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Students of Conflict - Season 2 - #5B - Lonestar Fauxdown: Andre (Perdita Ortega, Neverborn Hunter vs. Prof. Von Schtook, Stargazer)
301 Plays3 months ago
This episode we talk to Andre about a game in his journey to taking home the Biggest Hat with his first place at the Lonestar Fauxdown Malifaux GT 2024. We discuss the importance of understanding how timing interacts with certain abilities, how determining what your target priority should be can make a huge impact on the game, and also muse about the pros and cons of Bans and dual master lists in major events.
Hosts: Doug and Clay
Guests: Andre and Bryan
Discord invite: https://discord.gg/TYh6XyBpns
Tournament: Lonestar Fauxdown Malifaux GT
Tournament on Longshanks: https://www.longshanks.org/event/20146/
Photos from the event: https://www.facebook.com/StudentsOfConflict/posts/pfbid0dcPEm5PUwLYQeWPFtv447K8NQPiexp7aVL4oyELPFCBfdtEQ79ZLY8PJftm3fiFgl
Encounter:
Round 2:
Deployment and Strategy: Standard, Stuff the Ballots
Schemes: Death Beds, Power Ritual, Deliver a Message, Espionage, Ensnare
Andre’s Schemes: Death Beds, Espionage
Bryan’s Schemes: Death Beds, Ensnare
Final Score: 6-4
Crews:
Andre’s Perdita Ortega, Neverborn Hunter
Size: 50 - Pool: 6
Leader:
Perdita Ortega, Neverborn Hunter
Totem(s):
Enslaved Nephilim
Hires:
Sonnia Criid
Purifying Flame
Francisco Ortega
Lead-Lined Coat
Guild Mage
Lead-Lined Coat
Abuela Ortega
Bryan’s Prof. Von Schtook, Stargazer
Size: 50 - Pool: 5
Leader:
Prof Von Schtook, Stargazer
The Whisper
Totem(s):
Research Assistant
Hires:
The Valedictorian
Vincent St. Clair
The Whisper
Student of Viscera
Necropunk
Necropunk 2
Enslaved Spirit
Foods Discussed:
HEB Jalapeño poppers
https://www.heb.com/product-detail/h-e-b-frozen-cream-cheese-stuffed-breaded-jalape-o-poppers-26-oz/6343506
(Students of Conflict recipes can be found in the #s2-recipes-archive channel of our discord server)
Plugs from Guest:
Austin Rooke, Andre’s Painter: @takoa in Discord and austin.m.rooke@gmail.com
Andre’s Crew, as an example: https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=533949999578107&set=pcb.533953156244458
Thank-Yous:
Big thanks to Top Doug Design for all the terrain we play on here in Texas and for sponsoring this podcast, to Wyrd Miniatures for allowing us to use their artwork from the 2nd Edition Student of Conflict, and to Dragon’s Lair Comics & Fantasy North Houston, the home of our Texas tournaments.
Top Doug Design: https://www.topdougdesign.com/
Wyrd Miniatures: https://www.wyrd-games.net/malifaux
Dragon’s Lair Comics & Fantasy - Houston North: https://www.dlair.net/houston-north/
Recommended
Transcript
Podcast Introduction & Guest Welcome
00:00:10
Speaker
Straight out of the heart of Texas, here come the students of conflict, helping you become a better Malifaux player and reach the top of the podium, one game at a time.
00:00:33
Speaker
All right, welcome to Students of Conflict. We are Clay and Doug. Hello. And hello. And we are absolutely overjoyed to have the entire podium here from the 2024 Lone Star Fodown. That these guys are coming here, helping us become better Malfoy players, at least hopefully doing so, leveling up Doug and I and hopefully leveling others up as well. We do this by taking an in-depth look at just one game from
Game Analysis Format
00:00:56
Speaker
our guests.
00:00:56
Speaker
asking them about key decisions that they made before the game, during the game, and now that they're looking back at the game, what were the things that they learned and that they can pass on to others? We really enjoy interviewing guests together so we can get some good cross flow in the different perspectives. so And then we release them as one individual podcast for guests, helping people level up one game at a time. Today, we are speaking with Liam, Andre, and Brian.
00:01:17
Speaker
Hello. Hi there. Yo. And hello guys. These guys came in third, first, and second at the Lone Star Fodown tournament in Houston, held in October the 12th through the 13th of 2024. And we are gonna be releasing our discussions with these guys as season two, episodes five A, B, and C.
Andre's Tournament Experience
00:01:38
Speaker
And without further ado, let's get going. Okay, so with me today,
00:01:47
Speaker
is the man, the myth, the legend, the current holder of the biggest hat coming in first place at the Lone
00:02:10
Speaker
Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. So thank you for having me, Joey. How are you doing today? I'm doing great. i'm I'm having a real good time. Yeah, so I am glad to have you here. I'm glad that we were able to get you at the Lone Star Fodown. And yeah, you had one heck of a weekend. I did. I had one heck of a grind of a weekend. I was like, oh, there's so many people here. Surely I'm going to get a couple of easy games and this will be fine.
00:02:44
Speaker
Uh, and, uh, and then it it was just a slug. Like my, my game one, I had a dude on ironically take Cooper two into me and I'm like, ah, okay. So this is going to be my easy. And I still had to grind. Like it was still a slug. Um, so you really, you put on a, you put on a good event because a lot of strong players came out. I felt like.
00:03:02
Speaker
Oh, I mean, I was having a chat with, um, uh, Peter for red square Pete and Landon and everyone's like, man, the sharks are here to dine to this weekend. I felt bad for our players that were like, at like the, what I would say, like the top 40% because after day one, we had Landon and Travis with two ties on a win.
00:03:25
Speaker
And there was just like, man, even if you're in that middle tier, you're still like trying to dodge sharks in the deep. I was so confused. I'm like, what is going on here? I mean, I know Ryan Wolf, when he ended up going and playing in dude, he was absolutely shocked in Florida. He came all the way from, came from,
Texas Jalapeño Poppers & Food Anecdotes
00:03:47
Speaker
I think it was one of the OKC guys and was, you know, it was like, wait, How am I played into Andre? Oh my God. It's just such a strong field across the board. It really was. And that was a hard game too. You know what? I'm already breaking the ice here, but you know, I have not asked you the icebreaker question yet. Cause I mean, we've been chatting already cause not to break the fourth wall, but we already have been recording for a little while here. Uh,
00:04:22
Speaker
But you know what? I'm going to start like it it's nice and fresh here, Andre. So you've been here before once or twice. how you're you're You're practically unofficial, you know, extra host.
00:04:35
Speaker
But as we all know here, we like to ask an icebreaker question before we, you know, really dig into the meat of the episode. And ironically enough, that icebreaker question frequently involves meat because we are being the, I've decided to make ourselves the Malfoy foodie podcast somehow because I was left unsupervised and you know, we just rolled with it.
00:04:58
Speaker
because students of conflict is from alifo players with discerning taste and an appetite. And now because we had Liam here with us today all the way from Australia and well quite frankly, Australia is known for dangerous things. And let's be honest, the pool the ah the pool of players we had for the Fodown was a dangerous, thank God, that was a dangerous roster as we were just saying there. What is your most dangerous recipe?
00:05:28
Speaker
Um, well, this is kind of a cop-out because we're all Texans, but the only thing that came to mind when I saw this question, uh, was, uh, this is going to be just shameless Texas advertisement. H-E-B, jalapeno poppers are to me, one of the most dangerous things you can, well and and hear me out here, there's there's two, two, two ways to interpret this. One is the white picket fence. Ooh, these are dangerous definition of dangerous. Uh,
00:05:58
Speaker
because they're so good. I love eating them. Anytime they're at any party ever, I will be eating at least five
Malifaux Strategies & The Ortegas
00:06:04
Speaker
of those things. They're moreish in a way that I can't avoid. It's like deviled eggs. I was gonna say five dozen? Is that- No, no, no. Not five dozen. That would be a lot.
