answer. And and the more questions I asked, the more answers I would find. And and you know Jesus Christ says that, seek and you shall find, right? yeah
00:28:49
Speaker
and and And the kingdom of God ah is now, right? It's it's here among you. um and And so, yeah, I've been able to pursue that. And I pursued it more logically and skeptically at first. um And now I'm completely sold out. Like, God, you here is my life. Do with it what you will. Yeah.
00:29:12
Speaker
direct my foot, direct my direct my um direct my path. you know As I know he is, um but it's just I have complete and utter obedience to the Lord of Lords, the King of Kings. And i as I tell my kids, I'm like, what's a Lord? And I don't know what a Lord is. Well, it's like a boss. right It's like a ruler. like He's the boss of all bosses. He's the ruler of all rulers. He's the leader of all leaders. um And that's the whole point of leaders of leaders. right is yeah so is the leader of Yeah, that's interesting because I want to kind of get into something you about your podcast and kind of understand what means you want to do that.
Exploration of Spiritual Practices
00:29:50
Speaker
But it's something that hit that ah kind of hit home for me when you were talking about Romans 1 and just recognizing and seeing everything that surrounds us is a reflection
00:30:00
Speaker
that shows us that God exists. And there was this one past, I remember this one question someone asked me, they said, Hey, you know, what does God give favor to the believer and the unbeliever? And is it the same? And one of the things that I told them, and I said, Well, remember, john 316 says,
00:30:19
Speaker
you know, it it kind of gives us a ah pretty basic thing that whoever believes in him will not perish but have everlasting life. But the contingent in John 3 16 is your desire to believe in him. And then we get province 3 34, which speaks at the fact that God opposes the proud, but shows favorite and humble and humble to those that are oppressed. But then there was a new pastor that came about and they and I said to them, it's sort of reflective offer the pastors in Matthew and the pastors in James, that says that God causes the rain to fall on the righteous and the unrighteous and the sun to shine on the good and the bad, which made me realize that God's goodness and greatness is not just measured
00:31:03
Speaker
by you know expressing his son, but it's actually in Genesis chapter eight. And I'll read it to you real quick from verse 20 to 22, it says, then Noah built an ark to the Lord, taking some of all the clean animals and clean birds, he sacrificed burnt orphans on it.
00:31:20
Speaker
The Lord smelt the plains of the Romans, said to his heart, never again will I curse the ground because of humans, even though every inclination of human hearts is evil from childhood. And never again will I destroy all living creatures as I have done. And this is the verse right here. As long as the earth endures, sea time, harvest, cold, heat, summer, winter, day and night will never cease. And what that verse told me is that God put things into place that regardless of whether you believe me or not, you should be able to live, you should be able to plant, you should be able to do anything, anything, right? You should have time itself based upon the sun and the moon that kind of illustrates where you'll go to bed, where you'll wake up, you'll have structure.
00:32:07
Speaker
And if that's not good, I don't know what is. There's things that have just been put into place. So, hey, even if you don't even believe that i stuff, God's been good enough to allow you to plant, right, to go through the sense of productivity, to grow for things to blossom. And none of that is associated with, but His goodness has allowed you that even if you came across something like this, you will recognize that a good God gives you access to all these different things. And this has nothing to do with Jesus, it has nothing to do with anything. It just has to do with the fact that this is God, this is an expression of God's goodness to the believer and the unbeliever, which is amazing because when you were talking about just looking at the things itself, it's an illustration of God's goodness regardless of whether you accept Jesus or not.
00:32:54
Speaker
And that's just one thing that crossed my mind was I thought it was a great point by you kind of like made me think about something. So the podcast, the leaders, leaders, what made you want to start it? What was the inspiration
Inspiration Behind Leaders of Leaders Podcast
00:33:06
Speaker
behind it? Kind of walk us through that.
00:33:09
Speaker
Yeah, you know so i kind of I tend to take systematic approaches to things and and try to try to be intentional about what it is that I say, what it is that I do. um And you know when when you give your life to the Lord and and and he has designed you this way, um as you know his gifts that he's given you ah to not share them would be to not worship him right would be to not glorify what he has given you and and glorify God by glorifying what he's what he's given you and so
00:33:51
Speaker
um There's a couple of of realms in which i i I wanted to help others see that, you know, leadership, ah everybody right now and in our sort of modern, wannabe postmodern society tends to see leadership as just generating a bunch of followers. um And I just think that that's a misnomer of leadership. That's just poor leadership.
