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The Supernatural Gamekeeper with Dr. Richard Chacon - Ep 129
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Today we have our guest scholar, Dr. Richard Chacon, who has just published a remarkable book on supernatural gamekeepers throughout the world. We're going to talk about how that relates to rock art and other related matters in terms of the pre-contact, pre-literate indigenous cosmology.
Transcripts
- For rough transcripts of this episode go to https://www.archpodnet.com/rockart/129
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Transcript
Introduction to Dr. Alan Garfinkel and the California Rock Art Foundation
00:00:01
Speaker
You're listening to the Archaeology Podcast Network. Hello out there in archaeology podcast land. This is Dr. Alan Garfinkel. I'm the president and founder of the California Rock Art Foundation.
Activities and Mission of the California Rock Art Foundation
00:00:12
Speaker
And what we do is we identify, evaluate, manage and conserve rock art both in Alta, California and in Baja, California.
00:00:21
Speaker
We conduct field trips, we have trainings, exercise, we do research, and in every way possible we try to preserve, protect, and coordinate treasures of Alta and Baja California rock art, of which there are many, and diverse. We also work closely with Native Americans and partner with them to recognize and protect sacred sites.
00:00:42
Speaker
So for more info about the fabulous California Rock Art Foundation, you can go to carockart.org. Also, i'm I'm open to give me a call, 805-312-2261. We would welcome sponsorship or underwriting, ah helping us to defray the costs of our podcasts, and also membership in California Rock Art Foundation, and of course, donations since we are a 501c3 nonprofit scientific and educational corporation. God bless everyone out there in podcast land.
Introduction of Guest Dr. Richard Chacon and His Book
00:01:16
Speaker
You're listening to The Rock Art Podcast. Join us every week for fascinating tales of rock art, adventure, and archaeology. Find our contact info in the show notes and send us your suggestions.
00:01:33
Speaker
Howdy out there, this is Dr. Alan Garfinkel for the 129th, 129th episode of your Rock Art Podcast. Today we have guest scholar, Dr. Richard Chacon, who has just published a remarkable book on supernatural gamekeepers throughout the world. And we're going to talk about how that relates to rock art and other related matters in terms of the pre-contact, pre-literate indigenous cosmology. You don't want to miss this. This is the firsthand exposition of shamanism. So Rick, are you there? I'm here.
Understanding Supernatural Gamekeepers and Hunting Success
00:02:10
Speaker
Great. So Rick, tell me a bit about the book and and exactly what is a supernatural game keeper. Yeah, that's like that's a good place to start. The concept of a supernatural game keeper is widespread. There's evidence of it. from ah
00:02:27
Speaker
the ancient peoples of Britain, down to Mesopotamia, through Siberia, the Ainu of Japan, and throughout the Americas. And it's this notion that, and it's again common among foraging peoples, it's this notion that there's a supernatural being that grants hunting success.
00:02:46
Speaker
to an individual as long as that individual follows certain rules and the rules usually are take only what you need. In other words, don't kill just for the sake of killing, but take only what you need and show respect to the animal. And usually that respect involves a proper treatment of the carcass, you know, disposing of the bones properly and so but but that's it in ah in ah in ah in a nutshell that Hunting success, and this is really important, hunting success is absolutely dependent on whether or not a hunter maintains a good relationship with a supernatural gamekeeper. So that's key, and that's all over the world, except for Australia. That's the only place where we have not found it. But other than that, it's ubiquitous.
00:03:32
Speaker
so So how did this project start vis-a-vis the supernatural gamekeeper as a theme?
Influence of Beliefs on Foraging Decisions
00:03:40
Speaker
And why why why supernatural gamekeepers? Why was that selected by you as a theme and a focus for this book? That's a great question because I did my dissertation among the blowgun hunting achwa of the Ecuadorian Amazon. And my research was basically testing optimal foraging theory.
00:04:00
Speaker
And optimal forging theory is very quantitative, very, very quantitative. So I'm out there in the field with my scales so that I can weigh what the hunters are harvesting and my watch so that I know you know how long they're out there so I can you know calculate kilograms per hour of hunting returns. All very scientific, all very quantitative. But I realized early on that all kinds of non-caloric, non-energetic,
00:04:29
Speaker
factors were being taken into consideration when deciding what to hunt and when to hunt and how much to hunt. Things like, for example, if a hunter's wife is about to give birth, that shifts a whole prey choice. they They forego harvesting all kinds of animals. And and that flies in the face of optimal foraging theory. almost Also dreams. Dreams affect hunting or foraging decisions big time, big time.
