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The Laff in the Dark Mannequin & William H. Mumler
148 Plays10 months ago
This week it's two terrifying tales about more than meets the eye!
First up, Lauren takes you on a ride through the uncanny valley with the “Laff in the Dark” mannequin at the The Pike amusement park. In the early ‘70s, children visiting the boardwalk in Long Beach, California noticed one of the mannequins in the funhouse attraction looked a little…off. But it wasn't until some years later, when a production crew from a popular TV series were shooting in the funhouse in 1976, something more was discovered beneath the surface. How did this grotesque mannequin end up as a set piece in the amusement park ride and where did it come from?! And what was the glow-in-the-dark paint it was covered in actually hiding?!
Next, Felicia profiles William H. Mumler - a spirit photographer from the 1800s. People took notice of Mumler’s photography when he developed a self-portrait that appeared to feature the ghost of who he claimed was his cousin that had been dead for 12 years! This portrait is believed by many in the paranormal world to be the first spirit photograph ever. But William had both famous clients and famous critics, including infamous flim flam man P.T. Barnum. Listen to hear more about his fascinating work!
PS: If you have requests for future episodes or just want to hang out, follow us on Instagram @sinistersisterspodcast
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Transcript
Introduction to Sinister Sisters
00:00:12
Speaker
Welcome to the Sinister Sisters podcast. I'm Lauren. I'm Felicia. We're best friends. And we like spooky stuff. How you doing? I am doing good. And now our mics sound so good. Yeah, sorry. We had to restart because my game was really hot. Just a little restart. And it was like, why is Felicia just screaming? Which I thought about just leaving. I thought about making people all like it. I mean, I normally I like screaming, so it's OK.
Review: Haunting in Venice
00:00:39
Speaker
But yeah, so I'm going to repeat what I said before, which is recommendations. Yeah. Yeah. So I just watched Haunting in Venice, which is something I had wanted to see because I love a ghost seance vibe film. It's on Hulu right now. And it was OK. It was sort of like I had some fun stuff in there. It's very seance meets clue murder mystery situation and
00:01:09
Speaker
I it's not that I didn't like it. I think it's also hard for me to watch movies at home now. Oh, my focus is just as good as it once was, perhaps. And so, like, I'll be like, I'm going to go get a snack and I'll come back and just won't rewind. Yep. Yep.
00:01:27
Speaker
You're like, I missed something key. Hmm. Yeah. Well, who cares? But it has Tina Fey in it. And that's also a weird thing because I just feel like when she's not in a comedic role, she is still reading as comedic. And so she's very stylistically different than everyone else in the movie. And also she feels so contemporary to me. Yeah, exactly. This is something that's supposed to be like the 18
00:01:55
Speaker
sixties or that was a guess. I don't know. Sometimes during sometime during the spiritualist spiritualism movement, which is actually what I'm talking about today. So that's cool.
Love on the Spectrum Highlights
00:02:05
Speaker
Um, tie over. But yeah. And then I also watched the new season of love on the spectrum. So good. We did too. It's so, I mean, I died laugh. I haven't laughed so hard by myself and I can't remember his time, but when
00:02:25
Speaker
that Shih Tzu started humping the other Shih Tzu. And these two people are on this day and it's the most hilariously awkward moment I have ever seen in my life. I was like, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. They're on a date trying so hard. Like they haven't even held hands. Like they're so uncomfortable. And then this Shih Tzu is just like, Oh, look, a lady. I loved it.
00:02:54
Speaker
I know I shared it on Instagram, but my thing that I couldn't stop laughing at is when Abby and what's his name, the long time couple that went to Africa, when she was like, she was like, when we get married, we can have a big bowl of candy. I liked also whenever she saw a dead animal, she goes, that's never going to happen to me.
00:03:19
Speaker
And every time she's like, you treat me like a princess. But he does. He treats me like a princess. When they sing, can you feel the love tonight? I could feel the love. I really could. It was so amazing. Just them looking out over Africa. Oh my god. I mean, it is magic. It's just love is magic. Love is magical. It is. And I loved that new kid that was in the Shih Tzu. Me too.
