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Nick Torzhevskyi "Ukraine Rebirth"
42 Plays2 years ago
Nick Torzhevsky is a film director and producer from Kyiv with over 10 years of experience directing and producing broadcast TV series, commercials, and feature films.
Nick's latest project, Ukraine Rebirth, is putting a focus on the rebuilding of Ukraine after the war - something that struck me as extraordinary as the war is still raging on without an end in sight. On the website of Ukraine Rebirth, the project is introduced as follows:
How exactly the idea for the project was born and how Nick is feeding his seemingly inexhaustible optimism is something we will be discussing in today's show. And, as always, a lot more.
SHOW NOTES
Find Nick Here
Ukraine Rebirth
Instagram
Facebook
Ukraine Rebirth Collaborators
LGBTQI+ Story
Stanislav Morozov (director)
Stanislav Medvedev (screenwriter)
Olexiy Gladushevskyi (creative producer)
Evgeniy Usanov (director of photography)
Kyiv Story
Nataliya Torzhevska (screenwriter)
Stanislav Savchenko (director of photography)
Cherson Story
Julia Tribrat (director)
Lana Iermakova (screenwriter)
Support the Kickstarter Campaign here
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ukrainerebirthlgbtq/ukraine-rebirth-lgbtq
MUSIC
Love In The Face Of Fear, Jim Kroft
Yellow Van Stories is a Mind The Bump Production
Yellow Van Stories is a Mind the Bump Production.
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Transcript
The Significance of Ukraine's Independence Day
00:00:05
Speaker
I don't believe that this is also the story of how every one of us should stand up and understand what Ukraine is now on the verge of Independence Day and the 31st year of independence and counting and it will be counting and for that I am absolutely sure. I believe that this is what the independence is for for myself.
00:00:32
Speaker
is to stand up for something bigger than you and this something which is bigger than you is really important in your life because it makes you become more than you.
00:00:50
Speaker
Hello and welcome to a new episode of the Yellow Van Stories. We are so happy and grateful that you have made the time to come on board with us today. I'm your host and driver Bastian. We've been waiting just for you and kept your usual seat by the window side.
Countering Narratives Through Storytelling
00:01:06
Speaker
After Russia's invasion of Ukraine, the topic of the second season became very clear to us at my department. We decided to invite Ukrainians into the van to share their stories with us and to learn more about Ukraine's cultural identity. Because too often it has been appropriated by a chauvinistic Russian narrative. The same narrative now serving as a pretense to the war.
00:01:30
Speaker
supporting Ukraine in our opinion, therefore has a very strong cultural dimension as well.
00:01:37
Speaker
Yesterday, on the 24th of August, marked Ukraine's 31st Independence Day. We believe this is a reason to celebrate regardless and in spite of the war Russia is waging right now. And it is a good opportunity to remember that freedom and self-determination should never be taken for granted and that our solidarity with Ukraine is equally a solidarity with these fundamental human rights.
00:02:05
Speaker
Fonzie's in first, Kiehl ready, and we are good to go.
Introducing Nick Torshevsky and Ukraine Rebirth
00:02:09
Speaker
So buckle up and sit back, because today we're going to meet Nick and Kief. Hello and welcome to a brand new episode of The Yellow Van Stories. Here with us today is Nick Torshevsky, a Ukrainian film director and producer from Kief, and it's a great pleasure to have you with us today, Nick. Thanks for joining us.
00:02:34
Speaker
Thank you, best. And it's really a pleasure to join you here and thanks for the invitation. I do really appreciate that and the chance to talk about Ukraine, Ukrainian culture and whatever else you may find necessary for your podcast.
00:02:47
Speaker
Thank you so much. That's wonderful. And the more the merrier, it's like we are getting so many perspectives now already in the show, I believe, and that's great. And your perspective is one that I have been looking forward to immensely because of a project that you're doing that we will talk about basically right away. First, I'll just give a quick introduction so that people know what it is that you're doing, and then we'll dive right into it.
00:03:09
Speaker
All right? Okay, perfect. So here it goes. Nick Tochevsky is a film director and producer from Kyiv with over 10 years of experience directing and producing broadcast, TV series, commercials, and feature films. Nick's latest project, Ukraine Rebirth, is putting a focus on the rebuilding of Ukraine after the war. Something that struck me as extraordinary as the war is still raging on without an end in sight. On the website of Ukraine Rebirth, the project is introduced as follows.
00:03:38
Speaker
Our main message within the series, a scene from the title, is to show rebirth. Everyone has fallen and it takes heart and strength to get up and keep going. Ukraine is very strong and now this is noticed by the whole world. Ukrainians are brave, fierce, united and valiant, but also kind, passionate, full of love and hope.
00:03:58
Speaker
In the face of the enemy, we don't just prepare for the last stand, we prepare to win and then to rebuild our country, to rise from the ashes better and stronger than before. We want to capture the spirit which helps Ukrainians keep going and to share it with the world so that this hope and passion will blossom in the hearts of every viewer around the globe.
Challenges and Resilience in Rebuilding Ukraine
00:04:19
Speaker
how exactly the idea for the project was born and how Nick is feeding his seemingly inexhaustible optimism is something we will be discussing in today's show. So thanks for joining us in the elevator today, Nick. We are so excited to have you on board. Like I said, that feeling is mutual.
00:04:38
Speaker
Regarding the endless optimism, you might be very generous for myself because, you know, it's like for a filmmaker, it's not easy and never easy to create something as big as Ukraine at birth because we are talking not just about the ordinary series, but rather an almanac of 15 independent films, which are all of
00:05:02
Speaker
almost of the feature length and I do believe that if the material proves really really engaging we will be going the route of 15 feature films so that's just the tip of an iceberg and you know there are it's highs and lows it's ups and downs and oftentimes I find myself thinking about
00:05:26
Speaker
the money mentality of the task in front and frankly sometimes it does drain a lot of my strength and optimism just thinking about how much more I should be climbing next. So imagine like Mount Everest is in front of me and I have done like I have climbed up for maybe a half a mile
00:05:52
Speaker
And I'm looking up there and I can face shit. Yes, you're basically just out of base camp in a way, right? And then you know that there is so much way to cover. And it's intimidating. Of course it is. I understand that. But I think that's what courage is all about, is to carry on regardless in any way.
00:06:16
Speaker
because you believe that the task at hand is bigger than yourself. And I think that's probably, I'm guessing, I'm drawing this from my own experience a little bit, and therefore it provides you with this little bit of extra strength and courage to take on the task at hand. Would that be also something you could identify with, or is it, in your case, wholly different? Oh, most definitely I can, because, you know,
00:06:44
Speaker
Moving step by step, if something I'm convincing myself to do every day, even if the step is tiny, even if it's like infinite small, I still try to make it and to be proud of it because step by step, I'm still closer to my goal.
00:07:05
Speaker
Of course there will be setbacks, of course there will be step downs, there will be mistakes. It's unavoidable and I understand that and lately I finally became at peace with that.
00:07:19
Speaker
That's wonderful because it's important because we live in a world where perfection seems to be everyone's goal, but I don't think perfection actually exists. The mistakes we make along the way are just making us better, never perfect, but better. And I think this is why we have to appreciate them, just like what you said. And also, I think the analogy with climbing a mountain is very apt as well, because not that I'm a big mountain climber, but whenever I've been on a mountain, like last year we went up to Mount Olympus,
00:07:46
Speaker
you do realize that you don't look at the peak of the mountain, but just really take it step by step. Look right in front of you and make the next step count.
Metaphors of Overcoming Challenges
00:07:56
Speaker
And this is how you get up there, actually. If you just look up at the peak, very often you will just freeze in your footsteps and you're like, I'll never get there.
00:08:04
Speaker
So also just to explain why we're talking about this, because he said 15 feature films, right? That's 15 90 minute films, basically, more or less. I mean, you know, depending on the subject, but around about 90 minutes, it could be a little less, it could be a little more, but that's a feature film length, right? I'll be around it about at like an hour because still the main priority for myself is to produce it as a documentary series, though each episode is independent of
00:08:34
Speaker
other ones, because I do not think that horizontal structure for the series of such topic in Kalibr is truly given due to Ukraine, to Ukrainian fight, to Ukrainian struggles, because the idea is encompassing
00:08:54
Speaker
Every aspect I thought about, I do understand that I might have missed a lot of things to talk about, and some of them definitely intentionally, simply because if we're trying to talk about everything that happens, there is no kind of series that can
00:09:14
Speaker
combine it all. So I just took some of the most hottest so to say topics or those which are the most controversial or those which are the most thought inducing because one of the goals I want to pursue creating the series is to enable the thought process once again and dive into the
00:09:44
Speaker
how you should, how you shouldn't, how you do now, how we do now, how we should be doing it later, based on the example of people who have already made their step into reverse, so to
Mental Health Crisis Amidst Conflict
00:10:02
Speaker
say so.
