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From Posts to Pours: Justin from Whisky In Isolations Indie Bottling Breakout
29 Plays13 days ago
In this debut episode of the Non Chill Filtered Podcast, Jez sits down with Justin from Whisky In Isolation—a name that started in lockdown and has since matured into a full-bodied indie bottler. From clever puns on bottle labels to serious collabs with top Aussie distilleries, Justin’s carving out a fresh lane in the Australian whisky scene. We chat origin stories, blending trials, barrel picks, and the storytelling power of a good dram (and a better pun).
Pull yourself a pour and join us for a conversation that’s anything but chill filtered.
Transcript
Introduction of Host and Guest
00:00:00
Jez
What's up guys, it is Jez here from non- Chill Filter, the fresh podcast that is coming out of Drunk Fox Studios. I'm super excited to have the very first guest under the new brand, Mr. Justin Farmer.
00:00:15
Jez
Sir, how are you?
00:00:17
Justin
I'm very good, mate. And I didn't actually realise was guest number one, so that's a beautiful privilege.
00:00:24
Jez
um at At the, I guess, the meantime, everyone can be guest number one and then we'll just stack it however we want to, I guess.
00:00:31
Justin
Oh, this is a good point, but but if you do do me first, then the only way is probably up, isn't it?
00:00:36
Jez
Well, I was actually thinking you have me on here, so it's really just all downhill from here. I
00:00:42
Justin
Anyway.
00:00:42
Jez
ah
00:00:45
Jez
ah love it.
Justin's Entry into Whiskey
00:00:46
Jez
Okay, so if people don't know you, I'd love to kind of crack into it with your comic book zero one origin story. How did you land in this wonderful world of whiskey?
00:01:01
Jez
Cause I know our friendship and where we kind of started.
00:01:04
Justin
Yeah.
00:01:04
Jez
And then if we want to I guess, start there and then see where it takes us.
00:01:08
Justin
I should have like prep like ah sort of a list of bullet points. that I didn't go on. I don't go on for 20 minutes, but I guess.
00:01:14
Jez
No, go 20 minutes. We've got an hour. So we'll keep this a fireside. I love it.
00:01:18
Justin
Oh look, but look, try trying to keep it like fairly short and sweet. Look arrived in Australia now. 14 years ago and and whiskey was like kind of something that, that I enjoyed back home and you, and you'd kind of think, cause I'm originally from the UK and you'd kind of think cool coming from you yeah, thanks.
00:01:39
Jez
I wouldn't have guessed.
00:01:42
Justin
Coming from the UK, having, having Scotland on, on, on the doorstep kind of, you know, whiskey should be, well, not, not necessarily and something that you expect to be into, but I actually got more into whiskey when I came so Australia and obviously the Australian whiskey scene is still very, very new when you compare it to Scotland, you know, the modern ah Australian whiskey industry, 1992.
Comparing Whiskey Industries: Australia vs Scotland
00:02:08
Justin
we're 35 years here and it's 200, 300 years. Look, absolutely. Yeah, like Bill Lucks, two hundred three hundred g
00:02:15
Jez
Wait, is it only 1992?
00:02:15
Justin
um but look they
00:02:19
Jez
Like, obviously it it dates back before then, but we're talking like major distillers.
00:02:19
Justin
the the
00:02:22
Justin
absolutely
00:02:23
Jez
Like we...
00:02:24
Justin
ah yeah like ah like bill luck
00:02:26
Jez
No distilling history.
00:02:28
Justin
Oh, I mean, and and look, there was whiskey being distilled here kind of um what like what what what what yeah why way back.
00:02:33
Jez
Oh, my bathtub.
00:02:37
Jez
Mm.
00:02:37
Justin
um but the the And like the guys at Bakery Hill and whatever kind of potentially sort of and argue the toss as well. But like it's kind of seen as the modern Australian like whiskey industry began again, 1992, with Locke.
00:02:55
Justin
with the ah um like in in in in earnest, um weather whether like the the argument as to who's the oldest distillery, that's again, that's ah that's for for another another podcast, which you can kind of and get into.
00:03:11
Jez
Thank you.
00:03:14
Justin
But like Lark actually was was the beginning of my proper whiskey journey when I came to and Australia. And I did a whiskey tour there And, and, you know, and, and fell in, fell in love with, uh, whiskey, like without knowing, um, a great deal, um, about it. And from that tour, I kind of joined like how a lot of people I, I seen here in Australia kind of start their whiskey journey by joining clubs like and the whiskey club.
00:03:50
Justin
Uh, there was whiskey loop was like around the Scotch Fault whiskey society. And just kind of starting to find my own and space within whiskey and just enjoying it casually.
00:04:05
Justin
ah Kind of like fast forward then whatever it is, that seven, eight years to ah the fun and games of and COVID. And we find ourselves all like locked up going slowly stir crazy, trying to find things to you know, and entertain entertain ourselves, make sure we're not, you know, killing ah siblings, family, kids, whatever.
00:04:29
Jez
yeah
00:04:32
Justin
And, you know, and my wife said, look, you like taking photographs, you like writing. I've kind of built up this collection of whiskey that I was interested exploring further.
Whiskey Blogging During Isolation
00:04:45
Justin
So it was like, well, photograph the bottles, start a blog on on Instagram and just, you know,
00:04:52
Justin
but bugger around that way and and the blog started with yeah you know very much me just drinking whiskey reviewing a few bottles taking a taking in a few shots and and with no like end game in mind other than ah look it's kind of keeping me entertained and and and vaguely sane but for one reason, another, it kind of snowballed, um, a little bit kind of, uh, the, the, uh, um, the handle got like a little bit of, um traction. I think people kind of found it quite amusing.
00:05:31
Justin
The, the whiskey in isolation, uh, Monica, you know, about drinking whiskey on, on my own.
00:05:38
Jez
considering we all were in isolation at that point, especially in Victoria.
00:05:38
Justin
Yeah. Well, exactly. and In, in, in, in, in a quiet room. And, um,
00:05:46
Jez
It's it's a, the bolts on the doors and, uh,
00:05:48
Justin
that's right we're still getting over it so let's not listen listen let's not go there but but it but it but it was interesting so um i kind of started the blog and then with with no like end game in mind and people said oh with blogs it's always good to have a um a niche a direction so like when i was initially reviewing it was like all sorts of bottles of whiskey was reviewing I then thought, okay, look, I'm just going to focus on Australia because the the love of whiskey really started when I moved here.
00:06:26
Justin
And thought, you know, give back a little to the a country that
Challenges in Whiskey Innovation and Connectivity
00:06:32
Justin
welcomed me with open arms. And so by focusing on Australian distilleries, I then started having conversations with like,
00:06:41
Justin
you the distillers themselves and and brand ambassadors who would kind of send me stuff kind of going, oh, you know, we've got a release. It'd be great if you could kind of and review it. And I was able to create some connections and kind of understand what were some of the challenges that these guys were facing during and COVID.
00:07:03
Justin
And a lot of them were saying, well, you know, whiskey is an expensive industry anyway.
00:07:12
Jez
to buy and produce, I'm just like, ooh, shit.
00:07:12
Justin
know well, exactly, to buy and produce. So they were struggling with connections, again, to to the public because, you know, no longer could people kind of visit distilleries and, you know, in in person and and kind of drink drink in person.
00:07:28
Justin
So I started like, and you know, writing more and and and connecting sort of out with whiskey lovers. But they were also saying, oh, from an innovation perspective, it was it was hard to innovate, they were hamstrung by, as you said, like, bringing know, the cost of um producing sort of whiskey, you've got to stay on a ah very sort of specific path to make sure, you know, they were meeting there their, their aims.
00:07:55
Jez
Thank you.
00:07:59
Justin
And ah just had, like, a a few ideas for like, an for barrels. So when I was talking with them I was kind of going, Oh, have yeah you know have you ever thought about maturing in this barrel, or whatever?
00:08:11
Justin
And they'd kind of well, we don't really have they and the ability to kind of do that because it's outside you know the brand, is it's outside what and the direction that,
Approach to Bottling Whiskey
00:08:24
Justin
yeah.
00:08:24
Justin
Yeah.
00:08:24
Jez
Typical confines of like what you typically see for whiskey, right?
00:08:24
Justin
yeah
00:08:29
Jez
Because they're using either like bourbon or like we're Australia.
00:08:29
Justin
yeah
00:08:32
Jez
So it'd be like your ex-bourbon cast, your ex-para, the red wine, like Shiraz, so on and so forth.
00:08:41
Justin
yeah
00:08:42
Jez
So had kind of break out and be different there.
