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Stay Sparked #8 - "Modern Relationships"
9 Plays2 years ago
In Episode 8 we look at the many different ways that humans can date and be in romantic relationships. We look at monogamy and non-monogamy. We talk about trust and communication. We talk about the books and tools that have helped us in our evolving relationship styles. We talked about how relationships are powerful tools for growth and explored new relationship models in the modern world.
Books Mentioned:
"Opening Up" Tristan Taormino
"Nonviolent Communication" Marshall Rosenberg PhD
"PolySecure" Jessica Fern
"Radical Honesty"
HOSTS
JANUS REDMOON is a 10-time Burner, and has spent the last several years as an advocate for psychedelic medicine research and treatment. He is the founder and CEO of NuWorld Nutritionals, a nutritional supplement company providing mushroom-based, all-natural products to improve and maintain health for both body and mind.
http://www.nuworldnutritionals.com
BETSY FINKLEHOO is a healer of massage therapy, CranioSacral and Dharma Coaching. She is an 8 year burner and has spent the last several years seeped in the personal development world, cultivating her passion for transformation and growth. Her recent project, The Power Affirmation Journal and virtual group empowers women to cultivate self awareness and healthy habits so they can live in greater freedom, mind body and spirit.
HALCYON is full-time Love Ambassador. He is the founder of Hug Nation YouTube channel and daily zoom gratitude circles. He is co-founder of the Pink Heart Burning Man camp and the 1st Saturdays project for people experiencing homelessness. In his free time he coaches groups and individuals on how to live joyfully and authentically. His other podcast is "Gratuitous Boobs."
http://links.hugnation.com
MASSIVE Thank you to Dub Sutra for their beautiful opening music. Check out their incredible music catalogue online.
https://dubsutra.com
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Modern Inspirations
00:00:02
Speaker
Welcome to Stay Sparked.
00:00:04
Speaker
On this show, we explore how to stay inspired in the modern world with the most profound lessons from Burning Man, psychedelics, relationships, entrepreneurship, spirituality, travel, and more.
Dating and Relationships Today
00:00:17
Speaker
On today's episode of Stay Sparked, we talk about dating and relating in the modern age.
00:00:24
Speaker
We touch on topics from sharing where we've come from and what was modeled to us by our parents.
00:00:29
Speaker
We talk about polyamory, monogamy, long-term partnership, dating.
00:00:35
Speaker
We share some of the tools and resources that have helped us on our journey of being in partnership and in the dating world.
Meet the Hosts and Gratitude Expressions
00:00:41
Speaker
We talked a lot about communication and trust.
00:00:44
Speaker
We talked about couples therapy, how relationships are powerful tools for growth, and explored new relationship models in the modern world.
00:00:51
Speaker
Enjoy the episode.
00:00:53
Speaker
Thank you Dub Sutra for that beautiful intro song.
00:00:57
Speaker
Welcome to Stay Sparked.
00:00:58
Speaker
We are three friends who have been having powerful conversations and have decided that we should be having these in public.
00:01:05
Speaker
So we welcome you to join us.
00:01:07
Speaker
My name is Halcyon.
00:01:08
Speaker
I am the host of the Hug Nation YouTube channel, and I'm joined by first Betsy, who is the author and creator of the Power Affirmation Journal.
00:01:16
Speaker
Welcome, Betsy.
00:01:17
Speaker
Thank you so much, Halcyon.
00:01:20
Speaker
And also Yanus, who is the owner and CEO of New World Nutritionals, who brings mushroom-based supplements to help heal the world.
00:01:28
Speaker
Welcome, Yanus.
00:01:29
Speaker
Thank you for having me, you guys.
00:01:30
Speaker
Yeah, I'm so glad to have you guys here.
00:01:33
Speaker
We like to start with a little bit of gratitude.
00:01:36
Speaker
So Betsy, would you share something that you're grateful for?
00:01:39
Speaker
Yes, I will share my gratitude for the recent rains we've had here in San Diego.
00:01:46
Speaker
It has just been so powerful to experience the wild nature, especially here where we've been sort of dry.
00:01:56
Speaker
And so we've got a lot of rain and it finally clear yesterday and today and just really puts things in perspective around the gift of sunshine.
00:02:05
Speaker
So appreciating the rain too.
00:02:09
Speaker
uh although there was a there was a a river that i had to drive through that made me question the value of rain for just a few moments but yay for rain uh yeah news what is something you're grateful for uh similarly similarly to that i'm grateful for abundance that is uh kind of coming through so far uh this year and that's in kind of all levels like we've got an abundance of rain um
00:02:38
Speaker
lately and there has just been an abundance of in my life of good friends and business opportunities and good communication as well.
00:02:51
Speaker
So I'm just, I'm feeling very abundant.
00:02:53
Speaker
I'm very present and aware to the abundance that is kind of flowing around me these days at the moment.
00:02:59
Speaker
So yeah, definitely a lot of gratitude for that.
00:03:03
Speaker
Yes.
Influences on Relationship Models
00:03:04
Speaker
And I will share some gratitude for the women in my life.
00:03:10
Speaker
I'm finding that I'm surrounded by teachers and I've noticed that the ones that are bringing me the most powerful lessons and I'm feeling the most humbled by wisdom and directions that I need to hear and learn from and be role modeled is from the women in my life.
00:03:26
Speaker
So I'm super grateful for them.
00:03:30
Speaker
And speaking of women and men and others and connections, today we're going to be talking about a new model, new ways of relating.
00:03:43
Speaker
Last week, we talked about how we have each found our ways to new ways of career and work.
00:03:50
Speaker
And this week, we're going to be talking about how the models of relationships in all different ways are kind of
00:03:57
Speaker
breaking apart and we're finding new ways of relating.
00:03:59
Speaker
So we wanted to talk about the way it has to be or should be into the ways that work for us.
