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Chiara Luxardo "Print For Crisis"
38 Plays3 years ago
Chiara is an Italian visual storyteller based in the UK in London. In her work she explores identities, relationships and gender issues.
She is an active member of Women Photograph, a non-profit launched in 2017 to elevate the voices of women* and nonbinary visual journalists.
The roots for her interest in identity and the power of relationships can be traced back to a farm near Milan, I believe, where Chiara grew up. It is a place that has been in her family's hands for many generations and her love for the place finds expression in her ongoing project Family Farm.
The Family Farm is an examination of the visual residue of previous generations in the form of old pictures, juxtaposing the findings with new original visual concepts and, thereby, galvanizing a new interpretive, dialectic space that speaks of history as a living process - never complete in its evaluation and heavily dependent on the viewer's current perspective and emotional state. History, after all, is narrated.
Chiara lived and worked in Myanmar from 2015 to 2019, where she focused on LGBTQI+ projects and the organization of Yangon Pride.
In her project Burma Love, Chiara places gay couples in front of romantic studio backgrounds, heavily borrowing from the aesthetics of Burmese wedding photos, expressing the yearning of gay couples to be accepted into the common standards and rituals of society to be regarded, ultimately, as equals amongst equals.
Her love for Myanmar is still very strong. In the light of the current democratic uprising against the military junta with rising death tolls every day, Chiara and her friend Olga Stefatou, whom you might already know from a previous episode of the Yellow Van, launched the initiative Print For Crisis.
We at Mind the Bump want to support this great idea as much as we can. In this episode, therefore, we want to focus on what it is that made Chiara fall in love with Myanmar, why we should care about what is happening there at the moment, and how help can be as simple as hanging a beautiful photo up on your wall.
SHOW NOTES
Print For Crisis Website
Print For Crisis Facebook
Print For Crisis Instagram
Chiara's Website
Chiara on Instagram
Myanmar
Yangon
Aung San Suu Kyi
Get Jim Kroft's Song, "Love In The Face Of Fear"
Mind the Bump
Yellow Van Stories is a Mind the Bump Production.
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Transcript
Arrests and Repression in Myanmar
00:00:16
Speaker
More than 60 journalists have been arrested to date, and several are being charged under a law that basically condemns any speaking up against the regime. There was a spike in arrests of also artists and celebrities, and more than 100 people are in hiding. I mean, the numbers could be a lot higher, so quite a few
00:00:40
Speaker
photographers and journalists have been shot. I have a warring situation, so we're really hoping to make a meaningful contribution for this really important cause.
Introduction to Special Episode on Myanmar's Crisis
00:00:56
Speaker
Hello and welcome to a new episode of the Yellow Van Stories, your interview podcast taking you across the globe in a yellow French campervan by the name of Fonzie. I'm your host and driver Bastian. Today we come to you with a special episode focusing on the current situation in Myanmar.
00:01:15
Speaker
I've been following the news ever since the military coup, wondering what could be done from the enormous comfort of my home to show solidarity and support for the courageous Burmese women and men fighting for their freedom. And it turns out there is a way.
00:01:33
Speaker
Fonzies in first, gear ready, and we are good to go. So buckle up and get comfortable, because today we will introduce an initiative to you that takes a stand for freedom by the simple proliferation of art.
Guest Introduction: Chiara Luxardo and Print for Crisis
00:01:52
Speaker
Here with us in the elevator today is Chiara Luxardo, an Italian visual storyteller living in London. And I am very happy to have you in the elevator today. Chiara, welcome.
00:02:03
Speaker
Ciao Basen and everyone, thanks so much for having me. It's wonderful to have you. I've been looking forward to this conversation for a long time. This flattery will definitely get you somewhere. So this is really a great opportunity to talk to you today because
Chiara's Initiative: Print for Crisis
00:02:25
Speaker
A lot of things are happening right now in Myanmar. I had already announced this two weeks ago that we would dedicate some time to the topic and that has very much to do with the amazing initiative that you've just started, Print for Crisis, which is trying to help and support the democratic struggle that's taking place right now in Myanmar. And we want to get into that a little bit today and
00:02:51
Speaker
Know a little more about your personal history with Myanmar and how we can support What is going on there at the moment? Thank you so much. Thank you for taking the time. So First of all, I would like to know you it's definitely not the most important question today like I very often say But nonetheless, I would like to know what have you what are you drinking today? Wow
Casual Conversation: Drinks and Setting
00:03:13
Speaker
Okay, I really wanted to have a beer, but I really needed a Coke.
00:03:22
Speaker
Oh, that's totally fine. That's totally fine. Coke's good. It's gonna keep you awake. I'm very much for that. Yeah, I need some sugar and some... Absolutely. Gonna help my brain. Absolutely. And talking to me can put people, make them a little sleepy, so I'm very good that you thought of that as well. I didn't think about that actually. No, no, no, it's good. It's good thinking. It's very good thinking. But because, you know, I was torn a little bit today because it's obviously, we're covering a lot of ground urine.
00:03:49
Speaker
In England, I'm saying that now, even though that would have been my next question, but you're in England, you're Italian, and we're talking about Myanmar, so I was like, okay, what drink am I going to pour? So I settled for an Italian red wine, just a simple primitivo. Oh, I'm so jealous, no. Primitivo. Oh, drink for me. Primitivo, Bella. Amazing. Yes, so cheers. Cheers, Coke and red wine. Salute. Salute. Nice to have you here. I feel a bit ashamed as an Italian to drink Coke now, but...
00:04:17
Speaker
You should not, you should not, you should not. It's not the most expensive, Primitivo. I mean, Primitivo is, as the name suggests, not the most expensive, but it's very drinkable. Yeah, it's one of my favorites for sure. It's very, very nice. Yeah, it's very, very
Life in Lincolnshire and UK Pub Reopenings
00:04:31
Speaker
nice. So, I already said where you are, where are you right now? Can you just give us a bit of an insight where you are right now? So, I'm staying in the countryside in Lincolnshire, in my mother-in-law's house.
