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Balancing the Future Ep. 12 - The Power of Company Culture with Rachael Gibson
214 Plays12 days ago
This week, host Christopher Mitchell sits down with Chief Diversity, Equity, & Inclusion Officer at Crowe, Rachael Gibson. She shares her perspective on the importance of living out a company culture that emulates trust and community, as well as the impact that mentorship can have on attracting, retaining, and growing internal talent. Learn from her experience in building organizational programs from the ground-up, which advance team members’ skills and ability to step into leadership positions.
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Transcript
Celebrating Black History Month
00:00:09
Speaker
Welcome to Black History Month. We're excited to celebrate the incredible achievements and contributions of the Black community throughout history. This month is dedicated to honoring the trailblazers, innovators, and leaders who have shaped our world, profession, and continue to inspire us today. This podcast is a wonderful opportunity to acknowledge the unique contributions of Black colleagues in our collective profession and shared journey. Thank you for being a part of this special podcast. Let's honor the past, embrace the present, and inspire the future together. Happy Black History Month.
Rachel Gibson and DEI Movement
00:00:48
Speaker
Welcome to another conversation on balancing the future. I am excited to have Rachel Gibson, Chief Diversity Officer at Crow with us today. Rachel is definitely one of the the shining stars out there as it relates to the DEI movement.
00:01:03
Speaker
I personally have experienced stuff that has gone on at Crow and it's an outstanding organization. Nothing but good people over there. So Rachel, I'm excited to have you here today because I like talking about culture. I like talking about people. I think it's highly important, but I also know that.
Changing Perceptions of DEI
00:01:21
Speaker
The wind is kind of shifting a bit as it relates to diversity, equity equity and inclusion. And for some folks, that's a bad word. OK, bad word in the sense of I don't think they understand the growth and kind of where it's going. So I've highlighted that you're the CDO, but I know there's something I miss. I know I don't have it all. So I'm going to turn it over to you to share with the audience who you are and and give them a different flair as to, you know, where you're headed.
00:01:45
Speaker
Thanks, Chris. And thank you for inviting me. I'm happy to be here. So I'll i'll share a little bit about my role at Crow and what got me to my roleout role at Crow,
Rachel's Role at Crow: DEI, ESG, and Business Development
00:01:57
Speaker
right? so um I'm the Chief Diversity Officer, as you mentioned. I also lead our Crow Foundation and everything that we're doing around ESG and pretty much the impact that Crow is having outside of our walls. So a lot of that body of work falls kind of in my my bucket area. And in addition to that, I
00:02:25
Speaker
partner with our colleagues across the firm on a host of different things, whether it be around business development, educating clients on specific topics, for instance, topics related to the intersection of AI and bias and all the things. So I ah play a um kind of a number of hats that I'm wearing at Creole, which makes the position really nice and exciting. In terms of my background, so I'm really a management consultant by trade. So majority of my career was in a management consulting arena, specifically on issues of change management, leader development, um transition management, but all of that was
00:03:15
Speaker
um kind of at that intersection of all those topics and equity. And I specifically say equity because it has always been about ensuring that um we whether it be we democratize access to opportunities within an organization or we are looking at issues around pipeline for for people of color in an organization or managing change when their new diverse talent that comes into an organization. So it's always been at that that um intersection of leadership, change management, et cetera, and equity.
Shifts in DEI Discourse since 2020
00:03:59
Speaker
So when I think about the landscape of diversity and I think about inclusivity and that evolution since 2020, because I know a lot's happened over the period of time. What do you think about that shift? I understand that the drive for talent and in this profession and we need people, we need accountants. So what do you think about that shift? And I know that's a hard one to start with, but probably not. Not for you. ah So what do you, what do you think about that shift?
00:04:26
Speaker
I know you said you mean the shift in terms of people's perception or buy-in to DEI. I think when DEI probably four years ago was a little different than what folks see it today. And yeah you know there's there's a reason for that shift and some have moved and called it wellness, some have moved and called it belonging. So what do you think about all of that?
00:04:52
Speaker
so So I'll tell you a little bit from kind of the Crow landscape and why the question is probably a little bit more difficult for me to answer. um I mean, and you know this because of your history at Crow, Crow had been on this journey way before 2020, right? And so I took this role knowing that.