00:08:43
Justin
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And and and so like so I was happening to speak with John Jarvis, who was at Hobart Whiskey at the time. He's now moved on to White Label Distillery. And we were just talking through a few ideas.
00:09:03
Justin
And he goes, oh, you should she's just like do something with us and bottle it and and and put it put it out there.
00:09:16
Justin
and And I was kind of going, because a traditional independent bottler and kind of goes into a warehouse and and and they'll barrel pick.
00:09:27
Justin
but I mean, not not not exclusively, obviously, but like ah ah typical a typical, yeah, a typical
00:09:30
Jez
that's like typical like because they're picking a single barrel right
Collaborations and Projects with Distilleries
00:09:36
Justin
bottler would do that.
00:09:36
Justin
And look, and and I was very true to myself. like I kind of, don't i I thought, look, I'm a punter. I'm not an expert. I don't come from but but you know any sort of background or you know i know I don't own a bar. I don't own a retail shop. I don't have anything behind me to kind of go go and pick a barrel and bottle it and say, hey, this is great.
00:10:02
Justin
you know There are brands out there, so like Julian White from whisy Whiskey and Almonds, him and his company, Partner Brook, they've got the they've got the whiskey set, an amazing ah independent bottling company, but you know where they do their sort of um barrel picks. But if you kind of go, with Julian White from Whiskey and Elmant picked that barrel, you'd kind of go yeah, cool, Julian owns World Whiskey Bar of the Year.
00:10:27
Justin
He probably knows what he's talking about. just Justin, like an you know an expat living in in North Melbourne at the time, who the hell is this bozo?
00:10:39
Justin
So it was always about if I'm going to do this kind of little um independent sort of bottling idea, there had to be hook. So the hook that John Jarvis helped sort of instill in me was keep on the lines of where the blog was going, which was work exclusively with Australian distilleries and kind of champion Australia.
00:11:06
Justin
but the niche being it's not barrel picks. It's about doing things that the distillery has never done before. So everything that we do and is it distillery it a distillery first, but but it might it might sit at different kind of gestation sort of periods of of the whiskey journey. So not everything we do necessarily starts from scratch. So that it has vain so there have been projects where the whiskey has been matured but as i said i'm i'm not going to just take that put it in a bottle and kind of go there you go there have to has to be a spin on it so when we when we do that it's about creating some interesting marriages or some interesting like cask finishes that that haven't been as i said that haven't been done before and yeah and that's
00:11:56
Jez
That's a way to change it up, right? Because it you see your typical guys that are doing barrel picks and are actually finishing it in second cast, essentially, which is what you're doing.
00:12:09
Jez
that's And picking it like such high ABVs as well, it's...
00:12:09
Justin
Yeah.
00:12:16
Jez
Once again, very interesting because the Australian market normally punches it out at like a lower ABV scale so they can hit all those tax, I guess, tax breaks, if you will, um and then try and get that price down a little bit lower so they can get it out to more consumers because Australians are so price conscious when it comes to whiskey.
00:12:26
Justin
yeah
00:12:35
Justin
Yeah. Yeah. they are and And look, we're with with we're not a cheap whiskey, but on the other hand, we don't make any money either.
00:12:46
Justin
i tell I will tell you for nothing, i' i'm I'm not a business person. and And because this whole kind of project was not by design, it's been by evolution. it It was, you said like it was it was born out of COVID to kind of do something fun, interesting and different.
00:13:08
Justin
And I kind of started that point with, with no kind of structure that the whole thing, it was, it's very, it's been very much sort of, um, like evolutionary. So there was no, there was no like, um, big kind of business plan sort of put behind it. It was just like, let's, let's just kind of, um, but follow the passion of championing Australian whiskey and do some stuff that's like super super fun.
00:13:35
Justin
And, and, and by keeping, um, like the additions like, um, limited as well. It's, it's not about,
Passion vs Profit in Whiskey
00:13:44
Justin
um, how much we sell or, or, or how quickly we sell it is really about doing stuff that is fun.
00:13:52
Justin
That is different. That kind of, um, yeah, that, that I, that I enjoy, but hopefully other people enjoy, but it's never been a, uh, like a, a business decision.
00:14:06
Justin
not not None of the decisions are around making money.
00:14:10
Jez
like your business driven.
00:14:11
Justin
Yeah.
00:14:11
Jez
It's all like, once again, just passion project. It's what you're passionate about.
00:14:16
Justin
Yeah.
00:14:16
Jez
It's what you feel like is best, I guess, set to the consumer so they can enjoy the whiskey rather than being like a, I'd say multifaceted journey.
00:14:21
Justin
Yeah. yeah
00:14:27
Jez
Um,
00:14:28
Justin
and and And I guess like kind of how it has though and evolved is like, obviously when you're laying down like the first cast, They were like really small casks because I didn't know where it might lead, but it was more simplistic in how we put those projects together. Where we are now there confidence what we are doing and little bit more
00:14:57
Justin
what what we know what we are doing and a little bit more and I guess, intuitive sort of thinking and and it it's not experimentation for experiment ben experimentation sake.
00:15:14
Justin
you know We feel we've found like our tracks and i understand how casks behave in this climate. We understand like the spirits of the new mate spirit of the distilleries that we work with.
00:15:30
Justin
that there's There's a lot more thought that now goes behind the the project. so Although like we had a great response to the first couple of projects, I would say they were lucky wins because we didn't really know what we're doing. but now as we're into release 12, 13, I can't remember what what what we're up to now, but something like that. umm I'm more excited and and and happy with with the project because there has been, know, real deep sort of thinking behind them and yeah, a feeling that we can, and but you know, push Australian sort of whiskey into some, yeah, some fun and funky directions.
00:16:18
Jez
which is kind of where I was leading you to next. You left some samples.
00:16:26
Jez
Let me just reach down and grab me. I was very lucky you to send me up some samples. There's some new stuff you got working on new stuff you're releasing and I believe some previous releases here.
00:16:38
Jez
Yeah.
00:16:38
Justin
And one that sold out. Yeah, i sent you three sent you three releases. So for those that are watching on on on the screen, so the first one I sent you was Garden of Temptation with Amber Lane.
00:16:42
Jez
yeah
00:16:50
Jez
Yep.
00:16:52
Justin
I sent you that one just as ah as a New South Wales boy, and I know that you've visited Rod and the guys at Amber Lane before.
00:16:53
Jez
Yep.
00:16:58
Jez
Yes. A lot of love for Amberland. It's like good Australian.
00:17:02
Justin
Yeah.
00:17:04
Jez
ah Silk Road is like up there with one of my favourite Australian whiskeys all time.
00:17:09
Justin
It is great. Yeah.
00:17:11
Jez
It's just good use of casks. That's... Pure magic plus good distillate as well. So that is exciting. You have sent me up a good things as well.
00:17:22
Justin
Yeah. So, yes. So, so good things is with Launceston distillery. That one is not out until, will not be officially released till July, August time. So you've got a preview of that.
00:17:35
Justin
we We can go,
00:17:36
Jez
That's exciting.
00:17:37
Justin
Yeah, we can go through all of these, like, sort of properly, but just kind of as a quick summar summary.
00:17:39
Jez
Amazing.
00:17:40
Justin
and And then the other one you got is you don't know Jack, which is Hobart.
00:17:45
Jez
Yeah, so that was one of your, is that early?
00:17:45
Justin
um
00:17:48
Jez
I feel like I've,
00:17:49
Justin
Well, no, ah so I have Hobart, so hobarts obviously, as as we mentioned, John, and when he was there, so that was that was the first cast we laid down.
00:17:54
Jez
yeah.
00:17:58
Justin
This is actually our second project with them.
00:17:59
Jez
Mm-hmm.
00:18:02
Jez
Exciting, exciting. Okay. um Where do you wanna start then?
00:18:03
Justin
Yeah, and that one is available now. um
00:18:05
Jez
um I'm thinking Hobart, because we're all about the same ABV.
00:18:09
Justin
Yeah, yeah.
00:18:11
Jez
um As i I kind of reach for a glass here,
00:18:11
Justin
We are. Yeah.
00:18:15
Jez
um Take me through your your ABV. um how do you How do you pick it? What is the process of of picking that?
00:18:24
Justin
ah Well, look i've I've always been a bit of a cast junkie. I don't really get out of bed for anything under 50%. Yeah, under 50% now, to be honest.
00:18:33
Jez
I said the same thing.
00:18:34
Justin
Yeah. and under under fifty percent now to be honest
00:18:36
Jez
Whiskey and women, that's not getting out of bed for anything under 50.
00:18:37
Justin
yeah
00:18:39
Jez
Okay.
00:18:41
Justin
That's a very interesting comment. Talking about the ages of women? no
00:18:47
Jez
yeah Ah, well, yeah, you may as well. Old ducks need love too, I guess.
