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ABLE Voices Ep 84: Sarah Lucas-Page
10 Plays4 months ago
We are inviting disabled artists and arts educators to be guests and guest hosts on ABLE Voices. Today's guest host, is Tara Allen.
Tara Allen (she/her) identifies as a queer, neurodivergent, and disabled music psychologist, music educator, advocate, and bass clarinetist. She holds a BM in instrumental music education with concentrations in instrumental wind band and bass clarinet from the Crane School of Music (2021), and an MA in psychology of music from the University of Sheffield (2022). Her master’s thesis, “The Bees Are Too Loud!: ADHD’ers Sound Preferences as an Aid Daily Task Completion" focused on how ADHD’ers used sound and/or music to help cope with completion of mundane tasks, and the combined social hardships. Her research areas of interest are: neurodivergence and music perception/cognition, learning, processing, behavior, and accessible music education. She has been advocating for neurodivergent and disabled musicians through a variety of platforms since 2020. She has a podcast, Breaking the Third Wall in Music, that invites disabled and/or neurodivergent musicians to discuss disability topics in the music scene. She has also spoken on the The Brave New Sound and Marching Arts Education. She has also given talks at universities, conferences, and organizations about neurodivergence. Lastly, she is a bass clarinetist and active performer in a variety of contemporary, classical, and popular music ensembles. Today, Tara will be speaking to Sarah Lucas-Page.
Sarah Lucas-Page is an award-winning composer and clarinetist who has dedicated her life to the art of music, and activism, and continually pushing the boundaries of her creative expression. She has been creating and performing new clarinet music with the purpose of helping fight injustice and bring awareness to issues within the LGBTQIA+ community, as well as women and neurodivergent people.
The ABLE Voices podcast is produced and edited by BIAAE Operations Coordinator, Daniel Martinez del Campo. The introduction music was written by Kai Levin and the ending song was written by Sebastian Batista. Kai and Sebastian are students in the Arts Education Programs at the Berklee Institute for Accessible Arts Education.
For more information about our programs visit us at https://college.berklee.edu/BIAAE
Follow us for more weekly updates at:
Instagram: @BIAAE
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/BIAAE
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Able Voices Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
Music
00:00:13
Speaker
Hello everyone and welcome to the Able Voices Podcast.
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Speaker
I'm Dr. Rhoda Bernard, founding managing director of the Berklee Institute for Accessible Arts Education and the assistant chair of the music education department at Berklee College of Music.
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And I am proud to present this podcast featuring disabled artists and arts educators.
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Speaker
We are inviting disabled artists to be guest hosts for the Able Voices Podcast.
Introducing Guest Host Tara Allen
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Speaker
Our next guest host and today's guest is Tara Allen.
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Tara Allen, she, her, identifies as a queer, neurodivergent, and disabled music psychologist, music educator, advocate, and bass clarinetist.
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Speaker
She holds a BM in instrumental music education with concentrations in instrumental wind band and bass clarinet from the Crane School of Music,
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and an MA in Psychology of Music from the University of Sheffield.
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Speaker
Her master's thesis, The Bees Are Too Loud, ADHDers Sound Preferences as an Aid Daily Task Completion, focused on how ADHDers use sound and or music to help cope with completion of mundane tasks and the combined social hardships.
00:01:28
Speaker
Her research areas of interest are neurodivergent and music perception and cognition,
00:01:35
Speaker
learning, processing, behavior, and accessible music education.
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Speaker
She has been advocating for neurodivergent and disabled musicians through a variety of platforms since 2020.
00:01:48
Speaker
She has a podcast, Breaking the Third Wall in Music, that invites disabled and or neurodivergent musicians to discuss disability topics in the music scene.
00:01:59
Speaker
She has spoken on the Brave New Sound and Marching Arts Education.
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She has also given talks at universities, conferences, and organizations about neurodivergence.
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Lastly, she is a bass clarinetist and an active performer in a variety of contemporary, classical, and popular musical ensembles.
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Welcome to the Able Voices Podcast.
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My name is Tara Allen, and I'll be your guest host for the next few episodes.
Sarah Lucas Page's Artistic Journey
00:02:28
Speaker
Today, we are joined by Sarah Lucas Page.
