Transcript
Jez: Good. Welcome back to another episode of Non-Chill Filtered. i am very blessed this evening to be essentially hosting ah two classic Australian, say one distillery, um but two parts of.
Jez: I'm blessed with David and Fiona from Hellia's Road. Welcome, guys. Thank you for jumping in.
Fiona: Thanks for having us.
David Debattista : Thanks for having us.
Jez: You guys are welcome. I know you guys have a busy busy last few days, but we'd be in the future. So busy two weeks ago, you guys have just launched the 22-year because it's all that's been in my feed on socials in the last, I don't know, 24 hours.
David Debattista : That's good.
Jez: Mainly it's been...
David Debattista : Marketing team's doing their job. Good stuff.
Fiona: but
Jez: Yeah, we can pay them this fortnight. That'd be nice.
Fiona: like
Jez: ah But I want to essentially kick it off. If you guys want to your intros and then we can roll into your comic book 01 origin story, how essentially, yes, say David, and then we'll roll into Fiona got into whiskey and how you ended up here.
Jez: David,
Fiona: Sure, sounds good.
David Debattista : Cool, cool.
Jez: if you want to kick us off.
David Debattista : Yeah. Yeah. My name's David DeBatista. Um, I do a sort sales and a, an amalgamation of everything else that falls into the gaps at hell he is in terms of moving stock and getting liquid on lips for people.
Fiona: But how'd you get into it, Dave?
Jez: yeah
David Debattista : Oh, do you want me to do my origin story now too?
Jez: Yeah, you can.
David Debattista : Oh, okay.
Fiona: Yeah.
Jez: Yeah, you as well roll into it.
David Debattista : Sure. Sure.
Jez: Yeah, yeah.
David Debattista : Yeah. Um, Yeah, well, I suppose, you know, many, many years ago, I am ah went to uni, you know, and usually when you're at uni, you work in a bar on the weekends, because it's, you know, a way of getting paid to drink and, and you know, go out.
Fiona: Thank you.
David Debattista : um So yeah, I studied advertising at RMIT in Melbourne after for years and learned how to sell products to people, pretty much. And then ah on yeah weekends, worked in bars and And then ah after I studied our advertising, got into the advertising industry and worked at advertising agencies and stuff, coming up with campaigns and ways to sell products. And that was good for a couple of years, pretty crazy, until a global financial crisis happened, 2008. And everyone I went to uni with all got fired in about two weeks because it's the first thing you cut back on, advertising and marketing.
David Debattista : ah so as such I started doing a lot more work in bars than I was advertising and then ah eventually yeah justs just working in bars full time and then the next thing I started managing bars and then working in bars and then opening bars and and ne did that for for many years and sort of found a bit of a niche working in some late night hospitality in Melbourne running large format venues with lots of people inside with loud music and lots of acts and things going on and
Fiona: Thank you.
David Debattista : sort of found, I suppose, a bit of a way of working where I could sort of package things up and sell them to people and convince them that's what they wanted for a lot and lot of money.
David Debattista : um So, yeah, ran large format nightclubs, places like Alhambra,
Fiona: Thank you.
David Debattista : XC54, Miss Collins, places for Crown Casino and stuff as well. And sort of really pushed booth service and all that bottle service type of stuff. And while I was doing that in bars, I really got into whiskey, really liked whiskey. So, um, sort of meeting people in whiskey and selling a lot more whiskey than probably what I ever needed to be.
David Debattista : And then, um, One day when I was running one of the nightclubs, I was like, we should just build a whiskey bar in the front of this nightclub here. That'd be funny. And um so i did that and ended up partnering up with the guys from Glenfiddich to do that. And we launched a whiskey bar and did that and went over to Scotland many times and had lots of fun with various people and ah Yeah, really deep dived into a whiskey and as a result, having a whiskey venue in one of my venues.
David Debattista : And um yeah, they ended up going down to Tasmania, even though I've been to Scotland and America and Japan, if i'd never been 45 minutes the other way. And I went down to Tassie for the first time ah because my missus, she was from Tassie. So she took me to Tassie for the first time. And the first distillery she took me to was Hellia's Road.
David Debattista : And um yeah, we we went all the way around the state visiting distilleries and seeing the sites and stuff. And then we had our first kid. And then we're like, maybe we should move down to Tassie and, you know, get involved down there.
David Debattista : That could be quite good. It's more conducive when you've got a kid.
Jez: thought you were going to name Helly
David Debattista : but your Yeah, they could have called him Henry, I guess.
Fiona: Thank you.
David Debattista : It's not too far from that. His name was Harry. ah
Jez: There we go.
David Debattista : But um yeah, yeah, we'll take that link.
Jez: We're close.
David Debattista : um And then, um yeah, we moved down to Tassie and COVID hit. And it was great to be in Tassie. Didn't really have a lockdown. You could go to the pub. People were locked up at home and up on the mainland and, yeah, got into whiskey and, yeah, i worked for a couple of years before I met the ah the guys at Hellier's and they showed me what was coming up with the rebrand and the relaunch and the liquid that Fiona was now putting together, which was worlds above what was up there previously. And I was intrigued and I liked it like a challenge.
David Debattista : So I thought, yeah, let's do it and sort of ended up working for Hellier's. And that sort of brings us to now, a couple of years later.
Jez: which is a ah great, I'd say, moment to introduce Fiona into the mix here. yeah
Fiona: and
Jez: Fiona, what what role do you play at Helia's and just how did you end up where you are now?
Fiona: Well, um I am now the head still. at Helios Road. I did start out ah just on the floor as a distiller in 2021.
Fiona: So I'm a ah fairly recent addition to the industry ah generally. um And prior to that, ah um actually, my my trade is as a biomedical scientist. so So it's a bit of a bit of a jump to go from maybe...
Jez: No, I'd say that fitting.
Fiona: it It absolutely does, but not immediately when it springs to mind, oh, biomedical scientist, what do you do? I'm like, I worked in human pathology for 18 years.
Fiona: Yeah.
Jez: ah yeah, put whiskey in a transfusion and just spin that puppy around and there we go.
Fiona: Why not? Yeah. Yeah. So gone from maybe trying to save lives to maybe not.
Jez: Cask finishing.
Fiona: I don't know, saving lives, yeah.
Jez: Oh, 1920s doctors were prescribing whiskey. It's fine.
Fiona: Yeah, exactly. um So very much a scientific background. And ah during COVID, I suppose, healthcare was a fairly hectic place to work. um And I'd not long lost my Scottish dad, and he loved a tipple, loved his whisky.
Jez: I'm sorry to hear.
Fiona: i but I was back 2019, yeah, but it's yeah always tough. um And we used to, my dad and I used to brew beer together in the backyard.
Fiona: I've got some horror stories of the things he used to do with
David Debattista : Mm-hmm.
Fiona: um brewing grain and my mother's stockings. We won't go into that.
Fiona: Absolute shocker. But, you know, really fond memories of that. And also, like, he got me into drinking whiskey at probably far too young an age. You know, he always thought it was really important that people learn how to drink whiskey properly, which was islam with ah a drop of tepid water. It had to be, you know, room temperature water. it was very particular about it.
Fiona: and So yeah, during those COVID years at pathology, it was pretty tough and ah started looking for something else that might, you know, bring some joy to my working career and floated in a few different options. But I just kept steering back to craft beer and and then ultimately went to a distilling course in Hobart after I started started studying because being a scientist, that's kind of what I do, just sort start studying stuff. And I was doing the IBD course in general certificate in brewing at the time.
Fiona: went to the distilling course in Hobart um and met the general manager of Hellia's at that time. um And he's like, you're from the northwest coast and you're a scientist.
Fiona: hmm, and you're looking at getting in this into this industry. He was quite, like, intrigued and basically said, come up for a chat, which I did, and landed that distilling job.
Fiona: um And then from there just sort of worked my way up from being distiller on the floor, running around that giant plant and into tanks and up onto tanks and capping in grain, having an absolute ball doing it. I bloody loved it.
Fiona: um And, Yeah, into the role of head distiller a few short years later. So it's been an absolutely wild ride over the last four years, but I've loved every second of it.
Fiona: It's so, so challenging now um being in that role of head distiller. It's more um yeah production planning and managing staff and is a it's a much, much more expanded role and it's really challenging.
Fiona: challenging and interesting and not something I could have ever dreamt of doing previously. So yeah, absolutely stoked.
Jez: So now that you're essentially running the production side of the distillery from like a ah head distilling background, how did you find the transition from, I'd say, like distilling your own stock and getting that ready for future releases and taking ownership of someone else's stock and try and guide that into your new releases like... ah I'd say some of the new ones behind me because you are you graish ah gracefully hooked me up with this glorious 20-year.
Jez: I got 21-year as well. How hard are those spirits to work with when you didn't root like you didn't distill them so you're like, all right, we've got this product here, let's...
Fiona: Yeah. Look, it's always going to be, you know, if you if you plan to release um older whiskey, it's always going to be like running two businesses. It's going to be I'm making it.
Fiona: That's the pure production side of um laying down stock and, you know running through all the quality things and maintenance programs and running a distillery.
Jez: Mm-hmm.
Fiona: It's very very much its own beast. And then the other side, that flip side is, the marketing the barrel types, the the barrel house, what I've got in maturation and how um that those barrels are coming along and monitoring the the maturation, doing sensory assessments, all that sort of stuff. So they're very, very different aspects to the same overarching business. So absolutely challenging um to dedicate the right amount of time to to both aspects.
Fiona: um And it is kind of cool to inherit all that stuff because you go, oh, who would have been the distiller at this time? Who who distilled this? Oh, yeah.
Fiona: And, you know, the records from way, way back, ah and on paper, shoved in a, you know. the The recording of stuff. I mean, yeah, it was recorded. It was all on paper. But when we upgraded to everything being on the computer, a lot of that stuff didn't get transferred. So you've got literally got to go sifting back going, oh, how much did they mash at this time? And and what were the spirit runs like? What were the cuts like?
Fiona: um So it is a like... like digging for little nuggets of gold when you're going back through those records. um And, yeah, really interesting to see what they they got up to.
Fiona: And they did lots and lots of experimenting in the early years as well. So it's been really interesting to find records of um very early days when they doing trials around temperatures and yeast and and bits and bobs.
Fiona: um But, yeah, down many, many, many years down the track, you know, 20 years, yeah Our oldest barrels now in the Bond store are just turning 23. 23 years down the track, it's hard to tie together, actually, what they did back then as as new makers to the mature whiskey because the mature whiskey can be so varied amongst all those um individual barrels.
Fiona: um So it's an interesting journey is the upshot. that
Jez: Yeah, it is. they Each whiskey barrel takes its own journey, right? like
Fiona: It does.
Jez: You'd see different temperature swings between like season to season and the distilling practices would have changed as well. Yeah.
Fiona: They would have. The yeast strains, the grain varieties over the years have changed multiple times. Yes, they're all going to be similar, but slowly improved perhaps over time for yield and um pest resistance, that sort of thing. So there's there's that that variability that's built into the process, but then there's that huge variability that comes from individual cast to cast. So we've got a really beautiful example in our Bond store of two casts from 2004 that have spent their entire lives seated together on the same cradle in the Bond store, basically in the same location, and they were distilled mashed and distilled in the same run.
Fiona: So it's the same same new mate that went in. But those barrels are poles apart in terms of profile. So one's super fruity and tropical and amazing and the other one's got this real leather tobacco kind of note going on and it's a much, much different beast.
David Debattista : Thank
Fiona: Like it's... They're just so different. So then, you you know, you do all the things to make your and new mate the same, same, same every time, and then the cast comes and just goes, nah, don't take it this direction.
Fiona: So, yeah, that's cool.
Jez: It's so interesting. It's like crazy to watch. It's like, know you know, you did everything right. Everything's the same up until that cask. And that's one thing you don't have control over because you're just going to let nature do its thing.
Fiona: Not really. Yes. yeah They're both Jack Daniels casks from the same shipment, I would assume, probably from the same um bond store, you know, and and in Jack.
Jez: Yeah.
Jez: Same Coopridge and everything else.
Fiona: Yeah. that yeah
Jez: Yeah.
Fiona: and But, hey, the timber was different, so you get different extractives. So there you go.
Jez: Yeah. It's like different pores within that wood and it'll just either suck it up quicker or let it sit.
