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The Demonic Rituals of Danielle Harkins & the Villisca Axe Murders
11 Plays4 years ago
On this week's episode, Lauren tells the horrific case of Danielle Harkins. She was a literary teacher in Florida who convinced her students to participate in demonic rituals. Felicia discusses the Villisca axe murders, one of the most brutal and unsolved crimes in American history.
If you have requests for future episodes or just want to hang out follow us on Instagram @sinistersisterspodcast
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Transcript
Introduction and October Recommendations
00:00:13
Speaker
Welcome to the Sinister Sisters podcast. I'm Lauren. I'm Felicia. We're best friends. And we like spooky stuff. Yes, we do. And we are going to jump right in with some spooky October recommendations.
Midnight Mass Review
00:00:28
Speaker
I can go first because I finally finished Midnight Mass, which was so good. So happy for you. So it picked up because you were saying- It picked up. Yeah. Yes. Okay. I think it was maybe my favorite Mike Flanagan show. A lot of people are saying that. Yeah. I think it was. Even though it did start off slow for me, my biggest critique was that I thought it was a little monologue heavy. It's very, there's a lot of text.
00:00:56
Speaker
a lot of texts and a lot of like, I'm one person and I'm just gonna talk about like this thing for a long time. But what I thought was so funny was that like, I enjoyed it when it was the priest. That's who I'm looking up. What's his, what's that actor's name? Do you know? Hamish, right? What's his last name? Yes. Yes, Hamish Linklater. Yeah. Right? Yeah. That's him. Is that how you say it? I think so.
00:01:22
Speaker
Yeah, no, he is so good. I loved his. Yeah, I could hear him talk all day. I mean, he plays a great preacher. It's like, right. He has to do those long monologues and keep people really engaged. And it makes sense that like all of a sudden everyone was going to church and like really into it and all of that. But his wife, Kate Siegel, just doesn't do it for me. She did. This is her worst role in his films. Yeah. I know. I totally agree.
00:01:50
Speaker
I might review this. I haven't decided yet because I'm tired. But yeah, that's my biggest critique of the whole show is this is either not a good role for her or something went wrong. I don't know. She's boring. I hate to say it and I'm not going to do any spoilers. She does a big monologue at the end that almost ruined the whole thing for me.
00:02:13
Speaker
I felt nothing. I felt empty. That's how I felt. That's how I felt. She's such an important character and I just was not
00:02:24
Speaker
especially because the actors she was up against in this show are so good. So good. And typically she is too, but it just was not there. Something was off, I don't know. And even she was smiling when she was doing the last monologue and it was chilly to me. I was like, I don't believe that you're feeling anything or connecting thoughts. It was like she was just saying words. Yeah.
00:02:49
Speaker
I don't know. That's funny. I had the same feeling. Yeah. I mean, I really like her in a lot of other things, but I did kind of wish it was the girl who plays Nell. What's her name? I know. From you also. Victoria. Yes, from you. From something. Yeah. Because she's so warm and she feels like somebody that would give this big
00:03:12
Speaker
hippie kind of monologue. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. No, she would have. I mean, she would have been perfect. It's funny you're saying all this and I'm like, these are all the exact same thoughts I had while watching like that final episode. I was like, yeah.
Religious Themes in Midnight Mass
00:03:26
Speaker
And then I really thought the the concept or like the story was like my favorite by far of his shows because it's so interesting.
00:03:35
Speaker
It was such a cool idea. I mean, obviously we're trying not to spoil things even though we're talking in depth about it. But just this kind of like idea of like how you can interpret text and it's like the different ways to interpret the Bible.
