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Everton - When the going gets tough, Dyche gets going
27 Plays11 months ago
Sean Dyche has Everton on-the-up despite their well-documented points deduction. Conor and Killian discuss the phoenix-like rise from the ashes for the blue side of Liverpool.
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Transcript
Introduction to Nada Pundit Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
I'm not into podcasts. I swear you'll never see anything like this ever again. What a hit. Back of the net.
Everton's Resilience Post-Deduction
00:00:13
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Nada Pundit podcast. I am Keynan Gennady and I'm delighted to be joined as ever by Conor Glennon. Oh, where are you going man? Are you getting on?
00:00:25
Speaker
I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. Um, I have been amazed by the Phoenix rising from the ashes that has been Sean Dyche's everything. Um, it's like when the going gets tough, the dice gets going. Um, 10 points deducted and they just seem to have hidden a brand new level. Um, I can't be the only one that's been amazed by this.
00:00:52
Speaker
Absolutely not. No, it's, it seems to be, it's, it's really clicking for them over there. And it's, it's, it's good to see, you know, in the, in the wake of what's going on there with the points reduction or deduction. So should I say it's, it's, it's really great to see. And I look, I mean, I don't want to be that Monday morning quarterback, but I think it was, it was definitely one of those ones where, you know, you look at the, you look at someone like Sean Dyson, I think he's someone that likes to be under siege at all times, you know,
00:01:20
Speaker
Oh, 100%. It was around the 17th of November that they got the points deduction, which for those that have missed, had their head in the sand the past couple of months, they had basically a financial fair play breach. And off the back of that, they got a 10-point deduction, which one would fear for the existence of Man City, considering they have 115 of them.
00:01:53
Speaker
But
Strategies for Everton's Survival
00:01:54
Speaker
since then, on the 17th, they lost 3-0 to Man United, beat Nottingham Forest 1-0, beat Newcastle 3-0 and beat Chelsea 2-0.
00:02:07
Speaker
That's unbelievable. Just when you think that they should be kind of down and out, like, regarding themselves as relegated, nominated, or whatever, they just have kicked it up a gear and Diesh seems to have really gotten the best out of Decoré. Even, um, is it Dwight McNeil scoring now? It's just, it's actually
00:02:31
Speaker
I think this season actually forever needs to be studied because if they manage to pull this off, this would be the greatest survival since probably Sunderland under Gus Poyette.
00:02:43
Speaker
or Eddie Howard born with when they had when they had their issues but I mean you look at everything and then you know everyone's going I know deserve he's doing an amazing job with Brighton and eighth how did this deduction not happen like everything are in ninth or tenth which is unbelievable you know and I can one thing I've been meaning to ask you this
00:03:04
Speaker
If
In-Season vs. Pre-Season Point Deductions
00:03:05
Speaker
you're a dice, would you rather go into the season? Like, you know, when you go into administration, say before the season, you go into it, you're like 17 points deducted. You're starting minus 17. Would you rather start from minus 17 or say in this example, they're 10 points in November they found out. So they've kind of had a chance to attack the league and then it's, yeah, it's a bit of a hit going, Oh Jesus, we're back down the bottom. Or so would you, would you take in season or preseason if you had to take the deduction?
00:03:32
Speaker
I would take it in season. I think pre-season. I'm the same. Yeah, I think pre-season will give you like a bad air around the club. Plus, it would change who you could sign. Because I think a lot of people would go, you know what? No, they're already relegation followers. Whereas now,
00:03:48
Speaker
They were doing pretty good. I think there were mid-table form up until this. And now it's like they've gotten a new hire because it's like that new fresh impetus kind of going, we have to prove ourselves here.
00:04:18
Speaker
All of them that don't have release clauses in their contract for education know if they go down there ways to get fifty percent capped my name and i got best there they're probably a fifty percent of their old wages so between that the two of those things and i'm showing the ocean there i'd i really thank you playing ball like this they will not struggle.
00:04:24
Speaker
Let's get going.
