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ABLE Voices Ep 73: Gaelynn Lea
16 Plays10 months ago
We are inviting disabled artists and arts educators to be guests and guest hosts on ABLE Voices. Today's guest host is Rivky Grossman.
Rivky’s musical career took off last year, with the writing and recording of her first Album-EP, Angel Sings the Blues. Raised in Brooklyn, New York, Rivky's music combines unique beat structure, a folksy blues style, and the influence of her Hassidic culture upbringing. Rivky's work has been compared to Jacques Brel, Laura Nyro, Billy Joel, Sara McLachlan, and early Regina Spektor. A self-taught musician, Rivky lives with Schizo-affective disorder, which, she says, plays like a fuzzy, backdrop hum in her day to day routine and ignites her creative spark. Today, Rivky will be speaking with Gaelynn Lea.
Since winning NPR Music's Tiny Desk Contest in 2016, Gaelynn Lea has captivated audiences around the world with her haunting original songs and traditional fiddle tunes. Over the years, she has collaborated with artists such as Michael Stipe, The Decemberists, and the industrial rock supergroup Pigface. In 2022, Gaelynn Lea composed the original score for Macbeth on Broadway, starring Daniel Craig and Ruth Negga. Thanks to a recent Whippoorwill Arts Fellowship, her soundtrack is set to be released in Spring 2025; a Music from Macbeth UK album tour will follow soon after. Gaelynn Lea is a sought-after public speaker about accessibility in the arts. She has been featured on PBS NewsHour, On Being with Krista Tippett, The Moth Radio Hour, The Science of Happiness Podcast, and via two widely-viewed TEDx Talks. In 2024, Gaelynn was awarded the prestigious Disability Futures Fellowship from the Ford and Mellon Foundations, which spotlights the work of disabled creatives across disciplines. One of Gaelynn Lea's biggest passions is promoting Disability Culture. To that end, she co-founded RAMPD [Recording Artists and Music Professionals with Disabilities] with NYC-based recording artist Lachi in early 2022. The mission of this fast-growing global network of disabled music professionals is to amplify Disability Culture, promote equitable inclusion & advocate for accessibility in the music industry.
The ABLE Voices podcast is produced and edited by BIAAE Operations Coordinator, Daniel Martinez del Campo. The introduction music was written by Kai Levin and the ending song was written by Sebastian Batista. Kai and Sebastian are students in the Arts Education Programs at the Berklee Institute for Accessible Arts Education.
For more information about our programs visit us at https://college.berklee.edu/BIAAE
Follow us for more weekly updates at:
Instagram: @BIAAE
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/BIAAE
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Transcript
Introduction to Able Voices Podcast
00:00:07
Speaker
Hello everyone and welcome to the Able Voices Podcast.
00:00:17
Speaker
I'm Dr. Rhoda Bernard, founding managing director of the Berklee Institute for Accessible Arts Education and the assistant chair of the Music Education Department at Berklee College of Music.
Guest Host: Rivki Grossman
00:00:28
Speaker
And I am proud to present this podcast featuring disabled artists and arts educators.
00:00:34
Speaker
We are inviting artists with disabilities to be guest hosts for the Able Voices podcast.
00:00:39
Speaker
Today's guest host is Rivki Grossman.
00:00:42
Speaker
Rivki is a New York City based singer songwriter, recipient of the New York Arts Grant,
00:00:48
Speaker
has been nominated for the IMEA Awards and has been selected for the New York Musical Theater's top female finalists in 2022.
00:00:58
Speaker
Her song, Hear Me Honey, was produced by Grammy-winning Amy Lee of Evanescence.
00:01:05
Speaker
Rivki's music has appeared on PBS's Mysteries of Mental Illness.
Rivki's Career in Music
00:01:10
Speaker
Her career jump-started composing for Off-Broadway, meeting her friend and cellist Brian Saunders, releasing their first album, inviting them to the Kennedy Center, and Stages featuring Suzanne Vega.
00:01:24
Speaker
Other projects include co-creating a musical currently in development with playwright Vincent Grappelli.
00:01:30
Speaker
Rivki currently hosts Melody Left Behind, celebrating performers living with schizophrenia, psychosis,
00:01:38
Speaker
autism and those who experience the stage just a little differently, pushing the boundary to welcome more neurodiverse inclusion on mainstream music stages, which often doesn't exist for a unique artist.
Identity and Advocacy as a Disabled Artist
00:01:56
Speaker
Hi there everyone and welcome to the Able Voices Podcast.
00:01:59
Speaker
I'm your guest host today and my name is Rivki.
00:02:01
Speaker
My pronouns are she, they, I'm queer, non-binary, light-skinned with auburn short hair, beautifully flabby around my tummy and hips.
00:02:10
Speaker
And yeah, so thanks so much for joining us as we continue to celebrate and spotlight disabled artists.
00:02:16
Speaker
I'm a disabled artist myself, and I'll be speaking with disabled artists.
Introducing Galen Lee
00:02:21
Speaker
And today on our segment, I'll be introducing you to Galen Lee.
00:02:26
Speaker
Galen Lee won NPR Music's Tiny Desk Contest in 2016, and she's been on the road ever since playing her unique mix of haunting original songs and traditional fiddle tunes.
00:02:36
Speaker
In addition to performing and recording, Galen also does speaking engagements about disability, finding inner freedom, and the power of music.
00:02:43
Speaker
Galen has a congenital disability called
00:02:46
Speaker
osteogenesis imperfecta, or brittle bones disease.
00:02:50
Speaker
In recent years, she has used her music as a platform to advocate for people with disabilities and to promote positive social change.
00:02:58
Speaker
Gayle and Lee has also been featured on PBS NewsHour, on Being with Krista Tippett, the Moth Radio Hour, the Science of Happiness podcast, and via two widely viewed TEDx talks.
00:03:08
Speaker
And over the years, she has collaborated and performed with many notable artists, such as Michael Stipe,
00:03:14
Speaker
From Rem, R.E.M., The Decemberists, Wilco, and the industrial rock supergroup Pigface, in 2022, Gaylon Lee composed and recorded the original score for Macbeth on Broadway, starring Daniel Craig and Ruth Nega, thanks to a recent Whippoorwill Arts Fellowship.
00:03:33
Speaker
Her theatrically inspired soundtrack is set to be released in spring of 2025.
00:03:39
Speaker
A tour for this new album, Music for Macbeth, will take place in the UK soon afterwards.
00:03:44
Speaker
And in 2023, Gayling Lee co-acted and sang in a new musical fable for the stage with disabled storyteller Kevin Kling, and their show Invisible Fences premiered at Open Eye Theater.
00:03:55
Speaker
This fantastical music-filled production touches on disability, identity, and the stories we tell ourselves.
00:04:01
Speaker
Invisible Fences will be revived in November 2024 at Zeitgeist Theater in Duluth, Minnesota.
Galen's Musical Journey and Adaptations
00:04:07
Speaker
And Galen Lee now is currently working, actually currently writing a book or rather finished a book, I think, about her touring adventures and disability advocacy called Linger in the Sun.
00:04:16
Speaker
And Linger in the Sun will be a love letter to everybody, a warm, funny, and deeply felt memoir about disability, music, and the messy creativity of an artist's life.
00:04:26
Speaker
Okay, Galen, hi.
00:04:27
Speaker
Welcome to our show.
00:04:29
Speaker
Thanks for the introduction.
00:04:31
Speaker
Beautiful, beautiful, long, long, beautiful, very detailed.
00:04:36
Speaker
There's a lot to get through, and I don't know how much time we'll have, but we're so glad to have you.
00:04:40
Speaker
Yeah, it's really nice to be here.
00:04:42
Speaker
I'm Galen Lee.
00:04:43
Speaker
I am a short, white woman sitting in an electric wheelchair with a flower dress and long brown hair, and she, her pronouns, and from Duluth, Minnesota.
00:04:56
Speaker
So that's where I am right now.
00:04:59
Speaker
Is it freezing there?
00:04:59
Speaker
Because it's cold in New York City.
00:05:02
Speaker
Yeah, it's been, right now, I think it's maybe not as bad, but we had weeks of like zero degrees in
00:05:10
Speaker
And in Duluth, we're a few months away from spring still.
00:05:13
Speaker
So it's not going to warm up for a while here.
00:05:17
Speaker
So tell us about how you got your start.
00:05:19
Speaker
How did you get to where you are today?
00:05:22
Speaker
Well, my very beginnings was...
00:05:26
Speaker
In public school orchestra in fifth grade, I saw an orchestra play and I really wanted to do it.
00:05:34
Speaker
And luckily, the teacher was open minded and kind of helped me find a new method.
00:05:39
Speaker
So I play my violin because my arms and legs are shorter.