00:06:13
Speaker
Uh, no, no, no, I would like to be alive at the end of my party going adventures. But the, uh, other aspect of danger to them, uh, is that you're, you're never really sure how good the workers at the back of the HEB did in clearing out the spice. Wow. the jalapeno poppers No, I'm not and like no shade, but like sometimes there's just like a lot of the white part that makes it real spicy left. And sometimes there's not at all. And so sometimes you're going to have a pleasant experience eating your batch of jalapeno poppers. And sometimes you will suffer for your sins.
00:06:43
Speaker
And so you're never sure which ah which brand or you which style of jalapeno popper you're gonna get. And so that's why I chose them for my my dangerous thing to eat. It's popper roulette for you. It is, it is.
00:06:58
Speaker
I like how you went with an ACB prepackaged meal that you just throw out the oven. So here's the issue, right? Like, I'm not a cook at all. Like, if anyone cooks in the house, it's not me. um And because I've been on this podcast so much, I really had to evaluate all of my recipes, because I don't i don't have it. You got two. You got the blitz, and you got the gooey butter cookies. And now I'm like, ah, and dont I love a mean bowl of Captain Crunch. I'm gonna say this, having had those gooey butter cookies, oh fuck, those are dangerous. They are. they Oh my god. i like I was munching on those and I'm like, I'm going to have a heart attack after this. But it's worth it. They are so good. Oh my god. I need to- Yeah, also, I can't i can't knock the prepackaged HTTP stuff. like I just can't. I mean, as someone not from Texas, I can say, you know what? I do appreciate the HEB. But also, as someone not from Texas, I might have to Texas shame you a little bit there. Since when are jalapenos considered spicy? I mean, it's not like it's habanero or anything. Okay, listen, I'm married to a woman who's like, Mayo is spicy, white, and I can't. I can't delve into the realm of spice. I can't be like, Hey babe, let's go to that Indian restaurant. There's this really like, no, like she'll just die. ah So I can't, I can't explore those kinds of things. So I'm not ah well versed in the ways of spice. And even in like high school and stuff where they were like, Hey, maybe you want to have the one chip challenge. Like, no, I'm good. I choose life. I don't,
00:08:32
Speaker
I don't want my favorite foods fighting me. i don't That one chip challenge is no joke. I've done it twice now, and it was awful at times. I've been tempted to do that. you know i mean the The first one, when they first released, they changed the recipe for the second time. The first one was horrible for like 20, 25 minutes, and then the second time, it was hotter, but for five minutes.
00:08:58
Speaker
and So um the the worst part of those, you could feel it slowly burning through your gut as it made its way through your stomach. So you knew it was coming later. That was the worst part about the worst challenge. and I have no idea why I would suggest myself to that experience. So I'm also going to say this. Why ah did humans evolve that we can sense capsaicin downstairs?
00:09:23
Speaker
Because we can't actually absorb it. Right. I mean, yeah. Anyways, so Malifaux, Malifaux, what is the one chip challenge of Malifaux?
00:09:38
Speaker
That's a good question. I'll have to think on that one, but I don't have an answer right now. Who in Malifaux is most likely to cook jalapeno poppers? Oh, man, who gives? Ortegas. That's so easy. Like, it' it's just like at the cookout, they're like hanging out shooting stuff in the backyard. And they're like helape speaking of the Ortegas. Smooth transition. Because I am a masterful transitioner within interviews. And I prepare for these things. Right. I'm incredibly prepared.
00:10:11
Speaker
Yeah. Didn't you just play it all for the transition at all? yeah Yeah. I planned it. I totally planned it.
Andre's Crew Strategy & Success
00:10:17
Speaker
We knew this. You played. yeah You one tricked. I did. Dita to this entire tournament. Surprise. Well, here's the thing. I didn't just one trick. I monolisted. A Dita to list. Yes. A Dita to two list. Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. So there's really more of a backstory than I thought there was when I started thinking about this. But I had.
00:10:40
Speaker
a rousing tie into Landon at the Danger Planet GT into McCabe. And while that game was a tie, I should have lost for multiple reasons. Uh, one of which is he straight up forgot where my deployment zone was and that cost him a point. And the other part of that is that he just couldn't find the cards, but I had played as though he did have the cards. And if you had just had the cards, he could have risen. Um, so all that came down to, I hate McCabe too. And I was like, dang.
00:11:09
Speaker
that guy sucks and that kind of stored that away in my brain. And then I had another game in the Landon. Landon really just shapes how I played the game. everything He's like a like and ah the fish that got away and long lost X of mine or something. But anyway, I mean, I was gonna say the the list you played it in Boston, I mean, you... um That was one of the roughest curve stompings I've played into it a good long while. I mean, you kicked my ass. I was real sweaty at the Danger Planet tournament. and And yet, I came away thought thinking to myself, man, I could have tried harder. And so that just kept going away. But anyway, I played a MWS game in the Landon at one point. And the highlight of the game, which I lost in that round, but I was playing Maxine into ah his Masaki because he was trying to flex on me.
00:11:57
Speaker
And the highlight of me for that game, even though I lost, was I had a machinist with either hurricane, so I ignore auras, charged into Masaki because extended reach gets ignored because it's an aura. And he wrenched her to death. And I thought that was awesome. And I was like, dang, how do I continue to ignore auras? And then I was looking through Perdita 2's upgrades on a whim. And I noticed the duck and cover was one one of the upgrades. And I was like, oh my gosh.
00:12:23
Speaker
You know how many things Duck and Cover ignores? Why can I put this on a nine stone henchman that's probably under costed at that? um And so a star was born and my Perdita 2 play began. um And so I started windmill slamming Perdita um leading up to this event ah in practice games and in ah the tournament before this one locally and all that stuff.
00:12:46
Speaker
um But I think one of the big questions on everyone's mind because let me let me read off to you the list since this is relevant a for just like this game as well as be my run for the whole tournament. The list that I ran exclusively at this tournament ah was predicted to.
00:13:04
Speaker
Enslaved Nephilim of course Sonia one second master higher and I'm gonna talk about this cuz it's kind of your fault as well ah Purifying flame as the totem higher because even for three stones out of keyword. He's delicious ah Frank with a coat because he must not die Abuela guildmates with a coat because he also must not die and six notes So I've been playing Perdita solo ah for a while and because that's just how you do and the MWS typically chides away from dual master and all that stuff. um And then I looked over the tournament packet and I was like, oh, there's no bands and there's no singles.
00:13:41
Speaker
Hey, Steve. And so Sonya wanted to just come out ah the rework, that is. And she had Arkane Reservoir. And the one thing that I noticed about all of my predicted games is that ah she's extremely card hungry. And I was like, Arkane Reservoir, that's just like a band-aid for everyone's problems. um And then I also noticed that Sonya 1 no longer had summon upgrades. So if you take her as a second master, there's still no limit to the stuff she can hire. um And her totem, the purifying flame, is significant and has a bonus action move and is interestingly difficult to kill for cost.
00:14:10
Speaker
And so I was like hey, there's a scheme runner the Ortega is kind of lacked for good versions of those And so just kind of fit like it all came together like I already had a summoner also Sonya's summon is on tomes and Perdita's is on Rams So they're not competing for resources it gives me extra resources to work with a lot of good range threat And it all just like combined together into I bet this could work And so I tried it on a whim and into our boy Jim Dyson um He ah dutifully served as my guinea pig for that first game and it worked out so well that I was like
00:14:43
Speaker
Dang, this can't work that well again, right? um And then I played into Simon, one of the strongest Simon players on the planet, in my opinion. And I took him 6-2, and I was like, nah, nah, right? Like, nah. And so it happened two more times. I played into two more really strong players, both out of ah New Zealand at this point. And I took dubs there, ah despite the really efficient KG play style, and all Grant Liam is due, that the New Zealand players are a heck of a meta.
00:15:10
Speaker
And so I was like, okay, cool. I got a windmill slam this just to see what happens. I like not having to think about my crew before I play a game. Um, and so that's why I chose to windmill slams. This crew is because I had, and that was, that was four days before, by the way, the game, the game into gym was four days before the tournament began. So this Sonya two or the Sonya edition was just like a whim spur of the moment. Oh my gosh, it's working out really well. Let's try it. Um,
00:15:36
Speaker
And all that came together to bring me to this crew right here that you see before you.
