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Dance and Cosmology with Jose Botello - Ep 131
212 Plays9 days ago
Dr. Garfinkel brings Jose Botello back on the show to talk about his master’s work at Cal State Northridge. They talk about ceremonial dance, cosmology, and what it means to live and walk the “red road”.
Transcripts
- For rough transcripts of this episode go to https://www.archpodnet.com/rockart/131
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Transcript
00:00:01
Speaker
You're listening to the Archaeology Podcast Network. Hello out there in archaeology podcast land. This is Dr. Alan Garfinkel. I'm the president and founder of the California Rock Art Foundation. And what we do is we identify, evaluate, manage and conserve rock art both in Alta, California and in Baja, California.
00:00:21
Speaker
We conduct field trips, we have trainings, exercise, we do research, and in every way possible we try to preserve, protect, and coordinate treasures of Alta and Baja California rock art, of which there are many, and diverse. We also work closely with Native Americans and partner with them to recognize and protect sacred sites. So for more info about the fabulous California Rock Art Foundation, you can go to carockart.org Also, i'm I'm open to give me a call, 805-312-2261. We would welcome sponsorship or underwriting, ah helping us to defray the costs of our podcasts, and also membership in California Rock Art Foundation, and of course, donations since we are a 501c3 nonprofit scientific and educational corporation. God bless everyone out there in podcast land.
00:01:16
Speaker
You're listening to the Rock Art Podcast. Join us every week for fascinating tales of rock art, adventure, and archaeology. Find our contact info in the show notes and send us your suggestions.
00:01:33
Speaker
Hello out there in archaeology podcast land. This is your host, Dr. Alan Garfinkel, and it's episode 131. Believe it or not, we've been on the air or through the electronic medium for, I believe, close to four years, if not four years already. And way back when, almost about four three or four years ago,
00:01:55
Speaker
We had an interview with Jose Botello and it was rather interesting and intriguing and for so for some cosmic reason I called him up and lo and behold he's finishing up his master's degree at Cal State Northridge and doing extraordinarily well and I thought it important to ah talk to him about his thesis and his adventure in life. Jose, are you here? Yes, I'm here, Dr. Gold. Thank you for having me. Great. Again. Well, the way we kicked this off, as as we did last time, maybe we can bring the ah listeners up on your adventure. Yeah. Life. Yeah. So it's been, well, I want to say what, three, four years since we did our our last recording together, our last interview.
00:02:44
Speaker
How has life changed for you? Oh, life has changed drastically. I have started participating in a ceremonial dance group, the Aztec Mexica dance group for the last few years now. And that has opened a lot of doors with the native and indigenous communities here in Kern County and all around California as well. So I've been ah You know, living living the Red Road, walking the Red Road, as as we like to say now, living as our ancestors did, or trying our best to keep those teachings, that knowledge, and our traditional ways of life. ah So that's something that has drastically changed since our last interview. So you're reconnecting with your ancestors, correct? Yes, that is correct. And you're tapping into the religious theology, and the ceremonies, and the dance, and the music, and the ways of knowledge, and the ways of connecting to the cosmic universe. Exactly, yeah. And and language as well. It's something that we think are traditional languages, yes. so what're So what we're talking about here are the people who who spoke, according to anthropologists, they call this the Nahua, correct?
00:04:01
Speaker
The Nahuatl, yeah. Yeah. Tell us who the Nahuatl are and and what that implies. Well, the Nahuatl are just one specific group of people. The Nahuatl are broken down. ah There are various groups of Nahuatl-speaking can peoples in what we now call Mexico. For example, my ancestors, we were on the western, west central side of Mexico. I was born in a small Pueblo called Masatan.
00:04:29
Speaker
in Nayarib, Mexico, and that was the territory of the Tekoshiki Nahuatl, and they were a Nahuatl-speaking group. Like I said before, there are other many-speaking groups over all over Mexico. were the Were the Maya and the Aztec Nahuats? No, the Maya are a completely different language. But the Aztecs are Nahuatl.
00:04:55
Speaker
Yeah, what we call the aztecs are they yeah that that's the term all with speaker yeah e And I would believe the Huichol are also Nahua, or no? No, they're not considered Nahua, but their language is closely related, and I believe it is, and the the U.S. second language tree. Right. Yeah. So just so we're our listeners can understand, there's a large language group that are ancestrally connected when talking about thousands and thousands of years ago. are they? Yeah, that's a terminology.
