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Tax News Now Ep. 5 - Tax Topics with April Walker
302 Plays2 months ago
Mark Gallegos, Tax Partner at Porte Brown, kicks off this 2025 tax discussion series. He shares what he loves about the tax profession, being very human-centric and focused on helping people. Learn from his expertise on the current tax landscape and his insights surrounding 2025 as an especially critical year, where tax provisions are set to expire and a new president will impact the results of new tax bills. Acknowledging the many uncertainties that tax professionals face regarding imminent changes in regulation, he highlights this as an opportunity to grow even closer client relationships.
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Transcript
Introduction to Episode and Guest
00:00:09
Speaker
Welcome back to another episode of Tax News Now, where we cut through the complexity and get real about what's happening in the world of tax. I'm your host, Mark Galagos, and today's episode is all about helping you reimagine your firm, your workflows, and the way you lead your practice.
00:00:23
Speaker
I'm thrilled to be joined by someone who's at the forefront of tax practice management and innovation, April Walker. April has worn just about every hat in this profession from the big four to the local firm to now a national thought leader and now serves the profession as a senior manager of tax practice and ethics at the AICPA.
April Walker's Professional Journey
00:00:42
Speaker
First off, April, huge congratulations on your recent promotion. ah Thank you, Bart. That's an exciting move, and I know it reflects the incredible value that you're bringing to the AICPA community and the entire tax profession.
00:00:55
Speaker
April has over 20 years of experience in public accounting. She has spent nearly five years at PwC in Raleigh-Durham, I believe, before moving to Blackman and Sloop CPAs in Chapel Hill.
00:01:06
Speaker
And now... She works at the AICPA. um She supports CPAs across the country by developing and promoting the kinds of resources and practice tools that make a real difference in this profession.
00:01:18
Speaker
She's also the host of the Tax Section Odyssey podcast and moderator of the Reimagining Your Tax Practice series, a lineup of dynamic roundtables covering real-world issues, tech stacks, burnout, staffing, succession, and so much more.
00:01:33
Speaker
And on a personal note, may I end? She's not just a standout professional. She's an amazing friend and someone I truly admire.
Evolution of Tax Practice Management
00:01:40
Speaker
In this episode, we're going to talk about what April is seeing in the front lines of practice management, how firms are evolving post-pandemic, and how to prepare for the next era of the tax profession.
00:01:50
Speaker
So let's dive in. Welcome, April, to the show. Oh, thank you so much for having me. Man, I'm not sure i am um worthy of that introduction, but I will try my best.
00:02:03
Speaker
So April, let's start at the beginning. Let's go back some time. What inspired you or led you to get into tax and public accounting in the first place?
00:02:13
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. um So I'm one of those people who took an accounting course in high school. And was like, whoa, this is cool.
00:02:27
Speaker
This is what I want to do And I followed through with it, which is, I think, kind of unusual. I think some of the things that I found interesting about accounting in a high school are very different than ah the actual real world implications of accounting. But um it still fit my, you know, um ah love of numbers, I'll say to start with.
00:02:53
Speaker
And it just made sense to me. I don't know, like debits and credits. I was like, hey, this is a puzzle. i like it. So I went to school at University of North Carolina Chapel Hill, go Tar Heels, and set my plan in place to get into business school there and get my master's of accounting there. Everything really just fell into place.
00:03:17
Speaker
again, again i I'm not sure that I would have envisioned my 18-year-old self doing what I'm doing right now. But, um you know, I think that's what this world is about, right? Like finding finding your fit and and figuring out how to make it work for you.
00:03:38
Speaker
that's That's amazing. I know similar to myself, I i know I took ah ah two accounting classes in high school. i think the only two they offered and they were basic, but I did enjoy whatever that was about accounting um that made me kind of launch into it. Although i would agree with you 100% that none of what I learned in high school in accounting is anything that I do today.
00:04:01
Speaker
so But it got me there. so Yeah, that's right. That's how it was important. Yes. So you've had this unique journey.
Career Path and Role Choices
00:04:08
Speaker
So you you came out of school and you worked for PwC.
00:04:11
Speaker
Yeah. And then you went on the Blackman Sloop. And now you're at the AICPA. Yeah. So how did those experiences influence how you support firms now at the national level with the AICPA? Yeah.
00:04:24
Speaker
So I started Cooper's Labyrinth in Raleigh, North Carolina. And I, when I, remember this so vividly, even though it was so many years ago, we had to decide tax or audit.
00:04:37
Speaker
And at the time, you know, we were meeting, like firms were coming in and they were explaining what people did in in these jobs. And Like I heard, okay, I'm an auditor. i have to travel around to different clients. i have to do this traveling. Like that just didn't sound that exciting to me, which is so bananas because travel is like such a like core part of my being now. But at the time, like I just couldn't imagine it. I thought, okay, like tax is interesting to me. i did well in my tax classes. I'm going to do tax.
