Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Hammering Away Ep #7 - Declan Rice
174 Plays2 years ago
On today's episode of the podcast, Jack, Joe, and Raph discuss Declan Rice's imminent departure from the club, how he's handled it, possible replacements, and the kind of package it should take to allow him to leave West Ham.
Music by: @ANTlll & LADI OGUN
Twitter: @Hammering_Away
Blog: hammering-away.blog
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and New Host Introduction
00:00:02
Speaker
Remind.
00:00:27
Speaker
to the Hammering Away podcast. This is episode seven. It's been a minute since we recorded one you may have noticed, but we're back and better than ever. We're gonna get back to churning these out weekly and actually have three people every time and we don't have any plans of missing a week ever again. I'm with Joe today. I'm with Raphael, who I don't believe has been on the podcast yet, but this is gonna be the group now. So you guys wanna say what's up?
00:01:00
Speaker
Hello, everyone. Good to be back. I've been missing doing these, and hopefully now, during the summer, we'll have a lot to talk about. Yeah. Afternoon, everyone. It's good to be here on this rather prestigious podcast. You should feel privileged. You should feel very privileged. I am. Don't worry.
Declan Rice's Potential Transfer Drama
00:01:23
Speaker
So in my opinion, there's really only one place to start.
00:01:27
Speaker
when we talk about West Ham United and what is going on over there. And that is our good friend Declan Rice and his desire to leave, we'll call it. Yeah. I mean, I kind of requested that once we got back into this podcast, that we were not going to talk about rice until something like actually happened. But I mean, I guess it's kind of unavoidable since it is pretty like connected to
00:01:57
Speaker
you know, the rest of what we like are trying to do this summer. So I don't know. I'm not happy with him at all. Like I didn't think it would get to this point where I would just be totally done with him. But at this point, like he's totally, he's just, for me, he's not ruined what he's done. Cause he gave us a trophy and all that. No, no. Say what you really feel, dude. Don't, don't put on
00:02:25
Speaker
like the PR hoodie and blanket on the podcast, like say what you feel. Well, that's true. Like he didn't ruin everything. But, but I will never respect him again. He's completely lost my respect in the last two weeks. Why? It's, it's not just wanting to leave. It's the, the fact that he's,
00:02:52
Speaker
told Manchester City and Manchester United, the only two actual, and Bayern, by the way, the only other three credible teams that could put an offer for him, he told them all that he would not, under any circumstances, go to those teams. And what effect does that have? Well, we got a
00:03:16
Speaker
two awful offers so far. I mean, that first offer was disgusting. 60 million? Yeah, the first offers. I mean, Havert's got more upfront than Rice. I mean, that's just ridiculous. And the fact that- But the thing I would say, not to cut you off, but the thing I would say is like, he doesn't really owe us like going where
West Ham's Negotiation Challenges
00:03:41
Speaker
he doesn't want to go. He knows, like, let me finish. Like he knows that he has the world at his feet.
00:03:46
Speaker
And he knows he can go wherever he wants in football. He doesn't want to leave London. He has a family in London. That's fine. I can totally respect that. It's very annoying that he has apparently rejected those three clubs, especially the two Manchester clubs. But I'm not convinced that there's nothing they can do to sway him. We might still see it. But there's a report today that United are eyeing up looking, coming in for him, using a money plus player's deal. So I don't think that they're completely out of the race.
00:04:15
Speaker
We'll see what the reality is. But I mean, at this point, that's what he said. That's what he's done is he's told those clubs not to come in for him. Whether or not they do is one thing. But I mean, he he and he does have, you know, some agency of where he goes. But at the end of the day, he's the captain of this club and he's leaving. The very least he can do is at least entertain these other clubs and, you know, drive up the price for a bidding war.
00:04:45
Speaker
Yeah, but I think he's nervous that Arsenal would lose any bidding war. He knows that they would lose a bidding war. Well, then he shouldn't go to a shit club. That's like fair, yeah. Graf, what's your take on Mr. Declan Rice?
00:05:03
Speaker
Well, I don't personally blame him for wanting Arsenal, even though I know like we as a fanbase would rather see him go to Sey City or Bayern even, I think. On a personal level, I don't blame him because if you take into consideration the options, right? I don't think Chelsea are like a realistic option anymore because they're going for Quesedo.
00:05:24
Speaker
Um, you know, I said, not only cause they're going for Quesada cause they've got Enzo, but he, and also I think, I think people underestimate how much the entire like Mount fiasco has affected Rice as well in terms of what he thinks of a return to Stanford bridge. Cause you consider, I mean, well at this time, two years ago, it seemed everything pointed to him going there. But then you've looked at the developments, um, with like Mount and the way he's being treated by their fans.
00:05:52
Speaker
I assume that's had some sort of an impact on him. I don't blame him on a personal level for going to Arsenal or wanting to go there because I think Bayern is a hard like adaptation to make for anyone especially when you're so young and you know he's got a young kid as well coming through and he's got a girlfriend so he wouldn't want to like leave London right and also I think at Arsenal his role would be far
00:06:18
Speaker
bigger for him than at City. I mean, our soul, alongside Saka and Odegard, I'd imagine he'd be, you know, face of the team, right, on all the matchday posters and the graphics outside the Emirates. And also, I think, you know, Roger is a brilliant player, right? There's no denying that. And Rice would fit that City team amazingly as well. But
00:06:39
Speaker
Rodry isn't really, in my opinion, he's amazing, don't get me wrong, by any means, but I think Rice, so much of his game is like expressing himself, right? His long passes, his driving runs forward, when he decides to lead the press, press up on the center house in midfielders. I think, does Rodry do any of that? I mean, obviously he can. So this is a completely different conversation, but when it comes to Rice, wait, no, no, no, like when it comes to Rice playing for Citi,
00:07:08
Speaker
I don't think that he would play in Rodger's role. Would you say he'd like to settle on such a brilliant role? I think that he would be playing in the Stones role. He'd be replacing Gundawan always. I think that Pep would do a lot more with Rice. Right. So say, say Bernardo stays. Yeah. Say, say Bernardo stays. Do you reckon he'd play him over Bernardo in a mutual three? I, I personally wouldn't.
00:07:37
Speaker
I think he'd probably look assisted by that. I think that he wouldn't fit the gun to one role. So would he go center back? Because I've got what? D.S. Laporte. Personally, I think that he would try and make him work in the Stones role, but I think that he would play a lot of Rice and Rodgeri together. Right. I'm not sure. I just feel like at Arsenal, he'd
Market Value and Comparisons
00:07:59
Speaker
be able to personally express himself more. No, I agree. He'd be guaranteed like 1000% to start every single game.
00:08:06
Speaker
on an individual level. The other thing is though, I don't blame him for wanting to go there, whatever we think. I think my bigger issue is the way he's going about it. If he wanted to bow... How has he gone about it badly though? I don't understand. If he wanted to tell Arsenal privately and West Ham privately, that's the move he wants.
00:08:25
Speaker
then that would have been fine, right? Because then we could still... How is he supposed to do something privately when like, X is giving out every little piece of information that there is that we're in the most, we're in the most... Well, yeah, I get it. On private time in sport and history. You can't do that. Yeah, but there's a difference. He could have at least tried whilst on the other hand, you know, going to all these clubs. How do you know he didn't try?
00:08:52
Speaker
From what? Well, because the report is literally that he's gone around and told these other clubs. Now, obviously we want to take it all over the pinch of soul. But I think from a, and he doesn't, I think he's done enough for us to the point that it's, it's kind of our responsibility to try and get him the move he wants. Right. Cause it's, he's won us a trophy. Like that is our responsibility. Like I know it, it exists in basketball, right? You see all these people, like all these franchises try to get their stars to where they want when they blow it up.
00:09:21
Speaker
And I feel like we're in a kind of similar situation with rice in terms of moving him up. But I just think, you know, this is easily by far the singular most valuable asset we will ever have in our club's history and possibly like the most expensive asset
00:09:40
Speaker
any British club might ever keep putting on the market. He should be the transfer record for English players. Yeah, because I'm not saying he's more valuable than everyone else, but is Foden ever going to hit the market? Probably not really. Is Saka ever going to hit the market? No, not really. Foden might hit the market one day, but if players like Foden hit the market, it's not because that they're too good. Yeah.
00:10:06
Speaker
It's because they have a year left in their contract and they want to leave. It's because they've fallen off a cliff. It's things like that. Age-wise, Rice is arguably more valuable. I don't think Kay will leave this summer and I think next summer you'd have to see how his value reciprocates or rises again.
00:10:25
Speaker
I just think the way he rises handled it. Now I don't want to blame him on an individual level like too much because I feel, you know, it's a young guy going through his like first big chance for saga. Who is his agent? His agent is dad. Like he's not even got like a... He hasn't got a particularly professional agent either. So you wouldn't be like brilliantly advised by, you know, someone experienced in this type of thing. But I think going out of his way to tell these clubs and that directly impacts how much you're going to get for him because it prevents a bidding war.