00:04:04
Speaker
Here we are in 2023 and I keep feeling like there's just more and more people that I see and know that are exploring relationships in new and different ways beyond
00:04:16
Speaker
monogamy and just really even within monogamy seeing couples that are creating new ways of cultivating intimacy and there's just so much more accessibility these days to to support and to workshops and trainings and communication and you know we live in a time where there's a lot of evolution happening
00:04:40
Speaker
within relationship dynamics and so i think i'd actually love to instigate a little curiosity from you guys um around the the um divorce generation right i know i personally was raised by mom and dad that were divorced when i was one and it seems very common so curious maybe we could start there are you guys parents together um did they separate what's your history in that
00:05:09
Speaker
Well, with me real quick, like my parents were never together.
Monogamy and Long-term Relationships
00:05:15
Speaker
So there was no like, there was no divorce model.
00:05:18
Speaker
And I'm wondering how this works for you, Betsy, because I mean, by the time, you know, they're divorced when you're one, like that's, that's just your that's normal for you by the time your awareness comes around.
00:05:28
Speaker
So that's kind of what's my situation as well.
00:05:30
Speaker
So I never really had a
00:05:33
Speaker
You know, I would see the whole traditional marriage model for a lot of my friends growing up, but not growing up in that.
00:05:41
Speaker
That didn't necessarily strike me as like,
00:05:45
Speaker
that had to be the way that people related.
00:05:49
Speaker
Like, oh, you get married and you stay married.
00:05:50
Speaker
It's like, I think my, even I'm one of the, from a slightly older generation, but still, I mean, we're all in the same generation, but I never really felt like that was like the, I mean, we were told that was a baseline normal.
00:06:05
Speaker
I didn't necessarily think that even as a child, I was like, okay, there's lots of different ways to go about that.
00:06:12
Speaker
So,
00:06:12
Speaker
Um, so yeah, so the whole, the whole divorce aspect didn't really land, uh, like on my lap from, you know, in my life.
00:06:19
Speaker
So.
00:06:21
Speaker
my experience is quite different.
00:06:22
Speaker
So my parents are still together.
00:06:24
Speaker
And I grew up in a suburban community where almost everyone's parents were still together.
00:06:29
Speaker
And so it was a pretty big deal if someone had separated parents.
00:06:33
Speaker
And then when I got to be more college age, a number of my friends' parents did split.
00:06:39
Speaker
A lot of them were in the, we're going to stay together for the kids kind of model.
00:06:43
Speaker
And so there were, I did witness a lot of
00:06:46
Speaker
of what looked like family units, but were together because of the agreement that they had in place, not because of real bonds or trust or anything like that.
00:07:00
Speaker
So I think as we're talking, I wonder how that's interesting because
00:07:04
Speaker
I almost all of my relationships for my entire life have been open to some degree, have been non-monogamous in some degree.
00:07:13
Speaker
And I think one of the things that I really fought in early on, even if I was in a relationship that we didn't practice and didn't see other people outside of our relationship, it was always very important for me
00:07:24
Speaker
to not be bound by contract, to not be staying together because of some agreement, but instead be together because we chose to.
00:07:34
Speaker
And I wonder, first time I've been thinking about it, perhaps it's because I saw so many people that were living because of an agreement more than love even.
00:07:47
Speaker
Wow, interesting to kind of look back and consider where we've come from and how it may have shaped how we relate now.
00:07:54
Speaker
Well, what about you, Betsy?
00:07:56
Speaker
I mean, being a being a child of divorce, I mean, do you feel that whether it did, but how much impact would you say that had on shaping your your views of just relationship?
00:08:09
Speaker
Yeah, that's interesting.
00:08:10
Speaker
You know, I also, I haven't really considered how it's impacted my relationships because you're right.
00:08:16
Speaker
It was so normal for me.
00:08:17
Speaker
That was just how it was.
00:08:19
Speaker
My dad was the weekend dad.
00:08:20
Speaker
My mom had us during the week, me and my sisters.
00:08:24
Speaker
And it was just the way things were.
00:08:26
Speaker
And then my dad was remarried and he had a
00:08:29
Speaker
a wife and so there's this whole other model of relationship through my teenage years and i personally have spent a large percentage of my adult life in long-term primarily monogamous relationship more of i would say more time in relationship than not since i was 16 i was in a two and a half year relationship and then i was in a
00:08:51
Speaker
three year relationship.
00:08:53
Speaker
And then shortly after that, four and a half year, and then I was the longest has been a five and a half year relationship.
00:08:58
Speaker
And so I feel like maybe in a way that has impacted me to want to explore deep
00:09:07
Speaker
intimate relationship and to cultivate longevity, maybe because my mom and dad didn't.
00:09:13
Speaker
But really, I do feel like what I got to see with what my mom and dad modeled to me is that it's okay to part if it's not aligned.
00:09:24
Speaker
And so in my most of my long term relationships, they were
00:09:31
Speaker
mutual breakups.
00:09:33
Speaker
I don't even like that word.
00:09:34
Speaker
They were, we did uncoupling, conscious uncoupling, where we both realized that it was not aligned after trying for some time.
00:09:43
Speaker
And so perhaps maybe that did have an influence on me to see like that it's okay that we don't have to go for the long haul, the sort of idea that we have to be with the same person for our whole life.
00:09:54
Speaker
That is such a significant
00:09:58
Speaker
permission to recognize that a relationship does not have to be forever.
00:10:03
Speaker
And if I look back at my relationships, it is so clear that each relationship was needed for me to grow to be in the person that I could be in the next relationship.
00:10:14
Speaker
I am a sub
00:10:15
Speaker
such a better partner than I used to be.
00:10:18
Speaker
So thank you all my exes and my former partners for the patience to help me grow.
00:10:26
Speaker
But none of them were relationships that could have possibly lasted a lifetime.
00:10:32
Speaker
It's just, we just weren't, we grew in different ways.
00:10:35
Speaker
Yeah, I think we've gotten to the point where, and I think we've been there for a little while, where we don't view the end of a romance, a romantic relationship as a failure.
00:10:45
Speaker
Like it was, it's, it's, it's a chapter.
00:10:48
Speaker
Um, and it's a, it's a chapter that ideally, like you're saying, Halicene, like it's, it allows you to experience a level of growth, uh, that just, you know, helps to, you know, inform and shape you to be a better person overall, uh, not just for the next person that you date, but just for, just for you and your overall life's journey.
