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Whipper Snapper - The Spirit of Exploration with Jimmy Mckeown
26 Plays29 days ago
This week on Non Chill Filtered, Jez sat down with Jimmy Mckeown, the founder of Whipper Snapper Distillery, one of the OG pioneers of Corn Based Distillate in Australia. He takes us through the history of Whipper Snapper, early days of crowd funding a seed round at a barbeque to taking home awards on an international stage.
We chat all things distillery, the amazing charity work for veterans that Whipper Snapper host, core and boujee releases plus everything upcoming so it really lifts the lid on what is to come from this small Perth distillery.
Hope you guys enjoy this episode!
Make sure you put the feet up and pour a glass of something tasty.
Links are down below;
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Transcript
Intro
Introduction to Whipsnapper and Guest Jimmy
00:00:18
Jez
Welcome back to another episode of Non-Chill Filtered. We interviewed the movers and the shakers of the booze world. Today's episode features a founder from a very small distillery outside of, I'd say like mainland Australia. It's in Perth. Who's who's heard of Perth? um Now these guys are doing amazing things. Welcome Jimmy from Whipsnapper. Sir, how are you today?
00:00:42
Jimmy
Yeah, excellent. excellent how are you?
00:00:44
Jez
very Good, good. I'm coming out of like, what are we? um I just had my wisdom teeth out. So i am slowly getting back into booze, um which is which is nice. It's a nice way to it.
00:00:59
Jez
ease myself back in but sir as I said thank you for jumping on with us today um so the the people at home ah that are listening to this they can get a good idea of who you are give us
Founding Journey and Learning Whiskey Production
00:01:12
Jez
your comic book 01 origin story how did you find yourself in the predicament of founding a distillery essentially
00:01:22
Jimmy
Well, you know, it's one of those, it was a bit of a dream, I guess. um But like most dreams, they don't come true. Let's just be reasonableably realistic about it. um You know, love whiskey.
00:01:37
Jimmy
my brother-in-law loved whiskey. We got chatting about it. um you know, where I grew up country WA, was surrounded by mates who grew grain, for the commodity markets, wheat, barley, rye, things like that. So the pieces the puzzle started to come together pretty quickly. This was back in 2010, we started chatting about it.
00:02:02
Jimmy
um And, you know, pretty... bit younger back then, a little bit more naive, thought it would be pretty pretty cool lifestyle to start a whiskey distillery.
Establishing an Urban Distillery in Perth
00:02:13
Jimmy
um There wasn't any other whiskey distilleries in Perth at the time as well. um So yeah, myself and Alistair Mallock, we set out to learn how to make whiskey, number one, commercially would be a good start.
00:02:29
Jimmy
So we travelled basically to all those major countries that produce really good whiskey and we kind of, you know, we visited a lot of favourite distilleries that we wanted to kind of maybe replicate some of their styles or trying to create recreate that here in West Australia. So through the US, through Scotland, eventually through Japan as well.
00:02:56
Jimmy
But in the end, you know, we came back and we said, okay, well, how are we actually going to to do this? We didn't have any money. So we, I remember back in the day, we we set out a business plan and we set up in Alistair's actual backyard with a PowerPoint presentation and started
Innovation and Challenges in the Whiskey Market
00:03:17
Jimmy
pitching to her family and friends, hoping someone would believe in us.
00:03:23
Jez
little seed rim for you.
00:03:23
Jimmy
um Pretty much, yeah, it's a bit seed capital just to get the operation up running. um Yeah, so you know, that at that time i was I was a mine surveyor, so I was working away in the mines.
00:03:38
Jez
ah You would have been making bank plenty plenty of money to start a distillery, surely.
00:03:38
Jimmy
I
00:03:42
Jimmy
don't know, definitely not there.
00:03:44
Jez
yeah
00:03:46
Jimmy
I wasn't making much money at all, to be honest. I'm working very hard, though. I definitely wanted to change my career trajectory. get out of mining as well. I do something more creative and very hands-on person, love making things.
00:04:01
Jimmy
So yeah, that's where that kind of started. And we started talking to different people um and build up a bit of I guess, a network of people that were willing to give us a hand and and get us going in various different forms. Whether it was friends who were going to help with electrical work on the venture distillery that we found or know furniture making and Yeah, all those skills that a lot of country country of people have that were kind brought the table.
00:04:31
Jimmy
And we settled in Perth. You know, we've settled in a beautiful 1950s Sawtooth warehouse in East Perth. Not many of them left. We were hunting around here. Originally, we were looking a setting up the distillery down south in the Lageroo River region, down the south coast in Denmark, in Swamp Valley, you know, where a lot of those producing regions like wine regions, are breweries.
00:04:58
Jimmy
And then we fell in love with this spot in in the city. So it become it became one of the first urban distilleries in WA. It was the first urban distilleries in WA.
00:05:11
Jimmy
It kind of sung to our audience and our demographic and our our market as well. we We just loved it. So we set up the distilleries there. um commit some people to give us some money and and got it going.
00:05:26
Jimmy
In the meantime, you know, I had ah had a mentor and in in the US who taught me some of the basics and the left the rest of it was kind of up to me to kind of figure it out, which I, yeah, exactly.
00:05:39
Jez
The nevatorian.
00:05:41
Jimmy
and that's what I thrive on really, excited just making it making it work and fixing things and making things. So we built the business back here in 2013. and been operating ever since.
00:05:53
Jez
So what did the whiskey market look like in 2013, 2014 when Whippersnapp was trying to get off the ground? like You look at Australia now and we're like the top three for, say, bourbon consumption.
00:06:08
Jez
ah So creating a corn whiskey at that period of time would have been... a I'd say an incredible feat just trying to go, well, look, the Australian markets love their sweet products ah using corn as a a dominant grain, trying get it out there into the market. um Yeah, what did what did it look like?
00:06:28
Jimmy
It was very exciting times. um
00:06:31
Jez
Yeah.
00:06:31
Jimmy
You know, it it was pretty empty as well in terms of whiskey in general, in the industry around brown Australia. It was kind of the the boom days of craft distilling.