00:18:51
Justin
Oh, they do.
00:18:52
Jez
that's They do.
00:18:53
Justin
They do, mate.
00:18:54
Jez
They do.
00:18:54
Justin
They do. um
00:18:55
Jez
Good women.
00:18:56
Justin
Look, for me, anything under 50, like, ah it just tastes like whiskey cordial. But as I said, that that's just me, just because I've been so used to um drinking car strength. and and and and now that I i work for a distillery as well, um outside of
Preference for High ABV Whiskey
00:19:13
Justin
whiskey in isolation. So like I do a lot of and tasting straight from the cast. So that's just where my brain um kind of enjoys whiskey. But I guess the other reason being because I enjoy having fun, playing with water, playing with ice, even playing with playing with cocktails, whatever.
00:19:33
Justin
And if you're at high ABV, there's just more flexibility to kind of, you know, have some fun with it. you know You know, can bottle at 40 or 42 or whatever, but that you're kind of hamstrung then. You can't add the ABV and kind of go, oh wonder what this sort of tastes like at 54.
00:19:51
Jez
Yeah, it's it's done at that point.
00:19:51
Justin
So, yeah.
00:19:53
Jez
It's it's cooked and I guess you're just mixing it with Coke.
00:19:54
Justin
Yeah.
00:19:56
Jez
It's like for me, on I'm with you.
00:19:58
Justin
but
00:19:59
Jez
It's like it's got to be 50 up.
00:20:02
Justin
Yeah.
00:20:02
Jez
I'll say the same thing with bourbon.
00:20:02
Justin
Look,
00:20:04
Jez
The sweet spot is anywhere between 100 110, so
00:20:10
Justin
Yeah, look, if if if we were trying to sell thousands of bottles, if it was financially driven, cool, then you know, sure, look at lower ABVs, but with the the target market, or not even the target market, but the people who are buying our whiskey are seasoned drinkers, seasoned whiskey drinkers, then they know what they're getting into, and that and they, again, appreciate the higher ABV to kind of, you know,
00:20:38
Justin
again, you know, play with it. So like I'm, when I'm bottling, I'm not, I'm not kind of going, it tastes best ah fifty two at or 58.
00:20:50
Justin
Because I don't want to tell anyone where it tastes best at. I just think it drinks great at that um percentage.
00:21:02
Justin
But we will have tested it at other ABVs as well to know that it takes water and and does kind of drink well um all the way down.
00:21:13
Justin
And so when you're asking about determining the ABV, obviously, we have a very collaborative um process with distillery partners. So like I don't kind of go, then, cool, we need a bottle at 56 or 52 or whatever.
00:21:24
Justin
or fifty two or whatever
00:21:26
Jez
just walking, calling the shots.
00:21:26
Justin
wait week Yeah, exactly. We we we we we have like a proper sit down tasting sessions where we'll kind of go, okay, where you know where are we were we happy bottling?
00:21:39
Justin
but the But the aim is kind of to try and bottle as high as we feel is like nice to drink at And then said, test all the way down to to make sure that like those who kind of go, oh shit, you know, fifty eight really high i'm going stack in water you know and take it down to 48 well we want to make sure at 48 that it is going to taste know okay as yeah as well
00:22:05
Jez
As good. Yeah. Okay. So like you're essentially like your sweet spots about 52. Cause that's like, I'm looking at these and you, I got a 54 in front of me, 52 and a half 52. Like. Yep.
00:22:18
Jez
like
00:22:18
Justin
yeah the the the like the last we've done so far is 52 but we have done 60.9 with warps
00:22:25
Jez
ye
00:22:25
Justin
which but that's and that's to date that's been our only natural cast strength one so that's it came out of that and we just kind of decided um it it drunk well there and it was also it was a good little little bit of marking spin as well because it was warbs harbour's first natural cast strength whiskey as well so it was just like a another first that we could kind of um tick off but we weren't we weren't going to have that as a
00:22:34
Jez
Beautiful. Wow.
00:22:46
Jez
wow
00:22:53
Justin
as as as a tick if we didn't feel again as a as a partnership that it drank well at natural cast strength so We did take we did try it first
00:23:05
Jez
I love it. I love it. Okay. so um cracking this, ah you don't know Jack, how did you land on the name?
00:23:14
Justin
So you don't know jacks so um the Initial maturation is in virgin french oak casks So that's first number one for Hobart. They've never used a virgin cast before.
00:23:30
Justin
We actually got this cast from a cooperage in Bordeaux actually specialize in supplying barrels for the premium wine industry.
00:23:43
Justin
and And that's really what you know what their sort specialty is. But we were kind of interested a little bit in and the Virgin Oak side of things, just the connection with the American whiskey industry.
00:24:02
Justin
And the reason why we wanted that connection was because we had access to these pretty cool ah refill Jack Daniels single select casks. So we wanted to have that like French kind of connection to bourbon and then like the American connection to bourbon and and and put them together. So so this Virgin French oak cask was toasted and and and only a very, very light char. So like the know the treatment on it, similar to what the the bourbon industry will kind of do. So it was matured
00:24:35
Justin
yeah to ah just under three years in in that cask and then 20 months in the Jack Daniels single-select cask.
00:24:46
Justin
But the Jack Daniels was, said refill, bit of a light.
00:24:46
Jez
and
00:24:50
Justin
It's actually actually third fill. We wanted the Virgin Oak to be the star and then the Tennessee Whiskey Cuts just to kind of put a bit of ah bit of bit of an overlay on it because the challenges, as you'll know, being a big bourbon guy, it is it can be a challenge working with but Virgin Oak.
00:25:02
Jez
Finish it out.
00:25:14
Justin
There's a big kind of like,
00:25:17
Jez
Yep. Yep.
00:25:17
Justin
Was it cosine, sine? I don't know.
00:25:19
Jez
yep
00:25:20
Justin
A curve where you kind of go, oh, really sweet and lovely. Oh, really, really oaky and woody. Oh. So it was kind of, it was going up and down, up and down um so um all the time. We felt we had it at ah a really kind of good sort point in terms sort of mouthfeel.
00:25:38
Justin
But then the Jack Daniels was there just to kind of just oomph up a little bit of kind of sugary and caramel toffee sweetness to it.
00:25:47
Jez
That's great. Okay. i like the um I like the play on the name. So like as you're kind of explaining that, yeah, was like obviously the French play of Jax because it is J-A-C-Q-U-E-S.
00:25:51
Justin
Oh, yes. Oh, yeah
00:25:56
Justin
yeah.
00:26:00
Jez
And ah I love that.
00:26:00
Justin
Yes. Yeah.
00:26:01
Jez
It's a fun little play on words, if you will.
00:26:02
Justin
Yeah.
00:26:04
Justin
Yeah.
00:26:05
Jez
um And a little nod to the the French cast.
00:26:05
Justin
yeah
00:26:07
Jez
ah What is the process of you picking your cast?
00:26:08
Justin
Correct.
00:26:11
Jez
I assume you have a hand in that. Uh, when you're talking to the distilleries and going, oh, look, we want to do like this kind of finish or like
00:26:18
Justin
and and it has And it has been sort of that Again, there's been no set rule. It's been ah real sort of blend between um the distillery having access to certain casks and me using them, me going direct to and just a couple of connections that I've got, and then using barrel brokers as well to kind of source the casks.
00:26:49
Justin
so is it's it's It's a little bit of a um little bit of ah a mixture in terms of how um I get those casts. It's more challenging though than it's ever been to to get casts, to get good casts anyway.
00:27:04
Jez
I can, yeah, yeah, yeah, I can see how that'd be an issue, especially like if you look at how I'd say Australian customs is with like wood products coming in, and they are they a pest at all when it comes to like you bringing casts in calcium from say France and they're like, all right, well, we've got to hold this in.
Sourcing Barrels for Whiskey
00:27:29
Jez
our, quality, a quarantine area for an X amount of time, or are you getting it after that point?
00:27:36
Justin
So although like um i when I said like I've had those and direct connections, I've then used like barrel companies who kind of have got all the admin thing kind of that debt down pat to then actually connect.
00:27:52
Jez
Uh, yes. Yeah.
00:27:56
Justin
get get them in. But you know the yeah know there are times where like ah said yeah I'll say the barrel roker, this is what I'm looking for, and then they'll kind of do do the work. And then there's been times where I've done the work and then put them together, and they've then brought it in for me.
00:28:13
Justin
Because as you said, do you whatever you want to do, you want to cut it cut out red tape. and any e red type but um
00:28:20
Jez
Oh yeah. And ah as you know, like anyone in Australia that knows about the whiskey industry, it is full of red tape. They are, they like to, I guess, raise taxes 2% every six months.