00:03:50
Speaker
was just so fascinating. And it's definitely something that gets me riled up like growing up Catholic and also having a lot of very religious friends and knowing and also like my mom is very religious and I can see how believing in that and having faith is like can be make someone a great person and like can be very meaningful and can bring them like a lot of comfort. And of course, like, you know, make them feel
00:04:20
Speaker
better in their lives. And then also to have the flip side of like, I've seen those crazy church ladies who like get tower hungry and get like the text says this and the Bible says this and you can't be this way and whatever. And it's like, I don't even know. I mean, ultimately that I don't want to ruin it again. There's one scene where the priest is like, it's God's house, all are welcome kind of thing. And I was like, yes. Yes. Yeah. And it's, they really do do such a great spectrum of
00:04:47
Speaker
what religion does to certain people and how it doesn't necessarily make you a good person to be very religious. You can still be a bad person. So, man, I mean, maybe I should distribute now because now I want to talk about all these things more. That's a great show.
00:05:04
Speaker
Great show. Great show. Highly recommend.
Disney's Underwraps Remake
00:05:06
Speaker
And then my last two are quick and they're fun, but I watched Underwraps, the new Disney channel. It's like a remake of the old Disney channel made for a TV movie about a mummy. And it's great. And our friend Mel Brooks is in it, which is even more fun. Yeah, so exciting.
00:05:26
Speaker
and she's great she's like a like a haunted house enthusiast so you'll love that part like she's there like so cool horror guru i have to watch it i'm so excited and is that like kind of the are they doing like a series of these kind of remakes or is this just kind of like the one i don't know honestly i mean we know that hocus pocus but i think hocus pocus is a a sequel right yeah i think it is i'm pretty sure yeah so i have to watch that that's so exciting
00:05:54
Speaker
Yeah, I'm not, I'm not sure if others are coming, but it was great. And it was fun because it felt, it just, we watched it with my boyfriend, seven year old, and that felt perfect. Like she was dying, laughing. She was like totally engaged. That's amazing. It was really cute. That's so amazing. It does. It's really interesting because I think it's still, there's something about those like nineties made for, I don't know, like entry, entry into horror kind of movies that feels still very dark. This one doesn't have that like,
00:06:22
Speaker
hocus pocus like dark undertone or like lab or even halloween town like calabar scary like it's much more like family friendly just like silly fun but still but still i really enjoyed it and yeah it was fun to watch i mean i'm just i'll be so excited just to watch mel so that's it's all worth it to me for that yes definitely
00:06:45
Speaker
Cool, is that your last one?
Muppets Haunted Mansion Review
00:06:46
Speaker
That was my last one. Oh no, I did have another one, sorry. We also watched the Muppets Haunted Mansion special on Disney+.
00:06:54
Speaker
which was, again, very fun. But that one was interesting because it actually really scared her, which I did not understand. But I feel like it's that like, I don't know if you had anything because Labyrinth was kind of this for me, too, where when you're younger, puppets, I think, can be kind of jarring. And Candy Valley. We talked about this in a really old episode. But yes, they can't be. Yeah, jarring is a great word.
00:07:20
Speaker
Yes, and scarier, I think, than CGI. She's so funny because she's watched the Tobey Maguire Spider-Man, where I think the Green Goblin is the scariest thing of all time. Defoe, William Defoe is like, if he's in any movie, I'm scared.
00:07:36
Speaker
But she's seen a lot of things that do not scare her. For some reason, Muppets on a mansion really got under her skin. And I think the only thing I can say is that it's the puppets. Like, I think that's exactly what we were talking about. That's so wild. So maybe a warning. If you have kids, it might scare them. The Muppets will scare them.
00:07:54
Speaker
Let me think. I don't even know what I watched. I did watch There's Someone Inside Your House.
Nostalgia in Modern Horror Films
00:08:00
Speaker
That's the new Netflix horror movie. Oh, it's funny. Some people have definitely have enjoyed it. And I did enjoy it. It has so much potential. It's really a throwback to 90s and early 2000s slashers like they even like make references to some of them. It's
00:08:17
Speaker
got a lot of great stuff in it. But for me, I just didn't connect to any of the characters, particularly the main girl. And I said this in my review, but I was like, at the end of the movie, I felt like I didn't even like know her. I don't know how to explain it exactly. But something with like the acting, the directing and how it was edited, I was just like, like, it was fun. The kills are fun. Like, it's definitely a fun movie. It's worth I mean, it's worth checking out for sure.
