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The Truth Of The Matter is Episode 175: Special Guest - John Aderounmu
30 Plays2 days ago
'The Truth of the Matter is' podcast is all about providing an honest, contextual, historicized, philosophical and psychological view of the Bible through the use of hermeneutics, while sharing some personal experiences from myself Daniel and on occasion our special guest. Today we speak with John Aderounmu who is a Christian. He teaches the Sunday school at his local parish. He attends an African Orthodox Church called the Celestial Church of Christ. He has a background in computer science and currently works in the homecare space. He is a European Soccer fan and enjoys traveling. He hopes to be told in the end; well done good and faithful servant. Tune in to learn something.
Transcript
00:00:02
Speaker
Welcome to a special edition of the Truth of the Matter is podcast. I'm your host, Jonathan, and I'm here with our special guests. But before we introduce and welcome him inappropriately, of course, let's begin by recognizing and appreciating all of our new and consistent listeners.
00:00:27
Speaker
We thank you all in advance for continuing to press play at your own convenience. If you are a first-time listener, we want you to know that the Truth of the Matter is podcast. It's all about providing an honest, contextual, hysterezed, philosophical, and psychological view of the Bible, the use of hermeneutics while sharing some personal experiences from myself, Daniel, and on occasion, our was special guests. We believe in Of course, applying God's word to everyday life. Today, we will praise God for another new testimony that we will hear. We hope after hearing this man of God and his journey that you will be encouraged and uplifted.
00:01:07
Speaker
We hope that also you will see how an encounter with Jesus Christ would guarantee that your life would not be the same. Now, without further ado, let's welcome in our special guest, John A. Ramaduma. How are you doing? I'm doing great. It's pronounced John Adoromo. That's ah a very unique name from the country called Nigeria.
00:01:36
Speaker
I happen to be a member of the Yorba ethnicity. Nice. Yeah. We have unique names given to different families. Okay. So let's tell our audience a little about a little bit about you, John, right? So we know that you're a Christian, right? We know that you teach Sunday school at your local parish. Can you at least tell us what a parish is? Yes.
00:02:02
Speaker
so Um, I grew up as a celestial church of Christ member. I am a Christian. Um, but celestial church of Christ is an African originated Orthodox church. Um, and they, um, through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and, um, you know, the leadership of one man as well as the Bible and many other, um, several different sources.
00:02:34
Speaker
revealed and developed the church over time and over years. um What I do is I was born in the church um and I now in my local parish, my local parish is one smart of the localized part of the church. So it's a local church um that is a part of the bigger church that came from Nigeria as well.
00:02:56
Speaker
okay so we know that you attend an african orthodox church right as you just mentioned church of christ right you have a background if i'm not mistaken in computer science and currently you work in the home care space right we know that you are into european soccer you're a european soccer fan you enjoy traveling right and i believe you say you hope to be told in the end well done by good and faithful servant. I also feel the same way. Before we get started, at least why is that so important to you? Why why is that? um I think ultimately in the same way that Paul said that in the end he just wants to make sure he has a crown in heaven for him and that he is not after preaching himself or found himself missing in the end. So I just want to make sure
00:03:54
Speaker
I do my ultimate best that I am, you know, in the end at the ultimate wedding at the final harvest. Okay, so our demo we're gonna Jump into prayer right before we Start diving to your story a little bit learn a little bit ah about your testimony We hope that what you share with us today can be inspirational uplifting for those who are either on the fence or curious just to know about a little bit about you So i'll do that right now. So we'll just jump right into prayer. So oh god in the name of jesus lord You said for where there are two or three?
00:04:33
Speaker
in your name, meeting together as your followers, you are there among them. So we invite you into this conversation, we thank you for this opportunity that you've given us, that you've given me and John to fellowship with one another. Even though we don't know each other personally, we have one thing in common, and that is we have a relationship with you. And that makes us a part of one body that makes us family.
00:04:57
Speaker
that makes us part of the body of believers and most importantly, that makes him my brother, Lord. The Truth of the Matters podcast appreciates the time that he has set aside to provide us with his personal testimony. And I pray that having this conversation withdrawn will open the doors to all hearts and minds, whether they are saved or unsaved. I pray that whatever is shared today, not only will it be inspirational, but it'll be life-changing. I also pray that what's shared today that those who are listening, right, those who are watching, Lord, I ask that you open up their eyes to see their ears to hear, their hearts to receive, and their minds to understand. Let whoever is listening be blessed and leave, of course, with a different perspective on life with you in it. I know so often there's questions about what it's like to be in relationship with you, but I pray that through what we share today,
00:05:58
Speaker
Let those who are curious about it be envious about what it is to have a relationship with you and therefore chase after you. For we know that you're not hard to be fine. That if we draw near to you like the book of James says, you will draw near to us. And I pray that this conversation brings someone close out there who's listening.
00:06:17
Speaker
And with that being said, Lord, we thank you. We honor you. We give you all the glory, honor and praise. And we say this humbly and honesty in Jesus name we pray. Amen. Amen. Okay, John. So I guess the first part I want to open up for discussion, at least understand a little bit about you is for one, what can you say is a huge difference when it comes to I guess for the basis, an African Orthodox Church and what you've experienced or seen that is different here while being in America, specifically in the New York trial state area. OK, so I don't have too much of an experience attending other various churches in the New York state tri-state area. But what that's what I've seen on the media, at least what is shown online on YouTube,
00:07:07
Speaker
um The ultimate difference is it's in our mode of worship. So in the cell searches of Christ, which I was born and and raised up in, we have a mode of worship that is centered around the Bible and extract extracted from it so that if anyone at any time walks in for a whole or full service,
00:07:30
Speaker
a full day of worship. um They received both the gospel, they received deliverance, they received healing, they received the entire um you know menu of Christ. They see from beginning to till the end, even if anyone in there didn't know what they were saying, even if nobody else read the Bible, even if nobody really truly understood what what it means to be a question. So our mode of worship starts with with prayers. We pray, let's say for a Sunday service, it's it's the same prayer for forgiveness of sins and certification so that anyone that comes to the church is
00:08:12
Speaker
you know is able to then receive Jesus Christ as the Lord and Savior and then be certified as the service goes on and then we do that again for those that are late and after that we sing in hymn a hymn of of ah forgiveness and opening our hearts to receiving Christ Jesus as the Lord and Savior after as we go on through the service We have another type of of prayer, which is Thanksgiving prayer in which we are, you know, the Bible says we should give thanks more than we have a request. And so we do that. We sing a hymn of Thanksgiving. And then we pray for the Holy Spirit to come into our lives and then sanctify us and then empower us. That is done um by one of the members of the church.
00:08:58
Speaker
And after that, we pray for the victory and the protection of God um next. And then we sing a hymn that almost simulates, is usually one of the prayers that I just mentioned. And then we pray for the blessing and God's favor. And that's just mean required or limited to the blessings of this world, but you know, the heavenly blessings that God has in plans for those that are obedient to Him and follow Him. And.
00:09:23
Speaker
By the time we've done these prayers, we've sang the hymns, we've read the Bible lessons, one from the old and one from the new, um usually contrasting it and converging and having a message that still boils down to Christ. And we sing seven hymns throughout the service. um Two or three of them are usually about the gospel. And then in the end, we're on the prayer service with Thanksgiving,
00:09:51
Speaker
and We do some collection and we do some, you know, general announcements in which then someone can say what the things that are pertaining to the local parish um information that is needed to keep their the parish run smoothly, you know, and all the tenants and the rules of the church that were.
