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Alex Kraev "Punked"
41 Plays2 years ago
Alex Kraev is a musical multi-talent who gave his soul to punk rock. He plays the drums, bass, and guitar in multiple bands and is an absolute musical powerhouse. His influences are many, but his goal is one and the same: to challenge stereotypes and self-imposed laziness of body and mind. His music is loud and gets under your skin. Challenging riffs, vocal cascades, energetic rhythms and climactic melodies tear you out of your comfort zone, sharpen your senses and abduct your body before they spit you out on the cold, ashen, concrete ground of human construction - only to find yourself naked, lusting for more. No more comfort, only raw emotion. Thank you very much!
Punk, in its conception, has always been about protest and societal unrest, a mirror to the polished, self-righteous facade of civil society and, therefore, at the root of democracy - at least, according to me. Sid Vicious, the godfather of punk, said this once: "Undermine their pompous authority, reject their moral standards, make anarchy and disorder your trademarks. Cause as much chaos and disruption as possible but don't let them take you ALIVE." How this translates to the war in Ukraine and the simultaneous democratic process, I will discuss with Alex today! I am so happy to have you on board!
SHOW NOTES
Sid Vicious
Sex Pistols
Odessa Grain Shipments
Kalush Orkestra
The Offspring
Black Fly
NoFX
Bad Religion
Greenday
Simple Plan
Yellowcard
Radio Havanna
Black Flag
Bezlad
ALEX' FACEBOOK
https://www.facebook.com/LeXXKraev
ALEX' MUSIC & BANDS
ВІДСІЧ
FLAME
RAGTAG
CONCRETE CONTROL
REDEMPTION
Дело Дрянь
ALEX NEXT SHOW
More Music Club
DONATIONS
Alex' Volunteer Org
Their Facebook
MUSIC
Love In The Face Of Fear, Jim Kroft
Yellow Van Stories is a Mind The Bump Production
Yellow Van Stories is a Mind the Bump Production.
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Transcript
Introduction and Context
00:00:04
Speaker
There is one major problem that I think we should be solving for any bridges to even have the potential to exist is current Russian society having no subjectivity whatsoever. And so fighting propaganda and establishing that personality and personal freedom and personal thoughts is basically the nature of punk rock, right? So if you think about it, just having strong punk scene
00:00:34
Speaker
in Russia, that would be exactly what we need to start the further conversation. Hello and welcome to a new episode of the Yellow Van Stories. We are so happy and grateful that you have made the time today to come on board with us. I'm your host and driver Bastian. We have been waiting just for you and kept your usual seat by the window side.
00:00:59
Speaker
After Russia's invasion of Ukraine, the topic of the second season became very clear to us. We decided to invite Ukrainians into the van to share their stories with us and to learn more about Ukraine's cultural identity. Because too often it has been appropriated by a chauvinistic Russian narrative.
00:01:19
Speaker
the same narrative that is now serving as it pretends to the war.
Ukrainian Cultural Identity and Support
00:01:24
Speaker
Supporting Ukraine in our opinion therefore has a very strong cultural dimension as well. Fonzies in first gear ready and we are good to go so buckle up and sit back because today we're going to meet Alex in Odessa.
00:01:45
Speaker
Hello and welcome to a new episode of The Elephant Stories. And here with us today is Alex Kreyev, a musical multi-talent and powerhouse from Odessa in Ukraine. Great to have you with us, Alex. Hello. Hello, and thanks for having me.
00:02:00
Speaker
It's so nice to have you. I already just told you when we opened up for the recording that I've been listening to your music all day. And I absolutely love it. You are part of multiple bands and you gave me a link to I think most of them or some of them, I don't know.
Meet Alex Kreyev: Punk Rocker from Odessa
00:02:17
Speaker
And it was such a pleasure for me to drive today and listen to the music. So it's just great to have you with me today and talk a little bit about your music and punk rock in general, because that's really where you're coming from.
00:02:30
Speaker
Yes yes yes I'm coming from a punk rock background I probably sent you like all of my bands I think there is a lot in the weekend but there are no recordings yet so there would be just nothing to send but in general if you've heard it you probably heard all of it and yeah it's always my pleasure to talk about music especially you know
00:02:50
Speaker
In current times, it's definitely vibrant to have it around. Absolutely. And I can't wait to hear, to wait for the new recordings. Please keep me in line for any updates on that. I will, and subscribe to Spotify, you know. Thanks for streaming services.
00:03:10
Speaker
That's a very good point. Yes, absolutely. If I haven't done that, I will do that. Obviously, I will link to all of that also in the show notes so that everybody can listen to the music and get an impression for themselves, which is obviously very important. It's music after all. You got to feel it. So where are you right now, Alex? I said you're from Odessa. You are in Odessa right now. I'm in Odessa, Ukraine right now, yeah.
00:03:32
Speaker
I'm going to just read out a little bit of an introduction to you quickly. Then you can just let me know if I have grossly, grossly misrepresented you or if you can, if you can in any way see yourself in what I've written and then we'll jump right into our conversation. All right. You're ready for it. Yep. Yep. Okay.
00:03:51
Speaker
Eddyk Skrajev is a musical multi-talent who gave his soul to punk rock. He plays the drums, bass and guitar in multiple bands and is an absolute musical powerhouse. His influences are many, but his goal is one and the same, to challenge stereotypes and self-imposed laziness of body and mind.
00:04:10
Speaker
His music is loud and gets under your skin. Challenging riffs, vocal cascades, energetic rhythms and climactic melodies tear you out of your comfort zone, sharpen your senses and abduct your body before they spit you out on the cold, ashen concrete ground of human construction, only to find yourself naked, lusting for
Punk as Protest: Relevance and Resilience
00:04:27
Speaker
more. No more comfort, only raw emotion. Thank you very much.
00:04:31
Speaker
Punk and his conception has always been about protests and social unrest, a mirror to the polished self-righteous facade of civil society and therefore at the root of democracy, at least according to me. Sid Vicious, one of the godfathers of punk, said this once,
00:04:47
Speaker
undermine their pompous authority, reject their moral standards, make anarchy and disorder your trademarks, cause as much chaos and disruption as possible, but don't let them take your life. How this translates to the current situation, Ukraine and the war and the simultaneous democratic process, I'd love to discuss with Alex today. And therefore, I'm very happy to have you on board. Welcome to the Yellow Van, Alex.
00:05:12
Speaker
Thank you. Thank you. This is a great summary. This is a great summary. I mean, a lot of it is intraprenational, right? So I cannot say anything to that. And Sid Vicious would probably not be my first guide to reference if it comes to my preferences. But since it's your next time, I'm totally happy with it. Who would be yours? That would be interesting. Let's go right in there. Who would be your first post to reference?
00:05:39
Speaker
It's really hard to tell, but I mean, Sid Vicious and a lot of those classical punk guys, quote unquote, right from Sex Pistols and from the oldie times, they're not as relevant right now for the current situation because it was all counter establishment, right? It was all against the queen or against
00:06:02
Speaker
you know, some sort of injustice that we don't even understand right here right now. I mean, whenever I listen to Sex Pistols, I can appreciate them as a, let's say an academic piece, if you will. So they are definitely to be thanked for being there for the punk rock, right? We wouldn't be here if they weren't there.
00:06:23
Speaker
But at the same time, I don't think they make too much sense to me right now. A lot has happened since then, yes. Yeah, I cannot understand their problems. I cannot understand their visual appeal. I cannot understand their music. For me, it's overly simplistic. For me, it's overly exaggerated. And we will leave in very different times. So I would probably turn to somebody who's more active,
00:06:48
Speaker
right now or recently, let's say Dr. Greg Grafton or those guys that have been there forever, but they're still relevant. I can still talk to them. I can still feel that their problems are actually my problems versus Sid, who's dead for more than I'm alive. 43 years now, I think. Yes, he's actually dead more than I'm alive too. I have no fucking reference to that dude anyway.