00:04:57
Speaker
And so I realized that if I am going to understand hunting, I have to dive into their beliefs. Now, don't get me wrong, optimal fortune theory still, in my opinion, is the best predictor of prey choice. Absolutely. But there are some really important exceptions.
00:05:14
Speaker
And to understand those exceptions, you got to delve into the their beliefs. So I kind of stumbled up upon this notion of beliefs affecting foraging decisions. I hope that made sense. Yeah, no, it does very much.
Global Evidence of Supernatural Gamekeeper Myths
00:05:27
Speaker
Give us a ah glimpse of the contributors, perhaps, and there and the ge and the geography and the subject matter encompassed in the supernatural Gamekeeper volume.
00:05:39
Speaker
Well, you know, before I do that, let me back up and then I'll explain why. so please why did yeah Give him a background. All right. I was out in the forest with my closest friend, a guy named Kaisar, who was a blowgun hunter. And he starts talking about how he mentioned this supernatural being called Amasan. Amasan. And he said, Amasan.
00:05:58
Speaker
is the owner of meat his words the owner of meat the owner owner of all wild game oh tell me more and so he explained that amazon this supernatural being who roams throughout the forest with the magical blowgun and when he's first of all he said amazon loves us us being the achwa amazon loves the achwa and he sees how we suffer And that's important to understand because this is not sport hunting. This is subsistence hunting. It's very ah grueling and it is very dangerous. So it's not, it's not playing games. It's not sport hunting. So he, he loves us. He sees how we suffer and he takes pity on us. And if we have lived by his rules, by, and again, his rules are take on what you need and be respectful of the game, then he, with his magical blowgun will shoot at an animal.
00:06:48
Speaker
and it's a magical blowgun so he never misses and then that will allow the hunter to bag an animal. And so I you know i thought, oh, what't what an interesting myth. So I dutifully record it and put it away. And then a couple of years later, I find i find versions of the exact same myth, say, in a neighboring Amazonian group. I thought, OK, that's interesting. But then I find really similar versions among North American groups and groups in the Arctic and then the Ainu and then Siberia. And it just snowballed. And I go, oh, my gosh, this is all over the world. And then I thought, OK.
00:07:25
Speaker
As far as I know, i mean anthropologists have dutifully recorded versions of this myth and this belief wherever they encounter it, but there's been relatively little attempts at bringing them all together and trying to make sense out of them, except for two. There's just two examples. A guy named Hulkranz that I'm sure you're familiar with, in 1961,
00:07:46
Speaker
he I think he did it in Sweden and actually brought brought together specialists from North America and from Europe and had sort of like a little mini symposium and he presented their papers of the very variations of the supernatural gamekeeper. And so it was a start, but it was very small in number and there was no attempt to test any theory or to make sense of it.
00:08:09
Speaker
But there was a massive work done by Slotten in 1966 dissertation. and It is a tour de force. This guy just compiled example after example of belief in supernatural gamekeepers from every continent, except Australia and Antarctica. And it's it's a wonderful source, but it's marred by the fact that he is looking at the data through the lens of of culture circle theory, which is very problematic. but But those two were pretty much it as far as compiling examples. So I said, OK, no, I'm going to call you know really look for people that are top notch.
00:08:54
Speaker
and the representative of the world, and I got them. And of course, you are among the group that took my invitation, and I'm very grateful to you. So it was key that we had a group that's at least a representative case from every continent, again, except Australia and Antarctica.
Connection Between Rock Art and Supernatural Gamekeepers
00:09:13
Speaker
But one of the themes of in terms of my reading and understanding of my own work came from reading ethnographies that talk about the relationship of the shamans use yeah and the use of you know psychoactive substances and also their ah depictions, their renditions of this being and also relating to rock art. Does this show up anywhere in your work?
00:09:45
Speaker
Well, the that's another reason why I decided to take this on and I invited you in particular is that, you know, rock arts all over the world and there's a lot of guessing as to trying to figure out what does this rock art mean. But in in this volume, the people that I invited that dealt with wal rock art were people that had really solid, solid ethnographic data.
00:10:12
Speaker
linking that rock art with supernatural gamekeepers. And that's why I invited you to to talk about your group that's in the Tehajapi, the Kaiwe Zoo. And then I also invited a data die that talks about the southeast and there's this massive boulder in North Carolina that was in Cherokee territory. It's called Huda Kula Rock. It's massive and there's and it's it's it's where the supernatural gamekeeper called Huda Kula stepped on it and you can see his feet sort of in in the steotype. And so the the chapters that have rock art in the in the volume, they have absolutely unequivocal ties to Supernatural Gamekeeper. Oh, and there's one more, the famous Tukano of Columbia, in which there's a panel in a river. There's a panel that the Indians say that's where the master of fish lives. And this is not our interpretation. That's what the Indians themselves say. So
00:11:06
Speaker
So it's really important that we included examples of rock art with absolutely irrefutable evidence that those designs on the rock art have to do with Supernatural Gamekeeper. Which which is rather amazing in that kind of association.