00:05:44
Speaker
I play my violin like a cello.
00:05:46
Speaker
So I did that through high school, not really thinking that music would be my career.
00:05:50
Speaker
It was just something I really loved to do.
00:05:52
Speaker
but as I aged, I started performing and writing my own music and really loving that.
00:05:59
Speaker
And I realized I did want to do music for a career.
00:06:02
Speaker
So I taught fiddle lessons for three years, kind of modified the way I teach for, um, students who played the regular quote unquote way.
00:06:12
Speaker
And I still played like a cello, but it worked.
00:06:14
Speaker
We were able to communicate and, um,
00:06:17
Speaker
taught maybe 15 students of all ages for a couple of years.
00:06:21
Speaker
And then I won the tiny desk contest, which really changed things.
00:06:25
Speaker
I was performing a lot.
00:06:27
Speaker
I mean, many times a month, you know, very frequently, but it was all in like Northern Minnesota, basically.
00:06:33
Speaker
So that my first experience with touring wasn't until
00:06:36
Speaker
the tiny desk and then things kind of evolved from there.
00:06:39
Speaker
And I decided to do it full time in part out of practicality, like my husband needs to travel with me because of my disability, I can't travel by myself.
00:06:49
Speaker
And so instead of having it be like a different personal care attendant for every trip, and that would have been a pretty nightmarish to coordinate on my end when I could be going with my husband.
00:07:00
Speaker
So he actually quit his job and started traveling with me.
00:07:04
Speaker
So then we
00:07:05
Speaker
kind of made that both of our careers, I guess, you know, which kind of a big change in 2016.
00:07:13
Speaker
And that's sort of how it's been ever since.
00:07:16
Speaker
Wow.
00:07:16
Speaker
Yeah, actually, I had a question about that, about your support system in place.
00:07:20
Speaker
But you know what, maybe I'll come back around to that a little bit later.
00:07:23
Speaker
Because yeah, that's just such an important part of also for people who deal with disabilities.
00:07:27
Speaker
And that's something that I've dealt with as well, like through the years.
00:07:29
Speaker
And I'm just like, how do people do it on their own?
00:07:31
Speaker
Like nobody ever talks about it, because we're like living in a culture that always like prides themselves on like independent, being independent.
00:07:37
Speaker
And so, you know, it's just such an important aspect.
00:07:40
Speaker
And to hear that, you know, you have your husband, you
00:07:43
Speaker
who's been by your side as, you know, sort of like the solid partnership is really incredible.
00:07:47
Speaker
Yeah, we're very, I'm very lucky.
00:07:49
Speaker
I mean, yeah, we'll definitely come back to that because I think that's under discussed massively.
00:07:53
Speaker
Yes, yes.
00:07:55
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:56
Speaker
You know, I think I read in one of those articles, I think it was by the National Endowment for the Arts, where you shared about how you first started playing the violin, like a cello, as you had mentioned earlier, to try to modify the instrument due to your disability and that
00:08:11
Speaker
like a teacher had said to you something like, you know, let's work out a way for you to play.
00:08:15
Speaker
And then some folks, you said that some folks find that to be so inspiring and yet you offer a different view, you know, by saying that, you know, as remarkable as it is, it shouldn't be.
00:08:25
Speaker
And you said, like, I try to, you know, talk to teachers about this whenever I can.
00:08:29
Speaker
And I think some people think of music and disability as only music therapy, which is, you know, something that I personally also came across.
00:08:36
Speaker
which is really a misguided way to look at it.
00:08:39
Speaker
But there are so many other reasons.
00:08:41
Speaker
Yeah, sorry, go ahead.
00:08:42
Speaker
No, I'm disagreeing.
00:08:45
Speaker
You share that view.
00:08:46
Speaker
That's good to know.
00:08:47
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:08:49
Speaker
So can you tell us about your experiences as a person with a disability and as an artist with a disability?
Galen's Perspective on Disability and Music
00:08:54
Speaker
And if you're comfortable also sharing a little bit more about how you can help us to understand what exactly is osteogenesis imperfecta?
00:09:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:09:05
Speaker
So my experience with disability, you know, everybody's is unique and there's no one way to like end up processing how your disability affects you.
00:09:16
Speaker
But for me, I was born with my disability.
00:09:19
Speaker
I've always had it.
00:09:21
Speaker
I was really fortunate to be in a super supportive household.
00:09:25
Speaker
I mean, where my parents, you know, weren't trying to kind of shelter me too much or hold me back.
00:09:33
Speaker
And I got to say that that I feel like of all the inequities, like parenting is a really big one that we don't talk about.
00:09:41
Speaker
And I, I felt really,
00:09:44
Speaker
lucky.
00:09:45
Speaker
And I want parents to learn more about disability, even potential parents, so that we can start shaping how parents deal with it.
00:09:53
Speaker
But anyway, so I got really lucky.
00:09:54
Speaker
I was born with a disability.
00:09:56
Speaker
My parents were encouraged by a hospital in Minnesota to maybe
00:10:02
Speaker
have me do a bunch of surgeries because before I was born, a lot of my arms broke in utero.
00:10:07
Speaker
Well, not a lot, both.
00:10:08
Speaker
There's only two arms, right?
00:10:10
Speaker
So my arms broke in utero and so did my legs.
00:10:14
Speaker
And so they were bent at odd angles and they still are.
00:10:18
Speaker
But there was, you know, doctors were pressuring my mom and dad into having me do a surgery early on.
00:10:26
Speaker
And luckily my mom just wasn't
00:10:29
Speaker
comfortable with that.
00:10:30
Speaker
She said, you know, she's too young to make that decision on her own, and I'm not really comfortable making that decision for her.
00:10:36
Speaker
So they left it up to me, and I had until puberty, basically, to decide if I wanted to have operations to try to straighten my arms and legs.
00:10:44
Speaker
And I eventually just like was kind of like, well, I don't need to walk to have a good life.
00:10:50
Speaker
Like, I don't want to have a bunch of operations with unclear outcomes.
00:10:56
Speaker
Just in this like goal of walking and it was never pushed on me.
00:11:00
Speaker
I know a lot of people, especially in the former generations, like earlier.
00:11:04
Speaker
walking was seen as like the gold standard of like, this is what you need to achieve.
00:11:09
Speaker
And there's so much emphasis was put on that.
00:11:11
Speaker
And I think to some extent it still is, but hopefully that's changing.
00:11:15
Speaker
So I didn't ever walk.
00:11:17
Speaker
I didn't ever...
00:11:18
Speaker
you know, of course, as a little kid, when you grow up different, you sometimes feel that sting of being kind of excluded or different.
00:11:26
Speaker
And so it's not like it was, there was no grief around disability, but it eventually, the grief around disability eventually kind of dissipated into just like, well, this is who I am.
00:11:38
Speaker
And so I grew up, you know, feeling like
00:11:45
Speaker
disability was part of my identity.
00:11:47
Speaker
And, and as I've learned more about disability culture, I obviously like, feel even more strongly about that now that it's, I wouldn't be able to, I wouldn't be the same person without my disability.
00:11:59
Speaker
And because I enjoy my life, and I feel like
00:12:03
Speaker
you know, I have something to offer the world, I don't actually feel like my disability is a negative thing.
00:12:09
Speaker
It doesn't mean that having a disability doesn't make things more complicated because our society is not set up for disability largely and the programming for it is
00:12:20
Speaker
you know, a lot of work and, and, you know, there's a lot of struggle about being disabled in America, but it's not my disabilities problem.
00:12:28
Speaker
It's more like the rest of society.
00:12:30
Speaker
So as a disabled artist, you know, I made music because I loved it.
00:12:35
Speaker
I had friends that were in orchestra.
00:12:37
Speaker
I,
00:12:38
Speaker
Eventually, when I graduated and went into college, I started playing with friends.
00:12:41
Speaker
Music was always just a huge source of joy for me.
00:12:44
Speaker
And then as a disabled artist, where it started kind of showing up is just recognizing and real, like the more I traveled, the more I realized how inaccessible the music industry is for artists all over the world, not even just in the United States.
00:13:00
Speaker
And that's where like my artistry and activism kind of started to intersect was when I got on the road, I realized like, if we want to see more disability in our culture, we have to make some real structural changes because
00:13:16
Speaker
you can't expect people like you know when I started out people at a open mic we had to like carry me to the bathroom strangers like you know I'd go there by myself I'd play music but if I'd use the bathroom a stranger had to set me on a chair in front of the toilet and then like wait outside for you know it was like weird stuff like that where you're like you shouldn't expect people to put up with that like of course you don't see as many disabled artists if it's so inaccessible or people would have to lift my wheelchair onto the stage which isn't
00:13:44
Speaker
really safe.