Thematic Inspirations & Artist Collaboration
00:15:41
Speaker
I knew going in, you were looking at doing the the Spanish Inquisition crew, as it were. Yes. Yes. i had I had set up a commission for my boy Austin Rook. He is a fantastic painter. And if you have access to him, I highly recommend commissions from him. um But yeah, so I had seen a Francisco online with a red coat. And it it very much gave a strong Spanish Inquisition vibes.
00:16:04
Speaker
um and And I don't know, it looked like, cause you know, when you think, when you hear Spanish acquisition, you obviously think of like the Monty Python memes and stuff like that. But like, there was this very like regal, intimidating look that it had going with it with all of like the bling and the red and the golds and all that stuff. And I'm like, Oh, yeah. this could work. And like, you know, the the Ortegas are clearly like Latin Catholic, you you know, ah sly, even on the base sculpt is like a rosary hanging out of his pocket. And Frank has a cross hanging off of his sword and the alt sculpt and stuff. And I was like, Oh, yeah, this could work. So ah he he hooked me up, man, like I got a Boila like pimp mobile, the Pope mobile type thing, but she's got like a mother superior habit on instead of her
00:16:45
Speaker
sombrero hat. um You know, we had like church steps and like all of the bases were made in like the sleek looking marble. the The beautiful artistry done to make that vision come to life for the Spanish Inquisition theme of the crew. um And he did it in short order too. I only gave him a month because I'm a jerk.
00:17:05
Speaker
um But he delivered. I was absolutely impressed. So yeah, all that come together. I was like, okay, I got to play Perdita. Yeah. I mean, and i mean they and those were up there in my considerations for Best Painted on there. But anyone who looked at the pictures of Best Painted goes, oh, well, screw you, Ryan. for yeah yeah do he's so good He did some amazing stuff. He was a beautiful group.
00:17:31
Speaker
So, and, um, on the, um, students of conflict Facebook, I posted a bunch of photos from the event and I've got photos of all of the, uh, painting entries up there. And so you should all just go check them out. They're gorgeous, gorgeous, gorgeous models. And you can see the, um, uh, crew we're talking about, uh, the Spanish Inquisition crew and but god those those ones from, um, Ryan. Yeah, the the Alt-Hoffman crew. even Even without the LEDs? Yeah. Okay, LEDs is adding that little bit of frosting on there. A little bit of flavor.
00:18:09
Speaker
But even without the LEDs, they're still getting the, they probably would have gotten the best paint on there anyway. yeah Even without LEDs for anyone looking. He he is nutty good, but yeah. I will put links in, uh, uh, to the Facebook page there, uh, in the show notes and I will also reach out to you afterwards, Andre, and get some contact information for your painter. Uh, we don't know that to all of our listeners will be able to get access, short sure but it would be super cool to be able to. So, uh, so we'll do that. Thank you.
00:18:35
Speaker
Oh, yeah. ah Austin. Awesome dude. And I mean, great painter to begin with. And then he always, you know, loves to chat with me about more painting things.
Adaptability in Malifaux Meta
00:18:43
Speaker
And he's like, hey, how do I get more painting commissions? Like, oh, well, hey, we'll talk about you on the podcast. ah Absolutely. And hopefully it will hook you, get you the hookup. Yeah, no, I I definitely love all the work you did. Like, I love like the enslaved Nephilim ended up being like one of my favorite pieces for no reason because they put like a coat on him. But instead of like the ball and chain, he has like a bell that he's ringing and I'm like, oh, that makes up much sense So there's a whole Quasimodo thing going. and ah Like I said, Abuela just turned out so well with her like holy poo-poo-poo thing going. like I loved it. Anyway. I gave him a little bit little bit of help, little some tips on some of the green stuff sculpting. and you know yeah my My fingerprints are in there somewhere.
00:19:24
Speaker
nice I appreciate that that. I wanted to ask some about the list, if you don't mind. And just and the idea of one actual list, certainly you have a reputation for for taking a particular master and one tricking a master. But often, it seems like often you will change up the list a little for the for the pool or for the ah the matchup or whatever.
00:19:45
Speaker
um is Am I incorrect there? Do you normally find kind of a generalist list and stick with that? Or is this really the one of the first times that you have like, no kidding, this this list could do everything in any pool, crazy diverse pool set. And how does that work out? How how do you find that? How do how does a ah non-top tier player even think about doing such a thing? or you know can they Is that something worth considering? Yeah. Is that worth considering? Yeah. Especially for like ah a player who doesn't have access to, you know, yeah, you start out, you've got two masters, one master, maybe two, you've got a couple out of keyword models. You know, you're looking for a good generalist list as a general thing, as a, as a lower tier player. Yeah. Is this that list? Everybody should just be running that, you know? So appreciate any thoughts in that, in that big topic there. Thank you. Sure.
00:20:37
Speaker
Uh, well, I mean, technically speaking, I first got famous off a monolist. That was my Nakeemah days with a pair of anxious packed pitchers, hairdo butterfly, jump, Nakeemah butterfly, jump, a shaman. Uh, and of course the, the totem and pre-butterfly, jump, nerf. Yeah. Pre-butterfly jump because of you specifically. Yeah. Literally me, uh, was the reason that got nerfed. Uh, so, you know, fair enough. But.
00:21:00
Speaker
That could handle everything at the time back in the infancy of third edition. ah But the game has expanded so much now in terms of like what people are able to do and what masters you're able to hire and stuff like that, ah that it's much more difficult to cover all your bases. um So in the modern era of Malifaux, I guess I would say, ah Bono listing is very, very hard. And I would say that most of the time,
00:21:21
Speaker
ah you can't come up with a list that deals with everything at least okay. Usually there's gonna be some matchup where you just get clobbered if you're not prepped for it. um So what I will say is that as an example, like my Maxine days before I took up the guild banner, I would have a list that I would take most of the time, but I would have a list that I needed in case my opponent was expected to be able to attack buried models. ah Because Maxine's favorite toy is the BB and Calypso combo.
00:21:52
Speaker
Um, and if you can just punch the dude inside of the submersible, you have a bad time. Um, so I had to build a list around that concern. Uh, so anytime you play it into someone who liked their out of keyword hires in guild or in outcasts, or you're just straight up playing into Tara or lady J. Cause that's where those hires come from. Um,
00:22:14
Speaker
I would have to either put the Bebalypso on the shelf and hire like Mr. N or something like that, or I would have to have Bebalypso basically anchored to the intrepid emissary at the time ah so that if they tried to attack BP, I would just hand the attacks off ah to the intrepid, ah which is a weird game of telephone for where those attacks are coming from and going. But anyway,
00:22:35
Speaker
um For this list, however, the adaptability of Perdita's upgrades means that I don't have to plan for how my opponent is going to play the game beforehand necessarily. ah Additionally, ah because if i if I had to play singles, Perdita would still have to adapt a little bit. So as an example, if I know that I'm playing into a somber or like a Hamlin, where I need like big area damage to clear out chaff, I have to hire the Pale Rider. But that's obviously not a concern until like,
00:23:06
Speaker
Von Schill or something like that with a lot stronger elite crew builds. um And so Perdita won by herself would have to adapt to specific matchups or specific pools. um Like if it snares in the pool, I want to bring Sly, but if it's not, he's not really serving that strong of a purpose.
00:23:24
Speaker
so So were you prepped for this event with some sideboard pics for this, or did you go in knowing that this is the crew, you're not swapping stuff out? Because I know that there was other models that um were painted for you that aren't in this crew.
00:23:44
Speaker
Correct. So like I said, I had given Austin, cruelly, I had given Austin the commission a month out, ah which to paint the models that he did to the level that he did and the amount of time that he had was nothing short of incredible. But ah with that being the case, I had expected to merely play keyword Perdita with a guild mage. And then I had, I had already had a pale writer in my repertoire, so I didn't have to worry about getting that painted. But the Like I said, the realization that Sonya vibed with the crew well ah was a realization I made four days prior to the start of the event.