00:10:12
Speaker
um formed and are derived from the Bible in the same way that the apostles in the book of the active apostles were saying the tenants of the church on the Sabbath after every you know day of worship. So we we do the same thing. So quick question. I know in the Epiopean Bible, there's 88 books, and I know in the Catholic Bible 73,
00:10:38
Speaker
And I know, I believe in a Protestant is 66. How many books are in the Bible or in the African? Oh, yes. in our In our church, we use the same regular Bible, 66 books, okay um from Genesis to Revelation, um the Old and New Testament as as most as most other places use them.
00:11:00
Speaker
were not we're not we or Although we originated in Africa, when we we originated from the West African part. And then the Bible that we use is the one that we, I don't know how we came to use it, but I know it's not the Eastern African Bible.
00:11:20
Speaker
Gotcha. So I know you mentioned that you teach Sunday school. What about it? Do you believe? Bring so much joy and so much excitement at least in your preparation during the week before you provide a word to the people who are Coming in and and hoping to be blessed for the week. What is some of your thoughts about it and you feel? So I think for me it's Knowing that the the the calling of being a teacher can be very useful in in opening my in opening and helping expand the understanding of those that are still growing in the same way that it was beneficial for me to receive it from all the teachers going up. um The difference between the churches and even the local parishes here is because of a smaller
00:12:12
Speaker
um concentration of membership. um We tend to sometimes struggle to find qualified teachers or people that can separate themselves from the actual main church where everyone, where every adult is in. So they spend some time with the children and then teach them. But I had experienced that and I want to make sure that the children that are in my local parish get a similar experience or, you know, the best that I can give as as as well as the, with the help of the other teachers that we have present at my local parish. So I was it i was fortunate enough, brought my life in each parish and I went to back home in Nigeria to receive a very good and sound understanding about both the Bible, the doctrine, our hymns, and you know,
00:13:02
Speaker
understanding what it was to grow up as a Christian and having that love and unity around you and making sure I can create the same situation for those that don't have the same level of privilege that I did back home.
00:13:16
Speaker
Okay, so talk to us a little bit about your experience back home. I'm, I'm guessing for the most part, right, that everybody were was followers of Christ, and he grew up appreciating, right, I think it's Joshua 24 15 in this house, we were sold the Lord, right. And I guess in that kind of space,
00:13:37
Speaker
For those who are just curious, did it ever feel forced? Did it feel natural? Would you say that your experience in following Christ was something you felt genuine about? What would you say your experience was growing up and learning about Jesus and it ultimately being something that you take pride in and you believe and you will heartedly accept now?
00:14:01
Speaker
That's a very good question. um So I was born in the church, born a Christian from birth. And and I think I didn't really know what it meant to be a Christian. I was just going to church because my parents tracked me along.
00:14:15
Speaker
And for all I could no care about it was, when are we leaving? When is this done? This is too long. I'm tired. We have school tomorrow. Why are we leaving this late? you know I never said these things out loud, but in my mind, I was just, I can't wait for this to be over. When I'm older, I'm definitely not doing this in my life. like there's no way There's no way I'm going to continue with this you know once I get past a certain age. And you know that didn't happen, luckily for me.
00:14:45
Speaker
and go um But at the time I, I came to the realiz realization ah about how, you know, how many miracles that witnessed how many miracles I've been in, and I had a, I think a personal encounter of with Jesus Christ, and I was just, I became, I began to understand Um, that it was best. I just give my life completely to him and let him deal with the consequences, do what he tells me to do, do what is aligned on the Bible and live my life completely as a Christian. And I would know that whatever happens, um, my life is just in God's hands because I had no interest in living my life any other way. And I try to commit myself and do the very best that I can.
00:15:30
Speaker
And it's not always, you know, easy because they attest, the temptations, their trials, and you have to make sure that you are continually on the path to make sure that you're not de defeatating deviating from the path of salvation. So that's how it has been for me.
00:15:50
Speaker
Did I probably answer that question? Yes, I think for the most part. So let's talk a little bit about friends, friendships, people that you grew up with, people that you associate yourself with a for a period of time. As you began to grow more and more in your faith and relationship with Jesus Christ, I'm pretty sure that there are people around you, right?
00:16:12
Speaker
We know eye sharp is iron. We know that bad company and corrupts good behavior in the book of Corinthians. At least, are there any friends today that you drifted apart, that you no longer are in contact with, but you wish that there was a better core between one another? Talk a little about any of those so sort of friendships you had.
00:16:31
Speaker
I think there are a few of them, even amongst members of the church that don't seem to particularly have the interest in growing in the same way that you are. But I can give a very good example. This was sort of recent. So I had a friend of mine who will show how I'd convinced or I'd brought to Christ and he was going to a local church. And for a while,
00:16:59
Speaker
I tried to invite him to my church. He said he was still far, so he found a local church when he had joined. Then I spoke to them um at one time, and we were trying to come up with a business together by bank items and computer science. His is an electrical engineer, and the idea was this combined skills to solve a problem that exists in the world, and hopefully we can make a career out of this.
00:17:24
Speaker
and But every every, as I thought about this, and I was writing all the plans, you know writing writing all the proposals, speaking to speaking to my contacts about how we could provide a solution to a problem that currently exists, the Holy Spirit kept on telling me, oh you cannot be unequaled.
00:17:46
Speaker
And I was stunned I would wake up i and I was just that's not making any sense. I'm not getting married um This is this is not the situation What do you mean? You cannot be only go to you eventually about the second or third day. I read I went back and I read that I and And I figured out, oh, this has nothing to do with marriage at all. This this relates to everything. I cannot work with darkness. You cannot be on equal. You cannot work together against unless they agree. So I said, Lord, help me, like reveal this to me. i don't I don't really understand. He's a Christian. um what's What's going on here? um And I think after a while, he finally all just clicked.
00:18:29
Speaker
that they hadn't really come to Christ. They had a an ulterior motif and the idea of making a business with them would just not sit what we got. So I pretty much had to end that that friendship and the idea of a business together and using our skills together. um And yeah, and and that was the and that was the end of that. um But ultimately, I think when when you find out that um The more you grow with Christ, the more you drift apart from the same people. So I found myself surrounded with people that are even distances away through Zoom, video calls, Bible classes, you know ah meetings, and you know and closer to some members of my own local parish because we
00:19:18
Speaker
We have a certain understanding and and a commitment to, you know, growing nice questions that we cannot find locally around us. So God will always place people around you that can help you to grow. And we'll always, you know, keep making sure that you're not surrounded by, you're not isolated, you're not alone.
00:19:41
Speaker
although you know Christ alone is enough for every single individual. Even if you find yourself in a you know small room in a corner with no light, Christ is still dead with you. But Christ has made sure that I've always had people, even though I wasn't sure what the situation was. So it's not a pushback, but I do want to ask your your thoughts on this. you know I've always felt that the people that are surrounding us I felt like when Jesus entered into the world, I understand that Jesus is probably the most like well-known figure to use this example. He never let the environment corrupt him. Change him. Right? Yes. He always desired to change the environment. And I think when we even speak about the gospel message, it's not just a personal transformation. It's a public and community reform. And when I say that is Jesus entered and into a society that needed help.
