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Star Wars Vs Beetlejuice | Which Rumored Title Will Win?
998 Plays1 day ago
Jack Danger takes a new position at Stern, Harry Potter talk, Is the next rumored games Star Wars from Stern and Beetlejuice from Spooky? Also we look at all the games that have released this year so far!
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Transcript
Introduction and Pinball Expo Announcement
00:00:07
Speaker
Thanks for tuning into loser kid pinball podcast. We are on episode one 73. I am your host Josh Roop with me, my co-captain Scott Larson and Scott. It's kind of been a slow news time. It seems like pinballs kind of slowed down. um and just we're kind of in that lull pattern, right? That holding pattern and what's coming up next.
00:00:26
Speaker
Okay. This happens every summer though. and It really does. People, people get outside. They want to enjoy the weather. They want to, they're taking family vacations. And so this has never been ah peak time of pinball news or production.
00:00:40
Speaker
So it doesn't surprise me at all. This is the doldrums right before we get into expo. Yeah. Which is true. And if you don't have it sit on your calendar yet, you should. It's ah October 15th through the 19th.
00:00:53
Speaker
ah This marks year 41. They've been doing it 41 years. Dang. And it's up there in and Chicago. You want to go get some Chicago deep dish and some Italian beef. Trust me.
00:01:04
Speaker
ah I'm surprised. Actually, i was surprised that I actually, we went to Malnati's and I like their thin crust better. but Really? Yeah, I did.
Culinary Nostalgia and Repairs
00:01:15
Speaker
It's funny because ah ah Travis Murie, friend of the show, it's on triple drain and all of his own shenanigans. He said like, he's not a fan of deep dish because it's like, it reminds him like casserole. I mean, I grew up, ah grew up in Utah. So like, that's all we ate were casseroles.
00:01:28
Speaker
I mean, we had hamburger casserole, which I found out later in life was just shepherd's pie. And then we had a pork chop casserole. We had a chicken casserole. We had a green bean casserole. Okay. The green bean casserole still rocks. um We, we had what we called shepherd's pie, which I didn't find out until much later was not shepherd's pie. It was just basically ground beef, cooked carrots and cooked potatoes sliced.
00:01:53
Speaker
It's funny how like some of these traditions happen, right? Well, but okay. This is also way before the internet. I mean, I grew i grew up, but i I was a, a kid kid in the seventies, but I mainly grew up in the eighties and it it's, it's, it's a totally different era. Actually, do you know what was really cool?
00:02:08
Speaker
My, my son and his friend were over today and his friend actually repairs game boys. Oh, cool. He'll buy Game Boys.
00:02:19
Speaker
And I was like, and so my son was asking, was how, like, hey, can we do this? I'm like, I have no experience in, that I know how to solder. I do know how to solder, but I have no experience in, in fixing Game Boys.
00:02:30
Speaker
But you know, his, his, his friend was over here. it was pretty cool. He was like, Hey, how about we, we buy these together. I teach you how to do it. And we split the profits 50, 50. I'm like, good, go ahead. and so i got And then they pulled out, but just, i want I want to finish up.
00:02:45
Speaker
yeah And then they talked to me into pulling out the old cathode ray tube TV and we brought it downstairs and we hooked up my classic Nintendo entertainment system and they were playing that all night.
00:02:58
Speaker
Nice. Nice. I want to bounce back to the casserole conversation okay really quickly. Okay. So I was watching a video and they were talking about the most iconic foods from each state. Sure. And for some odd reason, they picked funeral potatoes, funeral potatoes. Yeah. As Utah. Yeah. Which which is essentially just potato casserole. Well, ah well, yeah, but it's, it's like potatoes are rotten.
00:03:19
Speaker
So it's, you know, it's sliced, there's, there's cheese in it and there's, you know, like, you know, some sour cream and it's, it's delicious. If you eat it, you will be on my 800 pound life. If you eat it regularly, that's why.
00:03:33
Speaker
i got to ask, is there, there's gotta be a more iconic food to Utah than funeral potatoes.
Promotions, Discounts, and Nostalgia
00:03:39
Speaker
Kate, we used to be the jello state, but I haven't had jello in so long. um Yeah.
00:03:45
Speaker
It is kind of fun though, if you make the, like the layer jello, cause you my, my mom would make it with, it took forever. i don't understand how she would do this, but she would like put one layer on. It would be like, you know, a rainbow layer of different things.
00:03:57
Speaker
Yeah. And it was like, that would probably take her like 40, 40 minutes to an hour to make just the different layers. Cause you'd have to make it in free, uh, you know, refrigerate it and then do it. I like, wow, that's my, my mom was way more committed to cooking than I am.
00:04:12
Speaker
Well, I'm like, there's fry sauce, but that's just a sauce. That's not like really a food, right? It's pretty hard to eat hamburgers with ketchup and mustard anymore. Yeah. Once you've had fry sauce, it's dumped on top.
00:04:26
Speaker
So, you know, I got Funhouse in the house. I've been really enjoying it. but um Before we get into that, though, I want to give a shout out to Flippin' Out Pinball. Thank you, Zach and Nicole. Many, I decided to get this on a whim. They had it in stock.
00:04:39
Speaker
Like, sure, we'll ship it right out. I had it ah because of the holiday, the 4th of July holiday. didn't get till Monday, but still it was here within a week freaking fast. yeah And the cool part is too, we've worked out a deal that you can get $500 off. Doesn't matter if it's the Ellie or the classic edition. If you're here in America, flipping out pinball.com, you go in, you just add fun house to your cart.
00:05:03
Speaker
There's a promo code spot right below. You just type in loser kid and you get $500 off. And then if you're in Europe, you can get the same deal. Go to Pedretti's pinball site and type in, you know, ah you you add to cart, do the promo thing, loser kid, get you yourself 500 bucks off.
00:05:19
Speaker
And there's plenty of trade deals available as well. ah Zach is taking plenty of trades in right now. So if you're looking to move something that's been setting and just collecting dust in the collection, now's the time. So it's also, i i will say, if you don't follow his page, you should.
00:05:34
Speaker
Yes. Because he moves things quickly. He'll, he'll post them. And then if it's not moving, he's like, okay, let's, let's, let's chop a few hundred bucks off and let's get it done. So he's, they're moving so quick too. He said that they're doing an interested list because even on used games, because a game might come through and you want it.
00:05:51
Speaker
Yeah. yeah And the deals have been going, haveve been really good on these games too. So yeah. Insane. I don't know. I don't know how they're making money. You know Well, okay. They, they do. And and they're good. They're really good at customer service. So that's the best part about it.
00:06:04
Speaker
And man, I will say going through customer service, I bought a 3d printer for my son's birthday and I kind of destroyed a part when I was installing it, but it's like a, a connector part.
00:06:16
Speaker
And I've been trying to get through to China from, to send me a placement part for a month. Yeah. ah For a month. So if like, if you guys have any question about how good a company is, ask yourself on the customer service. If something is wrong, how quickly are they able to remedy the situation? I guarantee Zach and Nicole do it.
00:06:35
Speaker
Oh yeah. one hundred percent 100%. So, well, just like the gentleman that got his Harry Potter and he watched the FedEx guy drop it. I think his name is RJ. yeah and And this is his dream game. He just up like Dumbledore for one of the pinball events and they got,
00:06:52
Speaker
They're like, you know what? just ship it right back. They shipped out new CE to him, so he didn't have to go without. And Zach's dealing with all the headache on that. And don't envy him one bit. That's a $15,000 game that FedEx just dropped and was like...
00:07:06
Speaker
Yeah. ah Do you still want this? Oops are bad. No, but that's fantastic. Like that's amazing to flipping out and and the quality of their customer service. Yep. So a hundred percent agree.
00:07:17
Speaker
um But yeah, you want to talk fun house. It's been fantastic. I've really been enjoying it. I want your, because you don't have a nostalgic connection to this game. I do. I have a little bit. of You do. Okay. I, I, I don't have a nostalgic connection with actually really,
00:07:33
Speaker
you know, the only ones I have connection to are the ones that my friends, Gary's house. When I first got into pinball, cause he had like a tales of the Arabian nights. It was beautiful.
00:07:44
Speaker
Um, a theater magic, Adam's family, which I never really got the allure of it, but he had an Indiana Jones, a circus Voltaire. The, the question, the collection was premium. It's,
00:07:55
Speaker
he's kind of swapped it out a little bit and I kicked myself a little bit for not picking up some of those games, but it's okay. But fun house is definitely in that nineties wheelhouse. So take it away.
00:08:06
Speaker
So I do have a nostalgic connection to it. I've always really enjoyed it. It's one of the games that I first found when I got into pinball outside of, you know, medieval madness attack for Mars monster bash. Um, it's just, it's something unique.
00:08:19
Speaker
I think people will love it or they hate it. And it's for the fact there's a marionette head on there that talks at you and harasses you. And, I think if you're into kind of that creepy vibe a little bit, ah this game is pretty awesome.