00:07:16
Speaker
Well, I totally get that. A lot of things have happened since then. I did like the quote, though, and we'll get back to the quote. That's actually, it's more for the quote than for Sid Vicious, actually, in my opinion. For me, at least. That's what I think. That makes sense. But we'll come back to that. Let's first start with you. So before we dive also very much into the music and punk,
00:07:37
Speaker
I want to start off just with a bit of a personal direction.
Life in Odessa During War
00:07:42
Speaker
How are you doing in all of this? Odessa is in the news almost on a daily basis with the grain shipments and the agreements that have been made and we hear of shellings of particular places. What is your current state of mind, your current state of being?
00:08:01
Speaker
Funnily enough, as funny as it sounds, I'd say business as usual. It's just the new usual. It's been five months and Odessa is relatively safe. I mean, as safe as you can get in a country at war, right? And probably we're not even the safest place in Ukraine because of the Black Sea, because of the ships firing missiles at us, because of the Nikolai have been right next to us and all that.
00:08:28
Speaker
But at the same time, I don't really, I mean, my regular life is minorly disrupted by the curfew or by some air raid alerts and all that. But I wouldn't say at this point I am terrified or heavily concerned or that anything really disrupts my life in a major way. I mean, it's obviously unpleasant.
00:08:56
Speaker
compared to where we were on February 24th, being lost for literally everything, not understanding where it goes, not seeing the dynamics and everything changing from minute to another minute. Now, I guess it's a decent place to be. I mean, I would have probably preferred for it to be over and for us to start rebuilding the country and
00:09:21
Speaker
And for me to be able to go to that punk rock holiday festival that is next week in Slovenia that I was going for since 2016, right? And it just hurts me to not be there. But things could have been much worse. Why are you not going? So just quickly, why are you not going? Is it just traveling is generally very difficult at this point in time? I am not allowed to leave the country. Oh, yeah, of course. Because you're below 60.
00:09:49
Speaker
But yes. Obviously, if you could see him on my screen, then everybody would know you're obviously below six years. Yeah, for the context for everybody, 18 to 60, we're not allowed to leave the country for men or if some women of like specifically reserved professions are also just allowed to leave the grain right now because they're a strategic reserve for a future mobilization. As of right now, I am not
00:10:17
Speaker
required to mobilize, so I can go as a volunteer or whatever, but I consider that some of the volunteering work that I do here and some of the engineering work that I do here is right now more useful compared to my total lack of military skill. I have no military experience whatsoever, so before shit gets way too young, probably not going there.
00:10:42
Speaker
But yeah, but we are not allowed to leave the country because if shit gets very real, then we will have to go and serve. And, you know, that's, that's, that's basically the reason. And there were a couple of potential shifts in the regulations as well as my specific situation because of, you know,
00:11:05
Speaker
businesses currently are being allowed to reserve their employees. So you can send a note to the Ministry of, I don't remember what exactly, I think the electronic infrastructure or whatever.
00:11:25
Speaker
And then they're like, okay, you're a crucial part of this business and this business is important for our economy. So we will give you a break on the military service for the time being. I think it's valid for, I don't know, 120 days or something like that. And if you have that and the legit reason to exit the country and a commitment to come back, then you are allowed. So I know a few of our bands actually currently touring Europe as a sort of
00:11:57
Speaker
cultural ambassadors, right? And they also go through the Ministry of Culture or whatever to do the same process. So I was hoping for it to work out, but it didn't. So I'm sitting here.
00:12:10
Speaker
Okay, it's important. It's very good to see that this is a part of the thinking as well, like cultural ambassadors. I mean, obviously, it's very difficult to, I think, agree everyone on the same lines, especially when you're in culture, you must probably like to go or definitely wanted to go. So I think it's a difficult question where you draw the line, but it's good that it's been given attention and that's possible. I'm thinking of Carlos Orchestra, for instance, during the Eurovision Song Contest, even though that's nothing that I usually watch or I'm interested in.
00:12:40
Speaker
But it was so important, I believe, for Ukraine to be represented there and to also make this emotional, like, you know, burn these emotional fireworks also in a way to get people to behind the cause of what is going on in Ukraine. I think it's very important and it needs to continue. So it's very good that there's a thinking along those lines, I believe.
00:13:04
Speaker
Great. Yeah, exactly. And I really appreciate you having me and having this entire series for the reason that I think that it is very important to not only show the headlines and the media part of it, the horrors of war, et cetera, but actually show real people that are relatable. Because everybody cares about their own business. And we need as much help as we can get right now. And for that, I would definitely love to show
00:13:33
Speaker
you know, that I'm a person that can be related to and that you're saving me personally, in a way, if you're doing anything for Ukraine, right? If it helps, I'm fucking happy about it. That is amazing. And, you know, to be honest with you, this is exactly the idea. And it's the idea also that I think, you know, the thing is, I'm reading so much Ukrainian literature right now. I learned so much about the country and there's such a richness in culture that we are just not aware of. When I say we, I say the royal we, obviously, I see
00:14:03
Speaker
say the West, even though I think that's such a flawed concept in itself, but I have not found anything better to replace it with. But it's just so good to have something to relate to and to have something to hold onto as well, because media attention is something that's obviously very jittery, and I think it's very important to keep our focus on what is happening.
00:14:28
Speaker
in your beautiful country in Ukraine because it concerns all of us. That's my deep conviction. Anyway, so now that we've clapped each other on the shoulder a lot, I want to ask you first, if you can give us a little bit of a recount of your journey, like how you discovered punk and how from what age on it and describe your journey a little bit in as long or as few words as possible.
00:14:58
Speaker
Um, okay. So I've probably discovered punk as a listener somewhere in my high school. I mean, I've listened to some punk back in the day, like way back in the day when like offspring came out, uh, but that was like very occasional.
00:15:16
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was like six. I don't know. You're quite a lot younger than me then because it was like the first parties I went to. It was just like 13, 14, it was offspring all the way, all the time. Exactly. I was very, very young when that came out, but I obviously heard like a pretty fly for a nice guy and all that stuff.
00:15:41
Speaker
I heard some Sex Pistols as well, and maybe even Black Flag, but I never picked it before. I think it was 2005. It must have been the 10th grade or whatever. And I had a couple of friends. We were shooting a TV show. I think it was the analog of the brainiest in the UK. It was actually licensed by Celadon or something.
00:16:07
Speaker
And I had a lot of friends from there, and I still have. And there was one girl who was very punk. And she just gave a couple of CDs to me. It was not a huge attraction or whatever. It was just like, you're listening to some cool shit, and you look cool. And you seem to know the gist of it. For me, back then, it was just listening to some music. I like the sound, but I like literally everything. And there is no definition to any of it.
00:16:37
Speaker
I will describe myself as like mellow maniac or whatever. I like that. Yeah. And then she came by and she knew all the stuff that I listened to, but I didn't know any of the stuff that she listened to.
Alex's Punk Journey
00:16:57
Speaker
And I was like, fuck, I'm missing out, right?
00:17:01
Speaker
And she gave me a couple of pointers, and then I discovered like, no effects, bad religion, MX bags, some of the lighter stuff as well, like probably Green Day, maybe even some shit that I would never listen to right now, such as I don't know, Simple Plan or Yellow Card. But anyways, it was, it was like all very new to me, right? And it was,
00:17:26
Speaker
It was a very appealing piece of music that was not only music, it was not only looks, it was not only, you know, it had some culture under it. And it just fascinated me immediately, really much. And then a couple of years fast forward, I think in 2008, if I'm not mistaken, was invited to my first band. I was playing a little guitar here and there for like 10 years by then or whatever.
00:17:56
Speaker
And I did a couple of session recordings before then, but I didn't have any full-time band. And I was called for a band that was sort of, I wouldn't say shitty, but, you know, average pop punk mixed with some bluesy motives or whatever. But then essentially, like first being in the band is a very different experience, right? It's not only about listening to the music, it's about expressing that same shit.
00:18:26
Speaker
in that same way and looking for what you're good at, looking for what you're angry at, and all that stuff. And then after some point, I was probably one of the most interested or one of the most motivated members of the band. So guys were like, yeah, we'll just keep playing because we're getting older. When I was starting, I was 16 or 15 or whatever.