00:13:45
Speaker
It's like a 300 pound wheelchair.
00:13:47
Speaker
I have brittle bones disease.
00:13:48
Speaker
Like, yeah, it's just a lot of extra, like not just labor, but not really safe scenarios that you're asking people to do to participate.
00:13:57
Speaker
So if you want more participation,
00:14:01
Speaker
you have to make it more accessible, you know?
00:14:03
Speaker
So that's where I kind of, the art and music.
00:14:06
Speaker
But generally, my music is not actually about disability blatantly.
00:14:11
Speaker
There is one song that I think I will have you play, which I wrote around the time they...
00:14:17
Speaker
the last time, 2017, when we're talking about cutting Medicaid, I wrote a song called I Wait, which was born out of frustration of disabled people not being included in that discussion at all about how important Medicaid is and why we can't cut it.
00:14:33
Speaker
And here we are again, you know, like seven years later talking about the same thing.
00:14:38
Speaker
And so I do think disability can inform my music, but largely I feel like
00:14:44
Speaker
It's such an integrated part of my personality that I couldn't take out.
00:14:50
Speaker
Like there's an element of disability in every song I write, but I don't feel like I'm thinking about disability alone when I write most of the time.
00:14:57
Speaker
Right.
00:14:57
Speaker
Does that make sense to you?
00:14:59
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:15:00
Speaker
As a disabled artist, you probably know what I'm talking about.
00:15:03
Speaker
Yeah, you couldn't take it out of the equation.
00:15:05
Speaker
I mean, it's really part of you.
00:15:07
Speaker
I mean, it also sounds like to me, which kind of leads me a little bit into another question about you being raised inside of a, you know, sort of theater family, right?
00:15:19
Speaker
Like your parents owned, what was a theater restaurant?
00:15:24
Speaker
Or like a dinner theater, a little dinner theater company.
00:15:27
Speaker
And so it's kind of absolutely, I mean, I guess you could say even extraordinary that your parents kind of pretty much normalized your life.
00:15:35
Speaker
And so in some ways,
00:15:37
Speaker
I guess you had early access and accessibility was just the norm.
00:15:42
Speaker
And so once you kind of almost like, you know, grew up and sort of entered the, you know, the world outside of your family domain, I guess you started seeing more and more of like what needed to be in
00:15:54
Speaker
done in terms of inclusion.
00:15:56
Speaker
And that's a pretty powerful story of having to be wheeled or lifted to the bathroom and not having proper access and suddenly finding like, wait a second, there needs to be some change.
00:16:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:10
Speaker
I guess for my parents that, and I think this is a common thing, you know, again, everybody's disability is different.
00:16:17
Speaker
Mental, like I also have mental health issues myself, but like if that was your only disability and by only, I mean, if you didn't also have physical issues, for example, your experience is going to be different than mine or, you know, people who have vision loss are going to have a different experience.
00:16:32
Speaker
But for me, growing up in a supportive family, it really was a very jarring experience to become an adult because, you know,
00:16:40
Speaker
largely you grow up feeling like anything I want to do, I'll put my mind to it and I'll be able to do it.
00:16:46
Speaker
And just realizing, like, I mean, a big part of my story.
00:16:50
Speaker
I mean, I just finished writing my memoir and it's going to come out in April of 2026, I believe.
00:16:56
Speaker
It's a long ways away, but it's coming.
00:16:57
Speaker
Congratulations.
00:16:59
Speaker
Thank you.
00:16:59
Speaker
And so when that comes out, a lot of the hardest experiences were medical trauma, you know, something I was completely wholly unprepared for.
00:17:08
Speaker
as a kid, like thinking that a doctor wouldn't listen to me because of my disability.
00:17:13
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:17:13
Speaker
Like that kind of experience was so far from my family reality that it really like was traumatizing.
00:17:20
Speaker
And then in terms of like, you know, most of my teachers were great and then one of them wasn't.
00:17:25
Speaker
And
00:17:26
Speaker
And realizing that nothing I could do would make that person see me as an equal student as the other students, you know, and so like, those experiences were largely kept from me as a kid, which I appreciate, actually, because now I, I don't have a sense that I am lesser than but
00:17:44
Speaker
It's a rude awakening when you become an adult and you realize like, oh, this is not actually how.
00:17:50
Speaker
Right, right, right.
00:17:52
Speaker
Your reality was kind of stunted a little bit or kind of mildly distorted.
00:17:57
Speaker
Yes, exactly.
00:17:59
Speaker
And it's hard to make peace of that as an adult.
00:18:02
Speaker
You're like, whoa, okay.
00:18:04
Speaker
Especially when it doesn't have to be that way, as we all know.
00:18:07
Speaker
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:18:09
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, yeah, for it just reminds me of me like attempting to, you know, change things on the mainstream stage, you know, for like, when I was hosting an open mic, you know, out at say, you know, Birdland Jazz Club, and like discussing how maybe they can like, you know, change things a little bit, change the rulebook a little bit.
00:18:27
Speaker
And they looked at me like I was absolutely crazy, you know, for, you know, expressing or conveying something differently, you know, where I said, Oh, I
00:18:35
Speaker
I might have to stop in mid song.
00:18:37
Speaker
Like, is that okay to have somebody else perform?
00:18:39
Speaker
And they're just like, what are you talking about?
00:18:40
Speaker
Just don't come on stage, you know?
00:18:42
Speaker
So it's hard.
00:18:44
Speaker
Yeah, that is hard.
00:18:46
Speaker
to change accessibility in the mainstream.
00:18:50
Speaker
But, you know, was there any music you fell in love with simply by being inside of your parents' dinner theater that kind of, I don't know, influenced you?
00:19:01
Speaker
Yeah, I never talk about this.
00:19:03
Speaker
I am obsessed with big band music because...
00:19:06
Speaker
Some of the earlier plays were like kind of like 40s vibes music.
00:19:10
Speaker
And I still, I don't play it.
00:19:12
Speaker
I don't sing it.
00:19:13
Speaker
But I listen to it a lot.
00:19:15
Speaker
Like jazz, you know, jazz generally, but then specifically like Tommy Dorsey and, you know, Duke Ellington and all those older things.
00:19:23
Speaker
Like I really love that music.
00:19:25
Speaker
And I think that's specifically because my parents had a couple plays when I was, you know, early on.
00:19:32
Speaker
Oh, nice, nice.
00:19:34
Speaker
It's great music.
00:19:35
Speaker
I mean, there's so much great music, but that's got a special place in my heart.
00:19:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:42
Speaker
Do you think that that influences your music writing style?
00:19:46
Speaker
Because I know that a lot of times I've heard your music described more as, I don't know, like Irish or Celtic, you know, storytelling, like folklore sort of style.
00:19:59
Speaker
Yeah, I think probably where the music, if Big Band has any influence, it's probably the strong melody.
00:20:07
Speaker
Like, I really love having a really strong melody.
00:20:11
Speaker
But I think the Celtic thing comes from, you know, after high school, I realized I didn't want to keep doing classical music, so I switched over to Celtic music.
00:20:20
Speaker
And I don't know, really not intentional, but it creeps into my songwriting now.
00:20:26
Speaker
And I also, at night, like, so the...
00:20:29
Speaker
dinnertime is my like big band jazz era and then when I sit down at night to read I'm always listening to Celtic music so like I listen to it a lot and it's kind of just worked its way in there um but melody like timeless melodies are something that I really love and then for me another music I fell in love with early which wasn't because of my parents dinner theater but I loved Simon and Garfunkel with like a burning passion like I had all of their
00:20:55
Speaker
albums at age 13 like weird I don't know why I like them so much but I did and then the Decemberists and Wilco and Neutral Milk Hotel so like maybe could it be that you know sometimes there's like I don't know like environmental factors like maybe you you know were connected to some
00:21:11
Speaker
I don't know, something that happened to you then that sort of like jumpstarted your connection to.
00:21:16
Speaker
I don't know.
00:21:16
Speaker
I just love their lyrics, the use of like poetic lyrics, but not necessarily like overly witty, like, you know, saying things in a beautiful way is important to me.
00:21:27
Speaker
And yeah, and yeah.
00:21:30
Speaker
And I think.
00:21:31
Speaker
The other thing I loved about Simon and Garfunkel and then later bands like Wilco is making musical instruments sound like other things.
Influences and Reflections on Music
00:21:40
Speaker
My favorite song by Simon and Garfunkel is called Old Friends Bookends and they make the orchestra sound like traffic noises at one point and it kind of fades away and
00:21:51
Speaker
It's just such a creative, abusive song.
00:21:53
Speaker
If you haven't heard that one, I might take a listen.