00:28:36
Jez
Plus I guess kill everyone's hopes and dreams of starting a distillery because they're just like, well, you know, red tape, this red tape, that everything's alcohol and it will kill you.
00:28:44
Justin
do that well.
00:28:46
Jez
So yeah, we don't want anyone to do anything.
00:28:46
Justin
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. but and And it's kind of that, if we're talking bigger picture, that's had the impact on getting cast because finding that the barrel guys the that I work with they're not just going to get, you know, cause I, I'm, I'm a little guy and and I'm buying a cask here and there.
00:29:07
Jez
Mm-hmm.
00:29:10
Justin
Um, and so for me to get these casts, you know, they, they need to have like a, a big order. Um, and, and it'll all come in into one shipment and, and that's, and, ah but it's not even just sort of me. So it's, it's, it's the whiskey industry, um,
00:29:29
Justin
like like blanking a blanket in in that People the distilleries are buying less and costs so that's holding up the barrel brokers getting and the cast in because they're basically kind of going well, they've got to wait until A suitable number of distilleries have got their orders in before they're having this sort of shipments come over so like I'm waiting on a cast that I yeah spoke to my broker about um at the end of last year and will likely not get it until august and that's because it because it's because we're it's it's i won't tell you what exactly what the cast is but it's gonna but it's good but ah but it'll be coming from france and they basically said well we've got to wait until there are a certain number of other distilleries across australia that have put in orders that will have to come from france as well and it's just sly because
00:30:08
Jez
Wow.
00:30:13
Jez
No, no, of course, of course.
00:30:30
Justin
that less whiskeys kind of been made or they're slain down sort of and production, you know, production. So it's just kind of bit you know a bit of a knock on effect in terms of actually getting stuff in. And so you then go, you know, do I use something else as as an alternative? and And it is, I think, one of the reasons why in Australia we're using and more and more wine casks and because dig that the excess,
00:30:58
Jez
so readily available.
00:30:59
Justin
because they're so readily available and yeah and there are a lot of people still here that um really turn their nose up that at wine casks
00:31:10
Jez
Well, there's a reason why we get so upset about wine casks.
00:31:10
Justin
and
00:31:15
Jez
And there's... Fuck it. There's... Like, there is a brand that has put out wine casks consistently. And whether that works with the mass market or not.
00:31:29
Jez
And then people like... ah Is it that great?
00:31:31
Justin
Yeah.
00:31:32
Jez
Because as you said, like there's no, okay. That one particular brand, no one else is really doing it. Cause like say Rod for a great example, he's sourcing all his cars from like Bordeaux and like, uh, uh, Calvin Cooperage and a few spots, I'd say in the U S and he's not typically using Australian wine casks.
00:31:59
Justin
yeah
00:32:00
Jez
um because I guess access and
00:32:01
Justin
and and to Until you get to the whiskey that I've got given you.
00:32:06
Jez
interesting. Okay. Well, that's that's a fun segue then. Let me grab. This is why we keep the glasses close. Um, are you guys seeing a ah slowdown in production across the Australian whiskey market since I'm only well-versed in the American whiskey market and there is a huge oversupply at the moment, there's not enough, uh, bourbon being consumed because there's huge layoffs and everything else across the American whiskey market.
00:32:36
Jez
Um, cause sales is down across the board. Are you seeing that knock on effect in Australia?
00:32:41
Justin
and Not personally with my and the distillery part partners.
00:32:45
Jez
Well, yeah.
00:32:48
Justin
I ah think maybe um there there's definitely and probably a slowdown in putting whiskey to market.
00:32:59
Justin
You have to keep the production kind of going because you because if you suddenly, yeah,
00:33:02
Jez
Oh, you've got a plan for like, what, four five years ahead?
00:33:05
Justin
well well yeah exactly um
00:33:08
Jez
Okay, so for your brand then, would you see up, do you have access to older stocks where you typically wouldn't have had access to beforehand? Because obviously that stock had aged up and it's not actually being bottled yet.
00:33:24
Justin
ah that's an interesting question i none none of my projects have been born out like out of that kind of requirement i've a lot more of my projects and now that i've kind of hit my straps
00:33:34
Jez
Hmm.
From Barrel Picking to Distillery Collaboration
00:33:39
Justin
are starting from uh anyway in any way you do have the foot you do yeah but of course then the challenge of there being even more risk though in it because you don't actually know what the end product is going to be like as opposed to
00:33:41
Jez
Which is great because then you have the full creative control as opposed to like coming in half-cocked. Yeah.
00:34:01
Justin
As we said, going into Barrow Warehouse and going, cool, I really like this one. Yeah.
00:34:05
Jez
We're going from like a, but i I guess, distiller to, well, sorry, going to like a, from a barrel picker to a distiller, right? Because you're not, you're not walking into that warehouse and you're not picking their single cast.
00:34:18
Jez
You're going in and going, I want this a hundred percent, uh, malted barley mash bill and let's put it in a barrel and hope for the best in four years.
00:34:19
Justin
Yeah.
00:34:25
Justin
yeah
00:34:31
Justin
yeah pretty much
00:34:32
Jez
um But we'll we'll circle back to the Garden of Temptation. As everyone is aware, i am a big Amber Layman fan. So thank you very much for sending this one up to me.
00:34:43
Justin
well before i well before i go through that one i was quite interested um were you gonna let me know what what you thought of the hobart
00:34:43
Jez
Did you want to through it?
00:34:50
Jez
The Hobart was, i didn't know if you caught my facials. That was wild. So I'm a huge bourbon nut, as you you kind of covered.
00:35:00
Jez
And like having that, I'd say French oak, just kind of take over there. And my typical exposure to French oak is from Maker's Mark.
00:35:12
Jez
And they use it as like a a finishing.
00:35:13
Justin
yeah
00:35:15
Jez
But like having that virgin French oak and it's just like, i Once again, plenty of vanillas, caramels, you the typical bourbon notes you wouldn't expect for an Australian malted whiskey.
00:35:34
Jez
I don't even know the classification on it, but it's...
00:35:37
Justin
yeah
00:35:39
Jez
actually palatable for me because like once again we we my palate's sweet like hence all the bourbon around me Australian palates are typically sweeter that's why they all drink Canadian and dry that's why they drink gin, bean and coke they're booze hounds for days the fact that I can sit there with this and I'm like
00:35:46
Justin
Yeah.
00:35:51
Justin
Yeah.
00:35:55
Justin
Yeah.
00:36:01
Justin
yeah
00:36:07
Jez
Okay, it's completely game-changing. Do you know what? I'll do it a play-by-play because I didn't want to interrupt you and and be incredibly rude. All right, let's see what I got on this one.
00:36:19
Jez
Because is this still available for pickup?
00:36:22
Justin
Yes. yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:36:23
Jez
Okay, cool.
00:36:23
Justin
So it was ah it was it was only released a couple of weeks to ago.
00:36:23
Jez
All right, so...
00:36:27
Justin
So there' a couple ah there's a couple of bottles left online and then obviously I've got some for various whiskey festivals coming up this year.
00:36:28
Jez
Awesome.
00:36:35
Jez
So I've got like, let me give you like a full breakdown of it. So nose, I got this weird toasted marshmallow. I say weird, but like not something I'm typically expecting, something I'd typically get from a bourbon.
00:36:48
Jez
um It's like a toasted marshmallow. um and' say s'mores, but there's like, there's no chocolate. You got a little bit ah that biscuity note there.
00:37:01
Jez
it's like a toasted marshmallow sweetness after it just hits the fire and it becomes gooey that, and as I said, like it completely takes me away from that bourbon aspect.
00:37:07
Justin
Yeah.
00:37:13
Jez
I'm like, Oh, okay. I can get by on
00:37:21
Jez
this. That 52, it makes all the difference. Right.
00:37:25
Justin
Yeah.
00:37:25
Jez
And It's what I love about bourbon. You just go high ABV, it's fine.
00:37:30
Justin
Yeah.
00:37:30
Jez
It's different.
00:37:30
Justin
yeah
00:37:31
Jez
Scotch in Australia is all 40% and I'm not about it.
00:37:35
Justin
yeah
00:37:36
Jez
These are limited releases coming in higher ABV. It's good mouthfeel on it. That sweetness just coats.
00:37:47
Jez
So I'm not even like going, oh, okay, yeah, you get...
00:37:56
Jez
There's like no off-putting flavors there. It's all sweet.
00:38:00
Justin
Yeah.
00:38:00
Jez
It's all yeah sweet. That's... Which is good. So you have you have brands that that get these it casts and they're just hiding that shit spirit in it.