00:10:02
Speaker
don't mind, I'll give a little bit of an insight to our cave story. Before you if you allow me before you go into the stories, because I know you have a couple of stories already for the for the films, right, which is something I am super excited about and which we are definitely going into and spend a lot of time on that. But before we do that, I would just roll it up from the beginning a little bit. I would first of all, before we really get started,
00:10:28
Speaker
Also because this is part of something that matters to me is really to check in with my guests as well. You're in Kiev, right? Currently as well. So first of my first questions, how are you doing? How is all of this affecting you really on a personal and on a solar level? What is happening in Ukraine at the moment? That's a really interesting question, Bastian, because we're still at war.
00:10:57
Speaker
There is a very relative piece in cave.
00:11:04
Speaker
mainly because Kyiv is now well protected and miles above our previous protection which have been in place like even in the beginning of the year, so we have a lot of things upgraded here and this does make me feel safer than say my peers in
00:11:29
Speaker
Kharkiv in Nipro, the front cities. The situation there is a little bit more dire, obviously. They are being struck by missiles on a daily basis, which is the thing we in Kiev have the luxury to not encounter for like a month already.
00:11:57
Speaker
There is a lot of exhaustion, mental exhaustion still, because while this is natural, this is still a thing. So it's like the beginning of war, the whole country mobilized whoever could do a thing, they went and done that.
00:12:18
Speaker
You may know about the enormous amount of donations the Ukrainians do daily, monthly, weekly, the feats of unity.
00:12:32
Speaker
But everything comes at a cost. So it's like the euphoric, a little bit euphoric beginnings where everyone was united, driven, and kind of put every problem aside because that was the time where we needed to mobilize ourselves. This time is now
00:12:57
Speaker
behind us uh it's simply because the people cannot in general uh keep being euphoric for all time you know it's like uh it is too taxing and uh the normal defensive mechanism of the brain would be to shut it down and to get back to like maybe some sort of seclusion i don't know at least that was like that from myself because i um
00:13:24
Speaker
rotate from the parallel of helping donating repost and working to some sort of seclusion of locking myself in my house and like sitting there recovering and
00:13:44
Speaker
Mental exhaustion, like you said as well, I think, right? Mental exhaustion, do this every day, get up in the morning, check the newsfeed, know what's going on, repost, retweet, mobilize, you know, all of that. Obviously, that's very taxing. So I understand that. And I'm sure that this is the case for a lot of Ukrainians, not just you. I think it's the case for, and it's like you said, it's a human response as well to something like that.
00:14:11
Speaker
Yeah, because you can't simply be mobilized all the time. It is just too taxing. From my experience of talking to psychologists, to my friends who work in this industry, they say that there are a lot of cases of
00:14:34
Speaker
mental health quickly deteriorating mental sicknesses rising very quickly and less unfortunately that's natural in the current state of things because like war is something you never want to see and is something you are never truly ready for unless you specifically trade for that and I can't say for sure that 44 millions of Ukrainians
00:15:01
Speaker
were not overall trained to withstand war. And here I need to make a shout out to armed forces of Ukraine because the guys are the titans. I cannot imagine how they stood when they needed to and how they stand now.
00:15:21
Speaker
But they not only managed to stand and to protect us and to not give up to Russia, but slowly and steadily getting ground back. And for me, it's like, it's insane.
00:15:37
Speaker
Yes, enormous amounts of efforts are being made there. And again, I think what helps not to, which is just a small contribution, and this is not taking away anything from the courage and the incredible efforts of the Ukrainian forces, like you just said, but I just want to point out again as well that it's very important that there's continuing support
00:16:04
Speaker
from the West that we're not forgetting what is happening in Ukraine, but there is a continuing unity in opposing the Russian invasion and it entails, according to me at least, and I know this for a lot of people is a controversial talk, but it also entails sending arms to Ukraine because they also help make a difference in that sense. So I just wanted to put that all together quickly.
00:16:28
Speaker
Yeah, and we do appreciate it in Ukraine and we do know that lately a lot of Russian informational tactical operations have been executed against the West because I do believe you have heard about rumors of people being tired of war, of Western people being tired of war.
00:16:51
Speaker
It's not just rumors by the way. There are also obviously people that are tired and you know some politicians in Germany for instance I know the German political scene a lot better than well American I know a little bit about as well and then some other but the German I know the best and there are people that are asking now to open Nord Stream 2 for instance you know which I think is a detrimental message to the whole conflict but it happens so what you're saying I'm just saying it's not just a rumor it is actually happening
00:17:17
Speaker
Some people are making other calls now than five months ago. Yes. And I absolutely know that Russians are fueling these moods because it's like it's really not beneficial for them at all because of all the sanctions and the weaponry because weaponry is obviously more advanced. The sanctions are obviously taxing the Russian economy to the point of no return.
00:17:46
Speaker
And while I'm no expert in economics myself, I do believe the consequences for Russia are dire and will be even more dire for the time being. Not that I really cared.
00:18:00
Speaker
apologize if I might not be empathetic with Russia, you understand? Oh, I think that that is understandable. Yes, I think it's understandable. Absolutely. Kind of. Yes. So that's their business. And I'll be the more the merrier. That's my approach to sanctions and whatnot. But I also understand that so Western world might be is not interested in prolonging the war anymore. So which is, again, good for us and
00:18:28
Speaker
bad for us, good in the term that they will up their support up until the war ends and they share the similar goal with us for now that Russia must be put back in place. The bad is that there is only so much they can do and there will be a breaking moment. I do hope it won't be before we win and I do believe we will win.
00:18:58
Speaker
But I also know that there is a possibility that one day they will say that our support has been enough. And I only pray that that will not come before we win the war. Yes.
00:19:13
Speaker
And I agree with you entirely and I share that opinion entirely. And I do hope so as well. And part of the reason this podcast season was born was to just, you know, maintain our, well, at least if it's not a focus, I don't think you can expect for everyone to have that as a focus every single day in the whole world, right? They have their own battles to fight and, well, battles to fight is maybe not the best metaphor in this case, but
00:19:40
Speaker
They have their own struggles and they have their own challenges. Of course, they have to go on with their lives as well, but to at least to know that it is going on and to not forget about it entirely and realize that this is actually a question that concerns all of us, not just Ukrainians. And I think that point has to be repeatedly made.
00:19:58
Speaker
Thank you for sharing that, first of all, because this is something I think that is not always a topic of conversation, the taxing efforts on the mental health of people in a war, whether you are at the front or not, just following your own lives.
00:20:16
Speaker
and trying to be supportive of the cause itself, mobilizing, sharing with people, exchanging information, and all of that is very taxing. And no wonder there is also a mental health crisis developing in Ukraine if I follow what you have said and the psychological input that you got from friends of yours. And it's not a surprise at all either. If you look at the pandemic, for instance, how much that did to mental health in a society, then surely more serious than that.
00:20:48
Speaker
So thank you for sharing that because it sheds a little bit of light on really the everyday life as well in Ukraine. And like you said, Ukraine is also very broad brush because there are different areas in Ukraine which are affected by the war in different ways. So also to be clear that there's obviously a contextual difference there as well.
00:21:09
Speaker
I would like to, because obviously this is, we will follow this line of conversation as well in different way through your project, which I think is super, super interesting. I can't wait to talk about that as well. Before we get into that, I would also like to ask you, can you describe your journey into filmmaking a little bit? When
Nick's Filmmaking Journey
00:21:27
Speaker
did you discover filmmaking as the art form where you're like, yes, this is what I want to do. And I want to dedicate at least some parts or a large part of my life to this art form.
00:21:39
Speaker
Yeah, okay, so that's an interesting question. I was never really a fan of doing something desk oriented. So it's like, when my school and approached, I was like, what I want to do, so it's like eight or seventh grade, I was already thinking what I want to do. And I did understand understand that. So
00:22:08
Speaker
that mustn't be something nine to five sitting somewhere i will just dive board them and i'm simply not a person who can sit nine to five on his ass typing something on the keyboard i will go mad so i understand yeah unfortunately sometimes producing is exactly that so you're
00:22:29
Speaker
You can imagine my pain. I second that. I feel your pain. I have the same pain from time to time. Absolutely. I absolutely relate. So yeah, that was the time I was thinking first and foremost, I was thinking maybe about going into international relationships, maybe becoming a diplomat or source because I was
00:22:50
Speaker
a pretty fluent in talking and pretty open and emotional of your normal conversations. So it was natural for me to pursue something where I can talk and build
00:23:02
Speaker
my career based on that. But then I was taking part in a TV show called The Brainiest, the great Britain format of some sort of an intellectual battle, maybe more about general knowledge and wisdom, so some more applicable
00:23:23
Speaker
To fact knowledge, but still it gave me a pretty good perspective of how the television works Both from inside and from outside and I became curious I became going backstage during shootings because a obviously, you know, the big TV projects is a shoot in
00:23:42
Speaker
batches. So there was like my game, I finished that. And when it was at the beginning of another recording, I just went backstage to the producers, to the team. And I was like, okay, so how does it work? Are you interested? No.