00:05:10
Speaker
So I started in the tax department and and ah you know, we got through like the first busy season and, you know, you have like this little bit of downtime or whatever. And they said, hey, April, would you be interested in doing these acquisition audits?
00:05:28
Speaker
um where you would go around and do different things. And I was like, yeah, that sounds cool. um So I did. So, you know, my experience at a big firm, being like I said, big six, big four at the time was different than lot of people's because I did get like go out to a client right away.
00:05:46
Speaker
um and got to travel around. And it you know it was just really, really cool. um And so I was like, okay, I do like to travel. And I do really like to talk to people and be around people and help clients. Like I thought, this is this cool.
00:06:02
Speaker
So once a few years in to Coopers and Labyrinth, was when the merger happened, the PW and Cooper's Library merger happened and in the Raleigh office, the PW yeah office kind of was the leading um firm in the area.
00:06:19
Speaker
So it was very clear quickly that was not a place for me. um And actually, like in between, i worked for a family office for like a year, which was a cool experience, but again, not really, not really a fit for me.
00:06:34
Speaker
um and Blackman and Sloot, which is a firm in Chapel Hill, North Carolina, a great firm. um My mother-in-law actually saw a classified ad. This tells you how long ago it was.
00:06:49
Speaker
classified ad in the newsletter and a news in the newspaper that said, hey, we're looking for people who were a family-oriented firm and we're looking for people who have a sense of humor.
00:07:01
Speaker
And my mother-in-law was like, April, you need to apply to this job because that sounds just like you. And my husband was like, public accounting, really? And I said, oh gosh, i love public accounting. I just like to have to find my place.
00:07:15
Speaker
And it really was my place. um I never was an owner there, but i um ran my own book of business there. was about a 20, 25, 30 person firm.
00:07:29
Speaker
um i had clients like three of the years had clients that, you know, I had from start to finish kind of a thing. So I got to see a lot of the practice management issues. um Black Men Asleep was I would say, leading edge firm.
00:07:44
Speaker
from some from certain perspectives. Like they were right away, they would close at noon on April 15th. We um had deadlines for clients that were you know very, very strict.
00:07:59
Speaker
So some of the things that I talk about in um you know in my work I do today, like were things I learned from from there long, long ago. So that's that's pretty cool.
00:08:11
Speaker
um boundaries and client expectations and things. They were really good. They were really good at that. I was really poor at that because I'm a helper and a people pleaser, like, and I wanted to do all the things. And it was just, you know, it was really difficult for me.
00:08:28
Speaker
At the time, i was not really looking for another opportunity, but um tax season was hard
Joining AICPA and Member Support
00:08:39
Speaker
for me. I had a small child.
00:08:41
Speaker
yeah She was in elementary school at the time. And it you know, it just took a toll on me and a recruiter actually on ah October 16th. um of 2015, I just will never forget it because, ah again, wasn't looking, didn't have a resume updated, none of the things.
00:09:02
Speaker
um Reached out and said, hey there's this job at the AICPA and you would work in the tax practice and ethics team and you would help develop resources and you would um you know be member facing. And I was like, okay, I could see myself doing that.
00:09:19
Speaker
And um really, it just kind of like came together. So I feel like um I like to tell people that members and volunteers like you, Mark, are like my clients.
00:09:34
Speaker
So I, you know, it was hard for me to think about how am I going to lose this? Like, a bit I love to help people and and um talk to people and yeah learn about their stories and all of this.
00:09:47
Speaker
How am I going to, like, do that in a job where I sit at a desk and, you know, whatever, do a checklist and things? That would never have worked for me. But this job is um like i get I get to work with you, Mark. I get to work with other great volunteers. I get to you um talk to members at conferences. I just all of the things. And my role has definitely evolved.
00:10:13
Speaker
um But the core of what I do, I've been here almost a little over nine years. ah The core of what I do, which is helping AICPA members who are doing tax work. It's still the same.
00:10:23
Speaker
and just kind of do, know, I do some different things. And yeah, I got this great promotion, um which I'm, you know, happy to have. But again, like that's not core being is is helping people. And it's um it's been a great fit for me.
00:10:39
Speaker
Absolutely. And I know that, you know, my own experience of seeing what you do with, you know, not only myself and the and my firm, but everyone else, like you really provide that resource to people and you know, everybody in the world and which is crazy.
00:10:55
Speaker
Like how many people, you know, and i don't know if I know as many people as you do, Mark. I don't know. No, I think i think we i think we between you and I, we probably got it covered. but um yeah But I do know that like you know like you literally have this ability to connect with people in the accounting profession or even financial profession and really connect them to resources and tools and things. And I think that's it's just phenomenal.
00:11:18
Speaker
you know And I think you know it all starts back to you know you're in high school, you're like, hey, I like accounting. And then you kind of take it to... a big firm level and then you then you're into more of a you know local firm and and here you are now back on the national level of just really providing resources which I think is fantastic.
