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Tax News Now Ep. 6 - Tax Topics with Damien Martin
316 Plays1 month ago
Mark Gallegos, Tax Partner at Porte Brown, and his guest delve into the leading tax topics each month. Gain insights from their expertise on the current tax landscape, with 2025 looking like a pivotal year for expiring tax provisions and potentially a new tax policy landscape. Recognizing the many uncertainties tax professionals face this year, Mark and his guests emphasize the opportunities to strengthen client relationships and drive future revenue for tax practitioners.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:09
Speaker
Welcome back everyone to Tax News Now, the podcast where we turn complexity into clarity and help you navigate the ever-evolving world of tax. I'm your host, Mark
Special Episode Announcement
00:00:18
Speaker
Alagos. Today, we've got a special episode lined up that blends technical insight with a personal journey that I know will resonate with many of you.
00:00:25
Speaker
Joining
Guest Introduction: Damian Martin
00:00:26
Speaker
me is someone who has been at the forefront of private client tax planning, a trusted voice in our field, and a fellow podcaster and presenter who knows how to break down the tax code into something people can actually use. so Damian Martin, the CPA, is a partner at Ernst & Young's private tax practice, formerly host of Simply Tax, and current host of E&Y's Elements of Private Tax.
00:00:48
Speaker
But beyond his titles and his accomplishments, Damian is one of the most knowledgeable and thoughtful tax minds in the profession today. And I'd
Exploring Damian's Career Path
00:00:55
Speaker
say that not just as a fellow tax geek, but as someone who's lucky to call him a friend.
00:01:00
Speaker
His ability to simplify complexity, mentor others, and lead with both heart and intellect is something we should all aspire to. We're going to spend the first half of the episode digging into Damien's story, his path into accounting, his growth in the profession, and what others can take away from his journey to build the meaningful, lasting career in public accounting.
00:01:19
Speaker
Then in the second half, we'll roll up the sleeves, get a little more tactical with mid-year tax planning strategies for individuals and businesses, and just talk about tax in general. So Damian, welcome to the show.
00:01:30
Speaker
Thanks for having me, here Mark. That was a very ah kind introduction. And I could probably say a lot of those same things about you. So I'm really excited to be here really look Really looking forward to the conversation.
00:01:41
Speaker
Awesome. Awesome. So let's kind of stake it from the top, Damien. what you know If I'm going backwards and you got think back now, what initially drew you into accounting in the first place? And was it love at first sight or what got you there?
00:01:57
Speaker
Yeah, that's ah it's a really good question. And perhaps because I didn't like take the most direct path. um i So undergrad, I studied music. I was ah you know aspiring to be, you know, to teach the collegiate level, right? To become a professor, right?
00:02:13
Speaker
Certainly performance element to it. played good amount of piano and a number of other instruments along the way. Right. But that was, that was the plan. Right. um but I decided, you know, I had kind of always been interested in, you know, i don't know, other topics. so I was sort of double majoring, hadn't quite decided what I was going to do, but I was going to dabble with some business classes.
00:02:32
Speaker
When we got to the accounting module of like, I don't know, it was Business 101 or whatever. I don't know the name of the class, right? But it was along those lines. The accounting stuff just sort of made sense to me.
00:02:42
Speaker
And you know whereas everybody else was kind of looking around like, gosh, I just, I don't like this stuff or it doesn't make sense. like, what are talking about? This stuff's like... and makes sense. It's it's logical. you Like all of these things, like yeah I just really found myself enjoying it. So I don't know it was love at first sight or I kind of fell into it. Then I went down like the internship route and there and i mean, I'm skipping a lot of details in between, but you know that's got that that's what got me on the path. So it was sort of like, I i mean, I don't want to say I fell into it, but I was, I fell into it. Just it was curious, followed what I was interested in. And, you know, I've i've been enjoying it ever since.
00:03:18
Speaker
That's so amazing. I mean, music, I mean, so so you're you're majoring in music, you think you're going to be a professor or a teacher of music, and then you know you fall into accounting along the way. you still play piano?
00:03:30
Speaker
I do not as much as I did, I will say. So I also, I was born raised, went to school out in California. and so I went to Cal as undergrad,
Balancing Career and Family Life
00:03:39
Speaker
right? And so like you just kind of naturally have a lot of connections and I'd play, like going through school. I did a lot of lot weddings. I did a lot of, you know, just things like along those natures, right? that it then So you naturally had like, i had fill in for a band or whatever, right? Yeah.
00:03:54
Speaker
kind of a natural network. I moved to Chicago and then just phase a life, busy work kids. Like it didn't really like get fully plugged back in. ah But what's fun is. So I have a I always say it's like, i don't know if you could say I have a pair of twins. I mean, a boy, girl, boy, girl twins. Right. So I've got a pair of 10 year olds, I guess you'll say.
00:04:11
Speaker
um So one pair of twins or one twin set of twins who are a pair of 10 year olds. um They've started taking piano. um Now something that I know somewhere online got the great advice of, you know,
00:04:23
Speaker
get a piano teacher, right? Like, but then we have fun along the way. And that's been a lot of fun. My daughter's taken to singing. And so, you know, been doing a lot of accompanying with her. And um so that's my long way of saying i still do, but i'm I'm not playing as, you know, professionally like like I was, where I was, I was playing a good amount. I really enjoy accompanying singers. It's, it's, it's ah in particular, it's, it's, um,
00:04:47
Speaker
it's It's a very interesting relationship playing together, you know, back and forth and you lot it and we do a lot of improv. I'm classically trained. um It's just ah it's a very enjoyable. Yeah. Awesome. I love it. Thanks for sharing that.
00:04:58
Speaker
Now, early on, when you're kind of transitioning into, hey, maybe accounting might be a good career. Was there someone who influenced your you early on in that moment or you or helped you in that path along the way?
00:05:13
Speaker
There was, you know, and I think that, and again, I don't know that I necessarily saw it as that, right? Like it just, like yeah I think I always had this view. Like if you were, if you were go back and I'm, you know, you were to meet that, that version of Damien that was sitting in there in that business one-on-one class going, Hey guys, this this accounting stuff, like it's good stuff, right? Like, like if I, if I went back and talked to that guy I think he sort of was like thinking like, okay, it's just going to be like this very, like, i don't know like out of the movies, you know, we're like,
00:05:39
Speaker
you know, there's like, just this big thing, you know, and it's very clear to you and like this formal thing that happened. And like, i mean, that's just not kind of how a lot of things are, I guess, right. It's just more organic and just sort of, you fall into it. But that internship, and there was a a connection, a family connection that, that had that led me to that um really said, Hey, I, you know, I think you're good at this or you know, and then there also sort of like a need at the time that, um that, yeah that, that kind of worked out. and And I just was willing to try and I was curious and didn't know what I didn't know.
00:06:10
Speaker
um And so like I think it was the confidence of that person. Like, Oh yeah, you can do it. Like you can figure that out. Like I didn't even question. Right. um And even
Career Development and Mentorship
00:06:19
Speaker
still to this day, probably a lot of the things that,
00:06:22
Speaker
I don't know, Mark, if you can relate to this too, like like growing up and working with different people, there's like, it's a good way to learn the things that you would like to do, like, you know, looking forward and and the things that maybe you would like not to do if if you're, you know, in in the position of of managing others or leading a team, right? um This was somebody i I think a lot of what I learned about how I want to be, i learned from her.
00:06:44
Speaker
ah She's a fantastic partner and um just really good model. But, you know, it was like little subtle things that like, you know, a bunch of little things that probably led to it. So it wasn't some like big light bulb thing.