00:05:11
Speaker
Because for anybody who's been in this work, we know there are always shifts, there are always ups and downs. Whenever there is a um kind of a movement or an uprising, we know what will come next, right? So I think for, there is I don't think there's a DEI practitioner on this planet who did not expect um that there would be this now noise around the impact and noise around whether or not this work should even exist within organizations.
Business Imperatives for Diversity
00:05:40
Speaker
So putting that aside,
00:05:43
Speaker
For us, we have we understand the business imperative. and And the reason there is that understanding is that we're constantly having to remind and share that you know we know that by 2045, between 2045 and 2050, majority of this country will be what we now call racial minorities, right? We know that. um We know that our candidates who are coming into our firm quite frankly, couldn't care less about the noise around the EI. They are demanding that they enter a firm that is diverse, they're entering a firm that is inclusive. um Our stakeholders, um i.e. our clients, have not reduced
00:06:32
Speaker
the questions that they have been asking us, whether it be in RFPs, whether it be around just the makeup of their engagement team, their demand in that they see the diversity within our firm. So so regardless of what may be happening, whether it be in the political landscape or what may be happening just with other companies, it our stakeholders, clients, candidates, people within our firm are reminding us every day what really matters, which is that we are a diverse and inclusive firm.
Crow's Broad Tent Approach to DEI
00:07:12
Speaker
The other thing I would say, however, is a lot of the backlash her around DEI externally has been about race um and
00:07:25
Speaker
And we know why that is, right? it It has been about race, but our efforts at Corona, I would say for for many other firms, many other companies,
00:07:36
Speaker
is a broader tent. It's a very broad tent. It's about all of us at those intersections. You know, it's about people with disabilities or LGBTQ plus communities, right? Um, or caregivers, like there's so many intersections. Race is incredibly critical to all of those, but it's a broad tent. And so when we talk about removing investments in DEI, I am not sure people know what that, the impact of that, right? When we know that people with disabilities is the largest minority group. When you and when you disinvest in DEI, you are essentially obliterating the impact that you could have for people with seen and unseen disabilities, right? So I think for me, I try my best for my own sanity and for my own heart to,
00:08:36
Speaker
to to be aware of the external pressures, but also to keep our firm committed to the course.
Crow's Culture and DEI Facilitation
00:08:46
Speaker
And that is through data, that is through constant reiteration of why this work is important. That is also through more and more ambassadors of this work. It cannot be sold in my voice. So it's it's hard, and I don't know if I'm answering your question, but that's how I am trying to navigate it at Crow.
00:09:07
Speaker
You know, when I think about Crow and I think about culture and I think about some of the first folks to do it, obviously I'll point to some of the big four and say, well, you've been doing it a lot longer, but I want to talk about intentionality. When I talk about infrastructure, when I talk about leadership stepping up and you hear the echoes throughout the walls of Crow, ah i mean you' you're just different. What is, why is that secret sauce the way it is? Why, what, where does that come from?
00:09:32
Speaker
Chris, I am I have been here. It is now two years and a week. And there is not a week that goes by that I do not ask myself that question around just how did we get this culture that we have? It is a remarkable culture. And and for your audience, I'll i'll kind of try my best to explain it and I don't think I'll ever do it justice. um It is a culture where the values are, it's kind of, it's brought up in every conversation, right? It is a culture where, so the values are care, trust, courage and stewardship. I have never worked anywhere where everyone knows the values.
00:10:29
Speaker
Everyone speaks about the values. um Clients see the values at work in in clients' engagements, and it it permeates the DNA of the organization. And so because of that, this work around diversity, equity, and inclusion, it's It's like in like very fertile soil, right? It doesn't mean it's easy. It is hard and I, you know, I have my struggles like everybody, but everybody's starting from the same basic understanding that this work takes incredible courage.
00:11:14
Speaker
but that we're here to be stewards you know of this work and and have impact on the next generation and that we have to care for one another in the firm regardless, right? And that is um built on a place of trust.
00:11:33
Speaker
And so it's it's this culture where values are not just on the wall. In fact, I don't ever see them on the wall, but we we hear are people living the values all the time. Now, does it mean that I don't have to make tough decisions around um what we budget for as it relates to DEI or not? Of course, it's a business imperative and I have to make business decisions like any other business imperative in our firm But being able to make tough decisions and knowing that the leaders I work with I trust and because they care about our people, it it it's its just feels better. right it's I don't want to say it's easier, but it but kind of is because I know where we're all coming from. um I think there's a part of the fact that the firm grew
00:12:28
Speaker
um the way the firm grew, and I won't go into all the details of how the firm grew, but I think the way in which it has grown over the past eight years have helped the culture permeate through different geographies. So what I have found is regardless of what office I visit at Crow, it is the same people experience. That's what I'm hearing. and That's what I hear from our people. And I spent the past two years visiting a number of our offices. And so it's this consistent people experience. And I think that has to do with the way it has grown.