Fiona: Yeah, that's it.
Jez: But i'll ah I'll throw it over to you, David. How hard is it to sell hyperage whiskey in the ah the current whiskey climate? um
David Debattista : Yeah, it's it's pretty entertaining.
Fiona: Thank you.
David Debattista : um lot of the time, yeah, like a lot of the time we get told, like, know, I'll go up someone and go, have you ever had Tassie whiskey before?
Jez: Entertaining is the word.
David Debattista : They'll, you know, announce one or two brands that maybe they've heard of before.
Jez: yep
David Debattista : But they've been told sort of a story by nearly everybody in the industry. Oh, you know, Australian whiskey is really young. You know, there is no old whiskey in Australia. It's normal to be, you know, whiskey that comes in a small bottle with no age.
David Debattista : for two, $300 and yeah.
Jez: At two, three years old, I just want to glass someone.
David Debattista : and Yeah.
Jez: i can't deal with it.
David Debattista : And like, I, I love a good challenge, but I also love sort of sometimes proving people wrong, you know?
Fiona: Thank you.
David Debattista : So I love saying, well, actually let me show you something.
Jez: Yeah.
David Debattista : Let me tell you a story, you know, let me take you through. Cause that's my job. My job is to talk to people, you above and beyond everything. It's always just, I get to go sit down with people,
David Debattista : talk to them, pour them some whiskey. It's a pretty good challenge to have. You know, not going to complain, that's for sure. But sometimes people will have a preconceived idea. You know, they'll be like, oh, you know, it's all young.
David Debattista : It's all no good. Or, you know, like it's only sold in Australia. You know, it's, you know, stuff that's been made in someone's shed. And I'll go, well, actually, you know, could have been.
Jez: It have been.
Fiona: Thank you.
David Debattista : There's a lot of the shed distilleries in Tassie.
Jez: Yeah, so...
David Debattista : And I go, but actually the distillery I'm going to show you today was founded in the 90s, you know, we're purpose-built facility. When we were built with the biggest in Southern Hemisphere, you know, we were built for export in mind.
David Debattista : We've been selling whiskey overseas since, you know, 2010s, you know, so it's not like it's something that's only made in Australia. Our brand is sold overseas. Let me show you some things that we sell overseas. Like I love telling people, not you're wrong, but let me show you what we've got and show you how this story that you've heard isn't quite correct.
David Debattista : Let me make mic you open your eyes to something that's fantastic tasting. You know, so when, and I mean, I do whiskey shows all the time. yeah I was in Canberra, you know, week and a half ago doing a whiskey show and I told copious persons one after the other, here you go, let me give you a sample of a 20 year old.
David Debattista : And they're like, what?
Jez: What?
David Debattista : What do you mean mean a 20 year old?
Jez: Yeah.
Fiona: Thank you.
David Debattista : What? What are you talking about? And i was like yeah, I've got a 20 year old here and I'm perfectly happy to share it with you because you want to learn more. You want to know about this. You know, you're eager to know That's what you're at this event for. And let me show you what we have.
David Debattista : Tastes great. It's fantastic. It's won awards all over the world. And it's made right here. You know, so you get that polar opposite, had no idea that there is even such thing as old Australian whiskey.
David Debattista : And then you get the people that may have tried our whiskey once 15 years ago. one of our first releases, in all honesty, probably wasn't very good. So they have a preconceived idea.
David Debattista : So sometimes it can be a battle. Sometimes it can be an opinion that I welcome. So I can let you see what 15 years worth of work is now God has to, you know, because that's how Scotland started. Let's face it.
David Debattista : You know, when their whiskeys first got started 200 years ago, nothing like what they're producing now. Let me show you the same transition from Australia. So there is a lot of conversations that have to be had to get people onto the level of understanding before they even are willing to buy.
Fiona: Thank you.
David Debattista : um
Jez: It's...
David Debattista : I suppose, is that answer to your original question?
Jez: oh
Jez: Well, like we know that a lot of Australians have been burnt by Australian whiskey. So it's it's purely just trying to guide that narrative into a place where people feel comfortable enough to try whiskey. That's where I'd say the whiskey shows are great because you just get plenty of exposure to a heap of Australian brands. And then you're like, all right, well, now you've tried these ones, which ones do you actually enjoy? And then you can just go in hard and try those. But I know you love talking about...
Jez: Whiskey, so did you want to take me through one of the releases you sent me up? What do you have kicking around on your bar you could kind of take me through?
David Debattista : Sure, sure.
Fiona: Sorry.
David Debattista : Maybe, maybe let's start at the start from the series that we sent you.
Jez: Yep.
David Debattista : We'll start you with the Aurora Australis.
Jez: Yep, that is... Yep, in my hand right here. These are the fanciest sample bottles I've ever seen in my life. these That's going to be...
David Debattista : They're actually our 200 mil range. So we actually do sell them retail. So they're not made just for samples.
Jez: Yeah. No, but like...
David Debattista : They're currently rolling their way up onto the mainland and give backs and then individual representation as well.
Jez: It is the coolest way to receive a ah product though because you get brands that are like, oh yeah, we'll you know we'll knock out a 200 mil sample and it's got this sticker on the front and it's like below average on the time and effort put in, the thought put into like a 200 mil sample is...
Fiona: but
Jez: incredible like it's all marked on the front there's a um like marked as in branding on the front it's all i love it yeah all right i gotta get a glass because i'm gonna
David Debattista : Yeah, our CEO, Derek, would probably never allow us to send out a ah sticky tape labelled mini bottle for a tasting for just this occasion. Someone holds that up to a camera, he'd be like, that's why we don't.
Jez: that is no spot on it
Fiona: ah system
David Debattista : So a lot of work did go into that that branding.
Fiona: Yep.
David Debattista : um I'm sure many people remember the old Hellier's Road branding, are tall, thin bottles, um you know, with the men and the dog on the label um and that liquid.
David Debattista : in those bottles was in there for nearly 20 years. And, you know, when we see these big brands over in Scotland, like Glanfittic, Macallan, they update their packaging these days about every six, seven years, it feels.
Jez: six, seven months?
David Debattista : You know, yeah, true.
Jez: What are you talking about? It's just like, yeah, new relation.
David Debattista : it was definitely due for an update um so that the effort that went into the rebrand, into the full-size bottles, into those mini ones that you see there, and just the imagery and everything that went into it has done
Jez: Hmm.
David Debattista : leaps and bounds a lot of the work for us to reposition the product back into market. um And now with Fiona's blending and distillation going into the these liquids as well, that has now brought the liquid up to the level of which it's now represented as well.
David Debattista : So it's definitely ah seen a marketed shift in the last ah few years of in-market visibility and appreciation now.
Jez: I realize I don't have any nails and I'm trying to open this plastic cap.
Fiona: Oh, that's a cluster cap, sorry.
Jez: It's defeated
Fiona: um
Jez: Yeah, that's how get it done.
Fiona: The Tampa Seals are a necessary evil, unfortunately.
David Debattista : ah
Jez: Nose, you know what? I'm all about it it. is secure just to keep me out, I guess.
Fiona: Yeah.
Jez: that's As I did say, childproof.
Fiona: Yeah.
David Debattista : Well, we do those little bottles, those 200ml bottles with a um ah partner of ours, the tasman hobart ah the Tasman down in Hobart, beautiful hotel.
Jez: There
Jez: hey we go.
David Debattista : And they love those Tampa Seals because their room service can know as soon as they look at the bottle. I don't know someone's opened it straight away.
Fiona: ah Whether it's in.
Jez: Ah.
Fiona: There's not tea in there.
Jez: Amazing.
David Debattista : And they know to bill that client's credit card as a result.
Fiona: one's put salt tea in there.
David Debattista : yeah
Fiona: um Yeah, so this this one, Aurora.
David Debattista : But, yeah, so this Aurora Australis, you tell us all about the liquid fee because you're the one that made it
Fiona: I'm sorry. yes yeah
Fiona: Sure. So this one... um We call this our breakfast whisky. know if you're familiar with the but it's the whisky for all occasions essentially.
Jez: All about it.
Fiona: So it is um slightly lower in alcohol than our sort of house alcohol content. So it's down at 40%. Our normal house ABV is 46.2.
Fiona: um So a little bit lighter on the alcohol and it is ah made to be aye infinitely approachable, hence the term breakfast whisky, but be at a price point um below $100 so that it's, ah again, it's about getting that liquid on lips, encouraging Australian consumers to give the brand another crack um and taste the new Hellier's Road.
Fiona: So this is um an American oak base in this whisky. uh predominantly american oat matured whiskey uh but with a sprinkling of different finishing casks that give it um a little bit of zhuzh and it' it's like going to your spice drawer i always say it's about the the two whiskeys roaring 40s and aurora australis it's about going to the spice drawer in your kitchen and deciding know i'm going to cook a curry maybe or a I don't know, a Bolognese, two quite different whiskies, but they've they've got those different finishing casks in them that give them that take them in a different direction, those two whiskies. They're essentially the same American oak base.
Fiona: um So I can tell you that the Aurora has a tiny pinch of... about 4.5% of Vinsanto cask finish. There's an insanely um lush Italian dessert wine, ah tiny little 50-litre finishing casks that were absolutely bonkers um when they came in. They were just super sweet and crazy.
Fiona: ah It's got a pinch of that. It's got some French oak finishing in there. to give it so a little bit more structure ah those french oak tannins giving a little bit more structure it was a little bit sort of um derek's term flabby without without that french factor to give it that structure um what else has that got in it it has absolutely yeah yeah and it has um
Jez: French hook is great for structure though. Just kind of brings it all back in.
Fiona: ah one that you will not have heard of, I ah doubt, Canadian Bareface Whiskey Finishing. So they use um three different cast types in their in their whiskey and the finishing cast, oh, really?
Jez: Yup.
Fiona: No way. That's so cool.
Jez: Here's what I've prepared earlier.
Fiona: Amazing. Very cool. I'm not saying that.
Jez: I could probably tell you the cast types they use, but that's just the nerd in me.
Fiona: ah Yeah, they use like Hungarian oak, red wine cast. So the cast that we had for finishing were the red wine portion or that that portion in its journey.
Jez: Yep.
Fiona: um so and But it obviously had their whiskey in it, which gives it this nice little icing sugar, little, yeah, real little sweet icing sugar note.
Fiona: um Yeah, so it's, as I said, infinitely approachable, great price point. um and a great way to introduce people to the Hellys Road brand.
Jez: It's so interesting you said icing sugar because I was nosy and I was like, I thought it was a cherry ripe and I was like, no, i'm I'm pretty sure it's a cherry ripe.
Jez: And then you said icing sugar and I'm like, oh, it's a whole different ball game now.
Fiona: separate Okay.
Jez: I'm like, maybe now it's like, I don't know, it's more like a mound of icing sugar and it's like, don't know, a little bit of coconut going on there.
Fiona: Yeah, cool.
Fiona: Yeah.
David Debattista : Yeah. And Fiona touched on it there.
Jez: and That is...
David Debattista : Like this is designed for people to step into the brand again after maybe trying it a long time ago, probably buying a cheap one that wasn't very nice and going, oh, that was no good and never coming back to it.
Jez: Hmm.
David Debattista : You we wanted to give them an easy entry into the category. And for Australian whiskey, that usually revolves around price.
Jez: Hmm.
David Debattista : Let's face it. You know, people are ah afraid.
Fiona: yeah
David Debattista : to test an Australian whiskey because chances are it's stupid expensive.
Fiona: Thank you.
Jez: Yeah.
David Debattista : um So, I mean, this, like Fiona touched on quickly, this is a 700ml bottle. Hell's Road was filled in a 700ml bottle. Your Australis here, 700ml on shelf, 99 bucks for 100% Tasmanian single malt too.
David Debattista : This isn't a blend.
Jez: yeah
David Debattista : It's not mixed in with any grain spirit or anything like that. This is 100% made at the distillery. and then blended by Fiona at the end. So we're representing good value to people, you know, because we're giving them 700 mils of Tasmanian whiskey at a price approachable point.
David Debattista : Yeah, it's my job to go see venues. I'll tell them, make a whiskey sour with it. You don't have to be precious. You know, is this comes in, you know, it's like $3.80 a shot, LUC, you know.
