Transcript
Jez: What's up guys, Jez here from Non Chill Filtered. I have the lovely gents from Prohibition Gin on. I'm actually excited to have you guys on. it's um I've been seeing your product everywhere.
Jez: I've tried it at the, where was it? I think might've been the Canberra Gin Festival, like,
Prohibition: Yeah, that could probably be it. That would make sense.
Jez: Um, and yeah, it's like, I guess dominating the branding on gin. I was like, you know if I'm saying that everywhere, it must be good. So gents, if you want to give yourselves a quick introduction,
Prohibition: Sure. So I'm Adam. ah Prohibition started in my backyard all those years ago, almost 10 years ago. yeah And this is Hugh, our head distiller. Hello, hello.
Prohibition: Lovely to to touch base. Yeah, so we're sitting here right in front of Hugh's office actually. That's
Jez: And what a cool office it is.
Prohibition: it.
Jez: am jealous. i don't have an office that looks anywhere as cool as that.
Prohibition: Yeah, it's got some it's got some good artwork on the wall, right?
Prohibition: bit of length. ah So yes, our distillery is here in Adelaide CBD, so we're right in the city and have been here for, ooh, heading towards eight years. That's it.
Prohibition: That's it. Yeah, so the brand started in 2015. We've had the tasting room here since 2017. And, yeah, I've been producing here as well um in the heart of the Adelaide CBD. Every single drop comes out of the still behind us.
Prohibition: And we also have a production facility out in the Brossa Valley now out at Sevalets Field on the winery precinct in the old 150-year-old Sevalets Field distillery.
Jez: There's actually a really cool spot to be distilling. I really want to touch on that in a second, but how did you guys actually land on prohibition? Cause like myself coming from like, yeah.
Prohibition: ah biing Winding back to 2015, when we first sort of started talking about doing this, we did a bit of research around the like the gin industry at the time.
Jez: Yeah.
Prohibition: And it was this notion of gin was really starting to boom in 2015, even in Australia, it was sort of early days of of craft gin. and But we look back in the history of gin and when was the last time it had such a boom and it was back in Prohibition. So we really sort of started delving into what it was during that time that made gin so popular. It was a lot to do with convenience. so It was easy to make. It was easy to make. It was fast to make.
Prohibition: And it was, um you know, because so much gin was being produced at the time, around the time of, you know, speakeasies, the golden era of cocktails started to emerge, which is why so many of our classic cocktails these days are still gin-based, is because of what happened during Prohibition.
Jez: Amen.
Prohibition: um So you had we had this sort of boom of gin uptake back then. There was the... the speakeasy bar culture, golden era of cocktails, and a lot of sort of really interesting mythology around that time around what happened with alcohol.
Prohibition: Even though it was illegal, it was it certainly didn't stop people drinking. So this notion of bringing people what they wanted, whether it was legal or not, was it's quite an interesting and fun notion to work with.
Prohibition: Absolutely. I mean, the the thematic ties you can pull on it, the kind of are the different coming together a people and different from different backgrounds as it was a really exciting thing for us.
Prohibition: And I suppose the thematic possibilities, it makes for really strong um brand to kind of tease out over the years. Yeah, it's a lot to work with. I'm a branding person, so it's a hell of a lot to work with in that in that sort of timeframe.
Prohibition: And then um i guess, you know, from there it was it was really <unk>re when we're in when we're overseas and we're talking about prohibition, they say, well, that was very, it was an American thing.
Prohibition: Did you ever have prohibition in Australia?
Jez: you
Prohibition: Interestingly, I always call on the fact that, yes, we did in Canberra back in the day, but I always throw throw away a bit of a line. Are you based in Canberra, Jess?
Jez: ah No, no, Sydney-based.
Prohibition: Oh, there you go.
Jez: but tom Yeah, it's pretty much they pretty much chipped away into New South Wales.
Prohibition: Quite a point to that.
Jez: So like I don't really want to claim them, but they're pretty much in our state.
Prohibition: yeah So my my throwaway line is always, yes, we had prohibition in Canberra back in the 20s, but it didn't last very long because we're Australians and we wouldn't put up with it, and not that many people go to Canberra anyway.
Prohibition: So, yes, sorry, Canberra. We do love our Canberra fence.
Jez: Of course, especially if they're signing the bill to kind of lower these taxes we're all paying.
Prohibition: Oh, that's it that's been exactly it.
Jez: I
Prohibition: Yes, and we do send a lot of tax money into Canberra.
Jez: ah so i think that's why their salaries are so big.
Prohibition: yeah yeah
Jez: It's just all this tax money we're sending them. It's like income tax and spirit tax.
Prohibition: Yeah. Yeah. beautiful camera fan we have
Jez: ah I love it.
Prohibition: ah
Jez: ah love it. Okay. So how did you guys land on gin then? Because you said like it was prior out to the the boom and if it's taking you back to say prohibition and what prohibition in the US is what 1920s and they were making this bathtub gin and they were adding all these different kinds of of like kerosene and tobacco spit and just really rolling it out.
Prohibition: look
Prohibition: ah yeah yeah
Jez: um Obviously you guys aren't doing that to any of your products, but did you guys land on Jin? land on chin
Prohibition: Look, I guess for me personally, I'm a designer. So as a designer, and ah and I sort of, ah this is where the the parallel happens with my creativity and Hugh's creativity, is I think, you know, the create ah the creativity embedded in gin is is much broader than it is in almost any other spirit where um You know, we have juniper and in Australia, we're not really bound by any any of the notional rules of making in London dry gin.
Jez: Mm-hmm.
Prohibition: So we have juniper and then we have this, you know, veritable cornucopia of different botanical species. I think that's just it, right? Like when prohibition started back in 2015, it really was at the birth of this like second big craft spirits revolution, at least in Australia. So we were the seventh distillery to get a license in South Australia. There's 150 registered now, more than 700
Jez: I was going say, yeah.
Prohibition: right across the country. Yeah, you know, in ah one tiny state. um I think that means there's one every three houses. um but Everyone knows that it's different.
