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#138: Rachel Robertson: How to recover from injury and build strength that lasts
505 Plays14 days ago
In this episode of the Kate Hamilton Health Podcast, I’m joined by kinesiologist and Pilates specialist Rachel Robertson for a deep, practical, and inspiring conversation on how to move better, feel stronger, and recover smarter.
With over 10 years of experience, Rachel breaks down the real differences between kinesiology and physiotherapy, the power of mindset in the recovery process, and the biggest movement mistakes people make - especially when it comes to squats, hinging, and posture. We also chat about her athletic background, her experience with kettlebell sport and figure skating, and how all of that shapes her approach to rehabilitation and performance.
Whether you're healing from an injury, navigating postpartum changes, or simply trying to move through life with more strength and confidence, this episode is full of practical takeaways.
EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS:
[0:56] What kinesiology is and how it differs from physiotherapy
[4:29] Rachel’s journey from athlete to movement specialist
[9:52] The role of mindset and education in injury recovery
[24:32] Why Pilates is so effective for rehab and strength building
[27:43] The most common movement patterns people struggle with
[32:39] How posture, breath, and motor control affect strength
[37:41] Real talk on postpartum recovery and realistic fitness for moms
[46:39] Simple ways to integrate movement into your busy life
Links & Resources:
- Connect with me on Instagram here
- Connect with Rachel on Instagram here
- Learn more about KHH coaching here
If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with friends who might benefit. For more health and fitness tips, follow me on Instagram and TikTok @katehamiltonhealth.
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Introduction
00:00:08
Speaker
Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of the Kate Hamilton Health Podcast. So in today's episode, I chat with Rachel Robertson. Rachel is a kinesiologist and Pilates specialist with over a decade of experience helping people overcome physical limitations and rebuild trust in their bodies.
00:00:26
Speaker
With a kinesiology degree from the University of Western Ontario and membership in the British Columbia Association of Kinesiologists, Rachel blends science and movement artistry to support injury recovery, sustainable strength and confidence in movement.
00:00:41
Speaker
Her work bridges the gap between rehabilitation and performance, whether returning to daily life, athletic pursuits or simply moving without pain.
Kinesiology vs. Physiotherapy
00:00:50
Speaker
Rachel's own athletic background in figure skating and kettlebell sport has shaped her passion for movement.
00:00:56
Speaker
We talk about kinesiology, what exactly it is. We talk about the difference between kinesiology and physiotherapy. We talk about recovering from injury and, you know, what that process can look like, what it can feel like.
00:01:11
Speaker
We talk about the importance of mindset when it comes to the slow and steady work and process that needs to happen and how important it is for a client to understand it why they're doing exercises that they're doing and movements that they're doing and what the roadmap looks like ahead so that it gives them the hope that they might not be feeling at the time if they're recovering from an injury.
00:01:31
Speaker
We talk around a lot of common movement issues that a lot of people seem to experience what might be causing them or you know if we've got niggly pains in our knees or ankles or hips or backs or whatever what might be causing them and we talk a lot about kind of where we might be stronger and tighter, weaker maybe weaker and tight and you know how we need to learn to either work with someone to figure out what's going on with our bodies and our movement patterns so that we can move better and with less pain.
00:02:00
Speaker
and work on where we need to work on and just in general, tuning in with our own bodies.
Rachel's Personal Injury Experience
00:02:05
Speaker
We talk a lot as well around postpartum, you know, as women, and the kind of recovery that needs to take place in relation to actually rehabilitating from quite a traumatic experience that childbirth or pregnancy and childbirth actually is on the body and how much that can change our posture and what needs to be done in order to to fix that posture.
00:02:25
Speaker
It was a really, really amazing conversation. I think you're going to get so much from it. And I really hope you enjoy it as much as I did.
00:02:36
Speaker
Rachel, welcome to the podcast. Thank you for having me. So it's 6am where you are and at the minute it is 2pm here. So i love I love connecting with people, you know, different time zones. It's like, well, we're other sides of the world.
00:02:48
Speaker
Yeah. Whereabouts are you based? I am on Vancouver Island out of Nanaimo, BC. Wow. So yeah, that's Canada. Yeah. Canada. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. I'm like double checking, testing my geography. So yeah, no, that's so cool.
00:03:02
Speaker
But I'm really excited to talk to you today about the areas that you specialize in. Before we get into it, do you want to just share a little bit about you, what it is that you do, a little bit about your background and we'll take it from there.
00:03:13
Speaker
Yeah, so I'm a kinesiologist. So kinesiology is the study of body movement, human movement. And then I'm a Pilates instructor, and I also do strength and conditioning. So I'm taking those concepts of like proper movement and really applying it to the individuals. So many people come to me for different reasons.
00:03:36
Speaker
I specifically really like to focus on injuries. So there are people who are coming to me because they were in a car accident. Maybe they just have a repetitive work injury, prenatal, postnatal.
00:03:49
Speaker
I've worked with several people during that phase of their life just because exercise is kind of nowadays we're getting better at encouraging women to exercise during that phase of their life. But there's still lots of old wives tales that kind of need to be overcome.
00:04:06
Speaker
And then I've just got people who just don't know how to exercise and want to learn or are nervous or didn't have a great experience and need someone to kind of guide them. So it's just a combination.
00:04:18
Speaker
But the main thing is, is I'm teaching people how to move well and so that they're avoiding injuring themselves or re-injuring themselves and just feeling stronger.
Kettlebell Sport Insights
00:04:28
Speaker
Yeah, amazing. And you have a little bit of an athletic background yourself.
00:04:32
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So I was a figure skater all my life growing up, played some competitive basketball, and then I actually got injured. And part of my recovery, I got into kettlebell sport and then ended up competing at Worlds twice, actually once in Ireland.
00:04:51
Speaker
And the second time I won two gold medals in Seoul, Korea. Amazing. Okay, so talk to me a little bit more about kettlebell sport, because this is new to me. Now, i sorry, I know what kettlebells is. and know kettlebells I know how to you know use kettlebells within workout programming, but what is kettlebell sport? Obviously, you're competing.