00:11:25
Speaker
sort of goes against some of the alternative explanations for the function and meaning and, you know, how how to best understand rock art, doesn't it? Yeah, well, you know, you and I have had lengthy discussions about this, and rock art can have more than one function. And and and we're not saying that all rock art has to do with supernatural gamekeepers, that would be absurd.
00:11:47
Speaker
how You know, rock art obviously can be used by shamans for puberty rights and vision quests, and we're certainly not denying that. One thing that's really important that I want to acknowledge from the get-go is that just because a rock art panel has an image of an animal, it would be ridiculous to assume that that animal image has something to do with hunting magic. That would be absurd.
00:12:12
Speaker
just because there's an animal symbol that could be there for all kinds of reasons, and from
Role of Shamans in Hunting Rituals
00:12:18
Speaker
you know puberty rights to rain magic. It could be all over the place. So we have to be very careful just because there's an animal depicted in a rock art not to have this knee-jerk reaction or knee-jerk interpretation that it it has something to do with hunting magic. But the cases that we included, as as I said, the Chicano of Columbia, the Kawasu of California, and the Cherokee
00:12:43
Speaker
Who the Kula? There's no doubt. There's no doubt. And that's not some anthropologist's spin or interpretation. The native peoples themselves say it's it's all about the supernatural campkeeper. So that's why I feel really, really good about the rock art, the chapters associated with rock art in the in the you know in the book.
00:13:03
Speaker
How does the supernatural gamekeeper integrate with the overarching cosmology of preliterate people, of foraging people? How does that how does that work? how does that Where does that particular deity or supramundane being fit in in all of that? And what sort of ceremonies or other activities are directly or indirectly related to that individual?
00:13:30
Speaker
Oh, I love that question. Well, ah for example, among the Tucano and among the Lake Atitlan Maya and among the Embedah of Colombia, if you're a hunter, you you have to go through the shaman. So the answer is all of these things are related and the shamans play a critical role in serving as intermediaries between the hunter and the supernatural gamekeeper.
00:13:57
Speaker
Help me understand again, who the shaman is and how that, how that articulates, because you're saying something very, very important about the shaman in their role. The shaman plays among those groups that I mentioned, Lake Atitlan Maya, the Emperor of Colombia, the Tucano, ah also of Colombia. You don't just wake up one day and decide to go hunting. You have to go through all kinds of, you as a hunter, you have to ritually purify, engage in sexual abstinence, and then you go to the shaman and you say, I wish to hunt. And then he will perform all kinds of rituals. Among the emberab, he'll chat with a bunch of staffs, sort of magical staffs. But the point is you you lay your request upon the shaman, among the lake Atitlan, via you. You and the shaman and your hunting dog will go to a shrine where the supernatural gamekeeper resides. and And the shaman then will present your petition for you.
00:14:54
Speaker
And then the shaman will receive feedback by way of a dream or an intuition. And for example, let's say you're in Lake Atitlan, subsistence hunter, and then the shaman will say, OK, only one red deer for you. Your neighbor may be more fortunate in a dream. That neighbor may be allotted two deer. OK, great. So then you take off and you hunt. But among the Lake Atitlan Maya, you curate the bones, you you save the bones, and then you bring them back to the sanctuary of the supernatural gamekeeper. And of course, and you do this by way of the shaman, and the shaman then presents it, presents the bones from the animal that you killed. And again, you always stay within your quota to to prove to the supernatural gamekeeper that you have behaved properly, that you have not taken more than what you were allotted, and all is well. So the the point is in some of these folks, ah some of these people, the shamans play and roles as intermediaries,
00:15:53
Speaker
for ah for shamanic for for hunting. Now, not all, but many do. And so the intermediary, of course, is an intermediary between the cosmic or celestial super mundane beings. Yeah. And the terrestrial commoners and the shaman has the ability to sort of bridge those worlds. Am I correct? Yes. And shamans have great, great influence. For example, among the Achoa and among just about every just about every group in the Americas.
00:16:24
Speaker
shamans are believed to have the ability to hide wildlife. And in fact, ah scarcity, gain you know, I've documented over harvesting of natural resources that by that I mean certain species of game in the Amazon. oh And it's due to over hunting. But when I ask the Achoa, why is it that in in almost a decade of doing research in the in this village, I've never seen you guys take a taper, I've never seen you guys harvest a
00:16:55
Speaker
spider monkey, I've never seen you folks harvest a white lit peccary. And by the way, all of those are indicator species, you know, they're the first ones to go when an area is depleted. By the way, you see lots of sign of those animals that I just mentioned, we are about 14-15 kilometers away from the village, right right but but but nothing close to the village. when i When I asked them why is it they don't say over hunting, they say sorcerer.