00:18:54
Speaker
And then dudes were slightly older. And then they got to a line of, I don't know, 24, 25, and they started losing interest. And so I was like, yeah, okay, now it's my band. Fuck this. You're not writing music for me. Now I'm doing that, right? I'm deciding who goes, who stays. Well, not unilaterally, right? But it just became obvious that I'm not
00:19:23
Speaker
just the guy who plays the guitar anymore. I was a guitar player back then. And then that bent to shit at some point. And I had a pause of like three years or so, just as a heavy listener or whatever. I was still friends. I am still friends with all the dudes from that band except for the drummer who died. And then
00:19:45
Speaker
I had a guy here in Odessa who played in a number of bands and I really admired him. We were on very different stages because we were sort of pop punk and he was more into hardcore and street punk stuff and like, you know, skate punk. But I listened to their shows and I knew him, you know, not as a person, but as a musician.
00:20:10
Speaker
And he was like, oh yeah, I just learned you were a drummer. So would you like joining my band? I'm like, fuck yeah. And then it started going on and on and on. So we played. I had one band for a couple of years or for a year and a half. And then I'm in Germany and I get a call and he's like, would you like to play some bass? I'm like, I'm not a fucking bass player. He's like, fuck, I don't care.
00:20:36
Speaker
And yeah, and every time I'm being like, well, it's like second, third, sixth, whatever band, I don't have that much time, like I have full-time work, I travel a lot, you know, you will have hard time having me for shows, for recordings, etc. But then
00:20:57
Speaker
It gets easier with every bend, you know, because you really understand that if people are well organized and they are not there to just sit in the basement and rehearse forever, then you can do a lot in a very tiny amount of time. So now I play six. I am invited to the seventh. It's actually a revival of the thing we did for like two rehearsals. It's going to get back. It's going to be great. And I think I'm here to stay.
00:21:26
Speaker
Amazing. Wow. That's amazing. So let me also ask you, are you an active member of all the bands or is it also like as a session musician that they call you for gigs or for recordings? I am an active member. I don't count any bands that I'm just partially attending for a session recording.
00:21:47
Speaker
Not all the bands are active at the same time usually because there are problems with logistics, with members, et cetera, et cetera. So most of the time it's like three or four bands are active and they're like recording. One is recording and then three are playing live shows and recording at the same time or whatnot. So it's kind of juggling the priorities.
00:22:14
Speaker
If it was like seven super active bands at one given time, I would probably die. That's very hard. That's very hard to manage. But I mean, it's underground, so you don't- The hero's death.
00:22:27
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Overdose, probably. I mean, as punk rock as it gets. But anyway. You would be in very good company if that were the case. Anyway, yes. Yeah, yeah, probably. But yeah, I mean, it's not as scary as it sounds. And even as it looks to me most of the time, when I just say, like, I play six bands and I'm like, oh, fuck, I play in six bands. That's like scary. And then I'm like, oh, not that much.
00:22:56
Speaker
Well, I take my hand off to you anyway, because to me, it's enough trouble to just run my own life most of the time. So being involved in six bands, that really takes a lot. Running your own life is more complicated than playing six bands. I'm totally with you on that part.
00:23:14
Speaker
Okay, fine. So you touch base there. Excellent. Yeah. So when you when you when you stand on stage, like, you know, let's just go to this moment, like, you said on stage, it's black, it's dark, and you're just about to open up. Like, how do you feel? How does Panko make you feel? Honestly, there is not even that much excitement
00:23:36
Speaker
for me right now when you just entered the stage, right? Because I am like, personally, I am probably very methodical and I'm an engineer. I think you have to be with six fans. Yes, exactly.
00:23:50
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And so I just, I walk the stage well before the time I get on it, even for the sound check, right? I explore my space. I know the bits and pieces. I know that I'm comfortable. I have like my earplugs in or my headphones on. I'm not too loud when I'm behind the kit, right? Or all that sort of stuff. But then it kind of, it gets to me in the process, right? So when you play it,
00:24:19
Speaker
I would, you know, getting back like 10 years back, I would probably start with the audience. Right now, I would start with the music, right? Just playing it, just having it out there, just hearing it is fucking amazing. It's all about, it's about the expression, right? It's about the personal freedom. It's about whatever the shit you put into that specific song.
00:24:43
Speaker
And it may even be different for different band members, right? The song can be about like, the lyrics can be about one thing, but then behind the drum kit, it's a totally different piece for you. You can be playing about your own personal aggression with, I don't know, guest prices for whatever crap, right? And yeah, it's a very different feeling every time, but then
00:25:08
Speaker
There are probably two anecdotes about it. Like one is I had a very bad day at the office and I came to play a show with two bands and I was like literally as dark as a fucking cloud and nobody even started talking to me because they saw like that was very aggressive, very angry, et cetera. And then I played one show and I was still sort of, you know, better, but kind of
00:25:35
Speaker
still very loaded. And then after the second show, I felt like everybody was my friend. I was surrounded by great people. I was in a very mellow mood, et cetera. And it was not like alcohol. It was not just the time passing. It was literally just letting it all out. Emotional transformation. Yeah. That's emotional transformation in a way. Exactly. And then
00:26:04
Speaker
There are a few stories, I'm not going to be picking any specific one, but definitely it is very great to see kids reacting to it. Especially, you know, I mean, there are some older dudes that we probably consider our main target audience, right? Because we think about things that are not that obvious to kids at times, right? We're probably older ourselves, so we are not as relatable.
00:26:28
Speaker
But then, kids are probably the greatest public because they're very receptive, they're very open to all the new ideas. They're not just staying behind the bar, they're just nodding their head. Oh, they move. They move their body. Exactly. They do move. And then, even if their compliments are very weird, we were playing with a band that's called
00:26:52
Speaker
Pidofky, it doesn't mean anything in English. I cannot even translate it. But basically, it's like small girls in slang or whatever. And the band is like 16 year old girls or like 18 year old girls at max. And, and we played with them with one of my like oldest bands. And, and we were very different in style or very different in energy. We were like much
00:27:19
Speaker
I would say harder, right? Much more tired and aggressive and hardcore, if you will. And then the little guy, 16 or 17-year-old dude, just comes to me on the street. I went out for a breath of fresh air and he comes to me and he says, oh, you're even better than the band I came for. And I'm like, oh, yeah, well, that's great. I mean, he... That's awesome.
00:27:44
Speaker
he heard something, right? He's seen something and he's been really open about it. And I saw him on the floor there like having time of his fucking life, right? And they're crowd surfing, stage diving and they're really letting. So, you know, I'm just, I'm kind of feeling related to them at that time because
00:28:06
Speaker
What I'm having from my music is exactly what they're having from my music as well. So it's not only me resolving my problems and my suppressed aggression or whatever. It's me also helping people do that, which is fucking fantastic. I never thought I would be like changing the world in a way. And now it feels like I do that 30 or 40 minutes on the stage.
00:28:28
Speaker
One person at a time. Yes. That's a great compliment, by the way. I think that's a wonderful compliment. It's great. It's totally unpretentious. It's real. It comes from the heart. I mean, what else do you want? I think that's fantastic. It's a very beautiful anecdote as well. And I mean, if punk is anything, it's real. It's exactly that. It's coming from deep, deep inside, from the belly of the beast in a way. I think at least the way that I interpret it most of the time. And so that's wonderful.
00:28:59
Speaker
Can you give us a little bit of an overview also of punk rock in Ukraine?
Ukraine's Punk Scene and New Beginnings
00:29:05
Speaker
If you see it, maybe compare it to a little bit to other scenes that you might know. Is there something very specific about it that you don't find anywhere else? Or is it basically the same? It's punk.
00:29:19
Speaker
I would say it's the same and it's different, like everywhere. I mean, if you look at any country in, even in Europe, right, not going too far away, you can look at any country and some of the bands you will obviously see a lot of similarities in, right? I mean, there are like no fun at all. There are Mel and Colin, there are some German dudes like Radio Havana or whatever. And there will be some, you know, two in an experience.
