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The Truth Of The Matter is Episode 192 : Special Guest - Ron and Marty Cooper
45 Plays1 month ago
“The truth of the matter is” podcast is all about providing an honest, contextual, historicized, Philosophical and Psychological view of the Bible through the use of Hermeneutics, while sharing some personal experiences from myself, Daniel and on occasion our special guest. We believe in sharing practical ways of applying God’s word to everyday life. Today I spoke with the first ever christian couple that appeared together on the show. It was an honor and privilege to speak to them both. Learning how they are different and also how they complement one another is something I believe we can learn from their marriage of 55 years so having them on was a treat. Tune in and see if you agree!
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Purpose
00:00:01
Speaker
Welcome to a special edition of the Truth For The Matters podcast. I'm your host, Jonathan, and I'm here with our was special guests. But before we introduce and welcome them inappropriately, let's be begin by recognizing and appreciating all our new and consistent listeners.
00:00:21
Speaker
We thank you in advance for continuing to press play at your own convenience. Now, if this is your first time listening to the Truth in the Matters podcast, we want you to know that it's all about providing an honest, contextual, historized, philosophical, and psychological view of the Bible through the use of hermeneutics while sharing some personal experiences with myself, Daniel, and on occasion, our special guest.
00:00:42
Speaker
We believe in sharing practical ways of applying God's word to everyday life. And we hope after today, you will hear our guests and their testimony and how an encounter with Jesus Christ will guarantee that your life will not be
Guest Introduction: Ron and Marty Cooper
00:00:59
Speaker
the same. So without further ado, I want to welcome in Ron and Marty Cooper. are you doing today? today Great, Jonathan. Just great to be with you and your audience.
00:01:08
Speaker
Thank you, Jonathan, for having us. Yeah, so this is unique because this is the first time I've actually had a Christian couple on the podcast. So I'm really interested to see how this is going to turn out. And I appreciate your vulnerability and your desire to actually be guests on my show.
00:01:25
Speaker
So I think the first thing I want to ask is looking back at last week for both of you, what are one or two ways you believe the Lord has blessed you? Normally on our podcast, we like to do that. We like to reflect over the week.
00:01:38
Speaker
and see what is one of two ways that God has blessed us throughout the week in some capacity.
00:01:45
Speaker
Thank you, Jonathan. I'll start out and it's possible I'll do more talking than Marty, but that is only because of personality. But over the last week, one of those very significant events was September seventh when Marty and I celebrated our 55th wedding anniversary. And so we've been together 55 years and Marty, thank you for acknowledging yes, saying yes to me and completing my life. It was
Celebrating Milestones and Symbolism
00:02:15
Speaker
at a time, Jonathan, when we chose to commit to each other. And just very briefly, we chose to get married at 6.30 PM on a Saturday ah evening.
00:02:27
Speaker
We did that because the hour hand and the minute hand were on the upswing. I call them upticks. And i will say our married life has been comprised more of upticks than downticks, but both.
00:02:45
Speaker
And so that just symbolizes what our marriage has been. But the another aspect is we have gotten sometimes good news, sometimes encouragement comes to me in small chunks. And sometimes that's as a matter of conversation, little tidbits of information.
00:03:07
Speaker
And we got some tidbits of good news. Um, and we're ah in a longterm project of selling our home here, building in another place. I use the expression, we have 40 plates spinning on each hand, but that's somewhat of a long answer of how did the Lord work in our life over the last week or so. But Marty, that's that's me. What about you?
00:03:28
Speaker
i agree with you. we The small wins, thinking that, oh, this is not going to work. and And this is in... in relation to our building in Cambridge, Maryland.
00:03:39
Speaker
And just a small, a small little win that, well, it won't be costing us anything to do this particular thing. So just praising God for the little things.
00:03:52
Speaker
But I'll add to that as recently as yesterday morning breakfast, we're mentoring a college student at East Carolina university and various things are happening in his life and I think we're making some inroads. So that's the Lord ah working his wisdom through us and helping him through various life challenges. So it's just a great life, Jonathan.
00:04:17
Speaker
Okay, sounds
Daily Routines and Spiritual Practices
00:04:18
Speaker
great. So one other question before we dive into learning a little bit more about you, and we first and foremost, we pray. What can you say is a morning routine that you both do that you enjoy every single morning? Thank you for asking that.
00:04:33
Speaker
I will tell you that Marty and i both have what I consider the luxury of studying scripture together. We are morning people, so getting up early is just a part of our routine.
00:04:47
Speaker
But there were times that Marty got up at 2.30 a.m. to leave the house at 4, 4.15 to be at work at 6, to say that we were going to get up ah maybe an hour and a half earlier to study scripture together, well, that's just not...
00:05:06
Speaker
ah not something that was real appealing. Now we have the luxury of we're normally up at 5 a.m. m and we study Scripture individually, and then we get together to compare our thoughts about Scripture.
00:05:20
Speaker
And that is a routine that we have both enjoyed to work into. But I will say we have the luxury of that. And I understand those who are working.
00:05:32
Speaker
ah Marty and I have made the transition from the normal working job to being self-employed. And we love it. I use the word transition. I'll never use the word retirement.
00:05:44
Speaker
But Marty, that's me. What about you? What I like about it is we have, we can read the same scripture and have a different opinion or and a different opinion or a different thought about it.
00:05:57
Speaker
And that's really part of growth. That's great because that's exactly how I started one of my segments. it's called Bible study reflection solo with friends.
00:06:08
Speaker
And it started with me actually sitting down, having a Bible study with a friend. What we would do is we would read two or three chapters. We'll take this is once a week. We'll read two or three chapters individually.
00:06:20
Speaker
will come together and we'll fellowship with one another, which is like a form of church. And we'll talk and see what we believe God has revealed. And we'll learn a lot more now that we've gathered together. And, you know, scripture says anytime two or three are gathered there, he is in the midst.
00:06:34
Speaker
So that's actually beautiful because I do that actually weekly with two separate friends that I have where we do that. So it's always good to see how, you know, you get to see how, what God is revealing to someone else and maybe given a different perspective you didn't actually consider upon coming together and talking.
00:06:52
Speaker
So, yeah. Yes, I'll tell you, Jonathan, that Marty's and my personalities are very different. We're two very different people, but I believe in complementary ways.
00:07:03
Speaker
It's happened more than a bunch of times that I will come in to Marty, well, what scripture did you read? and du ah and That just seems totally different from my take of what what was was the same scripture.
00:07:17
Speaker
And it is a matter of perspective that she... let's just say locked onto or had insights into a part of scripture.
00:07:27
Speaker
I did not. And I thought, oh my goodness, I never even thought about that. I'll just tell you very briefly, Marty understands relationships far better than I do. When it comes to biblical relationships or family relationships, I got to turn to Marty and say, okay, well, walk me through all of this. And so that's just a couple of ways how we complement each other.
00:07:48
Speaker
Jonathan, I want to say, you know, run is, if you're familiar with the the personalities, run is a D, and in a good way, dominant type.
00:08:00
Speaker
And I'm the S, the supportive. So I think sometimes I look at scripture through an emotional view. Okay. Okay.
00:08:11
Speaker
I see where you're coming from, right? You sort of look at things from a much more compassionate, a much more understanding point of view. And there's scriptures that I see that lens doing. You you kind of miss it because you you're so into trying to look at things from either like an overhead point of view, and you missed the little detailed portions of that.
00:08:32
Speaker
So there is a verse that comes to mind, but I'll bring it up later on and and in the conversation. so First and foremost, we'll pray and then we'll get started. So and if anyone's listening to Baez, close your eyes or pull over and take the time to get into this prayer with us. Heavenly Father, Lord, in the name of Jesus, we want to thank you so much for this opportunity that you've given us to fellowship with one another.
00:08:54
Speaker
Lord, you said anytime two or three are gathered, there you are in the midst. So we appreciate the time Marty and Ron, the time they set aside to have this conversation. All those who are listening, I bless and I ask that all eyes are open, all ears are listening, all minds are open to the perspective of something maybe different.
00:09:13
Speaker
All hearts are ready to receive what it is that God has poured out to these two individuals in their marriage and how it could benefit others. Lord, we know that we don't grow in isolation, we grow in community.
00:09:25
Speaker
And we know that the Trinity is part of the community that you established that gives us an understanding that this commitment of marriage is something that shouldn't be overlooked, but something should be embraced and to understand.
00:09:37
Speaker
So I pray that what is shared today can open up the eyes of those who are looking to get married. What is shared today could open up the perspective that you could be two different people and still working, condescend of one another to help support, to help break through what it is that maybe we don't necessarily understand, but as one we do, right? When two flesh come together as one, there's so much that can be learned. There's so much that you're learning about one another.