00:11:06
Speaker
Um, I think that's, that's primarily what our relationships are supposed to be is they're supposed to, they're vehicles to help make us better people.
00:11:15
Speaker
And then we learn how to relate to a specific person who plays a specific role in our lives.
00:11:20
Speaker
That just allows you to kind of take those lessons and apply them to how you relate to others and the rest of the world.
00:11:27
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:11:28
Speaker
Well said.
00:11:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:30
Speaker
And, you know, to honor the choice that some people, a lot of people actually do commit to the lifelong journey of partnership.
00:11:37
Speaker
And it really celebrates the people that have found their partner, that they know that they're going to go through whatever fire comes their way.
00:11:45
Speaker
to be able to just keep growing through it.
00:11:48
Speaker
You know, that's a really beautiful, courageous path to commit to.
00:11:52
Speaker
And I have noticed that if I'm talking to a couple that says they've been together for, say, 20 years or 30 years, the response is always like, wow, really?
00:12:05
Speaker
Wow, you've been together for that long?
00:12:06
Speaker
Wow.
00:12:07
Speaker
because I don't really know that many people that have been together for that many years.
00:12:13
Speaker
And my question always to those couples is what's the secret to your longevity?
00:12:18
Speaker
You know, what is that?
00:12:19
Speaker
And there's always different answers, but some of the answers that I've heard that I always just remember is one is space in the togetherness, that they allow each other to go do things on their own and to have their own spaces.
00:12:35
Speaker
And then the other was to, which is a concept I've been considering around, not expecting the other person to give them all of the things that they need.
00:12:45
Speaker
Right.
00:12:45
Speaker
And so like I really contemplate that a lot around like this sort of pressure because I've I've done that in the past.
00:12:52
Speaker
And unknowingly, as you said, Halcyon, it's like the partner that I was many years ago has learned so much from the journey, right, of expecting that my primary partner is going to fill all of my needs intellectually, romantically, the support, emotional support, spiritually, sexually, all of the things.
00:13:13
Speaker
And that's a lot for one person.
00:13:15
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:17
Speaker
Yeah, I wanted to touch on what you said, Betsy, about the a little bit more on how much I respect and the value of that that true commitment.
00:13:27
Speaker
I went to a counselor, couples counselor when I was in a relationship that was having difficulty and was that we'd been together two years.
00:13:34
Speaker
And as we sat down with the counselor, he's like, you're not married.
00:13:38
Speaker
Well, why are you here?
00:13:41
Speaker
You know, like if you're dating, that's so you can figure out who you can make things work with.
00:13:45
Speaker
My job is a marriage counselor.
00:13:46
Speaker
I'm going to help you figure it out when you have no choice, when you have to make it work.
00:13:51
Speaker
That's when, you know, that's the, that's when the real lessons happen.
00:13:54
Speaker
And I was like, damn, like, and I really think that there's something to that.
00:13:57
Speaker
Like all
Commitment and Relationship Dynamics
00:13:58
Speaker
there, there is a whole nother level of spiritual growth that happens when you do not have the option of leave, or you do not give yourself the option to leave when things are hard.
00:14:08
Speaker
So much respect to the people that are doing that.
00:14:11
Speaker
And I went through a period where I couldn't imagine having a long-term relationship.
00:14:18
Speaker
I couldn't imagine being like my parents.
00:14:19
Speaker
And now I'm like, boy, that actually, I kind of wouldn't mind growing old with somebody.
00:14:25
Speaker
That would be pretty awesome.
00:14:28
Speaker
You hear that ladies out there?
00:14:31
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:32
Speaker
I mean, there's, yeah, there is definitely an appeal.
00:14:34
Speaker
I mean, it's certainly the older I get.
00:14:37
Speaker
the more I see that there is something to that.
00:14:42
Speaker
And the idea of spending that amount of time and really growing old alongside with somebody else.
00:14:51
Speaker
Several years ago, there's a
00:14:53
Speaker
I had a friend of mine who was my age now in his 50s, and he was quite the playboy, cavalier, and really just a charming mofo.
00:15:05
Speaker
So he just was running through the ladies and having a great old time.
00:15:10
Speaker
But he said he kind of did that.
00:15:12
Speaker
And that's that's fun.
00:15:13
Speaker
And that's cute.
00:15:14
Speaker
But you get to a certain point in your life where you're like the old person at the party.
00:15:18
Speaker
And and, you know, there's a saying in like hip hop circles, like you never want to be the oldest person at the club.
00:15:25
Speaker
You always want to.
00:15:27
Speaker
If you're the oldest person at the club, then you're you're in the wrong club.
00:15:30
Speaker
And my friend's point, like in a lunch we had, he was like, don't be me.
00:15:36
Speaker
He's like, I kind of frittered away.
00:15:38
Speaker
I did.
00:15:38
Speaker
I did the whole.
00:15:40
Speaker
you know, dashing playboy archetype thing, as long as I could do it until it just wasn't cute anymore.
00:15:45
Speaker
And now here I am alone and wondering like, what's the, what's the, and what am I going to do with my life as far?
00:15:52
Speaker
Cause I really want relationship and good news.
00:15:55
Speaker
Happy ending is that, you know, you're never too old for that.
00:15:58
Speaker
So you can always like, I'm, I'm also currently in the best relationship I've ever had.
00:16:03
Speaker
And that, you know, that didn't happen until, you know,
00:16:06
Speaker
this stage of my life.
00:16:07
Speaker
So, so yeah, so it's never, never too late to like experience that thing you're wanting to experience, you know, in relating.
Exploring Non-Monogamous Models
00:16:15
Speaker
Well, and, and also what's this kind of the topic that we're on is that growing old with someone doesn't necessarily mean growing old in a monogamous relationship.
