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ABLE Voices Ep 85: Ethan Atterson
7 Plays4 months ago
We are inviting disabled artists and arts educators to be guests and guest hosts on ABLE Voices. Today's guest host, is Tara Allen.
Tara Allen (she/her) identifies as a queer, neurodivergent, and disabled music psychologist, music educator, advocate, and bass clarinetist. She holds a BM in instrumental music education with concentrations in instrumental wind band and bass clarinet from the Crane School of Music (2021), and an MA in psychology of music from the University of Sheffield (2022). Her master’s thesis, “The Bees Are Too Loud!: ADHD’ers Sound Preferences as an Aid Daily Task Completion" focused on how ADHD’ers used sound and/or music to help cope with completion of mundane tasks, and the combined social hardships. Her research areas of interest are: neurodivergence and music perception/cognition, learning, processing, behavior, and accessible music education. She has been advocating for neurodivergent and disabled musicians through a variety of platforms since 2020. She has a podcast, Breaking the Third Wall in Music, that invites disabled and/or neurodivergent musicians to discuss disability topics in the music scene. She has also spoken on the The Brave New Sound and Marching Arts Education. She has also given talks at universities, conferences, and organizations about neurodivergence. Lastly, she is a bass clarinetist and active performer in a variety of contemporary, classical, and popular music ensembles. Today, Tara will be speaking to Ethan W. Atterson.
Ethan W. Atterson is a researcher, conductor, and disability rights advocate based in Indiana. He is currently pursuing a master's degree in Orchestra Conducting at Ball State University, where he is graduating in the spring of 2023 with a Bachelor of Science and Music with a focus on composition. During his time at Ball State, Ethan has performed in several ensembles, including the Pride of Mid-America Marching Band and Concert Choir. In spring of 2025, he undertook an innovative research project aimed at expanding adaptable conducting techniques for musicians with disabilities. A paper detailing his findings will be published this spring. Ethan has been featured in news articles about his research, including coverage by Ball State University blogs and Inside Indiana business, which also aird on local television. He plans to further his research by incorporating assistive technology in the future. Ethan's other interests include humanitarian leadership and community building using musical ensembles as a platform.
The ABLE Voices podcast is produced and edited by BIAAE Operations Coordinator, Daniel Martinez del Campo. The introduction music was written by Kai Levin and the ending song was written by Sebastian Batista. Kai and Sebastian are students in the Arts Education Programs at the Berklee Institute for Accessible Arts Education.
For more information about our programs visit us at https://college.berklee.edu/BIAAE
Follow us for more weekly updates at:
Instagram: @BIAAE
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/BIAAE
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Transcript
Introduction to Able Voices Podcast
00:00:13
Speaker
Hello everyone and welcome to the Able Voices Podcast.
00:00:17
Speaker
I'm Dr. Rhoda Bernard, founding managing director of the Berklee Institute for Accessible Arts Education and the assistant chair of the music education department at Berklee College of Music.
00:00:27
Speaker
And I am proud to present this podcast featuring disabled artists and arts educators.
00:00:33
Speaker
We are inviting disabled artists to be guest hosts for the Able Voices Podcast.
00:00:37
Speaker
Our next guest host and today's guest is Tara Allen.
Meet Tara Allen: Advocate & Educator
00:00:42
Speaker
Tara Allen, she, her, identifies as a queer, neurodivergent, and disabled music psychologist, music educator, advocate, and bass clarinetist.
00:00:55
Speaker
She holds a BM in instrumental music education with concentrations in instrumental wind band and bass clarinet from the Crane School of Music,
00:01:05
Speaker
and an MA in Psychology of Music from the University of Sheffield.
00:01:09
Speaker
Her master's thesis, The B's Are Too Loud, ADHDers Sound Preferences as an Aid Daily Task Completion, focused on how ADHDers use sound and or music to help cope with completion of mundane tasks and the combined social hardships.