00:38:09
Justin
Yeah.
00:38:16
Justin
Yeah.
00:38:16
Jez
And they go...
00:38:16
Justin
yeah
00:38:18
Jez
Yeah. Okay. We'll just push out the product. The fact that you still get that that Hobart spirit there and it can still come through. It can still sing. And if you taste a distillate going up against the cast finishing, you're like, I see that.
00:38:34
Jez
I see that. Especially if you know what the cast does.
00:38:39
Justin
Yeah, exactly. um Well, let me give you and um another thing that that I've learned in the kind of three and a bit years that I've now been doing this was when I first put a release out, I would get very like downhearted and maybe offended if people went, yeah, I don't like it.
00:38:48
Jez
No.
00:39:01
Justin
But net again ah you know learning learning sort process and and i'm still learning every single day when i drink a whiskey where like i don't like everything that i drink so you know some things work for me and some don't and so i've learned to take um constructive criticism and people like kind of shit um shit talking the whiskey in
00:39:14
Jez
no
00:39:31
Jez
Thank you.
00:39:32
Justin
as long as it's done in a constructive way, I take it in in the right way because there's, you know, everyone's journey is different and everyone's um palette is different.
00:39:46
Justin
And so it's what I love most about um doing whiskey festivals and whiskey events is having that interaction with people because you know that you know, doing, say, a Whiskey Abbey when, like, 200 people are going to be drinking a whiskey, that not all 200 people are going to like it, and and that is okay.
00:40:08
Justin
So I guess the reason why I wanted kind of sort of preface that is that you've got two more whiskeys to drink, and I want to sort of think that people listening to the podcast or watching it, that there's – there's that there's a need for, know, you need to kind of go, oh, I've got Justin on.
00:40:28
Justin
So I'm just going to say sort of not nice things about the sort of whiskey. I think that's just like, I think that's just the, be it's just the beauty.
00:40:32
Jez
Oh God, no.
00:40:35
Justin
I think it's the beauty of whiskey that it's ah such a conversation starter and a conversation, you know, creator and like the amounts of like kind of,
00:40:50
Justin
cool like arguments I have with like sort of mates about sort of brands that they love and are kind of like shit talk just to kind of like stir them I think I think it's great and it's and it's part of what I what I love about sort of um the industry so again whether it's online in person when doing podcasts or whatever I just really enjoy and am interested in people being honest sorry
00:41:18
Jez
That's, and as you said, everyone's whiskey journey is different. I, fuck, I've been doing this long enough to go, do you know what? I either love it or I'm not sold on Like I've got, ah what is it?
00:41:28
Justin
Yeah.
00:41:32
Jez
don't under 10 bottles of Australian whiskey on my shelf.
00:41:35
Justin
like Yeah.
00:41:36
Jez
Like it's 550 bottles here and only like 10 are Australian. And it's like stuff I've ended up with. Or I've gone out and bought because I'm like, I really love what they're trying to do here or what their journey is or what, I guess, what the spirit's doing and so on and so forth.
00:41:49
Justin
yeah
00:41:55
Jez
So the fact I was able to sit there and it's not something I typically drink and I'm like, I actually really enjoy this. And plus, I equally have been doing this long enough. I just don't care.
00:42:10
Justin
Yeah.
00:42:10
Jez
It's just like, if something's not good, you just tell people you're like, do you know what It's not for me. it We're all doing our own thing here. It's.
00:42:18
Justin
and ah you know and And it's why like when you when you invited me to this, I was thinking, you know what, this is going to be sort of fun because and I know like Jez's sweet spot is bourbon, that's what he loves, that's what he kind of knows.
00:42:31
Justin
If I can kind of send him these sort of three whiskies and him not choke on it. I spit it out. but But I did actually think, but just because I said that, you know, the connection, the hope, the approach to this like whiskey with it being the Virgin Oak and the the Tennessee whiskey, I guess my brain was always going, could this be an Australian whiskey that got those that didn't like bourbon potentially towards a bourbon?
00:43:07
Justin
and or could it or could it conversely do the other thing could it get a bourbon drinker kind of going oh i don't mind
00:43:07
Jez
Yeah, absolutely.
Review and Analysis of Hobart Whiskey
00:43:13
Justin
australian whiskey or could it alienate everybody in and and everyone gonna go it's not neither one thing nor the other so we don't we don't like it but um
00:43:23
Jez
No, it's definitely pushed me more towards, I'd say, Australian whiskey, right? Because like... only got 10 bottles here. So I'm just like, okay, it's actually got those things I really enjoy about American whiskey and it just goes hand in hand with good quality distillate and approachable flavors, high ABV, and it's everything I enjoy about whiskey.
00:43:30
Justin
yeah
00:43:39
Justin
Yeah.
00:43:45
Jez
So I'm like, fuck yes, let's go.
00:43:49
Justin
Yeah.
00:43:49
Jez
But moving on to this.
00:43:51
Justin
Good.
00:43:51
Jez
Amber Lane, what is that?
00:43:53
Justin
Yes. Sorry.
00:43:54
Jez
No, don't don't apologize. It is your show, my friend.
00:43:58
Justin
ah
00:43:58
Jez
um Walk me through the name. I am very curious. It's it's landed at 54%. You've called a Garden of Temptation. I'm very tempted to neck this glass because it is very sweet.
Explaining the Garden of Temptation Whiskey
00:44:12
Justin
Well, there are a few reasons why it's called a Garden of Temptation. One is um because of the flavours that both me and Rod picked out and when we were kind of drinking it. So we were getting things like roasted Spanish onion, roasted red capsicum, like red apples, kind of, you know, basically like ah ah just a whole allotment of kind of
00:44:43
Justin
like part vegetable and part sweet fruit kind of sort of flavors. And it was like a whole kind of cornucopia of garden goodies. So that's kind of partly where the garden came in and then the red apple, I guess, as as well, you know, you know, the Adam and Eve kind of story as well, but the other kind of rather,
00:45:08
Justin
um cheesy kind of play at play on words is that so originally this is a double sherry cast so it was Australian appara and then into Oloroso so that was kind of the main like the main um kind of maturation but we then put it in to a Tempranillo cast just for nine weeks so the Tempranillo as you know like ah a Spanish
00:45:34
Jez
Oh, stop.
00:45:39
Jez
It'll bring out those vegetal notes for sure.
00:45:41
Justin
really It really does and makes it super like oily. But we got this cask from Vinden Wines, which is in which again is in um the Hunter Valley.
00:45:52
Jez
I have been, it is a good spot.
00:45:53
Justin
and Well, yeah, there you go. and Angus there specializes in um like like like like low impact um organic kind of style sort of um wine. So it's really kind of interesting kind of um grapes that he grows there including um tempranillo so tempranillo like accounts for i don't know i might be getting there the exact number wrong but like a very but a very small percentage of to
00:46:21
Jez
No, just throw it out and say it with confidence. You're fine.
00:46:25
Jez
Ah, he bailed.
00:46:28
Justin
two two or three two or three percent compared compared i don't know ah probably angus if you like that
00:46:29
Jez
There we go. Atta boy. Who's going to call you out? Exactly.
00:46:37
Jez
I'll send it to him. Don't worry.
00:46:38
Justin
Yeah, yeah, they said it directly too. So again, it was like kind of interesting. So like, um yeah, the the the wine cast that we're like used to in
00:46:49
Justin
in the Australian whiskeys kind of scene, you know, is, you know, the Shirazes and the Pinots and to, I guess, a lesser degree the cab staff. So like having Tempranillo is a very different like kind of red wine cast, but it also kind of keeps the Spanish flavor going as well, because Rod's big into the Spanish, like the you know the sherry. So like having the sherry, but then a Spanish red wine um um as as the finish was kind of cool. And that's obviously where the temptation,
00:47:21
Jez
ah ri Yeah, okay.
00:47:21
Justin
you know, temperament.
00:47:22
Jez
okay
00:47:22
Justin
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know.
00:47:23
Jez
i
00:47:24
Justin
I know, we were reaching, but yeah yeah, literally.
00:47:24
Jez
You led me down the garden path there. na No, no.
00:47:27
Justin
literally
00:47:28
Jez
Because once again, as you said, it's like that ah that vegetal note really comes through. So I was nosy and I'm like, why does this smell familiar?
00:47:40
Justin
Yeah.
00:47:40
Jez
And I could walk to the fridge and get it, but... the better half has Spanish onions in vinegar. She's pickling. And that is what I got.
00:47:51
Jez
I was like, why can I, why does this, it's like every time I open the fridge, I can smell it. And I'm like, I get it in this glass. What is wrong with my glass?
00:47:58
Justin
Yeah.