00:10:04
Speaker
that we don't necessarily get as separate individuals. So Lord, I pray and I thank you for this opportunity. I'm grateful. I'm appreciative. And I hope all of those are listening, learn and have a different perspective on what they have to share today.
00:10:19
Speaker
They're both men and women of God. And we appreciate men and and women of God, especially in the context of marriage and how the world has different perspectives and points of views. But I pray that through this conversation,
00:10:31
Speaker
will have a different perspective on marriage and what it means to be married exactly for 55 years. So Lord, we say these things with surety and in honesty. In Jesus name we pray. Amen.
00:10:43
Speaker
Amen.
Early Life and Finding Passions
00:10:45
Speaker
So I guess the first question that I want to ask, at least from from both of you separately, is when you were looking over your life growing up from middle school into high school into college, what were you both passionate about and what did you see yourself doing?
00:11:04
Speaker
I'll start out, Jonathan, by saying at an early age, preteen, I wanted to be a good leader, and there was just something about it. and I know at the time I wouldn't be able to explain exactly what it was about leadership, but it was, i think, a personal relationship that inspired me to want to know and learn more about leadership.
00:11:31
Speaker
But as I look back on my early life, I know there were things said too about, it's just conversation, and I'm not here to blame anyone, but I did not think very much of myself. I used to think I was dumb, stupid, not capable of learning, probably this aspiration of wanting to be a leader. That's just some kind of a foreign dream.
00:11:55
Speaker
And what ended up happening is four men became very instrumental in my life and they functioned, not formally assigned, but they were mentors in my life.
00:12:07
Speaker
My grandfather, my uncle, my high school football coach, and Marty's dad each functioned in a way that I needed to help me overcome what was in hindsight, very low confidence and I had a very low self-image, very low self-worth, and all of that transformed itself into what I hope people would say is a positive, healthy self-image.
00:12:37
Speaker
What used to be a very negative self-image, and it had to do with mental health. I i've had some pretty nasty thinking habits, but that I was able to overcome and i want to pass that on to others, pass that on meaning the mentorship that you can overcome ah in life, whatever the negative is that our adversary wants you to believe about yourself.
00:13:06
Speaker
Then there are a lot of scriptures that I use to support that, but Marty and I have each overcome various aspects of our lives. But Marty, what about you? I grew up on a farm in Indiana and um I don't think I really understood, you know, what do I want to do when I graduate from high school? Where do I want to go? And I thought it was business.
00:13:29
Speaker
So I did go to a business college, but didn't make it. I flunked out. So, you know, that was my first experience. Hey, i'm not as I may not be as smart as I think.
00:13:42
Speaker
But my uncle believed in me, and I i didn't understand it at at the time. And now I understand more just how he believed in me and wanted more for me.
00:13:54
Speaker
So they helped me. They lived in Fort Wayne, my aunt and uncle, and they helped me And I have to say, it was forty years old I was 40 years old before I really found my my niche.
00:14:07
Speaker
I think traveling with Ron through the Air Force and just learning a lot about myself when he went off to Vietnam, and i i had to i had to grow up.
00:14:20
Speaker
But at 40, I found my niche, and I thoroughly enjoyed my career because it was what I liked. And I think if you can find what you really like doing, that's that's great. You may have to have a mentor. You have to have someone help you think through that. But I did, and I had a great career.
00:14:41
Speaker
And I had Ron's support, too. Jonathan, I'll interject that if if our listeners think about a triangle, God at the top of the triangle, and each of us at the legs of the triangle, as we each focus on God, we naturally grow together.
Faith and Relationship Growth
00:15:00
Speaker
That's exactly how Marty and I ah grew together. We were at a very infant stage in our growth and our Lord's But together we have grown together. And as we focus on God, you will grow together. And so that is what brought us through a lot of the down times. And but as I said earlier, our upticks have exceeded the downticks. And ah we have heard couples say, oh, I could never be in business with my spouse because i will tell you that, yes, Marty and I work through our differences and
00:15:37
Speaker
Uh, she mentioned personalities. I am a dominant task oriented kind of person where Marty is a relationship kind of person. And so for me, i can have a list of things I need to do. I want to do.
00:15:54
Speaker
And Marty will say, well, you need to focus. And, and so that's just a little bit tiny look under the tent of some of our differences. So speaking of how you guys got together, how'd you meet?
00:16:09
Speaker
That's an interesting story right there. I went to and was accepted at the Indiana Institute of Technology in Fort Wayne. Marty worked in the bookstore.
00:16:20
Speaker
I too was raised on a farm, as Marty was, and a dairy farm. And as it turns out, my entire summer earnings on the farm Marty put into the cash register within literally a few seconds of my buying books and so forth, getting ready for college.
00:16:38
Speaker
And so I thought, Oh my golly, it's a, and she was then and still is a good looker. And I was like, Oh, I think I'd like to ah learn a little bit more about her. So I made excuses to go to the bookstore. I would pretend to look at the books and so forth. But my whole reason, Jonathan, for going to the bookstore was to see Marty.
00:17:00
Speaker
And I'm the kind of guy that it took me 18 months to gather the courage to ask Marty for our first date because I didn't want to be rejected yet another time on a date.
00:17:12
Speaker
And so I asked her for a date. She accepted. And here we are 57 years later as friends, and we've been married 55 years. So that was how our relationship got started. I i wanted to see her in the bookstore. And so...
00:17:30
Speaker
ah She accepted. But Marty, but did you say anything useful about me early on? I want to say he found out I had a car. So that was transportation. so Oh, OK. Let's get let's let's get right down to the to the truth. of Yeah.
00:17:45
Speaker
Then it didn't take him too long to finally ask me out. No. When I first saw him, i learned that he had a vision for himself and he was bound determined to graduate from college and do something with himself. And so I was really impressed with that.
00:18:05
Speaker
um And I tell him too, I liked his dimples. So, you know, that helped. But and he was ah very, very kind. And I knew he was smart. In fact, I have to tell you, my dad met him.
00:18:19
Speaker
And one time I went back home to Marion and my dad says, don't let this one go because he's smart. so And you need to keep up with him. If you marry him, you need to keep up with him.
00:18:31
Speaker
So it was just a lot of ah positive things that I saw in him. Okay. So at the time, did you both know Christ or Christ wasn't really a ah part of the relationship separately?
00:18:45
Speaker
I'm sorry. I grew up Quaker and I accepted Christ when I was nine years old and run. Um, the Lord blessed us just in time. You know, you were not supposed to be unequally yoked.
00:18:59
Speaker
So Ron, you can tell the story. Well, we did some missionary dating. I was not saved. I was raised in a Methodist church and i was religious, but I did not have relationship with our Lord in ah September.
00:19:15
Speaker
I mean, August 28th, I'm sorry, August 25th, 1968. I am in the right seat of a light blue GMC truck and with Marty's dad.
00:19:28
Speaker
And we're in Northbound on Interstate 81. And it was at that time I said, you know, I'm not exactly sure what this is, but I want what Joe has. Joe was Marty's dad, that he knew his Lord and Savior and It was a very simple prayer, Jonathan. i ah It was, I want to accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior. I knew i had been saved, but at that point I didn't know what it was. didn't know I couldn't explain it much to anybody other than i am, but it was through ah Marty's dad's influence primarily that I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior. So I say I transferred from being religious
00:20:11
Speaker
to ah having a relationship with our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. And it's that relationship that has been totally wholesome, fulfilling to me. And now I can explain it to other people just what it is. But it took many years for me to study Scripture and to to a degree, unlearn ah my past and to relearn what Scripture was saying.
00:20:35
Speaker
And I want to say a week later, we were married. So wow we were in God's will. Yeah. So we we were each saved ah at on September 7, 1968, albeit I just had my back at the entry door, so to speak. I i didn't know much of anything about scripture.
00:20:56
Speaker
Okay. Okay. So then along the way, when it came to studying scripture, you had mentors that led you to to do it? Or so how does your development with the Lord come about as you got married?
00:21:09
Speaker
Yeah. I'll start out that first year. we He was a senior at Virginia Tech, our first year of marriage. And we studied the Bible then together. And I think we grew a lot during that time.
00:21:26
Speaker
And then I'm going to say through all of our challenges, you know, with him being in the Air Force and going to Vietnam, um my growth growth And his growth.
00:21:38
Speaker
I had, I just trusted God that he would take care of Ron. He was, he flew the F-4. So I felt like, hey, Ron was the best pilot the Air Force had.
00:21:49
Speaker
So I knew God would take care of him. And I just had to, you know, that, that faith. So I think through all of our moves and everything, we, we have grown together.
Marriage and Faith Values
00:22:01
Speaker
ah We have, and I'll tell you as the family leader and for our listeners, I hope you don't misunderstand that it's that as being the leader of the family, that is not a dictatorial dominating role.