00:06:42
Jimmy
And,
Focus on Whiskey and Financial Challenges
00:06:42
Jimmy
you know, we were the second whiskey distillery in the state. and There wasn't any around Australia at that time as well. And, yeah, i mean, like you say, we were the first to kind of focus on corn whiskey. And that was, you know, i've got a heavily influenced by the American style of whiskey production.
00:06:59
Jimmy
i I'm a big fan of bourbon whiskeys and American whiskey in general. And that comes down to the innovation. I really latched onto to the innovation in the industry compared to say lot of the locked up traditions that you have in say Scotland.
00:07:13
Jimmy
So that's where we kind of, we pivoted and focused more on the American style. And we focus on, I mean, we're we're a grain whiskey distillery. So we're not just a corn whiskey distillery. We focus on different grain profiles, but the corn was the first one of the ranks and yeah, we were building a new category. Back then, you know, it was exciting and, you know, I couldn't wait kind of get it out market.
00:07:39
Jimmy
But yeah, we soon ran into challenges entering a new market with a product that we obviously couldn't call a bourbon. Yes, there's a big bourbon market in Australia, but hey, we're not making bourbon technically because it's not made in the US.
00:07:53
Jez
All right. ahly
00:07:53
Jimmy
And we we knew that, but we we thought
00:07:59
Jimmy
was a bit easier but it wasn't in the end you know what what we call it is Australian corn whiskey then um
Local Grain Collaboration and Experimentation
00:08:09
Jimmy
but we also we we weren't saying hey we're going to replicate what is done in Scotland or America or Japan or anything like that in the end we're making Australian whiskey and making our own way which again is is its own category so it was challenging but it's exciting um we knew early on as well that the the fastest way to kind of educate the consumer about what is that corn whiskey is, is to get them into the distillery. So from day dot, 2014, started doing tours, whiskey masterclasses.
00:08:40
Jimmy
And that's the cool thing about craft distillery. You can actually come and see how it's all made on site. So right, right let's let's start showing people around us, show them how corn whiskey is made, why it's different.
00:08:52
Jimmy
um why you should be scared of it, why it's, you know, it's just as premium as ah as a malt, a Scotch single malt. So, yeah, I mean, it's, you know, 11 years in now. So I think we've slowly got the message out there that, you know, Australian Corn Whiskey sits up there with all your Aussie single moths as well.
00:09:12
Jez
Well, you're building the category because, like I said, there was nothing in Australia and there still really isn't. Like the only other one was, was it?
00:09:23
Jez
Top Shelf International, um the NED. And yeah, like... Look the way that's gone. So, you know, the fact that you guys are still around and still so pushing, you must be doing some things right. um Touching on the distillery itself, ah since it is the exact same building that you guys were in like 11 years ago,
00:09:46
Jez
ah the way you guys have worked out that space as well, like I guess having, say, the yeah the gift shop and the bar up front, and then you've still got like warehousing, you're able to like age barrels in there, which is makes for a very cool backdrop. And then you've got all other...
00:10:03
Jez
point to the distillery kind of feels like a movie lot tour and you're just like looking through and you're like okay cool this is happening here and you're like turn to left and you go oh cool an entirely different method of production but you've uh tetrised it all into this small space that you're working with
Optimizing Production and Consumer Engagement
00:10:18
Jez
um do you find that like utilizing the same space you're uh i'd say procedures get a lot tighter and you're able to find a faster turnaround
00:10:29
Jimmy
Yeah, it I guess the space has always been challenging in but think it's bit You know, I mean, i' I'm pretty anal about how we structured the the distillery itself and the process floodless and things like that as well to make it as efficient as possible.
00:10:49
Jimmy
You know, so yeah, you're kind of, you're jamming and a lot into one building. You've got a hospitality side of the building, you've got retail, you've got tourism, and then you've also got production and they all need to, and we're seven days a week. We've been open seven days week since we've opened.
00:11:05
Jimmy
So it all has to kind of meld together perfectly in harmony, because, you know, tourism side of it, it's revenue for the business. Production isn't necessarily creating cash, but it needs to needs to function to be able to give you two to four years time.
00:11:21
Jez
Yeah. yeah
00:11:24
Jimmy
So it's always been a fine balance and fine tuning over those those years, but we do it quite well. And, you know, the people in operation,
00:11:35
Jimmy
the and the fundamental part of what any distillery really is how we present the distillery, how clean and tidy we keep it. um So there's a lot of that and it is it is tricky, especially with barrel storage and things like that.
00:11:49
Jimmy
We do have another warehouse now, but yeah I think it's also important to have a space, I think a brick and mortar cellar door where your consumer can exit pay access you and see how your products are made.
00:11:54
Jez
definitely.
00:12:04
Jimmy
because that gives us a competitive edge. I say in terms of, we're relying it back to some the imported American brands in which we kind of compete with.
00:12:19
Jez
definitely
00:12:19
Jimmy
That's what we've got that they don't have. You can't easily access them. and see behind the scenes. And I can tell you some of those operations are on a mass scale, which will probably put you off some of their product. Whereas you can come visit us and see how it's made, where the grains come from.
00:12:36
Jimmy
And you'll see pictures of the farmers. You'll see the open top fermentation, distillation, maturation. even the bottling done live on the site, which I think is important. And it kind of also gets that message across to people that, okay, why is Australian risk more expensive?
00:12:54
Jimmy
Well, come have a look and we'll show you why it's more premium and what the quality is still there and why it's going to cost you little bit more than, say, some of your mass-produced stuff. So, um yeah. And the other the other reason we've also got hospitality in there is obviously we need to be able to,
00:13:12
Jimmy
sell there but you also need especially in those early early years when you're not selling whiskey you need ringing revenue from somewhere and that was for us events and things like that because we didn't go down the path of making gin or white spirits we had a moonshine but again that's a new category that didn't sell very well that's a hard sell but you know we focused on being whiskey history and being good at making whiskey and that that was it But we sacrifice a lot easy turnover with white spirits in the early early years.
00:13:46
Jez
<unk> I've reached a a bit of a ah point. I'm like, I want to take it one way. But you brought up an interesting topic about, I guess, ah the the first few years. So you said your your product's 4 years old.
