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Gender and Sex in Rock Art - Ep 114
651 Plays11 months ago
Gender and sex today are fluid concepts. Is that because it’s a new idea or because it’s finally something that can come out of the shadows? On today’s episode we look at gender and sex in rock art. We challenge preconceived notions that male shamans are the only ones that created rock art. We also talk about gender representation in rock art.
Transcripts
For rough transcripts of this podcast, go to: https://www.archpodnet.com/rockart/114
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Transcript
Introduction to the California Rock Art Foundation
00:00:01
Speaker
You're listening to the Archaeology Podcast Network. Hello out there in archaeology podcast land. This is Dr. Alan Garfinkel. I'm the president and founder of the California Rock Art Foundation. And what we do is we identify, evaluate, manage, and conserve rock art both in Alta, California and in Baja, California.
00:00:21
Speaker
We conduct field trips, we have trainings, exercise, we do research, and in every way possible we try to preserve, protect, and coordinate treasures of Alta and Baja, California rock art, of which there are many, and diverse.
Collaborations with Native Americans
00:00:35
Speaker
We also work closely with Native Americans and partner with them to recognize and protect sacred sites.
00:00:42
Speaker
So for more info about the fabulous California Rock Art Foundation, you can go to carockart.org. Also, I'm open to give me a call, 805-312-2261. We would welcome sponsorship or underwriting helping us to defray the costs of our podcasts and also membership in California Rock Art Foundation. And of course, donations since we are a 501c3 nonprofit scientific and educational corporation.
Podcast Themes and Listener Engagement
00:01:09
Speaker
God bless everyone out there in podcast land.
00:01:16
Speaker
You're listening to the Rock Art Podcast. Join us every week for fascinating tales of rock art, adventure, and archeology. Find our contact info in the show notes and send us your suggestions. Hey out there in Rock Art Podcast Land, this is your host,
Intersection of Sex, Gender, and Rock Art
00:01:38
Speaker
Dr. Alan Garfinkel, and we're going to be doing a show
00:01:42
Speaker
episode 114 with Chris and myself talking about sex, gender, and rock art, both the artisans and the subject matter. This is something we've not talked about before and is central to our understanding of native thought.
00:02:07
Speaker
Welcome to the show, everyone. It's Chris Webster again, your usually producer, sometimes editor and sometimes co-host of this podcast. And today we have another show where it's just Alan and I. So Alan, what are we talking about today? How are you doing? Good, Chris.
00:02:23
Speaker
You know, I was reflecting on what we should talk about today. And one of the topics that we have not brought to bear or really touched upon, I think in any of our former podcasts, of which there's always over 100 now, is the issue of sex slash gender and rock art. And it is something that's near and dear to my heart.
00:02:46
Speaker
And so I thought that would an interesting topic and one that is certainly relevant and hasn't been extensively discussed. How's that? That's awesome. And yeah, I can't remember a time when we did discuss that. Now to set the baseline, are we talking about sex and gender as it pertains to the creation of rock art or to the representation in rock art or both?
00:03:11
Speaker
A little bit of both, and yeah, it's a little bit of both, and relates to the issue of the femaleness, maleness, or genderness of various figures in rock art, and also vis-a-vis the artisans themselves who are responsible for the creation of rock art. How's that?
00:03:42
Speaker
Hmm. Okay. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. All right. Well, where do we start?
Cultural Roles and Gender Fluidity in Rock Art
00:03:47
Speaker
So, uh, let's start with some definitions or some discussions. When we talk about the term gender
00:03:56
Speaker
it's become a topic, you know, very relevant to in our own sort of, you know, discussions in the news and in books and other things. Gender has to do with the roles and references culturally to an individual in our society. And so when we talk about sex,
00:04:26
Speaker
typically, biologically, there's only two of them, male and female. But when you talk about gender, then we have the male and the female, but we also have individuals that bridge
00:04:41
Speaker
both those roles or that transfer or transpose or change their roles into something a bit different. They may have initially been a man but live as a woman or are perceived as a woman and feel called to be a female.