00:08:45
Speaker
the open, especially like the opening like 10 minutes is like really, really exciting and fun. But there's just something that's not there for me with the chemistry between the characters, like the teens. And I just felt like I didn't really get to know any of them well enough to care about them.
00:09:01
Speaker
Yeah, but you're saying something because we can really identify with final girls. Or I mean, at least I always feel like I'm like all in for a girl main character. I know. And that's what and that's what really kind of irked me about it. That was I was just like, I feel like there's something missing from from this character. Like I have the literal story of her. But like, and once again, it's so hard to know sometimes, like if it's in the acting or if it's in the
00:09:28
Speaker
I don't know. Like I never want to blame the actor. I don't know. That's just like my I'm always like, it's not the actor's fault. But sometimes it could be. But I just yeah, I just felt like I didn't really get to know her in the ways that I like wanted to.
00:09:40
Speaker
Yeah. But yeah, so I watched that though.
Dexter and Upcoming Reboot
00:09:43
Speaker
I am on season six of Dexter. I'm almost done with season six. And then I have two more. And then I think the reboot comes out in November. So I'll be ready for that. My gosh, maybe you should do that on your channel. Maybe. I actually probably will, honestly, because I'm very excited about it. Falling in love with Michael C. Hall every day. It's going great. He's just so good. I know. He's so good. He's so good.
00:10:07
Speaker
And that's, I don't really know what else. I haven't really been watching a ton of stuff.
Guest Appearance on AJ Diddy's Podcast
00:10:13
Speaker
I was going to give our last little plug is that Felicia and I actually recorded a podcast with our friend AJ Diddy, which was so fun. And I should have looked at what date it's going to come out. We will post all over our social media when it does, but their podcast is called the worst of all possible worlds.
00:10:32
Speaker
And we watched a bad horror movie called Hangman's Curse. So not recommending the movie maybe, or if you like watching bad movies for fun, it's a good one for that. But you can also hear Felicia and I give some of our thoughts and obviously everybody on this podcast.
00:10:51
Speaker
video that talks about a lot of different elements that come up in this movie, particularly the fact that it's a written by a Christian young adult fiction writer, and how those Christian themes like come into this movie. It's very interesting.
00:11:08
Speaker
So, yeah, definitely check that out when it comes out. We'll post about it. But we had a great time on there. It was it was. Yes. And if you have ever wanted us to be more thorough, this is a good podcast for you. They really go in like beat for beat about the movie. We kind of went scene by scene with them. It was much more thorough than probably what you're about to hear today. I mean, there were a couple of times that I think Felicia and I were like, wow, that is some
00:11:36
Speaker
research. I was like, wow, I haven't done that much research in my whole life. Also so funny, because we're used to like a good 30 45 minute, you know, quick little episode. And this is a good one if you like want to spend more time with people. Yeah, no, it was really it was really fun. I was like, wow, this is like, yeah, it was it was very cool.
00:11:58
Speaker
And they're, they're freaking hilarious. I should say they're all writers, right? Or at least they're, yes, they're all just, yeah, all three of them are just super smart and super funny. And I'm just like, yes. So, and they asked about other episodes too. Yeah, really truly. But cool. Shall we dive in?
00:12:19
Speaker
Yes, after all that rambling, I'm going to start this week.
Danielle Harkins' Controversial Case
00:12:22
Speaker
So I'm covering a suspicious teacher on student abuse case. Ew! I know. But it's still very sinister, sisters, because basically it is this woman named Danielle Harkins who was arrested for forcing students to participate in demonic rituals. Wow. Oh my god, I'm so excited.
00:12:49
Speaker
This could be your future. No, I'm just kidding. No. No. Yeah. No, no, no. So when she was arrested was June 12th, 2012. She was 35 years old, living in Florida. And she was an English teacher of a group of Florida teens at the Leoman and Asian neighborhood family center. So it seems like mostly they teach Asian students English was kind of the, you know,
00:13:18
Speaker
Oh, whatever. High level, generalized thing that I looked into. I'm sure they have more classes. Yeah. Okay. I got it. Like a private institution for this.