00:11:39
Speaker
Yeah. Thanks.
Challenges and Innovations in Tax Practice
00:11:40
Speaker
Now, when you think of the current state of tax practice management out there, yeah you know, as we see it, you know, obviously April 15th just hit. I'm sure people are either debriefing with their firms or their teams or thinking about, you know, the pain of it or how great it was either, either side they're on.
00:11:58
Speaker
But what are you hearing from firms right now as far as the state of tax practice management out there? Yeah, I think I think to talk about the state of tax practice management, you have to talk about the state tax in general right now, which is, mean, I don't know, dare I say chaos.
00:12:18
Speaker
um a little bit. Like, we don't know what's happening with with the IRS. Like, what what is the staffing levels going to be at the IRS? We don't know.
00:12:28
Speaker
um we know that there will likely be tax legislation. What that tax legislation will look like is hard to say at this point um you know they're really in the negotiations in the news all the time right about they've um come up with a framework and then now it's time to do the hard work the hard and dirty work which is write that legislation and you know do all the negotiation that needs to happen even though it's you know we know it's all going to come from one party because that's just the way reconciliation works and um
00:13:02
Speaker
and and the way the government is is aligned at the moment. But um it's still a very turbulent time, i would say, as far as tax. um The general feeling feel like I've heard from tax season is tax season wasn't bad.
00:13:20
Speaker
i mean, it's always not great. Cause it's cause workload compression is such a huge issue. Um, there is things like, uh, come out later and later. um you know, K ones, you know, coming out later and later. Yeah. Just all the things, the things, it seems like work is compressed into this like really small amount of time. And, and,
00:13:46
Speaker
And to me, I see practice management being the way to solve some of those problems, maybe not solve them and make it easy, but solve them and make it like so that um your're your practice is is is thriving and your staff are happy and your clients are happy and all the things. So I think that's that's why I think it's so important. Practice management is is such a huge part of the continuation and the thriving in this profession.
00:14:18
Speaker
um So i think, again, i talked about worldly compression, dealing with the IRS, just dealing with clients' demands. um I feel like world is...
00:14:33
Speaker
the world is hate being a negative. I'm not a negative person, but I feel like the world is mean than it used to be. i don't know if that's like a come out of COVID thing or what, but um people are just like not very nice to their service providers, whether that's, I mean, I feel like i hear a lot of stories about that, about, um you know, just, just ah clients being hard on CPAs and, and, you know,
00:15:01
Speaker
Could be that there's reasons, right? I had people mad at me sometimes and it was usually my fault because I hadn't done something I said I was going to do. i over promised, I under delivered all of those things, right?
00:15:14
Speaker
um So, but dealing with client demands is a huge deal. And just staffing in general is a hard puzzle to solve. Um, Getting that right mix of clients. and I know we're going to talk a little bit more later about technology and how that all wraps around.
00:15:33
Speaker
But um I think staffing is still like a huge, a huge concern for firms. Yeah, no, I had a debrief with an association where I kind of lead and you know there's probably like 60 firms that were part of the association on there. So I kind of led this conversation um yesterday. And one of the things that comes out of it is you got firms that are you know big and small and everywhere in between. And is we've got this April 15th deadline, right?
00:16:02
Speaker
And so everyone has this great system of getting tax returns from the business side kind of to a point by March 15th or even if they have to extend. But they got this, I call it, 30-day sprint from March 16th April that that you know, it's hard and it's I don't I don't care how great your system is and how well you have it well oiled.
00:16:26
Speaker
It is going to be a crunch. And so like i think you you brought it hit the nail on the head. You have complexity and the uncertainty of tax law. You have software demands, but you also have clients that have taken an approach of like Why am I not the most important thing? Are you not thinking about me 24-7 and making sure I'm completely served? And even though they know you work on so many other things, and I think in the profession, we're seeing more and more people that are are dealing with that.
00:16:55
Speaker
um One of the things that you know in the last five years, you know which would you know include pre-pandemic and then until now, like What would you say has changed the most in the firms or the way, you know, talking to everyone, you know, the way things used to be to the way things are now as far as the way they run their practices?
00:17:15
Speaker
Yeah, that's a great question. I feel like the thing that sticks out to me the that's changed the most in five years is technology. i'm Just, you know, Gen. AI, Gen. AI.
00:17:29
Speaker
Generative artificial intelligence um just has exploded and how, ah you know, you hear you hear us at the AICB talk about it all the time, like it firms that are going to be able to use that in a way that is ah helpful to them growing and and being efficient are going to be the firms that succeed and um are yeah on the other side of it. we're not We're not there yet because I think there's still a lot of learning and growing, but just like
00:18:03
Speaker
What AI can do is really just mind blowing to me and and and probably mind blowing to a lot of our listeners here today and scary.
00:18:14
Speaker
I mean, it's OK to say like this is a little bit scary, but you have to dig in and kind of, um you know, like. spend some time and figure out like, hey, where where are ways that we could, feel like that that's a good use of your younger staff to say like, hey, you know, what are some ways that you think that um but we could do things differently, ah you know, using technology?