00:10:54
Speaker
and it prevents us from having that leverage in Arsenal being able to say, you know, you don't cough up this much money, you don't get it. Do you know what I mean? Here's the thing. I don't think that Rice would be upset staying. I think Rice's main priority is to stay in London. And obviously he wants to play for Arsenal more than any other club next season.
00:11:14
Speaker
But I think that we have enough for leverage to be like, we will let our assets appreciate, which I hope that we don't. We have enough leverage to just be like, we won't sell you and we don't need our asking place. And I don't think he would have an issue with that. I don't think he's actually done anything that wrong by us, by telling clubs that he doesn't want to go there, I guess.
00:11:37
Speaker
If he had a more professional agent, they would have played it differently, not only to get a bidding war going, but to get his wages higher, his contract higher, things like that. But I don't feel like I've been done wrong. No, I don't think he's
Future Prospects for Rice and West Ham
00:11:53
Speaker
done wrong, but it is definitely a tad jarring what he's done because it definitely impacts how much money we're going to get, for sure. But like a solid 10, 20 million, which can be a lot in today's market.
00:12:03
Speaker
Well, Jack, when you say that he's willing to stay, he wouldn't be too mad about staying. That's what happens. Are you suggesting that he would possibly be open to signing a contract? Because I completely disagree with that. I wasn't suggesting that. I don't think he'd just... I was suggesting that he be open. I think that Declan Rice,
00:12:28
Speaker
Like, because it doesn't affect him negatively in any way, he would stay and leave on a free. But we have a responsibility to ourselves to go and get a fee and not lose an asset that's valuable for nothing. It's just not what's possible. It's not realistic for us to... But the thing that I'm saying is like he has two years left in his deal. And I'm not saying that we should do this.
00:12:57
Speaker
Cause like when you start looking at it, then it's like, okay, 90 million. Like, do you take that if the installments are right? Like personally, I don't accept anything under a hundred, but when it comes to rice, shit, I lost my train of thought. I don't think he'd like reject a contract offer out of hand. Oh yeah. But he, he doesn't owe us anything.
00:13:23
Speaker
He knows he's being responsible as the club captain while he's still here until the transplant. He's won us a trophy. He doesn't owe us driving up his own price. No, he doesn't owe it to us. And I think that we would be okay instead of getting 100 million fee this summer, I think that we'd be okay getting 70 million next summer if we don't get 100 million. We are not getting 70 million this summer. We just got offered 80.
00:13:51
Speaker
The only thing I'll say is, the other thing I'll say is all this conversation, I don't think, I think that Arsenal will eventually cough up a package of $195. Yeah. But the thing is, this is the issue, right? I think, I think when Mois said in that interview, like, I think in February or March, that he wanted $120. I don't think that was ever a realistic target.
00:14:15
Speaker
But I'm still negotiating. Yes, but I'm still in the opinion that the base price without add-ons or anything should have been 100 always. Now, I don't know if add-ons should range between, you know, 10, 5, 15, somewhere around there. But I think the base price should always have been 100. I've said for months that we're going to get somewhere between 90 and 95 plus 10 or 15. The total package should have been, at the very least,
00:14:43
Speaker
the equivalent of him becoming the record transfer. And it's not, we're not even getting more than Haverts money right now. So that's what we are. That's the second offer was more than Haverts to be fair. The second offer. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm not saying I'm not saying that their offers haven't been embarrassing. I'm just saying like, it's really fucking annoying that he's not helping us travel the price. And it's also really annoying that the price started where it started. But it is a part of negotiating.
00:15:11
Speaker
That's why we asked for 120, that's why they bid 75 cents. I can't help but wonder what went wrong because obviously I'm not saying they had to comply with what we wanted straight away.
00:15:23
Speaker
But consider we've probably been in like, you know, touch and go negotiations with them for maybe a month prior to the first offer or so, maybe a couple of weeks. Probably a few months. That their first offer would have been so low is concerning because, you know, we say it's an embarrassing offer, absolutely is. But I don't know if Arsenal would really offer that much beneath our asking price.
00:15:47
Speaker
Arsenal, Arsenal, Arsenal have shown that they do that. Oh, no, they're sitting in the kitchen is for sure. They like they like I understand that they were in negotiations with us like feeling out the price. But they probably like I think that rice wanting only them was something that came along later like after we had won the conference league because he said that he wasn't doing anything besides focusing on us.
00:16:13
Speaker
after the season ended. So I think that that new information put them back in that mindset that they have a Mujic where they're like, we're going to drive this price down. Yeah. But Mujic's not their player. So hopefully, you know, just neither somebody come in and like, whatever. The other concern with the rightism, I'm not doubting his mentality by any means. And I don't think it really was to do with transfers or anything, but he's obviously been outstanding this year. He's the like consensus hammer of the year and everything. But
00:16:43
Speaker
Do you remember the start of last season, like the first three games specifically, four games where he really looked out of it, like mentally and physically? Like he really was... Like at the beginning of this season, like when we lost the... Yeah, like, you know, that city bright and forest... Well, he was great against City, so I don't really... He was all right, you can say. To be fair, I can't stretch that game. He was great against City. I was in the stands for that game, like really low near the goal, so I couldn't tell you like... You respect that in my personal opinion.
00:17:12
Speaker
But I think, especially against Brighton, he wasn't running as hard as he was, but that's not really my concern, right? My concern was more his body language towards the other players. And it's gone better throughout the season for sure, but it's still there. But specifically at the start of the season, and I can't wonder,
00:17:30
Speaker
i can't help but wonder if
Fan Reactions to Rice's Decisions
00:17:32
Speaker
you know if he doesn't get his move if his move collapses and he's forced to stay another six months if some of that frustration might play out on the pitch for the opening i think that there is some truth to what you're saying but i also think that he's always just been an animated guy and he's always gotten really frustrated i think i think it's it's almost odd how we criticize someone for showing leadership but
00:17:53
Speaker
at some points in those opening weeks. I think it got worse. In November, right before the World Cup, I think it got worse. I think the only game I can remember where it really was worse in my opinion in those opening weeks was when we got Thrasher to Brighton at the Amex. I remember there was at one point he responded to an Instagram comment about it, and then after that he kind of just... He needs a social media monitor of some sort.
00:18:24
Speaker
We certainly can't be DMing Alan Rezeppa. He certainly can't be DMing Alan Rezeppa. No, he can't be doing that. He also can't be like following Anjutee. Oh yeah. What exactly was the Instagram comment again? Do you remember what part of the season it was? I always know him throwing his hands up.
00:18:40
Speaker
Yeah, I remember this, I remember this. Which should be fair, I get because I think as a footballer, right, like your job almost is to play, I think something, he definitely plays for personal success, but I think in Rice, more than anyone, he plays for the fans, because he knows what it's like to be one of those. I mean, from like a Chelsea perspective, but still, he's been here since he was young.
00:19:02
Speaker
I feel like a lot of what he's done has just been driven by wanting to give us one last thing to celebrate before he goes. And he did that. Yeah, so I think, yeah, but I'm saying, so I think his reaction to that comment is justifiable because I think it must be so tough as a professional footballer, like as a Mason Mount or Declan Rice, seeing your own fan base that you were a part of turn on you to some extent. No, yeah. I'd be really sad if we gave him the Grealish treatment if he does leave him.
00:19:32
Speaker
The thing is that it's always going to be some people do, some people hate them, some people love them. It's frustrating what he's done with going out of his way to tell other clubs his own interest in Arsenal. It's frustrating and it's annoying, but at the end of the day I really hope he doesn't get given the Grealish. I was going to say Calvin Phillips, but I don't know if he's played against Leeds.
00:19:55
Speaker
Well, Grealish actually handled his situation better than Rice. Oh, Grealish. Yeah, but the thing is, to be fair, Grealish came out of fucking nowhere.
00:20:05
Speaker
I can't even remember. He had a release for the official. Yeah, they agreed on a fee. They said whoever comes in comes in and that's it. And yeah, the only like I remember he was like announced on that Villa kit launch and like two days later he was in a city shirt. Like it wasn't a drawn up saga. But the thing that's also different is that Rice has been hyped about getting the move for however long. Four years. And the other thing is that Manchester, like Manchester City moved differently on their transfer targets.
00:20:33
Speaker
than Arsenal do. City finish like their transfer quote unquote sagas extremely quickly. I remember when they signed Bernardo Silva, it was not even a report about that as far as I remember. You go through all their signings, like they do everything quickly. Given the context, I do wonder if Sissy do make an offer, do you think they'll like genuinely blow us out of the water? Like, you know, here's 110 and another 10 later.
00:21:00
Speaker
Like, do you think they'll do that? Or do you think they'll try to, you know, nimble away? I don't think start at like 85, 90 plus Phillips. I just gave a hundred for Grealish. This isn't, I don't really see like the glaring need for, for Rice right now for them. That's why they're not in it right now. I don't see it, but I think, Hey, you also have to consider, I know people are going to say it's ruining football, but there is that thing about, you know, getting your other, your opponent's targets, right? That is a thing.