00:16:24
Speaker
You know, there, we are having all different types of ways that you can grow old with people with different types of agreements and different types of, of, of,
00:16:34
Speaker
you know there are people who are growing old as uh polycules you know and houses with uh full of people and um you know there was a time when i was wondering you know what it's going to be like when i grow old and someone was like well won't you have your theme camp around you to take care of you you know when you're an old man i was like huh i guess that's a possibility too yeah and you know what it's so amazing the time that we're living in because there's so much resource
00:17:01
Speaker
and there's been a lot of exploration of people that have been you know writing books about this new way of relating you know poly poly secure is a book that has just mapped out all these different ways of opening the relationship it's not just black and white you know there's just so many different ways that people do it and i feel like not so long ago it this type of relating might have been you know shamed or
00:17:29
Speaker
you have to keep it behind closed doors but now there's just there's even meetups i'm seeing meetups people are having to have conversations so that way it can become more graceful in the process of discovering what works for you because it's not it's going to be different for each person
00:17:47
Speaker
And we should acknowledge, which we talked about before this, we are not experts in this field.
00:17:52
Speaker
You know, we are discussing this topic because it is relevant.
00:17:56
Speaker
We will put some links in the show notes of some resources that we find to be of people who are should be listened to in terms of this path of growth.
00:18:05
Speaker
Yes.
00:18:05
Speaker
And I'd love to actually touch on something before we keep going on something you mentioned around that commitment of long-term partnership.
00:18:14
Speaker
Something that I have found a lot of value in, in some of my previous relationships is a practice called hand fasting.
00:18:22
Speaker
It's, it's like, it's a pagan Celtic tradition where you are married essentially for one year and one day at a time.
00:18:32
Speaker
And that was really powerful for me and my partner at the time because it gave us that commitment to really see through to the end of that each year.
00:18:43
Speaker
And so no matter what would come up within that year, even when we hit some of these really major road bumps,
00:18:49
Speaker
We were committed.
00:18:50
Speaker
We were like, all right, we were going to have to get through this because we we made our agreements and we made our vows and multiple times that really helped us to find our way through into the big breakthrough that was needed to happen.
00:19:02
Speaker
Otherwise, if we didn't have that commitment, we may have just been in fight or flight and just like left and be like, whatever.
00:19:10
Speaker
And then likely, of course, what happens if we repeat the pattern with another partner?
00:19:15
Speaker
And so those that practice was really helpful.
00:19:18
Speaker
And then each year we got a chance to check in.
00:19:21
Speaker
Do we want to renew our hand fasting agreement?
00:19:25
Speaker
And then we would check in and we did it for four years.
00:19:29
Speaker
And then in the final year, we both were kind of like, oh, I don't I don't think I really want to.
00:19:36
Speaker
And then we slowly started to unwind our relationship.
00:19:39
Speaker
And it was really powerful to have that framework to be able to keep coming back to not only for that, the support of the commitment, but also for me, I love ceremony.
00:19:49
Speaker
I think ceremony is such an important part of life and, you know, weddings are so beautiful, right?
00:19:55
Speaker
When people get married, it's such a celebration and such an opportunity for, to the clarification of values and vows and devotion, right?
00:20:03
Speaker
Like I, I think it would be so amazing if people would get married every five years or every time.
00:20:07
Speaker
I actually know some people that they do the, you know, every 10 year.
00:20:11
Speaker
And so I just want to share that here.
00:20:15
Speaker
That is a powerful framework for a relationship for sure.
00:20:19
Speaker
I know a number of people that do that.
00:20:21
Speaker
And having that idea, that year-long commitment does allow you to really like, all right, well, you know, we're only, even if you're in it, like, then it's really not going well.
00:20:31
Speaker
It's like, okay, well,
00:20:32
Speaker
we only have another five months, we can work this out.
00:20:36
Speaker
Or you know that you've got that you're going to really revisit this whole commitment thing.
00:20:40
Speaker
And that kind of takes a burden off takes a weight off.
00:20:44
Speaker
And it's almost like it kind of works, kind of like kind of like sneaks away, it kind of comes at it from a sneaky direction allows you to bring some ease into relationship and be like, okay, so
00:20:55
Speaker
It's only five months, not that big of a deal.
00:20:57
Speaker
And then there's this lightness and all of a sudden that thing you're struggling with doesn't seem like such a struggle anymore.
00:21:02
Speaker
You're able to get through it, you're able to drop it.
00:21:04
Speaker
And by the time that five months comes around, you're bouncing, you got your pep, you got your pep and your step back.
00:21:09
Speaker
And it's like, yeah, we can do this.
00:21:10
Speaker
So it's just taking the weight off.
00:21:14
Speaker
It's a good way to take the weight off of a relationship.
00:21:16
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:21:17
Speaker
And then it gives us an opportunity to receive support, ask for support.
00:21:21
Speaker
Because if we get through that and then it like repeats again in a month or two, because that can happen in relationship is like, oh, we just keep hitting the same roadblock.
00:21:29
Speaker
What is that?
00:21:30
Speaker
Why does this keep happening?
00:21:32
Speaker
That's when you call in the support, right?
00:21:34
Speaker
Get some coaching or some guidance or do some deeper personal growth work, right?
00:21:40
Speaker
And then at the end of that year, it's like, yeah, we haven't actually come to a breakthrough on it.
00:21:43
Speaker
And I don't think we're going to.
00:21:45
Speaker
This is the time for our split, but maybe, maybe not.
Therapy and Communication in Relationships
00:21:49
Speaker
Yeah, I can go.
00:21:49
Speaker
We can go a lot of different directions for sure.
00:21:52
Speaker
You mentioned coaching and or couples therapy.
00:21:56
Speaker
And I just want to say I've had really positive experiences bringing in a outside party to help with communication when things are tough.
00:22:06
Speaker
And I think that I've never done a year commitment idea.
00:22:11
Speaker
I think that would be fantastic for me because sometimes when things get tense, the problem, the issue
00:22:18
Speaker
You know, the thoughts start to come like I can't deal with this forever, you know, you know, but one of the ways another, you know, for the hand fest, I think is a great way to get through it.
00:22:25
Speaker
Another way is to have somebody who can help interpret the words and help slow down the conversation and help.
00:22:35
Speaker
are you hearing what is being said over here?
00:22:37
Speaker
And I think both people often you go because you want to get a referee who's going to say that you're right.