00:23:58
Speaker
Yeah. But just to be clear, you were a contestant in the show, right? Yes. You were a contestant as a show. So like a participant and then you got that insight from it. Right. Yes. So yeah. And like, I have been playing the game for like, maybe a little bit less than a decade, so seven years, maybe, or maybe eight, I don't, eight years, kind of. So that was an ongoing TV show. And you were on that TV show for seven, eight years.
00:24:28
Speaker
Yes. All right. In every episode, did you come in on regular intervals or how did it work? No, there was a tournament structure. The structure is like 12 children are a contestant of a single episode.
00:24:51
Speaker
And the three finalists advance to a so-called super final where they battle for the champion's title. And so there were a structure of preliminary games.
00:25:11
Speaker
quarterfinals, so to say, and the finals. So each quarterfinal consisted of four preliminary games. So like three finalists went were promoted and the same went to the super final where the of
00:25:31
Speaker
12 finalists from the quarterfinals were promoted. And then that's it. So it's like a huge amount of games. And I was a player in 21 game. Wow. I have a lot. Hence the amount of time, the time spent that I have spent.
00:25:54
Speaker
playing the game actually. Like somewhere in the middle of it, like on my fourth year there, or no, like on my third year there, the executive producer of Vladimir Davidos Ocelic, who I believe is my guide and a very respected figure by me. I do love him very much because he was the one who came to me and said, listen Nick, I think that you may have a future in filmmaking.
00:26:24
Speaker
What do you think about attending my classes in the university?
00:26:30
Speaker
to, say, take a look and decide whether you like it or not. And I was like, oh, of course. I have lived in Lijan that time. It's like 150 kilometers from caves. So I had to do drives each Saturday for two years when I was in 10th and 11th grade to attend the classes of Vladimir Davidovich. And the more I
00:26:56
Speaker
draw there the more i understood that at least this is something i do like and i'm interested because it is not linear at all it's not the standard sit in your desk and listen education which is frankly
00:27:11
Speaker
has a lot of cons if you do want to develop your mind, not just drawing it out. So I started thinking, okay, so I like it. I have no fucking idea how to do that. And this is good because normally I know how to do things. I did have some sort of intellectual baggage with me that allowed me to
00:27:35
Speaker
say have an insight in a lot of different professions but this wasn't one of them because you know filmmaking wasn't done by your mind at that time so it's more like you know the you know the tools you know the drills but you follow your heart
00:27:53
Speaker
And I was like, okay, so this would be a thing I cannot fathom with this first try. So I'll keep trying and trying and trying. And eventually that's how I got into the, our cave, the State University of Theater and Arts and Television named after Kapka Kari. And oh boy, that was an experience because it wasn't like anything I have ever encountered. All right, so wow, that's,
00:28:22
Speaker
I like how you say that what really attracted you to it and what fueled your passion for it was that you didn't understand it and that you didn't know how to do it. And I think this curiosity and this kind of
00:28:38
Speaker
self-improvement in that sense also I think is something that can be a big driving force as you have just obviously proven in what you said and that's wonderful. And I think that's something also that probably connects also right to Ukraine Rebirth in a way and the mountain that you feel you have to climb
00:28:58
Speaker
right now, sometimes, not knowing how to do it, I think they seem to be, at least when I hear you speak about it now, a little bit connected. So I think this is a good time to maybe dive into the project. Would you give us a little bit of a background of the project? You have already started on it a little earlier, then we just roll back a little bit. Can you just give us a short synopsis of how you envision this project, the project Ukraine Rebirth?
00:29:25
Speaker
And also maybe what gave birth to it in your mind, how you came up with the whole concept. Okay, sure. Let's go back time a little bit to the beginning of war, because that's a really important event. Me and my girlfriend were moving out from Kiev
00:29:47
Speaker
at the very beginning of the wars. It's like at 5 a.m. we woke up and because air alert sirens started... Was this the 24th of February? Like the first day of the invasion, pretty much? The very first, the 24th of February. And I don't believe clearly the sky was really heavy and, you know, the filming is just heavy.
00:30:11
Speaker
It's not simply gray or whatever. It is really heavy. And the sirens started sounding all over the city. And that was the feeling when everything has changed forever. And I did reflect on it a little bit because I didn't want this feeling to remain because this is something dire and something
00:30:40
Speaker
huge and not something you want to happen but something you need to remember and we were driving out of cave the road to the western Ukraine took us 30 hours instead of seven common hours so it's like it was a cluster of facts so to say and i can't find the more censored word i'm sorry
00:31:09
Speaker
No, I think it describes it perfectly, yes. So I haven't yet driven that much in a car as a driver. So it's like, you know, I clearly remember the moment when I understood I am currently driving through the restaurant and waiters are coming around. So imagine the
00:31:36
Speaker
wigwams from Twin Peaks, the setup with this red curtains, this checker for this feeling of eerie and wrongness around you. And I'm driving through that because I'm very sleep deprived, obviously stressed, but I need to keep myself collected because I'm not just responsible for myself, but for my girlfriend and my cat as well.
00:32:01
Speaker
We're driving and I understand that the waiters are passing by and the whole atmosphere is pretty. We've vanished. Shout out to David Lynch obviously. A link to that also.
00:32:15
Speaker
Yeah, so I asked my girlfriend to take the driving wheel for a moment because I needed a nap. I understood that it is really, really harming. So long story short, I came to Columbia and we settled there for a couple of days. And then I was just like, I'm staying here at home. I'm not going outside. I'm not doing anything which requires me to go outside. I'm staying at home. So I needed this.
00:32:44
Speaker
maybe the primal feeling of safety in the cave. So I caved in and I was like, no, I'm not going outside. And then naturally I understood that this is not normal and not healthy at all. And something started to
00:33:02
Speaker
So I needed a way to let these emotions go out. I started thinking a lot about the future and how it should shape and how it will be. And I understood that this was a question for everyone, not just for myself, because
00:33:20
Speaker
the very first days of war there were no certainty, no understanding how the war will unfold because you know that I live in the center of game and when I am sent the videos of gunfight near my house I understand that this may be even more dire than we feared and
00:33:47
Speaker
One day I just sat down and thought, I need to make a project about that. I'm not the only one. I do believe that almost every filmmaker decided to make a documentary. So then I went back to the important questions for me. These were, first of all, how will we get back from it? Because I know that it doesn't matter how much time you follow. It does matter how much time you stand up.
00:34:16
Speaker
So I did understand that this is a downfall. No matter how dire the situation is, we will still need to get up. The Ukraine, the whole, the people themselves and myself, of course, I also needed to find a way to stand up because I just didn't want to imagine what would happen if I don't.
00:34:42
Speaker
And I started writing the initial ideas first in a very broad formulations, I believe. I started talking to people. I started pitching my idea to them to initiate that kind of ping pong
00:35:02
Speaker
regarding the idea to understand how it is received. We were brainstorming. Yes. And then I thought, okay, so I'm not the only one to produce a documentary and there will be a lot of people quicker than me and more available than me and they will have their share of
00:35:25
Speaker
I don't know, fame is not the good word, but their share of viewers, their share of audience. So I needed to create something standing out. And I thought, okay, so now we are all in a fair war. People are shooting footage, are shooting videos, and this will be very important and still is, but this will become dated.
00:35:52
Speaker
Because we cannot live in trauma forever. And it's news. What you are describing now is also news, not that everybody is producing news, but a lot of the content that is shot is for news and news become outdated. But if you have stories that overarch more than just the day to day, but a time span of much longer, then you have something that can last, I think. So this is a perfect explanation from you. Yeah.
00:36:19
Speaker
completely agree, yes.