00:21:31
Speaker
I mean, if City get Arsenal, sorry, if City get Rice, they're set for the next half decade. I don't really see the fit towards the City, but the thing is that you have the best coach in the world and one of the hardest workers in the league. He's going to find a place in that team, whether it's next to Roger and Roger's spot,
00:21:58
Speaker
playing in the Stones' role. I don't fucking know if Pep's going to use two center backs as midfielders and two BM's as center backs.
West Ham's Transfer Strategy
00:22:06
Speaker
No, I don't doubt, I don't doubt Peps' ability to do it. It's just that like... It's weird. There was a hole for Grealist to fill with Grealist leaving and all that. With Sun-In. But that's what I'm asking now. If your city, what holes do you have to fill? I guess you have to replace Walker. The Good and the Good. So that's back. I mean, that's the other thing, right? The first thing to go on and you can use Sage. In theory, do you reckon they would try something with like, Rice and the Stones, and then Stones out at Fullbuck? Do you reckon they'd try something like that?
00:22:34
Speaker
That's like, yeah, that's not the only thing they can use out wide. I don't know, like full back position I can see as well. We'll see. I don't know. But like, you know, when we talk about rice, we do also have to talk about the replacements that are inevitably going to have to come in at some point. How many people do we have right now on like the rumored shortlist? We've got Philfano, Musa. I saw a report about Adams last night.
00:23:02
Speaker
Phillips, Helene, Alvarez, Phillips, Ward, Travis. Is that anyone else? There's been a couple of others, right? Did we get linked with Tyler Adams? Where did you see that? Yeah, last night. Oh, was it today? I'm like transfer checker or something. I'll call it up. It's about time, because that's one of my favorite players. He would fit really well. I think he'd be really good.
00:23:32
Speaker
Where was this? What's weird about our transfers is that we're really not going to do anything until Skye can't hinge in. We're not going to make any moves until we hire a technical director. And I'm sure while he's drawing up shortlist and stuff, we probably won't do anything for another week after this. I feel like I'm missing someone on the shortlist. I feel like I'm also trying to think of someone who we got linked with who was actually kind of excited. I mean, there's no nono, but that's more of a wish than a link. As is Laviya.
00:24:01
Speaker
calling you. No, I think that's it. I think you got everybody. Have we been linked? Joe, I texted you today about something. Oh, Alex Scott. We were on. Alex Scott. Oh my. We were on with Alex Scott. Yeah. That's something that really gets me excited.
00:24:17
Speaker
Because he's also cheap as well. They want 25 million. That's not much. That's not much like a young player. It's doable. Look, he's 19 and he has an elite skill. His ball carrying is insane. The only issues are A, he's a Tottenham fan and B is from Guernsey. So it's a bit rough. He's a Tottenham fan. Yeah, he's a Tottenham fan. I don't give a shipper. He's going to carry a ball through midfield like that. He could be a no-warfar.
00:24:46
Speaker
I mean, he had such a great performance against Citi in the club. I mean, that's kind of a stamp for me. The other thing I'll say is like, look, we tried signing a West Ham fan, Central Midfielder last year, and half of these fucking hates him. Where has this like downs to Southampton rumor come from, by the way? Is that a real thing? I don't know. All he seems to think, and all he's got exists Patreon also.
00:25:13
Speaker
So do I, I need some shit. Oh, all right, fair enough. But I haven't been on it, so. Yeah, I don't know. I feel like we have no plan. I don't think Moi's rates. We also don't like, look, whatever you think about Flynn Downs, this is not the summer to sell him.
00:25:29
Speaker
Yeah, I don't think we're selling him anyway. But I also don't think it's the season to loan him out because we do need, like we are lacking- No, no, no. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. He should be in our squad next season. Yeah. And I don't, you know, he's not been, he's not like blown us out of the water. And I think Brentford away was a really poor performance, but like he's been- He's done. He's had good games. He's been really good in Europe, I think, especially in the group stage. He was decent in the group stage.
00:25:55
Speaker
Yeah, but still, that's like... I'm just joking. Like, he's... Like, no, yeah, there are things that he does well and he's a useful squad option. Honestly, I couldn't tell you off the top of my head how good he was at Old Trafford. But I remember against Liverpool, I was pretty happy with his performance. You know, Old Trafford... He was playing what? He was playing like right mid. He was playing all that right mid. Yeah, that was at 4-4-2 where he was at... Was that like a bow and a schematic up top?
00:26:24
Speaker
And I was like, that was him and for Niles on the wing. That was suicide. That was an actual suicide. It's hard to judge a player when he's playing. So I don't think he was good defensively anyway. Yeah. Like, but I mean, how much credit can you give him for like, I mean, he wasn't progressing the ball at all. That's been, that's been his problem all year is that he has, doesn't really have the eye for the forward ball. Yeah. Look, man, the game will slow down for him. I'm not. Yeah. But I'm saying, I think, I think he needs to be a tough, more risky with his passing. I think,
00:26:54
Speaker
I agree. Because I think retaining possession is all well and good. He's definitely a talented passer. We all know it. But I think there are times where you have to get the ball forward in some capacity, whether that be like a two yard tap to your fullback or trying to play through the lines to like your center forward, dropping deep. It does have to go forward sometimes. Yeah. He needs to take more risks with the ball. But the thing is, is like he's going to be our fourth tournament next year, hopefully. And I'm OK with that. Fifth or something.
00:27:23
Speaker
So you think we're going to sign three central mcgilders? No. No. Sooshek. That's what you just said. No, I said Finn. So Sooshek, two signings and then downs. You're like, you're 30. You should be able to do like two plus two or something. Dude, get the fuck out of here. I'm 30. What is your issue, man? Good one. I was like, who the fuck is 30?
00:27:52
Speaker
No, yeah, I wasn't counting Paquetto's. I'm counting the two sentiments in future. Has anyone seen, is Paquetto's energy like actually bad or is it just fine? I'm surprised next season hasn't had like a report or anything. It's just fucking shoulder, man. That does worry me. It'll be fine. Especially because it's like in a recurring thing with him, but there's so much time in between now and like our first game. And it's not like he, he's so talented. I'm not really stressed by him like the summer to work.
00:28:23
Speaker
What he needs to do in the summer is like how to score goals, I reckon. He scores goals for Brazil. Yeah, but I think I think with Brazil is he arrives late in the box and he doesn't really do that for us, right? He's either on for suit check doing okay. Yeah, I get it. I get it.
00:28:44
Speaker
Like, because that role is already taken in our team. I don't think you can blame, I don't think you can blame Moise for Paqueta's performances up until the World Cup. Because that was just... His performances were not that bad. He couldn't pass up here in five yards. He couldn't pass up here in five yards. That's not true, dude. You were just being a fucking weirdo. He was great full amount home. No, he wasn't great. He was great in that game. He was great in what game?
00:29:09
Speaker
Fulham at home when we beat them 3-1. Yeah, Fulham at home, he was impeccable, and Skamaka couldn't finish to save his life. But there's like genuine challenges. Okay, wait, wait, wait. So what Fulham game are you talking about? No, no, no, I didn't hear you say Fulham. I thought you were saying like the whole season. I think that... He was good. I guess his main issue before the World Cup was... Lack of confidence. I mean, maybe, but my...
00:29:34
Speaker
Personal, like what I indicated was him not having the same level of chemistry that he's had. He's grown and developed with, you know, Bowen and Antonio Cresswell. Throughout the chemistry in the second half. He was playing the same passes that he was playing in the second half of the season that he was in the first half. That actually arrived. It's just, yeah, it's just that. The only thing is he has, I think what he's done in the second half, he's ironed out his like sloppy gene.
00:30:03
Speaker
Because in the first half there were so many times you just passed like a simple pass out to Kress into touch. I think his role was different. I think his role in the beginning of the season in the second half of the season was different. His role in the first half of the season was to be more of like he was a true number 10 like almost like lingard type. Like your job is to make that final pass. It's like everything you're supposed to do.
00:30:26
Speaker
Whereas in the second half of the season, he had more license to come deeper and control the weather. And I think part of that, I don't think that's all down and with his tactics. I think part of it is that Perchetta wasn't as confident or comfortable in England yet, where he was in the mindset. Also, I don't think Algo works, like abilities to play out the back help. Yeah, there's also that. Yeah, but to be fair, I don't think he was playing as like an out and out 10, because there were games where he did play really deep at the start of the season two.
00:30:53
Speaker
I think he's every come a tad deeper, but I don't think it's like, I don't think he was playing enough. I don't know, dude, his role in the first half of the season was weird. He played a left wing at St. Mary's. That's been a really big issue with Moises treatment of Vlasic is he saw how successful Lingard was in that role. And Lingard's role wasn't to like, you know, play that in size of pass. It was
00:31:12
Speaker
pick up the ball and drive, give it to Antonio and get up to the knock-ons, right? That was his role. Vlassic excels in that role. He's fast, he's got a low center of gravity, he can carry, he makes those runs. The fucker played right mid every single game and left mid once. And the one game he played in the centre he scored. I mean... That's why I'd give him a second chance, especially given Lanzini's leaving. I don't think that's discovered, it's like a deeper thing. I feel like I would keep Vlassic.