00:21:55
Speaker
That's neat-o.
00:21:56
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:21:57
Speaker
I kind of attempted to do that with one song that I had written called Stand Clear of the Closing Doors.
00:22:01
Speaker
And, you know, I don't know if you're familiar with New York City Trains, but, you know, like kind of.
00:22:06
Speaker
That is real.
00:22:07
Speaker
Playing around on the piano with the kind of, you know, ding dong.
00:22:10
Speaker
That's awesome.
00:22:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:14
Speaker
It's interesting.
00:22:15
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:16
Speaker
So like your music has, your music is quite beautiful and deeply the word haunting comes up a lot.
00:22:24
Speaker
I know I've, I've, I've heard that before and it's some of my music is sort of similar in that way.
00:22:33
Speaker
And yeah,
00:22:36
Speaker
I was wondering, like, even though, you know, a lot of folks say, oh, you know, it's haunting or it's, you know, kind of sad.
00:22:44
Speaker
And it, I don't know, it feels like it can also like bring out this feeling of like waiting at the edge for some light to come through it, you know?
00:22:53
Speaker
Like, I don't know, like also like in anticipation of something uplifting that has the possibility to rise, even though, you know, like the...
00:23:04
Speaker
the melodies you write are like, you know, can sound like and be so dark and like feeling like it's filled with despair.
00:23:12
Speaker
Like, I wonder if that's something you also experience both when you're performing or I don't know if you're like listening back to your songs.
00:23:20
Speaker
Do you also feel like it has a sense of hope?
00:23:23
Speaker
Yeah, that's a good observation.
00:23:26
Speaker
I think that's actually a really important part of songwriting to me is trying to convey the world a little more even handed.
00:23:39
Speaker
Like there is a lot of suffering, but there is also a lot of beauty.
00:23:43
Speaker
And how do you hold those two things simultaneously?
00:23:47
Speaker
I think having a disability is a real reason that that comes through in my music because
00:23:53
Speaker
I'm not going to sugarcoat and say that everything has always been great with the way that life has always turned out.
00:24:00
Speaker
But yes, it has been.
00:24:03
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:24:03
Speaker
They are literally both too.
00:24:05
Speaker
And so I think in my music, I want to... If I were to make an album that was 100% dark and angry, I wouldn't feel authentic about it because it's not...
00:24:18
Speaker
Even in these dark times, for example, politically, even right now, there are good things happening in the world, and it doesn't mean
00:24:30
Speaker
that you're talking about toxic positivity, it's just like literally true.
00:24:34
Speaker
Like there is good and bad all the time.
00:24:37
Speaker
And music to me is a way to kind of hold that contradiction.
00:24:41
Speaker
And, and, and for me, it's been a really important part to feel authentic, like not too overly authentic,
00:24:48
Speaker
positive and not too overly negative because I think then you're kind of almost manipulating the audience.
00:24:55
Speaker
I don't know how to explain.
00:24:56
Speaker
Like, let's be real about what we are dealing with right now.
00:24:59
Speaker
And it's really, you know, it can be really hard and yet hopeful at the same time.
00:25:04
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:25:05
Speaker
Yes, yes, yes.
00:25:06
Speaker
You know, I don't know.
00:25:07
Speaker
For me on a personal level, I find that things are just, I don't even know if I can make a distinction between understanding any level of
00:25:16
Speaker
good or bad.
00:25:17
Speaker
I think it's just absolutely chaotic and confusing.
00:25:21
Speaker
Oh gosh, right now is a weird time.
00:25:24
Speaker
I'm not going to, oh my gosh.
00:25:25
Speaker
Oh, it's disorienting.
00:25:26
Speaker
It's so disorienting.
00:25:29
Speaker
That's one thing I think artists can remind us in this time is like, I don't think it's about DEI.
00:25:38
Speaker
I don't think it's about, like, I think what I'm saying is these words that we use that are describing the situation,
00:25:46
Speaker
are inadequate.
00:25:46
Speaker
The truth of the matter is, do you want to make the world a more welcoming place for people or not?
00:25:53
Speaker
Like that is like, everybody wants to feel that they have a place.
00:25:58
Speaker
Every single person does.
00:26:00
Speaker
And so like,
00:26:01
Speaker
until we start talking about this stuff universally, like the discussions are always going to feel siloed.
00:26:08
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:26:09
Speaker
And like, like, is the goal moving us closer to everyone feeling like they have a place at the table or not?
00:26:15
Speaker
And if, and I would argue right now, we're not moving closer to that goal.
00:26:19
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:26:19
Speaker
Like on either, on either end of the political spectrum, I think it's like, that's one of the things that artists can do, I think is you kind of,
00:26:27
Speaker
Help with the listening maybe too.
00:26:29
Speaker
I don't know.
00:26:29
Speaker
Orient hopefully to a conversation about like literally, especially
Disability Justice and Advocacy
00:26:36
Speaker
in disability.
00:26:36
Speaker
Like to me, one of the things that's been hard to deal with or like think about is like, it does seem so polarized even on both sides, to be honest.
00:26:45
Speaker
And polarization is hard because if I really believe in disability justice, which I do, it means that every single person has
00:26:55
Speaker
value and is deserving of respect.
00:26:57
Speaker
So when we devolve away from respectful dialogue, I think we're devolving away from disability justice, you know, like it's hard because it's not like, it's just everything is so, there's so many emotions.
00:27:12
Speaker
I mean, I have them too.
00:27:13
Speaker
I'm not saying I'm like being a Zen Buddhist over here because I'm not like, you know, just like disability justice to me.
00:27:21
Speaker
if anything, means two things.
00:27:23
Speaker
It means the world is more welcoming to everybody and that we actively work to do that.
00:27:28
Speaker
And that also we treat everyone with dignity and respect, but that literally does have to mean everyone.
00:27:34
Speaker
It doesn't mean you have to condone illegal behavior or not, you know, provide like righting wrongs.
00:27:41
Speaker
Like you do need to do that.
00:27:42
Speaker
But the respect piece, if we're going to be authentic about what we mean,
00:27:47
Speaker
It literally does have to include everyone, which is hard, you know?
00:27:50
Speaker
Absolutely, yeah.
00:27:52
Speaker
It's a hard job.
00:27:53
Speaker
It's not only a hard job, yeah.
00:27:55
Speaker
Sometimes I think... We wouldn't have religion or spirituality or guidelines or any of that stuff if this was easy.
00:28:00
Speaker
Like, we wouldn't need it, but it's not easy.
00:28:02
Speaker
So, like, therefore, we need to, like, think about our, like, higher...
00:28:07
Speaker
calling as people like what what does that mean and it's not it is literally not going to be easy and that's just true it's not bad it's just true you know what i mean sorry i'm ranting at you i feel so bad no no no you are not ranting everything you're saying is just it's so impactful and i think you have so much that needs to be heard you know and yeah like you can continue speaking or i can also dive into the next question um
00:28:36
Speaker
Kaylin, you're such a pleasure to speak with, and you're so deeply multifaceted in both your talent and speaking about disability, and also philosophically.
00:28:49
Speaker
I think it sounds like you have, I think I read somewhere you also had a background in studying something else.
00:28:56
Speaker
I think it was political science from what I remember.
00:28:59
Speaker
Yeah, political science.
00:29:01
Speaker
So it's just really wonderful.
00:29:02
Speaker
I feel like it's almost, you know, what a wonderful...
00:29:05
Speaker
gift in a way to have all of those combined and to be such an advocate to be able to share the work you're doing through Melody.
00:29:15
Speaker
So yeah, in conclusion, I'm just saying I so appreciate your rant.
00:29:20
Speaker
Oh, it's so good, good, because I was like, oh no.
00:29:23
Speaker
And I, yeah.
00:29:24
Speaker
And because I verbally also like, I don't, um, sometimes I, my communication and processing gets a little, um, confusing.
00:29:31
Speaker
And so that's why I just end up going back to the prompts and just appreciate more of the listening.
00:29:36
Speaker
I was going to ask, are you currently working on any projects or has there been something especially meaningful to you?
00:29:41
Speaker
And I'm guessing that maybe I could dive into the fact that you have been writing a book and have completed it.
00:29:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:51
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:52
Speaker
Um,
00:29:53
Speaker
So I wrote a memoir.
00:29:56
Speaker
I'm still editing it, so it's not quite submitted in its final form yet.
00:30:00
Speaker
But I finished the rough draft a little bit before Christmas and got like 10 friends to read it and got all their comments worked in.
00:30:09
Speaker
And now I'm working on like my editor read it after that.
00:30:12
Speaker
And now she's gotten comments for me and stuff.
00:30:15
Speaker
But writing a memoir, it's been interesting because
00:30:19
Speaker
you know, a lot of music people on the road would be like, when are you going to write about this?