00:06:55
Speaker
um But certainly, um you know, there and and others throughout my career have just played a very big role. And that encouragement factor and and molding me into, you know, kind of where am. And that still continues to happen to this day, to to to be completely honest with you.
00:07:10
Speaker
that's That's amazing. And I think we always have those people that, like you said, you know, maybe it didn't feel like a mentor or even ah direct person telling you what to do. but But as you sometimes take a look back, you're like, man, this individual or maybe a group of individuals really played an instrumental role in helping us develop in those early stages, you know. So that's that's awesome.
00:07:32
Speaker
Now, youre you're in accounting, you're kind of know shifting gears a little bit. Obviously, you are in the tax side of things now. But like initially, when you're learning accounting and all of this together, and a lot of times there's not a lot of tax involved in that early stage of learning.
00:07:48
Speaker
what was your What was your experience and what did you think about accounting at that point in time in this change in your life? Yeah, you know, is interesting I think if, well, would have identified as being an audit, even my first couple of years into the career, right? Like I was more so audit than I was tax. I worked for a boutique firm more in terms of size and would, you know, we would do a little of both, which quite honestly was very helpful and influential in my career because I think it really helped to think holistically about things, about
00:08:20
Speaker
You know, and maybe this is what I was also drawn to in accounting is, I mean, it's sort of like the baseline language, you know, and and i mean I mean, maybe this is like the people always want to like, like, OK, this guy, wait a minute, he he studied music. And I was I mean, that was my undergrad, by the way I didn't double. I just I was just straight.
00:08:37
Speaker
My undergraduate degree is in music. Right.
Transition to Public Accounting
00:08:39
Speaker
um and And so everyone's always like, well, it's got to be like, well, like numbers and math, like i mean, music, like I've always. You know, heard that is like sort of being a thing. I'm like, yeah, there's a little of that. But, you know, maybe it's because it's like a language, right? I mean, music's a little bit like a language. You read music. It is like a language.
00:08:54
Speaker
Accounting sort of like the language of um ah business, right? I mean, I don't care what you want to do or where you want to go. like So I think early on, that was really where I was. kind of focused on like the debits and the credits and and then taking that to the tax law. I kind of always knew I wanted to go down the tax road.
00:09:11
Speaker
um Went, got a master's in taxation, you know, kind of shortly after graduating from undergrad, just knowing that that's the path I wanted to be on. um But you're right. it It was sort of like more kind of down the road. Getting some of those fundamentals has really helped um and you know understand at the end of the day, kind of again, like this language of tax, I guess, if you want to really take this metaphor. I've just somehow gone down, you know, to its fullest extent. Right.
00:09:38
Speaker
um And interpreting it for people. Yeah. That's awesome. And i agree. I think music, I mean, I love music, but I can't read music or play music. So I, i have all the admiration for that side of you. that That's fantastic. You know, makes us more well-rounded, I guess.
00:09:55
Speaker
There you go. There you go. Who says that accountants can't be well-rounded, right? i mean Exactly. They should be. So in your early years, you know you you start working for a smaller firm, right? And you know tell me about those early years working for a smaller firm. And also, what kind of lessons did you learn along the way that going from being like, hey, I got you know majored music.
00:10:17
Speaker
ah kind of jumped into accounting, got my then went and got your MST. And now here you are working for ah small firm. And it's a whole different world, the music, right?
00:10:28
Speaker
It is. It is. um And it's it's well said, right? like And I think what what sort of surprised me, but again, has continued to drive me is, you know, there's there's obviously there's the, hey, we got to get the tax returns done or we got to do the financial statements or whatever that is, right?
00:10:44
Speaker
I think I always had this perception that like, you know, especially some of these, you know, business owners or right now, kind of where I spend a lot my time now is working with lot of asset managers and investors. And, you know, just, they are so knowledgeable and we're some very, very bright people. And then not to say that this is like any sort of negative sort of way. It's just like, you know what you know and you don't what you don't. I mean, probably one of the best pieces of advice I ever got from somebody who I actually considered would possibly actually know everything about the Internal Revenue Code.
00:11:16
Speaker
he would often say like anybody that thinks that they, you know, they know, they really understand the journal of code they like is, is fooling themselves. Right. Like you can always be a student of the tax code. And, and even when they did figure it out, like it's going to change.
00:11:28
Speaker
Right. Like, I mean, it it's law is only as permanent as, it's you know, like the next Congress or something all along those lines. Right. So um anyway, to your, to your question is it's to say that you you start to realize that, ah wait, I, you know,
00:11:40
Speaker
Okay, I can help these people, right? Like I'm thinking I'm just this young 20 something old kid, what do I know? But then you realize, wait a win minute, no, they don't know tax, they don't know accounting. They have some element of no knowledge on it. But that was that was really like the the aha moment order to say like, hey, I can help them do what they do best.
00:11:58
Speaker
right? To have the confidence to say, hey, I'm working with this firm. So being they just roll up your sleeves and get it in there and and helping people. that's That's really what, I mean, to this day drives me, right? is is to you know That and I just find the tax law fascinating and planning and all of that, right? So like you put those two things together and i you you know I truly do. I enjoy what I do. I i love just the challenge of it the you know and the the people part of it and and helping people both clients, business owners, whatever as well, right? And doing what they're doing, but also, you know, the the people on my team that i that I get to work with, right? That, you know, helping them, you know, so go through their challenges and and the same things that we're talking like early on. And, you know, so I don't know. don't know.
00:12:41
Speaker
I don't like fully answer your question there, Mark, but like to say that it's, it's you you realize that you can add value no matter where you are in the process. And once you do that, that that you know, finding that thing that that really you can see is helping them.
00:12:55
Speaker
that To me, that was like
Managing Busy Seasons
00:12:56
Speaker
the light bulb moment, I guess, if if you want to call it that. And I think, no, I think you you you hit a lot of great key things there. And i think something people should know about you, not to not to do a spoiler alert here, but like, you know, a lot of people sometimes come out of school and they work for the big four, we'll say.
00:13:14
Speaker
And then they kind of tail off down to a smaller firm along the way. And so far in your journey, you started with the small boutique firm and you have climbed your way into a larger firm ah through the years, so and which is not the typical pathways we always see. And i think I think with that being said, there's a lot about growth and lessons learned and and challenges along the way um that you know I'm sure you have experienced and learned. Yeah.
00:13:43
Speaker
You know, with every great journey comes challenges, as we know, right? Whether it's personal or whether it's career driven or whatever, maybe. um So was there ever a moment when you were initially in this going into public accounting that, you know, somewhere along the way, you're like, you know, am I questioning whether I should have done this or should I have stuck with music?
00:14:01
Speaker
Like, where did you ever run into that along the way? Really Mark, like, and I think I probably had this, like, just this thought of like, gosh, you know, like I didn't have, and I ultimately did. I went back and kind of supplemented, you know, when you go to sit for the CPA exam, you know, if you if you look at like the list of like requirements on the education side, you don't see a lot of, you know, ah music performance and, you know, the history of music. yet You don't see that on the ah on the list there, right? So i I felt like I was coming at it and i and I probably did sometimes get a little frustrated with myself to think like,
00:14:32
Speaker
man, it's like i you know I tied one hand behind my back because I didn't ah you know i didn't go just the the direct route of doing an accounting degree, right? and And getting some of the coursework. So it actually kind of drove me then to sort of like, well, that I'm going to supplement this on my own. i'm going to seek out those opportunities and read this or that, right?