00:08:30
Speaker
um I think it excelled over Red and Ted for a specific reason. It's because there's more of a ambiance to it, right? Like there's more of a, like you're in the fun house and you're taking off, you're taking off Rudy.
00:08:44
Speaker
And it was funny because we had, my friend had his, or sorry, not my friend. My son had his friend over and they were playing and they're like, what's slappy from goosebumps doing under there. I'm like, that's not slappy. That's Rudy.
00:08:56
Speaker
And it's funny. Cause like, where did this marionette head thing come from? Because like, it's gotta be around for a while now. Right. Because yeah, if goosebumps picked up on it, which was two years after fun house released, I don't know. It just, it's funny.
00:09:08
Speaker
Um, I had one switch go bad on it. Not bad per se. ah But I'm working through the warranty process on that. And it's it's almost like it's switch you wouldn't even notice.
00:09:19
Speaker
it's It's in between when you short plunge, there's a spot on the right side between the pop bumpers. Is it to activate the play field? No, it's just I think it's just one saying, hey, the ball went down this path.
00:09:33
Speaker
okay It doesn't really give you any points or anything like that. It's just... One of those ones that wants to know the ball is. Yeah. It wants to know where the ball is. And so it really doesn't affect the game at all. I'm not worried about it. Okay.
00:09:45
Speaker
But I put a ticket in because like, yeah, like it, it bugs me. It bugs and no one else. And no one in my family could even pick it up. They wanted to, I probably wouldn't even notice it. Yeah. You know, it's one of the Achilles heels to all nineties, Bally, William games.
00:09:59
Speaker
is there's one switch. There's one opto. There's one, whatever it is on every game that barely gets touched. And then the credit doc goes off because like on this one, and ten and yep. yeah Yeah. Yeah. Actually my wizard of Oz does the same thing.
00:10:12
Speaker
Yep. i Like you didn't see, you didn't hear me boot it up, but it's the same thing. It's like, by ba by but but yes so check the thing. I was like, no, I'm not going to get under there and check it. But yeah, like on Funhaus, the left plunger, the one that you shoot for, you never full plunge it.
00:10:27
Speaker
So there's ah there's a switch at the very top that if you full plunge, it just says, hey, the ball came up this way. I never full plunge. And so now I'm starting to get a credit card because that. And just funny. You should to full plunge once in a while.
00:10:38
Speaker
i I try to. Treat yourself. Yeah. Treat yourself. ah But anywayho yeah, so I'm really enjoying it. um it's It's been a great game. And I'd recommend, don't know,
00:10:50
Speaker
the The hard part is I do wish the updated code was a little different. I feel like Funhaus, I think all those 90 Williams games, Bally Williams games could use updated code um outside maybe a handful.
00:11:05
Speaker
But I think Funhaus is one of those ones that the layout, the gameplay stand like stands the test of time. If we could just kind of deepen that code a little bit. They could all benefit from an extra layer. Yeah. And we've talked about this many times that they were never designed to be in houses at this stage.
00:11:24
Speaker
Yeah. So they were all, this is, it's getting back to, I, I tell people all the time when they're like, Hey, Donkey Kong, I'd love to have a Donkey Kong in my house. I'm like, no, you won't. Cause you'll get it and you'll play it. And you've probably put a total of $5 worth of quarters in a Donkey Kong game in your life.
00:11:44
Speaker
And so if you've done that, then if you're at home, you can put $5 worth of credits in in a week. Yeah. And you're going to get tired of the monotony of most of these games. It's ah they are very superficial, which in some ways is kind of the charm.
00:12:02
Speaker
that you can speed run them, so to speak. Yeah. But ah adding like the extra layer, you know, this is like, you know, the Lyman code that's coming out, the Lyman and Josh Sharp code. And we, Josh has mentioned to us multiple times, he has multiple ideas for future code updates on different games. And if the opportunity presents itself, then he knows how to make them a modern rule set as opposed to a nineties rule set.
00:12:28
Speaker
No, I totally agree. I think it it would be interesting to see how a lot of these nineties games you could expound upon whatnot, but yeah. But with fun house, yeah, I get it. It's, it probably wasn't an A plus on the extra code, but if, if you want to try it out, it's certainly a fun way to try out a different version.
00:12:45
Speaker
The good news is the, the classic version is a great ah addition to a collection. And now you can, you can have the classic version and put it in your lineup. If that's what charges your batteries.
Stern Pinball Team Changes
00:12:58
Speaker
Definitely. Let's talk about the hot news that came out today. Everyone's kind of ah wondering what's going on. um Jack danger is now the head of the community.
00:13:10
Speaker
um And everyone's starting to ask questions of what is going on over at Stern. First Timmy left to go to CGC or play mechanics. Sure. um You know, it seemed like the X-Men team had kind of been disbanded.
00:13:23
Speaker
Yeah. it Yeah. That's always the fear, right? it's It's kind of like that with, there's been a few mix of the of two of the last three releases.
00:13:36
Speaker
There's been a big change. So with John Wick, you know Tim Sexton leaving and them basically getting a new team of coders on that game. that that's, ah that's going to be a Herculean lift just because you're picking up the vision of someone else. And you're trying to figure out how to streamline that.
00:13:57
Speaker
Sometimes it can work great. um Sometimes not so much. And so it puts John wick a little bit in limbo. X-Men is a little bit the same way. So you have Jack who that's his last game.
00:14:09
Speaker
There's latest game, excuse me. And it's ah it's been a hit or miss ah to be to be generous that some people, their their X-Men plays great and others just, it's really hard to dial it in. So that that is the that is the sink or swim on taking a a big risk on a play field layout that is so different than other ones is that you you run the risk that if it's not dialed in and bulletproofed,
00:14:41
Speaker
then it's going to be a challenging game. So you're running into that. You're also running into basically a reboot on the code. And in some ways i'm I'm glad that Stern doesn't just drop these games because that would be a really bad, that would be an ominous sign for future games because then you wonder, Hey, if I, if I'm buying a game, is this going to be supported?
00:15:06
Speaker
if If it's not rush was a rush was okay. It was an okay seller. It wasn't a big seller. They knew that they knew it was going to be a small, a smaller run, but you know, having Ray on the code and getting it really pushed up,
00:15:21
Speaker
made me say, Hey, I'm going to keep it. It's a, it's a niche game, but I like it. And so the people who buy the John wick, the John wick fans out there, the X-Men fans, they're at least confident that Stern is going to make an effort to continue on those games, but it does raise some eyebrows, right?
00:15:39
Speaker
Definitely. And I'm so dead flip or Jack danger had posted this on his dead flip page today, right? That he, He's the head of the community now. There was a little excerpt from Stern and whatnot talking about this.
00:15:52
Speaker
I want to give a shout out to Colin Alzheimer. He asked five great questions. i kind of want to go over these with you really yeah quick. ah ah So the first one, will all future dead flip content, comments, announcements, et cetera, be considered official Stern approved communications?
00:16:10
Speaker
He said that dead flip will continue to be independent. Stupid stuff said there is its own thing. Uh, con then asked, will you be running or commenting under Stern branded social media accounts as part of this role? Think more traditional community management retype responsibilities.
00:16:26
Speaker
He says, I'll be playing more of a role in official socials, but marketing has its own team. That's doing a great job. Three, is this an acknowledgement that full-time game the the game design was not aligning with your interests or Stern's needs?
00:16:41
Speaker
ah He put, I freaking love game design. More info on that soon. ah Four, should we expect to see you interacting more with existing pinball community platforms and groups as well as existing community media types?
00:16:53
Speaker
As a Stern representative, he put, absolutely. And five, right out of the gate, i or wait, sorry, five, what are some new incentives or initiatives that you're excited to bring to Stern in this role that you couldn't do in your previous role?
00:17:08
Speaker
ah Right out of the gate, I want feedback and open line of communication with the community. The rest will be keeping close to the best for now. So it's very interesting. We can kind of dissect this really quick. um ah it So it sounds like there's So Stern still has its own marketing team. And we know like Zach Sharp's over the top of that.
00:17:26
Speaker
yeah And he's got people underneath him that help with that. And they're doing a great job as well. um so So obviously, Jack Danger's not taking over any marketing roles on these games.
00:17:38
Speaker
But it sounds like he's specifically going to be interacting with the community and maybe helping with maybe the community's image of Stern, which I feel like the community overall has a ah good...
00:17:50
Speaker
good image is turned and maybe I could be wrong. I know there's, there's always every manufacturer has its like trip wire, right? Like there's something that happens. It's, it's not necessarily the the manufacturer's fault. It's just something unforeseen happens and they gotta, they gotta deal with it, right?
00:18:10
Speaker
You gotta put on the fire or whatever it is. So I feel like Jack's going to be interacting more on a community based level. At least that's what it sounds here, right? Like, yeah, um I guess the big question. almost sounds like an bat and like ah a pinball ambassador, if you can use that role. Okay. Maybe he's like a stern ambassador where his his job, see from what I'm reading this, it seems like his job is to um engage with the community.