00:18:42
Speaker
So I feel like that, the other thing that sticks out to me is um just the really explosion of um mergers and acquisition activity with firms today.
00:18:54
Speaker
um you know, if we just heard this week about, um I think it was Baker Tilly and... Moss Adams. Moss Adams. Yeah, i was blanking on that. Yeah, just, and I think it's happening.
00:19:08
Speaker
I mean, I know it's happening at small firm level too. um Just private equity and... And I think it comes from this, you know, systemic issue of, i mean, I'm going to say generational. You know, we've got the baby boomers who are retiring or want to retire.
00:19:28
Speaker
Maybe they didn't have the greatest succession plan in place. ah Private equity can solve some of that. But is that really, you know, it is consolidating a lot of firms really the best thing for our industry?
00:19:41
Speaker
um and Gosh, I think it's the jury's still out and it is hard to say. um so I feel like that's that's another like big change in the past five years. I don't feel like five years ago i heard a lot about, um yes, mergers, but not the private equity piece.
00:19:59
Speaker
Not like we see today where it seems like every week or every other week, there is some firm getting consolidated, right? And and i um' you know obviously my firm, we we're we're independent and we're not on the sale block. But I do know when I, again, I love to see how this plays out because it seems like people that I talk to that are going through this or have been through this process,
00:20:21
Speaker
are not happy on the other end necessarily of the new structure. and maybe it's just new and they got to get through the bumps and bruises of it. But um it is an interesting concept that it's everyone's headed that way, but no one seems happy when they're there.
00:20:34
Speaker
We'll see. yeah Yeah. I think we're ah we have a lot to learn um about it. So yeah. See, there we go. And I know a lot of firms that, you know, one of the things, you know, you mentioned staffing, but they're rethinking client service models, team structure, even how they define productivity.
00:20:54
Speaker
You know, do I work a lot of hours? Do we cut back? You know, there's all these different, everyone's got their own view on this. um Are you seeing trends in that area when talking to other firms? Absolutely. And some of that I think is a response to, you know,
00:21:09
Speaker
ah you know Another key buzzword that you'll you'll hear us talk about is pipeline concerns.
Staffing and Generational Work Preferences
00:21:14
Speaker
right so you know there And I don't like to get into this generational thing like, oh, this new generation doesn't like to work. no, no, no. We're not going to say that.
00:21:25
Speaker
um it People work differently and people have different values. focuses and things that they want to spend their life and time doing. And and that's okay.
00:21:36
Speaker
And we want this profession to to continue and thrive. And so we've got to find ways um you know, ways to make it work, right? So I've seen that in um like focusing on reducing hours um requirement, you know, like I'm from the old school of, you know, 55 hours minimum, that sort of thing. um You know, getting, getting firms getting away from, from that, right?
00:22:06
Speaker
um and providing more flexibility. I think that that's definitely. And then just, you know, refocusing. There's a lot of um another another change we've seen is just, you know, kind of ah comment, and i can't what is that word I'm trying to say?
00:22:27
Speaker
Yeah. making the tax return a commodity, right? So, um you know, if you're a firm that just does tax returns and that's the main service you provide to your clients, you're not doing accounting services for them. You're not doing planning services. You're not talking to them about their, um what other concerns they have are in their financial arrangements, like they're retiring or they're planning for college or things like that. So I think,
00:22:58
Speaker
um There have definitely been competition in the world of tax returns, like different people are getting into that market. And so I think that's another big change. um Great point, you know, that we're having to like pivot and figure out like, how are we going to address those problems?
00:23:17
Speaker
I know. And I, you know, you talk to, I'll talk to some firms and they'll say, we can't hire anybody. There's no one in the profession that wants to work and whatever their thought process is. yeah And I know we, we had 20 something new people start last year and it it made our tax season easier.
00:23:33
Speaker
We have another 20 graduates starting June 1st with us and 11 interns on top of that this summer. So like, like, you know, we, our view mean is a firm. Our view is let's just keep hiring, training up and developing that bench strength as we continue to rapidly grow, you know, that we need the young people to be there. And, and, and, but also at the same time, provide that flexibility of not overworking them and making them feel like this is crazy work, you know?
00:24:02
Speaker
Yeah. And, you know, making them, it's, it's a hard, it's a hard thing to figure out. Like you, no, we don't want them to like do data entry. like That's not really, like that's maybe how we learned, right? Data entry into a tax return, but there are other ways to learn and there are other ways to like um expand your, you know like get them in front of clients faster and you know maybe that helps them um you know be be ready to take more ownership.
00:24:35
Speaker
I don't know, you know there's there's there's not one way to fix this. But um yeah, i it's it's it's a dilemma for sure.
