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Cool Careers in Accounting Ep. 9 - A Rising Tide: Growing & Inspiring Success with Dr. Amy C. Horner
217 Plays29 days ago
Amy Horner—CPA turned international speaker, podcast founder, and adjunct professor—joins host Spencer Payne to discuss her unique transition from accounting to strategic planning and operations. She encourages the importance of solid financial understanding as a basis on which to grow your career, and likewise believes that organizational success happens by involving team members at all levels. Her advice inspires professionals to persevere through setbacks and seek mentorships that raise up and inspire.
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Transcript
Celebrating Women's History Month
00:00:09
Speaker
Welcome to Women's History Month. We are excited to celebrate fantastic stories of incredible females throughout history and hopefully inspire others to carry the torch and have the next generation of fantastic stories as well. This podcast is an amazing opportunity to highlight ah phenomenal women's stories and again, continue to expire the next generation. So welcome and happy Women's History Month.
What is Amy Horner's role in accounting?
00:00:36
Speaker
Okay, here we are with another edition of Cool Careers in Accounting with Becker. I'm Spencer Payne here with Amy Horner. And Amy, could you help us help the audience understand where in this big accounting finance world, where where do you play? How do you introduce yourself to other people who kind of understand that world and understand all the niches and places that you can play in it? how do you introduce yourself?
00:00:58
Speaker
Great question. And as an academic, I would say it depends, which is our standard answer to just about everything. So I would typically introduce myself if I'm in front of an audience of people, I would say, hi, my name is Amy Horner. I currently live in Charlotte, although I am a native Pittsburgher. And so I bleed black and gold.
00:01:17
Speaker
I'm an international speaker. I'm a podcast founder and host. I'm also an adjunct professor. And if I'm in front of an accounting audience, I will say I'm a recovering accountant because that gets their attention and a few laughs.
00:01:32
Speaker
So yes, I do have my CPA, but I've spent the last 15, 16 years actually in strategic planning and an organizational transformation, mostly from the COO or the CFO role.
00:01:47
Speaker
I don't think I would be able to do those things as well as I can, or I think I can.
Advice for accounting students
00:01:55
Speaker
without that fundamental background in accounting.
00:02:00
Speaker
I have several accounting majors in my classes right now. And so I do tell them, stick with it. Even if you don't think it's what you want to do for your entire career, for the entirety of the time you're going to be contributing to the workforce, stick with it because the fundamentals that you have are so critically important.
00:02:19
Speaker
So beyond my time in the classroom, I really enjoy making an impact on others through teaching, leading, and motivating. that's my personal vision and mission statement. And something about me that I will often introduce that people won't know if I don't tell them is I am in the middle of a long-term goal to complete a road race in all 50 states.
Amy's personal goals and interests
00:02:41
Speaker
I have finished 45 plus the district. I am closing in on the finality of that.
00:02:51
Speaker
I got to step back for second. One thing I love about that introduction is that leaves the listener or listeners with so many interesting threads to pull. Like, oh, you're from Pittsburgh and moved to Charlotte. How'd you do that? Oh, you're a recovering accountant. What do you mean by that? How do you go from accountant to COO?
00:03:10
Speaker
Road races, how'd you get into that? Do you mean bike? Do you mean foot? And what are the five states left? Which ones are most? like There are so many places that a curious person could continue the conversation based on your two minute elevator pitch, um which makes it a fantastic introduction and elevator pitch. So thank you for giving for helping us all have a one on one on like how to introduce yourself.
00:03:32
Speaker
And I got to ask then the road races. What are they? Are they bike? Are they foot? And what are the states that are remaining and which is your most exciting state that you have not yet gone to that you can't wait to go to next?
00:03:45
Speaker
I am happy to answer that. One thing that you did just touch on is when you're introducing yourself to someone, in my experience, it will go better. And and just a hint to the listeners, when everybody anybody says,
00:03:58
Speaker
everybody says anybody says In my experience, that means you're going to get their opinion. So here's my opinion on how to introduce yourself to other people. Don't lead in with your title.
00:04:09
Speaker
Your title might be confusing to people. If you simply tell someone you're a COO or a CFO, a lot of people are just going to nod at you because they might not know what the acronym means.
00:04:19
Speaker
So tell them who you are, not the title that you hold. And you're right. Then we
Career journey from CPA to strategic roles
00:04:25
Speaker
have a handful of things to talk about. The road races combine my love of travel with my love of running.
00:04:32
Speaker
so As a college soccer player, I had to keep in shape. Running is something that I am able to do wherever, whenever.
00:04:41
Speaker
I wanted to celebrate my march toward my 50th birthday, which is coming up here sooner than I can really wrap my head around.
00:04:53
Speaker
I wanted to celebrate getting older and I wanted to celebrate still my capabilities. And so I decided to run a road race in all 50 states. I have two rules for this crazy little goal. Number one, I need to pay an entry fee.
