Transcript
Speaker: Welcome to the Sinister Sisters Podcast. I'm Felicia. I'm Lauren. We're best friends. And we like spooky stuff. And today, I'm pretty stoked about my topic today. And it is because of the recommendation I'm going to give. I'm just diving in. Is that OK? Do it. Do it. Dive in. I guess I was going to say, I don't really have a ton of recommendations. I can talk about my things, but I can talk about it after you do yours too.
Speaker: Okay, cool. All right, I'll be, so yeah. So the recommendation I have is actually a musical. Last night I saw Teeth. That's right. Teeth. The musical based on the film of the same name about the girl with vagina teeth.
Speaker: Yeah. It was awesome. It was at Playwrights Horizons here in New York. Book and lyrics by Michael R. Jackson. Book and music by Anna K. Jacobs and directed by Sarah Benson. Oh my gosh. I'm looking at the program. I just realized Joe used to work with Sarah Benson. That's right. Are you talking about that? No, he didn't mention it, but that's true. I saw it with our friend Joe last night.
Speaker: That is crazy. Because when he was in right after school, right? Yeah, when he went to Soho Rep. Soho Rep. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. That's crazy. But yeah, it was super fun and weird and cult -ish. It was great. I felt like they pushed it into an even weirder, more sexual space and more like female liberation space, sexual liberation.
Speaker: It was cool. They even had like when you walked in, they had all this like stuff you could buy from some kind of like local positive sex shop. And it was cool. It was cool. You know, there was fake penises being waved around. There was blood. There was belting. It was cool. I honestly really enjoyed it. Yeah. And I knew I learned a new
Speaker: of like the carry like advertising or like felt very similar to like for sure. Yeah, yeah, I feel that for sure. And I think I knew I liked it because whenever I see a play or musical, and I have this feeling like, Oh, I want to direct that. Like, that's how I know. I really liked it. And I had that feeling where I was like, Oh, I hope I get to direct this one day because it's so wild. I love that.
Speaker: Yeah. And it's funny because I'm going to rewatch Teeth this weekend because I saw it so many years ago, like probably 10 years ago. I don't even know. So I couldn't even really tell you if the plot was exactly the same because I honestly forget. But I want to rewatch it so I can kind of see how much they kept the same and how different it was other than, of course, the singing and the dancing. But yeah, it was it was fabulous. And it kind of ended up being this battle between
Speaker: these step siblings, which was really like a layer, extra layer of like dark, strange stuff going on. I love that.
Speaker: But I liked it. And, you know, it's doing that like female empowerment, fuck the patriarchy thing, but without being like annoying about it, if that makes sense. Like not too in your face. But actually, it's so in your face, but in a comedic way. That it's palatable, if that makes sense. Yeah, not like preachy, I guess. Yes. Yeah, even though there is a preacher character played by Stephen Bescal, who was awesome.
Speaker: But yeah, that's my recommendation. I don't know if I've... Did you ever see Silence the Musical with me or you never... I never went. I was like, I don't know that we were like as close then. Yeah.
Speaker: But I was curious because that was like obviously so parody. Like, yeah, silly, silly. Silence is so like the movie. So serious that the musical was like so goofy. But I was curious because I feel like teeth. The movie has like a little. I don't know. Again, haven't seen it in so long. I mean, this was played straight. So it's played very like. OK. In terms of the acting. But in terms of like, you know, the design and style and the stuff like that, it's super heightened.
Speaker: But, but yeah, it was it was cool. I like to love that. Very camp, very, very good stuff. Amazing. Yeah, I feel like I watched something else, but this is really random. But Travis and I have started just watching Rugrats for fun in the mornings or the evenings.
Speaker: and it's bringing a lot of joy. Every episode, we're like, this episode! And we're just kind of bonding through a shared experience that we had growing up in the 90s, and it's nice. It might have been my first experience with any kind of Judaism. I was just thinking about it. That's right. That's right. Tommy's Jewish. That's right. Because I was like, wow, Passover. Yeah, and they have that one Hanukkah episode. Yeah.