00:24:46
Speaker
Dilemma, 100%. hundred percent So shifting gears a little bit, you've helped roll out so many helpful tools um at the AICPA and One of the things I was thinking of is like, what are the reasons what are some of the resources that you wish more tax practitioners would take advantage of of these tools? Because, I mean, obviously you see things get updated, things rolled out, and you know you know what people use and don't use. What would you say? Hey, you should be using this stuff, people.
00:25:13
Speaker
Yeah, that's a great question. And thanks for thanks for providing me a platform to really talk about it. um I guess I have to say the first thing, i and I know a lot of people do take advantage of it, but I just like have to shout about it a little bit because it's kind of like my child, um which is the annual tax compliance kit.
00:25:35
Speaker
um It is, you know, it's got engagement letters. It has, you Organizers, which is a passion project of mine to make those organizers be more active.
00:25:49
Speaker
we'll probably talk in a little bit. i think that that's one of the um big challenges that firms have is like trying to figure out a way to get information from their clients. And our organizers could be better, but they are part of the the toolkit. And then checklist, the checklist are really helpful for due diligence purposes and and quality control, right? So you can, and they're a learning tool, right? They're a learning tool for If you're, um you know, if ah one of your concerns is how do how does my, how do my staff people who don't actually putting the numbers into the tax return, how do they learn how to do a tax return?
00:26:32
Speaker
Maybe a step is like as a reviewing the tax return, they can look at the checklist. So I think the checklist are are um a great tool that I hope people use um The other thing I was thinking of, it's not really a resource per se, but I but i like to talk to people about it is volunteering, volunteering with the ASCPA on a committee, on a task force. um I think it's a great way to see you know, selfishly, it's a great way to see like how much us, the staff like care about the profession and want the profession to, to improve and do better and, and thrive.
00:27:14
Speaker
um But also we couldn't do what we do without volunteers such as you, Mark. Mark helps, does so many things um for, for me and for the committee and for different groups within the organization. organization But um I think it's,
00:27:32
Speaker
Nunez- sometimes I hear like what's the ACP doing for me what if you volunteered, you would be able to see like the front lines of like what we do. Nunez- kind of what we're you know i'm my team doesn't do it, but if you're interested in advocating and advocacy type issues there's different groups over there so.
00:27:52
Speaker
um I think that that's ah really an underutilized. Not everybody can volunteer, not for time purposes. And, you know, there's limited, ah limited spots. Right. But, but still, I think that's a cool thing.
Resources and Support for Tax Practitioners
00:28:07
Speaker
And one more thing, if you'll let me have one more thing, yeah absolutely is our weekly tax section newsletter. So if as a tax section member, we put this newsletter out every Tuesday, we work really hard to make sure that it has like the late breaking news. And also it points you to all the new resources. So you don't have to go into the website and try to find, you know, all the new things or all, the you know, we really try to point you to those new resources, those updated resources, as well as upcoming events, upcoming CPE and that sort of thing. So those are my three that I ah would like to highlight.
00:28:50
Speaker
That's awesome. I love it. I think, you know i would say as a volunteer, I think in obviously getting to work with you is amazing, but also to see what, you know, different perspectives from around the country of firms that are you know Maybe it's a small 10-person firm or it's a large you know big four firm or just someone in between.
00:29:13
Speaker
It's just always great to work with people from different backgrounds, different diversity, and really get an idea of, hey, i'm you know when you when I take a step back and I come back and I say, hey, what have i learned?
00:29:26
Speaker
And I go to the you know my own firm and people, I say, guess what? Everything that we think is a struggle, they all think it's a struggle too. We're not alone. And sometimes its it's sometimes it's that second guessing. They go, you know what? We're in this and we're all moving in the same speed doing the things.
00:29:43
Speaker
And how do we learn to get better together? And I think I love that about the organization. Sometimes it is commiserating and... and Like, yeah, that really sucks.
00:29:56
Speaker
um You know, what have you done about it? Maybe there's nothing really to do about it, but it does feel better to be, you know, commiserating. yeah And late night conference discussions about tax and tax practice management is key. You really cannot put a price tag on that. That's right.
00:30:15
Speaker
Now, let's talk about your reimagining your tax practice webcast series. yeah This has become a go-to resource for so many firms trying to adapt, evolve, and thrive in this changing profession.
00:30:28
Speaker
And so from my perspective, can you share how the idea for the series came about and what gap were you seeing in the profession that you wanted to fill? And that's why you kind of launched it.
00:30:38
Speaker
Yeah, I knew this question was coming. So that's why I didn't say it was an underutilized resource because it truly is my favorite thing that I do. um And so the Reimagining Your Tax Practice series, it's a monthly series.
00:30:53
Speaker
um Generally, it's the third Wednesday of every month. I like to keep it on ah on a schedule. It's free for um anyone. um at it's It doesn't offer CPE, but it is free and available.