Creating a Documentary on Ukraine's Diversity
00:36:21
Speaker
And so the first postulate came that this should last for a long, this should last for a long time. And I started to like follow this thread further and further and then wailing more and more for myself until I created a very first pitch nest and came to my friends in Dubai, I called them and like pitch them the project. And they told me,
00:36:47
Speaker
okay, great, we'll help you. Let's make a website of it. And let's think of how we can move it. And that gave me an impulse to act. Because one thing is to prevent an idea and of course, every filmmaker believes in his idea, no matter how shitty it is. I do know from my own experience, the ideas can be really fucking shitty.
00:37:12
Speaker
Yeah, I think we've all had shit ideas. Let's agree on that. And that's okay. And that's okay as well. And that's okay. Yeah. Either way, if you don't train, you will not produce something good. So I lost the idea around and I saw that it
00:37:32
Speaker
extracts the response, the emotional response from people. They did find their own things and that's how I approached all the great guys who are now a part of the team.
00:37:46
Speaker
because everyone had the emotional response. Everyone had the questions they deemed important, and they brought it with themselves, bringing a unique perspective. And that's how I thought about this. This project should be done by different filmmakers. Every episode should be different, because every episode should be an expression of someone's own emotions, someone's own trauma.
00:38:13
Speaker
So it's like not the canonical documentary where you just follow and decide for yourself. I don't want it to be a canonical documentary. Like this is the tale of what we endured to stand back up. And each one of us have endured his own story or her own story or their own story. And I think that's a very, very valuable input.
00:38:42
Speaker
So laying the foundation like that, we did prepare the website, we did prepare the pitch deck. I did approach a lot of people whom I wanted to be a part of a team because I knew for sure they had a unique and very deep perspective of a certain topic. For example, we do have a her son based team, not her son based, her son born, director and
00:39:10
Speaker
director of photography and they are making an episode about her son and you know when they tell me like
00:39:18
Speaker
You know, it's fine. Mother says it's fine. It's just that there are snipers in front of her window and it's my lens settling and I'm listening and I'm feeling the depth of its hidden pain and the horror of this. And I was like, okay, how can I help, obviously?
00:39:47
Speaker
because it wasn't like, oh, so you struggle. And I do have a project here. I am still a producer with morals for now. Maybe I'm just too young as a producer. I don't know. But anyway, it started clicking and the story started to appear and the story started to unveil. And that brings me to where we are now. We are currently launching the first episode
00:40:16
Speaker
via Kickstarter, we are going to producers and investors all over the world to get funding. Obviously, we should be the most interesting part of the filmmaking and die as a producer and going a little bit crazy with that. But still, this is a journey. And like, you know, we have made 100 steps, we still need to make 1,000 more, but one step a day.
00:40:44
Speaker
Absolutely. What's really great about this is that, first of all, you are offering a multitude of perspectives. I think this is so important because I believe everything, every piece of information has always to be embedded in context.
00:41:05
Speaker
Context reality I think is very very important and you can have an abundance of context reality especially if you offer a multitude of perspectives. So this is what fascinates me about this project to say I'm not shooting all of this, I'm not creating all the content, no rather I will take
00:41:24
Speaker
the views and perspectives of local people and let allow them with the funding and an input and a bigger framework to tell their own story. I think this is something that's great. Therefore, it'll be rich in detail and very colorful as well.
00:41:40
Speaker
Um, so that's, that's, that's fantastic. I believe that's great. And what you also said is, and this is something I relate to as well. You said to get up again, right? Getting up is an action. It's something that you do. So, um, in order to get up, you have to do something.
00:41:57
Speaker
And this is exactly what you are doing. You were, like you said, when you were caved in and you didn't want to leave the house, which is something that is absolutely understandable when something of that magnitude happens. But then to get up again and to focus on what can I actually bring to the table? What can I do? What do I want to do?
00:42:14
Speaker
you very often fall back on the trades you have learned, right? There's something that you have spent a lot of time with where you feel there can be a benefit and this is exactly what you've done. I relate to that because in a way, this podcast has a similar motivation, right? I was just so, I felt so at loss of anything when the 24th of February had arrived and I didn't know what to do, like this changing of the world, this changing of the perspective.
00:42:42
Speaker
that you have also described. I had to put something in its place, right? I had to do something after I had done my mourning of the state of the world, like I'm sure you have done. And so just to say that I can absolutely relate to this, and I have the advantage that I can do it from the luxury of my home where I am not surrounded by war, right? Where I can look at it from a distance, which is obviously a great luxury to have.
00:43:08
Speaker
So this is what also drew my attention to this project, amazing
Stories of Hope and Resilience
00:43:13
Speaker
project. So now that we've established that, and I love your project, and that you've given us the introduction, you said already you have some stories to tell, right? I would very much like to hear some of the stories, like Gerson, for instance, I think, if I'm not mistaken, very often I make the mistake between Gerson and Kharkiv. Still, I'm trying to get better at that, but Gerson was occupied, right? For some time by the Russians, wasn't it?
00:43:38
Speaker
But now it is liberated again, or is it still occupied now? I think that it's liberation is a work in progress, so to speak. Okay, okay. Armored forces know what they're doing, and I'm by no means a military expert, and I am not really the guy who will tell that he is when he's not.
00:44:01
Speaker
What I know is there are plans and steps to liberate it and I trust the armed forces to execute them perfectly because right up to now they have done what they can do and they did great. So I believe in them and I believe that everything will be going as the plan and they do have contingencies and they do have
00:44:26
Speaker
plans, like I said, yeah. And the more we are backed by the West, the better everything will be. I believe that too. Yes. It's always, I believe stronger together is definitely something that holds true.
00:44:42
Speaker
And therefore, which is so important to have a unity there. So like, so now, let's get into the stories a little bit. So do you have the story from her from her son because we've been on the topic already? Is there is there already something a story in her son that you have that is in progress or that is something to consider?
00:45:08
Speaker
Kind of. But let me start from the different story. Of course. The key story is what I deem as the quintessence of the reverse, which I
00:45:26
Speaker
want to see in every episode because see they are not similar they don't follow the same heroes but they do follow the same topic of Roberto help and the caveman story is exactly about that there is a story which might have looked ordinary for people in ukraine now because it's the story of volunteer who does some bi-weekly
00:45:51
Speaker
Excursions to the west to bring some cars for Ukrainian needs, not just military, but a lot of means you understand. And this is all great and might look ordinary, if not for the fact that the person is disabled and he cannot walk at himself at all. The only thing he can do is move his feet a little bit up and down. This is enough to press the pedals in the car.
00:46:18
Speaker
And so he has been in this state for a couple of years because of COVID, which had his prosthetics in the legs, so in the knees. So he lost his ability to move around and the operation to replace is really, really expensive. It's like $50,000.
00:46:42
Speaker
As he stood, he just couldn't afford that and for a couple of years he was just
00:46:49
Speaker
Playing there doing this and that is not actually, I don't know whether it's really a good life or not. He could decide for himself, but it is more of an existence. More challenge. He had prosthetics before that were working, right? If I understand that correctly.
00:47:10
Speaker
Destroy them so the important thing is that when the war started the hero. He just kind of cold his friends and said okay i'm done lying here being useless.
00:47:26
Speaker
Let me know what I can do. Or better yet, carry me to the car. I can't drive. I just can't walk to that car, but I can drive. And that's how it works. He's being helped to the car by his friends and he sits there and drives because he's a good driver still.
00:47:45
Speaker
gets a lot of humanitarian aid and vehicles for Ukrainian needs. And for me, it's a story of rebirth itself, because when the time came, he chose not to keep existing. He chose to act. And this, I think, is a great rebirth. So metaphorically speaking, he got up and started walking again. And
00:48:11
Speaker
I do really really want to secure funding for the episodes so that we can end the story on a happy note and give him back the ability to walk again. So I think that would be the quintessence of what I want to see because you know he has already made the step. He has already stood up and he has already said
00:48:36
Speaker
no more and I will do this and I will do I will keep going I will not just give up and lay down and this is really really really important for me and I want to show to the world that there are people who are immensely strong there are people who have
00:49:01
Speaker
both the potential for birth and the capabilities to do that. So all we need is a little bit of faith. And Dennis is his name, I think you said, right? Yeah. Yes. So is he still driving? Is he still now to this day making vision runs? And that is amazing. He's relentless.
00:49:26
Speaker
It seems that way. Amazing. Amazing. Yes, it is amazing. You know, I do believe I'm at this point in my life right now where I realize it is incredibly easy to become a cynicism in our world, right? You see so much stuff going on every day, whether it's war, whether it's climate crisis, it's so easy to become entangled in that and to become a cynic.