00:18:38
Speaker
create a positive environment for, for pinball and stern, and it allows him to run parallel lines with dead flip and stern. Um, now here's the, which by the way, plays into Jack strengths.
00:18:55
Speaker
So in some ways you can look at this and say, well, why is this happening? And one thing you can at least agree on is that Jack is exceptional at engaging with people and getting you know interest in the community, right?
00:19:11
Speaker
He's always been the guy that you want to go to a pinball barcade with and hang out with. Definitely. and And so that is a ah huge plus. The elephant in the room is...
00:19:23
Speaker
is this Is this restructuring? Is this a positive and a negative for, you know, in his eyes or in the community's eyes? And in some ways, i i could argue that it can't help but sting a little bit because the, I would say the the top of of pinball, at least being being in the, in the industry would be designing your own machines.
00:19:55
Speaker
Yeah. It sounds like he's taking a little break from that according to him, but you know, he's like, I still want to be involved in the future, but it seems like that's going to be on a pause. I, am I reading that the way you're reading that?
00:20:11
Speaker
I think so. Um, well, and you know, I, I think back to an interview that Joel Engelberth had done with Keith Elwin, a year or so ago. And you know, it was funny because Joel had asked like, what is the hardest part about making a game?
00:20:27
Speaker
And, and Keith has said, its it's not actually designing the game. It's managing all the cogs and and stuff, right? Like you and I've been to Stern. We did the media day where they went in and it's, we went over every line item of what they do in 18 months from start to finish. Right.
00:20:46
Speaker
And the person's designing the game, quote unquote, designing the game is over all those line items, making sure it's not just a designing ah ah play field, right? It's interacting with the licensor. It's making sure the arts matching up with the design.
00:21:00
Speaker
It's making sure that software is coming in and doing their job, right? and but You're a project manager. Yes. And that's really, as a playfield designer, you are that, but you are also the general who is leading the entire development team in making sure that all your milestones are met.
00:21:21
Speaker
Yep. and And that's the thing, too, is Jack... I felt like Jack did great. Obviously, I own Foo Fighters Pro since it released. I just barely got rid of it for King Kong Pro. um I felt like X-Men was a really cool design. ah I had... The things I didn't like was just a personal thing. It wasn't anything to say... It wasn't to say that the game was terrible, right? Like, it's just... For me, that's not what I like to play in a game.
00:21:45
Speaker
But overall, it shot really well. I think if you can... guide the code a little better than where it was. i think it stands as a really cool, unique game that Stern's never done before. Right.
00:21:56
Speaker
So like if you're doing really well, like even we can agree, like the JP home edition was a really cool design. Yeah. I actually, I played it on Saturday. ah My, my friend Dan has one. So I, I was at his house and I just went and played it for a while because I think it's a pretty cool design.
00:22:14
Speaker
I, we, we, i we bought a rental down in St. George and we're going to be renting that out. And I, have considered getting something like a home edition to put in there. Yeah. Or or another, just because I think it's a fun, straightforward game, which is huge.
00:22:30
Speaker
It's easier to understand. So I think he did a great job on that. Yes, I totally agree. So my, I guess my, my point is, is we know that Jack can design a game and he's obviously, I just wonder if maybe the managing a team,
00:22:45
Speaker
didn't set well. It may not have played to his strengths, right? Because we yeah talked about this, utilizing utilizing your strengths. Jack's strengths are engaging with people.
00:22:56
Speaker
And I'm not saying this is the same thing as coaching like a a ah little league baseball team, but like, I mean, it's kind of like the same concept of like, you're over a team, you have parents that are putting their input and stuff like that, right?
00:23:09
Speaker
So it's just one of those things that like, if you can't handle little league baseball, like this is like pressure cooker times a thousand, right? Well, okay. You could also point out that where does Jack thrive? Jack thrives in the spotlight.
00:23:26
Speaker
Yeah. Being a project manager, it's not in many ways, it's not a glamorous job. The job is to hunt down and make sure. your team is is it reaching their marks.
00:23:40
Speaker
And that that may or may not. I have not made a machine with Stern. I've never been back there. I don't know how all that stuff works. i Just knowing Jack, i I see that he thrives a lot better at the engagement part.
00:23:57
Speaker
And it's it could just be that they look at his skill set and say, we're under utilizing him here when he's really good at it. And there are other people who can do this other stuff.
00:24:09
Speaker
So in many ways, you could look at it as a, you know, as a shift, but in some ways you can also look at it from Stern's point of view and saying, why are we letting, you know, the most engaging guy on our staff, why are we letting him hide behind a development wall when we could be using him for other things?
00:24:30
Speaker
I agree. it's going be interesting see how this plays out over the next couple months. We certainly wish him, we wish him and Stern ah like all the best. i mean and The more we can get engagement out in pinball and in the community, the better. And again, utilizing the strength, lead with your best foot.
00:24:48
Speaker
Yep. I totally agree. um So since we're on the subject of Stern, and we've heard, we've heard rumors flying around.
Star Wars Pinball Speculations
00:24:56
Speaker
Let's talk about what we, what we know as this, where the fire is. Speculate, right?
00:25:03
Speaker
Yeah. So from our understanding is the next rumor title is star Wars. Uh, we don't know exactly if that's specifically empire strikes back.
00:25:14
Speaker
If that's more of the skeleton is four through six again. oh But who knows? Which I would point out, they've done that before. If you if you take Data at East into account and stuff like that.
00:25:27
Speaker
So I don't think it's uncommon for it to happen. Weirdly enough, I think there's more less licensing restrictions with the ah four through six. yeah So it kind of makes sense to go that route too.
00:25:39
Speaker
Um, perhaps it's the most, it's almost a most marketable yeah of the star Wars profit, uh, properties. It's the one that still connects with people even on a casual level.
00:25:52
Speaker
Yeah. Yep. I think it's the best representation of star Wars too. it It is absolutely the center cut of the watermelon, like all neat, no seeds. Right. yeahp Exactly. So that that's, uh, you know, even with the cheesy acting, cause I, like I can look at star Wars from adult perspective now and just say, Ooh, some of that acting is pretty rough, but it's still connects with the, you know my, my four through nine year old self, which is when star Wars came out. Um,
00:26:25
Speaker
it certainly is the most marketable license that has ever been done in pinball. Yeah. And I would even argue ah above Harry Potter just because of the longevity, j just because, just because the longevity and that should be the title of that Harry Potter versus star Wars. Well, okay. But, like but legitimately the people who are, I, the the people who are in my age group, I'm 50 years old.
00:26:51
Speaker
And the people who are in my age group, I don't know of anybody who's fanatical about Harry Potter in my age group. that True. I think there's that that's a younger age group. And that could be something that really grows because that is certainly a fresher, newer license. And it's a more complete license when you look at the all the stuff they did for for books one through seven, right?
00:27:16
Speaker
But ah when you're looking at the buying demographic of people buying pinball machines, Star Wars still edges just a little bit higher. and And I think it's just because of the, you know, it came out 20 years earlier.
00:27:32
Speaker
Yeah. I'm not saying anything about the quality of the license of Harry Potter because obviously it connects with people. But if I'm going to throw my hat in which one would ultimately connect with a broader audience, I'd say it's Star Wars.
00:27:46
Speaker
And i I agree, and I i kind of disagree. like but that Take the contrary. Tell me why. i wrong it I think you're wrong in the fact, like look at how well Harry Potter has been selling this last two months.
00:27:58
Speaker
It is like unmatched by anything else since Godzilla. it's just It's doing super well, and and I guess that doesn't have to necessarily talk to the license of licensed Harry Potter versus Star Wars, but it is impressive to see I mean, Eric Meneary did a great job on the layout and I just, I don't know. It's, I think Harry Potter, I was not expecting it to do this well.
00:28:25
Speaker
Like it is doing amazingly well. Um, I agree with you though. It's almost two different types. It's two different demographics, right? Yeah. It's, yeah it's kind like which band is better, you know, like, uh, Fleetwood Mac rumors, which sold like 50 million albums. Right.
00:28:44
Speaker
Yeah. Versus like, don't know, name it, you know Pearl jam 10. And they're both great albums. They both sold a ton, but they're kind of two different, different demographics.
00:28:56
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Well, you could even argue, you know, Motley Crue versus Lincoln park. I mean, that's a 20 year difference or 15 year difference. Yeah. Yeah. so So what, what's what, um, Harry Potter, if you go based off the books, that was the early nineties, but the movies were at mid nineties, late nineties.
00:29:15
Speaker
It's probably 20 year difference between the first star Wars and the first Harry Potter. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Star Wars was like 77. The first one came out. So it's a similar thing. it's ah It's good. So don't know. I think it's so so getting back to the Stern thing, we are going to circle back on Harry Potter a little bit later.
00:29:37
Speaker
But getting back to the Stern thing, it would be smart for them to redo the Star Wars version. because so I'm going to make the case for redoing star Wars. I'm going to have you do the contrary. Okay.
00:29:49
Speaker
Okay. The case for redoing the star Wars. Um, it was, it felt a little bit cheap. The Steve Ritchie one, the whole tie fighter on a spring.