00:24:19
Speaker
um So I didn't have, like my commission was already through, right? Like he was already most of the way through finishing that commission, um, to get the crew ready, which is why I had them. Uh, and I had intended originally before I had my Sonia Eureka moment, uh, of having a fairly deep sideboard within the family keyword, uh, to be able to play certain models, uh, against certain crews. Cause Nino is real good and into certain crews and terrible and into others. Like if you're playing into an Akima two.
00:24:46
Speaker
ah You want Nino because being able to gun down dogs ah before they activate and potentially before the reproduce is huge. ah But if you're playing into a crew that's just going to immediately dive Nino and eat him, that's less great. um So having that kind of adaptability is important if you have to place Perdita by herself. ah With the addition of Sonya, however, Sonya has enough mobility, range, area of effect,
00:25:16
Speaker
that I didn't have to worry as much about having to adapt to a particular opponent ah because between what I could summon with Sonya, because it was like, Oh, dang, he's got a lot of roof or terrifying models or whatever. I can be like, well, I'm going to hit one guy with a fire blast. I'm going to take some burning and I'm going to drop a thrall onto the table.
00:25:32
Speaker
Or, oh man, he's he's playing wide. I'm going to have to eat some ski markers. Cool. I'll throw an 11 tome out of the mix. I'll get a hex bow. And now I have target practice on a running gun model. um There's just so much adaptability that was in the kit ah because of what I could summon and because of what upgrades I could attach that I did not have to adapt at crew build. I could just adapt on the table.
00:25:56
Speaker
Um, and so that was why I think this crew worked so well. Now, as for the question of whether or not being able to mono with this list is good for new players, I would say no, because you must own the entirety of Sonya's keyword in order to maximize second to master Sonya. Um, because so much for potential value comes from being able to summon literally any of her minions and besides Samuel hot rod and the totem, her entire keyword is minions. So you'd have to own the whole thing. Um,
00:26:26
Speaker
that in addition to having access to family, both the pistol arrows and monster hunters and then Frank and Abuela and the guild mage. So I wouldn't recommend it for new players. And even then, being able to understand what your opponent's crew does and then adapt to it on the fly, I would argue is a little harder ah to keep present of mind at the table, especially if you're a newer player and you're like,
00:26:53
Speaker
All right, how does protected territory work? Also, what's the best upgrade for this matchup? So there's a little more thinking at the table going on that I might not necessarily recommend to newer players. But like I said, this list just came together for me and it really worked out in terms of what I could win Mill Slam because I know what to adapt to on a given table.
00:27:14
Speaker
Yeah, that makes a ton of sense. Just the idea of it's, yeah, double flexibility. Cause you, you've got an upgrade master plus a summoning master together. You can find whatever toolkit that you want. Uh, folks who've listened to us with the, the Liam's episode talking about fun, chill, being able to find the right tools. You've got that and then some. So yeah, it may makes total sense that it's the on the table flexibility rather than the during the hiring flexibility. Cool. Thank you. Great answer. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. For
Game Discussion: Andre vs Brian
00:27:43
Speaker
sure.
00:27:43
Speaker
So I feel like we've covered pretty well the before the tournament um tough questions there. So now going into this game, which oh I don't think we've even asked, what round are we talking about? I picked round two into my boy, Brian. Not happy. Hey, Brian. Whoa. On the show as well. Look out. That's crazy. Surprise.
00:28:10
Speaker
No, i I picked this game. It was a really good game. um And I think there were lessons to take away from it. I mean, I do love tea bagging Brian on air, so I can't say that I don't. But at the same time, there were some good lessons to pick from it. um And it was just like it was still a good close game. Like I had no by no means was I in control of the game consistently or anything like that. It was very much a swingy game. um And so I that that's why I picked it.
00:28:36
Speaker
That's not the real reason. You just want to clown on me. Yeah. I mean, of course. I would have it i mean, yeah you're here. So he just needs to, you know, dunk on you again. Right. I mean, why not go for the victory lap? You know, but, uh, no, no, I think I thought it was, I thought it was a good round to, I think when you have games that you can expose it that are.
00:29:01
Speaker
you know, both players are really, really good. Uh, I mean, cause we're talking about first and second at the, you know, the biggest tournament of this year, I think. Um, and you know, we still, we both still made it to podium, right? Like even with the six four under my belt and against his belt, he still climbed his way back to podium timing to second, right? Like it's, it it was a tough fight the whole way. It was a rough slog to get there. I'm just, yeah Well, I mean, both of you had a fairly ah tough matchup here. I was just looking over this i mean because you've got, you know, two, five, six, seven right here. I mean, that includes, you know, I was a Brian. We got Jonathan there. We got Rage Quitwire Pete. You've got Landon ah Trevor. I mean, from out that that was Colorado Trevor, right?
00:29:50
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. He, I mean, I played into him at Captain Gun. He's a strong player, so. He's good. And like I said, uh, Trevor brought that Cooper to list and I thought I was like, Oh man, poor guy. I won't even know what hit him. And I still had to sweat my way through that game. Um, and so it was like, Oh man, there's not going to be any any easy rounds. Is there? And there was not like game two and a Brian. I was like, I told him when I hit the table, I was like, I think this will be the hardest match that I have to play into. Um, and that could be true, but I did not realize how close to not true that statement was going to be. Um,
00:30:25
Speaker
So, so was this the hardest round of the tournament for you? I have to think about this. It's through no fault of Brian's no. I think that the matchup that I actually struggled the most with, and this, this is weird, right? Because the matchup that actually came closest to losing was into Landon, but. Well, no, he can be your white whale sometimes.
00:30:52
Speaker
Yo, yeah, for sure. But like, I would no point into Landon's game was I thinking, oh man, I've just lost. Every round was like, I'm going to have to really try to get this going. But I was no point like I've been defeated. My game into Ryan in his Hoffman two, I literally thought I had just lost the game on turn one. Frank went down turn one. That's amazing. Yeah. And I was like, oh, man. I'm like, I don't know how to come back because here's the for that game. I was like, all right, cool. You know, he's thrown three severes. We should be fine. And then he just still had Red in hand. Hoffman famously has zero carbon. manipulation And this dude just had
00:31:28
Speaker
red king king 12 off the dome turn one and i was like cool i can't have accounted for this and so when i threw franken i'm like ah he'll be fine and then he's got dunked joss was like nice reduction idiot kadoop
00:31:45
Speaker
knows so I was like, oh no, I'm about to lose this game. But it turns out through the power of ah sufficient numbers of bodies, I was able to keep him contained long enough for Sonya to do her grisly work. ah That was your lowest scoring game. i know yeah I'm just looking at your score. 4-2. It was great.
00:32:03
Speaker
But for this game, I thought it was going to be my hardest matchup because of all the matchups that I was thinking in my mind that would be difficult for Perdita. It was the crew that strongly featured stuns and a combination of hard to wound and armor.
00:32:16
Speaker
Um, that combination is really good into what Perdita likes to bring to the table because most of her damage tracks, even on her premier models are two, four fives. Uh, so being able to keep her on men's is really good. Uh, and the crew is also pretty trigger dependent. So being able to deny those is really good. It didn't matter. It didn't matter. No, it didn't matter. Uh, and we'll get to that. Um,
00:32:37
Speaker
But like generally speaking, Vonstook brings a lot of tools to the table that I'm afraid of. Additionally, I'm more of a fan of Vonstook ones. That's what I fear when I think of Vonstook. I know that Von Stuktu is more popular, and Von Stuktu is what Brian took here. Just for our listeners, Brian's crew was Stuktu with Whisper, research assistant, of course, valedictorian, a pair of necropunks, student of viscera and slave spirit, and his out of keyword hire, Vincent St. Clair with the Whisper, um because he was playing a pair of summoners. So that hire totally made sense, although he didn't, I think, end up clicking any summons off the table. He did not. um But yeah, it's like,
00:33:15
Speaker
The, the, the, the Von Stuck matchup is spooky because all the things Perdita likes to do, in theory, Stuck tries to deny. Um, so I put, as an example, I think that with Stuck 1, making my upgrades fall off sucks. It means I have to put Nephilim Hunter on Frank so he can keep his lead line coat, uh, so that he gets to ignore Academic Superiority and live. Uh, but because I didn't have to worry about Academic Superiority, I got to put Hag Hunter on him this game.