Speaker: But I learned a lot. It's very, it's very good. And it's that kind of show where you watch it as an adult and you're like, oh, man, like they're doing some really funny stuff here for the adults, too. Like, and it's great. And I know, like, we're in a weird time because of like the Nickelodeon horrible. Oh, my God. Yeah. Stuff coming out from that documentary that I haven't watched yet. Which I saw that watch. I saw like everything on TikTok and I'm like, do I need to watch it? I feel like I watched the entire thing on TikTok. But I still have it all at some point.
Speaker: It's so sad. But yeah, what's your, you said reality TV thing you watch? Yes, we've been watching The Trust. I feel like nobody else has watched this, but it's, I liked it because it was not normal reality TV star people. Like it's like people from all different backgrounds, all different ethnicities, ages, everything else, like not like, you know, traditionally hot people.
Speaker: Yeah, but the coolest thing is like, yeah, exactly. The coolest thing is that it is basically it's like eight or nine people in a house together. And if they like each week, they can choose to vote someone off.
Speaker: Or if they don't, if no one votes for anyone, then they all just keep splitting the money in the, quote unquote, trust equally. So it's like you could hypothetically get to the end with everybody still in the house. Everyone splits the money evenly. It's a great, you know, thing. But of course that doesn't happen. And, you know, people turn on each other. Yeah, stab backs. Oh, yeah.
Speaker: But we thought it was really interesting. And I can't get James to watch a lot of reality TV shows. And so he actually liked it and watched it with me, which made it more fun, too. But it was good. And then I also wanted to talk about I can't remember if I've talked about it already on the podcast.
Speaker: but I've been reading the Court of Thorns and Roses books. Oh, you told me, I don't know if you talked about them. I told you, yeah. But I'm in like the third, no, I'm on the fourth one now, and I've really just been enjoying it. I've been like reading like a fiend, which I never do, so. That's great, I did. Love it. What's that book? I read the first one. Oh. But it's not that it's not for me, maybe. Too fantasy?
Speaker: Maybe it was a little too, but I also really like what's that other one with the dragons I read? Oh, I don't know. Is that a freaking one? Not Game of Thrones. No, no. I had to Google dragon book sexy.
Speaker: Which is so embarrassing. Wait, I think I, I think I've heard because somebody, I feel like the last time I said I'm reading Court of Thorns and Roses is someone they were like. Fourth wing, fourth wing. Yes, yes. Dragging the book's sexy. So. You have to clear your history before your high school skip back on that computer. Absolutely. That's hilarious. But yeah, I really liked that. I read the first one and I think I like.
Speaker: I read it over Christmas when I had time and then I got the second one that I've read like a chunk of but I don't know why maybe like
Speaker: I didn't think a quarter. Maybe it wasn't dark enough for me. Well, I was going to say I don't spoil anything, but I think you would like things later. Yeah, it also feels a little anime to me. Yeah, I could totally see that. Yes. It's a little bit like archetypes and. Yeah. Yeah. OK, cool. Yeah, I don't know if I've really watched anything out, so I'm happy to dive into my thrilling topic.
Speaker: I'm so excited. Yeah. So since I saw teeth, I felt like obviously I had to cover vagina dentata, AKA toothed vagina. So exciting. It's so exciting. And this is a, I mean, it's amazing that it is across the world and like ancient folklore of this idea of a woman's vagina having teeth and
Speaker: it kind of being related to the male fear of castration or the male fear of women's bodies. And it's also interesting because I'm, you know, I'm, I'm researching for this episode and I found a quote on this Fangoria article and the article is, beware the swallowing vagina, dentata and jaws and teeth.
Speaker: It's from a bunch of years ago. No, actually, no, it's not. It's from 2022. Anyways, there was a quote by Barbara Creed and I was in in this book and I was like, wait, that's the book I'm literally reading right now. And so I literally pulled it out of my backpack and it's a book that you don't necessarily have to read to order because it's like, you know, like very academic.
