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S2 Ep66: VGBD - Graphics
78 Plays6 years ago
Join Dave and Jake as they continue to break down video games. Today they're talking about the part you use your eyes for!
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Thoughts? Comments? Requests for new episodes? Feel free to email them in!
SoapstonePodcast@gmail.com
Like our podcast? Like our podcast! We'll post when new episodes are uploaded!
https://www.facebook.com/SoapstonePodcast/
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Transcript
Nintendo's Latest Newsletter and Graphics
00:00:00
Speaker
Did you see the latest Nintendo newsletter? Whoa! Nice graphics! I'd like to get my hands on that game. You mean you haven't played it yet? We can play it on my Nintendo Entertainment System. It's the Legend of Zelda and it's really rad. Those creatures from Ganon are pretty bad. To Octorok's Tek-Tak's Levers too. But with your help, our hero pulls through. Yeah, go Link. Yeah, get Zelda. Awesome! Intense. The Nintendo Entertainment System. Your parents help you hook it up.
Introduction with Jake and Dave
00:00:28
Speaker
The Legend of Zelda Souls 7.
00:00:31
Speaker
Welcome to the episode of the so some podcast. I am Jake runas always by my co-host Dave. How's it going tonight, Dave? So, uh, brushing my hair. Oh, yeah. I can almost do that now. Yeah. It's mainly, it just, I noticed this long, um, when I was like tugged behind my ears, I'm like, you have fucking not full shave it, but you know, trim it down to a nice and buzz. Yeah. Easy to maintain.
00:01:00
Speaker
So I'm just gonna randomly, I'm gonna have to look for this like 19 minutes into the pre-recording for the actual start. I hope you forget and there's just the 19 minutes of us doing like a random prep and bullshit. It's basically an audio test where we just keep talking. Watching Game Grumps and Nonsense. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know if there's been a more informal start than that. I was just like, what? What are we talking about? I'm sure I'm not gonna tell you in the hopes that it happens.
00:01:29
Speaker
Yeah, I mean... But tonight, I figured that we would talk about graphics.
Are Graphics Necessary or Should Everything Be Text-Based?
00:01:35
Speaker
That's good. Are graphics good? Should we have them at all? Should everything be text-based? Maybe. Probably not. Could there be no emojis, Jacob? Yeah, I kind of... That's technically a graphic. I need emojis. Now, I feel like an emoji game would probably fare about as well as an emoji movie. Which is to say, I don't want that.
00:02:08
Speaker
So anyways, graphics are good. That's basically the takeaway, so. Two minute, three minute podcast. Yeah, we probably should not provide any examples one way or the other. No, we're not going to really reinforce these opinions. Just lay them out there and judge them. Let's just sponge them up, you sheep. It's not even like an actual opinion. It's just like, should games have graphics? Yeah. Yeah.
00:02:24
Speaker
Yeah. They don't always get what we don't want. Yeah.
00:02:32
Speaker
All right, join us next time. You can reach out to us on Facebook. You can, but you decide to message us on the side, or not at all. But for the people who message us on the side, I do appreciate it regardless.
Graphics vs. Storylines in Gaming
00:02:45
Speaker
Yeah, it's always nice. I guess the discussion comes down to...
00:02:49
Speaker
Where are graphics really utilized? Well, because as we've said in the past, you don't need to have necessarily like the best graphical design for a game for it to be good or it gets message home. Yeah. Undertale being my go-to, I have the tattoo, my art example, checks, checks, cheating. Oh, I'm still a fan. This is still on my body.
00:03:15
Speaker
Yeah, and I think that that's 100% true. And I think the industry is also kind of grown there. Hopefully we can provide some examples to back that up. But
00:03:27
Speaker
Both the industry and myself, like, uh, as I get older, I care about graphics less. Um, I can still appreciate good graphics, but bad graphics don't hinder my ability to appreciate a game. I saw you playing Kenshi the other day. Yeah, I know. That game looks like trash. It looks really bad because it was like, I think it was in development for like 10 years or some nonsense by like one guy. Oh. And the graphics didn't change from like,
00:03:54
Speaker
10 years ago so and to be fair they would have been bad 10 years ago too so it doesn't it doesn't look like that particularly good so then what draws you to the game if you were not turned off by the lower quality of graphics for like today's modern era
00:04:12
Speaker
I think a lot of it comes down to, does the game have anything to offer me as a gamer? Right. No, it's like, but what are you going to do for me? No, it's like maybe graphics are part of the game's package that really sells it. And it's like, this is the reason you're playing it. This is something really cool.