00:22:16
Speaker
It's God's design for me. And I thought, oh my how do i how do I do that? How can I be a leader of the family? when I don't know Scripture very well. And quite honestly, i felt Marty knew Scripture much better than I did.
00:22:31
Speaker
But how can I lead my family in Scripture when I don't know how to do that? And I studied Scripture. i did have mentors. Marty's dad was one of the principal mentors in my life.
00:22:43
Speaker
We did have Bible study. And it was through that, Jonathan, and through time that we learned together. Together is a very, very operative term for Marty and me, together.
00:22:55
Speaker
And of course the Lord leading us, but together I refer to Marty affectionately as my home Holy Spirit, lowercase, but she's the voice of the Holy Spirit in the in our house. And, but we have grown together with that and we've learned together and Jesus Christ, our Lord and savior is at the top of the triangle.
00:23:17
Speaker
Every day we wanna grow closer to Him, and when we do, we grow closer to each other. And it's Bible studies, the insights of Scripture, comparing notes, and as we pass forward our learning,
00:23:32
Speaker
we are continuously learning how to share Christ in effective way with others. So that's somewhat of a long answer of how we have grown together starting out at as infants in Christ.
00:23:48
Speaker
No, that's that's very, you know, inspirational because, you know, at least in my day and age now, people tend to want to they call it bringing something to bring something to the table. That means establishing yourself and then bringing who you are what you become into potential relationship.
00:24:08
Speaker
But hearing what it is that you both went through is you grew together. You supported, you loved one another, you shared tough times, good times, whatever you had to go through.
00:24:19
Speaker
It was a process. And I think at least in the new age now, it's more of what do you bring to the table for the relationship rather than let's grow together, let's build together.
00:24:31
Speaker
And that's why you have some marriages that start off 18 years old each and then you have some marriages that are in their 30s, late 40s because people either sleeping around doing different things before they commit or they're either wanting to start young and then finding a way to work things together.
00:24:49
Speaker
Not everybody, at least in my youth, wants to do that because if if you want people start to want to do that, then they end up divorcing before they even get to that place of trying to be comfortable with one another.
00:25:01
Speaker
So here's an interesting question, and I was eager to ask you this question. when a gun When it comes to how God communicates to both of you, in scripture, it spoke about how God talked to Abraham.
00:25:14
Speaker
And then later it says that God spoke to Sarah and it was complimentary in the sense that this is how God communicated. Over in your marriage and life, has there ever been a time when God communicated to one and not to the other, or it's always been in sync, that you both felt God communicated you communicated with you both separately, and it was definitely on the same page?
00:25:39
Speaker
I don't think I can think of a time when i felt God spoke to me and not to Marty or vice versa, and It is, i would say that as we have studied Scripture together, as we have wanted to learn what God is saying to us, ah I'm going to refer to one verse, actually two portions of Scripture now, that has is and a very operative part of our life.
00:26:09
Speaker
Numbers 14 talks about... the Lord saying that your sins will visit the third and fourth generations. I'm not focusing on the sins so much as what you do will visit the third and and fourth generations.
00:26:26
Speaker
In Galatians, it talks about the fruit of the spirit and how we reap what we sow. A very oft ah quoted scripture But ah what we reap what we sow.
00:26:40
Speaker
we sow we ah the soap If we sow the negative, we reap the negative. if we But if we sow the positive, we will reap the positive.
00:26:50
Speaker
And so as Marty and I have studied Scripture together, we have... ask the lord does how do we how do we get through in a ah part of our life is overcoming adversity how do we make it through this and i know with certainty the lord will not allow us to go through anything of which He will not bring us through, he bring us through it or around it.
00:27:17
Speaker
And so ah the Lord has spoken to me and my personality that, no, Ron, you can, you can, you be the leader that I equip you to be and you can overcome But don't be dictatorial to Marty and because she's a very relationship-oriented person.
00:27:38
Speaker
And um those are just some of the things the Lord has spoken to me. But Marty, how about from your perspective? Mine is, if I have the peace, say we have a situation that we're coming up against and it is a little troublesome to me and we need an answer. If I have a peace from the Lord, then I i i know that we are following him in his direction.
00:28:04
Speaker
Not too long ago, we were having a meeting with the planning and zoning people, and we didn't know how the outcome was going to come along. And I read the verse where I will go before you.
00:28:17
Speaker
And so I just started praying, Lord, go before us and help us, show us. And he answered that in a mighty way. So when I am um concerned about something, I will repeat scripture.
00:28:34
Speaker
And i often repeat the one just today, but my devotion was on adversity. And ah ah the one in, i believe it's Lamentations, I will hold you with my right hand.
00:28:50
Speaker
So then when I know that I am repeating scripture, I know that God promises these things and he will he will protect us. He will show us the way.
00:29:03
Speaker
and let me I'm going to interject here, ah Jonathan. I can be what i consider a nuts and bolts kind of person. That is, just give me the facts, Lord. And so what I will do is I'll compare my nuts and bolts approach. I use that term.
00:29:19
Speaker
But I've ah prayed to Lord, Lord, give me wisdom to know all the facts, factors to make an informed decision. But then I'll go to Marty and just say, cool Marty, here's here's what I feel the Lord is telling me And ah now you pray about it. Do you have a peace about that?
00:29:38
Speaker
And that's how the Lord speaks to each one of us in, I would call it different yet complementary terms. ah that makes That makes a lot of sense. I appreciate what you're saying.
Communication and Conflict Resolution
00:29:50
Speaker
So something along the line, how do you both deal with conflicts between one another? Confidence, I will tell you again, i ah I lacked confidence in an early age and did not have it because I had a very low self-image. in But i through the ah the four mentors that I mentioned, I have developed what i hope others would say is a healthy self-confidence.
00:30:17
Speaker
And that's one of the things we try to emphasize, Jonathan, with our listeners to develop a healthy self-confidence and m when we have a healthy self-confidence that's based on the Lord, that is, Lord, equip me through the Holy Spirit with the wisdom to make good decisions, our confidence being based on Scripture and the the Scripture being that when when we are surrendered to our Lord,
00:30:45
Speaker
He will work through us. He will provide us the wisdom we need when we are surrendered. And that's hopefully not just a term, but when we say we're totally surrendered, we give it all to the Lord that, uh, I am, ah just not capable Lord without your wisdom, you equip me,
00:31:05
Speaker
but In the morning, I frequently, figuratively, literally tell the Lord, take me apart, clean up the rusty parts, but reassemble me at the end of my devotional time to make me a better person.
00:31:18
Speaker
So with that, that's how I try to start out each day, Jonathan, to have the Lord speak to me that way. And ah and when I end the devotional time,
00:31:30
Speaker
And I'm talking with Marty. i I feel as if I can approach the day with a lot of confidence. But Marty, that's me and my personality. How about you? i want to ask you, do you mean confidence in ourselves or confidence in each other?
00:31:44
Speaker
Confidence in each other. In each other. Yeah, that's what I thought. ah My confidence and in him is knowing that he is asking the Lord to direct us in in the right way.
00:31:59
Speaker
just the other day, and I think some of this is due to good communication between each other. There was a situation and sometimes we don't want to really tell the underneath really issue yeah that's bothering us because we don't want to offend or our partner.
00:32:22
Speaker
So this issue was something that I didn't know how to say, okay, Ron, this is this is really what's bothering me. And he just all of a sudden said, is the issue the fact you think I am going to renege on?
00:32:39
Speaker
And I thought, oh, Lord, that's so true. So how do I... um approach him and say, that's it. You know, little little concerned, but I just said, Ron, you're right.
00:32:52
Speaker
And what freedom there was and between the two of us that I could constantly say to him, that's my real issue.
00:33:04
Speaker
I'll add to that, Jonathan, now that but we had again, ah here's Marty. yeah What Jonathan really was asking to you is, And so, yes, from that conversation, we need to represent between the two of us what I call a safe space.
00:33:22
Speaker
Can we safely talk with each other ah about this? Can we at the appropriate time and my personality is one, I'm a problem solver.
00:33:33
Speaker
And there are many times Marty will say, all I want you to is listen to me. I don't want you to try to solve a problem. but you just listen to me. But then as I listen to her, I may ask her that question. And now do we have the confidence in each other that we can just share from our hope? It's exposing ourselves to a degree, but it's exposing the truth, our our most fundamental feelings.
00:34:01
Speaker
Can we do that with each other and not feel less about each other? but rather, okay, thank you for sharing. And now that I know what is bothering you, now that I know what is at the core issue of your heart, let's address that.