Squad Composition for European Competitions
00:31:41
Speaker
I really like he's a fine squat option, I guess, but I don't know. He's young as well. How old is he? He's like 20, 25, 26. I would say younger than that. He's 25. He's younger than Picasso. He turns 26 in October. I just, I think he, it's never going to work here. I wouldn't disagree. I feel like
00:32:01
Speaker
But I just feel like
00:32:21
Speaker
There's someone in there, right? And maybe he doesn't suit a possession style, but he's still got ball carrier. Bowen excels in any style, really. And like, Flasage is a similar mode to Bowen, but he can also play that Lingard role. I think the issue with Flasage was he was being asked
00:32:38
Speaker
But yeah, he has never played in a role that he was comfortable in. I would keep Lassaj around this season too. Like, he can't, like, Lanzini is leaving, Lanzini is leaving, and as a fan base, like, we've loved to preach for however long, like, oh, if a player leaves, you have to replace them. Especially with Europe, we can't have empty slots in our squad, and we can't go out and sign all these players, so just let Lassaj come back. He's obviously a good player. If we make him in a somewhat deep run to Europe this season, that's like,
00:33:06
Speaker
three successive 60 game seasons somewhere around there that's outrageous and we're going to the quarterfinal minimum drop dead time and book that and i feel like piqueta is playing deeper now can we classify piqueta as an a i think we can right i feel well that's what we classified him as well yeah bowman doesn't play sensually cornea doesn't play sensually uh ben rama i've always been a big advocate for ten rama but he doesn't play there and then he shouldn't play there
00:33:33
Speaker
I think that's his best position, to be honest, just off the striker. But maybe that's just me. For Niles, right? For Niles can play 10, but at this point, he's been, like, ironed into a fucking workhorse out on the wing. With Ben Rama, like, Ben Rama can play well as a 10, just on that note. But what Ben Rama's good performances at the 10 are is exactly what Vlas has just built to do there.
00:34:01
Speaker
No, yes, it's because Ben doesn't pick passes like that. Oh, no, like his passing is way too inconsistent. But when he excels as a 10, like specifically, what comes to mind for me was his first start for us his full debut when we played leads away leads. He played as a 10.
00:34:21
Speaker
He had like nine take-ons and he carried the ball through that midfield all game. That's what Vlasic excels at doing is picking up the ball, turning people and driving at the fences. Yeah, which is why I genuinely think, I genuinely think Vlasic can play in that role. Because right now, unless you classify for Niles and Urban Rama as a 10, we do not have an actual 10 in the squad. So what do you do? What do you suggest? Do you suggest that Paquetta plays like in a pivot of some sort? I think I still think Paquetta is better further forward.
00:34:51
Speaker
But no, I think I think then you just like I don't think last you simply cut this should be playing much together If at all glasses should just be that's a different option They could theoretically they could if we're chasing a game. Okay, I know I know I'm playing lower opposition But like I personally like the 433 you get a true six That's gonna sit you get more of like an eight who's gonna destroy and you play pick at the next of them But having lasted just an option I was gonna chase games
00:35:19
Speaker
I thought it would be more, I get the point for sure, but I feel like I don't think Vlasic should be a starter to start. Odds are he's not going to be here at the start of next season, but I feel like the talent is there. He's been pretty good at Torino. I feel like when he's played in that central role, he's been good for us.
00:35:36
Speaker
And I think, I don't know. I think more than anything, it's just a fiscally responsible way to keep your squad big enough to compete on four different fronts. Especially with Paquetta. And he's a lot different than L'Anzini. You're going to have to replace L'Anzini's qualities in the transfer. That's my big concern though. Say we lose race. Would you guys classify Paquetta as like an outstanding ball retainer and passer, specifically like a passing?
00:36:05
Speaker
Yes. I'd say he's really good at it. So he's really good at ball retention instead of outstanding? No, but in terms of passing, I feel like he's not. In terms of recycling possession? Yeah, which is what my concern is. Yeah, Rice is a better possession recycler than him because he's higher up the pitch. But in terms of ball retention, he might be the best in our squad. Yeah, but I mean passing. I mean, specifically passing.
00:36:35
Speaker
Right now, I don't think we have a player like in midfield. I mean, I guess you say Agouer, but he's not a midfielder, who's like genuinely that mold of just, well, downs, but downs is kind of a... He's not, he's not good enough. But I'm saying you don't have that player like Van Zini, who just gets on the ball and passes. Yeah, that's a player that we need to sign. And I think they will sign that player. That's my only issue with our targets right now, is I feel...
00:37:04
Speaker
I feel like none of our, none of our targets are like that mold of player, right? Like that passer. I get Jack's smile, man. That's all. Yeah. Cause I mean, Alvarez and Polina, the two most like the two like nailed on candidates to play as our six. And I feel like they're like.
00:37:27
Speaker
We're just losing so much of what Rice does in possession with those guys. Yeah, but I don't know much about Fafana from Monaco, but there is not a single target we've been linked to. I would say Adams is really good at it, but I don't think there's a single target we've been linked to. It's like a really, really good passer, if that makes sense.
00:37:47
Speaker
Well, the thing with that, in my personal opinion, with it is that like rice does both, right? That's what makes it so special. But we have to remember that we are signing two center mids. So in my personal opinion, at the sixth position, we just need to sign someone who's disciplined tactically, and who is at least really good to an elite ball winner.
00:38:08
Speaker
and like who's serviceable on the ball but doesn't have to be amazing, then the upgrade on suchek, who you signed to also replace some of Bryce's qualities, needs to be someone who can recycle the ball. There definitely at least has to be... The only issue I have is I don't think all of our all of our targets, if we ignore like the ball winners, right, so if we take Paulina out of that bracket essentially,
00:38:29
Speaker
All of our targets in midfield are exceptional ball carriers, but none of them are exceptional ball passes, whether that be short or long. It's not Onana, it's not Scott. I don't know about Fofana, but I don't think he is anyway. Adams is a really good passer, but he's not sensational at it, and he definitely doesn't have the ball-carrying ability.
00:38:54
Speaker
What you're looking to do is rise to those three stand up qualities, right? Passing defensive ability and ball carrying. I don't think there's a set of two players that really replace that. So I think you have to pick and choose and prioritize one over the other.
00:39:07
Speaker
I think the fact that one of these players is going to end up replacing Sucek, I think Rice being so good was able to at times mask Sucek's limitations in possession. And the fact that we'll have three midfielders who have that baseline ability on the ball will kind of make up for what Rice is, what we're losing with Rice to some extent. I think Fofana, Fofana is my number one right now.
00:39:37
Speaker
He can kind of play either the six or the eight, in my opinion. That's why I like him a lot. And he, from what I've seen of him, makes a lot of those...
00:39:50
Speaker
those passes that Rice made progress like diagonal passes to the full backs and short passes through the lines and passing it back to the center backs when it's the prudent thing to do. Fofana possesses those qualities and I think that him alongside
00:40:12
Speaker
like another, you know, aggressive type player like Sucek, but with, you know, that baseline level of, of, um, of, you know, passing like, like for sake, like Kone or something like that. Like that would be the, my personal opinion, I would be looking to sign to like,
00:40:37
Speaker
athletes, because I think that us as a team, we operate, like we're at our best when we can athletically impose our will on the other team in the field. Like we've shown that with Rice and Sucek, Sucek is probably not exactly where you want to be athletically, but he's a physically imposing body. But if you can have two guys who are capable on the ball, and especially one who's like really good on the ball,
00:40:59
Speaker
And can recycle possession to the extent that you need and you keep that athletic superiority that you have with rice and soup check Then we're really in business. That's why i'm not crazy about targets like workhouse And I love alex. Scott. I think he's a really cool player and I would be very on board with that Because we could use an elite ball carrier to replace rice but anybody who's not
00:41:22
Speaker
physically imposing player I'm gonna have a few questions about just in a moist team. What I would say about Scott is I think he is a player who when you take ball carrying ability and passing ability and put it together he excels the most out of all our targets. I think he's the best offensive mix and I think he's obviously high risk but he's energetic he's young so he'll have like the stamina hopefully to last in the season
00:41:49
Speaker
And probably most importantly is we are an aging squad. Age doesn't really matter in my opinion. I think it's a bit of an overrated aspect when your fans say, Oh, look how young all the players are. We're so good. But at some point you do have to consider our average age is what, like, is it over 30? I think it might be. No, it's not one of the oldest. No, our starting 11, I think is over 30. Yeah. One of the oldest in the brand. Like, I think it's 47 year old. Yeah. But you do, you do need like
00:42:19
Speaker
In our squad right now, in our established squad, who is actually young apart from Ben Johnson and Flynn Downs and Rice? Rice was our youngest. No one is actually particularly young.