00:20:39
Speaker
and he changed the society by entering into a space that needed the help. And ah and if we take seriously what is told to us in the book of Matthew about let your light shine before others, specifically Matthew 5, so that they may glorify your Father in heaven, he's speaking about our ability to impact the environments that we step into, right? We're like little Jesus' that when we enter a space, not only are we pointing people back to Christ, but more importantly, we're changing that environment.
00:21:07
Speaker
I think more or less when I look at a passage about being unequally yoked, it's much more tailored to those who are new in the faith, because those are the ones who are much more vulnerable to being tempted, right? And we all have the ability to be tempted, but I'm talking about seasoned believers, believers that are not yet walking, yeah I guess the scripture that talks about being light and salt in the earth, right? We know salt is it supposed to preserve, us as believers are supposed to preserve the integrity of Christ within any society, community, etc., etc., right? And I think there's something about us being salt.
00:21:54
Speaker
which I mentioned earlier is about prudence, but that's godly wisdom, godly discernment, godly judgment into a context that's needed. And I think when we step into these spaces, we have to be well aware of who we are in Christ. Why also paying attention to the lost people that are around us. And instantly, I think, immediately when we see people that don't necessarily get it yet, we depart them. And if we continuously depart them, then the guidance, right, I maybe make another connection in the book of Corinthians, it says one person waters, another person plants,
00:22:34
Speaker
but God gives the increase. There are times where we're not meant to water, but we're definitely meant to plant. And there are times that we are, maybe we're meant to plant, but not water. right Whether we're watering or planting, I think our purpose in this society is extremely important. I just wonder sometimes that immediately when we remove ourselves from situations and circumstances,
00:22:58
Speaker
it becomes more or less about what the condition you are as a believer in that context. If it's something that's tedious in terms of what you struggle with and you're fleeing from that predicament, that's completely understandable. But I do wonder if we read some portions of text and take it too literal. And by that, what I mean is we remove ourselves, but we have to question whether or not is the faith that we have in Christ going to waver due to somebody else's lifestyle or situation that's not conducive or relatable to what the text says, right? I always wonder that. So I say this all to say to bring it back to the original point is that sometimes I believe as followers and believers in Christ
00:23:47
Speaker
The reason why we're there or the reason why we're friends with certain people is because they hate it, right? Even when Peter said, always be prepared to give a reason for the hope that you have, specifically it talks about being gentle. It's also about being respectful. And that is more or less ah about sticking in.
00:24:09
Speaker
into things and not completely departing because the question always becomes not that God won't send somebody else, but more or less we don't necessarily truly appreciate the story of Gideon, right? Where Gideon is complaining to God about all these different things that has happened to him as a group.
00:24:32
Speaker
And what is God said? Am I not sending you to solve the problem? Am I not sending you to be that light and that darkness, right? And and I just look at that and I'm saying, we have we are so much more capable of representing Christ, right? We know that.
00:24:48
Speaker
were ambassadors and representatives for him. And sometimes I think we do immediately in the beginning flee from situations because we're concerned for our own you know sanity, our own relationship with God. But then I think we question how rooted we are in our faith. And if we are rooted in our faith, we are reading the scriptures daily, we are in constant relationship with God, then I don't think there's anything to flee from, right? I think it's more about
00:25:20
Speaker
you allowing God to use you in those moments for people who don't have any assistance, don't have any help. And the last thing that they need is someone to completely get rid of them as a result of thinking that there's nothing that we can do. Let me make one more statement. I want to get your thoughts.
00:25:38
Speaker
and There are so many portions in scripture, specifically dealing with King Solomon, when he had relationships with people that served other gods. And when you're thinking about the impact of the overall nation,
00:25:56
Speaker
right And you're thinking about the trading that shoot that has to be done in order for that nation to survive. I think, more or less, I guess the first story that comes to my mind is what happened to Neza Knessa. Neza Knessa witnessed the power.
00:26:14
Speaker
of God through Daniel's relationship with God, right? He witnessed all these different things. But in the end, what we see is that he never ultimately gets saved. But I didn't and take away the relationship or at least the partnership that they had where they he he gave honor to Daniel's God, along with understanding that there were still gods of gold, silver, and all the other different gods that they created and that they they put together. And yet he knew there was something distinctly different. Even him eating grass, even him doing all these different things, it didn't change who he was. But what that goes to show us is that
00:26:57
Speaker
If we are too nerve-wracking and scared to be among others that don't necessarily agree with everything that we agree with, I do think we're we're limiting our capacity and our reach for God to enter spaces with into people.
00:27:16
Speaker
that needed. And immediately, I think we probably want to stay in there and be much more strong and and and much more committed to God and seeing what God can potentially do. So what are your thoughts to that?
00:27:30
Speaker
um I have it quite a few things to say, but you raise very good points. So when Christ was was preaching the gospel and he reached a certain city and they they sent him away, he says, ah you're going to do much miracles there because they were not willing to receive the gospel. And he left and he told his is his disciples, anywhere you're told to go and you go and you're not welcome, you dust your feet and you move on.
00:27:58
Speaker
um We see when the gospel is shared, before the gospel is shared with Lydia. And in the book of Acts, she's ready. Her heart has been opened up by God before Paul tells her, are you are you do you know about Jesus? are you Have you heard about Messiah? She was ready to re receive the gospel because God had done the work.
00:28:18
Speaker
um And not the busters say, no, no, I think this is corretines, first corretines, and Paul writes some eye water, Apollo ah polo plants, or knee plants, and eye water. There were two different things going on there, and they're speaking to people that already understood the, received the gospel, and they were then growing, and they were doing the comparisons. What I was referring to in that, in that in ah
00:28:48
Speaker
And that field business venture is, God does not tell us to go into businesses with unbelievers. Um, that is not, that is not, it's the same as, as a marriage. And it's what I believe that God tells us not to start a business venture, but an unbeliever. Now I have not entirely stopped talking to this person or, you know, caught up contact completely. I've just reduced my, my, you know, contact with them. Um, because I noticed they were, they had a rope of my mind. They were on, on willing to probably receive the gospel, um, without, you know,
00:29:26
Speaker
while pretending to have done so. um When Peter comes over to... part part the Holy Spirit on on the newly saved members, Simon the Sorcerer asked to pay for it. And he told them, you know, pretty much rebuked him. So we see in many cases in which you don't do things on behalf of God. You let God do his thing and you go where you're told to go, you obey. And that is what I believe I have done in that situation. um There are many, many instances throughout the Bible in which you
00:30:02
Speaker
which I think in 1 Kings 13, the d ah younger prophet comes into town, tells them what they need to do to do it, and the older prophet comes in and tells him, you know, the Lord has also told me something. yeah And if, if and um ultimately that led to his death, and that was the end of that younger prophet for following exactly what God had told him to do.
00:30:27
Speaker
So it's it's a matter of being obedient to God directly and making sure you're not in your own understanding doing things that make more sense to you because they seem more logical, they seem more kind, they seem more friendly. And God does not operate on these things because he sees the heart of the person, he sees how they function, he sees how they think, and he knows how they've, how to write themselves to do certain things. So For me, I prayed on the matter and I've waited on God if because i I believe I lost what would have been potentially good a good amount of a good friendship and a and a good business opportunity and not doing that, but I had to be obedient to God. Yeah.