00:14:51
Speaker
But it's certainly, there were moments early on where it was like, do I really know what I, you know what I mean? Like, do I know what I'm doing here? Like, cause I didn't actually learn this in a class, you know? And then I realized, well, no, it's really what a lot of it, especially in public accounting, why I think it's great. Like I always tell people and I know I'm, you know, a little bit preaching the choir here, Mark, cause I, I, I,
00:15:11
Speaker
but you think similarly, right? To say like like, man, even if you're not 100% sure, like public accounting a great place. You learn so much, like great place to start a career if you don't really know what you want to do. i mean, look at me. I clearly didn't know what I wanted to do, right?
00:15:25
Speaker
was joking with somebody the I'm still trying to figure out what I want to be when I grow up, right? Like you're just trying kind of always on this quest and figuring it out and chasing what you're interested in. And that's what's great about public accounting and in and the field and the profession.
00:15:37
Speaker
um you know But I certainly did have those moments of like gosh, like, yeah, like you know, I haven't, to I didn't take a class on that. Like you do do I, you know, so it was, it was hard. And I, and I, there were some, especially early on where, you know, that can easily turn into frustration and you start to say, well, gosh, yeah, maybe I should go do this or that instead.
00:15:57
Speaker
maybe it's a little bit of part of my personality where it's like, I see like a, you know, It's like an uphill battle. Like I'm going to lean in. Like going to like, let's let's go. Like that's just kind of how I'm wired. And, you know, probably had someone early on that sort of was like suggesting they didn't think I could cut it Um, so, so which had the result of actually making me like, oh I'm going to cut it.
00:16:17
Speaker
I, well, I'm, I'm going to make it now. Right. You know, like now, now I can't fail. Right. So like it actually had like, we're going to visually like they could have cut the other way and be like, all right, I'm done going back to music or whatever. Right. But like, that was just for for me. So like the advice I would give to anybody is like, just know that, that like, if you think you don't know, there's somebody else that thinks the same thing, um, whether you studied music or accounting or not, like that, that is just a fact of ah what is both what I love. And it's also one of the most, you know, challenging things about the profession is you're always learning, which means if you're learning, you didn't know something and right. Like that,
00:16:52
Speaker
Naturally, i don't know, maybe again, lot of accountants like to to know the something they're talking about, right? It's an uncomfortable feeling to not know. Right. But to learn truly, you you got to always not be knowing something that you're doing. So um anyway, ah long story short, I started early on with this, you know, like that headwind.
00:17:09
Speaker
ah lot of it was probably in my head, right? Of like, gosh, do I really know this or whatnot? But like, you know, it definitely was rolling a rock up the hill a little bit out of the gate because I was starting a little bit behind the the curve, you know?
00:17:21
Speaker
Yeah. I know. And, you know, tax seasons or busy seasons or however you want to describe them can be challenging, you know, whether it's, you know, that moment from January through April 15th, or maybe it's a second busy season in late August through October 15th or wherever your busy season is. But, you know, we've been through them and sometimes some are better than others. Right.
00:17:46
Speaker
um You know, especially earlier in your career, did you ever experience any of those that were tough, tougher than others? um Or had moments where you're you're like, man, these this is a, you know, because you're trying to learn, you're trying to grow, you're trying to show that you know this stuff, but at the same time, the pressure of clients and work and family and just see just having a break for yourself all come crashing in where you're kind of trying to figure all this out at the same time. Did you ever run into that? And how did you deal with it?
00:18:14
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I certainly, you know, sometimes eyes can be bigger than the stomach, so to speak, you know, and always want to like take on all these things and do all these things. I i did take the approach because I was driven and said like, all right, I'm going to, you know, so like I got done with the undergrad, right? I went to the MST. that That was sort of the solution to of saying, all right, well, I could double major or and actually i had gone to a career event.
00:18:36
Speaker
Right. And and there was someone that she worked for a big four firm um at at the time. and and And she was actually I think she was a biochemistry undergrad or something. Wow. Because we got to talking and she was just I mean, she's like, you know, just kind of talking about my music major. And, you know, not that that were exactly the same thing, but they're both not accounting.
00:18:54
Speaker
Right. And I was telling her like, OK, so here's my plan. I'm going to know, I'm going to the business school and I'm going to I'm going to double because I really like the music thing, too. And it's I mean, I don't know. it's probably It probably would have taken me six years to do undergrad. She's like, no, no, no.
00:19:05
Speaker
Let me tell you what I did. She's like, I got my bio, you know, ah engineering done. And then I went and i mean I went into the master's in taxation because I knew I wanted to do tax. I'm like, wait a minute, that's me too. and And so I kind of realized that. So, but then I decided I'm gonna the MST, take the CPA exam, be early on in the career.
00:19:22
Speaker
Like I was, i had like moved in there somewhere. Like There was a year where i bit off a lot, you know, and like that that was a tough year. I think, again, just maybe the way I'm i'm sort of like driven and like in hindsight, like probably didn't put enough in that like personal bucket, you know, you kind of learn about like where that that that edges. And I always tell this to people that we're good to say, like, you know, you you so sometimes you learn the upper bound of what like what you can do. And i hope that this is why I share some of these experiences. so Hopefully it helps you learn. Like, I think people had told me some more experiences, but
00:19:56
Speaker
I don't know, maybe it's back to like my 10 year olds, you know, and talk about like teaching them piano, right? Like sometimes you just have to have either you get like figured out for yourself or you're going to have somebody other than like, you know, like, dad, don't tell me that. Right. You know, like i I already know it's like, then you, you, you do it anyway. And then, then you feel like, Oh wait, you know, he,
00:20:13
Speaker
that was actually really good advice. Right. So like there was definitely a year and and my friends gave me our time. Like you kind of disappeared there, buddy. you'd love me Yeah, i kind of did. Cause I, I was like, I was like, I'm getting all these things done. Right. And it is one of those things you learn over time where, you know, there's, there's pluses and minuses to everything. And you just, and if you're good with it and you're enjoying what you're doing, like, so I tend to lean out of that direction when I get,
00:20:35
Speaker
driven to, you know, and goal oriented of like, I'm going to check that out the box. But like, as I've gone through my career, you just realize, you know, like, and it, it almost cliche to say, you know, it's a marathon, not a sprint, but I mean, it really is a marathon and not a sprint. And, you know, there will be time for all of these things and you have to prioritize the mental health and the family and the relationships and and all that and, and being well-rounded. um it It makes her you know,
00:21:03
Speaker
It takes care of all of the other things. Like if you start to feel burnout, like that, that's the setback or the step back rather to kind of reset and go forward. So certainly I've seen it again.
00:21:15
Speaker
i probably, I don't know. Again, i I came out of it just, I just kept pushing. i don't why I necessarily recommend it, but you know, everybody has their phase of life in which you do different things, but that was fun. I love it. I think, you know, mean, agree. I think, you know, like in this industry, you could work really hard, but you got to know where your boundaries are, whether it's like, hey, it's a set amount of hours or maybe it's a time or maybe it's just like got to be able to read yourself to go, hey, I'm a little in over my head right now. And maybe it's and you learn it's OK to ask for help. Right. It's OK to be vulnerable.
00:21:46
Speaker
and And that's why it's always good to still have you know friends and family and significant others in your life to be that sounding board, but also support system. um yeah and And I think everyone's got to figure that out on their own, but it's always great to hear. And thanks for sharing you know that side of you, because I think that's something that's powerful for people to understand.