00:04:34
Speaker
But it doesn't need that for me if there's something else compelling about it. So in Kenchi's case, I liked the kind of post-apocalyptic survival colony management bent with tech trees and everything like that. A lot of those words that I've said make people who like survival crafty games or colony management games really excited. They're just like, oh yeah, I'll go look up Kenchi. They don't care.
00:04:58
Speaker
The graphics look like garbage. They just care that you can get that kind of colony simulation with like a more hardcore edge to it.
00:05:11
Speaker
Yeah, and things like that really span. If you're just talking about colony management, we can obviously go back to your Dwarf Fortress, or Rimworld, or just some survival crafts. You're like, oh, fucking Minecraft. Yeah, and those first two, I would jump into the comparison between those two, right? Dwarf Fortress is 100% simulation.
00:05:32
Speaker
Stupid amounts of simulation. I remember us talking about the patch notes where it's just like made mermaid bones less valuable so that people would stop causing mermaids to suffocate with some weird architecture. You know, it's like all this nonsense.
00:05:50
Speaker
or like baby waterfalls to desensitize people like next to the dining area to desensitize people that were dining like dwarves that were dining to death so that if they face death later in life it would not like impact them at like a harsh time
00:06:07
Speaker
They're just literally just a waterfall of babies You're just like this is a game Yeah, I live in a society but um like the the graphics were more fortuitous if people aren't familiar with it are basically like ASCII art Essentially, like there's some there's some like mods you can get make it look a little bit better But like a colored ASCII versus black
The Role of Imagination in Horror Games
00:06:31
Speaker
and white. Yeah
00:06:32
Speaker
But it seems like the whole point of that game is The story that's being built out for how your colony progresses. It's not necessarily you don't need to see it happen because you're kind of experiencing it all through Just reading it like a story. Yeah, it's actually it's kind of funny You bring up the story there because that's one of the draws to a game like that is when you start a new saving door fortress you pick your parameters for your world and then a hundred years pass and
00:07:00
Speaker
and 100 years of random events occur, then you can play.
00:07:04
Speaker
Oh, it's like, here's your RNG seed later. Exactly. So it's not like, here's your parameters. Most games where you choose your parameters and colony management are like, here's your difficulty. Here's how long you want your days to be. Whatever go. And they go further than that. And they're like, and here's chaos out the gate. Um, deal with it. Um, I think the tagline for that game is like losing is fun, which is another, um, contrary to.
00:07:34
Speaker
Popular opinion? Yeah, popular opinion, sort of belief. And that, in some ways, I think, would contrast to this idea that you need to have good graphics. Like, if losing can be fun, then maybe bad graphics can be good, you know, whatever. Whereas Room World, the other game we were talking about, that one is the way more accessible colony management game, and it actually has graphics. Yeah, it has sprites. Holy fuck.
00:08:03
Speaker
Yeah, and it actually sacrifices like Now admittedly it's impossible to actually compare with the door fortress for depth actual actual insanity but Whenever you have people, you know, you're controlling your colonists directly You're saying go here do this like you're choosing a layer of interaction to like put yourself in there and having really
00:08:34
Speaker
Really well developed graphics advanced graphics things like that that usually limits the level of how abstract your game really is Just by nature of if it was text you could just imagine anything right? Yeah, it's true And that's like where you can get some bonus points out of it as well as
00:08:56
Speaker
Just kind of like let people Roll with it. Yeah, like the imagination is such like an untapped thing That like I like when games will build suspense because you're just letting their mind roam free You need to actually scare somebody you just need to unsettle them. Yeah, and just let That kind of rock drop down the deep deep deep. Well, yeah
00:09:16
Speaker
That's actually you talked about unsettling The absence of seeing things is like we're talking about graphics but also you can you can really talk about like senses in general the absence of knowledge the absence of sight that is Scary in in games like the thing that makes Horror games normally scary is you don't actually know what's going to happen. Yeah, you should have like a door Yeah, or a corner because I don't know
00:09:46
Speaker
what is behind it or around it. It's like you walk into a room and the lights go out and all you have to navigate is, you know, a memory of what the room looked like or even going as far as like amnesia where the game's just like, hey, don't look at the monster. And you think it's because the monster makes you crazy. You lose sanity and you lose the game. But the real reason is the monster doesn't look that good. They didn't model it that well, so they don't want you to look at it.