00:01:29
Speaker
Her research areas of interest are neurodivergent and music perception and cognition,
00:01:35
Speaker
learning, processing, behavior, and accessible music education.
00:01:41
Speaker
She has been advocating for neurodivergent and disabled musicians through a variety of platforms since 2020.
00:01:48
Speaker
She has a podcast, Breaking the Third Wall in Music, that invites disabled and or neurodivergent musicians to discuss disability topics in the music scene.
00:01:59
Speaker
She has spoken on the Brave New Sound and Marching Arts Education.
00:02:03
Speaker
She has also given talks at universities, conferences, and organizations about neurodivergence.
00:02:09
Speaker
Lastly, she is a bass clarinetist and an active performer in a variety of contemporary, classical, and popular musical ensembles.
00:02:22
Speaker
Hi, welcome to the Able Voices podcast.
Introducing Ethan Aderson
00:02:24
Speaker
I am Tara Allen, your guest host for the next few episodes.
00:02:27
Speaker
Today, I am joined by Ethan Adderson.
00:02:30
Speaker
Ethan W. Aderson is a researcher, conductor, and disability rights advocate based in Indiana.
00:02:36
Speaker
He is currently pursuing a master's degree in orchestral conducting at Ball State University, where he is graduating in the spring of 2023 with a Bachelor of Science in Music with a focus on composition.
00:02:46
Speaker
During his time at Ball State, Ethan has performed in several ensembles, including the Pride of Mid-America Marching Band and Concert Choir.
00:02:55
Speaker
He is also an alumnus of the new Epsilon chapter of Kappa Kappa Psi at Ball State.
00:03:02
Speaker
In spring of 2025, he undertook an innovative research project aimed at expanding adaptable conducting techniques for musicians with disabilities.
00:03:10
Speaker
A paper detailing his findings will be published this spring.
00:03:14
Speaker
Ethan has been featured in news articles about his research, including coverage by Ball State University blogs and Inside Indiana Business, which also aired on local television.
00:03:23
Speaker
He plans to further his research by incorporating assistive technology in the future.
00:03:28
Speaker
Ethan's other interests include humanitarian, leadership, and community building, using musical ensembles as a platform.
00:03:35
Speaker
He intends to focus his future scholarship on this area.
00:03:39
Speaker
In early December, Ethan will be a featured conductor at the
00:03:44
Speaker
IU School of Medicine Medical Orchestra's holiday concert at Riley Hospital for Children in Indianapolis.
00:03:51
Speaker
I'd like to start off by asking Ethan to tell us a little bit about his story as an artist.
00:03:56
Speaker
How did you start as an artist and how did you get where you are today?
Ethan's Journey in Music and Conducting
00:03:59
Speaker
Yeah, that's a very long loaded question, but I'd love to tell it.
00:04:04
Speaker
So in seventh grade, I originally wanted to play French horn and I kind of got driven away from that.
00:04:12
Speaker
and decided to do trumpet instead, which presented a bit of a challenge.
00:04:16
Speaker
Being physically disabled like I am, I couldn't exactly hold the horn upright, so I've had to construct an object made of PVC pipe to help hold my horn up a stand, so to speak.
00:04:31
Speaker
So from the beginning, I've always been looking at ways in which different technology and different objects can be assistive tools.
00:04:42
Speaker
in the music industry.
00:04:45
Speaker
Kind of where I started there, I did marching band for four years in high school.
00:04:49
Speaker
I sat up front in the pit and played.
00:04:52
Speaker
Then I got really interested in composition, where I started to write things and, you know, put ideas down on paper and stuff.
00:04:59
Speaker
Didn't quite know what to do with it yet at that point, but I decided to get, study my bachelor's degree at Ball State with an emphasis in music composition.
00:05:09
Speaker
And within that, I kind of, I kind of sort of lost,
00:05:13
Speaker
a little bit of interest in composition, not because I don't enjoy it, but I think it's more of a hobby for me.