Jez: No.
Jez: Yeah.
David Debattista : You can play with it. Don't be afraid, oh, you know, it's Tassie whiskey. You can only have it neat, you know, with one tepid water drop, like Faye was saying. You know, this is designed for people to really play around when they do whiskey sours with it.
David Debattista : You know, it's really, really fun. Have it in a mixer, whatever. You know, as long as you enjoy it, that's what counts.
Jez: yeah
David Debattista : And I think that's part of where that success lies because it's a good price point. But when people try it, they go, so actually quite approachable. and I don't mind that. It's nice. It's good. It's there. It ticks all those boxes.
David Debattista : So for me, it's a game changer conversation because I can say, here's a Tassie whiskey that's not going to cost you the earth.
Jez: Well, the Australian palates are so sweet as well. So the fact that you're bringing them in and you're like, right, we've got these all these different kinds of sweet casks going on.
David Debattista : um
Jez: And it's really, i'd say, softening that malt. Because once again, I don't drink, well, I ah drink a little bit of Australian whiskey, but it's like, as you can see, there's bourbon behind me.
David Debattista : ah
Jez: It's like, it's sweet palate. So it's like, all right, we're using these bourbon casts.
Fiona: Yeah.
Jez: We've got little bit of sweetness going on here. And it's like, oh okay, this is actually approachable for me. It's like, this is actually something I can sit on and it's not going to essentially blow out the palate.
Jez: And you're not going to be able to go to something else next because you're like, i the palate's cooked for the rest of the night.
Fiona: Awesome.
David Debattista : Hmm.
Jez: High praise is what I'm saying.
David Debattista : So.
Jez: Well done.
Fiona: Thank you. Yeah. So that's
David Debattista : Fiona did a good job considering this was what, this was something we only introduced at the start of the year, wasn't it?
Fiona: Yeah, we'd been working through um all the sensory and um sort of blind tasting for a few months to sort of perfect the the two whiskeys, Roaring Forties and Aurora Australis, for this sort of project to get this launched in this and this year.
Fiona: and And that was great fun to actually send out – um We did a competitor set tasting over Christmas, which was really, really interesting to send out a bunch of our whiskies mixed in with Scottish whiskies and some Australian ones and see, you know, where do we where do we sit?
Fiona: it was all blind tasting and no one knew what they were tasting. They all had to, you know, enter in the little codes on the bottles and do it that way.
Jez: Mm-hmm.
Fiona: Yeah. Yeah, it was really exciting um for me to get that sort of validation, yes, we're on the right track with these whiskies. They're grading really well against a whole range of Scottish and Australian whiskies.
Fiona: Let's roll with it because, you know, the price point for our whiskies was way below any of the Aussie whiskies that went into that blind tasting. So, um yeah, we're definitely on the right track.
Jez: No, that's great. It's such an approachable whiskey. A great way to kind of open people's minds back into the fold now.
Fiona: Awesome.
Jez: Going, hey, let's try that. um Thank you for sharing that one with me. What should we move to next? so Because I'm very curious. Like if that one is opening up.
David Debattista : I think did we have we had Aurora Australis, then we have a peated seven-year-old,
Jez: Mm-hmm.
Fiona: What? Wait.
David Debattista : and the Oloroso 10-year-old, and then we go up to the Voyager.
Jez: Ooh.
David Debattista : So I would probably say leave let's park the Pete to the end and go to the Oloroso 10-year-old.
Jez: Yep.
David Debattista : What reckon?
Jez: Done. Use my handy card here to open the copy back up.
David Debattista : yes
Jez: God, these seals are great.
Jez: Ah, yes.
David Debattista : Keep our warehousing team happy at least. They did their job well.
Jez: Yeah, absolutely.
David Debattista : yeah
Fiona: Okay.
David Debattista : I suppose ah it's a good um point to touch on too because we were talking about age previously, about those older whiskeys and um this whiskey that we're about to pour once you get through that indestructible seal.
David Debattista : ah
Jez: Oh, no, it's off. I'm just trying to make sure I can put the cork back in the glass.
David Debattista : is good
Jez: Let me rinse it.
David Debattista : um This whiskey, the Olorosa Yerez, this is 10 years of age. This is still part of our core range though. You know, so even though this is 10 years, by most Australian whiskeys, this would be considered old.
David Debattista : For us, this is part of our core range younger set that we put out to market. So we're quite lucky, and Fiona will touch on it, because no one knows the casks better than Fiona.
David Debattista : If I need to get to any, have to get through her.
Fiona: perfect
David Debattista : um But, like, this is, you know, ah something of what I'm quite lucky. I'm spoilt for riches to have a 10-year-old Australian whisky that i can offer to people at a really competitive price point um and the liquid speak for itself that's what i think sets hellyes apart
Jez: I was going to ask, what is the Bond store mainly made up of then? Because obviously you've inherited a lot of casts from previous generations. And now your, I'd say your core range is now 10. And he said it's on the younger side. Where are you guys kind of sitting?
Fiona: Oh, as in age statement-wise throughout the Bond store?
Jez: Like age statement wise, yeah.
Fiona: Yes. um Definitely It's been an interesting business over the years, I guess, because they did have a hiatus or um not a complete hiatus, but they did have a period where they didn't produce a lot.
Fiona: I don't know if you know the full history of Helly's, but it was um actually started by the Better Milk Co-op. So they actually had the milk company for most of the time that that portion of the business was sold off in 2019.
Fiona: So at various times their focus shifted back to to that business, which was the breadwinner. So most distilleries um these days, it' like sorry?
Jez: Milkwinner.
Jez: Milkwinner.
Fiona: Yeah, that's it. So, you know, they...
Jez: Yeah.
David Debattista : You
Jez: It was the other company.
Fiona: ah
Fiona: um So most distilleries would have... gin or something as their cash cow while they, um, wait for their brown spirits to mature, not cash cow, but you know what it mean?
Fiona: Like it's their cash flow.
Jez: Milk cow. I got you.
Fiona: Cash flow. Yeah.
Jez: Yep.
Fiona: So, um, And for Hellia's it was better milk. So at various times through the history they've sort of refocused back on milk and sort of parked the distillery for a bit.
Fiona: um So there's a lot of old, old, old stuff and there's a bit of a gap. And then there's um from 2014 on there's, again, a steady increase in production through to ah the last couple of years we've smashed our KPIs and and laid down loads of tasks. So, yes, there's a lot of young stuff in our bond stores and there's a lot of old stuff, but in between there is sort of interesting period of um not a hell of lot, to put it plainly.
Jez: okay As it happens though, like, you know.
Fiona: So it does, it does. You know, there's, you know, many other distilleries would understand that the pull and push of, oh, can I afford malt? Can I afford yeast?
Fiona: You know, to run our um distillery because we have an electric boiler, ah it's at the moment 40 grand a month in electricity just to turn the thing on.
Jez: Wow. Yeah, that's mental.
Fiona: So that's quite yeah quite a slide from, um you know, we we mash in five and a half tonne of malt per run and that's twice a week plus the yeast cost. It's an expensive business to lay down casks and then sit on them for for as long as we do. Maybe.
Fiona: um
Jez: You're better off selling milk.
David Debattista : What's the ah saying, Fi, when the stills get turned on, the town knows.
Jez: milk
Fiona: maybe
Fiona: Yeah.
David Debattista : You know, we pull that much power and that much water, it kicks.
Fiona: And look, and yeah, but and we'll we'll get to it later on when you have a look at the whiskey cream, but um these days the whiskey cream is, um I suppose, what brings in that steady income to allow us.
Jez: i was I was going to touch on that as well.
Fiona: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we can um talk about that when you get to taste it, I suppose. But, yeah, so we still...
David Debattista : Hmm.
Jez: Amazing.
Fiona: keep those those dairy roots going with the whiskey cream.
Jez: So ah take me through this Oloroso cask. Oloroso is one of my favorite cask finishings.
Fiona: This is not a finishing though.
Jez: um so
Fiona: Yeah.
Jez: ah
Fiona: This is full life maturation in Australia.
Jez: Full maturation, I like it.
Fiona: you had to understand the... um The differences that our climate has whisky is not the same as a sherry cask out of Scotland. Very different, but they are...
Jez: I love
Fiona: Yeah, full-life maturation in two hundred and fifty litre ah legit Oloroso casks came over in a big shipment in 2014. I have seen the meeting minutes where they're all fretting about, oh, my God, these casks are so expensive. They better be bloody amazing.
Fiona: um And then they just filled them straight up with new make. Amazing. actually Such a great thing to do, yeah.
Jez: ah love it
Fiona: And we've got a big um packet of – Sepulchfield Tawny Port casks at the same time. So there's, in 2014, there's this bonkers package of, um, yeah, fully matured port and Sherry casks.
Fiona: So, um, a few years ago, ah we released this as a seven year old, um, our seven year old Sherry and,
Jez: you
Fiona: In in a short three years, the whiskey has changed so much. So the the seven-year-old, in my mind, was – um hello it was you know, quite bright and fresh and it had some sort of sharp corners in in my mind and and the tasting.
Fiona: But now 10 years later, this this whiskey has ah got old and fat and it's just loaded with umami and a really rich palate.
Fiona: So it's bonkers.
Jez: Say that nose is so creamy.
Fiona: It's huge. It's a huge whiskey on the nose and palate. So,
Jez: Yeah. Where did you guys source your cuss from, if you know? Mmm.
Fiona: I don't know the bodega, sorry, for these casks. aye Again, record keeping ah somewhat.
Jez: Mmm.
Fiona: ah could I could have another dig. I'm sure there's something somewhere. But they're but but relatively unmarked, these casks.
Jez: Ah, it's delicious.
Fiona: They're not stamped. So, yeah. And there's a smattering of PX casks in amongst them too, and you yeah only know they're a PX by stamp on the back of them.
Jez: Interesting.
Jez: Oh.
Fiona: It's random.
Jez: Yeah.
David Debattista : A lot of um people's wanting to know about their specific sourcing, I think, works when you're buying maybe a few here or there.
Jez: Mm-mm.
David Debattista : You know, like, you know, you're calling an old chap that, you know, and you're like, hey, I've got enough money to scratch together for, you know, two or three cars. What can you get for me? But Like I've seen it even like last November we had a huge influx of casks come into the distillery and made sure I was there that day.
David Debattista : And literally these shipping containers, 40-foot shipping containers come in, they get pulled off the back of the truck, the seal gets cracked, the doors open and you look in and there's 300 casks crammed into every nook and cranny. The door's open, the casks are about to fly out at you they're that tightly in because these cask brokers that we use and these people that source these casks for us,
David Debattista : They're sourcing from here, there and everywhere. We're filling every inch of that container. So, you know, we're not going to say, I only want casks from such and such.
Jez: A certain, yep.
David Debattista : You know, we want we we need volume. When Fiona does a full mash in, you're filling up yeah know up to 30, 200 litre casks per spirit run when it's full.
Fiona: Oh wait, yeah, oh wait, no, that's okay, wait, yeah.
David Debattista : Yeah.
Jez: Mental.
Fiona: Yeah, that's that's over two runs.
David Debattista : So we're not we're not looking at, yeah, we're not looking at, you know, just one or two here or there. Fiona needs to move that new make into wood. straight away.
Jez: Yeah.
David Debattista : So we need volume.
Fiona: So, yeah, like and it's...
David Debattista : So, you know, <unk>re we're getting lots of types.
Fiona: It's the tricky thing about being on the other side of the world too. You you are reliant on brokers to um do the right thing and also the bodegas on the other side of the world to to also do the right thing. So, um yeah, I can't say too much about the cast from 2014, but I do know that the whiskey is fantastic.
Fiona: um But, you know, otherwise cast sourcing, we do have um partners that we've worked with for, you know, 20-odd years ah for bourbon cask sourcing, so that's quite um steady.
Fiona: And since 2016 for bourbon casks we've been sourcing Heaven Hill A-grade select bourbons. But, yeah, the sherrys,
Jez: Yeah. Heaven Hill is such a great distillery to source barrels from as well.
Fiona: yeah, yeah, and they, yeah, nice.
Jez: Yeah. Kelvin does some incredible work.
Fiona: But, yeah, the sherry and the bodegas,
David Debattista : How good was um that container?
