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Students of Conflict #12B - Houston November Tourney: Bryan (Kirai, Envoy of the Court vs Mei Feng, Foreman)
546 Plays1 year ago
This episode we talk to Bryan about a game in his journey to a 3rd place podium at the Houston November Monthly Malifaux Tourney and his experiences trying out new toolkits to work for Gaining Grounds 4.
Hosts: Doug
Primary Guest: Bryan
Other Guest: Andre, Jonathan
Tournament:
November Malifaux Monthly Tournament - Houston, Texas - 11 Nov 2023
Tournament on Longshanks: https://www.longshanks.org/event/11684/
Encounter:
Round 1
Standard Deployment
Raid The Vaults
3- Power Ritual
4- In Your Face
7- Hold Up Their Forces
12- Protected Territory
13- Ensnare
Schemes selected: Hold Up Their Forces, Power Ritual
Crews:
Bryan’s Kirai Crew:
Size: 50 - Pool: 7
Leader:
Kirai Ankoku, Envoy Of The Court
-The Whisper
Totem(s):
Ikiryo
Hires:
Datsue Ba
-The Whisper
Lost Love
Enslaved Spirit
Enslaved Spirit 2
Seishin
Gwisin
-Grave Spirit's Touch
Shikome
-Grave Spirit's Touch
Thank-Yous:
HUGE thanks to Top Doug Design for all the terrain we play on here in Texas and for sponsoring this podcast, to Heroic Scale Gamers for streaming Lonestar Conference matches, to Wyrd Miniatures for allowing us to use their artwork from the 2nd Edition Student of Conflict, and to Dragon’s Lair Comics & Fantasy Houston for providing such an amazing space for the community.
Top Doug Design: https://www.topdougdesign.com/
Heroic Scale Gamers: https://www.youtube.com/@HeroicScaleGamers
Wyrd Miniatures: https://www.wyrd-games.net/malifaux
Dragon’s Lair Comics & Fantasy Houston: https://www.facebook.com/dlairhouston
Recommended
Transcript
00:00:10
Speaker
Straight out of the heart of Texas, here come the students of conflict, helping you become a better Malifaux player and reach the top of the podium, one game at a time.
00:00:33
Speaker
Welcome to the students of conflict. We're Clay, Nick, and Doug, or I guess just Doug, cause life happens. But anyway, we're trying to become better Malifaux players, leveling up ourselves and hopefully helping others level up as
Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:00:49
Speaker
well. We do that by interviewing top third players from the Lone Star Conference playing Malifaux tournaments across the United States and the world sometimes.
00:00:59
Speaker
not trying to capture their entire tournament journey, we want to take an in-depth look at a single game from each of our guests. What were key decisions they made before the game, during the game, and now looking back at the game, what were things they learned and can pass on to others. So our basic format is we're going to interview the guests all at once as soon as possible after the tournament.
00:01:18
Speaker
That way it's all fresh in their minds and we can get some good cross-flow between the guests. But rather than publishing one long marathon podcast, we break it up, releasing one individual podcast per guest, helping people level up one game at a time. Today we're talking to Jonathan. Hello. Andre! Hello everyone. And Brian! Hello.
Upcoming Episodes and Placements
00:01:45
Speaker
They came in second, first, and third place respectively at the November Malifaux Monthly Tournament held in Houston on November 11th, 2023, and will be releasing our discussions with them as episodes 12a through c.
00:02:03
Speaker
You'll notice things are a little bit weird today because Clay has family stuff and Nick had to cancel last minute because, well, he flipped the Black Joker IRL. So now we are talking to Mr. Brian. How are you doing, Brian? Living the dream. That's awesome. Yeah, I got third place. I'm enjoying my podium.
00:02:31
Speaker
the fruits of all your labors. I mean, it's not really that many labors to get here. And now by speaking of fruits, what percentage fruits is that? Like 10% like, uh, yeah, I feel like I'm more than the company. So like 20, 25% some high quality, like, uh, whole foods. Yeah. That's like some route stuff right there. Yeah. That is some fancy fruits of your labor.
00:02:58
Speaker
I think you could actually call that a cocktail and not just a juice juice drink. So you upgrade there.
Vegan Food Talk and Recipes
00:03:06
Speaker
And once again, we're on the this show. You weren't here earlier, Brian. I'm sorry. A little bit. No, shut up a little bit late. But we're gradually turning this podcast into a travel cooking. Oh, good luck. Yeah. Travel food blog is what we're gradually doing here.
00:03:24
Speaker
So I can bring the vegan aspect to your travel food blog. I tried that vegan food that you make, and it is fucking delicious. And everyone did love my vegan cookies at that one tournament. Very amazing. I messed up. Oh, no, I did get those. OK. This is like a year ago. Yeah, those are vegan. And they were pretty. They were super delicious and beautiful. Yeah, they're way too much work. They're like six hours to make. So I won't ever do that again.
00:03:51
Speaker
I mean, I'm certain you could make them just the cookie and just. Yeah. As opposed to fancy decorating. Doing all the maleficentals on the top. Yeah, it took a long time. They tasted better because they looked good. Truly. You eat with your eyes. Ever born.