00:05:14
Speaker
Is there particular movements that you are <unk> Like, you know, like the way with Olympic weightlifting, you know, you're doing the snatch and the clean and jerk. Like, is there particular movements that you're working in or what way does it work?
00:05:25
Speaker
You nailed it because so we actually do snatch with a kettlebell. So it's sometimes one arm. Now there's a double arm snatch. I personally haven't done the double arm.
00:05:36
Speaker
Then we have clean and jerk, which we call long cycle. And then we also have jerk sets. So we see how many reps we can do in a period of time. And the period of time varies like 5, 10, 30, even 60 minutes.
00:05:51
Speaker
We're kind of divvied into weight classes of the bell as well as bodyweight classes. but we also have a judge. So the judge is sitting there and making sure that you're doing quality reps. So it's not like go as fast as you can.
00:06:06
Speaker
Each rep has to be like a good quality rep for it to count. Like when you get to the international level, it's like there's little nuances, like your arms swinging, like your free arm, if you're doing single arm that they might just not count a single rep.
00:06:23
Speaker
because you didn't realize that you're actually supposed to make your free arm freeze. That was kind of like some learning curves that we all kind of learned as we got like higher up. Yeah, it's the muscular endurance sport.
00:06:36
Speaker
Now, because I said they have 30 and 60 minutes, so half marathon and marathon is getting really big in this sport. I typically do 10-minute sets. And we also do double bells.
00:06:47
Speaker
So it can be single or double. Yeah, like a double kettlebell snatch would not be an easy move to do. I'm like, there's no way I'd be like, I'd look like I was doing like a dive.
00:06:58
Speaker
So it's not like with the Olympic weightlifting, you're doing one rep and for, are you know, you're working up to one rep and you are using a barbell. So you're using kettlebells, obviously, and you're doing it repetitively for a peak. So you we're not talking hugely heavy weights, but I would imagine it It's in you have to complete it within the time at the heaviest weight possible with perfect form. Is that the the objective?
00:07:20
Speaker
Kind of. Yeah. And so like we, for women, we have what we call the amateur weight and then we have the pro weight. So like grassroots, there's a lot more bells in there in between.
00:07:32
Speaker
But when you go to the international level, you just either compete with the 16 or you compete with the 24. Yeah. Yeah. And that depends what you pay with what weight division you're in basically then, is
Recovery and Client Empathy
00:07:46
Speaker
it? Yeah. Yeah.
00:07:47
Speaker
Yeah. Wow. yeah So single snatching a 24 kettlebell over time is going to be, that's going to be taxing my body. Yeah. Yeah. right yeah And figure skating then, that's not something we really have in Ireland. That's a real, you know, lots of like ice skating in general, all that all that we do.
00:08:05
Speaker
for ice skating in Ireland is the rinks appear around Christmas time, you know, where ever you bring the family ice skating and for a little day out and you pay a fortune to just go to the ice skating rink and then they disappear for the rest of the year.
00:08:16
Speaker
Oh, really? Yeah, they just bring in these temporary ones. There's not like, you know I'm sure there are like, but not for the, like the wide public. Like that it's not a thing in Ireland except for at Christmas time. Oh, that's so interesting. I had no idea.
00:08:29
Speaker
Yeah, so it's really interesting. so this was So figure skating, then you're competing on ice with like dancing. is It's a basically like... Yeah, so like what is it? So like there's different styles of figure skating because you have pairs, you have dance, and then you have like individual. So I personally skated individual. So you're doing your jumps and your spins.
00:08:50
Speaker
I still learned like dance and stuff, but you have to have a partner to kind of like move through the ranks with that. And there's not a lot of, at least where I was growing up, there weren't a lot of males to have dance partners or pair partners.
00:09:04
Speaker
But then actually when I was an adult, I did one year of synchronized skating. So that's like 20 people on the ice. and you like got these long lines and the lines are like interchanging and doing these like patterns. It was like really new to me.
00:09:19
Speaker
like My coach would say to me, Rachel, a freestylist stands like this, a synchro skater stands like this, and I would have to like learn to change my body and like hold myself differently because there are those differences between the team sport and the individual.
00:09:35
Speaker
That's fascinating. And so I suppose all of this experience that you have, then you're able to bring to your work. So not only obviously competing at kind of high level, high pressure stuff, you know, that you you would understand the pressures that people can be under if you're working with athletes or even, you know, down to us everyday people.
00:09:52
Speaker
But you had mentioned there that you dealt with injury yourself. So you know what it's like to rehabilitate from an injury and perhaps change goals, I would imagine, along the way as well. And that can be quite a difficult situation.
00:10:05
Speaker
Pale to swallow, I would imagine. Yeah, like actually one of the one of the hardest ones was when I had my oldest child, I got mummy thumb. So like mummy thumb is like when you have like wrist pain from picking up your baby repetitively. It's the action that you go to scoop your baby up and that it's so repetitive and then it's added weight.
00:10:26
Speaker
I couldn't do kettlebells at all during that time. And I was kind of like, what do I do with myself? And my husband challenged me and he was like, you need to look at this differently. Like you need to pick new goals.
00:10:39
Speaker
So I actually, so for a 10 minute set, you typically switch your hand one time. I challenged myself to do the entire set on one arm.
00:10:51
Speaker
which I eventually was able to do with my regular bell. So like what I was competing with, with two hands, I was able to train myself to do it completely on one side.
00:11:01
Speaker
It took me a bit to mentally get there at first, right? In the sense of like, oh, I can look at this differently, which I think is where I have a lot of compassion for like my clients because they'll come in and they're like, my shoulder hurts. I can't do anything. I'm just done.
00:11:20
Speaker
And it's like, okay, if you give me the opportunity to start really small and we build up, I will get you.
00:11:31
Speaker
So let's say they're just like not going to the gym at all. I was like, I can get you back in the gym, but you got to trust the process. We're not going to the gym right now. We'll go to the gym in like six months. I know that's not what you want to hear.