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Sarah Lucas Page is an award-winning composer who has dedicated her life to the art of music, activism, and continually pushing the boundaries of her creative expression.
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She has been creating and performing new clarinet music with the purpose of helping fight injustice and bring awareness to issues within the LGBTQIA plus community, as well as women and neurodivergent people.
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Hi, I am Sarah.
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I'm really excited to be here today.
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Thank you so much, Tara, for that introduction.
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Awesome.
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Super happy to have you, Sarah.
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Our first question is, I'd like to start off by asking you to tell us your story as an artist.
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How do you start as an artist and how did you get to where you are today?
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That is such an interesting question.
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So I started playing clarinet when I was nine years old.
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And I kind of, it just kind of suited me.
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Like, it just kind of, clarinet was just me.
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And by the time I got to high school, I was like, well, I'll just do band.
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And then I started writing my own music and arranging music.
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And I did choir.
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And by the time I was a senior and trying to decide where I was going to, like, go to college, what I was going to do, I kind of just decided, well, music is, like, the thing I'm good at.
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So I will go do that.
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And...
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I went to a community college and then university, and I really just kind of developed my own sense of artistry and who I wanted to be as an artist.
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I mean, I would love to hear a little bit more about maybe the specifics of what you mean by your own artistry, because I think as artists and musicians, our artistry is so unique to ourselves.
00:04:13
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Yeah, I really wanted to start creating music that meant something.
00:04:20
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I guess to everyone that like means different things, but something that when it goes back to like activism, how music can say so many things.
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I wanted my music, both my performances and the music I wrote to fight for something that I believed in.
00:04:37
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Awesome.
00:04:37
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Thank you.
00:04:39
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Our next question is, I'd like you to tell us about your experiences as a self-identified neurodivergent artist.
Creating Purposeful Music as Activism
00:04:47
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Yeah.
00:04:48
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So I recently was diagnosed with ADHD, I would say about five years ago, and it has been
00:04:56
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Quite an adventure to navigate that about myself and like learning those things and learning tools.
00:05:04
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And as someone who's been largely a part of academia, it is very interesting the differences that
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like before I knew for sure, and then after.
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And self-advocating and trying to navigate music academia as a neurodivergent person, it's been interesting.
00:05:27
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And so it kind of goes back to where I like to create music that has a purpose and that it's just important to bring up those issues.
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I think outside of academia, it's been really nice finding the people that I connect with on this level, like you, Tara.
00:05:50
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Oh, 100%.
00:05:51
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Yeah.
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And finding the people that are my people, and especially on social media, it's been really nice to be able to create art with other people and connect on our neurodivergent level.
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kind of on a little bit.
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I have a bit of a follow up question.
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Yeah.
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What advice would you give to young neurodivergent clarinetist musicians, artists who are starting to learn how to advocate for themselves in the industry and their voice, just from your own experience?
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Yeah.
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I feel like any musician and just like any artist, it's you are worth so much and worth so much more than you believe.
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Whether you are a neurodivergent or not, advocating for yourself and for what you need is the most important.
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And never stop fighting for what you need.
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100%.
00:06:53
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I know that our listeners would like to hear about the arts education that you
Educational Path and Academic Experiences
00:06:57
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received.
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Can you talk about how you learned in the arts and how you continue to learn in the arts today?
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Yeah, I started my arts and music journey at Glendale Community College in Glendale, Arizona.
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It was the first time I was actually taking music more seriously than I was before, just practicing a ton.
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That's also where I started to write music a little bit more than I was in high school.
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And I feel like that those steps I took at the community college really helped me with knowing that like, oh yeah, this is definitely where I'm supposed to be.
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And I was doing a music education program there at the community college.
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And I kind of realized about myself that I love teaching and
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I love learning, but I don't know if like public school was really the best option for me.
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And especially with a music education degree, that's kind of the like career path that you have if you only do a bachelor's degree.
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And so from there, I decided I was going to transfer to Arizona State and I did a music composition degree and I graduated from there in 2023.
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I am so happy with that decision now because I still get to teach and I love it.
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But now I feel like I have way more career paths open.
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And it's also why I even decided to like go to grad school was that just knowing that I could and then I had more career paths open than just teaching.
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So I went to Western Washington University for my master's.
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And I feel like that's
00:08:46
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really where my artistry really flourished in Washington State.