00:22:41
Speaker
But if it's a good therapist, they get you to a place where you're communicating in a way where you're listening, listening, listening, and often finding that the tension is not where you think it is.
00:22:54
Speaker
And there are ways to get to a place of harmony that if you can find the compromises and find the
00:23:03
Speaker
the ways to see each other in the way that they need to be seen.
00:23:06
Speaker
And to kind of put a bow on the whole couple therapy thing.
00:23:12
Speaker
One, I've noticed just among my friends, and I've seen this corroborated elsewhere, just the one thing that for couples that who ended up not, who ended up calling it quits for various reasons after a certain time, and also went through couples therapy,
00:23:29
Speaker
They all said they had wished, like all of them, 100% of them, that the couples that broke up, all of them said they wished they had started couples therapy sooner than they did.
00:23:38
Speaker
And because a lot of times it's like, why are we going to couples therapy?
00:23:42
Speaker
This is a six-month relationship so far.
00:23:45
Speaker
It's too early for that.
00:23:46
Speaker
It's never too early for that.
00:23:49
Speaker
You definitely want your relationship to have a certain ease and flow.
00:23:52
Speaker
But if you're really feeling like you want to be with this person,
00:23:55
Speaker
It doesn't matter how long you're in it.
00:23:56
Speaker
If you're really feeling like, wow, we've got some real hurdles that we're having trouble navigating.
00:24:01
Speaker
It's never too early to start talking to somebody.
00:24:04
Speaker
And a lot of relationships can be saved by that, by just getting it out there, having that third party to really kind of witness you and give you a different perspective.
00:24:15
Speaker
It's valuable and never too early to consider that.
00:24:19
Speaker
Totally.
00:24:19
Speaker
It's preventative medicine.
00:24:21
Speaker
Exactly.
00:24:22
Speaker
Exactly.
00:24:23
Speaker
And I like to consider like shifting this, even the term of couples therapy to couples coaching, right?
00:24:29
Speaker
Because couples therapy is, oh, we're going to couples therapy.
00:24:31
Speaker
That means that like something's wrong.
00:24:33
Speaker
We need to fix something.
00:24:35
Speaker
Yeah, it's like physical therapy.
00:24:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:37
Speaker
Right.
00:24:37
Speaker
Couples coaching is like, hey, let's just enhance.
00:24:40
Speaker
Let's like keep, you know, this going well.
00:24:43
Speaker
And, you know, that's actually one of the biggest things that I've recently come to because my previous partner would refer to it as grains of sand.
00:24:52
Speaker
Right.
00:24:53
Speaker
There's a couple of grains of sand and then we're like, OK, well, let's just keep going.
00:24:57
Speaker
And then there's another grain of sand, grain of sand, grain of sand.
00:24:59
Speaker
And then it's built up, built up, built up.
00:25:01
Speaker
Right.
00:25:02
Speaker
And then it's like this.
00:25:03
Speaker
this mountain that we're under and then we're like expecting a couple therapy sessions to help on like clear all of that and it's just a lot it's a lot and so yeah that was a really important takeaway from my most recent partnership is to start early
00:25:20
Speaker
to really go into receiving support, receiving inspiration, whether that is a psychological coaching mindset kind of things, more intimacy coaching, different types of coaching to help to support these kinds of
00:25:35
Speaker
maybe sometimes hard conversations, which, you know, one I'll actually bring up that I think is kind of related to what we're talking about is that it feels like everybody has this innate attraction to all kinds of different people, right?
00:25:52
Speaker
We're
00:25:52
Speaker
whether it's like just spontaneous, like, wow, that person is so beautiful.
00:25:58
Speaker
And I have experienced that like, oh, it's not safe to say to my monogamous partner that I think that person's beautiful.
00:26:05
Speaker
And so I'll just keep it to myself and feel shameful about having an attraction that I'm not going to do anything about, right?
00:26:11
Speaker
And that becomes a grain of sand, right?
00:26:13
Speaker
It's a hiding.
00:26:14
Speaker
And so to be able to have a kind of safe space to communicate these kinds of things,
00:26:19
Speaker
And I feel like this opens the doorway for more freedom to express who we truly are and know that it's safe to feel things.
00:26:30
Speaker
You know?
00:26:32
Speaker
I think that is the crux of some of this monogamy versus non-monogamy things is in monogamy, you have this very understood of
00:26:47
Speaker
guide of how you react and what is allowed.
00:26:51
Speaker
And even if you fall outside of that in your thoughts and your desires, you act within the boundaries that you're supposed to act.
00:26:58
Speaker
And so we have a lot of people in our culture that, you know, they publicly, they are committed to their partners and they have affairs.
00:27:07
Speaker
That's just, you know, the way that they practice monogamy is through deceit.
00:27:12
Speaker
But the opportunity of types of openness is that you can build true trust and connection by being truly honest and saying, I am having these desires, whether I act on them or not.
00:27:24
Speaker
I am finding this person attractive.
00:27:26
Speaker
I am feeling these things.
00:27:29
Speaker
And when it's good, even if it's scary to hear those things, you recognize, wow, you trusted me enough to tell me this thing?
00:27:39
Speaker
And you could hear this and you still are there for me.
00:27:44
Speaker
And then the connection just gets deeper and deeper.
00:27:46
Speaker
And I remember how scared I was when I had a partner saying,
00:27:52
Speaker
kind of encouraging me to tell me what my thoughts were about a person that I was really attracted to and I really felt a spark with.
00:28:00
Speaker
And I was so scared, you know, that that they were going to snap at me or be hurt.
00:28:07
Speaker
I was hurt their feelings, you know, and and I just so didn't want to bring this tension and uncomfortableness.
00:28:13
Speaker
And then I shared it.
00:28:16
Speaker
They were so happy for me.
00:28:17
Speaker
They thought it was cute, you know, and they encouraged me to ask them out.
00:28:22
Speaker
I did ask the person out and the person said, oh gosh, I don't see you in that way.
00:28:26
Speaker
So I was then got embarrassed and then my partner was able to be like, oh, it's okay and console me.