00:04:14
Speaker
Is this a Capelli's joke? Hold on. I don't know. I really have no clue what's happening anymore. I don't have any chaperones here today. It's wild and wheeling and all Doug host episodes. So it's going to be kind of weird and loosey goosey. And I don't know. I think I think Doug wanted to ask you what your favorite holiday food was. Yes. Icebreaker. So.
Favorite Holiday Dishes
00:04:38
Speaker
uh because you know we were a little delayed on recording because you know thanksgiving and that's holiday season what is your favorite holiday dish uh pumpkin pie by far just crushes everything so good but but without whipped cream on it i don't really care for whipped cream but like just pie it's just so good
00:05:02
Speaker
That's a strong stance to take. I know. It's that's why I had to say it's because I was like, oh yeah, pumpkin pie with the icing on top or the whipped cream on top. Oh, it's so good. No, no, no, no. Like that. I do a barbarian style. Yeah, yeah. It's just cook a whole pumpkin crust. So what do you do to make the pumpkin pie vegan then? Because normally it's got eggs and milk in it.
00:05:28
Speaker
I mean, you can just buy vegan pie crust. That's what we do. Well, like the filling itself, those got usually has got the sweetened condensed milk and a couple of eggs in there. It uses coconut milk and coconut cream instead. And that gives it that nice filling. And you can't tell the difference between the two.
00:05:48
Speaker
That's awesome. Between vegan and non-vegan with pumpkin pie, it tastes the exact same. Yeah, I mean, I could see that coming. It's a custard thing. So so long as you've got it to set up the custard properly, it's... Yeah. And also, despite being born in October, I think pumpkin tastes terrible. So I'm sure it would be no difference for me. Ryan, did you need a couple of seconds there? I did. I'm very sorry. I actually want to interrupt the flow.
New Year's Family Traditions
00:06:15
Speaker
So one second. Oh, no worries. Yeah, good. Do your thing. We'll just stay in here.
00:06:18
Speaker
riff on pumpkin pie. I love pumpkin pie. I made a kick-ass pumpkin pie for Thanksgiving. So Andre, at this point, two out of two of our favorite foods are orange, which means you need to start thinking quickly about your favorite orange holiday food. I like oranges. Capri Sun. Capri Sun. Carrots. Holiday food. We eat it for Easter or something. I don't know.
00:06:46
Speaker
that's why I phrase the way it is there because you know what sometimes there's like that easter food maybe I don't know do people like some specific people do like new years and stuff too oh man I you know what maybe this year for new years I should do my new year's the tradition I grew up with but I haven't done it in a few years oh well no I mean it's not it's gonna sound somewhat unappetizing to a lot of you but
00:07:13
Speaker
my family, you always had to have sauerkraut on New Year's Day and he had to have eaten at least one bite of sauerkraut for, uh, for good luck. Okay. And growing up, I didn't really like sauerkraut. So my parents, I was like, no, you still have to eat some and I'd mix it in your mashed potatoes. But I, Oh, interesting. Oh yeah. But I love sauerkraut now. And so I've not done a pork roast and sauerkraut in a couple of years. I really want to do that. This just sounds pretty good.
00:07:41
Speaker
Yeah. Show notes. I'm writing this down. Yeah. So my family has a dish that I've christened the blitz. Um, it's, uh, much less exciting than it sounds. Uh, but it's a bed of sauerkraut with, uh, and then the combination is, uh, you dice potatoes, Kielbasa sausage, uh, onions and apples. Okay. And you, and you toss it all in, uh, brown sugar.
00:08:09
Speaker
And you let that cook down for like 20, 25 minutes, and you put that over the sauerkraut. Dude. So good. So I hear you on the sauerkraut train. And it's like 95% vegan. So like you didn't do that to Brian. You didn't have no idea. Except for the kill box that you're in there. It's only 5%. It's like, that's nothing. Well, you could find some vegan sausage. I'm sure you could. Yeah, no, that's the thing. We do a lot of vegan, like,
00:08:38
Speaker
Koles. God, it's like pigs in a blanket. Um, kolaches, kolaches, not kolaches, like the little mini ones. There's a Polish name for it. Mini kolaches, mini kolaches. But anyway, but yeah, we have a vegan one that's really good. Sounds really good. Oh, and that vegan scramble you made for us at, uh, when we were camping around for it. Oh, that was good. I need to make it.
00:09:02
Speaker
I did send you the recipe though, right? Yeah, you did, you did. I just have to actually make it. Anyway, right, so back to the Malifaux Cooking Roadshow.
Round One Strategy with Karai
00:09:13
Speaker
So what meal, I'm sorry, what round are you talking about today? I'm gonna talk about round one, because I feel like that's the most interesting round. Okay, what makes the most interesting? It wasn't a complete shutout one way or the other.
00:09:32
Speaker
Because round two, I got shut out and round three, I shut out my opponent. So like, if we're not, there's nothing to really talk about in those rounds other than I lost horribly. Can you describe that in a great detail? Yeah. So how do you feel it's just absolutely dumb stories? Right. It felt it felt bad. It showed me the error of my ways.
00:10:00
Speaker
We should just do like a pod where it's like, how do you emotionally recover from a one-stop? That's a good podcast, yes. You know? Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think. I mean, I've lost two eight in round two, so you know what? I can definitely do that right now. You can just speak to that. Well, you know how I recover. Chocolate chip cookies. Okay, so talking about round one, looks like that is your plane and the game.