Jez: and
Prohibition: Exactly right. um But, I mean, what what's so exciting is all of a sudden the rule books were thrown out. We didn't have to be purchasing ah fairly classical spirits from large multinational brands anymore.
Prohibition: um The fact that we were able to draw upon like classics from England, interesting like cocktail takes from the US, and then also from our like our own local agriculture, but also our own like native ah produce and flora.
Prohibition: um it's just so It was so exciting. yeah um yeah And it still is. Yeah. mean, we're still discovering new things that haven't used this time. All the time.
Prohibition: All
Jez: So take us from start to finish, a typical day for you guys working at the distillery.
Prohibition: the time.
Jez: ah
Prohibition: Yeah.
Jez: Just because I know gin is such a fast produced spirit, like talking from like, say, steel to bottle in 24 hours in some cases.
Prohibition: Sure.
Prohibition: Yeah, yeah, I mean, that's that's certainly possible. I mean, Adam and i when we say we work in parallel, it's quite literal, right? So the still was right behind us here and Adam's office if we is just right here. yeah.
Prohibition: so um
Jez: standing samples through the window that's all i'm hearing
Prohibition: exactly Exactly right. We need one of those like cats. um
Jez: oh
Prohibition: um i So to ah a still run for us will begin the day before. So we pre-macerate most of our botanicals most of the time.
Prohibition: um We'll steep it in a big alcohol solution of ethanol and water. um And then we'll move it into the still the next day. For ethanol, we use a really, really incredible upcycled um grape spirit from the Barossa Valley. So what i just love this.
Prohibition: um So upcycled winery wastage, so grape mark and grape bleeds that are then fermented for all their residual sugars after the winemaking process turned into vodka.
Prohibition: um So really, really, really sustainable um ah way to source um fermentable sugars and it creates a really, really like beautiful... I often describe the the base spirit as a canvas that we'll then botanically paint on top of.
Prohibition: um ah So we'll steep everything, we'll wait 20 hours, up the steel the next day, heat it up. i And then we'll begin running the still. The still for us has multiple components. We do botanical changeovers throughout the run.
Prohibition: We both pot still and vapor infuse. You can see everything behind us there. You can see our pot.
Jez: Yes, your your pod still, and then I see your ah classic column still as well there. Just make sure my eyesight isn't getting bad.
Prohibition: Yeah, absolutely. No, that's it, you bang on. um So we'll do that. And then while we could proof it down really quickly, we choose to proof it down slowly. So over a number of weeks, we'll let that rest for a number of weeks and then we'll bottle it and then let it rest again for a number of weeks.
Prohibition: it's I find that um gin, but really any spirits, we've dabbled in a little bit of um a little bit of whiskey and some other age stuff. And we see similar things where you know I'm sure people you've heard people talk about bottle shock, um but also spirits get shocked when proofing or just getting agitated too much.
Prohibition: And it might taste really good, might taste really bad, it might taste good, bad. And that line kind of gets smaller and smaller as it kind of edges out towards the middle. So giving ourselves and our customers, like they know when they open a bottle, it's been rested um and it's at as good as it's going to be and it's going to hold there.
Prohibition: yeah Um, many yeah, for many years. Hmm.
Jez: an interesting take on it because I haven't really come across like, say, distilleries slowly proofing things down to like a finer level. Like since I predominantly talk with whiskey distilleries, they're just like everything's coming out at, say, I don't know, 62.5% and they'd be um adding water to that in the bottling stage as opposed to like when you're, I guess, slowly proofing it down to create a ah finer product.
Prohibition: o
Prohibition: Sure. i think interestingly, um there are some i producers, i think it's either Cognac or Armagnac, and they'll age their brandy for 20 years. And over the course of that 20 years, they'll slowly proof it down within the barrel.
Prohibition: um So you just get this really lovely homogenization where you, i mean, your water is integrated with the spirit and it's all aged together. um So I really, yeah, it did meant but I mean, it it is really logical for the highest point of flavor, but it is tougher. Yeah, well, it's barrel that costs a lot of money.
Prohibition: Yeah, course. um
Jez: Don't they?
Prohibition: Yeah. um so And also, i think you know Hugh will talk a lot more to this than I will, but we are always trying to maximise the amount of oil content and therefore the amount of flavour in every gin we make. This is true. You're really cutting close to the wire in terms of as you're diluting, trying not to have the product looshing or clouding.
Prohibition: and So the longer it takes to proof it down, and Hugh will be able to clarify me on this one, um the the less chance of it just going straight to to cloudiness.
Prohibition: um And therefore, we're actually yeah managing to keep more oil than if we just bashed it with water and said, right, that's done. That's very true. That is a really, really good point.
Prohibition: Says the device, you know,
Jez: So how do you guys find keeping that fine balance without sending it too cloudy? Like you said, you is there a period of time you do it Because you said you do it over like a number of days. Is there like, obviously there's a fine art to it.
Prohibition: Depends on the gin, depends on the ABV. It does. It depends on the weather. So if it's if it's if it's colder and the the groundwater is cooler, it we have to proof it down over a ah longer period of time because we really feather that edge because we always...
Prohibition: um began, i i mean, not just this business, but every single product is, any spirit has to taste good by itself. And we speak a lot about martini drinking and that kind of thing.
Prohibition: So oil content being at the absolute maximum, which is the thing that will cause it to loose, is just so paramount. So yeah, it does depend on product to product and weather and all sorts of things.
Prohibition: um But sometimes you just have like, oops, guess we have to wait a while for that to Yeah, yeah, you it so close and then you just have to let it sit and acclimatise for a while. Heat it up.
Prohibition: Yeah, it's is it's been done. Heat the room up to remove the machine.
Jez: um what I might find it back a sec then. you're um So I'll take you back to the juniper. So just in case, I guess, people don't know, how do you typically make gin?
Jez: So I guess if people know...
Prohibition: Sure. Great question.
Jez: It's Juniper, and then you're you're talking about the London Dry style. um From memory, is it 70% for London Dry, or is it 80%?
Prohibition: So, i so
Jez: eighty percent I can't remember what the classification is for London.
Prohibition: So in London Dry in the EU, I believe they don't talk about um percentages. i could be wrong about that, but I believe they speak about predominant juniper flavor or profile.