00:33:43
Speaker
And the trigger denial was costly. but Well, not the denial, but the the discard, right? Being able to chew through b Brian's hand because of the counterspell effect was really, really strong here. um So personally, I like took one more for this matchup. But yes, at the time, I thought this was going to be my hardest matchup because I couldn't think i could not divine of ah of a stronger matchup into Perdita and what she likes to do. um And even for Sonya, right? Like as the second master higher, you're like, all right, cool. I love to blast, but blast damage is still dependent on flipping blasts and into hard to wound. It's not great. Now, Sonya, in this particular instance, just kind of ran up the side and scored points with her ah faithful totem instead of actually contributing to the fight a lot.
00:34:31
Speaker
um But that was my thinking at the time. This was going to be my hardest matchup for those reasons. Yeah. And I'll say the the reason why in my mind, I can't run stroke into this matchup is he doesn't have hard to wound like he has a disarm trigger built in.
Impact of Tournament Formats
00:34:48
Speaker
But him without harder wound means he's going to get clapped.
00:34:52
Speaker
fairly quickly at range from Dita, Sonya, and even Frank can take his Peacekeeper and be like, all right, here's a two, four, five. I'm just going to shoot you a lot, and your master dies, and it's game over. So that was my fear of running Shtuk 1 into this game.
00:35:14
Speaker
And that makes me even more glad that I picked this game because I wouldn't have thought about that in terms of like, uh, cause I just, my highlight reel of struck one is the things I don't like about him. So like trying to pressure his weak points is not even really on my, uh, top of mind. So that that's a good point. But yeah, that was, that was my fear going into this game was that I was going to get.
00:35:32
Speaker
clapped on the rocks of hard wound and armor. But it was not so this time by the power of cheesy rules interpretation. And I'll also say that I think if if Doug had had this be bands or singles, yeah I wouldn't have brought Vincent, which opens up more of the hard wound armor. Yeah. Can I need to bring to this game?
00:35:54
Speaker
um So I also blame Doug for this loss, just so just just so we're all on the same page. Wow. Okay. I have this question marked for later in the interview here. yeah So ah first first off is that I don't run tournaments as singles. Because you know what? I love the concept of double masters out there. Sure. Yeah. um Absolutely. but So previous years at the Fodown, I've done bands for the event.
00:36:22
Speaker
But one of the major comments that was brought up to me by a large number of the people who came to the event last year, because I always put a little, hey, how could we improve this event for next year?
00:36:36
Speaker
several people complained about BAMs. And so I was like, okay, right now there weren't any, I've always viewed BAMs as a way to um ah deal with things that need to be eroded or FAQed that have not gotten hit with it yet.
00:36:58
Speaker
such as when there was the Hoffman 2 as a second master to Mei Feng where he could keep getting, you know, hey, command construct on him and get like five laser beam blasts a turn, which was fucking ridiculous. Absolutely. So what are your feelings on bands and dual master singles, et cetera?
00:37:25
Speaker
Because I know you do a lot with the and MWS and they tend to run singles most of the time. it release that my Yeah, yeah. And I think that for I would say 70 to 80% of games, even in tournament play, like if you're talking like local tournaments or like the monthlies or whatever.
00:37:42
Speaker
um I don't think it's necessary to always have to run bands or singles. um I think the kind of freeform market that that allows for it lets people try stuff like that. And so once you get to the big tournaments, you know, where people are playing for the big hat.
00:38:01
Speaker
um you can make those decisions more and and in a more informed way rather than just being like, well, you know these two guys on the internet really don't like this. So it must suck. So I'm going to put in bands or whatever. That being said, I think for me personally, I enjoy bands as an aspect of skill expression ah because holistic understanding of the game for me is something that I'm really good at. So if there's a matchup that I'm concerned about, like that I think that this combo is really good or I'm really tired of seeing lone marshal out of keyword or whatever. um Being able to be like, all right, cool. I can ban this out. I don't have to worry about this. Or if you have a thing that's just like specifically screwed by a particular model. Like if you're a brew master, the last thing you want to see is the iron Scorpius or the the Scorpius out of keyword ah to put neurotoxins on the table and ruin your day. Or if you're a summoner, you're get real tired of
00:38:56
Speaker
the marshals being hired out of keyword to click your summons off the table rather than your opponent actually trying to deal with your summons in a normal way or Vincent and the resurrections faction and stuff like that.
00:39:08
Speaker
um So the more present of mind about the game you are in its entirety, the better expression of skill bands becomes. And so I like bands for that. The inverse to that, though, is that if you're like, hi, I'm John Malafoe and I'm here to play Malafoe for the first time.
00:39:28
Speaker
I can't wait to get my first few games of Maleficent win at this tournament for some reason. ah Your your bands and the decisions you make are just going to be kind of random or non-existent. And so you feel like you're instead of being ah an opportunity for skill expression, it's an opportunity to show how unskilled you are um by being like, oh, man, I should have banned that or what have you. um And it can also kind of get.
00:39:54
Speaker
um more netlessly, more metagaming in a way that may not feel as good for players. So I can definitely see both sides of like the yes-bands, no-bands approach ah to the game.
00:40:07
Speaker
um I saw no bands no bands no singles as an opportunity to be able to not have to think about my crew build and so I appreciated that ah because ah as a counterpoint ah the Ninja Planet GT had double masters allowed but had bands and the sad nature of Malifaux being a social game to a certain extent Um, meant that I had some hot, uh, Seamus Jack dot tech that I wanted to bring the table and I got to bring it to the table one time because rounds two through five, it got banned, tormented, got banned. That was the band. Um, so I was like, dang it. Uh, so I think.
00:40:46
Speaker
It curbs your worst successes because you can't just like not think about crew builds. Um, but it can, and it can provide a great opportunity for people to skill express, but at the same time, it can be a feels bad if you're new to the game. But like, it's a tournament. I, as much as I want to be welcoming for newer players, I don't know if the new player experience is what I'm most concerned about as something like the photo because it's supposed to be a celebration of competition.
00:41:14
Speaker
Yeah. And I would say that just speaking on behalf of the lower tier players here, you know, this yeah that absolutely that is my voice. Clay, no, yeah you are middle third player now. So ah yeah, by the very skin of my teeth. Yeah. You're right.
00:41:30
Speaker
You are a middle third player, Clay, officially by the rankings. There you go. But I still represent the lower tier, dang it. And the point is that I think it doesn't matter. I really wouldn't worry about that as a issue for newer players. You're going to a tournament, you're go you're looking to learn six games, you're looking to probably get your feet face beat in the first three or four, but then games five and six, you're playing at your level and you're having a blast.
00:41:59
Speaker
you know and And so I think that that's not an issue. i I think that bands, I can argue bands either way, everything that you've said, and then I could also argue against them because um it tends to send you, if you have bands, it tends to elevate the keywords that play really good in keyword. you know Story is a fantastic example where it's amazing in keyword.
00:42:25
Speaker
Molly, my favorite master in the game, kind of sucks in keyword. And so, you know, it it it hurts my favorite master. But like, whatever, you know, it's true it's it's fine. You know, again, I can argue it either way. So I mean, I think a counterpoint that wasn't brought up for why bands are bad would be that there are some cases where you need to have that counter-tech in your list to stop some of the excesses that these strong cures bring. For example, Vincent is the only reser counter-tech to summons.
00:43:02
Speaker
I mean, I guess you have Anna with her with her gravity. Well, but this is the main card tech. So if you play in someone that's summoning whores and hordes of models, writers don't have a good answer to that other than Vincent. So then, you know, I don't know. Dreamer comes in and says, all right, well, get out here, Vincent. you You can't deal with my incorporeal. You can't deal with my summons. ah You're just going to lose this game. Get fucked, kid. I can go either way in terms of how bands play because I don't want to see the excesses of Sonya and Dita, or Seamus and DAW, or I mean, even, odd enough, Parker and Manchester was a weird combo I saw that was really annoying. um I mean, I dealt with it, but it was awful.