00:22:05
Speaker
Yeah, I don't think I realized at that point in time, like, yeah, like your point of like reaching out and asking for help as much. Like, I just felt like I have to, you know, just pile it all on my back and we're going to go. Right. And like, don't don't let anybody know like you're you're struggling. But like it is again, you go through it, you just learn like people want to help.
00:22:22
Speaker
And it's in that that that again is one of the rewarding things about what I do, whether again, like I said, clients or the people on my team. Right. And i have just found in this profession in particular, people, they they want to help.
00:22:35
Speaker
Right. And, and, and clients want to be understanding and and they want help too. You know, ah it's, it's, it's a two way street, right? Like, so I think that's something that I've, I kind of, I didn't learn it at the time and probably have made that, you know, I tend towards the, like, I'm just going to pile it on my back, you know, like I i default that direction, but then I started getting the self-awareness that that's what I do. And like, Hey, wait a minute.
00:22:55
Speaker
All right. I know I'm pulling, i'm I'm going inward on this instead of like, Hey, I should, you know, look for opportunities to to get some support, right? Because like, again, it builds the relationships with others and it just shows that you're you're human, right? Because we all are human at the end of the day.
00:23:11
Speaker
That's correct.
The Evolution of Podcasting
00:23:12
Speaker
That's correct. So eventually you kind of, got a little bit more sound footing. And, you know, as as time goes on, you began building a platform, your thought leadership and podcasting.
00:23:23
Speaker
Yeah. So when you think about that, what kind of inspired Simply Tax and then, you know, doing that along the way? And then obviously what you're doing now and with E&Y and the elements of private tax, you know, really taking a risk and saying, hey, I'm going talk to people out there and hopefully they'll listen. and And I got something to say, you know, like what kind of brought all that on for you to want to do all that?
00:23:46
Speaker
Yeah, so it is funny. I often will say I sort of like fell into the whole podcasting thing. i don't know. I like if i'm if I if I'm usually like boil the whole thing down and where it started was like I was sort of creating something i wanted for myself.
00:23:57
Speaker
um When I had suggested the idea, I wasn't necessarily meaning that like I should do it. I just meant like, hey, somebody should do this because like, you know, we're all busy, right? Whether i mean, whatever you fill your day with, like i've I've often find myself saying like, there are more things i could slot into my day than there are actual slots to put them in. Right.
00:24:17
Speaker
Which is a good I mean the good options they have. Sometimes I can also feel a little overwhelming. And I'm talking like, you know, in the office and out of the office. Right. Like all around. Right. And and trying to maintain that balance. um And so I thought, gosh, like, you know, would just be really nice to have like ah something on the go that you could, you know, I could I could hear about the latest developments or, you know, some technical area, you know, if I've always wanted to learn more about this or that or whatever. And so I had suggested and then it was like, yeah, ah you you you should do that.
00:24:44
Speaker
I mean, I didn't I didn't mean me. I mean, i don't I don't I don't really know anything about. pu No, no, I think like, well, why get a shot and you see what it looks, you know, looks like going through the process and certainly had some people that are like, Damien, I don't know.
00:24:56
Speaker
break this to you, but like, i don't know anybody's going want to want listen to a podcast about taxes. I'm like, totally fine. Like it won't offend me if nobody wants to listen, you know? Right. they did And so we kept doing them and and sort of, again, it was just a, got again, I'm over ah but i'm definitely oversimplifying, happy to like get go more into the weeds, but it was, i mean, it was literally as simple as that of saying, hey, i just am guided by initially like creating this thing that I wanted for myself.
00:25:20
Speaker
I got into presenting um really the firm I started with where there was a there was a manager at the time and and she kind of pulled me inside and said, Hey, you know, I've got this CPA Society event that I'm doing this California at the time.
00:25:33
Speaker
um And um yeah, basically kind of like, you know, it was one of those like volunteer moments where it's like, hey, what are you doing? like Oh, great. You're free. Like, let's let's go, you know, do this. And and um I mean, I was like just completely mortified at the thought of like presenting.
00:25:47
Speaker
ah But then I realized, like, you know what? And this is how I've always looked at those things, and whether it's writing an article, doing a podcast, like thought leadership in general. Right. Right. The best way to learn about something is to teach it to other people.
00:26:00
Speaker
um And so, you know, as you go down that road, like that's became a thing for me. And and then someone along I realized, hey gosh, and what I really enjoy doing about this, too, is is helping.
00:26:10
Speaker
Yeah. There are just some really talented, brilliant people in the profession that know different things. and And to have guests on and be able to talk and learn from them, like it's it's incredibly rewarding and try to try to create a ah platform for them to to share ideas. So Yeah. but Basically I was just creating something for myself, Mark. If I'm going to be completely honest for you.
00:26:30
Speaker
That's great. So what did it, what, what has doing that presenting podcasting writing, what did it teach you about communication in our profession? Yeah. Yeah. it It definitely taught the profession, the the lesson of, you know, getting the, you know, distilling down the, like, what does it mean communicating it in a way that, you know, would,
00:26:51
Speaker
I look at it and mean, I know you won't agree with me on this. I mean, but so i've been I've been told tax can be a little dry, right? Like, and and maybe, you know, nu and people don't find it as interesting as I do.
00:27:04
Speaker
You know, I know, I know, Mark, it's like, that that that's it's hard to believe, but there, you know, it It can be. So so I look as like, how do I make this interesting and engaging? So it taught me that um and is to to find ways to to do that, which now it honestly has helped me in my career. Because what what do you do as ah as a tax professional?
00:27:24
Speaker
Well, I spent a lot of my day, don't know about you, on, you know, talking to clients, helping them plan for transactions or. Right. whatever it may be. Well, the heart of all of that is communication, right?
00:27:35
Speaker
um kind Solid relationships. I mean, and again, this like transcends tax and and in know public accounting. I mean, like that is the core of a lot of the functions of what we do. um And it really gave the skillset of like, how do you,
00:27:48
Speaker
How do you meet people where they are? How do you try to help to tailor that? And like as you start to get into that, like it's actually really, it's sort of like a puzzle. It's a challenge. I don't know. like it's you're You're solving for the thing. it's it's It's fun, right? And so that was sort of what it taught me. And also that like when there's new things that are challenging to learn, that you know helping others to do that, it's what's like, help me help you. or you know We're all helping each other. i don't know. There's a...
00:28:13
Speaker
um there's ah an aspect that you're, yes, you're you're helping by teaching others, but you're also, there is a a benefit to yourself but from taking those those risks and those opportunities. Yeah, no, that's so good.
00:28:25
Speaker
Key wisdom there. um Now, you've mentored you've mentored others. um You've sit on, besides what you do at your firm and your personal life, you also volunteer time with the Illinois CPA Society with committees on the AICPA.
00:28:41
Speaker
So with all that, what does that side of work mean to you by volunteering your time? Yeah. You know, i just feel incredibly fortunate to, you know, like I guess gave you my like non-linear path, but like there's just been so many people, like I think I mentioned earlier, that have had just a big impact for me.
00:28:59
Speaker
and you know, I really find joy in and in helping to do that as well for others. so
Tax Planning Strategies
00:29:05
Speaker
to you know, again, I mean, it was a CPA society event that kind of got got me going down the road of presenting and learning. And and it just, it really unlocked a lot of doors for me. And so I like, that's at the heart of it. And just in seeing, you know, how can I help others to do the same thing? I just, you know, even the people that I work with on my team, but certainly those that I work with, you know, this through both those organizations that are just fantastic. And what I think is also really been rewarding about it too, is you just find out, gosh, just how much like the Illinois CPA Society or the the AICPA that they do.