00:11:45
Speaker
But if you do these exercises that I give you and build on it, you're going to be ready to go back to the gym. But you're also going to understand how you're moving and why you're moving because education is a huge component of the the
Navigating Recovery and Therapy
00:12:00
Speaker
process. Because if you don't understand why what you're doing, you're not you're not going to adhere to it.
00:12:04
Speaker
You're just going to be like, oh, what does she know? This is silly. But if i if I explain it to you and make you understand the rational behind the progression and why we're doing what exercise, then you're like, okay, the logic is there to kind of keep to it.
00:12:21
Speaker
I think it's hugely important. important to give people that roadmap and that understanding. that like but It's particularly when it comes to slow rehabilitation work, you know where you're not seeing results quickly. But it actually is kind of the same when you know we're looking at the early stages of health and fitness and fat loss. It's the same thing. you know It takes a while to really see results or even building muscle or whatever your current goal is at the minute.
00:12:46
Speaker
yeah First of all, if you don't understand why you're doing it, you don't understand the importance of doing it. But if you don't, like for me, I know any goals I said, I need to kind of know, like if I'm working with a coach towards something, like what are we working towards? what like What's happening when? And I kind of like to, you know, even it can be very difficult to put a a date on, you'll be back in the gym in six months, like you said, you know, and you I presume you have to be a bit like in about six months, but it gives you, it gives the person a timeframe.
00:13:12
Speaker
So I think having, Like what you've said there are just about, you know, mapping it out with people is just so, so important to be able to feel a little bit of ownership in a situation where you might just feel a little bit helpless.
00:13:23
Speaker
100%. the other thing that they have to know is that just because this is like... Where we think we're going doesn't mean that's going to be what it's going to be. Like sometimes people recover faster and some people it takes longer. Like even myself, I tripped walking to the grocery store and sprained my foot like really bad, like fast.
00:13:47
Speaker
thing is black and blue. It was about two months ago. and my husband did the exact same thing in the exact same spot about a year ago. And his recovery is completely different than mine.
00:14:00
Speaker
Mine is taking a lot longer. and the thing is, is that like little things that we don't foresee affect our healing process, right? Like I'm still waking up in the middle of the night with young children.
00:14:20
Speaker
i have re twisted it since then stepping off a curb. And so all of those things, those kind of affect the healing process. And that's the same for like clients. They have a shoulder injury, they go to work and then they're like,
00:14:35
Speaker
oh, I picked up this object and now I've like aggravated it. And so those nuances don't make it a straight line. They make it up and down kind of curvature and we have to adjust. So sometimes it's just as simple as like, okay, remember what we were doing two weeks ago?
00:14:53
Speaker
We're going go back to that so that we can build back up. Yeah. Yeah. No, that makes so much sense. I think learning that like any journey, whether it's recovery journey, a fat loss journey, a fitness journey, it's never linear.
00:15:10
Speaker
There are always bumps in the road. And, you know, as long as you're youre putting in the the reps, you're doing that consistency, that the ups and downs will go in the in the right direction over time. And I think like the patience that is needed to reach a recovery goal, to reach a fitness goal,
00:15:26
Speaker
it's It's so hard and it's so easy for to be like, you just have to be patient. but But, you know, it can be really hard in the moment, but it it is so, so important. In relation to kinesiology, what is the difference between that and physio?
00:15:38
Speaker
like So I don't do any manual therapy. Physiotherapists are hands-on. There are physiotherapists who just do exercise physiotherapy.
00:15:49
Speaker
They are not much different from me. But those ones are kind of rare and few in between that I know that practice that way. So we can do some soft tissue massage or release.
00:16:03
Speaker
I personally rarely use it because I'm just not someone who's touchy. So it's kind of been this like process for me in the sense of learning to Be hands-on because tactile cues do help the clients.
00:16:25
Speaker
So that has been a challenge or a learning curve for me is like learning like, oh, I can and I should put my hands on the person's rib cage because that helps them know where to breathe or where to relax their shoulders.
00:16:39
Speaker
But outside of like just a touch like that, i don't really touch my clients where a physiotherapist might like manually like... play with the tissues or rotate the body. And and then they use TENS machines and ultrasounds and a shockwave and stuff.
00:16:56
Speaker
So if we were to take someone's journey and they come to you, so I know you mentioned there, you know, that you work with people who've maybe got an injury in a car accident, or you work with people as well who might have like sport injuries, you know, things like that as well.
00:17:09
Speaker
So someone comes to you with an injury, are they responsible referred to you by a doctor? Do they go to a physiotherapist first? Like, do they go to a doctor or a physiotherapist first and then you're the next step? Does this happen instead of physiotherapy?
00:17:21
Speaker
where Or do they go come straight from, I'm injured, I will seek out Rachel, I need kinesiology? and where Where in this order of events does this usually happen?
00:17:33
Speaker
So it kind of depends because here in Canada, kinesiology is not covered, but physiotherapy is. So if the individual has benefits, they're more likely to go to a physiotherapist because it's covered.
00:17:49
Speaker
The physiotherapy clinic, depending on how they're set up, may have a kinesiologist on staff. So they do the manual therapy and then they pass the client on to the kinesiologist afterwards or like it's a kind of simultaneous kind of thing that's occurring.
00:18:06
Speaker
I actually work independently without any other practitioners. I often actually have people come to me and they're like, physio didn't work for me, so I want to try you.
00:18:19
Speaker
and my first question usually is, is did you do the exercises? yeah And usually the answer is no, but to defend the client's they didn't always get the exercises explained to them. They were given exercises, but they're like, how do I do it? Or they did it in the beginning and then they became unsure as time passed.
00:18:41
Speaker
To defend the physiotherapist, they've got a lot more going on in the sense like exercise is a small piece of what they offer. And they've got these other nuances to do where my job is 100% all the exercise.