00:30:02
Speaker
It, it felt like it wasn't as, um, as packed as a game that you would expect from star Wars. Now, uh, Apparently our, so my speculation was always that the license took away from the bill of material, but we did confirm that that is not the case.
00:30:22
Speaker
Yeah. Like that comes from a separate budget item. So I'm not sure why star Wars, the Steve Ritchie star Wars felt under like underpopulated versus different games of the era.
00:30:38
Speaker
But, you know, it's I so I would say having a different version of it, the plunge was kind of a nightmare to where if yeah the first time you get up to a game and you're going to plunge and it's going house ball.
00:30:50
Speaker
it It is such a challenging start. Also, man, the TIE fighter shot, or sorry, the, the death star shot should have been bigger moment.
00:31:01
Speaker
It really should have. And the, the cool, like hyperloop was really cool, but it was also not very easy to get to. And you know you have to get back to what are the big things. you know When you get into Lord of the Rings, your hope you want the dude or the lady who's playing the game, you want them to fight the Balrog at least once.
00:31:25
Speaker
yeah And if you if you're playing Medieval Madness, you want them to destroy the castle once. If you're playing ah Metallica, you want Sparky to get lit up once. Because people are going to start coming back because that's an awesome moment.
00:31:38
Speaker
it felt like the Star Wars moments didn't happen when they should have. So if you're going to pick one to revamp, renew, and then re-release so you can sell a ton of them because the Star Wars license still is a king maker, then it makes sense to say, let's do ah better version of it.
00:32:04
Speaker
Now, i'm goingnna I'm going to throw it to you and I want you to tell me why I'm wrong. Tell you why you're wrong. ah i I think it should be revamped. I think that Star Wars came out a while ago. And so it's obviously a moneymaker. Yeah.
00:32:20
Speaker
I mean, it's the license is one of the top licenses that pinball has gotten a hold of. Okay. Do you think that they should have considered like, okay, we know that Lucas is trying to push or at least Disney, right?
00:32:35
Speaker
They're trying to push episode seven through nine. They're trying to push the newer, and you go to Star Wars land or whatever it's called, Galaxy's Edge, and they're pushing the new order. They're not pushing the Empire, right?
00:32:51
Speaker
And you go there, it's the new stuff. You're you're doing the the smugglers run. You're doing the Rise of the Resistance. This is all their new version of episode. you know it's this It's the seven through nine.
00:33:02
Speaker
you know Other things that they could be doing. They could be doing Ahsoka, which was okay. i didn't I couldn't get into it as much as I wanted to. um Rogue One slash Andor was great.
00:33:16
Speaker
And it it is a departure because it's not a lightsaber heavy fight. But that could be something that it's critically, it's been well received.
00:33:27
Speaker
They could consider like that could be a MacGuffin to say, Hey, we're doing a episode four through six, and then come out and say, surprise, it was and or all along. I wouldn't be surprised by that.
00:33:41
Speaker
um I still feel that the original star Wars still moves more dollars than one of those specialty ah Disney the plus shows though.
00:33:54
Speaker
I agree. Well, really it comes down to like, everyone has some kind of connection to four through six, right? Like I just, But I don't think everyone has a connection to skeleton crew or and or stays up on that stuff.
00:34:08
Speaker
If you go up to someone on the street and you say, who's Luke Skywalker? They know. You go up to them and say, who's Cassian Andor? And they're like, who? ah and and Unless you're a big Star Wars fan, you're probably not going to know who Cassian Andor is.
00:34:21
Speaker
Well, and maybe I shouldn't bring this up, but a part of me in the back of my brain wonders, too, if it's to also keep royalties in-house where Steve Ritchie no longer works there. I don't know exactly how the contracts work out. Yeah, I have no idea. I assume the project manager, the game designer, does get a kickback, and that team gets a kickback for making that game, right? Sure.
00:34:48
Speaker
And, and there's, it's probably contracted out to like, you have to meet a certain requirements and yada, yada. Why not? Why not keep those royalties in house? So the rumor is, is John Borg is designing this.
00:34:58
Speaker
Yeah. I, I guess I'll push back though, is that if you have a game that's still selling a ton of units, you don't care who designed it. And true they still sold Elvira for years after Dennis Nordman, like did his first run at it. And then Stern,
00:35:16
Speaker
fixed it up and then kept selling it. Right. Yeah. So I, I think that the, the sales on star Wars had dropped off to a point that they said, this version of the star Wars license has run its course.
00:35:31
Speaker
Yeah. So we need to do a different version if we're going to keep this going. Yeah. Okay. and so that brings me, well the the next thing is, this is great though. I'm going to, I'm going to tell you exactly what I did because we're talking a little bit about a recap for the year and ah the AI wizards out there, they tell us that there is some speculation and some confirmation of a remastered version of Lord of the Rings coming in 2025.
00:36:04
Speaker
you believe that? Nah. Yeah. there's too much There's too much fire on The Walking Dead, which is interesting too, because that's another Borg, right? Right. i I just... Could you imagine... Okay, so timeline. right why Timeline-wise...
00:36:21
Speaker
So if it is Borg and it is Star Wars, we see that in August slash September. Yeah. That's always been the timeframe. Yep. And then right now the reasss re remastered would be the week of Expo. came out right. Yeah. Metallica came out right at Expo. Yeah. Yes.
00:36:37
Speaker
And so my thought process. I feel so bad for X-Men, by the way, because as soon as Metallica came out, like the X-Men buzz just dropped off a cliff. 100%. one hundred percent it was it so it's it's hard to compete. and Metallica is one of the best games of all time. And with Raymond taking the Lyman code, even to a new level, I know that's sacrilegious, but he did. Yeah. And it's, ah it was so great. So are we going to see the same thing with walking dead, but now Borg is going to be betting against himself.
00:37:12
Speaker
don't know if it's better. i mean, star Wars and walking dead are entirely too different. Yeah. yeah Not genres, but like, Bases of buyers, right? Yeah. Buyers fan bases that, okay. Dude, you walking, you can see Borg. When you went to King Kong media day, do you even see Borg? Was he like locked away? Was he out smoking like um chain smoking cigarettes? he just I, I did see Borg.
00:37:35
Speaker
I, and I talked to him very briefly, but he was very busy. And so i that just, and that tells you, and John's a pro he's been, the running ninety s he's been the nineties. He's been running that forever. And, and even like, what is it? George or Gary said that, that John is a guy who could, who could design a game from the, from the bolts up yeah and make it from the bolts up.
00:38:03
Speaker
So yeah, I don't know, man, I just super busy. I think regardless of what it is, I think Borg's been, been doing double duty. Yeah. i Just. Okay. But that shows his ability to manage two separate lines.
00:38:15
Speaker
If the rumors are true and he's doing a re a re a resurrected ah walking dead, let's call the resurrected edition.
Industry Speculations and New Releases
00:38:25
Speaker
um And then also doing a star Wars thing on top that,
00:38:29
Speaker
That's crazy. That's crazy sauce. Yeah. No, I totally agree. It's nuts. But if anyone can do it, really, he could. Yeah. So we kind of talked about it here a little bit ago. We talked about Harry Potter. We talked about the code.
00:38:43
Speaker
um Let's do a quick update. um so So you and I have not played Harry Potter yet. We have. And and you know what? Okay. So Eric reached out. So we're friends with Eric. And by the way, I'm going to say Eric is one of the chillest guys out there.
00:39:00
Speaker
Because he he came and asked us, he's like, well, have you guys played it yet? And we said, well, we we haven't. But, you know. and I was like, we could have at a media day. Wink, wink. Right. Okay.
00:39:13
Speaker
and And I will say, i don't I don't want to get too far like behind their marketing strategy. ah Correct. or Because I will say that they're there certainly were plans at some point to possibly include us to come out and see.
00:39:29
Speaker
yes And it just didn't seem to match up with everything they were trying to accomplish. um I'm hoping that something like that is able to materialize it in the future, just because Avatar, it going and playing Avatar was a big deal.
00:39:45
Speaker
because it did give me a but baseline to play the game and to say, actually, this is a really good product. I, and I, I still stand by that. It's avatar is a yeah it's a cool game fun product. It is an immersive Jersey Jack nails the immersive, the immersion, right?
00:40:03
Speaker
yeah They totally do. And so I can't wait to play a Harry Potter, but his point was that, Hey, the code. And he's like, you guys have Godzilla over your shoulder. You and I both have god God's Godzilla just over our, our shoulder.
00:40:19
Speaker
And he's like, that's a pretty complex rule set too. And so just, you know, to be fair, there are lots of layers in Godzilla. And, and so that that was something that he did point out. He's like, there is a superficial level of like, okay, get through this.
00:40:37
Speaker
And then there's a deeper level of like, okay, now if you want to be the the completionist in the game, here's the intermediate level that you you can get to. And then there's the deep level of like, here's all the minutiae you can get to.
00:40:50
Speaker
Well, and honestly, like we've we've been talking about this for a little bit now too. And I've i've watched gameplay footage really interesting when you, when you break down the Harry Potter code, it's actually pretty straightforward.