00:13:06
Speaker
Awesome. you know When i you tossed out the business of DEI and the complexities involved, I think for the an organization that doesn't fully understand how developed your programs are, and I've been very successful in implementing even more, what is the business of DEI really look like when we think about larger organizations like Akro, but we also think about smaller organizations. Can they do? what What is your recommendation? I know strategically and tactically you've been very successful. Share some of that with
Data-Driven DEI Strategies
00:13:40
Speaker
the audience. Yeah. So, so everyone will, everybody knows you have to have a ah kind of a strategy behind it. And like everybody else, we have our strategy. We have um pillars around our people, our own kind of the community impact, et cetera, et cetera. But I'll tell you that the crux of it all is data.
00:13:58
Speaker
yeah look yeah It is impossible to drive a business imperative without understanding the data. And so um my team, ah as well as everybody else across scroll, will know I am incredibly data driven. It is easy to assume that this work is only hard work that we just lead by gut.
00:14:21
Speaker
um
00:14:24
Speaker
As I said, DEI is a broad tent. My gut doesn't give me all the answers for everything I'm trying to impact here. So so i you know we we have to have data. So regardless of size or complexity or even maturity of DEI processes and and programs, it everything has to be our own data. So knowing your data, if you are in your infancy, it's about just, even if it's just the basic demographic data,
00:14:54
Speaker
around numbers, percentages, you know gender, all all that just basic at the very least using your HR systems to be able to know where you are at. um Even if you're a 15 person organization,
00:15:14
Speaker
you know focus groups talking to your people, regardless of of what happens, your strategy has to be built on data. When I came to CRWRL, the first thing I looked at was our data, and then I disaggregated our data. Because here's the thing. um Many organizations, particularly when they're looking at gender data, will look at, well, this is the percentage of women. This is the experience of women. Well, we know that also Black women have certain
00:15:48
Speaker
um experiences in organizations. And we know that caregivers have certain experiences, etc, etc. And so i I disaggregated the data and got some really amazing um information and the data was both our demographic data as well as our pulse surveys or or everything that we're doing around um inclusion and and surveying our people.
00:16:14
Speaker
And through that, learned what that that Crow was pretty much like maybe any major organization or even small organization around um how our black and brown women were feeling in the firm and Being able to disaggregate that data, we were then able to do targeted programming. So the past year and a half, we did some really great targeted programming for our women. And we saw that engagement scores for a Black and Hispanic women increased between 10 and 18 points, depending on the the the demographic. It was mind-blowing.
00:16:58
Speaker
And people will say, oh, what was that program? Send me the curriculum. What it really was the crux of it was leaning into those women, convening them, hearing their questions in certain situations, connecting them to mentors, um having them feel seen and heard. And that really you know shifted things.
00:17:22
Speaker
And so that's just one example. We also um looked at some of our, you know, well, I didn't, but our amazing benefits team looked at some when they were doing their assessment of benefits, our caregivers BRG connected with them and, you know, helped to reshape or caregiving policies and all of these things. Well, all of this is all based on data, you know, whatever the data phone, not just data iPhone from the DIA lens, but other colleagues across the talent organization and kind of leaning into a diverse or diverse people to help solve business issues and problems. Right. and And so when I think through the business imperative, it is, yes, looking at the data, but also those who are impacted
00:18:17
Speaker
bring them along into the conversation to help to solve some of what our firm's you know challenges are. and And so we've seen some successes, many successes over the past year and a half by kind of looking at this work through that business imperative lens and kind of using you know leveraging the voices for greater impact.
Building DEI Success through Partnerships
00:18:43
Speaker
You know, one thing I when it comes to public accounting and and the actual uniqueness of it is it's a partnership. OK, not like a traditional business. And people look at that because they think, well, you know, the the board does this not and it works. And and the reason I bring that up is the complexity of it. OK, how are you successful in that? Because I know leadership in being a part of the equation and moving the needle as it relates to diversity and sensitivity.