00:29:40
Speaker
They do a lot. my I know even when I, is like, early starting evolve you're like, wow, I didn't know. i didn't know they did that. Right. i didn't know they had a group that did this or that. And like, you just realize how much, just how much great work that both of those organizations are doing. i mean And yeah, it really is something that you can just, you just start kind of following. You're like, wow, I really enjoyed this, right? And I really enjoy trying to help to like, you know, pay it forward or give back, right? At the end of the day.
00:30:06
Speaker
That's great. So if you were talking to a young CPA, um whether it's in your firm or, or hey, what state society or AICPA, or just you're you're sitting in a coffee shop, right?
00:30:18
Speaker
And that young CPA is thinking about leaving public accounting. What advice would you give them if they're like, you know, should I stay? Should I go? I don't know. You know, what would you tell them? You know, I think it's a, it's a, it is a, is a personal decision at the end of the day, any decision of where you're kind of going with your career. I always start there to say it is, it is a personal decision and you know, you've got to do what's right on a number of fronts, right. To, you know, how are you feeling about it?
00:30:45
Speaker
I, that said, I do feel like oftentimes if, if maybe someone's struggling a little bit, you know, in in the profession and gosh, like I'm not enjoying it. I think the the first thing is say like first year, you've, you've, you've just kind of got to have to like, there's just,
00:30:58
Speaker
Have patience, you know, try it out. I mean, I never would want anybody to be in something that they absolutely are miserable with. Right. But sometimes you look at and say, well, OK, like I said, we're talking earlier, like public accountings, it's a wide field. that There's a lot that you could do.
00:31:12
Speaker
So maybe are you just maybe, on you know, is there another opportunity, another area that you would maybe be more passionate about? So I always say, like, all right, let's just let's find what you're passionate. What do you enjoy doing?
00:31:23
Speaker
And you probably can do that within you know public accounting, right? Again, it's not the end of the deal, but like the thing is that I think is important, I think, is you you just learn so much regardless of what you want to do. I'll even tell people that just being open, right? Just say like, look, I understand like you may your your future goal is to maybe do something that's not public accounting.
00:31:44
Speaker
Okay. You should stay in public accounting late and late late for early on and start your career there because it's just going open up doors to you. You're going to learn... Like in a way that I'm, again, I'm obviously a little biased because it's the path that I chose. Right. So consider who is telling you this. Right. But like, I mean, I've seen it time and time again, just how much, how rounded it makes you, how, you know, the just the connections you make, like all of that, like what you can learn to grow your personal skills.
00:32:12
Speaker
You know, so I, I generally encourage people again, recognizing that sometimes you got to do right. yeah do what's right for you when you're family in that moment and phase of life. Like I've used that term and I i am a big phase of life believer, meaning that like, you know, you've got kids now, maybe you don't, you know, you have kids later, but they're at, you know, they're growing up and they're not 10 like my two, right? Like it that that's something different than it was when they were one and like all that, right? So um to say that you you got to do what's right for you in the moment, but at the end of the day, like have patience with it is what I generally encourage. And and oftentimes it's, it's, who you know, who are you working with and what are you doing?
00:32:47
Speaker
You know, check it, take a look at that and see if there's other, there's opportunities. Cause I mean, if the future is bright for the, for public accounting general, for, for, for CPA, the profession, the field in general.
00:32:58
Speaker
So I would always encourage people to just have a little patience with it and, and, and have conversations and, you know, talk to people if if you're struggling a little bit. Because again, there is a little bit of, you know, what they say, like it's worth doing, like there there's there's probably a little bit work in there, right? Like in some hard work and challenges you're face along the way. But, um you know, so you just got to balance those things. But it's it's not uncommon in any profession. I don't care what you want to do, right? Like,
00:33:27
Speaker
i So I will never start be a starting you know player in the NFL. Right. But like, right. It takes a lot of work to do that. Right. so like, no matter what you do, like there's going to there's going to be some hard work in there. So don't sometimes, you know, that can be a and that can be intimidating. That can be challenging.
00:33:40
Speaker
But don't let that, and you know, intimidate you to the point that maybe you would, you know. Think you need to make a change when maybe it's just, you know, kind of reflecting on that a little bit. and Awesome. That's great.
00:33:51
Speaker
I mean, you've painted such a powerful picture, so I thank you for that. so It's, you know, a picture of resilience, purpose, and growth. And so I kind of want to shift gears a little bit from what we we're talking on the personal journey.
00:34:03
Speaker
It's more of the practical um technical side a little bit. So, you know, as we're As we're recording this, we're kind of headed into, that you know, it's heating up outside, it's starting to get to the warmer months, the summer's coming. And so you kind of look at mid-year tax landscape, right?
00:34:18
Speaker
And so why do you think this time of year is such a critical checkpoint for clients in general? You know, I've i've always said, i don't know, it's like there's like the two times of year that ah in particular that people think of it. I mean, they clearly think about a year in, but I love your question here, Mark, because I look at like the, you know you get out of the tax season, um go like you're on your April 15th and, you know, you you there's...
00:34:42
Speaker
it's a good time to just take stock because you've, you've the extension. There's maybe some open questions. You've got another half of the year, at at least, you know, and right now. Yeah. It's more or less half a year, right.
00:34:53
Speaker
That to, to, you know, maybe make some changes if you, if you're, if you're structuring or you know, see, you there you can still do something about it versus like once we're doing a tax return, you know, we're kind of like living in the past, right? Like what happened happened at that point in time. So it's a lot better have the conversation now when I've got, you know, seven-ish months left in the year than to like, you know, to do it next January when like the year is baked more or less, right? Like and that's you know So ache in a nutshell, that's that's kind of it, is to say you can help to make decisions that are more informed decisions from a tax lens you know by having those conversations mid-year than wait until, hey, it's time to get the tax returns done.
00:35:37
Speaker
Yeah, no, I think that's so important. I mean, I always say, you know, right now you're in the offensive side. I know people get through the busy season, tax season, and they're just worn out. And then, you know, they're doing out, they're catching up on life. And, you know, before you know it, months just fly by. And before you know it, you're into the fall. And next thing you know, you're back into the next year. And You know, clients, they don't, they think, you know, hey, it's April 10th. Oh, what kind of planning should I do to change my tax liability right now?
00:36:04
Speaker
And you're on the defensive side of like, well, we're just reacting to the best we can do. whereas Whereas, you know, the summer we're we're being on the offensive side to say, hey, what can we actually tangibly do to help you strategize in this area? and I think that's important.
00:36:19
Speaker
I really like that. they don and I like that because then that's exactly it. And i think that's a good way of putting it. Right. To say that you just, you know, thinking about those modes and, you know, there there is a compression that happens. i don't know.
00:36:30
Speaker
You know, deadlines do help us get things done clearly. Right. But like there is just because of the availability information, there's this window that you're working within to get things done. So it is a far better time. mean, there is more bandwidth and in the brain to think about these things, right? To to be able to do the planning outside of, you know, that peak window, like I said, where the compression happens.
00:36:50
Speaker
um Because you just, you have the ability is to, you know, a lot of times you just want to be able to take a step back and think about it more holistically. um Again, thinking of structuring or or whatever it is, you know? So couldn't couldn't agree more, couldn't agree more.
00:37:03
Speaker
Absolutely. And so, you know, we're starting stare down some potential shifts in the tax landscape. Obviously, as the date of this recording, you know, last Friday, Houseways Means issued their first um draft, part one of the a reconciliation bill on the tax side of things. And then obviously we've seen part two come out.