Androcentric Bias in Rock Art Scholarship
00:05:00
Speaker
So I guess we could talk a little bit about all of those and much, much more. To kick this off,
00:05:09
Speaker
What became interesting to me is some of the assertions in the scholarly rock art literature
00:05:21
Speaker
about the artisans and the representations and the function of rock art, be it in the Great Basin or in other areas of the world. It seems to be a very androcentric perspective, meaning a very strong perspective
00:05:41
Speaker
from men. And the individuals who are scholars, certainly of rock art, have been predominantly men, overwhelmingly, and they seem to have a bias, a bias inbred
00:05:59
Speaker
in defining, referencing Brockard imagery from a distinctively male perspective. Have you come across that or is that something that you're familiar with or no?
00:06:14
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. On one of my other shows, the archaeology show, we discuss, you know, news items and archaeology that's making it in the news. And I swear there's been a lot in the past year for sure. But, you know, leading up to this quite a bit, there's been a lot of articles and papers written about
00:06:31
Speaker
Essentially, they had those fantastic headlines like rewriting history and archaeological assumptions challenged and things like that. We shouldn't be surprised by that anymore. We're finding out more and more that what we thought was either a predominantly male or even predominantly female activity, for that matter, just because we look at it and we say, oh, only women do that.
00:06:50
Speaker
at some point in history, dot, dot, dot, they've done it all the time. And then same thing with male, you know, we see factors, an article that is going to be out, I think in a future episode of the archeology show about a stele found in Spain. And they've long held these assumptions that, Oh, well, if it's got like warrior and like, what is it? Uh, weaponry and things like that, that this must be representing a male, but
00:07:15
Speaker
or must be representing a female if it's got, you know, long hair and some other attributes and they've always just assumed, Hey, this is a female. Well, this one is one that they would normally count as female, but it has clear male genitalia. So like, what do you do with that? You know what I mean? This might be part of that gender fluidity. You know what I mean? So we can't assume anything is really what the story is there. And the male bias that's happened in archeology for the last 150 years, it just got to be thrown in the toilet and started over.
00:07:45
Speaker
I would agree. Now, in terms of my own research and something that's near and dear to my heart, I know I've talked about Coso Rock Art ad nauseam, but a number of people have very ardently represented that the rock art of the Cosos represents male shamans who are representing themselves in costume.
00:08:13
Speaker
And this was an exclusively male activity. So I had a woman, an African-American woman, scholar, who got her PhD from the University of Florida.
Feminine Representation in COSO Rock Art
00:08:27
Speaker
name is Marissa Molinar. And she and I worked together for several years on Coso Rock Art and discovered quite the opposite. So when we began to examine this corpus of material relating to the iconography of the Cosos, surprisingly, what we found was an inordinate, a very prevalent expression of
00:08:56
Speaker
the feminine gender, or sex as it were, represented by these individuals who appear to be decorated animal-human figures who are always represented as male shamans. And that's rather important. I mean, it was sort of a revelation on my part, and one that also came out in a book by Carolyn Maddock,
00:09:24
Speaker
who sketched hundreds of these animal human figures and identified them, said she was a student of the COSO genre, these decorated animal human, these anthropomorphs or pattern-bodied figures. She argued that many of them were women. That's at one level interesting. Now, if we take it a step further,
00:09:53
Speaker
What is even more interesting in some ways is if we look at the cosmology, if we look at the way in which the worldview
00:10:05
Speaker
of Native Americans are typically rendered, they aren't exclusively male at all. They look at this worldview as a layered universe. And that layered universe begins with a feminine layer of an earth goddess or earth mother. You've run across that or no?
00:10:30
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, the concept of the, you know, the earth mother or, you know, mother earth, that whole thing is, seems to be pretty prevalent throughout lots of cultures, you know, going back, you know, the popular ones are obviously the Greeks and the, and the, and the Romans with their, you know, Hera and what was the, what was the other name of her? I can't remember, but either way, yeah, that good. This seems to go back to a lot of cultures. So yeah, for sure.
Indigenous Cosmology and Feminine Deities
00:10:52
Speaker
So what, what the basis of that was in part is if we look at the sky world, right?
00:11:01
Speaker
and see that it's populated by the sun, the moon, and the stars. But as we view them moving about the heavens and seeing the transposition of day and night,
00:11:19
Speaker
What seems to occur is that canopy, that celestial canopy, turns and goes into an underworld, okay? And that underworld is the terrestrial realm that we live on, and that it appears again up in the sky. So, it would be natural to have
00:11:47
Speaker
the feminine element appear because it is only through women that we procreate and create life anew. And so if we sort of take an analog or metaphor of what we see in the natural world, it seems logical that this terrestrial realm, this earth mother,
00:12:15
Speaker
would then be of a feminine deity who is creating or birthing on a daily basis the heavenly bodies. Does that make any sense?