00:19:10
Speaker
How have you been so successful? Because that that is that's hard. That is, I will say, anybody, anyone in my role in doing this work in professional services, different beast. So here is what I have done um that I have kind of fallen to be a good secret sauce is I take, you know, we're a partnership, what 600 or so partners, right?
00:19:38
Speaker
So I take that word partnership incredibly serious. So what that means is lots of relationship building. So I have gotten to know our partners. I mean, these are 600 or so owners off this firm, right? I can't be moving ahead of them if they're
00:20:02
Speaker
So that partnership that I have with many and many and many of our partners, that's really been the key, I would say, to to the successes that we've had around DEI. Notice I did not save my success because again, it goes back to we are a partnership. It is our success. So when I started, my first year was just getting to know people.
00:20:32
Speaker
Um, it was a lot of, who else do I need to talk to? Give me five names. Who else? What's next? We are organized by business units, whoever, tax business unit, audit, consultant, and our enterprise units. And each person I spoke to, I said,
00:20:50
Speaker
Who else do I need to speak to? And sometimes it was who are the influencers in our group. And sometimes that's a partner. Sometimes that's not because your influencers, you know, who are the people when you're not in that room will still drive this message hard. And I just built relationships. The other thing, um, because my background is so broad, I have made it very clear to everyone, not just our partners, but everyone that I am here to serve. How can I serve and support your work? Ultimately, we want to be a profitable firm. We want to be an employer of choice um for those coming into the firm and for those already in the firm. What can I do to help drive that? And sometimes that is,
00:21:43
Speaker
I can be on a potential client call. I can be at a university helping to recruit at whatever I need to do. um And they've taken me up on that. And so I think some of it is if you enter into this work with humility, with grace, with understanding you do not know everything,
00:22:10
Speaker
People will leverage your skill sets. They will realize you're a partner in this work together. And and that's been incredibly helpful. It's also quite frankly helped my job be way more interesting because I get to learn about things like on claim property and internal audit and all these things I did not even know existed but I'm being asked to attend these conferences and speak on panels and go to you know tax so executive institute conferences and I'm learning right and I'm i'm engaged and so
00:22:53
Speaker
So in a public accounting firm or any kind of professional services firm, for for those of us in this role, if you're fighting your partners, forget it. It won't work. It won't work.
00:23:08
Speaker
You know, when I think about all of the volunteers that come alongside and the resource groups and all these other hands that have, you know, something to do with success, it's released to diversity, equity, inclusion.
Building Diverse Networks for Career Growth
00:23:22
Speaker
How do you rally the troops? How do you keep them focused and and motivated and moving according to the plan's agenda for for diversity? How do you do that? Yeah, it's hard. If you asked me that question a year ago, I'd probably have a way more intelligent answer.
00:23:39
Speaker
Here is my thing. So I have very early on, I set a strategy that was broad enough that people could get excited about and that people could see they have a role to play in it, right?
00:23:55
Speaker
um And did not include a ton of bureaucracy. So part of that strategy, I'll give you an example, is we know that um
00:24:10
Speaker
for some of us and i i can and I can speak to, I'm a black woman, so I can speak to the experiences of black and brown people. And so I'm gonna, you know, so so one of the things I do know about even just me as a black woman um and others, our networks may not be as vast as others, right, who may not identify, let's say, as a ah Black woman. And so when you're in a professional services firm and you're, you know, to move up the ranks, you have to do business development. You have to to to do that well. You have to have a broad base of networks, whether it be networks internally or externally.
00:25:00
Speaker
to really climb that rack, right? Well, if you're a manager and you haven't started to cultivate those networks, how will you ever get there in this profession the way it is structured? It is hard, you know this, right? Oh yeah.
00:25:18
Speaker
oh yeah So when we're talking about wanting to diversify the partner group, we cannot ignore the fact that to do that we have to ensure that our diverse folks or racially diverse folks have the kind of networks that will help to build their careers. And a DEI strategy without that in mind to me is superficial.
00:25:45
Speaker
So one piece of our strategy is to do just that, is to help our managers or senior managers or even staff and senior staff start to build some professional network, start to build their own business acumen, start to lead in communities, represent a firm that they love and adore, and put all of that together.
00:26:13
Speaker
And the way we did that was to invest in our local NABAA chapters, na National Association of Black Accountants, our Alpha chapters, our Ascend chapters. What we said is we will sponsor and and invest in those chapters so that our people can be active and engage in these organizations that are partners of ours in this work.