00:04:38
Speaker
No, and like, if you look at, um, they're like Disha's record now for this season with them, what, 16 games, seven wins, two draws and seven losses. It's not good, but God damn, it's not bad. But when you look at the spread for, for Everton this year, so it's like.
00:04:59
Speaker
They're scoring 1.25 goals a game. They're conceding 1.25 goals a game. Not great. Points average of 1.44. But then you look at them last year, and their goals scored are 0.89, conceded 1.5, and average points per game is 0.95. So compared to last
Everton's Upcoming Challenges
00:05:22
Speaker
year, they're in a much better position.
00:05:24
Speaker
It seems like things are working. Yeah, we could just be getting built buying into the hype of a good momentum room. But I really think they're, they're positioned well. And then, you know, if there's one thing in sports that can change everything, it's momentum. Oh, 100%. And like, when you look at who they have coming up,
00:05:41
Speaker
like let's not forget their EFL Cup run has given them something to really like be positive about it. So they have Burnley next in the league, the quarterfinal for the EFL Cup, then they have Tottenham City Wolves, that brings them to the end of the year and then they get like a two week break. So Burnley, that's a six pointer for them. That's huge. Yeah. But
00:06:06
Speaker
Based on current form, they could get points at Tottenham. They could scrape at least a point from City and on current form
00:06:18
Speaker
flip of a coin if who will win by tree and ale against wolves like it could kind of go either way um like i think it's it's really positive way to end the year and the other thing that could bring another fresh bit of positivity for them especially at this time is they could have new ownership by january
00:06:41
Speaker
Well this is the thing,
Premier League Unpredictability
00:06:42
Speaker
you could look at this objectively as an evident fan and go, it's a really terrible time at the club, you're just off relegation. But at the same time, like you said, they're in the quarter fans of the EFL. If they get a good result in that, they're into the semis, which is a huge boost for the fans. They got new owners in January.
00:07:01
Speaker
For all we know that that ten points could go down to like five points or six points on appeal So I wouldn't be as panic stations as I thought I would have been if I was an evident fan when that November date happened and the ten points came in because
00:07:19
Speaker
Again, I don't buy too much into the hype, but it really seems like, it's like with Anjbol, you could see it just really clicked, or even with Villa, you look at the way they are this season compared to last season, it's just, we talked about this last week in terms of coaches needing to have a framework and a format, and it seems like that is finally coming together at Everton.
00:07:41
Speaker
Well, see, that's the beauty of why and why I'm kind of buying into this hype. Same with Angiball. It's a hype you can buy into because Angiball is high risk, high reward. So it's going to be amazing and entertaining. And when it goes well, it'll go really, really well. When it goes wrong, it'll go really well. That's fine. But what we're seeing now with Everton is a pure dice system.
00:08:06
Speaker
in the sense of what he has done at Burnley which is all we can really say because that's the only proper time we've got to see him and because like if you consider the last couple of games like Chelsea play very good football on the Pochettino they're passing the ball they're very technical and they thoroughly bet them like I know Chelsea have their issues and all but
00:08:30
Speaker
you're not you're not going to consider Dwight McNeil and Sterling to be on the same level and yes god no one of them scored and the other one didn't um so like the fact that they're winning these games against different systems and like they're actually adjusting to it like this is the first time they've won three games on the bounce since Carlo and July
00:08:54
Speaker
Which is mad. And the fact that they ever had Carlo Ancelotti is also just absolute madness. But that aside, that's a very interesting stat. Up until Diesch, the previous tree managers of Everton have managed Chelsea. Ancelotti, Rafa Benitez, Frank Lampard. That's funny. That's very funny.
00:09:20
Speaker
When you look at Chelsea, it's the same thing that they'll face against Spurs. Newcastle, yeah, we got absolutely battered by Spurs. But Spurs didn't play incredible football. It's not like they're playing some man city pep football. They're beatable. And they're also, in their own way, struggling for form of late. That was their fourth game. That was going to be their fourth game, losing a home if they hadn't beaten us.