00:18:58
Speaker
Yes, I love this. ah like because It's funny, if I just take my mother for an example as an example, and she was recovering from an injury and she had to go to a physio. She broke her shoulder is what was. She broke her shoulder. She was out walking and with my dad and she fell and knocked her shoulder off a rock. Thank God it was her shoulder, not her head. you know Anyway, she broke her shoulder. She went down pretty hard and she had to have surgery to have it fixed.
00:19:20
Speaker
And then she had a lot of physio to do. She wasn't able to lift her up arm over her head. So she went to the physio appointments. you know, got the work done, did none of the exercises right at all.
00:19:33
Speaker
But gen like my mum is 67. So this was a few couple of years ago. She was about 65. But to her, she was like, I went to the physio, they did the work and, you know, and then the the homework's not important. was like a lack of understanding that actually it's the consistent work that you that you would do at home that's the most important part.
00:19:49
Speaker
And for her, she could once she was able to reach the washing line, She was okay with that. She didn't care that one arm was here and one arm was there. like right i like but But then I ended up having to do movement work with her in the gym. We we we got on for it. I had to explain to her.
00:20:03
Speaker
It's like, no, this it like those exercises are really, really important. But I think sometimes physiotherapists presume that people know that. And it's not communicated very well that wait, wait, we actually movement is what's most important.
00:20:17
Speaker
Yes. And like the other piece of it too, is like some people just need the accountability. Like when they really like figure out who they are, they're like, I'm not going to do that, but it's better that you know that you're not going to do that.
00:20:35
Speaker
and just admit to it and say, I need to see you one to two times a week and I'm willing to pay for it. Otherwise I'm not gonna do it versus go, yep, yep, yep.
00:20:46
Speaker
And then just like not touch it, right? Like I know that there's a cost factor to this, but the paying someone to hold you accountable and then someone to go over the exercises is so valuable.
00:21:01
Speaker
Yeah. And definitely in this this injury recovery stage, it it replaces the job of ah of a gym or or a personal trainer. It's like you you effectively become a personal trainer that is specifically working on the movement patterns that are needed to recover, I'd imagine.
00:21:17
Speaker
Usually what I describe it to
Integrating Pilates in Kinesiology
00:21:20
Speaker
people is like, I'm the in-between. So you go to your physiotherapist and then you come to me And then I build you so that you can go to the gym and be independent.
00:21:31
Speaker
Yeah. And then if they choose to be here, like the way my business is set up is that they can be here and like just continue. But they also, for those who like to go to the gym, I will design that program for them so that they can go to the gym and be independent. Cause some of them want that.
00:21:51
Speaker
I just wanted to interrupt the podcast for a moment to talk to you a little bit about Kate Hamilton Health online coaching. So we have two coaching options available.
00:22:02
Speaker
We have our elite coaching and we have our group coaching service. Our elite coaching service is bespoke individualized coaching, which will help you to finally break free from diet culture with one-to-one anytime support from your coach and with access to a safe, supportive community.
00:22:21
Speaker
This is a higher ticket coaching option and the coaching is by application only. If you go to my website, KateHamiltonHealth.com, you will be able to apply for elite coaching through there and we will be in touch to organize a call and to get you up and running.
00:22:37
Speaker
In relation to our group coaching, our group coaching starts on the first Monday of every month. When it's full each month, we do close the doors. With the group coaching is about building the habits, body and energy of the healthiest version of yourself and finally make it stick.
00:22:55
Speaker
We include personalized calories and portions, food lists, recipes, meal plan ideas, step goals, home or gym based workouts, depending on what you want, changed every eight weeks.
00:23:09
Speaker
Mindset work, app access. So that's the Kate Hamilton Health app, which will be your hub for everything. Weekly yoga classes, WhatsApp group community, weekly group Q&A with myself, fun challenges, daily habits form, weekly self check-in, fortnightly check-ins with your coach, a library full of lifestyle guides, a library full of lessons, seminars and all of this is updated regularly.
00:23:34
Speaker
We have weekly group Zoom calls with myself and the team, regular guest seminars where we get experts on to talk more to you about different topics that we need experts on for and then we have in-person events twice a year that you will get at a major discount as being a member of the Kate Hamilton Health community.
00:23:53
Speaker
So As I said, this starts the first Monday of every month. If you go to my website, KateHamiltonHealth.com, you will see when the next group coaching intake is starting for you.
00:24:06
Speaker
So we close the doors as soon as that intake is full or the Monday before the group coaching starts. So usually that last Monday of the previous month. So if you head over to KateHamiltonHealth.com, all of that information that I've talked through is on the website.
00:24:22
Speaker
You'll be able to book your spot for the next intake there. And i will chat to you all then.
00:24:32
Speaker
Yeah. Where does Pilates come into this with your practice? So I originally was trained Pilates. Like that was kind of the, what I did while I did my kinesiology degree. And Pilates is really just a form of exercise, like a style.
00:24:50
Speaker
And so that is what I knew. i didn't have a large strength training background at the time. Like I went to the gym and I just kind of did the typical circuit, but I didn't have a lot of knowledge around programming and stuff.
00:25:06
Speaker
And then as I kind of built through my career, i was seeing how strength training wasn't always the route to go.
00:25:18
Speaker
In the sense that the client either was so scared of re-injuring themselves, they just weren't willing, like they're like, nope, I'm gonna get hurt in the gym. Pilates made them feel safe.
00:25:31
Speaker
The other piece of it was like, maybe physically they couldn't move enough to get into the gym. So I kind of also use my Pilates as like a segue.
00:25:42
Speaker
So when they first come in and they're high pain, I try to like teach them the principles of Pilates. So pelvic stability, breath, just overall figuring out how they should move.
00:25:56
Speaker
And then depending on the client, if they really like Pilates, I continue to build them into the Pilates repertoire, where if they're like, no, I eventually want to get into the gym. Then I start taking those Pilates principles and applying them to your basic like squat hinge push pull.