Fiona: Different story. So yeah, Sherry cast it.
David Debattista : Fee, what about that um that American oak container last year in November? remember we opened it up and it was like all those Barton casks and then it was like Buzzard's Roost and
Fiona: Oh, that was, yeah.
Jez: Yep.
David Debattista : Sagamore spirit casks and like so many different things it was like it was like a candy store Fee and I were rolling and it was hot as fuck and we're like wheeling casks out into the courtyard we're like looking at the heads going what's this one and what's that one and what's this oh my god I'm sending pictures to but remember sending pictures to Ray at Barrow and Batch going you know this distillery is this any good you know what about this is this any good yeah and it was just it was crazy
Fiona: So,
Jez: Hmm.
Jez: Love it.
Fiona: yeah.
Jez: Yeah.
Fiona: So again, like, yeah, we had to go through a barrel broker. There there was a period I think last year where in the States they were holding onto their barrels and not wanting to let them outside the country. um They were trying to, I think it's part of a bit of a plan.
Fiona: It was just really annoying. Yeah.
David Debattista : Oh. Hmm.
Jez: You're back.
Fiona: Goodo. Yeah, so part of ah a bit of a plan to kind of pull things back to the States and and not let those casks offshore because, that you know, they've got other spirits industries that are now sprouting up and using those ex-bourbons in America. So they necessarily don't need to send them offshore.
Fiona: So, yeah, there was a ah problem getting casks last year. So we did get um that load through ah barrel broker. But it was really cool because those Barton casts are amazing.
Fiona: Can't wait to see those um come to maturation.
David Debattista : Mm-hmm.
Fiona: Yeah.
Jez: What would be your your full cycle on, say, that Barton barrel? Would you just go in and and taste it and see where it's kind of sitting? Or would you say, all right, look, we're going to run it for, say, 10, 15, 20 years?
Fiona: um Excuse me, sorry.
Jez: yeah
Fiona: So we'd probably start looking at them at that four-year mark. ah So we'll probably park them for at least three years and not probably look at them. um Warehousing, mean, you know what and moving moving barrels around is like.
Fiona: It's a bloody nightmare for – there's a lot of man hours and –
Jez: It's like 500 and some kilos.
Fiona: Yeah, and and just, you know, it's all on racking.
Jez: No, thanks.
Fiona: It's got to go into a warehouse. You've got to pull it all out with forklift. And it's not the easiest thing in the world just to go and I'm going to go sample some barrels today. and So, yeah two yeah, probably two or three years we'll park those casks and in one of the off-site bond stores.
David Debattista : Mm-hmm.
Fiona: not look at them and then at that three year mark we'll start sampling and assessing and seeing how they're traveling um so one of the advantages is obviously in in the off-site bond stores in tassie is that they're the good old tin shed uh so they've got a bit more of that diurnal variation in temperature um they're nice and close to the ocean so we get that nice um salinity and uh exposure Bass Strait, which is the ocean out front, which is pretty tumultuous and and crazy, brings some pretty good weather.
Fiona: um So we like the influence influence um that that has on our whiskey. ah So, yeah, it's a completely different maturation environment to what we have on site, which is a big concrete bunker, essentially, the on-site bond stores.
Fiona: So a lot of the old stuff's been pulled back to the on-site Bond store to sit and chill out in the the nice cool depths of our racking. um Yeah, so that three-year mark, we start looking at them and potentially on how they're tracking, they might get used for, you know, or go into finishing casts to be prepared for something like Aurora, Roaring 40s or FIBA.
Fiona: at that five-year mark, we'd be looking at putting them into finishing for um double casks. So they'd be going into the X-Pen-On-Y casks from around the state.
Fiona: um And if they're really exceptional, where we might earmark them to sit as are a single cask and see how they're travelling at that maybe that eight or ten-year mark.
Fiona: and see if they're still tracking as maybe single cast, we'd leave them and earmark them in in the register potential single cast, hold on until X date to assess again.
Fiona: um But if they're not earmarked, they're generally fair game to go into a finishing or or something else. But we do do keep a whole chunk as straight American oak for, ah you know, either single cast or a straight American oak.
Fiona: um release ah Well, that's an ah and historical
Jez: That's great.
David Debattista : Mm-hmm.
Jez: I was going to ask you, um the Oloroso 10-year, it's bottled at 46.2%. What made you decide that was the perfect bottling strength?
Fiona: thing for Hellia's, that's our house ABV, ah but also it's above that magic 46% mark, which limits the amount of flocking. So we are non-coloured and non-chill filtered in any of our whiskies, which is going to be interesting actually for the roaring 40s and Aurora that are lower in ABV to see how they go with flocking. But it's just um to minimise the amount of flocking that we get from those... um you know, heavy oils and things coming out of the wood and also from the distillation.
Fiona: So that's that just that magic um alcohol that sort of helps to keep those compounds in suspension versus clumping them up.
Jez: Yeah.
Jez: yeah
David Debattista : I tell you, you've got to see these Bond stores too, Jez. Like that is what got me over the line in the end to go and work for Helliers.
Jez: yeah
David Debattista : Like when you stand in Bond store one, so that's the one at the distillery, you know, there's over 2,400 casks in there. They're all full-size casks too. That's not, you little dinky ones.
David Debattista : That's 200 litres and above. You stand there and you look at the cask heads, they go I don't know how many barrels high is it, Fee? Like, don't even know.
Fiona: ah Seven seven high seven deep are the rows on one side, five deep on the other.
David Debattista : ah
Jez: Oh.
Fiona: um
David Debattista : yeah
Fiona: Yeah, so there's there's a lot of casks in that room, yeah.
David Debattista : And you look at, that is the, exactly, that's the distillation history of Australia in there.
Fiona: and And some of the oldest whiskey, yeah.
David Debattista : Like, you stand up there and you look at casks that are from 2002, 2003, that are still aging away in there, you know, and you're just like, oh, shit, I didn't realize that. You can read the types of barley the guys put that on the front of the casks.
David Debattista : So can look up and read Planet and Franklin and all those types of things there and literally read your way through through the history. And if you understand the codes and and the colours and what they mean, you know, even the experiments that Fee touched on earlier, you know, there are whiskeys in there that have never been released in Australia before that still haven't seen the light of day, that ah types of whiskeys that people wouldn't have even known have been made in the state or in the country.
Fiona: Thank you.
David Debattista : for that, that have significant age on them. So that excitement and that that depth of history, when people come and do the tour and then see that, that's where I think they start to realise that the sheer scope of the distillery and how it was built back in the day.
David Debattista : know, everybody thinks everything was a benchtop still, you know, I found this at the local market and started boiling up a bottle of VB and, you figured out how to, how to, how to make a whiskey, you know, Hellia's wasn't like that.
David Debattista : Hellia's was built by that dairy cooperative that Fiona talked about so with a mindset of let's build this distillery. So in the future, we've got enough liquid to sell to the world, you know, and when you see it, like the, the room with the stills and all the equipment in it, it's almost hard to decipher. There's so much going on in there.
David Debattista : you know, the stills are enormous. The, the grain silos, the equipment, the mash tun is an engineering feat onto itself. You know, you look at all this and you're like, Jesus Christ, this fucking enormous.
David Debattista : yeah And it was, you know, at the time. That was the was the biggest distillery in the Southern Hemisphere. You know, it's massive.
Fiona: we We had the biggest wash still until just recently, actually. I think we got trumped by a rum distillery somewhere.
David Debattista : Crazy.
Fiona: I'm not sure where the rum distillery is, but I know there's one that's bigger in the southern hemisphere now. But the um the the wash still is 60,000 litres in total capacity.
Jez: Good lord.
Fiona: like yeah It's massive. So, you know, even by Scottish standards, that's huge.
Jez: Yeah.
Fiona: But it it comes with a caveat.
David Debattista : It's massive. Incredible.
Fiona: It does come with a caveat. It takes 50-something hours to distill out. That's why we're not pumping out, like, enormous volumes because it's literally two runs a week is what we can manage around the various...
Jez: Yeah.
Fiona: idiosyncrasies um from the plant, which, you know, they all add. It's like the indelible fingerprint of Hellia's Road is um all those quirks that that are from that um that distillery. It's really cool.
Fiona: It's like, oh, we have to do it this way because of this and that and that, but it all adds to that. um Really, really interesting and, um yeah, it's definitely a Hellia's whiskey, you know. People can pick it.
Fiona: We
Jez: Well, i can't believe how good this is. It is mind-blowing that it can sit in a ah sherry cask for 10 years and still come out so syrupy. And even at 46%, am very surprised.
Fiona: were taking more of that today actually for bottling that sherry cask.
Jez: yeah
Fiona: um God, it smelled good. It smelled so good.
Jez: Dangerous. There's no way I could be. it There's no way I could work there. I'd just be like, oh, just ah just a little taste. just
Fiona: Well, it's part of your job.
Jez: I'd be cooked by lunch.
Fiona: if you If you work there, it's your job. So there is. but
David Debattista : And Faye, probably just to touch on
Fiona: Yeah.
David Debattista : So this isn't like a single cast release, right? Like this is done in volume.
Fiona: No.
David Debattista : You know, there are many casts that go into this final blend that Fe's created to create this flavor profile. And like she said, tipping some more just now, even, you know, to create more liquid to feed this release.
Fiona: Yeah.
Jez: No.
David Debattista : We're not doing a, you know, this is one batch of 200 bottles. There's thousands of bottles in this. You know, we sell this all over Australia. We sell this internationally as well, you know, so, you know, for the brand,
David Debattista : You know, where we've been predominantly probably American oak known, you know, to have the foresight back in 2014 to have bought these sherry casks and filled them in for a 10 year maturation is that is pretty forward thinking and pretty special, I think, in my opinion.
Fiona: up
Fiona: Absolutely.
Jez: Well, it's funny you bring up American Oat because i have 20 year hands here. and my hands here
Fiona: Okay. Is that the Oloroso finish? Where is it?
Jez: 16 years ex-bourbon, then secondary maturation, four years French oak.
David Debattista : Voyager.
Fiona: Oh, that's Voyager cask.
Jez: French oak liqueur.
David Debattista : Voyager.
Fiona: Yeah, Voyager cask.
Jez: Voyager, yeah.
Fiona: Yeah. So this one...
David Debattista : Voyager. That is...
Fiona: This won gold at World Whiskey Awards this year this because we've done this is the the third Voyager cask.
Jez: Congratulations.
Fiona: So we had a ah series of casks that were from, um you know, there's a bit of a story around the liqueur casks that they were filled into.
Jez: Mm-hmm.
Fiona: ah um Frogmore Creek Pinot Noir and then from there, to a French patissier in Hobart, Jean Pascal, who's quite a legend in Hobart for his um sort of bakery delights.
Fiona: And he so essentially macerated the fruit for his fruit mince pies in in brandy in those casks, and then, ah you know, used these fruit, sent the casks back to Frogmore Creek, and they then popped in their ruby pinot,
Jez: stop it
Fiona: And then when they decanted that, then they came to us. So they're bonkers cars.
Jez: amazing
Fiona: We recently got another couple of those and they smell absolutely divine. um Yeah, so the third release and 20 years old.
David Debattista : Probably to touch on that, Fiona probably talks it down a little because we're obviously used to it all the time. But this is a pretty bloody remarkable whiskey. I mean, the fact alone that Fiona had 16-year-old American oak casks that she could then play with, yeah, and then finish in these remarkable casks is amazing.
Jez: just lying around.
Fiona: yeah
David Debattista : But not just that, it's the fact that she has created this as a series.
Fiona: Thank you.
David Debattista : So there's, like she mentioned, one cask finishes, There's another one ready to go afterwards and another one ready to go after that and so forth. This is effectively a 20-year-old whiskey that is part of our core range.
David Debattista : So I can sell, I can go into a bar and go, hey, you want to buy a 20-year-old Tasmanian whiskey? Here you And then when that runs out in a year, you want another one?
David Debattista : No worries. Here you go I have more casks from this series coming along. She's been able to create a product that's consistent from cask to cask. and something that we can continue to take to market at a very competitive price point.
David Debattista : but no No denying it, it's a luxury product, but this is a whiskey with age out of Australia that's unheard of, that's consistently available and is award-winning.
Jez: And availability is key.