00:47:59
Jez
No, it is that pickled Spanish onion. No, that red apple or really pops.
00:48:03
Justin
Yeah.
00:48:05
Justin
Yeah, it read that but it was it was amazing like the impact that the Tempranillo cask had.
00:48:05
Jez
Um,
00:48:09
Justin
So as I said, it's only it was only in there for like nine weeks, but was like because it was a a fresh cask and it just went whomph and actually started like dominating the sherry flavours.
00:48:24
Justin
So we did actually then put it into a third fill bourbon cask for another year and the idea
00:48:29
Jez
One of those Kelvin Cooperage puppies he's got lying around.
00:48:32
Justin
yeah Yeah, exactly.
00:48:33
Jez
yes
00:48:33
Justin
and and and the And the reason for like third fill obviously is because it's not going to have an overt impact on it, but it's just going to allow it to stay on wood and let those kind of, let the Tempranillo kind of cast influence just kind of mellow a little bit and and marry.
00:48:52
Justin
and marry It does, though, you you may or may not get it, does impart like a little bit of and vanilla sweetness on on the back. So there is, you do get like a slight bit of um the bourbon cast to it, is it is a bit of a mind meld of a whiskey.
00:49:10
Jez
oh
00:49:11
Justin
I love it, but you do need to spend a little bit of time with it for sure.
00:49:15
Jez
But it's much like the rest of Rod's releases where he's using that cognac method of aging where he's putting it in like different casts and then he's like throwing it in a...
00:49:23
Justin
yeah
00:49:29
Jez
But. newly charred barrel just to kind of like tame the whiskey a little bit. And then he's like, all right, we're going to move it into this one and move it. And he just spends more time moving whiskey than what he does bottling. But the products that are released to just, uh, worthy of my Australian whiskey spot.
00:49:47
Jez
That's no, you guys have, guys have done well.
00:49:47
Justin
yeah yeah yeah he produced the good stuff but
00:49:53
Jez
Like that sherry, that, Classic, what's the cask he uses? It's Bodo Castillo something.
00:50:04
Justin
ah Fernando de Castilla yes, that's that so that's the other also cast refused Yeah
00:50:05
Jez
Fernando, Fernando Castillo. I could have guess like it's such a classic note across his releases. And then like once again, good distillate.
00:50:16
Jez
So it's like that Werther's original note will just like trickle in a little bit there.
00:50:21
Justin
Yeah So this one is sold out though. I do have I'm going to do a little archive, probably museum shop in a couple of years.
00:50:34
Justin
I've kept one or two of everything back, but there is going to be a sequel to this whiskey.
00:50:41
Jez
ah It's like a cherry ripe on the back end.
00:50:47
Justin
Quite a few people have said that, yeah.
00:50:49
Jez
Yeah. So it's like this layered kind of dark chocolate and then that cherry note. not really cherry, but like, it's like a, no, I'd say it it's closer to a cherry.
00:51:00
Jez
It's just like instant cherry ripe childhood flashbacks.
00:51:03
Justin
Yeah. yeah
00:51:04
Jez
ah yeah um I'm no longer a fat kid. So less cherry ripes, more ah morning runs, but out yes, liquid, um maybe old gold kind of cherry ripe vibes.
00:51:18
Jez
little bit darker chocolate.
00:51:18
Justin
Yeah. Yeah.
00:51:20
Jez
I like that you're on the waters though, unless it's like just your own releases from like a Yeti.
00:51:25
Justin
but the The black release. Yeah.
00:51:27
Jez
Yeah, that's...
00:51:31
Jez
No, this is it's great. it Great use of casks. How long did it spend in each cask? I know you hit the nine month mark on the Tempranero.
00:51:40
Justin
No, nine week.
00:51:42
Jez
Sorry, nine weeks. Sorry.
00:51:44
Justin
Yeah, that's that but yeah but that's how quick it was.
00:51:44
Jez
Nine weeks on the Tempranero.
00:51:48
Justin
um So it was just under four years across the Sherry, then nine weeks in the Tempranillo, and then and just under 12 months in the
00:52:02
Justin
Bourbon. So I think it was like four and three quarters in total, like touching five.
00:52:10
Jez
Yeah. it's
00:52:10
Justin
close enough.
00:52:11
Jez
Did you have a ah method to which you kind of pick, um I guess, a perfect aging cycle or
00:52:21
Justin
No, like, like we look with with that again, it like it's, it's, it's close, um, um, collaboration with
Testing and Aging Whiskey for Flavors
00:52:29
Justin
like, um, well, right.
00:52:29
Jez
Yeah.
00:52:31
Justin
Yeah. Right. In this case, but like, know, we, we, we constantly, um,
00:52:32
Jez
yeah
00:52:36
Justin
yeah we we we constantly and taste test to kind of, you know, anticipating when we think it might be ready and then kind of try it and then go, oh, is it, is it not?
00:52:50
Justin
Look, we, look, it's a, it's a, it's an old and cliche, but we, we, we only bother when, but both myself and the distillery partner is happy.
00:53:02
Justin
And there's like, there's no like kind of rush to market. Like, you know, we, we, if if we think it's ready at three years or two years, whatever, then we'll put it out at two, three years if we think it's ready ah six years.
00:53:18
Justin
Like age ages age is just um part of the maturation process and and part of the, you know, decision making.
00:53:31
Justin
So it's it's it's irrelevant to us.
00:53:34
Jez
ah especially now you're um you're moving into that uh new make era right because going on ah going back a few years say if you were like buying just aged stock you'd be paying obviously a lot more for what you'd be paying new make so it's yeah you've already got it in barrels right so let it do its thing and
00:53:49
Justin
yes correct correct yeah yeah yeah though though that though with this so with this one though like this the sherry um it was pretty much um just about ready to go from a sherry perspective but me and rod we were at um whiskey abbey and we were actually having a chat about Australian red wine and kind of, you know, where it sat in the, in the greater scheme of things and Robert's guy, I really want to, I really want to do, want to use an Australian red wine cost just to see if we can do something different or better. I said, well, I i mean, that's like kind of what I'm here for. That's like the whole point of the whiskey and isolation brand. i'll
00:54:43
Justin
I'll, I'll pay you the money and and and and take the risk and, and you can, you we can kind of, um, experiments together. So yeah, um I'm very happy.
00:54:52
Jez
And it clearly worked out. Has there any been, oh sorry has there been any gambles that haven't really paid off to what you're expecting it? Or is it just more time in cask and weird cask finishes to kind of balance?
00:55:08
Justin
Look ah at the, at the moment we've been, but i i think we've been super lucky i mean because i've been happy with everything we put out and and i wouldn't put it out if i wasn't happy and and and the guys weren't happy i'm kind of um hesitant to um as you say like try and fix fix by know by marrying marrying do more finish do you know it's you can't
00:55:41
Justin
if if you kind of overdo it, then like the punters are clever enough to kind of go ah
00:55:49
Justin
dave they' they've tried they've tried to repair a whiskey by but by sort of um doing like by doing something. Yeah.
00:55:49
Jez
You've cooked this like, yeah.
00:55:58
Jez
You just released it at 40% and everyone would be like, oh, I know what went like well went wrong with this.
00:56:02
Justin
yeah
00:56:04
Jez
Cut word.
00:56:05
Justin
Yeah.
00:56:06
Jez
Hmm.
00:56:06
Justin
Yeah. So at the moment, I'm being been lucky. um like If we if we get to that we get to a stage where kind of we go, oh, damn, this project isn't going where we want it, look, I guess we will kind of cross cross that bridge.
00:56:24
Justin
and but like But that said, i mean what you know one thing that we we do sort clearly do, you know we have a calendar where where we think this is when the releases will be ready.
00:56:41
Justin
and we've kind of managed to follow that calendar for the first couple of years but um this year and next year it's been i don't know right thrown out all over the place but like kind of um the the the order or the planned order is is nowhere um where it was um going to be because we've basically kind of gone now that one's not ready we're gonna you know leave it for another summer and and and that's I said just just what we will do, we won't put it out unless nice we're happy with it. So that that's my preferred way of of managing a whiskey if you kind of think it's not tasting great, is to kind of keep all fingers crossed that and another year um or two years or whatever that it'll kind of
00:57:32
Justin
um come back around again and fine we do fine with sort of whiskey as know as i said like we know with the uh with the virgin oak where it can be kind of cyclical and kind of oh it's not not tasting great or sunny tasting sort of um great rather than right yeah throwing into another another cast that's kind of will probably be would be a last resort kind of thing
00:57:55
Jez
Well, how often do you find yourself laying down casks and as you kind of expand? Because you're getting up there with releases. It's it's happening faster and faster the more like ah the more money you throw at it because, as you said, the brand's expanding.