00:26:12
Speaker
Yeah, that makes so much sense. And that will obviously very much depend on the individual. and Totally. What kind of common issues do you find come up a lot with clients, you know, in relation to movement patterns? Like that's where people will be tight. what like what are What are the common issues, if that if you know what I mean?
00:26:33
Speaker
so these days a lot of us sit so we've got rounded upper backs because of that slouching you've got the head forward because of the looking down at our phones and whatnot we've got tight hip flexors again because of the sitting the like forward flexion can kind of cause like weaker abs, lengthened back muscles. So we need to kind of like work the back muscles.
00:27:03
Speaker
We still need to actually strengthen the core. Like that's where people are like, I slouch. Why am I doing crunches? We don't do crunches. We call them ab preps because you're like doing it in neutral and stuff.
00:27:14
Speaker
And it's not as big of a range of motion, but sometimes a muscle can be short and weak. and so we need to lengthen it and strengthen it and so like same with the hip flexors you might do like seated leg lifts where you're lifting your leg up and down to strengthen your hip flexor and it's super challenging but yes it's in a flexed position but it's because in that position we're not strong so we have to
Teaching Movement Patterns
00:27:40
Speaker
kind of like figure out those nuances Yeah. And I find as well, when I used to work with people in person, like, you know, in gym classes and, you know, one-to-one personal training, a lot of people, first of all, cannot squat effectively due to a lot of tightness in different areas that you've mentioned. We can kind of go into depth a bit more of that.
00:28:00
Speaker
But also a lot of people don't know how to hinge. And that's something I've noticed, like teaching a Romanian deadlift, just that hinging pattern in general. For a lot of people, and I don't even mean some people, for a lot of people, if they're new to training at all, it's a very, very difficult concept for some people to to grasp, you know, the pushing of the hips back, the hinging at the hips, keeping the chest up, the shoulders back.
00:28:23
Speaker
And it explains why a lot of people end up with back pain in a way, you know, because when they go to bend, they're they're curving They're not hinging. And the fact that that pattern is it so difficult.
00:28:33
Speaker
i don't know whether you have any thoughts and on the squat and hinge, you know, and things like that. It's just something I really noticed when I was training people in person. Well, and it's so interesting. So like when you look at someone in a hinge pattern, are they keeping their lumbar spine straight?
00:28:50
Speaker
Because what's really interesting is some people will actually curve through their spine to create a hinge pattern versus actually hinge at their hips.
00:29:01
Speaker
And so it's a motor pattern. So it's like teaching them where the movement comes from. So another simple is how people walk or run.
00:29:14
Speaker
their motor pattern in the sense of like the order in which the muscles should fire is out of order. So again, because hip flexors are tight, people will like lead with their knee.
00:29:27
Speaker
It's kind of hard to to explain verbally, at least for myself, where like, if I physically demonstrated it, but they almost like knee forward and then extend their leg.
00:29:39
Speaker
It's a shortening at the hip where we kind of need to open up the hip through the full gait pattern, but its it's the order in which the muscles are firing. So we have to change the order and then they get a greater stride. So it actually shortens their stride is the issue.
00:29:56
Speaker
Where like when we go back to the hinge, they're like curbing in their back versus hinging at their hips. And so it's teaching them, okay, what's occurring first?
00:30:07
Speaker
And then when we compare this to the squat, people will bend at their knees and not hinge at their hips. Right. Yeah. Right. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. These will go right over. They'll cave in or they and they can only get so far down.
00:30:21
Speaker
Yes. And so it's teaching them to reorganize the order that they move. So like I'll say to people in a hinge, hips first, hips first, because even in a deadlift, they'll bend their knees first.
00:30:39
Speaker
So I'm always like hips first, hips first, trying to get them to do it. And then like I have this exercise where they have to hinge and reach their bum back to the wall, trying to get them to keep their back straight so that they're not rounding through their back because they think, oh, I'm bending over and they curve forward and they don't understand the hinge. And we actually will use elastic band and have them stand in a heavy elastic band. So that band pulls their hips back.
00:31:07
Speaker
so that they're kind of forced to fight it and then it helps them learn to move through their hip joint. yeah And what's really interesting around the squat is, so I typically say to people, people know what a squat is.
00:31:20
Speaker
And I'll say, can you just show me a squat? I just want to see, there's no judgment. And what's really interesting I've picked up with females is they do it and they lift their heels.
00:31:31
Speaker
And I'll say to them, Why are you lifting your heels? Like what what makes you do that? Sometimes it's a stiff ankle and and that's fine. Like they're not even aware of it.
00:31:42
Speaker
What I've found is moms, because they're carrying their baby, they lift their heels. i'm I'm assuming it must be a balance thing. Like you're holding your child and then you go to bend up, but they start to lift their heels as they're bending over and squatting several times throughout the day. And then it becomes a habit.
00:32:03
Speaker
And so one time i had a client who, that and I was like, why do you lift your heels? And she was just like, I didn't even know I did it. But she's like, but now that I think of it, this is how I go pick up things off the floor.
00:32:16
Speaker
And then I had a different person that thought that that's how you're supposed to squat. Aren't you supposed to squat with your heels lifted? so it's just interesting, right? And it doesn't make it right or wrong. It's just that those are sometimes the reasons that lead to the injury yeah or the incorrect form or why we can't progress in our weightlifting and whatnot.
00:32:34
Speaker
So it it's changing those nuances and kind of teaching people that, but they just don't know. Yeah, and I think it's so important just like, you know, if someone is in a position to to work with someone to help them to to learn how to move effectively, whether it's a kinesiologist, whether it
Addressing Muscle Imbalances
00:32:50
Speaker
is a personal trainer, depending on the on the person and the goals and and the injuries and what's going on, that just...
00:32:55
Speaker
we that we can Even when I was running for a while and I was like ah getting you know pains in different areas and you know and then working with someone to be like, it's because you're doing this because we're so unaware of our different movement patterns where we're stiff, where we're weak, where we're... it you know And I think it's so important, even if you know you're not in a position to...