00:31:10
Speaker
Okay, so I agree with you. I respect that. I just tossed those scenarios out there is because in in some cases, you know, we know I think it's Romans 825 that we wait on the Lord patiently, right? and and And in a lot of cases, there are moments and times where we're immediately believing that God's going to respond or communicate to us in one way when he has communicated in a completely different way. And when we're trying to figure out exactly how it is that God is informing me or directing me in these situations. And in some cases, I think more or less
00:31:48
Speaker
There are scenarios we see in scripture where God has a way of communicating. And then there are other opportunities. There's a perfect, there's a beautiful passage, I think it's in 2 Kings, maybe chapter three, with the woman whose children are going to be sold into slavery as a result of the dead of the father.
00:32:08
Speaker
And what ends up happening is she was trying to figure out how she was going to address it. And it isn't until Elijah comes in and he points to her the things that she already had that she didn't necessarily think of much value, but it's because of the wisdom and knowledge.
00:32:26
Speaker
of pointing out things she already had, she then immediately saw that she had all that she needed to do in order to get her children back and to dig herself out of the debt, right? We understood that the blessing continued to pour as long as she had jars. So there are instances where I think the beautiful thing about meeting people and having relationships or building or having relationships in general is that there are people that come into our lives to enhance a lot of what we already have. And in some cases, bringing knowledge and insight that and perspective that we don't have. And as to that, we see the value of that person, that steps into our life. And we also see the value in the relationship that I now have with that person.
00:33:14
Speaker
And it's very interesting how no matter what in life we're trying to figure out exactly how to do it, and it's always changing, right? We know God's ways has passed us finding out. And it's just a mystery of encountering people, not knowing with certainty where it's gonna lead to and amazingly being blown away by what God has decided to do in those moments. So that's just something that crossed our mind. So I guess I wanna ask you a little bit about this.
00:33:45
Speaker
when at least you have the opportunity to lay a message on to those who are listening on Sunday. What is your preparation like? Can you talk to us a little bit about what your preparation is throughout the week, where you're you're meditating on something and you're you're trying to decide You know, how can you go about it? Is it tailor-made for someone in the audience that you have never had a conversation with or goes through your mind? And how does it feel to be used by God every Sunday to give a message to people who might desperately need it?
00:34:22
Speaker
um Well, the truth of the matter is I do not give a message every Sunday. I give a message, you know, once in a while. I gave one this past Sunday and one two weeks ago. Nice. And I've made a schedule in which um younger adults in the church can come and then give messages so it's just not me. um the area so they They are also developing the skill of preaching and teaching the gospel and at least teaching some of the messages. um But it's it's straightforward. but This time of the year we're doing a lot of
00:34:55
Speaker
what you call havests. So this harvest is celebrations of each parish. And in those harvest celebrations, there's there's usually the central message, which is the final harvest. And we we deal with a message in and the Old Testament and a message in the New Testament. So for like a few months in a year, we're talking about this. It's almost, and all throughout your life, you've heard a few variations of this.
00:35:22
Speaker
And you you all you just have it at the back of your mind. ah And then you don't really have to prepare that anymore. What you're now preparing is the questions the children might and have for you, and which can be on anything at all. And you just pray that the Lord put your words in my mouth. And you know so I may be able to speak and not my kind of thoughts, but yours be spoken. And that's how you deal with that.
00:35:47
Speaker
okay But so ultimately you read the Bible throughout the whole week in hopes of something relevant. This is something that I've i been curious to ask someone else, right? and One of the reasons why I at least started this podcast is because I couldn't help but realize the amount of Christians that I've encountered.
00:36:09
Speaker
who have a hard time or or don't see the value of reading the Bible, right? and They're having hard times opening it. They're having issues with the translations. Now, I don't know how you feel. Maybe you could tell me. I've been a proponent over the years of embracing different translations, mainly because maybe I know the message that is trying to convey.
00:36:32
Speaker
And other ways I feel that the main portion of what the translation is trying to provide I think is extremely important. I know there are people out there that are King James only. I understand that. But to me, the most essential thing that has to happen is that we understand at least the universal message within the scriptures about it's all connected us back to Jesus.
00:36:54
Speaker
And I i found that regardless of the translation, there are different translations that are extremely helpful when you want to share a message to the masses. And there are certain translations that if you're not being careful, the the way it's been interpreted and how it interferes with the original language can be problematic, right? And I'm pretty sure we've heard different things like the NIV.
00:37:17
Speaker
is aligned with how the demon Bible was written. The same person owns that, right? We see all these different speculative things about the scriptures. So I guess for you, what has been what has worked for you with young people in in regards to encouraging them to read the Bible? And what are some of your thoughts about the different translations and how has it helped you or hasn't helped you in your experience in reading the Bible? That's a very controversial question.
00:37:46
Speaker
um So my my church, we do the KJV and the new KJV version. um i'm a read those two and I listen to them with audio and I find that actually very helpful because you can hear the the d intonations and the sound of and the you know the the tone in which the message is being spoken. It's been read. So I encourage people to do that as well. I encourage them to listen to the audio if they're struggling to to understand the text. And if they don't understand the audio and the text, they can pick any version they want.
00:38:23
Speaker
and they can try again and at the time. And the important thing is you get the message and you understand what's being said. um There are definitely variations of the Bible that says, confess your sins to one another. And that's in James 5. And then in different variations, you see something else. So there are different variations that that that tend to happen. But I don't think for anyone that's just starting out as a Christian, that really is much of a difference to you. because we have language, the Bible is translated in several languages around the world from
00:38:59
Speaker
As a matter of fact, there was a man called some homology Crowder translated the English to your brain in a couple of years, some way of a dagger. And many people only know the Euro, but does that mean that they lent it in KJ view and n KJ doesn't even matter at this point because every language has its own understanding of different words. And it's the, it's the intent that the Holy sh Spirit again, it's the interpreter of the Bible. It's not just the read a powerful bar at a second time, you might be dealing with a certain situation.
00:39:27
Speaker
And then the Holy Spirit can bring an interpretation unique to you and that situation. Not that you're going to share that situation now and share the got to that as the New Gospel, but you understand that this bring is bringing you comfort. This is bringing you you know joy. This is bringing you whatever it is. The Holy Spirit knows you need. God knows you need it at that time. So the Bible is a living, breathing text.
00:39:49
Speaker
And we should treat it as such because it is alive. it is you know It talks to you when you open it at any time. It's also probably... I used to struggle with it with remembering things that' at some point, but reading the Bible more is has changed that for me. um I no longer have the struggles I used to have in remembering words, you remembering certain things. ah I feel like it's rewiring my brain to should do the certain things. And I think it's also good for the vocabulary if you do stick to one or more, um knowing how different languages and you
00:40:25
Speaker
ah translated and and also getting a better understanding of the English language as well. So I don't have a ah strong answer on that. KJV, no KJV, just pray to God and tell him, you know, speak to me as I open this Bible yeah in whatever language that's comfortable to you, you know, whatever translation, make sure your heart is pure and be really ready to, you know, receive the the message you're reading and then you'll be fine.