00:30:23
Speaker
And I, I guess you just don't know what you don't know.
00:30:26
Speaker
I'm like, oh, someday that'd be fun.
00:30:27
Speaker
And it's a huge project, basically.
00:30:29
Speaker
Like, I'm glad I did it.
00:30:31
Speaker
It feels so good to know that eventually there's going to be a book, but it was like a not a light undertaking.
00:30:37
Speaker
And I'm kind of glad I didn't know what was going ahead of time because it was a lot.
00:30:42
Speaker
That's incredible.
00:30:42
Speaker
When did you start?
00:30:44
Speaker
I started in earnest writing.
00:30:47
Speaker
So I thought about it for like years.
00:30:49
Speaker
And then I did an outline.
00:30:51
Speaker
Like I didn't know what I was getting into.
00:30:52
Speaker
So like when you write a memoir, you have to create a pretty large, it's like, you know, 100 page.
00:30:57
Speaker
book proposal where you give like a chapter you give a page summary for every chapter you have a press plan you have all this stuff that I had no idea that you had to do so that took me about a year to make like um because you also have to write two sample chapters and I ended up oh my I imagine that probably took you a little bit away from your music oh yes it did and and so that's the thing it sounds like this is pretty important yeah
00:31:21
Speaker
Yeah, no, I think it is going to be like it's a sort of the book proposal took a year.
00:31:27
Speaker
And then in the in the fall of 2023, I started writing like actually writing and then I ended in December.
00:31:34
Speaker
So it took about 15 months to write it and then I'll be editing it and it'll be coming out in April of 2026.
00:31:41
Speaker
And the title is called?
00:31:43
Speaker
It's a little bit undecided.
00:31:46
Speaker
I can't tell you.
00:31:47
Speaker
I had a title.
00:31:48
Speaker
It was going to be called Linger in the Sun.
00:31:49
Speaker
Yes.
00:31:50
Speaker
It might not be anymore.
00:31:51
Speaker
Okay.
00:31:52
Speaker
Oh, interesting.
00:31:52
Speaker
But that's okay because it's this other title, which I shouldn't probably say yet.
00:31:57
Speaker
I'll be really excited because it's the title I already wanted.
00:32:00
Speaker
I know.
00:32:01
Speaker
Well, I can probably tell you.
00:32:03
Speaker
That's okay.
00:32:03
Speaker
You don't have to.
00:32:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:04
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:05
Speaker
It'll be after a song that's going to come out on the Macbeth soundtrack.
00:32:09
Speaker
So it hasn't been released yet.
00:32:11
Speaker
So I'm excited for that.
00:32:13
Speaker
But yeah.
00:32:14
Speaker
Sorry to interrupt, but the title Lingered in the Sun is, in fact, from one of your songs, right?
00:32:23
Speaker
Yeah, yep.
00:32:24
Speaker
Someday Will Linger in the Sun is the name of the song I entered into the Tiny Desk contest.
00:32:29
Speaker
That's the one, yeah.
00:32:31
Speaker
But this song feels like it fits the story better.
00:32:33
Speaker
Like, lingering in the sun implies that we have made it.
00:32:37
Speaker
And I think we're working on it, right?
00:32:40
Speaker
And so I think this title will be a little more reflective of the book, like, if I get to change it.
00:32:47
Speaker
And I'll know that pretty soon.
00:32:48
Speaker
And maybe I'll send it your way when I'm allowed to talk about it.
00:32:51
Speaker
Oh, please do.
00:32:52
Speaker
I am so looking forward to it.
00:32:54
Speaker
And I love that you mentioned it as a...
00:32:56
Speaker
like a love letter to everybody, like a warm, funny, deeply felt memoir about disability music and the messy creativity of an artist's life.
00:33:07
Speaker
Yeah, I hope, I hope, I mean, what my goal of the book is, because it's kind of like, why would you write a memoir, right?
Memoir Writing and Shifting Perspectives
00:33:12
Speaker
As opposed to like making another album.
00:33:14
Speaker
Part of me wants people to think about disability from a more like identity perspective.
00:33:20
Speaker
I think a lot of the narratives we get about disability are so like either you overcome it or it's a tragedy or somehow you manage to make it.
00:33:31
Speaker
Like very black and white.
00:33:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:33
Speaker
And I just, I'm like, you know, I don't think that's my experience.
00:33:37
Speaker
And, and kind of explaining why advocacy matters.
00:33:41
Speaker
Like, I'm hoping that people read it and then feel like, oh, I guess if I became disabled, it might not be the end of the world.
00:33:48
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:33:49
Speaker
Like, like, but there will still be things we need to work on, you know?
00:33:53
Speaker
So I think.
00:33:54
Speaker
the idea of kind of just looking at disability from a more empowered perspective, I hope is like the goal.
00:34:02
Speaker
Cause I just think it's a missing part of our dialogue.
00:34:05
Speaker
A lot of the times, I mean, in the disability community, as you know, like in ramps where we have met and stuff, it's a very empowering space.
00:34:13
Speaker
People do value their lives and they like, and they like want to make a difference and they're,
00:34:19
Speaker
They're striving just as anyone else, but in the general public, that is not how we talk about disability.
00:34:25
Speaker
There's a big disconnect, I think, between what we think of our lives and what other people think of our lives.
00:34:31
Speaker
And that's a problem.
00:34:32
Speaker
Oh, and yeah, that is probably for a much longer podcast.
00:34:37
Speaker
Yes, we'll be here for five hours.
00:34:39
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like, yeah, maybe we can continue it because, yeah, it can get pretty heavy and so complex, you know, to be able to, yeah.
00:34:49
Speaker
But that's the point of the book is I wrote it with that in mind, but I did try to keep a lot of humor and fun stuff in there.
00:34:58
Speaker
And then there's, you know, the other, I think it's pretty balanced.
00:35:01
Speaker
And that's why I, because I also just don't want people to read a book about disability and feel like that was so heavy.
00:35:08
Speaker
That was such a hard read.
00:35:10
Speaker
I'm so sad now.
00:35:11
Speaker
Like, you know, I think it's balanced in a way where hopefully people walk away thinking a little more nuanced about disability.
00:35:19
Speaker
And again, it's only my perspective, which is why I think everybody with a disability who wants to should be writing and putting essays and books out and stuff because I can't speak for anyone else's
00:35:32
Speaker
and I'm not going to try.
00:35:35
Speaker
But I think if you start to learn, I mean, that's what I love about touring.
00:35:39
Speaker
You get to meet so many people and you realize everybody's life is perfectly valid and so diverse and it's exciting.
00:35:48
Speaker
I see that as exciting.
00:35:49
Speaker
And I don't think we have to see it as like challenging if I'm right or wrong.
00:35:55
Speaker
It's more just like, no, how cool is it that there's this many ways to exist?
00:35:59
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, it is beautiful.
00:36:01
Speaker
I mean, I'm just on a personal level.
00:36:02
Speaker
I've also, I'm only just tiptoeing into the disability and, you know, the ramped world and discovering that kind of diversity.
00:36:12
Speaker
And I love that you use the term, you know, exciting.
00:36:16
Speaker
And because for so many, pretty much most of my life, I
00:36:21
Speaker
never even felt okay saying the word disabled, you know, and that's just a topic on its own because, you know, being raised inside of whatever it is, right?
00:36:29
Speaker
A family, a culture, an extremist religion that really kind of puts so much shame on who you are and tells you to just pretend that disability doesn't exist because maybe you can't see it.
00:36:42
Speaker
And so that's something that I had to kind of unlearn and I'm still, still in the place of unlearning it.
00:36:47
Speaker
And so I just love the word you use, you know,
00:36:50
Speaker
being excited when you're on tour, when you're meeting more people.
00:36:55
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:57
Speaker
So, and on that note, oh, do you have like a favorite album that you worked on or a song that you ever looked back on that, I don't know, like warms your heart more than the other stuff?
00:37:07
Speaker
Oh, that's a good question.
00:37:09
Speaker
I mean, there's, I kind of think every, somebody said this one, so I'm not the one that thought of it and I don't remember who said it, so I can't quote them, but
00:37:18
Speaker
like every album is sort of a snapshot of your life at that time.
00:37:22
Speaker
So every album has some nostalgia for me.
00:37:25
Speaker
I think creatively speaking, learning how to stay was a full band.
00:37:31
Speaker
I had never done that before.
00:37:32
Speaker
And I had a couple friends kind of co-produce it with me because I felt insecure about like, how do I tell a guitarist what to do?
00:37:41
Speaker
I don't play guitar.
00:37:42
Speaker
I don't know chords.