00:17:21
Speaker
source rate shit Let me stop there and let's pick up that discussion in the next segment. See you in the flip-flop, gang. Welcome back, gang. This is Dr. Alan Garfinkel, your host for today with Dr. Rick Chacon, and we're talking about supernatural game keepers. That's the central topic of a new book. Rick, on the first segment we were talking about the issue of the shaman hiding perhaps the animals from our hunters. Could you please explain that a little bit more in detail?
00:18:01
Speaker
Yes, this is when I, when I asked the Achoa of Alto, Korea to the village that I do work, these I do take my dissertation in. And these are subsistence hunters. they These are people that they're not involved in the bush for meat trade. They're trying to feed their families. When I try to add, when I asked them to explain why is that certain species are just nowhere to be found close to the village, they say sorcery, evil sorcery.
00:18:26
Speaker
they hide animals hide they hide animals. Okay. The hind animals, they wish to hurt us. And then I asked, I can just imagine the look on my face. so And he says, and my closest friend, Kaiser, he's the one who told me about Amazon in the first place, explained it to me using terms and examples that I could understand. And he said, you know how whites or mestizos can move cattle from one corral to another at will. I said, yeah, so it is with shamans. By way of of a certain chance, they can move wildlife, toucans, monkeys, peccaries from one area to another, just by way of magical chance to harm people with the same ease. And he added, and they hide animals underground, physically underground, and they're underground. They're fed by the hoori hoori spirits that are sort of at the beck and call of Amazon.
00:19:19
Speaker
So, and and then they're put in the ground and they're covered with vegetation and a termite nest. So, game scarcity is never explained by over hunting. It's always attributed to either sorcery or to some hunter breaking the rules, the proper protocols of how to how to navigate that were set by Amazon. It is never, traditionally, it is never due to over hunting. In fact, native peoples, and this has been recorded by Emory and Brown, as well as David Dye, myself, and and several other people. Shep Kreck also documented this, that traditionally native peoples did not think that hunting had any effect at all at local wildlife populations. In fact, the Lake Atitlan Maya laughed at Kitty Emory and Linda Brown when they suggested that they were over hunting
00:20:14
Speaker
a local deer, they say. yeah couldn't It couldn't happen. It was impossible. We found that. Ridiculous. yeah Now, let let me ask one one related question. Is the cosmological realm of these indigenous in South America, do they have the belief that these animals are in essence, immortal, that their souls go to these supernatural gamekeepers, and then they're refurbished or transmogrified, and appear again, emanating out of portals. Is that true or untrue? and That is just another juicy topic. Well, this is why like, for example, in the salmon in the north, it's so important to treat the salmon bones with great respect. And it depends on the group too. So salmon but need to be put in the river and there they will be
00:21:01
Speaker
supernaturally regenerated.
Indigenous Beliefs on Animal Souls and Gamekeeping
00:21:02
Speaker
Yes. now It depends on the tribe, but but in many cases, the animals will automatically regenerate as long as everything is done properly. I see. Among the Cree, that belief is so strong that I think Brightman is his name who recorded this, among the Boreal Forest Cree of Canada. The quote was, not only did he these folks believe that hunting had no effect on wildlife, but they believe that the more you kill, the more animals will be available. Wow. Wow. As long as you follow that proper approach. The more you kill, there'll be more animals. And that's not a spin on some anthropologist, and that's not my claim. That's probably- No, no, that's right from New York. In my chapter, I even can cite the quote, and that's something that was said to him, to his face.
00:21:55
Speaker
And so and this is critical, this is critical, especially when it comes time to trying to help Native groups deal with the onslaught of the Western world because they're they're going to get hit there. They are getting hit really hard. And one of the first things that stresses them out is food shortages. Of course, they're operating with this with this belief system in that hunting has no effect on local wildlife.
00:22:20
Speaker
they're ill-equipped to deal with the food shortages, that is if they remain as subsistence hunters. Right. So that so that that would sort of sort of contradict, you know, you would have a significant resource depression, as it's called, if you were over hunting, or if you sort of affected the ah demography of the animals, correct?
00:22:44
Speaker
Well, yeah, it will hamper their ability to deal with food shortage if they believe that hunting has no effect on wildlife. They just you know keep hunting. Right. And this is of critical, critical importance. But also anthropologists and archaeologists, for that matter, for the longest time, thought that you know the preliterate societies, foraging would certainly be unable to affect the demographics of animals. yeah and when i kind of And when I kind of naively thought about that with Bighorn, I said, how could they possibly have affected you know the numbers and character, the demographics on such an animal?