00:40:51
Speaker
Amen. Because at least, so there's a past that I love, I think it's 1 John chapter 2, verse 27. And I believe it says, but you have received the Holy Spirit and He lives within you. And I believe it says, so you don't need anyone to teach you what is true. For the Spirit teaches you everything that you need to know. And what He teaches is true. And I believe it says, it is not a lie. So just as He has talked to you, remain in fellowship with Christ, right? I even, I even love the passage, I think it's Luke 11, 28, it says, blessed and highly favored. This is the Amplified version. So it's like different portions of it. Well, it's like, I'm drawn to it, right? It says, blessed and highly favored of those who hear my words,
00:41:36
Speaker
or hear my word rather and continually observe it. So to me, it's very direct, very specific right to the point and it's very much well understood, especially as you articulate it to someone else, right? So this is something about, I give you one more that comes to mind.
00:41:54
Speaker
I love it in the NLT. I believe it's, I think it's Matthew 7-7. Action, you shall receive, seeking, you will find, knocking the door open to you. But the NLT says, keep on action, keep on seeking, keep on knocking. Because that means if we're reading it and we do it one time, some people stop.
00:42:13
Speaker
They say, I don't got to do it anymore. No, but the translation is saying, keep on doing it, because what is it? I think it's Galatians 6, 9. Don't become weary in doing good for we will reap a harvest if you don't give up. So that continuation process of desiring to want more and learn more from God, he may not re reveal it to you in that moment, but it's definitely coming. It's coming in a timely manner where you're going to need it the most. I'll connect one more passage this that comes to mind.
00:42:42
Speaker
When Jesus told his disciples, he said to them, I have many things to tell you, but you can't bear them now. I think he's speaking to the maturity of where they were at that moment. And it doesn't mean that eventually they won't get what it is that he has for them. But he's tailoring what do he wants to share with them and understanding that it's about maturity. It's about a continuation of growth. So you feel you to really come to what it is that you eventually are going to be in Christ. And to that, he can't just tell you everything, right? It'll overwhelm you, it'll overpower you. You won't be you know you won't be in the right place for God to utilize you and and have you bless others, especially if if if you can't if you can't live life
00:43:27
Speaker
in the way in which God wants us to do. And that's to draw that is specifically to be, I believe it's a passage where he says, be holy is that for I am holy, right? Set apart, right? It also means like to be- Yeah, I think the way they explain it is to elevate yourself from which way you once came, the dust of the earth, right? He wants us to elevate from where we once were created, right? When God blew the breath of life into us, and he wants us to be above that now. And that has everything to do with him shaping and following us. Yes. So this brings me this brings you to and the next question.
00:44:06
Speaker
that comes, that came across my mind that I was curious to ask you about. And that is, you know, when it comes to conversations with people who are not necessarily, you know, interested in the gospel, right? But they're there.
00:44:29
Speaker
do you take that as an opportunity not to cash your pearls out to swine or or do you see it as a moment where you know god hasn't put them in a place to want to receive what it is that i'm going to share with them where do you follow the lines of that because you do have pastors that you do have street pastors, right? You do have people that go out each and every day who claim that God has put it on their heart to share the gospel. And I always wonder, do you think that they're wasting their time? Do you think there's a purpose for that? where Where do you fall on the lines when it comes to that? So I think i think we we serve a God that is sovereign and understands and sees all things.
00:45:18
Speaker
And it's an instruction to one, it's not the it's not the instruction for all. So I think there's ari ass a space for street pastors, just not in the way that many people see it. So they could be there for their own selves.
00:45:33
Speaker
they could be dead because the Lord would rather have them there than doing anything else. And His instructed them to stay in that corner because, you know, maybe one day they might say someone who knows, maybe this is to make sure that they remain saved. Some people are called to pastor for that reason as well, because without that opportunity to be in the presence of God every day, they might not have a the choice. They might just have such a strong inclination to saying that they drift off. So God has a way of doing things that have been under understanding. um And it's also possible that once in a while, the the message has been shown for the next great, you know, preacher, even as it locally preaching and his in his local parish in a local corner somewhere. And every day, he's quoting the Bible and someone is like, I want to do that thing that man is doing. And they just take it to heart and they they become, you know,
00:46:31
Speaker
the coming great preacher in the future. So there are ways that God does his things, even throughout the Bible. They see how he he planned the birth of Christ Jesus. And it was, you know, in ways that you cannot really explain, you know, this had to happen for that to happen for this to happen. yeah And even when Herod tried to kill the babies, God allowed it, but Christ was already in Egypt. So, yeah.
00:46:57
Speaker
So the ways God works that we cannot comprehend, we cannot understand, but it's it's very important not to limit God in how he does just things because we don't see the full picture. We don't see the bigger picture. So yeah that's that's the answer to that question.
00:47:13
Speaker
Yeah, because I appreciate what you're saying. I think the past is that comes to mind. I pretty much sums up what you're saying. I think it's Philippians one. I think it's 15 to 18. It says it is true that some priest cries out envy, rivalry, but others out of goodwill, the latter do so out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. The former preached Christ had a selfish ambition, not sincerely supposing that they can start trouble for me while I'm in chains. But what doesn't matter, the important thing is that in every way, chaing cost whether false motives are true, Christ is preaching because of that rejoice. So yeah, I appreciate that perspective. So from reading the scriptures, ah how long would you say you've been studying God's word reading the scriptures?
00:48:01
Speaker
How long has it been for you now? I think properly since the pandemic or after the pandemic was over, around the ending of it. And then I started, you know, I think God put me in a place where I can make things worse worse for you or he can just read the Bible. yeah And I just, you know what, I'm going to give it, I'm going to read this Bible. Then I started watching sermons on YouTube at my leisure and seeing some very good um preachers on on on online.
00:48:31
Speaker
And then after a while I would move to different types of features. And then I just, you know, had to spend some more time listening to the audio version of the Bible and then teaching it myself.
00:48:42
Speaker
Okay, so I guess the question that I have for you is in that context, are there any passages that you read at that point, and you were completely clueless and now that you read it, maybe your perspective has changed. Maybe you have a different outlook, maybe you heard it preached one way and now is your eyes are completely open to a much more advanced approach or a much more simple approach, you can share anything that at least that comes to mind.
00:49:08
Speaker
Yeah, I think Revelation's 120. I don't think I understood the fact that no one really has an excuse as to not understanding who God is through His creation, whether or not they receive the gospel fervently or strongly in their faces, because the Bible clearly states there that nature is proof of God existence. And no one can use that as an excuse to not know He existed because to look at Acts 10 or 11, Cornelius, he just doesn't know who Jesus Christ is, just knows there's a true God somewhere. And in a vision to him, they tell him, call for Peter. And he calls for Peter, and Peter is receiving a different vision on his side. And he doesn't really know what it means, but he is in his self-righteousness saying, I've never eaten swine before, I've never eaten unclean.
00:50:05
Speaker
And then they cross their parts and they both we go through something life changing for both of them. Cornelius is a saved through worshiping God by himself. and And Peter is now begins to understand the the work that has to be done for the Gentiles. Also can also see Abraham in which God calls him. And he tells him to move away from the land to Israel Island, I will give you. And he does that immediately in God.