00:03:46
Speaker
You're so handsome. I know, so handsome. And the new girl, she was like gay. She is so magical and sweet. I just... Her family was just so supportive. I know. Yeah. I loved it all. I just loved it all. But yeah, that's basically what I've been... Oh, and I watched the
Queer Eye's New Season
00:04:06
Speaker
new... Is it new? I don't even know when it came out, the new season of Queer Eye, whenever that came out. I also watched that too.
00:04:12
Speaker
We're watching it right now. I feel like it's the first season that's not getting me. I agree. I'm not as emotional. I'm used to crying, but I watch it and I'm not really crying, but that's just me. I don't know. Did I ever tell you I saw Jonathan in Dallas do a night? Lucky. Yes.
00:04:34
Speaker
It was not their thing. It was a one-person show, kind of stand-up comedy, kind of political. They framed it as sex education. Not everyone should do stand-up.
00:04:51
Speaker
No, but I think what it was is like, you know, and I think they did they use they them anti him now. I'm not sure. I'm not sure either. But Jonathan, I know they definitely use they at least. So I'm going to go with that. But they felt incredibly fake.
00:05:09
Speaker
And I was just like, I think this is just not their thing. Like when they're interacting with people on the show, even like obviously Jonathan is like so flamboyant and heightened, but like you never feel like it's false. And then in the stand up, I was just like, Oh gosh, like I don't like they were talking in like a higher pitched voice. Maybe they were just really nervous because like live doing stuff live in front of an audience is very different than like being filmed by like a small crew. So maybe I wonder if it was that I don't know.
00:05:39
Speaker
I think that could totally be it. Because I love Jonathan. Did you ever listen to Jonathan on Dax's podcast? No. Dax Shepard's podcast, you have to listen. It's so intense and sad. He said it to me. Oh God, that's weird. Okay. No, just because Dax is like an asshole. And then Jonathan was like, just so everyone knows, this is a highly edited version and Dax is more of an asshole. Yeah. Oh my God, that's terrible.
00:06:07
Speaker
So I'll send it to you. It's about trans people participating in sports, which obviously is something that Jonathan feels really passionately about.
Jonathan Van Ness: Stand-up and Controversy
00:06:14
Speaker
And nothing that Dex said was really OK. But he was kind of doing the thing of like, so let me play devil's advocate. I don't really believe this. But if you're born a man, you should be. That's what other people are saying. Yeah, if you're born a man, you shouldn't get the. Exactly. And Jonathan cries. It's like, anyway.
00:06:34
Speaker
It's very sad. But I was like, even that where it's like a very intense thing, obviously he's very passionate about it. Like Jonathan just like, I don't know, it was so beautiful. And so I was, the show was not exactly what I expected. I still had a great time. Still loved a lot of it. But anyway, it was also just the, I did not expect the demo to be white middle-aged women. And it really was.
00:06:58
Speaker
It's like we were like the youngest by far. Interesting. Yeah. Not what I would expect either. Yeah. Like nobody Gen Z was there. Wow. Well, I guess, I mean, I wonder what the Queer Eye, like demographic is. Like it might be just like older white women that need a good cry. I don't know. It was like so many women with like, you know, this is my mom juice, like that kind of lady that I was like, oh my gosh, like blazers. Like, I don't know.
Documentary Discussions
00:07:28
Speaker
Like a lot of hot pink blazers. That's, that's hilarious. I've really derailed this. So I don't really have a ton of recommendations. I've been, I still haven't finished Natalia Speaks, but it is juicy. It is juicy. It's wild. The dad is fucking crazy. When he's like sitting on the floor, like an animal, it is so uncomfortable. It is uncomfortable.
00:07:54
Speaker
Yes, and when they show those like sexy pictures from the wife I was like
00:08:00
Speaker
I was like, are they allowed to show in like a JC penny top? I was like, it's so it's all it's all so uncomfortable. I feel so bad for like the old the brother, like all of it. I just I know the brother. Oh my God. And then like, what does he even what does he even see in urban things that he was like saying that she made him do? It's just, oh, God, it's horrible.