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I was just really supported, not only just as a musician, but as a neurodivergent person.
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The school is just so welcoming and so helpful, and the professors are amazing.
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I'm going to shout out one of my most favorite professors, Dr. Felicia Youngblood.
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I love her so much.
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She not only just helped me with...
00:09:12
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like just like loving myself as a person in music and like knowing that I have a space here but just like she's also a neurodivergent musician and teacher and professor and scholar and it was really amazing to see that kind of amazing representation as my professor so yes Dr. Felice Youngblood look her up she is amazing um
00:09:38
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And after my master's, I just graduated.
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I just started my doctorate program at University of North Carolina, Greensboro, where I'm actually doing clarinet performance instead of composition.
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because I wanted more options for careers and more options to teach.
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And I just wanted to focus more on playing now than just writing.
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And it has been such a great adventure living all over the country and learning so many different things, not only just about myself and like school wise, but just learning so much about the country and the culture and the people that live here.
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It's really, really been fun and interesting.
00:10:17
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Yeah, I think the important thing is always like for people who are listening is like our careers are fluid and they're not always rigid.
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And that's the best part about learning and going new places.
Compositional Styles and Influences
00:10:29
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You know, you've talked a few times about a variety of career opportunities.
00:10:34
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For you, what would you think, given your many qualifications, I would say many hats, because it seems like you would probably want a few options at the same time.
00:10:44
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What would that look like for you once you graduate with your PhD, do you think?
00:10:48
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Or are you hoping for?
00:10:50
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I think my perfect dream scenario is that I have
00:10:57
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A community college job where I am teaching clarinet and composition, maybe like a music history or music theory kind of course where I get to teach at a college level.
00:11:09
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But then I'm also playing like in a community orchestra or if I move back to Washington, maybe joining like Formation Wind Band, which is an all-
00:11:19
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women, went ensemble, and then writing music, maybe for myself, maybe for other people.
00:11:26
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That's kind of like my dream scenario is to teach college and play on the side and write music and
00:11:33
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What are your niche composition areas and styles that you like writing in?
00:11:38
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I'd love to learn more.
00:11:39
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I obviously know clarinet because I see all the clarinet music from the clarinet community, being one myself.
00:11:47
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It is so hard.
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So I actually really loved writing.
00:11:52
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I don't say loved as in past tense, but I love writing wind band music.
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I think like growing up as a band kid, I just love it.
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And so I really wanted to like primarily write
00:12:03
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band music.
00:12:05
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But I think like the year, like starting like 2022, I like got my first big girl commission to write a clarinet quartet.
00:12:15
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And then like for ever since then, it was just like clarinet, clarinet, clarinet, because I just kept getting asked to write for clarinet.
00:12:23
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So I mean, like, what am I gonna do?
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Say no.
00:12:27
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Um, and so I kind of like made a name for myself just writing for clarinets.
00:12:31
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And
00:12:33
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I would say kind of like my niche styles.
00:12:36
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I think it just depends.
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Because I have a couple pieces that like rely heavily on like fixed media, almost like EDM kind of beats.
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But then I also write really, I don't want to say classically,
00:12:49
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like style but um like I just finished a piece for clarinet and piano that is like much more like romantic style music but like my own little twists of like kind of like jazz harmony of like sixth and ninths and chords and stuff but then I'm also writing a lot of funk music and so like I I don't think I have like one particular niche or style I I like to write all kinds of different music
00:13:17
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And I think, I think that's why I get asked to write so much because I can, can just like put on so many different like style hats of like, Oh, what do you want?
00:13:26
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Okay.
00:13:26
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I got it.
00:13:27
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But I think that makes it a great composer though.
00:13:29
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You know, you're producing music that everyone wants to hear and listen to and everyone can enjoy in some capacity, which is really great.
00:13:40
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Yeah.
00:13:40
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I remember, um,
00:13:41
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Like one of my like composition studio classes, there was a visiting professor that came in.
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He was like,
00:13:49
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Yeah, we play the music we like to play, but then we write the music we like to listen to.
00:13:56
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And I was like, that's so valid because I love playing like romantic era Brahms, French competition pieces.
00:14:05
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But I love to listen to like Michael Lowenstern.
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And so there's like a really, I feel like that's a really good mix of like what I like to play versus what I'm writing.