00:28:31
Speaker
But I was like, that built so much trust between us and I felt so connected to this other human being that was there for me entirely as a human, not with an expectation of my loyalty to them overall.
00:28:49
Speaker
It's a high level of communication right there.
00:28:52
Speaker
That's really powerful, Halcyon.
00:28:54
Speaker
Thank you for sharing that.
00:28:55
Speaker
And I really want to honor and acknowledge that the vulnerability that it takes to be able to share something like that.
00:29:03
Speaker
And then also the level of security within your partner at the time for her to feel okay within herself.
00:29:12
Speaker
I think those are some of the ingredients that provide that space for deepening.
00:29:16
Speaker
Right.
00:29:17
Speaker
And I feel like that communication, there's a couple of books I want to mention.
00:29:22
Speaker
We'll share, hopefully many of you know what nonviolent, nonviolent communication.
00:29:27
Speaker
That's a really powerful tool for couples to be able to share things vulnerably in a safe and loving way.
00:29:35
Speaker
And then also the other one is radical honesty.
00:29:39
Speaker
That's a really powerful book to learn how to, to share these very deep things.
00:29:44
Speaker
Mm hmm.
00:29:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:45
Speaker
And it all comes down to like building a foundation of trust, um, that I'm going to be able to share my feelings or my wants or desires, uh, to my partner without the fear of being judged.
00:29:59
Speaker
Um, and that, you know, that can take a while to cultivate, but it's, it's worth, it's worth cultivating.
00:30:05
Speaker
And once you get to that, that place where, um,
00:30:10
Speaker
Where you just feel like you can trust your partner and your partner feels the same about you, that just opens up.
00:30:15
Speaker
And that's why I think a lot of people are starting to find their ways into different forms of relating, you know, aside from monogamy, where they're like, well, no, I actually, I trust my partner.
00:30:26
Speaker
I can voice my desires.
00:30:27
Speaker
I'm not going to act on them.
00:30:29
Speaker
but I feel safe enough to voice them.
00:30:33
Speaker
And also to the point where, well, I actually do have desire for this person.
00:30:38
Speaker
And what would that look like if we were to act on that?
00:30:42
Speaker
Is there space in this relationship for that?
00:30:46
Speaker
And there often isn't unless there is a foundation of trust.
00:30:52
Speaker
The idea that you can have some sort of...
00:30:56
Speaker
a connection with somebody and it's not, it doesn't threaten the relationship and got quite the contrary.
00:31:02
Speaker
It actually expands the relationship where you're able to, like we were talking about before, where one person doesn't have to be everything to the other person.
Stories from Non-Monogamous Experiences
00:31:10
Speaker
It's like, no, I'm actually allowed to,
00:31:13
Speaker
you know, get my needs fulfilled, you know, out, you know, from somebody outside of the relationship.
00:31:19
Speaker
And it doesn't take away from the primary relationship.
00:31:22
Speaker
And it's not always, it's not always sexual.
00:31:24
Speaker
Like there's the idea of, well, this is like, this is my sports boyfriend.
00:31:27
Speaker
You know, my, my husband,
00:31:29
Speaker
doesn't enjoy rock climbing or doesn't enjoy water skiing or, or, or snowboarding or what have you.
00:31:36
Speaker
So I, there, there's a person I, I hang out with, which, you know, some people would call, oh, that's, that's your friend.
00:31:41
Speaker
It's like, well, well, no, it's like, it's, you're, you're allowed to do this thing with somebody else.
00:31:45
Speaker
And there may or may not be an attraction, but it's not, it's not a threat to the, to the primary relationship.
00:31:50
Speaker
It doesn't always have to manifest itself sexually.
00:31:53
Speaker
It can just be like, well, I actually really enjoy spending time with this person.
00:31:56
Speaker
I get juiced up from that.
00:31:59
Speaker
Not just sexually, but it's like, it's great.
00:32:01
Speaker
It's time, it's creating space in the relationship, like we mentioned earlier.
00:32:05
Speaker
We don't have to do everything with our partners or be everything to our partners.
00:32:10
Speaker
We can seek that elsewhere.
00:32:12
Speaker
It doesn't always have to wind up in the bedroom.
00:32:14
Speaker
It can be in any realm.
00:32:18
Speaker
Right, and that's why this deep communication is so important because we can feel jealousy in all different ways.
00:32:29
Speaker
Some people have no jealousy about physical connections with their partners and other people.
00:32:33
Speaker
some people have jealousy with emotional connections even if there's no physical connections and i definitely know couples that have had real struggles when there is a clearly a loving relationship that is is growing outside of the marriage there's no physicalness at all but it's difficult to have your partner's heart connecting with another person and you talked about this expansion and this growth and it
00:33:00
Speaker
part of the reason why there's so much growth and expansion is because often it's difficult.
00:33:04
Speaker
In the same way that any sort of growth happens, the first part is hard.
00:33:10
Speaker
When you first hear the news that your partner has desires to someone else or wants to spend time with someone else, the feelings are rarely, until you're at a really evolved state that I have never been at quite, is the first feeling is like, what?
00:33:26
Speaker
And you kind of got to work through that.
00:33:28
Speaker
And there's this concept of compersion that people talk about, which is
00:33:33
Speaker
this cycle of you first get this feeling of like a jealousy feeling of maybe a constriction, some physicalness almost of like, ah, this.
00:33:42
Speaker
And then you look at this relationship, look at the love that you have for this person and recognize that what you real love is what you really want for this person is their joy and their happiness.
00:33:54
Speaker
And to facilitate the joy of this person you love
00:33:59
Speaker
brings you joy.
00:34:01
Speaker
And then you get to this other side of like, okay, I just went through this compersion.
00:34:06
Speaker
I am happy for you.
00:34:09
Speaker
Enjoy yourself.
00:34:11
Speaker
Yeah, I want to share the most romantic story I ever heard was at a swingers part or swingers convention.
00:34:17
Speaker
And we were going around the room introducing ourselves and, and people had all sorts of descriptions of their relationships.
00:34:24
Speaker
Because the other thing about when you get outside of monogamy is that everything can be different and you really have to negotiate and figure out what your boundaries
Relationships as Vehicles for Expansion
00:34:33
Speaker
are.