00:37:43
Speaker
And it turns out you don't really need to actually
00:37:46
Speaker
know that stuff if they know what they're doing.
00:37:48
Speaker
I like to work with people who can improvise and hear things like playback melodies to me because if they have a good ear, I don't have to have the like vocabulary.
00:37:58
Speaker
So we're going to listen to a clip from one of your songs.
00:38:01
Speaker
Can you tell us a little bit about it?
00:38:03
Speaker
There is a song called Bound by a Thread that opens up the album Learning How to Stay, which was my full band album.
00:38:10
Speaker
And I remember telling the band, I want it to sound like you're walking into an attic that hasn't been touched in 40 years and there's dust everywhere and the door creaks and you come in and you're like looking at the past.
00:38:26
Speaker
And they were able to kind of create that sound.
00:38:29
Speaker
And the song Bound by a Thread is...
00:38:32
Speaker
kind of about reincarnation actually about like how throughout the ages uh your your impact trickles down um and and just continually trying to learn how to be more loving that's what the song is about so there's a note that repeats a c all the way through the song but you don't always hear it and sometimes you hear it and there's a connecting thread so that song like
00:38:59
Speaker
I loved making that song because sonically it matches the lyrics so much.
00:39:04
Speaker
It was just like a good experience to try to sonically make what I was feeling inside, even beyond just lyrics, but in the recording studio.
00:39:15
Speaker
I think recording studios can be so much fun.
00:39:17
Speaker
I don't know how much you prefer.
00:39:19
Speaker
I love playing live, but this was the first song where I was like, oh my gosh, you can do so much in the studio.
00:39:26
Speaker
Like, this is so amazing.
00:39:27
Speaker
Yeah.
00:39:28
Speaker
Oh, no, I'm so I'm for me.
00:39:30
Speaker
I yeah, I definitely appreciate much more recording than I do live performance.
00:39:36
Speaker
I mean, I haven't played in a long time due to illness.
00:39:38
Speaker
And speaking of having disabilities, but the recordings are definitely.
00:39:44
Speaker
um a little bit easier and yeah i feel like you you become much more freeing like there's definitely a sense of like liberation um and you're not as vulnerable i don't know if that's the same for you but yeah for me it's like the yeah the life stages it can be complicated especially when i you know get um
00:40:06
Speaker
For me, it's more like I get a lot of disruptions during live performance in my brain.
00:40:13
Speaker
So it gets more complicated.
00:40:15
Speaker
more complicated.
00:40:17
Speaker
Yeah.
00:40:17
Speaker
So, yeah.
00:40:18
Speaker
Yep.
00:40:18
Speaker
No, that makes sense.
00:40:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:40:19
Speaker
For me, it's like two completely different realms.
00:40:22
Speaker
Like recording was really scary and I put a lot of pressure on myself.
00:40:27
Speaker
And then when I, and I'm not totally good at this, I still sometimes put too much pressure on recording the perfect take or whatever.
00:40:33
Speaker
And so that kind of is a struggle to get through.
00:40:37
Speaker
For me, performing is a little bit different because I feel like,
00:40:43
Speaker
a lot of energy like come down through my head and go out through my chest and it's like a physical sensation of energy flow into the audience and for me I guess what I try to do and it's like it's like meditation almost for me because I'm not it's not natural but I can
00:41:01
Speaker
I try to remind myself that this is not actually, you could have the worst show of your life and somebody who needed to hear the lyrics will still get what they need out of it.
00:41:11
Speaker
So I really try to take myself out of the equation and just be a conduit of energy.
00:41:17
Speaker
So I love performing.
00:41:19
Speaker
I love that you used the term meditation.
00:41:21
Speaker
It really feels like that to me.
00:41:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:24
Speaker
And it's not easy.
00:41:25
Speaker
Like you can get thrown off when you meditate, right?
00:41:27
Speaker
Like I do.
00:41:28
Speaker
I frequently get thrown off, but when I'm in the moment, it feels pretty spiritual for me.
00:41:33
Speaker
So I do like performing and I don't think I'd ever want to, like, I wouldn't just do the studio, but I like both of them now, which is kind of new because I used to only like performing.
00:41:43
Speaker
You can appreciate both parts.
00:41:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:46
Speaker
A little bit more as you worked after this, the last song that you just mentioned.
00:41:51
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:52
Speaker
sonic sculpture.
00:41:54
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:54
Speaker
I so look forward to listening to that now.
00:41:57
Speaker
Now I have to go listen to the track after we're done here.
00:41:59
Speaker
Awesome.
00:42:08
Speaker
Bound, bound, bound by a fright Going down
00:42:16
Speaker
down through the ages.
00:42:20
Speaker
You could have stayed, but you came here instead to fill my life's empty pages.
00:43:06
Speaker
I know that our listeners would like to hear a little bit more about perhaps the arts education that you received.
00:43:13
Speaker
I don't know if you had mentioned it earlier, but maybe you can briefly share a little bit about your background.
00:43:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:43:19
Speaker
So, you know, I did orchestra through fifth grade all the way through senior year.
00:43:25
Speaker
And it was in public school.
00:43:28
Speaker
I was one of the, like, really nerdy orchestra kids that took, like, every orchestra possible and did the, you know, like, auditioned and did a solo senior year.
00:43:39
Speaker
And I think the reason I was able, and this is kind of going back to the support team thing that you talked about at the beginning, is I...
00:43:49
Speaker
A lot of us, you know, like a disabled person or any musician, honestly, you put into it a certain amount and you get out a certain amount, right?
00:43:57
Speaker
So I put a lot into music.
00:43:59
Speaker
I'm not going to pretend that I didn't.
00:44:01
Speaker
I did.
00:44:01
Speaker
I put a lot.
00:44:02
Speaker
I practiced all the time.
00:44:03
Speaker
I really... But at the same time, because I play differently, the way I play violin up and down like a cello, there's a couple other things that are different too.
00:44:13
Speaker
Usually you use four fingers on the violin.
00:44:16
Speaker
fingerboard and I because of the angle of my arm can only use three so I play a little differently that way also my bow is very small like I a cello size bow or even a regular violin size bow is way too big and so I use what's called a half size bow it's just a lot shorter and those two changes meant that
00:44:38
Speaker
through my education, through my like formal training, I needed my private lesson teachers to help me modify the music because everybody has in orchestra, what happens is the conductor says, okay, finger, like, like use these fingers for these notes.
00:44:55
Speaker
And I couldn't, it didn't translate correctly for me.
00:44:58
Speaker
I needed my own fingering and I needed also the bowings.
00:45:01
Speaker
Like it's, so there's a high premium on everybody bowing the same way.
00:45:05
Speaker
It's like ballet kind of like the direction you're pulling or pushing.
00:45:08
Speaker
And I couldn't do what they were doing because I had a smaller boat.
00:45:12
Speaker
And so I had private lesson teachers.
00:45:14
Speaker
In some ways, it sounds like you also were teaching them.
00:45:17
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:45:19
Speaker
That's the thing is my private lesson teachers had never taught anyone like me before.
00:45:25
Speaker
So we were learning together, but they were willing to do it.
00:45:29
Speaker
And I got lucky because we were pretty low income, my family.
00:45:32
Speaker
And so my parents actually paid my private lesson teachers in dinner theater tickets.
00:45:38
Speaker
I didn't pay them money, but I think they were willing to do that because they were learning too.
00:45:42
Speaker
Like, like you say, they were like, trying to find a new way to do it.
00:45:46
Speaker
And it was interesting to them.
00:45:47
Speaker
And so I feel like- And little did you know that you were doing advocacy?
00:45:51
Speaker
Yeah, no idea.
00:45:53
Speaker
Definitely not.
00:45:55
Speaker
No, yeah.
00:45:57
Speaker
Yeah, that's amazing.
00:45:57
Speaker
So that thing is like-
00:45:59
Speaker
education in some ways you learn alongside your peers, but you do need certain supports behind the scenes.
Celtic Music and Advice for Young Artists
00:46:06
Speaker
And it didn't have to be my orchestra teacher, but I did need somebody.
00:46:11
Speaker
And so I think the myth that, you know,
00:46:15
Speaker
It's okay to need help, basically, is what I'm saying.
00:46:18
Speaker
Oh, my gosh.
00:46:19
Speaker
Yes.
00:46:19
Speaker
Preach that, please.
00:46:20
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:46:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:46:22
Speaker
And then when I got the help, I did a lot with it.
00:46:26
Speaker
I still decided not to go into classical music because in order to play a fast passage high up on the violin, because I only had three fingers that I was working with, I...
00:46:38
Speaker
like it took me so much longer to get those parts up to speed.
00:46:42
Speaker
And I mean, I could have kept doing that.
00:46:44
Speaker
Some people do.