Prohibition: um
Jez: Yeah.
Prohibition: i Because if you speak about botanic weight just by itself, the way the method of extraction could be so different that would drastically image change. Yeah, exactly.
Prohibition: um So here in Australia, we're not bound by there is those rules that exist in the eu Obviously, we have i spirits regulations surrounding things like whiskey and rum and brandy. And we do for gin as well, but they're much broader. And it basically just refers to ABV.
Prohibition: um It has to be above 37%. So for those who are playing along at home who aren't... who i who don't know, gin is basically a neutral alcohol, so vodka, that has been flavoured with herbs, spices, fruits, with juniper being a really key component. We really try to keep juniper at the forefront ah everything that we do it is by far the most of any botanic that we use by ten times. I'm sure not. Yeah. yeah um about Juniper is sourced from northern Macedonia. I think you'd find lots of distillers in Australia are actually getting juniper from the same place, which is
Prohibition: seems random, but it's not at all random. It's just, it's truly the best place to get it from. um And then, yeah, from there, i mean we're we're building up profiles with things like coriander seed and then root ingredients like angelica root or ginger, or and then we'll balance ah citrus elements where it might be it might be traditional or more more Australian native citrus. And then you've got spice elements. So it's always this balancing element.
Prohibition: Yeah, and so if you have, I suppose, this kind of like baseline of for things to have backbone that makes it recognizable as gin, it doesn't just require juniper, it does require these other kind of structural elements.
Prohibition: And then on top, that's when we get to really have fun and we start adding, i i don't know, weird and wild and wacky things. um We've distilled a crab before.
Prohibition: um
Jez: Can you take us through that and what kind of led you to distill a crab? Like,
Prohibition: i Well, it did I mean, it didn't didn't work out. No.
Jez: no, you're like, otherwise it'd be selling, right?
Prohibition: yeah yeah right
Jez: There's, I'm sure there's a market for it.
Prohibition: it was We were working with a Michelin-guided restaurant in Singapore to produce a custom product for them. um And the national dish of Singapore is chili crab. So we thought we'd... is it Yeah, this kind of like gastronomy um i yeah thing that we tried. It didn't it didn't didn't come together.
Prohibition: um but yeah But even in that, there's so many ways you can attack that. So you can just, when you distill a crab, do you distill a whole crab? Is it raw? Is it cooked? Is it crab meat? Is it crab shell? um So even just in that one instance, there's so many different ways to kind of attack that single, I don't really want to call a crab a botanic, but like, but yeah, it does show how far you can push the,
Prohibition: I guess the flexibility the creativity around what we do. Not everything works. And that's the that's the point. You try new things all the time. um And then we have a library of, of of yeah like we were talking about Australian natives, like there's a thousand Australian natives that are edible but that you can call on.
Prohibition: And a lot of them express flavours that you can't find anywhere else in the world, which is very, very cool.
Jez: How do you guys decide on what kind of makes the cut and what doesn't like from a botanical side of you and then from like an end product?
Prohibition: Well, i it can kind of start um from at two different points. Either you find a a really interesting profile or combination of profiles and you're like, let's build something out towards that. That sounds really interesting. That's something I'd like to drink.
Prohibition: Or we see either a gap in our folio or a gap in the market and we work backwards from there. yeah um But what we'll do with that is if we're going to... i see a gap in the market, we won't just fill it in the most obvious way, we ah we'll always try to again fill it with the most interesting things that are kind of equivalent.
Prohibition: If we want to work within a category, it's trying to find something new and different that hasn't been done within that category. So it's always got a reason to exist, I guess, within our range and within the world of gin.
Prohibition: Exactly right.
Jez: Do you find your ah your customers gravitate more towards certain like botanicals or is it like they enjoy weird and wonderful things you guys are whipping up?
Prohibition: fair mix of customers. I mean, we we've got, you know, 10 plus different gins.
Jez: Yeah.
Prohibition: And when I say different, they're wildly different from each other. um So what I always find interesting is we could do a tasting around this table here with 10 customers and they would pick 10 different gins that they like, you know.
Prohibition: that' That's the interesting thing about gin ah drinking is that everyone has different taste buds. There is no set and forget. So we find that when we do do a tasting with say four people, it's not unusual that all four will pick four different gins that they liked as their favourite. so in that sense, there is no predominant sort of how our customers generally like this or that.
Prohibition: But our customers will sometimes lean towards something that's higher ABV because we tend to do higher ABV well. Yeah, absolutely. Because we know that we can do interesting things with high ABV.
Prohibition: But also, you know, we've we've got... ah gins that lean more towards Australian natives where some customers will drive that direction and others like how, you know, we're drinking our Fieldland Shiraz gin here.
Prohibition: um a lot of people love that gin because you don't even have to technically be a gin lover to enjoy that. Absolutely. Absolutely. um Yeah, Sugar is the great moderator of... um of people's drinking happenss try yeah of course of course you yeah all all fruit sugar but like it is yeah the breadth um of our range is really really distinctive i mean like
Jez: Oh, of course. Yeah.
Prohibition: yeah nothing is really built out of the same product. everything, every product is built from the ground up differently. So every botanical structure differently. So it is, yeah, it is a bit of a, well, it's something that we find important.
Prohibition: Yep, certainly. And then creatively, um you know, the studio is here, so we're often designing a gin based on you know the storytelling from the packaging on one side of this wall and then what goes in the bottle on the other side of the wall. And that's a regular process.
Prohibition: and i mean I think that's something that we're so fortunate in having is like the products as a result feel so cohesive because they're not built they're They're built in the same 10 metres of each other. we don't farm out the the packaging design to to an external agency. It's done in-house and it's done... Yeah, that that design process starts right at the conception of the the spirit itself as well. Yeah, so it is it is very cohesive.
Prohibition: um The other thing I guess worth noting is, you know, we make a range of other spirits. So yes, we're sitting in ah in a room here with whiskey aging, but also um we have, i you know, Hugh's working on
Jez: Beautiful.
Prohibition: say that? Yeah. He's working on an Amaro today, which is a new creative project.