00:13:57
Jez
What did the first 4 years look like for you guys? Because you know you you started producing moon Moonshine, then it was barrel-aged Moonshine as well. Because once again, you want to you want to have a revenue stream to keep the doors open, essentially.
00:14:12
Jez
um How did that... I guess, how was it navigating the first four years? Yep.
00:14:19
Jimmy
Yeah, it was like, well, was it only two years. So, uh, we see two years. Yeah. Um, the option series is mostly two, but then we go into the week up series four or five years. So it was two years, but yeah, you're right. It was, it was tricky. Um, we had to, we still had to, do the moonshine and events. and We had, we've got the coffee cellar door as well, but it also plays into how much you wanted to produce. So. a lot of that cash is getting sucked up into to making the risky. And you're trying to predict how much we see you need to make for the future sales as well.
00:14:54
Jimmy
So that was a bit of a learning curve running a business without a steady cashflow. So investment came into that as well. So we opened it up to more investment in those early years to bring in more capital, which is tricky, you know, like switching the West, a lot of investment over here is tied up in mining.
00:15:15
Jimmy
they're They're high risk, but high return.
00:15:18
Jez
I can understand the whiskey game there.
00:15:21
Jimmy
Yeah, yeah. Risk is it's it's high risk at the moment. Back then, it was probably low risk, but very very low return. it's It's a long-term investment. it's You're building something that will have a lot legacy. It's a long-term business, slow growth.
00:15:37
Jimmy
and trying to convince certain investors that that was hard. So again, that was another learning curve. It's how to raise in a tough market. And it's gotten ever so harder for a lot of people in the industry to raise capital. So yeah, it was ah it was it was tight.
00:15:56
Jimmy
And back then, I guess we were just steadfast against doing bonkers and things like that. But in own thought, think that could have accelerated I think we did then do something like that.
00:16:10
Jimmy
You know, today, in today's market, if you are starting a distillery and you wanted to do white spirits, again, very, very tricky now. It's just flooded, the market's flooded.
00:16:17
Jez
Mm-hmm.
00:16:18
Jimmy
So, but, you know, the cool thing is from a brand perspective, we got through that and we are known as ah as a whiskey facility, which is just what we wanted do.
00:16:31
Jez
The last thing you want to do is have a gin or vodka go viral. And that's what you guys are known for. And then you're like, well, we've produced this whiskey. And people are like, well, I don't care about your whiskey. I only care about this gin and this vodka you've produced.
00:16:44
Jez
And then it's like, well, what am I going to do with all this stock that I've now prepared? It's a ah tricky one. um So I guess we're very blessed that you guys took that road and uh i guess we landed where we are now uh with your grains you guys are utilizing uh one of the uh my favorite stories from you guys is like utilizing these australian grains um predominantly from wa um how do you guys find these these farmers
00:17:15
Jimmy
Yeah, so all WA, that's what we set out to do. And I guess the idea originally was to, instead of kind of relying too heavily on bowel barrel programs to give us our flavour profile, obviously barrels are extremely important for flavour in a whisky, but focusing more on the raw ingredient first and allowing the components of that grain to shine through into your profile in your whisky and highlighting those farmers as well.
00:17:45
Jimmy
grains which that i think we're doing enough of in australia um it's particularly though if if you look at scotland it's it's typically more the same same style pneumatic same grain profiles quite similarly irrelevant in mass production it's more just what also come out so well like well there's no traditions over here with that stuff so we're we're going to focus on local grain and that grain profile giving us out our flavors.
00:18:11
Jimmy
So but all the farmers are my mates. So that was the easy part, sourcing the grains. now
00:18:17
Jez
Yeah.
00:18:17
Jimmy
well
Innovative Aging and Collaboration with Brewing Industry
00:18:17
Jimmy
we Yeah, exactly.
00:18:19
Jez
trust right yeah
00:18:21
Jimmy
yeah we we know them all. So, you know, our corn is from kind of narrow way up in the kihibliess East region. The wheat, the barley, the rye,
00:18:34
Jimmy
the The key one that we use as well, things like that, all from the Weebel region of West Australia. It's one of the largest growing regions in in the country. So, and that was where grew up. So I went to agricultural college.
00:18:48
Jimmy
So was surrounded by brain growers with their day dogs. So it was pretty easy. But the cool thing as well, knowing the farmers and having access to those farmers, we didn't get varieties growing for us, and it's specific to what we wanted to achieve in our whisky. For instance, the coloured corns, there's no one else in Australia doing coloured color corns. So obviously we do Upshot, which is our original yellow corn.
00:19:16
Jimmy
then Then we started importing different corns for him to grow. And he grows that just for us. He just has one paddock that he plays around with. We did the red corn. I've got the rainbow corn, he's growing some baby blue for us at the moment.
00:19:29
Jez
Okay. okay
00:19:30
Jimmy
Super, super challenging for him. It doesn't make any money off it. He just, he's a super awesome dude, but he will take bottles of whiskey and instead, which is a great, great commodity for us. um And that was to kind of highlight as well, the different profiles you get when you're growing to grow. So we make the actual series the same in terms of the barrels, the maturation cycles that we use.
00:19:56
Jimmy
this is we half the grain and back you get a different flight So, which is pretty exciting. Even now as well with our single malt that we make, we're getting it from a farmer who's good mate of mine I grew up with.
00:20:10
Jimmy
He grows it and then he's also got a craft malting plant now on his farm. So, we actually got our own spec malt done for us with a blend of different Munich and distillers malt and this honey honey badger, they call it.
00:20:28
Jimmy
which has got a bit a honey flavor to it. So we've custom blend our own mold on the farm gate and get delivered by his wife to the distillery, which is pretty cool. So yeah, yeah.
00:20:39
Jez
Very cool, yes.
00:20:41
Jimmy
So I think it just gives us a unique standpoint as well, but you know, some of the quality in those grains are incredible. Like our rye whiskey at the moment is banging. It is incredible. It's a hell of variety.
00:20:53
Jimmy
um
00:20:54
Jez
I love your ride.
00:20:54
Jimmy
It's been,
00:20:56
Jez
Where is it?