00:08:26
Speaker
It's horrible, but I have been enjoying watching it. And then the last one, have you watched any of The Curse with Emma Stone, that TV show? No.
00:08:35
Speaker
Oh my God, it's so cringe. I don't know how you feel about cringe comedy. It's incredibly cringe. I can't watch it. Then it's probably not for you. It's probably not for you. I can barely watch good comedy. Well, you're going to go see poor things. I feel like Emma Stone is in a new category now where she's just like,
00:08:57
Speaker
an incredible actress. I haven't really felt that way. I've been like, oh, she's great. I like her. But now I'm like, oh, she's like...
00:09:05
Speaker
Florence Pugh. Oh, she's a serious actress. That's great. So can't wait to hear what you think. I think there is something about when like an actor is long enough in their career, they can start working on the types of projects with the type of people they're really interested in. And so like just seeing like who she's been working with over the last couple of years versus like doing the rom com thing. Yeah, that's I mean, that's amazing.
00:09:30
Speaker
And even this, like, it's like just very strange. So it's like it's cool to see her in something that's like a cringe comedy TV show. Yeah, that's so funny. It's really interesting. But anyway, she'll be American nightmare.
00:09:46
Speaker
What is it? What? Oh, my God. You have to watch it today. It's a three part mini series about a kidnapping story that happened in California, like, I don't know, 10 years ago, almost. Oh, wow.
00:10:03
Speaker
And the news portrayed it as this like Gone Girl case because the movie had come out of Gone Girl. And I'm not going to spoil it, but you have to watch it. It is so horrifying in so many ways. It is. It's just wild and it's just it's like this thing that happens over and over again. It's like, oh, if people just believed women, everything would be better.
00:10:31
Speaker
but I highly recommend, highly, highly recommend. Right after I watched it, I listened to the two-part episode that Criminal did on the case called 48 Hours, also really good. Oh my God, I can't wait. Okay, great. Because we're having a long movie day inside not doing anything but wedding planning and watching movies.
Felicia's Wedding Planning
00:10:54
Speaker
Good for you. And then eating sushi tonight and I can't wait.
00:10:58
Speaker
What am I supposed to be doing wedding planning wise? I can't tell if I'm behind or on time. I'm like, should we be having meetings with, like should Travis and I be like, what are you doing tonight? Like what are you wearing? So we have to get, I'm like, should this just be a talking episode? I can't decide. I'm so sorry. No, I love it. I'm wondering if we just stretch this into an episode, but anyway.
00:11:21
Speaker
We are about to send out save the dates, which of course we could not settle on save the dates in like a simple way, just as we do. So we have a save the date. We just have to work with the knot to like design it how we want. It's insane. Okay. So I've done that. You've done save the dates. We're updating our website. We have to like book a candle person. We're crazy because we have a florist. Now you sound really loud.
00:11:50
Speaker
Oh, no. Am I getting too loud? You can't really go any lower, can it? I don't think. I just probably do talking too loud. Maybe you're excited. Keep going. I'm just excited. Your flower person doesn't do candles? Not as many as we need because our ceremony and reception are different places. She could do it, but she doesn't quite have the inventory that we want because we're trying to save money on flowers by having a lot of candles.
00:12:17
Speaker
I understand. The two locations is rough. We're getting a candle person who's honestly not very expensive. We have to nail that down. We finally figured out transportation. We're figuring out our hotel blocks. It's just all stupid little things. Don't feel panicked. You're doing great. We have to plan a trip in April to go because we still don't have a cake person. We have to go do cake tastings and hair and makeup trial.
00:12:45
Speaker
And I'm like, yes, the hair and makeup thing is something that's like.