00:09:48
Speaker
Mm. Like in a row. Yeah, like. One thing I'm very, very excited to see with this team now is like. Can they be teams that are informed? So Newcastle had been doing very good, but I haven't a little kind of mid season wane, which I think Champions League is weighing heavily on you guys. Yeah, hugely. And like, I mean, it's it's it's a squad issue as well.
00:10:18
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And with Tottenham, I think they're in that kind of ground of people are starting to figure out the system. So they're just having to make their first readjustment, which is fine. Chelsea aren't doing good, but they're not doing terrible. So I mean, if you believe the media, it's panic stations for Chelsea, but I don't agree. And I don't think you do either.
00:10:45
Speaker
With Bowley, I just don't know. He's such an unknown entity. Like he was so vocal initially and now he seems to have taken a step back from doing that so nobody can kind of get a gauge of him. So like you have to judge him by his actions and his actions is he fires managers quickly or without real just cause. So could he get a little bit scared? Like I know some Chelsea fans are
00:11:11
Speaker
worried about it and they would be devastated to lose pot because as we said last week, they're not going to get any better. There is no better manager out there. They just need to wait for it to click.
00:11:26
Speaker
but like
Everton's Relegation Battle
00:11:27
Speaker
where I think Everton should take real, real heart is there are teams worse than them but the teams that are better than them can be better on their day and Chelsea has proven that. Yeah and I do think you know even with City's dominance last season and they're playing good football I know Haaland's got
00:11:51
Speaker
some sort of a knock at the moment. It doesn't seem too long term, but and I don't, I don't want to sound like Gary Neville now saying the Premier League is the best league in the world, but it is really this year. It does feel like anyone, I won't say can beat anyone, but anyone can get a result against anyone.
00:12:07
Speaker
Yeah well I think that's always kind of been the beauty of the Premier League is like even look at like sure look at Sunland when we were perennial relegation candidates in them same years so say I actually have it up on my board here uh 14th of the 11th 2010 Sunland bet Chelsea 3-0 at Stamford Bridge ending uh I think
00:12:30
Speaker
I'm not sure if it was that game, but we ended Jose Mourinho's- Oh, the whole reign of like 10 years or whatever. Yeah. From his first spell at Chelsea until he returned to Chelsea. So there's always been this kind of, in a way that I don't think La Liga has, in a way that Bundesliga
00:12:52
Speaker
feels a lot more fluke-y than when it happens in the Premier League. It's that kind of clash of the styles and if you get the tactics wrong on that day, well then you were just outmatched on the day. Whereas I think with Bundesliga it's kind of nearly like, oh well, Neuer was sick. So.
00:13:14
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, there's always an excuse to, and I remember Mourinho went something and it did end them, he went ape at his players. And it wasn't because they lost, it's because they were beaten, deservedly so. That's the thing, and it's, you know, one thing I like about the likes of a
00:13:32
Speaker
marina or do you see me only order so is any manager of that that's more passionate than most managers when they lose if they're beaten by good football at least publicly they don't shame the team but i think in
00:13:50
Speaker
Games like that where I think Mourinho would have been annoyed regardless of who ended that, but the fact that he would deem Sunderland not on his level, I think that's what do I kind of bled into that reaction more so than anything.
00:14:04
Speaker
Oh, yeah, yeah. But back to Everton, who are our current Phoenix and Bournemouth in the same token, considering we were kind of putting Iriola up for potential. Yeah, yeah. Like, I think he's I don't think he's out of the woods, but I think he's currently proving us wrong. But look at Everton now. They're what, 17th? So they're not out of the woods.
00:14:32
Speaker
by any stretch but it's looking good though yeah do you think they can stay up i think they can i really now look i think like every other team they need injuries to go their way they need a couple of big days out at the the kind of bigger teams not that ever in art i personally love ever done as a football team i i always have but i think they they need to go in there with the belief that they can
00:15:00
Speaker
beat anyone at any stadium at any time and that's the only way they'll stay up. Like there are currently four points clear of Luton in 18th which is good because I think between Luton Burney and Sheffield they will pick up points
00:15:18
Speaker
but I think it'll be slow. I've seen us go from being bottom on Christmas Day to surviving. So I know that teams can get this little boost and it can save them. So that's the kind of defense for Burnley or Luton, really. I don't think Sheffield. You look at that bottom four of Luton Burnley Palace, Sheffield United.