00:20:56
Jimmy
Yeah, saw it in the background there. Yeah,
00:20:58
Jez
Yeah, I like absolutely love your ride. It's like easily one of my favorite Australian rides. Speaking of I'm going pour some now.
00:21:05
Jimmy
go for it. Yeah, the latest match is is incredible.
00:21:08
Jez
i mean
00:21:12
Jez
Well, as you guys continue to produce, it's just going to get older and older and like it's just going to reflect quality, right?
00:21:20
Jimmy
Yeah. Yeah, I think what barometer is that?
00:21:24
Jez
I've got bar number two.
00:21:26
Jimmy
Okay, yeah. I think we're, lot of it this, lot of this wheatgrass series at the moment is coming out at around over five years old now. ah and that And that being in Newark, in you now pretty warm, dry climate is, yeah, it's still some pretty incredible things.
00:21:33
Jez
Oh, amazing.
00:21:43
Jimmy
Yeah.
00:21:43
Jez
I love it.
00:21:44
Jez
it's It's really hard to get around Australian whiskey for me because, as you can see, I'm just surrounded by corn. So there's not many distilleries in Australia that are actually producing...
00:21:56
Jez
I'd say stuff that I'd reach for. um So like trying your rye a few years ago, I was like, oh no, I e i found a Australian rye that I'm like really vibing.
00:22:08
Jez
um So it was cool to come back, say earlier, was it earlier this year? I think it might've been. um And then just come back through and like trying more of your new releases. But I guess you you said you have a Wheatbelt series. um You want to take people through that in case they're not familiar with
00:22:26
Jimmy
Yeah, so the the separation there, so the Upshot series was our original series and that's what Corn is. So we've got the Upshot original, we've got the Bandit, we've got the Car Strength as well, then we've got Rainbow Corn, we've got some Fortified Upshot, we've got the PX.
00:22:46
Jez
Diabolic.
00:22:47
Jimmy
Yeah, that was incredible, that sold out pretty quick, that one. That was in a 60-year-old Fortified cast that we got from a a friend in the valley here.
00:22:58
Jimmy
um Yeah, from a pretty famous winery too, Italian dish winery, incredible fortifieds.
00:22:58
Jez
hyperbolic
00:23:05
Jimmy
This barrel barrel was so thick and juicy. we We put it in, so we put put in the upshot, it was already two years old, and we left it there for another four, because I kind of forgot about it.
00:23:17
Jimmy
And then we pulled it out and it was like, okay, this is too heavy.
00:23:19
Jez
Yeah.
00:23:21
Jimmy
Like it just tasted really too heavy on the port side of things. So we actually did a slower, we we kind of cut it down little bit apart. Yeah, so that's the actual series, right? So that's the corn whiskey series.
00:23:35
Jimmy
Then we go over the wheat belt series. So this is where the distillation is a little bit different. um So they're heavier, bolder distillates. So that means it's going to require a lot more time and in barrels as well.
00:23:50
Jimmy
These include our single malt. This includes the rye whiskey, which you've got, the wheat whiskey. That was our first that we released in that series. So that's a 90% wheat. It's a special red winter hard wheat.
00:24:08
Jimmy
And we've also got one that's not released yet, which is a barley whiskey, which is unmalted barley, unmalted barley. And that's been aging for about nine years now. So that hasn't been released yet.
00:24:18
Jimmy
We might look at that next year.
00:24:20
Jez
Paul.
00:24:21
Jimmy
um But they they're all single origin kind of grain whiskies and they're all praying premium grain. So this is on the higher end of the price point, but you know they they're aged longer and they're heavier distilates as well.
00:24:36
Jimmy
So if you like a lighter style whisky, go for your upshot. If you like any kind of heavier grain whiskies, that Wheatbelt series, what you want to aim for. But in saying that the Upshot series has, we had a nine year old that we released last year.
00:24:51
Jimmy
ah and That was, that was pretty cool. Oh, big love, yeah.
00:24:56
Jez
I tried the video of... Um, yeah. And I was like sold on it. I was like, yeah I need this, but like a case of them delivered to my place.
00:25:07
Jez
Um, cause I think it might've been maybe six months after you had the the bottle sitting out or something. I was talking to one of the bartenders there and I was like, yeah, this incredible was what? Seven years old.
00:25:21
Jez
Um, I can't remember if I tried the, Can't remember if I tried the nine-year when we were there last, but I was just like, ah okay, you guys are on the right track here. It's just like, right, longer in oak and you're, I guess, touching new flavor points that you haven't been able to discover before using, um I'd say, like two-year-old, four, six-year-old distillate.
00:25:48
Jez
Yeah.
00:25:53
Jimmy
Yeah. I mean, I think so with the big love as well, that's actually, uh, uh, kind of. It's true spirit. So that, and that, that goes through four distillation.
00:26:05
Jimmy
So then it's it's heavy spirit. It comes off still around 60%.
00:26:07
Jez
Yeah.
00:26:08
Jimmy
since sixty percent
00:26:10
Jez
Beautiful.
00:26:10
Jimmy
So that, that stuff, you know, um, that is one of my favorites, although it's not released yet. It is, is like a really heavy,
00:26:22
Jimmy
hexane style bourbon you know it's been cooking in the sun for for 10 years we'll probably release that at 10 years so i think that might be next year if we think we're planning that for next year um it'll sit probably around the 50 as well but yeah that that is a ah very very rich very very rich bourbon um
00:26:38
Jez
Oh, amazing.
00:26:44
Jimmy
But yeah, very different to the Arpshop original, which is much lighter, easier going for for the for our market here. But yeah, if you really like your heavy style bourbon, that's probably as close as you're gonna get it. Yeah.
00:26:56
Jez
this Yeah, when you guys work out, I got to fly over.
00:26:56
Jimmy
by oh yeah
00:27:00
Jez
ah Tasty. Alright, so we've got your um all right so we've got essentially entry-level easy sippers, something for someone to grasp onto. Then we've got your wheat belt series.
00:27:13
Jez
you' ah Take me through your single malt. What was the decision to start laying down some single malt? I feel like it didn't feel on brand for you guys.