00:34:16
Speaker
that's or that's okay leadership. Yeah, okay, I got some followers, they do what I tell them to do, awesome. And and we could see, okay, hierarchically and and biblically and scriptur or scripturally or or from you know a theological perspective, that makes sense. you know There's hierarchy and we there's gonna be people that do things for other people. At the same time, every every person has a God glorifying gift or gifts And so if if I'm, think about this from a parenting standpoint, if I'm not intentionally stewarding the gift, the blessing that God has given me, right? that This gift that God has given me, that's His. My child is His. It's not not my child. I've just been given stewardship over this child for a certain period of time, right? And I'm not intentionally
00:35:08
Speaker
helping that child see what their gifts from God are to glorify God. but like what am i What am I doing? like that is my That is my purpose as a parent. um if If I'm in a in a business and i'm and I've been given influence over people that are under me or or work with me, and and I'm not stewarding that time with them, right? Being wise with that time, being wise with with my words with them so that they may glorify God.
00:35:40
Speaker
all the more with what they are have been gifted by God with, blessed by just their creation, and but sustained and also given particular intellectual ah you know queries or or intellectual knowledge or ah specific, you know, coordinated skills or, you know, whatever the case might be. if i If I'm not doing that, like what am I doing? Like what like that is literally what ah a leader it ought to be doing.
00:36:10
Speaker
the The leader ought to be, you know, a rising tide rising tide raises all ships. So a leader is that rising tide to raise all ships. And my hope and my prayer is that then my children and the people that I have influence over will be able to rise raise the tide even more in their spheres of influence, do a better job than I was able to do. um and And to me, that is,
00:36:35
Speaker
that is the God glorifying aspect of leadership. And so I see leadership as leaders who lead leaders, but the caveat and the important part and the thing that I've, that I had to add, it was like two years in, I had to add this, I was like, but that can only happen in Christ. I mean, yes, like you said, we can, you know, rain is gonna fall on the just and unjust alike, right?
00:37:02
Speaker
we can we could do certain things and get certain outcomes by nature of what God has created. However, if we are to glorify God, glorifying Him him is not is not just doing merely what ah His created will will naturally have transpire, but do the thing that is truly glorifying to Him. right See Him in his in His right position as King of all of heaven and earth, right? Go and make disciples or go and disciple nations, right? Not just and just ah you know pray the sinner's prayer with somebody. Yes, that's part of it, but it's like disciple nations. like And we can't do that if we're not thinking about this in a generational um framework, right? In in understanding that
00:37:57
Speaker
all of the time that I have is precious, and it's precious to the Lord to glorify Him. And so I need to be wise in giving giving of my gifts that God has given me to to these people that are in my spheres of influence so that they may give gifts all the more, so that they may glorify God all the more. um So that's that's sort of the that's the the low long version, the non-elevator pitch of leaders of leaders. But it's basically a systematic approach to intentional leadership um to lead
00:38:30
Speaker
leaders in Christ, because Christ is the leader of all leaders. So he's going to be the model. um But then you're going to have particulars that, you know, in this certain time with these certain spheres of influence, with your certain gifts, um where where you're going to be able to truly glorify God with those gifts and enjoy him forever. And then those people are going to do the same. and So yeah, and and I have a tough, this is my prayer, my hope, my thought. Yeah, I have. So I have a tough question.
00:39:00
Speaker
As a leader of leaders, a desire for that, how would you measure success from ah from a Christian perspective and what kind of person take away from that?
Defining Success and Strengthening Faith
00:39:12
Speaker
Yeah, so so one, I think we can we can see success for sort of the the societal metrics, right? um If I'm glorifying God in all that I think, say, and do, then if I make money, it's to the glory of God, right? like yeah If I'm glorifying God in all I think, say, and do, and i'm and I'm getting a wider sphere of influence, it's to the glory of God.