00:12:28
Speaker
Yeah, it does. Yeah, because that was a view of Native people, certainly in the indigenous world of California and the Great Basin, but also into the American Southwest and in Mexico as well, that they saw this realm as a creative realm and one that has a feminine inclination. How's that?
00:12:55
Speaker
Right. Okay. Well, I've got a comment on that for sure, but let's do that when we continue on the other side of the break. In the meantime, there are lots of other good shows. I mentioned one of the archeology show in the archeology podcast network. We've got a couple of new ones called and my trial and a T break time travel, which isn't exactly new, but the same host as both of those and check them out. Go to arc pod net.com. We'll be back in a minute.
00:13:19
Speaker
Welcome back to episode 114 of the Rock Art Podcast. We're talking about gender and sex and representation in rock art and all kinds of other things. So one of the things I wanted to talk about, because you're making me think about this right at the end of the last segment, is
00:13:34
Speaker
Again, we make assumptions, right? Sometimes all we have to go on are assumptions. We find a limited amount of information in the archaeological record and we have to infer the rest of it based on either something that we know of the culture, like maybe it's only a couple hundred years ago and we have some written evidence or something like that of behavior, but we also have to take that with a grain of salt because the person who wrote that down had their own biases.
00:13:59
Speaker
And we look at history, though, and we look at what we find through the lens of our own experience and our own surroundings. And I think modern archaeologists probably do that a lot less because we're aware of it. But like you said earlier, archaeologists 40, 50, 60 years ago, even some more recent than that that are just older and keep doing this, are not aware of that. And they just keep making these assumptions and these biases. Because the first assumption is,
00:14:25
Speaker
the division between men and women and the fact that sex and all that is treated like we generally think we treat it, well, I want to say like 80% of people treat it today. Obviously we've got a whole bunch of fluidity and a lot of things going on, but your standard man, woman makes a baby kind of thing. I mean, periodically,
Gendered Symbols in Sun and Moon Depictions
00:14:45
Speaker
people have known that for hundreds of thousands of years, right? That's not a secret, but that doesn't mean that they stuck with that.
00:14:51
Speaker
during all the other times. And representing those relationships in rock art would just be a logical next step. Exactly. And so what I was alluding to was trying to give our listeners a taste of this indigenous cosmology and how that relates to rock art. So when we see these figures,
00:15:18
Speaker
They often possess genitals or genital symbology, so we know that either female or male, and surprisingly enough, it's ubiquitous. It's very, very prevalent in COSO rock art to find females. Now, the other element that's fascinating
00:15:41
Speaker
is when we think about certain classes of celestial objects, the sun and the moon. Well, the sun is always, not always, but often or frequently identified as a male. And the reason for that is because
00:16:00
Speaker
It's a strong, it's a hard, it's an intense energy-producing phenomenon that dries things up and has this phenomenon so that it is a glaring presence.
00:16:21
Speaker
The opposite of that is the moon. And the moon is seen at night in a cooler, more melodious circumstance. And when Native people, this is American Southwest, Mexico, the Great Basin, view the moon,
00:16:42
Speaker
they view it as a female. Now, why would that be? The reason that it's a female is because it goes through various stages when we see it crescent and gibbous and growing, and then vanishing and coming back. So, it appears to be as though it is pregnant and birthing and then going through the cycle all over again.
00:17:09
Speaker
Now, interestingly enough, in Mesoamerican cosmology and rock art, in the American Southwest, amongst the Hope beef, just for one, and then in the Great Basin, there are certainly deities or supernatural beings that are feminine.
00:17:37
Speaker
And those beings are represented
00:17:42
Speaker
with gendered, sexed attributes that tip it away, that show that we're dealing with a supernatural being, because it shows as an animal human figure, and sometimes it even shows the moon, the crescent moon, in association with this feminine figure. Amazing.
00:18:09
Speaker
And that figure, so if we're taking this ethnographically, and we look at what the native people tell us through the traditions, through the sacred narratives, this is a being.
Mesoamerican Feminine Deities and Fertility
00:18:25
Speaker
Well, for instance, if you want to be extreme, if we look at the high cultures of Mexico,
00:18:34
Speaker
They found a 27-ton statue of one of their basic high-culture deities named Koat Likwe. And it's a feminine deity. We know it's a feminine deity because it has breasts.