00:13:28
Speaker
And she had been working there for four and a half years, so she wasn't new. And on June 9th, 2012, she told seven of her former teenage students, which is also weird to me. None of them were her current students. They were alumni. So she convinced them that they had demons inside of them. And she believed that the only way to free themselves of these demons was to cut open their skin. And then you had to cauterize the wound.
00:13:58
Speaker
to keep the demons from coming back in. Whoa. Yes. That's not what I expected. That's horrifying.
00:14:07
Speaker
It's really creepy. It's also odd because I'm not sure what she told them ahead of time to get them there, but she definitely invited them to this location, which is near the St. Petersburg Pier in Florida. So she had like started a small fire when they arrived and she told them to meet her there at dusk. So when they came, they began like doing some chanting and dancing around the fire, which probably is more of like what I kind of imagined when I saw this case.
00:14:37
Speaker
I kind of assumed it would be like more. I love to dance around a fire. It's one of my great hobbies. We would do that, you know, as teens. I'd be like, hell yeah. Right. So then again, I'm like, I'm not sure what she laid out for them, but she then instructed them to cut each other and she would use a lighter to burn their wounds. So during the ritual, she also, she was like attempting to use the lighter to cauterize one of the students' wounds.
00:15:08
Speaker
The wind blew out the flame, so she couldn't properly do it. So she then decided to pour perfume on him, which obviously acted as an accelerant. And so that created this huge flame. And so he actually ended up the worse off and had second degree burns on his hand, which is really sad. I'm sorry, I should have warned you. This is very dark. I guess we kind of knew. No, I am here for it. Good morning.
00:15:36
Speaker
right off the bat. We're just jumping in. So another student was slashed in the throat from a jagged piece of a broken bottle and she used a burning key to cauterize this wound. So the weirdest part of this story is that after the ritual, none of the students told their parents, called or called the cops.
00:15:59
Speaker
zero. So somehow they were just weirdly loyal to her. And even to this day, like they never gave information to the police. None of the students spoke in the trial. Nobody wanted to press charges. They were all silent about the entire thing. That is weird.
00:16:22
Speaker
It's very weird to me. So I'm assuming and people kind of in general assume there had to be like, you know, some kind of like grooming and getting these students to, you know, care about her for them to be so loyal to her even after all of this craziness. So the way that the police found out was that one of the students told one of their friends about the ritual and it was in a text. So like they told them about it and that friend immediately told their parents and then they called the police.
00:16:50
Speaker
So it does kind of feel like one of those things that if they, like if that person hadn't found out or like if they hadn't told their friend, she seemingly would have gotten away with it. Like it's not like somebody found the site of the ritual or like, you know, any of that. Well, what makes me so curious is I'm like, did she get away with this before? Like had she done this before? Like if that's the only, you know, I mean, that's just wild.
00:17:16
Speaker
It's just freaky. And so obviously, you know, everyone is wondering why she did this. But seemingly before that night, like she was generally thought of to be a normal person. Carolyn Chance, who is the administrator at the school that she taught, described her as a very good teacher. I mean, as you know, like she was there for four and a half years. So people knew her. People knew her.
00:17:39
Speaker
Carolyn said she was very intelligent, she was a skilled teacher, and said that she had recently started to explore religion, but nobody thought it had anything to do with demons or anything scary like that. They just thought it was like a new, you know, she was getting into religion.
00:17:56
Speaker
And so there's not really a confirmed reason for why this happened out or like, you know, why she did this out of the blue. She had recently gotten divorced, which is kind of interesting. She had two kids with him, with this man. I think they were like three and four at the time, so they were still pretty little. Are they okay?