00:10:16
Speaker
And I mean, that's an example of
00:10:20
Speaker
Like if you just looked at it, like I did, because I was just like, what's going on here? If you just look at the monster, it takes away all its power, all of its scariness. You're just like, ah, this is carnival horror. You know, whatever. Yeah. It's still scary, but you, you know, as much as it can be, you've seen like the end of it and you're like, okay, that's all I have to do. Yeah. It's not that bad. Like I can't think of.
00:10:48
Speaker
at least off the top of my head, a game where there was something so scary where I was like, I know what it is. I, for that reason, no, no, no, no. Don't want to look at it when we so far removed from it. There's nothing scarier than what your mind will come up with. Yeah. That's, that's the thing. Like if they don't show it, then it could be anything. Um,
00:11:10
Speaker
So a good old as fuck graphics example back in DOS days. Yeah. And then we've talked about this recently descent. Yeah. Which still has some of the coolest basic ass MIDI soundtracks for that game. Yeah. And then a lot of, a lot of bit of rock riffs in there. I did not remember.
00:11:32
Speaker
Yeah, when it's time to amp it up. Yeah. Yeah, but normally like you're in a lit facility as you get later in the game, there's less lies because things are kind of broken down and you can shoot out flares to kind of Project some light in an area but a lot of times it just it happens to be dark in some spots
00:11:50
Speaker
But there are also these purple spawners which just Unless something is occupying that space aka I parked my ship in there like I'm doing right it will spawn enemies a lot of times they'll have the Scratchers the claw guys. Yeah, which just come up and start scratching off your shields from behind you, right? You're like, oh fuck you start to panic but cramps I
00:12:17
Speaker
but like that is like a very simplistic looking game like very early basic polygons but hey free range of movement so kudos to that yeah but just knowing that cloth thing existed spooked me a little bit
00:12:34
Speaker
It almost has this kind of, when you have such rigorous, or you have so many limitations and constraints on what you can do with graphics, how many polygons you can use, you have to really make some choices. Because it's almost a question of, given seven Legos, what's the scariest Lego ship you can make? That's how you make monsters, or the ships in Descent, basically. You don't really have that many polygons.
00:13:02
Speaker
But the same way like when you're driving down the street people see faces in cars like the two eyes and you know the mouth or whatever Yeah, I've driven before where you get the people for the listener who has never been in a car Or seen one It's a it's a similar deal when you're dealing with like low poly low poly counts like that because some of those Those ships they just have like dots for eyes essentially
00:13:28
Speaker
But you see that coming at you like glowing eyes in a dark room with very little else, like to illuminate it. It's terrifying, you know, as a kid. It's not what it is. It's what it represents. Yeah, exactly.
00:13:41
Speaker
There's kind of talking about old games and their graphics and their terrifying nature. So I believe I told you this, but I don't think I've told you, dear listener. That's right, you specifically. When I was a kid, we had these brochures for Christian book distributors, CBD.
00:14:05
Speaker
That was a different meeting than I'm a Jake, by the way. Throw that out there. I don't know what the modern meeting is. No joke. But I assume it's bad. And there was video games that they had there. Very Christian games. I know how Christian will tone everything back, whether it's video games or music. Exactly.
00:14:24
Speaker
So I was particularly interested in a game called Saints of Virtue, which was a doom clone, actually. I didn't realize it was a doom clone because I didn't know what doom was, but it was basically a doom clone. And the enemies in that game were, they were masks, giant masks that would fly with a globe brain like behind them.
00:14:53
Speaker
This game was like the scariest thing I think I played for a long time because they'd have you like into a room and It was not it must have been more of a quake clone because there was 3d geometry, right? Mm-hmm But you'd like turn the corner and there'd be this huge mask with like red eyes or like open its mouth and like fire projectiles at you as it like charges at you and
00:15:15
Speaker
I'm like well I'm gonna pee myself because I am but a child but this is a Christian game so it must be for the best. It was freaking weird and the fact that the graphics were like so bad didn't keep it from terrifying me, from scaring me. In some ways it made the game have more of a feeling of isolation because
00:15:41
Speaker
If they chose to depict flowers, it was like with the exact same sprite in a row, almost like this dystopia, right? Like nothing's really drawing you in. It's like, um, if you see a mannequin in a store, I mean, obviously we've seen all those things where it becomes a little bit creepy because you're like, you're human-like, but you're not in the same way dolls are.