00:29:48
Speaker
inexperienced ear, there will be like 100% of similarity, right? But when you get more comfortable with it, you will hear a lot of difference as well, cultural difference, and then musical difference, and then expression difference and then background difference. So I would say, in a way, Ukraine is no difference. I would say that right now,
00:30:09
Speaker
Our punk scene is very underdeveloped, but I think it's also a trend around the world, right? There are some big names that have been around forever. In Ukraine, we don't have such names just because it's during the times where Vankro is really popular and really, you know, in the mainstream.
00:30:29
Speaker
we were not around as a country, if you will. There was a Soviet Union. When are we really beginning on the 90s? Probably all of it. I mean, 90s were still a weird time in here, right? So all the three major waves of funk rock, I would say like 77 and then 82 and then like 90s, early to mid 90s.
00:30:58
Speaker
And 90s was a big wave, right? I mean, Green Day and offspring, like you said, I mean, I remember that I grew up with a lot of German punk rock as well, you know, which is also in a way punk, but it's also German. It has some. That's also why the question exactly. Right, right. We were still recovering. I mean, we were just late on a lot of cultural things because of the Soviet Union, right? We're just recovering from that heritage and we're just exploring
00:31:26
Speaker
If you look at 90s in all the post-Soviet countries, probably, the ones that actually lived in Soviet till the breakup, you will find that 90s were a very weird time. You had some people just running into riches through, I don't know, doing a legal business or selling drugs or whatever.
00:31:49
Speaker
then you had a lot of drug abuse, like lots of my friends from back in the day are dead to heroin to, you know, to all that nasty shit. And then there was also like the sexual exploration, the musical exploration, but most of it was sort of, you know, it's, it's similar to the way any reasonable person learns punk rock, right? You don't start, you just never start listening to Black Flag. You start through,
00:32:19
Speaker
gateway bands. You started through like Green Day or some lighter shit. And exploring world culture never starts with punk rock. It actually started with like electronic body music and then with, you know, some of the cool stuff that it can make, you know, right here right now and everybody will dance to it. So we just missed on those waves. And that's why punk rock in Ukraine is mostly underground, but it's
00:32:46
Speaker
It's a very decent underground, I would say. There are some guys actually like one of the bands that I really admire from here. They're from Kharkiv. They're currently in Berlin. They were let out and their tour is like two months long. It's going to be a huge European tour.
00:33:08
Speaker
and they're called Baselud if you want to check them out or I can send you a link. I'll link to that. Yes, yes. You will most probably have to send me a link because I honestly tell you, I do struggle with my show notes sometimes. I mess them up all the time. Anyway, that would be fantastic. That would be fantastic. They are touring now and I think they're a great example of
00:33:33
Speaker
the current music, right, that we currently have in Ukraine, but at the same time, most of the members of those bands, of that band in particular, in those bands that I'm thinking about when I'm saying about them, like the current wave, have been playing punk forever. So like one thing we have here is that we don't have that many people on the stage, right, for punk rock and hardcore specifically. So I mean,
00:34:00
Speaker
I play six and it's definitely not the limit. And some guys are playing over 10. And we tend to just, you know, if we have lots of different conflicts and ideas in terms of the style, right? You don't make some emo hardcore and then the pop punk or the oi, right? So if you have like ideas and all those directions, you just start three separate bands.
00:34:25
Speaker
And that's what's kind of normally happening here. We are a very, very small, very connected community. But I think there are very good people in it, very good musicians as well. So there is a lot of, you know, raw power, raw idea.
00:34:46
Speaker
which makes, to me, Ukrainian punk is really appealing because it's not really refined, right? We are very underground, which makes it the punkest punk of all. Yes, I would say exactly. Yeah, absolutely. And also, I mean, it takes a lot of dedication, first of all, for someone to play in that many bands. And also it takes a lot of, you know, I believe what you said earlier on about how you got into punk. It's a lot of self-exploration, I believe.
00:35:13
Speaker
That's what punk is. It's what rock music is in a way as well. But punk, I think maybe most of all, is a lot of self-exploration, like the anger, like the social critique and all of that, that you have to let surface.
00:35:28
Speaker
I think it contains that so much and with that self-exploration, if you have so many different varying ideas and then you build all these different bands up, it speaks for the spirit of the Ukrainian punk scene very much in the way that you have described it. Amazing. That's a very interesting take on it. I will definitely ponder about it because I know it's probably also, I just thought that
00:35:56
Speaker
If you're already an established band and you have your own style and flow and everything, there are some ideas that you have to park somewhere. And I know a lot of guys are having their solo careers for that with, I don't know, Chuck Ragan from Hot Water Music doing his country stuff because country doesn't fit well with Hot Water Music or all that sort of thing. Or Frank Turner leaving Million Dead for being Frank Turner.
00:36:23
Speaker
But yeah, if you're full time with one big band, you just don't have the resource to put out another one with conflicting ideas, or you would become a mess, right? Or there are some bands that are combining very different things, but that's very much of an exception. People don't usually like it.
00:36:44
Speaker
But yeah, that's a profound take on this. I will definitely think about it. It speaks for me of a very big thirst for creation and for doing something new without compromising as well. A lot of that is in there, which is raw. It's unmitigated. And to be honest with you, I would love to come and see a punk rock concert in Ukraine somewhere. Best of all with you on stage, obviously.
00:37:10
Speaker
We will hopefully make that happen at some point. I mean it, I mean it. I'm trying already, I'm trying to put some things together to come to you, create myself, because I want to just now also personally actually be there. Let's see if you can help with that. I mean, I have the accommodation. I will definitely reach out to you. Awesome, awesome. Yeah, if you need any help with logistics or thinking it through, just let me know as well. I've been...
00:37:38
Speaker
in context with a few people about that. And we took actually people here from, you know, we either picked them on the border or helped with logistics or accommodated through here. So, yeah.
00:37:50
Speaker
And, you know, being in punk rock, I'm also a sort of a booker at times. I'm doing my own show. So taking people to the country and accommodating them is definitely the thing I do on a daily basis. So logistics is not a foreign word to you, basically. Yeah, you know exactly what that entails.
00:38:09
Speaker
So one, one thing that I also realized is like you said to me before we, because we always have a bit of a prep talk, not a pep talk. That's something else. You don't need that a prep talk. Just, just to be clear. Um, like one of the bands that you play for and I, what's it, you have to again, tell me its name, but you sing in Ukrainian exclusively, right? Yes. It's called Vitsage. Yes. Uh, it is.
00:38:38
Speaker
It is exclusive to Ukrainian and it started during war times already. So it's the newest of my bands. It started during war times that you started singing exclusively in Ukraine. The band also started exclusively. The band started, yeah, yeah, yeah. So we just started recording. That was a direct response, basically. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it was March.
00:39:05
Speaker
when we were just like over being fucking terrified, you know, and lost for virtually everything. And we had that live club, one of our friends, currently he's a bass player in Vitsic.
00:39:23
Speaker
He works in a live club that we play a lot of shows in. Just one second. Just to put it in the bigger context. But usually there are hardly any bands that sing in Ukrainian, right? Any punk bands. It's usually English. It's not...
00:39:40
Speaker
It's not that. By the way, guys who I just told you about, Bezla, they actually sing in Ukrainian for quite a while. I think they even started as an exclusive Ukrainian band. They have a couple of songs in English, but they are either covers or even covers to Ukrainian English singing bands.
00:40:00
Speaker
Either way, their main language is Ukrainian. I wouldn't say it prevails though. So there was definitely a time, I think up till like five to six years ago, it was really hard to get on the global stage without being English, right?
00:40:19
Speaker
You know, you probably know a lot about German bands and that regard, right? The art stay is very popular and they can get a stadium in Germany, but then they can get like 300 people in any other country at best. Yes, but German punk is always in German. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So, Ukrainian is probably not the first choice. Now it's definitely getting much more traction with the whole, you know, self-identification idea and self-proud idea.
00:40:48
Speaker
Is there something that has increased, this phenomenon that more bands are starting to sing in Ukrainian also because of the war? Is that something you observe? I think there's been some curve in recent years, probably still related to the war because the war started in 2014, not right now. We just speak about the new full-on phase of the conflict.