00:04:42
Speaker
So temporarily for a month before moving to a new place in London. So it's very peaceful and quiet. Very nice. It's a sunny day, which, you know, for the UK, it's not to take for granted. And the pubs are opening tonight, so I'm actually...
00:05:01
Speaker
Really excited. No way. Yeah, today actually the pubs reopen in the whole UK. Yeah, so the village pub is open. My word, that must be like a holiday. Oh, yeah. That must be like a holiday. So British people are going to go nuts. We were looking to book. There's a pub nearby that makes really good food and it's booked up until mid-May. All right.
00:05:30
Speaker
I'm not really surprised actually. For a month, yeah. I'm not really surprised. I lived in London for a year, way back when. And you know, pop culture in England, it's something extraordinary, something unique.
00:05:45
Speaker
and that's why when you say that today is the day that the pops opening up again it's like wow i can i can only imagine what's going on in the uk right now yeah it's a frenzy it's absolutely madness probably oh yeah i don't know what happened in the streets.
00:06:01
Speaker
yeah after eleven that's gonna be interesting yeah well we want to hear all about it next time we speak please keep a diary about that i think that'll be interesting have your camera camera ready as well yeah camera ready as well historically that could be fun could be fun
Chiara's Visual Storytelling and Focus Areas
00:06:23
Speaker
So I will I will read an introduction about you and then I handcrafted by yours truly and as usual you can if I if I made some grave mistakes and writing it you please just tell me afterwards and scold me properly but but I will give it I will give it a go and then afterwards we can see if you if you think that that describes you awesome thank you okay so
00:06:51
Speaker
Chiara is an Italian visual storyteller based in the UK and London. In her work she explores identities, relationships and gender issues. She's an active member of Women Photograph, a non-profit launched in 2017 to elevate the voices of women and non-binary visual journalists.
00:07:07
Speaker
The roots for her interest and identity in the power relationships can be traced back to a farm near Milan, I believe, at least where Chiara grew up. It is a place that has been in her family's hands for many generations and her love for the place still finds expression in her ongoing project, Family Farm.
00:07:24
Speaker
The Family Farm, the project, is an examination of the visual residue of previous generations in the form of old pictures, juxtaposing the findings with new original visual concepts and thereby galvanizing a new interpretive, dialectic space that speaks of history as a living process, never complete in its evaluation and heavily dependent on the viewer's current perspective and emotional state. History, after all, is narrated.
Chiara's Time in Myanmar and LGBTQI Projects
00:07:51
Speaker
Chiara also lived and worked in Myanmar from 2015 to 2019, where she focused on LGBTQI Plus projects and the organization of Yangon Pride. In her project, Burma Love, Chiara places gay couples in front of romantic studio backgrounds, heavily borrowing from aesthetics of Burmese wedding photos, expressing the yearning of gay couples to be accepted into the common standards and rituals of society, ultimately to be regarded as equals amongst equals.
00:08:19
Speaker
Her love for Myanmar is still very strong.
Print for Crisis: Supporting Expression in Myanmar
00:08:22
Speaker
In the light of the current democratic uprising against the military junta with rising death tolls every day, Chiara and her friend Olga Steffar, to whom you might already know from a previous episode of the Elo then, launched the initiative Print for Crisis. Print for Crisis, sorry. The website states, and I think this is very important to just also make people understand where this was born, how this was born, and what your intentions are. We believe, and I quote now,
00:08:48
Speaker
We believe in the power of photography and empathy for others. In times of perpetual connection through technology, we feel responsible to not only watch, but act. Living in a world that is traumatized by fear and uncertainty, we strongly believe that helping each other is more essential than ever. We are therefore coming together to support the people of Myanmar.
00:09:09
Speaker
United, we raise awareness for freedom of expression in Myanmar with a louder voice and collect funds through a print sale of limited edition fine art prints. We are giving a platform to photographers from inside the country and those from outside who feel connected to Myanmar to make a meaningful contribution to their brothers and sisters' democracy struggle by donating a photograph.
00:09:32
Speaker
Each donated image will travel around the world to remind of beauty, connection and independence. Together, let's send a message to the Myanmar people that they are being seen. All net proceeds will go to journalists, photographers and artists, groups particularly targeted by the ruthless military regime.
00:09:50
Speaker
We at Mind the Bump and the Yellow Van absolutely share this belief in one human family and want to support this great idea as much as we can.
Chiara's Connection with Myanmar
00:09:58
Speaker
So in this episode there, if I want to focus on what it is that made Kiara fall in love with Myanmar, why we should care about what's happening there at the moment and how help can be as simple as hanging a beautiful photo up on your wall. So thank you so much for joining us in the Yellow Van today. Kiara, that's the end of my little introduction.
00:10:16
Speaker
Wow, Bastia, I have no words. I mean, wonderful. I really... Yeah, I don't know what to say. I'm very moved. Thank you so much. It's fine. Don't say anything until I get the first question out there. I'm glad you like it. It's not about really liking it. I just really feel that... I hope that it gives a bit of the whereabouts where you are right now and how this was born.
00:10:40
Speaker
And really, I think print for crisis, this is very, very important to what you are doing is amazing. And so I want to get into a little bit how this was born and how an Italian girl living in the UK has fallen in love with the place as far away as Myanmar.
00:11:00
Speaker
So that's actually one of my first questions. Do you still remember when you had this idea of going to Myanmar for the very first time? What triggered that idea? So initially, I was inspired by my uncle who traveled to Myanmar in the early... I think it was the late 80s, maybe in the early 90s. And I remember
00:11:28
Speaker
um reading his diaries so he was traveling at the time with um staying at monasteries or with nuns actually was mostly with nuns through the i think through catholic missionaries and he he had a wonderful diary that he wrote about the travels and um and he gave me this diary one year and and i think it kind of stayed with me somehow
00:11:57
Speaker
always as a destination that I really wanted to explore that I found so fascinating and interesting and then finally the opportunity came in in 2014 to organize a two-month trip traveling all around the country with my ex at the time and when I
00:12:22
Speaker
I mean, I, yeah, I fell in love with the country, I would say, after the first couple of weeks. And I thought, wow, you know, of all the countries that I visited, it just had something special. And, and it just really moved me and, and I found the people so different and so, so kind. And so, how can I say they really,
00:12:52
Speaker
I felt like they were really looking for connection. Basically, I started thinking, wow, it would be so amazing to come and live here for a while.