00:46:45
Speaker
They're like, I'm going to work 125% in order to get this because I want to, but it wasn't driving me.
00:46:52
Speaker
Like I was like, you know, I'd rather do some other kind of music that doesn't require like tons of extra labor just to do what everybody else is doing.
00:47:01
Speaker
And so that's when I switched over to Celtic music, which is a lot more relaxed on technique and like,
00:47:07
Speaker
And you can enjoy it.
00:47:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:47:08
Speaker
And you can enjoy it.
00:47:09
Speaker
And more joy without the burnout.
00:47:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:47:11
Speaker
And so for me, you know, it's again, disabled people, if you want to compete in the same exact arena as everyone else with the same exact rules, that's totally fair.
00:47:20
Speaker
Like you have the right to do that.
00:47:21
Speaker
But also, again, you're not a lesser than, especially in the arts, you're not lesser than if you find a thing that suits you well.
00:47:29
Speaker
and you do it because you're creating something beautiful anyways and like art is so subjective you know classical music isn't inherently better than celtic music even if it thinks it is you know what i mean like it's not so like just do what what it's just a whole bunch of bourgeois anyway i mean i like classical music i listen to it a lot but it's certainly not the only kind of music and it doesn't mean you're thankfully you know right
00:47:55
Speaker
Yeah, like, you know, I write my own music.
00:47:58
Speaker
A lot of classical violinists don't write their own music.
00:48:00
Speaker
And I'm not better than them, and they're not better than me, and we're all just making art.
00:48:05
Speaker
So, like, find something that works for you, and don't be afraid to adapt it, and don't be afraid to get support.
00:48:11
Speaker
Oh, that actually leads me to the next question.
00:48:13
Speaker
Sorry to interrupt, but might you have some advice you'd like to share with some of our younger disabled artists out there who might just be starting out?
00:48:22
Speaker
Yeah, I mean...
00:48:25
Speaker
The first thing is, you know, it's okay to start really, really small.
00:48:32
Speaker
I think, unfortunately, our internet culture makes us feel like if we're not going viral, we're doing something wrong.
00:48:40
Speaker
And especially disability, which I believe, and I could be wrong.
00:48:45
Speaker
but I don't think I am, that disability is sort of kept out of the algorithm.
00:48:50
Speaker
Like you might not feel the traction that you think you should get right away.
00:48:55
Speaker
And I just want to encourage people to find another motivation for doing art.
00:49:00
Speaker
It should not be fame.
00:49:02
Speaker
Like, like, find it in yourself, find it to help other people connect, find it, you know, to spread the, the view of the world that you believe is beautiful, like, whatever it is, like, fame should not be your goal with art.
00:49:16
Speaker
And because you'll never be satisfied.
00:49:20
Speaker
And with disability, especially where I think the cards are kind of stacked against us still, you got to do it for some other reason besides that.
00:49:29
Speaker
And for disabled artists, don't be afraid to ask for what you need.
00:49:33
Speaker
I'm not going to tell people you have to be like me and only play at accessible venues because that's what I do.
00:49:40
Speaker
I only play at accessible venues.
00:49:43
Speaker
I took a while to get there.
00:49:44
Speaker
So I understand that we all have our own timeline, but don't let yourself talk yourself out of it.
00:49:51
Speaker
If you feel called to do that, anything you do to make a point about accessibility to make it easier for the next generation is welcome.
00:50:01
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:50:01
Speaker
Like, I don't think we can demand a certain kind of conduct of all disabled artists.
00:50:10
Speaker
Like we all have to be exactly on the same page.
00:50:13
Speaker
But just so you know, if you want to, if you feel led to like, say, you know, I'm going to make my open mic, I'm going to move it to an accessible venue.
00:50:24
Speaker
That is great.
00:50:25
Speaker
Like anything you can do helps.
00:50:26
Speaker
And there's nothing too small when it comes to making the music industry more welcoming.
00:50:31
Speaker
Like do what you feel you can do.
00:50:33
Speaker
Don't let like perfect be the enemy of good, you know, like do something.
00:50:38
Speaker
Don't be afraid to ask for what you need.
00:50:40
Speaker
And then also,
00:50:41
Speaker
My biggest piece of advice is find other disabled artists because I think I didn't see my first disabled performers, how I was in my thirties besides myself, right?
00:50:52
Speaker
And I didn't realize how much it like helped my mental health to like realize I was not the only person out there doing this stuff.
00:51:00
Speaker
Same here.
00:51:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:51:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:51:03
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:51:04
Speaker
I mean, it really gave me a little bit more of a boost of confidence, you know, to know that I wasn't alone.
00:51:09
Speaker
So, yeah, that's definitely an important one.
00:51:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:51:12
Speaker
And still a work.
00:51:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:51:13
Speaker
Still a work in progress.
00:51:14
Speaker
And yeah.
00:51:15
Speaker
Continuing those connections.
00:51:17
Speaker
I think it's so important to continue being empowered and empowering others through that.
00:51:22
Speaker
And I think that was probably for me, the missing, the missing link for so many years.
00:51:26
Speaker
And I mean, even having you on now is just yet again, a reminder and an inspiration, you know, of rebooting myself in that.
00:51:34
Speaker
So, yeah.
00:51:35
Speaker
I mean, community is big and realizing you're not alone is big and,
00:51:41
Speaker
And just being able to talk to other artists who get that it's frustrating.
00:51:44
Speaker
Like, I mean, and then if you're not disabled and you're listening to this podcast, you have a role too.
00:51:51
Speaker
Disabled artists should not be the only ones playing at accessible venues.
00:51:55
Speaker
Like...
00:51:56
Speaker
Like we need to normalize that across the board and you can be a part of the solution.
00:52:00
Speaker
Like I really want to see bands like really embrace that mentality rather than say, well, that would be extra work because it is extra work.
00:52:09
Speaker
I'm not going to lie.
00:52:10
Speaker
I only book accessible venues.
00:52:11
Speaker
It adds a lot of labor because it's hard to find them.
00:52:15
Speaker
And sometimes I have to tell a venue like what to do to become more accessible.
00:52:19
Speaker
I mean, it is extra work.
00:52:20
Speaker
I'm not going to pretend that it's not.
00:52:22
Speaker
And probably money for them, right?
00:52:24
Speaker
Like, I bet you've come across that as well, right?
00:52:26
Speaker
They're like, financially, we don't have the funds.
00:52:29
Speaker
And so that's why we don't have like a ramp or something like that.
00:52:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:52:32
Speaker
But you vote with your dollar, right?
00:52:34
Speaker
And so that's why I still only play at accessible venues because I want them to be the ones that make it in 10 years.
00:52:40
Speaker
financially like you know I don't want the that we don't need to perpetuate the cycle of inaccessible spaces so artists who are not disabled have a responsibility too I think and and it doesn't again baby steps right but but don't ignore it it's it's a real issue
00:52:59
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:53:00
Speaker
And I feel, oh my gosh, don't get me started.
00:53:01
Speaker
Like you mentioned a little bit about, you know, the politics and I don't know.
00:53:06
Speaker
I feel like that's just opening up a whole new subject.
00:53:09
Speaker
But I do feel like we're living in a time where now more than ever, it just feels like we keep on being gaslit, you know, as disabled artists, but definitely people on...
00:53:17
Speaker
you know, minority and, you know, the underserved, it's like right now, it just seems even harder.
00:53:22
Speaker
And it feels like you may have to work even harder than before because we're going to be knocked down just a little bit more, you know, or denied our rights or being mocked.
00:53:31
Speaker
I feel like we're living in a culture now that maybe is, yeah, a little bit chaotic in this area.
00:53:37
Speaker
So we need voices like yours, Galen.
00:53:40
Speaker
No, it's a real thing.
00:53:42
Speaker
Like anything we can do,
00:53:45
Speaker
to keep disability authentically told front and center is going to be really important right now.
00:53:51
Speaker
I mean, they're talking about turning back laws that are like the foundation of disability rights, like the section 504.
00:53:57
Speaker
They're talking about repealing that and that would be disastrous, like straight up disastrous.
00:54:04
Speaker
And so it doesn't mean we're going anywhere, but it does mean we need to make sure that we're present and accounted for and loud enough where people
00:54:15
Speaker
have to listen.
00:54:15
Speaker
And also, to be honest, like, and I hate to say this, but like, inclusive enough where we can be like, look, you don't agree with me, let's talk about this.
00:54:26
Speaker
And maybe, maybe there won't be movement on the other side.
00:54:29
Speaker
I mean, I don't think everybody's a good faith actor necessarily.
00:54:33
Speaker
Especially when they're, I think it's also especially when they're, they seem to be so far removed from, say, people with disabilities, when you're so far removed,
00:54:44
Speaker
how could you actually understand and support those who need that accessibility?