00:42:32
Speaker
And I think you do have to get a younger son. Oh, yes, Kamako. Yeah, he is young. He's 24. He's like 25. Yeah. But like, we have no like, you know, standout youngsters apart from Rice. Well, that's because Moyes and like, I came around David Moyes big time in March, April time, like I was, we were probably, I was definitely starting to come around on him most when this podcast kind of got
00:42:57
Speaker
shut down for a little bit. But as much as I love Moyes and everything he's done for us and where he goes, I don't think he necessarily has a grasp.
00:43:06
Speaker
on what a young player actually is. Not in a disrespectful way, but I remember specifically a quote from two years ago now, probably, where he was like, oh yeah, we have all these young guys. And he listed Rice, Sucek, who was 25 at the time, and someone else who was 24 or 25. And like, not saying that 25 isn't a good age, 25 is a great age, but that's like entering your prime. But really, the players are 21, 22.
00:43:32
Speaker
My only gripe with Moyes is, I mean, he's been doing with Moo Balm a better and he did it to some extent with Perkins. Um, but I feel like they're, especially in that at the start of 2122 and towards the last year stages of 2021, there were so many opportunities where, you know, we went into like the last 20 minutes of games, two goals, three goals, four goals up. I mean, never, ever, ever gave a young kid an opportunity.
00:43:58
Speaker
Like I simply, I know the kids are younger and they don't have the match fitness, but I struggled to understand why Sonny Perkins was thrown onto the pitch when 3-2 down to Leeds. But no youngster was given an opportunity when we were like 4-1 up against Leicester or 3-1 up against Leicester or 4-2 up at Newcastle or what other, there's so many things. Well sometimes, sometimes it depends who's just in the squad that day. Yeah, but no, but Okaflex, I remember the singing. Okaflex is probably the one
00:44:28
Speaker
Or in that squad all the time. Okoflux and Baptiste are probably the two who suffered from it the most. And also, no, no, no, Elise, I should say, too. But I just feel like it's really restrictive. Elise. You're such a demand for Elise. No, it's Elise. It's Elise. No, it's Elise. You get the fucking police. I just feel like he should have been on me. I don't know. I feel like...
00:44:57
Speaker
You look at it with- He should have used the lease at the end of 2122. And it's interesting that the centerbacks were hurt. Oh no, that doesn't bother me because those scrims were all type. I just feel like, what is the point in bringing on divine Mubama when 2-0 down against Brentford or 2-1 down against Brentford, but not when you're like 3-0? Well that- I just don't see it.
00:45:24
Speaker
That game, we already solidified our promotion, so it didn't really matter. Safety, but yeah. Yeah, I get the point. I just feel like there were so many opportunities.
00:45:36
Speaker
I don't think that the Brentford game is a good example at all. I understand when you talk about Perkins. I don't think it fucking matters when the players are introduced and what games they play in. I am happy that he played Perkins in that Leeds game. I'm happy he played Mubama in the Brentford game and in the Arsenal game. I'm happy that he's got the reason. But I agree with what you're saying.
00:46:00
Speaker
that there are other games, especially in Europe, where it's like 3-1 in like the 85th minute, and he's got three youngsters on the bench. Why don't any of them see game time? And it's something to watch out for because we have this goal, like, I don't want to say golden generation, but you know. But a pretty good young core who's coming through. Like we, like, it's pretty slick.
00:46:19
Speaker
solidify that there's going to be at least two or three, at least, Premier League players on that stage. We have an accomplished non-court, yeah. But then again, we say this all the time, I feel, and it never happens, but it's not part of that. It's like historical. And also, we have to hold on to some of these kids, right? I mean, I'm not saying it's Moise's fault, but you look at Ashby, you look at Perkins, you look at Elise, you look at Pierre-Echois-Olimbi, you look at Longelow,
00:46:46
Speaker
I'm not saying all of those are going to be, you know, fucking Ballon d'Or contenders in five years time, but some of them are certainly, you know, extraordinarily talented young players who, I think two of them, three of them definitely would have gotten a big breakthrough at a prem level at some point. But, you know, at some point as a young guy, you have to make that decision. You know, it's just, I've got to go somewhere. And sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't.
00:47:14
Speaker
We'll see. Cause these, I mean, they're clearly like these, like this U18 classes, like, you know, they've been established. Our U18 class two years ago, wasn't bad. They were like second old season to Sissy. They weren't bad. I mean, we just did the double. What happened to Thierry Nevers by
David Moyes' Role and Future
00:47:33
Speaker
the way? Like he just genuinely disappeared from the face of the earth. He went on loan to Bradford and he didn't make it.
00:47:40
Speaker
He died? No, he was like injured all the time. I don't know. I remember, I genuinely, this really annoys me. I have like, I have like Pez 21 on my fucking console, on my PS4. I spent years making like a custom Equa, a custom Long Gallo, a custom Ocaflex and Nevers and Odie Beko and stuff.
00:48:05
Speaker
These guys are getting serious game time against West Brom in the FA Cup. I'll let you know. Like serious ballers, Ocaflex, five goals in a season. I think Flasic, Flasic was my top scorer that season as well. Like it was, it was. Well, we'll, we'll see. Cause this is, this is a long-term issue for me. I mean, I don't think any of us actually want him to be here in like
00:48:30
Speaker
are three to five year plan. I would like him to be static if he was here in five years. Yeah, I would be fucking overjoyed because it would have meant we would have like won the fucking league. Yeah, it would mean that we're good. I don't know. He's not, he's not someone that I would want to see, you know, bring in this next day. He might, he might be in the dark in five years, but yeah.
00:48:55
Speaker
Oh, like literally, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's like, dude, he's like almost- One more, one more stoppage, Sean, whenever he might be done, to be fair.
00:49:04
Speaker
If we keep going on these European aways and we keep winning big games and he keeps having a pint afterwards, his body can't handle that. All this flying dude you think his joints are okay? I think before that goal against Fiorentina, the last time we scored a goal that like won us a point or three points or won us a game or drew us or rescued something, like beyond the 85th minute was leads away in 21-22. So we have to fucking wait for it, man.
00:49:35
Speaker
Moises is only 60. I feel like... Moises is not only 60. That's actually... You're actually right. Oh my god, he's actually 60. I thought he was even helping in 70. Do you want to talk about some of the rice replacements? Just like rattle through them real quick? About ones we're linked with? Yeah, yeah. You just want to go player by player.
00:50:04
Speaker
Yeah, just really quick. Just really quick. Everyone gets a sentence. And then everyone can have like a dream thing. You know, you say one play really well. No, we've not been. If someone says, if someone says, but like, if it's, tell me what you think about Joe Pauline.
00:50:18
Speaker
I'm not against a Paulina signing. I think the price is absurd and I don't think it's worth half of the rice money. And so, I mean, the 90 million is just, it's not going to happen. I don't blame them for putting that thing on. But I'm thinking, you know, if we get Paulina for 35 plus five and add-ons, I'll be happy. Because I think Paulina is a tad underrated, right? He's not exceptional on the ball, by any means. But I don't think you have to be. I think sometimes you just need someone who's going to fucking win you the ball. And he does that. And he's not bad on the ball either. He's got good technique.
00:50:47
Speaker
He's decent with a ball in his feet and like driving forward a bit. I think his passing could definitely see some improvement. At the end of the day, you're going to be playing next to Paquetta and like probably another decent signing. You don't need to be amazing on the ball. And I think, look at, I think it's hard to judge because look how much Rice does for us defensively, right?
00:51:08
Speaker
Like that guy leads the league in interceptions. I think he's up there in tackles and duels one and everything. You need someone. We focus on Ryze's offensive output. You need someone who's going to offer that defensive thing as well. Because I don't think I've ever seen someone who like mentally knows what's going to happen.
00:51:23
Speaker
He's like, you know the stories about LeBron anticipating plays out of timeouts? That is literally Declan Rice in the flow of a football. You know, it's not. Yes, it is. This guy, this guy knows where the ball is going. Yeah, he's better than LeBron. He's more accountable. He is better than LeBron. I agree with that. It's not saying much. Mike won't like this. But you get the, like, he just, you need someone who replaces that defensive presence. I think Paulina is stuff. So I'm not, I'm not against it. I just think,
00:51:51
Speaker
There's a point where you have to draw the line of like, you know, he's just not worth it. He's not my, you know, he's not my ideal player to do the job. He's, he isn't fitting to what my dream mode of what this mid field. Yeah, your dream mode would be in yes to biscuits, mate. Like it's just not going to happen. I mean, I wouldn't say that, but.
00:52:13
Speaker
He would be fine, but the price makes it not even worth talking about. That's literally what I was going to say. I agree with most of what Raf said in his one singular sentence.