00:05:05
Speaker
And number two, I need to finish whatever the race is. I don't have a distance goal. I don't have a, is this an official track goal? I simply need to show up and I need to finish.
00:05:17
Speaker
My remaining five states... Alaska and Hawaii. Those will be big trips. We can't get there in just a weekend. Nebraska and South Dakota and Montana.
00:05:30
Speaker
Awesome. um Phenomenal introduction. And now I'd love to hone in on another aspect of it, which is this recovering accountant piece. So can you shed a little bit more light on um maybe your path from CPA and accountant to operation roles, finance roles? Because to be a CFO or COO,
00:05:47
Speaker
c o o you kind of need a broader skillset and background than just accounting, right? So could you shed a little bit more light of kind of go back in that time of, hey, I'm an accountant. I've got a great background, but maybe I want to do something else.
00:05:59
Speaker
Help us kind of understand and and and put us in the shoes of how you were feeling at that time to say, all right, now I'm going to go into finance or
How has Amy's career evolved through innovation?
00:06:06
Speaker
operations. I'm going to try some other things given my background. What did you do next? How how how um many years into your career maybe were you around that time where you kind of thought, it's time to do a little something different.
00:06:17
Speaker
Help us understand that. I was thinking about this last night. i was in class and had asked my students how many times they thought they might change careers throughout their lifetime, which forced me to think about how many times I've changed careers throughout my lifetime. And when I say change careers, I really mean change the focus of the role.
00:06:37
Speaker
ah Right now I'm on seven and I'm not at this point quite yet, 30 years out of college. Well, I don't know what the math is there on my average, but it's obviously very low. That would probably make me a little bit unusual from a career perspective, be it accounting or anything else. I have changed quite a bit.
00:06:55
Speaker
I started my career with KPMG, so in the big four, although if I'm being honest, at the time it was big six, but just barely. I was so intrigued.
00:07:06
Speaker
We still had to ask questions in person of people and handwrite answers. We didn't have the amazing software capabilities and remote audit that people have now.
00:07:20
Speaker
I was just so fascinated in talking to leaders of organizations about how the organizations ran. and what the challenges were that they were going through.
00:07:31
Speaker
i probably spent significantly more time on in-person client interviews than I should have. It really opened my eyes to life beyond the debits and credits.
00:07:45
Speaker
I love the story that a strong set of financials tells us. I was so much more energized by understanding day-to-day goes into fueling those financials.
00:08:01
Speaker
Because every decision we make as a business owner or as a business leader shows up in the financials. We spend money on the things we're doing or we make money in order to do them.
00:08:13
Speaker
So you will see the results of that day-to-day, the strategy, the operations, the tactics, the execution in the financials. And I became so intrigued by that.
00:08:25
Speaker
When I left public, I went into a controller role where it was incredibly operational. I have not keyed a whole lot of journal entries in my career, in my lifetime. I'd like to think I can still do it.
00:08:38
Speaker
Debits left, credits, right? Do I still have it? I think so. think so. I think so. keep plenty of journal entries backwards. That's a story for another podcast. So when I first got out of school,
00:08:52
Speaker
I was so lucky in that first controllership role right around when we were hitting 2000. Do you remember what was happening? Y2K, all the computer systems were going to crash, particularly the accounting systems.
00:09:08
Speaker
And where I'm saying I was lucky is I was one of the people that was appointed to the innovation task forces that were in my organization to understand how to modernize things instead of doing them the way they had always been done.
00:09:23
Speaker
And so not only was there operational component, there was an innovation component. And I already liked to change and things that were different. And so that's really, and those were the first five years of my career.
00:09:34
Speaker
That's the foundation or the blueprint of why I do think I had a cool career in accounting.
Excitement about strategic change dissertation
00:09:40
Speaker
I am not a one path person. Yep. Awesome. And given all of that and all that change, what what professionally is keeping is is energizing you are you looking forward to or say the next three, six, 12 months, you know, pick your timeframe. Like what what's what's next? yeah We just had the rap sheet of all this all this twists and turns. Like what's what's next? What's energizing you for the next three to 12 months?
00:10:07
Speaker
As we stand here, you and I are both standing. I know that we're at our standing desks. As we stand here today, i am less than three weeks from defending my dissertation for my doctorate to my dissertation committee.
00:10:21
Speaker
At the heart of my dissertation is strategic change, which is the outcome of a strategic plan.
00:10:29
Speaker
The pace of change in any environment, any business environment, be it manufacturing, professional services, nonprofit, healthcare, care you name it, has accelerated to a point where it never stops.
00:10:46
Speaker
And some changes don't even end before the next one begins. So what I'm so excited about in the next three to 12 months is helping people navigate their way through what is coming at them.
00:11:00
Speaker
Regardless of whether or not we all ever get comfortable with it, we have to be good at it or maybe really good at it. Because there is never going to really be a time where we can catch our breath, particularly those of us who have worked for a while where that's something that we were accustomed to The wheel is going to continue to move at a rapid pace and we need to get good at handling that.