00:50:36
Speaker
rewards him over the time, but not immediately. We also see Melchizedek, who we don't know his entire origin, but it was a priest of God, and there was no Christianity at the time. He was pretty much the first that we really hear outside, you know, pre, after noir. So we see, we see cases like that, and God will always keep finding his people, his remnants, no matter how bad things are in, you know, the situation. And everyone We can't say we never had a chance. If your heart is in the right place, God would find you. If your heart is capable of receiving the message, God would send someone. you know the you just yeah sorry And if you just sit down yourself and just look at nature, you will just come to the conclusion, even as a child who's behind all of this. yeah And you start asking those questions.
00:51:30
Speaker
Yeah, because i've I've always heard, you know, coming from a philosophy background, there's always been this attachment to say that God is the reason for our existing God is the creator of all things, that that's a lazy approach to an explanation. But I normally attach Rockham, I think it's Occam's theory to that, is that something that's as reasonable and understood, as clear as day, is normally the correct answer.
00:51:56
Speaker
I'm not using this example that if a guy is interested in a girl but the girl is constantly not communicating or the girl who can't be found, you know, the loyal, generous gentleman is going to make excuses and those excuses eventually will be unreasonable.
00:52:16
Speaker
But if that person is not communicating and they can't be found, then it's obvious. And the obvious thing is is that she's no longer interested. She might be doing something that is... you know the difference there's a difference There's a difference between a benevolent spirit and a benevolent spirit.
00:52:32
Speaker
Right? The spirit that causes problems of chaos, worries, that's not from God. That's questionable. The spirit in which a person who has a desire to, you know, check on you, see how you're doing, those sorts of things at least are rooted in those that actually care.
00:52:51
Speaker
right And I think more or less we encounter people that are either desiring for your benefit or desiring to try to rule over you in some way, conquer you in some way, create a issue. And we find out in Provis Six, right when he talks about hands that send in innocent blood, you know those who go around causing trouble.
00:53:11
Speaker
all the eyes. Those are the types of people that come into environments and situations that you are and you're involved in and cause you concern, worry, and doesn't bring any sort of security or comfort to you. right And we we picked that up over a period of time. But there was something that you said that struck a hole in me, and I guess I want to have your thoughts on it.
00:53:33
Speaker
you know I always felt that ignorance is not an acceptable defense to God, and it's definitely not an acceptable defense in court. right And you were mentioning the passage, I think you said, Revelation is 120, that you are without an excuse. The first passage- No, Romans is 120. Okay, there you go. Because that's exactly what I was going to read. The portion where it talks about God's judgments and the laws, when you get to verse 12, so that's for all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and those who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. For when the Gentiles who do not have the law by nature do what the law requires, they are a law for themselves.
00:54:21
Speaker
So even though they do not have the law, they show that the works of the law is written on their hearts while their conscience also bear witness and conflicting thoughts, accusing of even excuses to them. So on that day, when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus, I always say, like whether you choose to read the Bible, you choose not to read the Bible. If you choose to read the Bible,
00:54:44
Speaker
like like like Paul says, right righteousness, eternal life is for you. If you choose not to read the Bible, that doesn't mean that you're going to be excluded from the wrath of God because Christ's blood and protection is what keeps you from the wrath of God, relationships is what keeps you from the wrath of God. So I find it fascinating to me that people would read that and and of course not choose God, right? Deliberately ignore the warning that's being mentioned here, right? The scripture's clear that God is not a man that he shall lie, that God's the same, Jesus is the same yesterday, today, forever. So when we read passages like that, it's the the declaration to me that
00:55:28
Speaker
defining that's unchanging, that's unwavering. And yet, for whatever reason, I've met so many atheists who think that when they go see their maker, they're going to have a conversation, and that conversation is going to end up with them being right. And I'm like the arrogance, right? The the the the thought that any of that is going to change what their destiny is due to the fact that they've chosen it, right? We know we know that ah angel that we know the hell was not created for you. However, it was created for the devil and his angels. So I guess when you and when you encounter people who have a level of arrogance, who think that what's been stated in that book is going to come to the pass, right? Eventually it's going to come to pass or it's actually coming to pass now in little instances. Why do you think people have no regard and continue to think that
00:56:22
Speaker
none of those things that is being said and that we read today have any meaning of significance to them. So I think people enjoy the life that they live and they don't like a disruption to to that. They enjoy the life of sin, don't like anything that messes with that. They life they enjoy the life of you know no consequences beyond the state laws and the under federal laws um because, you know,
00:56:51
Speaker
They are no longer children. They want to be free. And it's the rebellion to authority that is so, you know, it's the central theme of the Bible in which you know Adam and Eve started it all. That is innate in and and the being of man. It's a natural setting. And there has to be some part of us that is interested in finding out why we serve values or why people this evil on the wall and if you i think if you're rationally just sit down and think about why people we could or why why would someone do that or why is this happening this way or why is they hunger here you know why is there a war right there and who benefits from all this you you would you will come to conclusion that this evil behind all this what does evil come from
00:57:43
Speaker
And it's not a very far conclusion to just be like, they has to be good and always beyond good. And how can I differentiate good from evil? And it's just, it's an easy, you know, line of reasoning ah yeah that I did maybe when I was six or seven. But even though I didn't know kind of a personal relationship with Christ, I knew God existed. You know, I've had that relationship, I've had that understanding since.
00:58:11
Speaker
and And I think if anyone has time and is not so busy, you know, with the with the pressures of of life, they would also have the opportunity to think about that. And the same with the Cornelius and anybody else in the Bible was able to hear from God directly, Abraham, Noah, you know, and many others.
00:58:31
Speaker
We also are all given the opportunity, even in this very busy life that we live in, this very busy world, which is information all the time in our faces. We don't have any excuse really. you know yeah Just think about evil and you should get to the fact that it is good as a creator somewhere when you see nature.
00:58:53
Speaker
it's It's straightforward. And then Jesus will come in later on. Amen. So what can you say reading God's Word has changed? How has it changed your life? Can you point out anything specifically in particular that has changed? so So, for example, fear. 1 Timothy 7 says, we're not giving this read of fear, we're following this online. Every time I feel and a bit of anxiety, which I was feeling a lot in the pandemic. I realized that has nothing to do with with God, which is me not trusting in God's plans for my life. And I'm easily able to recite that, that verse. And, you know, it's it just goes away. Then I realized, you know,
00:59:38
Speaker
um It's as simple as as reading the scripture every day, Ephesians 6 says, six says um in addition to when the full arm of God, which is one of which is a sword of the spirit, we should pray every day at all times and every situation, every season for all the saints around the world. But the sword of the spirit, which is the word of God, is the little only way a Christian can fight any battle that includes, you know, depression, sadness, sickness, anxiety, you know,
01:00:07
Speaker
Just quoting the scripture and having that in your prayer as you pray is a strong thing for every Christian to do. and And the more I learn as a Christian that all I need to do is recite the promises of God to him, recite the scripture to him and work in obedience and everything will be fine no matter how the situation is at that time, Christ will be with me. um It makes everything seem a lot easier, a lot simpler, a lot more clearer, a lot more direct. you know um And then with that, you're given sort of a more gifts. and The Lord gives you more gifts ah to use. You're now more discerning. And then the fruits began to develop. You're a lot more patient with someone that you would just walk away from um when they started acting a certain way. You know youre not you don't take anything to heart because you know there might be something else behind us. Most likely is something else behind you know whatever provocation you're dealing with at the time.