00:27:24
Jez
But like the fact you're like, well, look, we've got this beautiful grain that we're growing here. Let's really showcase it and and put it in some ah different casts you had available.
00:27:31
Jimmy
Thank you.
00:27:36
Jimmy
Yeah. I mean, that's, you basically nailed it right there. I mean, I'm in a big singforet single vault, single-wild ringer myself. So, um, really, really wanted to do one. it was just about doing it in our own way, not, not kind of doing what the rest of the market was doing.
00:27:50
Jimmy
So what you see with the single vault as well, it's, it is a it's done differently through, obviously through our column seals. Uh, it's gone through quite a few, few plates distillation, but again, with that, we, we,
00:28:05
Jimmy
we use our ex-Upshot barrels. So with, with say, the xsh shot the Upshot original, they get brand new American oak every time. Exactly the same as the beer industry. And these are 200 liter pass, chart three.
00:28:23
Jimmy
Get used in them once.
00:28:23
Jez
Oh, okay. yes
00:28:25
Jimmy
Yep. so And they're all 24-month season casts as well. So they'll do two years in in the Upshot. And then most of these barrels... don't get reused again. So we we sell them back into the Australian whiskey industry or into the brewers.
00:28:41
Jimmy
But like, I guess, if you think a lot of single molts around the world, they use ex bourbons and we we have our own ex bourbon style, right? So it's an Australian whiskey barrel. So we roll those over. So we've got a bit of that kind of whippersnapping DNA in that cask and roll over into our single mol.
00:28:59
Jimmy
Um, so that's a big, big point of difference there is the cast that we use our own our own casts from our previous called whiskey. Um, and then the grain portion of it as well is quite unique as well. So again, what we're we are, we're passionate about is just hollowing those grains, those point of differences as well. So the single malt that's at five years at the moment, um,
00:29:24
Jimmy
You know, it's it's winning gold medals. It's kicking goals like the rest of the Weetbelt Series. They've all won gold medals and category wins at World Whiskey Awards this year. um yeah, thank you.
00:29:34
Jez
Congratulations.
00:29:36
Jimmy
So, yeah, it's a solid drop. um and And it's different. It still carries that with the 17A. A lot of caramel, vanilla, and, you know, stewed apples and pears and stuff like that. So it's a nice whiskey.
00:29:49
Jez
And once again, you're saying it's carrying that whippersnapper DNA. That is also what drives me towards single malts as well. It's like, give me essentially bourbon, but give it a single malt twist. And you're like, okay, cool. i can I can sit here, enjoy this. Give me a glass. I'll navigate my way through it. And I'm like, do I feel like another one? Maybe, maybe not. But it's, ah I'd say more of a comfort thing for me.
00:30:17
Jez
So it's cool that you guys are able to go, well, we'll reuse the barrels. Plus it keeps everything in-house too. So it all works. Okay. um What else do you guys have in your portfolio?
00:30:29
Jez
um He did the last big release. He had some cool stuff coming up. um I'm trying to remember. they tell us anything? quinoa. Quinoa. How did you stumble on the quinoa?
00:30:41
Jez
That was...
00:30:41
Jimmy
Yeah.
00:30:43
Jez
It's insane. Like the fact that you guys are like, just distill quinoa, let's make it a whiskey.
00:30:49
Jimmy
Yeah.
00:30:51
Jez
never, never heard of it before. Never thought about it. I'm just like corn, primary grain and you guys are like quinoa. ah
00:31:00
Jimmy
we We like to um shake things up a little bit, be a bit controversial. Yeah, the quinoa was and is an interesting one because, again, um you know, a friend frame is growing it.
00:31:12
Jimmy
People, family, friends of ours. And we thought, you know, why not give it a crack, turn it into whiskey? Because actually the farmer who was delivering some wheat to us, and he goes, oh, I'm actually planning to grow some quinoa.
00:31:28
Jimmy
This is a big, big market. This is back in, like, 20...
00:31:34
Jimmy
15, 2016 when came by market was kind of booming and it was all on trend with this high protein, kind of fad at that stage. So yeah, give us some,
00:31:44
Jez
Oh, yeah. mean I'm trying to feed me to i'll feed it to me. I'm like, yeah, okay, I'll pass.
00:31:49
Jimmy
yeah, it's pretty bland stuff.
00:31:49
Jez
No, thank
00:31:52
Jez
Yeah.
00:31:52
Jimmy
Yeah. Never, never got on put myself, but, um, yeah, thought we'd make a whiskey out of it. And at the time there was only one other, distillery in the world doing it was Corsair.
00:32:02
Jimmy
I think they were Tennessee from memory that were making a Kimo whiskey.
00:32:06
Jez
Yeah.
00:32:09
Jimmy
So i reached out to them um and yeah, we're like, yeah, let's let's give it a go And it was very, very difficult to mill, number one, it's tiny little seed and it was just falling through the mill. So we had to mill like five times to get any flour of it.
00:32:28
Jimmy
ah And then obviously it's high in protein, so pretty useless really in terms of like converting out the alcohol, you need carbohydrate. So it didn't yield very well.
00:32:40
Jimmy
Fermented similar to corn, but yeah, it made a whiskey out of it. It was good fun. It was called ProDeQ. Sold pretty well. Very polarizing in the industry and, and, and,
00:32:51
Jimmy
you know, whiskey palates out there, which is exciting. i love annoying people, pissing them off a bit. You know, it's very it's very nutty and earthy and and and spicy.
00:32:56
Jez
What
00:33:01
Jimmy
And, you know, I've had malt distillers from Scotland, you know, 30 years in industry come over at holidays and they're like, can you buy whiskey? The fuck is that? And then have a taste and, oh, this is incredible. You know, it's so different.
00:33:16
Jimmy
Then I've had people go, this is this is not for me, you know, so... Look, we don't we don't make it anymore, but I've still got a lot.
00:33:23
Jez
have you got?
00:33:24
Jimmy
I've heap barrels yeah.