00:16:04
Speaker
Yeah, but with mannequins, it's further removed from realism because you're not trying to depict Specific features like oh we want to look like a person therefore if they fail it kind of takes away from it It just got enough of that shape. You're like That's something. Yeah, and then when you don't know what that something is or what's intentions are you're like?
00:16:24
Speaker
It's kind of like if you've been in a store where they have mannequins and you like don't realize the mannequins there and You're like looking at something ahead of you then you notice the mannequin out of the corner of your eye and you're just like oh It's a person like turning them. It's not at all. It's like that if you can bottle that that's how you make a actually scary video game, I think Always put stuff on the peripherals of huts got it exactly
Adapting Horror to Player Reactions
00:16:50
Speaker
There was actually a, this is a slight tangent, but there was a horror game that was under development that was supposed to be designed to respond to how you acted to jump scares or audio cues and things like that. This was a thing on our thread on Reddit, wasn't it? It might've been.
00:17:07
Speaker
I think I saw you hearing about this a long time ago a trailer for it But if you like jumped with your mouse or something like that You're like jerked back when something jumped in front of you the game would learn that you were susceptible to jump scares. Yeah That's why I like I had theorized this game ever came out. I would Go and pick up all the tarantulas and just go like it was straight in there so that later on they wouldn't use spiders against me because uh It's uncomfortable creepy crawly weakness for sure. Yeah for sure
00:17:37
Speaker
there's actually like outside of our apartment there's there's a web next to the door and there's just like so i have a large watch face like in front of me this is significantly larger than a quarter right yes like this is very very large maybe like two two and a half inches in diameter three inches whatever
00:17:56
Speaker
What would you say we'll talk about sizes later? We'll compare we'll compare but anyways Larger than a quarter right and that is the size of the spider that just sits there right next to the door right next to the door handle at nighttime It hides during the day And it just comes out at night when it can like collect whatever is in there in the web because it's a genius actually and No one is home, please come
00:18:25
Speaker
And uh, very safe. I am also not comfortable with it. I'm not okay with it. I've considered destroying the web, but I'm holding back. So it seems like in general, okay. Even going back to, um, Ocarina of times. Yeah. Ocarina of times. Jesus. Fuck. Yeah. The first one. Uh, what are these spiders? I was going to tell us it's called tell us. Right. Mm.
00:18:55
Speaker
Again, very low polygon example, but like for the time, like, you know, what it represents is a big ass fucking spider. And I fear feel that you don't necessarily need a great degree of realism or high polygon or very smooth graphics to convey something like that. Do you, um, did you play?
00:19:16
Speaker
Majora's Mask at all? No. Okay. I really missed a lot of these Zelda franchises as a whole. In Majora's Mask there was a side quest for Skultolas where you would find a friendly Skultola human hybrid.
00:19:32
Speaker
It's like, it's midway through transformation. It's like half spider on its side of its body and the other half's like human. And you had to lift a curse by gathering skulltola coins, I think, from the rest of them. And then you could turn the person back to a human.
00:19:49
Speaker
There's a back to sculpt all right. Thank God. We're back. We had a mortgage and then you can kill it But that was that's that's scary The other thing about like in that series the scariest thing I think in ocarina was young link beneath the well The name of the monster with the hands can't remember it grabs you and you literally
00:20:18
Speaker
Have to be grabbed by it Before the monster monster will come up from the ground and come to bite you its face is terrifying and Its movement before actually bites you is its head descends from behind its body So like if you're standing here as a human like it detaches the top half of its head It's like if your head jaw went all the way back flat against your spine. Yeah
00:20:46
Speaker
and then came back up to attack that's that's what this thing does oh and this is it this is in a kids game this is ready for everyone and again i peed myself beneath the well should not have been an area in this game at all the lens of truth is not worth it i didn't like what i saw take the truth back from me uh are they dungeon masters or
00:21:12
Speaker
I uh, were you thinking of like there's four masters floor masters, uh, like ceiling masters But there's only like two of these guys in the whole game. I can't remember what they were Listeners right in and tell us Yeah, a box soapstone The p-box, yes Don't put anything into people That is ours. You're not allowed to touch the p-box
00:21:36
Speaker
But yeah, it would descend under the ground and you had to face your fear To get to show back up by actually being grabbed by these hands that would be sticking through the ground Then you have to shake free then you could attack the monster Usually like it for a kid. That's the worst possible situation Yeah, it's like being trapped in something or like being underwater. You're like shit's coming to fuck
00:22:00
Speaker
All right. Another example of, cause this is apparently about games that scared me that had shitty graphics. Yeah, this is the horror episode. Tomb Raider. Anytime you go underwater, you were slow as fuck. You had like eight polygons and half those were towards your very pointy boobs. And then like an alligator or something would like come out at you and you can't use guns underwater, but he knows that. You're like, fuck.