Jez: but Oh, glorious.
Prohibition: So, you know, that that's like, you know, um clean s slate. What would we want the best Amaro in the world to taste like? Let's just go for and make one.
Prohibition: You know, so that's the, I guess, the breadth of creativity that that we sort of get to, who gets to play around with. We all do. Yeah, we all do. Actually, yes, I'd say that like I wasn't in there tasting them But also, you know, we make a range of liqueurs and there's a lot of creativity that you can throw into liqueurs as well these days, right, really sort of exploring what hasn't been done and what's new and what what are the gaps in like that market.
Prohibition: Absolutely, absolutely right. Cool.
Jez: So how are you guys balancing like innovation with ah your current distilling practices? Like when you're creating all these new products?
Prohibition: The folio just keeps getting bigger.
Jez: Cause yeah.
Prohibition: Well, we we actually we find a way to um keep Q working on new and creative things by finding new projects to throw them at, if that makes sense. So you know we've got we're building another one for a client in Singapore now. We're building one for or a couple of other projects that are in the works where it's like, right, here's ah here's a project, let's get a brief.
Prohibition: and create a new product for that yeah and i mean it's it's never tough to balance all these things even though it can be a lot of a lot of like individual moving parts but as the business grows our you know our team grows with it we have a really great supports and like system um built within the business um i mean speaking of one of the really exciting projects we did recently this is something that i fell in love with and i think we all collectively did was we There is a um being this glass artist exhibiting in the Adelaide Botanic Gardens for the last seven months.
Prohibition: There's a studio called Chihuly Studios. They're from Seattle. Massive installment, like 12 shipping containers glass sculptures.
Jez: Whoa.
Prohibition: It was wild. It's huge. So we worked with them and the Adelaide Botanic Gardens to build this kind of like collaborative gin project where these, i all these glass sculptures are like bright and colourful and weird and like... Huge.
Prohibition: Yeah, it was a, yeah, wild, wild pieces of art. um If anyone hasn't seen them, give them a Google. um And then we worked with the horticultural team at the Adelaide Botanic Gardens. So we were able to find...
Prohibition: i plants that don't necessarily have traditional agricultural kind of ways to market. So things that we couldn't but just buy, we'd have to go, we would I'd go in with a cold shopping bag and a pair of secateurs and source these really incredible, like rare, unique plants.
Prohibition: um So i suppose for us balancing is like, well, we could either do that or not do that. And it's like, well, let's do it. Let's do this bit. Let's pick the fun option. And we just keep stacking them on top of each other. Yeah.
Prohibition: and And, you know, building on that, I mean, Dale Chihuly is one of the, or he's one, the boss, world's most renowned glass artist because it's a niche field.
Prohibition: um But um the creativity of Chihuly Studio in Seattle, the team came out here. So we were working with them also on the packaging. It's the first time Chihuly Studio have worked with an alcohol brand to co-brand a product and they're very protective of their brand.
Prohibition: So and even from the packaging side, it was an exciting project to work with a world renowned artist and and create something that they were really happy with.
Jez: amazing
Prohibition: um So yeah, i you know these opportunities don't come around that often, but we're always first to put our hand and say, yeah, we'd love to be part of that. yeah So and creativity, I think, is absolutely part and pass with what we're about.
Jez: I was listening you talk and you're talking about the packaging itself. How important is ah well-designed package to your customers? I know like myself coming from a whiskey background, to consumers love a pretty box to store their whiskey in. They clearly don't want to drink it. They just want to put it on a shelf and just leave it up there, look at it, whatever, as you can clearly see behind me. I obviously don't like drinking, but the They love, like a I guess, a beautiful piece of glass. like i'll I'll see, I'd say, vodka bottles with like glass dragons in the bottom.
Jez: um Would you guys typically lean towards, I guess, something a little bit more ornate when you're picking like ah a bottle if you're working with a particular glass manufacturer or...
Prohibition: when we So we have been working with the same glass manufacturer since we started and they're based in France. They're very good at what they do. lots of spare brands will work with the same manufacturer because there's very few factories in the world that will make glass to the standard that we need.
Jez: That's good.
Prohibition: um But when we set out around designing the packaging, I mean, firstly, like said, I'm i'm a designer, so I'm going to be fairly fussy.
Prohibition: um But also, that's a good thing.
Jez: that's good
Prohibition: um But also, um I think, this notion of looking different when we first ah started creating the product. I remember reaching out to the ATO and saying, right, okay, so just out of interest, how many people are applying for new licenses at the moment?
Prohibition: And the number was 20 and I was shocked and I was like, can't believe it.
Jez: There's no one.
Prohibition: There's going to be 20 more brands coming to the market. So, this packaging is going to have to really stand out on the shelf and really be very different. And so we did. We went way, way out over here.
Jez: Hmm.
Prohibition: So everyone was using the sort of now ubiquitous Oslo bottle. It was a very common way to present gin.
Jez: Hmm.
Prohibition: That's what gin looks like. It's in that bottle. We went completely the other way um because we thought that 20 more brands was going to be a lot of competition.
Prohibition: Yeah. Now, how you know, ah one with wind forward almost 10 years, that's a microcosm of the extra competition out there.
Jez: yeah it's nothing.
Prohibition: you know, there's 50 times that or whatever it is. Yeah.
Jez: Yeah, no, you're there.
Prohibition: ah and
Jez: Yeah.
Prohibition: So um the point being that I guess that differentiation that we had back in 2015 has has kept us looking different ever since, which is important.
Prohibition: um But we are, yeah, we're we're constantly working on evolving the packaging. There is a project in the works now evolving our packaging to be, um yeah, just just to always always looking different and behaving different so that it stands out on the shelf. They say that, you know,
Prohibition: The packaging buys the first product or makes the first sale. So obviously then the juice does the rest. um But it is highly competitive as we know in bottle shops now.
Prohibition: i'm looking at your your back bar.
Jez: Don't worry about mine.
Prohibition: um
Jez: Mine's older.
Prohibition: It is highly competitive. So, um yeah, it's crucial to look different.