00:15:50
Speaker
I'd be absolutely amazed if Luton stay up. Sheffield United, I think, Eric Garner. I think Palace, it's between kind of Palace and Forest, you know what I mean, as to who that is. I don't see, like even the bottom from 16th down to 20th, I just don't see Everton being worse than those teams, you know.
00:16:10
Speaker
Yeah, and I think that's going to be a major thing for them is the fact that there is much worse teams than them. But I'm just looking here from the sun in the UK. So a supercomputer from betting expert or betting expert supercomputer called Betsy simulated this currencies in 100,000 times apparently.
00:16:37
Speaker
and what they believe is the most likely table will have Everton in 14th on 43 points. So exactly where they are right now. Okay, interesting. And then Burnley, Luton and Sheffield to go down, but they're predicting Arsenal to win by one point, which I don't know. Interesting. I asked the Villa to get fourth.
00:17:04
Speaker
Well, to be honest with you, like I don't think Newcastle are getting top four this year, injury problems and just other issues on the go. But if we're not to get anybody's watch, so yeah, TBC on that one. Yeah, like that
Sean Dyche Among Top Managers?
00:17:19
Speaker
said, if we if we don't get top four, I would be delighted to see Villa get top four. I don't know about you. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Just something different. Like we haven't seen it since the only it is.
00:17:30
Speaker
And I'd also love Arsenal winning the league, I would take that, absolutely. Oh yeah, something different. Break the monotony of City just dominating it all. But with Everton, if they were to finish 14th, is it time to consider Dyche to be one of the best Premier League managers? I mean, you're not putting them up with Fergie or Pep or Guardiola. I don't mean ever, I mean currently in the league. Oh sorry, yeah.
00:18:00
Speaker
I realize I just said Pep and Guardiola there. He's that good, I'm thinking he's two managers. In the Premier League, yeah, no, I think so. I think Desirbe has a lot more pizzazz and smoke around him at the moment, obviously because of where they are and how at Newcastle.
00:18:17
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it'd be hard to go against him. It's just the only thing I don't want guys turning into and look, there's worse things to turn into than what I'm about to say. But kind of a big Sam, I'll keep you up managers because he's better than that. You know, I don't think he will. I think he could eventually, but I can see him quickly becoming a moise at West. Yeah. That kind of going, you know what? You're not going to win the league with us, but you could make a very average squad.
00:18:43
Speaker
slightly better. Just by pure will of baldness. Like from everything that we've seen from previous players talking about him, he seems to just have this real relationship with the players and on a human level
00:19:04
Speaker
is just a good bloke. And like we saw from when he was out of a job doing the podcasts and all that kind of stuff, he was just a dude. I really enjoyed listening to him and I think players in a position like Everton are going to buy into that. I don't think a United one, I don't think a Chelsea one, I don't think a Newcastle one because Newcastle are now getting flair players and I think Deish is one of these lads that
00:19:33
Speaker
Yeah, like he'll sign a Max or Cornet or he'll have these kind of players that are slightly sexier. But give him nuts and bolts and he will make a team greater than the sum of its own parts.
00:19:44
Speaker
Absolutely. And like, you know, he's, I think one of the last of the old school managers out there, I was listening to, I think it was Peter Crouch podcast recently. He was talking about, um, Sean Dyche and basically what Dyche does in his training routine is, you know, they all wear the GPS vest, the bras, whatever you want to call them. And you know, it's all sports science focused now, but one day a week that goes out the window and Dyche gets his own day where he's like, no, we just run and we, you know, we do it my way.