00:34:16
Speaker
And i don't think any less of her. I just, in some ways, I know to expect that possibility. And so it's a matter of us, I think for us, it's that connected relationship,
00:34:30
Speaker
always being able to talk through and talk with each other in relationship at the very core fundamental aspect is our relationship with our Lord. And I feel the Lord is saying, Ron, you do whatever you have to do to work it out with Marty.
00:34:45
Speaker
ah So what about issues like conflict? What are some of the things you can express that can help people and marriage that go through conflict? How do you come to a resolution where you still respect one another? You may be at odds in how you feel about something, but you can still arrive at a decision that still the respect is intact.
00:35:08
Speaker
Because you know that can sort of flare up and cause a lot of issues. What are things over the years that you've exercised and done that has allowed things to still remain peaceful? No, that's a very, very important question. And Marty and i I suspect you're going to have ah two different approaches to this.
00:35:27
Speaker
One is I'll start out by saying i can confront ah more easily than Marty. And whether I'm confronting Marty, whether I'm confronting other people, I have the ability to do that ah more easily than Marty does.
00:35:44
Speaker
Now, there will be times when Marty will tell me, and actually i want to try to discern this because and there are many times Marty doesn't want to have to tell me, now is not the right time.
00:35:56
Speaker
And so confront. I will pray about the right timing, my attitude, and the setting. Everything needs to be right.
00:36:08
Speaker
And so right now may not be the best time to confront. And what I mean by confront, too many people sometimes think that's being combative, argumentative.
00:36:18
Speaker
No, I'm just going to bring up the topic. Can we resolve this? And there's a, I do believe the right timing, the right attitude. When everything is right, we can openly discuss this and the right attitude means can we work through this without this resulting in a, you know, downright argumentative fist fight, figurative fist fight, but, and that has to do with timing, but it's all about relationship. And so Marty, that's my nuts and bolts perspective. What about yours?
00:36:53
Speaker
Right. I agree. there i mean i have failed ah that many times. And, you know, I've thought it and then I let the mouth ah do the talking, which has not been right.
00:37:06
Speaker
So i have finally learned after all these years, Lord, when is the right time? And also, i have so ah started or I have in the past, am I really seeing things the way you want me to see them, Lord?
00:37:23
Speaker
If I'm wrong, then just keep me just let it pass and we won't talk about it. But if I am right in some way, let's pick the help me pick the right time to talk about it.
00:37:36
Speaker
Okay, so in this day and age, what seems to be promoted very high is Christian counseling before and after marriage. What are your thoughts of counseling? Do you think it's something that should happen? Do you think it's something that should continue once married? What are your thoughts on counseling if you ever indulged in counseling?
00:37:58
Speaker
We do. We do believe in counseling Marty mardi I mentor, counsel, coach others, in we want to pass forward those things we have learned.
00:38:10
Speaker
ah We are being coached right now. So there are others who, with whom we believe there are those that ah we know those who have something to offer in our lives.
00:38:24
Speaker
But there are different approaches, different personalities to ah coaching. So you want to find the right person that can bring you through whatever.
00:38:35
Speaker
But there's one aspect to this, Jonathan, I would say that some people tend to isolate. And I would say in aviation terms, don't go solo. Don't do that.
00:38:47
Speaker
Find somebody that agrees with you, loves you, maybe wants to promote you even more than you want to promote yourself. That is believes in you, wants to advance you.
00:38:58
Speaker
Work with that person. And when they have the right attitude that they want to advance you, they believe in you, partner with that person. And it's very possible they can help you overcome any attitudes you may have that hold you back.
00:39:15
Speaker
But ah it's so it's an attitude and COVID to a degree has caused some of us to seek isolation. And that's we have found to be one of the worst things that can happen. There are people who want to help you through whatever it is you're experiencing.
00:39:34
Speaker
And when they have you in mind, they want to advance you and bring out the very best in you. We will do that. Marty, what are your thoughts about it? I agree.
00:39:44
Speaker
You want to believe in yourself and have confidence in yourself. So now when you're talking about a couple that's looking to get married, I do feel that they should go through some type of coaching.
00:39:58
Speaker
And I know pastors offer that. And there are other people, good Christian couples that that offer that. But the one thing i like to ask the couple to do, you have an idea of who you want to marry and spend the rest of your life with.
00:40:15
Speaker
So I break our don't request. I ask the couples to put right down what they want in a mate, the character, the values, the personality,
00:40:31
Speaker
um how they deal with relationships, how they deal with finances, just everything that you want in a life mate. And if that if you're going with someone and that that doesn't match up, then that's not the right person.
00:40:49
Speaker
But I just feel like it's we've known of other couples that have made that list and it has worked out. And I'll interject, Jonathan, Marty, and i have put together 10 course relationship course.
00:41:04
Speaker
And at the core of that is know the character qualities of the person you want to relate with. And then we also have what we call a red flag questionnaire. and Very simple, yes, no.
00:41:16
Speaker
45 questions and there are questions about can you talk with each other without arguing type thing. That's just one example. m if there are six or more yeses to that, that's ah maybe approaching a red flag. You two need to work through whatever it is you're working through.
00:41:34
Speaker
There could be some topics that you just cannot talk about without it resulting in an argument. And so those are some of the things you want to discuss before you enter a relationship that may end up in a divorce, which then may just ah result in some other negative aspects. But coaching and counseling, yes, we're a firm believer in that.
00:41:59
Speaker
Okay. So there's something that crossed my mind. i was having this conversation with somebody yesterday and and i said to them that the interesting thing about life is that in a human condition, it's full of insecurities and uncertainties.
00:42:14
Speaker
And I was explaining to them that the three things that I think we all deal with as human beings is that we're lacking information. We don't always have all the information there. Life is very unpredictable. right We don't know when certain things are going to come up.
00:42:28
Speaker
And now we're all aware of our immortality. Right. But we're all aware that eventually we're going to pass away. Right. were Eventually more mortality that's immortality. Mortality. we're going to eventually pass away. When you think about looking for a partner and wanting to be with a partner and taking the time to get to know that partner.
00:42:45
Speaker
Has there ever been times that you were fearful or scared entering your marriage where you feel like this person would change, right? Because sometimes people say circumstances, ah having the children, you know, potentially losing a job can force a change in a person's life and they don't become, they become somebody completely different and it not consistent with who you've gotten to know over the years or even the months and times leading up to it.
00:43:11
Speaker
Were you ever concerned that either one of you will change or you felt and believed that the Holy Spirit that was inside that person, that they will remain intact and be more of the person you know rather than the person that you don't know?
00:43:26
Speaker
I don't think you can ever enter a permanent relationship with 100% assurance. You may be there with 95, 92, whatever percent. But if you enter at that, let's just call it 92, 95% level, there's a the foundational commitment. And now we're talking about what are the foundational values on which you base your relationship? Are we committed to each other?
00:43:55
Speaker
What are those core values? I'll never lie to you. I'll never lie to Marty. m I will be honest with you, but in that context, Jonathan, it's incumbent on us, and this is the foundational aspects of our relationship course, that we know the core values of the person.
00:44:13
Speaker
That yes, personalities can change and There's different things about us. Yes, the exterior is going to change with age, but those core values remain the same.
00:44:24
Speaker
And if those core values are based on scriptural principles, then we can enter a lifetime relationship. And I'll just say, Marty and I have committed in our marriage vows till death do us part. We're committed to each other. It's not, well, let's try it, see how it works. And if it doesn't, let's dispose of each other and you know go through more. No, we committed to a lifetime relationship.
00:44:49
Speaker
And so we have grown through various challenges in our life. And as I mentioned at the very beginning, the upticks have exceeded the downticks, but we have experienced the downticks.
00:45:02
Speaker
The downtakes meaning, okay, Marty, how are we going to work through this? And together, let's work through this. And yes, but Marty and I don't want the listeners to think that we've got such a model marriage, we never argue. No, we've we've been through them.
00:45:17
Speaker
But our arguments might last 17 minutes at the most until eventually somebody says something, does something, it causes a smile, and then it ends up in what I call a huggy-poo.
00:45:31
Speaker
And I don't want our listeners to think that we have such a model, Mary's, that we don't argue and so forth. Yeah, we can have some pretty strong arguments. But they they're not the ones that, well, I don't know if this marriage is going to last or not. we'll just We will work through this. And so I'm going to say, Jonathan, that's a committed, connected relationship that we have with each other centered around our connected relationships.
00:46:00
Speaker
continuous, committed relationship to our Lord. That's at the core value of it all. And Marty's and my relationship with each other grows from our relationship with our Lord.
00:46:11
Speaker
that I hope that's not a trite expression to our listeners, but that is everything about us. ah I can tell a personal story ah about um a ah situation and and I've shared it with Ron, so it it won't be a surprise. He'll probably forget, but that's okay. We'll surprise him again.