Jez: and
Prohibition: And it as a you know branding agency in here as well, we do work for other spirit brands and it's sort of if you don't have a story that sets you apart and you don't have packaging that that stands out on the shelf, gosh, now, like, good luck.
Prohibition: It's a tough month.
Jez: Yeah. ah Especially with like the circling back to the spirits price, it's hard not to mention it. It's like the 2% increases every six months and it becomes a big price war then because you either have to be like the, I guess the cheapest or the best, but people have to try your juice to essentially go, is it going to make it on my shelf?
Prohibition: Yeah, and I mean, we have to acknowledge within that as well that it is not just a tough, you know, you you don't want to be caught in a race at the bottom, you don't want to be caught in the middle of the pack, but it's also, it's a cost of living crisis at the moment.
Jez: Mm,
Jez: well spot on.
Prohibition: so We would be blind to not acknowledge that while being like a odd super premium product. yeah um ah So these are all factors that, and you i think if you begin a spirit brand, really deciding on your lane, and even if you have multiple like,
Prohibition: sub brands or whatever but deciding where they sit and running at that thing like what are the what is the problem that you're trying to solve and we're looking at hyper premium the best quality no compromise in packaging liquid gifting opportunities occasion drinking um rather than the race to the bottom which just doesn't interest us no
Jez: Well, it's it's funny you said you'd like pick one lane and go, well, you pick, I guess, a few lanes and go harder that you said you're making Amaro and you're making whiskey at the moment.
Prohibition: ah Yeah, this is true.
Jez: So that's obviously majority of distillers that want to make whiskey. They typically make gin first. Obviously you guys are a gin forward company now foraying into whiskey. Can you guys touch on your whiskey at all?
Prohibition: Yeah, of course. I mean, for I feel for us, whiskey is it's so it's a passion project, right? um So we are first and foremost Asian brand, but we're also like a premium craft distillery.
Prohibition: So we use super, super high quality barrels. We're 100% palm oil champagne yeast, aging it for as long as it needs.
Jez: Mm-hmm.
Prohibition: Our next release will be about five years old um in lots of different like small format, larger format barrels.
Prohibition: um But it's that's like an expression of what we do, um almost in like an artistic way. But it's not a It's not the the catch-all of the brand.
Prohibition: So it's incredibly limited release. It sits at a high price point because, you know, it is it is very small quantity, but the quality of the product is there.
Jez: Mm-hmm.
Prohibition: um And, know, like to refer to it as like and like an heirloom product for our brand where it sort of sits at... at um very small availability and it is, yeah, it's it's a little self-indulgent but not but not too self-indulgent. I think, you know, our al brand fans love that we make a whisky and they love that it's it is a really quality product and they do, you know, I guess we have a
Prohibition: a very keen particularly our our direct and subscriber audience where they' they they buy a lot of things that we do and they'll fill an entire table with their prohibition products at home um but they they also know that If we're going to release something, it's going to be good.
Prohibition: And that's the that's the trust that we develop by, yeah, there's the afforded to us by if we are going to sit at a particular kind of price bracket and present in a particular way that it all needs to have to deliver on it.
Prohibition: Yeah.
Jez: Well, you guys were saying barrels are expensive. What barrels you guys actually using? Because assume you're doing a barrel-aged gin and then you're doing your whiskey as well.
Prohibition: Sure.
Jez: Mm-hmm.
Prohibition: Yeah. So, I mean, all all sorts. um For our barrel-aged gin, um we use barrels that are ex-Irish or Scotch whisky that then get used in the Barossa um as Shiraz barrels before we take them, turn them into 100-litre barrels, actually. So, yeah, they're bourbon, then they're Scotch, then they're Shiraz, and then we turn them into 100-litre barrels and...
Prohibition: each other living daylights out of them and then age some gin in them for up to four years. ah But we have a stack of really interesting other um barrels like X Chardonnay, X Brandy, X Cognac.
Prohibition: One of my favorites at the moment um is we have one that is an X, like and it's an 80 year old ah port barrel from Sepulchfield.
Prohibition: And a lot of the time with
Jez: Oh.
Prohibition: like Port or Tawny barrels is they'll be kind of seasoned with Port or Tawny, but they don't have the time to sit in there. those' They're really hard to get barrels like that. And there was something really special when we were talking to our Cooper about it and he was like, where did you get this? They do not make barrels like this anymore. And it was this like, it was a special thing to kind of touch on and it feels different.
Prohibition: um it's Yeah. So all all over the place in short. Yeah, but when you're recuperating barrel from 200 litres down to 100 litres, you're putting a lot of love and time and time and attention into each barrel.
Jez: since you guys...
Prohibition: um so But we do that very deliberately for the character that's going to deliver and the timber contact. There's something that I i like to share with people. um So we've used a number of different coopers. Our current cooper is done, well, not our sole current cooper, but one of the cooper that does all of our Shiraz barrels, I'm sure he wouldn't mind me saying, is they don't, so we asked for 100 litre barrels, none of them are 100 litres.
Prohibition: um And I love that because the barrel is just the size that it needs to be to kind of work and fit. together like some of them will be 95 some of them will be 90 some of them will be 105 but they all just but it's it's a touch and feel friendship yeah yeah absolutely um which is something that way is just endearing
Jez: and
Jez: Yeah, of course.
Jez: We'd have to like, cause all those staves are going to be different sizes, right? So, you know, it's definitely not going to be a perfect hundred litres every time.
Prohibition: No, of course. And ah yeah, i wouldn't I wouldn't want it to be. i love just these guys just hanging out with a, i don't know, a planer and just like looking it and being like, just they know how it all goes together. i've tried to um Have you tried to do it before?
Prohibition: It's really hard.
Jez: The closest thing I've done to that is torching a barrel, but like other than that, it's, you know,
Prohibition: yeah Yeah, I know. The actual yeah the timber cartership is yeah it's pretty wild. Yeah. So, yeah, no, that's ah that's sort of, ah i guess, a microcosm of a creative day around here. So we're either designing things that go on the outside of a bottle, um designing the spirit that goes on the inside.
Prohibition: um Then there's, yeah, manufacturing core products. um But we would have probably... five new gins and random like random and like spirits in the works at any given time.