00:23:24
Speaker
Well, the the archaeological data and the ethnographic studies have shown, and Craig has shown this, and my research has shown that native peoples using traditional technology are very capable of impacting the environment and transforming landscapes, and in some cases, not always causing environmental degradation. But that's not always the case, but don't be surprised when it does happen.
00:23:48
Speaker
but but the among the Achoa, I was very concerned about what I saw, you know, certain species are becoming depleted, but not all other species are ah apparently are being taken at rates that are sustainable. And I have things like accoutes, which are like jungle rodents. And I'm not the first one to notice that. Yeah. Well, the people like Alvard have shown that so. And it's because certain jungle rodents are attracted to gardens.
Adaptation to Environmental Changes in Indigenous Hunting
00:24:18
Speaker
So you might, as a matter of fact, you might find certain jungle rodents at higher densities near a population than out in the pristine forest, quote unquote. But here's what I'm so concerned about, say like a group like the Atua. Prior to pacification, there used to be quite a lot of warfare in this area, the pastas of province of Ecuador. Prior to pacification, obviously during war, people die, and prior to pacification,
00:24:45
Speaker
You don't have, say, the Western presence of medical doctors. Once once the Atwar were pacified, warfare was completely stopped, then life expectancy goes up, they have better access to medicine, if infant mortality goes down. So that means there's more Atwar. That's something that I am happy. Yeah, I'm happy. But the problem is the land base of the Atwar is not expanding while the population is.
00:25:13
Speaker
And the Achoa are still operating with this mindset that what determines the outcome of hunts is a good relationship with Amazon. And so this is very problematic. Now, in the old days, when they would deplete an area, they simply moved to a non-hunted area up to a you know to an unoccupied area. That's how they would solve that problem in the past. That's no longer ah it's no longer feasible because the government of ecuador of Ecuador has granted title to the local watershed for each group and that's good. They can no longer be run off the land. And there's and there's more people. But yeah, there's more people and they they're no longer free to pick up and move and start right over again. So they find themselves in a situation that they've never been in before.
00:25:58
Speaker
Now they have to figure out what do we what do they do in light of declining ah hunting returns. And the old explanation that served them fine in the past is is not conducive to dealing with this in a healthy way because the belief is hunting has no effect on wildlife populations and that can really get to Trump. so So would they not do what's called prey switching? Would they not go to a to smaller game animals? My gosh, that's fantastic. I did from from the village, you know, your typical village hunt, are you?
00:26:36
Speaker
quintessential central place forage. And every day they go out and hunt, probably, I would say, they never hunt more than 10 kilometers away from the village, maybe 12 or so, then they come back. And they do this every day. And so it goes without saying that within the and sphere,
00:26:59
Speaker
you're you're not getting those higher rank prey items like tapirs and lots of monkeys and all that. They switch to lower ranked, less desirable prey when they're in the village. Why? It's because the really higher ranked, more desirable prey have been hunted out. yeah But the Ochoar, this is really interesting, with the Ochoar, when they have a big festival.
00:27:19
Speaker
They invite other villages other villages to come and spend like a week with them and you don't want to run out of food when you're hosting a village. That would be really embarrassing. So they will have an extended hunt. They move way, way out. It's usually 13 kilometers away from the village. I know because I had GPS fixes on these sure hunting. So they go 13 kilometers away from their village and and that will put them into a non-hunted, non-depleted areas.
00:27:47
Speaker
and that's when you see a switch in prey choice. in that Then they can get bigger gain. and Those higher ranked prey items, as predicted by optimal foraging theory, and they they might take some smaller animals, but they're they are preferentially targeting those larger prey species. And and they they and they know what they see. That's why we go out there because there's lots of woolly monkeys and and delicious animals. I'm getting hungry just thinking about them. Now, i I remember that there was some articles written and you've alluded to the fact that there are either shrines or shelters in which they preferentially curate the bones of the hunted animals. Tell me a bit about that.