00:12:50
Speaker
It's stressful, too, because I reached out to a couple people that were already books for July, and I was just like, ah, no. Fuck. I know. I'm like a little panicked, but I believe that I'll find the person. I'll find the person. It'll be fine. You will. OK, I was just curious. I feel fine now. I was stressed. You should feel fine. Don't feel stressed. We're behind, we feel. We have to do a registry. I'm supposed to be doing. Well, if you.
00:13:18
Speaker
My wedding planner sent us a thing that's literally like, these are the things you need to check off each month. I can send it to you. Please send it to me. I hope she doesn't listen to this podcast. Please send it to me. No, no, no, no. I'll send it to you. It's easy. Thank you. Should I jump into the episode? We should, yes. Yes, because I got it with the four things. This will just be a longer one. This will just be a longer intro. Long intro. I love it.
00:13:43
Speaker
So I am doing, I told James what I was doing and he was like, oh wow, like a real classic Lauren podcast episode.
Tales of the Unusual: Elmer McCurdy and William H. Mumler
00:13:50
Speaker
So I am doing a, you know, a body that people thought was a fake body and then was a real body. Classic, classic.
00:14:01
Speaker
So it started with children going to this amusement park in Long Beach, California. It was called The Pike. And there was a fun house that's called, or was called, Laugh in the Dark. That looks kind of like a typical, like, you know, fair haunted house kind of ride. Have you ever been to like a fair, you know, it's like the little... Yeah, of course.
00:14:23
Speaker
Yeah, the little cheap car goes through. There's some gummies. Lauren, I've told you at the Great Frederick Fair in Frederick, Maryland, I went on one of those rides, and it was broken. All the lights inside were broken. So you just went through the dark. And at the end, the guy jumped out to scare us, like the ride operator. And I kicked him in the face. Did I tell you that? You definitely got it. Like the whole ride was with my knee. With my knee.
00:14:53
Speaker
because the whole ride was broken except for like the cart could move through it but everything else was broken so it was just going through the dark and silence until the very end and then he goes and I go I need him right in the face
00:15:10
Speaker
I don't even know how you got out of that carnival cart to knee him in the face because I was leaned back in this in this way. I'm trying to show you where my knees were up by my face. Oh, OK. I see my knees because you thought there could be something scary. I was young and I was like playing really scared because I was young and like I think I was sitting with a boy or something. But yeah, definitely. Wow. Did it was he OK? I don't know. Hard to say.
00:15:40
Speaker
He never did it again to another guest.
00:15:43
Speaker
That's so funny. I love state fair haunted houses. It's dark ride, ghouls, demons, skeletons, probably $5 for the whole thing. They spent $5 on the whole thing. Yes, yes, from Party City. Yes. One of the mannequins was definitely creepiest to the children. It was talked about. It was a whole thing. It was hanging from a noose, very scary. Everyone just assumed it was another mannequin in the haunted house.
00:16:12
Speaker
In 1976, there was this TV show that was called The Six Million Dollar Man. They came in to shoot on location at the amusement park. They wanted to show the main character going through the fun house. While they were fixing up the set for the shoot, a crew member reached up for the mannequin on the news to adjust it and the whole arm broke off in his hand.
00:16:36
Speaker
Oh no. It was so gross. So he held up the arm and he could literally see a bone and layers of skin. He was like, holy shit.
00:16:49
Speaker
and they called law enforcement and it was taken to the LA coroner's office and through investigation that all I get into later in the episode, they determined it was a man named Elmer McCurdy, which like it's kind of cool that they found out who it was. So he used to- How do you say Elmer? Oh God, you'll tell me. Well, I was going to say, well, I'll tell you later, obviously a famous body is what it turns out to be.
00:17:17
Speaker
So Elmer was an outlaw who died in a gunfight with police 65 years before he was found in the fun house. So in 1911, he was just like, it sounds like a vagabond, robbed a train, went up to Oklahoma, and he had stolen $46 and two jugs of whiskey, which I'm like, can you imagine police chasing you to another state for that?
00:17:45
Speaker
It just seems like that worth it, unless there's really nothing else going on. I don't know. Right. That's why I'm like, was just nothing happening. But it feels like that happened a lot at that time. They were like chasing criminals. I don't know. Yeah.
