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Roman Pilipey "The Ultimate Price"
129 Plays5 months ago
Roman Pilipey is a Ukrainian photojournalist based in Kiyv. The first main event he witnessed as a photographer was the Euromaidan revolution in Kyiv, 2013-2014, when Ukraine showed its clear and unmistakable determination to be a part of Europe. It is no coincidence that the invasion and annexation of Crimea by Russian military happened only a few months later. From 2014, Roman was covering the, then still isolated, war in eastern Ukraine, and, in the same year, became the staff photographer for European Pressphoto Agency (EPA). For the next few years, Roman's focus was mainly on Eastern Ukraine and its aftermath, while also working in other parts of the country. In 2017, Roman relocated to Beijing for EPA where he worked on stories and covered major news events in China, becoming in 2022 the EPA bureau chief for the China region. Throughout his years in China, he has been traveling to almost every corner of the country. For his work in China he was awarded Photographer of the Year, POY Asia 2022.
When the Russian invasion of Ukraine began, Roman had just finished covering the Beijing Olympic Games. He immediately left China and went to his native country to cover the war. Since then he relocated back to Ukraine, where he works on stories of the ongoing war. In early 2023, after eight years in EPA, Roman left the agency. Since then he is actively collaborating with Getty Images, and works as chief photographer for Agence France-Presse (AFP). In 2023, with his picture from Bucha, which we will discuss in more detail a little later on, he was awarded Pictures of the Year International (POY) Finalist in “War in Ukraine: News” category, and in 2024 Roman was named Photojournalist of the Year, National at the 2024 National Press Photographers Association (NPPA) in the category Best of Photojournalism. An award he much deserves and I was very happy to see him receive.
Having him in the van with us today, we will look at the Russian invasion of Ukraine through the eyes of one its most accomplished chroniclers by discussing a selection of Roman's images from the last two years. And I am, therefore, incredibly grateful to have him with us today.
Welcome to the Yellow Van, Roman!
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SHOW NOTES
Image Gallery
https://bit.ly/yellowvanstories
Roman on the Web
https://www.facebook.com/roman.pilipey
https://www.linkedin.com/in/roman-pilipey-3a1a2367/
https://x.com/RomanPilipey
Ukraine Aid
https://www.hospitallers.life/
https://prytulafoundation.org/en
https://savelife.in.ua/en/
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MUSIC
Love In The Face Of Fear, Jim Kroft
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The Yellow Van on YouTube:
https://youtu.be/voAIEy4j4Lc
Recommended
Transcript
Tragic Photo Publication
00:00:04
Speaker
And then this photo was published in a big French midday on the front page in liberation was a front page of Sergei on this front page. And I mean, I was just happy, you know, that he's photo got published. And I wanted to I send it to commander, I wanted him to to show this photo to Sergius and send it to him. Look, he got published. I mean, I'm sure he would be happy. And then the the commander told me that that he is not alive anymore. He got killed. And that's just how it strikes me. That also as it shows all of this
00:00:53
Speaker
the war in Ukraine, all of this, what people are going through, is like today, today someone alive and tomorrow you can just get the message and it's going to be said, well, he's not anymore. That's how, you know, I mean, I was just, yeah, it was just such a sad moment and I was sure sir he would be happy to see that photo are published, just sure he would be so happy. you know And that's yeah that's the cost of of war Ukraine pays.
Roman Pilipe's Work on the Invasion
00:01:33
Speaker
Hi and welcome to the Yellow Van Stories. The image of Sergi you have just seen was taken by Roman Pilipe, an awarded photographer from Kiev in Ukraine. Today marks a very special episode for me as I have been following Roman's work for quite some time now and I have a deep appreciation for what he does. The approach of a subject with empathy and allowing them space. making them contributors to his image and equals rather than spectators of their own demise. So for this occasion I asked him to choose around 15 images that chronicled the Russian invasion of Ukraine over the last two years.
00:02:13
Speaker
Because I believe too often we, the ones looking in from the outside, from within the safety of our homes, easily get caught up with the current and analyses and latest developments of a war. And forget the ultimate price Ukrainians have been paying and continue to pay every single day ever since Vladimir Putin gave his marching orders on the 24th of February 2022. This war Like any other war is a pile of destruction and death that continues to grow every single day ever since the Ukrainians were forced to fight for their independence and freedom. Now for the first time for you to also see the images because describing them really isn't what photos are meant to be
00:02:59
Speaker
I am putting out this podcast as a video podcast on the website as well as on YouTube. And for all of you who would still rather listen than watch or see, Roman was kind enough to put together a gallery with all the images numbered in sequence. I will obviously link to both of them in the show notes. And before we dive in, I want to thank you for your interest and your continuing support for Ukraine. It is paramount, I believe, to remember that a war is raging in the heart of Europe and the freedom and independence the Ukrainians are fighting for are our very own.
00:03:37
Speaker
The demolition of democracy and freedom of speech, the values we all hold dear, is the very reason Vladimir Putin has started this war and he will not stop until he achieves his end. Therefore our future and Ukraine's are one and the same, fatefully bound together. And my gratitude towards the Ukrainian people therefore has no bounds. But now, without further
Introduction of Roman Pilipe
00:04:04
Speaker
ado, sit back and buckle up, because today we are visiting Roman in Kiev, Ukraine. Hello and welcome to a new episode of the Yellow Vents stories. It has been a while and that's why I'm so excited today to have someone extraordinary here with me today, I believe. um His name is Roman Pilipe. He's an awarded photojournalist from Kiev. And I have been trying to get him on the show. What would we just say, Roman? ah For over a year.
00:04:31
Speaker
And now it's finally happening. You are here. I'm so happy. Welcome to the Edelvan. Thanks a lot. Thanks a lot, Bastin. Pleasure to be in your podcast. it's ah It's really great to have you because um also lately some things have happened for you that were amazing. You have been awarded. um First of all, ah by the National Press Photographers Association, you became best of photojournalism, 2024. I think that's something that's been a long time coming. I've been following your work. I think your contribution is magnificent, so important. um And that's why it's fantastic that you are getting the credit you deserve.
00:05:09
Speaker
So I've seen that and that gave me another extra boost to reach out to you again, um to have this
Achievements in Photojournalism
00:05:15
Speaker
conversation. Oh, here you are. ah Great. Fantastic. Thank you. thanks So we also prepared something quite special today, I believe, because, you know, being a photographer myself, um even though I dabble more in film than in photography, but that's a whole other story. and not part of this conversation today. But um I thought it would be nice to have a conversation really based on your work. So you were kind enough to make a selection of 17 images that from your perspective represent the war from the last two years because you were pretty much there right from the start. And when I say right from the start, I mean 2014 because
00:05:53
Speaker
We very often take February 2022 as the start of the war, but in actual fact, the war started in 2014 already. And we will get into that also in our conversation. um So if you allow me, I'll just have a quick introduction of you. um I've prepared something and then we'll jump right in. How does that sound? Sounds good. Yeah.
Euromaidan Revolution Documentation
00:06:13
Speaker
All right. Roman Pilipe is a Ukrainian photojournalist based in Kiev. The first main event he witnessed as a photographer was the Euromaidan Revolution in Kiev 2013-2014, when Ukraine showed its clear and unmistakable determination to be a part of Europe. And it is no coincidence that the invasion and annexation of Crimea by Russian military happened only a few months later. This is basically what we just said.
00:06:38
Speaker
From 2014 therefore Roman was covering the then still isolated war in eastern Ukraine and in the same year became the star photographer European press photo agency. For the next few years Roman's focus was mainly on eastern Ukraine and his aftermath while also working in other parts of the country. In 2017 Roman relocated to Beijing for the European press agency where he worked on stories and covered major news events in China becoming in 2022 the EPA bureau chief for the China region. Throughout his years in China, he has been traveling to almost every corner of the country, which is not little traveling, I imagine. um to almost For his work in China, he was a awarded photographer of the year um in Asia, 2022.
Return to Ukraine and Accolades
00:07:23
Speaker
When the Russian invasion of Ukraine began, Roman had just finished covering the Beijing Olympic Games, and he immediately left China and went to his native country to cover the war. Since then, he relocated back to Ukraine, where he works on stories of the ongoing war.
00:07:37
Speaker
In early 2023, after eight years in EPA, Roman left the agency, and since then he has actively collaborated with Getty Images, and he works as chief photographer of the Agence France Press, AFP, as we, most of us know it, I think, because it's a little grows a little easier of the time. In 2023, with his picture from Buca, which we will discuss in more detail throughout a little later on, he was awarded Pictures of the Year International Finalist and war in War on Ukraine News category. And in 2022, Roman was named Photojournalist of the Year National at the 2024 National Press Photographers' Association in the category Best of Photojournalism, as I have already mentioned. An award he much deserves, and I was very happy to see him receive it.
00:08:21
Speaker
So having him in the van with us today, we will look at the war in Ukraine, this criminal Russian invasion through the eyes of one of the most accomplished chroniclers by discussing a selection of Roman's images from the last two years. And I'm therefore incredibly excited to have him with us today. So welcome to the yellow van, Roman.
Current Experiences in Ukraine
00:08:40
Speaker
Again. Thanks. Thanks alone, Boston. Thanks a lot for your introduction. Pleasure. Pleasure to be on your podcast finally. Yes, finally. We said it before, but yeah, it's really fantastic that you are here. I'm very happy because like I said, I've been following your work for quite some time now, actually. Thank you. So to jump in, where are you at the moment?
00:09:07
Speaker
i I'm right now at my place in Kiev. Yeah, and um I have some time off. I was in the east of Ukraine a couple of weeks ago, um covering the the ongoing war. So yeah, right now in Kiev, in my place. How does it usually work when you go out and, uh, and, you know, take pictures?
Covering Events and Mental Health
00:09:34
Speaker
Uh, do you have, is it like a roaster? Is it like you go photograph two weeks, then you go back home two weeks? Is there like a routine to it or is it really based on what is happening? Um, you know, put your ear to the ground. Uh, is there, is there something like that?
00:09:49
Speaker
I mean, it depends so also depends on the what's happening in the East. Going with the AFP, yes, we have some kind of also a routine, but like if I go, it's like two weeks, then you take some some break. But also if you work on some stories or there is anything ah big happen, you can also jump in and go also for to cover those events. It also depends on the events. um So yeah, but also you need to remember about sometimes to take some break and not, you know, like sometimes just to get some ah time off for you, for your physical and mental health, which is important, especially, you know, in the how long.
00:10:36
Speaker
This war is going on and there is no end in sight. so you For the long run, we all need to be ready not to to to to burn out ourselves. so yeah yes That's why I'm asking because
Invasion Day Recollection
00:10:52
Speaker
that's what I imagine. i mean It must take a heavy, heavy toll. and um In order to keep on doing what you are doing, those recreational phases, if I can call it that, I don't know. ah You will disagree with me if it's maybe if you have a better term for it. But they are very important, I suppose. That's why I thought maybe it's, you know, you have like two ah two weeks of this, two weeks of that, but you at least, you're very mindful of having that downtime as well, then. ah yeah I see. Yeah, I think it's important. I mean, first, when the war began, if I jump in there, then I had, I was, I don't remember, I was just completely ah nonstop for half a year working. I mean, the war began, it's just, but but then if we speak in now on the Third Year of War,
00:11:36
Speaker
I think it's important for photographers, for journalists, for everyone just to keep track of you know, of your health, of your mental health, especially physical health. And remember that if there is some chance also to, to to take some break, which is important. yeah um Unfortunately, yeah you know, soldiers, they can't often come to that they have their time, but sometimes feels like when I met soldiers, they just
00:12:07
Speaker
They have completely no time to rest and that that's I think it's really important. But for us, we at least we we have sometimes this privilege to to take some some rest and that's important sometimes to take it as well. Especially we know how long it's all going to be and that can be a really long, long run.
00:12:31
Speaker
let's Let's wind back a little bit from this now because I think a lot of things have changed. You also said in the first six months, you were kind of working nonstop and then you know you realize it can't go on like this. and It you know became very obvious, I believe, that this is a long war. It's a war of attrition. uh planned exactly like that also by russia um so just to go back a little bit back up um how was the was 24th of february for you do you remember that day how how did you get the news where were you and what was going through your head
00:13:08
Speaker
Yeah, I remember that day clearly.
Challenges Returning to Ukraine
00:13:12
Speaker
Yeah, I was at that day locked in the hotel in Beijing. So I covered the Olympic before and those days they were just like few days after the finishing of the Olympic in Beijing in China. And like in China, we had COVID, you know, zero COVID kind of policy at that moment. So to get back to Beijing, like we this Olympic hole was completely weird as the Olympics I've ever seen. Literally, you have a small city within a city, ah it's called like a COVID bubble. So we entered once you enter this bubble, that's all athletes coming, all foreign journalists from other countries coming. So we were in that bubble. bubble
00:14:02
Speaker
And after Olympic two to be able for me to return to Beijing, though I was in Beijing, I had to do a two weeks or three weeks, I think two weeks of quarantine. I think at that time they took two weeks of quarantine. So I was locked in a hotel room and I remember why I was exhausted after Olympic, wanted to take a rest. But at that time it was all unclear with with the war in Ukraine. And even two weeks before the war in Ukraine, like reading the news at that time, covering a living, checking the news, I felt like that something might happen.