00:43:50
Speaker
ah good to know. Yeah, it's it's irritating. So bands will allow you to stop some of the excesses, but it does ah also prevent you prevent you from being able to stop strong some of the stronger keywords that are out there. ah So I mean, it could really go either way. But I mean, I know I'm always on the fence with
Tournament Rule Adjustments & Feedback
00:44:11
Speaker
it.
00:44:11
Speaker
I mean, I would vote for bands because I'd rather stop the excesses and just place your keywords personally because that was awful. Yeah. Well, and I can go either way with that. Cause like the big man right now is obviously a Sami and Vincent being able to be hired. So you can just be like, all right, Sammy, if you want to put drugs on the table, that's fine. I'm just going to click them off the table. yeah Um, that feels really, really good. Uh, so it kind of just depends on like who you want to win. Do you want?
00:44:36
Speaker
people that can stop summoners to win or do you want people that are summoners to win? Um, because no matter what you do, someone's going to be the strongest person to pick and under any set of conditions. Um, so I think it'd be six and one half dozen of another, but I am jokingly assigning blame to Doug, uh, because it's rare to see a kind of an unfettered format, uh, to allow for something that I did, uh, with this windmill slam double master con.
00:45:04
Speaker
Oh, it was very specifically requested for this year to say, Hey, cause there was a good, I don't know, yeah at least five people um who mentioned it to us like, Hey, not a big fit. Now it was mostly Pacific Northwest who was telling me they didn't want bands. Sure. But you know what? But I like to, you know, get feedback from the community on it and kind of know going in.
00:45:30
Speaker
waste improve the tournament. and And I would just say, yeah, thank you, Doug, for listening to the community. You do run the surveys for people who haven't attended a Houston thing that he always has a little survey at the bottom. That's like, yeah, any suggestions for next year, for the next, the next tournament we run in. It's super cool. And yeah, if somebody's going to take the time to travel.
00:45:47
Speaker
across the planet in Liam's case or you know down from Pacific Northwest down to Houston. like Yeah, I appreciate you listening to their voice. so Even if it's not what I would necessarily choose or what I would, yeah if i was if I was hard over on it, I would have put notes in. Keep bands no matter what. you know and I didn't put that note in last year, so heck, yeah and nor did I put that in this year because I was like, I don't know, it was kind of fun playing it wide open. and You know, Wild Wild West. It has the Wild Wild West feel that I do kind of enjoy about the Texas meta. So that was cool, too. Yeah, I'm definitely not sold either way. I I've played with bands and play without bands. I think the game's fun either way. um And it was nice to after the Danger Planet GT come to the Houston GT and have a different playing field set of rules to play by. So it was nice. Well, I mean, GenCon, I mean, my I built my list around make it at a band proof list.
00:46:42
Speaker
Yeah. And, you know, cause they, they, they rocked bands too and singles at Gen Con where you're like, Oh goodness. Bands and singles. Wow. But yeah, like I said, that's just another thought project. Not, not, not just bands. It was bands too, not just bands one. So it was extra.
00:47:00
Speaker
But yeah, so ah we've gone, you know, a little off the reels here on this thing. But you know what? You've been here so often that kind of ahead. So have we discussed what the actual pool for this round was? Of course not. Let's see. So this was round two, which was standard deployment, stuff the ballot, deathbeds, power ritual, deliver message, espionage, and ensnare.
00:47:28
Speaker
And what did y'all end up going with? Uh, I picked,
Detailed Game Analysis & Key Plays
00:47:34
Speaker
um, death beds and espionage and Brian ended up picking death beds and ensnare, um, which worked out great for him on that ensnare pick. Cause his totem loves top decking tomes on nada bombs, but that was wonderful. Um,
00:47:50
Speaker
um but I ended up picking espionage and deathbeds and that worked out a little better. Sonya did most of my scoring for this game and the the score I think for the stuffing of the ballots and such came down to I eventually air quotes won the scrum in the center um and so the strategy went a little more my way than it did his. I don't know if you disagree or not but um Are you just waiting for me to to complain and vent? I'm giving you the opportunity if you'd like to. it's a So there's this really dumb interaction that Andre found but with Petita that I saw in the forums and I forgot about. So ah I made a bad decision and it cost me this game, essentially what it comes down to.
00:48:44
Speaker
um He was going hard on Vincent the entire round. So I was burning, I was burning all my stones. I was spending my resources, keeping Vincent alive because the longer Vincent stayed alive, the less chance he was going to summon anything. And he didn't summon the single model until Vincent died.
00:49:01
Speaker
Uh, so, you know, Vincent just being there was a, was a boogeyman. I was keeping Andre in check and it felt really, really good to keep him sort of worried and focused elsewhere and trying to figure out how he's going to get around myself. Uh, I think I killed guild mage turn two really early. Uh, I mean, I was, I was doing all the right steps in the right directions. Uh, but on turn three, uh, I activated Vincent first.
00:49:26
Speaker
because, ah no, no, you did have a summon, you had a Thrall, and I thought I could whisper the cards I needed to walk out, kill the Thrall, and then rapid fire and possibly kill the enslaved Nephilim or do some massive damage to Abuela. And my hand was meh, and my top three cards were all weeks, and I went, well, this is not great.
00:49:51
Speaker
so I walked him out and I removed the enslaved Nephilim, called it a day. Chalked him as a winning. I killed his totem that draws him a card and life is good. ah Frank was engaging Von Stuck. Stuck had, I think, 12 life left at this time. It was mostly full. Frank was stunned, so I wasn't worried about onslaught. I wasn't worried about crit strike. I was just like, okay, he's gonna hit me four times.
00:50:23
Speaker
Maybe do 10 damage with one moderate, you know harder wound as he hits me I get positives to my defensive flips Stokes gonna be okay. That is not what happened. No, so yes The the rules ah Successful rules interpretation that he's talking about is um So because of whales in the crew and the way that opera works ah Frank can at the end of his activation discard a card to have Abuela take the Listen Up Young in action on Frank. Uh, what this means is you can give Frank more AP during his end of activation step. Uh, what this additionally means is it's what happened is that Frank, cause he started actually engaging valedictorian. So he heroically intervened over to Stuck because I hadn't started fighting him yet.
00:51:16
Speaker
I took one swing while stunned, which sucks. And then I concentrated. And then I operate to tell Boila to take, to tell me to take attacks. The problem with this is, is that during the end of activation, which is the same timing as apparel is also the same timing that the stunned condition falls off. So Frank unstons and then tells Abuela, Hey baby doll, please give me more attacks. Um, so he then got to take two onslaught attacks. Um,
00:51:42
Speaker
because you take the first attack that he gets for the op-rail and it's still his activation. So guess what? I get to flurry still, also unstunned. um So this whole combo comes out where Frank basically takes one unstunned attack during his turn and a focus and otherwise gets to proceed to take his turn normally. And Frank popped off. I did not have the cards for this.
00:52:03
Speaker
And Brian top decked, I must reiterate to the listeners exclusively 13s for Von Stokes defense. um Yeah, yeah. So so I flipped all four of my kings in four duels. ah And he still hit me every single time. And he hit me with onslaught attacks. I think the final attack was crit strike. Yeah. ah And he just clapped my master from almost full health to dead.
00:52:28
Speaker
ah outside of his activation, even. Correct. It was awful. So yeah, Frank just like went off and because I'd already run him out of stones attacking Vincent because he's trying to keep him alive for the anti-summon threat. um And so yeah, when his master was removed from full health to dead, unactivated on turn three, suddenly I had control of the tempo again, ah which was a problem that I'd run into because Frank had flipped Black Joker for damage three times in the first two turns.