00:20:14
Speaker
And the sports science goes out the window and the load management goes out the window and I kind of love that about them And I think that kind of old-school manager feeds into their kind of current Success because looking at their the breakdown of their home and away wins 57% of their wins this evening this season have been away So it goes back to that. We're under siege lads. We we go here and we can beat anyone Let's just give it a lash and that if they just keep that attitude and bring that home record up a tad I really don't see them having too many problems
00:20:45
Speaker
Oh, 100% agree. The only thing I will kind of pull you up on, which I find amusing more so than disagreeing with you, is that the difference between an old school manager now and a modern manager is how much you publicly buy into the hype around sports science and that kind of stuff. Because everybody's using, like Big Sam is considered to be
00:21:01
Speaker
a dinosaur now despite the fact he was one he was the godfather of it yeah exactly like he was so stat driven at a time and nobody else was but now he's considered a dinosaur because he doesn't live and die by it so yeah i think that's the difference i think that's one of the things that's so underrated about dyche in the premier league and it will carry him and keep him in jobs in the premier league because i think now
00:21:23
Speaker
it's undeniable that like after Bernie there was that question mark over him kind of going is he actually really Premier League quality yeah it's undeniable now as far as I'm concerned like to do what he's done even if everything were to falter and to go down now the rise that they have had under his tenureship at this crucial and difficult period proves he can make a good job anywhere and whilst it's not the style of football that many of us would
00:21:52
Speaker
actively look for, it's a solid works. And I think if we were to lose that in the Premier League, the league would become a little bit more boring.
00:22:01
Speaker
100%
Everton's Competitive Edge
00:22:02
Speaker
I think look he's it's easy unique manager in the way that like you're never gonna see him managing in Spain or France like he's a very British manager and I think he'll forever have a job somewhere between the championship and the Premier League for as long as he wants but I think you're right I think it goes back to your point that he is a guy that can just take average players and make them better somewhat of like a Harry Redknapp situation and
00:22:24
Speaker
or even going back, he may not have had the best teams in the world, but Ian Holloway did it, Big Sam did it. There's so many managers like that. It sounds stupid being like, oh, let's hire a manager that can just make them a slightly better, but there's a lot of teams out there that just need a little bit more of a push to... There's teams out there that are 12th every year is success.
00:22:47
Speaker
Oh, 100%. And he's the perfect guy for that. But what's underrated about making the little bit better, and it's not even about making the individual players a little bit better, it's about making the team better. That is, and Robbie or Nathan would probably correct me if I am wrong, but that was the real special thing about Ferguson. He could put Anderson in midfield.
00:23:13
Speaker
Raphael as a right winger and Karik in centre back and make that a strong team. Whereas when you saw it with Wenger he didn't quite have that same ability to do that when he had like Kukalin in midfield and Bentner up front and an injury prone Diabi in midfield. Like he couldn't quite get them to the next level
00:23:39
Speaker
Ferguson knew his soldiers though, that was the thing. Ferguson could win a Premier League with bloody Gson Parkland left back.
00:23:50
Speaker
that and dice can do the same. Oh, but like Gson Park, it's guys like him though. Yeah, it's guys like him, John O'Shea, Johnny Evans. They're, they're good guys. Like every team needs them. And I think it goes again back to the framework or the kind of philosophy of manager, like Fergie worked because everyone bought in because you weren't allowed not buy in. If you hadn't bought in, you were gone. And I think dice was the same way. Oh, absolutely.
00:24:17
Speaker
uh less so in the kind of pushed on sense but that kind of like prove everybody else wrong um and will they prove every like the doubters wrong i think so and i think we'd all like to see it happen because i think they're one of the last teams to not be relegated from the Premier League so i think it's one that me and you're gonna keep a close eye on um it's sure to be an entertaining one they're kind of
00:24:43
Speaker
kind of a little bit of a close to home team for me now because they were kind of really reminds me of something back in the day. So I'm kind of I'm rooting for you, everything. Come on, Dash. But that that's
Closing Remarks
00:24:55
Speaker
us for this episode. And this has been the Not Upon A Podcast. Don't forget to follow us on social and we'll be back on the next episode. I'm not into podcasts.
00:25:15
Speaker
Back of the net.