00:49:52
Speaker
And I am at this point where I really consciously try to find the good stories. And I think the more I do that, I realize if we look in broad perspectives, like politically, and try to look at something with a very big picture, so to speak, then there's a lot of reason to be a cynic. But if we zoom in on things that are happening,
00:50:16
Speaker
on the everyday lives of people, individuals, and what they do, and sometimes the stories you find there, this is inspiring. And there is so much love to be found. And so for me, it is really very often a question now of not just looking at the broad picture, like, you know, the broad politics of things, but to really zoom in
00:50:39
Speaker
on the individual level and see what's happening there, what's going on there. And there's a lot of goodness to be found there. And this is exactly where your project, Ukraine Rebirth, is also going exactly down that route. Instead of showing the big picture and the terrible
00:50:59
Speaker
war events, you are actually zooming in as well. You're going down to the individual level and you're showing the people that we can all look to inspire us to make the changes that we deem necessary. And that's wonderful. So hats off to that too. Dennis, first of all, but also to identifying those stories and telling them. Having said that, is there another story you are currently working on and developing?
00:51:28
Speaker
Yes, as a matter of fact, we're working on five stories for
LGBTQ+ Community's Struggles and Progress
00:51:32
Speaker
now. I believe those would be the season one of Ukraine Rebirth for now. So I'll get to all of them shortly. But second story is a very important story as well. And this is a story that we are currently planning to launch to Kickstarter in a couple of weeks to start funding at least the initial stage of production.
00:51:58
Speaker
and this is the question of lgbtq plus people during war in ukraine so oh yes our logline is that ukraine will be free free of prejudice as well there this is our i think this is the most developed story for now because we did a lot of development work on it and you know
00:52:25
Speaker
War makes everybody endangered here, but there are just some people who are in even bigger danger. I had an option to flee to Western Ukraine and to be easily accepted to not be
00:52:46
Speaker
uh like uh i don't i don't know conscripted to the army no uh conscription is not something that we are all afraid i believe because the if the time comes we will stand up and go and protect when we are conscripted so i believe that this is a possibility it may be unavoidable and i'm not the one who will
00:53:14
Speaker
avoid that because as afraid as I am, I do understand there are some things that matter more in the life than simple fear and whatever else.
00:53:29
Speaker
Getting back to the episode topic, and there are people from LGBTQ plus community who are not that really accepted in a society, Ukrainian society for now, because there is a lot of work done on educating people. There is still a lot of people who are believing either that LGBT plus is a sin or a crime or whatever else, you know, all the sorts of, um,
00:54:00
Speaker
all the sorts of separation and creating like an outcast of them. And I do believe that this is a very wrong approach, simply because there are stories that we have unveiled. And for example, the story of the first person story is a story of a couple in LGBTQ plus couple that
00:54:25
Speaker
The one guy is currently in the front lines and the second one waits for him in a cave and they are really waiting for their time to get engaged because you see there is a neat cave-in in the law which said that during war times the military commander has the right to make legal marriages.
00:54:54
Speaker
For now, LGBTQ plus marriages in Ukraine are not legal yet, although there is a petition created for our president to make this legal because it's like
00:55:10
Speaker
simply an unevenness of rights because there are two people who love each other and the one can die and the second one would even not have a right to bury him and to
00:55:27
Speaker
Also hospitals, if he's injured, just the right to visit and to get all the information. And of course, it's a privilege that they cannot enjoy because of biases in society.
00:55:42
Speaker
Yes. And as far as I know, and this is a little spoiler, I guess I won't go very deeply in details, but we do know that such marriages have already happened in the military, a couple of them, which makes them the very first legal marriages of LGBTQ plus couples on Ukrainian soil.
00:56:05
Speaker
And I do think this is an immense step forward to a democratic and free society, which we are desperately trying to build here, while at the same time telling Russia to fuck off and die there with their authoritarian approach. We don't want the Soviet Union, we don't want the
00:56:26
Speaker
police state, we want a democratic and free society and we are taking steps to that. And that's an inspiring part of this is a bigger story. It is not centered on just one person or just one story. There are rather several sub episodes. There are the second one being a story of a trans woman who is currently in the state of transformation, so to say. She's walking that path.
00:56:54
Speaker
And the victory there is that she has been allowed to be conscripted into armed forces of Ukraine as a woman who she's identifying as though she's not there yet biologically. But this is a big step in human rights and acceptance because if you're accepted even in armed forces as
00:57:17
Speaker
a person who you are identifying yourself this is huge this is something for example which is. Unbelievable in russia and in belarus and they are neighboring countries they were part of soviet union like us but just look at the.
00:57:37
Speaker
humanity gap between them and us here. And I'm really, really proud that there are occasions like that. There is also a story of the
00:57:52
Speaker
So that was a transgender story. I told the trans story, but I'm sorry, I was a little bit mistaken in my words. So we also have a trans person serving in the armed forces of Ukraine and also this is really beneficial for him and the forces as well. So this is great. And all, but you know,
00:58:21
Speaker
It is not as good as I want it to be yet. Because at the same time, we have a lot of brilliant examples of how our society should be approaching the LGBTQ plus community as a pillar of society, as a
00:58:41
Speaker
very important pillar of society as the people who have their rights and the human rights, so to say so. I do not think that they have to be denied simply because you don't love women and you love men if you are a man yourself. This is crazy and I don't at all support the dogmatic views. I do want everyone to have equal rights no matter their self-identification, their
00:59:11
Speaker
love interests, whatever your name. I believe that's a very basic right and the conversation should be raised as such. But we also know that... And only then will it be truly democratic also.
00:59:26
Speaker
Yes, this is a road. We are walking, so like a yellow brick road. We are walking to a wise windwind. But there are, if we are continuing the Wizard of Oz, a metamorphic perilous, there are witches, there are evil witches, and there are places where LGBTQ plus people hide during war, because some of them obviously flee to the Western Ukraine, along with a lot of other people.
00:59:54
Speaker
What we also found out that there are hunts. They are being hunted by bigots and hateful people. And these hunts are even dubbed the safaris, so to say.
01:00:17
Speaker
Where is this? In Western Ukraine as well? Or where does this happen? Yeah, because like I said, not everyone of our society is ready to accept
01:00:32
Speaker
the LGBT community into their ranks, which is more of a Russian way to live, I think. But we need to raise this question as well, because we want to build a safe and free society, and this is the idea and goal I wholeheartedly back, and I will do all I can to support it in the ways I can.
01:00:55
Speaker
But we cannot just be silent, where we see such outrageous things. So it's like, imagine yourself being a refugee, and imagine yourself being a person who desperately needs protection, and in terms of LGBT people, they always need a little bit of protection here, because it's not law-regulated, and therefore,
01:01:23
Speaker
They can't really claim some sort of the advanced law protection, because of a lot of the biggest in the country. And imagine you come to a safe place, you've just fled, say, Marjupal, or Bizne, or Izum, or any city which is currently erased from the face of Earth.
01:01:49
Speaker
And imagine you finding that momentary respite, and the very next day you are being hunted. You are being hunted simply because of who you are. You might have noticed, yeah, that's how I did sour beep, because
01:02:10
Speaker
It is really difficult for me to imagine that these things exist and yet one should not be afraid of facing them and speaking about them because we do sure ago building a democratic society and this is not simply acceptable and we will talk about this as well. Because safety for Ukrainians does mean safety for all Ukrainians.
01:02:35
Speaker
It doesn't mean that, hey, you are gay, you are less safe, because I want you to suffer more simply because you love another man. No matter, this is consensual, no matter that everything is done within the law, there are people who will let their hate boil out. And we also need to talk about that.
01:02:59
Speaker
I understand. You have to make it visible, I believe, right? I think this is what needs to be done, like to make these things visible. And because I do believe, and this is something I thought of yesterday, is in order to do good, you have to imagine cruelty. And because if you don't, goodness becomes dogmatic, right? And I think this is why you have to show these things. You have to make them visible, to show that they exist.
01:03:26
Speaker
so that they don't get away with it and that there can be a majority positioned against it. And this is important.
01:03:35
Speaker
And just quickly, what I want to add to the LGBTQI plus community is, you know, we are depriving ourselves also of people that are some that can bring so much to society because of you believe people that throughout their lives have been met with bias, prejudice and discrimination a lot of the times.
01:03:57
Speaker
and upheld their identity, nonetheless, against all the odds and everything that was standing in their way to do it, and everybody telling them what you are feeling is not right, it's not adequate, it's not how we do it, it's not what we like. And they stand by that, by themselves regardless. I think this creates very strong
01:04:15
Speaker
personalities with a lot of integrity and to cast them aside is one of the biggest mistake you can make in any society rather than that. We should look up to them and see what we can learn from them. This is my real deep inner conviction. So that's why I think you have, it's great that you are telling these stories and making that visible, but I interrupted you. Please continue now. I just had to get that off my chest.