00:14:41
Speaker
So actually I told you at that time to my colleagues and to the head office in EPA saying that the war might start and I feel like is it's definitely worth and it makes sense if I go go back to Ukraine, I want to go back to Ukraine um just even before the war. By that time we they were like, you know we We didn't know exactly what happened and we spoke with colleagues, so we kind of postponed that, kind of thinking, okay, let's see how the situation goes. And at that day, I remember that I spoke with one of my colleagues and over the phone.
00:15:23
Speaker
and and And suddenly she she said, oh, like has like but what's all? And she's like, oh, I'm reading that the news says that the war in Ukraine began. So since then, everything changed for me. ah Yeah, i wrote I remember I wrote to my parents, to friends, start following the news. And I said, I'm coming back to Ukraine. The problem was for me to go back to Ukraine. It's not as easy as to say because I was locked in a hotel.
00:15:56
Speaker
with all strict rules, you can't take a plane. There is no way you can take a plane to Ukraine. You can't take a normal plane from China because you are in this COVID bubble hotel in quarantine. It's only special designated planes you can take. So, anyway, to make the story shorter, I had to wait a few days. We booked the plane. and And it took me it took me some time to to go back to Ukraine, um like three, four days, basically. I got back on 28th of February through Paris, Poland, then in Poland, my luggage was lost. I remember I waited one day. Anyway, it was a long story, but I found the train which goes to Kiev.
00:16:46
Speaker
so So yeah, sorry, maybe I got jumped a bit to two another story, but yeah, at that time... No, no, no, if not at all. Yeah, just so all this memory you asked me and I start remembering how it was all chaotic, completely. like I didn't even imagine what will be, will I have time to get back to Kiev? Will it be still Ukraine at that time? Well, everyone was saying three days and Ukraine will fall. So I was coming back without not knowing. But yeah, yeah I met this warning locked in Beijing quarantine during my COVID tests.
00:17:26
Speaker
But the photographer that you are, your first instinct was also I have to go back and document this. Was this like one of the first thoughts that you had when you heard about the invasion? I think as a Ukrainian, the first thoughts that you have is there are my relatives there. parents there, my sister there, all my friends there. So that's what the first thought I had. And I was like, what's going to happen? I need to maybe help my parents too, with my sister to have a craze and you know, like more like this thing. And then second, you think, okay, I'm photographer and yes, I want to recommend this and I want to be in the country in these hardest moments.
00:18:12
Speaker
So that's two thoughts I had. and um Yeah, that's basically two two thoughts that I had at that moment. Yes, of course you think of your family first. That goes without saying, of course. um But yeah, i i I believe as well, yeah, if you if you hear this, that will be an instinct. um And, you know, photography, being a means of ah of chronicling what is going on, it is so important, um especially now. So um that brings us to, I think, already to our our first image, actually, because um this is a picture that was taken on the train on the 28th of February, 2022.
Symbolic War Images
00:18:56
Speaker
So this was an image that you have taken um just on the day you arrived in Ukraine then, I suppose. Do you want to tell us a little bit more about it? And I will, in the video portion of this, um I will obviously now put the images there so you guys know what we are talking about.
00:19:11
Speaker
and we will also make ah a gallery available so you can take it the look take a look at the pictures well if in case you're just listening. so um yeah So please tell us a little bit about that photo, how you took it and and what was going on at the time. yeah i mean that's so well As I said, for me it took a long time to to go back and by luck I found this train ah which was heading from Warsaw. This train brought brought refuge refugees from Kiev and Ukraine all.
00:19:43
Speaker
um to warsaw And by luck I managed to find find this train I was told, I remember the railway station, that there is a train, an evacuation train that goes back to Kiev. It comes full of people that go back quite empty. So me, and at that time I met one of the colleagues, we two two of us, we board a train. And it was almost empty, a part of that there were men, some few men, they were on a train heading from Europe, ah from different countries, from Spain, I remember one man said, they were heading back and they just said they're going to join um a Ukrainian army.
00:20:26
Speaker
So that first image is is we we are arriving ah to Kiev. That's the moment we're almost at the railway station and those men, they're looking out the windows. um So yeah, me arriving with them. I'm sure they had the same clinic as I had, with completely unknown what's going to happen, what's happening. I completely couldn't imagine what will happen even in the next couple of days with everybody saying that, you know, that moment, that key will fall soon, everyone will have a great... And here, you know, I'm coming back and those men coming to join the army.
00:21:12
Speaker
um Yeah, I remember in Warsaw when I was boarding this train, there were like loads of people and one man came to me and he saw I was taking some photos of of of refugees coming out and he came and he said, oh, we are colleagues. And and I'm like, well, he's he said just that he's a videographer. ah from local national TV and and and he said he left Kyiv and he asked what I am. He thought probably that I also left and I'm saying well I'm going to board this train to Kyiv and he really tried to stop me from boarding. He said don't board don't go there please.
00:21:47
Speaker
um Yeah, I'm just asking the same time, please, no, I'm going back to Kyiv. So yeah, there's the moment basically of coming back to Kyiv on that train. I think someone someone said, and I ah can't i can't really ah place the quote now, but somebody said, you know, photo photojournalists are the people that ah you know run towards the events that everybody else is running away from. um I think i think that that's quite apt. It couldn't be any other way as well. um so i mean The courage that it takes um to do that, I take my hat off to you and to all the colleagues who do that every day.
00:22:28
Speaker
I believe that the image captures this very well also. If you see this man in this in this train corridor there, the way that he looks outside of that window, it's like it's like this like he's looking at the unknown. like He's really like his his facial expression and everything. There's like this tension. It's palpable. You can see it. You can feel it. And it's like someone who looks at something that's familiar that he doesn't recognize anymore all of a sudden. ah Is that is that a feeling that you can also kind of? You know subscribe to was it like that for you also a little bit because entering your home That is all of a sudden at war. How did you feel? Yeah, and I think that's that's exactly how I felt. I mean as as those men like I completely had Had no clue what's going to happen even in the next day or in the next couple of days and especially
00:23:26
Speaker
um I remember, because I haven haven't been to Ukraine but at that moment for a few years because of COVID pandemic, right? And as I say, I was coming back and it's been like two years. I haven't been to Ukraine. I didn't see my parents. And you know at that time, my sister, she was a young sister. At that time she was 18. and and And she, well, we all felt that, you know, she needs to live. She needs to live at that time. But it was impossible at that time even to live. Like literally so many people and and... Because of the limited capacity of the trains so or why wasn't it possible? Yeah, everyone wanted to live. And I remember I talked to my parents and and they just say, they say, we are going to stay in Kiev. I mean, they live outside Kiev a bit.
00:24:26
Speaker
but they said we need to to try to just you know send her away. And so that time I said, okay, like I was on a train and and I talk also to to the train attendant. We just we had the whole these nights and day, like we chat at that time like on on a train with him. and And I told him my story that I have a small sister and and she needs to live. So he kindly he said that he can help, just that she can come to the train to live. And so at that time, basically, I was
00:25:08
Speaker
expecting that also my parents, they came to that railway station. you know I didn't see them for two years. My sister, my my mom, my stepdad, and I said, come to railway station. It was a surreal moment. because, you know, I didn't expect that that's how I'm going to see my family almost two years. So I don't want even more during this pandemic. I really wanted, I remember at that time in China i was literally was hard to travel abroad from China. So I didn't leave China during this pandemic time. And I, you know, I couldn't even imagine that's how I'm going to meet my family. They came to railway station so my sister can board a train on that train, which I came, my sister would board after.
00:25:52
Speaker
So I met my parents when we left the train. I met my parents really quickly for like five minutes. Then my sister and then, yeah, my sister took the train later and left. And then I left, my parents left back home because of the curfew time. And since they live outside Kiev, they had to leave quickly. And I left and and I started working right from that moment, from the railway station. start straight working. So it was for me it was a really surreal moment as a personally more like, you know, you you see your family in this the the strangest time. I was so happy to see them.
00:26:33
Speaker
even though it was so short, but it was just, you know, giving you all the energy and your family see you. It was really a touching moment for me and that moment, to be honest, like to to to see a family and all of these, you know, mates of this craziness. um And that was it was relief that my sister, she left. Also, I mean, just just in in in memory, because I think this is something, because we forget so often, so quickly, um you know at that time, it seemed like Kiev might fall like within days, right? That it was just a question of time until um Russian forces would invade the city. So the urgency of getting out of the city was just ah more extreme than then it is now, I suppose, right?
00:27:22
Speaker
Yeah. At that time, no one knew what's going to happen. I know some journalists start leaving. um And at the same day, actually, I received some message from some some colleagues they said, because I didn't have a car. um I literally arrived. I stayed at my friend's place. he He picked me up, and I stayed at his place, because literally the hotels were closed. I had no place to stay. My ah parents, they live quite far outside the city, and I needed to be more in the downtown.
00:27:58
Speaker
And I had some colleagues with whom later I was traveling together who kindly also offered me a seat in a car. And they say, if we have a crate, you can go with us. By that moment, I said, you know, I just remember I unpacked my bags. I said, guys, I unpacked my bags and kind of said, oh, I'm going to stay here and and and see how the situation goes. um But I want to to cover this and and be a witness. Wow. Really, my heartfelt respect because i mean I don't even know what that must be like. You don't see your parents for so long and then you have to let them go. Basically, the instance you see them, it's um because you feel there's something bigger than you um and that takes a lot of courage. and you know Really, ah my my my heartfelt respect. Amazing.
00:28:51
Speaker
I have to ask um though, of course, how is your sister now? How are your parents? are they Is your sister still outside of Ukraine? Have you seen her in the meantime? Yeah, yeah. My parents, they they are in Kyiv, outside in Kyiv suburbs. they They also had to leave Kiev for some time in the beginning of the war because and their place was kind of, and we can say, not that far from Bucher. And so so they had to leave at some point.
00:29:22
Speaker
ah My sister she is now she's in Warsaw She's working so everything fine. I saw her she was she's coming to to Ukraine um So yeah, thanks. All all is good with with all my relatives
00:29:41
Speaker
I'm happy to hear that, you know, I'm very happy to hear that. Which is something that brings us to the second image that you selected as well, to make that transition because it was taken on the same day, right? The travel day when you took the train from Warsaw to Kiev. So on the second image, we see, I believe it's the train station in Kiev,
Evacuation and Shelter Images
00:30:02
Speaker
correct? And we see yeah the amount of people that are standing there looking around, looking a little disoriented actually as well, if I look at it, my impression, because nobody knows when the trains are going, ah which trains they will get. um At least that's the impression that I have when I look at this picture. But please, ah you tell the story, it's your picture and you were there.
00:30:26
Speaker
So what what are we seeing from this picture? Yeah, it's the main hall of the of the railway station. So know you've completely correctly ah described that people people were just waiting for any information about train. ah Like literally they just wait if there is any train coming ah to to to board the train and go somewhere could leave to live towards Western Ukraine at first, later from there. um To Europe or there is some direct trains like this one I came which goes directly towards so but it was it was at that moment it was just ah You know complete madness like there were not enough trains
00:31:12
Speaker
No one knew if they can board the road. No way you can and invite ticket or get any ticket. You just have to wait and literally queue or come to the platform and try to to squeeze to train. i was at Those days, they were they were complete mandates, I can say.
00:31:35
Speaker
It's also because, you know, what we don't realize sometimes is like, because the skies were closed, they weren't safe, right? The Russian air force took control of the skies. So all flights were grounded. And of course, international ah travel is usually done by plane and a big portion of it. So all of a sudden, everything that was just in the past going with planes outside of Ukraine was now all taken to the train train tracks. Of course, that is an immense logistical challenge ah that you were facing in those days, just to put it in perspective as well. Yeah, you're right. At that time, I mean, the railway system at that time, it was like, I mean, yes, that was the most important kind of arterial going ah from Kyiv and helping people to live
00:32:29
Speaker
um to leave Kiev, other cities to evacuate. And i mean I must say that at that time, the railway workers, they they did ah tremendous work as well. They were even under shelling. Uncertainty, they will keep operating, trains will keep going, taking people out of Kiev, out of other cities. um Yeah, they they did a really, really important and that was a really important job one day they did at that time. Yeah, I've i've seen you know reports and and documentaries about it, how ah challenging ah it is to keep the system running, of course, and especially because it is really the main means of transportation now because ah because of the closed skies.
00:33:16
Speaker
um I think that the image transports that also very well because you see, I think it captures all of that very, very well when you look at it. um Like I said, I will link to the images so that you guys can ah see them for yourselves. Picture number three, Key 1st of March. What are we seeing here and why did you choose this image, Roman? I mean, it was one of my first images from Kyiv after I arrived, so that's the next day. um And that's so that's that's how people who stayed in Kyiv, that's how they were like, you know, surviving, basically. those ah This is Ahmedit Children's Hospital.
00:34:04
Speaker
Here we can see children with their parents staying in the basement, because here was um under bombardment. those first weeks and the following month. They were no anti-aircraft guns. like Also to say, like in the beginning of the war, like a lot of the anti-aircraft guns came much, much later. right so At that time, I felt the shedding probably of Kiev was still a lot worse. Or is oh am I wrong in saying that? You know much better, of course.