Early career challenges and growth
00:11:27
Speaker
On that note, you mentioned, you know, being on the innovation team, Y2K, one of those first roles out of big four, and now your dissertation's on on kind of strategic change. ah Do you have a favorite change story? do you have a favorite ah moment at ah at a company, client, et cetera, personally,
00:11:45
Speaker
where you know you know there's a change coming. You had to rally people who maybe wanted to resist it. You had to sell a vision around what it's gonna look like on the other side and get people to believe in it and go through it.
00:11:56
Speaker
um That can be really hard, right? Like sometimes they sometimes strategic change fails, not because it wasn't the right idea, but because people just resisted and they weren't on board. So out of curiosity, do you have a favorite story of change?
00:12:11
Speaker
ah Many. Collaboration is key. wherever you are in the change initiative, leading it in the middle of it, working on it, executing it, receiving it.
00:12:25
Speaker
A change initiative is absolutely doomed to fail. if it is developed in a vacuum. And by that, I mean a small group of people that only consider their lens, their viewpoint, and their experience.
00:12:40
Speaker
There are individuals in every single organization who are leaders that might not have the title that as change agents and change leaders, we absolutely need to make sure that we invite them into those conversations.
00:12:54
Speaker
It gives them ownership over the change that is coming. They're contributing to it. But it also makes the change that much better. To be blunt, if your change initiative is developed with your C-suite employees and handed out to everyone else in the organization, never gonna it will not work.
00:13:17
Speaker
The rebellion and revolt that you will receive if you're that C-suite leadership team, will be ah the echoes will continue for years to come.
00:13:29
Speaker
So involving those people and the people that do the work, they know what can be more efficient. They know what can change. They have ideas. We need to do a good job of building the platform to bubble those ideas to the surface and have those ideas become part of whatever our change initiatives are.
00:13:48
Speaker
So I would say that's not a single story on change. That's more of an approach to change. yeah I got into change. I mentioned I started my career at KPMG. Six months on the day I started in Pittsburgh, Westinghouse was acquired by CBS.
00:14:07
Speaker
Westinghouse was a huge client for KPMG Pittsburgh. And you know at the turn of the century, when we still like banged together rocks, it was a long time ago. We didn't have the technology we had now.
00:14:20
Speaker
The individual offices of the big four accounting firms were very siloed. We weren't really able to work remotely, if at all.
00:14:31
Speaker
And so
Learning from failures and defining success
00:14:32
Speaker
that was my first day. That announcement was made within six months. um My office went through a 15% reduction in force, and I was caught up in that.
00:14:44
Speaker
This was four plus years of my life wanting to get this big four job.
00:14:51
Speaker
And instantly at the age of 22, I found myself without it.
00:14:57
Speaker
I could roll with that. And take it as an opportunity. And that's what I did. So for me, really, when you ask, what is my personal favorite story on change?
00:15:08
Speaker
Very young, I learned. I didn't even know what a reduction in force was when this happened to me. But very early on, when I was very young, I learned that there are going to be things that happen to us that we have zero control over.
00:15:21
Speaker
what we do have control over is what happens next. What did you do next? I found a recruiter. faxed him my resume.
00:15:33
Speaker
And I came down to Charlotte and I interviewed here. I received ah multiple job offers. I picked the one I was the most comfortable with. And I took it as an opportunity to move.
00:15:46
Speaker
Awesome. And it would be fair to say that there are so many ah stories and examples in people's lives where this thing that seems bad or this thing that seems like a setback or a mistake or whatever in the moment can feel that way and actually sets the stage for something better than you thought was possible. Is that is is is this one of those stories? like Without that, I'm guessing you wouldn't have moved to Charlotte. You wouldn't have found multiple job offers. like Is this one of those stories of like this thing that looks like failure actually ends up helping you succeed in a completely different way that ended up being better than you thought?
00:16:20
Speaker
Absolutely. i may never have left my hometown. I have tremendous love for my hometown. And I might still be there instead of having the opportunity to explore and live in different places.
00:16:33
Speaker
Charlotte is not the only place I've lived outside of Pittsburgh. So that for me was ah just a tremendous catalyst for doing something different. I knew I could always go home if I wanted to go home. Yeah.
00:16:43
Speaker
But why not take the chance and try something new? Yeah. And if I may, you mentioned earlier having maybe seven different careers in this 30-ish year career. And it's entirely possible, right? That one thing that helped allow that to happen was this one very early in your career was forced upon you.
00:17:00
Speaker
You saw you could do it. If I can do that, what else can I do? Right? And sometimes we don't have that until we're forced into that experience and you get through it, you swim and you realize like, I can do that again.
00:17:12
Speaker
Like the downside doesn't seem so hard. Look what I just did. I could do that again. So that that may have set you up for this incredibly cool career where you've had seven different careers in your 30 year adventure. i I think that's very true. And I also advise people when we try something new, what is the worst thing that can happen?