00:05:19
Speaker
So I started exploring other areas of artistry in music, and conducting kind of found its way to me.
00:05:27
Speaker
Recently, I had come across a research article from the conductor James Rose, who is UK-based.
00:05:35
Speaker
He has cerebral palsy and has developed a similar technique to what I have developed with using the head to conduct.
00:05:43
Speaker
He is the person who came up with the idea originally, and my research aimed more to expand upon that, specifically using more pedagogical texts that conducting teachers would use to teach a conducting class now.
00:05:58
Speaker
And like Tara said, I'll be publishing a paper with my findings soon, which I am very, very excited to do.
00:06:04
Speaker
Amazing.
00:06:05
Speaker
Thank you.
Challenges and Advocacy for Disabled Musicians
00:06:07
Speaker
Next, I'd like you to tell us about your experiences as a disabled person and as a disabled artist.
00:06:14
Speaker
Yes, obviously I have a lot of thoughts on this subject.
00:06:18
Speaker
You know, the one thing that I think was the biggest obstacle to overcome is that there really wasn't a fair way to audition into the School of Music.
00:06:30
Speaker
I don't really play trumpet much anymore as it's kind of physically not really possible.
00:06:34
Speaker
It tires me out too much.
00:06:36
Speaker
And I started experiencing fatigue with that around my senior year of high school.
00:06:42
Speaker
And so going into my first audition, playing the instrument, I really didn't do that well, to be honest.
00:06:47
Speaker
And I actually didn't get into the School of Music the first time.
00:06:51
Speaker
So for the first semester at Ball State, I was undeclared major.
00:06:55
Speaker
And, you know, that gave me a lot of thought about
00:06:58
Speaker
my strong suit in music is probably more intellectual at this point.
00:07:02
Speaker
So why is it all physical, soloistic playing-based?
00:07:08
Speaker
Which makes sense in a lot of cases, obviously.
00:07:10
Speaker
But I think there should be a kind of like a process for making sure musicians with disabilities, all disabilities, and physical disabilities, especially with the fact that the ability to not play an instrument does not make you any less musical than your
00:07:28
Speaker
than your colleagues.
00:07:31
Speaker
And this should be kept in mind for people who want to study music.
00:07:35
Speaker
Maybe they aren't intended to play their instrument, but yet they can still contribute to the field in other ways, if that makes sense.
00:07:44
Speaker
For sure.
00:07:45
Speaker
What ways do you think that folks could contribute that aren't just performance-based, in your opinion?
00:07:54
Speaker
Yes, yes.
00:07:56
Speaker
Obviously,
00:07:59
Speaker
teaching to a degree and also coming up with new and innovative ways like I'm doing to make musical activities more accessible to all people.
00:08:11
Speaker
Obviously we... In your opinion, what do you think we could do that isn't just performance-based that contributes to the music industry?
00:08:29
Speaker
Yes, of course.
00:08:31
Speaker
Well, one of the most important things that comes to mind at the moment is activism within our industry.
00:08:38
Speaker
We have to, we need to make sure that more disabled voices are heard in terms of how we can make the processes for auditioning and or
00:08:54
Speaker
anything else, any other job that somebody would try to get in the music field is to try the way to make sure that there is a secure process or there is a process in place for when disabled artists or even disabled musicians who aren't really performers, we have to think about how can we make that process smooth and fair and equal?
00:09:20
Speaker
I think that's something that we really
00:09:23
Speaker
need to work on and we need to consult disabled people on that specifically.
00:09:30
Speaker
But some of the other ways I think we can contribute besides being an activist and advocating for a fair audition process, I think that one way I think that we can definitely contribute as disabled musicians who maybe aren't performers so much the scholarship side of things.