00:34:38
Speaker
Yeah, i mean they probably there were some also in Turkey, but it's not at that time there were no Ukrainian receipts so far, any you know weapons from from allies, from US or European Union. they will just Maybe somebody was not enough at all, and Kyiv was was really under bombardment every day. um Heavy shellings, that was just a daily life or of people living in here. So that's that's when I visited the the basement of the hospital, saw how you know people with their children
00:35:18
Speaker
Yeah, um yeah I mean that so those weeks, months, he had no, we can say that he had no proper air defense at all, like the rest of Ukraine as well.
00:35:33
Speaker
So a lot of people would actually at that time go into basements, especially, of course, you know, some people, if they had homes with basements, they could go there, but a lot of people obviously don't. So they would go to subway stations. A lot of people would seek refuge and shelter there, right? I remember those image images very well. I'm sure you spent time in those as well in the subways. Why did you choose this image of the hospital? Especially, is there something about it that that makes it special to you? and i just add that I think for this photo, I just wanted to show how people were living those days. and And it's not only those days. that we we still Even now, you know right now, we have air sirens. And throughout the day-to-day, I mean, I don't know. I can't count how many. I think three or four we already had today.
00:36:27
Speaker
um So, you know, that's how people even nowadays they leave, like, you know, children, you know, with parents, they still, you know, they're going at night, we are sharing during the day, some days we have, you know, people, lots of parents without children, they keep going still. So it's this picture. from the first days of the war, but that's the same what we still have it right now in all over Ukraine. So yeah it's just not like it's not like we can say, well, it was in past, it's a history. No, that's the reality and it's still the same. People keep going to subway in like often when Russia shells Ukraine, it's often happens early morning or like night, like 5am, 4am.
00:37:23
Speaker
Like we can see lots of often people they go into subways, children, some people tired, like literally like imagine your life every day going to subway or like waking up for him. Some people just. you know, take more risks saying, well, you know, like yeah they just take more risks, they they they stay in in their place or they go off and, you know, usually bathroom, the rule of four walls. So that's the reality. That time was like that and it's still it's still still like that nowadays for Ukraine. So just wanted to show
00:38:02
Speaker
you know, how how the life for people looked like in the first weeks of the war. And nothing changed. We have the words still going on.
00:38:13
Speaker
Also, i mean what I read ah lately is that the shelling has also increased. Also, air raids have increased. um On top of that, um ammunition for a lot of the anti-aircraft guns and machinery is running low because the European Union is very slow. to send more. um So ah do you feel that? Do you feel that there is more? Because you said it's the same now as it was back then, but do you feel lately, personally, being there that there is more shelling, that there are more air raids? How does it and how does it influence you?
00:38:51
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, definitely for if we speak about Ukraine in general, like for not about Kiev. Well, Kiev is comparing to the rest of of the cities in Ukraine, we can say it's it's well more protected. um I wish all at least cities in Ukraine had the same protection as Kiev. um but But that's true. Russia increased their shelling. I mean, they never stopped that shelling, but sometimes it goes much, much more. And now we can see what's happening all over Ukraine, like Kharkiv, which they you know the the energy infrastructure is destroyed. yeah I was there recently.
00:39:35
Speaker
There are blackouts, no
00:39:39
Speaker
So yeah, i mean it's all over Ukraine. Russia is sometimes increased, sometimes less, but it never stops. So it's even hard to say. like you know Even Kiev, ki as I said, well more protected. So there is air defense probably working better. um But yeah, even Kiev gets... These days, the but the past month was shelved. So, you know, the Russians trying to also reach Kiev and other cities. So, yeah.
00:40:17
Speaker
I mean, it it is it is obviously, you know, it's trying to demoralize ah Ukrainian people. I mean, it it is obvious. but What do you what? What do you? Is there anything in in Kiev in Ukraine to keep morale high? Are there like what what do people do? Is there Is there anything in particular, does everybody, you know, um deal with it by themselves? Is there is there a way with that people get together to keep morale high? what What are you observing there in the city at the moment? Also throughout Ukraine, not just in Kiev, obviously. I don't know. it's's It's hard to say how, you know, it's really hard to say how in general people keep their morale. People sometimes, yeah, that's definitely all of that.
00:41:03
Speaker
Shelling's is also to brag the moral of Ukrainians, um as well as to destroy the country. um But um people, yeah generally ah lots of people, they tire it, but they know their spirit is not broken. So no matter what, they you know they they keep going. and and it's It's hard to to to to to be honest, to answer what keeps their their moral. But I think because Ukrainians in general, you know, throughout history, they've always been something that, yeah you know, try to to to oppress them to, you know, always something. So I don't know, I think it's this period of Ukrainians in general, maybe you can say that people people are,
00:42:01
Speaker
keep fighting in in all ways possible. um Yeah, I think it's, you know, people keep, sometimes it's, it's, it's it just ridiculous if you think from, from maybe in Europe, if you tell this story, like, you know, like shelling happened. And then in 15 minutes, they start already like cafe, repairing cafe and even half broken cafe, the woman there, she starts making coffee for for people there. You know, that's just shows that's all about Ukraine. That's, that's how it's,
00:42:35
Speaker
It shows Ukraine, I think, no matter what, people won't be one be broken, so they will keep fighting.
00:42:45
Speaker
I think you just said that that's part of you know Ukrainian history. So maybe this is the sum of ah you know over four hundred years of almost years of Ukrainians fighting for their independence is also culminating in that now. um I think that's that's that's a very that's a very good way of looking at it. I admire that. I really admire that because um you know I read so many reports also on on the atrocities are being committed and you know the how how it must be so taxing on people every single day and nonetheless people go about their lives and um and I mean the question is also what would you otherwise do but still like the spirit and everything is amazing and I have ah the utmost respect for all of it um
00:43:33
Speaker
and really doing this podcast also with the history of Ukraine, with the Maidan movements, Euromaidan and the two Maidans before then, the whole history of it is I am amazed at the fight that people in Ukraine are putting up for self-determination, democracy and freedom. And ah and it it it should serve all of us who I believe are little tired, it seems, sometimes of democracy and of freedom. You know, if you take a look at how we vote vote in a lot of parts of the world, also in Europe, and that can serve as a huge inspiration, I believe, and it should serve as a huge inspiration. This is also one of the reasons why I'm doing this podcast, because you guys in Ukraine are showing us the actual value of democracy and freedom. And thank you for that.
00:44:21
Speaker
Thank you. That's about Ukraine. and That's about Ukraine in a nutshell, right? um So that brings us to the fourth image, 15th of March, 2024.
War's Personal Impact
00:44:36
Speaker
Why did you pick this image and what are we seeing here, Roman? That's ah that's what i what I said before, you know that's that's how the life of people in Kiev and you know all Ukraine look like, daily shelling. And here we just see a huge residential building just was after it was hit by Russian missile. ah Some people got killed.
00:45:03
Speaker
um some injuries, and here we just see yeah firefighters trying to extinguish the fire. um That's basically what life looked like for Ukraine's daily, especially in the first few months of the war. ah There I also had some small, maybe interesting story. I mean, sad story. By all means, su please. Yes. um Yeah, I just I didn't include that photo ah in the selection, which I sent you, but there was like an old lady, she was standing and
00:45:40
Speaker
And, you know, for all people, sometimes that's what I'm asking also, even right now, at that time, why, you know, why they didn't leave? Sometimes, you know, you come to a place completely ravaged by war and there are still some elderly still staying, they stick to their house, you know, they for them, they It's hard maybe for us, for younger people to understand, you know, when we travel, when we see. And for us, kind of, okay, it's just a place. If it's...
00:46:11
Speaker
you know The old place is ravaged by war, just leave the place. But often for old people, it's hard. And at that moment, I remember I met one old lady. I took a photo of her. She was standing by herself and in mud after she was ah rescued from her place. and and And then I took a photo, then I put camera down and I came to her to chat. And then she said, you know, she told me this was like, she said, okay, so now the life is over.
00:46:48
Speaker
And I'm, you know, I try to tell you, but it's fine. That's just the place. They will rebuild the house. They will, they ran away in this house. Everything will be fine. You know, you try to cheer her up. And she was just look at me and said, no, you don't understand. The life is over for me. um because her place got burned. It was was sad at that moment. just you know For her, probably, that's where she spent maybe all her life there. And just in one moment, it all gets ah get disappeared.
00:47:20
Speaker
um Yeah, that's... I was just... was a sad moment. I mean, to end this story, probably now, I hope, I don't know, I didn't get your contact. so I hope she is she's safe and and everything is fine with her because that building, I know it was renovated. um So I hope that at least her place, she got back her place and actually she could, you know, continue living but that's true for many elderly people throughout all Ukraine when they said it's time to recreate something lots of elderly people they just don't want to live because that's where they grow
00:48:03
Speaker
I spend the whole life, so I try to understand sometimes it's hard, I'm sometimes just thinking why just live because you you know in the east of Ukraine now or in the south the places that always under bombardment and then I try to remember remember this story and try to you know because just to remind okay they spent it's still not just justified for me I still sometimes I spoke to many elderly people in many areas like that's in the east which are under bombardment. I'm trying to somewhere just to tell them it's better you leave. You'll come back to your place, but just better you leave. It's dangerous. It's every day under shelling villages. And sometimes they listen, but it's often like they, you know, they say, well, that's the place where I grew. I'm not going to leave this place no matter what happened.
00:48:52
Speaker
um So, yeah. I also believe, or I could imagine at least, when you are that age, when you are older um and you have been living there for so long and you would leave that place, you would give up a lot of yourself dependency. You would need somebody else to live with. um And especially when you're older, you would feel like a burden. And I think then for people, they are weighing their options and they're like, I'm old and I'd much rather stick to here, be at my home, in my place that I know, be nobody's burden, be self-dependent, which is the actual absolute essence of freedom, right? um And maybe even going so far as to say, you know, this is about freedom and this is my freedom. This is my place. Nobody's getting me out of here.
00:49:40
Speaker
um So I think I can i can understand why why elder people are looking at it a little different because I hear these stories a lot also with Andriy Dubczyk who I spoke to and I think you know ah he also told me a story like that of ah of a woman in in eastern Ukraine that didn't want to leave and and I hear it so often. And I think I understand that the more I hear those stories, why that is the case. Also, I believe the the image is you know what it brings home to me when I look at it is also that you said it's been rebuilt now, this this whole house, right?
00:50:12
Speaker
but This is this is the the actual atrocity in all of this as well, I believe. During wartime, you cannot really build a future, right? And this is what it's all about, and this is what freedom is also all about, because who knows? You build this, and in two weeks' time, another rocket might hit this building, and it's destroyed again. So you're constantly rebuilding, destroyed, obliteration, rebuilding, destroyed, building. It's like this. So you are never really moving an inch further, um Best of all, you keep it even or it just gets worse and worse and worse. So this is this is the terrible thing when I look at this image is war is destroying your future, your building of your future. and And for me, this is symbolic of that. um Can I ask you when you, when you get to a place like this and you have just heard this, a rocket has hit, where do you get your news and and how do you how do you approach um like a house like this then with with what kind of feeling or is it different all the time?
00:51:10
Speaker
I would say it's well and that's for sure always different i in terms of how you get the news. Sometimes you don't need to get any news. You just see it in front of you literally um when it's got shelling and you just go on a smoke, especially on those first couple of months, even more. I remember when I lived in my friend's place. um Literally the shelling happened 500 meters or 700 meters per mile, so I just saw the smoke. I took a frame of that smoke and jumped out and went to that place. um ah Differently. Sometimes from colleagues we communicate. um Sometimes, as I said, just follow the smoke.
00:51:56
Speaker
and It's also different how you approach these places. It depends where it happened. Sometimes you come and it's a small residential house, like an outside key. And we definitely, you first of all, you need to approach it with all fully respect to to those who were there in that house, leaving. They can be alive or they can be injured, they can be dead. it's It all depends, but no matter what, if if by everything is fine, the the owners of the house survived or injured you, first of all, you just quietly enter and if you see you can take photos of your approach, you ask. you know the main The first thing is respect and dignity for those people.
00:52:47
Speaker
And then come come comes the work. So yes, all the things. Sometimes they happen like this residential big building, you just come and you see it. And the best what you can do is just start working. And if needed, maybe you can help people, those who have a credit that you're there. And the main thing for you is to recommend this.
00:53:12
Speaker
I think When you speak of dignity, this is um this is something that is very much part of the next image. um I've read what you wrote about this particular photo. um We see a soldier kneeling besides the coffin of his dead brother, I believe. If I remember correctly. His father. His father. and two priests that are standing next to him. And what I read about this image, first, please take us a little bit through that moment, um if you if you will, and also what you said about dignity, because it is an image that keeps its distance. And I think that is very important, and I do actually believe that it makes that image also that much stronger. So, um yeah, please tell us what we're seeing and and why you took this image.
00:54:02
Speaker
Yeah. Actually, it was the same day. Basically, you can see you what's what's happening here. It's 15 March, same as that shelling photo, which I put in the selection. The destroyed house. Yeah. Yes. Yes. It's the same day. um That, I can say, was the first funeral. I covered it during the full-scale invasion of Russia. At that time it was really hard to find ah and and for also security reasons, it just just was was hard to find that. And here I met, I saw soldiers gathering. We went to with some colleagues to the crematorium.