01:01:07
Speaker
you know the reason you're angry is because this has probably happened and you know and that's okay you know sometimes you can't control the stains or you know we know something happened to you as a child and that has i've left you you know permanently dealing with certain situations so in same manner so you never take anything too personal um you know anymore um you lend to the more and more you read the bible the more you understand how we feel and how easy it is to to straight away it's just a natural wave of things i just want to add to that too there's something i realized that even in part in reading the scripture
01:01:50
Speaker
having a clear indication of how certain things are going to play out. That doesn't necessarily mean that we have the capacity to respond appropriately the way the scripture says all the time, right? Because we're human. We're still trying to transform ourselves by the renewing of our mind. And that takes constantly reading the scriptures. And that doesn't happen overnight, right? There are levels to this, right? We live our lives on levels and we arrive in stages and it happens in seasons and that doesn't necessarily go for it the same way across the board for everybody else. So I just want to be clear that even in part in reading the scripture is giving us perspective on how to respond appropriately, right? Which means more or less, I think the fear that most people have about reading the scriptures is that the more you read it and consume it, the more you held accountable about what you read, right? You no longer can say I'm ignorant to it because now you have a higher standard of how you're supposed to respond and how you're supposed to react. And the question is, are you going to do it or you're not going to do it, right? And I think that's always been the challenge for the believer. I wholeheartedly take what James says
01:02:58
Speaker
about, it's like looking to the mirror and forgetting what we look like. The challenge is applying what it is that we read. And I don't think any of us can say sincerely that we've applied all the things that we've read in scripture on a continuous basis. I think we have on and off moments where we're striving to be like Christ and we're having inconsistencies. And I think that's just a beautiful aspect of repentance is that the more and more we strive, we have the opportunity to repent. And we're not saying the repentance of abusiveness. We're not using repentance and abusiveness, but we're recognizing that there's something in some way to repent from each and every day, whether it's something that I'm thinking about, whether it's something that I want to do, that I thought about, and whether it's something that I did and I completely missed it.
01:03:49
Speaker
So at least to me, I try, this is going to move into the next question I have to you about prayer. I always pray and I said, Lord, forgive me for the things that I did intentionally or unintentionally. The things that I did purposely or un-purposely, right? Because even though we might glance at it and ourselves say, ah I might've thought about that. God knows the heart, right? And we know that God is greater than the heart. When he talks about that at first John,
01:04:18
Speaker
And if the heart condemns us, God is greater than our hearts, which means if our hearts is the ones that's doing it, you best believe God already knows, right? so that So that leads me to ask you about prayer. There's something again that I've i've come across a lot is people's inability and uncomfortability to pray. And I guess my opinion, or ah my it's not my opinion, Ryder, but my question to you is,
01:04:44
Speaker
How have you gotten better at prayer? What are some things maybe you can suggest for people out there that struggle with it? um I think the easiest way is is to find a group that prays. So the way two or three are guarded, I am there.
01:05:03
Speaker
um Whatever you and whenever you bind will be bound in heaven, whatever you lose will be loosed in heaven So it's it's it's finding because iron also shafts higher like there's so many Scripture that tells you that you cannot do it alone You find a group of like-minded people Jesus used um Had 12 disciples had four that were very close to him and he You know would take you took those four to the get into the guy and no good ceremony to pray with him But yeah, prayer is of course the master key, the Bible says, but it's it's probably one of those things you should get used to doing with others around. So how that happens is up to you. You find a local church.
01:05:47
Speaker
um Hebrews 10, 20, 25, I believe says, do not neglect the gathering of the saints. um So we are commanded to instruct it to find somewhere local that we are rooted in so that we can also be watered as we are the others, um because it's it's necessary um to grow with the group, to grow as and as a pack.
01:06:14
Speaker
So if we are able to find people that we can pray with that are also reading the scripture together um so that the the prayers are you in not alignment with the will of God in alignment with the scripture so you're not praying for things like the death of your enemies or whatever it is people pray for make sure that it's aligned to the scripture and the more you pray the more you can imbibe the scripture in your prayer and make sure that you are not you you're seeing less of your request and pretty much just you know um um
01:06:44
Speaker
seeing the scriptures and on the Word of God back to Him. And also making making sure that whatever it is that we pray for is aligned to His will, by making sure our hearts are pure, that we're forgiven, all those that have wronged us. And also I also think the easiest mode of prayer in the Bible is the last prayer. said Christ teaches how to pray, and He just told them the mode in which to pray.
01:07:11
Speaker
And if you're struggling at any time to pray, say the Lord's Prayer. And if you are not sure, say it again. And say it again until you're fine with that. And then you can also modify that and make it a lengthy prayer that you would have just ah to be able to say. And and throughout the Bible, there's several prayers. In the book of Psalms,
01:07:36
Speaker
There's a list of prayers, phrases, you know songs, hymns, some composed by David, Sullivan, some by Moses. And we can always pick those and just read them um as well. So the there are many ways in which you can improve your prayer life. You can also just pray the simple prayer that you ask God to empower you.
01:07:58
Speaker
to pray that He teach you, empower you, capture the focus, remind you to pray. And we do that as well over time, but we have to be obedient as is reminding us to do these things. Yeah. Amen. You said so many amazing things there. I just wanted to add to it. I think what's helped me in my journey of improving my prayer is talking to God and having a conversation, right? Everything you've mentioned, I agree with the the element of as you continue to be a student of God's word, repeating his word back to him and holding him accountable to it, right? If he is a God that he should not lie, then that means things that you request from him. It may not be in the timing that you need it, but best believe he heard it. And if he heard it, either it's something he's going to approve or there's something he's not going to approve. And if he's not going to approve it, it's definitely for your benefit, right? Not every prayer that we ask, we get answers to, but those reasons why you didn't get answers to it is because maybe
01:08:54
Speaker
You haven't matured enough for the thing that you're asking him. Or maybe there are certain things that God has to move around and prepare so that you can ultimately have it. and And there's just no way of telling what that is. But we have to be faithful and we have to trust that God knows what's best, right? I think it's Romans 8.28, all things work together for those who love the Lord and according to God. yes We have to really, really get a hold and an understanding of that. And the last thing we can't do is this.
01:09:24
Speaker
is point and point at God for the things that aren't working out for us, right? We have to stay true to waiting and seeing how things play out and learning. So like I said, you laid out an excellent way of praying and intentionally and even thought you mentioned just the the portions of going to the Psalms.
01:09:49
Speaker
right, revisiting the Lord's Prayer and taking the time to understand those different prayers that these men prayed at in moments and times and situations in the crisis, right? So now that we're coming down to the end of it, because we could probably do this all day, right? There's so many different things I can ask your perspective on.
01:10:09
Speaker
I guess the as we we come down to a close here, I guess the one of the questions that I guess further that I would like to ask is, do you see yourself ever realizing with all that you've learned and all that you've studied the possibility of ever losing your faith in God? Would that ever be an option? And if it's not an option, why not at this point in your life?
