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ABLE Voices Ep 92: Amanda Barr
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We are inviting disabled artists and arts educators to be guests and guest hosts on ABLE Voices. Today's guest host is Carly "Car" Reigger.
Carly “Car” Riegger is a chronically ill and disabled artist, writer, curator, and advocate from Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA. They utilize porcelain and installation artworks to express inner feelings and narratives of disability. Riegger has organized several important exhibitions for artists with disabilities through the National Council on Education for the Ceramic Arts (NCECA) including #CripClay in Cincinnati, OH in 2023, and Outpour in Detroit, MI in 2026. Riegger is also the recipient of the 2024 Midwest Artists with Disabilities Award. They hold an MA in Disability Studies from The City University of New York and are currently pursuing an MFA in Studio Art from the University of Wisconsin-Madison. Both Riegger’s artwork and career goals involve disability inclusion and rights. They are working to expand how the arts communities work with artists with disabilities and how disability communities utilize art to express complex disabled ideas. Today, Car will be speaking to Amanda Barr.
Amanda Barr is an artist, educator, and writer, and activist, currently working as an adjunct professor in Iowa, teaching ceramics and art history. In a former life, she was a Spanish professor. For an epileptic kid with HEDS and undiagnosed AuDHD who wasn't supposed to finish high school, she's done all right. Three master's degrees, shown own art around the world, lived on three continents, and published in two languages
Follow Car on Social Media:
Website: www.carlyriegger.com
Instagram: @carlyriegger
Follow Amanda on Social Media:
Website:https://www.amandambarr.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/amandambarr/
The ABLE Voices podcast is produced and edited by BIAAE Operations Coordinator, Daniel Martinez del Campo. The introduction music was written by Kai Levin and the ending song was written by Sebastian Batista. Kai and Sebastian are students in the Arts Education Programs at the Berklee Institute for Accessible Arts Education.
For more information about our programs visit us at https://college.berklee.edu/BIAAE
Follow us for more weekly updates at:
Instagram: @BIAAE
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/BIAAE
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Transcript
Introduction and Purpose
00:00:00
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you
00:00:14
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Hello everyone, and welcome to the Able Voices Podcast. I'm Dr. Rhoda Bernard, founding managing director of the Berklee Institute for Accessible Arts Education and the assistant chair of the music education department at Berklee College of Music.
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And I am proud to present this podcast featuring disabled artists and arts educators. We are inviting artists with disabilities to be guest hosts for the Able Voices Podcast.
00:00:38
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Today, you'll meet our next guest host, Carly Carr Rieger. Carr Rieger is a chronically ill and disabled artist, writer, curator, and advocate from Ann Arbor, Michigan.
00:00:51
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They utilize porcelain and installation artworks to express inner feelings and narratives of disability. Rieger has
Carly Carr Rieger's Artistic Journey
00:00:59
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organized several important exhibitions for artists with disabilities through the National Council on Education for the Ceramic Arts, including Crip Clay,
00:01:08
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in Cincinnati, Ohio in 2023, and Outpour in Detroit, Michigan in 2026. Rieger is also the recipient of the 2024 Midwest Artists with Disabilities Award.
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They hold an MA in Disability Studies from the City University of New York and are currently pursuing an MFA in Studio Art from the University of Wisconsin-Madison.
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Both Rieger's artwork and career goals involve disability inclusion and rights. They are working to expand how the arts communities work with artists with disabilities and how the disability communities utilize art to express complex disabled ideas.
Meet Amanda Barr
00:01:54
Speaker
All right, welcome back to Able Voices podcast. I am your guest host, Carr, and I have my last guest that I'm really excited to introduce, Amanda Barr. Amanda Barr is an artist, educator, and writer, and activist currently working as an adjunct professor in Iowa teaching ceramics and art history. In a former life, she was a Spanish professor.
00:02:18
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For an epileptic kid with HEDS, An undiagnosed ADHD who wasn't supposed to finish high school, she's done all right. Three master's degrees, shown art around the world, lived on three continents and published in two languages. Welcome, Amanda. Hi.
00:02:38
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Thank you. It's awesome to have you here. So i would like to start out asking you, like, how did you start as an artist and how did you get to where you are today?
00:02:50
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ah Yeah, I had a really roundabout start as an artist. I grew up on a farm. My dad is is a carpenter and his he builds houses, but his specialty is fine woodworking.
00:03:04
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And i both of my grandmothers are crafters. My maternal grandmother a big crocheter and my paternal grandmother loves rubber stamping and like stationary type stuff.