00:17:30
Speaker
We either succeed or we learn to do it differently than the way we first approached it. F-A-I-L, first attempt in learning. That's what happens when we fail.
Balancing professional and personal life
00:17:43
Speaker
yeah And sometimes that fail means that whatever that thing was doesn't move forward. But oftentimes it means it moves forward with a different approach.
00:17:54
Speaker
Yeah. um On this note of bad that turns into good and this you know multi ah different career paths, do you you generally enjoy your work, your life, kind of have a good balance? And maybe could you help?
00:18:09
Speaker
Like, how is that trended over time? Right. There's always a big. work-life balance and do I and want to have it all, et cetera, et cetera. um Sometimes you've got to put in the work a little bit first to then set yourself up for more freedom later. But can you just help us understand your path to kind work-life balance?
00:18:24
Speaker
how How have you balanced those two? do you generally enjoy work, life, career, et cetera? Maybe how has that trended over time? I mean, working hard is hard work. If there's something that we really want to go for and we set the plan and we set the goal and we move towards it and we collaborate with others. And and in many cases we sacrifice in order to get there because working hard is hard work.
00:18:50
Speaker
had to try to say this like succinctly and sounding like I'm not giving too heavy of an opinion. We can do, you and i anyone can do whatever it is we want to do.
00:19:03
Speaker
So defining success and defining happiness should start with us individually. i think a lot of times when we see people who get into situations where their work life isn't balanced or they're not defining what they're doing on a daily basis with satisfaction and happiness, they may be following someone other someone else's path for them.
00:19:23
Speaker
And I think that's a lot of, very simplistically, what happens when we see people move to burnout. I don't know a whole lot of people that want to work 80 to 120 hours a week consistently, unless it's something they're incredibly passionate about. And they're saying this needs eight weeks of my utmost attention, but the reward on the other side will be there.
00:19:45
Speaker
yeah you you You asked what is job happiness and do I enjoy what I do? I'm an extrovert. Shocker. We've been talking for 20 minutes. or so minutes I gain a lot of energy through collaborating with other people.
00:20:01
Speaker
This is probably why I didn't last very long as an accountant, because a lot of times when you're doing accounting work, you're doing it by yourself.
Impactful contributions at U.S. Soccer Foundation
00:20:08
Speaker
yeah Getting into operations, getting into innovation, leading change, you are working with other people in order to make those things happen.
00:20:17
Speaker
Though I really do enjoy what I do. Getting into the classroom has been something that I always thought that I wanted. ah goal I set a very long time ago.
00:20:28
Speaker
I've been really present pleasantly surprised how much I enjoy it. and How much I enjoy the energy that comes with people who haven't yet entered the working world.
00:20:41
Speaker
Do you remember how excited you were when you were a junior or senior or high school or not high school of college? um I'm going to start making money someday. going to get out of this crummy, run-down place. I'm going to actually get paid. They're gonna pay me? going to paid finally? Yeah. i'm go Maybe I'm going to move to a new city. Like, yeah, it's a very exciting time.
00:20:58
Speaker
going to be independent. I'm going to do what I want to do. There's just so much energy and vigor. My friends are all doing something very similar. Like I'm in that room several times a week and it is contagious.
00:21:10
Speaker
Yeah. And it's really been very refreshing. um On on the the note of maybe some more specific moments or or stories as you look back across this this multiple careers in one lifetime, do you have anything that you look back on in particular of like a coolest, most enjoyable, memorable, proudest accomplishment? Like, is there is there anything that you look back on and thinking about maybe what you or your team did it's still kind of just like makes you, makes you smile and maybe light up of like, that was, that was a great team or that was a great thing we did. Does does anything come to mind of kind of proudest, most enjoyable moments?
00:21:44
Speaker
Actually I have two. And we're talking about corporate contribution moments. yeah The first one is i worked for the U S soccer foundation, largest charitable arm of soccer here in our country.
00:22:00
Speaker
for eight years in total. So a handful of years at first is a fractional, a few days a week. And then for about three years as a full-time employee.
00:22:11
Speaker
When I first started full-time with the foundation, it was a little bit smaller. And because we were going through such robust growth, that is what gave me an opportunity to come on board full time.
00:22:26
Speaker
As a college soccer player, I can tell you that working in soccer for a charity that is a ah sports-based youth development organization, absolute highlight of my career. The impact that I remember as one of the proudest moments is because I was there and because of my time, my expertise, and my energy and efforts,
00:22:47
Speaker
I got to help with new funding streams, securing several new funding streams. We all love revenue diversification, right? This is an accounting podcast. yeah
00:23:00
Speaker
More money coming in than had come in in the past. Development of new programs. which means larger impact on people. So the foundation typically serves those who are in under-resourced communities through after-school programming.