00:09:51
Speaker
Like I said earlier,
00:09:52
Speaker
the research into how we can make the art better for people, disabled people currently in the field and for disabled people in the future and how we can use that scholarship to kind of make more awareness of the inaccessibility in the music field, whether that be in a performing type situation or administrative or, you know, you're on an orchestra board or something, just a way to make sure that
00:10:23
Speaker
disabled people can be more fairly included in the arts, performing arts.
00:10:29
Speaker
For sure.
00:10:30
Speaker
You brought up a little bit earlier about difficulties with the audition process and its inaccessibility.
00:10:37
Speaker
Could you talk a little bit more about your personal experience with inaccessible audition processes?
Innovations in Audition Processes
00:10:43
Speaker
Yes.
00:10:44
Speaker
So one of the main things that I feel like I faced with the audition, number one, it was too heavily
00:10:55
Speaker
It was too heavily placed on mastery of an instrument, whereas intellectually, I had music theory.
00:11:04
Speaker
I understand complicated theory things at that point already, and I feel like it would have been a fair audition if they focused more on the intellectual side of things, seeing that possibility there.
00:11:15
Speaker
But some of the things in that process that were inaccessible, number one,
00:11:22
Speaker
with my physical disability, my hands are very weak and my fingers are kind of stuck in a certain position.
00:11:29
Speaker
And, you know, putting down the valves, for most of my time, I've basically was pushing down the valves slower than what the average person would on my trumpet.
00:11:43
Speaker
And it just kind of blurted up the sound a little bit.
00:11:46
Speaker
It affects the attacks and the releases of the notes.
00:11:50
Speaker
for one.
00:11:51
Speaker
And it just... It can be overwhelmingly fatiguing to have to practice that for hours on end.
00:12:00
Speaker
You know, another part of it, brass playing specific... Well, all instrumental playing is, but brass playing and wind playing, I know, is a very, very physical thing.
00:12:11
Speaker
That's the other issue, too.
00:12:12
Speaker
The breath support.
00:12:14
Speaker
I don't necessarily have the same level of breath support as the average person, either.
00:12:19
Speaker
So...
00:12:21
Speaker
for certain things that just made it really impossible to have enough air to phrase things in a more proper way.
00:12:32
Speaker
The other part of that I felt was inaccessible.
00:12:36
Speaker
Going back to my
00:12:38
Speaker
fingers and my difficulty there, that also translates to difficulty, say, on the brass instrument, we have all these different tubes we have to push in and out for tuning.
00:12:47
Speaker
Like on my trumpet, I could not push out my third valve slide.
00:12:51
Speaker
So the notes that I'd have to play with that were just going to be sharp.
00:12:58
Speaker
There's really not much I could do about it besides my best to lip it down where it needed to be, which also obviously affects the tone quality.
00:13:06
Speaker
I wouldn't have minded doing an audition like this if it were more bassed, because there's different... How do I put this?
00:13:13
Speaker
Like in the French horn community, they have their high horn players and their low horn players.
00:13:19
Speaker
I think in the trumpet community, that could be a little bit more of a thing, because the lower notes are obviously much easier for me to hit and sustain, at least for embouchure and whatnot.
00:13:33
Speaker
I can get a pretty good tone quality
00:13:35
Speaker
probably still could get a pretty good tone quality on those lower notes on the instrument.
00:13:42
Speaker
And thinking about something I thought about recently, in an ensemble situation at least, you know, you have other, you're with multiple trumpet players in an ensemble or whatever instrument you have.
00:13:54
Speaker
So if I have to stay out for a couple notes because I can't physically do it and then come back in when I can, preferably on a long tone, in that context,
00:14:05
Speaker
it would be more fair, I feel like, to focus on the specific strengths of the said trumpet player, or any instrumental player, and maybe understand that we might have to have a looser interpretation of what performance is to make our industry more accessible for people who are interested in studying music at that level.
00:14:31
Speaker
Yeah, what you're saying is essentially is incorporating disabled performance styles that will allow access for us to participate alongside our non-disabled peers.
00:14:46
Speaker
Yes.