00:18:15
Speaker
I'm assuming they weren't involved, or we don't know. We don't know. They might've just been home with dad. I don't know. Yeah. Oh, man. But her and her husband, I should say, didn't have a perfectly healthy marriage. Prior to the divorce, had taken him to court for a domestic abuse case that was eventually dismissed, which is also kind of weird. I'm like, I don't know. Domestic abuse is really scary, and I don't wish it on anyone. But I'm always like, what actually happened?
00:18:44
Speaker
Yeah. Oh my God, it's so scary. Especially when she's seemingly so not well, but it's like did the domestic abuse she was experiencing lead her to? Maybe. Lose her mind? Maybe. So she did have a neighbor whose name is Lisa Cope who did say, this is another thing that I always feel like in local news stories is so weird where it's like her neighbor says she knew she was talking about demons and you're like, did you just want your five minutes of fame neighbor? Yeah, maybe.
00:19:11
Speaker
I don't know. I saw two. I was there too. Yeah, like all these crazy, I don't know. I feel like older women in neighborhoods sometimes feel like they just want attention. Not saying that about Lisa Cope. Sorry, Lisa Cope. But she did come forward and say that Lisa had come by her house and told her that she came crying and said she needed a friend, but then also told Lisa that she didn't have any demons in her.
00:19:38
Speaker
So ultimately, in this court case, she was arrested on one count of child abuse and one count of aggravated battery. So she was put on leave from her teaching position, obviously, and she was held on a fifty five thousand dollar bail. But when she was arrested, obviously, like the police, I think, thought that more students would come forward and speak against her or give them more information. But because none of the children that were like part of that ritual testified
00:20:08
Speaker
they never really found out more than what was in that text. So because none of the students really, I mean, not because they didn't cooperate, but just because there wasn't any more information. She only served six months total for child abuse. Six months is nothing. Six months, nothing. And she paid, she did pay thousands of dollars in court and bond fees, but she was released in 2014 and she basically just disappeared.
00:20:38
Speaker
no one knows where she went, what happened to her, what job she's working now. No one knows. So it's a really freaky story to me. And obviously it's like even weirder that none of the students spoke out. Yeah. Yes. And like, so this is a question I have. So these are kids that were learning English for the first time, right? Yeah, that, that unsettles me too, where it's like,
00:21:03
Speaker
These kids were very vulnerable in a place, a new place. They don't know the language. They're learning the language. And this person just totally takes advantage of them. That's so scary. It's very scary. And to be honest, I don't know how.
00:21:16
Speaker
I don't know exactly like how much they knew English or like how long they had been in America or like how any of that I didn't do a ton of research into, but I do know that it was all Asian students that were there that night and she had taught them all English. So it's like, you know, to some extent, all of that is true. And so this was, you said like she was getting into religion. So this was like, okay.
00:21:42
Speaker
So it's like, you know, if she had been abused in her house by her husband, they eventually got a divorce and she was like seeking comfort or, you know, something in religion. I don't know.
00:21:56
Speaker
Yeah, so it seems like that's the case. But it's it's a really creepy case. And I, I guess, always like teacher-student relationships are so complicated. And especially in something like this, where someone is like teaching you this, she's also I feel like teaching you about demons is you probably are like more vulnerable to to hear it and be convinced. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, the the power dynamic between teachers and students like is something that is
00:22:24
Speaker
And it's with a lot of positions of power like that. Like, you know, we talk about like priests and policemen and all these things where it's like that can be very, that can be manipulated very easily. And it's very scary. Definitely. But that is the story of Danielle Harkins, this creepy demonic ritual teacher.
00:22:43
Speaker
That's wild. I've never heard of that. Dang it, Florida. Always up to something. I know. I laughed. I laughed, surely, when I saw it was Florida. I shouldn't have laughed, but I was like, come on, man. That's always Florida. That's always Florida.
00:23:01
Speaker
Since we don't have official ads for the podcast yet, we'll do one for ourselves. We would love if you could subscribe to us and leave a review. Also, if you want some pics to go along with the episodes, follow us on Instagram at sinister sisters podcast. And now on to the next story.