00:05:26
Speaker
And they're called the Yuto Aztecans. Do you know a bit about that, Jose? All I know is there's groups up in in California as well, the Tubaro Labo or Yuto Aztecan speaking group. and I want to see what else, what other groups. There was, there was a, so the Udo Aztecans include speakers in Southern California, the Tocquec, and there's the groups all throughout the desert, the far west, throughout the Great Basin, and those are called Numic, and that's a group of Udo Aztecans as well. So distantly, they're all distantly tied together
00:06:03
Speaker
at least in an ancient way, as ah we call linguistically Uto Aztecans. At least that's what the anthropologists call them. Well, yeah, well, like I was saying, my ancestors are from the western, ah west central Mexico, and they um there were that the Tekoskinawat. But most of the the Nahuatl speaking groups, they're they're very closely related. There's different variants of the language, but it's very, very small differences in the language. And you're saying that you've now connected with some of that, and that's even through
00:06:42
Speaker
I guess your connections in Kern County, but also Southern California and perhaps in Mexico itself, no? Yes, that's correct. Through joining a dance group, a ceremonial dance group, which we call the Nahuatl word for that is calpuli, which translates to the gathering of houses. And these are groups now contemporary that that are formed ah usually led by by an elder or elders. And we learn, we teach our ceremonial dances, ah language, songs, traditional medicines, ceremonies and rituals, such as the the sweat lodge, which is now what is called the Mascali. And so with dance, with language, with a ceremony, all of that packaged up, I believe there's a heartfelt religious
00:07:34
Speaker
element to all this. Are there what's called Native American churches or is there some other means of of the establishing the ceremonial realm? I have heard about the Native American church. They're the the peyote practitioners. Yes, but is is your organization or this organization different?
00:07:55
Speaker
I'd say it is different because we don't really consider it a religion. It's more of ah of a way of life. It's living in unity with with the cosmos, with the universe, with with Mother Earth, with all the animals, with all the plants. So tell us tell us a bit of about how you learned about that. and and what those precepts are. And and I guess for the listeners, why I have Jose here, this is an opportunity to learn almost directly from a Native person and from someone actively involved in this, hearkening back to the Indigenous religion and the philosophy and the vision and the worldview.
00:08:35
Speaker
of those people who fashioned rock art in Eastern California and other places that were ancestral Nahua people. Am I correct? Yeah. Yeah. In fact, when I was talking to Jose, what happened to me was I i had mentioned this you know lengthy extended essay or book that I'm writing, which I've been working on for four years, that deals with sort of the religious metaphors of the Nahua and also talks about their imagery, including the cloud snakes that bring the rain. yeah you can I can segue to you now. Yeah, well, i'm I'm still learning. I'm still spending time with my elders and you' always going to keep learning. um You know, you never stop learning. But from what I remember you when we were talking about that, I did recognize
00:09:33
Speaker
the Nahuatl name for the the cloud serpents, and that translates to Mishkoat. So Mishli is cloud. Kowat is snake in our language. I never knew that. I didn't know there was a term for the cloud snakes, and it's Mishli Kowat. I do know that the Kowat, the um but snakes itself, the serpents itself, is a key tether or hallmark connecting these ancient Nahuatl people and their drawings and imagery and religious metaphors, you know, through the up up through the high cultures of Mexico. Yeah. And from my understanding, the Mishkoas, it does represent a lot of different natural phenomenon. One of them would be the Milky Way at night. When you look at the Milky Way, it kind of resembles a snake and it's also cloudy as well. So that's ah one of the the representations of of the Mishkoa.
00:10:29
Speaker
is Is there a belief or have you been taught anything about the Milky Way being a highway for souls as they pass from this world to the next? I have heard it mentioned. a We're still you know learning about that. There's only so much time I get to spend with my elders. Of course. of course let's Let's focus on on the knowledge or how it affected you.
00:10:52
Speaker
psychologically, spiritually, physically, intellectually, and talk about the dance group specifically because I know that's what is in your heart and soul. I believe that's going to be the subject, the central subject of your Master's thesis, correct? Yeah, yeah, that's correct. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So the way it affected me, I mean, I've always been on this journey on this right road. I felt since I, since a kid without even knowing what was been different, I've always had this just knowing this, this feeling of just being connected to, to to the, to the outside world.