00:33:26
Jez
You've got bigger things going on. You're like, we've got to get out. Like all these Wheatbelt series and like Big Love and you're like, can't be... Gone are the days where you need to be creative with different grains. Do you find yourself still wanting to do that kind of stuff though? Like just take... Like as you said, you were doing like rainbow corn, red corn, different heirloom corns.
00:33:50
Jez
um But I'd say like... fucking around so to speak with different other kind of grains.
00:33:58
Jimmy
Not so much.
00:34:00
Jez
Yeah.
00:34:00
Jimmy
we've We've got so much on the portfolio. We only have to head to the website and see how many different products we've got. but And I've still got different ones in in cars. So, yeah, in the early days, it was a lot of mucking around and R&D and d things like that.
00:34:13
Jimmy
But I think the way the way the industry is the moment, yeah we need some kind of solid continuity in the brand structure and the risk is as well.
00:34:25
Jimmy
So yeah, I mean, I'd love to do a bit more, but i think we've we've got enough. i think we we're going to continue with our seasonal releases of different colored corn varieties. So we've got some green corn there.
00:34:37
Jimmy
i mean, that's end ones really.
00:34:37
Jez
Yeah. yeah
00:34:39
Jimmy
But in terms of using different grains, we'll probably keep a lid on it for now. um And yeah, keep it as is. I mean, we still, like I said, we've this barley whiskey that's not released yet, which is more of an Irish style, right, which is more of Bali.
00:34:57
Jimmy
I just haven't released that even so, and that's a new style that you you probably won't really see here in Australia as well. So, yeah, we've just got to calm down a little bit, yeah.
00:35:10
Jimmy
a
00:35:11
Jez
You land on like a Bali style whiskey.
00:35:11
Jimmy
Yeah.
00:35:15
Jez
It's not something you wake up in the morning going, this is what I want to do today.
00:35:19
Jimmy
yeah Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's it's fun to be creative. You don't have to, so you don't have to kind of conform to the norms that we we have in the world.
00:35:31
Jez
Of course.
00:35:32
Jimmy
As long as you're making it you know, you're not trying to reinvent the wheel and you're respecting those traditions. And number one, you make a good quality whiskey at the end It's okay to play around different grains.
00:35:44
Jimmy
There's no, no rules against that. But from a, from the end, I guess from the marketing and the sales point of view, you know, you've got to think of the economics of it as well.
00:35:56
Jimmy
You can't keep creating all these niche products like quinoa because they're not going to keep your business afloat, you know what I mean?
00:36:05
Jez
No, definitely not. No, you'll definitely get some clicks online and people are like, oh, have to suss that out. But it's not going to yeah it's not going to pay the bills. so Choosing, a ah I'd say, Irish style whiskey is ah an interesting move because once again, it just rounds out that wheat belt series portfolio for you guys. Then you're hitting all the different markets there.
00:36:30
Jimmy
yeah
00:36:30
Jez
It's all an interesting move. um I'll circle back to the events you guys are holding on site. I know you guys were sending like barrels to brewers and then you were releasing the beers um within the distillery. you guys still, um i guess, working closely with brewers to create your own boilermakers?
00:36:53
Jimmy
Yeah, not so much. I think that was mostly driven too by lot of the brewers as well. It's the same kind of cycle, you know, the craft scene was booming, the craft beer scene, and they were all trying to be different with all these different funky beers and aged beers.
00:37:13
Jimmy
um I mean, it still still happens, but they they've kind of narrowed down and commercialised a lot of the ranges you probably noticed with beer as well.
00:37:14
Jez
Yeah.
00:37:21
Jimmy
because the that's the beauty of shift the market. It's not, I mean, lot of brewers love ka creating stuff like we do, but you know, you need a good solid lager and you get a good solid pale ale and things like that to pay the bills. So we don't do as many of them, but yeah, back in the were doing it a lot. is And again, this this is with friends as well.
00:37:43
Jimmy
know, the guys at Ferrell back in the day, Equal Bay Brewing, Beer Farm, guys like that, that are just good lads to go out beer with and and create cool stuff as well because you know the beer industry over here is quite large and and the whiskey industry is tiny distilling industry very small so we lent on them because they were our closest neighbor in terms of similar industries and you know we learned a lot from the beer industry and the in the early days of how to grow it how to market you know how to how to get a voice out to the consumer as well so but yeah we still we still have a bit fun here and there
00:37:45
Jez
Yep. Hmm.
00:38:23
Jimmy
we're We're actually in in a of hours heading off to brewery for our staff party. So we're off off to a friend's brewery, who found crappy beers to go have some beers. Something bit different for or our team. So it should be fun. Well,
00:38:38
Jez
i'm lucky i've got you today and not like post hung tomorrow that's it's uh yeah right that's uh would have gotten all of you see goss
00:38:44
Jimmy
but we could do it. We could have done it tonight. I would have been pretty pretty. definite
00:38:52
Jez
Oh, love it. Okay. So you said you use ISC. How did you get the contact for ISC and just started to start using their barrels? ah Because I don't know anyone else in Australia that is using Independence Dave Company in Australia.
00:39:08
Jimmy
Yeah, well this is where it helps having a mentor in the US. He was buying IC barrels for his distiller in Colorado. And when we set up, he was like, look, I don't think you'd be able to get them me in Australia because they their books are full.
00:39:26
Jimmy
But I'll buy them and then them to my house. He's got property and then I'll then borrow range of shipping to Australia. So that's how we were doing it in the early days.
00:39:37
Jimmy
um
00:39:37
Jez
that is insane
00:39:40
Jimmy
Yeah, they caught on to that.
00:39:42
Jez
yeah
00:39:43
Jimmy
And so there is a, I guess, a retailer here in Australia, 1912 Coopridge, Patrick, absolute legend, knows heaps about barrels.
00:39:58
Jimmy
Patrick actually reached out to us and said, hey, you're buying IC Coopridges? I'm actually the local dealer. And it's good we've had that relationship 1912 for so for a long time now. So yeah, we were the first in Australia import, I guess, new oak for the purpose of whisky.
00:40:17
Jimmy
a lot of the distilleries at that time were kind of repurposing wine pack rosin and things like that, which is a different way doing we we focus on that version of oak that had been used, the traditional, I guess, bourbon sole cask.