00:14:48
Speaker
That's a very good thing that you bring up, actually, Tara.
00:14:53
Speaker
We as disabled musicians have to adapt, you know, adapt what we are... Well, let me clarify what I'm trying to say.
00:15:01
Speaker
There's only so much you can do to force your body into doing something that it can't do, if that makes sense.
00:15:08
Speaker
And so at some point you have to figure out how to make things work with the disabling elements of your disability and kind of use that to develop like, let me see what my friend is saying here.
00:15:22
Speaker
Our bodies can only do so much.
00:15:25
Speaker
Yes, exactly.
00:15:25
Speaker
And that we're being set up with an expectation from our industry.
00:15:29
Speaker
And then because we can't meet that expectation, a lot of times we aren't included.
00:15:34
Speaker
Like basically saying, like we really need to be included and there's a way for us to be, but we have to be willing to adapt and accept our performance styles that might not be as visible or as seen all the time.
00:15:48
Speaker
And you know, that revolves around for me,
00:15:51
Speaker
the idea of solo playing being heavy for music educators, which, I mean, makes sense to an extent.
00:15:58
Speaker
But, you know, for those of us who are maybe studying composition or other things where we don't really need to have the full solo experience, maybe our performance curriculum should be more based on ensemble participation in terms of how would you adapt the part to yourself and document that.
00:16:17
Speaker
I think that would be a fair way to be inclusive as well.
00:16:20
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:16:21
Speaker
A hundred percent.
Accessible Score Preparation Techniques
00:16:23
Speaker
So, Ethan, could you tell me a little bit about how you prepare a score as a disabled person?
00:16:29
Speaker
And what are some of the methods that you use?
00:16:32
Speaker
Of course.
00:16:33
Speaker
So, you know, I use a lot of, obviously, I use a lot of technology, which has its drawbacks, of course, but overall, the accessibility it provides is much more, is so much worth all the cons sometimes.
00:16:50
Speaker
But, um,
00:16:51
Speaker
Like for instance, the software that is available for sheet music, there's lots of wonderful software available for that.
00:16:59
Speaker
Where you can download the PDFs, your personal PDFs onto that, and then use your mouse to simply circle an area or type in something real quick.
00:17:10
Speaker
And this kind of ties in a little bit with my research too, of the accessibility of the technology and how it can make things more accessible in our field.
00:17:20
Speaker
There's a lot of helpful technology out there for this stuff.
00:17:24
Speaker
And, you know, part of my process, like I mentioned, I usually use an electronic score, PDF usually.
00:17:30
Speaker
Then I edit that score with, you know, whatever software I'm using, circle stuff, highlight things, put little notes, of course.
00:17:38
Speaker
So that's kind of how my early preparation of preparing a score for a rehearsal kind of...
00:17:46
Speaker
works out.
00:17:47
Speaker
I also tend to practice a lot, this is probably a pretty modern method, of using a lot of the scrolling scores on YouTube and conducting along with that, which is much easier for me because I can't really turn the page and the physical score that easily.
00:18:02
Speaker
And even though electronically there are ways to do that, sometimes clicking through a score gets a bit old too sometimes.
00:18:09
Speaker
So that's kind of part of my process of how I prepare a piece of music
00:18:14
Speaker
that's probably slightly different than most of my colleagues probably would.
00:18:19
Speaker
We would do things more pen and pencil, which honestly I'd prefer to do, but there's no way to adapt.
00:18:28
Speaker
This kind of speaks to me of that we can adapt things in our field if people are willing to do things slightly different than tradition.
00:18:36
Speaker
A little bit on that note, you're very active as an artist.
00:18:42
Speaker
I would love to hear more about your current work, more specifically, your master's degree work with accessible conducting.
Head Conducting and Nonverbal Communication
00:18:50
Speaker
Of course, of course.
00:18:51
Speaker
Well, right now I'm in my final year of my master's degree in conducting.