01:04:39
Speaker
Yeah i will hardly second what you are talking about because this takes an immense amount of courage to be hated and yet to stand up and like and yourself yes i am.
01:04:54
Speaker
ready to accept that you hate me, but I still stand as myself nonetheless. So it's like a different level of courage and I deeply admire that courage. I understand how hard it is. I understand that
01:05:10
Speaker
what that means because for some people that means renouncing their family ties, their common circle, so it's like there is a lot of baggage hiding behind the back of a person who decided to come out as an LGBT person and there is a lot of damage which can be done immediately to them while they're vulnerable so kudos to their bravery and
01:05:40
Speaker
to dial down what I've said. We need to show the low points for our society as well. Because, you know, if there are no shadows, how do you know what is the light? Guess so.
01:05:56
Speaker
Absolutely. We need to show these shadowy places. We need to show that there are things that just simply shouldn't be in a modern society which we are desperate to build, which is definitely not Soviet Union style.
01:06:16
Speaker
So we will talk about this as well, about these safaris, about this hate, the chases, the prejudice. And I hope that in some years we can make some betterments in the perspective of the society altogether. We are also planning to contribute to the petition to talk with the
01:06:45
Speaker
government about that about some legislative moments so there is a lot of work to be done and the majority of this work is like behind the scenes so to say to make the project happen but ultimately I believe in the goal of this episode as well as I do with all the episode I do I'm sure this is noble and I'm sure this is right and you know like when you are sure you are right you do have this
01:07:14
Speaker
drive to quit. And that also fuels my faith in the project altogether, because I believe a lot of the stories, I believe in their cause, and I'm ready to champion it, no matter
01:07:30
Speaker
it takes and this makes every step to that mount Everest a little bit easier because I know we can get there and I know we can change a lot delivering these messages. So the only thing that remains is to make these messages and deliver them.
01:07:50
Speaker
And like you said, you know, there's a lot to be built, I mean, in any society, right? I happen to have grown up in German society, you know, which is quite liberal in the democratic society. And we've had democracy ever since the Second World War, thank God.
01:08:09
Speaker
which is a great blessing. And nonetheless, there are still things that we need to do that need improvement. It is an ongoing process. I don't think it is something that will ever be complete. It is a constant reshaping of ideas. I think this is what society really is about. So what you just said, what you are doing is you're making these things visible and only by making them visible can you have the conversation that needs to take place to change them.
01:08:38
Speaker
So this is your contribution. And it's very important, according to me. And it's great that you are doing it. And it's also great that you're speaking about it with such openness. Because at times like these, I also understand you want to focus on the strong points, on what is good, what needs to be preserved, why you have to oppose Russia. It is a lot more difficult to say, look, this isn't going right. This is difficult. This is what we need to improve. There are safaris and hunts for LGBTQI+.
01:09:07
Speaker
community members that are happening right now and this is unacceptable to me. So for you to make that, you know, to combine this and make this a holistic approach in that sense is challenging and I recognize that and well done and keep that up. That's great. That's really great. I think you're making a very important contribution. That's my conviction. I appreciate that.
01:09:37
Speaker
Sure, of course. I hope you hear that all the time. If not, then it was bloody time that somebody said that. Thinking about the project, in the beginning and in my opening, my little introduction, I said, you're a seemingly inexhaustible optimism. You've played it down a little bit and you said, yeah, but of course, I don't just have optimism.
01:10:04
Speaker
I face the darkness every now and then as well, like everybody else. But nonetheless, your whole project is rooted in a basic optimism for you to see this crisis also as an opportunity.
01:10:20
Speaker
which again ties in with the birth of this podcast as well because it started with the pandemic and I was contemplating how this terrible pandemic maybe can also be seen as an opportunity for us to maybe change the way we think about certain things. So you're doing the same so there is an underlying optimism and how do you feed it? How do you feed that optimism? Do you have anything that feeds it like also consciously or you just have it? It's just there.
01:10:52
Speaker
You know, a little bit of both actually, because a lot of people tell me that I'm very optimistic by nature, because I always try to look and find something good, something light, something hearty to build upon, to maybe see, to notice when the person notice. I do try to help psychologically to my friends as well.
01:11:21
Speaker
So I guess some of this is natural for me.
01:11:26
Speaker
Some of this is natural and some of this I'm trying to find in others as well. So it's like, you know, the more people is around you, the more you can learn from them, either by adopting their good sides or pros or maybe avoiding the cons of whatever your name. So it's like an old Jewish saying, it's like learn on others mistakes.
01:11:57
Speaker
And help others, adding for myself. And your own as well, hopefully. Your own mistakes as well. And my own as well. Yeah, it's not like I haven't really fucked up during my life. Who hasn't, Nick? Who hasn't, Nick? It's good that we all do. Just some admit to it more than others, I believe. I think that's the only difference. But yes, I think more and more.
01:12:19
Speaker
I'm fine with that. Everyone does it, I do it, all of us can do it, and that's really no big thing, because it's kind of huge in the moment, because like, oh no, how could I? And then you just sit down, okay, yeah, it works. Let's just not do that again, because that's frankly embarrassing and whatever else. Yes.
01:12:49
Speaker
And I've done it now, so I do it again, you know, basically. Yeah, yeah. Checklist done. Okay, let's not get back to this now. And this is something I need to bring with myself, even in this project, and now we return back to the hair sound and its topic in the episode, because hair sound is all about
Psychological Impact of Occupation
01:13:17
Speaker
hope, but also losing that hope. This is a process of losing hope during occupation. You see the lot of stories from the Second World War, which was the last major war, I believe, before they spawned at least the last war with a lot of
01:13:38
Speaker
even the ideological conflicts engaging. By no means do I want to downplay Israel and its struggles as well, but we're talking Ukraine now, so the ideological conflict between East and West, so to say, and now we have her son in an occupation. And there are people who are just like us, they want to live in the democratic society, they want to live in the
01:14:08
Speaker
free world they want to live in Ukraine and her son and you know it's like it's easier for me to not lose my optimism because I'm in Kyiv and I'm well protected and it's a whole different story in her son when which is being policed by Russians every day so say imagine you are a person who have an eagle tattoo so to say not the German eagle not the Nazi eagle
01:14:37
Speaker
And I do hope these Germans won't take offense for that because they don't mean to compare the modern Germany to the Nazi one. No offense taken whatsoever. None of it whatsoever. Thank you. I do mean the common eagle with spread wings. You know that with these two, you cannot be caught in her son and therefore you cannot live not even a trace of normal life because you will be executed as a Nazi.
01:15:05
Speaker
which is the cornerstone of Russian propaganda. They paint Ukrainians as Nazis and they lie every day about our country being the bastion of Nazism, which is obviously untrue because like, you know, it's the reverse, actually.
01:15:33
Speaker
But people lose hope, which is natural and I by no means want to shame people in Karasom for it and no, no, never. And I would want to encourage them to know that Ukraine remembers them and we
01:15:53
Speaker
work to liberate her son, but still the time passes and I understand people who are breaking because we're not made of iron, we're not made of diamond and people can break, this is natural. Previously I mentioned the increasing case of mental health problems in Ukraine at all.
01:16:15
Speaker
I think that can be multiplied up to 10 times and occupied territories. Because once your life was like this and all of a sudden the war camps and your city is being occupied and you are being persecuted simply because you are Ukrainian and not Russian and therefore you are president of a second rank.
01:16:44
Speaker
because the Russians positioned themselves as a superior race, rings well, doesn't it? Yes. It does, unfortunately, yes. And as a German, I'm all too familiar with that, unfortunately, as well, yes. Of course. As a Jewish, I can double down on this. Yes. And we talk with our heroes and our five heroes there, including the city itself and its transformations.
01:17:11
Speaker
And there are people who say one of our heroes was and still is a helper to her sonians, but the time came and he faced a very interesting dilemma, which is either you go to the occupied Crimea, which Russians claim as part of their own territory,
01:17:38
Speaker
And risk the label of a collaborator. But on the other side, you bring some medicine, which is integral and vital for personians right now. So this is a very difficult choice. Like people at home don't know.
01:17:59
Speaker
Yes, so you trade your reputation, maybe your owner, your feeling of what's good and what's not. You trade that so that, say, your friend or your neighbor can live another day because she needs or he needs that medicine.
01:18:21
Speaker
And this is a very, very huge choice, which definitely takes its toll on you. And you make it because obviously, as a person, as a volunteer who helps people, you understand that it's not about you and it was never about you, it's about everyone. And you make the choice and you go there and you start working with
01:18:47
Speaker
You start bringing meds in, you help people. Slowly this settles in your mind. You understand that you can work with people there, because at the end of the day, the war is waged by people, not by Putin himself, with people. And people come with different approaches. There are stupid people, hateful people, but there are also smart people.