00:28:29
Speaker
Yeah, that's the Lake Atitlan Maya and that's work that Emery and Brown have done. And I just hats off to them. I have nothing but admiration for them. But there are these rock outcrops, rock outcrops among the Lake Atitlan Maya. And there the hunters are really into deer. these are these are These are deer to be consumed, not to be sold on the push trade. And as I said, if you and I are a Lake Atitlan Maya hunters and we want to kill a deer, we don't just wake up one day and decide to go hunting. but but we go and we ask a shaman and then you know the shaman walks you through that ritual that I just mentioned right and even your hunting dog has to attend there you go the the purification rituals and all that so you get a quota you get a quota fine you let's say you got you were allocated two deer I got an allocated three fine so we we kill our animal and we treat the bones with respect but then we guard the bones we we hang on to the bones and then we
00:29:24
Speaker
return the bones and and all of your bones I forget how many you were allocated three anyway so you have the bones of all three individuals I had the bones of two whatever the amount was and we give them to the shaman and then he shows them to the supernatural gamekeeper and then he will place them in the crests in the yes shrine and so Linda Brown and Kitty Emery had gotten permission from the Lake Alkema to go through that entire cache of bones. And some of them are several meters thick. I mean, it's just so amazing. And they noticed a very disturbing trend that the deer get younger and younger. ah The average age of deer being taken gets younger and younger and younger. That's not sustainable.
00:30:16
Speaker
That's very problematic. It means that you don't want to pick off your juveniles. You want to let them live and reproduce. So that's a sign of stress, of population stress. And this is when they both went and talked to the Lake Atitlamaya, who they absolutely have the utmost respect and they really love the Lake Atitlamaya. You can sense it just from talking with them.
00:30:43
Speaker
and they brought them to put them together in a meeting and in a very respectful and not accusatory way. They they didn't say like, Hey, you guys, you know, they said, you know, we're very concerned because if this trend continues, you're going to run out of deer. And that's when they kind of kind of woke up. She was gu third got their attention. they They put, you know, instead of saying, Oh my gosh, this they thought that was actually laughed. They said, that's impossible, because what determines success is not not skill or anything that is supernatural gamekeepers. And we're doing everything we were we're supposed to do, you know, we're, we're staying with it. And so this is a big problem. And do you see how the this whole belief of super, supernatural gamekeepers is part of what's called traditional ecological knowledge, EK,
00:31:35
Speaker
And, you know, the fact that the supernatural gamekeepers are putting limits on prey harvesting, that will supplement sustainable harvest. I will fully acknowledge that.
Traditional Ecological Knowledge and Sustainable Practices
00:31:48
Speaker
So the presence of ah the belief in supernatural gamekeepers, i.e. a form of TEK, is conducive to sustainable harvest. Absolutely. However, and this is what my research has shown, and this is what David Dye has shown, that Once the Western world comes in, the the presence, the maintenance, the adherence to TEK can actually foster non-sustainable harvest. With that, let's ah move on to the next segment. See you in the flip-flop, gang. Welcome back, gang. This is third and final segment for your
00:32:26
Speaker
episode 129 of your Rock Art podcast. We're here today talking about supernatural game keepers with Dr. Rick Chacon. And during the last segment, we were talking about some of the confounding issues regarding resource depression, dealing with ah perhaps over hunting, and somehow understanding what the explanatory platform would be to sort of wrap our minds around that.
00:32:54
Speaker
And Rick, you were saying there's there's some a bit of a controversy surrounding all of this. Am I correct? Yes. Yes, yes. And for example, you know, native peoples are supposed to be quintessential stewards of nature. And people will say, well, why would native peoples deplete the beaver harvest that we know happened during the fur trade? And why did native people say of the South North America just devastate the local whitetail deer population?
00:33:22
Speaker
you know, which that was done by the native people. Well, there's research out there when a guy named Calvin Martin put forth this this notion that the reason why native peoples overharvest natural resources, be they beaver or white-tailed deer. Well, he said there's two reasons, but mainly, they took up Christianity which basically means they apostatized. That was his words. They apostatized. They gave up their traditional beliefs. And I would say they lost their TEK. That's how I would put it. And and many people run with that. But but the problem is there's there's much more there's a much more parsimonious explanation. All of those people, whether they be beaver trav trappers or southeastern Indians, are operating with the supernatural gamekeeper concept.
00:34:14
Speaker
And that means if I keep my part of the deal, wildlife will will, it's guaranteed. And what's the deal? Take only what you need and be respectful of the carcass. That's it. That's all you have to do. Well, if you are a native person, say in the Southeast, say in the 1700s, it says take only what you need, right? Right. But 1700s, you need a gun, you need a firearm. Why? The Arabs are coming down and they are just ravaging the communities. You better have a gun or you'll end up dead or enslaved. It's just not pretty. So your needs have changed. Your needs have changed, but you need a gun. but You're not blamed. So that means now that you have to harvest more deer, but more than just for subsistence, you need deer to get a gun because you want to stay alive or stay free.