Speaker: thing but it's it's called the monstrous feminine and it's this you know idea of like the female body being perceived or associated with like being monstrous in film and in culture
Speaker: And so I wasn't to this chapter yet, but I looked ahead and there was this chapter, Medusa's head, the vagina, Dintada, and Freudian theory. And I was like, well, that sounds probably what I should be looking at. I love that. And it's great. And there's all these stories from India and
Speaker: Native American stories in North America and Africa and like ancient Europe and and these stories where it's like the this It's sort of a cautionary tale and it can go kind of a couple of ways like one is the vagina has this is
Speaker: mouth to hell this like devil as it says here devil's gateway and this thing that could like devour you whole uh there's a quote here and it says this is from oh wait this is good
Speaker: According to Edward Gifford, don't know who that is, Muslim teachings stated that if a man looked into a vagina, it would bite off his eye beam and leave him blind. In this book, the great mother, Eric Newman, refers to the terrible goddess of Malaysia.
Speaker: who was known by Le Hevev and was feared by the men of this country and her name meant that which draws us to it, it's so that it may devour us. And it's like, what? And it's like, it is true, like this like fear a female, first of all, the fear of like the little literal biology of just like,
Speaker: Yes. This imagery of like this, the vagina is like this black hole that like can devour you or eat you. And it's also literally, I mean, this is such a gross episode, I'm sorry. But like this idea of like the penis going into the vagina and it's like castrating it and like it devouring it and like taking away your manhood by entering the black hole.
Speaker: And like how, I don't know, I feel like it is like a relatively mysterious, like because it is a whole like mysterious where it's like, guys, it's like out there. What's going on in there? External. Totally. And that's why it's like, yeah, yeah, it's so true where it's like vaginas are so mysterious and then like penises are so silly.
Speaker: because they're just like, hey, I'm here. What's up going on? Yes. And yeah, and so it's like they are like so obvious when things are going well and vaginas. It's like, who knows? I'm clear. That's so true. Oh, my God. That's so true. But yeah, so there's a couple ways like some of these stories go. One is like the idea of like these
Speaker: you know, toothed vagina women that need to be conquered by the hero through his penis or, for example, like the idea of like the goal being to break the vagina teeth. So like there's stories of like inserting like a special rock or something into a woman's vagina to break the teeth to then make her
Speaker: not only like able to have sex by the man for him, but also like to me feels like to like break a woman. You know what I'm saying? Like to make her submit somehow and take away like her power of that thing. And I think that's that is so true. It's like when you have as a woman, we have so much
Speaker: inherent power because we can procreate and because we are we have a mysterious genitalia and like we have and like men like you know want
Speaker: the vagina so badly, but also are scared of it. And that is this, it's just so, it's a lot, it's a lot. And I love, I mean, we feel like we've covered so many monsters on this podcast where it's like the beauty of a woman or the sensuality of a woman kills men, like draws men. Beauty lures the men so she can kill them.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah. I also want to just quickly talk about the relation to Medusa because they also mentioned this in another podcast I listened to when I first was thinking about doing this.
Speaker: But yeah, so I listened to this podcast. I just want to give it credit. It's apparently very popular because it's been around since the episode I listened to was from 2011. But it's called Stuff Mom Never Told You. And they had two great hosts and they were talking about it, but they talked about the Medusa thing. And this idea that Medusa's head is also associated with this vagina dentata or like
Speaker: the idea that Medusa's head can represent the female genitalia of her mouth being... This is so graphic. The quote in here says, Gorgon symbolized the mother goddess in her devouring aspect. Her genitals or womb gullet
Speaker: are represented by the terrible face with its gnashing teeth. And then also this idea that her snakes are like her pubic hair. Wow. And she can just like eat you and devour you. And it's just like what? What? And then of course Medusa
Speaker: And this comes up in teeth as well, like Medusa is as vindictive and angry as she is because she was like raped. And so she's always, you know, that's like the source of her turmoil.
Speaker: And and that's sort of what happens in teeth, too. It's like when. The girl is having sex and is and when she becomes scared or she feels like she needs to protect herself, that's when the teeth come out. So like there's a scene in which she's like sort of consenting to sex and then is getting uncomfortable and then she wants it to stop, but he won't stop.
Speaker: And so then it becomes this rape scene. And that's when her body fights back and like bites his penis off and he dies. And throughout the show, it's like she's so scared of this power she has and she wants to get rid of it. But then
Speaker: at a certain point through another experience with another guy, she becomes, like she sort of realizes that there is power in what she has and that she can use it for revenge and she can use it to hold power and punish those that, you know, treat her badly or treat women badly. And that's also, there's a story
Speaker: about vagina girls. Yeah. So there's a myth from New Mexico that tells the story of this boy hero known as Killer of Enemies that domesticated the truth vagina.