00:10:29
Speaker
against Mr. Cameron there and that's going to be the raid the vaults. Yes. Which is very similar to guard the stash but with important differences.
00:10:42
Speaker
So before the tournament, how much of a chance did you have to look at gaining ground season four before this tournament started? Because I know you're not able to play in person as much lately due to, you know, kids and such. Surprisingly, I played three games that week before the tournament against Andre. I try to figure out gaining grounds.
00:11:06
Speaker
and I wasn't even sure if I was going to go to the tournament I was just trying to play with gaming grounds and then it turned out that I could go so it was a nice little surprise but uh yeah I mean I only had a little bit of practice but I wasn't going into this
00:11:19
Speaker
full breadth and scope of what I could do and all the different options. I was just, let's see what's going to happen here. I even brought a master that I've never run in a tournament and I've only played one time previously. So, okay. Well, I played twice against Andre that week, but one time before that entire week in the three years,
00:11:41
Speaker
Not other editions, but now so and then that's the karai on the envoy of the court, right? Yeah, karai in general. But yes, I brought karai spicy version. Oh, very brave. Yes. So was there something saucy about karai to the relate? This is the round for her.
00:12:00
Speaker
No, not at all. I just want to run cry. The intent was to play her three games in the competitive setting to try to figure out what works, what doesn't work and get a handle of the crew. Because obviously, like we said, I don't play that much. I don't get a lot of practice time in. So my only real reps I get in normally is at these tournaments. So got it. So I assume that there wasn't any
00:12:29
Speaker
thought into what Cameron was going to play. You were like, oh, man, I'm worried about this pick. Or you're just like, I'm going to play karai and I keep bringing hard counters. So be it. That is exactly what happened. Yes, it was. I the only other master I brought was Jack Jackdoll. And I was intentionally in case I had face you, Andre. Literally, that was the only way I was as a.
00:12:54
Speaker
I cannot run cry into the chemo. It's impossible as we tested the entire week. Yeah. So I needed an answer. That's awesome. Yeah.
00:13:07
Speaker
Okay, so before the game started, so let's see the pool, I guess it was round one, so standard deployment. We had raid the vaults, power ritual in your face, hold up their forces, protected territory, and ensnare. So when you were looking at that scheme and strategy pool, did that end up affecting your crew composition at all?
00:13:34
Speaker
Um, it did. So, uh, I had a list that I was going to run as a general list and I did some audibles, um, to try to mix up a little bit by bringing a Shikome. Um, I guess I should just say what my list was. If I can pull it up.
00:13:51
Speaker
It's Karai Envoy with the Whisper, obviously, Ikirio, Datsubao with the Whisper, Lost Love, Two Enslaved Spirits, Asheshin, a Gwissen with Great Spirits Touch, and the Shikome with Great Spirits Touch. And normally it's two Gwissen instead of the Shikome, but I figured that the Shikome could run around my opponent because he had declared Mei Fang 2.
00:14:19
Speaker
Um, and yes, if a two is mobile, but she is mobile with her scrap markers. So if I can get away from the scrap markers, she's pretty slow, right? You can sort of just like run around her. Um, and so I figured maybe this should come, it can go to flank and either he can send his crew off to the side to try to deal with her, uh, or he's going to come hit my main bubble. Uh, so I did audible, she come in there, which turned out to be the right call for the game. That's awesome.
00:14:50
Speaker
So now, which schemes did you end up taking? I ended up running with Hold Up Their Forces because that's the obvious easy one with Karai, right? Like, just really cheap summons that summon into base with you, so hold up those easy points.
00:15:07
Speaker
And then Power Ritual, because of the idea was, like I said, to run around him with my models. You know, you've got the Lost Love, who can teleport with By Your Side. I've got the Shikoma, who can run up to the side of the board. Datsubak can sort of be a little bit mobile, and she can also make other models move. I've got the Cheap, and so the Spirits can also throw stuff around. So I figured I could get around him to handle everything.
00:15:34
Speaker
And it ended up working. So, uh, you know, I, I one eight five, this game, uh, if that's a spoiler, if I should sell that to the end.
00:15:45
Speaker
Take us point by point, Brian. Yeah, yeah. So first AP, a lot of stuff activated. OK. Then what? But no. So essentially, what was really clutch, I think, in that game from the beginning was I deployed my Shikome on a far flank on the opposite of his crew. And I ran her up the board. And he had to make the decision of, am I going to throw stuff at her or am I going to let her run by me?
00:16:13
Speaker
Um, and he opted to, I think he only had a foraging on that side. Uh, he opted to just let her be. It was like, you know what? You're, you're going to get power ritual. It's fine. You know, I'll just eat it and I'll just fight you in the middle and I'll win on points that way. And so he's just like ignore the Shikomei and she ended up scoring power ritual twice and she held, uh, the, the vault marker for two rounds. So she's four points.