00:18:57
Speaker
A lot of my research was focused on using the head to conduct, and I'm sure they'll link some
00:19:05
Speaker
stuff that you'll be able to see in this podcast.
00:19:07
Speaker
But I have the baton strapped to my glasses right now using a zip tie and basically create the patterns of formations using my head to conduct.
00:19:17
Speaker
Which just presents some challenges, of course.
00:19:20
Speaker
Typically, conducting subdivisions is not easy to do with your head.
00:19:25
Speaker
I'll tell you that.
00:19:26
Speaker
And then, you know, you get to the more complicated meters like 7-8, 12-8, all that stuff.
00:19:34
Speaker
You know, there's a lot more movement that you have to do with your head.
00:19:37
Speaker
So trying to figure out how I can adapt the pattern in a way that's readable to the musicians and yet doable for myself.
00:19:46
Speaker
Which part of my research has pointed to conducting a lot of the big beats is very effective.
00:19:55
Speaker
A very effective adaptation to do as a physically disabled musician using the technique that I'm
00:20:04
Speaker
working on.
00:20:06
Speaker
Another area that's kind of difficult, which I thought would be the opposite of, but I figured out solutions for, it's actually easier to conduct legato with your head than staccato.
00:20:16
Speaker
I thought it would be the other way around, personally.
00:20:19
Speaker
But, you know, you have to staccato conducting.
00:20:23
Speaker
The way I currently do it, and I don't really like how I do it right now, is you kind of have to tense up your neck a little bit, which probably isn't very good.
00:20:31
Speaker
So I tend to stay away from conducting staccato too much.
00:20:35
Speaker
I'm still working on developing a method that is not so physically straining.
00:20:38
Speaker
Even if it's a little bit, well, kind of what I do now, I kind of add, my staccatos are more bouncy than rigid, if you know what I mean.
00:20:45
Speaker
So trying to develop and work on that and make sure it's distinguishable from any other style of conducting, that's one area I'd like to really focus on and improve on in my own work.
00:20:58
Speaker
The conducting of accents and marcato, that is pretty...
00:21:04
Speaker
You have to be careful with that because, you know, bigger motions.
00:21:08
Speaker
You don't want to hurt your neck too much.
00:21:10
Speaker
So I try not to use... That's the other part of which I'm going to be talking with some medical professionals soon, too, to get before I publish my paper about, you know, what are the risks involved with conducting with your head.
00:21:23
Speaker
You have to be aware that you don't overdo things, even if the music pushes you to.
00:21:28
Speaker
And so that's one thing that you really have to consider is how your pattern is.
00:21:34
Speaker
how wide your pattern is and how conducting in a certain way might be harmful to an extent too.
00:21:41
Speaker
Maybe harmful is one word I want to use, but you have to be aware of that.
00:21:46
Speaker
There are risks involved with that too.
00:21:48
Speaker
And you have to be able to make sure you're conducting in a proper way, as in too straining on your neck, which I say proper way.
00:21:58
Speaker
The style I do, the...
00:22:00
Speaker
the method I'm using, you know, there needs to become, I'm wanting a standardized version of that to an extent.
00:22:07
Speaker
Obviously, all conducting is a little different and all conductors are a little different.
00:22:11
Speaker
And, you know, my plan would be that that pedagogical framework would be able to be adapted to individual student needs.
00:22:20
Speaker
The other interesting thing I've come to find out, which we all know, as those of us who are conductors, the use of
00:22:30
Speaker
facial expression becomes really important in this aspect, in this type of style of conducting.
00:22:35
Speaker
And sometimes you can even get away without even conducting anything, simply just making the facial expression tells them exactly what to do.
00:22:45
Speaker
And that leads me to another point of that.
00:22:47
Speaker
Sometimes I have to take breaks in the middle of a piece from conducting, which, you know, with some of my teachers that I've had in the past and still I'm working with,
00:22:59
Speaker
If you're just waving the stick all the time, you're probably not doing a good job anyway, because there's so much more to it than that.