00:11:29
Speaker
And being under the tutelage of my mass my teachers, these elders, I have learned to put all these practices and use them in my life. So the way I can, it's just so profound. It's it's so hard to find the words to to to explain my experience, to describe it in the way that it's changed my life. But it's just more of a feeling of knowing and and belonging and being one with with everything, with the universe.
00:12:04
Speaker
So it's so it's some what it what it does is anchor you, both physiologically, psychologically, and supernaturally, psychically, to you, the to the Earth, to all of the natural world, but most importantly, the supernatural world, the celestial kingdom. And and sort of this cosmic worldview is something that was characteristic of indigenous people for thousands of years. Am I correct? Yeah, that is correct. And and that's one of the biggest teachings that I've learned ah so far. My journey is that there is so much more to this world than what we can actually physically see. there' There's definitely things going on in the spiritual realm.
00:12:51
Speaker
There is no such thing as coincidences. Everything happens. It's all synchronicities. And our ancestors knew that. They had that knowledge of that. And I've been i've always called them God incidences because of the the supernatural connection of these parallel circumstances or favorable entrees that occur throughout one's life. Am I correct? Yeah, definitely. Okay, that's a good place to stop. Let's stop for this first segment and pick up this conversation in the next. See you in the flip-flop, gang. Welcome back, gang, to the 131st episode of your rock art podcast. Our guest scholar is Jose Botello. And we were talking about
00:13:34
Speaker
his experiences and perspective on Nahua, indigenous worldview, cosmologies, ceremonialism, and in general, the way in which he now sees the world. Well, let's continue this discussion. What does dance or how does dance interact as an element of your sort of revelatory experience with the Nahua way of seeing?
00:14:00
Speaker
well our dances, they are very carefully choreographed as close to the traditional dances that were saved from from our ancestors. every Every dance, every step, every movement has a meaning. And there are certain times where We do a dance or certain ceremonies where we're supposed to do specific dances.
00:14:33
Speaker
But these dances, they they either represent natural phenomena, they're honor dances, or they're dances that um that try to mimic celestial events as well. So are these dances associated with certain costumes? Costumes or costumes? Costumes, you know, regalia, costumes, et cetera. Oh, regalia, yes, definitely. Why don't you talk talk a bit about that, and then we'll get into the details of the dance. how's that Okay, yeah, we can do that for sure. ah So our regalia, for example, my regalia is very traditional. It's a white cotton pants with a white cotton shirt. And depending on your achievements, your your the amount of work that you have put in within your community, you start earning certain things that you're allowed to wear.
00:15:28
Speaker
on yourself and on your regalia. So, for example, on my regalia, I i earned my traditional Nahuatl name and there was a ceremony that we had to do for that.
00:15:41
Speaker
And on my shirt, I am now allowed to wear my insignia. So my traditional name is Yay Koska Kwautly. And that translates to three collared eagle or three condor. So I am now allowed to wear, let's say, condor feathers or vulture feathers in my regalia as well.
00:16:06
Speaker
There are also certain aspects that come with with receiving and earning your traditional name that go with your regalia as well. So when we get our traditional names, our our elder works with ah with our calendar, our traditional calendar, the Tonalpowali.
00:16:24
Speaker
and We provide our elder with our birth date, the exact time minute that we were born, the day that we were born, if possible, any natural phenomena that occurred on that day, such as rain or wind or anything of sorts. So what I did was I went back and I looked at the almanac when I was born. So for my when I was born, there was nothing, it was just a sunny day. So The elder takes this information and works with their traditional calendar, the Tonalpawali. And according to that information that was given, the elder comes up with a ah list of attributes that we are born with, that everyone is born with. And these attributes demonstrate the types of medicines that that we work with.
00:17:22
Speaker
the types of medicines that we're allowed to work with, characteristics that come with our nature as well. How many different dances do you do? And what are they timed to certain seasons? Are they associated with certain celestial events? Yeah, let's let's let's go there for a moment. OK, so yeah. So there are different dances for different seasons as well. So the harvest season is coming up. And the dances that we would do for the season would be ah like the corn dance. Tlaoli would be one of them.
00:17:54
Speaker
Also, the dance for rain, ah which would be the dance called Tlaloc, or Kiauit. Kiauit is our word for rain as well. So we would perform these dances in order to honor the rain, and I guess you can say call it in as well, and to honor our ancestors, to honor the spirits of nature for for allowing us to to harvest and and to be grateful for for the the blessings or the bounty that that we were able to harvest. Wonderful. So how does ah this all work into the religious or ceremonial cycle that you follow?