00:33:13
Speaker
to pay a trainer or to pay a physio or a kinesiologist, working with a friend who might have a little bit of gym knowledge and you can like you know help each other out about, oh, you're you're moving this way, you know just to help with the actual awareness. like What I've noticed as well, even with a deadlift, let's just say a barbell deadlift, and we go back to that hinging pattern, people think that a deadlift is lifting the barbell up off the ground.
00:33:38
Speaker
with your arms. They think, yo you know, you bend down and you stand up and you pick it up and you pull it up. They think it's pulling the barbell off the ground. And you see them shrug usually. Yeah. And it's like, this is why pet this is why the deadlift gets a bad name, first of all.
00:33:51
Speaker
And this is why people injure their back doing a deadlift. And if people are ego lifting, they're like, oh, I can lift 60 kilos. I can lift 80 kilos, or whatever, you know. And it's like, what and a lot of people don't realize is that a deadlift is actually, it's a hinge pattern, first of all.
00:34:08
Speaker
And it is using your legs. it is It's about pushing your legs away. Your arms are merely cranes with hooks at the end of that are pulling the weight up. It's your legs, your glutes, your hips, your core doing all of the work. Your arms and your back are not doing the work.
00:34:24
Speaker
Yeah, like I often describe like push the floor away. Yeah, exactly. You're going to pull and push the floor away. And then they know to like use their legs. And like sometimes that's really what it comes down to. Like I train other Pilates instructors and I say to them, it is literally saying the same thing.
00:34:46
Speaker
10 different ways. And then still that 10th thing isn't, isn't working. And you're like, okay, how do I get this client to say this? And you're like in your brain trying to create like some creative em imagery.
00:35:00
Speaker
And all of a sudden you're like, Oh, think of how ah book works. hinges and they're like, oh, and you're like, wow, that would not have worked for me, but it worked for that client.
00:35:13
Speaker
but Yeah, exactly. It's finding what works for the person and it's it's just so, so individual. I find as well, I don't know what your thoughts are in this as well, that a lot of females tend to be stronger.
00:35:27
Speaker
like more quad based, like, you know, that their quads tend to be a lot stronger than their hamstrings and glutes. And a lot of women and tend to have like that, like when there's, when there's issues going on with knees or, you know, there's injuries and, you know, it can be tight, tight hip flexors and weak glutes and hamstrings, you know, or if if people, if women take up running and they start getting running injuries,
00:35:49
Speaker
we tend to not have to work too hard at keeping our quads strong, but we're not as we're not using our our hamstrings and our glutes and our everyday body. So unless we're deliberately doing some work to keep them strong, this is what leads to a lot of injury.
00:36:01
Speaker
Well, the other piece for for females is I see a lot of hyperextension in the knees. So when they're standing, they're like locking their knee joints.
00:36:12
Speaker
When we lock a joint, we're not supporting ourselves muscularly. we're supporting ourselves in the joint, which is part of the reason our knees start to bother us. So we start to get tired and then it's easier to lock your joints physically and you don't even feel it versus to physically use your muscles to support you when you're standing.
00:36:34
Speaker
And then the other piece of it is if the individual has gone through perinatal and the weight changes and the shifts, your center of gravity however many times it's occurred, changes forward and back, forward and back, up and down as your body changes.
00:36:56
Speaker
Even with weight gain, our center of gravity shifts. And then that's going to affect and where do we typically take that? Into our pelvis, into our knees, into our feet. And so those nuances are,
00:37:09
Speaker
Change like someone who loses a significant amount of weight, not only do they lose weight, but their center of mass is shifting. And for them, they might actually have to retrain motor patterns to adapt to that change.
00:37:24
Speaker
And what you'll see it in is their posture. Like when they lose weight, you're like, I never knew that you stood that way, but they stood that way because they had to hold their body and now they don't have to hold it exactly like that. And now the posture showing up. So now you have to shift the motor patterns.
00:37:41
Speaker
This is so interesting that you say this because like if I take myself as an example, as a young person, I always did ballet. So I started doing ballet at age three up until I was 18, until I finished school and went off to college.
00:37:54
Speaker
So I did it for 15 years. So my posture was always really good. And then I spent you know went, started growing up or whatever. But after I had kids, I noticed after I had my first kid, actually, my shoulders started to come forward.
00:38:07
Speaker
right Then by the time i had my third kid, like, yeah, my, like I literally, my my whole posture had changed. And it was like you just said, it's just triggered it in me there. I never knew I stood that way. And I'd see photos of myself and I'd be like, that's not how I thought I looked. And that's not how I used to look.
00:38:22
Speaker
And like I, particularly after my third kid, I had gained quite a lot of weight. I had very big boobs as well at the time. yeah, I think then since losing that weight and you know and then obviously boobs shrinking as well, then as you're losing weight, I had to do a lot of work. like you know i And and at the time i was I was doing a lot of CrossFit as well, which was very front heavy.
00:38:44
Speaker
But what I discovered over was really strong on the front and it was curving my shoulders in. So I had to literally spend like the past three years, let's say, really working on building up my back to actually...
00:38:56
Speaker
fix my posture and you know not just my back my whole posterior chain because of that like you just said that center of gravity every whatever way I had nette was now holding myself after after those three pregnancies yes yeah well it's really interesting so in one of my workshops that I run i actually have taken pictures of myself to demonstrate posture analysis and in it I like like call myself out. I'm like, look at this shift of the rib cage.
00:39:24
Speaker
Like, look at like how this shoulder is significantly hiked. And I also
Postpartum Recovery and Exercise
00:39:30
Speaker
compare like front to back because in the front view, you actually don't see it. And then you turn me around and it's like, whoa, look at this posture.
00:39:38
Speaker
But then I also discuss like, Now you have, like, i'm I'm here in front of you to be able to tell you these details, but the details of this person is, this is like six, maybe 12 months postpartum.
00:39:53
Speaker
She has two children. She obviously holds the child on the left side, like, Once you start to get give those details, it's like, oh, you start to see how lifestyle affects the body.