01:10:41
Speaker
I think one of the benefits of of being a Christian and going as one is um I think in the Bible we see Paul had someone who was working with him and then he had turned away and that usually happens when that person never really comes to full understanding of God and comes to a full you know doesn't have any encounters does not you know see the miracles like the benefit of being a Christian is Once you start, you keep saying things that just remind you, that make it impossible for you to just turn back. Job 3315 says, he speaks to us in our dreams, reminding, worrying us of what, of the things that are, you know, things that will happen and things that are not given us signs and one is in our dreams. And I think dreams are one of those things that we ignore as Christians, but
01:11:36
Speaker
God still uses that to communicate. We have visions of as well as revelations and that God uses. We have the scripture that God uses. We have testimonies of others that you see across online, on TV, in person. like it's it It becomes harder and harder to deny or move away when you surround yourselves with these people, with these things, with this conversation, when you read the scripture. If you read the book of the Acts of the Apostles, how many miracles were there? they And then you see them happening around you. And it's it's it's just harder to like, it's it doesn't make sense to live the faith. It doesn't. It's not something
01:12:18
Speaker
that should be possible after a certain stage. Like in the beginning, yes. And I think there's one time I prayed this prayer, you know, Lord, um whatever blessings you give me in this world, I do not like I don't want to be too much that it it distracts me from being able to worship you. Because ah One thing I've noticed about people that get to a level of of ah financial comfort, yeah fame, whatever it is, they begin to rely on themselves, begin to think, and it only when...
01:12:51
Speaker
Calamity, catastrophe heats them personally. Then they remember that he's a god, and I never want to have to deal with that. like if If that comes, which is possible, of course, to any Christian, a sovereign, in spite of this is this journey, um I want to be, ah or still be in the faith, and not having to try to climb back up know to deal with that. yeah um so Because there are good times and there are bad times, and what are you going to do when those bad times happen?
01:13:20
Speaker
Do you then start remembering who God is? ah Do you yeah you you want to make sure the the the the preacher told us in the book of Ecclesiastes, Ecclesiastes, that there's a time for everything. There's a time to mourn, to to be the time to have it, the time to be sad. And there are different times, the time to harvest, the time to sow. Like you don't know, you cannot see, you don't know what's going on at every time. And if you somehow abandon their faith and then you make it big and that's even worse, what happens then? That's how many people are you going to lead it straight as well? Amen, man. That's some good stuff. I agree with you.
01:14:06
Speaker
One thing I want to ask about what you about what you mentioned in there is worship, right? and I've come across so many Christians who have a hard time with that.
01:14:22
Speaker
worshiping God. And I think they're talking about specifically song and worship, right? And we we know there's different ways you can worship God. And we could we could talk about Colossians 23 to 24, right? we could We could talk about so many different things. What was it, Corinthians? It says, do all things to the glory of the God. of all things to glory of god Why do you think people struggle with worship? Is it because they they like the fancy? Because you know you do have some churches who have the fancy equipment.
01:14:55
Speaker
the gospel artists. But yet, when it comes to their ability to worship God, they're concerned about the person next to them. They're concerned about how they may look. if Am I worshiping right? Do I have my hands aligned in a certain way? Am I loud? right ah What is your take? At least I would love to understand. What is your take of worship?
01:15:19
Speaker
Yeah, so I think that brings us back to our first question at the start of this whole conversation about the difference between the African Orthodox Church that I grew up in and I still attend the Association of Christ and worse than American churches. It's worship is central to the entire service. As a matter of fact, the entire service is called a worship, Sunday worship service. And then because everything you're doing, you're doing them on your knees, you're kneeling down, you're bowing up, you're standing up, singing the hymns, you kneel down. But the first, you know, hour, 30 minutes of the service.
01:15:52
Speaker
and you You sing all the hymns and then you kneel down almost immediately after that. So it you you get to revere God and understand that he is the do of all things.
01:16:05
Speaker
he's the you know How would be your name? you know You do that throughout the service, now through a huge portion of the service. So it's almost like you you can't really avoid that unless you're coming late intentionally every day, every Sunday, every weekday service. Because we have two weekday services, Wednesday and Friday. And if you choose to come late every time for those services,
01:16:26
Speaker
then you're not really yet to worship God. And that makes it easier for us to, for you to know who is here for this and who is here for the music. Cause that happens later on, we do some things given and then the music happens. We even have guest artists, you know, music bus will answer, sing it.
01:16:42
Speaker
And some of them also do the same thing when coming late. they you know But the the actual worship itself is sometimes missed by a lot of people, even in my church. And they they don't like it. It's slow. It's not quick enough. It's not enjoyable. It's not fast enough. you know allder you know It's not as enjoyable as they want it to be.
01:17:04
Speaker
um And all those excuses people come up with that, you know, you sort of should lose once you when she stopped being a child. It's one of the benefits in the school because you're in your room with other kids doing this kind of thing and you don't you don't lose the interest in that. um But yes, ultimately, it is a lazy an excuse that we we can't use in our church, but in the West, if you're not used to that, then it's it's more, you know, palatable, like we keep on reducing it, it seems, and focusing in on what looks like a current type of services with a pastor coming after that to preach, or I don't know how it really works, but yeah, that's not something
01:17:46
Speaker
it's It's a matter of the heart. So amen whoever wants to worship would worship in history and truth. And that's and should worship in history and truth. So it's it's it's down to the person. So if someone wants to worship God, they will find somewhere where worship is a thing. You know, it's a part of the service. Okay. Yeah, I never do that.
01:18:07
Speaker
Yeah. Amen. Amen. All right. So we come down to the end of our conversation. And man, John, I want to thank you so much for jumping on. I feel like you've shared quite a lot of gems. If anyone's interested in in being a part of your church or join it, can you get out an address of opportunity for someone to come visit if they're interested?
01:18:27
Speaker
Yes, my church is in New Jersey, 46 Weber Avenue, Ewing, New Jersey. um And there many of the churches, if you can just google them online, you can go to any celestial church of Christ worldwide in several different countries around the world. And if you want to worship with us, you're welcome to worship with us at 10 a.m. on a Sunday.
01:18:47
Speaker
Amen. Okay. So I really appreciate the opportunity that we've had to talk about God's word. I've learned more and more about you through your relationship with God and anything else. I know where we met. It was at a work event. It's amazing because God can connect us surprisingly in so many different ways that we can never even think or imagine. And with that being said, man, again, thank you so much. God bless. And if you don't mind closing out with prayer with us today.
01:19:16
Speaker
Yes, Jehovah, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit. We thank you and worship you, O Lord, for the grace and virtue of the opportunity to share the gospel, talk about my my my saving, O Lord, that you have saved me, O Lord. I thank you, O Lord, for it.
01:19:30
Speaker
O Lord, we thank You, O Lord, for those watching at this time that will watch in the future. Thank You, O Lord, for this would help them, I hope, at some time, at some point in their lives, O Lord, that You bring them closer to You and that You shape them more in the image of Christ. And O Lord, I thank You, O Lord, for Jonathan, that O Lord, that You keep on to strengthening Him, to continue to do this work that You have called Him to do, that You give Him, O Lord, continually the resources to do this, the forever, O Lord, that You keep granted to Him always.
01:20:00
Speaker
But our Lord, we put everyone watching and ourselves and in your hands a lot. We thank you for our lives, O Lord. Let it always be aligned to a will forevermore. In Jesus mighty name, I pray. and man Amen. Amen.