00:31:06
Speaker
It's meant to be a ah community of sorts is really what I think about it. but But to answer your question, how it started. ah So really the whole time I've been with the ASCPA, there's been discussion about Due dates, are the due dates right? You know, can we move April 15th as a due date of the tax return for all the reasons we've talked about before, right? Workload compression, um you know, helping help it make the profession more attractive.
00:31:40
Speaker
So um I was tasked with putting together a task force to talk about that issue, to talk about, like, did it make sense to on explore ah different due date for for the profession?
00:31:53
Speaker
Again, people have, people are all over the map on this. People are like, if you, you know, it should be, It should be June 15th and nothing else, you know, or it should be May 15th or, you know, and whatever. It can be a million different things.
00:32:08
Speaker
People are very passionate about it. But. but And because of that, that makes it hard. It makes it hard to get it right. Also, it's just like a very known date. And, um you know, moving, making things happen in the government is hard, right?
00:32:26
Speaker
So anyway, the task force got together. We talked about it. We really um met with some government officials. You know, we kind of talked through like, what what could this look like? What could the opportunities be? And I guess we came down to the our final um analysis is, yeah, maybe it could, maybe a different due date might help, but you know what would help right now?
00:32:54
Speaker
And that is um
00:32:58
Speaker
restructuring, again, back to the firm practice management, making, making your firm work for you instead of having your practice run you, you know, and having your clients run you. Make, Make sure that you're in charge.
00:33:11
Speaker
you're So you're saying, hey, I'm going to set these boundaries. I'm going to set these, like I talked about earlier, the deadlines. Or I'm going to set um you know that i don't do I don't take on any new clients during tax season. Or if I do, there are going to be extensions. So the idea in this task force, the task force is called the Tax Practice Resiliency Task Force.
00:33:35
Speaker
That's a mouthful. on We just said, you know, there's like a gap places for people to talk about these kinds of things.
00:33:47
Speaker
um Maybe there are some networking groups and different different communities and things, but wouldn't it be cool to have a place where, you know, we could have experts, firm experts, industry experts talk about things that you could do differently to make your firm work better.
00:34:10
Speaker
um so they've been going on these sessions um think they started in 23 i think that's right um lose track of time a little bit but uh they've been good Since 24 and 25, they've been on a regular schedule. So we get together, the task force, um which has a lot of great um you know people, people you know Chet Buckman, different people from in the industry who have really you know done some innovative things. And we just kind of brainstorm. like
00:34:44
Speaker
hey, what what are people struggling with? or and And I try to provide some opportunities for people to say like, hey, what do y'all want talk about? what what What are the topics that you're struggling with?
00:34:55
Speaker
We've talked about, we've had some burnout ones. We've had, I'm really excited about some upcoming ones. Starting in May of this year, we have a series going that's like four or five weeks groups of the of the sessions that are going to be about truly operating a firm.
00:35:16
Speaker
And probably small, like solo to... you know, 20 people, something like that, or probably bigger firms can come and you can definitely get ideas.
00:35:27
Speaker
But it's, you know, it's more focused on these smaller firms who um a lot of times they work in the business and i don't work on the business just because there's not, you know, they don't have any other option.
00:35:40
Speaker
There's no one else. You look around and it's like, well, who's going to do this work? I guess it's going to be me. we're going to kind of do a little series around that, about making sure you're focused on, um you know, your budgeting or ah what metrics, what metrics do you use to decide whether you're successful or you need to hire more people or that sort of thing.
00:36:05
Speaker
um Also, um we have one coming up on technology. Like, you know, we always do one on technology, but this one is more focused on like, you know, the firm's technology and what do you need to do.
00:36:19
Speaker
um We have a couple members who use EOS, Entrepreneurial Operating System, in their firm.
Enhancing Operations and Client Handling
00:36:27
Speaker
so I don't know if anyone is familiar with that. I'm not super familiar with it, but I'm looking forward to learning more about it and how they use it in a way um that um can help them streamline some and and make some efficiencies within their firm. So um I just think it is it is really is a really cool um environment and community. wherere really We encourage people to ask questions and chat amongst themselves during the meetings.
00:36:58
Speaker
So I would encourage you, if you've never been to one, I know Mark has been, but you know if our listeners, um again, it's free to it's free to everyone.
00:37:09
Speaker
um We'll I'll make sure that Mark has a has a way for us to put in the notes how to register for the for the sessions. And we'd love to we'd love to see you.
00:37:21
Speaker
Sounds great. And I think, you know, you've had so many powerful conversations already on the series. And then obviously what you have coming up, you know, regarding burnouts, staff retention, um client right sizing.
00:37:34
Speaker
How do you price these models for clients preparing for succession? All these things, which I think are themes that resonate with practice management out there. Right. yeah And so um when you look at that,
00:37:48
Speaker
And you've talked to different panelists and people that have presented. What is something that has stuck with you personally from all this as you've seen it and talked about? That's a hard one. That's a hard question. think.