00:39:37
Speaker
However, if I'm doing those things for the sake of that thing, then I've turned that money into the idol and and I'm not glorifying God. I'm pursuing money. I'm pursuing fame. I'm pursuing you know feelings, whatever that case might be. um But if I'm doing it to the glory of God, then then doing these ah quote-unquote materialistic things, it's not materialistic, right? Because I'm not focusing on the creation, the material, I'm focusing on the creator of that thing. And so the the metric can be these normative success metrics where, yeah, I'm making more money. Yeah, I've i've got more listeners on my podcast. Yeah, I've got
00:40:21
Speaker
um more more leaders that are applying the the principles, the the biblical principles of leading other leaders to you know become leaders right in their own right and and have spheres of influence. um And so it's very much the the discipleship model that Jesus Christ had. He was not measuring by the amount of people um And granted, there was times where there was a lot of people, the thousands of people, you know, the Bible says, a Sermon on the Mound, or or when, you know, when he multiplied the the fish in the in the loaves, right? Thousands of people. But that wasn't his measurement. His measurement was
00:41:06
Speaker
always to the Father, always to honor the Father, always to go away and discern what God is is having him do do next. right And this is obviously, he's trying and relational, ah God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, um but in his incarnate right nature, in his human nature, he's like, this is this is what we need to be doing.
00:41:29
Speaker
We need to be, is this is this what I'm doing right now, glorifying to God? And if it's not, okay, what way am i doing i do I need to shift this? Do I need to shift my worldview? Do I need to adjust my frame of thinking about it? Or do I need to wholly, completely change what it is that I'm doing? because No matter what I'm doing, it's it's not glorifying the God, which is going to then lead you into sin. um right and so So that's the metric for me. it It's less about quantity, um but quantity can take a role in it. It's much more about quality and in quality, it's a qualitative metric in that
00:42:11
Speaker
is this, you know, the answer is, is this glorifying to God? And if it's not, okay, well, what is, and let's do that thing, right? And and it's it's not, we're trying we're not trying to earn our way into the glory of God. No, we know we can't earn it. There's nothing that we can do, right? yeah It's because we have this gift.
00:42:33
Speaker
that of the image of God, and and that gift has been purified by the blood of Jesus Christ, that we can now do these things to the glory of God. you you know and And James says it just so well. It's like faith without works is dead. Like you show me your faith, I'll show you my works you know that that shows my faith, right? yeah and and And so to understand that, it's like, okay, because of faith in Christ, because knowing what Christ has done for me,
00:43:04
Speaker
This is all I would ever want to do is to glorify God. I couldn't see, why would I sin just because I've been purified by the blood of of Jesus Christ and knowing that I, oh, he's gonna forgive that sin too and that sin too. Like that would be ridiculous. That would be a waste of the gift that Christ has given me.
00:43:22
Speaker
yeah and so And so in what ways may ah you know can I glorify God? Pursue that. and i i don't you will never you will never It will never come back found wanting. right It will come back pressed down and overflowing. um Even if the money isn't overflowing, even if the fame isn't overflowing, right the the glory of God is overflowing. And that, my friend, is...
00:43:48
Speaker
is is what is what we are called in you know in accordance with his will. like That is his will. Yeah, i think you I think you're making some great points, right? Even I believe it's Paul who says, live a life worthy of your calling, whatever that calling may be. But I think you're you're onto something because you know I remember when I first started my podcast,
00:44:10
Speaker
It was, I've been wired to believe that it was all about the numbers, about that. And then I've realized that, hey, we live in ah in a capitalistic society where everyone wants to be seen. Everybody wants, you know, some people are super caught up in likes and reshares.
00:44:31
Speaker
Right. And subscribers, but was we're not truly seeing the impact that it has to have on the kingdom. And how does it reflect of the message of the gospel? Right. Yeah. And I think everything you're saying is is amazing because if we get caught up in how reflective and beneficial it is for us, then we lose God's heart by doing that, because now we're we' only fixated and how it can change our way of life. And unfortunately, that's the wrong way.
00:45:01
Speaker
we have to sort of see things. And and I think what brought you know the chickens to roots for me was Jeremiah, right? He went out, he shared everything. And guess what? Not one person repented. But that's right we we have to shift our focus from believing that we are performing to an an audience of many when it's just an audience of one. And as long as we're doing that and we're making God content for what we're doing.
00:45:24
Speaker
And I believe that's the blessing and that that is, that's what we should be be pursuing. So yeah you're you're definitely on point with everything that you're saying. Now, I guess I actually did.