00:35:04
Speaker
So, but you're keeping your part of the bargain. You're only taking what you need, but the number of deer that which is needed now has grown exponentially because where do you get guns you get if you traded for whites. And at this time, we're talking about the British. So you see how the needs increase the needs change. But the native peoples are so are are operating within their framework. In other words, they can look themselves in the mirror and say, we not violated any, our part of the supernatural contract. Right, right. And we're disposing of the bones properly, everything should be fine. Correct. That's the same way that our colleague talked about the tori straight and the dugong. Ah, yes, yes, yes, yes, exactly. But the point here is
00:35:51
Speaker
it was adherence to the TEK of the group. It's adherence it's ah it's an adherence to their indigenous cosmology. so it has it has to It has to do with their expectations and their traditions. Now, archaeologically, for instance, in the Kosos and elsewhere, there are, you know,
00:36:13
Speaker
quite compelling examples of what we feel to be resource depression or the over-exploitation of large game. yeah i mean And that's been so in the Southwest, that's been in and Eastern California. And if there's a relationship to that phenomenon and the ah indigenous activities, ceremonial activities relating to the need to increase them and ask for the favor because they felt they were falling out of favor perhaps with the supernatural gamekeeper. Wouldn't that be correct? it It's a very plausible scenario.
00:36:58
Speaker
and And I want to jump on what you just said, that please this hero this is true for not not only the example that you mentioned, but i wanted I'd like to go back to the Dugan of the Torres Strait that Shelly Tilly, formerly last name was Raven. Boy, her dissertation is unbelievable in that as Dugans, these giant sea cows, these giant manatees are extremely difficult to to capture, extremely difficult to capture.
00:37:27
Speaker
And so only a handful of men have the knowledge and the courage to take these things. And it's not that they're going to get into a fight with the dugong, but to spear a dugong, you have to basically almost jump on it and like with your whole body weight, you got to slam the spear in. And that's when you you have the great potential of getting your feet tangled up in the in the cord because the spears are are tied or tethered. And so only the most courageous men will bring these dugongs.
00:37:56
Speaker
and As dugans become rare, the scarcity is attributed to failure on the part of hunters to follow certain proper rituals. There's a place where you should display the skulls of dugans.
00:38:12
Speaker
because there's a supernatural gatekeeper. Our shamans are not as powerful as they used to be. We don't have as many of them. and yeah and so And young people are not acting as properly. And so all these things are supernatural causes for the dugans to decline. But this is what's really important. As these high rank prey species decline,
00:38:33
Speaker
when somebody kills them, their status go the right, right, right, right to the rule. Yeah, yeah. And so what happens is then guys, you know, guys are interested in, you know, climbing the social ladder, especially of course. Yeah. no Even if they may end up wasting more energy and capturing and a particular species, it may be worth it because of the payoffs, the status payoffs, it might even have reproductive payoffs. So even though From a caloric standpoint, it's been not a best strategy. may me By that, I mean they may have expended more calories in bringing this animal home. But you know when they do show up, since it's such a rare animal and since it's such a highly prized animal like the dugong, they're greeted almost like with a ticker-take parade. They are just heroes. And so it more than makes up for the energy net loss.
00:39:27
Speaker
for that it and And that would also encompass political power, influence you know in terms of accessing certain you know elements of their culture, and also attracting the the most prestigious and beautiful brides that would be available within their group.
00:39:46
Speaker
and and and which which is which is not so different from our current culture with the politics and and power and status.
00:39:57
Speaker
status Status is an aphrodisiac. Then the quest for status will put pressure on species that are already ah stressed out and so you can see how status hunting can be conducive to depletion. Which may have been as true in pre-contact times as as it as it was in the ethnographic present and in terms of the documentation of indigenous cultures today. So but what we're trying to do is figure out some way to accommodate those precarious nature of living with that kind of cosmological nexus, right?
00:40:39
Speaker
Yeah, and and one of the things, I'm not a development anthropologist, but if I if I was, I'd be really concerned about these young males who are wanting to go up the the social ladder. But and the means, the traditional means of doing it was, you know, become a great warrior, become a great shaman, a great trader, somebody who brings in objects that are not available locally, become a great hunter. But when those options are no longer viable in that, you know, warfare is the your group is pacified, warfare is no longer allowed, and your hunting choices are getting tougher and tougher, what's a young man to do? So I think in those cases, development workers should really work at providing alternative pathways by which males can move. For recognition. for Yeah. that That are not
00:41:30
Speaker
destructive to the environment because you know they're they're going to want to move up. So we have to come up with ways, alternative pathways in which they can feel good about themselves, where they can grow and and develop their talents in ways that don't deplete the environment.