00:38:03
Speaker
i think I think the thing that I always say is there's no one right way to to have ah have a firm. So don't let people say to you like, oh, you're doing that wrong. Like, no, it's not about that. It's about like, um you know, you can you can um find a way to make it work and fit for your goals and your lifestyle. So That's why I think and getting getting new ideas um in these sessions and getting like hearing from other people, talking to your peers.
00:38:38
Speaker
um I think that's the thing that has stuck out to me um the most is, you know, that there's it there's no one way to be a tax CPA.
00:38:51
Speaker
I think that's a great comment because I think there's sometimes the thought process, if I'm coming out of college or I've been in this under a certain structure already, that this is the only way to do it. And and there's so many different ways, so many different sizes. and And guess what? You may have a better idea that no one's even thought about that I think you know people need to just take a chance and go with sometimes. Yeah.
00:39:14
Speaker
Yeah. So when we talk about practice innovation and efficiency, which seems like is a common theme in the tax world, what are some examples of practice innovation that you've seen actually work that are not just talked about out there?
00:39:28
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. That's a great question. And um I think it's very practice specific, but ah have heard some really cool things that people are doing. um Specifically around, um I mentioned it earlier, like a real pain point is um you helping helping your client, providing your clients with a way to get information to you um in a way that that's not like them sending you text messages with pictures.
00:39:59
Speaker
I mean, come on. Yes. Just reducing friction, i'm reducing, you know, if if if you allow them to send you text messages with pictures, they're going to continue to do it because that's easy.
00:40:15
Speaker
But if you tell them very specifically, this is the way that you're going to get me information and it's through this app or it's through this portal um There's different ways. there's There's not, you know, one particular way, but there definitely are some really cool innovations in this, like in ways to get engagement letters back and forth.
00:40:34
Speaker
I think just reducing, you know, like I said, reducing friction in that area. I mean, this, I can't, I'm not a technology guru by any means, not even trying to be.
00:40:46
Speaker
But um when I left practice, so nine years ago, ah there was kind of the start of importing tax return data and auto flow and scanning.
00:41:00
Speaker
i just feel like that's almost like You have to. that's It's not a you can. I feel like it's almost like you have to. um It's just a way, you know, they've come. They're not perfect.
00:41:14
Speaker
The technologies aren't perfect, but I feel like um it just gets you started and it gets you to the way to get that, you know, that first level of data entry complete.
00:41:27
Speaker
And i think that's, I think that's cool. one I would agree. i think there's, you need to invest in the technology and try to make it, and use that technology to make your life easier.
00:41:38
Speaker
Yeah. I think a topic that comes up, I don't care whether when I came into the profession, which is probably the same time you came in the profession and where we are now is burnout.
Focus on Staff Well-being and Future Trends
00:41:49
Speaker
You know, and everyone's got their different, but burnout's a major issue. the The one thing I talk to people in this profession, and it's not every day, but, you know, if i call someone randomly on April 10th, they're going to tell me they may not be in the best of moods at times because they are worn out. Right.
00:42:06
Speaker
And now, so with burnout being an issue, especially after the April 15th deadline or whatever deadline, right? How are firms approaching staff well-being more intentionally now? Have you seen? Yeah, I feel like I definitely hear more about this. i'm You know, i don't even really like the term work-life balance. um But you have to you you have to talk about it and you have to think about it and and provide information.
00:42:33
Speaker
um You know, like what I value is flexibility. Like um I'm a professional and I, you know, if you hire me, I'm hiring me to do a job and let me do the job how I want to do the job.
00:42:49
Speaker
i give your, you know, anyway. So I think that um is a is a helpful way to you I mean, it that doesn't necessarily help with burnout, but it helps with like helping me feel like I am, um you know, allowed to kind of,
00:43:08
Speaker
find my own path, right? um And just, I think mental health support. I know, Mark, you do a ton of cool things at your firm with, you know, ah massages and things like that. Like that stuff is helpful.
00:43:22
Speaker
But at the bottom, i mean, at the bottom basic level, you have to make sure that people know that they need to take care of themselves, number one. Like if if they don't exist, if they, you know,
00:43:35
Speaker
if something happens to them health wise and they can't work, um then no one's happy. You're not happy. They're not happy. No, you know, so but you have to figure out, I think that's another, like not a one size fits all thing.
00:43:49
Speaker
You have to find like what makes them tick April. What makes you tick? What would make you, um you know, be happy to work here.
00:44:00
Speaker
um And, and, and I'll tell you, you know, it's this, this, and this. I think you've just got to be, rather than saying like, oh, this new generation, like they don't want to work and they need all this time off and they need, you know, whatever. It's like, don't know, we're going to meet you where you are and, um you know, help, help,
00:44:23
Speaker
help you figure out a way for you to succeed, but also like take care of yourself. So I think there's a lot of things. i don't think there's any magic bullet. ah Agree. I mean, you you mentioned it. I mean, the term work-life balance has always never sit well with me. And because the way I've always looked at is like, okay, tell someone, oh, just need to have work-life balance. And it's like, well, I don't even know, unless you explain to me what that means, I kind of rearrange it to say, I need to balance my work life. So like, and again, at certain times of the year, it's going to be a little bit more pressurized in other times of the year when it's not.