00:14:18
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As a music psychologist, I know exactly what you're talking about.
00:14:22
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Our music reflects in our memories and the things that we like.
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And it's both preference of what we listen to and what we write and what we create.
00:14:31
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Yeah.
00:14:32
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It's very cool.
Featured Composition: 'Neurodivergent'
00:14:33
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Kind of on topic.
00:14:36
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I understand that you have a bit of music you'd like to share with us.
00:14:39
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Can you please tell us a little bit about what we're going to listen to?
00:14:42
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Yeah.
00:14:45
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So...
00:14:46
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In my journey of understanding that I am a neurodivergent person and that I have ADHD and that all of my little suspicions of who I was was accurate.
00:14:58
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Kind of coming to terms and just learning more about myself, I wrote this piece called Neurodivergent for bass clarinet and fixed media.
00:15:08
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And kind of how I wrote the piece is I use different pitches to like create the word neurodivergent.
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here throughout like the beginning and throughout the piece as a whole.
00:15:21
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It was a very healing journey to write this piece and kind of
00:15:27
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putting all of my emotions out there in the music where there's like huge drop, like bass drops and that like quickly turn into beautiful lines with like harp and vibraphone with the bass clarinet.
00:15:43
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And I did this just because of how I know my brain works.
00:15:47
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I'm just like switching sounds.
00:15:50
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from like being okay to not being okay so quickly.
00:15:55
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Yeah, and I just really love this piece.
00:15:59
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And so I wanted to share it not only because I feel like it fits the topic of this podcast, but because I feel like that's where I got my start of writing like music that's for like activist purposes and for music that means something, it's for a purpose.
Research and New Projects
00:17:31
Speaker
Our listeners would love to hear about what you're working on today.
00:17:34
Speaker
Can you please tell us about one of or all of your current projects?
00:17:38
Speaker
Oh, so many projects.
00:17:42
Speaker
So recently, I just won a research competition for the International Clarinet Association.
00:17:50
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That's all about like body size and music performance.
00:17:54
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But more specifically, my topic is reshaping the stage, fat body politics and clarinet performance.
00:18:01
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And so yeah, I just won that research competition.
00:18:03
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So I'm currently working on an article right now for the Clarinet Journal about this research.
00:18:09
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So that it's really interesting, kind of a plug that I am also a scholar.
00:18:13
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And then some like music projects I'm doing.
00:18:18
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I have a consortium open right now for a soloist with choir, like instrument choir, not vocal choir.
00:18:26
Speaker
a solo instrument with instrument choir and drum set.
00:18:30
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It's really cool because my first commission by a saxophonist
00:18:34
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that we decided we were going to make multiple versions of this piece.
00:18:39
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Owen plays this alto sax primarily, and so he wanted an alto sax with sax choir and drum set.
00:18:45
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And I was like, well, let's make a bari sax version too.
00:18:47
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And I was like, oh, like, I want to play this.
00:18:49
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So let's make a clarinet version and a bass clarinet version.
00:18:52
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So I have four different versions of this piece up for right now that you can join the consortium.
00:18:59
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And it's funky.
00:19:01
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And for all the instruments, we'll include like multi-phonics and slap tongue and just like some really cool funky lines.
00:19:10
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I am really excited about this piece.
00:19:12
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It's called Pop It because there will be a lot of slap tongue.
00:19:16
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If you don't know what slap tongue is, it's like slapping the reed against the mouthpiece.
00:19:20
Speaker
And it sounds very poppy.
00:19:22
Speaker
It's like a thunking sound.
00:19:24
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It's like thunk, thunk, thunk.
00:19:26
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It's like an unpitched thunking sound.
00:19:28
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I love it.
00:19:30
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I love the technique.
00:19:32
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And I think it sounds really cool, especially on saxophone.
00:19:35
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And Owen does it really well.
00:19:37
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So I wanted to make sure we could showcase that.
00:19:39
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Yeah, so I'm really, really excited about the piece.
00:19:43
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My previous clarinet professor actually joined the consortium.
00:19:46
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So I'm like, I'm so excited.
00:19:48
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for her to direct my graduate program clarinet choir.
00:19:54
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I can't wait to see it and hear it.
00:19:56
Speaker
Is it recording?