Villisca Axe Murders
00:23:18
Speaker
Okay, so today I'm talking about a murder house. Yes, this is a very like dark episode. Yours was very dark and mine is gonna be also quite dark and quite sad, but it's got some interesting stuff about it. Just keep smiling through it. Just keep smiling through the murder, it's gonna be fine. So today I'm talking about the Veliska Axe Murder House.
00:23:48
Speaker
which is in Iowa, in Ballisco, Iowa. It was the house of Josiah B. and Sarah Moore, and it was the site of a brutal murder of eight people in 1912, which included, and this is where it gets very sad, six children. Oh, so it was all one family?
00:24:13
Speaker
Yes, and then with two additional children that were really in the wrong place at the wrong time. It's very... Oh my gosh, like having a sleepover? Having a sleepover. It's terrible. Okay. So Josiah... Josiah... Is that how you say that? Josiah? Okay. I'm like saying it and I'm like, it feels wrong in my mouth.
00:24:38
Speaker
I think that's right. Okay, so Josiah was like a pretty prominent businessman. And in this area of Iowa, they'd actually kind of been on the up and up, like more people have been moving there, more businesses have been opening on Iowa. Yeah, I mean, they're doing great. So Josiah and Sarah, they move into this house that was built into
00:24:58
Speaker
late 1800s. And it's really small. It's literally 1000 square feet. There's a master bedroom, I think two other small bedrooms, and then just like a kitchen living area. I'll post some pictures of it. But I mean, the creepiest thing about this whole thing is that it's really stood still in time in a way that is very spooky, but we'll get to that.
00:25:23
Speaker
So on June 9th, 1912, the date before the murder took place,
00:25:29
Speaker
Josiah and Sarah Moore took their four children to this thing called the Children's Day Service at their church, which is just a few blocks from their house. It was like an annual event. And they also took the neighbor children, Lena and Ina, who wanted to go along with this family, hang out with their friends, and then they had decided that they would do a sleepover after the event. I know, it just gets worse and worse.
00:25:57
Speaker
So at around 9 30 p.m. they left the Children's Day service. And by the way, this was kind of an end of the year Sunday school program. So it was really for the kids. They were all having a great time. And they headed home and that's the last people I'd heard from them. So they went home. I mean, I don't know how accurate this is. They had cookies and milk. It's not a website. I'm sorry. And went to bed.
00:26:27
Speaker
So sometime after midnight, someone came into their house and this is just terrible. So I'm going to skip what happened in a way and just say how they were found. Okay. So basically at seven 30 the next morning, their neighbor came around the house and heard silence, which was very strange for this house because the kids were always running around. They had animals. The chickens were still in their coop. They hadn't been let out that morning.
00:26:56
Speaker
And it was just a very strange eerie scene. So she called Josiah's brother and was like, hey, what's going on? Are they home? Like, I don't hear anything going on in there. And he's like, they should be home. So the brother comes over. They find the spare key. He goes to the house, and he walks into the first bedroom. And he sees something very strange. He sees two figures covered in white sheets.
00:27:25
Speaker
and he can see blood. So he immediately runs out of the house and it's like, call someone, call someone, like something's happened here, something's happened here. And so from there, I think they called the sheriff and then they called a doctor to the house and the brother just kind of refused to go back in. But the doctor goes in and he comes out and he said, there's been a murder in every bedroom at the house.
00:27:55
Speaker
And in each bedroom, there were the bodies laying in the bed. They were all covered in sheets. And this is the saddest part to me. So they found the murder weapon still in the house. It was an axe that had been partially cleaned. It was just leaning up against a wall like so casually, which is just like very disturbing. And so odd that the person left it. I know. It's like, yeah.