00:23:16
Speaker
So giving kids the opportunity to learn about physical fitness, nutrition, giving them a mentor, keeping them a safe place after school. And so by being able to bring in more money, because we could show good, not only programmatic stewardship, but financial stewardship,
00:23:33
Speaker
the the impact and the ripple effect of that will continue on for these families longer than I will ever know. Right. And so I would say that is certainly one of them. The second one for the organization I most recently worked for as a full time employee.
00:23:48
Speaker
When I started, this was an accounting outsource and research outsource organization. When I started, they were having concerns with turnover at the junior levels. So the two to five year level.
00:24:01
Speaker
And I read exit interviews, which sometimes you can get more information out of than others. But what we found a pattern of is needing to tackle is not clear mentorship, right? Supervisors, sure, but not mentors.
00:24:19
Speaker
Conflicting professional development plans, right? So people were able to build their own instead of moving through matriculating together, which is typical in a professional services firm.
00:24:30
Speaker
And then I think also lack of clear upward trajectory. And so in taking that information, i put together a task force, a handful of people. We developed an internal university, not only to address professional development skills, aka soft skills, leadership skills, but also to streamline the way things were being taught from a technical perspective.
00:24:53
Speaker
We developed a mentorship program and it made sure that through coordination between the mentors and the supervisors, people had a clear idea of what it took to get promoted.
00:25:04
Speaker
So what is so interesting to me when I reflect on that, I said in my introduction that my personal vision and mission is to have a positive lasting impact through teaching, leading and motivating.
00:25:17
Speaker
And so when i look back on those two items, that's exactly what was being done. So a very full circle moment preparing for this question. And I really appreciate you asking it.
Opportunities beyond traditional accounting roles
00:25:29
Speaker
Yeah, awesome. And I do want to also highlight the concept of ah being a collegiate soccer player, studying accounting, that now grants you a little bit of a superpower um because every organization in the world needs accounting help, right? And it seems like you even parlayed that into helping to also drive revenue, you were passionate about, et cetera.
00:25:48
Speaker
But the point I want to highlight, and I've heard other people describe this is, know, if you have a passion for something, um whether it be sports, the music business, whatever it is, right? Like,
00:25:59
Speaker
This is an underlooked aspect of studying accounting is all of those businesses need solid accounting, help, work, employees, strategic vision, et cetera. And if you really like that and maybe you don't have the talent, like I would have loved to play major league baseball. Not good enough. Right.
00:26:13
Speaker
But like every one of those teams needs accounting help. Right. And so that can potentially be your ticket into the world that you want to play in because they're all going to need that skill set. And so you got to marry that up. And I just want to highlight that because that's, I think, an underutilized thought process here is every business needs accounting help.
00:26:30
Speaker
If you have a passion, that that business is probably going to need your skill set if you go down the accounting path. um Every legally registered organization has to produce financials. There you go. Profit, nonprofit doesn't matter, right?
00:26:43
Speaker
um And on the other end of that spectrum, any you know tougher times in your career, you just you hit on one early of kind of that very early in your career reduction in force.
00:26:54
Speaker
um I don't know if that's the one or if there are others, but is there any any tough times you look back on? um And, you know, maybe you're glad you handled it the way you did. You wish you handled it differently. But again, it's not always roses. You can't always get everything you want. But any tough times in your career? And how did you handle it? And and knowing what you know now, is there anything that you might do differently?
00:27:15
Speaker
Such a tricky question, because as humans, I think we're programmed to always look back and say, ah should have done yeah X, Y or Z differently. know, I do think that.
00:27:28
Speaker
Doing a better job of documentation. I'm not talking about like CYA type of documentation, but doing a better job of either journaling or documenting what went well and what didn't go well.
Importance of documenting reflections
00:27:42
Speaker
I'm a believer of milestoning and reflecting once we get to milestones through any process, goal setting, strategic planning, implementation, what be it.
00:27:54
Speaker
I'm really poor at documenting those items. So when we think about, when we reflect in a milestone, we think what went well, what should we repeat in the next phase? What didn't go well, how should we adjust our approach for whatever's coming at us, next phase, next steps?
00:28:11
Speaker
Having those conversations reflecting on that is fabulous. But the second step in the process is the documentation so that we can think through it, adjust to it, truly apply it,
00:28:23
Speaker
I'm very bad at that. yeah i'm I'm admitting it in a podcast recording. And so I would say when I look back on any situation where I think to myself, I could, should, would have done that differently, it comes back to documenting that reflection so that it takes deeper root.
00:28:43
Speaker
Yep. Yep, got it. Which again goes back to how many times have you, I, audience member sat in on a speech you know, listen to somebody say something like, that was awesome. I can't believe what I did. And then like two weeks later, but what did what did you do about it? How did you turn that great feeling you left that speech or that movie or that session or that training with?
00:29:08
Speaker
And two weeks later, what did you what did you remember? What did you implement? um yeah And so that that documentation piece is critical. And you don't have to do all of them. Right. But if there's 10 things inspire you and you don't, you didn't do all 10 of them, right? Like maybe it's time to write that down of like, what am I going to do this time differently? So that a month from now, I'll still remember this and I'll be executing my work, my personal life, whatever it is a little differently, because I knew in the moment I wanted to do something.