00:19:57
Speaker
Sounds like it's going to be amazing.
00:19:58
Speaker
I do love a good slap-tongue sound.
00:20:02
Speaker
It will be.
00:20:03
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Owen's going to premiere the alto sax version, I believe it's November 22nd at Western Washington University.
00:20:10
Speaker
Yeah, you'll see lots of videos of the piece because I'm so excited about it.
00:20:15
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I can't wait.
00:20:18
Speaker
It's amazing.
00:20:20
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I can't think of any other projects.
00:20:23
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I'm still kind of sorting out through dissertation topics.
00:20:27
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I thought I would continue on my research about fat bodies in music.
00:20:32
Speaker
But I think because of where we are in the United States, I've been thinking about doing protest music.
00:20:44
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Really...
00:20:47
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like researching where it comes from and how we can use it to make a difference.
00:20:53
Speaker
Because it does, it makes a lot of difference.
00:20:55
Speaker
The arts are huge points of activism.
00:21:00
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So I was thinking about doing a commission project, creating music, all for protest.
00:21:06
Speaker
That sounds amazing.
Advice and Online Presence
00:21:08
Speaker
Finally, what advice would you give to neurodivergent artists?
00:21:13
Speaker
I think the best piece of advice I have is
00:21:17
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is you are good enough, you are worthy, and you have a space here.
00:21:25
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I think even now, I still struggle with like imposter syndrome all of the time.
00:21:29
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And so I always remind myself that it's like, I have a space here.
00:21:32
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I'm meant to be here.
00:21:33
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And you as a neurodivergent artist should know you have a place here.
00:21:39
Speaker
100% all around.
00:21:43
Speaker
Lastly, can you tell our audience where they can follow your work online?
00:21:49
Speaker
Yeah, I am heavily chronically online.
00:21:54
Speaker
It is not good, but it means I update all of my followers all the time.
00:22:02
Speaker
I have an Instagram that I update the most.
00:22:05
Speaker
It is at Lucas Page Music.
00:22:09
Speaker
L-U-C-A-S-P-A-G-E-M-U-S-I-C.
00:22:13
Speaker
And that's also my Facebook.
00:22:15
Speaker
It's the same at.
00:22:17
Speaker
They're connected, so you probably get the same updates no matter which one you check.
00:22:22
Speaker
And you can also go to my website, which is also lucaspagemusic.com.
00:22:28
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I just try to keep it easy.
00:22:30
Speaker
She has a lot of amazing music on her page.
00:22:33
Speaker
You should totally go purchase it.
00:22:34
Speaker
It's great.
00:22:36
Speaker
Thank you.
00:22:38
Speaker
I personally purchased.
00:22:39
Speaker
Spectacular.
00:22:42
Speaker
I'm still waiting for your performance of Neuro Divergent.
00:22:47
Speaker
You know, in the near future.
00:22:48
Speaker
In the near future.
00:22:51
Speaker
It would be fitting for sure.
00:22:55
Speaker
Maybe we can work on a collab.
00:22:59
Speaker
I am always down for collapse.
00:23:02
Speaker
Oh, let's go, Sarah.
00:23:06
Speaker
Again, thank you, Sarah, for taking your time to speak with us today.
00:23:10
Speaker
More so me, but also the audience.
00:23:12
Speaker
And I'm sure everyone has loved getting to know you and hearing about your work.
00:23:15
Speaker
So thank you so much.
00:23:17
Speaker
Yeah, thank you guys so much for having me.
00:23:19
Speaker
I really appreciate it.
00:23:21
Speaker
And I hope to hear more neurodivergent artists come on soon.
Podcast Credits
00:23:34
Speaker
ABLE Voices is a production of the Berkeley Institute for Accessible Arts Education, led by me, Dr. Rhoda Bernard, the founding managing director.
00:23:43
Speaker
It is produced by Daniel Martinez del Campo.
00:23:46
Speaker
The intro music is by Kai Levin, and our closing song is by Sebastian Batista.
00:23:52
Speaker
Kai and Sebastian are students in the arts education programs at the Berkeley Institute for Accessible Arts Education.
00:23:59
Speaker
If you would like to learn more about our work, find us online at berkeley.edu slash B-I-A-A-E or email us at B-I-A-A-E at berkeley, that's L-E-E dot E-D-U.