00:46:30
Speaker
But anyway, when Ron went off to Vietnam um and came back, no, it was when we met on R&R in Hawaii and our daughter was almost two years old.
Coping with Change and Separation
00:46:44
Speaker
I saw a difference in him and I can't explain the difference. it He just wasn't the person that left. There was a little bit of a personality.
00:46:57
Speaker
And so I came back and I thought, Lord, how can I deal with this? If this is what comes back, how am I going to deal with this? And i definitely didn't want a divorce or anything like that because I can't do that to Joanne, our daughter.
00:47:16
Speaker
So ah when he did come back, it was a little bit different. But over time, the ah the the man I married, that personality came back.
00:47:28
Speaker
But it was through it was through prayer and determination and commitment that we were I was going to work through it. Yeah. So let me ask you this, Ron, because i um I wanted to ask you this at the beginning, but we've been having a good conversation or centered around this.
00:47:42
Speaker
What made you want to do the Air Force? Like, what was it about that that made you want to do that? Because that's very risky. You may not make it back. Like, what was your what was he yeah what was your main compassion for wanting to be such a risky thing? Like, what was it about that?
00:48:00
Speaker
I never thought of it as a risk. I was at Andrews Air Force Base in Maryland when I saw that then the Thunderbirds in an air show, and I thought, oh my gosh, I was just um became fascinated with what I saw, but I also became, some people may think of it as obsessed with a goal,
00:48:22
Speaker
Whatever it takes, that is what I want to do. That being flying. And I thought at the time, Jonathan, and this relates to confidence, I'm not going to tell anybody I want to fly because I don't want people to tell me, no, you could never do that. that you You can't for whatever reason.
00:48:39
Speaker
But I thought I'm going to do whatever it takes to do that. So I got an aerospace engineering degree, thought I had to have the aerospace engineering engineering degree to fly and come to find out bread makers fly airplanes. So, gosh, I didn't need to put myself through that.
00:48:54
Speaker
But I wanted to be, and Marty alluded to it, and there's no arrogance in what I'm saying. I just had confidence in myself, and it that confidence grew from no confidence early on to a ah ah bold confidence, and hopefully it's ah a healthy confidence.
00:49:13
Speaker
But I had the attitude that nobody is going to shoot me down. I will bring this airplane back. And there's a lot of those kinds of attitudes, Jonathan. it was, i had the confidence that, nope. um And I um i did not ah did not have to eject from the airplane. So we say that ah the the number of takeoffs equals number of landings.
00:49:36
Speaker
I never gave it a thought about possibly being shot down to the risk of it. No, I just enjoyed flying. I mean, it was It was almost like paradise. If I could use that somewhat trite expression, we would say frequently, I can't believe I'm being paid to enjoy what I'm doing. And I i love flying then.
00:49:57
Speaker
i know i would love flying now. I'm not flying at the moment. But it was just it was a passionate desire and it all came about and everything came together. Jonathan, I never gave it a thought. There's no risk in this man. This it's all enjoyment. That's what I want to do.
00:50:14
Speaker
And so that was my passionate desire at the time as I'm pursuing other passionate desires. The Lord is leading Marty and I are together through right now. So here's an interesting question for both you.
00:50:28
Speaker
When you're separate, how do you manage? And then when you come back together, is it like you never left it? So like I'm saying, when you go out and you fly, you're gone a little while, Marty, how do you handle it?
00:50:41
Speaker
Ron, how do you handle it? And then when you come back together, is the feeling of separation a positive thing, a negative thing? Like what are some of the emotional roller coasters that you go through?
00:50:52
Speaker
when you're separating your back together and you're separating your back together, that process.
00:50:58
Speaker
I, I'm not, um, I guess I just believed in Ron knowing that he would come back. He was a great, great pilot. Um, I think I'm going to say this.
00:51:15
Speaker
It's never bothered me that he was gone. Uh, because I knew he was coming back. And it was just a time of, okay, this is what's happened while you were gone. this is This is what Joanne's doing. This is what she's just...
00:51:30
Speaker
um ah It's a good time. I've always looked at it as a good time. Now, I have to say, I had to tell him one time... You know, the discipline thing. he was he In Germany, he was gone three weeks out of each month.
00:51:46
Speaker
And so he comes back and he thinks he can be the disciplinarian right away. and And I just basically said, hey, things have been working. You just have to give it time.
00:51:58
Speaker
So you just let me handle things for a while and then then you can. you you you can be the disciplinary or you can not quite take over, but you can do something. You can have your time.
00:52:12
Speaker
But I've never looked at it as, oh, he's coming back. Oh my gosh, how's it going to be? I've always looked forward to it. Uh-huh. I think, Jonathan, it's a mindset that in the military, and there can be some similarities in the workforce, but you you just know that, okay, it goes with the territory, that somewhat trite expression.
00:52:34
Speaker
We will be separated at times. And so um ah during that 18 months of separation, and military trade go through this all the time, how are you going to maintain the family and during our separation?
00:52:47
Speaker
Have I, as the leader of the family, set up the finances to where I know with certainty, even during our separation, you're going to have enough to exist back home emotionally, even though I'm not physically present with my voice, how do i get my voice back to the so the family?
00:53:05
Speaker
How do we work together to ensure that my presence, even though I'm not physically present, how can my presence still be there? and to be the what I need to be even though I'm geographically separated.
00:53:20
Speaker
All that to say, ah it it goes with the territory. I use that somewhat trite expression. And so in the end, of right now, Marty and I can, we're not separated 18 months at a time, but we are at different times.
00:53:35
Speaker
What provides fulfillment to me is Marty and I will get together. We'll compare notes. What are you thinking? And ah we ah it's almost daily. We can spend an hour at least talking with each other.
00:53:48
Speaker
And it was just this morning. We devotional time, but the thinking about this podcast and different things throughout the week. We spent an hour doing some strategic thinking, but it's all of that together. And it's, ah I think at the core of it, Jonathan is for everybody listening, what provides fulfillment to you? What, what provides fulfillment?
00:54:10
Speaker
mean, that's at the core of satisfaction in okay Yep. To get to that core satisfaction, we may have to go through some amount of separation, but we're going to get back together. We're going go, we're going to compare notes and,
00:54:24
Speaker
But that to me is what overcomes any amount of separation. We're going to the fulfillment of being together totally overrides any downside of separation. i apologize. That's somewhat of a long answer, but that's who Marty and I are.
00:54:41
Speaker
I want to say two two things, and then and then I have a little story. to um Always date you why yeah the person you're married to, and always to have open communication.
00:54:53
Speaker
As tough as it is, date. okay Maybe times with children, it's hard to find a time, but do it. And open communication. But I want to go back to when he was in Vietnam.
00:55:06
Speaker
Tapes were the only thing we had. And he would send me a tape and then I would send him a tape. And I would play his tape to us. And Joanne was only two the first time.
00:55:19
Speaker
No, she was one, one. I would play the tape and say, this is daddy. And I had a picture of him in his uniform, in his flight suit. And ah each day I would go up and say, this is daddy.
00:55:32
Speaker
I didn't want her to be scared of him when he finally came back home. And she wasn't. ah So we've always had good communication. Because I was going to say that the closest I ever got to is I had a friend that was in jail and I used to write to him.
00:55:48
Speaker
And i kind of built that core when we were right. And i understand like they probably had emails and stuff. So I was wondering, like, did you enjoy the process of writing, which you said you had tapes? So the emails, it was just tape. So you did at the time it was writing and emails back and forth that you would do.
00:56:05
Speaker
Oh, I will tell you Jonathan, the technology was such that um if you have some young listeners, they may think in tapes, what's that? Well, it look it up on the internet. What's a cassette tape? And so we recorded and we sent that back and forth. It would take two weeks of transit time to...
00:56:24
Speaker
get from the send to the receive. And then there was the Mars, we called it then. and that was the of the satellite form of communication.
00:56:36
Speaker
But internet, ah well, okay, Marty and I were were invented long before the internet was invented. And long before email, all this kind of real-time communication, no, no nothing was the in real time at the time.
00:56:52
Speaker
It took different ways to communicate and so forth. But now we have the luxury of internet and so forth, real time communication. We did not have it back in those times.
00:57:04
Speaker
But um we were committed to each other that whatever it takes to get the word to each other, we will do whatever it takes, even though it took two weeks time to get a voice recording. We'll do whatever we know is needed to help keep that relationship together. So that's what it's all about. It's a, it is an aspect of critical thinking, which is a totally different topic, but that's a a lot of what, but a lot of who we are.
00:57:30
Speaker
With letters, there would be days you wouldn't get um a letter and then all of a sudden you'd get three on that same day. So um yeah, it, it was a growing experience.
00:57:44
Speaker
ah Got you. So speaking on the the question that I wanted to ask is before we get to the podcast thing.