00:41:13
Speaker
And so that was definitely one of the triggers that was a trigger for being less Russian. And I'm in a very Russian speaking region. Right. So like most of the time we communicate Russian here. But right now there is a very big push to switch to Ukrainian. And it was there. It was starting to shape since 2014 or late 2013.
00:41:35
Speaker
And the same happens with bands preferences. So there was an ever growing number of bands that started singing in Ukrainian.
00:41:46
Speaker
I don't think, I know that many bands that have started during this war time. So since February 24th. So I don't have the statistic for you. I think the only band I know is actually us. And which is where we get back to that now exactly. So you said March, right? You started this. So now carry on. Before I interrupted you just to have this little bit of a contextual excursion. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So in March, we were like over the first shock and we had that club and club had all the equipment, but they obviously could not work.
00:42:16
Speaker
uh because of the safety restrictions and uh and curfew and all that and uh we just decided hey we have a lot of like anger and fear and all that unpleasant shit and then we want to like do something about it in a way that that we know how right in in making music and in expressing ourselves
00:42:38
Speaker
And we created vintage pretty much there on the spot. The dude that I play with left, he's a very talented composer. I play with him in pretty much all the bands that I play in. And he's just super productive whenever he has the idea. He's like, let's start a new band. I have this idea. And you're like, well, yeah, for the future, let's start a new band. And then in a day,
00:43:07
Speaker
In a day, you get like...
00:43:10
Speaker
eight tracks that you have to learn. And then the entire visual, uh, the entire like design of, uh, of a cassette or whatever. So like the band exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like new nicknames or whatever. So like the entire piece is just thought through and you only have to like arrange your part, like do the drumming or whatever. And even there you're like consulting the guy who actually wrote the main piece of the music, right? Is it going to work in that step or not?
00:43:38
Speaker
And we decided that since the times are bad and our home studio got evacuated because our studio is right next to the naval base. So the actual place where all the ships are staying. And we thought it would be fucking hit in the first day or so. So everybody who was there, including my drum kit, were evacuated.
00:44:08
Speaker
And we decided that we'll just go with the flow and record everything in a way that we just, we learned the song and we recorded right away without even knowing the lyrics yet. We just recorded music and then we wrote lyrics to that music. And it came out great. I mean, that EP I'm very proud of. It's recorded without any fucking metronome, without too much of a mixing.
00:44:37
Speaker
It's a live gear, it's not a studio gear. It's not that much different, but still, there is no soundproof room, there is no vacuum room, there is no professional sound engineer. It was all us. It was probably the most DIY thing I've done in a very long time, in a very difficult circumstance.
00:44:59
Speaker
And it came out great. And it was exactly what we wanted. It helped us to process those emotions. It actually conveyed some of those emotions to other people. It is Ukrainian. It is pure. It is aggressive. So, you know, that's just fucking great. And it took virtually no time. We were just there. And I think in less than a month, we came from non-existence to having an EP of like, what is it?
00:45:27
Speaker
was it five or six tracks on Spotify?
00:45:32
Speaker
Amazing. Amazing. I, um, that's, you know, first of all, that's a bit like jazz, like, you know, like take five or something like that, that like this, this live attitude, amazing. And, um, it, it just shows me one thing, you know, despite everything, the, the, you can't defeat the human spirit in a way. It's like, you want to create, you go out there, you do, you find ways of doing it, no matter the odds and no matter how strong, uh, the opposition. And this is a living testament to that, according to me.
00:46:02
Speaker
There is there is also one other factor to it. I think we're doing it in spite of the situation, I guess, right? Not only like against it, but also like, well, you know, there is a very strong feeling. There was a very strong feeling. I guess it's not that strong anymore because of the adaptation. But in March, it was like, don't waste any fucking time. You could die tomorrow.
00:46:26
Speaker
And that really pushes you to your absolute limit, which is also not sustainable. But I mean, it helped us put out a great record. And now we're taking a much slower pace, to be honest. And I think we're about to play the first live show in like three weeks or so. We'll see how that plays out.
00:46:47
Speaker
All right. Well, this is actually something that I'm also very interested in is the live scene. What is the live scene like at the moment in Odessa? I mean, the whole of Ukraine, but I imagine that Odessa is probably the place you're most familiar with, but given your CV and your portfolio, you probably know everything about the Ukrainian live scene as well. So what's going on there at the moment?
00:47:14
Speaker
So we are doing some shows. We are definitely doing a lot of shows in Odasi because Odasi is mostly unaffected, right? Even historically. So Kiev is probably safer right now, but they were heavily showed and affected back in the day, right? Before they escaped from there. Yeah. Yeah. March and like first half of April or whatever, first part of April.
00:47:37
Speaker
Uh, we were not as much, right? So we only had some missile strikes and there is, I mean, there are some casualties, but nothing that major on a scale. So people did not escape. Oh, just as much or returned much faster, right? There is less, um, uh, you know, anxiousness about it. Um, and we are doing shows first, all of them are, um, charity.
00:48:06
Speaker
not in a standard charitable way where we're collecting money for armed forces or like war zone medics or basically whatever goes on with the war, whatever the needs are, we're collecting money for some charity funds or non-profit organizations. I'm part of one of them, but we're taking a different path. Either way, we're collecting money for that. Then we are doing it as an
00:48:36
Speaker
online show, first for people to be able to attend even if they are not feeling safe enough or they physically cannot. And second, I think it's probably true even starting from COVID times, but due to like state of emergency or whatnot, we're not allowed to have a full offline show. So technically we're doing an online show with some limited attendance. It is really like physically limited to a certain amount of people.
00:49:05
Speaker
We are not allowed to put a straight price on it, but it's probably good. It's donation-based or what? Yeah. It's strictly donation-based. We do every commendation of the minimal donation, so donation, but please do at least 70, all that sort of stuff, which probably plays great with the fact that we're actually raising money.
00:49:30
Speaker
But yeah, we're doing it a lot. I think the club that I mentioned earlier, the one we recorded in is currently having at least like four to five shows in a week, which is their pretty much regular schedule. It's probably less bands in the evening. It's somewhat scrambled due to the curfew. It was much harder before the summertime because curfew was much longer, right? That's why it was not.
00:49:57
Speaker
Now Curfew is 11 p.m. to 5 a.m. Okay. Does that mean also your concert has to be over before then? Probably even before 10.30. Well, so people can get home. Yeah, yeah, yeah, all that. Okay. We're usually aiming at ending the show per se at like 10. And then, you know, 10 to 10.30, you just drink your last beer and say your last hurrahs and whatnot. And then you go.
00:50:25
Speaker
Which, I mean, it's sub-optimal, obviously. Rock shows are usually late and all that. We're fucking lazy and we like to stay in late. And that's something that disciplines us in a very different way. But it's easy to adjust to. I mean, compared to what it could have been, it's not the most difficult situation in the world. So Odessa is doing frankly great on that component. I know there are some shows in Kiev and we even played some shows in Kiev.
00:50:54
Speaker
They were a little cautious about it and again, due to it being sort of a small crowd, I know that for some time, ironically, there were no live shows because one dude who was a sound engineer in one venue and provided the gear to another venue, he went to Chernihyev for quite a while and nobody could locate him or get him back to Kiev.
00:51:22
Speaker
and basically missing in action. And people were like, well, we would love to do a show. And we were even setting some preliminary dates. But then we're like, well, we don't have a sound engineer yet. So fuck you. It's going to be two weeks late. But anyways, it's getting back on track. And then in other regions, it really depends on the region. I know that probably nothing is happening in Harkiv.
00:51:51
Speaker
But they are being heavily bombed right now, even though it's a huge city, even though they are not completely shut down and dead and it's getting back to life. Still, probably having chosen clubs is way too risky out there. Or I know that some of the people from bands and from clubs are serving in the military and some have left the city, right? So it's kind of more complicated.
00:52:15
Speaker
It is slightly easier in the West, like Lviv, like Chernobyl, like Kvana Frankovsk, but it's really unpredictable, right? So from time to time, local regulators and authorities are saying, hey, no way, what are you doing? We have a word here, which is kind of weird to me. I mean, it would...