00:26:38
Speaker
but also it gives them the leadership acumen. They get to be on the boards. I mean, you know, all of this day. It really builds in so many amazing ways. So what we said was I said, look, I will, you know, I'll, I'll open up these doors. We'll as a firm and our leadership bottom, we will invest in these local chapters. It also helps to build crows visibility and name.
00:27:06
Speaker
And you have to lead in those chapters. And we just says, who's interested? Raise your hand. And they just raise their hand. People just raise their hand. There was no vetting process. There was no application fee. They just did it. And we're seeing our people shine. Awesome. They're shining. They're learning some key skills, public speaking. um I mean, you name it, right? So they're engaged. They're excited, whatever, right? And so on.
00:27:35
Speaker
One thing to always, you know, as as that network grows is, okay, we need them to remember why they're there, right? like think They're there to build their networks and to do all the things. And so one of the things I'm trying to think through is how do we ensure that all these people who are in the community being engaged with amazing things that they're, that they're pulling from all those experiences and bringing it back to cruel and right thrive in.
00:28:02
Speaker
still trying to figure that out. Right. And so I think sometimes, you know, I know you asked me, like, how do I keep everybody engaged? But I think they're one group of people that we're trying to say, like, remember, remember the goal here. Right. The goal is to build your career and and and just keeping them close to us, giving them that mentorship, giving them that support, letting them know we believe in you. Right. There's this always checking in on those folks to make sure that the goal is never lost, that it is about their personal and professional growth. And that's why they're because chapter work is hard. It is hard and having them say this is a part of the learning process, stick with it, all the things. So I just think it's a work in progress in terms of keeping everybody still aligned to that, that core purpose.
00:28:56
Speaker
You know, when I think about inclusion and I start thinking about a formula in the programs and the tools that come into play, you know, training, when I think about how we receive folks into an organization, when I think about, um, you know, how we help them, whether it's a coach or a mentor or a sponsor, is there anything that you can point to one or two things that you can point to the say, yeah, that's it.
Mentorship and Personal Development
00:29:20
Speaker
Or is it a combination of things that you think are out there that are helping drive that success at Crow?
00:29:25
Speaker
Yeah, it's a it's a combination of things. I don't think it's never just one. It's never just a mentor because sometimes that mentor is not in the room when decisions are being made about promotions. So you need to have that sponsor in the room. Right. um I think some of it is also the personal work that you need to do. um You know, I said to people on time, yeah, as you go up more and more, you're going to be that lonely person in the room, which itself is is hard, burdensome, challenging, something that you've worked for all your career and now you're there and you're the only one.
00:30:03
Speaker
When you get there, that's going to require a different set of skills and supports and personal board members to help you through it, as well as your own personal work. So I think it's a combination of things, Chris. I don't think mentors are better than sponsors. I think sometimes you just need a good old friend that works.
00:30:21
Speaker
but right but i think because I think a good old friend is that person you can pick up the phone and say like oh my gosh and then two um so I would say everybody should have a little bit of everything um so a friend of both of ours Janine Brown um she in she has a book and I'm here like pitching Janine's book unstuck and unstoppable but That was the first book I read um that talked about the personal board of directors, you know, the the five or so people who can help guide your career. And so that's that's advice I always pass on because I think that um helps you zoom out and realize that you don't
00:31:09
Speaker
It's more than just that one relationship. um And I think sometimes we are over reliant on that one mentor, um rather than thinking through the five or six people that we need to to support us and to guide us as we and to challenge us as we kind of elevate in our careers.
00:31:31
Speaker
You know, when I think about, um, the secret sauce for success and they think about, I know you have very tactful and strategic and how you go about it with KPIs and so forth. What does it look like for a crow? And you don't, know yeah maybe it's not crow, but what does it look like to be successful as it relates to five years from now? Because I know we we try and put it on a timeline, but it's hard to do that. And a lot of folks don't understand how difficult it is, but what does success look like in your mind?
Defining Success in DEI
00:32:00
Speaker
And your difference relates to DEI. Yeah, we're we're trying to solve a 400-year problem, right? So it so success is is that is a long game. I think success is based on what you set out to accomplish, right? That's not one size fits all. So one order of One part of success for us at Crow was ensuring that our business resource groups, that they were actually helping to drive some of our firm's business imperative. We're seeing some of them do that. That to me is success, because that shows that when you have diverse voices at the table, you can actually make amazing
00:32:50
Speaker
decisions. So we've seen examples of that. Other areas of success is the pipeline and seeing more diversity in those leadership seats at the partner table, right? we We want to see that. That's important. That's a very um critical aspect of success for us as well.