00:37:24
Speaker
They've been going through markup. um So there's a lot on the table, you know, but with all that being said, you know, things that have been on the minds of like you and I and other people is we got TCGA sunset, R&D, you know, capitalization um under 174, 163J, you know, bonus depreciation, all these things. And also I'm doing economic pressures.
00:37:46
Speaker
So what are you telling your clients and how are you helping your clients in the midst of all of that stuff up in the air? Yeah, that that is if I was going to kind of like in a nutshell, say what I've but what i've been really doing a lot lately is is is that. Right.
00:38:00
Speaker
So to your point, you know, we're kind of i don't know what we're doing. We want to like use metaphors here like ever maybe maybe we're um in this going into the second inning going use like a baseball. Right. you know, metaphor here of being that, right.
00:38:14
Speaker
So we've actually got this budget reconciliation process we're starting, which is the bestest we're on and so coming through the house, or go to the Senate, back to the house probably, you know, um so which which basically means we don't know yet.
00:38:25
Speaker
We know more than we did this time last week, right? And again, we'll continue that, but we don't know what's the actual provision. And and I think, you know, so your point, sunset of TCJA, that all comes about because of this budget budget reconciliation process, which generally means you've got this instruction that says how much more or less the budget, you know, you can lose if you will, or or, or, you know, however you're going to do it over this budget window.
00:38:51
Speaker
And then you get this, okay, well then you have things, if it it doesn't work out, well, you have them sunset. Well, a lot of the individual provisions, most of the individual provisions of the TCJA sunset expire at the end of this year, 2025, absent anybody doing anything.
00:39:06
Speaker
Right. And you mentioned a couple that have sort of already expired or sunset or changed right in the soup. So what that creates is, you know, I can tell you what the law is next year. i can tell you that's probably not going to happen, which is to say that like we just go back to as if the TCJA didn't happen.
00:39:22
Speaker
Right. And we unwind a lot of the ah tax cuts that were in the tax cuts and jobs act. Again, I don't think we land there, but then is it what we just saw on in the house? I think probably change a couple times. I mean, again, speaking from experience with the TCGA and watching that come through.
00:39:38
Speaker
So what does that mean? It's like, well, if I don't i don't know, and some people take the approach of saying, well, don't tell me until the bill's You know, we got a final bill, right? Exactly. Some people want to do that. Or they can say, I'm going to chase down every single last thing and drive myself nuts.
00:39:51
Speaker
And then I forgot, like, gosh, like, did they put that in there? do they not? Like, and that'll probably happen a little bit anyway. But so trying to find that balance. And so, like, I think the approach really that I've been taking is to say, all right, let's let's look at what's important for you. What are the meaningful levers? Yeah.
00:40:07
Speaker
that that are meaningful for your your fact pattern, right? What do you do? You know, are you a widget maker? Are you a, like, I don't know, right? Are you an asset manager and you make your money, you know, managing investments?
00:40:19
Speaker
The answer become very different in terms of some of the different tax revisions and whether you care or not that they're changing them or not changing them, right? um Knowing, for example, like one of the the big headline things that I think will continue to be a headline thing is the state and local tax cap.
00:40:37
Speaker
right and to say that okay well we got ten thousand dollar you ten thousand dollar bucket for our state and local tax five i guess if you file separate right but you know like that you're going to fill that up generally in a lot of cases you fill it up with your property taxes or whatever and then you maybe get a little your income taxes and then by and large absent this past or any tax regime you're you're you're sort of you know not not getting a deduction for it well Were you deducting them before? Because the alternative minimum tax is a second you know separate parallel calculation you do that has certain adjustments. Well, one of them is adding back state and local taxes.
00:41:14
Speaker
So understanding like how much, if at all, any benefit you actually received. And so do you care when they're talking about, hey, we're going to have the SALT cap at this or that or the other? Does it actually impact you? like, though though that's where I think it's say like, what's meaningful? What are the meaningful levers?
00:41:30
Speaker
And then sort of you can, then it's like anything, right? Like I'm going to go and like, you know, I'm going to buy a house, right? I think I know what I know about the house, but I can't know everything about the house.
00:41:41
Speaker
I don't know if the refrigerator is going to break tomorrow. I so i i bought a house like... about two years ago, right? Actually, it was two years ago this month. ah So we're just about at two years. Like, you don't know. Like, you have like maybe it's it's not the exact best parallel because you can you can sort of know a little bit better on the house, but ultimately, you know what's going to happen. So the same thing is sort of true. We're in a period of uncertainty.
00:42:04
Speaker
with the tax law. So it's no different than that. Or like, I'm going to go buy a car. Like, how do I know I bought the right one? Maybe I got a lemon. I don't know, right? Like, so you know what you you, you take what you do know, you take what matters to you, and then you can help people make decisions as best they can. Because again, if I'm a, I'll go back to this widget maker. It was funny, Mark. I always go to this widget example. And I was talking earlier to our group and I was like, I mean, I don't know why I always say widget maker. You know, like what is a widget machine? I wonder like, what is this thing actually? I've never known. You know, like I got to get a widget machine or a widget. i don't know.
00:42:37
Speaker
But anyway, like I'm a widget, you know, manufacturer, like, and I'm, you know, I'm looking again, because there's ah there's a lot of, again, I can talk about tax all day long. Clearly, you know, we we get to the weeds of this stuff, but like, you know at the end of the day, like that's one facet. Yes, maybe it's a very large line item.
00:42:52
Speaker
on my widget manufacturer that I work with, they're they're bo their their income statement rather, right? Like in terms of cost items. So people care a lot about taxes, but the end the it's not the only one, right? And we've got a lot of the things going on, economics and you know and globally and and and seeing what that means for them.
00:43:07
Speaker
you know But if they're trying to make a decision, at least being able to know, well, if this cuts this way or that way, and wherever we land on the tax bill, if i've If I've thought about it, I've modeled it, I've i've worked through it. Like that's the work, that's the thing to do now because if there is one thing I do know, and hopefully you don't end up in, you know, into December again, like we do with TCJA.
00:43:28
Speaker
But if there's one thing I do know is that once it becomes clear what it is, everybody wants to do that. Like there's just not enough time in the day to do it all. And that was particularly the case with Taxes and Jobs Act because what happened was like basically a week after we like got the thing and it was signed into law,
00:43:45
Speaker
the provisions went to effect. So like you didn't have a lot of time. And it was also like the end of the year. it was between like Christmas and new Year's where you're like, you know, and ideally wanting to spend, your point about being balanced, some time with the family. So, you know, you you do what you can now and and help people kind of understand. So as it's going through, maybe, you know, you you want to track it. I think, and again, I enjoy that, but you, you know, knowing what the important things are for people, helping people that identify that.
00:44:09
Speaker
That's the work to be doing now. And then you're, you know, once we figure out what we're actually dealing with the the cards we've been dealt, hey, now we can play the hand, right? Absolutely. I remember when TCGA came out, obviously the end of the year, it was, you know, not the ideal time. And then remember it's New Year's Eve and I'm like, everyone's happy new year. And I'm like, so 189 camp A, so what is this, you know, SSTB, what's going on here? Like, why is this on my head and at midnight on New Year's Eve? Right. So, so interesting how all that played out, but.
00:44:40
Speaker
Oh, Mark, I am so glad to be talking to you right now because you you and i we we we could have called each other and had a whole one-night cafe conversation at that time. like I know. i I was like driving my family nuts. I'm over here like, you know, my nose in the bill and like just like driving around. and like, what what is this thing? Like just fascinated by it. But like that's the thing. And like if you find that, like again, you know, will.