00:40:23
Jez
Yeah. Yeah.
00:40:33
Jimmy
Yeah.
00:40:34
Jez
you were aiming to be as close as you could to Bourbon anyway. So the narrative fits. It's...
00:40:40
Jimmy
Yeah.
00:40:43
Jez
I love it. oh Also your ah connection to the military. ah We were over there, ah myself and a couple of defense members.
00:40:54
Jez
ah we We dropped in couple of pause, a tour, and um they found out about your ahenion ah defense connections and how you guys, ah you've got a club for defense members.
00:41:08
Jimmy
Yeah, that's right. We've got the Whippersnapper Veterans Club and that was founded in, I think, about 2021.
00:41:13
Jez
Mm-hmm.
00:41:16
Jimmy
And, you know, we we do have, obviously, a tribute to World War II vets in terms of the Bowen Plains. So that was a neighbour of my brother-in-law, Vic Tango, who flew Lancasters during the war.
00:41:30
Jimmy
so And he used to make a bit homebrew at Moonshine in his backyard. So that's where my brother-in-law, Alah, Um, so that's where the bomber plane kind of came from.
00:41:44
Jimmy
And we wanted to kind of highlight that. I guess it was, you know, those guys were as brave as you get, um, who jumped in those, those little flying tink hands and most of them that came back.
00:41:56
Jez
It's insane.
00:41:57
Jimmy
Yeah, it's insane. so but from, from that, I guess we, uh, we, we, we do have connections and we, we started to do, um, some private labeling for some military units over here in the West.
00:42:11
Jimmy
and it started to grow and we started to employ veterans as well. And then currently our current general manager is an 18 year army veteran himself and he's heavily involved in founding that with myself, the veterans club back in 2021 to give back to to veterans.
00:42:35
Jimmy
And that's been going really strong. We've probably got about 800 members on on that system. we We occasionally do events in the distillery for them, exclusive for them.
00:42:49
Jimmy
And it was right the original ethos for it or the original plan for it was to kind of give veterans or serving members still, not just for veterans, a place to kind of hang out that's off the books, private and somewhere where you know, they could still have that camaraderie even if they're not still employed because we see a lot of that where they might leave the service and they're a little bit lost.
00:43:15
Jimmy
They're not sure where they could be employed um and they lose that kind of those friend and framework groups that they have in the military or even related services as well. So we want to kind of replicate that as best we could.
00:43:29
Jimmy
Um, we're, we only have small business, so we, we, we can't offer too much, but you know, we've got discounting and things like that. So, and that's been going, going strong for quite a while. Um, and mean, Ryan, uh, the GM who was in Yami, he now, uh, heads up his own charity as well, Working Paws Australia, which is, um, lot of the, that's designed for, um, ex-working, um, animals or dogs, um, for post, um,
00:43:59
Jimmy
medical, like post-career medical services and things like that where a lot of the military at the moment, once these animals are discharged, they go with their their handlers or their owners.
00:44:11
Jimmy
There's no medical support from the government from then on. So you're on your own. It can be quite expensive as well. So that's all.
00:44:19
Jez
Which is such a shame.
00:44:20
Jimmy
Yeah, it is a shame. Yeah, it is a shame the government don't don't support that. And that's a whole other battle that Brian deals with with his his charity, of trying to get funding for that. So yeah, we we we do a lot in that space as best we can as and a small business. But we're still doing a lot of private labelling for military as well, which is pretty cool. We've probably done 50 different labels over the years for different units in the Navy, in the police force, in tactical response groups around Australia, in the Air Force.
00:44:54
Jimmy
um through a lot of your special forces, um, units as well. so it's pretty, it's pretty fun. Um, and we do corporate stuff as well.
00:45:00
Jez
Yeah.
00:45:01
Jimmy
So yeah.
00:45:03
Jez
So what did that private labeling look like, especially if someone was looking at, I guess, getting in touch and wanting to create ah a private label?
00:45:03
Jimmy
done
00:45:11
Jez
Would it look like a barrel select or would it be a um like purely just a custom label on a release?
00:45:20
Jimmy
at this stage is its just like a custom label on a release. wonder if I've got a shelf at the moment. here But it's just basically a custom label. So you would approach us with a design. We have a a template that makes it easier. You can kind of fill out the template. We take your design.
00:45:41
Jimmy
We take it to our graphic designer and we design a label. And we normally give you an option of the type of whiskey you might want, Upshot or Bandit or or some of the cast drink of Weebell series. um Yeah, so a lot of them a lot of the organisations will use for fundraising.
00:45:57
Jimmy
So they're not not looking for something too specialised because I guess when it gets to creating a whiskey from scratch, it gets a little bit pricey, it gets a little bit complicated as well.
00:46:08
Jimmy
Whereas if you just take one of our whiskeys off the shelf and we decide a new label for and you co out to whatever you want with it fundraise commemorative things.
00:46:18
Jimmy
though And we do that all the way from 24 bottles all the way. We've done one for the police over here recently. It 250 bottles for a four years anniversary, which is pretty cool.
00:46:28
Jez
It's
00:46:31
Jimmy
Yeah.
00:46:32
Jez
essentially a single barrel anyway.
00:46:34
Jimmy
It is is basically single. and That was a special single barrel, actually, which is easy to do when you go up to a full cart. Yeah, that's right.
00:46:42
Jez
No, that is sick. It's ah it's great to see distilleries actually going, well, look, we we recognize the the hard work that the people of Australia are putting in and like wanting to go, well, look, we'll actually set up a space for you come, hang out, a couple of drinks, and like just be able to essentially debrief.
00:47:01
Jez
It's... ah Oh, it's cool to see. Well, thank you very much for jumping on with me today. You've rented lot questions.
00:47:07
Jimmy
Easy.
00:47:08
Jez
You crushed it. um you want to do a ah little rapid-fire closeout with me um just to kind of round off, um I guess, our little chat today.
00:47:21
Jez
yeah.
00:47:22
Jimmy
Yep. I'll keep it short as short I can.
00:47:25
Jez
It's right. There's only a couple of questions here.
00:47:27
Jimmy
Yep.