00:03:16
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So i grew up crafting with all of them. um I was always very good at that kind of stuff. So my dad worked with me a lot because I was a good helper and was obviously very interested in doing hands-on things.
00:03:33
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When I went to school, i had originally thought of going to theater for theater and was talked out of it because you know you can't make a living. So I went into Spanish and linguistics got all the way into my master's program and i got really, and don't think it's bored, but I got really antsy. Like I needed to use my hands.
00:04:00
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I needed to be doing something. and mostly I was reading books, looking at old books, typing things. And I just, I was going a little stir crazy. So took, I took a, like a six week summer,
00:04:17
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ceramic glass because it was there, it was available, and it looked the most outside of what I'd ever done before at just a local community art center. And I was really terrible at it.
00:04:32
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Like I could not make anything. And I think that came down to that my teacher was also like still a student in undergrad and didn't really entirely know how to teach yet.
00:04:44
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She got better, but I was awful and I was very frustrated and I was very, really pretty stubborn person. And I was like, no, I'm going to figure this out. I know I can.
00:04:55
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Like, I know I'm good at this kind of stuff, but why can't I do it? So
Overcoming Personal Hardships
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I did that over the summer between my first and second year of grad school and just kind of kept doing it.
00:05:07
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It took another class, took another class, finished my my thesis, got everything done to graduate there. and I had all this kind of free time while I was procrastinating writing my thesis.
00:05:24
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um I spent a lot of that time in the studio. maybe trying to work through a lot of my thoughts using my hands, which helps a lot.
00:05:34
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And then i got a job after I graduated teaching at a community college, and I was teaching night classes. had lot of free time, again, like all this time during the day.
00:05:47
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so i actually ended up renting a little bit of studio space at a co-op. And I was making work and I was just making work and I was just trying to get better and experiment with things like surface decoration.
00:06:03
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And so I started, I want to say 2007. And by the time 2010 rolled around, i was going through a really bad divorce and everything in my life had really fallen apart.
00:06:19
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it little personal, but my ex-husband left me for my maid of honor. And it it it it absolutely exploded my whole friend group. Like i was in a very bad situation. The only thing I really had that was stable for me was teaching because I was good at that and the studio because I could go in there and I could feel comfortable and I liked what I was doing.
00:06:49
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So I just kind of threw myself into that even more. got accepted to a couple of shows that I said, you know, why not throw myself out there?
00:07:03
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got picked up by a couple of galleries, which absolutely blew my mind. And kind of the next thing I know within a couple of years, I was almost full time making art.
00:07:16
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And I never, I never set out to do that because I never thought I could. I never thought it was a possibility to make living that way. I'd been pretty well convinced by the world that I couldn't do it.
00:07:29
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um And then suddenly I was. And it was it was working. i was doing it. wasn't becoming a millionaire, but I was doing it. And it was like the thing that was holding my entire life together.
00:07:44
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Suddenly it was kind the one positive for sure thing I had. that was getting accolades. And so i kind of pivoted and eventually went back to went and did residency, did a post-bac, went to graduate school again, and now I'm teaching.
00:08:05
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So I kind of full circle back into education, just something a little different. Yeah. Yeah, no, that's awesome. the part of how much ceramics kept you together. Um, cause I do, I feel like a lot of us, at least I've noticed have a really strong connection to our medium in different ways. Um, and next I'd like to ask you about, um, your experiences as a person with a disability, whatever you're comfortable with sharing.
00:08:36
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Yeah. Um, so I, I basically was diagnosed, um, with my seizure disorder when I was about five. So when I started school and and lived in a very rural, small town in Missouri, there was lot of stigma, especially around things like epilepsy.
00:08:56
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So i I, kind of fell back into books and I was a real big reader. Didn't have a lot of in-person friends. A lot of kids were told not to play with me because they might catch it. It's very,
00:09:12
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very country, very live backwards. So i think it's the fact that I did go into education and into art history and things like that makes sense because I was a very big reader, still i am, and dealt with the being told, you know, you can't graduate because you miss so many classes and you have one tiny seizure.
00:09:37
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They kick you out for the day, even though I could have gone back. So my attendance is was a really big problem. I was also just sick a lot. turns out your immune system is not great.
00:09:48
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So I was out. I missed a lot of school and it really affected my GPA. So it affected scholarships. So it's just been a lot of extra work. When I was an undergrad, one of the reasons I was originally going to go for a PhD in Spanish and I did it as an undergrad, there was a professor who spent a lot of time being very abusive about my disability. There was like, I was on a study abroad with this professor and there was a lot of making fun of me. If everyone remembers when Trump made fun of that disabled reporter, that is exactly what was done to me by this professor, but it was every day for three months straight.