00:18:34
Speaker
In other words, which dances do you do? how do What do they represent? Are they difficult to learn? Do any of them have certain animals associated with them or certain celestial events? Is there a winter solstice, summer solstice, et cetera? Many different questions. So the information that that we receive from our elder after we receive after we earn our traditional name It's called a tonalama. And this document of sorts explains in detail all of the dances that that the person who earned the traditional name is supposed to learn and supposed to perform at certain times. So for example, some of the information, a piece of the information that we get in this tonalama is who our our night guardian is, for example. So for mine,
00:19:27
Speaker
According to the day that I was born in the time, my night guardian is the jaguar, the hosselotsi. So that would make me have to learn the dance of the jaguar the to honor my my naal my nawali, that is my night my night guardian. Other dances um the Eagle dance, the Kwaukli, or the Istagh Kwaukli, the white eagle, that's also part of my Maitan Alama, my traditional name. And everyone has different ones. So I have, there's a member in our group, in our Kalpuli, who her traditional name is Yaotin Masak, which translates to little deer warrior. And so she has to learn all of the dances of the deer to honor her ancestral lineage, to honor her her guardians and her spirit protectors.
00:20:15
Speaker
Now, when you dance, do you dance alone or dance in a group? No, we dance in a group. So it's always in a group. It's always in a circle as well. So again, we're always trying to to represent these natural phenomena, so a circle. And we all dance together. We try to maintain as much balance in the circle as well. so Ideally, it would be if there's a male, two males together, we can dance next to each other. So it has to be male, female, male, female, just to keep that that energy, that balance inside of the sacred circle. Okay. Hello out there listeners to the Rock Art Podcast. This is segment three of episode 131 with Jose Botello, our guest scholar. We were talking about the
00:21:04
Speaker
elements of dance and cosmology and seasonality, the metaphor of the animals and the dance. Let's try to pick it up with that, Jose. We're trying to try to explain to them how this is done, why it's done, and then the manner in which its it interacts with the ah universe and celebrates the cosmos. Am I correct, Jose?
00:21:29
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. yeah okay And again, it's all about just honoring honoring these these native phenomenons. I know I keep saying that, repeating that that phrase. But there's when you say honoring the native phenomenon, you mentioned this to me on the phone. Natural. Yeah, natural phenomenon. But as the utilize Tekken's in California and elsewhere,
00:21:52
Speaker
believe there is a phenomenon, an element, a so something intangible that sort of links everything together. They call it puha or buha. The best term we can use is energy, but what's it's much more important than that. It's says it's sort of a ah spiritual or cosmic force.
00:22:16
Speaker
and And this is what is a central concept for this expression, am I right? Yeah, definitely. and Maybe talk a tiny bit about that, if you could. Yeah, and I know for for some of the Nawa, the term for that, for the universe, the all-knowing, the great mystery, everything that is, everything that was, everything that's going to be, the past, the future, and the present,
00:22:44
Speaker
our name for that is impal nemowani in in Moyokani, in Tlokanawake. Easy for you to say, Jose.
00:22:55
Speaker
And what I can say, to that Vanna by me a vowel. So please continue. So that is that is our worldview of what I guess you can call creator, some people call it God, um the universe, is just everything that is. It's an intangible force, correct? It's an intangible thing. Yes, tangible force. And it connects everything. Yes. And do you also believe that even those things that
00:23:27
Speaker
conventional wisdom or the scientific or the Western world, the Cartesian way of thinking that many of these things are inanimate, you would say they're not inanimate. They have this force and are alive. Am I correct or incorrect? Definitely. Everything has energy. Everything is has light energy has has everything has life.
00:23:48
Speaker
Exactly. As sentience and anima. See, yes. It's the trees, the the mountains, the water, the birds, the flowers, the everything and everything. Everything. Everything. The fire, the air, the water, the earth, everything, yes. And so when you dance, you're celebrating or venerating or communicating with this life force.
00:24:12
Speaker
and and invoking the life force. And invoking the life force, okay? Please go on. Yeah, so it all depends on the occasion, the ceremony that we're doing, um the season. I know, traditionally, there were these certain time periods, there were these 13-day cycles or 20-day cycles, according to our Tonalpowali, our calendar.