00:58:12
Justin
um
00:58:13
Jez
It's not making any money, but it's like...
00:58:13
Justin
Look, no ah that but the is to be doing four releases a year.
00:58:15
Jez
Mm-hmm.
00:58:21
Justin
It will only will only be three, though, this year, just again because of timings.
00:58:26
Jez
Time.
00:58:28
Justin
but look But the difference, the biggest difference, I guess, kind of now is we're using bigger casks. So by using bigger casks, I'm actually laying down less but will use but we'll use that one, a bigger cask and creates multiple releases.
00:58:48
Jez
ah
00:58:49
Justin
Because by doing that, we can kind of create like a ah little bit of a a little bit of a ah story or if or they that there's bigger cask or reuse or reuse of existing casks.
00:58:49
Jez
Ah.
00:59:00
Jez
Yep. yep
00:59:01
Justin
So for example, like with we know with King Lake, we did and a bourbon cask into and the mulberry wood cask. We did the sequel then, which was refill bourbon into refill Marbury wood. And we now have the completion of the trilogy kind of um working away in the background, but it's all, but that's been using the same casks.
00:59:25
Justin
But like with garden of temptation, as I said, there's a sequel coming. So we didn't bottle all all of this.
00:59:32
Justin
There's something now happening to that sort of whiskey.
00:59:36
Jez
Okay, I got you. I got you. All right, let me get to good things poured out because I've got to let you get to bed and then back to the rest of your family so you miss this doesn't yell at me.
00:59:37
Justin
Yeah. Yeah.
00:59:46
Jez
ah Run me through good things.
00:59:46
Justin
and and yeah Yeah. um so good So good things is with Launceston Distillery.
00:59:53
Jez
Mm-hmm.
00:59:55
Justin
distillery. I said you've got the preview. This is one of the projects ah started from scratch a few years ago, thanks to Dave DeBautista, who was at Launceston, so brand ambassador there, was kind of keen to kind of work with us.
01:00:11
Jez
Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
01:00:14
Justin
now at Helios. So big shout out to Dave for getting this done. But this is where we've done something sort of different where it's not just about the cask type.
01:00:27
Justin
So this is actually Launceston's first ever triple distilled whiskey. So there were a couple of um people in Australia doing triple distilled. So Johnny Halton at Transportation, Damian um at um Hunter Island.
01:00:44
Justin
This is the first time that Launceston had done it. And so again, that's something else we wanted to do. So we wanted to not just be about cast type, but be about grain type, be about distillation sort of methods that we could sort of promote as distillery
Launceston Distillery's Triple Distilled Whiskey
01:01:04
Justin
first. So this is also brand new mash bill for Launceston.
01:01:11
Justin
50% malted barley and then the other 50% secret recipe of of corn, wheat and unmalted barley. Yeah.
01:01:22
Jez
Okay.
01:01:23
Justin
Yeah.
01:01:24
Jez
Because I was like, there's something going on with this mash pill. It's not like it's getting classic mash pills for Australian whiskey. It just hits one market.
01:01:36
Jez
That's it. And then I'm like, this is slightly off.
01:01:37
Justin
yeah
01:01:38
Jez
I'm like, why is it a little bit smoky? There's something like a bit skew-iff.
01:01:44
Justin
Yeah, so so it's a pretty interesting mash build for them, but then the cask is pretty cool as well. So it's actually a 61.4 liter cask. And the reason why that is a kind of a bit of a crazy size as well is because this has been custom, it's made from bourbon staves, but it's made from a whole heap of bourbon staves from different distilleries.
01:02:00
Jez
Recoup it.
01:02:08
Justin
I don't even know all the all the distilleries, so it's just been built.
01:02:10
Jez
Like all of them, everyone on the bourbon trail has been broken down and sent over.
01:02:11
Justin
Not about. Yeah, a and and and and center stays.
01:02:15
Jez
i like it.
01:02:17
Justin
So yeah, so a whole collection of stays built into this cask and then seasoned with Fernando de Castilla Oloroso.
01:02:18
Jez
Yeah. Wild.
01:02:28
Jez
Okay.
01:02:29
Justin
So it's a sherry-seasoned Frankenstein bourbon cask.
01:02:35
Jez
What is... Okay, because...
01:02:37
Justin
and then And then it's tripled and then tripled and stilled.
01:02:38
Jez
oh Because I was nosy and I'm like, I swear it's got this like smoky malt kind of going on, but I was completely off. It is clearly just like sherry poisoned bourbon Frankenstein mixture of something.
01:02:52
Justin
Yeah.
01:02:56
Jez
But that's the best thing about tasting spirits is you're not going to taste the same spirit every time.
01:03:04
Justin
yeah
01:03:04
Jez
Cause like trying different bottles, every distiller wants to do something slightly different. So like the fact that they've gone and manufactured this Frankenstein mash bill, I'm
01:03:20
Justin
So I'm definitely interested in in your notes for this because I've got nothing written down on the website or anything.
01:03:26
Jez
okay. Awesome.
01:03:26
Justin
yeah as as As I said, because look, not out until we have for another three ah three or four months. like i've got like a couple of I've got a couple little tasting events where um in in the lead up where it's again being sort of previewed, but it won't be available for a few more months.
01:03:33
Jez
ah
01:03:41
Justin
So yeah, I'm taking on board anything that anyone says and then scribbling scribbling it down.
01:03:47
Jez
No, I will... no I've got a fair amount left, so I will also write you up something just to throw on the website for it.
01:03:56
Justin
Yeah, that'd be cool.
01:03:56
Jez
um But this is wild. I don't think I've had... anything like this before. get this strange stainless steel note. It's not, but it's, I got it when I was doing a ah stag barrel pick um for Whiskey Hunt and they pulled this Warehouse H and it was like this stainless steel note. And I was like, why, why is that? But that's purely like nose based.
01:04:29
Justin
Yeah.
01:04:29
Jez
Obviously that, that sweetness is there.
01:04:34
Jez
Yeah, you're definitely getting that Fernando Castillo sherry. Let me hook into the palette here.
01:04:48
Jez
What's the age on it?
01:04:50
Justin
Just about four years.
01:04:51
Jez
Okay.
01:04:53
Justin
Yeah.
01:04:55
Jez
Yeah, that sherry really overpowers. to have to sit with this. This is...
01:05:03
Jez
How did you land on this? That is, you just stumble into it one day because they were like, oh well, whip up something crazy for you or...
01:05:13
Justin
Well, ah look, a little bit. Look, when I was talking to Dave and we were kind of talking about sort of ideas, like I was kind of saying, look, it's fine doing stuff with like Funky Cast. And I said, I've got some ideas for like,
01:05:33
Justin
um casks and know, you know, you like the, uh, um, the Oloroso Frankenstein bourbon kind of thing anyway, but we were talking, oh um, you know, could, could we do something sort of PD? I mean, launch this and do stuff sort of PD, but we were just kind of talking about sort of about Nashville's and, and, and distillation sort of techniques or whatever. And, and he just like kind of threw out there,
01:06:02
Justin
um like triple distilled during the conversation. and And I was going, oh man, that would like kind of be really cool because like a matt massive red breast fan.
01:06:13
Jez
Yeah, but no one's doing triple distilled in Australia, as you said, like it's very few brands.
01:06:13
Justin
And he goes, well, other than Hunter Island and transportation, believe they're the only other two doing it.
01:06:20
Jez
Yeah.
01:06:24
Justin
But again, I can be be corrected on that. But he said, oh, look, I got like very excited about that. He said, oh, I've got to talk to Chris, like head still at Launceston. no, Chris was all for it because you know he's he's a bit of a scientist that himself and he'd kind of never done it before and kind of saw that is as a way to upskill himself and and and do something
01:07:00
Justin
like a little bit different. So he did call on on the guys saying who know Tripple to Stilt to actually, and you know, advise him and stuff. So like, look, and is it going to be, well will it be their sort of finish of Nashville going forward? I mean, I know obviously like the mesh they did,
01:07:24
Justin
yeah they're not going to do a mesh just for like 61. So later, so like obviously he created like ah um enough for them to do um their own their own stuff as well. But you know it was there their first and attempt at tripled a ceiling. So there was no, again, there was no there was no blueprint for them. He had kind of sort of ideas and just called on his mates within the industry kind of going, hey, look, I'm doing this.
01:07:53
Jez
What do you think?
01:07:53
Justin
Can you, yeah ah i've got I've got my L plates on.
01:07:54
Jez
Yeah.
01:07:56
Justin
can you Can you give give give me some, yeah Yeah, give me some advice.
01:07:58
Jez
Walk me through triple distilling.