00:28:21
Speaker
And it gets, it gets worse. But so he left it and they said that each body could not even be recognized because they had been bludgeoned so badly to the face. So that's, I mean, it's just horrifying, but that's obviously including all the children. I know. And then the other strange thing that they found in the house
00:28:44
Speaker
is on the kitchen table there was like unfinished food which it's like they're not sure if it was from the family or from the murderer in a bowl of bloody water which i know which to me i'm like was that him trying to like clean the axe off like what
00:29:02
Speaker
But the food thing freaks me out, because I've heard this before of people, after they commit a murder, kind of like hanging out for a while in the person's house. Yes, which is always just so epic. It makes me sick. Yeah. It's like they'll kill someone and have a bowl of their cereal. It's just like, what? It's just very upsetting. So there wasn't any sign of a forced entry, but they did see that the murderer had searched through a lot of the dresser drawers.
00:29:30
Speaker
like things were definitely moved around. So it seemed like it wasn't a robbery or something because it seemed so personal. The brutality of the murders seemed so personal. Definitely. Yeah. So basically the only suspect, and this is what's so strange to me, the only suspect they had was this Reverend.
00:29:57
Speaker
So we're really talking a lot about religion today. Oh man. I know. So the morning after the murders, this Reverend named Lynn George, Jacqueline Kelly was leaving town on a westbound number five train and apparently told a few travelers that there were eight dead souls back in Villisca, Iowa.
00:30:24
Speaker
He actually did it. Yes. And he said they had been butchered in their beds, and he apparently had said this before the bodies had been discovered. So it's like, OK, clearly this is the guy. And a reference. I mean, obviously, we just said that there are a lot of religious people that are bad people, but I'm surprised that in whatever that was, 1912. Oh, yeah. It's not good. It's not good.
00:30:52
Speaker
So Kelly had arrived in Villisca for the first time that Sunday morning of the murders. It says he had attended a Sunday school performance. I'm not clear if this is the same church. So I think maybe it's possible that he had just followed them home afterwards perhaps, but we don't really know. And authorities
00:31:14
Speaker
basically found him a few weeks later. Obviously things take a little bit more time since the early 1900s. And he was the son of, son and grandson of English ministers. So this had like, he was like in this family business, if you will. But he had suffered a mental breakdown as an adolescent. So I guess he had, he had immigrated to America in 1904.
00:31:43
Speaker
and from England, and him and his wife had worked at a lot of different really small churches across North Dakota, Minnesota, Kansas, Iowa, so he kind of moved around as a minister.
00:31:58
Speaker
We don't know exactly what his mental breakdown entailed, but we do know that he had been convicted at one point for sending obscene material through the mail, which is not good. We don't know what that material was, but it was not good. And he, in addition, had also spent some period of time in a mental hospital.
00:32:23
Speaker
So what this sort of- Let's make them irreverent. Yeah. So what this is sort of making me think of is just like the lack of communication between areas at this time where it's like someone can be convicted of a crime, spend time in a mental institution, but then just keep moving around from church to church because no one's communicating with each other and you can't Google someone. Right. There's your background checks. You can't like do-
00:32:51
Speaker
Yeah, so it's kind of like references. Right. So it's like kind of like who knows what else he had done. Like this is just the stuff that we know about. So, so yeah, he was awaiting trial and he signed a confession that said that God had whispered to him to suffer the children to come unto me.
00:33:15
Speaker
No. So he says that, but then a month after signing that, he recanted his confession at trial. The jury deadlocked 11 to 1.
00:33:33
Speaker
Which whoever that one person was should be ashamed of themselves. I know, right? I know. But then- I mean, I'm assuming. Yeah. Maybe the 11 should be ashamed of themselves. Yeah, I think it's the one. I think it's the one. But he was acquitted. So he did not go to jail for these murders. And then no one else has ever been tried for the murders.
00:33:57
Speaker
So the crime is one of the most horrifying unsolved mass murders in American history. Wow. That includes six children. That is so scary. And that's so scary. I mean, also that he was telling people on the train. I know. It's like, OK, well, he did it. Like, why can't those train people come speak? I don't know. I don't know. That also always pisses me off. It's the time. It must be the time. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. I mean, honestly, who even? Yeah.