00:54:49
Speaker
and And I saw soldiers gathering, so I thought that might be a a funeral ceremony for or some killed soldier. And I thought this ah it's important to to show that those first weeks, I think it's important to show what's the toll cost. like you know civilians and soldiers who are most of them at that time, they just two took weapons. They'd never been soldiers. They just took weapons and went to to defend ah their cities. And I met Jaroslav. I was ah
00:55:26
Speaker
a son of of of of his a late father for for for whom funeral was, I asked him if if he doesn't mind if I ah come and take the photos of that to show to show this protest, to show that Ukrainians are dying soldiers. He was really open open to me. He allowed to take photos. um he He understood the importance of what what I'm doing and he kindly allowed me to to be in this and this process. It was really a small process, really fast. He came from, ah basically he came from just totally to say bye to his father and get back to his positions. His father was killed.
00:56:20
Speaker
um key region, both of them were soldiers. At least the moment he says his final goodbye to him. um i really I really appreciate what he allowed me to be a witness in that moment.
00:56:38
Speaker
it's it's it's It's very hard for me to swallow, you know, when I look at this to think that um you have just lost your father um due to this, you know, atrocity of a war to this invasion and um you are upholding your freedom, you know, your your democracy, you are doing everything you can and your dad dies defending that, everything that you both believed in. And then you just have this tiny little opening in time to say your goodbyes and head back to the front to continue the work that he was doing as well, I believe. But um to have such a short moment of goodbye and in such a in such a tragic setting is is um is is horrible. And this happens every single day. And this is something that we have to be very clear about. And I just have to stress this because you know people that are least affected by the war,
00:57:39
Speaker
Like in Germany, for instance, you know, everybody's crying for peace talks and everybody's like, yeah, let's, let's, let's end this. But everybody's turning towards Ukraine to kind of achieve that. You know, Ukraine should kind of be the ones that are are responsible for ah peace in Ukraine. They're not. It's Russia. Nobody else. They brought this war. They want this war, and they want to see Ukraine gone. This is the objection the the objective that they're pursuing. They don't want a free Ukraine. They want it to be part of a Russian Federation again, and there's no other way about it. so
00:58:12
Speaker
When I see this image, this brings this home to me, and I also want to make this clear to everybody who is listening to this, that peace cannot come from Ukraine. Peace is and entirely something that ah that has something that is the responsibility of Russia alone and nobody else. All that you are doing in Ukraine is defend your freedom and your democracy. um And this image is very haunting and very, very tragic to me because it shows something that happens on such a large scale every single day.
00:58:47
Speaker
And it's the price is the price what what people in Ukraine pay, and the and the highest price you know in the world, you can say, human's life. so yes you know Children bury their parents, often it's opposite. Parents bury their children. And that it just you know it's unimaginable in 21st century that we have such war like that. And Ukraine, what Ukraine is doing, people are defending themselves, defending their their right to exist simply, their right to to to live in their country. um It's just simple. People just want peace in their country, Ukraine. that that's That's it. Yes. It's a basic human right. It's nothing else.
00:59:42
Speaker
I also just want to say I believe, and this is to have this with dignity again, your choice of perspective um is is I think really one of dignity. You are not um sensationalizing in it any anyway. You're not close. You're not trying to show something. um Up close, um you give the whole scene its space um to unfold and also the privacy um and contemplation that it needed. So um it's a very, very strong image. and And thank you for sharing that with us today.
01:00:20
Speaker
um Image number six, what we see is a father with a smile hoisting a child over a fence into the expecting arms and hands of a woman. And you know, you see another probably girl, I would say, I don't know why I'm standing next to the woman to receive the child. What is going on here? Roman, why did you take this picture and why did you choose it for today's podcast? That's ah to show, you know, for some people, this war takes their lives. For some people, this war ah put apart families. When women with children, they leave, men are staying here, we can see it's
01:01:14
Speaker
It's European, ki key region. When when all the Wucha was already at that time occupied, Russians were trying to get into European, the heavy fights were happening there. And here is a train station. And and that train station, evacuation train comes to take elderly people, women and children, men are staying. So here it's His father,
01:01:46
Speaker
um Oleg, he passes his son to to his wife. He tries to be calm and, you know, to show some that his confidence. ah His son is crying. And because yeah his wife with his son will leave soon taking a train and he will stay in an inner pin. men were not taken so that's kind of symbolic moment for for hundreds and thousands of Ukrainian families torn apart at that time yes that the families were torn apart um yeah now we have we have the same maybe a bit in different way but you know Ukrainian soldiers they're going to the front they're leaving behinds often their children their families
01:02:40
Speaker
So that's to me the photo which shows this war and it's worse when when families are torn apart.
01:02:51
Speaker
Yes. And like you said, in the thousands, ten thousands, and what strikes me about this image, and I also read you ah ah your your your commentary on it, is Oleg is his name, I think, right? Yes. Father is Oleg. so like His facial expression and maximine um ol like facial expression is is one of confidence. You said he tried. Now obviously this is an image, so it's just a moment in time. I don't know how ah you know he was able to maintain it, but it is just amazing how he did it like to have this to be to be exuding this calm.
01:03:30
Speaker
this confidence and almost this, this happiness to project onto his family. Everything is going to be fine. Everything is going to be all right. Don't worry. We're going to see each other in a few weeks or in a few months. Whereas his wife sure knows the truth is not as clear cut as that, but nonetheless, he did it. And, and, and it just shows the spirit of him in such a magnificent way, I believe. And I think it's such a strong image, such a strong image. yeah was moments I mean, he was I chat with him at that moment. remember it was you know like the he When he passed his past already his son to to his wife, they would keep chatting through the fans.
01:04:14
Speaker
And during, if there is any explosion, so something start more heavily, they will sit together and he try to, you know, still hug them kind of to protect them. That was also a really touching moment. Yeah, that's, that was the reality of it. of families next picture that you selected for us Roman is some in butcher 7th of April 2022 I think really most of us have heard about butcher we know what happened in butcher
01:04:49
Speaker
um One of the greatest atrocities in during the invasion um that were committed. I think it's safe to say it was a mass slaughter of, ah you know, suburban Ukrainian civilians um that was committed there. um What we see is a very dark image with dark body bags that are obviously filled with dead bodies.
Documenting Atrocities in Bucha
01:05:16
Speaker
um I want to, before we go into what we see and you that the image itself, what was it like for you when you heard what was going on in Bucher and you actually made the trip there? like What was going through your mind?
01:05:32
Speaker
I don't know. I think Bucher is... I think it's just the worst, which you can imagine.
01:05:42
Speaker
what could happen. Simply the question was why and what for? You can't even understand this, even if you try to understand from military angle. Whatever you try to understand, it's just atrocity, tortured people, raped, killed, people on the street. It was just You don't understand from where the these this comes like, why? What what does it make? You know like it's completely like you just you feel it's unreal, um completely unreal, some surreal situation. so that's just that There was a cemetery where those people who were found all around Buccha,
01:06:35
Speaker
and their apartments, on streets, in some small graves or in some pits, I don't know, everywhere. Literally, they were like bodies all around that town. um and And civilians, just stressing that again. No no soldiers or anything like that. Civilian people living there, going about their lives, yes. Yeah, those are civilians, 99%. those civilians, those old civilians, they were on the streets, some on a bicycle, some were in their apartments, were killed. I was completely a surreal thing, which I never thought that that can happen in the 21st century. It's just a beastiality. Yeah.
01:07:27
Speaker
yeah yeah So that's what when the Russian army left Buche. I mean, when I work in that area before, like near Buche, we were in the European, right? We often heard there shooting some explosions, you know? i mean And some people managed to to escape from there, which I remember I photographed. But at that time, you couldn't even imagine what's happening there. You couldn't. um
01:07:59
Speaker
Yeah, I imagine you just heard some stories. People were telling before how they were lucky to escape ah when other car got shot, their car was second. They they were lucky just to drive past to but by some miracle. um Yeah, those people who couldn't escape or who stayed there thinking that, you know, I don't know, Russia will leave it. so But literally it was just a hell.
01:08:32
Speaker
You have now this was 7th of April. You said, um, yeah so roughly six weeks, I think after you arrived, let me just do my maths March, April. Yeah. Like five, five, six weeks after you arrived. Five weeks. Yeah. Yeah. Um, what, what had been, no, let's just quickly, what had these five weeks been for you until then? Was it like a breathless, like running from one thing to the next to just document everything that was going on? Where were you also personally at that moment in time before you also then, you know, got to butcher and you saw all of that? Where were you emotionally at that time?
01:09:13
Speaker
Or is there no time to think even, to to, you know, you're so absorbed by everything that's going on around you? I think you you you think more when you, especially with these atrocities, right? um You definitely when you're there, you just stand on what happened. But I think you start thinking more and more like when you go through these photos, when you see these photos. um That's when you get even more affect, you think it just, because you have your already time like to to think more more through that, what you went through. When you, you know, moving all around, at that time, I remember I came back, I came to Bucia, came back to Kyiv from Harkiv.
01:10:02
Speaker
I was in Harkiv working in there. ah So those first five weeks were you know completely, as you said, nonstop ah running all over, shelling with military you go visit, you go then somewhere else, ah bomb shelters. So basically it was like a nonstop and non stop running. As I said, it was like a nonstop for me work for like over a half a year. So, um yeah, so you think more about those moments, I think later, and especially with butcher when when you just go through your photos, because you know sometimes, at least for me, sometimes it's a bit as a shield. Probably if I was just a you know a civilian who visit all of these places,
01:10:56
Speaker
that would stand you right when you see it completely that you couldn't even, I don't know, move. But when you know why you're there, when you understand that your your goal, your job is to record this, to document this, to show it later, right? So like you have a purpose of being there and not just as ah as a passerby. um So that hit you probably later even like um when you start seeing whats what just happened in there. It hit you there as well, but I think the most the strongest way is when you start seeing your photos, start seeing what atrocities happened there. That's the most when you start feeling what just craziness was there.
01:11:47
Speaker
I think what you are saying is is something um incredibly valuable because it shows me one thing and and this is kind of also where this podcast ties in. If you are creating something to be active about something rather than just passive, it gives you self-empowerment again. I think that is what ah you also mean by that. When you have a camera, it gives you a purpose. And in that sense, it gives yeah it gives everything that you do a kind of a value, no matter what you turn your attention to, whether it's something good or bad, but you have a purpose and therefore also direction. And you're not just um a a driftwood of fate, if you will, right? this was This was the reason also why I created this podcast, for instance, because I was so shocked by by this invasion and it it it really... it's um
01:12:41
Speaker
emotionally did so much to me that I had to do something about it. I had to do something about it rather than just sit there and watch the news. And that gave me some so form of empowerment again as well. And I think that is so incredibly important. But I also heard that it was very, very difficult to to bury people at the time in Butcher because it was so many um in in a short period of time. Were there any challenges like that? I mean, it was all taking in time, you know, did you it was really a long process as well to identify people. Some was harder to identify, some was possible. And if I find the relatives, lots of, you know, maybe people left, sometimes entire families were gone, killed, right? So um they were buried, yeah, they were buried later.
01:13:33
Speaker
ah During the time, I also, there were some identified people, right? And I was at these kind of funerals, more like a mass funeral, also in Bucher. It was like in May, I think. So those who couldn't be identified, they were buried with just, you know, numbers. Unfortunately, I mean, because they they couldn't find relatives. But the main problem at that time, yeah, just for people to come, to to to to bury their relatives. I had one story that oh I was taking the photos of these, of the victims, and you know, there they did the
01:14:24
Speaker
the the police, the medics, the investigators, they were there, they were checking on bodies. and and I too and remember I took a photo of of of a man, young man, and I just remember because his documents were laying on his body, so it was easier to identify because some people, they didn't have documents then, that's much more problematic for us. So I remember I took this the photos, and the next day, they were like some relatives came.
01:14:59
Speaker
and they start looking for for his son. and And she showed me the whole room and she was crying. I came, I asked what happened and she said, she's looking for her son. and And she showed me the photo. of his, I think she showed him his driver license or the passport. I think it was also driver license. so and i I don't know how, but i just it it came up in my mind that I saw this document on one of the bodies. I told her, I think probably, ah probably i so because she couldn't find her son.
01:15:39
Speaker
And I thought, probably I saw it. Let me, you know, if I said, if you want, I can check. And we went with her to to my car to to to go through, to open laptop to check these photos. And I just was thinking that that's the moment when she can find out that that was and was her son. um We found those photos. The documents were correct, so the documents that laid on his body and she was showing me on the photos, they were exactly the same.
01:16:18
Speaker
um Partly, they recognized that they were also her husband, the father of the man. They recognized him, but at some point they also said, no, it doesn't look like him, no. Again, that could be a denial. and And we just agreed that I will send these photos to them so that later it will help them to to find. So at that moment, I like clearly could think that, unfortunately, that's that's that was her side. I sent her those photos.
01:16:53
Speaker
after and, well, as much as I hope that she found her son safe and the alive, I thought that that's that was her son. So, yeah, that's that's how it was happening, how with people finding there their relatives at that time.