David Debattista : Exactly. And incredibly award-winning. Like these series of casks that Fiona's nurtured and carried through just in the last calendar year, 2024,
Fiona: Okay.
David Debattista : twenty twenty four won Best Small Batch at the World Whiskey Awards for Australia. It won double gold, San Francisco Spirit Awards. It won 93 points out of 100 at the IWSC.
David Debattista : It won gold at the Whiskey Masters over in the yeah UK as well. And then just this one that we're trying right now, which has just only been in market like a month really, that also won Best at the World Whiskey Awards for 2025 too.
David Debattista : So it shows the consistency across these cars that Fiona's nurturing and looking after. bringing to market a world class. These are getting internationally accoladed as being world class.
David Debattista : So this beautiful indulgent liquid that's just world level.
Jez: It's definitely indulgent. i love the nose on this already.
Fiona: So that the next Voyager 22. That's bonkers. yeah But, yeah, this is my favourite one so far.
David Debattista : and what And we maintain this this label
Fiona: The the Voyager 20 is my fave out of these casks.
Jez: Why is it your favourite?
Fiona: I think it's just reached that like peak, pinnacle ah richness that, you know, comes with that magic sort of 20, 21-year-old age statement from us.
Jez: And 54.7
David Debattista : It's just, it's so rich, it's thick, it's viscous, it's got unique flavour, it's got just layers of flavour too.
Jez: as
Fiona: Yeah. Yeah.
Fiona: book yeah
Jez: well is
Fiona: It's got the influence of that French oak, but, it just again, it just has that structure and, ah you know, the richness from that ah sort of interesting history of that cask too.
David Debattista : and
Jez: and fifty four point seven as well is huge For a 20-year-old, like...
Fiona: Well, Is it though? So Hellier's Road is really, Hellier's Road is interesting.
David Debattista : Not for us.
Fiona: Tasmania and Australia has got its own sort of distinct ah maturation environments and we really have a ah real idiosyncrasy here on the coast in that our entry proof going into the barrel is quite often our exit proof.
Jez: Mm-hmm.
Fiona: It doesn't change.
Jez: Oh.
Fiona: So our relative rates of evaporation of alcohol and water must be the same.
Jez: Okay.
Fiona: So they're evaporating at the same rate. and We still years lose our 3% per annum to the angels.
Jez: Yep.
Jez: I was going to ask.
Fiona: Yeah.
Jez: Yep.
Fiona: So 3% in the bond store on site, that's the concrete bunker, and 3% off-site in the the off-site bond stores that are, you know, the good old tin shed down by the the ocean.
Jez: Mm-hmm.
Fiona: So... um so Yeah, really, really interesting quirk of the environment that we have here on the northwest coast. Like it's really temperate up here. We don't get those wild swings in temperature that they get down south.
Fiona: So down south, you know, they'll be – last time I drove back from Hobart, it was minus three driving through the the Midlands and foggy in my car, fully iced up and it was just bonkers.
Jez: Oh.
Fiona: But up here, you know, it's middle of winter, doesn't get much below – 10 degrees, you know, with highs of 13. thirteen
Fiona: And in summer, again, like it's it's really temperate.
Jez: It's insane. Insane.
Fiona: Like we get, you know, low 20s is our average summertime temperature here during the day. So it's really temperate and mild but relatively high humidity, I suppose, as well.
David Debattista : Mm-hmm.
Fiona: um so yeah, interesting weather. So, yeah, we put in we put into those casks at
Jez: Very interesting.
Fiona: close to 70%. So that's not true cask strength, what you're drinking there. So we had to bring that down because 70% alcohol in a bottle is plainly dangerous. um
Jez: ah Yeah, that's ludicrous.
Fiona: Yeah, it was high 60%. 68%, I ah believe, from memory was the what they put into that finishing cask. And, yeah, it brought it down to a much more sensible ABV slowly in cask prior to bottling.
Fiona: So, yeah.
Jez: Oh, awesome. It's exciting to watch it happen in cask as well because you see a different level of viscosity.
Fiona: Yeah, we try and do that. Yeah. We try and do that as much as we can now.
David Debattista : Mm-hmm.
Fiona: um For those, you know, beautiful old rare whiskeys, we bring them down in cask over a couple of months before we even think about pulling it out for bottling.
Fiona: um And, you know, our ah protocols around vetting and marrying and um water additions um have been much improved over the last few years ah to sort of make sure that we give that whiskey its due respect and treat it right just before bottling, you know.
Fiona: No point doing all this wonderful stuff and then smacking in some water just before bottling. So, yeah.
Jez: Just get some Mount Franklin and tip it in.
Fiona: Yeah.
Jez: It's not ah really ideal.
Fiona: So, yeah. yeah so No, yeah.
Jez: Well, you guys touched on how well you guys have played on the international stage.
Fiona: i
Jez: um One of my favorite pieces of news was you guys were part of the Rare Hair project that um essentially Playboy Spirits was working on.
David Debattista : Thank you.
Jez: How did you find yourself involved in that?
Fiona: So that was pretty crazy. and They reached out to us. They particularly wanted to do um an Australian single malt or a Tasmanian one with age and they must have got wind that we had the volume that they needed, you know,
Fiona: ah We have and still have 90% of Australia's seriously aged single malt whiskey aged 18 years and over. And you'll hear us say that over and over again because it's 100% the truth.
Jez: Yeah.
Fiona: We still have hundreds of barrels in that age group um in our bond stores. um and And, yeah, and they needed serious volume and they wanted something aged over 20 years.
Jez: diebolical.
Fiona: So we were able to offer them, um You know, that was a second fill port secondary maturation that had been in there for four or so years.
Fiona: Oh, yeah, about four years. um seconds But in second fills.
Jez: Yeah.
Fiona: So, you know, it just picked up just enough richness and and beautiful colour.
Jez: Yeah.
Fiona: 20 years old and we were able to – weirdly it seemed so wrong at the time that those together and send them across the seas in ibc's baby uh for them to do an independent bottling on the other side of the world it just seemed like oh my god i'm sending 20 year old whiskey in a plastic ibc to america but
Jez: yeah
Fiona: Hey, it got there okay. And um how exciting to see their absolutely gorgeous bottling. um I love those rare hair bottles. They're just so luxe.
Fiona: So very, very exciting moment for us.
Jez: It screams bougie.
Fiona: Screams it.
David Debattista : Yeah,
Fiona: Yeah. So it was really, really exciting for us to see that on the world stage. And it's a beautiful whiskey too.
Jez: did you go see Did you guys see an uptick in, say, international volume? Because you guys had recently just launched in the, ah say, travel retail space.
Jez: Because I know Dave was up in Sydney just pushing that aspect of it.
Fiona: Bye.
David Debattista : they're sort of, they're sort of two very different channels for us. Like, long before Fiona and I worked for Hellia's, you know, along with that mindset when they were first building about wanting to create enough liquid to sell to the world, that sort of ran hand in hand with their business mindset of approaching that international market a fair while ago.
David Debattista : So, you know, back in the early sort of 2010s period, um up to I think around 2012, 2013, I think, Fee, was when everything sort of fired off with La Maison de Whiskey over in France.
Jez: yeah
Fiona: Yep.
David Debattista : And that, market wanted something from Tasmania. And at the time, the only distillery that could facilitate that was Hellier's Road because of that mindset of building enough for the world going big on that initial setup.
David Debattista : So that partnership with La Maison really catapulted the Hellier's brand into the European sphere. And that really is what sort of carried that brand into markets that even to this day,
David Debattista : We learn about, you know, some random dude in a bar in the Netherlands tags in Hellia's Road because he's having one at the bar. And we're like, what bar is this? Where the hell is this?
Jez: know it
David Debattista : The hell's going on?
Fiona: um
David Debattista : You know, and you you follow the...
Jez: We dragged a bottle back there, yeah.
Fiona: Someone was drinking it in Ireland recently too, someone in a bar in Ireland drinking it.
David Debattista : Yeah.
Fiona: um Actually, I think it was my plumber.
David Debattista : Yeah, like...
Fiona: He's Irish.
David Debattista : ah
Jez: i love it.
Fiona: But, yeah, so, but, you know, there's no denying that in the last couple of years we've had some, you know, worldwide economic challenges.
David Debattista : But all...
Fiona: So ah I think...
David Debattista : Hmm. Hmm.
Fiona: You know, we we have done significant export orders through Maison in the last couple of years, um but it's a challenge. You know, you've got to get out there and and put in the groundwork.
Fiona: So ah last year I was fortunate not enough myself and my boss, Derek, we were lucky enough to actually go over to Paris and Warsaw and have stand and attend Whiskey Live, Paris and Warsaw to just try and strengthen those brands, i was sorry, i strengthen those relationships with La Maison de Whiskey and um get some boots on the ground over there to do some groundwork to expand that.
Jez: It's exciting.
Fiona: export opportunity internally to market.
David Debattista : You were pouring over there, Fiona, that the 21-year-old collection foundations bottling that we did for La Maison de Whisky as well, which is another example of just like what we did for Rare Hair.
David Debattista : You know, their markets are demanding liquid with age. And like Fiona says, we have those casks with age, and that's why we can satiate that demand. We can bring them that liquid that the world wants.
David Debattista : And we are all for.
Fiona: yeah
David Debattista : In Australia, you can get great whiskeys that don't have any age, but on the world sphere right now, people still want age.
Fiona: sorry.
David Debattista : You know, it's what they take as comfort. It's what they take as knowing. And the fact that we can supply that does give us that edge that we're quite lucky have at our disposal.
Jez: Yeah. Are you seeing that translate to the Australian punters or are they still like...
David Debattista : No, that's a ah slowly but surely... educational piece. That's why we partner with Whiskey Live on the show circuit and we do um yeah exhibit those older whiskies at those shows to really educate people.
Fiona: Thank you.
David Debattista : yeah That's my job. I do every every whiskey show that we go around in. And you know to our CEO Derek's assistance, pour out those old whiskies. We want people to know that those whiskies are there and that we do them and that they are great. Like our 21-year-old Peter Karsel,
David Debattista : ah twenty one year old peter carson this year won best whiskey in Australia at the World Whiskey Awards. You know, and that is an old whiskey that's fantastic and sensational um and is available.
David Debattista : People can buy. You know, it's a product that's there to market.
Fiona: Thank you.
David Debattista : And it's not a fluke. It's the fourth time in the last seven years Hellier's Road has won best whiskey at the World Whiskey Awards. So for Australia.
Jez: It's very interesting fluke.
David Debattista : So, you know, we're we're we're pretty lucky that we have those liquids there and I mean, heck, today we launched our 22-year-old single-cast release. We were just chatting with the marketing manager just before we did this, and she's like, yeah, the guys are receiving orders. We're processing them up. There is a demand there for those.
David Debattista : So we're lucky and we're building the brand and we're building the awareness that that is there for people to drink and enjoy.
Fiona: Thank you.
David Debattista : So, yeah, older liquid is starting to get good traction locally as well as internationally for us now.
Jez: but Whilst we're tracking on older liquid, I might crack this gorgeous looking 21, which is incredible that it's 21 years fully matured in a bourbon barrel.
Jez: Like, incredible. um What...
David Debattista : I'm not sure which one they put in for you, to be honest. does it Can you read the little cask number or anything at the bottom?
Jez: I got the cast number here. It's going to be 22... that 83.01? Yeah, eyes aren't... Oh, stop it. point zero one
Fiona: Oh, yeah.
David Debattista : Yep, yeah, cask 2283.
Fiona: Yeah.
David Debattista : Very good. ah Fiona will be able to tell you the nerdy stuff about that one.
Jez: yeah my eyes aren
Jez: ah stop it
Fiona: So just a bit about the um ah nomenclature of our um cast numbers, I suppose. So when you've got the 2283, so that's filled in 2002,
Jez: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Fiona: on the 283rd day of the year, so we use a Julian date system, and it was the first cask that was filled that day, and we probably would have filled, you know, 14 or 15 from that run.
Fiona: um And X-Jack Daniels casks, so most of the casks in in our older stock are X-Jacks. ah There's a few wild turkeys and ah other bits and bobs in there, but by and large they're X-Jack Daniels.
Fiona: um Now that particular...
Jez: Is that purely just supply basis or like whatever the...