00:10:32
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And I was called stupid and I was called lazy and, you know, everything under the sun. and reported it to the school. The school just said, well, they have tenure, so nothing we can do about it. We also kind of don't believe you because you're a student and students are lazy.
00:10:50
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So ended up in like a lawsuit, a whole thing, because the professor sued me for defamation, even though I had 14 witnesses, which ended up in a me suing back. And it was this whole thing.
00:11:06
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And so that's why I didn't go further with that. It's just, you know, I think part of the reason I ended up in Spanish, but also part of the reason that ended up with like pretty severe PTSD. And I don't think that helped my marriage any because I wasn't, I had like just finished all the lawsuits when I got married.
00:11:25
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So all of that kind of trickles in and In around that same time is when I found out about the Ehlers-Danlos and was having trouble with my back and my other joints.
00:11:38
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That didn't help any either. And so all of that, you know, hasn't stopped me from doing anything, but it has definitely made it harder in a lot of spaces.
00:11:49
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I think the the worst time I've ever had was in second grad school when I was in grad school for art and the pandemic hit, COVID first hit. and I'm there as the only disabled grad student.
00:12:03
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um The school did not know what to do with me and they kind of were so busy focusing on everything else that they just said, well, just forget about you. Like you deal with it yourself. um Actually, honestly, could you just drop out? Because you're a really big hassle.
00:12:24
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Like just just leave. Could you just leave? It'd be so much easier for everyone My department chair actually told me, wait, you don't even need this degree. It's not like you're gonna get a job. Disabled people don't work.
00:12:37
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To which I was like, hey, Kevin, um I've been a professor for 10 years. I've been i've been working. Obviously I do work. Like, I don't know where you got that idea, but definitely disabled people work.
00:12:54
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I know this is stressful for you guys, but like it's a little, more stressful for me. They weren't requiring masking at all in the graduate studios, which were open air.
00:13:07
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And so i was essentially there for a year where I couldn't even go into my studio. So there was a whole knock down, drag out fight with the graduate studio to extend my thesis for another six months because I couldn't work on it.
00:13:26
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I couldn't go into the studio because
Educational Challenges and Systemic Issues
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no one was concerned with protecting me. They were more concerned with other students feeling comfortable and in their own studios, being able to unmask and just be free.
00:13:41
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and that we're in this like global pandemic where people are dying every day and other people, like the people around me are more concerned with their own discomfort than with keeping me alive, which was just rough.
00:13:59
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And didn't, didn't really help my mental health at all. Aside from the, you know, staying inside, like being alone all of the time. So i definitely took a huge toll on me and I i almost did quit.
00:14:17
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And I definitely almost said, I don't want to do ceramics anymore because it's now it's painful. And maybe I want to do something else, but I'll say I did get really great therapy. I started neurofeedback for about six months and it helped a ton and I did get back into play and then I got a job, which was, that helped immensely, you know, having, having a job, being able to kind of throw two middle fingers up at the grad school and say, guess what?
00:14:54
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Employed, disabled people do work and we, We make good work. And we put on the Crip Clay show at NSEKA.
00:15:05
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And that definitely improved my outlook, seeing that people were not only, there were other people, disabled artists who were working and showing work and doing things and also talking about it in front of that audience and saying, we're here and we do matter and you need to make space for us.
00:15:28
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and stop saying things like, you're not going have a job or you can't be an artist if you're disabled. So making sure to like step back and look at the big picture and and talk to other people has definitely helped get me back into it and and keep going because there's definitely been some some downsides.
00:15:52
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Yeah, yeah. I think there's a lot that has been really important about bringing people together, especially just disability in the arts in general. And then especially in those smaller communities of different mediums like ceramics.
00:16:08
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And it's also like really helped me with my outlook too. And I think some others. So in in those spaces, can you talk more about like how you learned in the arts and how you continue to learn in the arts today?
Adapting Art Education
00:16:22
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Yeah, i so much of my learning comes from students. Because like I know my experiences, i know what I know, but so much more learning happens when, you know, students have questions that I haven't encountered before.
00:16:40
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And I have to, we go on a journey of discovery together a lot of times. Or, know, I have a a student right now who has um a terrible essential tremor in his hands, but we're on a wheel throwing unit. And so we are making it work.
00:16:57
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And he's doing all right, like just figuring out adaptations that we can do, um making it work. And I'm not, i am trying really hard not to be someone who's like, no, you can't just do, just can't do this. Like, it's not possible.