00:45:37
Speaker
What has doing your podcast, what has it brought to you? How has it been fulfilling to the way that you feel in being an ambassador of representative of Christ? What has ah what are the fruits and positivity things that have been reflective on your spirit in a way that you feel each and every day when you do it? yeah Yeah, so it's interesting what Leaders of Leaders has allowed me to see as I'm pursuing God in in that worshiping God doing it to the glory of God. ah It's it's made me far more unapologetically a disciple in Christ. It's like, no, this is what we say. This is what we preach. This is the truth.
00:46:22
Speaker
um And this is just, and and so now I can unabashedly not only do it on a podcast, but do it on social media, do it in person. And it's like, and like, you know what you said, it's like, it has somebody ah somebody asked me and have I denied Christ? um Even just with a with ah like a body language or a facial gesture? And it's like, whoa, man. and And so I need to confess that, I need to repent, turn from that,
00:46:52
Speaker
that horrible horrifying sin yeah to the Lord and just give it to the continue to give it to the Lord. And it's what's so interesting is when that is the focus, um when there are numbers that go up, it's like, man, that's awesome. yeah you know Those numbers are awesome. and they Because numbers still mean stuff.
00:47:12
Speaker
But when I'm, man, when I'm chasing the numbers or chasing the likes or chasing the followers, and I've done that, right? I've ive got to be honest, right? I've done, I've done all of that chasing the, the you know, bottom line, chasing the the dollar or whatever. It, it is so unsatisfying because even when I see the numbers go up, it's just never enough. It's just never enough. It's just never enough. Right.
00:47:36
Speaker
The moment I shift away, then I can be so happy that I can be happy that there's increase in followers. I can be happy. I can consider it joy when there's a decrease in followers because it's like, Hey, I, you know, I confronted them with the truth. They decided to turn away. Maybe they're turning away is going to end them in a state that I was in where I got, you know, deep into a pit.
00:47:59
Speaker
And then the Lord pulled me out of that. right and And we we forget you know characters in the Bible like Joseph. It was years this dude was just getting crushed by his brothers, his life, ah you know the the the wrongful accusations, prison, and still in the midst of that, still glorifying God, still worshiping him, still calling him.
00:48:23
Speaker
the one and true God, right, that that knows even your dreams and then was able to, you know, be second in command in all of Egypt. I mean, it just, we forget these these things. And so it's just really helped peel back.
00:48:41
Speaker
the the worldliness that still was you know stuck to me, the fleshliness that I'm still, that I still wrestle with and and just show it in its apparentness, like in this stark reality. It's like, look, you're you're you're chasing numbers, man. Like that that's not helpful.
00:48:59
Speaker
That's not glorifying to me. Why don't you glorify me? And then and then my guests get better, you know, and then the conversations get better. And and there's just this effervescent quality that comes from that. And it's not me. And it's not even my guest. It's the Lord, right? It's the Lord, yeah. It's the Lord. So yeah, that I mean, that that really has been the the thing that that Leaders of Leaders has has helped me see And it's sanctifying, it's edifying, right? Yeah. One thing that that that came to mind in what you was expressing and is I think a lot of people get misconstrued of Philippians 4.13, but they don't look for the context. So I just want to read it real quick, and the Amplified version gives a little bit of an interpretation of it.
00:49:42
Speaker
Starting at verse 10 and it says, I rejoice greatly in the Lord that now at last you have renewed your concerns for me. Indeed, you were concerned about me before you had an opportunity to show it. Now that I speak from any personal need, for I have learned to be content and self-sufficient through Christ, satisfied to the point where I am not disturbed or uneasy,
00:50:05
Speaker
Regardless of my circumstances, I know how to get along and live humbly in difficult times. I also know how to enjoy abundance and live in prosperity. and any In any and every circumstance, I have learned the secret of face life facing life, whether well-fed or going hungry, whether having an abundance of being in need. Then it says, I can do all things through Christ.
00:50:31
Speaker
who do Christ who lost my spot. I could do all things which he has called me to do to Christ, him who strengthens and the empowers me to fulfill his purpose. I am self-sufficient in Christ's sufficiency. I am ready for anything an equal and equal in anything to him who infuses me with inner strength, confidence, and peace. So I always laugh because it's like, yeah, we want to use 413.