00:17:58
Speaker
So he holed up in a barn, police pursued him and killed him in like a shootout. And so his body was taken to a funeral home in Pawhuska, Oklahoma, but no one came to claim it. And so the undertaker was a businessman and I guess it was kind of at the time of like
00:18:20
Speaker
freak shows and all of that kind of thing. He decided to embalm the body and start charging a price for people to not see. For a nickel, people could see the quote, the bandit who wouldn't give up.
00:18:39
Speaker
He was standing in a corner of the funeral home and he charged them to come see the body. He did actually receive several offers of other people trying to buy the body off of him, but he always refused. Five years into this, which is a pretty long time to have a body on display, I feel,
00:19:00
Speaker
and not get caught. Yeah. And not have like a family member be like, hey, that's my brother or whatever. Yeah. So five years into this, there was a man named Aver who turned up at the funeral home and he claimed that he was Elmer's long lost relative asked to take the body to properly lay it to rest. He had actually already contacted the sheriff and a local attorney and got permission to take custody of the body. And so
00:19:30
Speaker
The funeral home released the body and Ava shipped it to Arkansas City, Kansas.
00:19:38
Speaker
And actually his name is not Aver, which what even is the name Aver? A-V-E-R. Like that does feel like a made up name to me. Yeah, never heard that one. So these men were actually James and Charles Patterson, the former who was the owner of the great Patterson Carnival shows. So sort of a scam artist here. So they had concocted this scheme.
00:20:02
Speaker
to get the body in order to feature it in their carnival. And so then he was put on display as the outlaw who would never be captured alive was his new branding until 1922 when Patterson sold his operation to Louis Sonny. So Sonny used the corpse in his museum of crime, which was basically just like wax figures and then this corpse of like other famous criminals.
00:20:31
Speaker
And then again, it moved on to another. So in 1928, it was part of a sideshow that accompanied the trans-American foot race, which was just a marathon that was going on at the time. And then in 1933, it was acquired by director Dwayne Esper for his film Narcotic. And they actually put it in the lobby of the theaters where they were showing the movie. I know. My god. It was just such a dark, weird time. Can you imagine? Yeah.
00:21:01
Speaker
I mean, I guess it's like a mummy or anything else, but it just feels- It just feels wrong. It feels against nature. Yeah. And like against the law. Yes. And also like in so many of these situations, and obviously we know where it ends up, like people think it's fake and it's not. Yeah. So it was in the theaters for the movie. And by this time, the body was fully mummified. So the skin had become hard and shriveled.
00:21:30
Speaker
But the body itself had started to shrink. And so they were using that as four because the movie was about drugs, narcotic. They were like, he's a doped up guy and that's why his body is shrinking and his skin's deteriorating. Too many drugs.
00:21:50
Speaker
Which is just strange. So after Sonny was like the owner, that guy that had the Museum of Crime, he owned it and was like lending it out to people clearly. So when he died in 1949, it was put in storage in an LA warehouse. And then supposedly like there were a couple other things like in 1964, which now we're talking, you know, he died in 1911.
00:22:19
Speaker
So now we're talking, you know, 50 years later, the body is still being lent out. So it was like, it's crazy. It was in the movie She Freak in 1967. And then finally in 1968, the son of the guy who had the crime museum, he sold the body and other wax figures for $10,000, which I feel like in 1968 is pretty good.
00:22:48
Speaker
Pretty good. Yeah. Yeah. So he sold it to this guy whose name is Spoonie Singh, which I'm like, what a cool name. Spoonie Singh, who owned the Hollywood Wax Museum. So they actually took, they ended up taking the body to a show in Mount Rushmore of all places. Like this body traveled.
00:23:10
Speaker
While the corpse was there, because it was outside at Mount Rushmore, it lost the tips of the ears and the fingers and toes blown off. Oh my God. That's not nice. Not bad. People just looked down and they were like, oh, he lost a pinky. It's somewhere on Mount Rushmore.