00:34:33
Speaker
So like one person they started and they said, I'm Jack, this is Jenny.
00:34:39
Speaker
Uh,
00:34:40
Speaker
Jenny likes other women, so we will meet other women and I usually watch occasionally they'll invite me in, but you know, we have these threesomes and that's kind of our thing.
00:34:48
Speaker
Next guy is like,
00:34:51
Speaker
I'm Todd and this is Amanda.
00:34:53
Speaker
Amanda likes gang bangs.
00:34:54
Speaker
So we put ads in local swingers paper, you know, nine to 12 guys will come over and, you know, we've got some basic rules like, you know, they can come on her face.
00:35:03
Speaker
I mean, they can come on her chest or her face, but they can't kiss her.
00:35:06
Speaker
That's kind of my line.
00:35:07
Speaker
No kissing my wife.
00:35:07
Speaker
You know, and I'm like, holy fucking shit.
00:35:10
Speaker
And then the next guy, he's like, he's a little bit older.
00:35:14
Speaker
He's like, I'm Michael, and this is Peggy Sue, and I love Peggy Sue more than anything in the world.
00:35:21
Speaker
I would give her anything.
00:35:23
Speaker
And if she wanted a rare peach from the top of a mountaintop, I would swim an ocean, I would climb the mountain, I would bring her that peach.
00:35:30
Speaker
But the one thing I can't give her is that tingly, exciting feeling of a new lover.
00:35:36
Speaker
So I happily give her that.
00:35:39
Speaker
And I was like, oh my God, that's the most romantic thing I've ever heard.
00:35:44
Speaker
And he's talking about letting other men fuck his wife.
00:35:47
Speaker
And it just totally changed my whole concept of openness and non-monogamy.
00:35:53
Speaker
Wow.
00:35:54
Speaker
So beautiful.
00:35:55
Speaker
I got chills hearing that.
00:35:56
Speaker
That is really special.
00:35:59
Speaker
Yeah, it was the gangbang part that really got me.
00:36:02
Speaker
That was...
00:36:04
Speaker
That's what I, that's what in my heart was just palpitating.
00:36:08
Speaker
So yeah.
00:36:10
Speaker
It's part of the same story because we all have our things.
00:36:13
Speaker
Yeah, context is key for sure.
00:36:17
Speaker
And contrast.
00:36:17
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely.
00:36:19
Speaker
I like to speak to the nature of contraction and expansion that you're speaking to.
00:36:23
Speaker
Just kind of a little echo of that.
00:36:25
Speaker
The deeper we go, the higher we fly, right?
00:36:29
Speaker
It's like when we're willing to go into some of those like, ooh, edgy feelings, ooh, contraction.
00:36:35
Speaker
Like, okay, I'm going to go into it.
00:36:37
Speaker
I'm going to feel it.
00:36:38
Speaker
then there's a likelihood of greater expansion right when the tide pulls out low tide then it comes back in with even more power and force right is the nature of our experience of this universe our hearts do the same thing
00:36:54
Speaker
And I think that's what we're all looking for in a relationship is expansion, expanded possibilities, like what is available to me in my life and experience is expanded by my relationship or by my relationship with this specific person.
00:37:10
Speaker
And sometimes like we're in a relationship and it feels like contraction.
00:37:14
Speaker
Like, well, it's like, wow, my world is actually kind of shrinking based on this relationship.
00:37:18
Speaker
Like my possibilities are reduced by being in this relationship.
00:37:23
Speaker
That's not a good feeling.
00:37:24
Speaker
And I think that's a lot of what brings us to, you know,
00:37:29
Speaker
therapy or coming to conclusions or thoughts like, wow, this relationship is not feeling right.
00:37:35
Speaker
It's like we're feeling that sense of contraction and reduced possibilities.
00:37:41
Speaker
So I think that's what the non-traditional model of relationship, ethical non-monogamy or up to polyamory, which are two different things.
00:37:51
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:52
Speaker
You know, they allow an expansion of what's possible in our in our worlds.
00:37:56
Speaker
And I think that's what everybody's
Key Insights on Trust and Communication
00:37:58
Speaker
kind of looking for.
00:37:58
Speaker
And that's just this is just one one way of going about that.
00:38:02
Speaker
sometimes being confined is like being swaddled and is really comfortable and there's nothing wrong you know if a feeling of tight boundaries and very strict monogamous guidelines is it can be a beautiful thing and so it really depends on that's why the communication is so critical because
00:38:26
Speaker
Whether it's, you know, getting a gangbang or a 70 year marriage of monogamy, you know, as long as you're on the same page, you can grow in it.
00:38:38
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:38:39
Speaker
So well said.
00:38:40
Speaker
Yes, communication is a key.
00:38:42
Speaker
And I feel like that that's one of the biggest sparks for me in this conversation is the ability to be able to find our way through whatever relating model that we're choosing, whether that's monogamy or dating or poly or marriage, all of it.
00:38:59
Speaker
The communication is such a valuable thing.
00:39:02
Speaker
And
00:39:03
Speaker
I feel very strongly that it, you know, there isn't training in school, like it would be so lovely imagine if when we all turned 1516 and we go into you know high school communication class.
00:39:18
Speaker
communication like how to have a healthy communication with a partner.
00:39:22
Speaker
That's not something that is traditionally taught.
00:39:25
Speaker
We have to learn on our own and what a gift it is to get to have resources like NVC or different tools to be able to learn how to effectively communicate with people that we love the most.
00:39:39
Speaker
I think that that's an essential part of expansion.
00:39:43
Speaker
Yeah, agreed.
00:39:45
Speaker
I'll leave with my spark is someone gave me the advice that if you're going to dabble in open relationships, you need to get comfortable saying things that other people don't want to hear.
00:40:00
Speaker
you can't protect people and keep your truth in because you're afraid that if you say the truth, they will be bothered by it.
00:40:08
Speaker
You have to trust that the truth is the way through.
00:40:11
Speaker
And even if it does bother them, that that is part of the growth towards the deeper trust.