00:50:56
Speaker
But Paul is saying, you'll be satisfied when you know what it is to be hungry and still be satisfied. You know when and things go bad and still be satisfied. And his journey in acts, being overboard, right? yeah Being whipped and lashed and and and going through all these different things. Yeah. Man, that's that's just what it means just to be content and satisfied even when you think that you know things are just aren't making sense. And even the thing even how you started when you were you were quoting James and and the the building and the understanding of your faith through all that, those are amazing and needed skills, especially in this world that we live in. Because even even when we talk to people just defining faith, and let me just ask you this, if you were to give a practical explanation of what faith is to you, how would you express it to somebody?
Journey to Understanding Faith
00:51:52
Speaker
Yeah, so I used to I used to explain this with a little bit more reasonableness, if you will. ah Yeah, absolutely. That's what I'm looking for. Yeah. Yeah. So like, philosophically, logically, um ah you know, that that was kind of my, my approach, I i would I would look back on that and and see, okay, yeah, that that's that obviously that was God's grace that that brought me to the Lord. um and but it's But for some of us, we need that, and then but for others, it's it's you know that this childlike faith. um and And I realized that, man,
00:52:30
Speaker
i didn't I didn't have that childlike faith. i I was constantly asking questions, constantly skeptical. And so for me, it was when the reasonableness of the historicity of Jesus Christ's existence, death on a cross, resurrection, ah hit me, that hit me hard, right?
00:52:47
Speaker
ah the fact that you can't ground truth, objective morality, or anything like that. And when when the plausible outcome outweighed the denials that i that I had, that for me gave me a reasonable platform from which to step into faith in,
00:53:07
Speaker
really, you know, understanding that God is God and I am not right. I'm finite God is infinite, eternal, right in in knowing and power and being see self sufficient, right, as it said in that scripture in in Philippians four, which you just read, right, his sufficiency is enough. I don't need all of these logical, you know, structures and buttressing and all this stuff.
00:53:32
Speaker
However, it's it's true, and it's true because God is a logical God. but It's true because God is truth. right I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me. He's not saying that because he's kind of true, partially true. No, truth, big T, that's it, done. right And so that is where we can also have this childlike faith where it's like,
00:53:55
Speaker
i you know I dare you, it's it' sort of the Pascal's wager, right? I dare you to commit your entirety to Christ, which is faith as well, right? and yeah So complete and utter obedience, I'm giving my life to you, regardless of what happens. this It's you that I will pursue and you alone, right? Nothing else, right? I'm pursuing to you, God, the triune God. and And I'm telling you right now, like whether you do the childlike faith,
00:54:24
Speaker
where you just give it to God and it's and you can't you know you can't even see that next step. It's totally clouded, but you take a step anyways and you just, I'm gonna i'm just gonna own ah that this is god's this is God's to own.
00:54:41
Speaker
right, which is actually disowning your life and giving your life to God, letting go of the wheel. And ultimately, that's, that's really what I had to do. I was white knuckling, thinking that I could, I could logically reason my way to, ah to all that is God. Yeah, right. Like we, like Job, it's like,
00:55:00
Speaker
You know he's telling Joe like where where were you when I created yeah the the foundations of the earth where were you when I, you know, taught the the clouds to bring the snow, right where were you when I, you know, harnessed ah the behemoth right like you And you don't know, like, that's the thing that you need to know is that you don't know, right? um And so yeah, and so that's, that's essentially where I am now is like, I realize that all of that reasonable approach was helpful for me to take that step, but I still had to take that step into the into the unknown. And that is faith, right? And, and the thing is, what I realize now,
00:55:40
Speaker
is God guide guided those steps, right? i wanted to I wanted to be like, oh, that was all me. And i so I look back, it's like, yeah, right? Like all of the variables that were orchestrated to to bring about this prayer of death in combat is like,
00:55:56
Speaker
ridiculous if I thought I was somehow in control of even a percent of that, right? um Yes, I prayed the prayer. Yes, I was lost and needed to be found. yeah But, but yeah, that's, I mean, that's faith. And so I think philosophical approaches can be good, can be helpful. um I think historicity can be helpful. You know, logic, understanding logic, epistemology, the hermeneutics, all that stuff can be helpful. But ultimately,
00:56:26
Speaker
We need to own and understand that God is the creator and sustainer of all things yeah to include us. And we know next to nothing. The more I know, the more I realize that I don't know, right? The more I learn, the more I realize, oh, there's so much more that I have zero clue about. Absolutely. It's when I had that sophomoric knowledge, right? When I thought I got it, I figured it all out. I found the end. It's like, no.