00:16:43
Speaker
because he just did not mess with her. Didn't throw any bodies in it. Not at all. He didn't touch her. He didn't even try. He didn't even try to divert towards her. Postgame, when we talked about it, he should have just ran the forging out and dropped the scrap marker so he could potentially go back there to harass her, and he just didn't do that. And then hold up. Like I said, it was very easy because you just summon a bunch of models. And I'm trying to fight Mei Fang,
00:17:11
Speaker
,
00:17:29
Speaker
Master Totem, it was Henry, the Golem, the Forgilling, some Gremlin model, I can't remember offhand. Sparks. Sparks and it was the guy with the gun. Survivor? Survivor, that's what it is.
00:17:51
Speaker
What was great is that the problem with Mei Fang is a lot, but the scrap markers counting as pit traps is horrible. I mean, she just like gobbles up your crew with pit trap markers.
00:18:04
Speaker
Most of Christ's crew is a corporeal, so she doesn't care about any of that, which, you know, turned out to be a counter that I wasn't planning on, but it worked out really well. Yeah, that's helpful. He had hard counter. Yeah, I mean, he had all these scrap marks out and they just weren't doing anything because he couldn't touch me.
00:18:23
Speaker
And so the Shikomi ran up one flank, Datsuba sort of like scooted around the other flank, which let the Lost Love teleport to her because Byerside is a broken ability. And then she just, the Lost Love just ran and scored the other points. He tried to go back and defend it, but he just wasn't fast enough. Not with how I was trying to hold him up, you know?
00:18:46
Speaker
Cool. During the game, what were some of the interesting lines of play and the key decision points that really made it swing? Because of your games, this one was the closest. It was an eight to five win. But eight to five can swing surprisingly fast.
00:19:02
Speaker
Yeah, so he brought ensnare and hold up and I'd focus on removing his low cost models throughout that game. I mean, even his summons that he would bring out the little forgelings that he'd pop out, I would kill those as soon as they had popped out.
00:19:18
Speaker
Essentially, by the end of the game, he didn't have anyone that could score hold up their forces because he just didn't have any cheap enough models to score off of me. He did get ensnare twice because of I. The second point, I didn't try to stop it because I realized I scored eight. I was like, OK, we can call it here. Like, I'm done activating. And he's like, aha, ensnare point two because he didn't move. And I was like, OK, well, that's fine. I'll just eat it. Not a big deal.
00:19:44
Speaker
You got to look at ensnare. Like, how do you score ensnare? That's one I don't have memorized yet. So ensnare is the first point is two scheme markers near a model that then activates. Oh, yeah, that's the one that happens at the start of a model's activate. Yes, so they activate with markers, and you score the point. And I think it's two scheme markers at the end of the game by a model. I think that's how it is.
00:20:15
Speaker
Yep. Yep. OK. And so I had it. I sort of messed up on that because I guess he was going for ensnare. Like I saw him drop the two ski markers down and I went, oh, he's going for ensnare. Let me activate this model to move it out of the bubble, not thinking. And he tagged me for the point. I could just activate the Gwissen and just trail a gourd and push it up and then ignored it, right?
00:20:46
Speaker
that's definitely one of those learning moments with the oh right remembering when the uh different scheme score it seems like there's a wider diversity of scoring timings in gaming grounds for because there's some at the start of the activation
00:21:01
Speaker
uh i know they changed in your face to be when you actually do it so you don't have to remember it because that was that was dumb well people always screwed that one up because people was like okay i got it in your face like technically you could declare that at the end of the turn but no i know you got it but and now it's you declare it when yeah it's like oh i forgot to declare it last run can you give me the point because i did do it uh you didn't declare it so i mean i don't think i've ever had that happen but
00:21:30
Speaker
It's just one of those weird things that could come up. Well, you always had to just ominous about it because there was, there is stuff that cares. Like one of the explorers society upgrades cares about the timing of scoring the scheme, but you're like, I'm just going to point out that that eight costs or higher model died. You're my master. No reason. Just thought it was interesting. Like it's such a stupid timing. So I'm glad they fixed that. I mean, it's like three inch.
00:21:53
Speaker
you know, range, which is you kind of have to measure that out. You can't just like eyeball it and say, yeah, it was probably three inches. It could have been three and a half. Like, you know, you don't know. So it's not like it's in base context. So it's really good to point that out when it happens regardless. Yeah. Like, oh, I think it was three inches, but I wasn't sure. Yeah. Right. Right. Instead of the oh, well, I killed that model, but was it within three inches at the time? Well, it's off the table. We can't go back and measure it. There's no checking the tape. Right. Yep.
00:22:20
Speaker
Yeah, I don't think I've ever had anyone call that out in the wrong way of, oh, I don't think that was within three, or I think that was out, or you didn't declare it. I don't think I've ever had that negative experience with that scheme, but the timing is fixed, and that's nice. I really do like the schemes in GG4 in general.
Game Mechanics and Summoning Importance
00:22:42
Speaker
They're nice. Brian, while Doug's distracted, how many times were you able to get your chain spirit ability off in this game, do you remember?
00:22:50
Speaker
I summoned four or five models this game. Okay, that's awesome. And so that's something I realized with Karate 2, is she lives and dies by those summons. So, you know, this game, I think I got four or five summons. Game two, I didn't get a single summon. Oh, interesting. And I lost two, eight. And then game three, I got three summons turn one, and then two more summons on turn two, and it just snowballed.