00:40:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:40:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:40:20
Speaker
You got a closing spark, Yanus?
00:40:24
Speaker
Gosh.
00:40:24
Speaker
And, uh,
00:40:26
Speaker
I don't know.
00:40:27
Speaker
It's every time I think about it, it comes down to the same thing you're saying.
00:40:33
Speaker
It all comes down to trust and communication.
00:40:38
Speaker
No matter what, maybe it's a little bit more advanced, but it's a spark that has worked for me in my current relationship.
00:40:48
Speaker
No matter how crunchy things might get, we both have gotten to a place where we know
00:40:57
Speaker
We're going through Mordor, but we know we're going to come out the other side of it.
00:41:03
Speaker
And just having that belief and that knowledge just allows us to trust each other and get to the point where even if communication is just proving super challenging and we're kind of almost like looping at the same thing,
00:41:19
Speaker
that we can, there's been a couple of times where we just stop and we're like, can we just like stop fighting right now?
00:41:25
Speaker
Is that possible?
00:41:26
Speaker
And it's like without coming to some sort of resolution about this.
00:41:30
Speaker
And it's like, actually, yeah, that is possible.
00:41:33
Speaker
How about we just not shelve it, but just let it go, just let it go.
00:41:37
Speaker
And we've actually pulled that off a couple of times and kind of impressed ourselves and be like, wow, okay, all right, this is good.
00:41:44
Speaker
And it comes down to that trust.
00:41:46
Speaker
And knowing that, you know, no matter how our connection will look, the trust is there that it's going to keep, we're going to keep going because it's fun.
00:41:55
Speaker
It's all, it's more fun than anything else.
00:41:56
Speaker
So yeah, trust and communication.
00:41:58
Speaker
That's, that's the spark that, you know, is, is working for me for sure.
Closing and Affirmations
00:42:04
Speaker
Man, I, I, I, when is your book coming out with the title, Can We Stop Fighting?
00:42:09
Speaker
That's beautiful.
00:42:09
Speaker
It's a good one.
00:42:15
Speaker
Well, before we close out with an affirmation, where can people find you in the world?
00:42:23
Speaker
Well, I want to also, before we get into that, I think Betsy might have a spark for us.
00:42:30
Speaker
I don't think you shared one yet, did you?
00:42:33
Speaker
I did.
00:42:34
Speaker
I shared about, I think, communication.
00:42:36
Speaker
Oh, yes.
00:42:36
Speaker
So communication.
00:42:36
Speaker
Yes.
00:42:37
Speaker
Yes.
00:42:37
Speaker
Correct.
00:42:38
Speaker
All right.
00:42:39
Speaker
So, yes.
00:42:40
Speaker
So, yeah.
00:42:41
Speaker
So, Betsy, where can we find your goodness at out in the world?
00:42:46
Speaker
Thank you.
00:42:47
Speaker
Well, my work in the world currently, it does have to do with communication, but communication with ourselves.
00:42:54
Speaker
How do we communicate with the different parts of ourselves?
00:42:58
Speaker
And so I have a journal and a virtual course called the Power Affirmation Journal and Virtual Course.
00:43:03
Speaker
which is essentially a platform and a tool to be able to cultivate deeper sense of self-awareness of what our thoughts and beliefs are and a confident strategy to be able to reprogram belief systems that are no longer aligned.
00:43:18
Speaker
So that way we can think more positively about who we are and really create better, healthier relationships with ourselves.
00:43:24
Speaker
And then of course, then the by-product is we have healthier relationships with others.
00:43:29
Speaker
So that's on poweraffirmation.com.
00:43:32
Speaker
uh type in sparked for 10 off your journal awesome and i i to reiterate that which we didn't talk too much about here but all your personal growth is also therapeutic for your relationship so thank you that's a and speaking of therapeutic growth oh where can we find you in the world yanus
00:43:56
Speaker
I have a company called, it's a nutritional supplement company called New World Nutritionals and that's spelled N-U, World Nutritionals.
00:44:03
Speaker
And it's a line of nutritional supplements that are mushroom based that are all about enhancing your mood, improving your mood, improving your outlook.
00:44:13
Speaker
It affects like all things like neurologically, helps to kind of rewire your brain to have you see things in a more positive direction.
00:44:22
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:23
Speaker
yeah, getting a lot of good results and people are really enjoying it as a, um, you know, my partner calls it a spa day for your brain and, um, it's getting, getting good results out there and getting a lot of good feedback from all sorts of populations, whether it's elderly or teenagers or, or what have you.
00:44:38
Speaker
So it's, uh, definitely worth looking into, uh, it's new world nutritionals.com and you can use the code spark for 10% off any, um, any of our products.
00:44:48
Speaker
Awesome.
00:44:49
Speaker
And I am hosting the Hug Nation YouTube channel.
00:44:53
Speaker
Also, I do multiple times a day live streams online and you can find your way to any of them at links.hugnation.com.
00:45:02
Speaker
And I would love to see you.
00:45:05
Speaker
Ah, Betsy, would you close us out with an affirmation?
00:45:09
Speaker
Yes, I love affirmations.
00:45:11
Speaker
This is a way to focus the mind and infuse our thoughts with good things that we want to be thinking of.
00:45:16
Speaker
So we'll do a little practice where we close our eyes, hand on the heart if that feels good for you, and just relax with a deep breath.
00:45:30
Speaker
I trust my voice.
00:45:33
Speaker
I trust my voice.
00:45:36
Speaker
I am worthy of love.
00:45:39
Speaker
I allow my heart to expand to new capacities of feeling.
00:45:46
Speaker
I trust my voice.
00:45:49
Speaker
I am worthy of love.
00:45:51
Speaker
I am worthy of love.
00:45:53
Speaker
I am worthy of evolutionary love.
00:45:56
Speaker
Yes, I am.
00:45:58
Speaker
And so it is.
00:46:02
Speaker
And so it is.
00:46:04
Speaker
Thank you both.
00:46:05
Speaker
Love you.
00:46:06
Speaker
Thank you, everyone.
00:46:07
Speaker
Stay sparked.
00:46:09
Speaker
They spark people.