00:33:15
Speaker
So I think, you know, for other organizations, it goes back to looking at your data and where is your, where is your biggest pain point? And you're going to have 10 pain points. But what are the top two that you can just like keep steady at for two, three, four years?
00:33:35
Speaker
Because if you try to do everything, and and I think that's some of our challenge, right? Like as DEI practitioners, we want to do it all. We will never have the capacity to do it all. So you have to kind of pick the areas where you feel are the biggest pain points that could drive the biggest impact.
00:33:59
Speaker
I would say the other very critical um piece of work that we're now engaging in in, and I would love to see in three years um us be a leader in this work is around disability inclusion for both, for those with apparent and non-apparent disabilities, so from processes, policies, we are driving towards Accessibility, we're moving beyond just accommodations um towards accessibility, and that is a key KPI um for us right now. so So I think it just depends on on where people's pain points are.
Importance of Diverse Voices in Decision-Making
00:34:42
Speaker
you know When I think about, and it this is probably my last question, so so you can take a breath. um When I think about seat at the table, and you just mentioned this, and the importance of it, and when I was really all in when it came when it came to a DEI,
00:35:01
Speaker
It was really important for me, for others, oh well really for others to understand the importance of having different folks at the table. So when I say that, and okay, what does it mean for you? Because I've asked others that question on the show and they have a different answer for me. But what does it mean for you when I say seat at the table and how important it is? So when I think about seat at the table,
00:35:27
Speaker
You know, I think about the the tables where true decisions are being made, right? Where we're talking about the decisions that have major implications around kind of the success of our firm. So I don't mean kind of superficial seat at the table, right? So I mean voice at the table.
00:35:57
Speaker
That's good. Right. And let's be honest, those are many tables across a ah firm like ours. It's not just senior leadership team management. You know, it's it's all the things, right? And so that's that's what I mean when I when i think seed at the table. It's tables where we're decisions are made around kind of strategic business, solving business problems.
00:36:29
Speaker
You know, when I, when I think about seated at the table and I think about the opportunity and I think about how complicated public accounting is to be a partner at a firm is a tremendous takes a tremendous effort. And you reference network and you referenced, you know, just being a phenomenal technician and being able to lead and manage people. There's a lot that goes with that. And what I want, you know, this audience to to understand as well is that being a partner is tough.
00:36:58
Speaker
It is an incredible task. yeah So if you're thinking about the profession, it's not always, not everyone's a partner. And I'm going to put that out there. It is a small group within the firm that's a partner, but it takes many people to make a firm successful. And that's what I want the audience to know because we think about public accounting. And if I'm not part of a partner, I'm not successful.
00:37:20
Speaker
there's so many things that you can do in order to be successful at a firm. So many different roles you can play. 100% about that. So that's that's just my two cents. I agree. And I do think, you know, so I got this advice from actually a partner here that said, you know, when you become partners, like this is when the work starts. And so I became partner at Crow just this past April. Congratulations. Thank you. And I'll tell you, it's true, like the level of now kind of like thought I put into things completely different, right? Not that I didn't think about things before, but it does take it up a whole other step in terms, and even in the DEI space, what does it mean to be a partner leading this work? It is a very complex thing, right? And I think the complexity is not lost at all on me, so yeah.
Concluding Thoughts on DEI Imperatives
00:38:21
Speaker
Well, Rachel, I thank you for your honesty and I thank you for your time. You're a tremendous leader and I know Grow is ah is gaining and having you be a part of the organization and keep it going. Keep measuring that success because it's incredibly important to measure it, to put yourself you know on task and and have a number out there that really is important that you need to meet and KPIs will always be significant.
00:38:44
Speaker
as it relates to that. So just know, and I'm going to speak to the audience, thank you, but I'm going to speak to the audience as well and say, thei is that going anywhere? I think it is changing. I think inclusivity is necessary. I think it's a business imperative. um I think as we continue to look into the future and figure out how to do it, it's about human capital. It's about you know diverse a diverse group, a diverse individuals, as well as in a lot of different senses, not just the way you look.
00:39:11
Speaker
OK, it's different skills and everything that we bring to the table to be successful. So thank you for joining us for another conversation on balancing the future. And I look forward to future conversations and discussion. So have a good day.