00:23:18
Speaker
Uh, so what I realized with Karai is you have to get those summons. Otherwise her crew just gets blown off the table very quickly. Uh, and that's why Andre is like, you're an idiot for not running into Quisson all the time. Cause that's how you get those models out, but you know, it's fine. For those of us who haven't played against Karai too, how does Karai go about summoning her models?
00:23:43
Speaker
Yeah, so Karai has this ability called Chain Spirit. So after an action in which any model within eight inches of her is moved through by a friendly Arame model that costs five or more, which is the Arata change to the card before it was just any Arame model, which is really broken.
00:24:03
Speaker
but now that's cost five or more. And then they have to take a willpower duel on a, it's a 12 willpower duel. If they fail it, you summon a ramen minion that costs four less in base contact. They come in with slow. Once they fail this duel, they don't have to take it again for the rest of that turn. So the idea is to go through multiple times until they eventually fail and
00:24:30
Speaker
The way you get this ability to trigger is with Adversary. So on Karai's front of card, normally Adversary is, oh, I get plus flips to hit you. She has an ability called Revenge, where any miles with Adversary or Rami with an 8 inches of her suffer a negative to willpower duels generated by her or Ikurio. And also, if they target her, it's a negative as well, but that doesn't matter for this.
00:24:58
Speaker
So it's a 12 volt power dual on a negative if they have adversary. So I mean, what your average will power is a five. So a seven on two cards is not common. And honestly, you flip an eight and a 10 to pass it. I feel like I'm ahead on the card mechanic game because your deck is now a little bit worse. Yeah.
00:25:22
Speaker
So it's just it's really good when you're just like busting through models So obviously they can charge through because our ghost they can walk through and then she also has a building called sprawling spirits where she can just target multiple or army models and just push them five inches in any direction and so they just Push out and pull through and cause a bunch of willpower duels. It's uh, it's really nice. Um
00:25:49
Speaker
I thought when I first played it, this little kooky is a little weird to try to get to go off and have to worry about trying to get adversary out the right ways. But once you start getting the timings on it, it feels pretty good. And I'm looking at that. So it's your summoning literally anytime this happens. So it's your summoning outside of return, which is a really interesting mechanic.
00:26:13
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. And there is a kooky thing where it's like, let's say that they do an ability that pushes your models and they for some reason push it through their own models that can cause the duels to happen.
00:26:26
Speaker
No one's ever going to do that. So for new players, do not do this because you're just giving her free models. But yes, so it's out of activation summoning for her, which is just wonderful. So typically you want to run, you know, Tukwissen, Datsuban, and Ikirio to like run through models and try to force these duels out.
00:26:45
Speaker
And then, you know, she gets Gaki in base with you, which have a zero-inch reach. So you can't really get away from them. You also get enslaved spirits, you know, if they have focus, enslaved spirits can deny you from using your focus, which is fun. And then they drop schemes when you kill them, which is really good in this GG. Yes, schemes are great. So, oh, here's my model. Kill it and give me a ski marker, which will give me a point. I appreciate that.
00:27:16
Speaker
And then Cheshin, which can give you cards as a kill them. So it's just, it's a lot of fun interactions with her that gives her a lot of options. And so that's why I said, you know, when you, when you're getting those summons off, it, that's when her crew feels good. And if you cannot get them off, like she just, she falls apart and she's worthless. Which, I mean, confirmed very well into my test games with Andre, right? My test games with Andre showed that, uh,
00:27:40
Speaker
without the summons, like she died. So it's like, oh, it'll be fine. I'll I'll run her this weekend and it'll be good. And I'll just make sure it gets them out. And I ran into my game two and my point was just like, no, you're not going to get any summons. I'm just going to top deck all these duels, even on negatives. And you're just going to die is as rough.
00:28:00
Speaker
Also, I think the game I ran to Shikome is still like... Yeah. So, Brian, how do you feel Shikome pair into this whole chain spirits thing? Because they're not incorporeal, right? They don't help at all. But the list I set it on does run to Shikome for that running around scheming while still having to listen.
00:28:21
Speaker
purpose. I still have the best of all worlds. The double question. It's not busted. It's not. No, no, no, no. You shared with me earlier the other day or was that today or? No, I shared with you a model list today. OK. Oh, yeah. I don't know. I had a lot of fun with last night. Hmm. It was great. Is it crack that's fun? Uh, it's crack that's adjacent. Yeah.
00:28:51
Speaker
I mean, it's just as annoying, but it's more annoying in the sense of scoring points and denying points rather than just killing your models with failed duels. So like, yeah, it felt really good.
00:29:05
Speaker
Yeah. All right. So what would you say was the MVP model of your crew this game? And why was it the Chikomi? By far it's a Chikomi. I mean, she scored half my points, but I mean, that's, that's only because he let it happen. Right. If he would have killed her, you know, we rewind and he chases her down and tries to harass her.
00:29:30
Speaker
I probably still score one point from Power Ritual. And then he has to send something after her, which then makes the rest of his bubble weaker. And I'm able to handle the middle a lot more. So I don't know if that would have, she'd probably still be the MVP because she would appeal something important out of the bubble he was using to try to hold me up. So she's just, she's fast. She drops game markers. I wish she had a bonus that was better, but you know, she can't have everything.
00:30:00
Speaker
No. Well, I mean, they're somewhat dangerous with it was like a two, three, six damage track. So if you send something after Shikome, it has to actually have some weight to it.