00:52:27
Speaker
Um, but, uh, like, yeah, the thing, the thing, yeah, it's a run off sometimes, but the thing with Pauline is like the price, it's not even a talking point to me. Like it's the same way Alvarez is in a talking point. Cause he's going to be, I think he is. He's going to be in a week. It's not confirmed. It's not even closed. But Dortmund continued to move on the deal and we don't.
00:52:51
Speaker
Yeah, it probably won't happen, but I think it's more likely than only and also with Alvarez Alvarez like I have a lot of the same like it's the same thing as Paul Right Joe, what do you think of what do you think of others? I mean
00:53:07
Speaker
He's, he doesn't move me. And to be honest, like, I think we can do better than, than Alvarez. Like from the times that I've seen him play, like he just, he's, he's okay. Like he's very like, he's like a disciplined player, which is, you know. Is he good with, I don't, I don't watch much Ajax to be fair.
00:53:27
Speaker
Is he good on the ball? I think he's decent, right? He's decent. He's not going to blow minds on the ball. Yeah, but he's capable of passing the ball around a bit. He's safe, and he's probably what you were describing earlier about just a guy who's going to retain possession. That's him. I think we have to consider with Rice, too, is
00:53:54
Speaker
You know, you know, you know, that scene from Moneyball where like, who are they replacing the fucking big hitter guy? And they say, you know, what does he, his average is like 400. Can I not plot the Peter Brown quotes?
00:54:07
Speaker
You get the point, though. You're not going to replace him. You're right with what you're about to say. But using that quote unironically is so insane to me. No, it's not the quote you daft cunt. It's a fucking cultist.
Critique of Transfer Market Approach
00:54:24
Speaker
Okay, well, you're not going to use the one quote. You're going to use the scene where they talk about adding up the on-base percentage. Precisely.
00:54:32
Speaker
But you get the point, like, as long as it's probably the closest we've got to, like, Rice as an individual player, just fucking not as good. But I don't think you're going to get some. So I think you need to fill it with, like, I don't want to say role players, but people who fulfill one role of Rice's game and then do that several times. Well, that's what I was saying before and what I've been saying for weeks.
00:54:54
Speaker
Yeah, but none of the guys. So Rice has like three elite skills, you have to find someone, you have to find two players with one elite skill. Yeah, but Polini and Alvarez, none of them are good, like, apart from them. Polini and Alvarez are both elite winners of the ball. Yes, my point is, those are elite winners of the ball. But who are either unrealistic, so we're not going to get either of them. And then with all due respect, I'm not particularly comfortable
00:55:23
Speaker
with running around with like some fucking Scott Ward, Prowse, Pekkata construction defensively. Cause I go out and Zoom is, I go out and Zoom is, ACS will be gone by like week two. That's not going to leave in the field. Ward Prowse in any context is, I don't think, I think that Sideten is going to come in and just- I don't know what the fuck it is. What do you think of Ward Prowse, Joe? I think it would be a disaster. Just leave it up there. I think he's like,
00:55:52
Speaker
He's not good enough. I don't want to say he's not good enough on the ball, but he doesn't excel enough on the ball to make up for his defensive. He doesn't do anything for us. We already have enough good set-piece statements. He's not bad defensively. He's not bad offensively. He's just fucking average. Yeah, he's just a nothing player, and we're going to have to spend a lot of money for him. I think he's good at set-pieces, is true. But I mean, Bowen's really good at set-pieces. Cresswell's really good at set-pieces.
00:56:18
Speaker
Dude, you gotta remember Peter Brand said that your goal is to buy wins, not players, man. Bring me Ward Krauss for 50 million pounds. Oh my god. Shut the fuck up. He sucks, dude. Like, he is just not...
00:56:35
Speaker
worth it. A lot of these players aren't worth it, which is exactly why we're hiring a technical director. Yeah, but you do have to shell out something. The thing is- We will shell out for someone, but we will shell out for the right players. We can scout his little 14 year olds from like Sri Lanka all he wants.
00:56:51
Speaker
But I would actually, you know, you can definitely say you would like, I guess he finds, finds a good value, but like, I'm sure like, you know, his data and all that is gonna, like, you can scale that up to finding a high profile player. You absolutely can. Yeah.
00:57:11
Speaker
Like, Steiden is coming in to run our transfers alongside Moyes, I assume, which is a good thing. And Sullivan, don't forget Sullivan, as long as he's not behind bars. Who else is there? Scott. I think Scott is. I think that you're going off track, though, because they're the, quote unquote, rice replacements to play the six. And then there's the other midfielders to help
00:57:37
Speaker
What other, what other like straight up six options are there? I think we've gone through them to be honest. Fofana is the only one. Yeah, but Warcrowds, it wasn't, whatever, whatever, whatever. I don't, I mean, I guess Moussa, he can play. I don't think Moussa's a six. I think, again, I don't watch much Valencia. When I watched him at the World Cup, he wasn't a six, was he? He was like, he's been playing, he's been playing a six this international period. And this most recent international period. Have you guys been watching?
00:58:03
Speaker
And he was out of position, but he looked really good. I mean, he played against Mexico and he looked better at six than Alvarez did at six. Dude, he had Alvarez in hell. In hell. Yeah, but don't be fair, it's Mexico. Yeah, but there was a lot of people's words there. Yeah, but not now. It must be serious. They're horrible, yeah. I'm pretty sure Alvarez moves a yellow card on Alvarez blowing by. Yeah. But I think you said somebody really excites me.
00:58:32
Speaker
Like I think, I think he is someone I really, cause he won't be too expensive, right? Cause Spanish clubs are like fucked. And they're fucked and they think he sucks. And he had a bad season. So like, how long does he have on his contract? Units? He put the price on like 25 million for him. That's fuck. Oh man. Bring him in. Yeah, that's, that's perfect. And honestly, he doesn't fucking score.
00:58:58
Speaker
At that price, 25 million. I mean, okay. His contract expires in 26. So it's not like it expires soon, but they are looking to get rid of him.
00:59:11
Speaker
I think he'd be an exceptional sign because he's versatile. I'm not saying he has to play there, but he definitely has the traits to play outside on the win as well. My only thing with Nosa is I hope that if we sign Nosa, that Moise knows what he wants to do with him because the Moise can get very easily lost with him.
00:59:36
Speaker
I think Luca would be really good because I think he is the only one who possesses both. Ideally, in my world of the targets right now, which I'm not super excited about, and it's not final.
00:59:55
Speaker
I think it's some of the options are good. If you ignore fucking WordPress. Yeah, I think my like if I had to like gone to my head three like like what's your midfield of like you can just build it like with the guys we have right now in front of us. It's Musa, it's Yousafovana and it's Lucas Paquette.
01:00:17
Speaker
Yeah. I really. Musa or Scott. So I think. I mean, he's a French international that and not the end of itself. He wasn't the world. He started in the semi-final. Oh, he didn't. He did. He was quite good in that game as well.
01:00:43
Speaker
He left our good friend Eduardo Camavinga on the bench in that game. You remember that Unahi fella? Yeah, he went for peanuts as well. Yeah, 8 million. I was thinking about him the other day because I was watching the France Morocco game because I wanted to see Fafana. The only thing I've seen from Fafana is his game against PSG last season. It was exceptional.
01:01:13
Speaker
I think also, I think he's good enough. He's so good on the ball as well. I think, again, I don't want to, I don't, I don't want to act like I'm some fucking expert on Monaco's U 22 player. But from what I've seen, which is limited, of course, he looks, he's 23. You know, who is an expert on Monaco's U 23. No, I was, no, someone a little closer to the team, Mark Noble.
01:01:40
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. His good friend, Paul Mitchell, because he's a Paul Mitchell and he, he was on duty scouting Alex the sassy last season. Right. So maybe he'll actually know me. So I would, I would guess that it's Mark Fobel in there recommending uses, use of Fafana to us. Yeah. I mean, he's, I, I'd really take him on then who else is our, um, sculpt.
01:02:08
Speaker
I mean, Scott, I think is self-explanatory. I think it's a risk, of course, because of his physicality. But he's got the ball carrying traits. He's got the passing traits. The only concern is a bit like shooting, but then again, he does play for Bristol City. How would you feel about buying Moussa, Fofana and Scott and having them compete? Do we have that much money?
01:02:30
Speaker
No. We have, well, it depends on this rice thing, I guess. I think it depends on the left wig and center buck and left buck scenarios. So this is a question that I have. What would the fee have to be from Manchester United if they're offering you McTommie and Maguire?
01:02:46
Speaker
I wouldn't take McGuire, but you would take McTominay. I would take McGuire. Dude, what is wrong with you? I'm not super high on either, but I think McTominay has a role to play. I wouldn't want either. I think McTominay could play a role for us, but you would just say no to McGuire, just straight up. I'd rather the money. I'd rather the money. But they don't have the money.
01:03:16
Speaker
Well then I wouldn't want to make up that valuation. Then I'd rather he goes Arsenal if we get that money.