00:52:43
Speaker
There's a lot of that in Ukraine right now when people are disagreeing on how the entertainment should work during war times. Some of the people are saying that you need to entertain everybody, including soldiers, for them to switch off and get away from that morbid reality.
00:53:06
Speaker
Uh, and others are saying, why are you dancing here? We have a war, right? And it's tragic and you have to soak in that tragedy. And I totally disagree with the second point. Uh, but I do too. It's, it's not for me to say. Yes. Yes, exactly. Yeah. Yeah.
Entertainment and Morale in Wartime
00:53:21
Speaker
And so we are sort of, luckily we never had that in, in Odessa, at least from, from authorities, right? So we're not restricted from doing virtually anything except for, for the safety stuff and security stuff.
00:53:34
Speaker
But in other regions, I know that there are some concerts that are being canceled, even canceled the very last moment because of that disagreement. And so the authorities come to you and say, hey, this is a fucking weird clown parade during wartime, so fuck off. And you have to obey. I mean, again, it's a war zone after all. So you cannot just say, hey, we're punk. We're too punk to obey. No, this is not the time. Yes.
00:54:05
Speaker
I understand that. I also, I'm with you on this one, I believe times like those are especially the times where you need to, you know, focus on what it is to be human and that is to actually to love, to have fun, to go out, to dance, you know, all the things that make us enjoy life. They shouldn't be neglected because there's already enough
00:54:29
Speaker
of the change that goes on and it's necessary to focus on that, but I also agree with you, you can't dictate and everybody should be heard in a society, but also not at all cost. So this is always some sort of trade-off negotiation that has to go on in a society, especially a difficult time like that. I can understand that.
00:54:50
Speaker
I would like to know, why do you think in this particular time that you guys live in now, we live in, sorry, we live in, but you were at the forefront of it. Yeah, no, this is very important because this is exactly the kind of didactics that you are in. It's kind of like withdrawing us from it. No, I think it's very important to realize that we are all in this. It's a very cheerful and happy laugh from me that you pointed it out without me having to go there.
00:55:19
Speaker
Yes, because this is essential and this is something I believe that is already starting to set in the rest of Europe a little bit. It's like you realize on the news it's becoming a little less reported. It's on the second page of the newspapers now again and all of that. I believe this is something we're all in and we need to keep our focus sharp.
00:55:40
Speaker
So my question for you is why is it important for a democratic society in general, but also for Ukraine in particular right now? Why is punk rock important? Why does it matter?
00:55:56
Speaker
Well, I can only speak to myself, right? Of course. It's going to be like super subjective. That's going to be super subjective. I will share a secret with you. I'll share a secret with you. This show is all about subjectivity. So you're the right one. You're the right one is here. Absolutely. Okay. Okay. I think there are a few factors. Like first for me, punk is always about personal freedom. So it was not, I mean, I am personally not
00:56:25
Speaker
anti-establishment as such, right? I am anti-dickhead, if you will. So if anybody comes and like spoils my life, that's what I really, you know, I'm really cross about it. And that's what punk is about for me, like, stay the fuck away from my life. And that's what Russia is doing to all of us, right? And it kind of just kind of resonates.
00:56:55
Speaker
in a way that the reaction is very symmetrical to what we get. I don't think there has been a time where it felt so right. I mean, you could be thinking about what you're doing in your area, in your region, or how you are upset about having to go to school if you're a kid. But none of that was as vibrant and as
00:57:22
Speaker
relevant as being in a wartime, right? And having some dickhead, some motherfucking crazy dictator just ruining your fucking life in the moment, right? In a blink of an eye. So first, because it reflects the reality, right? Second, because it lets you let that reality out. It's an outlet. It's an outlet of all the negative emotion. It's an outlet of
00:57:51
Speaker
the aggression, it's an outlet of the negativity. And again, this is something that punk rock has always been about the, you know, the motion part, all the aggressiveness, all the crowd surfing, etc. It's not just because we like hitting each other. It's because through that hitting, we let the aggression out and then we show the appreciation, right? We are coming together as a crowd as a single organism. And then
00:58:18
Speaker
that leads to another part being unity, right? If you're part of the punk community, even though it's not entirely true, I mean, whenever you feel like you belong to some subculture or society, you're kind of fooling yourself, right? Yes. There's no black and white. There's always a proportion. Yeah, it's definitely an all-black and white. There are dickheads on the punk stage, right? There are good people outside of it. You're not fucking special. You're never fucking special. Life sucks.
00:58:47
Speaker
Uh, but, uh, even, you know, times are hard. So even if you're fooling yourself in that way, if it makes you comfortable, and if it doesn't make you completely diluted about the reality you live in and just allows you to take a break and fucking breathe. Then it's also fine, right? If you get like for two hours of the show, if you get the feeling that the world outside is not as fucked up as it is right now.
00:59:18
Speaker
As long as you remember getting out of the club that it still is, that feeling, you know, you can make it stick, you can remember it and just be like, well, it sucks right now, but then I remember that place and those people, right? And that fucking idiot who jumps on my head from the stage.
00:59:37
Speaker
that made me feel alive and that not all hope was lost, right? So that's- So you're correcting orientation points a little bit. Could you put it that way maybe? Yeah, yeah, I guess. I mean, it's also a- It sounds a lot better the way you said it, yes. It sounds a lot better the way you said it. It's a perception thing. I mean, I would say for myself, right?
01:00:02
Speaker
I never like to live in the past, right? So memories are not as important as where you are right now, but at the same time, just knowing that there is a difference, right? Just knowing the spectrum of where you could be is what helps you have that compass tuned at all times, right? Because if you don't have that, then like it all turned to shit and you live in shit constantly. So just having that difference, just having
01:00:30
Speaker
a look at something that's not complete fucking waste of skin is just important for you to stay sane, I guess.
Punk Rock's Political Nature
01:00:40
Speaker
Wow, that was an amazing subjective impression that you gave there. I think very much that I take away from that. Thank you. Going back just quickly also because it ties in with the Sid Vicious quote that I said earlier.
01:01:00
Speaker
undermine their pompous authority, reject their moral standards, make anarchy and disorder your trademarks, cause as much chaos and disruption as possible, but don't let them take your life." How does that quote actually relate to you when you hear that? Is there anything in there where you're like, this is, yeah, okay, I can understand that? Or is this something like, I don't know what it means? 100% applicable. 100% applicable, I would just interpret it, not
01:01:26
Speaker
I mean, if you think about it, if you think about it in a way that he said it, it's usually like, you probably think of them as a sort of establishment or some certain set of people. While I would put it the way that them is like literally everyone, right? So if you think about the society altogether, not necessarily the major society, but like even your punk friends or whatever, non-punk friends.
01:01:53
Speaker
If you put it the way that like nobody else should be able to take away your individuality, your personal freedom, your thoughts, your time after all, etc. Nobody can affect what you're doing, and you should be fighting really hard for it. Well, that's how it resonates with me. And that's also how it resonates with Ukraine right now, right? I mean, that's what we're doing. We're fighting people who are trying to tell us what to do.
01:02:20
Speaker
This is another question that comes to mind also when I think about protest and about what punk can offer. Can there actually be something like apolitical punk, according to you, purely subjective? Yeah, that's a tough one. That's a tough one because I think people interpret the word political very differently, right?
01:02:45
Speaker
A quick background to it, a lot of what's been going on since 2014, including the Crimea and then the Donbass and all of that, was put as, if you try to talk about it with, let's say, Russian friends or whoever on the other side of the spectrum, they usually said something like, let's not talk about politics. And you would be like, we're talking about human lives and
01:03:16
Speaker
reliability and not being a dickhead and international law and all of that. It would be like, well, that's all politics. In a way, everything in the world is politics, other than taking a shit. Probably taking a shit is not politics. Shit is politics, or politics is shit.
01:03:37
Speaker
In an essence, to me, if you take that interpretation, then there is definitely no apolitical punk, right? And even if we take the interpretation that is slightly lighter, that everything that matters is politics in a way, because I mean, you gain some traction of some social processes or economical processes or whatever through politics.