00:17:12
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Like, no, we weren't, we're going to adapt. We're going to figure it out. And in making those adaptations in answering random questions, I keep learning more about my own field.
00:17:27
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and keep improving, I think, my own artistic practice because everything that I learned new expands my knowledge adds to what I can use in my practice, which is, i think, what we all should be doing our whole lives, is always learning.
00:17:46
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um So, yeah, it's it's the students. It's got to be the students. Yeah, I feel the same way, and I think It's kind of exciting to have those different like approaches, like just kind of brought to you of like, how do I go about this? Cause both of you, at least in my experience, like both people are trying to figure it out together. um And in clay, especially that can be really an interesting experience.
00:18:17
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Yeah. wait There's always something to figure out. Right. Yeah. What advice would you give to um other artists with disabilities? i I never want to say like, don't let it stop you because there are certain, like I could never fly a fighter jet. Like I think about the things like I i can't be a pilot and I'm okay with that. Like I have a seizure disorder. There are things that I should not be doing.
00:18:44
Speaker
i always, you know, I'm a little sad about not scuba diving, but you know, that's my safety and it's someone else's safety too. Like the person who would have to rescue me. yeah, I guess what I'm saying is like, know what your limitations are, like understand your body. And like, I'm never going to make very large sculptures because I can't, I can't lift them.
00:19:09
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Even if I had like a ton of help, it would be, be dumb of me to even try to make things that I would have to manipulate my body in ways that it does not like to be manipulated. So I stick to If I want to make a sculpture, I make small pieces, put them together.
00:19:29
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So like adapt how you work and what you make to your needs so that you're not destroying yourself for your work. Cause like I used to make, I used to do, um, shows like the, the street fairs and the renegade craft festivals. And I was doing like a show every weekend So was putting up a booth and taking down a booth and like carting ceramics all over the country. And it was killing me. Like I was exhausted. i my body was wrecked because I was doing all this setup and tear down and I had to stop because it was just not sustainable.
00:20:10
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But also I was making like 50 mugs a day and both my wrists, I was in physical therapy for my wrists, my elbows, my shoulders. And when i stopped doing that, And I went to, like I went to school, started teaching more.
00:20:26
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i don't have to wear braces. Like I don't have to wear KT tape on my wrists or my my elbows anymore. I'm in and out of physical therapy still, because I will be with EDS my whole life.
00:20:39
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But once I started making my practice more sustainable for my body, i was, I'm a lot happier, because I don't hurt as much.
00:20:51
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And it made the work better too, because I wasn't forcing it. So like, don't push yourself to make work that doesn't suit who you are and what your disabilities are, because it's not going to be sustainable. It's not going to keep you going.
00:21:09
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And you're going to eventually, you're going to kind of resent it. i there You know, Jurassic Park, find a way. Yeah. Yeah. There are a lot of ways, like I've adapted my practice.
00:21:21
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to to suit that as well. And I think it just kind of personalizes like the practice even more to like you and yourself. And I think that's exciting.
00:21:32
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Yeah. Like I know I'm never going to work in a hot glass shop because I overheat super easy and that makes me want to pass out just thinking about it. So I'm going to stick to like kiln casting if I want to do glass or stained glass. I can do stained glass all day.
00:21:50
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Can you tell us about um your current projects that you're working on?
Exciting Projects and New Opportunities
00:21:54
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um Well, currently I've got three electric kilns that don't work in the kiln room. So that's what have to tackle next.
00:22:03
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But yeah, actually I have a little to-do list for myself of things I need to make. um i'm gonna I'm doing a project with with ah some folks I know from online. It's a fundraiser for Ramadan.
00:22:20
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for people in Palestine. And so I'm doing a couple of like online, um online courses, ones with PMC clay. We're just going to make little like kind of hanging decorations that are Ramadan themed.
00:22:38
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But I need to, I need to go get the PMC clay and then kind of mix it up and make the samples. And so I've just been sitting like kind of sketching, like, what am I going to,
00:22:49
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What are the cutouts going to look like? And I don't use PMC play very often. So I'm just kind of like, I'm a little bit hyped to work with a different material. And so these classes are like by donation and folks can join. And then i I'm also doing an advanced class for people who already know how to throw on the wheel, but it will be virtual in making tagines, the Moroccan dish that you cook food in.
00:23:20
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Uh, so I need to make a sample one because I also want to show how you cook in it. But that means I need to make one. So i just need to get out some of the earthenware and throw it a tagine and then actually ask someone for a recipe to cook in it. Cause, um, I've never made Moroccan food before I've eaten it. I've been to Morocco.