01:03:22
Speaker
Dude, you're crazy, man. Maguire would be great for us. No, he wouldn't. Yes, he would. We have Zuma. We have underwear. Zuma plays 22 games a season. And we're in Europe. And we have ambitions of staying in Europe. And we play a lower block. And Maguire would be more protected. And his good qualities would come further to the forefront playing for
Potential Player Swaps with Manchester United
01:03:48
Speaker
us. And he is unbelievable for England. He's still really, really good for England.
01:03:52
Speaker
He's really, really good. I don't see it. I think people are a bit too high on the idea of Maguire. I think people are too low on him. No, I think United fans for sure. He's not some League 1 talent player, but I think we act like this, what is it now, three-year spell at United just doesn't
01:04:15
Speaker
Dude, he had a great... Dude, he has had good seasons at United. He's not. I would characterize him. Yes, he has. He had one year where he was really good at United. He was never good at United. He's had an average season in the first season since then. No, he had a good second season. He started every game. They finished second.
01:04:35
Speaker
in the league. I mean, that's, well, yeah, but that wasn't an outstanding season for him by any means. It was good. I didn't say it was. That was the Bruno Ballon d'Or season. Okay. But, okay. But to finish second, you would think that your first choice center back would have a pretty alright season. I mean, he was next to like victory. He was average last season. Okay. So he was average and they finished second. Yeah. He is a top four player in a bad fit.
01:04:59
Speaker
I don't think Maguire, I don't think you guys, I think you guys are a bit too high on him. It's not even being that high on him, it's just saying that we can get a very good center back in return for Rice in a fee that we should take that. I think it's a ginormous risk. I think we'd lose out on a sizable chunk of cash, which could limit us in how we replace Rice, which I think is a more pressing issue. I think it's a big risk on a player who is aging. It doesn't really concern me, but who is aging, you have to take that into consideration.
01:05:29
Speaker
who hasn't had a particularly good last two years. We have no idea if you can go back to that Lester thing. And you also have to consider we, when we are losing rice, let's say we replace it. What did we say? Did we say Musa and Fafon? You're looking to replace them with two center mids. I'm suggesting, I'm not even saying that I would accept this. I'm saying that if United came in tomorrow and they bid 70 million in like one or two installments. We're not getting 70 plus McTominay plus McGuire.
01:05:59
Speaker
If we value him at 120 million, they probably they probably value McGuire between 30 and 40 and they probably value McTominay between 15 and 20. McTominay would be around 2025. That's insane. That is insane. No one in the Premier League values McTominay. You just said 15 to 20 and I say 20 to 25. That's not outrageous. 25 is outrageous.
01:06:30
Speaker
Yeah, it is. Any club who spends 25 million on Scott McTombay deserves to go down. Whatever, man. I'm not cool with that. No, he's like a solid decent center midfielder. I'm not even hating on him. But to spend a sizable chunk of cash on him would be crazy. I don't know. I think he provides alone. But I wouldn't accept that offer. Because I would say he provides.
01:06:57
Speaker
I would just rather, I think he provides energy. I think he provides ball carrying. I think he does provide sizable threat arriving in the box. I think he provides decent defensive contribution. But that all being said, do not Google the FB breath stats. That being said,
01:07:19
Speaker
I don't think I would rather just the cash ban the players. Well, yes, obviously you would rather just the cash. There's been no, there's been no sign that we are going to get just the cash. We have to start thinking about player plus cash deals. Yeah, but I don't think, A, the United States, it's a pointless thing. So Scott McTominay, you say he's good arriving late into the box, right? I think he is. He has 12 Premier League goals and 150 appearances.
01:07:46
Speaker
Well there, because he plays way deeper. Look at his Scotland stats over the last year or so. It's really good.
01:07:53
Speaker
He's, he's had some multiple goal games for Scotland. No, he's like, I'm not even like shitting on him. I think he's very pressure system. I think that he does provide a lot of energy. I think he's tactically sound like he's not an idiot. I'm just saying that like paying a 25 million pound fee, plus the wages that you're going to have to pay buying a player from the top six club is crazy.
01:08:18
Speaker
Yeah, I think the same goes for Maguire to be fair. Yeah, to some extent it does. I wouldn't pay 40 million pounds for Harry Maguire, at least not in Ireland. And I would want to lose 40 pounds if we got someone from United. I would want, in a player exchange, fucking nobody to be fair. It won't happen. The player I would start negotiations with, the player I would say, I would start with Wambasaka and then I'd move on to Alanga. And then I would move on to Maguire. To be fair, aren't they interested in bumpers?
01:08:48
Speaker
I think if we could get like a sizable fee plus a longer I think that would be ideal because that sorts the left-wing situation to some extent
01:09:07
Speaker
United hold Denzel Dumfries talks June 26, 2023. I didn't know that. Oh, wait, what? January, January, January, 26, 2023. I was like, yo, I was like, I was like, dude, I'm in the future right now. I don't know. I don't really see a realistic player swap situation with United. Is that all or?
01:09:36
Speaker
midfield target so we've gone through. Are we missing you? Yeah. We've gone through them all. All right. Do you want to, who's your dream sounding Joe in midfield? In the realm of like reasonable realism. Define that. Well, don't go out here and say Peji or Kevin De Bruyne. Okay. Say it in punku. Okay. Interesting. Jacque, what do you say? I'm a duo mama.
01:10:05
Speaker
Yeah, I'd say, I'd say Onana too. I mean, that's, those two are my, like, if we can get a pairing. Yeah. Oh, Nana, 55 million. I'm sorry. Just throw it there and then try to blow balls. Cause the thing is, Fofana slash Musa slash, um, Fofana and Onana is exactly what I've been talking about all day. Yeah, but Fofana slash Scott slash, and now I forgot the other feller, Scott slash Fofana slash, Jesus fucking Christ, Musa, thank you.
01:10:35
Speaker
Um, none of those are going to be particular. Those will all be prob. I don't know about for fun, but probably under or around 30, 35. Right. I think euros, not pounds, like, like 30 euros would be like, like, like 25 million pounds around. I don't know how much would get for fun. I do you reckon they've been saying 30, 35 million. Okay. I think you can, you can get like, Oh, Nana's valued at 55. They need to sell.
01:11:06
Speaker
And apart from them, apart from like the fucking, the only rumor I've seen is Chelsea and they're about to spunk like a King's ransom on Kaiseido. I can't talk about Chelsea. So I think it's, I think put a bid in man, put a bid in and see what he says. Right. I think the only other player I'd say is Tyler Adams, but then I,
Scouting and Transfer Market Dynamics
01:11:28
Speaker
you know, it's funny. We complain about lazy skeleton. We've just named three Premier League players.
01:11:33
Speaker
Well, I mean, we've been talking. I feel like the players have been highest on the whole time. There's used to be fun. But I don't even think that that's a hard scout. It's not really hard to scout some of these starts in a World Cup semi-final. I guess my out there pick would be Andre from Fuminese. He's in the Brazilian League. I've watched him a few times. I was watching the Brazilian League to get his job. There's nothing to do these days. You're knocking on 30, fully employed.
01:12:02
Speaker
Please stop watching Fliminese games. I'm not employed on the weekends and that's when they play. Dude, I don't even think it's that out there, but if I had to pick someone that I don't think the club are that aware of, I mean, I'm sure that they're aware of them because they do their job, hopefully. But, um, I don't remember his first name right now, but L'Oriente from Cessuolo, the left-winger.
01:12:31
Speaker
I really have an out there shop to be fair. At any position? Emmanuel Longelow. Alright, do you want to talk about Skamaka as well? Yeah. I don't think that there's much to say about Skamaka. He's not going to leave, nobody's going to bid.
01:12:53
Speaker
No, I wouldn't be sure. I wouldn't be sure. Who is going to bid $35 million for Gian Lucas to come back with this? Only Italian clubs interested. We said we wanted to recuperate a majority. I think if someone comes in with like $25 million... I think you could. I would if I was Roma. If I was Roma. Yeah, I would if I was Roma too, but they're not going to.
01:13:22
Speaker
I genuinely, that would really, really annoy me. Like, it really annoy me. It would take getting, like, Nketsuya back for me to, like... Oh my god. This guy and his Nketsuya obsession. Sleep at night. I would not be able to sleep. I got bullied. Like, Christmas 2021, or I think it was 2021, for wanting an Nketsuya so badly. I got bullied for it. Well, you should not have. You shouldn't have. Yeah, but I'd rather ballerkin.
01:13:51
Speaker
I mean, either one should be what we're going for. I don't think we're getting either because... We're not gonna get either. We're gonna... Do you think Antonio leaves? Yeah. I think he ends up staying. I don't know. There's such a log jam of shit players at this position. I don't think he wants to be here. Which is a real shit. He's getting...
01:14:23
Speaker
But we won't say what's happening in his personal life on this specific podcast. But he probably wants a change of scene, right? Yeah. Do you think he will get a striker through the door this summer? Just like no context, no scenario. Do you think we will get a striker through the door? If we sell one, yeah. Well, I just said no scenario. No. Well, there has to be a scenario. OK, fine. Fair enough. Fair enough. Because if we don't sell a striker, why would we sign a striker? Vibes.