01:04:05
Speaker
then, yeah, punk rock is all about that, right? Punk rock, even personal freedom is very affected by politics. So if you try to imagine the band that is all only about your personal experiences and personal freedom and about everybody else fucking off, the government is still trying to put their fingers in your pie, right? And in that sense, it all gets political at some point in time. And if you try to
01:04:36
Speaker
To say that, you know, your band or you as a punk personally is completely apolitical, you're a fucking moron. And I know a couple of bands from Russia who have dismantled since February exactly for that reason. Some of the band members were like,
01:04:55
Speaker
we don't want to partake in politics. And others were like, are you fucking kidding me? There was war in like 300 kilometers. Speaking of Russian bands, have you had any touching points with Russian bands in the past? And how was it now? I did. We were honestly very closely connected, especially before 2014. But then there are still some friends, there are still some bands that
01:05:23
Speaker
kind of like or that I liked back in the day, but it sort of helped shape my personality or my musical career. They were sort of influences for me. And I'm in touch with some of them. Most of the good ones are either on pause or dismantled completely because of those disagreements that I just mentioned.
01:05:49
Speaker
But that kind of makes it possible for me to listen to their music still. The other part is sort of more tragic because all the time I try to separate art from the personality of the creator, right? But it's not that easy with punk and especially with leaving people. So you are there in this situation and you're saying some nonsense that kind of
01:06:16
Speaker
discredits whatever you created before, not because it automatically turns to shit because you're a moron, right? But because you cannot help interpreting it in a different way. So if you sang for 20 years about no to wars and peace to the entire world and no to killing children or whatever,
01:06:40
Speaker
And then you just keep silence about the war in Ukraine. You probably didn't mean it. I cannot seriously listen to that shit anymore because you're a
01:06:49
Speaker
fucking hypocrite, right? So yeah, that's kind of where it's at. Or you're so afraid that you just don't, you know, you're afraid to open your mouth because you're afraid of the consequences. I think that's probably how Russia works. I kind of can relate to that. And I know that there are some people, I mean, I've tried to talk to everybody, honestly, at least in the very beginning, I had enough energy and I had enough passion to actually talk to people and try to
01:07:18
Speaker
see if there's anything that can be done right for them personally or for them leaving the country and not paying taxes there or
01:07:26
Speaker
with them convening the message in smaller clubs or whatever going under the radar. So we were trying to exploit that cultural front. So for Russian bands to have gigs in Ukraine, for instance, to have something like, is that what you're saying? Probably in Russia. I meant the Russia to build up their own protest movement.
01:07:48
Speaker
which is all about, I don't know, maybe not overthrow Putin because it's kind of ambitious, but at least even for Hong Kong, that's a bit ambitious. Yes. Yeah. But at least have that social layer feel that they're not alone and have to do something together, right? Maybe some, you know, partisan stuff or, or maybe leaving the country altogether and grouping up somewhere else, right? To, to help each other. You know, all that sort of stuff.
01:08:16
Speaker
And I obviously started with like, what are you doing? How threatened are you by the state? What are your problems? What are your inquiries by the FSB right now or whatever?
01:08:31
Speaker
And there are some people that I really know that they have like families and they have kids and they cannot openly go all out and just, you know, say random shit because they will be in prison for life or even worse, right? Like it's a war, it's not a military special operation for instance. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you could do that, but it's like already borderline. It would be canceled forever. And in a way,
01:08:56
Speaker
I kind of understand that. First, I understand that on a personal level. I don't want anybody to go for a suicide for Ukraine. It doesn't help anybody. I know that that person is no good to us. We want to make a difference, and we want to make a difference long term after all. And we will need the culture to actually change Russians after the war to not have this repeated, all that. And then I kind of understand it on a professional level as well.
01:09:25
Speaker
to a degree, because if you are just canceled, you cannot do anything else anymore, right? So you either need to take some radical steps by actually escaping the country, or if you want to fight it from within, you have to keep a very fine line of still being allowed to play and not being in prison, but sort of trying to convey the message. And there are some bands that are currently doing that on a sort of, you know, they're staying
01:09:56
Speaker
They're staying popular as a band, not being very, very open about everything that's going on. But they are very open about it in their social media, in their personal accounts and all that. And so kids seeing that are bringing Ukrainian flags to shows, et cetera. And technically, band is doing nothing wrong. They're not putting the poster of like, stop wearing Ukraine or call it war, or put in socks or whatever.
01:10:26
Speaker
But their concert is that expression of free will is that expression of people who are against that shit, which is, I mean, it's definitely borderline acceptable, right? But I'm just empathetic enough to see where it comes from. And I think it is better than a complete suicide. But the line is very, very, very fine. So
01:10:51
Speaker
Whenever you go beyond that caring but balancing on the line of being allowed to do anything, you don't care enough and you should fuck off. There is also one interesting story about that. The interesting story was about, I think it unveiled literally a couple of days ago. There are some punk and hardcore people in St. Petersburg. They were involved in some
01:11:20
Speaker
arguments on Instagram about, I don't remember, maybe some personal stuff of a guy from Belarus or whatever, there was a conflict between him and a girlfriend, and then everybody was like, you're doing some shit, what kind of hardcore bunker you are, if you are like, being cruel to a woman, or whatever, it may be inaccurate, that part of the story, I don't remember. But surprisingly enough,
01:11:43
Speaker
It was discovered during that conversation that some of those people actually work on a factory that produces drones that are flying to Ukraine to kill Ukrainian people. And then we were like, what the fuck? You guys are like hardcore punkers and you're actually like dictating somebody what they should do about that culture and whatnot on a personal level, but you are working
01:12:09
Speaker
for the government, for the state, you are literally partaking in a war by producing some military ammunition. And you decide to speak up about whatever nonsense you think is true hardcore, right? While being very much contributing to something that you're supposed to be totally against. So yeah, there are lots of different stories. Some are very bad, some are very good. I'm trying to be in touch with everybody
01:12:39
Speaker
till the moment it's proven that they are lost. Because I also run low on energy. I cannot keep talking to people if I think I cannot change anything. So I'm trying to help or I try to talk to them if I feel like there could be some difference made, but then at some point it's like, no, fuck off your Russian dickhead.
01:13:01
Speaker
Yeah, so of course, I think communication in general has probably become a little more difficult. The question also why I wanted to know that is because, and I know that this is always a bit of an early question, but I do believe nonetheless after where we're coming from, it's also important to keep at least in your view to some degree how at some point
01:13:28
Speaker
piece could look like, right? Even though I do understand that it's very difficult and it depends mainly on one side or only on the one side and not on the other. But my question to you is, how do you think music can serve as a bridge? Because we've seen, just because with Alexei Izakoff, who I had one podcast with, we spoke for instance about the really not so
01:13:53
Speaker
Sensitive initiative from the German president at some point we invited the Berlin Philharmonics and they were playing Russian and Ukrainian pieces. Do you know about that? And then the Ukrainian ambassador, he didn't come and at first I was like, but why? And then when I thought about it, it all made sense.
01:14:10
Speaker
It was a little chauvinistic misrepresentation also of Ukrainian art and so on and so on. So there's obviously we have a lot of examples already how you do it the wrong way, right? According to you, how could music be used as a bridge to also, you know, at least add a little bit to that conversation and make a little bit of a contribution to peace?
01:14:39
Speaker
Right. So let me first add a little of background to what you said, because I think it's very important. The important part to remember is that Russian culture, as such, has no problem with our, like, we don't have a problem with Russian culture. So I wouldn't say that, I mean, I dislike some of it. I dislike some of the Ukrainian. I dislike some of the world's culture. I don't fucking like it.
01:15:09
Speaker
But that's my personal opinion, right? Also, if you look at Russian, that would be racist just the same, just in a positive way. Culture has no nationality, per se. So, yes, absolutely. Right. But the problem with Russian culture is that currently it's not a culture. It's being used as a propaganda. It's being used as a major part of the propaganda. And they're saying, like, you cannot cancel us because we have great ballet.