00:18:50
Speaker
It also is birthing a snake, and it's covered in snakes. Covered, covered, covered in snakes. I don't mean to get off track with this discussion, but snakes figure highly in UtoS second cosmology, both for the Great Basin, the American Southwest, and in the high cultures of Mexico, as you're well aware.
00:19:17
Speaker
a figure that is prominent for a lot of reasons. And it has, you know, a metaphors. So whenever you're thinking about the depiction of an animal, a human, a figure, you have to ask yourself, what are the attributes of that figure? What's the habits and habitats of it? And how can we think about that? And what is that representing to the native mind? And what was it trying to communicate? So
00:19:48
Speaker
That's always helpful. If I get off track on this one, let's jump to the artisans, the people who manufactured rock art and what their sex may have been.
Women as Creators of Rock Art
00:20:03
Speaker
For the longest time, we thought that exclusively these were shamans who were men.
00:20:10
Speaker
But recently we found strong evidence that going back to almost the beginnings of rock art itself, when we had handprints that were manifesting on the walls of dry caves with numbers of 10,000s of years ago,
00:20:33
Speaker
they are exclusively females and young females at that, and they're very strong in that perspective. If you think about it even further, we have ethnographic evidence in Southern California that it was the women, young women, coming of age who ran to rocks and embellished their handprints on those rocks
00:21:03
Speaker
or identified a series of diamond patterns that were representing snakes on those rocks. But they were the artisans, the functional personae
00:21:18
Speaker
who are actually crafting the rock art, not men, but women. So that puts a whole different cast, a whole different sort of genre into our understanding of the meaning function and implication of rock art, doesn't it?
00:21:36
Speaker
No, for sure. I mean, you see, I mean, name the scene and it's probably been depicted in Rockart somewhere in the world, right? I mean, it's not always, like you said, hunting and things like that. So, I mean, it is a lot of the time or it seems like it is, but not all the time. And I think that just goes to say that, you know, like you said, Rockart wasn't exclusive to one gender, for lack of a better word. It wasn't exclusive to that. It was probably inclusive of, you know, just about anybody because it's not, it doesn't take somebody who's particularly strong to do it.
00:22:05
Speaker
And sometimes not even particularly creative to be honest. I mean, some of those shapes, those early shapes are relatively simplistic, right? And just about anybody could have done it
Rock Art as Personal Immortality
00:22:15
Speaker
for whatever reason. And I always thought that the more simplistic ones, the more abstract ones were really, really are the product of like, you know, some sort of ritualistic behavior, right? Because it's representing something. Whereas the ones that are more identifiable figures,
00:22:32
Speaker
Obviously, they can represent some kind of ritual, but they may also just be people putting images that represent them or their tribe or something on the wall because it's prominent and they know it'll stay there forever. So, who knows? Yeah. I've used a set of words to talk about rock art.
00:22:51
Speaker
One of them is representing personal immortality, which is really what we have with Rock Guard. It's a freeze frame of the thoughts and yearnings and passions of a people emblazoning the rocks. And in some cases, having great, great permanence, it can be there for hundreds, thousands of years.
00:23:20
Speaker
and continues to exist in a permanent state, communicating those images to those who came much, much later.
00:23:36
Speaker
Books are cataloged and even if it's not a popular book that had a big run and didn't sell millions of copies or even thousands of copies, it's stored somewhere. The Library of Congress has a record of this book and as long as that sticks around for a little while. It's a legacy. I noticed that I had left the profession for about 20 years or so and came back
00:24:06
Speaker
And the professionals in archaeology, of course, were still arguing over the same topics when I had previously been. And they referenced my work. They were referencing articles and information that I had developed 20 years ago that were germane to the topic. And I said, wow, that's kind of neat.
00:24:31
Speaker
I guess it was good that I wrote it down and then I published it. But it is remarkable that we can have such a legacy and that people can go to the library and see and touch and read and picture.
00:24:48
Speaker
the imagery and verbiage that's emblazoning the pages of these books because it's a monument, a legacy to the people who crafted those original thoughts and words. And they can be hundreds or even thousands of years ago. And so that's, as you say, the modern day rock art is the books and testaments we have to those scholars and individuals who
00:25:17
Speaker
were creative and decided to memorialize their thoughts. And so rock art is certainly that same genre memorializing the thoughts and stories and passions of a people. And that's what's so amazing to me when you view the rock art, because you're seeing it with your eyes, but from their perspective.