01:17:12
Speaker
and bo that
01:17:16
Speaker
That's unimaginable for me and um and yeah and but I can't possibly begin to express um how dark that is. um But because it is. I think the next image is an image that is also taken in Butcher and an image that at least gives us and a feeling of of hope, at least of human warmth, of um two people embracing each other, two women, um seeming incredibly relieved and happy to see each other. um And this is also the image that won you the award
01:18:00
Speaker
um in 2024. So please tell us a little bit more about um about this image. um What led up to it as well a little bit, maybe a little bit around it, how you how you saw this out of your perspective and what is happening there. Yeah, and this is one of the i sorry for this image is one of the lucky happy moments ah that could happen in butcher at that time. So that relatives find out that their relatives are safe and alive. Now what happened here, it's two sisters and he's the one in the in the indeed
01:18:45
Speaker
in the jacket who who hugs her sister is Vladislava. So she she found out that her sister in their lightjacket and the the two sisters. You can also see in red jacket, since it's a child, but these two sisters, here we we see the meeting of two sisters. And Ladislava, in light jacket, she hugs her sister. they Both of them were residents of Bucia. And they were all they lived through that occupation, and they didn't see each other for over 40 days.
01:19:23
Speaker
And at the moment when they finally met each other first, they didn't have a communication at that time. They live in different parts of Bucia, so they just to understand how life in Bucia was. they They couldn't leave their places. Obviously, it was dangerous to move around the city, to move. anywhere because as you see, yeah many that's how many people were killed. Some just simply on a street, riding on a bicycle, some just walking or trying to get some food. People were locked in their places for over a month.
01:20:01
Speaker
in butcher. and So that's the moment they they finally met each other when Russians left butcher. And that's the happy moment they found each other that both of them are safe and alive.
01:20:18
Speaker
it's nice It's nice to look at this relief. you can You can feel it. It's so palpable also in this image, like the the the horror, the shock, but then also the relief of knowing that the sisters are alive and well and and that they made it through this this terrible time. It's a great image it's you know and and it is as equally butchers as all the rest that we have just discussed as well. There is hope where there's darkness always. um That's why these images I think together are incredibly strong.
01:20:59
Speaker
Picture number nine, you took on the 24th of November, 2022 in Gerson. Gerson, I believe, is everything I know ah i know about Gerson is an amazing city because of how it fought the Russian occupation like so forcefully with like a popular movement that was gathering there. there's There's a great film that I forgot the name of now, a great documentary exactly about that time. um I will link to it in the show notes though. um The spirit of this place is absolutely amazing. So we see a lady almost entirely engulfed in darkness with a candle, and it looks to me a bit like a shrine lighting a candle.
Resilience Amid Occupation
01:21:41
Speaker
ah What's going on here, Roman? What are we seeing?
01:21:44
Speaker
Yeah, that's so and's a really nice elderly woman whom I met in her zone when I came um after the the town was freed from Russians, part of it, when Russians left. And so she lived with ah with her son through the entire ofcc occupation. And I met her simply on the street. yeah I remember I was driving past and I saw an old lady trying to chop some wood.
01:22:17
Speaker
As you imagine that time, her son had no electricity, no water, ah because when Russians were leaving the city, they destroyed everything completely, the whole system. um So literally, they were like she was she was trying to chop some wood. And I saw it was a big, big branch. And and I just looked at it and thought how she's going to even carry that, how she's going to to to chop it, how she's going to, you know, like, and I just stop and I want to help her. I took one frame of her doing that and I just offered her my help. and And after helping her, we just start chatting with her and she invited me to her place.
01:23:04
Speaker
um i was with my with one of a producer, a fixer who was helping me there. And she was really kind to invite two men to her place, kind of like, okay. And she didn't have much food. And she wanted to make the moment. Two young men as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's like, you know, and at that time when everyone, you know, suspicious, you I know about everything, was with they just went through such a long occupation. my with one of You know, you don't know who are those people.
01:23:37
Speaker
you you know But she was really kind and well, I tried just to to help her simply over my kinds. Can I help you? Can we care? And she was, no, no, no, I can carry, but we help her to to chop that wood. And she invited us for for to her place to see how she lives. And then she starts cooking a dinner. And I knew that she doesn't have much water, doesn't have much food, but she really was saying, join us for dinner. And and I just felt that...
01:24:15
Speaker
you know ah It was really important for her to treat us dinner, yeah you know that us joining that dinner. And I felt at the same time, I felt like ah we shouldn't take that you know dinner because she doesn't have no enough food, water. But at the same time, I felt like that's you know, gives you her such, I don't know, inspiration and happiness, small moment like that, that we join her in that table show. That's the moment when she was preparing cooking dinner for herself, her son, and which we often join as well when she invited us. and She was really kind, this old lady is speaking about her time. During the occupation, we spent lots of time chatting and
01:25:07
Speaker
And yeah, she lived in that part of her song, which after ah for sure was... when Kahovka down destruction happened, that whole area where she lived was flooded. So obviously she had to she escape with her son from that area. But I just remember how warm she was, how nice shouting about all of that hard time. And at the time we, and all this evening we hear that explosions and
01:25:40
Speaker
Yeah, how she was explaining, saying what they went through during that occupation time. um So yeah, I just just, you know, that photo reminds me about how people in general in Ukraine, and I met hundreds of hundreds of people, they simply just so genuine, they simply just so open to strangers to, you know, you they like join us for food, they don't have enough food, but they want to also share a meal with them, um how in general, yeah, genuine Ukrainians are.
01:26:16
Speaker
So that was the the the nice moment. With her, when we were leaving, we had some water in the car, some some food in the car. We we gave all to her, sometimes just keep some... Because water, it's the essential, the you know drinking water for that time. um So, yeah, that was that moment really. When I see that photo, like I just always think about about her at that moment. She's so small, how he's trying to chop that big branch.
01:26:49
Speaker
branch of wood and I'm like, oh, the people in Ukraine are just so strong in all ways so and kinds. So yeah, that's the moment which I always, when I look at that folks, I remember that really nice warm moment with her in chat.
01:27:10
Speaker
It's very beautiful to see your face remembering this as well because it it just yeah it just carries what you are saying. it's so It's so genuine. It's so real. It's so wonderful. um And it really touches me to see you and also to tell the story. And it is something that I also share in my experiences. You know, when people face the utmost advert at adversity, A lot of the times, the best side comes out. um And I believe it's very often a testament to the human spirit. I do believe that we believe human beings are generally not good. I think there is this tendency to think that because of all the terrible things that are going on in the world. But I nonetheless believe the opposite is true because I've experienced it so many times. um Being um you know on the refugee trail in Europe, for instance, I've been in in camps
01:28:01
Speaker
where people had nothing and they shared their last little bite of bread with me. um and it was and and Like you, I first always didn't want to take it because I felt this is not mine to take. I can leave this place whenever I want to. I am the privileged person here. But I also realized that sharing something can, for one thing, give you this feeling of of authority in the best sense, self-dependence, that I can cater for me and somebody else that I value. And it feeds people's hope as well, because when you no longer share anything anymore,
01:28:39
Speaker
than it is when you have really given up. So I believe this is this is um something that I have experienced, and this is a perfect example of that, and I believe that we find so many of these stories along the way, if we allow them to happen and if we maybe think of human beings as more than you know the sum of all parts in in the sense of what we see politically ah in the world, because that's not all of us, and and we are we um much, much more than that. So this is a very beautiful image and really so beautiful to see you your face light up when you talk about her. What is her name? Do you remember her name? Svetlana. Yeah. Svetlana. I hear you said, yes. Svetlana. Well, greetings and kisses. Yeah. All right. Greetings and kisses goes to Svetlana today um and for making this young man's face ah light up like this. Amazing. Yeah.
01:29:35
Speaker
um So next image was taken in Genevieve and this is also again going from Svetlana to this is a very difficult transition. um We see a small girl in an open casket and her mother sitting next to her crying, devastated.
01:30:06
Speaker
What happened and um what is the story behind the image?
01:30:16
Speaker
I mean, unfortunately, and how sad it can be, the story is as simple as it can be. um Just another Russian attack. And just here we have ah parents boring their children. It's Olga. She's the mother of six years old, Sophia, ah who died during the Russian shelling on Chernigev. Both of them, they were under shelling. Olga was just more lucky if she just got small injuries, and but unfortunately, her shrapnel killed her daughter.
01:30:59
Speaker
So this is the funeral. This is the funeral of her daughter. I spent so with them all of the funeral because that's the if funeral ceremony was in church first. And then they went to another town. um to They were like two or three hours drive after to bury her daughter. um Olga allowed media to be there. um And I went through from the beginning to the end to the end of this funeral. And I mean, in the end, what what happened, I just, you know, sometimes it's hard to, you see its if it makes sense to approach a person who is in grief to
01:31:53
Speaker
you know, to to to to say, to prepare your condolences, you know. And sometimes you feel it's better not to disturb. In that case, I felt like um thats I just wanted to to to to give a hug to Olga after the funeral was over. um And then she said the strong words at that moment. She just said, you know, she said, show it to the whole world. what happened to what's happening in Ukraine, what happened to my daughter. It was such a strong war that's that I was, you know, that that's what it is. And yeah, so that's that's basically yeah what's happening. They say what's happening to Ukraine on a daily and a daily basis.
01:32:48
Speaker
Does it sometimes also help you to get this kind of affirmation from the people you photograph? Because I know it from me, sometimes I, you know, not that I've ever been in as extreme situations as you have, so no comparison, but I have been in situations where I also, where things were really haunting me and were difficult for me to to um to come to terms with um and where you question then the purpose, like you said earlier, and whether what you are doing, the value of it all and stuff. Do you have that and do these affirmations also help when the people you portray and photograph give you that kind of affirmation?
Ethics in War Photography
01:33:32
Speaker
Yes, for sure. that's that's That's why we are
01:33:36
Speaker
That's why we are doing this, right? To to show all of that what's happening, what atrocities are happening. And if a person who's been photographed or who is a relative photo of of that person understands that and it says it to you, it makes, it empowers you, it gives you power to keep going because what we are doing is is to show to the whole world to to bring that attention. And if person understands that and says, you know, that words were like, I mean, I can say people usually don't say exactly like that. Often they can say, yes, please, please, photographer show it. But he or she just clearly said, please show it to the world, like you press show it.
01:34:22
Speaker
I was like, yes, that's that's that's what we want to do. So that gives you gives you power to keep going, um to keep working. And especially, yes, when you cover such events as funeral or other events where human drama happening, where a tragedy happening. so Oh, as I said, yes, the first is respect and dignity. That's the rule. um Sometimes people say they don't want to to be photography, which is, I also can understand that for for many, for different reasons. You know, and you respect that as well, and then you
01:35:09
Speaker
There is no rule you can take a photo like that. For me, it's if someone tells me no from relatives, from the people they say, please don't photograph, I would never take a photo, just put the camera down. And and if I can, then I just stand there and pay attention to disease, pay my respect to disease person, but just attend that funeral.
Purpose and Empowerment
01:35:34
Speaker
um But yeah, it's important for this kind of event to have have all respect and you can photography relatives allow you to do that and even understand why you're doing this. That's important. So for sure. And if someone tells you, please do it, please show it, that gives you all power and you you just feel happy that people understand the purpose why you're doing. Because, you know, sometimes people
01:36:04
Speaker
Those who don't understand, they also can say, you know, ah why do they sometimes people in person? Why are you doing this? this is What's the purpose of that? but Definitely, that's that's that said, you try to explain something to people. People don't understand you. Especially in these events, you don't need to argue with anybody. You can't change their mind. If you can't change their mind, then that's it. You just stop doing that. You don't need to provoke them to make any conflict. There is no point of that. So, yes, it gives you huge power when you understand that people know why you're doing this.
Emotional Weight of Photography
01:36:41
Speaker
Because for photographers, it's not a pleasure, you know, to do this, to photograph this. When some people say, why are you taking these photos? It's like, you know, some people can say, oh, you photography, you enjoy this, or, you know, they and and then you feel less divorced, or you can hear from some people.
01:36:59
Speaker
because that's not what we want to photograph or we want to see or that's not what I can't understand, can't imagine that someone who does that can, you know, that's the the pain as well as photographers and also human beings, you know, they, I'll have human, they collect these emotions. So yeah, that's really, that's when she told me that I felt like so relieved to be honest, that because I spent lots of hours at the time with them. As I said, first, I've been around the church, then three hours we were driving to the cemetery and then there, and then you see all of that. So that's really gives you a power to keep keep doing this.
Balancing Objectivity and Sensitivity
01:37:45
Speaker
I think you know this is what i've I've also feel in your image is all that you've just said because um you know there are also people that believe and you know the objectivity of ah photojournalism should kind of prevent you from engaging too much with your subjects you know because you're there to observe, not to influence. um and I find that very difficult sometimes. To some degree, I i believe it's you know it's true, but on the other hand, um it is something that is very contextually based. Who do you see? What situation do you find yourself in?
01:38:23
Speaker
What kind of imagery are you producing and and what are you showing? and and And that is such a complex thing that it is ah really a big ethical undertaking as well, photography, I believe, and it should be. and I believe photographers should not make it too easy on themselves either to just say, I'm documenting reality here, so that in itself is the purpose and I don't care what how I influence the people around me or the people that I'm photographing.