Speaker: I'm reading this directly from this book. There was once a house of vaginas where four vagina girls lived. The girls were actually just vaginas, but they had taken the form of women.
Speaker: lured by stories of the vagina girls, unsuspecting men would come to the house for intercourse. And then kicking monster, which is like the name of the father of the vagina girls, would kick the men inside just to be eaten up by the vaginas who possessed exceedingly strong teeth.
Speaker: And then it says outsmarting kicking monster the boy hero entered the house where he convinced the four vagina girls to eat a special medicine made of sour berries. The medicine destroyed their teeth and this everything so graphic puckered their lips so that they could no longer chew but only swallow graphic.
Speaker: They found this approach far more pleasurable than the old method. In this way, the truth vagina was put to its proper use. I'm using quotes. The myths of North American Indians tell a similar story. A meat eating fish lives in the vagina of the terrible mother and the hero is the one who overpowers her. So it's once again this idea of like a woman being something that has to be domesticated or tamed or
Speaker: taken down or power has to be taken from them because they are too powerful. And because they can overcome man and they can castrate man. And it's just so interesting. I know this shit is wild to me like it's sort of like, I'm reading I've been reading about this today and I've just been thinking about and I'm like, I feel like
Speaker: I'm just fascinated by all of it. Do you feel powerful? I do. I really do. I think it's all interesting when you think about, I feel like we've, I mean, I don't know. If we go all the way back, it's like women have always been the, quote, unquote, weaker sex. But then there's all these stories, I feel like, of these big female monsters and it's just like, it's all so cool too. Absolutely.
Speaker: And then it's like you even think of this idea of like the final girl in slasher movies when it's like the idea ultimately is like for them to like defeat the monster castrate the man that is attacking everyone or in like slumber party massacre like literally, you know, slicing the
Speaker: Drill off the guy as like a castration moment and this yeah and this idea of like girl females or final girls Defeating men who all have like phallic shaped weapons. Mm -hmm And it's just like it always like tight. It's all like I don't know. It's like all about gender. Yeah, I don't know look at this feminist theory but it's it's really fascinating to me and it just
Speaker: I don't know. I'm reading this because I'm like writing or working on something where I'm like talk about the monstrous feminine and this idea of like people being so scared of the female body. And I just, it really does fascinate me. And even like women are sometimes scared of their own bodies in this way where it's like,
Speaker: We're scared of it being too big or too small or like we're taught like masturbation is the sin you shouldn't explore your body and like or like I also feel like it's just not I don't know I know also guys have different things but that is like definitely not the same story being told to little boys and little girls.
Speaker: I don't think. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like that's a thing that boys do, right? Yeah, boys will be boys, like they have to do this. Yeah, and we're like, you know, more in a sex -positive culture than we probably grew up in.
Speaker: But, but still, but still, but it's all very fascinating to me. Um, or like childbirth, like I'm scared. I'm scared. Yeah. Yeah. Like I'm scared of what my body can do or what will happen to my body while it's doing the thing. Like it's, or like, like how sex
Speaker: you know, can be painful for women. And I don't know, like it's all, I don't know, there's just so much, there's so much there to like think about and dissect. And then when I'm like thinking about and I'm watching this musical and I'm just like, this is like wild. Yeah.
Speaker: So so yeah, I don't know. I mean, that's basically all I have or wanted to love it. I don't know if there's really anything else. And it is crazy that it's like has its like roots so far back.
Speaker: like this idea of vaginas with teeth goes so far back. It's very interesting. And so many different cultures. And it's like, yes, there has always been fear of the vagina. And it's so fascinating. And still, I mean, still, if we think about Trump talking about Hillary Clinton, whatever that quote was about blood coming out from wherever. Yeah. And it's the same thing over and over again of just
Speaker: And that's why it's so funny. I um, this is one thing I'm out being too personal but with like Travis like as he's the first like Straight dude I ever lived with I'm being like, you know how my period or whatever and he's just so like I don't care Like yeah, but I'm like, I don't know if like you're so like cool with this just like he grew up with a sister like blah blah I don't know. I remember one time I told a kid in like the
Speaker: I don't know, like sixth grade or something that girls don't fart and that only boys do that. And he was like, what? And I was like, we just don't have the anatomy for it. And he was like, that's he's like, that makes a lot of sense because girls never talk about farting. And I said, that's because we can't. We can't. Ian, I don't know if you're out there, but I'm really sorry I lied to you.