Prohibition: So, yeah, Hugh's sort of some of them will sit and percolate for a while. Others, like the Amaros, yeah, lots of iterations of of different botanicals and how we how we sort of blend that.
Prohibition: um So each of them very different. But, um yeah, I mean, for us the exciting part is having the opportunity to be able to do something new and different.
Jez: Well, have you guys found, because obviously the most exciting thing about, I'd say the last 12 months for me watching you guys is going through a capital raise ah through crowdfunding.
Jez: How did that go? How did you guys land on the decision to raise capital through, i guess, consumers as opposed to going to like a private equity company just to...
Prohibition: yeah
Prohibition: Sure, yeah, look, ah in in in full transparency, we tried multiple different routes and we actually did sort of have private equity there and ready to go. And then you look at the, I guess, what are the strengths of the brand that you've built?
Prohibition: And when we actually sort of started to dig further into the crowdsourced funding model, we realised it's,
Prohibition: It's almost like we didn't know it, but we'd custom built this brand that was perfect for it, if that makes sense. So, you know, we've we've got 15,000 subscriber base, which is now closer eighteen or nineteen thousand subscriber base
Jez: Hmm.
Prohibition: um, and, uh, I say subscribe base database, but we have, um, really rusted on fans and, and, uh, our, our gym subscription membership.
Prohibition: Um, and then we, I guess we, build these relationships with these people either at of the festivals, which we do a lot of. So we really, even Hugh and I really try and get out to lots of the festivals and do lots of face-to-face time with people all over Australia, all over the world.
Prohibition: and um And then, you know, we build a brand that we're really passionate about and we build this follower base. And then, you know, people love our products and they they sort of, like say, they they buy the bottle and they put it on the shelf and they some of them ah don't even crack at because they're just...
Prohibition: They're too in love with the product.
Jez: ah so obsessed with the brand yeah
Prohibition: They're not going to drink it. But then when you say, okay, well, what if we did throw this opportunity open to our fan base?
Prohibition: What would happen? it's ah It's a fair jump off a cliff sort of moment, step off the cliff moment. But we were blown away, even more blown away than we ever expected to be with what what actually then came back in terms of that sport. So...
Prohibition: As soon as we opened the door, we knew we'd done the right thing. um But you really, yeah, you do always second guess yourself in terms of, yes, people might buy the product online and we've got to really, we the market is tougher than it's been in 35 years and that was probably part of the investment thing was tricky. It's tricky to find people with just spare cash lying around that want to throw money into a business these days. So um ah we we knew it was sort of,
Prohibition: tough times to actually sort of ask people to put their hand in their pocket. But um yeah, we with the response was incredible. And we had people calling to thank us for the opportunity to be able to invest.
Prohibition: And we were sort of like, okay, I'm pretty sure it's going to go the other way around.
Jez: Yeah.
Prohibition: yeah yeah But i think I think there's something that you really hit on there, right? It's like there is something really special about the democratisation of, I don't know, something that is like locally endearing. It's like kind of like we're a co-op now. we um and People being able to be like, yeah, I've got a little bit of this little of this little gin brand in Adelaide. um Or come in and, you know, people being like, ah I'm...
Prohibition: part of this owner's thing, and you get a discount and it feels like you're part of something because you are. um And the amount of people that I'm sure you've had as well, but we've had come up to us and be like, hey, I invested in the thing.
Prohibition: And man, it blows me away every time and I get so excited. Yeah, and how excited I am to talk to them. And it's it's it's great. And so we now, as a side benefit of it for us and for everyone involved is we now have 1200 Rand ambassadors out there all across the country.
Prohibition: who are feverishly into prohibition. um And even more keen than they ever have been. So we've had people fly from Singapore to hang out at the bar with us that have invested. We've had people, um you know,
Prohibition: find us at events and yeah so it's it it is really it's exciting for us and it's it's refreshing for us to have that sort of two-way relationship um and i think yeah yeah for us it's that we've we're we're going through a process now where we are um Tomorrow it goes out. We've got i ah a survey that goes out to our our shareholders that that sort of sit in the in sort of a key bracket um for them to design their own gin that becomes sort of their their owner's gin as part of the
Prohibition: the the process so you know that's something that we have done previously with our subscriber base that has been really really successful where you've got a bunch of people that are really passionate about distilling that actually have quite good sort of yeah they their mental skill sets on what they want in a gin and then you amalgamate all of that and we look at it go shit that looks like a great gin And then you make it and then it wins an award in in you know the Australian Distilled Spirit Awards.
Prohibition: Yeah, so the year that we won um the Champion Australian Distiller, at the Australian Distilled Spirit Awards, our highest rated gin was a gin designed by our subscriber base.
Prohibition: And like, how cool is that?
Jez: That's amazing.
Prohibition: That's pretty And then we went on to win for the program of sort of ah laying that out, the process that we took through it. We won at the um World Spirit Awards in London.
Prohibition: We won best campaign campaign marketing off the back of you know that structure.
Jez: no
Prohibition: So, you know, it just it all feeds each other, doesn't it? Like it's yeah. Yeah.
Jez: Well, you guys find yourself diving back into that avenue when you say you touch back on on those like pro subscriber base, if I could phrase it like that, you're investors and you go, hey, um let's come up with an idea for like another gin, say, or like ah a different different spirit or like bottle of cocktail or something along those lines to release to the market.
Prohibition: Yeah, that's absolutely absolutely this the strength of it, right? um To circle back to I mean, part of your original storytelling of Prohibition, if we're bringing people together to give them what they want, why don't we just ask them? There we go.
Prohibition: Yeah. Yeah, it's it really is that that very much that democratisation. um So, ah yeah, look, for us, the crowd fund was wildly successful.
Prohibition: So we raised just over $2.6 million, dollars which for us is just...
Jez: Which is massive money.
Prohibition: queue to be able to do incredible things with so you know it's the it's the old adage of um you have to spend money to make money and the market is tricky out there and there's things that we need to do like expand into sepplesfield we sort of touched on briefly um that's that was a key project within this so you know we've got the funds to do that project properly and we've you know there's export growth and there's a whole sort of sweeter projects that we do off the back of that. But it's it is true democratisation of oh bringing in people to be part of it to be able to do those things, which again, all just sort of works.