00:45:01
Speaker
more Like, and I allude to myself as being sort of a tax geek, but like, because I do, I enjoy it, right? But like, you find stuff like that, that's those are the opportunities you can really help people, right? At the end of the day, like 199 Cafe, that that's like getting 20% off of the store, you know? People like to get 20% off the store. Maybe it becomes 23% off of the store if if things land where they are right now, right? Like, I mean, that's that's a meaningful difference for clients and in their business. and And for most of the people I work with, like their business or, you know, um i pick on business a lot of times, but like that's maybe their biggest asset.
00:45:34
Speaker
Right. And so if you can do something to help them, that's going to allow them to hire another employee or get another widget machine or whatever. Right. Like that, that that's going to help them in their business. That's going to help their people again. So that gets gets all back to it it's, it, yes, it's the, it's the numbers and the letters and the text and all that. But at the end of the day, like it's, it's, what does it mean in practice? Like that's,
00:45:59
Speaker
that's really what, the why I'm so fired up about kind of where we are. is you can take the other side and say like, there's all this uncertainty and that's, gosh, that's hard and that's difficult. And yeah, but like, look at all this exciting stuff that we get to figure out, you know, yeah maybe even on New Year's Eve, uh,
00:46:15
Speaker
Who knows, right? You never know this year. So, but ah you, you, you said a few things earlier. One, you know, Our industry, it's kind of like a puzzle. And I always find, you know, whether I'm working with a client, trying to help us provide a solution for them, or maybe it's an acquisition or a purchase or a sale, you know, you're always trying to figure out how do you how do you find the right puzzle pieces to make it fluid for these clients, right?
00:46:37
Speaker
And you also mentioned that, you know, like some clients that are waiting to the year end to do tax planning, you know, right at the end. Right. And sometimes there's not enough runway to do effective tax planning.
00:46:48
Speaker
And so circling back, so here at the mid year, You could start thinking, if you're a professional out there and you're like, I'll talk to my client in mid-December, well, you might want to consider the summer because whether it's an individual, high net worth or a business, or maybe it's just like you it's your widget maker out there, right?
00:47:05
Speaker
they need to They need to figure out besides the tax law, they need to start thinking about what can I do now with you know half a year left to do some strategies. That's right. And in like the biggest, like it's the easiest or okay. It's the simplest, but not the easiest ah part of like, basically like what I do if I boil it down. Right. And I'd say, you probably do too, right. Is this like to, to help people, you know, basically not get surprised by tax bills.
00:47:30
Speaker
Right. And then help them plans. Like make, make informed decisions and manage their cashflow around that. Right. Because again, cash or tax can be a pretty big line item for people.
00:47:41
Speaker
And it's a pretty big cash item for people. And so, you know, that can really, you know, that's the lifeline to the, to, again, whether it's business or just a personal life, right. And not disrupting that for people as best you can. Right. And so, yeah, when you, when you've got some runway to do it and I spent a good amount of time too, and they stay in gift side. And like, if there's one thing that I've learned is like that, that, that kind of like Congress always take the over on how long that's going to take.
00:48:08
Speaker
You know, you don't have a lot of runway. Well, there's a lot of there's there's a lot of non-tech stuff that you got to think about when you're thinking about like your legacy or, you know i'll has you know, thinking about like your demise and you not being here. Like people don't like to think about that and it takes longer to do it for that reason. So like, you know,
00:48:26
Speaker
you everybody has a little bit more time and you know gosh it's just a little nicer warmer weather you can even you know maybe get outside a little bit or something depending like you get creative with it and i've done that right where you get to get people out for a you know go go get a cubs game or something here in chicago right like and right um like that kind of stuff where it doesn't have to be this you know again you know mix and tax and cubs there i guess but you know again just a way to ah to talk about these things in a way and meeting people where they are when they have time to meet them where they are So as you're talking to clients, and obviously, you know we know that um tax provisions, tax tax reconciliation in this bill is going to be on a lot of people's minds. So that's a front center topic. But beyond that, um but what are the things clients are talking to you about you know from a planning perspective, whether it's individuals or businesses? I mean, what are you seeing out there is like, hey, Damien, here's the thing that keeps me up at night.
00:49:21
Speaker
I want to, you know can I do x Y, and Z? like Is there a theme you're seeing right now? You know, I think that there's, um people people look at it a little bit as like, ah in and i'll just i'm I'm like almost pausing as I'm saying, because I've had clients before say like, that's not a way I want to think about it. But I mean, you're looking at the risk, right?
00:49:39
Speaker
And so there's many that I work with to say, like, i don't want to end up like, I don't want to end up with the wrong side of this. I don't want to have a surprise. i don't want a surprise tax bill. um I don't
Business and Estate Management
00:49:49
Speaker
want, you know, the States, I mean, we, we focus a lot on the federal, but the state side of things too.
00:49:53
Speaker
So I think a lot of that, which is, I mean, again, it's, it's simple, but not easy is, is just, is helping people manage, you know, the risk of things and planning for things. So, mean, again, that's a very broad ah statement, but just making sure that they're, you know,
00:50:09
Speaker
that they're they meeting the requirements if there's if there's you know multi-state requirements or there's foreign reporting requirements and and not ending up with, you and there can be pretty significant penalties um or or ending up on like you know the the wrong side of a headline or something of you know that sort of thing of not not being perceived that you did something aggressive kind of thought from a tax perspective and in educating people on it. So that's really where and again, maybe that's because I look at the, you you know, the environment is shifting a little bit.
00:50:38
Speaker
um But beyond that, I do think succession planning um and, you know, no relay with the state and the gift that that continues to be something that is on people's minds, right? Whether it be an M&A type transaction and planning for that or you know, within a family and in working with a family office or, you know, how do I maintain and sustain what I'm doing? How do I pass it to the next generation?
00:51:06
Speaker
That requires a lot of work. um And that's where like the fact that like, you know, frequent area I spend time and people always want to like, well, what kind of, you know, what choice of entity and what should my form of entity be, right? Like I'm choosing my entity. And it's it's a fascinating conversation, you could say it right now, because, you know, when you have these shifting pieces,
00:51:25
Speaker
you know the decision, it it it's based on a lot of how those pieces lock together. I like your puzzle. going to go with the puzzle. Right? And so like you, um um I don't know necessarily what color this piece is yet.
00:51:38
Speaker
Right? In some cases, right? Like the corporate tax, we know what the corporate tax rate is ah because that was permanent. But again, as I think I've kind of alluded to, right? Like tax law is only as permanent as, you know, until they change it.
00:51:51
Speaker
right until they change things Right. It just doesn't mean it goes anywhere. Like it hasn't been doing anything. So, um you know, you know what you know when you make the best informed decision, but like it's, it's, it's, it it is truly fascinating and modeling these things, but like the choice of entity, the structure of, of, you know, however, whether it be personal or or business affairs, you know, and then the overlay of then how do I,
00:52:13
Speaker
Either I pass that on or how do I exit this? Like that's the, I mean, 30,000 feet, that but but that summarizes basically all of the conversations I'm having right now around how do I make tax not become a challenge in that? Or um how do I plan for it or not get surprised by it? Or, you know, again, risk, it comes in the equation to say like, if I'm selling my business and I was maybe burying my head in the sand a little bit about something,
00:52:39
Speaker
I didn't like this tax answer, so I'm going kind of do this, that, or the other, or whatever. Like, ah you know, at the end of the day, like, that it kind of comes back to roost when you're going to sell. In many cases,
Maintaining Balance and Passion
00:52:48
Speaker
again, you know, so just just looking at that and and helping people manage manage that um the key thing. So, yeah.