00:41:01
Speaker
It's start a movie, start a multiball, use that to complete the movie. Cause you want to get those points from the movie. And then when you do your final exam or whatever it is to go into ah our multiball, our multiball play rewards you for how well you played the movie. Right.
00:41:18
Speaker
And it's kind of rinse and repeat. You've got six movies. And so honestly, the code, the code is very, upfront for those, ah like, let's, let's be honest. Harry Potter is a great thing to bring new people into the hobby. Sure. I think it's wonderful that JJP did it.
00:41:33
Speaker
And to do a code like that, i my, my complaint was, and like I said, from the beginning of the dawn of Jersey Jack pinball, I just feel like there's too much going on with the screen.
00:41:44
Speaker
And I don't feel like the information of what I'm supposed to be doing is presented to you It could, I actually thought Avatar was pretty good. um So I, I'm waiting to see how the, how the integration, I, Avatar was great because you saw how many errors you had. Yeah, true. And and how many different things. So they were able to streamline that.
00:42:05
Speaker
And so until I get the chance to see Harry Potter in the, in the flesh and play it, then I, I'll give you a better idea of like, okay, they'll, they give me information I want and they don't overwhelm me with information.
00:42:18
Speaker
Yeah. and And that's the thing too. We definitely need to play it. And so, um and it could be an entirely different story. What's I guess my hands on it. It just, like I said, it's it's just one of those things that I feel like it's not just a Harry Potter problem. sure And I, and to to Eric's credit and to those, I really do think that they approach this game from a perspective of what can we do not only for the beginner to feel like they're accomplishing and enjoying this game, but but also the the expert can enjoy this game.
00:42:48
Speaker
And everyone I've talked to that has this game, doesn't matter if they're beginner or expert, everyone's leaving loving the shoote the shots of this game. It feels very rewarding. um I've heard people say this is probably the best game JJP game so far.
00:43:04
Speaker
It's the best package, right? um And Eric just, he he did an amazing job with the layout. So I just wanted to just to say that. And I think I've got it on my, ah well, I'm going to Expo here in October. I better see you guys there. um But I just, that might be the soonest I get to play it because There may be a couple coming to Utah, but I don't know.
00:43:25
Speaker
Right. it's not we're not We're not a saturated market. Utah is a little bit different. like For the most part, unless Josh and I are buying games ourselves, then it's it's less likely we get an early view. Now, my friend is getting one, so I'll let you know. If i get to play a CE, and he's getting a CE,
00:43:44
Speaker
So I'll let you know if I get the opportunity and I'll, I'll just Jersey Jersey Jack, just hit me up. You can send me a Harry Potter. We'll just borrow it for a while. And I will say um the one thing that again, to Eric's credit, we said we weren't trying to be malicious. We were just,
00:44:01
Speaker
kind of pointing out what, so I hope you didn't feel like we were, we were bagging on you. And he said, you know what, that I think the best policy in life is to assume best of intentions.
00:44:11
Speaker
And I was like, actually, that's a pretty cool thing because we're so reactionary in so many things in life and especially online that I, I, it was super refreshing for him to say, Hey, I'm just checking out on something and I'm i'm pointing a few things out.
00:44:26
Speaker
And I, yeah I didn't feel like you were being mean, but I just want to give the ah the contrarian view. It was like, I, I, he gave it, I gave a pretty big, pretty big preamble of like, yeah, you know, if we were sitting, we'd be having a beer stuff like that. Sure. Yeah. No, no, I love Eric, man. Eric's one of the coolest guys in pinball for a man that has accomplished so much. Yeah. And let's, let's be honest. He has driven him and his team at Jersey Jack. I shouldn't say just Eric, right? Like we've, we've already discussed this, this episode that like it is a team effort, right?
00:44:56
Speaker
But Eric, what you're doing at Jersey Jack has pushed pinball forward in a positive way. Well, he's also managing his machine and also all of the lines on some level. So he's, he's, he's a little bit of wearing two hats.
00:45:14
Speaker
Yeah. You know, where wearing your Colonel and a general hat at the same time. Yep. Definitely. You know, so this last week, uh, interest lists are popping up again. so you remember, uh,
00:45:25
Speaker
When Harry Potter was announced by Jack back in March. Yeah, we should do that. and There was like a website saying Harry Potter pinball.com and all the stuff and all these other. So, so spooky is now pushing interested lists in their next game. Yeah.
00:45:42
Speaker
But they haven't said what it is. And I think what is. But if say it three times, he appears. Yeah. So this is what I'm hearing. Like it's that whole, like where there's smoke, there's fire. Right. yeah Yeah. And I've been hearing this for a bit now.
00:45:55
Speaker
This is all rumored. We're not saying this is what the game is, but if you want to get on the list, you know, hit up Zach and Nicole over at flipping out and they'll get you on it. Beetlejuice, like you said, it's at three times.
00:46:06
Speaker
What do you think of Beetlejuice? It's not a theme that I have much of a connection with. Um, it it, it is, it's, it's a little bit like the Edward Scissorhands or something that maybe Peewee's big adventure or something that has a really passionate following, but I'm hoping that they can, they can convert that to a big seller.
00:46:29
Speaker
Now they did just release the sequel. And so if you're going to strike, then, you know, go ahead and do it. Uh, it's certainly in their brand. It's, it's brand honest for spooky to do it.
00:46:43
Speaker
yeah Because it is definitely in that that spooky Halloween vibe thing. i I agree. It probably will be a pretty big seller for their expectations. It's certainly bigger than Walking Dead, right? or Sorry, not Walking Dead, ah evil death like Evil Dead. is like Do you think Evil Dead has more like cultural awareness then ah than Beetlejuice? Because I don't.
00:47:11
Speaker
yeah It's hard. I grew up in the punk rock scene and evil dead is very predominant in the punk rock scene. Okay. But evil dead is also not a very family friendly option.
00:47:22
Speaker
Very true. Okay. So in history has shown that if you have an R rated movie, you actually are going to make less than a PG or PG 13 movie. Yeah.
00:47:33
Speaker
yeah Just because you're cutting off ah a segment of the population there are that doesn't want, you know, the extreme, the eitherther either extreme violence or extreme, you know, language or sex or whatever.
00:47:49
Speaker
So I guarantee more people have seen Beetlejuice than Evil Dead. um Yeah, oh, definitely. It'll definitely sell. Well, Frenchy can make it look really good by the way.
00:48:00
Speaker
Like we know that he's a big fan, right? Well, he released. So, okay. So Frenchy, when he used to work for Stern, So here's the thing when they're pitching an idea to a licensor, they'll get the artist to do a mock-up of what the translate will look like. Cause that it doesn't take visual.
00:48:16
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. I better not say it doesn't take a long time. I don't know exactly how long it takes, okay but it's going to take less time investment to get an art to, to get an art poster presentation than it is to do a populated play field.
00:48:31
Speaker
And Frenchy had put out like he did like Superman 78 and He had done wonder woman and Beelgeuse was always the one that people saw and really wanted. Yeah. Yeah. And I, I think, I think there was a big enough fan base. I think Tim Burton,
00:48:47
Speaker
has Ari his own fan base right and people have proved they'll spend money on it that I think Beetlejuice is a brilliant idea ah especially if you're keeping around that 750 to a thousand of these being made so so that's why the number is very important in this in this realm that you can sell that of Beetlejuice and Evil Dead even if so if you say Evil Dead is less of a seller than Beetlejuice Evil dead sold out within three months, right? Like I think the last ones got gobbled up at Texas pinball festival, if I remember correctly.
00:49:21
Speaker
So, but it was also a great game. I, so, so don't like it didn't, it didn't have the Halloween effect. Halloween sold out instantaneously based on an art package.
00:49:35
Speaker
And then the play didn't really match up to the same high quality that the art package did. Right. Right. And, Evil dad was one of the situations where the play actually did match the art package and it was a great marriage.
00:49:51
Speaker
Yeah. So I just, I think that Beetlejuice is an amazing theme for spooky. I think, I think the concepts for this could be amazing. It's funny because I didn't really believe in Beetlejuice till I want to say it was a pinball show with Dennis and Zach Manny and Zach just started going off about everything you could do with this. Oh yeah.
00:50:12
Speaker
And I was like, I want this now. Like I want Beetlejuice after all this insanity. He's like just everything you could do with it. Right. And just like, Oh, like even the tying in the theme and everything. I would do Beetlejuice over Munsters.
00:50:25
Speaker
Yeah. Not, not monsters. Sorry. Not monsters. ah Goonies. What I was thinking. I would do Beetlejuice over Goonies. Let's do it. Let's do rumor versus rumor. Okay. And I, I think I know what you're going to say here, but okay Borgs star Wars. Okay.
00:50:40
Speaker
Versus spookies, Beetlejuice. Which one would you, which would you prefer in your basement? I, I, I, I have to go with star Wars just because it is like that is an anchor point in my childhood.