00:52:56
Speaker
Uh, which is difficult to climb out of. Yeah. Well, that flips in two terms. You know what? Yeah. i I also want to throw in that just the combo that you just described is like pure Perdita keyword. Stuff and so like they're gonna be listeners who are like, oh this, you know, double masters are totally, you know Everybody in England is screaming about how double masters suck right now, you know, it's like, you know This is just like pure keyword family. Have a nice day, you know ah just And so there's there's nothing, you know bands, you know, we had a big discussion about bands doesn't forget matter It's abuelo and Francisco and like that's and that's a nice word internal. Yes. yeah Yeah, I just wanted to make that point. Thanks
00:53:41
Speaker
No, that's totally fair. So, the the lesson of the day, kids, is you kill Obuela first, and the guild mage, and the life is good. Yeah, yeah, kill the backline. well And that's the other thing that really made this match hard, is that you had Neg flipped into moderate on a 2-4-5 twice and into the guild mage to then decide that it was worth spending cards to severe spike him at the end.
00:54:05
Speaker
Um, to remove him off the table and activated. And I was like, Oh man, I, he's got me dead to rights. And the Frank was like, don't worry, bud. I got you. And just he wrote his way, uh, through those activations. And then, yeah, once I was able to get him off the table, like my throat could start coming in and dealing damage without fear of getting clicked off the table. Cause I think Vincent died to a summoned pistol arrow. Yeah. Cause he red joker at an attack. So it means it got double crit because Perdita hands him a suit and it was at three health.
00:54:34
Speaker
Um, that turned into a monster hunter, then started threatening everything else. And so the the game kind of. It's by avalanche. Yeah, it avalanche to have that. Well, and that's just what happens when you're fighting a pair of summoners, right? Like the summons happen, you're going to spiral out of control on, uh, on model count and controlling the board. Um, and like I said, most of my points were actually scored through the efforts of Sonya and the, uh, P flame.
00:54:58
Speaker
Um, cause she fought off the one necropunk that was like, yeah, I guess I have to go toe to toe with a master right now on this flank. Um, and so you can't do anything ah and otherwise anyway. So no, no, no, no.
00:55:13
Speaker
I was hoping to have him dive the P-flame and then do enough damage to kill it. ah Because if he can kill the P-flame, then Sonya has to spend her AP scoring points instead of you yeah shooting me with her burning three damage nonsense.
Strategic Insights for Players
00:55:29
Speaker
Yeah, no. Sonya punched the Necropunk to death, summoned a stalker, started making way towards the center, summoned a Thrall. Once I had control of the center, and not even control the center, but just like was able to finally fight back a bit,
00:55:41
Speaker
um and keep the Valley stunned. Because that was another big part of it was trying to keep Brian's models leashed long enough to keep my backline alive long enough to support Frank ah when he popped off. And so um that was, I would say, the heroic crux of the game. And then everything else was trying to finish out cleanup once I finally won the scrum. um But I would say that the The takeaway for me from this game is you must have absolute, if you want to play at the highest levels of play, you must have absolute mastery of the mechanics of the game itself. And that, because that Aparral discovery that I had made was stuff that I just learned kind of doing theory crafting around
00:56:29
Speaker
uh aperell because ah one of the things that people don't really realize about aperell is that it does not say uh may take a non-bonus action it's just action it's any action so being able to aperell to abuela to do listen up younging is not intuitive because most other like take a free action or take an obey effects uh specify non-bonus but it's not for her um And so that opens up, opened up a lot of the toolkit for me, because there was just those assumptions that I had made about the crew. And so it all kind of came together in this brilliant confluence of, yes, stun falls off. Yes, I'm about to take two more AP worth of attacks,
00:57:05
Speaker
ah kind of ah mastery of the mechanics of the crew itself, right? Because you have to know where stun falls off. You have to know how apparel works. You have to know that you can still flurry in that activation. All that stuff comes together.
00:57:18
Speaker
um to make those big moments work where it wouldn't have worked if I had just, you know, this is one of my five crews that I took kind of deal. I think that kind of level of mastery is difficult to attain for people. And so that was, I think, where I really got to Skill Express ah to to make this game my own, even through wades of black jokers and such. All right, so.
00:57:41
Speaker
Who would you say was your MVP model for this game? Man, let me think about this. like yeah There's a lot of different little bits there. True. But I mean, who was the MVP for it then?
00:57:55
Speaker
I mean, I think dramatically speaking, the MVP was Frank, but I think that mechanically speaking, it was probably Sonia in terms of actual points on the table. Oh, I'm like Abuela. What happened to Abuela? Like seriously, Frank's just standing there stunned otherwise, you know? True, true. I'll grants you that. Abuela did set up that that whole play. I got to grant you that.
00:58:18
Speaker
And she gives Frank more AP besides on her own activation because she's just take the listen-up young in herself I'll grant you that I think but certainly for five stones Abuela is an unsung hero of the crew. Well, huh? I mean you you can operate multiple times Correct. Yeah, so so hey Frankie did all this bullshit. Well, then someone else does operate. Hey Frankie do some more bullshit.
00:58:42
Speaker
Correct. Well, and the the kicker is that what, I mean, Frank doesn't get the benefit when he operals back to himself in his own activation, but Abuela telling him to do stuff and Perdita telling him to do stuff. He's at stat eight on that attack. Like that's gross. Cause she hands out plus ones to duels. Uh, if you're out of activation actions and staff Frank stat eight Frank is disgusting. That is hard to dodge when monks are like, and I don't know if I'm going to dodge this. That's scary. That's right.
00:59:10
Speaker
um So yeah, boilla I can definitely hear arguments that she was MVP to set that play up. Certainly. and I'm sorry. I have a quick question that I was just reading through the cards that we might, we might end up cutting, but Okay, so Op4L, after the small ints activation, another friend of family ah and the model can pitch a card to take an action, right? Yep. So it's after the small ints activation. Flurry says, after the small, it resolves a melee during its activation. So here's the thing. You know how the after resolving step of an action is still a part of the action? Same deal for the activation steps. Because the last step of your activation is end of activation effects, which is what's happening. Okay.
00:59:57
Speaker
Okay. Okay. So it's end of activation facts, which is still during a malls activation. Correct. Yeah. For the listeners at home that have that question, because yeah it is not intuitive at all. Thank you for flurrying during op oral. Well, flurry during the op rel of your own activation, like Frank can't flurry if someone tells him to do it, but, but if he up for all his abuela to do this. yes yeah Yes. It works. Um, so yeah.
01:00:24
Speaker
She just needs to get that wisdom up young and off. Yes. Yeah. And that gets a plus one to its dual because for some reason she's impressed with herself and that dual becomes easier. But, uh, yeah. So all I'm gonna say is weird. Please fix this daddy weird.
01:00:42
Speaker
Please prevent this from happening. Daddy weird, please nerf family again. No, just just don't allow them to flurry during the operale of below bang. And like, let's just stop that. Or ah change operale. Be non-bonus. Yeah, but then they'd have to write the whole keyword over again. They're not going to do that. No, you just change the timing step of operale happens after the activation step. That way the activation step's over in the operale.
01:01:07
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. but that's That's just me, though. that is ah Yeah. I don't know how they would do the time. I
Post-Game Reflections & Advice
01:01:13
Speaker
have no idea. um Honestly, though, MVP, I still as like flashy as the Frank Abuela combo was and how i and i'm truly satisfying it was to to get off in the first place. I think that Sonya still has to end up being the MVP because I know that I scored the points that I did for that game even at the end.
01:01:30
Speaker
ah Was just a confluence of Sonya being really good at scoring points so I literally had two which link stockers that I had summoned because I had she'd been killing stuff on the center line and One of them just had to like stand still while she sat there sap and flame sapping flame spamming ah On the stockers on the center line so I could drop enough ski markers with the drought seekers trigger to score points for ah espionage and death beds To like actually win the game, right?
01:01:58
Speaker
um So the amount of points that Sonya put up essentially by herself, her and the P-Flame, like I think it's between the two of them, like five of my six points came from literally the direct actions of Sonya, the summons of Sonya and the P-Flame. So at the end of the day, I still have to give it p to Sonya for MVP, even though the coolest moment was hands down, Frank and Abuela's duet of destruction. Okay, so after the game, coming out of this.