00:54:50
Speaker
It's almost like, yeah, it becomes this kind of, you know, complete disregard because they don't, you know, it's, yeah, it's very unfortunate.
00:54:57
Speaker
Yeah, and that's why I just keep making your art and putting it out there because there are, I think, some people, not everybody, but there are some people that just never...
00:55:09
Speaker
learned or don't really understand.
00:55:11
Speaker
And if they did understand, they would care, you know, like, I don't think that's everybody, but I do think there are people out there because if you think about it, we didn't, I mean, I don't, can't speak for you, but I did not learn about the disability rights movement in school at any point of my education.
00:55:26
Speaker
And so how do I expect other people?
00:55:28
Speaker
Like I'm invested in it.
00:55:30
Speaker
I learned about it later in life because I care.
00:55:33
Speaker
But if you don't have a reason to learn about it, there's many people like existing on this planet who've never thought about it before.
00:55:40
Speaker
And it doesn't mean they're necessarily inherently evil, but they're not educated.
00:55:47
Speaker
Yes.
00:55:47
Speaker
Yeah.
00:55:48
Speaker
You got to educate.
00:55:49
Speaker
And we are unfortunately in this modern climate right now.
00:55:53
Speaker
We are going to have to be the ones.
00:55:55
Speaker
The irony of using the word modern climate.
00:55:58
Speaker
unmodern.
00:56:01
Speaker
Isn't that kind of hilarious?
00:56:02
Speaker
It's funny, not funny, but anyway.
00:56:05
Speaker
You're totally right.
00:56:06
Speaker
Advanced, but not.
00:56:08
Speaker
But anyway.
00:56:09
Speaker
Present day.
00:56:10
Speaker
I'll just say present day, not modern.
00:56:12
Speaker
Present day.
00:56:13
Speaker
Oh no, you can use the word modern.
00:56:15
Speaker
Actually, it makes a much more powerful statement because it is quite ironic.
00:56:20
Speaker
Anyway, continued work to be done.
00:56:24
Speaker
Yes.
00:56:25
Speaker
You are such a multifaceted
00:56:27
Speaker
Completely inspiring, strong willed in so many ways, you know, absolutely beautifully opinionated and of course, a talented individual.
00:56:37
Speaker
Yeah, I've had such a pleasure speaking with you and getting to learn more about you and, you know, the extraordinary work you have been doing and you continue to do.
00:56:48
Speaker
To be continued off, you know, maybe on another podcast or something.
00:56:52
Speaker
This is actually my last podcast with the Berklee College of Music.
00:57:00
Speaker
It's a bittersweet, but thank you, you know, Daniel and Dr. Rhoda for really giving me such an incredible opportunity, especially during a double whammy of a medical illness that threw me off guard.
00:57:14
Speaker
And I didn't think that I would have...
00:57:17
Speaker
any projects to do because I hadn't been performing.
00:57:21
Speaker
So I thank them.
00:57:23
Speaker
And I thank you, Galen, for taking, you know, for taking the time out of your really busy, you know, schedule right now to hop on and, you know, share who you are.
00:57:34
Speaker
And yeah.
00:57:36
Speaker
And thanks for doing this.
00:57:37
Speaker
This is a good podcast.
00:57:38
Speaker
I'm excited to share it with people.
00:57:40
Speaker
Where can people find your work?
00:57:42
Speaker
Do you want to share?
00:57:43
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:57:43
Speaker
That's a great question.
00:57:45
Speaker
I have a website.
00:57:46
Speaker
It's violinscratches.com.
00:57:50
Speaker
Like cat scratch.
00:57:51
Speaker
Like violinscratches.com.
00:57:53
Speaker
I also have a sub stack.
00:57:55
Speaker
Um...
00:57:56
Speaker
it's just galenly.substack.com and it's, the title of it is Creative Living for Everybody.
00:58:04
Speaker
And I try to write about disability and the arts and how everybody can live a creative life in like literally everybody and just kind of expanding that conversation of personal development or artistic development to include people with disabilities.
00:58:23
Speaker
You know, and so that's
00:58:25
Speaker
important to me.
00:58:25
Speaker
And then I have Bandcamp.
00:58:26
Speaker
I have my albums up there.
00:58:27
Speaker
They're on Spotify.
00:58:28
Speaker
They're everywhere.
00:58:29
Speaker
But the two best places are probably my website and my subsect and then Bandcamp if you want to hear the songs that we talked about.
00:58:36
Speaker
Great.
00:58:37
Speaker
Oh, and be sure to mention your book one more time.
00:58:40
Speaker
Oh my gosh, yes.
00:58:41
Speaker
I will be releasing my memoir, unyet named memoir, in April.
00:58:48
Speaker
And if you want to follow along, I know I'll be writing about it.
00:58:51
Speaker
And I'm actually going to be sharing some
00:58:53
Speaker
of the things that got cut ahead of time with my Substack subscribers.
00:58:58
Speaker
Cause there's a lot, I wrote a lot more than is it going to end up in the final book.
00:59:02
Speaker
And so some of the stories I'm going to share on Substack ahead of the book release.
00:59:06
Speaker
So yeah, follow along there.
00:59:09
Speaker
Do you think you're going to write another book after this?
00:59:12
Speaker
I think what I'd like to do is write a book about specifically about how everybody is,
00:59:21
Speaker
in the world can be a participant in like personal and creative development.
00:59:27
Speaker
It just doesn't look the way that it's been shared in the past.
00:59:31
Speaker
Because I'm a big fan of like growing and learning and changing, but I feel like a lot of times you read books like that and it's like, don't think about disability.
00:59:42
Speaker
Don't identify with it.
00:59:43
Speaker
Like disability is bad.
00:59:45
Speaker
be grateful you're not disabled.
00:59:46
Speaker
The messaging is so backwards, so damaging.
00:59:50
Speaker
And so sometimes I'll be in the middle of a book that I'll really be enjoying and getting a lot out of.
00:59:54
Speaker
And then all of a sudden I just want to like throw it against the wall.
00:59:56
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:59:57
Speaker
Like stomp on it and like run over it.
00:59:59
Speaker
And so because it's the, the, the, the psychology of,
01:00:05
Speaker
how we think about disability as the opposite of growth or creative expression or of like potential is so damaging to so many people.
01:00:17
Speaker
And I just, I kind of want to write a book about that.
01:00:20
Speaker
And it's like collectively stunting.
01:00:22
Speaker
That's how it still feels, you know?
01:00:24
Speaker
Yeah.
01:00:25
Speaker
I mean, that's why people fear getting old.
01:00:27
Speaker
I mean, not to start a whole new podcast, but like, you know, when we talk about,
01:00:32
Speaker
your body changing, people really aren't okay with it because they can't picture a world where they could still be creatively happy.
01:00:40
Speaker
And you can.
01:00:41
Speaker
I have a song about that.
01:00:43
Speaker
It's called Hypnotized by Youth.
01:00:45
Speaker
It's like it's floating around on bank accounts.
01:00:48
Speaker
Speaking of aging, it's just more of a silly kind of, you know, funny, humorous, and yeah, painful take on being hypnotized by youth.
01:00:59
Speaker
Thank you, though, for this conversation.
01:01:01
Speaker
I really appreciate it.
01:01:02
Speaker
You're so welcome, and thank you.
01:01:04
Speaker
And thank you all for tuning into the Able Voices podcast on this last podcast.
01:01:11
Speaker
Well, me, but you can continue listening to the Able Voices podcast with other continued guest co-hosts on here because this is a fabulous space to be and super, super important.
01:01:21
Speaker
So please do join us, or rather join them, next time.
01:01:25
Speaker
to hear the latest on these wonderful up and coming artists living with disabilities who are currently making incredible change and impact right now in the creative industry.
01:01:35
Speaker
And here's to looking towards a future where disability and arts culture is simply just part of the norm.
01:01:43
Speaker
My name is Rivki and we'll see you next time.
01:01:46
Speaker
Take care.
01:01:56
Speaker
Able Voices is a production of the Berkeley Institute for Accessible Arts Education, led by me, Dr. Rhoda Bernard, the founding managing director.
01:02:05
Speaker
It is produced by Daniel Martinez del Campo.
01:02:08
Speaker
The intro music is by Kai Levin, and our closing song is by Sebastian Batista.
01:02:14
Speaker
Kai and Sebastian are students in the arts education programs at the Berkeley Institute for Accessible Arts Education.
01:02:21
Speaker
If you would like to learn more about our work, find us online at berkeley.edu slash B-I-A-A-E or email us at B-I-A-A-E at berkeley, that's L-E-E dot E-D-U.