00:29:34
Speaker
do I carry that forward into action? It's all about action. And I, and I like that, you know, tying it back to baseball, a great hitter. What's a batting average for a great hitter, Spencer?
00:29:46
Speaker
I mean, you're going to the Hall of Fame when you fail seven out of 10 times and you get a hit only three out of 10 times. You're not only good, you're a Hall of Famer. thirty percent 30%. So back to your 10 examples, if you're able to document three of them,
00:30:03
Speaker
Hall of Fame performance. yeah We don't have to be perfect all the time. And I do think you know that's an interesting element that everyone falls into. In my experience, right? Amy's opinion. We learned that one early.
00:30:17
Speaker
We all fall into the perfection trap, either perfection or nothing. But we just learned that you're going to the Hall of Fame if you can do something 30% of the time very well.
00:30:28
Speaker
And imagine if we apply that, how much further we can each go. Yep. 100%. hundred percent um And maybe that that was something that you maybe didn't do consistently in your career. Look back, reflect.
Effective goal-setting strategies
00:30:40
Speaker
but um How am I going to do this better? um We all have those. But maybe are there any things that you have consistently done in your career that you think work really well for you? And maybe you're surprised other people don't do those things more frequently or you wish that habit that seems to work really well for you might rub off because it just seems to work really well. Does anything stand out for you?
00:31:00
Speaker
Yeah, a ah big believer in goal setting for myself and for most others. ah It does not work for everyone. But for me, i like to think about the things that I want the dreams I want to chase, the accomplishments or the achievements that are important to me. And about every six months, I will document those.
00:31:24
Speaker
Here's where I'm good at documentation. So between Asana, which is project management software, OneNote, and my Outlook calendar, I use those three items as my kind of tactical application of how to make sure I'm progressing towards and achieving my goals.
00:31:44
Speaker
I don't want to sound ostentatious with this, but there's very rarely something I want that I can't pursue successfully. And the reason is because I'm so disciplined and dedicated to documenting what that is, putting it into actual steps and following them.
00:32:03
Speaker
So for me, that's a game changer. And I have a lot of people who will observe, you really have several things going on at one time. I get the comment or the question often, when do you sleep or how do you sleep?
00:32:16
Speaker
And I say, I sleep very well because that's part of my routine, it's part of my schedule. And if I don't, then I can't do the things I want to do. So for me, really, the the most important thing I can do is once I set my sights on something, create the plan, walk the path, milestone along the way, and move towards achievement.
00:32:39
Speaker
And out of curiosity, do you visualize that in some way? Like, for example, there's there's some, I can't remember off the top my head with it's called, but there's these like, you know, annual calendars, people print out really big where every week, you know, it's easy to visualize and you mark off with a green, like, yes, I did my four things this week. Like, do you visualize that in in any way or you just kind of come back to the written notebook every week every couple
How do project management tools aid in goal tracking?
00:33:00
Speaker
weeks or months? Or how do you how do you actually, how do you see your progress or lack of progress?
00:33:05
Speaker
Yeah. So I'm in a sauna, which is the project management tool I use. I put my significant milestones in there and then there'll be miniature milestones. And when you complete one, when I complete one, I get to check this little box and some sort of fictitious animal cartoon will fly across the screen with rainbow and glitter. I'm not even kidding. This, this certainly motivates me.
00:33:28
Speaker
Sometimes they're unicorns. Sometimes they're narwhals. Narwhals.
00:33:33
Speaker
it's it's silly but it works and so how i visualize it is that mean combination of my calendar i do write my nose my um my goals in one note every year so that i can make sure that i can see that documentation i'm creating that that plan you're talking about vision boards i have several friends that are really into vision boarding which is where you cut out things in newspapers and you put them up in front of you I've never done it.
Memorable CPA exam moment
00:34:00
Speaker
so I don't know whether or not it would work for me because what I am doing does work. and So that's kind of, you know, if it works, it works. yeah Awesome. And then last question on kind of stories in your career.
00:34:12
Speaker
um But anything strike you as just a wildest, craziest, weird weirdest real story in business that you look back on and maybe you even still think like, I can't believe i can't believe that actually happened.
00:34:25
Speaker
And it's okay if if you can't share names or places or exact years or locations, that's fine. But does anything strike you as far as that that question of you look back on that that happened that you might say like, I still can't believe that actually happened?
00:34:38
Speaker
From a business perspective, I am honestly surprised that I can continually be surprised. You would think after almost 30 years, I would have seen everything and experienced everything and maybe either anticipated it coming or am not quite as surprised as I was the first time I saw it.
00:34:54
Speaker
But you know ors I said this last night in class, organizations don't behave, people do. and So we're often responding to other people's behavior. i would say is like Amy's not greatest hits at some of these stories. But, you know, one of the craziest things that happened to me actually happened while i was taking the CPA exam.