Keeping Marriage Vibrant
00:57:53
Speaker
So how do you over the years, how did you keep the spunk in the relationship? So were talking about dating.
00:58:00
Speaker
And you were talking about being able to take time aside with the kid and still be able to date. So do you still date? Do you still buy her flowers? Do you still go out to movies?
00:58:15
Speaker
wheres was What's the status on that?
00:58:19
Speaker
i um He doesn't have to buy me flowers. And i think just time together just taking a weekend ah away.
00:58:31
Speaker
And, and sometimes so he'll say, when it's time to take the trash to the dump, do you want a dump date? And so it's a sense of humor is in our family. Nice. We both have a ah sense of humor and that, that has helped, but I'm not a person that I have to go away for two weeks or, you know I'm not a person just,
00:58:57
Speaker
Something small and just a weekend. and Just going to ECU this past weekend to watch the guy we're mentoring play football is is good.
00:59:09
Speaker
that And I will say, Jonathan, that a part of growing together the relationship, um And it does have to do with family traditions that the the way we celebrate Christmas, Thanksgiving, birthdays and so forth could be very different.
00:59:25
Speaker
But what is it ultimately that brings satisfaction to us? Now that has ah ah it can relate to the love language topic, which can take us into a totally different ah podcast, but it does have to do with Marty and me. And, um,
00:59:43
Speaker
Uh, Marty doesn't need flowers and quite honestly, I'm the kind of person I really don't want to spend 30, 40, 50 bucks on flowers that'll last for a week and, um, end up in a dump that, uh, you know, the, uh, the florist will thank me. And, um, so, uh, what lasts longer than that? It's really at the core of our relationship, it's communication and,
01:00:08
Speaker
Let's just talk very candidly for some in the early days, a stage of dating, sexual relationships. And yes, that's important. But yet, ah core values, the our ability to communicate, compare notes, thinking into the future.
01:00:24
Speaker
how can we benefit others? That really is the lasting value. That's a love language, the communication between the two of us being able to have and making time for it in dating can be for Marty and me. Hey, let's just sit in what we call our sunroom.
01:00:42
Speaker
Let's just talk. And we're in the house and it's some people say, you consider that a date. And, um, Well, yeah it's time with each other. And like Marty was saying, that we don't need two weeks of, ah you know, go out on a cruise.
01:01:00
Speaker
I mean, we wouldn't we wouldn't object to that. But yet, really all we need is time alone. And sometimes is we need to get away from where we are and go somewhere two or three days of that. And that constitutes a date.
01:01:14
Speaker
And so... it Everybody has their own definition of date, Jonathan, but it's for me, it's a matter of, okay, what do we need to do to maybe get a new setting, a new environment, and just have a refreshed attitude, and that's what Marty and I are.
01:01:32
Speaker
I have a funny story. I don't want to keep up telling you little stories, but we went to a Mexican restaurant one one night. And Ron is a coupon guy. You know, he eat if he can get 10%, he's going to get 10%.
01:01:47
Speaker
It doesn't matter. He just wants to get the best deal. So we hand the waitress the coupon. And he comes back, or waiter, he comes back and he goes, this coupon is six years old.
01:02:00
Speaker
and And Ron goes, it's a coupon. and And they accepted it. Wow. Okay. Well, I'm always looking for a good deal. i' found a good deal on Marty. Gotcha.
01:02:14
Speaker
So, ah Marty, are you a cook? You cook? I like to cook. I don't think I'm the best. I was going to say, what was your favorite meal she's ever made?
01:02:26
Speaker
I will tell you anything Marty makes, but she makes a spaghetti casserole that is good. She makes a green bean casserole that is she has come up with various marinades for steaks. I will take that and let the marinade marinate for about 24 hours. Maybe I'll take it out to the grill and cook and then o And we, we like to experiment. And, um, but, uh, Jonathan is one of those things that, um, Hey, ah Marty will ask me frequently. Well, how about if we do have this, that, and the other, it could be just a plain old peanut butter and jelly sandwich.
01:03:06
Speaker
And I will tell her frequently, Hey, as long as you're there, everything's going to be good. hu And so any particular, so i don't know if you watch movies, TV shows, anything you both enjoy sitting there watching?
01:03:21
Speaker
Any movie you could think of that you both enjoy watching? truly life True life movies. Okay. Okay. So anytime. Yeah. We'll go to a lot of the Christian movies that come out that are um true stories.
01:03:38
Speaker
Well, the Kendrick brothers, they are, they're, they're some of our favorites, but um anything that has a true story, Christian based, and moral. yeah Those are ones that Marty and I will go to and just thoroughly enjoy it.
01:03:52
Speaker
And one of the more recent movies, in fact, it may have been the last movie we saw, was um Sound of Freedom. and sound of freedom And there's been some people have had some controversy about it, but the Sound of Freedom and um everything that represents. But to us, trafficking in that's There was a message in there that those are the kind of movies we like, and but um those those kind of movies that are based in core values and can be ah inspirational to overcome and do better, those are the kind of true life stories we really like.
01:04:33
Speaker
ah Have you ever seen God is Not Dead? I believe there's two of them. It's a Christian movie you might want to look into. It's called God is Not Dead. nice We are familiar with it. We have not seen that yet.
01:04:44
Speaker
And but yes, that those are the kind of movies we do watch.
Podcast Purpose and Listener Engagement
01:04:48
Speaker
OK, so speaking of Overcomers, your podcast, Overcomers Overcoming, what was the motivation behind starting that podcast?
01:04:57
Speaker
Because I've been a guest on there and I think you guys do a phenomenal job with the guests you have and the advice that you're providing. But what made you want to do it together and what made you want to start the podcast?
01:05:10
Speaker
You want to I will tell you for me. I thought, okay, Marty, you and I have each overcome various aspects of life. Mine was low confidence and low self-image and so forth.
01:05:24
Speaker
And mental health has has been a topic that we feel the Lord has led us to We feel the Lord is leading me, and God's calling my life is to be a catalyst.
01:05:36
Speaker
Catalyst meaning to be a, oh let's say a change agent. But I know for me personally, having overcome, i had such a low opinion of myself at an early age.
01:05:49
Speaker
I don't want people to go through that. I want to be a catalyst to let people know, to be an inspiration that you can overcome anything you may be thinking. And so I felt the Lord saying to me, do a podcast. And I thought,
01:06:05
Speaker
Okay, I think I know what a podcast is, but I have no idea how to do this. i have no idea how to get the word out and so forth. So we just started out knowing that, okay, yeah, podcast is recording, but okay, let's do it.
01:06:20
Speaker
ah The first dozen or so were just so terrible, I wouldn't even want to listen to them. And so, Jonathan, you agreed to be a guest and you were one of our top guests.
01:06:32
Speaker
But it is a matter of how did you overcome whatever you overcame in life that people don't have to let the past dictate their future?
01:06:44
Speaker
But how did you overcome Now, nothing about our podcast is dwelling on the past, but rather just a brief overview. Well, this is what I've overcome. and let's take today and forward. Our purpose is, and God's calling in my life, is to inspire people to overcome, live the life that he created us to be.
01:07:06
Speaker
and have that healthy self image. And that is everything that we're about in our podcast, that there are too many people who are not living the life ah God created us to have. They are thinking negative because quite honestly, they've allowed the adversary to convince them of something other than what God created us to be.
01:07:30
Speaker
I talked to Marty about it. said, Marty, what do you think? And ah Marty, What were your thoughts at the time? Well, I didn't even know what a podcast was. You know, how do you do it? and And just, okay, well, let's do it. Let's pray about it and and and let's do it.
01:07:46
Speaker
And if you knew what we did for the first few podcasts, you'd be going, oh my gosh, I can't believe you did them. But through each podcast, I'm glad we've done them because I learned something that I can even apply to my own life. Uh-huh.
01:08:04
Speaker
uh, in this podcast, I'll pick up little nuggets from each podcast and, and, and use it. So I'm glad. And, and it's a way of getting Christ out there too.
01:08:17
Speaker
Nice. So I asked you this, Ron and Marty as well. How do you rest and recharge both of you? The rest and recharge is different for each one of us.
01:08:29
Speaker
There are times where ah the rest and recharge may be a walk around the block or doing some physical exercise. It might be ah me listening to classic country music.
01:08:44
Speaker
Or it might be i need to go to Scripture and just work my way through because I'm i'm being, ah if not overcome, I'm just being burdened by.
01:08:56
Speaker
But the Lord said, cast your burdens onto me and i am I will work you through them. And the cast means give it up. give it to the Lord.
01:09:08
Speaker
And there are many times that I'm saying, yeah, I think I have Lord, but then i'm I'm still fretting about it. and And so the rest and ah recuperation as rest and recharge ism is very different for everybody.