01:38:55
Speaker
and And this is what you are doing, I think, in ah in a fantastic way, in a marvelous way. You ask yourself that question constantly, I believe. ah You are constantly checking in with yourself, with your subjects, and making a call on situation to situation. Um, and contextually every time again, without a set direction, it has to happen this way, but with a very, with a lot of sensitivity towards what you're doing. And I, I couldn't comment that higher, to be honest with you. And you're doing this very consciously as well. I believe you are really like, this is, I believe something that you ask yourself all the time. Right.
01:39:39
Speaker
Yeah, thats that's that's the most important thing. In our job, we we are photographers, but first of all, we are humans, right? so we all respect, dignity to those, especially in this kind of situation, we need to photo come second for me in that case, if like that funeral, let's say if she would tell me, please don't take photo, I would never take single photo because and for me, the her choice, her dignity, to let her say her final goodbye to her daughter, that's the most important. Then if she allows
01:40:21
Speaker
I said, thank you. I said, thanks for understanding. And then I can just walk. So I think that's, it just simply, I think there has to be like that. Because it's not like you take a photo of a person riding a bicycle on a sunny day when everyone happy. That's completely different situation. And yes, you need to always, before doing something, you need to be sure that the person who is a photographer, he doesn't mind that.
01:40:54
Speaker
Yes, I couldn't agree with you more. um that's That's a very interesting topic that you could also write books about, because I believe a lot of photojournalists also wouldn't agree with you necessarily in what you're saying now. But I do believe that um that this is the only way to do it. And and really, i I have so much respect for you too to do it like this. And I feel that in your images. And I think they actually make them even even stronger.
01:41:20
Speaker
Um, so, um, next image, um, in Sahalt Sea village in Kyiv region on April 22nd, 2023. Um, yeah this is a lot of people and they, uh, before I get into the analysis of this image too much, I think you started with it. What, what do we see? Why did you pick this image for us?
01:41:47
Speaker
Just to show how Ukraine, Ukrainians are strong.
Community Response and Resilience
01:41:53
Speaker
um how you know This is the photo shows that this the young volunteers from Yoruba group. They help residents to you know to clear the rubble of their destroyed house. which was destroyed um by the war. So they organized themselves. Sorry, just just quickly, because it looks it it looks actually like an open field when you look at the image with just a wall standing there, right? You wouldn't imagine that this was someone's home. this is this is I just wanted to make sure that people understand that, yes, that the the sheer force of destruction that must have rained here. Yeah, sorry, now carry on. Yeah, that's was that was the home to some people. and
01:42:41
Speaker
In Kyiv region, we had lots of villages like that completely ah ruined by Russian war. So that's what after when Russians left from there those territories that were occupied, ah many people just, you know, were left with their houses. Well, it's hard to call a house. It's basically rebels. which were left from their house. So young people, lots of young groups were organizing and often on weekends or even longer they were going, they were planning, okay, this time we take these 10 houses, for instance, and they were coming and they were cleaning completely because then
01:43:25
Speaker
at least people can start in order to rebuild. Some organization of volunteers also later was also helping to build. So they first cleaned the area from the rubble, helped the residents with that, and then they start helping with the building. So here we see young people just came on their free day to to help to help those residents to to start with the rebuilding of their destroyed house. so For me, it's just symbolic to show how you know how Ukrainians respond to this. They don't give up. They don't say, well, it's all destroyed. Okay, well, let's Let's just wait when the war is over. What's the point to rebuild? They just come, they quickly start you know cleaning the area, then helping to rebuild and that people can get back to their, how to say, to normal life, but at least to to to to the life, at least having their new home, new place.
01:44:28
Speaker
yet still during the war time, that but you know at least to get back their life and have the place where they can live. The solidarity, I believe, is something you really feel in this in this image and and it's striking. so ah Thank you for sharing that.
Sergei's Story of Survival
01:44:48
Speaker
Thanks. Now, the next image on 1st of August, 2023 in Kiev, we see a man that's lying under, it it looks like like a surgical light in ah in an operation room. um and ah And I think a nurse with a laser is ah is going along some of the scars on his chest. um is this Am I giving the ah the the right context for the image? What what what what is happening here?
01:45:25
Speaker
So, yeah, it's another side of the war and that now it's becoming also a big and big issue and and a big thing for u Ukraine, it's rehabilitation. So here we see a man, Sergei, so he is undergoing the the the free um the free program for like a scar, you know free laser procedure to reduce his scars. um It's ah the program called Neopalemia Unburns. So, yeah, so that's the process. he a soldier?
01:46:03
Speaker
um No, he's a soldier. no yeah He's civilian. So his story is is that it's is sad. um He's civilian and at the beginning of the war, the ah the first days of the war, he and his family, his wife and daughter, they yeah they escaped towards towards a Chernobyl era to some village where they thought they can you know like They can wait safely there or they evacuated from the big city, um from Kiev. But then they realized that that area is going under occupation. And at the time when they were trying to to leave that area, he was driving with his in their car with his wife and daughter of their car, drove over an anti-tank mine, most likely, and the car exploded.
01:46:59
Speaker
um So, his wife died, unfortunately, and he and his daughter, they survived. But as you can see, he was he was heavily injured by that explosion. So, yeah, that's time after, you see, now he's trying to to to reduce these scars. He was really nice, open man. We had a nice chat with him. He you know like told you all of the story. And when you hear this story, you just feel it's hard to imagine through what he went through, imagining that you know explosion, how he lost his wife. His daughter was there. Luckily, they survived. But it's just hard to imagine what he went through.
01:47:52
Speaker
And how he was feeling the moment he was smiling after me he told me that story. And he was you know saying that, yes, but I want to get back to life. I had my daughter and you know I want to work. And you know how he was motivated and inspired. um Basically that I can say the other angle of Ukraine where you can see people, how they're strong. in all ways, even if their body is shattered, their mind is shrunk. So, yeah, to me, after I went to talk to him, it was such an inspiration. The way how he keeps going and and keeps living, that shows a lot. Inspirational. yeah Yeah. Yeah. Yes. You know, the reason why I
01:48:47
Speaker
I wanted to have this conversation with you as well today. I mean, amongst many, many other things, but there's also always so much abstraction in talking about a war. Um, you know, there's metrics and measurements involved in it, like how many, you know, rounds of ammunition, also how many people have died. Um, how many rockets were fired? But that's abstraction. That's numbers. What we very often statistics, but human beings are not statistics. Exactly. Every single human being that is lost because of this war is a tragedy. It's a drama. August's daughter did not have to die. Nobody had to die. All the stories you've told us today was entirely unnecessary. Nothing prompted this. And it didn't have to be. And we're talking about single individual
01:49:45
Speaker
deaths that all had a family, that all had a life to live for, that had a future ahead of them, and that were taken out of this life from one moment to the next. And this is the actual tragedy of the war in Ukraine, of this egregious war that Russia is fighting. um And this, your images make that very clear and bring that home. It gives it that personal, that human ah view and perspective that is so often lacking in our trying to understand what is going on in Ukraine. And for that already, I want to thank you very much, Roman.
01:50:22
Speaker
That's what we need more of. And that's why what you do and your work is so important. um And that's why I'm so glad that you have gotten the recognition that you also deserve over the last months, years. Image number 13.
Rehabilitation and Recovery
01:50:39
Speaker
In Kiev, we see a soldier um that is sitting on a horse. um and And like sitting on, actually leaning on that horse, lying on that horse almost. then And hugging the horse. And even though the face is not looking straight at camera, you see that he is having fun. He's enjoying it. He's feeling some closeness, tenderness. That's the word I was looking for. Tenderness is in the image. Exactly.
01:51:07
Speaker
Yeah. yeah it's ah It's a hippotherapy. So it's another part of rehabilitation. know There is a physical part, but there is a men ah mental rehabilitation, which is really important. And many people, ah especially soldiers and civilians, they need that. So that's one of the parts of rehabilitation is hippotherapy at one of the therapy center in Kiev. where soldiers came to to attend that therapy, a group of soldiers, ah they just just came. And you you could see, like I was from with them from the beginning till the end, you can see how their mood even even changed. i mean
01:51:50
Speaker
There were some soldiers that obviously it's not for everyone, right? it's The race of rehabilitation, especially mental, is different, right? So for someone that could work, for others that doesn't work, but for this particular soldier who was working, he came. they The first day starts you know, coming, approaching horses, they start brushing them calmly. It's kind of a moment of, you know, their kind of connection they find. And then they step by step, they get more connected and they feel, you know, more like relaxed soldiers.
01:52:29
Speaker
And then that's the the process of rehabilitation start. And then they can have some, you know, more like a a nice nice moments to to enjoy. So that's the moment where he gets, you know, at the beginning you see them really tense. are coming and then when they are leaving, you can feel a much more relaxed some of them. That's the moment when he completely left his, you can say, put down his guard and just enjoy that moment and finally could a bit laugh and have this enjoyment too and that's hypotherapy. So yeah, that's a bit nice and enjoyable moment.
01:53:12
Speaker
which are weak yes There were some soldiers that that for them it didn't work. And some when you hear what they went through, they couldn't open. Maybe for them need more time or different ways. But I just wanted to point to point out that especially at this time and the war is he's going to
Rebuilding Amid War
01:53:34
Speaker
you know keep going. Who knows for how long that part of rehabilitation for Ukrainians, military and civilians, it has to be has to be done much more and we need to have more programs. There has to be even even more improved because
01:53:51
Speaker
How to imagine, as you say, statistically, we can just see the numbers, but behind that, every one single person, there is a personal story. And but we have so many people, we have so many people who need that help and and treatment. So that's really important that Ukraine keep keep developing this program and people have place to where they can can find their way to to to find their way of rehabilitation.
01:54:25
Speaker
Rebuilding rehabilitation is ah our keywords, yes. so It's just so incredibly difficult to do this, which brings us almost back to image four, like to rebuild something that is still constantly at the danger of being destructed again. It's so hard, so difficult, and so taxing, so demoralizing, I believe, um because um yeah. it it's it's like It feels like you cannot move forward, I believe. And I'm just guessing. You are living it. You have it every day. I'm just guessing this, right? From the safe distance of my home. um I think we are also just really beginning what PTSD is, like post-traumatic stress syndrome, right? it's um that's That's something that, um you know, after First and Second World War, men were just sent home. And basically, yeah, the war's over now. Good luck with the rest of your life.
01:55:21
Speaker
not realizing that we actually had entirely traumatized societies um and nobody did anything about it. So I believe this is a very important step step and it couldn't be overstated that these programs, like you said, will be incredibly important and should have all the support and also from Europe, ah European Union and whatsoever, um whoever has ah money to spare should invest in this without any shadow of a doubt. But this is a very beautiful image that brings it home very nicely because also it
Defense Efforts and Challenges
01:55:56
Speaker
is one of the images also that is this tenderness um between the horse and the boy or the soldiers is is great.
01:56:05
Speaker
Image number 14. Sapuricia region, January 30th, 2024. First of all, Sapuricia is pretty much the homeland, ah correct me if I'm wrong, of Ukrainian independence. um It's where the Sitch is, right where the where the Cossacks basically had their first independent ah movement under Shmuelnitsky. um And so it has that as a you know as a historical center point, centerpiece. And it also has been in the news because of the nuclear power plant that is there. And that has seen some ah you know terrible approaches by Russia playing with fire, using it as some sort of leverage whatsoever else. So um just so this region, obviously for everybody who doesn't know it, is a very special one.
01:56:57
Speaker
and Here we see two guys standing in a ditch with shovels and ah you know taking um soil out of there, deepening um those ditches. ah What is happening here? that's so that Those soldiers, they're building a defense line. so It's a recent image, um as you said, taken in the end of January this year. So because now Ukraine is on the fence, Ukraine is lacking ammunition, is lacking the fence system, is lacking a lot. So now after that last year when everyone thought some point that, you know, but it's it's hard to imagine that the war can end so easily, right? And that time everyone was thinking that, okay, Ukraine can now with their contra offensive
01:57:51
Speaker
um you know easily ah win this war, which is not true. like Ukraine is a small country and and you know fighting in such a huge machine like Russia. ah it it can't It can't win just by itself. It needs support. It needs support from from Europe, from from the US. s It needs support from the Allies to keep fighting in this war, right at least with ammunition. you know So here is now with Russia is forcing, is advancing, is attacking Ukraine. and And this is the current situation what Ukraine is right now. Ukraine is on defense. Ukraine is no ukraine needs support, more support. Ukraine needs more defense, more weapons. That's what is this about? Now currently Ukraine is just preparing for the defense.
01:58:49
Speaker
And those soldiers, they are they are preparing new lines. the They know that they might have to retreat, and that's the new defense line is being prepared. So yeah, that's that's that's that's the current. If we can describe what's happening right now in Ukraine, I can probably show with this picture and say, that's what's happening. Ukraine is on defense and trying to keep keep their land.