00:13:08
Speaker
Before that, I had mostly been traveling in Asia. So I started my first trip was in India for an internship after my university for four months. And then I did Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam, all the very Southeast Asian countries, Indonesia, etc. All these nice places. But none of them struck me like Myanmar.
00:13:35
Speaker
Yeah, basically, I went crazy. I came back home and in six months, I packed my bag and I was like, okay, I'm off. Bye-bye. I finished some work I had. Yeah, and off I went.
00:13:48
Speaker
But it's not so easy to just pack your bags and say, okay, this is what I'm doing. There has to be a very strong emotional connection. What was that for you? Was it really mainly the people? Was it the places, the mix of it all? Is there anything in particular? Is it really just that you're just stumped by the entire experience there?
Myanmar's Socio-Political Landscape Discussion
00:14:14
Speaker
I think it was a mix between the people that really, really touched me and really how interesting and fascinating the country itself is from our historical and social point of view as a photographer to have the opportunity to really live in a place like this for some time and kind of
00:14:45
Speaker
try to, you know, because I also find it really unique compared to other neighboring countries. So I think, yeah, just the, oh my god, I hope you can add it after.
00:15:02
Speaker
Don't worry. First of all, I can edit. And second of all, you know, it's like, don't blame yourself. Blame me because maybe my question is just not not to the point enough, which is the case very often. So so don't be hard on yourself. Rather be hard on me. So I will make it.
00:15:21
Speaker
I will make it, I will ask you the question a little more poignantly, right? For me that would be, for one thing that interests me and that ties in a little bit also with the democratic struggle that we're seeing right now, is that Myanmar is a very multi-ethnic country, right? This is at the bottom a little bit, according to my understanding. So bear with me, you have a much better understanding of Myanmar than I do because I've never been and I just read up on the stuff that we know.
00:15:51
Speaker
there is a there's a big gap there very often but from my understanding it's a multi-ethnic country and this is what is causing a lot of the unrest in the country. So for you and you were in Myanmar, was it something that you could identify and I want to know this from you also especially because
00:16:08
Speaker
You have dedicated such a large part of your work to the topic of identity and relationships. So you have a really good antenna for these things as well. Is this something that you picked up already while you were there? This multi-ethnic makeup of the society and some of the problems that come with it? Was that a matter of
00:16:27
Speaker
Intriguing you as well and maybe what something do you want to explore how did you feel about that yeah for sure I thought that its complexity was really interesting I did I think the first time I travel there I had no idea of actually how. How really complicated and how.
00:16:46
Speaker
intricate the whole situation was. And it took me a long time to understand, even being there for maybe years. I think even after one year, some things I started to understand. The second year, all right, now I'm understanding a bit more. On the third year, again, another step up, it was really a very, very long process. I mean, I studied really hard the language.
00:17:16
Speaker
Before I studied Burmese, I thought I was actually talented and good with languages. And then after I started learning Burmese, my self-esteem had like a massive drop.
00:17:30
Speaker
Because it's a humbling experience, right? Yeah, very, very much indeed. It's the same for Greek and me. Same with Greek and me. Yeah, it was really tough. It helped a lot. But of course, I'm not fluent at all. But, you know, initially to have a basic conversation, I could manage that, which really, really helped a lot in terms of connecting. But then, you know, certain things, if you don't, yeah, if you're not fluent, and if you're not from the country, I think certain things are impossible to understand with our kind of
00:18:01
Speaker
culture, background and mindset is just is very complicated. But in terms of if I can make an example, like in terms of gender equality, it took me quite some time to understand
00:18:21
Speaker
really how the situation is because initially it's not things that you would see or perceive as a foreigner in the country actually on a daily basis but then you know speaking to people and yeah reading things it really it was one of the first aha moments like oh wow okay actually this is how it is
00:18:47
Speaker
And how was it? How is it? If you were to compare it, not that comparisons are always the best thing to do, but I think in this particular instance, maybe it will help a little bit. If you compared the situation of the LGBTQI plus community in Myanmar, for instance, and in Italy or in the UK, where would the differences be?
Challenges for LGBTQI+ Community in Myanmar
00:19:09
Speaker
Wow, yeah, it's really, it's a hard one, but it's a really difficult situation because, well, the British, during colonialism, created this 377 law that basically condemns homosexuality and sodomy. And ever since, it's been in the law.
00:19:39
Speaker
In practice, it gets rarely enforced, but it really creates a climate of oppression for LGBTIQ people. There are instances when people get arrested and they get actually persecuted with this law. I don't know if sometimes it's an excuse for
00:20:08
Speaker
getting some people out of the way. But yeah, it is. It's quite a problem. There are a lot of cases of trans women being harassed even by the police. So yeah, it's quite and they are being mocked very much in sort of movies and jokes. So it's and there's no kind of
00:20:36
Speaker
law that could protect them, right, in these regards. So there's a clear stigmatization and... There's quite a lot of stigmatization, but then again, it's also very complicated, right? Because for instance, you see a lot of cases of trans women that work as natka dos, spirit mediums.
00:20:59
Speaker
I mean, not not all spirit mediums are trans, but there are many. And in these cases, I mean, they are really respected and adored and given a lot of importance by people. You see quite a lot of makeup artists as well, hairdressers, you know, this in certain professions, professions, they find
00:21:26
Speaker
they find their space. But then, yeah, on the other hand, you also see a lot of discrimination. And yeah, I did a project on focusing on tomboys. And in quite a few instances, a few of them told me that they wish or kind of like more like they, they were choosing to, to look more like a man so that they would be more accepted because of the, you know, heteronormative
00:21:57
Speaker
and binary norms in a conservative Buddhist society. So basically, you know, telling me like, okay, we are actually, you know, dressing up more boyish also because we can, we look like a boy and a girl. And so, yeah, we're not going to be as discriminated. And harassed, I suppose. And harassed. A lot of times. For sure.