00:35:15
Speaker
And this is a true story. It took me many, many times, Spencer and listeners, many times to To pass my final part of the CPA exam. And when I was a candidate, the exam was still offered only twice a year.
00:35:29
Speaker
First week of May, first week of November. It was a paper exam. We showed up with our number two pencils and our approved calculator. And we ripped open our booklet. We filled in our Scantron bubbles. and And at this time, was it also like that you have to take all four at the same time?
00:35:46
Speaker
Yes. And so I'm down to my last part. And I only had to show up for my last part. And it was I was still a Pennsylvania candidate because I kept my Pennsylvania candidacy even though I had moved to Charlotte for reasons that anyone who's gone through the exam understands. We just keep it simple.
00:36:03
Speaker
So I traveled to Pennsylvania. It was November. It was the November exam time. And I was there for my last part. and it was It was FAR, which I believe was offered in the afternoon. At least that's how I remember it. And in Pennsylvania in November, it's usually winter. And this particular week is like a beautiful almost summer day.
00:36:22
Speaker
And in the North, as you know, when we have odd weather that we don't expect, we do not use the HVAC. yeah We do not use it. And so the way that the maintenance staff of the convention center where i was taking my exam decided to deal with this unusually warm day was to open the cargo bay doors.
00:36:42
Speaker
In the exam center, we were all seated at these big folding tables, these extended card tables that you see when you go to ah to a convention hall. Two people per table, one at either end.
00:36:56
Speaker
I was at the very back of many, many rows of these tables. And behind us, that pipe and drape that you see when you go to a convention center is strung around the room. I don't know if it was to keep other people out or if it was to keep us in, but it was there.
00:37:14
Speaker
Yep. And when a very nice gust of refreshing wind came through those cargo bay doors, it turned that pipe and drape into a sail.
00:37:25
Speaker
And this thing came straight down, landed six inches behind my chair, no embellishment. If I had not been tucked all the way up, it would have bonked me on the head. And when metal falls to the ground, it makes a very loud noise. And when you're scared and you're not expecting it, you might scream.
00:37:44
Speaker
in a very quiet room of people taking the most important professional exam of their life. I jumped so high, I think they're still scraping pieces of me off the ceiling of that convention center in Western Pennsylvania.
00:37:56
Speaker
We were not allowed to get up from our chairs in the first hour of the exam. So the proctors come back, they make sure I'm still alive. I have to calm myself down and finish this test.
00:38:16
Speaker
It worked. I passed my last part. I found out a few months later. When I tell that story, people are like, that story sounds impossible. And I just smile and I say, my career is littered with stories like this.
00:38:30
Speaker
And all of our careers are. There is something unique and unimaginable that's happened to every single one of us.
00:38:40
Speaker
It's always fun to look back on. I'm sure in that moment, I was not smiling. and No way. No chance. Great. Going crazy. how how Deep breaths. Nothing is working. Oh my gosh, how am I going to pass? I can imagine all the self-talk going through there of like, they're conspiring against me. i'm going to have to come back up here again in May. oh There's probably a million ways your mind could spiral out of control in that moment.
00:38:59
Speaker
Well, and we were also coming up on the transition from paper to electronic exam. So the clock was ticking. I needed to get it done. Yeah.
Preparing for the CPA exam
00:39:08
Speaker
Oh, awesome. Sorry to hear that, but you got through. Maybe it was weirdly the exact like left turn that you needed to to pass. It sounds like you did.
00:39:17
Speaker
A couple more quick hitter questions while we wrap up. um You just mentioned the the CPA exam, um but when like when did you knock it out kind of before full-time work, working full-time, but more importantly, like in the classroom when you're in front of your accounting students today, how do you recommend they approach the CPA exam these days?
00:39:36
Speaker
um you know Knock it out that last semester of college, summer before, or as much as possible, wait till work. how How do you ah recommend and what's the feedback that they have of the students that you've had maybe pass or not pass that they might share with your students now of of what their approach should should be for that CPA exam?
00:39:56
Speaker
My experience was that for the handful of years I spent in public accounting, I didn't make any traction on passing the exam. I do not put the responsibility of that on public accounting. That was 100% on me. My own maturity and self-discipline needed to level up so that I could buckle down and do what I needed to do.
00:40:15
Speaker
I did take a review course. I took Becker. It was Becker Convisor then. This is not a pre-planned plug. For Becker, i would never have been able to pass without the structure that Becker had put in place for candidates.
00:40:32
Speaker
It was really muscle it out for me. I'm not a great test taker. And that muscling it out, like that that's where working hard is hard work. and And that's what I really had to get into. I do tell my students that I don't recommend that people try to knock it out while they're still in college.
00:40:52
Speaker
In my opinion, when you're in college, your job is to be in college.
00:40:59
Speaker
If you can manage to do it In between college and either when starting a job or when those job responsibilities become like adulting really real, that seems to be the best time to knock it out.