00:25:44
Speaker
Right. Okay. Well, with that, we're going to take a break. Hopefully there are some ads or something within the break. Sometimes there are, sometimes there aren't, but it helps us out. In the meantime, go over to arcpadnet.com forward slash members and you can help us out with a membership that gets you membership to our Slack team where we can, you know, you can communicate with other members. We might be moving that over to discord.
00:26:07
Speaker
Either way, it's a place where you can talk to other members and the hosts. Also, we have a whole back catalog, including some of Allen's videos that are available to members at any time you want on our members-only pages. Some of the video stuff that we've done, including some video podcasts, some videos, some live events, things like that. It's all on the pages for any member to see, regardless of when you join.
00:26:29
Speaker
If you're listening to this in the end of 2023, if you buy an annual membership, we'll give you a coupon code and you can gift an annual membership for free. So it's buy one, get one free to a friend or family member of your choice. So we just want more people to be back there and have the conversation. We'd like the support, but we just want more members so we can, again, increase that community. So with that, we'll be back in a minute.
00:26:53
Speaker
Welcome back to the Rock Art Podcast, episode 114. And you know, Alan, we've been talking about the human representation of gender and the people that create the rock art and things like
Assumptions in Gender and Animal Depictions
00:27:04
Speaker
that. But one of the biggest features of rock art, as you alluded to in the last segment, is animals. There's animals all over rock art. They're represented all over the place. And I was wondering about some of the assumptions made regarding animals. And for example, we were talking about this on the break.
00:27:19
Speaker
You know, my assumption is, because this is what I've always heard, is that, you know, female animals are often represented and in conjunction with fertility and things like that. And male animals are often represented, if you can even tell the sex, sometimes you can't, but male animals are often represented in conjunction with hunting and dominance and things like that. So what are your thoughts on all that?
00:27:41
Speaker
Well, let's give you a living, breathing example of sort of the contradiction or conflation, sort of the intersection of the male and female gender in animal representations. So we have the bighorn sheep that appears throughout the Great Basin and also these horned animals that appear literally all over the world. It's a key figure
00:28:08
Speaker
that is represented in rock art, really in many of the major rock art recorded areas all over the globe. So one of the things I learned from a scholar who's interviewed these rock art scholars that are doing work in the Altai and Southeast Asia, in Africa, et cetera, et cetera, all over the place, where there is depictions of these long horned animals.
00:28:38
Speaker
I said, first of all, the long-horned animals often or frequently are always represented with tails. And we thought that to be curious, because when you view some of these huge horned beasts, one of the sort of the least evident
00:28:59
Speaker
attributes or parts of their physiology that you'd want to even bother rendering is a little tail. Their tail is often tucked nicely into their behinds and rarely shows up in any particular fashion when you see the animals. Well, it turns out that those tails
00:29:24
Speaker
are an analog or metaphor for exactly what you've talked about, and that has to do with fertility. The tales are shown in an upward mode, either parallel to the ground or ratcheted up towards the heavens. That was a mystery to me for a long time, and it was discussed at great length in a number of books and articles.
00:29:53
Speaker
And I finally discovered exactly what the story was. When I talked to wildlife biologists about these horned beasts, specifically bighorn sheep and sheep in general, they told me the only time that these animals would have their tails erect
00:30:18
Speaker
is in a posture called flagging. And flagging is the female communicating to the male
00:30:28
Speaker
that they're open for reproduction and have the ability to procreate and produce an animal. So you have this horned beast, but yet we also have the fertility complement, this open introduction regarding this mixture of metaphors. And this happens all over the world.
00:30:55
Speaker
told from Aaron Barnia, who is producing a motion picture called the IBEX code, who interviewed these scholars and said, yeah, well, all over the world we knew that. That's something that's common knowledge amongst experts who study rock art, that that's what's going on. And I said, really? They said, really? Yeah, of course. Why didn't you ask me?
Symbolic Representation of Bighorn Sheep and Gender
00:31:21
Speaker
So it took me a long time to figure that one out, and I had to go around the horn to do so. But that's what's going on, and that's a fascinating sort of intersection between the male and the female, isn't it?