Speaker: My kid did not know me a fart machine every day. That's really good. But yeah, it's all fascinating to me. I'm going to keep like, I don't know, diving into some of the stuff just for funsies because that's what I do for fun. I told someone, someone asked me one day what I was reading when I was reading this and I was like, oh, it's this book about like the idea of the female body being like being seen as like a monstrous and like being seen as something that can
Speaker: the hurt men and blah, blah. And they're like, that's something interesting to just be casually reading. Just some light reading. I was like, well, OK, sure. Yeah, you're right. Strange. Anyways, so that's all I got for you right now. If I find some more deep dive stuff, I can maybe do a part two one day. But that's the that's what I got. But I did it. Incredible. Incredible. Yeah.
Speaker: So Felicia told me her topic and I was like, okay, I want to try to find something that kind of connects. So I'm doing Skyla, which is a female monster from Greek mythology. And you might have heard so she lives across like a narrow channel of water. And on the opposite side, there's a monster called
Speaker: caribdis. Yeah, I think that's how you say that, caribdis. And the two of them on either side of the water means like, you know, sailors going through that little river have like them attacking on either side. So there's like that phrase, basically like, you know, you're between a rock and a hard place. Oh, sure. But you know, you're between Skyla and caribdis is like a, you know, a phrase people say, I guess.
Speaker: So there's a lot of debate on who her parents are. There's lots of different things and different myths. Most name Cretaceous, and that's likely like a sea goddess, sometimes referred to as Seto, who is her mother. And then her father was either Triton or Poseidon or Forkus, and both are sea gods.
Speaker: So you can do more research on the variations on her lineage, like all these kinds of things that we do that are more mythology. There are a lot of different versions and some say that even like Cretaceous is just another name for the goddess Hecate.
Speaker: Oh, sure. Hek -koo -tee. I say hek -a -tee. I know, I thought so too. Anyway, I looked up the pronunciation and said hek -a -tee, but who knows? Greek, like I'm trying to do all my Greek things, all the like different pronunciations. But so according to the Aeneid, Skyla was a beautiful nymph or naid. Is that how you say that? Like a dryad. So maybe it's a naiad.
Speaker: Maybe. And she was claimed by Poseidon, but the jealous, narrated, and for tidy, I think is how you say it. So it's another like a basically like a goddess got jealous. And so turn turn to a terrible monster by poisoning the water of the spring where she would bathe.
Speaker: I like that. I like that imagery though. Let me poison your little bath. The very women against women. Come on. I know. I know. Jealous over a man. Come on. Come on. There's also a similar story found in hygienists.
Speaker: where Glaucus, who was like a minor sea god, loved Skyla so much that he wanted to use magic to capture her, like her love or get her attention. So he went to the sorceress Cersei, and Cersei was in love with Glaucus, so again, she flew into a jealous rage.
Speaker: and to get revenge, she used her potion experience or expertise to poison the waters where Skyla lived. Again, poisoning the water turned into a terrible monster. We need some, what did you say, potion expertise? I need some of that. Felicity and I are talking about doing spells, so I think we're getting close. I told her I'll get Syndra's spell later that I think it's working.
Speaker: I've been trying manifesting money for myself. Well, that's what I think it all is. The spell that I'm going to send you, it's literally just thought. It's just doing it in a ritualistic way, which I think is just an intentional way. I like it. I like it. And then there's a later Greek myth where
Speaker: Hercules encounters Skyla during a journey to Sicily and he kills her. Her father, Forkus, applied flaming torches to her body and restored her to life. Can you imagine? Interesting method. Flaming of torches.