00:23:34
Speaker
Some poor bird ate that. They didn't know. Yes, 100%. Basically, then this is where it finally was sold to Ed Lirsch, I think, who was one of the owners of the Pike Amusement Park that I mentioned at the beginning of this. By 1976, 65 years after he had died, the corpse was in the fun house at the amusement park.
00:24:02
Speaker
And it was there, you know, at least for a couple of years, I think before they discovered it for this TV show. So they did an autopsy when they like, you know, the guy found the arm, found the bone in it.
00:24:14
Speaker
take the body down and do an autopsy. They found out that he was a man who had died of a gunshot wound to the chest. At that point, the body was completely petrified, covered in wax, and it had been covered with layers of phosphorus paint, which is glow in the dark paint that I assume they put on it for the funhouse. Oh my God. To make it spookier than it already was?
00:24:38
Speaker
This just like the time that they what movie was that it was poltergeist right where they used real skeletons skeletons? Yeah, like I'm just like is this Because like it's easier. It's just easier to have the reason easier How I can't be required those things it can't be that's not right
00:25:00
Speaker
It was in a bad way. The corpse had shrunk down so that it only weighed approximately 50 pounds and it was 5'3". Basically, it just kept decaying. They kept trying to keep it okay. Some hair was still visible on the sides and back of his head. Obviously, as I said, the ears, big toes, and fingers were all missing.
00:25:24
Speaker
And they could actually see the marks from his original autopsy and the marks of his original embalming, of course. They found he had tuberculosis in the lung, as well as bunions, and then scars that Elder McCurdy was documented to have. So they were able to sort of narrow it down that way. And then this, I thought, was super interesting. The bullet had been removed from the body, but the bullet jacket was still in the body.
00:25:52
Speaker
They were able to use that to figure out when he had died because that kind of bullet was used in the, whatever, 1910s. I thought that was cool. Then they actually analyzed his teeth and they did find a 1924 penny in his mouth and a ticket from Louis Sunnies Museum of Crime way back when. It was still in his mouth.
00:26:20
Speaker
Wow. So they contacted Dan Sunny, who was the son of the guy who owned the Museum of Crime. And they were able to confirm that the body was Elmer McCurdy. So by December 11, 1976, news was out, the story was everywhere. And several funeral homes called offering to bury the body for free, but they wanted to see if any relatives came forward.
00:26:45
Speaker
Nobody came. Eventually, Fred Olds, who represented the Indian territory posse of Oklahoma Westerns, eventually convinced them to let him bury the body. On April 22nd, 1977, there was a funeral procession. Eventually, they put the body in the Summit View Cemetery in Guthrie, Oklahoma. Three hundred people attended the funeral, which honestly
00:27:11
Speaker
I'm like, that's sweet. It's kind of a celeb by that point. And they decided to, in probably ways that we've talked about before, they actually put a thick layer of concrete over the casket so that nobody could steal his body again. And on his grave, it says that he died in 1911 and the burial date was 1977. So his body traveled for 66 years.
00:27:41
Speaker
I'm just imagining, Lauren, this is such a good story, but I'm just imagining if ghosts are a thing, right? The ghost of this guy, sorry, is floating around and watching his body goes to all his place and just be like, damn, damn, damn. Can't catch a break. Can't catch a break.
00:28:05
Speaker
It's really crazy. And just I still am just like, yeah, like by the time I got to the fun house, I'm like, that was like barely a body that was like a shriveled up. Like, why? Why would you want that?
00:28:16
Speaker
I can't. It's really bad. People are terrible. They are. They are. Just want to make money. Well, that's the story. That's the story of the mannequin in the fun house. I mean, that's so good. That is such a good one. Well done. Well done. Thank you. I can't believe I hadn't heard of it. I've never. No, I've never heard of that ever in the 70s. Reckless. Reckless.
00:28:54
Speaker
Okay, so I am doing a story today about, as I said earlier, it takes place in the time period in America where spiritualism was really, really at its height. So this is like the, you know,
00:29:14
Speaker
1840s through 60s ish. And spiritualism is basically a movement that's religious, but also pretty social because it's, yeah, but the idea that you can communicate with the dead, seances, mediums, talking boards, which we now call Ouija boards, things like this.