00:24:36
Speaker
And these cycles guided us and let us know exactly what dances and what ceremonies were to be celebrated. You mentioned Plaloc. And Plaloc, at least from the anthropological way, is ah is a god of rain.
00:24:52
Speaker
So there must have been some sort of a rain dance or a a rain experience or bringing water and life to the world that grows things and lets things proliferate. Am I correct?
00:25:07
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, we wouldn't call it him a deity. No. Tlaloc is just the water, the vertical waters. The vertical water. And that is only the the waters that come from from from the sky. Yes. From the rain. We do have another energy that represents the horizontal waters and that is Chalchiquit Liquit. Okay.
00:25:28
Speaker
And that's the the waters of of lakes, of streams, of rivers. Is there a feminine side to any of this theology? Is there a a Mother Earth? Is there a father-son, or is or is that incorrect? There is, there is. So ah Mother Earth, in our language, would be Tonansin.
00:25:51
Speaker
our venerable mother, Ortonan Tzintlaliko Atlikwe, our venerable earth mother, also called Atlikwe, translates to, she who wears the skirt of circus. Yes, i am I am very, very aware of both Tenansin and Kowatlikwe. Continue, please. And then as far as for the son is Tota Tzintonatyo, which translates to our our venerable grandfather's son.
00:26:20
Speaker
the one who gives us light, the one who gives us energy, the one who gives us heat. Wonderful. So there is that that particular a set of cosmology that interfingers with the dance and the ceremony. when When you dance and you dance together in a circle, do you do this ah in a secluded area? Is it outside? Do you ever show people this dance or is this something done in private? um No, these dances are are public now. I know traditionally they were held as very sacred um and only to be practiced in ceremonial settings. But now, now I mean, there's a certain
00:27:03
Speaker
Times where we are allowed to go and dance at at gatherings or cultural demonstrations as well so and these um cultural demonstrations when you dance this is rather different than that you know rather visually astounding as tech dancers that I'm at least remotely familiar with, with all those feathers and those the sound and this and that, that's not what that's not what you're up to, correct? Yes and no. yes and no Okay, please explain. yes We do wear feathers, but the way that my elders have taught me um is that we earn our feathers, the types of feathers that you wear as well.
00:27:47
Speaker
also um have have significant meaning. um you know We don't just go out there and put on a headdress full of feathers. We don't do that. We are also very mindful, like I said, about the types of feathers that we wear. So, for example, my headdress I'm allowed to wear ah vulture feathers, I'm allowed to wear hawk feathers, eagle feathers, and long pheasant feathers as well. And that again comes with um the knowing of our the artonalama when we earn our traditional name. When you say wear these feathers, is it a headdress or is it individual feathers? Is it a ornate regalia or is it something rather simple?
00:28:27
Speaker
um It is a headdress and our headdress is called a copili. And there are certain times where we're allowed to wear them and there's times where we're not ah when we don't wear them. And i i I mean, it's also a personal choice if you want to wear your headdress or not, you don't have to wear it because these feathers also serve as an antenna.
00:28:49
Speaker
to connect to the cosmos and to connect to all the energies around us. So you're putting antennas on your head. So depending on where we go to dance, ah if it's like a public cultural demonstration, we might not want to have that antenna. We might not want to connect with that much energy.
00:29:05
Speaker
especially if you don't know how to how to work with that energy, how to move that energy. So I am myself personally, I try not to wear my headdress as much. I try to connect without my feathers, but we are and required to wear a red ribbon around our heads. This ribbon in our language is called the Ishkwa Meikak. And um there's ah various The teachings on on on this Daishwameka, the reasons that we wear them, some teachers say that we wear it to protect our our energy centers in our body, so we have that main energy center in our forehead, ah where the pineal gland is.
00:29:49
Speaker
So, and other teachers say that it represents, because there's a certain way to tie ah the knot in the back of your head. you squa make ah And these teachers explain that when we wear it ah around our heads, it represents both the the male and the female. It represents duality and tying it behind your head.
00:30:09
Speaker
It represents the duality and it's yourself, so it's three. So it represents the plus and the minus and the intermediary. It's sort of a... Yes, so it represents duality you as and yourself and yourself as part of part of everything, part of the universe, part of the cosmos, and it allows us to pray. One of the last things I think we can close with, and there's a lot more to say, certainly a lot more to talk about, yeah yeah but... There is an image on the rocks, and I think it's a concept that is relevant to all of this, and it's called the Quinsunk or the um Nahua Olin. The Nahua Olin.