00:23:08
Speaker
But being able to lead the ensemble with other nonverbal cues, that's a really, really important component of the method I use.
00:23:17
Speaker
And with that, it can... How do I put this?
00:23:23
Speaker
It makes me very aware of how my interactions with the world affect other people.
00:23:30
Speaker
which philosophically can have all kinds of consequences in all kinds of different areas of life.
00:23:35
Speaker
Good consequences.
00:23:37
Speaker
You know, being mindful about how you use your body language and everything to communicate to an extent, and how we can influence change in the world with minute gestures like that, too.
00:23:53
Speaker
It's really cool to think about.
00:23:57
Speaker
And that kind of dives into a more deeper philosophical side of things.
00:24:00
Speaker
But in terms of the style of my patterns, I try to keep them pretty small.
00:24:07
Speaker
So that way when I make a big movement, like a cue or something, it's very noticeable.
00:24:12
Speaker
And I tend to conduct with a very... Which my teacher always gets on me for.
00:24:17
Speaker
I tend to conduct with a very wide pattern, which works to an extent, of course.
00:24:22
Speaker
But that's one of the challenges, is having to restrain your body while still
00:24:28
Speaker
while still being expressive.
00:24:30
Speaker
You have to find other ways to let the expressivity come out.
00:24:36
Speaker
The other part of that, there's development of some assistive technology.
Future of Assistive Technology in Conducting
00:24:41
Speaker
This is another part of my research project that is kind of being done separately from the rest of this.
00:24:47
Speaker
Right now, I'm currently about to work with some people, computer tech staff and people here at Ball State and IU.
00:24:58
Speaker
to create an electronic way of conducting, if that makes sense.
00:25:02
Speaker
So for instance, there would be a computer screen, and there's a little white dot on the said screen, and you move that dot in the way of whatever pattern you want.
00:25:12
Speaker
So you could do it in the formation of a three pattern, four pattern.
00:25:15
Speaker
And you do this via touchpad or mouse or whatever the person is most comfortable using.
00:25:21
Speaker
And that can make it so that simply the tap of a finger
00:25:25
Speaker
you can conduct an ensemble.
00:25:27
Speaker
And that would be a great way to make things more accessible.
00:25:30
Speaker
And to explain this better, the screen would be facing toward the ensemble with a pattern playing out on there based on how the person inputs it through however they input it.
00:25:41
Speaker
Whatever way it's best for them to input that.
00:25:45
Speaker
So that's another thing I'm really excited to get working on and get developed.
00:25:48
Speaker
And I hope in the next, at least within the next five years or so, there'll be a pretty substantially made
00:25:55
Speaker
there'll be a pretty good, I'm hoping that we will have a good active working product and not just a prototype.
00:26:05
Speaker
Which again, this is something that's kind of taken, because it's such a big project in itself, it's kind of become separate from my master's work.
00:26:14
Speaker
And so my master's work again is focused more on the
00:26:17
Speaker
head conducting method and all of that.
00:26:19
Speaker
But, you know, I really look forward to seeing where that goes too.
00:26:22
Speaker
Because that can make conducting, again, more accessible to so many different people.
00:26:26
Speaker
Both sound amazing and really extremely valuable to the disabled community.
00:26:32
Speaker
And I really look forward to what comes out of it and what assistive tech can be really helpful to increase disabled conductors.
00:26:41
Speaker
Yes.
00:26:41
Speaker
It's really amazing.
00:26:42
Speaker
No, it's really cool.
00:26:43
Speaker
I'm really excited.
00:26:47
Speaker
What advice would you give to a young artist with a disability?
Advice for Young Disabled Artists
00:26:52
Speaker
What advice would I give?
00:26:56
Speaker
It's a question I take very seriously, so give me a second to think.
00:27:00
Speaker
I guess the biggest piece of advice I would give is don't be ashamed of having to do things differently.