00:29:39
Speaker
So it was really popular at the time that a photographer named William H. Mumbler started, he had a different career before. He was actually like a jeweler or a jewelry engraver, I guess to be specific, in Boston.
00:29:57
Speaker
And he started to do photography basically as a hobby. And at this time photography was still kind of like a pretty exciting new thing. That was already pretty magical. Like the idea that you could pose in front of something and it could capture you, right? That's a pretty amazing thing that obviously we don't think twice about today, but it's pretty exciting.
00:30:23
Speaker
And he decides he's going to do a self-portrait of himself. This is in the early 1860s. And when he develops the film, he sees himself and then he also sees a faint ghost of his cousin who has been dead for 12 years in the photo with him. Someone specific. Someone specific, yes.
00:30:51
Speaker
And so at first he says that he thought it was just some sort of mistake. Maybe he had put a photo on top of another photo, like maybe there was just something, something was wrong. And he kept taking photos of different people in his community and he kept capturing spirits and his photographs.
00:31:16
Speaker
Wow. Yes. So this became what was known as the first spirit photograph or spirit photography. And people went nuts for it. Because first of all, all this stuff was already, you know, really exciting in society, particularly high society, but also the idea that you could physically see a loved one
00:31:45
Speaker
with you, taking care of you. Like sometimes it would be their loved one had like a hand on their shoulder or a small child that had died really young.
00:31:57
Speaker
sitting at their legs and just this idea that being able to capture not only yourself, but the spirit of a loved one and kind of demonstrate that they're still with you and always looking after you was incredible, especially for people that are grieving. So he gets really, really famous for doing these portraits.
00:32:23
Speaker
And he gets this show, and I'm kind of skipping, you know. Yeah, he got very popular, lots of people. He also charged money for this, by the way, and charged more and more money for this over time. I was waiting for the- Yeah, sorry. Because capitalism- The money making. The money making scheme. And once he realized he could make money off of this, it was, you know, that was the goal.
00:32:48
Speaker
So him and his wife worked together on this business of spirit photography and he never like guaranteed anything like he was like sometimes
00:33:00
Speaker
the spirits will be here, sometimes they won't. And he also said, the person that's at the forefront of your sympathies, I'm saying that a little bit wrong, but the idea, the person that you're most feeling is the person that's going to appear, which also left it up for a bit of interpretation.
00:33:28
Speaker
At a certain point, people started to get suspicious because a couple of times somebody would recognize the spirit in the photo because they're very like blurry and I mean, they're clearly the shape of a person, but sometimes their facial features aren't so clear. So, you know, he would talk to them and try to figure out like,
00:33:53
Speaker
Like if he knew they had lost a child, a child would appear in the photo, blah, blah, blah, versus an adult or something like that. And then at some point, somebody gets their photo back and they recognize it as somebody that is alive in town, huh?
00:34:14
Speaker
Interesting. Interesting. There is another story of a woman whose son had been at war and she thought he was dead and she takes this photo and he's in the photo as a spirit and then he shows up alive. Turns out he didn't die at war. Confusing, worrisome, suspicious.
00:34:41
Speaker
Sensing something might be wrong here. And so then, you know, some people are calling it a hoax. Mumbler, Mumbler, though, because he was very famous, at some point he got a show in New York City of all his photos.
00:34:55
Speaker
And the strangest person got interested and angry about his work, which was P.T. Barnum. So P.T. Barnum, because he was in the entertainment industry, he didn't like the idea of somebody taking advantage of somebody's grief for money.
00:35:22
Speaker
He was like, if you're doing this to entertain people, that's one thing. But if you're doing this like in a manipulative way, that's not right. Yes. So he was very, very against it. And at some point there was a court case. Let me just find the year on that. Yeah. 1869.