00:50:54
Speaker
And i I was on the limited edition list. And when I saw the limited an edition, was kind of disappointed just because it was it felt like there was something missing from it. So I'm i'm hoping that Borg is able to give a better cut at the ah you know yeah cut at the play field and see if we can get something that is is more fun. Metallica is one of the best games of all time.
00:51:21
Speaker
And if he can do something like that for star Wars, then, you know, Borg is a little hit or miss for me though. Like some of his, some of his designs really connect and some of them I struggle a little bit. um I love rush, but it's not a Metallica.
00:51:40
Speaker
It's not. um And I know there are people who are like super rush fans. And it's just, it it doesn't connect on the same level as Metallica does for me, even though the music probably connects on a different level.
00:51:52
Speaker
So I, I'm more optimistic for, um, for Star Wars than I would be for Beetlejuice, but just because I don't have a huge connection with Beetlejuice. See, and I grew up on Beetlejuice and that was one of like, that was just a show where I enjoyed.
00:52:08
Speaker
I grew up on star Wars as well. So I feel like I have just as a much connection to both. Um, it's hard because it's like, you're solely based off a theme at this point. Who would your wife like?
00:52:20
Speaker
Oh, easy. She do Beetlejuice over star Wars any day. Well, that I had to put two seconds of thought to that one. So, okay. But, but that is something that is something, especially when we know the majority of buyers are middle-aged dudes, right?
00:52:35
Speaker
Yeah. So if you get a, something that connects with, uh, with, with your wife, unless you're Joel and then you should buy it.
00:52:46
Speaker
Right. Talk about she, they got Dune and that's all she plays now. She wanted Dune. And so he bought her X-Men, uh, but know, because they have Dune from flipping out. I know, know, know. And he got a great deal on X-Men, but it's like,
00:53:01
Speaker
Dude, bro, like if your wife says, i want this game, you need to get that game. here's the thing. I can see the pros and cons. I feel the same way with you about Borg. I love there's certain Borg designs I love and there's some that are just, they don't hit that spot with me. Right.
00:53:15
Speaker
And then I look at spooky games and evil dead is just so good. There is stuff in evil dead that I'm not a fan of, but you know what? They're taking risks and they're trying stuff that's unique to them. And they can do that with a, with a small theme.
00:53:27
Speaker
Yeah. I'm sorry. With a small run, you can do that. Yeah. And so I think, I really think it would be Beetlejuice before Star Wars in my basement. Okay.
00:53:38
Speaker
All right. That's solely off a theme, not looking at the games. Okay. um But I could be swayed one way or the other. I really could. Okay. So, yeah.
00:53:50
Speaker
It's going to be interesting. I wonder how many people are going to now hit up Flippin' Out and be like, all right, I want on Beetlejuice. Get me on your list. So sorry, I'm getting distracted. My, my wife's flossing over there, like doing the, the dance. And so she's not picking out her teeth. Cause you guys, no, no, she's not picking out her teeth. No, we, we had burgers for the night, but yeah, she's nice.
00:54:13
Speaker
Oh my goodness. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's time to go to bed when your wife is flossing in front of you. Yes, exactly. Okay. Well, honestly, that's all we had on our notes for the night. Okay. So, so let's do a quick recap. We have, we have probably about six minutes.
00:54:28
Speaker
Let's do it. Let's look at the year in review and see which games have done like over your expectations, under your but or met your expectations, and who do you think is the is the obvious winner for the first six months.
00:54:49
Speaker
And go chrono. Let's go chronological. So the first one would let's say evil dead, because even though it was announced in December, they didn't officially start the run no january until January. Yeah. I think this is the best spooky game outside of, um, TNA, TNA.
00:55:03
Speaker
I think TNA, uh, but here's the thing though. TNA is, is great for its own reasons, right? Like this is probably the best. I don't know, man. This, this one's up there. yeah Um,
00:55:15
Speaker
then we had Dungeons and Dragons, not even a couple weeks later. um It's a fun game. i I was not looking forward to Dungeons and Dragons when it released because I was just like, it didn't hit that nostalgic button for me. And it's just something that I guess, i don't know.
00:55:30
Speaker
um But yeah, I was pleasantly surprised playing it. What about you? I guess both Evil Dead and with... Okay, we'll start with Evil Dead. Evil Dead exceeded my expectations.
00:55:41
Speaker
Okay. I will also point out that it is a game that I will... I have young kids. There's no chance it will be in my basement. yeah And now she's moonwalking.
00:55:52
Speaker
Gosh. ah Yeah. It's, it's just that the theme is a little too, too rough for, you know, a 10, 12 and 14 year old kid family, but they nailed it and they definitely exceeded my expectations, but not every game needs to be a baby game. Right.
00:56:09
Speaker
yeah Like you don't have to, as this is what, when people talk about like which movies and I know that people will counter with me. It's like, Oh, You want every movie to be a PG. I'm like, no, i I'm literally just looking at finances.
00:56:23
Speaker
ah Which games or which ah movies have the greatest chance of selling the most. And you don't have to have all that. That's why they have like the indie film festivals or Or the Oscars, which is masquerading as an indie film festival. You know, just things like that. Because you still want to be able to have but different different things for different audiences. And Spooky, again, nails the horror audience.
00:56:49
Speaker
Like, no one does it better than them. um I would say Dungeons & Dragons... exceeded my expectations, but but because it was a stern, it nailed exactly what I expected from stern.
00:57:05
Speaker
Yeah. I know that sounds kind of weird. But they're playing around with a little bit of the the experience, the level up system. They started that with a little bit of Venom where, okay, you can kind of save progress and you can level up and you can do stuff like that.
00:57:23
Speaker
But it is definitely has definitely up that board game, the MMORPG, the online video game feel, which it's not really my style.
00:57:37
Speaker
So it's, I think it's a great game. If I got a great deal on it, I'd probably consider it in my lineup, but just because the theme's okay it for me and the game is, is, is, is good, but it doesn't knock one of these other ones out of my lineup.
00:57:53
Speaker
Yeah. Well, and here's the thing too. And my son and I were playing Dungeons and Dragons locally. Well, up there in Salt Lake. Sure. And he said something to me and now I can't unsee it. And I don't know if I should say it on the podcast, but ah people had and the turtle or the snail.
00:58:09
Speaker
Why does the dragon look like a snail? Yeah. kate However, it's still a cool effect. It is still a cool effect. Like having the dragon, like fire the balls at you so fast. Yeah.
00:58:19
Speaker
It is a cool multi-ball.
Portal and Dune Pinball Reviews
00:58:22
Speaker
It really the whole head poking out of a cave. Yeah. Just kind of wish there were some like wings flapping or something, but yeah. Is there a mod for that? Is there a full body mod for the dragon? Cause I think maybe. Yeah.
00:58:31
Speaker
no All right. Let's move on to the next one. Portal for multimorphic. Yeah. ah Did this meet expectations, exceed expectations? yeah Exceeded. And because the the limiting factor that we've always talked about P3 games is that the shots are have heavily ah focused on the back third.
00:58:54
Speaker
Yeah. Right. So this broke that back third ceiling by extending it down. ah This also, if you're going to do portal, having P3 do it is the perfect venue to for.
00:59:09
Speaker
venue to do it for Yep. Because having the screen there is going to definitely help with the environment and in portal, it's a video game. So having an environmental feel is going to be huge.
00:59:21
Speaker
Yep. For me, it definitely exceeded expectations, which actually was kind of high for portal. It's a game that is very much a touchstone in my life. It's one of those games that, I just I love portal is right up my alley of what I like to play when it comes to a video game.
00:59:37
Speaker
So for them to make this um just oh I was expecting a lot and I felt like they met like the theme integration to this game is insane.
00:59:51
Speaker
Sure. um I can't wait for them to start producing these off the line. Sure. um They're prepping right now. I know that they showed in March yeah and they've taken interest of lists and whatnot, but it's If you want a P3 right now, so that way when portal does actually finally get off the line, now is the time to buy the cabinet.
01:00:10
Speaker
yeah You can still get the thousand dollars off through us, loserkidpinballpodcast at gmail.com. And we will direct you in the right place for you to get that thousand dollars off. But seriously, this is a game that I'm looking to get into my collection.
01:00:26
Speaker
I am excited for this. This is, this is the, everyone has said it so far. This is the best game that multimorphic has made by far. A hundred percent. And so that this is, if you're going a lot of times, and I know that I've,
01:00:40
Speaker
talked about the the overlap between a game console system and the p3 but this is an anchor title that you can buy and and put in the game you know it's like the super mario brothers that you can buy with that and it's like this is ah if it's not the one title you want it's a solid high quality title that utilizes everything they have yep So I, I, yeah, this game is just awesome.
01:01:09
Speaker
It's just, so so if you're looking at buying it, now's the time. Yep. Definitely. Uh, next one Merlin's arcade. I'm not going lie. i kind of forgot this game even came out. Yeah. Okay. But again, what what's the audience for it, right?
01:01:22
Speaker
This is the grandpa's, this is the grand grandpa's game room for the, the younger kids. It's not super complex. It's a beautiful game.