Fiona: Yeah, I think so. i think I think the whoever the cast broker was that they were dealing with at that time, I think it was, yeah, yeah.
Jez: time, yeah.
Jez: 22... Oh, 21 years ago. Like entirely different world.
Fiona: That's it. Yeah, 100%. Yeah. It's all like faxes and no such thing.
David Debattista : but
Jez: Yeah, that's... Faxes. We're talking telegrams 22 years ago, 21 years ago.
Fiona: Yeah. don't know.
Jez: It's mental.
Fiona: Yeah. Crazy. Yeah.
Jez: mentor
Fiona: Yeah.
David Debattista : I think for a bourbon fan like yourself, it's um it's great to get one that's been aged for its full life in a jack cask for you.
Jez: Oh yeah, it's like just up there is my entire Jack selection.
Fiona: Oh, nice.
Jez: It's um... Yeah, big Jack fan, so it's going to be exciting to look into this.
Fiona: So you you'll get, you know, all those lovely honeyed notes um from the the bourbon cast.
Jez: Hmm.
Fiona: But also and for me, that that note of Leatherwood honey is one of the quintessential Hellier's Road tasting notes for our extra-matured whiskeys.
Fiona: i don't know if you picked it up in, or maybe not in Voyager. So we get um that beautiful, sometimes it's meadow honey, sometimes it leans towards more the the leatherwood, but it's definitely that always got that honey note.
Fiona: One of the ones I just did, that's exactly what was about to say.
Jez: It's like Honey Nut Cheerios.
David Debattista : you
Fiona: So one of the tasty notes I just did for Tasman cast too was, oh, my God, this tastes like, oh, smells like honey nut, um you know, the crunch, that sugary-ass cereal that you had when you were, like, 10 years old.
Jez: Yep. Yep. That could just be my glass like carrying multiple whiskeys. I tried to rinse it as best I could.
Fiona: Yeah. Oh, it's definitely a thing, though.
Jez: But yeah, it's like honey nut Cheerios on there.
Fiona: um And I love that tasting note.
Jez: Yeah.
Fiona: But also, um you know, there's carcinobons that get a really uber tropical note as well, so peaches, nectarines, a whole lot of stone fruit, melons, and, um you know, a really –
Jez: Like stone fruit, yeah.
Fiona: A common tasting note in those older casts is grilled pineapple, random, like, you know, caramelised grilled pineapple.
Jez: I get that. yeah. yeah
David Debattista : That 16-year-old we did had that for days. That was just all pineapple, yellow fruits for days, the 16-year single cast.
Fiona: Yeah.
David Debattista : That was incredible.
Fiona: Oh, nice.
Jez: Have you guys nailed what is causing that tasting note? Is it like purely just a cask or the location in the warehouse or?
Fiona: ah So it's definitely, look, as I said, though those...
David Debattista : you.
Fiona: casts that I talked about earlier that sat side by side, one of them was super stone fruits and peachy and cray-cray on the tropical and the other one didn't have any of it.
Jez: Yeah.
Fiona: So what do you say? Like I think it has to be, um you know, all those reactions between our spirit which has, you know, all those –
Jez: Purely cask.
Fiona: amazing array of chemicals and compounds in there with that particular cask. So the extractives, again, all those chemicals, that's exactly what it is. and And then they decide to react one way or another over that period of time, which, you know, the reactions form and they can break apart.
Fiona: Again, those compounds can disassociate and come apart. um So maturation science is a whole, whole another thing. And it's so, so interesting. um yeah no it it's not It's not human and bacteria and like gross stuff.
David Debattista : ah
Jez: not bioscience. That's...
Jez: <unk>s ah ah It's definitely bacteria, it's just a different kind.
Fiona: but Yeah, you know, it's very different.
Jez: Whiskey fungus, it's fine.
Fiona: for cool ah Bordonia, absolutely.
Jez: Mmm.
David Debattista : I think that maturation piece that you're talking about, Fee, is ah something that will definitely come to the fore in Australian whiskey. soon as distilleries start to get to the point where they start to regularly start to have to look at things like secondary cask use.
Fiona: Yeah.
David Debattista : um You know, we were speaking about this a little while ago, Fiona and I just put together a whiskey for our business partner, the Tasman, a beautiful hotel down in Hobart.
Jez: Beautiful.
David Debattista : And the whiskey that Fiona picked for their second release, so um it's a second filled bourbon barrel.
Jez: beautiful
David Debattista : Yeah. And for Australia, everyone's like, first fill Fortified wine, flavor, flavor, flavor, so much so you can't even chase the whiskey. You know, this whiskey that Fiona chose defied all expectations.
Fiona: yeah
David Debattista : You we put down cask samples to these people of pork casks, sherry casks, you exotic wine casks.
Fiona: Okay.
David Debattista : And then in the middle, we had this second filled bourbon cask. it was almost like it was making up the numbers to fill in that, that you know, the the tasting panel. And then tasting it with their wine and chef team,
David Debattista : They all love the nuance and subtlety and softness of the second fill bourbon barrel. And Fiona was like, perfect. That's fantastic. That's what I want because we've got that new make showing through, but it's showing how beautiful the cask was.
Fiona: ah
David Debattista : It's bringing in a beautiful flavor. And it's almost like the term second fill is a dirty word when it shouldn't be. It should be all about how well is this this liquid put together that it's a second fill showing all these things.
Fiona: Yeah. No, shouldn't say, yeah.
David Debattista : like This is literally it right here. Yeah, I know I've got it here.
Jez: It's so light, like for, cause people get really concerned.
David Debattista : Exactly.
Jez: They start looking at whiskey and they're like, all right, well, it's got an age statement on it. And then they're like, well, it's a bourbon cast, but it's second fill.
David Debattista : if
Jez: You get all the color from your like new chart, American oak. So the fact that you're rolling through like first, second fill it's yeah.
David Debattista : Yeah. And look, this is age for 10 years, you know, and this, this liquid is, is beautiful in an old fashioned.
Jez: Yeah.
Fiona: It's
David Debattista : it's It's lovely. It's nuanced. It's fantastic.
Fiona: it's so delicate, that particular cask. um I really rate that cask. It's, yeah, super delicate and floral.
David Debattista : So, you know, and we can only hope that as, you know, whiskeys are coming along and distilleries are getting older and they're starting to think, well, doesn't have to be a first fill cask every time.
David Debattista : doesn't have to be a richly fortified cask every time. Let's get a bit of dynamicness. And I mean, 90 something percent of all the barrels in the Hellia's warehouse, correct me if I'm wrong, they've built off bourbon casks.
Fiona: Yeah. Yep. yeah
David Debattista : Yeah, that's, that's,
Jez: Is that purely based on supply or is that just like palette defined?
Fiona: Definitely supply thing. um Obviously the price point of a bourbon is a lot lower than ah a fancy cask from Europe. um We did get, you know, a couple of containers of uber fancy stuff from out of Europe last year with all sorts of different wonderful varieties in there.
Fiona: ah But, yeah, the bread and butter has to be that bourbon cask. Because it's got the right profile for us.
David Debattista : Mm-hmm.
Fiona: Like it works with our spirit really well. um As I said, like those uber aged ones, they're just so gorgeous. ah you You wouldn't want to put them in anything else. Like they just work so well.
Fiona: um So, yeah, we're very happy with using primarily the bourbon cask to make up that, you know, that vast proportion. And then when they're ready and they've got that lovely vanillins and delicate profile, then we can transfer them into a finishing cask or, you know, ah secondary maturation in a different cask. Why not?
Fiona: um Because we're going to sit on it for at least 10 years. yeah. so Yeah, it's cool to be able to play, but, it you know, give it that first few years in a bourbon cask and see where we go from there.
Jez: That's amazing. All right. I might...
David Debattista : How was that 21 for you? What did you think?
Jez: That 21, do you know what? I want to say like purely subjective subjectively, I think the 20 took it for me.
David Debattista : Hmm.
Fiona: The Voyager, yeah.
Jez: The Voyager. I'm like, once again, it's like that sweetness playing off the back of that.
Fiona: yeah
Jez: But I guess the... I'd say the structure of that French oak... I had that right. Yeah. French oak.
Fiona: yeah
Jez: Um, and then just additional sweetness compared to like, once again, that maltiness coming off the back of the, X jack task. And then, uh,
Jez: I'm trying to work out how to accurately describe this.
David Debattista : and I can almost see your bourbon cask palette note coming through now.
Jez: Yeah. Yeah. Um,
Jez: I'd say it's like for your 21, it was more one dimensional as opposed to like introducing different cast types. And there's like multiple layers of things going on.
David Debattista : and
Jez: And then you sit there and that whiskey takes you on a journey as opposed to sitting there and it's like single cask for 21 years. And it's like, that's the experience as opposed to a journey, which is like a whole nother layer, if that makes sense.
Fiona: Yeah.
Jez: And once again, it's like different whiskeys for different moments in time.
Fiona: Absolutely. Yeah.
Jez: So it's like, yes, enjoyable experience, but it's like great whiskey. It's like that bourbon cast is just escalating, but it's like, I like, for me, it's more structure.
Fiona: Yeah.
David Debattista : ah It really shows that even though there's only one year difference between those two whiskeys, one's a finished cask, one's a single cask, the flavors are
Fiona: yeah
Jez: was worlds apart.
David Debattista : completely different directions. It's it's a world apart, 100%. hundred percent
Fiona: me
Jez: Which will be interesting to dive into this ah seven year really quickly. And then I got to let you guys go because I've taken up enough of your time tonight.
Jez: know you guys have families in that to get back to.
David Debattista : Well, yeah, please um please crack this, Peter, because this this is Fiona's invention.
Jez: yeah
David Debattista : This is.
Jez: Oh my God. i So I'm probably the worst person to try Peter whiskey, but I'm all about it. Let's go.
David Debattista : Well, that's what exactly this product is made for.
Jez: Okay, I got you.
David Debattista : yeah um i mean, Hellia's have had, and Fiona will be able to give you all the tech details, but a long history of making peated whiskey.
Jez: Hmm.
David Debattista : You know, they've been getting their peat from Scotland for over 20 years. Yeah, the peated malt, sorry, for over 20 years.
Fiona: 21 years now.
Jez: Hmm.
David Debattista : There's a long history of doing that. um
Fiona: So our pedicast
David Debattista : And part of it is to do with the volume, I would say, yeah?
Fiona: ah ah of mould.
David Debattista : Yeah, the amount of malt that we use, that peated malt, is in excess of anything anyone could ever supply in Australia. so That's why we go to Scotland.
Fiona: um I mean, we've just secured 27 ton of peated malt for this year's peated campaign, so it's super exciting.
Jez: oh
Fiona: I love the peated run is my favourite time.
Jez: That's...
David Debattista : thank Thank God.
Jez: um' I'm glad you're able to secure that much, but I don't know why people want it.
Fiona: Favourite time in the district.
Jez: I... ah
Fiona: Oh, no.
Jez: Why do you want to try to do it? i'm not I'm not sold on the dream, let me tell you.
Fiona: Okay.
David Debattista : Well, I think that's, you're the perfect test case.
Jez: I am...
Fiona: It's like, look,
David Debattista : You're the perfect test case for this product.
Fiona: Yeah, I mean, peat is like, it's like oysters.
Jez: I'm not the perfect test case.
Fiona: It's like olives. It's like things like anchovies.
Jez: Yeah. Yeah.
Fiona: They're the the challenging foods that you you get introduced to.
Jez: It's all the things my girlfriend loves.
Fiona: Yeah, you get introduced to them growing up and you're like, oh, my God, I love these. And then you end up going, oh, I'll try another olive.
Jez: Why?
Fiona: And I remember this journey as a kid with olives. And, you know, before you know it, you're madly in love with them. So we've coined this pated whiskey Gateway Pete.
Fiona: It's like the pot of whiskeys.
Jez: Okay.
Fiona: So be careful what might happen.
Jez: It sounds like a fun uncle at a birthday party.
Fiona: That's it.
Jez: Gateway Pete.
Fiona: Gateway Pete.
Jez: Okay, I'm all about it.
Fiona: yeah
Jez: I'm all about it. 46.2% as well.
Fiona: Yeah, so it's... Yep.
Jez: sorry
David Debattista : Mm-hmm.
Fiona: Yeah, so it's – oh, sorry.