00:47:28
Jez
ah What is one of the weirdest whiskeys you've ever tried?
00:47:34
Jimmy
Ah. It's gonna... That is a good question. I want to say it's one of it. It's probably a king of whiskey.
00:47:47
Jimmy
I'm not saying it's...
00:47:48
Jez
It's so it's definitely definitely something else.
00:47:53
Jimmy
Yeah.
00:47:55
Jez
It's not going to be my go-to, but um yeah, it's the fact that you guys came up with it. Go fuck it. Let's create this. It's mind-blowing to me. It's just, you can grinds off shelf. I like it. Okay.
00:48:08
Jez
ah Are you a car strength or a, I'd say, perfectly balanced kind of man?
00:48:16
Jimmy
Perfectly balanced. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cause mean, I'm drinking, drinking you know, in warm weather they're on a beach with friends. So it needs to be more versatile.
00:48:27
Jimmy
Yeah. Yeah.
00:48:29
Jez
especially warmer weather over in perth it's a summer cocktail season at the moment like i'm sweating here today and it's like 31 i'm complaining no i can only imagine the mediterranean climate you guys are persevering through today
00:48:45
Jez
All right. You know, whiskey apocalypse, all the bottles are gone except one bottle. What is that bottle you're creating a cult around?
00:48:54
Jimmy
Big love. 100% 100% big love.
00:48:57
Jez
Okay. ah but on me arm
00:48:59
Jimmy
Yeah.
00:49:01
Jez
That is, can't wait.
00:49:01
Jimmy
Yeah.
00:49:03
Jez
I'm so excited. This is the bottle I've been dreaming about for years. All
00:49:08
Jimmy
Gives us all love in a big way.
00:49:12
Jez
right. Last two. ah In your opinion, what is the most highly rated but undervalued whiskey on the market at the moment?
00:49:25
Jimmy
Um, I think if you, yeah, it's probably, it's probably Garrison brothers.
00:49:26
Jez
Something...
00:49:31
Jimmy
Um, yeah, if you can get a hold of some of their, their special releases, um,
00:49:32
Jez
Ooh.
00:49:38
Jez
Like the Gamora...
00:49:40
Jimmy
yeah, even the cowboy release as well.
00:49:43
Jez
Yep.
00:49:43
Jimmy
Um, however, it's probably highly rated in the US. It's just underrated here, probably cause you can't get it raised.
00:49:49
Jez
Yeah. Yeah, it's... ah
00:49:51
Jimmy
Yeah.
00:49:54
Jez
I think I might have tried like maybe there two standards and I'm like, okay, okay. Like classic Texas bourbon. Can't go wrong. Okay.
00:50:05
Jez
Very interesting.
00:50:09
Jez
I might have to try and find some, send you over some. Okay.
00:50:12
Jimmy
I've got a stack at home actually.
00:50:13
Jez
Oh, good, good, good. I was going to say... Can't have you now on Texas bourbon. Okay. And last question. If you could share a dram with any historical figure from any point in time, who would it be and why?
00:50:26
Jez
Okay.
00:50:28
Jimmy
have to be Winston Churchill. who Who would want to sit there and have whiskey with Ag? I mean, the the amount of drinking that guy did and functioned at such a high level. and And what, and just to hear him speak as well, like just to, yeah, it that would be, that would be my, my, my go-to, I think, sitting around with him and have a cigar and a whiskey.
00:50:51
Jez
I love it. I love it.
00:50:53
Jimmy
Yeah.
00:50:54
Jez
Well, thank you very much for jumping on with me today, Jimmy. I appreciate you taking the time, especially before your ah big staff event tonight.
00:51:02
Jimmy
Look at that.
00:51:02
Jez
um It can be tearing it up. I love it. Well, yeah, thank you very much for jumping on. ah Do you want to link in your socials? do you have any events coming up that you want to plug?
00:51:13
Jez
You're
00:51:14
Jimmy
Yeah, well, thanks for having me on. um it's been It's been good chat.
00:51:17
Jez
very welcome.
00:51:18
Jimmy
It's been really easy. um Yeah, it just whippersnapperdistillery.com, jump on there. If you are interested, if you're a veteran or certain member, the where the information is on the Veterans Club there. um You can sign up. It's pretty easy. um Private labeling as well. If you if you can and doing private labels on the website, jump on. and Or give us follow on social media as well, whippersnapperdistillery.
00:51:43
Jimmy
So, yeah.
00:51:45
Jez
Thank you. And any events coming up?
00:51:48
Jimmy
Nah, no events at this point. Nah, just,
00:51:51
Jez
out of yay How did you do at Whiskey Abbey, actually, before I round you out?
00:51:54
Jimmy
oh, awesome. Yeah, Whiskey Abbey was great, great show, great show, great great audience as well.
00:51:55
Jez
Yeah.
00:51:59
Jimmy
Good vibe there, a lot of great stories, so it's probably one of the best whiskey shows I've ever done.
00:52:05
Jez
Wow, awesome.
00:52:06
Jimmy
So if, yeah, if you get anyone the listening, want to go there next year, definitely do it. do And what a lot of people were doing, we were getting two-day tickets because there was so much selection there.
00:52:18
Jimmy
do like one haul one day and the next haul the second day, because you will not be able to get through it all before you get too drunk. So yeah, <unk> good show to go to.
00:52:26
Jez
yeah kind of getting obliterated and like missing out on this quality well you can have people getting obliterated but uh you don't want to miss out on the good quality whiskey
00:52:34
Jimmy
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. We'll be there next year, hopefully. Yeah.
00:52:40
Jez
amazing anything but soon then
00:52:42
Jimmy
Nah, nothing, nothing at this stage. Yeah. Watch out for big love.
00:52:47
Jez
Yeah. Oh, can't wait. All right. Well, yeah, I will link everything in the show notes anyway. But yeah, thanks again for jumping on. i appreciate you. ah And yeah, hopefully you pull up okay tomorrow.
00:53:00
Jimmy
Easy. Thank you very much. Cheers.
00:53:03
Jez
ah Cheers, legends.
00:53:04
Jimmy
Cheers, bud.
00:53:05
Jez
Thank you.