01:01:34
Speaker
And Turner made it look pretty good actually. So yeah. And it's John Norris. John Norris has done some great designs whatnot. Yeah. I, I, now I haven't played it yet.
01:01:45
Speaker
Okay. So that im ah if I make it to expo, I will definitely, that'll be one of the, those to check off. Same here. It's ah I guess it met my expectations.
01:01:58
Speaker
ah is didn't maybe i I thought the Ninja Eclipse was actually pretty cool. yeah I would say this is probably a little step down. um feels a little Great Wolf Lodge-y where it's geared toward like the 7 to 12 year old integration.
01:02:16
Speaker
Maybe maybe that that demographic, but still fun. um i didn't really have an expectation, so I guess I exceeded it. ah yeah I like 8 Ball Deluxe. It reminds me of that.
01:02:28
Speaker
with ah an upgraded medieval arcade. Yeah. don't know. I I'm with you. I'm I'd be excited to play this ad expo. They had four or five ninja eclipses there and they all sold pretty quick.
01:02:40
Speaker
So I assume this is gonna be the same situation. He's probably gonna bring some more on our kids up there. We'll get to play them. What not? ah Dune ah way over, ah like over and above.
01:02:52
Speaker
Like, yeah I, it's a great theme. It's a modern theme. It has super fans out there. ah this could give Jersey Jack a run for their, their King of the mountain on theme integration.
01:03:09
Speaker
Yeah. It really could with their environmental lighting and, and making that and having like the, uh, I don't know what it's called. The, the worm in the back that has like five different ways of yeah the sandworm sandworm.
01:03:25
Speaker
Uh, but mean, really talk about not having a sophomore slump. You're going right from labyrinth into dune. Uh, you, I don't see how you could have a better second release on a game.
01:03:38
Speaker
I agree. I cannot wait to get my hands on this game. This game looks insane. Thank you, David Van Est and Brian Savage for allowing us to do that. that Oh yeah, that was great.
01:03:49
Speaker
Getting a sneak peek and getting it out oh yeah at the same time. And be able to go through the game with the glass off. It was so cool to like just interact with this game. It's just really, really cool.
01:04:00
Speaker
um i I felt like it exceeded expectations. I didn't have a... I hadn't watched doing until the week before we knew this was coming out. And, um, I just, I, my, my only concern is, is code has not caught up to where this, game this game should be at.
01:04:21
Speaker
Uh, but I know, do you have any doubt where, where Labyrinth was at? I have no doubts. No, I know Dune will do great. And I think once they get that code under their belt, uh, I think these will sell like hotcakes.
01:04:34
Speaker
Um, I guess the question is, is the train already left the station? Because let's, let's be honest. Okay. what What else we got? We got King Kong yeah and we have Harry Potter and predator.
01:04:45
Speaker
So we will get to those really quick, but the problem is i think 2025 has it been one of the best years for pinball.
01:04:56
Speaker
In a long while. Yeah. It's had a lot of quality, at least yes exceeding expectations on what you expected the release to do. Yeah. For me, I own King Kong. um It exceeded my expectations.
01:05:12
Speaker
Everyone always does because he just, there's a creativeness to that, his mind that you don't get from anyone else. I feel like. ah With the flow and with the rule set, it's funny because his rule sets are really deep, but they are very basic in nature of this is what you need to do.
01:05:30
Speaker
And one thing he does in his games that I don't feel like a lot of people do is he has dedicated LEDs for certain shots, right? Like the climb feature on King Kong. those arrows are specifically just for that feature. yeah And so I feel like it gives that throwback to that Valley Williams vibe.
01:05:46
Speaker
It's like medieval madness. You know what you're doing on medieval madness. If you don't, then you're blind. Yep. And so King Kong has to be the code. I feel like it's a little bit more simple, but it's because the layout is so it's, it's it's probably one of his harder playing layouts. Yeah.
01:06:08
Speaker
um It's a great game though. It far exceeded. How about for you? i no It's unfair because um at some point you're chasing like you're chasing your own shadow.
01:06:20
Speaker
Yeah. And you know, it's a, this is what, this is what happens in the tennis world where people are talking about like Djokovic and they're like, well, he's not as good as he once was. And you're like, okay, the dude's 38 and he made it to the semifinals of Wimbledon.
01:06:40
Speaker
Yeah. Like he's, are what are we talking about here? It's this guy has, he already has a hall of fame resume, resume. You know, Elwynn hasn't, and on on all of his cornerstone games, they have all been solid, solid, solid.
01:07:00
Speaker
And so when I say meets expectations, that's a pretty high bar. It met Elwynn's expectations of this is a game that i i would have no hesitation in buying and putting in my collection.
01:07:14
Speaker
i and so And he also, this is actually one Owen game where the pro is a really solid option. Like you don't feel like you're missing much. Yeah. So that that's, if there, if, if there's only, with Godzilla, it's like, I don't understand why you would get the pro over the premium on Godzilla.
01:07:35
Speaker
yeah But on this one, I'm like, I could totally get saying like, no, I'll just save the 2000 bucks and I'll get the pro. it I totally get that. So I can just say solidly met the, the ungodly expectations that this guy does.
01:07:48
Speaker
Yeah. here This might be controversial, but I'm going to say it anyway. I think Ellen has the team management of Larry DeMar with the unique layout design of Pat Lawler, who also has the pinball knowledge of a Roger Sharp with the code understanding of death as alignment sheets.
01:08:10
Speaker
Yes, yes. And yes. And yes. See, yeah, you're not getting that anywhere else. And that's what makes that's when you take a King Kong game that is pretty much
Pinball Design and Licensing Challenges
01:08:22
Speaker
non-licensed. Yeah. It's based off the book, whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Everyone knows that it's about a big monkey, but it's not, that that's not pushing units.
01:08:30
Speaker
Exactly. This game. has sold fairly well for what it is. You know what I'm saying? Like where a theme is King and and don't get me wrong.
01:08:41
Speaker
You, there is a ceiling to that, right? Sure. When you go then that quote unquote non theme, there is a ceiling to that regardless of what the theme is. Sure. But anybody who's designing it, does anybody in pinball look at an L one game and say, man, this, this guy really needs to step it up.
01:09:00
Speaker
Uh, no. And I think even people that aren't into pinball can walk into a room, a game room and they they can tell there's something unique about that versus everything else. Yep. right. Harry Potter.
01:09:11
Speaker
That's the next one after King Kong. ah
01:09:15
Speaker
We talked about, we just talked about that uniqueness when you walk into a room and you feel like It's different. You get that with Harry Potter. You're going to walk to Harry Potter. It, a casual fan is going to walk into a room. And if there's a Harry Potter, that's the first game played.
01:09:32
Speaker
Okay. Uh, and the, the fact that they were able to, you know, what was the rumor always about Harry Potter? It's not going to have any assets.
01:09:43
Speaker
It's going to be like Hogwarts. It's not going corn door. Hogwarts legacy. Oh yeah. This is going to have none of the actors, none of the assets. It's going to be, you know, it's and a little bit like Jurassic park, right? Where it's like, yeah, you're not getting to any, anybody. You're just in the Harry Potter world. You get Nedry. Yeah.
01:10:01
Speaker
yeah and Yeah. Even though every time it drains, I think nerdy, why does it say nerdy? Um, But yeah wow, them coming out with a with full assets, all seven movies all you know all seven books, all eight movies, and being able to do this to a level that is the creative layout with the staircase diverters,
01:10:30
Speaker
Um, wow. Uh, it, I was concerned that with, when you pay so much for a license, you're going to sacrifice how much you can pack under the game play.
01:10:40
Speaker
Yeah. But it's, this is, i when people say this is the best Jersey Jack, I can't disagree. And we're talking high level players. I mean, Tom Groff, who a high level player. He's like, this is a great game.
01:10:56
Speaker
Yeah. There's something special game. something special about So – You know what they said – you know what Josh Sharp and Zach Sharp said about the graphs, right? Like even the dog plays great pinball at that house. Like they wish they could be in the graph family because they're that good at pinball. Wow, yeah. that That's actually pretty high marks considering Josh and Zach and Roger yeah are all amazing. Yeah. Yeah.
01:11:20
Speaker
ye That's – and so, okay, I don't – I wish it were a little, um it was like the slowest rollout ever. Yeah. I just wish were a little faster, but they actually did make it pretty much, you know, roughly under a year after avatar.
01:11:41
Speaker
I think that but they did the best they could. I really do. I think the licensor was, well, okay, here's the thing. And we'll say this. I know that no manufacturer will say this publicly, but I will say it for them.
01:11:52
Speaker
And if I get in trouble, I'll get a message tomorrow. I know I will. Uh, they cannot say that a licensor is being a pain in the butt. And the reason being, no way yeah there's no way there's there's no And the reason being is, is because let's say they want to use another license from that, from that person. Right. Obviously Disney uses, they has a bunch of licenses.