Speaker: I really, I don't know how you feel, but I really got into Greek mythology when this was like, when it was our topic at school, like it was like one of my favorite sections. So I'm like, I feel like I should read more Greek mythology because I just, it's so crazy. It's so heightened. It is crazy. And I remember it too. And I, at my school that I teach at the ninth graders, their first, during first semester and whatever, I guess history class, they did Greek mythology and it's all they were talking about. Like they were like,
Speaker: I love it because it's just it's like yeah it's like that it's like a fantasy soap opera like it's so wild.
Speaker: Yes, with all these big personalities. Her main story or most famous Skyla story is when she was first featured in Homer's Odyssey, where Odysseus encounters her and Charybdis. On their journey, Odysseus gets the advice to go closer to Skyla to have a better chance of surviving. They end up losing six sailors to be devoured alive by Skyla.
Speaker: So you must be like, Lauren, why does this relate to Felicia's topic? And the answer is because of what she looks like. So first off, I do have to say when you look at pictures of like any Greek mythology, I am just like very obsessed with all these like full bodied, curvy, natural. Like I was like, it's all these ideal woman. Yes. You had so much money. You could just eat whatever you wanted.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. That's what I want beauty to be again. Me freaking too. So the earliest depiction of her is used in by, you know, is in Homer or written by Homer. So he said she had a crab like shell and 12 feet, six necks sprung from her body with their menacing heads with three rows of teeth. And so it seems in these pictures and there's like another description that I like better, but there's these like
Speaker: necks that are like right around her waist. So it does look like they're like sort of like blocking her vagina. Like protecting her vagina, these like biting heads. And so the picture that I liked the best and the picture that I saw, which is like why I chose her for today is there's this picture where like some version she has like mismatched animal parts.
Speaker: And so she reportedly had 12 tentacles for her legs. And in this picture, she had six dog heads around like basically like low, like it literally looks like I'll show you the picture because it looks like there are like dogs coming out of her badge, to be honest, to be fair. I love that. It's like when you see a tiny girl walking like a big scary dog.
Speaker: Yes, exactly. What's that called? It's like scary dog privilege or something? Or it's like you walk around and not be scared for your life.
Speaker: Honestly, I feel like I need to go. Oh, this is not what I imagined. I imagined her wearing a belt of dogs. I mean, I wish it was a belt of dogs. This is very interesting. It's like more in her anatomy. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Does she pee out of those dogs? I'm not sure. I don't know. That's wild. Really cool picture. But again, I think there's something to say about
Speaker: you know, beautiful top half or you know, a woman on the top half and then all these like scary dogs on the bottom. So there's not too much more about her. You can obviously there's a lot of different like stories that she's featured in.
Speaker: sort of same kind of vibe of like she was, you know, at some point a beautiful goddess or, you know, nymph kind of creature and being transformed into this monster. But I just love this like imagery of like, it does feel like, you know, protecting your female parts, kind of like the teeth and vaginas. And this idea again of like the punishing of women. Yes. Through making them
Speaker: Yeah, I guess a monster in some way. Yeah, ugly. Yeah. Yeah, totally. It's really I just thought she was such a cool like the imagery is so cool. And yeah, imagining like and also like I guess in these stories of like sailors getting too close, it's like, you know, maybe like the tentacles grab them and they get eaten by the dog or the dogs like attack. I'm like that would be a crazy creature to see in a movie sometime.
Speaker: Right? Who's making it? Who's making it? Who's doing it? But I love her and I love Greek mythology. And I was like, oh, maybe this is like uncharted territory. Maybe there's some cool Greek mythology characters to cover. Oh my God. Yes. Why have we never thought of that? That's a great idea. I don't know. And I think there's a lot of like, yeah, like Medusa. I think you maybe did Medusa once. I think I did Medusa. Yeah, I'm positive.
Speaker: Yeah. So I think like in that kind of vein, there's a lot of cool female monsters and creatures. Um, but I liked her and I thought, you know, why not go with, why not? If you can't have teeth in your vagina, why not have, you know, six dog heads? Yeah. Oh my God. That's wild. Well, thank you guys for listening this week.
Speaker: This is I really enjoyed this episode. This was really fun. Me too. I always feel like I do feel like maybe this is our our new thing. I like having topics we can like talk about together. Yeah. And like how they sort of relate to each other, like opens a bigger conversation sometimes. Definitely. But all right. Very good. Very good. Well, we hope you have some sweet, sweet nightmares. Bye.