00:31:37
Speaker
Yeah, it really is. And I wonder if, well, to back up a little bit, one of the first, I think maybe the first time I ever saw you speak and ever possibly even met you in person, I'm not really sure though, was at the San Francisco, I think, Society for American Archaeology meeting, something like 10 years ago. And I remember you talking about bighorn sheep at the COSO and this representation with their tails being up. It was very animated. I'll bet. I'll bet.
00:32:07
Speaker
Yeah. Well, it's been a, it's been quite a mystery for a lot of people, but I think we've got that mystery solved. So as well, there seems to be, you know, we've talked about indexical animals and those appear as well. And they of course have metaphors of abundance, metaphors of creativity and creation and fertility all mixed together with both male and female elements. Yeah.
00:32:37
Speaker
part and parcel of that. When we look at these human or animal human figures, they have attributes that will tell you whether they're men or women anatomically.
00:32:51
Speaker
you know, men have penises and the women have feminine genitalia. And the feminine genitalia is sometimes a couple of lines, sometimes it's pendant labia, sometimes it's an inverted V or a V the other way. Also, they show
00:33:11
Speaker
menstruation on females and they show the hair bobs, the famous, you know, Hopi sign of women coming of age and the Princess Leia hairdo that demonstrates they've reached a critical benchmark in their coming of age and now they're able to menstruate and they can get pregnant
00:33:40
Speaker
and are creators of life. And that is all intermingled in rock art. They show that in rock art. They show the hair, they show the menstruation, and they of course show a number of different symbols that are interconnected with anatomically with both human and animal human figures that will show us
00:34:07
Speaker
we're talking about creation, fertility, coming of age rights, all that intermixed. Does that make any sense? Yeah, it really does. It just shows the fluidity of the whole thing. But then also some commonalities with the almost revering of women when they're able to get to that point where they can reproduce.
00:34:31
Speaker
Like I said, almost revered across the world as creators of life. So that's definitely a commonality you see throughout lots of cultures. And that's a good segue because not only men, but women are shamans, ritual adepts who fashion rock art and are recognized as individuals who can
00:35:01
Speaker
reach or communicate and be liaisons with the divine, the divinities, the creator, the supernatural beings in the heavens, as well as connecting to the terrestrial realm and communicating the power and the connections and the healing energy to do just that.
00:35:27
Speaker
And who's better to do that than perhaps a woman who has a more effeminate, sensitive, creative posture than the rough and tough men. Right. All right. Well, any final thoughts to wrap up this topic? Yeah, I think.
Revisiting Rock Art Narratives with Gender Lens
00:35:47
Speaker
And you've mentioned this from the very beginning when we started talking, that we have to go and revisit some of the pivotal sort of perspectives and assertions that are part and parcel of sort of the arcane knowledge regarding rock art.
00:36:05
Speaker
the exclusivity of men, the hunting element as being a major element, and an absence or diminution of the feminine and the representation of women. And so I think it's coming of age and we're returning to a bit of a paradigm shift on that matter. So it's been an interesting dialogue and I thank you for the opportunity to discuss this, Chris.
00:36:31
Speaker
Sounds good. Yeah, this is very interesting. If you've got any questions, hit us up wherever you found this podcast and there's contact information on the show notes. If you can't find that, just go over to arcpodnet.com or archaeologypodcastnetwork.com and look for the rock art podcast logo on the main page there. And then you can go to any show and take a look at the notes and take a look at the links that we have in there. So with that, I think we'll go ahead and say goodbye again, leave comments if you can, and we will see you next time.
00:37:00
Speaker
See you in the flip-flop, gang. Thanks for hatching in. And happy holidays. That's right. Happy holidays. Oh, let me say one more thing. If you're listening to this on the day this comes out, it is the ninth anniversary of the Archaeology Podcast Network. We turned nine on December 1st. So there we go. I just had to throw that in at the last minute. All right.
00:37:27
Speaker
Thanks for listening to the Rock Art Podcast with Dr. Alan Garfinkel and Chris Webster. Find show notes and contact information at www.arcpodnet.com forward slash rock art. Thanks for listening and thanks for sharing this podcast with your family and friends.
00:37:59
Speaker
This episode was produced by Chris Webster from his RV traveling the United States, Tristan Boyle in Scotland, DigTech LLC, Cultural Media, and the Archaeology Podcast Network, and was edited by Rachel Rodin. This has been a presentation of the Archaeology Podcast Network. Visit us on the web for show notes and other podcasts at www.archpodnet.com. Contact us at chris at archaeologypodcastnetwork.com.