00:30:13
Speaker
And if if you send something that's not going to hurt her and she kills it, she just got significantly better. Oh, yeah. Good point. She gets her her soul hunter upgrade. So you can't try to stop her with like a little scheme runner. You had to send something medium to work. Yeah. Yeah. Worthwhile to go handle her. And that's something that's not in the middle of dealing with karate kario, the Gwissen.
00:30:37
Speaker
That's just not handling the meat of the crew. So I think that's why I was like, oh, I think I have to run at least one of these because, you know, you're it puts you in a bad spot of do I leave her alone to layer score or do I cut off 10 points to go deal with this while I fight this summoning crew that's going to overwhelm me with little trash models.
00:31:02
Speaker
Yeah, I was just looking at you coming there girl Yeah puncture access Oh, I killed something so you kill some stupid little trash mop and go sweet I am glorious now
00:31:19
Speaker
I get all the triggers, yes. In my very limited experience with this GG, if you're not doing the same thing that your opponent is, if you're picking completely different schemes, you have some really hard decisions to make. If you see a shakome rushing past you, how much resources are you willing to put into stopping that? Do you even have the resources to stop it and still score your points?
00:31:40
Speaker
And usually the answer is no. Right. That's something I've noticed about the GG is the more AP you have, the better.
Evolution of Malifaux and Strategic Play
00:31:48
Speaker
And I think that the game is going to scale away from Killafoe and Elite Martyrite Cruise and go more towards wider cruise. Cheaper models that can do multiple things that can spin the AP and
00:32:03
Speaker
You know, drop the three AP on the ballots at your home and your home area because you have the spare AP to do it. I'm not saying it's good. Don't do it. But, um,
00:32:14
Speaker
I think that's the way this is going to go as things evolve. And that's why I think that Shikome is going to be really, really good in GG4 is because she's going to be able to kill all that trash. She's going to be able to hunt down your little ski marker. She finally has a job. Yeah, she has a great job. And when she does her job, she becomes a good girl. She's rewarding.
00:32:37
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Well, and we've got, you know, coming out soon, TM, the ashes of Malifaux. So then we're going to have to see, well, how does that affect things? That's going to be interesting. I'm not looking forward to that. The Last of Us zombies just mushrooms and fungus. Oh, yeah. It doesn't excite me.
00:33:02
Speaker
I get used to really like your zombie crew. Yeah. Are those the wrong flavor of zombies? Yeah, I. The problem is, I started in Riser's because I love the idea of just zombies and there is no zombies anymore. Like it's just gone. I blame Lady Justice. You should just kill the the main the main dude. And now it's it's weird. It's just different.
00:33:30
Speaker
I mean, you can always run a sort of rotten and don't get that. I'm not burning soul stones to summon a mindless zombie. It's just not happening. Oh, man. I love how terrible was her. Oh, I know. Because she was so good. She was second issue. She was horribly broken. And you have to admit that she was horribly. Oh, she was. It was it was wonderful. I loved it. Oh, God. So much. Oh, yeah. No, I wish it was slightly better. Huh?
00:34:01
Speaker
Having flashbacks there. Yeah. Oh, but yeah, no, like I'm sure I'm sure it'll be fine. I'm sure I'll be good. I'm just not excited. But I mean, it's interesting, like so we've totally destabilized the game state and I don't know how many months it's going to take for that book to come out, but that's going to be another like huge rapid shift within a few months. So it's going to be kind of like, you know, the wild west of Malifaux. I think at least for a little bit.
00:34:23
Speaker
where no one knows what they're doing. And yeah, it was supposedly coming out in the fall. We're knocking on the door of winter now. So honestly, releases for pretty much every company right now out there is messed up still. Yeah, I mean, I'm OK with the delay, though, like it's it's fine. Let's get used to GG for and give us a new shiny in three or four months. Hey, here's something new to try because I mean,
00:34:52
Speaker
Apparently I'm still experimenting with masters. I've never really played before because I've never played cry and I'm trying her out. I'm also trying out a big morning to is another one I've been looking at recently just trying something different than the Stuck routine. I've been on for three years. Mm hmm. Just it's all boring at this point. We had like, you know, masters like me morning to seem really fun and it's possible that they're actually viable now.
00:35:19
Speaker
with the new strats and schemes. So it's nice to go back to these things that have been sitting on your shelf for a while and actually pull them out and actually be hopeful for a chance at a win.
00:35:29
Speaker
Yeah, I know. I know. I've been pulling out some cruises like, OK, to learn the gaining grounds are going to bring back crews that I haven't played in a while. It's like, OK, putting a bunch of titanium on the board or throwing, you know, the stupid titanium dinosaur Marcus list on the board or just trying a few things is like tried and true. But I haven't played in a while because they didn't have as much juice in GG three. Right. Yeah.
00:35:52
Speaker
and just trying something that's like, ooh, old favorites. And then, hey, and trying out new things. Like I've been having fun with a stupid tequila list that was glorious that I'm certain we'll talk about later. I'm sure there's a lot of jank that's gonna come out with this GG as people try to figure out how to break these.