01:12:12
Speaker
If you say the licensor sucked on this and we're like, it was just the worst experience they ever had. You're going to get a message. Yeah. Or if you attempt to go for an another license, they'll be like, go pound sand. Like the last time you worked with this, you said we were terrible. However, I, I don't get that feeling on this one.
01:12:28
Speaker
I get that. And I'm not saying, sorry, I should not interjected it right there. way You did. Yeah. yeah So I, I didn't get the feeling on Harry Potter that it was a, it was a challenging licensing thing.
01:12:41
Speaker
They're extremely jealous and meticulous of their product, but this is absolutely not a James Bond situation. Yeah. So it's that they are never told us bond was like that. Where are you getting that information? Yeah. Oh yeah. Weird, huh?
01:12:55
Speaker
Yeah. yeah Uh, but the, that's the one thing to remember is that they, They're extremely involved. However, this is a complex, layered, ah you know, ah just a layered presentation of any theme and for them to get it as good as they did. Now, we know we know about the AI in the art controversy, but that's still small compared to everything else in the game.
01:13:26
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah.
Gaming Industry Reflections and Personal Preferences
01:13:27
Speaker
And I guarantee the only people that noticed it, it was like, huh, that's interesting. Okay, great. Pull the plunger. You know, it's, it's not it. Every, every release is going to have something that you're like, huh, that's weird.
01:13:41
Speaker
Hey, shark, you know, shark, no eat ball or, you know, yeah what things like that. Right. Hey, let's up. Let's have a stairway to heaven. You know, it's, there's always going to be something that's going to be a detractor on a game, but this is still, it's,
01:13:55
Speaker
a dynamite presentation and, and bringing back the arcade model. Yeah. Amazing. Bringing back the arcade model, making something that is a little more accessible and they're still, they're still expensive, but still, still a premium product ah that you can put on location.
01:14:13
Speaker
So did it meet, so it exceeded expectations. Yeah. i by far I thought this was going to be such a challenging license that why would you ever try to do it? And, Wow. I mean, Eric did a great job. we I joked with him cause I was at, I was in Chicago, um but maybe like two, two weeks before launch.
01:14:32
Speaker
And I was just like, Hey, i could just swing by you. You want to get something? I think actually was like, I was just working on the machine to cut my hands. and I'm like, I'm sleeping at the, at the studio. So.
01:14:46
Speaker
All right. Last one. Predator. And I, yeah okay, I actually watched Predator the other day because it was on on TV.
01:14:56
Speaker
I will point out that Predator, it's super cheesy, like watching it now. like I thought that it was like, this is an awesome show.
01:15:10
Speaker
And it still is when you're looking at it from like a 1984 lens. But it's like it it doesn't hold up nearly as much as I thought it Like the jokes are r comically bad.
01:15:24
Speaker
Yeah, comically bad. i the the the ah the The locker room boys jokes. You're like, these are terrible jokes. Like subjectively terrible jokes. They're not even funny. They're just. No.
01:15:35
Speaker
Yeah. it's They're awkward jokes. And i just, you know, it comes down to licensing. And I know that this is a challenge. They probably did the best they could given the situation they have.
01:15:50
Speaker
Um, you know, but if you're going to make a predator, you probably want Arnold in there somewhere. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, that's the challenge. Yeah. And I think this is the thing is like, uh, Travis had said this on the last triple drain. Once you look at it and you think whirlwind, like you can't unsee it. Yeah. And I thought that like two weeks ago, like after I did the interview and everything thought that, and I got looking, like I'd compared it to Richie and some Ellen stuff. And I got looking, I'm like, no, this is, this is whirlwind. Like it's almost to a T. Yeah.
01:16:19
Speaker
But, you know, a white body version I want to play it. I want to play it because I don't want to I don't want to be unfair. um yeah We wish that it were a little more complete. But know given that even me watching the movie, I was like, oh, maybe that's not like it's not as great as remember it being.
01:16:36
Speaker
Okay. The last minute, um we're going to wrap this up really quick. Nice bow. ah I'm going to rapid fire these off. you so if If money wasn't a problem, didn't matter if your family saw it or not in your collection and space wasn't a problem.
01:16:49
Speaker
Yes or no into the collection, right? Okay. Evil dead. Yes or no? I think yes for me. Okay. Dungeons and Dragons. Um, no, just because it's not, it's not my style of game.
01:17:02
Speaker
Yeah. Same here portal. Yes. hundred percent. Yes. Merlin's arcade. Okay. But okay. However, every single one of these, i would play on location.
01:17:14
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I would go, I would go and play on location. I wouldn't walk past. There are a few that I'm like, ah, yeah, but but so far i was still, at least I'd put, I'd put $2 in. Yep. Okay. Yeah.
01:17:25
Speaker
Uh, no from early arcade for me, Dune, Dune,
01:17:31
Speaker
maybe. Okay. Just because I really want to see it up close and yeah the theme doesn't have as much. ah It's a great theme. It's a great environment.
01:17:43
Speaker
And it's, it's just, I look at the themes that I have in my basement. I'm like, I kind of like those, that theme vibe. But if I, if I had the space, yes, I would buy it.
01:17:55
Speaker
If I had the space, I would buy it, but I'm limited to 10. Okay. Yes. For me on Dune, uh, King Kong, obviously it's a yes for me. Yeah. it's yeah That's a hundred percent. Yep. Uh, Harry Potter. Yeah. I, I will get it at some point. Yeah. I mean, question. Yeah. Yeah. If, if, if money wasn't an object and space was an object, I'm going collector edition every day and it's, it's going right, right. yeah I really am excited to see the collector's edition. Yeah.
01:18:21
Speaker
And pre i I look, I love the collector's edition just because it's a little more of the book vibe, like the art predator. I doubt it. um
Industry Contraction and Community Involvement
01:18:31
Speaker
Wide bodies. I'm not a huge fan of.
01:18:33
Speaker
I did play alien on Saturday and it's just the same thing. It's like, it doesn't feel it. It's just not fast enough. It just feels kind of like, you know, the only wide body I have down here is Wizard of Oz.
01:18:48
Speaker
Yeah. And it's just that, okay, that fits for the theme. Wizard of Oz is not like a, it's not, Wizard of Oz is not a brutal movie, right? Yeah. um Predator probably should be, it should have been a narrow body, but I i doubt that I would be interested, but I haven't played it yet.
01:19:05
Speaker
So I just want to point out like it was pretty much 60, 40, 60% of like we would put in our collection. Yeah. I don't remember a year so far. no there there was a lot of them that I was like pass, pass, pass.
01:19:16
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Um, ah just, I mean, even looking over last year, i mean, yeah yeah, I just think that overall the, the quality pinball is getting to a point where it's like, we're fighting for dollars right now and, and everyone's bringing their a game.
01:19:35
Speaker
Um, Yeah. I, I, I can't wait to play hard because pinball is contracting a little bit. Yeah. It's not, you know, we're coming out of that post COVID bubble where you could, you know, you could throw out an average product and it would still sell tons.
01:19:51
Speaker
Yep. Like you're not getting that anymore. And the used market is if you're looking for deals, you're going find them. Definitely. like If you want to get ahold of us, we are loser kid pinball podcast at gmail.com.
01:20:02
Speaker
ah on all the socials, Facebook, Instagram, X, Twitch, YouTube, at LoserKidPinball. ah Yeah, SilverBallSwag.com. If you like the jersey, we are actually supporting Papa 22 this year.
01:20:15
Speaker
We'll have some exclusive merchandise there to raffle off to help with. nine, eight, eight, which is the ah suicide help. Um, and Penny Epstein, Penny Epstein is, is, is pushing that. And she reached out to us and we were happy to contribute.
01:20:33
Speaker
Yep. So happy to contribute. So I'm going to be working with silver ball swag to get some exclusive merch there for that, to help with the, the charity and the auction and whatnot. Uh, one other thing I want to point out really quick flipping out podcast is now a thing.
01:20:49
Speaker
Ken Cromwell and Greg bone are destroying it. They're doing great. They've got a great chemistry. If you've not checked it out, just go to your podcatcher feed and type in the plus symbol and flipping out pinball is not an hour long commercial for their product is banter between Ken Cromwell and jaron and Greg Bone, and they're doing a great job. Well, speaking of get getting back in your wheelhouse, mean, Ken's wheelhouse was podcasting before he he joined Jersey Jack for those five years. So it's nice to see him get back in the saddle. Yep.
01:21:20
Speaker
right, Scott, give us our last words. So I'm wearing my flag hat again on my head, but because ah this is the patriotic month all in Utah, ah because we have 4th of July, but we also have pioneers. So I have pioneer heritage and they came to Utah when it was sagebrush and rattlesnakes. So ah happy 24th to all the, all the pioneers who, who ah went, went through and braved the frontier to set up the beautiful state of Utah.
01:21:49
Speaker
Um, And yeah, it's great. i'm but I'm very grateful for the sacrifice they made. Same here. Thank you to our ancestors that that settled this land. And happy 25th to me. i will be 38 on Friday. That's true. I forgot. Happy birthday to Josh. I wore hat for Josh.
01:22:06
Speaker
Thanks.