01:09:24
Speaker
But for me, it is any of those three, but absolutely. And I mean, I'm not patronizing Marty. Always, always, always, always, always.
01:09:34
Speaker
at the end of the day we're comparing notes okay what can we do better at the end of this podcast i'm going to ask marty how can i do it better and at the end of the day um well we've already had a couple of telephone conversations and we're working with the students we're mentoring and i asked her well what do you think marty how can i approach and what what words can i you better what about the tone of my voice How can I improve? And Marty and I always work together with that.
01:10:03
Speaker
I'm a believer we can always, always get better. And so when I feel as if Marty and I have tapped Marty and I've gained her insight, I just feel good about that. And that's that is a form of rest and recharge for me.
01:10:20
Speaker
Marty, I've done a lot of talking. What about you? I think it's important that you get away from it. You actually get out. we We will take a weekend and do something completely different.
01:10:33
Speaker
And I tell Ron, don't ever take my wheels away from me because I need to get in that car sometimes and just go by myself and just get away and go and go shopping or or just go to the grocery store and walk around the grocery store.
01:10:48
Speaker
yeah You just have to get away. And you have to say it's okay to get away. I got to drop it. I got to leave it so that I can come back and be better. Oh, shopping. I can't imagine anything more boring, Jonathan. says Oh, and I'm- He's not invited. I'm always invited. Never, never, never to go shopping with Marty.
01:11:09
Speaker
ah So um and we'll end a little bit with this. Scripture-wise, what are some of your favorite scriptures, both of you? Or books in the Bible that you just enjoy?
01:11:20
Speaker
Yes, I will tell one of the scriptures that just caught my attention early on is Ephesians 1.14, I believe it is, that we are sealed with the Holy Spirit.
01:11:34
Speaker
I was raised, and Marty was also, that you can lose your salvation. And i thought, oh my goodness. i ah I mean, i'm I'm in now, but I could be out later in the day. I'm in, I'm out. in And so when I read that, okay, you're sealed with the Holy Spirit. I had to ask, is that sealed? That means you never lose?
01:11:56
Speaker
Yes, that's what that means. That when you commit your life to the Lord, you are sealed with the Holy Spirit. And you never lose your salvation. Now, we can drift away from our Lord. Our Lord chastises us. But our Lord always wants us to have the right relationship with him.
01:12:13
Speaker
But that's the relationship that we have with our Lord, that we are sealed with the Holy Spirit. And Galatians 619, that um keep doing what is right. And in the right time, everything's going to come together. That's a very loose yeah translation Another ah favorite scripture is our Lord is never going to allow us to go through anything we can't handle, but he will allow you to go through things. And I can tell you this this goes into a much longer story.
01:12:42
Speaker
A lot of who I am ah the good of what I am has occurred through overcoming adversity and ah making it through different challenges. and the Lord has allowed me to go through different things.
01:12:54
Speaker
But those are some of my favorite scriptures that I refer to and rely on a lot. Marty, what about you? Growing up with, you excuse me, growing up knowing or thinking you could lose your salvation is ah a hard thing to get over.
01:13:10
Speaker
But as Ron said, the more you read and know that Like you said, the verse, you're sealed with the Holy Spirit and and knowing that and he he will never pluck you out of his hand.
01:13:22
Speaker
I love the Psalms. And so I go to the Psalms a lot of times to, ah especially 121, where I look to the mountains. My God is my refuge, my strength, and my and he holds me with his right hand.
01:13:42
Speaker
So those are very comforting for me. But I look at ex scripture each day and just say, what are you saying to me, Lord, through this scripture?
01:13:53
Speaker
Oh, gotcha. What about praise and worship? Where are your stances on worship music? Any favorites that you want to throw out there, artists that you enjoy and you want to share, you think people could benefit from listening to?
01:14:09
Speaker
Our worship, we do participate in a Sunday school, or that's a and some ah some churches call it just a Bible study, but it's Sunday school. And so Marty and I study scripture every week. We have a a quarterly we ah read from, but we study that together.
01:14:30
Speaker
And we we worship our Lord each morning. that that particularly ah with our individual devotions. and and then together ah we get together and say, well, what did you get from that scripture? How did how would you apply that?
01:14:46
Speaker
And then we look at our calendar and ah how how would we share God's word today with someone? And so worship is not just on Sunday morning.
01:14:56
Speaker
It's not just at a specific church door opening time. But I believe, Jonathan, it's an attitude that we have an attitude of worship that our our Lord is who He is. He created us.
01:15:11
Speaker
He created each one of us for a divine purpose. And so we worship him in truth and in spirit. And can you pray ah even with your eyes open? Yes, you certainly can. It's an attitude that we are communing with our Lord.
01:15:29
Speaker
And some people think, well, you're only praying if you're on your knees, eyes closed. And no, I don't think that at all. I think it's prayer, by definition, is communicating with our Lord. So can I communicate with my Lord?
01:15:44
Speaker
As I'm driving the vehicle, yes, I can. And can I thank him for what he is doing in and through me? But that's a part of our daily worship, that it's not just when we're in the building and particularly church is not a building. It's us. and But that's my my take on that topic. Marty, what about your worship?
01:16:06
Speaker
um I'm going to age myself. I love Southern gospel. In Indiana, I grew up on Southern gospel, and I love that. And that can just move move me to tears and and just, you know, praising God through that.
01:16:21
Speaker
So that's part of my my worship. And when I go into the service, I asked the Lord to speak to me. What does he want me to hear today? And so that, and when we have communion, communion is just, sometimes I can, I can just tear up and thank the Lord for what he did.
01:16:43
Speaker
So different, different areas of worship for me. Uh-huh. Okay, so there is a verse that I wanted to bring up to you. We're talking about how you see things from a compassionate perspective.
01:16:54
Speaker
And I want to say that this verse I discovered ah while back, and it was the conversation Jesus had with the rich young ruler in the book of Mark. Now, it's interesting that it's presented in the book of Mark, but it's not presented in the other gospels.
01:17:09
Speaker
And what I learned from that passage, viewing it from a bit more of a compassionate point of view that you spoke about, is I remember the rich young ruler coming to Jesus and saying that, you know, what must I do to inherit the kingdom of God?
01:17:25
Speaker
And he said, he said to him, you know, and he's talked about what he has done. He said, I've followed all the laws that you've given that was provided to me, the commandments since I was little.
01:17:36
Speaker
And then Jesus said, give up your riches, your possessions and come follow me. Now, in the past what happens is the rich young ruler goes away. And then I said, well, the question that I asked was why, if Jesus loved him, why he didn't stop him?
01:17:52
Speaker
And that's what someone would say. Why didn't Jesus stop him? And what I realize is that part of God's compassion and love for us is ah to allow us the room for self-reflection.
01:18:04
Speaker
And what transpired is, I think... And then we, of course, we don't know what happened to the rich young ruler, but sometimes in these moments and situations that we go through, God needs to give us the room to grow and reflect.
01:18:18
Speaker
And upon that reflection that we can change our minds about what we ought to do. And sometimes love is not constantly bashing somebody. Loving also happens at a distance.
01:18:31
Speaker
So sometimes when we read scriptures and we see things and we see how God is responding and doing certain things, it has a lot to do with how we ought to look at it versus how it comes off. Right. And I give you another example.
01:18:44
Speaker
When I think about the conversation Jesus had with his disciples. Right. And he says, there's many things I want to tell you. This is in the Gospel of John, but you can't bear them now. A lot of times when we look at, wow, well, why am I not getting the things that I ask God for?
01:18:59
Speaker
Sometimes when it comes to faith, it's about enlarging your territory. It's about going out and doing business. It's about going out and doing things. Sometimes we're not in a place of maturity to occupy with the faith that we have. We talked about the talents, right?
01:19:14
Speaker
Each of us were given a certain amount of talents and the talents dictate exactly where you are and your faith walk with God. But sometimes... In order for us to be able to do certain things or to be able to handle what God has given us, we have to mature into that place.
01:19:29
Speaker
So sometimes we'll look at the scriptures and say, you know, is it that I don't have enough faith? Right. And we see that going around. My faith is not enough. Sometimes. It just happens to be that God is protecting you from yourself.
01:19:42
Speaker
But you don't start to learn that until you live. You can only live life forwards and reflect backwards. And by that reflection is where you can make adjustments. So I want to give those examples. Do you have any examples that you have in scripture where you differed, but you saw the value that Marty, that you probably expressed to Ron that he probably didn't quite get?
01:20:03
Speaker
Or what about Ron? Is there any scriptures that you saw that was interesting and unique? And then maybe Marty picked up on it. Just one or two examples that you both have in scripture.