Jez: non-flockcking action
Fiona: Yeah, matured in ex-bourbon cask. these ones will be Heaven Hill. um And it's beautiful, soft, classic bourbon cask profile ah with those lovely vanillons and sweetness, and it's really mellow. Yeah.
Fiona: And just that layering of a gentle peat smoke. It's not a big lager or an octamo or anything crazy. As I said, it's it's designed um to introduce people to peat whiskey, whereas they might have experienced it in a very, very different way through yeah, whiskeys that aren't great, blended whiskeys and such.
Fiona: So this is, um in my mind, it's one of my favourite whiskeys in our core range and I always have a bottle in the house. Sadly I don't have with any with me right now.
Fiona: um
Jez: I am... Yeah, sorry, you've been sipping on water this entire time we've been drinking whiskey, so...
Fiona: That's okay. Yeah. lips All good. um So, yeah, I...
David Debattista : i I do this a lot at whiskey shows, and I tell people this is two-stager. Fruity nose, peaty palate.
Jez: Yeah, I was going to say it's taken a...
David Debattista : You don't have to be afraid to smell it.
Jez: It's taken a second for that smoke to kind of kick in there because I was nosing it.
Fiona: Yeah.
Jez: I'm like, no, all I'm getting is sweet Heaven Hill cask. I'm like, there's nothing smoky about it.
Fiona: Yeah.
David Debattista : Yep.
Jez: And you just kept talking. And I'm like, no, no smoke, no smoke. And then it just like popped. And I'm like, oh, okay.
Fiona: Yeah, you just got to give it a little bit of time and in the glass.
Jez: And it's definitely opened up. Yeah.
Jez: and But it's like subtle. It's not in your face.
Fiona: Yeah, it's not in your face.
Jez: It's not. Blow out power. Okay. so like Sneaky Pete might be coming around on me.
Fiona: Yes.
Jez: So, fun Uncle Pete.
David Debattista : and And this is this is by design too.
Jez: all Alright.
David Debattista : Like we have other peated whiskies in our portfolio that we sell that are big, that are bold, that are over the top.
Jez: Yeah.
David Debattista : We did a richly peated 15-year-old release it was that was like licking an ashtray. That was big, bold, and over the top, like a peat, like Lagavulin style peat.
Jez: Ugh.
David Debattista : But Fiona exercised really great restraint putting this together, creating that perfect balance between that fruity nose and peaty palate where we can literally be at a whiskey show and say to people like, oh, you don't like peat?
David Debattista : Well, let me just give you a tiny and test. Don't worry. I won't hurt you. Just give it a little tire and they'll try it. they'll be you know what? I don't mind that. And that for us is a win because that was so adverse that they didn't even want to try.
Fiona: Yeah.
David Debattista : Yeah. And now they're open to it. They're open to the category again.
Jez: There it is. Okay.
Jez: Once again, as you said, two-parter?
David Debattista : So, no, great approach up.
Jez: Yeah, it's it's definitely like, it's soft, it's sweat on the pallet, but then it's just like this coating of smoke. And it's not like blow your head off, it's just like a coating, like a wouldn't say a forest fire, but it's like a smouldering campfire that's just been extinguished and it's like
Fiona: yeah
David Debattista : It
Jez: Layer.
Fiona: Yeah.
Jez: Makes me ill describing that.
Fiona: And?
Jez: That's not how I describe things, but I'm like, tastes like dandelions is like the exact same scale I'd use.
David Debattista : makes a ah
David Debattista : it makes a bangin s smokeky whiskeky sour
Jez: Okay.
David Debattista : because the smoke's not overwhelming. It's an element there, but still the classic of a whiskey sour is there. But this is this underlier of smoke.
Jez: but Yeah. Okay.
David Debattista : It's really good.
Jez: can
Fiona: o
Jez: This is one I'd use for a whiskey sour, actually, because once again, it's just that lemon. So you get that lemon tartness come through and then like that smoke could cut it right in half.
Fiona: Okay.
Jez: Okay. All right. I found a home for it.
Jez: Oh, amazing.
David Debattista : And we'll um what I'm going to do is, too, I'm going to send you ah sample because we didn't put it in this pack but I'm going send you a sample of my personal favourite Hell Ears which we don't really talk about too much because it's not done a lot but it's our 12 year old American oak which is you when we do sort of like a batch of it when Fiona vats together her best 12 year old American oaks I call it summertime whiskey it's light it's floral it's bright it's sunny it's beautiful it's a fantastic whiskey and
Jez: Hmm.
Jez: Okay.
Jez: Yeah, beautiful.
David Debattista : We don't talk about a lot because we don't have a lot of it. So we pretty much only really sell it into bars. People that want this this good 12 year old American oak.
Jez: It's mental you say that though, because like you have essentially shit loads of 20 year old.
David Debattista : But we
Jez: You're like, yeah, we've got 20 year old for days, but 12 year old, like, nah, we're fresh out. Got none.
David Debattista : but it's it's that that section in the middle yeah that Fiona was talking about where we had we load it low runs in that time.
Jez: No 12 year old, but 20. Yeah. Yeah, that's right.
Fiona: Yeah, yeah.
Jez: Yeah.
David Debattista : You know, we have to covet these little you know, 12 to 15 year old cast more than we do a 20 year old cast because we don't have as many.
Fiona: Pockets. Yeah.
Fiona: They're basically banned from us using that that that age through that, you know, period of time. Like, no, you're not allowed to touch those.
Jez: Yeah.
Fiona: They are blacklisted, as our boss says. Yeah.
Jez: It's crazy.
David Debattista : Unless you're a really, really good customer, unless you're someone that we need something for, like the Tasman or or maybe Heinemann.
Jez: Like, yeah, okay.
Fiona: But it has them.
Jez: I got you.
Fiona: Yep.
David Debattista : Yeah, someone along those lines.
Jez: Yeah, I got you.
Fiona: Yep.
Jez: I got you. Okay.
David Debattista : yeah
Jez: might It sounds like there might be a cast coming to Heinemann then.
David Debattista : You may be very correct.
Jez: little single barrel pick.
David Debattista : Yes, yes.
Jez: Yeah, I got you.
Fiona: Yep.
Jez: I got you. I'm picking up what you're putting down. I love it.
David Debattista : But no, I love that you love the the American oak cask part because I'm a bourbon cask fan.
Jez: up
David Debattista : That's what tell everyone at the distillery. That's where I live and what I love in my cask flavours. So people that love bourbons, as I obviously do as well, um and then, yeah, bourbon cask whiskeys is my jam.
Jez: No,
Jez: and I can appreciate that
Fiona: I'm so curious. How are you going with that, Pete? How are you going with that?
Jez: As I said, like it's just on the nose, it's like so sweet and it's that that classic honey note that you're getting and then it's like slowly evolved to this like a light smoke and it's like it's not aggressive, it's not... and My only problem with Pete is it's not something you go like a second glass for.
Fiona: No, absolutely. and
Jez: so I'm like, you'd finish a night on it?
David Debattista : A
Fiona: But this, yeah, this whiskey, though, I think is one. And that's what i sort of describe to people. Like sometimes you have a big peat of whiskey. You can only ever have one, maybe two.
Fiona: But this one, you know, you could give this, ah you know, a bit of a a session.
Jez: Yeah.
David Debattista : ah good notch.
Fiona: It's a sessionable peat whiskey if you did want to go that way.
Jez: i I'd probably start my night with this in the whiskey sour cocktail, which is like an interesting way to kind of start it and it'll catch people off guard if you were going to serve it and you're like, all right, well, let's start with something fun, start with something wild and they'll expect x but you're like, no, we're going to go throw you in the peat and they're like, huh?
Fiona: Beauty. Awesome.
Fiona: yeah
Jez: And like, oh, okay, I see what you were doing here. And then they're like, actually, it's in enjoyable.
Fiona: Or do what we do and put it over some oysters and have the it sort of as an oyster shooter with the pated whiskey.
Jez: Yeah, i'm to I might have to do it for the missus because, ah yeah, theres you're not selling me on oysters. I can't do it. I don't want to swallow it. She's like, no, you just swallow it I'm like, I don't want to do it. I don't want to chew it. i don't It's like swallowing snot.
Jez: I'm like, I do that on my own time.
Fiona: yeah
Jez: I don't want to do it with oysters. mean,
Fiona: ah
David Debattista : Well, we are very biased down here when we were launching this whiskey even.
Jez: Amazing.
David Debattista : We launched it my father-in-law as an oyster farmer. So we were literally out on his oyster boats at dawn, you know, at harvest time, pulling in thousands of baskets worth of oysters, just cracking the oysters out, pitted whiskey over the top, shooting it with the boys, standing in waiters in the water in the middle of the bay at dawn, on pounding oysters and whiskey, and there is nothing better, nothing better.
Jez: amazing
Fiona: but Yeah, that is so
Jez: That is mental. Not only am I not good at fishing or catching oysters at that rate, but here, Peter Whiskey, I'm like, I'll just stand on the shore and cheer you on or something.
Jez: That is, and like, get it, girl.
Fiona: cool. but
Jez: That is not my life. But I'm all about it.
David Debattista : It's pretty bloody special. Once you've had an oyster from the water it's grown in, you'll never have an oyster from a supermarket again.
Jez: Yeah.
Fiona: Yeah, right.
Jez: Okay. Okay. Yeah, they they talk about these Sydney Rock oysters and I'm like, it is...
David Debattista : Yeah, they're ah they're rubbish.
Jez: Yeah, I'm not...
David Debattista : Rubbish, Sydney Rock. man Tasmanian, that's where it is.
Jez: I'm not a fan. That's like $40 a...
David Debattista : north Northwest Tasmanian oysters, that's what you want.
Jez: Yeah, okay, okay. All right, if I make way down to Tasmania, then I've got to have one then. It's like, it sounds like it's tradition.
David Debattista : You make your way down to Tasmania, you come down, we'll literally take you to the distillery and then we'll take you out on the oyster boats.
Fiona: Thank you.
Jez: All right, we're going to have a bit of whiskey with it then too.
David Debattista : I literally did that.
Fiona: ah
David Debattista : ah I did it. I did it a couple of months ago with Ross from Belveni.
Jez: I
David Debattista : He wanted to do it.
Jez: and
David Debattista : We came down, toured the distillery out on the boats, oysters straight out of the water. It was great. We're chasing the gummy sharks around in the ankle deep water.
Jez: ah love it. I love it. ah Guys, I will begin to let you go. i've got a couple of quickfire questions for you, though, before I wrap up. I know you guys have left me with the...
Fiona: Sure. Yep.
David Debattista : Do it.
Jez: ah This whiskey cream, um which is absolutely incredible, by the way. Your Hellier's Road Cream Liqueur. It is when I was working the whiskey show last year, that was the standout of the show.
Jez: Every time you guys were there, it was flying off the shelves. I remember unpacking cases of it and we were shipping it around Australia because it was like in demand.
Fiona: yeah
Jez: i remember unloading more cases than what I was putting back on the the truck for the next show. So you guys killed it.
Fiona: but
Jez: i If I can recommend someone buy something, I'm like, it is that. Absolutely. um Do you have a quick second to talk about it and how that concept came about?
David Debattista : that That stuff flies out.
Fiona: and Well, I was actually really surprised to see how long we've been making it. So I think they've been making it since like 2006. Crazy.
Fiona: I didn't realise that Helios had been making it.
Jez: Aging in milk fats.
David Debattista : Mm.
Fiona: Sorry? Sorry?
Jez: Aging it in milk fats or...
Fiona: No, like just,
David Debattista : Thank you.
Fiona: ah
Jez: It's a gag.
Fiona: so, yeah sorry.
Jez: It's fine. you Like, really?
Fiona: We do, no, I'm like, what?
Jez: Yeah,
Fiona: Because my vatting tanks, like my whiskey vatting tanks are old milk vats. So, you know, we do, we have some repurposed stuff hanging around.
Jez: no, it's a...
Fiona: um Yeah, so made with fresh cream. Obviously we had that longstanding relationship with better milk next door. So the boys had, pop across with their trolley and pick up the fresh cream and toddle back across and ah make this ah beautiful cream liqueur.
Fiona: So the the secret really is that it does have that fresh Tasmanian cream and our single malt whiskey in it and it is luscious.
David Debattista : Okay.