00:40:07
Speaker
Because I know before, what would be really neat is if I really had photos of before children and after children and the significant change in the posture. Because like when I first saw it, because I just like took the photos so that they could go into the slides, I went, oh,
00:40:24
Speaker
Oh, wow. I got work to do. fuck right Gotta go start working that back. girl But I don't know what it's like in Canada, but like in Ireland, postpartum, like rehab is just non-existent.
00:40:39
Speaker
Like you're given a little sheet be like, do your pelvic floor exercises. Like I had my first kid at 23. i I didn't know what a pelvic floor was then back then, you know, it was like, like right. Okay. Yeah. Squeeze.
00:40:50
Speaker
Squeeze. Okay. Yeah. I did two of them. I'm done. You know, like it i and I remember that the midwife say to me, you'll thank me for this when you're 40. And I'm like, I'm like nearly 40 now, you know, I'm like, my God, I'm 40. I really wish I'd done those pelvic floor exercises now, but I just think, you know, as it happened, I obviously got into health and fitness and learned a lot about the body, about movement patterns and, you know, was able to, to work on my own posture and my own physical health and strength.
00:41:16
Speaker
But a lot of people are not in that position and we're just being thrown out of hospitals with two, three, four small kids and, know, a full-time job then or you know or else just a a really busy home and no time or else no resources no like no financial resources to be able to give your body the the physical rehab that it really deserves after what it's been through yeah and so I actually also offer like webinars on prenatal and postnatal but exercising during those phases in the postnatal I actually really encourage exercise like
00:41:52
Speaker
Right from the beginning. Well, it depends. We have to kind of think like, how did the whole process go? But if the individual can gentle movement, because we get told like, don't do anything for six weeks and then go.
00:42:04
Speaker
Right. And, and then the women are like, I need to lose all this weight. It's kind of like, okay, let's get some gentle movement, partially because your body hasn't moved in those planes. Right.
00:42:15
Speaker
the way it can now, and then you want to progressively build. And I actually say that it's a two-year process to recover. And so I actually put together this program and it was based on my kind of journey of how to go through it And it kind of looks like it's like 18 months worth of recovery.
00:42:38
Speaker
But life gets in there in the sense of like, you're too tired and you can't move forward. In the sense of like, you're just not sleeping well and you can't progress the program. There's nothing wrong with that. You keep repeating it because really something that's really not considered.
00:42:58
Speaker
And part of the reason I consider it two years of recovery is the fact that you're not sleeping. You're possibly feeding the child physically.
00:43:09
Speaker
And then you also have all the... recovery of your own body. So recovery is going to take that much longer when you have to factor all those things in.
00:43:21
Speaker
Yeah. And then if you throw in a C-section in there as well, like I look at my my sister has a, has a young baby now he's about 12 weeks old. And it was a real reminder like that, you know, she had a C-section and you know, was it spent a few nights in hospital and then you're just home through expected to look after your baby after major surgery. Um, There's so many factors that are really not taken into consideration. And then, you know, having, she's a two and a half year old at home as well. So it's just, you know, and that's a reality for so many women that that's what it but we're doing. We're trying to recover from major surgery or just major, you know, physical trauma of giving birth vaginally as well. And well, yeah.
00:44:00
Speaker
Sorry, didn't mean to cut you. No, that's basically all I was saying. But like even with a C-section, so they don't have to physically do exercise because, well, one, they really shouldn't. But there's the challenges of the fact that they do have other possible responsibilities and it hurts to move and they don't really have the core strength.
00:44:23
Speaker
So really for a... a C-section, the exercise is breathing. Breathing and feeling their pelvic floor. That's all they need to do is learning to like
00:44:36
Speaker
and feel the expansion of their rib cage, feel their diaphragm, feel their pelvic floor because that's going to take a while because again, just going through the perinatal, your diaphragm doesn't get full range of motion.
00:44:52
Speaker
because it's compressed. yeah So now just taking a deep breath and working on expanding the diaphragm is huge.
Incorporating Movement into Daily Life
00:45:01
Speaker
And I was actually talking to someone recently about this on the podcast, about those connection breaths where you're you know you're yeah you're you're learning to you know expand and breathe all the way down, move your diaphragm, but that your pelvic floor is moving down when your your diaphragm is moving down. And then when you're exhaling and your diaphragm is moving up, that that's when you squeeze and pull ah And so that that's how you do pelvic floor exercises, more which are going to be far more effective than just squeezing like you're pretending that you're stopping yourself weeing, that you're actually using it with the breath.
00:45:33
Speaker
Yes. And then the other piece of that is a lot of people think, Kegels, Kegels, Kegels, I got to contract, contract, can contract. But there are many individuals, male and female, that don't need to contract their pelvic floor. They need to learn to relax the pelvic floor.
00:45:48
Speaker
yeah that's the piece of it, like, Like you said, it goes up with the diaphragm. It comes down with the diaphragm. Some people coming up is not an issue. It's actually going down and actually feeling themselves relaxed.
00:46:01
Speaker
That is the challenge. And so that's where working with your like pelvic floor physiotherapist or any health practitioner is beneficial because then they can integrate that conversation And they can be like, no, this individual needs to relax. And then as the kinesiologist or the personal trainer, when you're doing those connection breaths, you're going to tell them what phase to focus on.
00:46:26
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. Once you've had like a physical examination and you know what's going on in there and you know whether what what needs to be done. Yes, exactly. Yeah. Yeah.
00:46:37
Speaker
This has been so helpful. all at All of this information. Just to finish up, I suppose, if someone listening is like, okay, what should I be doing in general? If we're talking about a normal girl like me or you or or guy, but let's just's focus on the female.
00:46:52
Speaker
A normal mom, let's say, you know maybe has a cup two or three kids, no particularly ah ah serious injuries, maybe a niggly but little bit of a week back, maybe like niggly knees or whatever.
00:47:02
Speaker
you know What should we be doing to look after our body? like what like What would you suggest movement-wise and what's important that we need to start incorporating into our daily life? Anything in particular?