01:20:16
Speaker
Yeah, I will say that the um and the pra the ah parable of the prodigal son comes to mind that um yeah the um the the brothers ah could say, well, dad, life's not fair. How can you be so easy on him when he did what he did?
01:20:35
Speaker
and And then father comes back and said, okay, yeah, you think life's not fair, but But yet he grew through that experience. and I think that relates to Jonathan, what you were saying.
01:20:47
Speaker
The Lord will allow us to grow through various experiences. And it is a mindset that we have that we can either and the oft used expression,
01:20:59
Speaker
Are you going to be better or will you become bitter through this experience? And if we have the right mindset, we can grow through various experiences the Lord allows us to go through.
01:21:14
Speaker
Again, i mentioned earlier, and it's in 2 Corinthians 1, 6, I believe, that what the Lord says, I'm going to do a loose translation of it, that transliteration.
01:21:25
Speaker
I'm not going to allow you to go through anything you can't handle, but um I'll bring you through this. Now, what I'm going to ask you to do, says the Lord, when you grow through this experience, I'm expecting you to pass it forward.
01:21:38
Speaker
And what you have learned through this, you can learn if you have the right mindset, the right attitude. But again, i want you to pass it forward. I want for you to look for the opportunity to work with others because of, and you pass on the experience I've allowed you to go through because you grew through that.
01:21:59
Speaker
And so um Marty and I have been through various things together. I've done some things individually, and some of them are in the category of ah very unsmart.
01:22:09
Speaker
But I grew through that. Marty, what are some thoughts you have about how the the Lord has helped you through different situations? I'm going to go back to your one where the rich man, and you said, why didn't God stop him?
01:22:25
Speaker
Well, God saw his heart. I mean, this is how I see it. God saw his heart. And he knew and knew that if he stopped him, it it was not going to change this man's mind.
01:22:36
Speaker
He could not give up his riches. Right. So God's always heart. And so why stop him? It was a choice. And there have been times when I know I made a choice and and God didn't stop me.
01:22:49
Speaker
And then later on I'm going, oh, why didn't he why didn't you stop me? you know Well, I gave you a mind. I gave you a heart to to think. And the scripture comes in to mind, worship the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind.
01:23:09
Speaker
And so that's how I see, see that one. Um, Well, I'll tell you just this morning, um we both read some scriptures about King David. And ah just what a great inspiration to know the bad decisions he made. But ah the hey and he would go to the Lord and just say, cleanse me of my unrighteousness and see the holiness I have in my heart.
01:23:34
Speaker
And the Lord saw that in spite of what ah what David had done wrong. but he saw the right heart in David and um David in the various trials that he went through the the friendship, the genuine relationship he had with Jonathan and um just how things were brought through in his life and how the Lord worked through the various ah bad decisions that David made.
01:24:03
Speaker
Another inspiration to me is the apostle Paul that you remain strong in the Lord and that You always go forward, but that's not to say you're not you will go through life without trials, going through stuff.
01:24:18
Speaker
But I, the Lord, when you keep your focus on me, when you're totally surrendered to me, I'll bring you through stuff. but um it's not to say that we're it's going to be a life of ease, but through it all, we learn, and the Lord's saying, I want you to share what i have learned what I've brought you through, what you have learned through these experiences.
01:24:40
Speaker
You share this with others because there are others who are going through various trials in life who need to know that If you just turn yourself over to me, I'll bring you through different things.
01:24:51
Speaker
And ah that's not to say that everything is going to be easy in life. It's just say that I'll bring you through it. And that's the story of our life, Jonathan. Yeah, I'll make one more comment about what you you're mentioning about taking what you experienced and sharing it with your brothers. I keep constantly thinking about the conversation Jesus had with Peter about the devil seeks to have you, but I pray that your faith not fail you.
01:25:17
Speaker
And he said, out of this situation, you take what it is that you experienced and pass it on to your brothers, right? Because that's the most important thing that there's growth that happens on the individual scale. And then there's growth that happens on the individual scale that deserves to be shared in a group, in a community where people can benefit from it.
01:25:36
Speaker
Right? I believe the gospel itself is not just a personal transformation, but it's a community and public reform, which means we take the things we go through, we share it. And that's what a lot of Hebrews is all about, is to the sharing and the seeing of how we've had people before us, even though they didn't see what we see now.
01:25:57
Speaker
how it's helped and shaped us and it's helped encourage our faith along the way. So I want to thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I've enjoyed this conversation. Now, your podcast, Overcome is Overcoming. Where can people find it and listen to it?
01:26:12
Speaker
And do you have any websites, any social medias you want to pull out there for my audience? Anyone that's interested in counseling, I want to give you the platform and opportunity to share those things. Thank you.
01:26:23
Speaker
Our Overcomers Overcoming podcast is available wherever podcasts are ah broadcast, Amazon, Spotify, and all of them. And we welcome the opportunity to feature any of your guests who have overcome anything in life We want to feature those who have overcome by virtue of reaching out to those. And we have three primary objectives is to let people know they're not alone.
01:26:53
Speaker
Two, you'd know that there are multiple solutions to anything you're facing. Three, you may be going through something that you would say in hindsight that did not make a good decision, and that relates to critical thinking. So we want to help people to overcome anything they are going through. We have a website.
01:27:14
Speaker
thecooperculture.com. And your listeners can contact me at ron at thecooperculture.com or they can contact Marty, M-A-R-T-Y at thecooperculture.com.
01:27:28
Speaker
dot com We would look forward to featuring people on our podcast.
Healthy Culture and Environment
01:27:33
Speaker
We also look forward to working with people to establish what we call a very healthy culture at home and in the workplace. We are a believer that when there is a healthy home culture,
01:27:49
Speaker
there's a pretty good chance you'll go to work happy. When there's a good culture, healthy, confident culture at the workplace, that a pretty good chance you'll return home happy.
01:28:00
Speaker
And then when there's a ah good culture at church and those with whom you worship and fellowship, all three of those can work together such that we can have the confidence we'll overcome anything that we encounter.
01:28:15
Speaker
that the Lord will bring us through it. So that's a lot of what we're about, Jonathan. Nice. Now, let's be remiss if I don't ask you this. What is Cooper culture? The Cooper culture with the emphasis on culture and the culture is those defining values and character traits of the environment. And so culture can be defined in different ways by different people, but people would, let me just say in the workplace, people,
01:28:46
Speaker
leave or stay the workplace primarily because of the people. And the people has to do with culture. And people will stay or leave a workplace less so because of pay, more so because of people.
01:29:01
Speaker
But do I feel appreciated? Do I feel you respect me? Do I feel you take the time to learn my strengths and so forth? That's all a part of a culture at the workplace.
01:29:14
Speaker
But then in the home, the do you respect me? And we've had people, we featured them on the podcast. They they have said, i feel you abandoned me, emotionally abandoned me, even though I lived in the same house. You paid more attention to somebody else than me.
01:29:33
Speaker
It's a matter of us learning everyone in their personalities, relationships, strengths, their weaknesses, to understand what various people experience.
01:29:45
Speaker
But that's a lot of what the culture is from my perspective. Marty? Ron also speaks on culture with companies or even churches to ah help them with their culture.
01:30:00
Speaker
And I do welcome the opportunity to speak where we talk about what we're talking about on this podcast. We are, of course, faith-based. But the culture is one that how do we develop a more healthy culture?
01:30:14
Speaker
And I'm happy to speak to various audiences about that. Amen. So without further ado, would you mind closing out a prayer for us?
Conclusion and Prayer
01:30:22
Speaker
I'll be happy to do that. Our Father, our Lord, and our Savior, we thank you for your presence in our lives.
01:30:29
Speaker
Thank you, Lord, for working us through the various challenges, and you've told us that you will guide us through as the shepherd of our life, and that, Father, you'll bring us through any challenges that we experience.
01:30:43
Speaker
Thank you, Father, for your life, your love, and thank you for the Holy Spirit that dwells within every believer that Father, we have the total peace, the comfort, knowing that we're safely in the palm of your hands, that no man can pluck us from your hands.
01:30:59
Speaker
Father, thank you for that confident assurance that we have. Thank you for daily living in our lives. Father, for those who are experiencing various aspects of brokenness, I pray that our listeners would turn to you and accept you as lord and savior totally surrender our lives to you and accept what you did on the cross as the finished work to give us the salvation that peace and comfort of knowing that we'll spend an eternity with you and father that that we have that promise that we will spend an eternity with you as we totally surrender our lives to you so father thank you for what you'll accomplish
01:31:41
Speaker
through Jonathan, his work, this podcast. Father, thank you for what you've done for us on the cross by sparing your blood. And that, Father, that blood is the forgiveness of all of our sins. And thank you, Lord, for what you've done and will continue to do. And we'll thank you in Jesus' name.
01:31:57
Speaker
Amen. Amen. amen