Prohibition: Yeah. I think we've frozen for a second.
Jez: Oh, yep.
Prohibition: Are we back?
Jez: Drop that for a sec. we good?
Prohibition: Oh, we're back. Yeah, Awesome.
Jez: No. But you did mention on touching on Sepersfield, how are you guys utilizing this this new location? um Because like you guys are in peak one country, essentially.
Prohibition: Certainly, Yeah, you we're infiltrating. Yeah, exactly. Exactly right.
Jez: Yeah, infiltrating is a great great word for it. I'm all about it.
Prohibition: yeah Infiltrating, but what's funny is that was one of the oldest things um in the Barossa. So, you know, a 150-year-old distillery out there that had been dormant for the better part of the last 60 years.
Prohibition: So we're we're sort of bringing this amazing building back to life. It was ah a ah brandy distillery with like 36,000 litres of brandy tanks under the ground and a 9,000 litre still, which is 10 times the size of this girl.
Jez: Yeah.
Prohibition: So, um yeah, pretty impressive scale thing.
Jez: Huge.
Prohibition: it was like world class at the time they built it. and so Really we're just scratching the surface on what's possible out there. So we've moved a big chunk of our sort of production from bottling through to packaging, dispatched, warehouse packaging there.
Jez: Mm.
Prohibition: And that's still barely making a dent on this building. So then we've got a whole customer sort of space that we're building out. so And that's again, that's one of the really exciting things that we will be able to invest into because the bones of this building are absolutely incredible, like high ceilings, stone walls.
Prohibition: um Yeah, big, beautiful 9000 litre still in the middle of the room. you throw like Incredible, like big Oregon timber beams like the structure is yeah really, really solid. So it's solid bones, which is nice.
Prohibition: Yeah. But it's also Yes, it's just a beautiful space, which is nice. what What I think I like the most about it is we Because we've we we've we've done a pop-up set up up there. It's been running as a pop-up for... months....since October. Yeah, so... But we do...
Jez: Real long pop-up. Yeah, I got you
Prohibition: yeah Yeah. But it's good to live through the seasons as well because it's sort of like, you know, they say you buy a house, don't renovate it straight away, like live in it until you know what you're dealing with and then renovate it.
Jez: you. Hmm.
Prohibition: So we're very much doing that. we've haven't been through a year yet, but we're just getting into the cool cool of winter. But, um i you know, we ostensibly we do the same thing up there. So we're doing gin flights, but a gin flight there feels completely different to a gin flight here in the city.
Prohibition: um It's just that, you know, it shows the external influence has such a um an effect on on how you're experiencing something. So it feels more relaxed and it feels more...
Prohibition: i Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, there's gorgeous lawn area because the sepulch field, palm trees everywhere. um And it's yeah it's quiet and yeah wildlife and it's just beautiful.
Jez: how you're describing this building to me, like screams peak prohibition. Like we're talking 150 years ago, a distillery in the middle of essentially nowhere.
Jez: And it's like producing a spirit and I guess the giant beams. I assume it's a big brick building, right?
Prohibition: So it's part stone and part galvanised iron.
Jez: it
Prohibition: So i'd see it it's the two.
Jez: That's ah let's even better. What are you? Yeah.
Prohibition: Yeah, so the biggest part of the structure is galvanised iron and it has this amazing two, almost three storey high stone sort of central sort of pillar of the building.
Jez: Mm-hmm.
Prohibition: um And there's spaces up there that have incredible potential, like to two storey ceiling height, really open, It feels like you're in a kit yeah you're in a cathedral, but it's actually where a condenser column was. it's it It's really amazing. and the And the fact that the still is still intact, it's, I believe, the second oldest still intact, um you know, distillery in Australia. So I think it was Beanley was built before this one.
Prohibition: Yeah.
Jez: Oh, wow. Okay.
Prohibition: Any others that were around that age have all been long since destroyed. So, yeah, it's proper history, which is cool.
Jez: It's crazy that you guys were able to obtain that piece of Australian history.
Prohibition: ah Well, that that was the thing. I mean, we were literally looking for a production space, a shed, essentially.
Jez: Hmm.
Prohibition: And it wasn't until till we mentioned to the guys at Sevens Hood, oh, we're looking for a shed. They're like, oh, we've got that old distillery that just fits out of the property and no one goes to. um So, yeah, you wander in, you go, oh,
Prohibition: Yeah, and and and hats off to the guys at Sepplesfield as well who have, like, I mean, we had to put on a new roof and stuff.
Jez: Yeah.
Prohibition: um And so, yeah we've done yeah, they've done some hard yards for us and they're wicked to work with. um So certainly worth checking checking that out. when you I hope you come to Adelaide and get to visit the Jazz.
Jez: Oh, yeah. i'll I'll absolutely make the trip down. I'd like any excuse to make a trip to Adelaide.
Prohibition: Yeah.
Jez: We do call it Radelaide for a reason.
Prohibition: Awesome.
Jez: So like...
Prohibition: right Yes, absolutely. We still
Jez: ah Was there any brandy kicking around in this old distillery? I'm i'm sure it would have been harvested, but if there's these...
Prohibition: So there was hundreds and hundreds of bottles floating around in various states in this building and none of them were in a good state. Yeah. and
Jez: would have been incredible.
Prohibition: Underneath is this cellar that is still inhabited by more spiders than bottles.
Jez: Ooh, not good.
Prohibition: opened the door, looked at it and then closed the door. Yeah, yeah. That needs to stay.
Jez: The Chamber of Secrets or something.
Prohibition: I'm just wearing this now. But um it's pretty, yeah, it's pretty spectacular. It's pretty amazing stuff in there. So um Brandy, no. um Lots of wine.
Prohibition: lots lots so Lots of bottles of wine.
Jez: no
Prohibition: Yeah, i Yeah, the it smelled quite like vinegar. And the local chef is aging jamon in one of the underground, what do we call these things?
Jez: Ooh.