00:35:43
Speaker
Munler was charged with obtaining money under false pretenses. So people had alleged that he was deceiving people for money with a spirit photography, blah, blah, blah. And then Barnum, PT Barnum actually was a witness in the trial, basically saying that this is he was a scam. Yeah, he's a scam artist.
00:36:06
Speaker
And so what they tried to do for the trial is they tried to recreate a photo of P.T. Barnum with the ghost of Abraham Lincoln in it to prove that this is false. Like we can make this and show you a photo of it and show you exactly how he did it. So they create this photo and it looks fine. I'll post a picture of it. But it doesn't look really anything like Mumbler's work.
00:36:37
Speaker
Interesting. Yeah. And so eventually Mumler was acquitted because they were not able to figure out how he was scamming people. So they couldn't prove that he was scamming people. Wow. They couldn't prove he was he was fabricating the photos. That's pretty badass. I know.
00:37:01
Speaker
And he was always like, no, these are real. These are real. Blah, blah, blah. Wow. Yeah. And so the most famous client he got, which is really interesting because it happened after the trial.
00:37:17
Speaker
Mary Todd Lincoln, I kid you not. She said, I saw that picture of my husband and I want you to make it. Yes. So she comes to him under a pseudonym. So he doesn't know it's her at first. She's like in like morning clothes and has like a veil over her face. And she wanted to be closer to her son that had died.
00:37:41
Speaker
And so she comes to the studio. I guess the sun had more recently died on her. And so she comes to the studio, blah, blah, blah. And he goes to take the photo. She removes her veil and he realizes who it is. He takes the photo. Nothing's changed. She just takes the photo like normal. And in that photo appears Abraham Lincoln standing behind her with his hands on her shoulders. Holy poop.
00:38:08
Speaker
And it looks about a hundred times more authentic than the one that PT Barnum had made.
00:38:15
Speaker
Wow. Yeah. And so and we'll post this photo as well. And it really it really does look fascinating. But so that's a moment where it's kind of like, OK, so were these fake or are they just like, how did he do this? I mean, how did he did it himself? I love that, like, P.T. Barnum was like, I'm going to get him to whatever it's going to be. And it's just talented.
00:38:43
Speaker
or had just too much skill level. The other famous photograph that he did was this guy, Master Harold, who was a medium for Massachusetts. He took a photo of him in 1872. And once he developed it, it shows Harold in a trance and he's surrounded by a bunch of different spirits because he's a medium. That's really interesting looking one as well. That's so cool. Yeah. And they're really, they're really astounding photos
00:39:11
Speaker
I, yeah, we'll post them. But they're the thing that's astounding about them is that it's so three dimensional on a way where it's like you can see a person's hand on someone's shoulder, you can see someone, you can see a woman leaning her head on the face of her husband. Like it doesn't look like they're just in the background floating. It looks like they're engaged with the person in the photo. And that's what makes me so realistic. That's so cool.
00:39:41
Speaker
Yeah. And it's sort of unclear to me what happened to him at the end of his life. Like I don't really see much about about his death. He died in 1884. And his obituary really only has like one line about his spirit photography like it
00:40:04
Speaker
It said some other stuff, but it does say the deceased at one time gained considerable notoriety in connection with spirit photographs. But like he was. I mean, what he did was is astounding. It's so cool. Yeah, incredibly talented, even if it's all fake, even if it's fake. Yeah, just insanely talented that he was able to do this in like the 1860s is so wild. I love that. What a good story, too.
00:40:33
Speaker
Yeah, I liked both those stories this week. They were fun. Me too. Felicia is going to see poor things, so she's got to go. Yes, I'm so excited. I actually tried to see it the other day before a doctor's appointment and I had, I think I had like two hours before my appointment and then I looked it up and I was like, oh, two hours and 25 minutes. I can't see it today. I promise it flies though. It doesn't feel like a long movie. Yeah, it's okay. I mean, since Ari Aster, I've been fine with a three hour movie.
00:41:03
Speaker
That's hilarious. Thank you all for listening. And we hope you have some sweet, sweet nightmares. Bye.