00:47:17
Speaker
So does this individual work out at all? Yeah. So if we're including, yeah. So, you know, this individual like so likes to work out or would like to make time to work out if they're not working out yet, they want to work out.
00:47:29
Speaker
So obviously, you know, apart from the obvious, okay, exercise every week and, you know, move your body, you know, but if we're talking specifically, like if we're talking about like pelvic floor, like, know, breathing exercises, we're talking about particular movement patterns.
00:47:41
Speaker
What do you think needs to be incorporated into everyone's week somewhere, whether it's in their workout program, whether it's in their daily lifestyle something small something big anything that you just you're like we should all be doing this walking yes yes didn't know where to say that i like i think i'm also cautious about that because sometimes people think well i walk so that's enough exercise walking is a starting point but movement in general is is important.
00:48:14
Speaker
So how you move with good quality movement is important, but how you move in the sense of the style or the form doesn't matter.
00:48:24
Speaker
So if it means like sitting on the floor and doing some stretches, great. If it means like doing some exercises with your children, like,
00:48:37
Speaker
We often just have our kids around us as we're working out. Like both me and my husband will go into the gym, we'll say dance party time, and we purposely put on music for the kids so that they just move and then we do what we need to do.
00:48:51
Speaker
I think the the key is finding a way to create movement that works for the household. So some days we're like, let's just go for a hike And the kids like run through the forest and we get our walk in. Now, would it be a walk that we would have gotten pre-children?
00:49:13
Speaker
No, just because the kids don't have the capacity to go that distance. But that's fine. We still got movement in. But we even just like incorporate games.
00:49:24
Speaker
throughout our day, like hide and seek, and then you're running around, right? Like those things are doable. Now, if I wanted someone to do a specific movement, I probably would say a hinge.
00:49:40
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Like just because we all pick things up off the floor, i would probably pick a hinge or a squat and be doing those. The other thing that I often see as people lose their range of motion as they get older, so older populations start to stiffen up slightly.
00:50:03
Speaker
thoracically and can't rotate and side bend with the same ranges of motion as a younger person. So if they were to try to stretch or move, I would suggest controlled rotation and side bending.
00:50:22
Speaker
Notice I said controlled. They're not like whipping themselves because that's where they're going to get injured, but like controlled rotation. turn to one side turn to the other and stretching up and over to the side those things are good for the body Yeah, this is this is amazing advice. And I love that you said that it's about fitting it into your life. And I think that's why a lot of women give up.
00:50:46
Speaker
It's because they're like, i can't do this. I'm too busy. I'm too old. I'm too sore. I'm too stiff. i you know And it's and that and it just it's that gap between the fitness industry and the ordinary person. And you know it's so important that we continue to try and bridge this gap and be like, it's not about being in the gym four or five days a week.
00:51:05
Speaker
looking like a bodybuilder or training like a CrossFit or, you know, it's nothing like that. It's everyday stuff. It can be done at home. It can be done with resistance bands. It can be done with your own body weight. It can be done with dumbbells.
00:51:16
Speaker
If you enjoy going to the gym, like I'm at the age now, my kids, my oldest is 15. I'm 15, 12 and seven. It's like the older one can mind the younger one. I can go to the gym now. It's amazing. Right.
00:51:27
Speaker
You know, all my kids are in school. I get the little time during the day, you know, so that's great. But when my older two were younger, like you said there with bringing your kids down to the gym, I used to have my kitchen floor. i had a set of dumbbells and my own body weight and mat and they grew up watching me work out.
00:51:43
Speaker
Yes. That's amazing. And now they're both really sporty kids. And, you know, I wasn't a sporty kid, but because they've grown up that way and it maybe it's their genetics from their dad as well.
00:51:54
Speaker
but and But, you know, it it is managing what you can and it's finding the love of it. And just it's giving yourself that care, isn't it? And that connection with you. I mean, like I am aware of my body and I'm looking after it in how I can today.
00:52:08
Speaker
Yeah, oh, 100%. And it's like modeling it, right? Like, they just think it's normal. They don't think it's like a have to. yeah Like, it's actually funny, because like my little, my oldest, as she runs around playing, she'd be like,
00:52:23
Speaker
We got to work our body. And I'm like, we we don't say that, but okay. But perfect and but she runs around like, let's go exercise. And like, it's part of her game because she just, she's modeling what she sees, but it's just like curiosity is really what it comes down to. And my youngest kid, I remember him saying, he's like, I go to the playground and you go to the gym. Like he sees the gym as a playground because it's all these things that he'd love to hang from and, you know, run on and all, you know, and it's like, wow, that they see it as like a grown up playground, which are kind of is actually. It is.
00:52:59
Speaker
Yeah, it is our
Conclusion and Contact Information
00:53:00
Speaker
version of a playground. is it Yeah. Rachel, thank you so much for this amazing conversation. I think, you know, there'll be a lot of value for a lot of men and women who listen. and For anyone who would like to reach out to you, find out a little bit more about what it is that you do. and Where is the best place to reach you?
00:53:15
Speaker
They can find me on Instagram at return to form kinesiology. and then I have a website, return to form.ca. and then I just offer like various workshops if people are interested. So like I have the prenatal, postnatal webinars. I do a clinical Pilates. So for any exercise movement practitioners who want to like integrate some Pilates into their training or their like exercise prescription i offer that as well that's amazing I make everyone go and check out what Rachel has to offer there and and thank you so much for everything that you've helped helped and shared today thank you for having me
00:54:03
Speaker
I just want to say thank you so much for listening to the podcast. And i would just ask for one thing from you, if at all possible, could you make sure that you subscribe to the podcast? It really does make such a difference.
00:54:17
Speaker
If there's a particular episode that you've enjoyed, please do share it in your WhatsApp groups, share it on your stories, tag myself and the guest. in your stories. All of these things really do help to grow the podcast. And obviously, if there's anything you'd like to reflect on, please do leave a comment.
00:54:33
Speaker
It would mean the world to me and I will see you on the next one.