01:15:34
Speaker
For fuck's sake, you're starting war. Ballet is the part where we'll take care of much fucking later, right? When we're done with this, go watch your fucking ballet. Or if they would keep their mouth shut about this, then it would probably be much more okay, right? But while it being used as a very political thing, I think it is very insensitive.
01:16:01
Speaker
for anybody to do what Germans have done with mixing that, right? And I even understand where they're coming from, but they're in... It was a good intention, but yes. Yeah, yeah, the intention is good, but it was just moronic. But it shows you good intention doesn't account for anything if it's not done well, so yes. If it's not thought through, I mean, it's not a hard thought to comprehend that Russia and
01:16:28
Speaker
are always speaking about their fucking culture. Whenever you say like, you killed kids in Bucher, they would be like, but we have great ballet and Bushkin. And you'd be like, how is that fucking relevant? It speaks for class and distinction. Yes, absolutely. Exactly. That's what it does. Exactly.
01:16:46
Speaker
And then for the bridge, honestly... It's a fig leaf. Sorry, just quick. It's a fig leaf for everything else that's going on. Yes, yes, yes. And you're calling it out. And that's the tragic part of it because we want to kind of, like, remove it. And I am personally, like, in other times, I'm definitely against any regulation on the culture, obviously. But right now, it's not about the culture, it's about propaganda. And with propaganda, you have to fight and you have to fight hard.
01:17:17
Speaker
And for the part of your question about how we can contribute, how culture and music can contribute. Also just punk rock, because this is obviously what you know the best, right? We can also narrow it down to that. It doesn't have to be culture, per se, you know? Yeah, I know. I'm definitely going to be speaking most of punk rock, because that's the only thing I know, really. It's shown through a little bit today, but fine, yes.
01:17:46
Speaker
That's an interesting one because I don't think at this point, at least, I don't think I am not too much for building any bridges. But there is one major problem that I think we should be solving for any bridges to even have the potential to exist is current Russian society having no subjectivity whatsoever. So they are not personalities. They're
01:18:11
Speaker
you know, whatever you put on their television is going to be what they fucking do and what they fucking think. Or, I mean, even the ones that have a little bit of that personality would understand that they're not allowed to show any difference to that, you know, major political television agenda. And so fighting propaganda and establishing that personality and personal freedom and personal thoughts
01:18:38
Speaker
is basically the nature of punk rock. So if you think about it, just having strong punk scene in Russia with people who actually think about it, not just go for shows because of going for shows, but who really believe in it, who really go all in, who really think they are punk enough, that would be exactly what we need.
01:19:01
Speaker
to start the further conversation. And the further conversation is like way, way, way out there.
Future Hopes for Ukraine
01:19:07
Speaker
Before there are people to talk to, no bridges can be built because we would be talking to guys who just change the channel on their television and boom, those fucking bridges end us again, which is pointless, right? But we could, as a punk culture, as a punk society, we could try to form that
01:19:31
Speaker
that culture, that new attitude of youngsters who really feel they could build their own lives and who could be heard, who could be that voice, that power, right? And then that's a new democratic society to talk to. And then we would decide what our new relationship is with all the shitty past and all.
01:19:56
Speaker
And when you say it like that, it also makes entire sense what you said earlier about how you try to support bands in Russia, you know, to figure out a little bit where they stand and what they do, and then to empower them, because this is your way of...
01:20:11
Speaker
also contributing to a peaceful change in a way. Exactly. It's amazing to look at it in that perspective and I can only say keep up doing that. I know the low energy levels but what you just described, I second that. I think this is definitely one way of doing that, showing that resistance and empowering people, critical people and critical thinking again.
01:20:38
Speaker
Amazing i would i would actually love to end it there but i just because this is so strong but i i have to ask you three more questions and first of all because whoever whoever hears this um where can they see you next where's your next concert like my next concert with any band is this saturday uh it's an audacity and send more music club um it's gonna be the band called ragtag and we're gonna do probably like 35 minutes set about everything
01:21:03
Speaker
Amazing. You know what? I will link to the location and I make a note in the show notes as well because we have caught up a little bit, you know, beforehand, all the episodes were recorded a little earlier, but now we're basically in real time. So this episode will air before Saturday so people can get an impression of that. What are your hopes for the near future in Ukraine, Alex? I obviously hope for it to end.
01:21:30
Speaker
That's the only major hope. I try to not have any forecasts or predictions because you get discouraged really easily if it doesn't turn out to be true. So I'm trying to live day by day and just make plans. And if they go to shit, well, they go to shit, it's life. But obviously, my hopes are that
01:21:53
Speaker
People stop dying or at least they start dying less and that we end the shit for good. And obviously, Ukraine has to win. All right. And this is my last question to you. You've already said, I think, of a couple of initiatives and organizations to support. If people have the time and the money, do you have any initiatives, any organizations that can support to help Ukraine?
01:22:22
Speaker
Absolutely. I work with the organization that's called Spilna Meta, like common purpose. That is a sort of small nonprofit. I think there are like 20 tops people. And we're working on a number of different directions right now. We're raising money for radios, encrypted radios for war zone medics. And we are collecting some
01:22:50
Speaker
money for tactical ammunition for our soldiers and some other stuff. We always have one to like up to three active fundraisers. And also, I mean, I'll be sending the link to our website, obviously. And I will, I mean, I'm not sure if it's worth
01:23:16
Speaker
publishing as such, but I have a lot of stuff that I post and cross post on my Facebook page personally. So there is also the variety of things that we- I'll just link to your Facebook page. I think that's the best idea. Right. Right. That's perfect. I'll send you my Facebook page as well then. Yeah. We have like, there's a wide network of people who work together. So for instance, my org is not always capable of filling in some of the requests and we pass it out to our partners, but obviously then we support each other in our fundraisers for like, you know,
01:23:45
Speaker
Somebody does medical supplies. Somebody does radios. We do, I don't know, armor. So that's the way it goes. I can definitely send the link to my page and to our website. That would be my first two choices. Absolutely.
01:24:02
Speaker
I'm handpicking those things, so hopefully that provides enough info. Oh, absolutely. I think that's wonderful so that everybody knows where they can do something good with their money and with the time that they spent. Now it's less time because obviously we have already pre-selected the links for that. What a service. Anyway, so now we just need the wallet. Awesome.
01:24:22
Speaker
Anyway, Alex, listen, it has been an absolute pleasure.
Conclusion and Farewell
01:24:26
Speaker
It was such an insightful talk. I could actually go on for hours, but I know you're a very busy man. You earn more than six bands and you have a day job as well as we figured out today. So thank you so much for your time, your openness, your thoughts, your insights. It was amazing and it was a great ride with you. Thank you so much.
01:24:46
Speaker
Thanks for having me, man. It was a great conversation, and I really appreciate you doing this entire season. And the purpose of the podcast is great, and it's just personally a very big pleasure talking to you. Thanks. And this brings us to the end of this week's ride in the Yellow Van. Thank you very much for coming along today, again. We hope you had a good but not too comfortable ride. Thank you, Alex, for your trust in me and the work we do at Mind The Pump Productions.
01:25:13
Speaker
If you happen to be in Odessa this weekend, check out the exact details for Alex's show on Saturday in the show notes. I'm sure it will be amazing. And if you like, tag the yellow van on Instagram to share your experience.
01:25:28
Speaker
If you are Ukrainian and would like to come on the show or if you know someone who should, please don't hesitate to contact us. We are happy and grateful for anyone reaching out to us on www.yellowvanstories.com where you can also leave us your general feedback or ideas for improvements.
01:25:48
Speaker
We will be taking a break next week and we'll be back with a brand new episode on the 18th of August. Until then, keep loving in the face of fear and stand with Ukraine. Take it away Jim.
01:26:15
Speaker
Your place, like a lot of scones I break a shame, there's a dream I breathe Gone loving man and those in need And I know my attitude, it spoils you and so I should And I know my fantasy means I'm traveling to those like you Took a very, very long time
01:26:49
Speaker
message is
01:27:20
Speaker
All you standing for your rights It's the fact of your life
01:28:12
Speaker
All you stand is upon your ass