00:30:53
Speaker
the fiveness of the universe or the fiveness of the ah people. do you Do you have that in your in your religion or no? Well, the Nahua'u'llin, the literal translation is the movement of the four directions. So, Nahua'u'llin is the number four, and Olin translates to movement. Yes. So, Nahua'u'llin represents just the movement of the cosmos, the movement of the seasons, the four phases of life, birth, adolescence, adult and death, yeah the four elements as well. Right. Interestingly enough, that particular element, which is an element in the yeah know the Aztec calendar, but also sort of the understanding of the Aztec world, the Nahua world,
00:31:49
Speaker
is one that appears on rock art, certainly in California, eastern California, also the desert west, and features prominently. it's It's normally called an enclosed cross. So it's a cross with a circle around it. And it also represents Venus, the the morning star and the evening star. Have you heard that or no?
00:32:15
Speaker
I have heard something about that. As far as the Venus Star, the Morning Star, I've heard some people say that it's associated with the energy of Quetzalcoatl, which is the the Venus Star, the the bringer of knowledge. Yes, bringer yes. And then the the Morning Star and the Evening Star are seen ah sort of as a, you know, transformation, resurrection, birth, death, life, the spirit, all the above. and And that goes with the duality of ketalkoat, which is the skatli poka, which ah it's what you just said, it's transformation. The skatli poka translates to the smoky obsidian mirror. Yes. Oh my word. Yeah. Yeah.
00:33:01
Speaker
and And that's more of of ah energy that we use to do self-reflection, to do inner work, to do shadow work. and So it's the the duality of Quetzalcoatl.
00:33:15
Speaker
Well, well and everything you said and more has great relevance to our study of the indigenous cosmology, our understanding of animism, shamanism. I call it the Native American prospectivism as well. And this ongoing conversation has been, I'd say, one of the most fascinating podcasts I've had.
00:33:38
Speaker
in the 131 I've done so far. Is there anything you might want to tell our listeners as a um as a signing off, maybe a prayer or something like that? Oh, yeah, I would love to. I can do ah one of the prayers.
00:33:55
Speaker
that I've learned from my elders. This prayer is is to honor our ancestors, to honor in the universe, to and to honor all of our our relatives, our our medicines. And it's in the Nahuatl language, so I can close up by by doing that.
00:34:12
Speaker
yish pansinco impala muwani eat moioanni inlokanaak laocamaio me goodli juanomeiwa laokamati tlá lozín wán chálcíhuá tlíhuá tlíhuá tlíhuá tlíhuá tlíhuá tlíhuá tlíhuá tlíhuá tlíhuá tlíhuá tlíhuá tlíhuá tlíhuá tlíhuá tlíhuá tlíhuá tlíhuá tlíhuá tlíhuá tlíhuá tlíhuá tlíhuá tlíhuá tlíhuá tlíhuá tlíhuá tlíhuá tlíhuá tlíhuá tlíhuá tlíhuá tlíhuá tlíhuá tlíhuá tlíhuá tlíhuá tlíhuá tlíhuá tlíhuá tlíhuá tlíhuá tlíhu
00:34:45
Speaker
Thank you, Dr. Gold. Could you translate that as best ah even briefly? ah Yeah, so it's um thanking the universe, thanking our waters, both vertical or horizontal, thanking Mother Earth, thanking our grandfather's son, our grandmother moon, and thanking all of our relatives around the medicine wheel. Great way to close out. See you listeners on the flip flop. Thanks for tuning in.
00:35:18
Speaker
Thanks for listening to the Rock Art Podcast with Dr. Alan Garfinkel and Chris Webster. Find show notes and contact information at www.arcpodnet dot.com forward slash rock art. Thanks for listening and thanks for sharing this podcast with your family and friends.
00:35:50
Speaker
This episode was produced by Chris Webster from his ah RV traveling the United States, Tristan Boyle in Scotland, DigTech LLC, Cultural Media, and the Archaeology Podcast Network, and was edited by Rachel Rodin. This has been a presentation of the Archaeology Podcast Network. Visit us on the web for show notes and other podcasts at www.archapodnet.com. Contact us at chrisatarchaeologypodcastnetwork.com.