01:02:28
Speaker
What advice would you give to a bottom third player facing your crew for the first time? ah I don't know if this will make me sound like a broken record or not because I feel like I've touched on this before, but ah kill the support models. The whole reason back out to work is because Abuela stood there in the middle of the board with her five hit points hard to wound in defense four and said, go ahead, Frank, take another one.
01:02:55
Speaker
ah And if that's not on the table, then it's not possible. And the other part of this that Brian did get to do is kill the guild mage. So if you can kill the guild mage and kill Abuela, and even to a certain extent, the enslaved Nephilim, if you can rob ah a Perdita crew of its back line, the front line runs out of gas real fast.
01:03:16
Speaker
um So if you're trying to play into Perdita, I would say that the key aspect of making sure you have a good time is target priority and target access. So you' be able to get to Abuela because obviously I know you would like to kill my backline models. um If you can get to my backline models and kill them before they are able to provide value to the frontline, you're going to have a much easier time. So that's my recommendation to lower third players on how to play into a Perdita group. Okay, so what would your advice be towards middle third players?
01:03:48
Speaker
Middle third players. Let me think about this. Hmm. Don't get caught up in scrumming if you can avoid it. Uh, Perdita is certainly one of those crews that if you can't attack the back line, she is very likely to win a mid fight because really what it comes down to is Frank as Frank is the real leader of the crew. Uh, Perdita is there as a support piece so that Frank may do his grizzly work. Um, and she's pretty good at it, but for the most part, it's the Frank show. Um, and.
01:04:19
Speaker
There are not a lot of scrums that Frank loses. Now, I did mention earlier that Frank did die turn one in another game and that sucked and we're still able to come up with a win. um But unless you expect to be a Hoffman with a handful of severe is for just drawing a hand that turn. and um don't expect to win scrums. And with that being the case, don't try to fight in the center if you can. A, it gives Frank more time having to run after people. It also makes him run further away from his back line, which is a key issue. um If I'm able to fight you on the center line and my back line doesn't have to move up very much, I have a much easier time keeping them safe. Whereas if I have to go chase you down to the corners of the earth, Frank will
01:05:02
Speaker
often outpace his backline very quickly, and it's hard to support him at those ranges ah to keep him running at maximum efficiency. um So try to play spread, I guess is the best way to approach that. ah Because, you know, kill stuff very easy for lower third players, but play spread and take engagements only when you absolutely have to, I think is the middle third player approach to improving your game against a Perdita Gru.
01:05:25
Speaker
Okay. And what advice would you give to a top third player? And what do you wish you had done differently? And like, what lessons did you learn here? I moved my guild mage up a little too early and it cost him his life. I think the top third, the top third advice. Hmm. I don't think about this.
01:05:52
Speaker
Don't get so caught up on out of keyword hires there. Here's my hot take. I don't think Vincent was the necessary hire for this matchup. He spent 12 stones on that model out of keyword. And it mostly ended up being a soul stone stink for him because Vincent is at the end of the day, much easier to kill than any of his potential counterparts in ah the trans mortis fact in the trans mortis keyword. Um, like he's got hard wounded fence six and those are saucy, but he doesn't have any.
01:06:18
Speaker
Reduction naturally and because he felt like such an important piece to have to hold on to a white knuckle in order to keep him on the table I think it ended up just being an unnecessary resource drain for Brian. I agree and If he had just brought 12 stones of trans mortis Like if valedictorian got to have the whisper and he just brought like a GST viscera in addition um Or something like that. Like I could have had a much harder time trying to win that fight Um, A because it's just more card draw and B because this was suck to deal with. Um, and so I think that a lot of times people can be like.
01:06:54
Speaker
to formulaic in their approach to a game, where like, even though you are fighting a pair of summoners, spending that kind of stonage on that kind of tech isn't always worth it. I'm not saying it's never a good idea. There are obviously situations where being able to click drogos off the table is saucy. But I don't think it's a always food, especially if it detracts from the mechanics innate to the crew. Because if it gives me a weakness to chew on, that's a problem.
01:07:19
Speaker
um Which is I think what happened here, because I didn't have any good targets to chew on except for Vincent ah when the fighting started, which is why I chewed on Vincent. Because he's he's kind of the the sacrificial anode. I will always go towards the squishiest thing I can find for the AP. um And I think that's what, because that's what ran him out of stones when Frank tried to tee off on Stuck, and that's what cost Stuck his life as it was out of stones.
01:07:44
Speaker
Because if he'd had any reduction, I don't think I've been able to do it I think I killed him to like the last hit point exactly or by one or two um And if I hadn't been able to get to him if he'd just had a couple extra stones or something um I think it did have been in a much better spot if I'd had to waste my time fighting this row while stunned or whatever um I think that would have gone a lot further so I think for Top tier play people that are considering out of keyword picks to counter stuff that they think is coming anyway um don't get too reliant on your out-of-keyword picks, even when they are available, um especially if you have a really strong keyword, like trans-mortis to rely on. I think there's definitely some measured thinking to do before committing to something like that. Cool. So um I'm looking over our questions we had from Discord here, and I think we covered most of the meaty
Humorous Q&A & Episode Conclusion
01:08:38
Speaker
ones here. You see anything there that I'm missing, Clay?
01:08:42
Speaker
I mean, other than the awesome one from Jim, good that's the one I'm wrapping up with. I was going to say got to hit that one, but I think we've honestly hit everything else. ah There is one that I wanted to answer the, uh, does this feel similar to my Maxine runs? Yes, because of the adaptability, because Maxine can adapt to anything and Perdita can kind of adapt to anything. And so it felt very similar in that regard. That was a question from, uh, uh, from Nathan.
01:09:05
Speaker
and Yeah, so let's let's get to that Jim one because he does ask good questions. Yeah, because you know Jim Jim the dice man Dyson love this guy always asked some of my favorite questions on discord So you just started working for the latigo ranch What kind of hunter upgraded do you get Andre?
01:09:27
Speaker
I know that in my heart of hearts, if I'm working at the Latiga Ranch, me personally, I'm a Nephilim hunter. Why settle for lesser game when I can hunt the most impressive beasts there is to be hunted? So I think for me, it's no brainer, Nephilim hunter for sure. yeah Is that like sacrilegious or something? like i don't i don't want to I don't want to push too hard. but like Wait, wait are are you the enslaved Nephilim?
01:09:52
Speaker
Yeah, like I don't know that I was getting in a lot of deep questions about my psyche that I'm not sure I'm ready to confront yet ah But No, I think if anything oh yeah that's right. No, I think I think it's a it's a sign of respect. that That's what I choose to hunt. There you go Very much the most dangerous game approach um So yeah, nephilim hunter for sure that and having the the poissons to ignore everybody's bs auras really appeals to me So nephilim hunter for sure. Yeah All right. So before we let you go, um, any plugs or parting thoughts? the Just the usual long may the God Empress reign. Despite all those dang Nephilim hunters. That's right. She's still got it.
01:10:40
Speaker
Hey, and why we'll definitely make sure we've got the ah links for Austin. in Yes, please. Austin, the person, not Austin, the city. Right. Some information for him in the family. But you know what? Thank you for coming on. Congratulations on your wonderful new hat. Thank you. Thank you. Biggest hat and coming out and winning the largest male event this year in North America. Yeah.
01:11:07
Speaker
yeah yeah my My three-year-old loves the hat, by the way. Super psyched for that addition to her wardrobe. We need pictures. We absolutely need pictures. We need pictures of the family. in you the The biggest hat. The biggest hat. For sure. Thanks for having me. Thanks for coming on.
01:11:27
Speaker
Students of Conflict is brought to you by Top Dog Design. Check out topdogdesign dot.com for all of your Malifotrain needs. Top Dog Design, 3D printable designs to enhance your tabletop. Students of Conflict is not an official product of Nuke Miniatures LLC. All intellectual property belonging to weird miniatures is used with permission. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of entities they represent. Any content provided by our guests and or hosts are their opinion and not intended to align any group, club, organization, company, individual, or anyone or anything. Whoo!
01:12:24
Speaker
Go ahead, Frank, take another one.