00:23:41
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i just need to make it and get the food in. um But I'm pretty actually excited to to do these classes and this fundraiser because and I've been pretty active in the Free Palestine movement for several years now.
00:24:01
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And it's exciting to, I can't, as a ceramic artist, like there's not a whole lot that you can do, but like to volunteer, to teach a few classes that can be donated.
00:24:13
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That was like, that's something that I can do. that works really well. Yeah, and I want to make some mugs for this ceramic conference. So I just got to find time between classes to get those made.
00:24:26
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, you have a lot of exciting stuff going on. Those classes sound super cool. And I've seen a lot of the um things online that are like auction based or teaching based where it's donated. And I think that's just like Yeah, like one of the best ways like that 3D artists especially can like get involved, yeah it seems. And I'm trying not to make anything too big because I'm actually moving in July.
00:24:53
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um i got a tenure track position in New Mexico to teach ceramics and art history. This position was like perfect for me. they It's in New Mexico, so it's they're very much Spanish speaker heavy.
00:25:09
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in there and they wanted someone who could specifically teach Latin American and other like kind of Spanish language central classes. So I was kind of the perfect fit. I do teach Latin American art history.
00:25:25
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I'm really, really excited. i'm trying not to make anything huge that going have to cart with me in July when I move, which is a ways away, but not so far away that I want to like make a bunch of work and then have to take it with me.
00:25:38
Speaker
Yeah, that's so exciting. i'm I'm really excited for you. I saw, i think, something about that on your social media. I think that's awesome. I've been trying not to, like, overshare about it because, it's you know, i'm not there yet, but it's it's kind of the perfect, perfect position for me. And I never thought I'd ever get a tenure track job just because i was I've adjunct for, like, 20 years now. I'm like, well, this is it. It's fine. I'll just be an artist and teach some, but...
00:26:07
Speaker
Here it is. Finally, the dream. Yes. Yeah. Can we ah know where to find your work online? Yeah. the um My work is mostly on my website, which may or may not have stuff in the shop at any given time. i think I have some mugs in my in my storefront right now. But if you just, it's myname.com.
00:26:35
Speaker
dot com So amandabarr.com will get you there. It's the nice thing about being an elder millennial is we jumped on those websites and the Gmail accounts that with our like just our name.
00:26:50
Speaker
Don't have to do anything crazy. So I'm pretty easy to find. um If you run into a website that has like ceramic cigarette butts, that's the other Amanda Barr who does ceramics.
00:27:06
Speaker
She's in North Carolina. She makes um a lot of things with like clay, cigarette butts and ashtrays. And I haven't ever, ever actually met her, but I've got a lot of emails for her.
00:27:18
Speaker
That's so funny. um Awesome. Well, thank you so much for speaking with us today. And it was great to have you on. And I'm so excited to see where you go.
00:27:31
Speaker
Thanks. And i've I've been watching your grad school work come along and it's great. Thank you. Finishing up the spring. So it's scary. And now I'm getting into the adjuncting side of things. And that's also a lot of work and scary. Yeah, it's a it's a hustle once you get out of school there.
00:27:52
Speaker
Yeah. But it's good. You'll learn so much your first couple years teaching. Like you can't can't make up for it with anything else. Like those first couple years are like you'll cry a lot.
00:28:04
Speaker
But like they make or break you. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Great. Thank you so much for being on with us today. You're welcome. Thanks for thinking of me.
00:28:17
Speaker
Thank you so much for listening in to Able
Conclusion and Contact Details
00:28:20
Speaker
Voices podcast. This is Carly Carr-Rieger. You can find me at Carly Rieger on Instagram or CarlyRieger.com.
00:28:29
Speaker
And it was so great to be a guest host on this podcast. I'm so excited to have shared a lot of my friends with everyone. And thank you so much.
00:28:47
Speaker
Able Voices is a production of the Berkeley Institute for Accessible Arts Education, led by me, Dr. Rhoda Bernard, the founding managing director. It is produced by Daniel Martinez del Campo.
00:28:59
Speaker
The intro music is by Kai Levin, and our closing song is by Sebastian Batista. Kai and Sebastian are students in the arts education programs at the Berkeley Institute for Accessible Arts Education.
00:29:11
Speaker
If you would like to learn more about our work, find us online at berkeley.edu slash B-I-A-A-E or email us at B-I-A-A-E at berkeley, that's L-E-E dot E-D-U.