00:22:28
Speaker
So this is obviously a longer transition that this takes, unfortunately, you know, because things don't change overnight. We all know that, unfortunately, as much as we would like to. And you having been
00:22:44
Speaker
you know, making change also part of your, your examination of identity, and everything, I think it is also safe to say that it's actually quite clear in retrospect now that you would also get involved with the Yangon pride a little bit. And how did how did that happen? Where I mean, it's not like you go to a foreign country, and then all of a sudden, you're also getting involved with like something as, as, you know, intense and beautiful and, and outgoing,
00:23:11
Speaker
as the Yangon pride, so how did that happen? How did you get into that, slide into that I would imagine, but tell us, that's right. I think initially it was a bit by accident because I did a project on tomboys and trans men in Myanmar with a colleague of mine, Sara Mani, so she came over from Milan, she's also a good friend of mine and we worked on this for a month together in Yangon, so we photographed 10 couples
00:23:35
Speaker
And then I sent the project to the Yangon pride at the time it was called and proud because it was only a film festival at the beginning. So I sent them the photo project, they had like a contest going on on LGBT work, and they loved it. And you know, they got in touch and they said, Oh, we would really like to make an exhibition of it of this blah, blah, blah. So I met them. They showed the project.
00:24:02
Speaker
Initially, I think, in a gallery. And then one of the people in the team was starting to work on the first public edition of Yangon Pride. So the first proper festival in a public space. So everything was growing, they finally got permission to do this from the municipality of Yangon.
00:24:32
Speaker
And he was just telling me how things were going. They were expecting thousands of people. They were building a big, big, big stage with celebrities' performance. They were planning many exhibitions, drag races, and lots of activities. And I remember he was quite cool. That sounds like a hell of a party. Oh, yeah. I mean, it was so amazing, I have to say. I wish I could go back there now.
00:25:03
Speaker
He was really swamped with the organization. I remember telling him, look, if you need some help, just let me know and I would love to get involved. That's how it started. A few months later, I was on board and helping them with the first edition, which took place. Amazing.
00:25:27
Speaker
Now, so if they had three, last year was the third year, 2020, so must have been 2018. Wow. I think that's after you had been in Myanmar for two years then, right? Yeah, I moved there at the end of 2015.
00:25:51
Speaker
And did you only stay, where did you stay? You stayed only in Yangon or did you also go stay in other places? I was only living in Yangon. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was using Yangon as a base and then I was traveling quite a bit, but I actually, depending on the periods, so I did some work for some NGOs that sent me traveling to different areas. But yeah.
00:26:15
Speaker
Yangon is the base. Doing photography work there as well. Doing photography work, yeah. So I was freelancing, I was mostly freelancing for international magazines and local NGOs, local and international NGOs. Wow, okay. So usually I would say that also the
00:26:42
Speaker
First of all, to organize something like the Yangon pride in Yangon and Myanmar, it's not just in Myanmar, but I think the world over, the more gay rights a country is willing to accommodate in their already pre-existing societal structures, it's also a sign of a society opening
Democratic Progress and Internet's Impact in Myanmar
00:27:01
Speaker
up.
00:27:01
Speaker
right? At least that's my understanding. So this is also an indication how the society was opening up, therefore. So how would you describe the spirit at that time in general? Because you also did this project in transition, which is also a remarkable project, I think. And everybody, I will link to your website and people should really check out your wonderful projects and also that
00:27:26
Speaker
project in particular. It has to do with a lot of people with a lot of people. It has to do with people in transition in the sense of protesting for their rights, wanting to transform society, wanting change that they
00:27:42
Speaker
can be a part of because for 50 years already Myanmar had been under a military dictatorship and only in 2010, correct me if I'm wrong, I think they had the first democratic elections. Now we will not get into the details, not about how a quarter of those seats were still held by the military and so on and so on, but it was a huge step, right? And you got there six years after. What was the general feeling there at the time?
00:28:07
Speaker
Can you imagine one big one big change was brought about with the internet. Because even when I moved there, when I was traveling there in 2014, actually, the connection was really slow and SIM cards were more expensive. I mean, the years before, they would even cost $100. Nobody would have like an internet SIM card, right? You know, let's say 2013-14. So then,
00:28:36
Speaker
Internet came and it got really cheap quite fast And more and more internet companies Came out, you know, I mean the coverage until a few months ago now the whole country's shut down completely unfortunately from the internet but before that you would find you know farmers in the middle of nowhere with their phone connected on Facebook right recently, so I
00:29:05
Speaker
I think that was a big kind of motor of change for people, for information, for freedom in a way. And of course, an internet has its downsides as well. You don't have to get into that. But this was a really, really... That's a whole other conversation. Yeah. And yeah, Yangon was the...
00:29:31
Speaker
exploding in terms of change, constructions, roads. It was really quite shocking how it changed in six months. You would just see a shopping mall suddenly. Boom. I remember in 2015, I couldn't find underwear for myself.
00:29:55
Speaker
like in terms of like just normal coat on my size underwear I was really struggling because there was one ball and yeah sometimes size was not good because I'm quite tall yeah and I mean yeah but yeah you find well when you're when you're traveling you know when you're traveling
00:30:22
Speaker
Exactly. And when you're traveling, we all know, you know, I mean, you can, you can get away with so much more stuff, you know, and, and even though you're living abroad, and you're living in Myanmar, you can always just qualify as traveling. So it's totally fine. Way under way inside out, you know, who cares? Nobody, nobody will change them. Yeah, exactly. So so no harm done there. But so what you're describing there is
00:30:47
Speaker
there was a spirit of departure into a new era, right? I think it was something that was very much, it was in the air, it was almost touchable. More and more companies, yeah, more and more companies came in as well to do business, more, so many also local kind of small local initiatives in terms, even just tourism wise, the small family guest houses that finally,
00:31:15
Speaker
would just pop up everywhere around the country. And this was just really recently because a decade ago, it was just mostly government-run hotels. So it really underwent a crazy transformation in so many sectors and so quickly. Yeah. It's like a fast forward to globalization at like three times the speed of other places, right?