00:41:44
Speaker
that That would have positive economic implications. Exactly. Exactly. And that they, you know, it's a win-win situation. They get there the status that's desired and the community gets the benefits from their efforts because, you know, these are young guys, they're smart guys. They have a lot of energy. We want it to be used in ways that benefit not just them, but the entire group. So the so the issues the issues we're dealing with, though, are cultural longevity and sustainability.
Impact of Indigenous Practices on Wildlife and Cultural Longevity
00:42:14
Speaker
Sustainability is key. I want native peoples to be around for forever. and For that to happen, we this is um permit me to get on my soapbox for a moment. If we want native peoples to be around, and i i that's my goal number one, the most important thing to do is issue the romantic notions that they are innate conservationists. It's not going to help in any way. That may make people feel good at home.
00:42:44
Speaker
But it's going to do absolutely no good for people that are dealing with reality. And by reality, I mean they have a limited land base, their numbers are growing, the local wildlife population is not growing exponentially. That's a demographic time bomb that's going to hit. And so I like to deal in reality. And so I want to come help them come up with real world solutions in the now to deal with that. and and And for example, among the Invera of Colombia, they're in this place called Utria National Park. And the National Park people there really saw that they were going for this demographic train wreck because they also were causing food, wildlife depletion. and So they put together a potential long-term plan that involved
00:43:35
Speaker
no kill zones. In other words, the whole hunting territory was sort of divided. Oh, okay. let's Let's here's a no kill zone, but let's rotate this. And so that was something that was proposed. And like, that, that is something that is not that hard to to to start. But whatever you do, and this is key, it must be community based, it cannot be imposed from outside that native stakeholders have to be brought in And they need to be consulted at every stage so that it's their solution, not some solution being imposed by outsiders. Because if you do that, that's doomed to failure. Plus, it's very unethical. So you have to bring in the stakeholders. Yes. And you bring in the shamans. You bring in the shamans. And that's what the folks at Utria National Park did. They actually brought in the shamans because these shamans have tremendous status in the community.
00:44:30
Speaker
and And then the the shamans were playing a role in deciding what areas would be the know the the no, no-kill zone. So those are the kinds of things that can be done that shows great respect for the culture, but shows ah the communitybased because that because that's the key to success. The Native peoples have to be part. They need to be consulted at every stage. Nothing should be imposed. And then hopefully, you hope for the best, but you you want to avoid what's known, you don't want to create what's known as conservation refugees. and did Dawi in 2009 wrote about this and it's the dark secret of of conservation. I'm a conservationist, but there's some conservationists that believe the way you solve preserve wildlife is by taking out all the people that are within striking distance of the
00:45:23
Speaker
species that's vulnerable. And the problem when you do that is, well, what about the native groups that that's their homeland that you're talking about? Right. Right. Of course. You know, like I say, I'm for biodiversity. I'm for the preservation of wildlife. Absolutely. But I'm also poor human. You know, if you if you're kill killing the golden goose, right? Yeah. And you're and you're and you're saving the the ah the animals. What good is it?
00:45:50
Speaker
Yeah. And like, I so get it in that, you know, my, I so want for there to be high biodiversity. Absolutely. But when you kick native peoples out, you really, you're trying to do a very good thing, but in a very bad way. And there are much better ways of doing it. And there's lots of success stories out there of native peoples not being kicked out, not turned into conservation refugees, to use Dowie's term.
00:46:18
Speaker
but rather they are embraced by the park people and they are part of the solution. And that's what's happening now among the Dugan hunters that Shelley Tilly writes about. now Because think about this, a native group, native hunters, they know that territory like the bats of their hands. I mean, they the grew up there They know the area, they know the animals' wildlife. Who better than to be a park ranger? Absolutely. And I i think with that with that thought, we shall say a fond adieu. Oh, OK. I hope to take this up at a future date, because i I had fun. Well, you talked about a possibility of ah of a part two, and that's that's still on the table. Thank you listeners, and thank you to Dr. Rick Chaconne for a fabulously interesting
00:47:10
Speaker
podcast. Thanks for the invitation. It's been an honor. God bless.
00:47:21
Speaker
Thanks for listening to the rock art podcast with Dr. Alan Garfinkel and Chris Webster. Find show notes and contact information at www.arcpodnet dot.com forward slash rock art. Thanks for listening and thanks for sharing this podcast with your family and friends.
00:47:53
Speaker
This episode was produced by Chris Webster from his ah RV traveling the United States, Tristan Boyle in Scotland, DigTech LLC, Cultural Media, and the Archaeology Podcast Network, and was edited by Rachel Rodin. This has been a presentation of the Archaeology Podcast Network. Visit us on the web for show notes and other podcasts at www.archapodnet.com. Contact us at chrisatarchaeologypodcastnetwork.com.