00:36:14
Speaker
Um, cause like fighting the fighting GG of GG three was just like, how much ass can you beat? And there are limits to push on that one, but it's not necessarily fun when it's, uh, your ass getting beat. So I think, uh, turning Malifaux back to Malifaux from Killofaux, I think it's going to do a lot of people, a lot of good. Yeah.
00:36:38
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, that's why I've been looking at Nick morning, too, because I feel like he suffered so hard and kill a foe. But now if it goes away of where people are going to start going more wide with their crews and bringing cheaper models.
00:36:53
Speaker
He'll actually build a shine because his keyword is terrible. But they're cheap. They can be efficient with the upgrades. I mean, like, oh, they went through a ski marker and got the ski marker upgrade. OK, you hit them to drop the ski marker to score points. Right. Like that's there's a lot of fun little kooky things you could do with these crews have been collecting dust for the last two or three years. And that that's actually really exciting for me.
00:37:22
Speaker
The quick read I've got on it is that while there is definitely more of a move back towards interact-y, scheme-y stuff, it feels like there is more different timings of scoring, different ways to make those interacts happen because
00:37:45
Speaker
I for one, I did not like gaining grams two very much. Gaining grams two felt too, all right, I'm gonna run around and be tricksy and be, oh, you can't hit me, because it doesn't matter. And it's being nothing but tricksiness. Gaining grams three steered a little bit away from that, which personally, I enjoyed that. But it feels like it's not quite as
00:38:10
Speaker
Trixie Schemy as GG2, but that's it. I mean I've not played enough games of GG4 yet to really get the full feel on it.
00:38:21
Speaker
Yeah, I would agree it doesn't feel as tricksy, but I mean, the schemes are definitely a lot more schemey. I think when like losing assassinate and vendetta and hit martyrs and hit a martyrs, I think those three schemes that got dropped changed the game state quite a bit. I agree. Well, those were three that honestly, if one of those were in the pool, chances are I was going to take one of those almost every single time.
00:38:49
Speaker
Yeah, and now it's like, oh, maybe I don't need to worry about my master getting bodied on turn two because the assassin's on the pool and then you spend more time dropping scheme markers and interacting. So I feel like it's going to be very, it's going to be different and I'm looking forward to see how this shakes out. I think having crews or masters that are quote unquote force multipliers is going to be a big thing.
00:39:19
Speaker
because having it where it's like, hey, I make my making the entire crew more efficient or having things where maybe you're not going for the big heavy hitter master, but more of a support match who makes everyone else function better could be a strong pick there. I think I'm suspicious that you are probably looking at your Marcus one going, this is viable again. This is what this sounds like.
00:39:46
Speaker
Oh, the support master that can make other things better than not hit that hard. Well, I was also thinking titanium. Because titanium too is the, hey, you get those little bubbles of titanium. You got that reach all over the table. It's an interesting thought.
00:40:06
Speaker
So Brian, for the bottom third of players, playing into... Sorry, people. Back on track, gentlemen.
00:40:30
Speaker
Thank you, Andre. You're welcome. He's like, I want to talk now. Yeah. Yeah. So what advice would you give to a player facing your crew for the first time? The biggest thing to watch out for and to cry if it's the first time is it summons and making sure you have the cars in hand to cheat to either deny the adversary in order to pass as willpower duels.
00:40:59
Speaker
maybe bring stuff that prevents, you know, placement or prevent summoning. You have to be very careful with your placements and those summons. Because of, let's say that you've run three models grouped up together. I'm going to throw a Guissant through all three of those. I will spend two AP doing that to make you take three duels to have three chances of summoning a model. So you have to be very conscious of our summons as a new player.
00:41:30
Speaker
And what would you say would be some bad gotcha moments against a karate crew? It would be the same thing, unfortunately, because. Yeah, I think the summary, even out of activation summoning, which you nailed earlier, is what surprises people, because if most summon masters go, I'm going to spit AP and actions to summon, but she doesn't have to. She can just have a model walk through you and start bringing bodies on the board.
00:41:59
Speaker
to provide the API need to overwhelm you. And if you're not ready for that, you're going to have a bad time. I think for bottom third players, you also have to think about vengeance as well. Because vengeance can be a really painful experience. And it definitely changes your thoughts about if I want to actually attack this thing or not. That's true. Especially with some of vengeance too. Yeah. It can really change your decision making.
00:42:25
Speaker
Right. Do you really want to get swing as a model with a one, two, three, when you're going to get a damage back?
00:42:31
Speaker
Right. Yeah. It definitely changes the mindset of how you play into Malathos because you don't want to take the damage and you have to watch your placement to keep her from summoning out of activation. Yeah.
Countering Karai's Tactics
00:42:43
Speaker
Cool. So now what advice would you give to kind of a middle third player? You know, someone who's experienced babies ran into Karai before looking to give you a challenging game and, you know, hoping if they keep their gameplay tied that they might actually, you know, take you down.
00:43:00
Speaker
So the biggest thing to watch out for is you want to try to burn the Gwissen down without taking the vengeance back, like the vengeance damage back. And the way you do that is by forcing them to spend cards on take the hit. So you shoot their juicy model, force them to drop a card out of hand, place the Gwissen, get shot, and they don't vengeance back because you didn't technically target that model. So vengeance doesn't trigger.