00:27:09
Speaker
You know, we have this mindset of, you know,
00:27:16
Speaker
It can only be, certain things can only be done in this way, which isn't necessarily true in a specific way, for instance.
00:27:24
Speaker
The other part of that, don't feel bad for doing things to, for using technology and stuff to help reduce your workload a little bit.
00:27:36
Speaker
You know, the assistive technology is there.
00:27:38
Speaker
Don't feel ashamed to use it.
00:27:40
Speaker
Just use it, and that way, you know, you can save on your own fatigue.
00:27:45
Speaker
And basically what I'm trying to say is if you have technology that can make your life easier, use it.
00:27:50
Speaker
Within reason, of course.
00:27:51
Speaker
But that's something you should, a young hunter, you should definitely consider.
00:27:56
Speaker
I also think the most important aspect, which I'm thinking now is probably more important than the idea of hard work, is I think it's the idea of perseverance.
00:28:09
Speaker
Perseverance, I believe, is probably the most important quality in being
00:28:15
Speaker
a successful artist.
00:28:17
Speaker
Number one, everything, you know, it takes a while to get to a certain professional status.
00:28:25
Speaker
So you have to be patient with that.
00:28:28
Speaker
You know, as us disabled people, sometimes we have to give it a break for a little while for our health.
00:28:35
Speaker
You know, and there's nothing wrong with that.
00:28:37
Speaker
You know, if you have to, quote unquote, give up for a certain amount of time, that's okay.
00:28:46
Speaker
If you, as long as you realize you can get back up at any moment when you're feeling like it and go for it again, if that makes sense.
00:28:55
Speaker
I think that's probably one of the most important qualities and also the idea that you have a vision that you're, a vision for what you want to do in the world and that you use that as your main driving force as well.
00:29:13
Speaker
And I'd have to say the one I hate the most, patience.
00:29:16
Speaker
I'm a very impatient person, unfortunately, but, you know, we disabled artists, the pace we move at is sometimes slower than other people.
00:29:26
Speaker
There's nothing wrong with that.
00:29:27
Speaker
It's just how it is.
00:29:29
Speaker
I've been thinking recently about how in education, in the way education currently is, how we're kind of made to learn a certain subject in a short period of time.
00:29:40
Speaker
To me, that's not really what learning is, though.
00:29:42
Speaker
Learning is a lifelong process, you know, and sometimes I think we're pushed to perfect something in too short of a time that really can't be perfected.
00:29:52
Speaker
But that's another topic entirely.
00:29:55
Speaker
But I would say that's some of the most important stuff that I would, advice that I would give to a disabled artist.
00:30:03
Speaker
I think that's spectacular advice.
00:30:05
Speaker
Yes.
00:30:06
Speaker
And I really hope some folks listening will take that advice because it's really necessary, especially as we're trying to build our own careers and in some other cases, our own identities than our career.
00:30:17
Speaker
So yeah, thank you so much, Ethan, for joining me today.
00:30:21
Speaker
And yeah, thank you to all the listeners for listening today.
00:30:24
Speaker
And I look forward to guest hosting this next episode with myself as guest host.
00:30:30
Speaker
And I will feel free to hear me then.
Podcast Credits and Additional Resources
00:30:33
Speaker
Thank you.
00:30:43
Speaker
Able Voices is a production of the Berkeley Institute for Accessible Arts Education, led by me, Dr. Rhoda Bernard, the founding managing director.
00:30:52
Speaker
It is produced by Daniel Martinez del Campo.
00:30:56
Speaker
The intro music is by Kai Levin, and our closing song is by Sebastian Batista.
00:31:01
Speaker
Kai and Sebastian are students in the arts education programs at the Berkeley Institute for Accessible Arts Education.
00:31:08
Speaker
If you would like to learn more about our work, find us online at berkeley.edu slash B-I-A-A-E or email us at B-I-A-A-E at berkeley, that's L-E-E dot E-D-U.