01:59:19
Speaker
You've already mentioned um it is due to a lack of ammunition,
Support for Ukraine's Freedom
01:59:24
Speaker
right? um So this is one of the main ah prerequisites for Ukraine to get a footing again to to stem the the Russian attacks is to get more ammunition, right? This is one of the decisive factors at this point in time during the war. Ammonition, yes. Ammonition support A lot of people, in a way, if we compare to to what how many people Russia has, that's all combined. that's yeah but That but really important part as well is just that you know Ukraine is asking for support, for ammunition, for weapons, to how you can defend the country.
02:00:07
Speaker
Right. So that's that's yeah. And as I said, Ukraine is a small country fighting such a huge machine where there are Prussians, they have more people. They have more manpower, they have more ammunition, they have more money simply right to spend on their army. So that's ah that's what Ukraine found itself right now and on the third year of the war, that they but keep defending. we We keep defending to keep to keep basically our independence. Yes.
02:00:45
Speaker
i want to I want to stress very quickly because I want to make a point of this um because you know there are also those voices ah more and more that say we should not send arms to Ukraine because it will um extend Ukraine's suffering um and it would make the war end and it's better for everybody. um I obviously do not subscribe to that position. I also want to say though that before the war in Ukraine, before Russia's invasion, I was even
02:01:18
Speaker
someone who said, we don't need NATO anymore. you know Let's demilitarize. let's um you know I was a pacifist textbook definition pretty much. um But this war, this invasion has changed everything about that for me. um The reality is a different one. We woke up in a different world, 24th of February, 2022. And to not send arms to Ukraine would be like seeing a bully in the schoolyard beating someone up severely and then asking the little child to just you know give in and best of all, even take away its defenses. This cannot be the way, right? This can clearly not be the way. So in order for us to maintain freedom and democracy for people who choose it, this is the precedence.
02:02:12
Speaker
So if we stop sending arms to Ukraine, we leave Ukraine to their own defenses. We say that freedom and democracy matter nothing to us, and it would set the president also for Russia to continue doing exactly what they are doing now. So in conclusion, sending arms to Russia is the defense of our own freedom and our own democracy. Ukraine are fighting a fight for us, and we should be grateful for that. So just to and bring this home and to make this point very clear, because I hear these voices very often, and I want to just, you know,
02:02:51
Speaker
do away with them a little bit. Do you have anything to add what I've just said? Because you should really have the the the say in this and not me for my safety. Exactly. Exactly. You said completely correct words, completely right words. like Well, I mean, to end the war is not in the hands of Ukrainians. People here, they cannot end the war. What they can do is defend themselves and and and try to keep Russia away from their own land, from their home. They can end the war. Who can end the war is Russia.
02:03:28
Speaker
right so In this case, what Ukraine is defending, and if in Europe, if people would say, well, you guys can end the war, how we can end the war? There is only one way we can end the war, which is give up and be occupied by Russia. That's the only way it can be. Then the war will be over, but is it the way what What Europe wants? I mean, Ukrainians, they don't want this. They don't want it anyway. They prove it. They prove it. If they wanted this way, everything would end first weeks of the war. Russia would invade Ukraine. That's it. But here you see it. Ukrainians got united.
02:04:11
Speaker
all over this problem. They all get united. They start, lots of people, first week they start went fighting. Lots of people make donations, send their money, people coming back to their home country. And Ukraine, throughout these years, people prove that that they deserve to have their independent country. They want this. You know, it's not like that. people here, they don't want this and Europe artificially support this or something like that. Simple answer, people want to live in their own country. It's simple to ask, right? In Europe, people, that's what they are, right? You live in your country, other people in in their country. um There is people understand that Germany here, Italy, then France,
02:05:00
Speaker
people the French, German. That's simply what we want. We want to have our country. We want to live in our country, be Ukrainians, speak our language, learn our history, and and keep developing this 21st century. No one wants the war. That's the time are supposed to be gone. That's just unimaginable. But we can't do anything else but rather defend the defend ourselves. and And that's what we ask for. Please support us in all the ways which possible because it's not only for Ukraine, people doing. um so yeah Unfortunately, we cannot end this war. It's not in our hands. But what people can do, they defend themselves and defend their country. It's independence.
02:05:52
Speaker
Yes. And if people stop fighting for their freedom, then um what else is fighting worth fighting for except if not your freedom, right? so Exactly. exactly Um, so that's why I want to make this appeal, you know, not that I'm in any position to, um, to make these decisions, but my appeal is sent Ukraine, the ammunition and the weapons it needs. And as fast as possible because this will make all the difference in your defense of freedom.
02:06:27
Speaker
um now and also in the long run. So this is my appeal today. no I wish I had more power than just saying this, but um but at least ah we put it out there today. um Image number 15 was taken in Pokurovsk in the Donetsk region, so eastern Ukraine, um the region that's been in this war ever since 2014 already um like remember in the beginning like we said this war did not start in 2022 it began in 2014 which is also very clearly
02:07:07
Speaker
You can see, we can see by that what Putin's long-term agenda is, also freezing the war now where it is, then giving him another eight years again to build up his military more and then to push further. It's happened before, like we know, we should know by now what the incentive is and what is happening um to all those that favor, you know, the freezing of the war as well, which I find this is hard to imagine. So, Donetsk Reason, Pokrovsk, on January 24, 2024, we see a woman holding an infant, a newly born, um in a house, a private house, um with a bed standing on ah on a desk, a tiny little infant bed, and a bed next to it. I think it's quite a small space, I would imagine, by looking at it. um why did you Why did you pick this image and what are we seeing, Roman?
02:08:04
Speaker
I mean, if to talk about this picture, I would say we should see this picture and then the next picture, number 16. Just to give you the difference of this, the first picture we are talking where a a woman, her name is Yule, she holds her newborn daughter Diana. It's in maternity hospital in Pokrovsk and literally this hospital is placed around 30 kilometers from the front line. So you can see
02:08:34
Speaker
that the life is still going on, people live their life, give birth to their children. And then in the other photo you see it's the stabilization point not far from Bakhmout in the near nearest town to Bakhmout. And it's just also, you know, not far from the front. So you kind of see ah two different realities in this. Other photo is where the paramedics trying to ah save a wounded Ukrainian soldier.
02:09:09
Speaker
um it Just to me, it shows you know they all the picture of Ukraine as well, like where you see the people people are not far from the front. They didn't give up. They keep living their life. They try to keep living, to keep living their life. You see this paternity hospital, which still operates. Every time i often that town got shut and you know medical staff keep working, people out there are living their life. So to me, it's quite just symbolic. I thought there's two picture when I look at them, I felt it's quite symbolic. you know like Somewhere near the frontline, there is some people are trying to save their lives.
02:09:56
Speaker
And then in other places, um some near the front line, other people will give and new lives. So it was more like, to me, I would say a symbolic <unk> symbolizing these two photos when I see them together, showing the life in Ukraine.
Life's Dual Realities in War
02:10:16
Speaker
Also, I believe it's it's a very it's it's in its basic also formal aspects. ah They harmonize is maybe not the best word, but they they really speak to each other. ah The one is an inside shot where the sun comes from the outside, shining through the window. You have this outside world that is kind of you know beckoning in. And this other one is, and it's it's bright. You have a bright background. This other image is
02:10:45
Speaker
the medics trying to revive the Ukrainian soldier, it's dark. And you only have this artificial light source that's quite um centralized and where you have a lot of fall off to the sides. So in that sense, they they are also formal opposites of each other, but in that sense, speak to each other. So I i can i can totally see that as well. Even I can totally see that. And um you know, it reminds me of ah of ah of a sentence that in my head now I attribute to Karl Marx, because it kind of fits the bill a little bit and in his philosophy. But the sentence goes, I have to see if it wasn't. I'm not sure. um Everything is pregnant with its contrary. and And I think that's what this image says. And this is also something that we've brushed upon before, also in Barmut, the images that you had.
02:11:35
Speaker
of the many dead on the cemetery there, and then of the two sisters seeing each other. Where there is darkness, there is also hope. And I believe this is the basic condition of ah the human existence to some degree. And your images convey that, they transport that. And that's why there is as much darkness as there is hope. And this is what I find wonderful about your images, because that's that's what makes them truly human and also humane at the same time. So very, very strong diptych there, if if you will, ah that you've chosen there. And that brings us to the last image you selected today, picture number 17 of the IFCA.
02:12:20
Speaker
which we all have heard of in the news lately very much. A lot of fighting going on after Bahrut, I think one of the one of the most um you know fought over ah places, um which has now fallen. Right? um Which brings us also a bit to the trenches again, new defense lines. um We're seeing a soldier in full battle gear leaning against a red brick wall. The sun just striking his face ever so slightly and he looks incredibly exhausted and it feels like it's the first rest that he has had in days and even this one will just be an incredibly brief one before fighting continues.
02:13:05
Speaker
um how How tell us a little more about the image and and and why did you select it? Yeah, so this image has a story. And um so, yeah, this is a Sergei, an infantry soldier. And it's an Abdyivka direction. Abdyivka is already occupied. Again, more and more towns are occupied by Russians, as we don't have enough weapons to defend. Here we have
02:13:38
Speaker
A soldier, a Sergei, he is resting but kind of also preparing to go for to the front. um And i saw I saw them by chance. I was driving past in one of the villages and I saw soldiers preparing something. and And I just was like, wow. And I just wanted to stop and talk to them and maybe take some photos. And they were all really kind and open. You know, they were preparing to go to the front line.
02:14:13
Speaker
and And they were really open to me and I could talk with them. And Sergey was one of these kind of bright men. He kind of like enthusiastic, smile, talk. um You can see this charisma in him. and And then he I was taking photos of him at some point, then other soldiers talking, and then I saw this quiet moment of him taking some you know time to probably just thinking to himself before going on on that dangerous dangerous mission.
02:14:48
Speaker
And then they then they left. Then they left. so I probably spent with them 30 minutes. But I exchanged the contacts with one of their commander. I just wanted to send the photos ah to them. um Because when I talked with them, I just, as I say, was like, randomly I saw them and I said, did you guys, had ah anyone, any media, they're like, no, we never had, and they were so, you know, the the commander and said they they got some boost when they saw they were photographers, and they got even, you know, some boost, some happiness, hey, there is a press, they want to see us how they're preparing. And then they then they left.
02:15:33
Speaker
And the story is, unfortunately, is a bit sad. I got later, this photo taken in April 3rd, so this month, basically, when we... Yeah. Right now, right, in this month. And then this photo was published in a big French media on the front page, in liberation. It was the front page of Sergey on the front page. And I mean, I was just happy, you know, that his photo got published. And I wanted to, I sent it to commander. I wanted him to to show this photo to Sergius and send it to him. Look, he got published. I mean, I'm sure he would be happy. And then the the commander told me that that he is not alive anymore. He got killed.
02:16:27
Speaker
And that's just how it strikes me. just that's That's also, that shows all of this, the war in Ukraine, all of this war people going through, is like today, today's someone alive and tomorrow you can just get the message and it's gonna be said, well, he's not anymore. That's how, you know, I mean, I was just, It was just such a sad moment and I was sure sir he would be happy to see that photo are published, just sure he would be so happy. you know And that's yeah that's the cost ah of war Ukraine pays human lives. So today, someone alive and tomorrow you get the message that
02:17:19
Speaker
that person could killed. So unfortunately, that's a sad story. But that's the reality what people here live every day. And that's why it's so important that you tell that story. Because again, this is happening every single day in the hundreds and the thousands. um and And that is the actual tragedy. There are
02:17:45
Speaker
they're single individuals, single human fates every single time. And and I think that that the the terrible thing also is that you just have no certainties anymore. You have no, um you know, planning probably sounds, becomes something that's redundant because life and what life, the war every single day, basically dictates to you how to you have to live your life and who lives and who doesn't and that I can only imagine must be incredibly terrible for lack of a better word.
Daily Life and Uncertainty
02:18:27
Speaker
That is a very strong image and a very strong story. um umma Thank you very much for sharing that. um And also commemorating Sergei like that in a way also because that's what we're doing here. um And that image gives him that commemoration. And and that he's not forgotten and that you know that all the images all the people in your images, they are not forgotten either. This is also the importance. of doing this, of doing the work that you are doing, the purpose that they serve. Thank you. I have a few more questions if you're up for it. um just um I would first like to know from you maybe what what what's your what are your plans now? what's What are your immediate plans for the next weeks? If there are any, I'm sure there are, but what's what's what's up next for you?
02:19:22
Speaker
i Keep working. you We'll keep covering this war, working on stories and some projects. We'll go to the east at some point as well. um Yeah, that's that's that's why we yeah that's where we are here. So yeah, keep continue covering this war. What's your next stop? Do you know already? Or not yet? Not yet. I mean, I have some stories I'm working on. And and in the East, it depends what's where we, but but yeah, I mean, usually go to Kramators if you know this town.
02:20:06
Speaker
base there and then from there, is from dairy you you work all around the east, the Lonesque region and other regions. So usually Kramatorsk and then from there you you decide. I would also like to know from you, just
02:20:28
Speaker
Let's say Russia will um will get its way. what What would you be most afraid of if Russia were to occupy Ukraine? What is your biggest fear connected with that? Or do you not even want to to think about that? I mean, it's hard just seem to imagine that and definitely you don't want to to think about that. I mean, fear is literally that's what Ukraine is fighting for its existence, right? Though it's hard to imagine literally so many millions they they won't have their own. We have millions of people who are refugees now.