00:52:54
Speaker
Well, love it. Now, let's shift to something a little bit more personal. So you're involved in a lot, right? You're partner uy podcast host, committee member, teacher, mentor.
00:53:06
Speaker
How do you create space or find time to recharge in your in your daily life or your your balance? Where do you find that? Yeah.
00:53:18
Speaker
So I'm going to be completely transparent. I kind of want to ask you this question, Mark, because I actually think you do a of a very good job of this. I got to be honest. it And it is one of those things where like I am glad that I've gotten some intentionality about it. Like I think the word I would use is being intentional about it. Right.
00:53:34
Speaker
Yes. Things will fill like it's it's like sand. Right. Like it's going to fill into like all the little crevices, you know, like. I don't know, you ever go on to yeah ah the beach with the kids and like, you're just like, how did sand get into this? I don't even understand. And like, that's sort of what happens with my time, right? If I'm just not being intentional about it.
00:53:52
Speaker
And so it is a like, there's a little ebb and flow and sometimes can get back down that path because it's super easy, especially when you're trying to help and being helpful and doing all these things. I, I,
00:54:03
Speaker
I tend to go for it towards yes. And, you know, well, let's figure it out. Right. But that that can actually be pretty challenging. So it's being intentional about and and in creating space for things like um honest this is the first thing that's pop in my head. So I'm going share it. Right. So my my dad had retired a couple of years ago.
00:54:20
Speaker
uh maybe like before the pandemic and so um you know and it's funny because he's always like you can go make a time damien you know i'm at home like my schedules schedule is flexible but like the reality is is like even calling him and having a conversation with him like i i actually have a scheduled weekly call with my dad in the middle of the week to talk to him he lives in california i mean you know we got two hours between us right so just like planning for it because like Oddly enough, like that two hours can be the difference. Like when you're to your point and you're doing all of the things and getting home for dinner and before you know it, it's like, you know, either too tired or whatever. Right. So, you know, it's scheduling it, you know, so I guess you could, if you're going like with the, uh,
00:54:59
Speaker
the speak of like okay you schedule blocks right put some time on there to you know to hold for it um but then also i've really i've leaned into um running i i found kind of running as a way just an outlet it it's sort of just like time to kind of be in my head i can listen to listen to a podcast i can you know um listen to some music actually my my my son is sort of you know he likes to to run as well my daughter does too but You know, he he was he's like, let's go. Let's go for running. Like, um which is a different type of running. But in in in terms of like, all right, we're having conversations as we're going versus like me just being in my head. So it's creating space because there's one if there's one thing I've learned that like, yeah, I can listen to a podcast or whatever else. But like, you know, like I can't be like reading an email.
00:55:43
Speaker
while I'm running, you know, generally, because I tend to go running, you know, on a trail nearby. So like trail running and while like reading emails is is like those two things don't go together, which is a great thing because then it gives you that space.
00:55:55
Speaker
Again, it it sort of forces it. But again, I go back to this intentional creating the space because if you don't create the space. Speaking from experience, it does not create itself for you.
00:56:06
Speaker
I love it. i use To be intentional is so key. but Listening to yourself, listening to your body, getting the rest. I always view it as like when you have a passion like you do for what you do, whether it's your family and your kids or your job or all the other extracurriculars.
00:56:22
Speaker
like a think I always think of it like a bucket. you know like So like when you have this passion and your passion, that means it's fit you fill in the bucket and then it overflows. And then it's and then it's infectious for other people to be like, man.
00:56:36
Speaker
Damien's doing a lot. Man, he seems to be having fun with it versus Damien's doing a lot and Damien's just complaining all day long about everything he's got to do.
00:56:46
Speaker
Two different people there, right? And so it's huge. Yeah. Being intentional is key. So love that. It is. It is.
Quick-Fire Questions and Conclusion
00:56:53
Speaker
It's the key to everything. So, yeah. No, that's good. That's good. So ah before we close out, I want to do a quick lightning round with you if if you're good with that.
00:57:01
Speaker
Okay. so just think I don't know. I'll i'll side upb i've sign it up for you, but let's do it. I'm going to throw up a few questions and i'll I'll ask questions. You just respond. No right or wrong answers. Okay. All right. So one mid-year tax tip every individual should consider.
00:57:17
Speaker
What would you think?
00:57:20
Speaker
item or annualizing income, like looking at the income that's not like not spread evenly, right? to To make sure you're you know you're not underpaying or overpaying ah from a tax perspective.
00:57:31
Speaker
Very, very important there. I love that. that's I mean, I don't know how many times people are, you know you want to know, hey, let's annualize this out and then let's talk about where that should go from there. So good.
00:57:42
Speaker
Yeah. Another question, one overlooked deduction you wish more people could use or should use. Hmm, deduction. Am I allowed to say section 1202 and qualified small business stock? i mean, it's not really deduction, but I mean, it's an exclusion, but it gets the same spot. 1202, qualified small business stock. Absolutely.
00:58:00
Speaker
Absolutely. And you know, the funny thing is some people will say, oh, 1202, oh, that's big, fancy stuff. It my doesn't apply to my client base. And then don't know about you, but i get calls from firms that are, you know smaller practitioners and everything else. and they're like, got a situation where I think I have a 1202 and, and you know, you realize that you know, this is something that everyone should have in their arsenal as to as, hey, are we even thinking or talking about this? So I think great point. It's the best deal on the internal code. I mean, honestly, it's just like just a wholesale of exclusion. if you Yeah, I can sell my business, not pay tax. Wait, what?
00:58:32
Speaker
Yeah. One thing you hope clients can do before October of this year.
00:58:41
Speaker
october this year. Get me all their information. I think we'll go with that. Yeah, it's challenging, right? Because I work with a lot of, like I said, you know, a lot of they invested in PE or hedge or, you know, whatever it is. and And, you know, sometimes the information doesn't come until, then you know, later in the year. So um I think that's, i think that's really it. and And if I can do a part two, I would be remiss if I didn't at least mention the estate plan thing and like trying to revisit that. Because you do that by October, that could give you a chance to implementing something for the end the It's the right fit, you know?
00:59:10
Speaker
I love it. I love it. Damien, thank you so much for joining us today. I mean, that is just, you know, your insight, your wisdom, and just who you are um just elevates this profession to another level. So thanks for being on this.
00:59:24
Speaker
That's kind words. And thank you. it Truly, I've enjoyed it, Mark. i and I always enjoy talking with you. And that's why I was looking forward to this, to be honest, you know. And and um so I appreciate it Appreciate all you do. And yeah, it was it was great spending time with you here.
00:59:39
Speaker
Great. Thank you. So that wraps up another episode of Tax News Now. Huge thanks to Damian Martin for joining me and sharing such valuable insight. Damian is not only a phenomenal technical expert, as you can see, he's someone I deeply admire and respect as a friend. His ability to see around corners, advise with clarity, and lead with both substance and empathy is a rare gift in our profession. If you don't already follow his work or know him personally, now's the time.
01:00:04
Speaker
Be sure to check out his podcast, Elements of Private Tax, for more great content. It's one of the most practical and insightful listens in our space. And don't forget, if you want CP credit for tuning in today, just to click away. The link is in the show notes.
01:00:19
Speaker
And if you're already a Prime CP subscriber, it's included. Just log in and finalize your credits. Thanks for tuning in. And we'll catch you next time on Tax News Now, where we talk tax and we talk about real world action. So thanks for joining us.