Economic Complications Amidst Crisis
00:31:48
Speaker
And which is also one of the, at least from what I've read and what I understand is one of the problems also though of this booming economy is also that
00:32:00
Speaker
The military is also very much invested in the infrastructure and in me and my economy, right? They're funding themselves pretty much. So that's why you have a lot of military running a lot of business operations and therefore the shutting down of certain things will really hurt them financially and therefore it is even more difficult to come to some sort of a conclusion in the current state now, right?
00:32:23
Speaker
is really tough. Yeah, it's gonna be really tough for the people as well. I think the military will still manage to do some businesses because some countries are not gonna actually, I mean, some countries are still gonna engage mostly ASEAN countries, especially China. They're not really gonna say, oh, yeah, your human rights are
00:32:53
Speaker
not doing great, so we're backing off. They're never going to do that. They will still get some financing. Let's see how it's going to be, but many businesses are going to be really, really hurt. It breaks my heart to think about all the small family-owned businesses that recently started that are just going to be destroyed.
00:33:24
Speaker
at the moment. Yeah. Did you at the time also like I'm going just in between that period now as well when you did your in-transition work because you know
00:33:38
Speaker
to have this moment of departure in a society and then having a democratic process. It's the one thing having and also wanting democracy, but it is something that takes place in a lot of small places. I think democratic infrastructure is something that also grows through community, the little communities, to lay down the little pieces there, to have some sort of a representation in the little villages,
00:34:07
Speaker
you know elections and so on and so on it's nothing that has changes on a big scale it is something that really changes on the small scale first of all did you at that time already see that happening how was that that transformation in Myanmar taking place? I think the I mean I would say honestly that
00:34:31
Speaker
I mean, I might be taking sides now, but like Yangon pride was the first edition of pride in a public park with about 8,000 people over three days was one of those moments where it was like, okay, wow, you know, something is changing. And, and it was just such a hard year because, uh,
00:34:52
Speaker
Well, the genocide happened earlier. The Rohingya genocide? The Rohingya genocide. There were a lot of, yeah, so really awful things happening at the same time. That was the same year? Well, it was before, I think. Because I need to check when the first edition of Pride was.
00:35:18
Speaker
Oh my God, I'm really bad with that. We had pride the year after, or two years after. The Rohingya genocide happened before pride. And I remember thinking about the bad things that are happening when I saw
00:35:41
Speaker
all these people and including, you know, little scenes like maybe you would see the policeman with the kids looking at an exhibition about LGBT people, you know, but like interestingly looking at it like it was or, you know, you would see a couple holding hands or, you know, a couple like super nicely dressed and cute, you know, going around looking and reading super carefully all the captions of the photos and
00:36:08
Speaker
or hugging during a concert. It was really super moving and I thought, wow, something is changing here. It's actually quite impressive. We're having a gay festival in a country that condemns homosexuality. It's really the idea itself, but also giving them a place and a space because there aren't any.
00:36:41
Speaker
So the second year of Pride we also did a boat parade on the river. So we had like three big boats and then a flotilla of small boats coming after us with some rainbow flags. And it was a bit kind of the only way to do a sort of demonstration because we weren't able to get any permission to do a proper street parade.
00:37:07
Speaker
And we somehow... Why was that? Well, in general, they are not very, let's say, they don't encourage ever since. I think it's something that comes back historically from the other big demonstrations they had in the past decades. They don't grant easily permission for street protests. It's very hard. You need to kind of ask permission in every township.
00:37:36
Speaker
And it's also, you know, yeah, it can get very messy. So we, we kind of bypassed this idea and yeah, we had our little, our little pride on the river twice and we would then- Because it's safer, generally speaking. Yeah, safer and kind of more manageable to organize. Yeah.
00:38:02
Speaker
without risks and yeah. All right. And now I would like to take it a little from the time that you're describing now and to go to what is happening at the moment.
Military Coup and People's Fight for Freedom
00:38:20
Speaker
Because what you've just described is this departure, the spirit of departure of something new, of social transformation, societal transformation.
00:38:29
Speaker
And then just recently, most of us have seen it on the news, the military they have taken over the country basically after a landslide election victory from what I know by Aung San Suu Kyi, which is the president.
00:38:49
Speaker
or used to be the president, actually normally still is the president, right? Who's at the house arrest now. Yeah, technically, exactly. And was put on a house arrest and the military took over the streets and basically said that they will have an intermediary phase of transition of power in some way because they are claiming that there wasn't a proper, the elections were rigged or whatsoever what we hear a lot at the moment.
00:39:16
Speaker
So this did something in Myanmar though that I think rests very much in what you have just described, this spirit that they had before of transformation of something new after they had been under military rule already for 50 years and they had the slight opening up of their country with freedom being something else, something that they hadn't experienced like that before. So this is a yearning. They have touched this in a way and now it's taken away from them again.
00:39:45
Speaker
Very well said. Could I put it this way? Yeah, absolutely. Amazingly said, yeah. And this is the current state of affairs. So this is also why you see people not just despite, and this is something I think that we can't stress enough in this.
00:40:00
Speaker
For fear of life and limb, people are still taking to the streets, facing tanks, military vehicles, automatic weapons, and the military are not afraid to use them.
00:40:15
Speaker
I think the last count and as terrible as it is to even have a body count in that sense or a victim or whatever you want to call it, 600 people officially have been killed already and I think it's safe to say that it's a lot more than that. Oh yeah, more than 700 for sure and some have not been yet verified but it's really
00:40:42
Speaker
It's really shocking and unbelievable and i think especially the young generation is. Is not giving up and is really playing a big big part in this i think. Understandable is their future and you know they they as you said they have they have tasted what freedom is and. And through the internet and and and change significant change fast change.
00:41:11
Speaker
they are not giving up easily. Which I wonder if that's something that kind of the military knew knows, but yeah, the resistance has been amazing. And women as well have taken like an incredible role. I've really been on the front line, both on the street as well as doing work behind the scenes.