01:08:01
Justin
so So from that perspective, I didn't have like kind of a direct input into the mesh bill. It was it was really kind of, we want to go down this direction. You're happy to triple distilled.
01:08:19
Justin
that You know, you you go out there and kind of, Talk to your guys talk to your suppliers in terms of what kind of grain you can get so you can actually yeah, I'm creating a crate and The Nashville and stuff so yeah from that perspective I kind of like left it in his hands I kind of had the overall concept and vision created every David and then said there you Chris that's that's the concept now now now go forward and create
01:08:28
Jez
Hmm.
01:08:52
Jez
Oh, love it. it's It's good to watch distillers push the boundaries of stuff because, once again, you can just operate within that box of 100% malted barley or 100% unmalted barley and push your products out all day.
01:08:58
Justin
yeah yeah
01:09:09
Jez
But the fact that you're just going to go, well, triple distilled, what kind of still are they using? Is it like cup pot or is it?
01:09:16
Justin
yeah yeah so slow three pot still distillation
01:09:17
Jez
Yeah, yeah.
01:09:20
Jez
Yeah, a couple of bolts still. It's... Yeah, it's nothing like I've ever had before. It's not like I was walking and expecting to go, oh, yeah, yeah, I can nail this. I'm just like...
01:09:38
Justin
Look, I don't know like if it was because and I got the bottles delivered just before Easter and that I was like kind of smashing about 24 hot cross buns every every week, but like but ah but I do get like kind of big and spice hot cross bun vibes on the palate.
01:10:05
Jez
ah yeah I see that like the the sherry is definitely taking over here I was thinking more of like the maple charcoal from like the Jack Daniels aspect so it's like shaved
01:10:19
Justin
Right, yeah.
01:10:24
Jez
maple charcoal because it's, I guess, like maple wood. It's that sweetness, obviously, because my palate cooked. um But it's like leaning into that side. It's like touch smoky. It's that.
01:10:40
Jez
I'm trying to work out the better way to explain this. I'm going to have to write some stuff down for you because...
01:10:46
Justin
Play, stay.
01:10:47
Jez
Yeah, I'm going to have to sit with this. Send it to a pallet, ah a crew, see if I can assess their pallets. and What do you guys think?
01:10:56
Justin
and and And this is a good one. It's good one to play with water as well. it does that. Does that definitely take water?
01:11:03
Jez
So you were happy with it at 52?
01:11:06
Justin
Yes. Yeah.
01:11:08
Jez
have you What was the lowest you took this one down to to kind of go, ah pull ah a few more notes out of it?
01:11:08
Justin
Yeah. ah and ah like got I got down like as far as like kind of and like the mid high forties.
01:11:24
Justin
So like, as far down as like 45, 46. I was enjoying it at. um Actually, this was one at 54, 55. I felt just needed to shave was quite spicy.
01:11:39
Justin
But love a little bit warmth for it. it was it was quite um spicy but i but i love a like little i love a little bit of warmth
01:11:48
Jez
I'd be aggressive. Yeah. but it's a that sugar in there that would make it overly aggressive at like high ABVs.
01:11:57
Justin
Yeah. Yeah.
01:12:01
Jez
no I'm going have to work with this one for a a hot minute.
01:12:02
Justin
Yeah. so
01:12:04
Jez
and I'm like... It's once again, so left field for what I've been enjoying for the rest of the night.
01:12:10
Justin
yeah yeah
01:12:11
Jez
Like you throw in like two classic bourbons, like bourbon-esque casks. And I'm like, yes, let's go. And it's like, here's a weird corn mash bill I landed on.
01:12:23
Jez
What do you think? I'm like, what? I can't even fathom this in my brain.
01:12:29
Justin
Yeah. Okay. and And that's kind of, that's kind of the, like the the point of the brand, everything is like, um, is a, is a little bit different and like hopefully fun.
01:12:40
Jez
Yeah, and it's great not being cookie
Future Projects and Whiskey Innovation
01:12:43
Jez
cutter for like where your journey has taken you.
01:12:43
Justin
Yeah.
01:12:47
Justin
Exactly.
01:12:47
Jez
So I'm very excited for your future. So I can get you to bed though. Give yourself a plug, let people know where to find you and I will get all the details about this release and put them in the show notes as well.
01:13:01
Justin
Cool. So it's really easy. The website, whiskeyinisolation.com.au and Facebook is literally whiskey in isolation, all as one word. And the Instagram is at whiskeyinisolation.
01:13:15
Justin
And look, people feel the need to write and and and and abuse me, which is more than fine. It's just just an Justin at whiskey in isolation.com.au. Honestly, actually, people write to me all the time and 90% of the time, it's nice things that they write to me about. So I'm more than happy getting emails. So yeah, I said just Justin at whiskey in isolation.com.au.
01:13:38
Jez
That's awesome.
01:13:40
Justin
and and And the only one available at the moment, obviously, is the Hobart.
01:13:45
Jez
Oh.
01:13:46
Justin
good things will come soon. ah The Amber Lane, well, look, when when i unleash the museum shop at some point, there'll be a bottle or two.
01:13:56
Justin
And that actually, I might actually have one under the table bottle for whiskey on the Murray, which is an event coming up.
01:14:02
Jez
o
01:14:04
Justin
don't know when you're going to put this out, but at the end of June, I'm saying June 20th, around then at Korowa Distillery. Anyway, Google whiskey on them on the Murray if it's before June the 20th and you'll find the details on that.
01:14:19
Justin
There'll probably be a bottle of the Ambilane floating about then.
01:14:23
Jez
ah It will. Yeah. The episode will definitely come out soon. I will put all the details in the, the show notes. Cause obviously want to give as much love as I can to you. Cause Hey, I love what you're doing. I love that.
01:14:35
Jez
This little passion project for you. Cause I remember when but we started talking, it was while we were in isolation, we're all stuck at home drinking and we all started buying whiskey and drink it.
01:14:43
Justin
Yeah.
01:14:47
Jez
Ridiculously. Um, Yeah, the fact that you're able to turn this passion project into a essentially a full-time business where you're watching casks mature is completely incredible.
01:14:56
Justin
yeah
01:15:01
Justin
And I was going to say, just a a quick quick teaser, because there are some cool things coming out as well.
01:15:01
Jez
um Is it?
01:15:04
Jez
Yeah, you're right.
01:15:06
Justin
So so like, watch out for end of this year, they'll be all going well, he says. Fingers crossed, a Highwayman whiskey.
01:15:14
Jez
Ooh.
01:15:15
Justin
And then next year, ah we've we've got, well, there'll be something from Backwoods using a very interesting grain type with something from Spring Bay.
01:15:24
Jez
Mm-mm.
01:15:26
Justin
yeah, some pretty cool things in the works.
01:15:27
Jez
That is some very cool distilleries that you're working with, Justin. I'm pumped to see what, because obviously, like I love what Backwoods is doing as well.
01:15:38
Jez
I was messaging Brie earlier today talking about whiskey. It's funny, actually, Dave messaged me as well while we're actually on this. It's like all all the people you're met are talking about are messaging me while we're talking.
01:15:51
Justin
Yeah. Yeah.
01:15:52
Jez
Yeah. Oh, I love it.
01:15:55
Justin
It's a small industry, isn't it?
01:15:55
Jez
I love it. Oh, it is.
01:15:56
Justin
Yeah.
01:15:57
Jez
And it's, it's so tight knit. It's ridiculous how much everyone knows each other.
01:15:59
Justin
Yeah. That's good.
01:16:03
Jez
And cause they're all going to each other for help when they get stuck with triple pot still stuff.
01:16:08
Justin
Yeah. It's what I love most about it. There's it's there's no no competition. Everyone's just like working together to basically big up Australian whiskey. So.
01:16:18
Jez
Which is beautiful. You really can't ask for much more than that. Um, But yeah, well, I will end it there. I'll let you go to bed because it's late. No wants to be up listening to us talk shit for another few more hours.
01:16:32
Justin
Another two hours.
01:16:35
Jez
But Justin, thank you very much for coming on.
01:16:35
Justin
Good on you, mate.
01:16:37
Jez
I will drop.
01:16:37
Justin
Thanks for having me, brother.
01:16:38
Jez
No, you're you're most welcome. Thank you. ah Hopefully everyone has enjoyed this and please check out Justin at Whiskey Isolation.com. on all his socials, I will put all his details and I'll also put up on my ah socials when this bottle drops of good things because I can only expect good things to come from me finishing this one up.
01:17:02
Jez
i
01:17:05
Justin
What a beautiful end, mate.
01:17:05
Jez
I love it. I love it. All right. Well, ah thank you guys for tuning in Much love. Stay thirsty. Cheers.