01:14:51
Speaker
I don't think there's a... I think to be fair, if we go out for a striker, no matter who leaves, I think it has to be one of them, Cassio or Balagan in my opinion. No, I think that if we sell Antonio, we should just go and sign Quicores in Coventry.
01:15:12
Speaker
No, I'd rather in Ketia. I would also rather in Ketia, but you're not going to go and buy in Ketia. The only way the only way that you're getting something in my friend deal. I'm saying the only way that you're getting in Ketia from Arsenal is a swap.
01:15:27
Speaker
Yeah. And we have that opportunity. No, I'm saying I would go for that first, but I'm saying, first of all, first of all, the chorus is not going to be more expensive than Ekeptia. That's first of all. Yes, he will. Yes, he will. No, he's not. He has one year left on his contract. Jokores will be like 20 to 30. And Ekeptia will be comfortable. He will go for more than 25 million.
01:15:53
Speaker
And Guy Corus has no doubt in my mind, will probably go for around 20. He's one year left on his contract. They have no leverage. And he wants to leave and there's like five clubs interested. And the price has been rumored to be around 17 and a half to 20 million. And Katia, if you try and take Katia from Arsenal, who's established in their squad, who they just gave a long contract to, who they really like. They're gonna ask for 30 million minimum.
01:16:21
Speaker
Just because they're actively shopping doesn't mean they're gonna have to get pennies for him. I'm saying they are actively shopping. Yeah, they are. I think even if you say it's only manageable in a swap deal, I don't necessarily agree because I feel like, say we get no one in a swap deal, or even if we do get someone in a swap deal, I think part of that deal would be first refusal on some of their players, right?
01:16:41
Speaker
So we would go in there and we would say, we won first refusal on, and Ketya Balagan, Rhys Nelson, Smith Rowe, and Lukongo or something. That would all be really nice. That would be really cool. If we got Smith Rowe, it would be over the fucking moon. Like, honestly. That's the guy that he goes with. I'll switch it. I'm gonna go. Lukongo is another player who I've been really high on. Who? Lukongo. He sucks. He doesn't suck. Get out of here.
01:17:07
Speaker
He didn't have a good spell at Palace, but I don't really take stock into that. I forget he was at Palace, to be fair. He, like, was like... He fell with Five Days of Vieira, and they were just in shambles by the time that he got there. But at Arsenal, he was really good, and just because of the fact... He was not really good at Arsenal. He couldn't hack... Just because he couldn't hack it as the lone six of possession. Like, it was one of the hardest things you can do to... Like, one of the hardest jobs you can have in...
01:17:35
Speaker
The game is to play lone six on one of these top, like high possession teams. That's what he's tasked to do. And that doesn't mean that he can't play a pivot here. And I think he'd be really good. He possesses a lot of the qualities that we need. He is a really, really good passer. And I think that he is a great physical, like, you know, frame. He, we could mold him into something I. So what's the time in New York right now? It's like six, seven, seven, seven. Okay.
01:18:06
Speaker
Okay. Go on. Sorry. That, that's all I had to say is that, that like, I can, we can project him into being a really good player. Uh, and just because it didn't work out at Arsenal, doesn't mean it's not going to work out here. I don't know. We'll see. We'll see. And he's had good games at Arsenal. Yeah.
01:18:29
Speaker
I'm so disappointed with the Reece Nelson. He was like really annoyed. I can't believe he fell for it. Dude, they all fall for it. Why do they fall for this? What is Arteta putting in their drinks, bro? No, he definitely puts them in like a chamber downstairs or something with Gunnar Soares.
01:18:53
Speaker
Yeah, do you guys know the Gunnar Soares channel? Yeah, Gunnar Soares channel. Yeah, it just doesn't make sense to me. I would have loved recently. And to be fair, I'm sure it's a great project. And I think to some extent, those players in that dressing room will believe they're like next up for some sort of trophy and they'll want to be part of it. But I just think this guy, I mean, to be fair, I understand why he doesn't want to come to us necessarily, because we currently have, you know, like three options at a relatively similar level to him on that side.
Striker Acquisition and Team Strategy
01:19:23
Speaker
He didn't even give the market a chance though. I think it's stupid to start a really long term deal. Yeah, but they'll get a fee for him. I mean, and Katie is going as of right now, because at this point it's him, have some basis. Are there any strikers outside of the UK? You guys would be like interested in outside of the yellow. I think there's a, there's a, there's a other fellow from Sasuola who looks really good.
01:19:53
Speaker
I can't remember his name, but they replaced him with someone who was really, really good. I am not aware. Otherwise, I just can't think.
01:20:03
Speaker
To be fair, I haven't watched anywhere near as much football this year as I have the last two seasons, just because, you know, stuff's picked up. I just don't think that we should be prioritizing the striker. There's no reason. There's no reason. If someone is out of the door the moment they've like exited the building, we are on the facts. Yeah. But even then we still have three strikers. I mean, maybe none of them are good. Who knows?
01:20:33
Speaker
I mean, we have Skamaka, Ings and Obama at that point. Who do you want? Who do you think and who do you want to start next season? Go into the season as like the main man. Skamaka. It would be nice if Skamaka could show enough to the coaching staff that they're willing to trust him as the striker on the metric one. I think he'll get the... I think he's gonna get the chance, yeah.
01:20:57
Speaker
Barring no transfer. If we don't buy a striker, I think he's going to have the first chance. I think he's going to be the guy that they are looking at to start next season. Antonio, I think Antonio's going to leave. I really do think he's going to leave. I think it might be later into the summer, but it just doesn't strike me. I wouldn't be surprised if it goes back to Southampton, to be fair. I wouldn't be surprised if he plays an MLS. No.
01:21:28
Speaker
I mean, he's 33. Yeah, he has. He has like a lot of MLS interest. I think it's done. There's a lot of interest in him in general. I think Antonio would stay in the UK. But what do I know, man? And then I suppose, I mean, I don't think he would love to go fucking play in Miami and get fed through ball after through ball from Messi. We need to take right.
01:21:56
Speaker
and terminate Danny Ings' contract, and that's it. I would keep Danny Ings. I would keep Danny Ings. Because you're not getting anything good for him. And I think, you know, we slandered him. I'm not getting anything good from him. Because he's been a bit fucking garbage. But the guy, he is a goal scorer at the end of the day, and I think that's worth having. And he's experienced. He can help mentor young kids like Obama coming through. Is he a goal scorer?
01:22:18
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, throughout his career, he's been like a gold scorer. He's not like the West Ham shirt. I mean, he was really good against Forrest. He was really good goal against Kent. That was some finish. That was a really nice finish. I thought it was upside for like ages. No, like that is the thing with him is that he'll score a few goals and like I'm to be fair and he's the thing that drives me craziest about things is the wage.
01:22:46
Speaker
Oh, no, the thing that drives me insane. To be fair, I was the biggest thing skeptic when we signed him initially. He was playing better towards the end of the season. I'll give him that. Yeah. But what I would say is over time, I think he's convinced me to some extent. Now, part of that is simply that he like looks cold in that kit with like the wrist tape and everything. I think that we agree. But I feel like
01:23:10
Speaker
I feel like he's shown a bit of promise towards it, and I'm always like fucking a grandfather, so a bit of promise isn't ideal. But he's been a bit better towards the end. I would keep him around as a guy who can help mentor the young kids or... Yeah, we're stuck with him at this point. I wish we weren't, but we are. So we'll just have to make the best of it.
01:23:34
Speaker
Anyways though, it's probably a good place to end it. Good return to the mics for everybody involved and a debut on the mic for this man, Rafael. We'll see you guys next week. It's good to be back.
01:24:27
Speaker
Well, it's so cool cause you're holding on to me So I'm talking to my shutters, I'm talking to my team I hit you in the morning right now with the beast It's handy down the yard and I break it down to sleep It's handy down the yard and I break it down to peace
01:24:42
Speaker
And I need fire, you gonna ride You better slide, hop in the whip, better step on my side Cause this highway vibes your wave, wash my wave tie Don't trip, now you might slip, slide Cause I drip sauce and I drip fly, now I lean back without wind I need fire, I go the way to infinity Folk on my team to fuck up my vicinity This shit goin' crazy, bumpin' our shit, for nice Miami Down the highway, and I'm just my Jamie's When I'm in the street, does it come in duty? My nigga named Rico, you strapped with the two, leave me blasting my shots If you acting up fully, you striving for perfection
01:25:06
Speaker
You know you perfectly imperfect nigga You weren't the nigga I kickflip and I flip shit I'm a western nigga, you flip shit And I will smit them western niggas I'm a french prince, don't check your niggas I breathe deep, I'm testing niggas Go check your mate, it's night time You were both today, I might take your queen But that was yesterday And I offer you points, I'll be the isolate Cause I'm the realest king to ever play And I'm a black king, worried up to my black skin And I run shit cause I'm African people Gotta tell me I am the man