00:41:15
Speaker
I know plenty of people who didn't start working on the exam until they were in their 30s. They were in a mature, committed relationship. They may have already had a family and they found a way to do it.
00:41:25
Speaker
So when we really want things, we will find a way to fit them in. Yeah. um And again, given you've had this meandering career starting in accounting, you said recovering accountant who's now teaching accounting students, you might get to do this already, but what is the number one piece of advice you might give for accounting majors who maybe in their last year or maybe folks who were accounting majors who were in their first year in the working world? it's kind of like You know, when they're asking you, I'm sure, what does it take to be what does it take to be successful? What should I be thinking about? what What's that advice that you're giving those students today, given that you're in a unique position that you're probably giving this advice maybe every week? So what's what's what's the advice that you give to those accounting, say, seniors or first years to to be successful, quote unquote, in in this career?
00:42:12
Speaker
Think about what you want your path to be. The one path phenomenon is really not the way to happiness for everyone.
00:42:25
Speaker
Define what you want your career to look like. Find a mentor inside your firm or inside the profession who you can bounce ideas off of. Because when we're young, reckless renegades, we make mistakes that we don't even realize are mistakes.
00:42:43
Speaker
Because we just don't have the experience or the the cultural EQ to know that we might be making a misstep. So define what you want, know what you want your career to be, and find a mentor that will that will help you navigate that.
00:43:02
Speaker
Yep. Awesome. And just because you mentioned changed earlier and pace of change, how, if at all, are you using AI in your work or personal life today? Yep. Well, we've heard that i'm I'm a gadget gal, so I'm really heavily software dependent to get things done.
00:43:20
Speaker
I use ChatGPT quite a bit. And i encourage other people to use ChatGPT where it can give them efficiencies. So writing the scope of a podcast interview set of questions, you could easily drop your guest's bio into that and say, hey, ChatGPT, I'm going to be interviewing this person.
00:43:42
Speaker
What are some topics that he, she, we can talk about? Thank you letters. I get asked to write many letters of recommendation for
Why is accounting a foundational career path?
00:43:52
Speaker
students. I put in there four bullet points of what impresses me about the student.
00:43:57
Speaker
ChatGPT will put together a full letter for me before I can blink. There are so many ways that we can be efficient. I know that many people might consider ChatGPT butting up against some ethical boundaries, but if it's used properly, it just saves us such an incredible amount of time.
00:44:16
Speaker
and Awesome. And just a couple more real quick ones. Knowing what you know now, where you are in your career, would you still go down the accounting slash CPA path and recommend it for others?
00:44:27
Speaker
A thousand percent. Yes, I would. I am saddened and dismayed that our numbers continue to be down for enrollment, although they are starting to rebound in certain universities, which is wonderful.
00:44:41
Speaker
And it gives us, I think, great hope for the future. But it really is that set of fundamentals. And I do think as seasoned career professionals, it is our role to do a good job of saying, you might not like debits and credits, but that's not 40 years of debits and credits.
00:45:00
Speaker
yeah It is learning the fundamentals. It's understanding how to read the financials. It's seeing how the day-to-day operations of the organization feed into those debits and credits that make you a good business person.
00:45:14
Speaker
yeah And so, yes, I completely recommend that students major in accounting. ah Awesome. And is there anything you need from the audience? um You know, again, do you need some expertise on something? Are you looking for a guest speaker on a certain topic for your students? Is there anything out there? We've got some CPAs out there who are listening. Anything that you'd ask of of the audience, CPAs there.
00:45:36
Speaker
I have a goal for this year. I know we're not very surprised to take the stage as ah as a professional speaker in 10 different states. Hmm.
00:45:47
Speaker
And so, so far I am booked in North Carolina and Oregon. One is a women's audience. One is a CPA audience. I do love to speak to those audiences. I love to talk to accountants. These are my people.
00:46:00
Speaker
ye And so if if anybody has the opportunity, needs a speaker, a facilitator, someone to talk about change, embracing change, understanding it's coming or goal setting, would absolutely love to hear from them.
00:46:13
Speaker
Awesome. And anything as a last question, anything else that you want to share advice, et cetera, with the audience or anything that you already shared that you think is so important, it's maybe worth just kind of re-highlighting, double clicking. Like I want to restate that one because I think it's that impactful. So anything else to share?
00:46:29
Speaker
I would say the last thing to share is truly the phrase a rising tide lifts all boats. I know that it's January. a lot of people on social media are posting how well they're doing with their resolutions or they just got a new job or promotions hit, or maybe they got a great year end bonus and they're not driving a shiny new vehicle.
00:46:50
Speaker
Take that as inspiration. don't take that as a way to view yourself negatively because a rising tide truly does lift all boats and and the higher we all the higher one of us goes the higher we all go together awesome thank you so much amy truly a meandering recovering accountant with a very cool career in accounting thanks for sitting down with today