00:41:38
Speaker
in their own various professional capacities, they have been really, really fantastic. It's really moving.
00:41:50
Speaker
I think, yes, I think, I think what is really so incredibly, I don't even, I also struggle to find the right adjectives because yeah, it's inspiring, whatever, but I just really, it's, it's, it's absolutely admirable how much courage is being shown and displayed in a situation that is
00:42:14
Speaker
you do not know what the day will bring. You go on the streets, you're really at a very high risk of being shot at, of being seriously hurt or killed. And people are not backing down and they're continuing their struggle despite all these odds. And it is something that is absolutely amazing. Yeah.
00:42:35
Speaker
It also shows you what a good and what an amazing commodity freedom is. For all of us who know it, we take it as granted and it's a given. But it is one of the greatest gifts that we can possibly call our own. And in Myanmar, people are exactly fighting for that right now. And it's inspiring. And I think it really needs and deserves our support just for that. The one human family that I said in the opening,
00:43:04
Speaker
This is how it functions through solidarity. And I think this is a good moment now as well to come to the initiative that you started, Print for Crisis with Olga Stefato.
Launching Print for Crisis Post-Coup
00:43:16
Speaker
A good acquaintance, a former guest also on the podcast where she also already spoke about Myanmar.
00:43:24
Speaker
before all of this happened, and so you shared that love for the country and you decided to do what exactly? Now, you explain instead of me. Yeah, so I met Olga in 2015 when I had just moved to Myanmar and she was in Yangon for one of her travels. So then we also did some traveling together, we stayed in touch. And one week after the coup, she reached out to me and said,
00:43:54
Speaker
We need to do something about this. I mean, you know, let's have a call. We really, really, really need to help and organize something from the photography community. So we had a nice chat and, you know, she said, why, what do you think about organizing a small print sale? Maybe we can gather, you know, 20 photographers and
00:44:19
Speaker
just do an online temporary sale and donate some proceeds to a certain cause. It's like, okay, great. So everything since then has exploded because, yeah, we thought initially it was going to be something short and sweet, informal, you know, small and manageable. It became a Titanic enterprise.
00:44:45
Speaker
But we are super happy and proud and excited because we managed to get together 80 photographers from all over the world including about 10 in the country and each of them donated one image that we are selling as a fully archival sea-type print for one month. So from today, well from
00:45:15
Speaker
12th of April to 12th of May. And we are donating all the net proceeds to media outlets and journalists support networks and networks supporting cash aid for artists. So basically everything related to freedom of expression, let's say. And it was the most natural
00:45:42
Speaker
let's say calls that came up for us as you know, to support our colleagues. And also the situation for both journalists and artists is really, really difficult. More than 60 journalists have been arrested to date, and several are being charged under a law that basically condemns any sort of
00:46:11
Speaker
speaking up against the regime. There was a spike in arrests of also artists and celebrities that spoke up lately in the last few days. And more than 100 people are in hiding. I mean, the numbers could be a lot higher. But yeah, from the latest that that I was Yeah, so quite a few photographers and journalists have been shot.
00:46:39
Speaker
And yeah, it's really a rewarding situation. So we're really hoping to make a meaningful contribution for this really important cause. I think you already are making a great contribution because, you know, first of all, I think you are just
00:47:08
Speaker
Just looking at what you just looking at the cause the cause is wonderful the cause is great wonderful you know it is it is something at least to take a stand I believe which is something that's very very important and especially with your love relationship with the country.
00:47:24
Speaker
It's wonderful that you're doing that and also to Olga, big shout out to Olga as well. And you have also managed to, I have to stress that, put together an absolutely wonderful portfolio of images. I've seen the website and it is...
00:47:43
Speaker
Ah, it is just so beautiful. So many beautiful images. And you know, usually people that know me know I very easily become ironic and stuff. I won't even go down that road. It's just wonderful. It's just beautiful. It is a great, great page with wonderful images. And you have great photographers as well, like including you, including Olga.
00:48:08
Speaker
I think my God, I'm terrible now. Yeah. Uh, Christian Perkins, um, John Fink, uh, from Magnum. Those are the ones that stuck with me. Like really an amazing portfolio of wonderful photographers for a very, very reasonable price. I think 90 pounds, if I remember correctly. Yeah. So, you know, so doing good by buying a wonderful
00:48:35
Speaker
Photo for a great price uh you know like it serves all the purposes it so that's for that it's it's it's already wonderful project how was it when you started planning this because you said it kind of grew and it became so big how did it become so big what was the reason for that like because we say we want to have 20 photographers okay we're done thank you very much but uh but you said it just became so big how did that happen
00:49:02
Speaker
So I think we initially reached out to 20, but initially, we didn't get many responses. So we were like, oh, wow, okay, so maybe we should email more people, right? We did our independent research and through our networks, people whose work we admire that we had seen coming out of Myanmar or kind of colleagues, friends of friends who suggested some names as well. So
00:49:29
Speaker
I think yeah, we started like that and we're like, oh, we're not getting so many replies. So we emailed more people and then just suddenly basically 90% said yes. So but what we didn't take into account was that people often reply under deadline. When you put a deadline for something. Lessons learned. Lessons learned.
00:49:52
Speaker
Maybe photographers, in particular, reply under deadline if possible. I think there's a good chance that there's a connection, yes. Yes, the numbers skyrocketed. Some people also got excited and told other people who then got in touch with us. We launched today and we already received about 15 emails from photographers that would like to join and donate an image.
00:50:21
Speaker
Now we need to see exactly what we're going to do about that, how we're going to manage extra people joining because we have a lot on our plate to take care of. Social media being the main thing because neither me nor Olga are social media managers. We're not really great at it either. It's a lot of work that we never forecasted, but everything has been
00:50:49
Speaker
a lot of work, like just opening up a social enterprise in England, in some ways it's fast and easy, right? Because you do all the paperwork online, it's £27, the registration, etc. So yes, but then still, there is a lot to figure out about it that you need to really investigate, understand, etc. So yeah, I mean, compared to Italy, I would say very fast and efficient, but it is still a lot of work.