00:34:27
Speaker
I'm impressed they found him, like tracked him down. Me too. Me too. So the part about this that drew me to this case is that of course this house is very much allegedly haunted. Of course it is. If it wasn't, I would be shocked.
00:34:46
Speaker
But it's gone through a few owners over the years, but now it is actually not like a hotel, but you can stay there. So for $450 a night, you can show up there. The owner, this woman, will just hand you the keys. You have to bring your own sleeping bag because you're not supposed to sleep in the beds. And she says, good luck. And you can go in there with a group of up to six people and spend the night.
00:35:17
Speaker
It's so scary. It's so scary. And I'm like, would I do it? I don't know. Maybe I can't decide. I actually think that might be too far for me.
00:35:26
Speaker
I don't know. Too far. I'm not sure if I want to be in a place where that much bad energy is existing. Right. Even if I, I don't know, could talk. I'm also like, what would you even do for that night? Just sit there and be scared? Scared? Maybe. Can I solve the murder? Solve the murder.
00:35:48
Speaker
So yeah, and that's why a lot of, so obviously this is a hub for a lot of paranormal investigators. And actually the person, one of the people that bought it didn't realize that it was such a hub for paranormal investigators. Like she knew that this horrible thing had happened there. But until she bought the house and started getting all these phone calls being like, can I come? Can I come? Can I come? And so she was like, okay, I guess this is what we're doing now. And so you can take tours for $10. And a lot of the people that come to investigate the house,
00:36:15
Speaker
say that they're trying to figure out who committed the murders just to put the souls at rest, you know, which I totally understand. And some people also, and this is sad, but they bring toys and they leave toys in the house for the kids to play with, which is like so sad. But yeah, and I do, I forgot that I didn't actually say all the children's names, so I'm just going to say that.
00:36:38
Speaker
That night, they lost the lives of Josiah and Sarah Moore, their four children, Herman, Katherine, Paul, and Boyd, and then their neighbors, Lena and Ina, still injured. I feel so bad for all of them, but those neighbor parents, I know. I know. It's like they couldn't have known. They couldn't have known. And so that's the other thing that I... So earlier, when I talked about the murders feeling so personal,
00:37:07
Speaker
It's so fascinating that the person that probably did it didn't actually know them. They were just chosen randomly. And that is just horrifying. It is so horrifying. But also there was a moment where I was like, I wonder if it was like the dad and then he killed himself, but not with an axe really. I don't think you'd do that. No. And like the fact, I don't want to say the confidence, but something like that or the
00:37:35
Speaker
the validation that the person that did this, if it was the Reverend or whoever that goes in, does this horrible thing and just leaves the weapon there because they think it doesn't matter. They're not even trying to hide. And also the scariest thing about it also being this many people too is like, you also know that they had to be, I mean, this is what we always talk about with like Emmettieville and like all the other ones where it's like, they also didn't wake up probably. Yeah. Well, I guess because it's an axe that's a little bit more
00:38:05
Speaker
Believable, but yeah, it's it's hard to know and it's kind of like I don't really want to imagine But yeah, I know what you mean
00:38:14
Speaker
It's just scary, freaky. And that is the horrifying story of this murder house. But I will also say that I forgot to mention, of course, it's kind of, I mean, I feel like every time I talk about a haunting, it's kind of the same stuff, but people, you know, doors close, giggling, cold spots, all those type of things are felt by many people that go and stay overnight. And I'm sure there's like a ghost adventures and all these other things, right?
00:38:42
Speaker
Yeah, there's some on YouTube. And there's actually some, I think there's actually a whole documentary on this that I didn't actually watch because I just found out about it. But I think there is a whole documentary on this as well that you could watch. Oh, freaky. That was good. This was a disturbing early morning record. I know. But hey, we're on October, so I guess it's time for it. Yeah. I actually was going to say, I wonder if we should be doing something special for October.
00:39:10
Speaker
I know, but I don't know. Just more of this, I guess. Just the darkest, most horrible things we can find on the internet. Yes. Thank you guys for listening. And until next time. We hope you have some sweet, sweet nightmares. Bye.