Fiona: um If you've ever had you know, that very, very popular brand of cream liqueur that I probably shouldn't say the name of and have it side by side with our whiskey cream, you will never go back to Bailey's ever.
Fiona: um So we did win the world's best cream liqueur last year in 2024 World Drinks Awards.
Jez: Yep, absolutely.
Fiona: ah So that was a huge sort of get for our distillery and and um what a credit to the you know, whoever developed that recipe way back in the day, we haven't really touched it too much because it's just so good.
Fiona: um Yeah, i do recommend.
Jez: Should you? It's banging.
Fiona: Yeah, exactly. So we've got um our what we call our original flavor, which is kind chocolatey and delicious ah coffee and a new addition, relatively new addition, which is the salted caramel, ah which is insanely indulgent, but um equally, yeah, equally good.
Fiona: um So, yeah.
Jez: I have both of them in my fridge and they go perfect in my morning coffee. If I want booze it up, just like throw 30 mils in like iced coffee and it is the best way to start the morning.
Fiona: good
David Debattista : yeah
Fiona: Awesome.
Fiona: Yeah, amazing.
David Debattista : it's ah It's a it's a beast unto itself. Now, like it sells itself you to the point where sometimes Fiona can't even get the cream.
Jez: Yeah.
David Debattista : That's how much in demand it gets.
Fiona: So, yeah. but That is literally literally my life at the moment is trying to source cream because it's, you know, the cows don't, you know, want to make cream or make lots of milk all the time.
David Debattista : So, yeah, we we go through that battle.
Jez: Knock it on the door.
Jez: oh
Fiona: So at the moment I'm struggling to get cream supply because, ah yeah, the demand is ever-increasing for our cream liqueur, which is a fantastic problem to have.
Jez: No.
Jez: yeah say You need more cows. That's...
Fiona: Yeah. Yeah.
Jez: Yeah, that's...
David Debattista : That's a problem. We don't own the cows.
Fiona: that's it
David Debattista : That's the problem.
Fiona: but
Jez: They need more cows. Okay.
David Debattista : yeah
Fiona: Yeah.
David Debattista : But no, it's a beast unto itself and literally like pretty much sold in every Dan Murphy's across Australia, all good bottle shops, and we sometimes, yeah, we fight to keep up with it.
Jez: Yeah, especially your staff, just taking some home as well, ah like, you know, be mixing it up.
David Debattista : yeah It's crazy.
Jez: I'm all about it.
David Debattista : Christmas gifts every year.
Jez: Yeah.
David Debattista : Cases are bought by each staff member as gifts.
Fiona: Oh, 100%. It's the best if thing thing ever.
David Debattista : Yeah.
Jez: Yeah, I can imagine.
David Debattista : Yeah.
Fiona: Yeah.
Jez: I'm going add it to my Christmas list this year and just start sending it out because, as I said, like, I have two bottles in my fridge at the moment and i just, it's so damn good. You guys are killing it.
Jez: Yeah.
Fiona: Awesome. That's great to hear.
Jez: But I'll run through these quickfire questions. um I'll start off with you, Dave. In a whiskey apocalypse, all the bottles are gone except one. What bottle is it?
David Debattista : um I'd be contractually obliged to say it's a Hellier's Road. i' Better to be the 12-year-old American oak, of course. That is my favourite, as I've touched on before.
Jez: Okay. Okay.
David Debattista : I drink that all day, every day.
Jez: But if you weren't contractually obliged in this perfect world?
David Debattista : um oh I have lots of whiskeys, as you can see.
Jez: ah Yeah. We play by day, not by...
David Debattista : Probably my favourite smasher is probably just Belvedi 12-year. Beautiful whisky.
Jez: Hell yeah. I love it. And what about you, Fiona?
Jez: If you weren't contractually obliged say 22 course.
Fiona: Oh, yeah. um That's a really tricky one because my experience is not the same as Dave's.
Fiona: I haven't had the exposure to the, you know, amazing array of brands and experiences that he has, um sadly.
Jez: course
Fiona: I'm getting there, but it's a slow journey, as I'm sure you can appreciate. You can only taste so much whiskey. ah In northwest Tasmania particularly, like we don't have a lot of access down here.
Jez: Oh, absolutely.
Fiona: um
Jez: No, no.
Fiona: So i don't know I feel like it would have to be petered. um And I do like the – is it bad say the Ligvillen 16?
Fiona: I don't mind that as ah as a petered drop.
Jez: No.
David Debattista : It's a base.
Fiona: Yeah.
David Debattista : It's base.
Fiona: Yeah. And if I was talking about our whiskeys, it has to be our yet unreleased, but it is in bottle and sneaking its way around to various tastings and things.
Jez: ah Okay.
Fiona: It's the whiskey that we've ah nicknamed the Peaches Cask. It's um a single cask from 2004, and it's an absolute banger, and it's full of that stone fruit character, um peaches and nectarines.
David Debattista : Or two, five, three.
Fiona: That's the one. She is an absolute cracker.
Jez: or
David Debattista : Winner, winner, chicken dinner.
Fiona: yeah but Yeah, so exactly.
Jez: Oh, look at him go.
David Debattista : Yeah.
Jez: Here's what I prepared earlier.
David Debattista : It's coming up with me to Sydney.
Fiona: So for Hellies, that's the one.
Jez: Oh, okay.
Fiona: um And, yeah, that's the – yeah, absolutely.
Jez: Let me know when you're in town.
David Debattista : Will do. Friday.
Fiona: Done deal. Yeah.
Jez: I love it. I'm trying to work out what I'm doing on Friday.
Fiona: Awesome. Awesome.
Jez: All right.
David Debattista : it's great day.
Jez: So, okay.
David Debattista : The peaches cast.
Jez: Okay. I'm, I'm hyped. I'm, I'm all about it.
Fiona: ah so
Jez: Uh, so Fiona, what is your most highly rated undervalued whiskey on the market now? Uh, I'd say for hell years road, actually.
Fiona: i hi What was it? Highest rated undervalued.
Jez: Highest rated underrate. Uh, what is it? Highest rated undervalued whiskey.
Fiona: What?
Fiona: Oh, my God.
Jez: within the Helly is Road portfolio.
Fiona: Undervalued. up Look, the Pated 7 is just, a you know, i think that's one that's, yeah, I don't know.
Jez: doesn't have to be.
Jez: Okay.
Fiona: I don't know. That's a hard question to answer. All
Jez: I ruined my game. That's, uh,
Fiona: right. Here, Dave.
Jez: yeah.
Fiona: My main battery is about to die, by the way.
Jez: What about you, Dave?
David Debattista : Uh, to me, my answer to everything is the 12 year American oak. That's my answer to everything.
Fiona: Hi, yeah.
Jez: Amazing. Amazing.
David Debattista : No one knows it exists because we don't do a lot of it and it's a fucking banger.
Jez: Yeah, you've got less than half a bottle there, so it's going to be a sad day when that's gone and you have to flog another one from the distillery.
Fiona: Hi.
Jez: Tough gig.
David Debattista : It's amazing.
Fiona: ah okay
David Debattista : It's amazing. The day that that batch runs out and we don't have a new batch lined up is when I'll cry. Hmm.
Jez: Yes, there's going to be tears that day. ah And my final question to round out the night is, if you could share a dram with any historical figure, who would it be and why? Kick it off, Dave.
David Debattista : Oh, Jesus.
Jez: Anyone in any period of time?
David Debattista : Um, I would probably,
Fiona: Historical figure. Oh my god.
Jez: Yeah.
David Debattista : Enjoy a good rum cask finished with whiskey with Fidel Castro with a very, very good Cuban cigar.
Jez: a
Fiona: Wow.
Jez: That is...
Fiona: that's
Jez: i like how we had that like loaded and ready to go.
Fiona: Yeah.
David Debattista : Just came to me. Just came to me.
Jez: okay.
David Debattista : No, it didn't.
Fiona: its
Jez: Why?
David Debattista : No, it didn't.
Jez: Why Fidel Castro?
David Debattista : I've always i've always wanted to to go to Cuba, and I haven't been able to get to Cuba. I love rum cask finished whiskeys. um And I used to deal a lot with cigars when I worked at the casino and loved the story and the history and everything that went around with it and all the the stories about that Cuban history.
David Debattista : I'd love just everything about that. And I think that environment would create everything I need in
Jez: Amazing. I love it. I, Fiona looks stressed. I'm sorry. look like you don't have an answer yeah because I just dropped it on you.
Fiona: Bye.
Fiona: Well, it's an interesting question and I'm the opposite of anyone who has any interest in history.
Jez: Yeah.
Fiona: i That is just not me. I'm into bugs and things.
Jez: I am
Fiona: So I think it would have to be someone like Mara Kiri or, yeah, oh yeah maybe, um David Attenborough, for example.
Jez: like Charles Darwin.
Fiona: That would be an amazing day, wouldn't it?
Jez: Yeah. I'd just listen to him.
Fiona: So listen to the dulcet tones of David Attenborough.
Jez: i Yeah.
Fiona: But sharing a jam.
Jez: Like, stop at it.
Fiona: I think that's it.
Jez: that's
Fiona: Yeah. yeah
Jez: Yeah.
Fiona: i that it Yeah, while he's still alive, that'd be super cool.
David Debattista : While he's still alive, too.
Jez: Yeah.
David Debattista : Yeah.
Jez: Well, don't think he'd say much when he's dead, so that's, ah guess, it's Wicked at Bernie's style if you're going to team up and have a dream with him, but um yeah, I can like just sit there, picture it and just listen to him talk about bugs.
Fiona: Yeah.
David Debattista : but
Fiona: Yeah.
Jez: We're sitting in like this rainforest and you're like, this is tranquility.
Fiona: yeah
Jez: Well, thank you guys for jumping on. i am sorry. We've gone like double over the amount of time I thought we're going to go for, but um it's been an incredible hang.
David Debattista : Pleasure. No,
Jez: Hopefully you guys have enjoyed listening to this podcast, but ah David, Fiona, anything you want to plug before we get you guys out of here? Any questions?
David Debattista : now just enjoy some some good Australian whiskey, everyone.
Fiona: 22 year old baby yeah and now our fresh drop the 22 year old American oak cask yeah um single cask and we're so proud to launch that um was it yesterday today today yeah amazing yeah
Jez: 22 year.
Jez: Yeah. Yes.
David Debattista : Today, technically, yeah.
Jez: Last night was the media tasting for it.
Fiona: yeah
Jez: I believe I saw on socials.
Fiona: yeah Yes.
David Debattista : Yeah, we've done a few of them.
Jez: Ooh.
Fiona: yeah
David Debattista : There's one right now in Melbourne in Casa Divinos. There was one last night in Sydney.
Jez: Yep.
David Debattista : um And then, yeah, there's a few cheeky tastings. And then for Tasmania, it's Taz Whiskey Week. But in Taz Whiskey Week, people come to the big showcase in our big stand.
Jez: Amazing.
David Debattista : We'll be having it there on Taste for People.
Jez: I love it. um Any events coming up for you guys in any states other than Whiskey Week?
David Debattista : Apart from, well, I mean, we do, we're we're on the Whiskey Live circuit as well, where we offer the masterclass circuit so people can come in and try our 21-year-old Peter, the one best in Australia this year.
David Debattista : and We're doing all those. We're obviously at Whiskey Abbey, of course, which is a great whiskey show. ah Whiskey Whiskey up in Brisbane. um And then we also do, yeah, select product launches as things come to market that we always try to spread the love. And we've got a few more people coming on board with the team soon.
Jez: It's exciting.
David Debattista : including a permanent edition up in um the Brisbane market as well, where everything seems to be happening right now.
Jez: ah I love it. All right. Well, yeah, I'll add all those links down in the show notes anyway. But, yeah, thank you guys for jumping on. And thank you both, Dave and Fiona, for taking the time out of your night because I killed an hour and 42 minutes of your time.
David Debattista : Pleasure.
Jez: So, all
Fiona: That's no problem at all.
David Debattista : No worries. Anytime.
Fiona: Thanks so much.
David Debattista : Thank you, buddy. See you.
Jez: right. Thanks, guys, for listening.
Fiona: Thank you.
Jez: Stay thirsty.
Fiona: See ya. Bye.
David Debattista : Bye.