00:51:20
Speaker
And it's an indication also, and this is why I also asked the question, to see that you are met with so much support and solidarity, reaching out to photographers. I personally know that that's not always the case if you ask photographers to just give their image for a cause, and understandably so as well, because images can very often be used in a context that you're not okay with.
00:51:47
Speaker
if you are the author of a photo. So you should be careful. I think it's due diligence because you don't want your own images to support a cause that you are not supporting yourself and the danger is there. So no criticism there, no judgment. But nonetheless, in this particular instance,
00:52:07
Speaker
Photographers just really came and wanted to help, wanted to support you because they felt that this was something they wanted to see their photo contribute to, their work contribute to.
Global Photographers Support Print for Crisis
00:52:20
Speaker
And that's extraordinary in itself. And it shows that we can just rise above when we just feel that there's something that is undoubtedly a good cause. Absolutely. Is that your experience as well, this kind of solidarity that you've met?
00:52:37
Speaker
Yeah, it's been it's been amazing. And also, you know, consider that for some photographers, this might also be a tricky time. I mean, okay, it's fine. You're donating an image, you're not doing it. But you know, still, I mean, you're still giving, giving a good, you know, beautiful, important photograph for free. And I am also conscious that for some of us, these are really, really hard times. So
00:53:04
Speaker
It's I find it pretty amazing that the response has been overall. Of course, we got a few that were a bit uptight and that, you know, they replied to a thing that they would never send their precious photograph to an unknown person. So a few of these we had, but they're very small, very, very small compared to the numbers. So I mean, that's with everything.
00:53:36
Speaker
Yes. And also, you know, no judgment there. But like I said, it's good to, you know, make sure who uses your images and stuff. But that's why, like, if you say kind of 90% or something like that, that's absolutely extraordinary. And it just shows that... Great.
00:53:51
Speaker
You know, human beings are, they are good, I believe, in essence and at heart. And they just need the right kind of rallying cry. I think that's just what's maybe missing sometimes. And in this particular circumstance, it seems to have met exactly that sentence. It's also so amazing, I think, as a photographer to finally use the medium in a new way.
00:54:16
Speaker
Which is not just publishing a story, doing an exhibition, but it's actually using photography to raise money and awareness as well, yes, but for something important that we really care about. Both me and Aldo were really motivated by this idea to find a new purpose for the medium.
00:54:43
Speaker
Wonderful. So now what I would like to know as well from you is how did you find all the photographers? Where did you find? Did you just randomly write to all the photographers in the world? Or was it obviously mainly like agencies? Was it photographers you knew as well, of course, I suppose?
00:55:06
Speaker
I met quite a few in Myanmar that just came through the country, the photo community there is quite small, so I did manage to meet a lot of them personally. Then we had a friend who has the photography gallery in Yangon called Myanmar Data, a wonderful space, and he also gave us a hand
00:55:30
Speaker
with scouting some photographers through his network that he knows and then yeah I think with Olga we kind of we put the word out and we did also some kind of agency stalking online so we did look up a few agency photographers you know if they had worked in Myanmar
00:55:54
Speaker
And yeah, it's I mean, sometimes it's tricky because you know, some photographers maybe had worked in Myanmar, but they didn't have work about Myanmar on the website. So, of course, we missed some of those as well. But yeah, a friend also from Angkor photo festival, which is the festival in the region, helped us putting a little call out on Facebook. So we got a few contacts from her as well. So yeah, we did it.
00:56:22
Speaker
Mostly through word of mouth. I guess another way to do it would be to put out an open call Probably it's another option But then I guess yeah, that would be yeah, maybe through social networks, you know one could yeah Put an official call out next time if there will be a next time if we survive
00:56:47
Speaker
Well, actually, this is a whole other thing as well, because in order to do this, you had to start an NGO, right?
Establishing a Non-Profit for Accountability
00:56:55
Speaker
This is really not an initiative.
00:56:59
Speaker
Yeah, give us a bit more detail because it's a difference between, you know, okay, here's this initiative and I'm just giving my money to these two wonderful ladies that have this idea. But this is really, you did the whole works, right? My goodness, yeah. This is the whole shebang, right? To put it into these fancy words.
00:57:19
Speaker
We had a hard time figuring this out initially. Of course, you can do it from your personal bank account, let's say. You could also do this as an individual. However, if you want to make something professional, a bit bigger, proper, it's not really the best solution. I guess when we were talking with Olga, we had two options initially and one was to open our own
00:57:49
Speaker
nonprofit and the second one was to partner with an existing organization. So the partnering with an existing organization is not so simple because actually people, especially connected to Myanmar, are very busy. It also had to be something connected to our cause, people that we trusted, people that could properly support us.
00:58:14
Speaker
with accounting banking everything so it turned out to be more tricky than we thought the partnering situation and so we open print for crisis which is a community interest company so technically it's basically a non-profit because by law there's no shares distribution
00:58:35
Speaker
and everything is regulated through the community and just company commission. Everything is on public record, report accounts, all of it. We found an accountant who's supporting us, a non-profit person specialist who is helping us with reporting. It took a while to figure out, honestly. It was a new thing for us as well.
00:59:05
Speaker
Yes, lifelong learning, hashtag lifelong learning. Yeah, there were, I mean, my advice would be, you know, if someone wants to put in place anything similar, just, you know, you have to stick to it, like resilience and, you know, keep going. There would be lots of hurdles, ups and downs, bumps along the way from all sides.
00:59:29
Speaker
things you never forecasted, weird paperwork issues, whatever, but just keep going and eventually you're going to get there. But it probably took us three times as much as we thought in terms of time to set this up overall.
00:59:51
Speaker
Sounds like your average photography documentary project, the one I just put there. What are your hopes for the initiative? Do you have a number of what you want to
01:00:13
Speaker
of a sales number? Is there a particular goal that you have or are you just taking it day by day and you're thinking every cent counts?