Prohibition: Cellars?
Jez: sounds like catacombs.
Prohibition: Yeah, it's a cellar full of aging. It's pretty scary, if you don't know that, to wander into that room. There's a big leg on a hook hanging from the ceiling.
Prohibition: Yeah, yeah.
Jez: Yeah. You're like, what is going on in here?
Prohibition: yeah That's pretty amazing, I'm on that.
Jez: It's a ah dungeon. That's a no. Gents, might wrap you guys up there, but before i before we dip out of here, you guys able to help me out with a couple of questions I have for you?
Prohibition: Let's do it. Please.
Jez: All right. Where is, well actually, sorry, what is one of the weirdest gins you've ever tasted?
Prohibition: Oh, that is good question. um
Jez: I bring only my best questions. That's...
Prohibition: um It doesn't taste that weird, but it was a strange thing to be to get to be able to try.
Jez: you
Prohibition: um At Atlas Bar in Singapore, they have i like historic gin. So you might be able to have a not a martini from 1925. So they'll have vermouth and Gordon's for that is 100 old.
Jez: I'm a huge fan of that.
Prohibition: ah
Jez: Let's go.
Prohibition: Yeah, so I mean, not just as a, yeah, for sure. But like that as as a as a thing and seeing what has changed, seeing what hasn't changed, as opposed to a crazy botanic, I think that's ah an interesting piece.
Jez: oh
Prohibition: Yeah, yeah. um Gosh, so many gins, so many. I always found anti-gin was a weird one. So I know we make green ant gin and that's really pasty, but I've always found anti-gin just that really weird.
Prohibition: so Who made that? It's made by Cambridge, I reckon. Is that the pheromone one? No, that's a different one, I think.
Jez: See, that sounds weird enough as it is.
Prohibition: ah Yeah, there's definitely black ants in the pool, but you know you taste it and you go, yeah, I'm not sure that I'm on board with ants.
Jez: I'm like, pheromone gin. Yeah.
Prohibition: particular ants, I mean, you know we've got tasty ants. These are not so tasty ants. Yeah, right. Anyway, there you go. But yeah, lo i think I think that's the thing. There's so many weird and wonderful things that people are doing, which is...
Jez: as you said, it's just constantly pushing that boundary of like trying like crab, right?
Prohibition: It is.
Jez: Who'd be making steam crab gin?
Prohibition: yeah Yeah.
Jez: That's not my top five gins, but
Prohibition: Yeah. But it does come back to my other rule, which is just because you can doesn't mean you should. That's
Jez: yeah, that's spot on, spot on. Your go-to gin cocktail.
Prohibition: I mean, a martini or a gimla. Actually, I take that all back and a groni. And a groni.
Jez: Oh, I was going to make a Negroni tonight because I'm a big Bovardier fan and I was like, I i got gin, but I ended up going the classic gin and juice because I was like Death Row Records.
Prohibition: It's crazy.
Jez: Yeah.
Prohibition: Yeah, OG, man. love that.
Jez: yeah
Prohibition: I am such a sucker for a gimlet, anyone that knows me. that yeah So our Navy Strength gin was was secretly very, very geared towards the perfect gimlet.
Prohibition: So, yeah, no, it's gimlet for me all the way. But, yeah, martini, a good martini, it's very hard to beat. Atlas makes bloody good martini.
Jez: and
Prohibition: That's true. Yeah.
Jez: Prohibition Gin's best cocktail. What do you guys think it is?
Prohibition: I think that would be hard to go past. Gin of Paris Martini. of Paris Martini. um So this gin for us has been our most awarded and watered gin. We've just picked up Double Gold and San Fran for the second year in a row with it. Australia's best gin at the world.
Prohibition: uh london australia's best london dry at the world spirits awards last year three years in a row the world australian spirit awards best best gin um just it is so balanced and then once you move it into a martini life yeah life just makes sense yeah um but rich oil content 47 which is punchy for a martini but it's just it's destined for yeah certainly
Jez: And final question, if you guys could share a delicious pour of your Navy strength gin with a historical figure, who would it be?
Prohibition: Oh, that is great that is a great question. oh. Hmm.
Jez: As I said, I'm bringing my A game. Can't word.
Prohibition: again? Uh...
Jez: Hemingway.
Prohibition: a Hemingway. ah That is a superb answer, Mr. Carpenter. I've hung out at his house. and Have you really? Florida Keys. Yeah, how fun. spot Yeah, I love that. I love that.
Prohibition: um I would love to hang out. Oh, there's so many interesting historical figures, but a lot of them I don't want to hang out with. are ah
Jez: That would probably be the reason. Yeah.
Prohibition: Yeah. yeah Dude, I could pretty happily smash a Navy Strength with Jimi Hendrix. Oh. Yeah.
Jez: Oh, now we're cooking. I'm all about it. Well, Adam, Q, thank you guys so much for hanging out with me tonight.
Prohibition: was
Prohibition: um and no Thanks for having us on.
Jez: We're grateful.
Prohibition: We really appreciate it. Let's stay in touch.
Jez: Oh, absolutely. I 100% will. Do you gents want to plug your socials and everything else prohibition related?
Prohibition: At Prohibition Liquor, pretty easy. um so And yeah, look us up at a festival around Australia. we where we can't we can't we Yeah, we're constantly touring. We're like Taylor Swift like that. you guys do ever come to Adelaide, um we are in the CBD. We're on the tram line. We're 10 minutes from the airport. Come and hang out with you and Mary doing her thing over here.
Prohibition: Absolutely. Absolutely. Awesome.
Jez: I'm hearing it now. It's Prohibition Liquor, the Errors Tour.
Prohibition: Yeah.
Jez: There we go.
Prohibition: With or without crap.
Jez: Thank you so much for hanging out. I do appreciate it. Hopefully you guys enjoy the rest of your night. um And, yeah, that's, you know what?
Prohibition: Thanks for having us.
Jez: Cheers to that. You guys are welcome.
Prohibition: Cheers.
Jez: Thank you.
Prohibition: All the best. Thanks, Jess.
Jez: you, guys.
Prohibition: Bye.