01:19:16
Speaker
who know where to push and how to brake. And you don't notice that, but suddenly you start listening. And the words these people say, they suddenly, slowly, they start making more sense. They are talking about settle down. Don't worry, we are here to stay.
01:19:42
Speaker
We will help you. That it might even give you some medicine, some food, which the people who you are responsible for desperately require. And you agree, and you listen, and you accept these gifts. And all of a sudden, you just don't think like you did anymore. So, and your hope dies. Because you accept that this is not Ukraine now.
01:20:13
Speaker
And this is the journey which is very traumatic. And this is a journey which is insane, not the right word, but it is really painful to understand that these choices and these situations even exist yet in like some hundreds of kilometers near myself, but yet still they are.
01:20:44
Speaker
And then you start thinking other ways, start thinking that if the Russians are here to stay and they are here still, and there are some explosions, but the Russians are still here, so maybe we have been abandoned, maybe we have been forgotten, and maybe we are not worth fighting for. And this is the thought which is poisoning your mind slowly,
01:21:10
Speaker
gently, sometimes unnoticeably, but it is poisoning you. And that is the breaking point. So it's like, you really love your country, you really love your people. And you still do. But you're working with Russians now, and you're accepting that
01:21:34
Speaker
And you are thinking that this is the way to live. And you are believing in it. And that is the horror of it. You start believing in it because you convinced yourself with the help of some smart people from Russia that this is the way.
01:21:52
Speaker
I think you always prioritize your own survival, right? I think this is also the bottom line of that. Like the abstract idea of a country will soon fall apart when you are confronted with your own survival. And I think really, I think everybody would make the same choice there. It's not like, I mean, obviously this comes in different shades of gray as well, but I think generally if it comes to your own survival, this is,
01:22:21
Speaker
History has proven that this instinct is very strong in humanity. And if you have that choice and you've painted that picture so well, it really basically comes down to that. Your own survival to the abstract of idea of love of country and countrymen.
01:22:41
Speaker
It is a very, very, very dire choice to face, a very dire choice to face. And I would actually like to, because we were talking about Gerson, but I also read, or I read the boarding school, no, The Orphanage, sorry, The Orphanage by Zadhi Zahan, which is a great book, I believe. Are you familiar with it, the book? I believe I haven't read it yet.
01:23:06
Speaker
Um, it's, it's basically about, um, a guy that it's not entirely clear where it is, but it's either, um, don't yet score Lou Hans gets in one of the occupied areas that have been war torn ever since 2014. It's about a guy that goes.
01:23:23
Speaker
into one of the war ravaged parts of his area to get his nephew out of an orphanage, a boarding school, if you will, in the German translation, which I read. And it's that journey there and back, basically, and what he faces and the dangers, the coldness, all of that.
01:23:45
Speaker
And when I read that, I also realized about those areas. Basically, they are the forgotten areas. Nobody really wants them. Is that true? Actually, I want to know from your side if you would agree with that. The Ukrainians are kind of glad that they're not with Ukraine anymore because they have been leaning towards Russian a lot anyway. The Russians just see them as a territory to
01:24:11
Speaker
progress further into Ukraine and the people there really are actually forgotten and traumatized by everything there is more than anything else because nobody really wants them. Would you say that my perception of that is correct or is it a little too one-sided, a little too black and white?
01:24:33
Speaker
I believe, yes, it is a little bit more contrasted from your perspective, because there are really a lot of shades of rain in the occupied territories. And there are, like I said, there are choices which you must not be doing at all. You mustn't be facing these choices altogether.
01:25:01
Speaker
So no, so I do agree that survival comes first, no matter what, because that's how we work. It's an instinct. So the reptilian brain. Yes, exactly. Yeah, that's that big scene when you stop the ability to think or to believe, which the ability to believe to have faith is an integral ability, but it is
01:25:29
Speaker
We can do only so much because there is a breaking point when we stop believing. And while we still care about survival and about how to live another day, he slowly loses the ability to believe. And that's why I call the death of the soul. Like your soul dies when you stop believing in whatever.
01:26:00
Speaker
And the dire and the tragedy of her son and the absolutely beautiful idea put in there by our great team, by Yulia Tribrath, the director, and by Lanayir Makova, the screenwriter of the episode. And this is heavy.
01:26:26
Speaker
this is difficult and that's why it should be told as well, because when a soul dies, the person, you know, the Harry Potter style, the Dementors and how they do a Dementors kiss and they suck out your soul and the person doesn't like feel anything more. So I believe that this is the case with occupied cities right now. There are a lot of Dementors and
01:26:55
Speaker
Day by day, the Kispert people are increasing in numbers. It is not their fault at all. But this is what happens. So it's like there are more and more people whose soul has been sucked out, flushed, whatever you want to. And this is a story we will be telling about her song, the story about the soul and how it can be killed, unfortunately.
01:27:24
Speaker
Because I'm not a religious person myself, so I do not believe in God or in Ehoa or in Buddha or in Mohammed, and I deeply respect people who do, so I just don't. I have my own beliefs in myself, maybe in other people that is as good as religion, but
01:27:50
Speaker
Religion people do have the necessary metaphors to envision what's happening. So it's like when the soul dies and you lose faith, you can easily understand that this is the point where you start thinking that God has abandoned you forever and he's not coming back. So, and this is a very, very dark place where
01:28:19
Speaker
The situation I would never wish for humanity to happen at all. But still, here we are and it happens. And there are demanders everywhere. So yeah, like you see, there will be inspiring stories and there will be stories about rebirth and standing up, but there also will be stories of falling down because
01:28:49
Speaker
You can't stand up until we have fallen. I do believe, I want to just add to what you said. I do believe that, yes, I do believe that, well, I would put it differently, not at all contradicting you, but I obviously have my own set of beliefs in that sense as well. I wouldn't say that.
01:29:12
Speaker
I would say somebody can lose their soul out of sight, or not be in harmony with their soul, so there can be a detachment as that, certainly, especially in the situation that you've just described.
01:29:30
Speaker
But because I want to keep the hope in what we have had all this time and the optimism as well, I do believe that it's never too late to reattach to it, though, either, even if you find yourself in a situation like that. And that to me is also a sense of optimism. But obviously,
01:29:52
Speaker
very often this will depend on outer circumstances and not on yourself, even though I do believe as well that we are very strong and we can change our circumstances just by believing in things in a different way. I do believe that I'm not saying that I'm doing that. I'm
01:30:08
Speaker
God knows I try every day, but I sometimes fail fuck up big time like we already admitted earlier and Sometimes I am a little better at that, but I do believe that this is the power that Has been invested in us. Anyway, this is now it's
01:30:23
Speaker
talking about obviously like also very abstract things again as well and and I think like like I said earlier you know the power of inspiration lies very often to me at least now to move away from abstraction abstraction of ideas to actually hands-on experiential knowledge like observing goodness in others when you zoom in and focus on people that have a story to tell and share.
01:30:48
Speaker
Would you like to add something to that? Because there was a whole mouthful that I just said there as well. Kind of. I agree with what you've said because there is still maintaining metaphors. There is a precedent of such things happening.
01:31:09
Speaker
And there is a whole mythology built around the finding the Holy Grail, which is, I think, a very appropriate metaphor because, you know, the wandering knight, some sort of Lancelot or whatever else, possible, I think, or whoever. Well, they were all wandering around, I think, at some point. They were wandering around.
01:31:32
Speaker
That's where the quest was born. And I do believe it's the quest of finding the Holy Grail. It's the quest of reattaching the soul, boring your term for that. And it is entirely possible, and there will be people who are willing to help and ready to help. Like I say, we have not forgotten her son. We have not forgotten any occupied city right now. We're doing our best to get back there and help people.
01:32:00
Speaker
because it still takes time, but Ukraine, armed forces of Ukraine and every Ukrainian citizen is talking for that. And so I do believe that the reverse process is absolutely possible. And I do hope that it will happen. And in next seasons, we will do a story about finding this hope in you.
01:32:24
Speaker
because you know what I also find so good though that you brought this up is that
01:32:30
Speaker
You know, there will be a lot of that when we look at Ukraine and when it, you know, at some point, because I do believe there won't be any other way when it has its territorial integrity again.