00:56:56
Speaker
Yeah, i think you I think everything you said was spot on. The way that I just broke down faith, was I said it's it's a ah reason trust. Hebrews 11 kind of lays out why people have placed their their faith in God and therefore I call it the Hall of Faith because you have all these individuals that even though they didn't see things come to pass, ultimately we can place our reliability on theirs. I think it's an enduring process. Everything you said in James and connections to Romans 3.5, right? We rejoice in our suffering because it produces perseverance, character, and hope.
00:57:33
Speaker
and and And finally, it's an inherent foreknowledge. And I get that from Isaiah where we all have this desire to want to worship something. So if it's not God, it'll be money, it'll be you, it'll be all these other things. So why not place it all on the on at the throne of God who's willing to give us grace, mercy, and everything attached to it. And then just the last thing you said,
00:57:58
Speaker
There's nothing in life, and I came to this conclusion too, where in life, it comes to they've come There's a thing that we have to realize that there's nothing promised. There's a bunch of insecurities and uncertainties about the life that we live, even though we as human beings want answers right away. And that's the thing about placing your faith in God is you don't know. And it's important not to know because as if you have a relationship with Christ, then everything that you don't know he does and by placing your faith in him,
00:58:32
Speaker
it would eventually come and shape in a way that God can utilize it for your growth and development. So man, I wish we had ah more time to discuss, but I know you got to get going and then maybe we could do a part two to this. So man i'm
Conclusion and Contact Information
00:58:47
Speaker
yeah, it sounds good. So for those who are who are interested and and wanted to learn more and your podcasts and probably want to reach out to you, where can they find you? Lay out all the social media. Yeah, um, yeah, leaders of leaders.org is a, is an easy one. Um, Aaron at leaders of leaders.org. Uh, if you want to email me, um, you know, obviously I'm on, I'm on pod match. Uh, you could check out the podcast leaders of leaders podcasts. Um, you can now find it, uh, pretty, pretty easily before it was a little harder to find. Uh, that's the beauty of, of time and consistency. Uh, and then.
00:59:24
Speaker
discipled in Christ. So there is an app, ah you could download it on your iPhone, you could download it on your Android, discipled in Christ, everything is absolutely free. There's a 100 day course in there to take discipleship and build the habit of discipleship, turn the habit into a routine to turn the routine into a lifestyle, and then devote that lifestyle to the Lord. um It's called 100 in his strength.
00:59:49
Speaker
just sort of a ah play on 100% and 100 days. um Because if you do something for 100 days, you're going to do it for the rest of your life. You know, let's be honest, right? That's just how that works. um And ah yeah, and then and so disciple in Christ, you can download anywhere, find it anywhere, disciple in Christ.org, disciple in Christ.com. The dot.com is sort of like the the sort of salesy version, if you will, it kind of explains how churches can use that discipleship curriculum if they want to. um Whereas discipledinchrist.org is where you're going to find the courses. And there's like rites of passage courses for ah parents that are trying to raise kids in the Lord. And then there's 52 day ah children's devotional with my kids doing sign language and singing singing scripture ah memory. And yeah, there's all sorts of cool stuff in there that you can check out. So Yeah. Sounds a little great. I got to check out some of that stuff. All right. So if you don't mind, could you close that and pray for us? Yes. Lord, we just come before you humbly knowing that you are infinite, eternal, self-sufficient, the only one that is worthy of worship.
01:00:57
Speaker
um And we are finite. We are stumbling and bumbling and lisping to try to understand what it is that that we ought to do ah when really we ought to just give all of this to you. um Fully submit in your Lordship over our lives and and do all to the glory of of you. We commit this time to you. we We pray that it was edifying, that that it could maybe even change hearts, change minds so that they willingly submit um and give all of their life to you, Lord.
01:01:41
Speaker
Uh, we thank you so much. Thank you for Jonathan, uh, for giving me the opportunity. Um, Lord, may you bless Jonathan and the truth of the matter is podcasts. May you, um, bless it with those ah numbers as he continues to glorify you in all that he is doing with this podcast and and with his life. Um, Lord, we just give this all to you. We give this time to you. We we praise you. We thank you.
01:02:09
Speaker
um in jesus name amen amen
01:02:34
Speaker
In Jesus' name, amen.