02:21:16
Speaker
And at some point, hopefully, you know they hope to to get back to their homes. There are many people, refugees from occupied territories. But I just don't want can't even imagine that. I don't want to think about that. But imagine that scale. it's Yeah, people fight for their existence. So literally, it's the worst what you can imagine if Russia occupy Ukraine. Um, yeah, yes I can't even imagine that to be honest. Better not then. Better not. And none nor should we, because this must not happen in any way.
Shift in Perspectives
02:22:02
Speaker
Um,
02:22:05
Speaker
i want to i have I think I have a something that also drives me a little bit um in all of this. And you see also the the you know the mortality of things, the the the vulnerability of things every single day during your work. Has it changed the way you think about your own mortality, your own vulnerability by seeing this ah every single day and documenting it? Or is it something you keep outside in a way? What do you mean exactly about all that? No, I mean, if you if you see you know how how
02:22:53
Speaker
um transient life is, how quickly death can occur in a time like this. Does it change the way you think about your own mortality as well? The way you look at life and how? If so,
02:23:12
Speaker
I know. yeah you During the war, I'm sure that, I mean, for all Ukrainians, I can say, I'm sure that you appreciate life more. You appreciate your freedom. You appreciate to be in your country. You appreciate having and in the life because, yeah, that's true. like it' some in the Just in one single, just in one second, everything can disappear. you know so For people in Ukraine, I think it's it's definitely a bit different now how they see the light because they know that it's everything can be just gone in a second. And you never know, right? Because the country under constant shelling, everything can happen. So I think you just appreciate more life, you appreciate
02:24:05
Speaker
What you have now, you appreciate that you because of the Ukrainian army, because of that there is defenders like Serhi and many other who give their lives, many people in Ukraine have their life, we can say more peaceful life, yet still there is so many other shellings and stuff. Because of that, ah Ukrainians can live their life. They they appreciate that more. They cherish their time with their relatives. Because here in this country right now, it's hard to say today you have it tomorrow, probably you won't. And so, for sure.
02:24:46
Speaker
That's just a bit different approach um to the life for for people here. they They appreciate every moment. They know that maybe tomorrow won't happen.
02:25:01
Speaker
so yeah that's
02:25:06
Speaker
All right. I think if I'll answer the question, which is, yeah. No, you did. You you absolutely did. And I think you you you absolutely also answered it in ah in ah in a magnificent way. It is it is exactly that. um And that's that brings us again to everything is pregnant with its contrary, right? um because of this also maybe at the end of the day for some things you will have more appreciation than you had before for them. um And so, yeah yes, exactly it works like life works in mysterious ways in that sense, I believe.
02:25:40
Speaker
um if Now, Justin, this is something I always ask everybody, right? and This also almost brings us to the end of this um this incredible podcast.
National Identity and Unity
02:25:54
Speaker
um Thanks to you, and not anybody else. um like if And this is a very difficult question always because we've been talking about war. We have been talking about loss. We have been talking about death. We've been talking about all these terrible, terrible things that happen on a daily basis um every single day for more than two years now.
02:26:16
Speaker
And I ask it anyway because I do believe, and this brings us again to where there's a lot of darkness, there's also hope. um What opportunities? if any, do you see in this terrible war? And i let me just quickly qualify to also explain a little bit what I mean by this. What we've seen, for instance, is that ever since the invasion happened, the European Union is all of a sudden showing interest in having the Ukraine taken up, being a member state of the European Union. ah Ukraine is now um an aspiring member for NATO, something that Ukraine
02:26:56
Speaker
wanted to have for a long time, wanted to be a part of for a long time, but was always denied it because of Russia's, you know, advances whatsoever. So there are certain things that are happening in all this tragedy and drama that could be construed as something positive. Do you see anything other than what I have just said um that might be an opportunity in all of this?
02:27:26
Speaker
I mean, I think it shouldn't be even a question in the late and long run that Ukraine and European Union and NATO, it shouldn't be even, I wouldn't even call it as opportunities because and Ukraine fighting for it independence, fighting for for Europe, but that just shouldn't be even a question if Ukraine and NATO, NATO and European Union, Ukraine fought this way. So I wouldn't even call this opportunity such a high price paid and with human lives, with what country and its people went through. And it's hard to find any opportunities to be honest in such war. I just can't say any. Probably one can be said it's, you know, this war united people in a way we can say, you know, Ukrainians get
02:28:22
Speaker
get such a strong feeling that we are Ukrainians, we are one nation. you know it's it's It's united people, it shows how strong response of people were to this war, how they were strong and united. um in their ah in their way to defend the country. So I don't know if it can go for opportunity, but I can say what this war brought is that all people got united so strongly and that they're proud that they're Ukrainians.
02:28:56
Speaker
um The rest, I would say NATO, European Union, I would just say it shouldn't be even a question when we talk about that. Ukraine should be in the European Union later, should be NATO. It shouldn't be even a question. Ukraine thought it's where Ukraine proved that. So, yeah, I think. How to find any more opportunities? There is there is no, problem the war is the worst what can just happen. and And I hope that nobody in other countries, in Europe, in anywhere else, else experienced that because it just, there's no opportunities in such wars like that. Closing with the cultural um aspect also, of it this is something I wanted to know from you.
Nature as Solace
02:29:48
Speaker
um What part of Ukrainian culture, and I've i've i've mentioned this before, like gives you solace and and strength. It can be something to eat, it can be a photographer art, anything um that you know symbolizes Ukraine and maybe Ukrainian strength for you.
02:30:08
Speaker
um It's also like you asking this right question and for me this question is actually it's how to to to to reply yes Ukrainian culture but what gives me this this this power and i I was thinking about that question to be honest and I thought what what and then at some point I realized what gives me like and I found it and I don't know if I can put it as a Ukrainian culture, but I can say that Ukrainian nature ah gives me a lot of strength when ah just simply going to Dnipro River.
02:30:44
Speaker
um i'm just really it gives me For me, nature is really important. And I got back from China, right? and and And when I get back to Ukraine, and when now I'm living again in Ukraine, I appreciate a lot nature here. And how, you know, even Kyiv, even big cities, they're so green. They they they just, you feel that nature. and So for me, I think in Ukraine, I found that nature, I really love nature here. I just love the mountains here, I love the forest, the Mipro River, and it gives me such peace when I'm like in... in a state of mind when I just need to relax, just take a break. For me, nature is there is the answer. and And I found here, nature is just soul gives me power here. So for me, I would say it's Ukrainian nature. That's what what gives me here. That's fantastic. you know that
02:31:46
Speaker
There's no wrong or right answer here anyway at all. So it's just just interesting for me But do you have if I may ask do you have a like a specific area in Ukraine as well? Where you where you really enjoy them? I mean you said the the the river um but real Carpathian mountain. I mean, there are many places, how to call one of the Carpathian mountains. you can Even in Kyiv, there are so many places in Kyiv where you can just get lost and you're still in the big city, but you're going in a nice forest and you just feel this.
02:32:20
Speaker
you know And but you know, the the other thing is, ah that's another angle of of of Ukrainian life. So you go to the forest, right? you You enjoy this time, you have this peaceful moment, the sound of trees, dirt. And then you see, you know, they sign mines, or like, you know, because some arrears, they were occupied by Russian and they kind of cleared, but still, you know, you never know. So that's another problem. Well, I can get, say, to Ukraine, because we are now the most mined country in the world, we can say it, you know, with lots of explosive devices in all forests, in all area, all over Ukraine.
02:33:06
Speaker
So, you know, it's still, even there, the war sometimes can, you know, you still can, with the back of your head, think about that. Even that innocence has been violated. Yeah. Yeah. So even in the forest, you just simply see the small signs saying and careful mind or something. Although they say it's the mind, but, you know, somewhere you never know. So, yeah.
Call for Support
02:33:35
Speaker
but But yeah, nature is it is ah the best way to empower Ukraine. That's perfect. and you know Like I said, there's there's no right or wrong answers. it's ah that's That's fantastic. I would very much love to go to Ukraine. I've been trying to get there. um It will happen sooner or later, um and then i'll be I'll be very excited to... you know it's I'm not going there for nature. I'm going there. I would love to go there with this podcast to be there um and to speak to people like you and show the reality a little bit as well. Not because you know you you're not doing that very well, but because you know I think the way that I do it, and maybe maybe I'm wrong, um but i I can cater maybe to the Western, the Germans, the English that feel that
02:34:27
Speaker
I haven't paid enough attention maybe to the russians ah either the russian the Ukrainian side of the story um and the cultural identity that it brings, the independence that it has had, the Russian narrative that was so much forced on Western society, So that we believe all that bullshit and made a couple of really terrible decisions so so I think this would be my angle that's why I would very much love to come and tell the story from that angle. Just to make sure that nobody thinks that you know Ukrainians can't tell their story but stories as well as I can sure they can much better than me.
02:35:02
Speaker
And you are the living proof of that today with everything that we've talked about. You are telling the story of Ukraine in such a marvelous way. And I'm um in awe about your ethical integrity, um the picture quality, ah your spirit and everything. And I'm incredibly grateful that you joined me today on the van and for this conversation. Thank you very, very much, Roman. Thanks a lot. Thanks a lot, Bastian. And yeah, I can say you're welcome. Come to Ukraine. You're the most welcome here. That's what I was hoping for. That's what I was hoping for. That's what I was going for. Exactly. would Would love to meet you in person. And thanks a lot for all what you do. And that's important as well. It's really important to have as much support as we can.
02:35:49
Speaker
to spread the stories from Ukraine, about Ukrainians as much as possible so that Europe and the world know about that. That's what why we are doing this. That's why you're doing this. So thanks a lot from my bottom of my heart to you. I appreciate what you're doing. Thank you so much. Thank you very, very much, Roman. That means a lot to me as well. There we are at the affirmation again, right? We've also covered that today in our conversation a little bit. That's good. um Just in closing, because I always ask this, um do you have any organizational aid, ah but um any NGO, any organization that people can support that they can donate their money to?
02:36:32
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I can say some names because I don't know when the podcasts will be you know published. Sometimes we have, usually in Ukraine now, it's we have small, like people say, publish on social media, say, now we're collecting money for this and they're collecting in one week. to for some they Now it's often like for some special purpose, for for different reasons they collect. that amount of money they need, then they send it and spend for what they need. But we have some big, big also foundations. So we can say it's like a comeback a alive. It's a pretool of foundation and also hospitaliers, it's paramedics. So I think those, those three places definitely leave. And I'm sure there are much more places people can donate
02:37:20
Speaker
they They can just check and they can figure out different ways of donation for military, force for construction, for civilians, for paramedics. There are so many ways to to donate. So I definitely will ask people to support Ukraine as much as possible. and donate to those organization and other. And if they see trustable people collect money for where usually they explain what for and then they give a proof. So please yeah support those people as well.
02:37:57
Speaker
I will link to it in the show notes so that people can easily find it. um And again, yes, there will be Come Back Alive, which is supporting the military, I believe, but there will also be some um other ah things, like you just said, that are civilian in nature for everybody who, even though we've discussed that today as well, I think military aid for Ukraine is something very valuable, but people who, you know, for whatever reasons, ethical reasons don't want to do that, there will be other options as well. Civilian, yeah. amazing well then Roman I'm wishing you all the best um thank you once more it was a great pleasure having you it was not just a pleasure it was because it was showing such a scope of tragedy drama
02:38:39
Speaker
um And also hope. um And that made it so valuable. So I feel enriched by our conversation because you don't always feel richer just because everything is good. A lot of things in life come with depth, not with improvement. And this conversation was approved of that for me today. Thank you so much for taking the time and we will stay in touch, I'm sure. Thank you. Thank you so much, Bastin, for having me. Thanks for your time. Thanks for supporting Ukraine. Thanks a lot. I appreciate it.
02:39:16
Speaker
And with this, we're at the end of this trip in the yellow van. Thank you so much for coming along with us today. And thank you Roman for coming on the road with us today. Your work is so incredibly valuable in maintaining an emotional connection with Ukraine's fight for freedom and the rest of Europe. Your stories make us care more and we defend the things that matter to us. Thank you. The links to Roman's website and to the image gallery are in the show notes along with everything else we discuss today. The yellow van will be coming to you as a video podcast with every episode from now on. For all of you who would still rather listen, nothing will change. But for all of you who don't get tired of my face, which I wouldn't blame you for, this is an option available to you from now on as well.
02:40:08
Speaker
If you're a Ukrainian and would like to come aboard the yellow van or if you know someone who should please don't hesitate to get in touch with me. I am happy and grateful for anyone reaching out to me on www.yellowmanstories dot.com where you can also leave your general feedback or ideas for improvement. And if you want to support the podcast, please leave a review on the platform of your choice. I hope to welcome you back next time for a brand new episode. Until then, as always, keep loving in the face of fear and stand with Ukraine. Take it away, Jim.
02:40:51
Speaker
The attitude disturbs you and so I should And I know my fantasies on trouble into those like you Took a very, very long time But my message is clear in the face of fear you standin' for your rights It's the fact of your life
02:42:34
Speaker
Are you standing for your rights?