Reintegrating Occupied Territories
01:32:43
Speaker
And I do believe my optimism tells me that has to be the case and it will happen. The only question is when. That there will be a lot of these questions. You know, why did you collaborate with the Russians? There will be a lot of
01:32:57
Speaker
There will be a lot of division in Ukraine, I think, that has to be faced in that sense as well. And what you are doing right now is so important because you are painting the picture from their perspective. Why are they doing it? What is their motivation? You're giving context. Also something we said earlier, you know, contextuality is so important. You're giving a context so that people cannot just easily say black and white. You collaborated with the Russians. So I don't ever want to talk to you. You're not a true Ukrainian.
01:33:27
Speaker
Because I think this would be detrimental to the state building that you're talking about. So you're making a contribution there as well to say, look, everybody has their story to tell. We all have certain pressures we are under, challenges to face. And our survival in the end is what will be the priority for any one of us. So don't be too quick to judge, but rather try and understand their story before you do it. And this is what you're doing. And it's very, very valuable, very important the way that I see. So also thank you for that.
01:33:58
Speaker
Oh, thank you for appreciating that. You did raise a very important topic, which is the reintegration of Ukrainians back into country after occupation. And while I believe that what we are doing is a really important contribution to that, I also do think that there should be a huge system built around it because
01:34:23
Speaker
It is in the nature of people to make quick decisions because they are easy. And it's not our nature to kind of try and complicate things even more.
01:34:36
Speaker
And we need a system to ease the decisions of reintegration for the whole society because it will be much easier without the system to judge people, to become judgmental, to become prejudiced.
01:34:53
Speaker
It's a callback to our LGBT plus episode, which is obviously raising important questions. But the same can be applied to any group of people, not just LGBT, but say the people from occupied territories. And there are layers to this. So again, shout out to the insane team behind that, Stas Moroso, the director, Stas Medvedev, the screenwriter.
01:35:20
Speaker
Alexei Gladyshevsky is a creative producer of it, and if Genni Osana, the director of photography, they are united with the purpose. And what I like is that they do create the story which is bigger than maybe a narrow topic. Not the right word, by no means LGBT is a narrow topic, but still big questions raised. They encompass more
01:35:50
Speaker
than we initially see and this is easily applicable to any group of people
01:35:57
Speaker
who may be ostracized for their choices and for their beliefs, or like we talked right now about her science story, by lack of it. Not that they are guilty in the face, but rather it's a defensive mechanism, and it is understandable, so we need to have a system of reintegration back.
01:36:23
Speaker
because there will be hardships. It will not be easy, but it has to be done. And I do believe this will be achieved a lot easier, at least, if their stories are known and are being told. I believe, I really truly believe in the power of storytelling, also as being a societal bridge in that sense. And that's why I really believe what you're doing is very, very important.
01:36:48
Speaker
And I can't wait to see the first episodes then. So I also want to highly recommend. I will obviously link to all of this in the episode. Everybody that's listening today, just keep an eye out for this amazing series because there will be updates. And obviously, obviously, I will link to the Kickstarter campaign. So if you have a buck to spare, please support this very, very important project.
01:37:13
Speaker
There is something I would like to share with you in closing a little bit, because as coincidence has it, we are recording this on Monday, on the 22nd of August, and in two days on Wednesday, also half a year after the occupation or the invasion of Russia is actually Ukrainian's Independence Day, right?
01:37:33
Speaker
Also, my mom's birthday, which has nothing to do with it. But just in this particular case, I will just say, hi, mom, have a great birthday. I love you anyway. And but now they are forever linked in my head. You see my mom's birthday, Independence Day of Ukraine. So I will not forget it a single year anymore.
01:37:51
Speaker
So I would like to ask you, how do you usually celebrate Independence Day in Ukraine? And how do you think that will be shaped this year or if there will be any difference? You know, for myself, it has always been a matter of some private holiday, so to say. So I do not go and indulge in celebration activities. I rather spend it quietly.
01:38:21
Speaker
but I do believe this year will be different because Previously it was a national holiday an important one, but it was not vital to a vital feeling to understand independence for a lot of Ukrainians, especially born in Russian-speaking families So I do believe this one will be special in terms of
01:38:50
Speaker
Now we truly know what independence means. And this alone makes it stand out in ways that were not possible, but were not thought of before.
01:39:11
Speaker
The independence is something which does have a price. And this is a price of making hard decisions. This is a price of being ready to give it all for the idea of you and your country and your fellow Ukrainians. And it will be less cheerful obviously, but it will also have
01:39:41
Speaker
higher value for every Ukrainian because of the price we are paying right now.
Reflecting on Independence and Creation
01:39:53
Speaker
And you are realizing maybe also what, you know, the price you're paying obviously also underlines the value of it. And I think this is this is exactly what you're saying. I think... I'll just tie up that with the cave and story. So, you know, I do like the instrument.
01:40:21
Speaker
tool as a director because I like to begin with something and then to end going back to it.
01:40:31
Speaker
And the price paid for your independence, the price paid for your rebirth is what we are currently trying to tell in Cave episode. By the way, we did have our first shooting day in the previous month to prepare the whole structure. So again, shout out to Natasha Tarjevska, the screenwriter, and Stanislav Stavchenko, the director of photography for their huge work and their faith in the story.
01:41:01
Speaker
I do believe that this is also the story of how every one of us should stand up and understand what Ukraine is now on the verge of Independence Day and the 31st year of independence and counting, and it will be counting for that I'm absolutely sure. We all need to find that strength even if we can't walk, even if we can't stand up
01:41:32
Speaker
Literally, we need to find ways to make it, at least figuratively, to find this spark inside and to stand up. And I believe that this is what the independence is for for myself. It is to stand up for something bigger than you. And this something which is bigger than you is really important in your life.
01:42:01
Speaker
because it makes you become more than you. And at the end of the day, this does matter. So I believe.
01:42:16
Speaker
Yes, it's bigger than the sum of all its parts, right? Yes. Nick, I think there can be no better way to end our fantastic conversation. Really, there was so much I learned, there's so much I'm taking away from it. You have inspired me immensely to take some of that and invest that in my own little projects that I have also running.
Conclusion and Future Projects
01:42:38
Speaker
which by no means are as epic as yours, but I'm grateful for you to have spent this time with us. And again, just to make sure that everybody's listening in, I will link to the Kickstarter and what I would ask you to do, please also send me the links to all the contributors that you name so that everybody can get a good look at their work and what they are doing and you will find those links in the show notes as well.
01:43:07
Speaker
So, of course. Thank you. And I do encourage you to not downplay your projects because one of the motives of Ukrainian growth is there are no small acts because there are no small acts. There are no small projects. They might be different in production terms, but in their value, especially for a person who needs to create something, I believe that there are no small deeds. So best of luck. Thank you so much, Nick.
01:43:37
Speaker
Thank you so much, Nick. And I do actually agree with you as well. Yes. And that's a very good and healthy way of looking at it. I wish you all the best with the project. Let's keep in touch. And I will definitely follow Rebirth Ukraine, Ukraine Rebirth very closely and see what's happening. And until we meet again, I wish you all the best and thank you once again for being with us today, Nick.
01:44:03
Speaker
And thank you very much for your kind words for having me here today. And I also do wish you all the best and to the Yellow Band Stories podcast and to you personally and to all of your projects as well, because you are a person with beliefs. And I do think that you are going and are already doing that. You're creating great things and please don't stop, which is really important. And I salute you. Thank you.
01:44:32
Speaker
And with these very kind words, thank you, Nick. We are at the end of this week's ride in the yellow van. Thank you very much for coming along today. We hope you had a good, but not too comfortable ride. Thank you, Nick, for your trust in me and the work we do at Mind the Bump Productions.
01:44:50
Speaker
If you're Ukrainian and would like to come on the show or if you know someone who should, please don't hesitate to contact us. We are happy and grateful for anyone reaching out to us on www.yellowvansstories.com where you can also leave us your general feedback or ideas for improvements.
01:45:07
Speaker
With numerous parallel projects and a new documentary film project in the making, we might not be able to finish a new episode until next week, unfortunately. Please check in on Instagram or LinkedIn for the launch of the new episode. A lot of interesting and exciting guests are already lined up.
01:45:24
Speaker
We will continue our journey through the vast and beautiful Ukrainian cultural landscape. That's for sure. And maybe, with a bit of luck, the elevator might broadcast from Ukraine in the not-so-distant future. We are already contemplating our options in making this possible. So stay tuned.
01:45:42
Speaker
We hope to welcome you back very soon therefore for a brand new episode. And until then, keep loving in the face of fear and stand with Ukraine. Take it away, Jim.
01:46:34
Speaker
face of fear
01:47:07
Speaker
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh
01:47:30
Speaker
Love and love, are your standards for your rights?