Awareness and Connection to Myanmar
01:00:25
Speaker
Definitely. Yeah, absolutely. We haven't thought about it much. We're really hoping it's going to go well and that we are going to be able to raise some good money for this. We're also planning to distribute it to different networks. Of course, it means all the money has to be then divided up.
01:00:43
Speaker
basically by four. So hopefully we will sell many. But let's see, you know, everything we're happy with, with whatever will work. Yes, so every every photo counts. Absolutely. Yeah, totally. And you know, also the idea, I mean, we really love the idea of
01:01:13
Speaker
of these photos traveling to like all over the world in people's home to just really remind us of Myanmar and not to forget it, especially now that the country is literally being cut off from the whole world because all mobile internet and all Wi Fi's are off. They are cutting fiber lines as well. So less and less information is going to come out of there. We're just really
01:01:43
Speaker
Hoping to keep momentum and keep me and Mar in our thoughts.
01:01:53
Speaker
I think what you're just saying is also important to point out that it's very difficult to get an inside picture of Myanmar at the moment, because as we're speaking, everything is being closed. You've repeatedly said that the internet is being shut down. I understand that there's a German and Italian talking about Myanmar. Obviously,
01:02:17
Speaker
who can best speak for me and Ma are Burmese people themselves, right? We are very much aware of that, but it is very, very difficult at the moment to have your ear on the ground and to reach people there because the infrastructure at the moment is almost non-existent to make a remote call like we're doing right now. We'll keep on trying, of course as well, and see what we can do.
01:02:43
Speaker
But in the meantime, it's an Italian and a German here. It's wonderful what you are doing. The initiative is really worth, so worth supporting. Even regardless of the cause, the images are just beautiful. I think I just have to stress that enough as well. You have also an image in there. It's great. I think
01:03:12
Speaker
Yes. Is there anything else that you have on mind that you would like to share with the audience? I read here and this is what you said. I just want to quickly read that actually before you share your thoughts. Each donated image will travel around the world to remind of beauty, connection, and independence. Together, let's send a message to the Myanmar people that they're being seen. It's the best way to describe the initiative as well.
01:03:40
Speaker
art being a medium that connects, that builds bridges, and that puts us all a little closer together, maybe. Absolutely. I think that's... Yeah, absolutely. So, I think I can't stress enough. I think we have done this. We will also try in the next four, three weeks. Well, you just said you launched today, so today is Monday the 12th. The episode will be coming out on Thursday.
01:04:05
Speaker
which is the, let me do my maths right, 12th, 13th, 14th, 15th of April, so coming out in three days. And we will be covering this and supporting you in this with additional interviews. We have some things lined up. Like I said as well already, we have to see how everything works out because it is a little difficult to have a call into Myanmar and so on. We're seeing what we can do there. For the internet unfortunately, yeah.
01:04:32
Speaker
Exactly. So we will see what we can do. And in the meantime, really, I can just recommend highly to everybody listening today that they get a really very, very, very reasonably priced, very beautiful photo on printforcrisis.org. I will link to that. And it is, yeah, it will definitely be worth each and every one of your time.
01:05:00
Speaker
Anything in closing, Kiara? Anything you want to share with the audience? Oh, thank you so much, Bastian. I mean, I think it was great. Thank you. I'm sorry about my limited cognitive capacity today because with the launch and all the work and last night being up until late, it's been a bit of a... Yeah, brain. What are you talking about? Slow brain.
01:05:23
Speaker
You've been doing great, you've been doing absolutely wonderful. It was absolutely wonderful to have you on board of the Yellow Van. And really, if there is one good excuse anyway, if you really think there was some lack in your cognitive performance today,
01:05:42
Speaker
then you have been up and nights and days are running this trying to figure it out i also know that you had extreme trouble opening a bank account and you had to deal with a lot of with a with a lot of unexpected majeure forces to put it that way and
01:06:01
Speaker
And yeah, so really no reason to apologize only for me to say thank you that people like you are doing this in a time where people need to be seen and need to know that they're not alone and the world is watching and giving them their attention. So thank you very much for sharing it and talking so well about it really.
01:06:24
Speaker
I don't know if I talk well about it. I do my very best. But anyway, this is where I have to cut all the microphones. Tiara, it was such a pleasure to have you. Keep doing the wonderful work that you are doing. And like I said, the next weeks we will also report back and see what's happening and keep this in our focus. So thank you very, very much for being with us today.
01:06:52
Speaker
Thank you so much. Have a wonderful night and speak to you soon. Grazie, you too. Ciao supervastia, thank you. And this marks the end of this week's trip in the yellow van. If we manage to spark your interest in solidarity for current events in Myanmar, please take five minutes and visit printforcrisis.org.
01:07:11
Speaker
Even if you are just in it for a nice, affordable, limited edition fine art print for your wall, this is a great opportunity to fill that nagging blank space above your dinner table. Because, as it turns out, doing good for yourself as well as others doesn't have to be mutually exclusive. And don't forget to tell your friends about it either.
01:07:34
Speaker
All information about Kiara and what she does besides coming up with valuable initiatives, you can find in the show notes along with all other relevant links to today's conversation. Thank you so much for coming along on the Yellow Van today. We hope you enjoyed your time on the road with us. We sure enjoyed our time with you. If you feel I missed some essential questions or follow-ups, like I'm sure I did, send them to us and we will have them answered for you.
01:08:02
Speaker
or get in touch with Kiara directly through the Print for Crisis website for everything directly related to the print sale. For the duration of the print sale over the next month, we will try to get Burmese voices on the show as well and plan for an extended stay in Myanmar. As the development of the situation is quite unpredictable at the moment, it will be a little touch and go. So please bear with us.
01:08:30
Speaker
We hope to welcome you back next week for a brand new episode from or about Myanmar. Until then, stay healthy, keep loving, and always remember, we are one human family. Take it away, Jim.
01:09:00
Speaker
Living in the base of fear Keep shouting that you are here Talking about bells and dears
01:09:33
Speaker
It's the fact of the life, all you standing for the rights It's the fact of the life, all you standing for the rights
01:10:21
Speaker
You stand