00:45:00
Speaker
And also learning to delegate. And I always say from the staff, You know, how do I teach them to balance their work life? It's learning to delegate, lean on others, ask questions. And when they know they have a support system, then they don't feel like they're under this gun to get all this work done and work all these hours.
00:45:18
Speaker
They feel like they can work less hours, get stuff done, and they know they're supported. I think, you know, again, everyone does it differently, but I think it's a good thing to do. Yeah. Yeah. So as we look forward a bit.
00:45:30
Speaker
ah Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. To the future. Now put your future hat on. What would, what should the next generation of CPAs be preparing for? I mean, what do they need to be learning now to succeed in the future? And I think you mentioned some of these things already. Yeah.
00:45:44
Speaker
yeah Yeah. We've talked about a lot of these things. um I just think of this profession as, um and I think it's, it's another reason it really ah is is a great profession for me is i am I'm a lifetime learner.
00:45:59
Speaker
Like I never think, oh, I've learned all this stuff, you know, close the book. on i i love, you know, reading new perspectives on things. So I think that's, you have to continuously want to learn and better yourself, whether that's better yourself professionally, um you know, work on work on your leadership skills, your soft skills, your communication skills, ah your technical skills.
00:46:24
Speaker
you You have to continuously want to improve yourself. Hopefully you're in a place where you're supported to do that. But I think that's critical to be able to, you know, succeed.
00:46:41
Speaker
um Also, I think, I don't think, I didn't do, I didn't have a great, no one taught me a lot about being client service.
00:46:53
Speaker
um ah focused. I mean, I'm naturally a helper and I think a lot of CPAs are, but um I think that's also an important piece of the future of the profession. Like you need to be client centric and focused. Like what, what, um,
00:47:15
Speaker
how can I help you rather than just like doing your tax return, crossing that off the list and, you know, calling it a day. Like you need to have conversations with, you know if you want to be in the tax world, I think you've got to be able to have conversations with people, ask the questions that they don't know.
00:47:33
Speaker
You know, they might not, if they're If they're not asking you questions, they might not know what questions to ask. You need to like figure out a way to have a conversation about things. So um think that's a really important feature um future part of the profession.
00:47:51
Speaker
Love it. Love it. So let's wrap up with a few quick hits, OK? Yeah. So what's one piece of advice you'd give someone stepping into a tax leadership role for the first time? Yeah. um To me, ah leadership role, I think the most important thing is flexibility.
00:48:11
Speaker
I think, um you know, you people are different and you're going to have to learn how to how to deal with a lot of different personalities. But, on you know working on your flexibility and communication skills, being a better communicator will help you in your professional life and your personal life.
00:48:30
Speaker
So I would say those things. I like those. that's Those are fantastic. What's one trend you think will define the next three to five years in the accounting profession?
00:48:42
Speaker
I know I said this was the thing that changed the most in the past five years, but I think I still have to lean on technology. I think technology is going to really just, I mean, I think it's going to continue to explode. And I think people who dig their heels in and say, no, I'm not doing that. I'm not leaning into that um are really going to get left behind.
00:49:03
Speaker
No, that I think agree with you one hundred percent. I mean, you got to stay on top of it and keep going. And even though it's opening your eyes to things you never thought of, this is how we make it better, right?
00:49:14
Speaker
Yep. So where can listeners follow your work and get plugged into the AICPA resources you've mentioned? Yeah. So I hope you will um ah join me on a reimagining your tax practice series. Again, we'll share the registration for that.
00:49:32
Speaker
You can also put out a podcast, Tax Section Odyssey, as Mark said, every two episodes a month. um There's one actually coming out tomorrow on tariffs. um We didn't even mention tariffs today, but um we did a 20-minute discussion on tariffs that we're talking about tomorrow.
00:49:52
Speaker
I'm not sure when this will be posted. So that's April the 24th is when it will be posted. um so um I'm also pretty active on LinkedIn. um So you can find me there, connect with me. I love um' ah love learning new things about people. i am um i'm I'm sort of silly um and and sometimes you know say silly things on there, but im i'm like I'm a big LinkedIn user.
00:50:22
Speaker
Well, thank you, April. And that's a wrap for another episode of the Tax News Now. Huge thanks to April Walker for joining me and sharing such valuable insight today. If you want to catch more of her wisdom, don't miss reimagining your tax practice series free for tax section members.
00:50:38
Speaker
And do you know you can earn CP credits for just listening to this podcast? Head to the link in the show notes to claim your credit. If you're already a prime CP subscriber, it's included. Just log in and finalize your credits.
00:50:50
Speaker
Thanks for tuning in and we'll catch you next time on Tax News Now where we talk tax meets real world action.