00:43:28
Speaker
If you can kill those Gwissons early enough, the amount of summon power that their crew has goes significantly down. Because at that point, at least for me, I have Datuba and Akirio. And Akirio is going to die every turn. So whenever she's resummoned, she comes in with Stagger so she can't be pushed. And she's moved three after the Stagger.
00:43:54
Speaker
If you can remove the Gwissen, a lot of Korai's power goes way down, and you want to do it while getting around the vengeance. So force them to just take the hit, and then also do big, chunky hits of damage to make sure that they die before the vengeance triggers. How many wounds does a Gwissen have? So obviously incorporeal. Obviously incorporeal, so they are seven. So they're seven life.
00:44:22
Speaker
you probably need two solid hits to take them out, like two big hits. And if you can get one of those hits using take the hits, that's going to help you significantly. And usually the Gwissner are going to have great spirits touch on them, which gives them healing and terrifying. Terrifying doesn't matter for take the hit. That also goes through that tech. So you want to force them to use that ability
00:44:48
Speaker
to keep Karai alive. One blasts and shockwaves also don't proc vengeance, right? Yep, correct. Because it's the only actions that are targeting and damaging this model. So if you attack the model and you miss, or you do zero damage because in Caporial, you don't take vengeance back. But with that vengeance, too, you want to make sure you're doing big, chunky bits of damage and doing what you can to get around that ability. Cool. So.
00:45:19
Speaker
What advice would you give a top third player? And, you know, what would you wish you had done differently this game? And what have you learned this game? Um, kill cry. That's at the end of the day, if you can remove cry, everything falls apart. You can't really score your schemes because you can't bring out the models.
00:45:39
Speaker
you can't summon your chat that you need to deny them so if you have a way of removing her even though this this edition isn't Killifo anymore
00:45:50
Speaker
I feel bad saying that, because in the previous episode, we're like, oh, don't play Killafoe, but kill Dreamer early. Same thing, this is the Killafoe, but kill Karai. Just body masters. The game still needs to be that way. That's exactly what Jonathan said with Dreamer. It's like, so don't play Killafoe. Play Killafoe on this model.
00:46:11
Speaker
Yes. I mean, that's the thing is, and I think it's important because like what John said with Dreamer is we're talking about summoning masters. You need to body summoning masters. Right. Like there's, there's no way around it. There is no, oh, just let them summon and go do your own thing because you're going to lose the AP game. And GG four is all about AP efficiency.
00:46:36
Speaker
And so if you're just letting your opponent summon these chaff models, they're going to go drop ski markers and deny you dropping your own ski markers.
Tournament Reflections and Roster Considerations
00:46:43
Speaker
You're going to lose this game.
00:46:46
Speaker
you need to remove that summoning master as early as possible. And that's going to require you to punch her to force the take the hits. That's going to force you to either reposition her out of the take the hit range or do blasts on her or shockwaves. But anything you do to kill her or even just remove her hand because she doesn't have a lot of card efficiency.
00:47:13
Speaker
She's very squishy as long as you don't have Adversary. Her only defensive tech is, haha, you have Adversary, you're on negatives to hit me. And I guess different for this game, I don't know if I would do much, if anything, that differently other than not
00:47:36
Speaker
be like, Oh, I'll just call it here. And I will score it eight, four and played into I think Andre. No, I'll play it into. Yeah, we'll play the Andre round two, I think. So in fact, you prefer that you did not that you let. That's right. The Marine dodged the big boys. You'll take a solid third.
00:47:58
Speaker
No, I was really looking forward to playing Jack Doll and to go around to get degrees. OK, fair enough. That was the one round that he's going to be good into into Nakima rather is going to be really bad. So yeah. Yeah. But I think in general to do better with her, it would be you have to bring the two question to some of the models and you have to spend time so many of those models that you have to spend.
00:48:25
Speaker
your AP, your thoughts, your energy, your cards, you have to get those summons out. Otherwise, Karai falls apart. And so that is my takeaway from this whole tournament. Cool. Do you think this tournament was enough to add Karai to your toolkit?
00:48:39
Speaker
Absolutely. It was a lot of fun. I don't know if she's going to be one of my top masters, but the problem is my previous toolkit isn't as good anymore, right? So I loved Riva, I loved Jack Doll, I loved Von Stuck. I think Jack Doll has fallen off because he can't get around the board as quickly, at least version one can't. And Riva just...
00:49:05
Speaker
Yeah, she same thing. So I'm looking for new tools and crime made slide into their actors tournament. Nice. Cool. So do you have any plugs or parting thoughts before we go? Nope.
00:49:21
Speaker
I think everything is good on this side. Cool. Yeah. Hey, everybody. Thank you all so much for coming and dealing with me as being the sole host today. I know it was a little more scattered than normal without the cat wrangler that is clay. Well, thankfully, we had Andre here to keep us on point. I was glad to be of service. Cool. Well, thank you so much for coming.
00:49:51
Speaker
Appreciate it.
00:50:09
Speaker
All intellectual property belonging to weird miniatures is used with permission. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of entities they represent. Any content provided by our guests and or hosts are their opinion and not intended to align any group, club, organization, company, individual, or anyone or anything. Whoo!
00:50:51
Speaker
and Brian. Hello there, I'm Brian. Super convinced.