00:22:28
Speaker
Or look like a t-rex was chasing you because that was a thing apparently at one point right, but you were a kid so you said dang oh not my boobs Yeah, no, it's man. This is basically the horror episode now. I think but What game scares you and why?
00:22:52
Speaker
Christian games. That's the main takeaway. Christianity scares me.
00:23:00
Speaker
So can we think of an example outside of fear itself, where good graphics will really lend itself? Because my go-to example, again, I'll try and sneak in every episode, Last of Us. A lot of that is conveyed well because you're dealing with real people. So them sticking to realism and the character's actually having personalities and looking like people and reacting like people.
00:23:29
Speaker
really helps, whereas when you kill them.
00:23:33
Speaker
He was getting a little bit turnt, if you know what I mean. But let's say it had old fucking graphics. Probably harder to convey. Whereas something like Silent Hill, the original one, obviously it was known for having shit graphics for the time. And they resolved a lot of the issues with render distance with the mist. And then used that to your advantage to build atmosphere. Exactly.
00:24:03
Speaker
Yeah, and it's actually like so my go-to is like Silent Hill 2 in that series. Mm-hmm We are like writing the line between horror and graphics like right on point Zombies were there. Yeah Like you can think of how basic the character pyramid head is and that they're just like Oh, what do you want his head to be three polygons max? Yeah
00:24:22
Speaker
You can use exactly three polygons. We won't even give him a chin just three polygons. Oh, jeez But that character was terrifying. Yeah, cuz he looks alien like This helmet that he's wearing this giant metal Pyramid, like there's no way you can be comfortable in that and he's not He's immortal. He's chasing you
00:24:47
Speaker
and Despite like how basic the graphics were like the scariest or the most impactful thing about that game was like the story what's actually going on like this is The protagonist's own personal hell because of the decisions he's
Balancing Graphics and Storylines in Silent Hill
00:25:03
Speaker
made and this is Silent Hill pushing him through it because of that like I don't think there's been a better like Silent Hill entry because that one had the most meaning everything else is just like
00:25:15
Speaker
We're scary. Ah. But that one, even with really, you know, basic graphics, could be much more impactful than something that's trying to be scary or just like, oh, you're in Silent Hill because a protagonist needs to show up in Silent Hill.
00:25:31
Speaker
Um, there's like a scene, uh, and I haven't seen the full movie, but there's the Silent Hill movie. And at one point pyramid head, uh, literally rips the skin off of someone just like flash from their body and then throws it like at the door of a church as it's closing.
00:25:52
Speaker
Um, it's a very uncomfortable scene. And as a whole, it's ridiculous and it's less impactful than Silent Hill two. And this is like actual, you know, real life graphics more or less. Um, and it doesn't mean anything, you know, like it's, it's kind of worthless. It represents no characters development. So not a personal demon. I feel like now we're shifting a little bit into.
00:26:21
Speaker
A lot of games will have like good story or Or where we are nostalgic about them. Yeah, and they just also happen to have Less good graphics than the modern age because of the time that came out. I mean I would angle it like Despite the fact that the graphics were very basic. It could be much more immersive than Literally seeing people on a screen and a movie agreed. Yeah
00:26:44
Speaker
And I'm still trying to go through Davis X very slowly. I forgot I was playing through it because I started playing Path of Exile again or something. But that game looks like shit. I will fight anybody. It looks like garbage. I know there are mods for it now. But for when it came out and when I got on Steam, they haven't updated it. It looks like garbage.
00:27:04
Speaker
but i'm actually enjoying it and getting into it because i liked some of the other deus ex entries and i like the world building around it and even mechanics are janky and looks bad i'm invested for some reason yeah it's because it has an interest factor outside of i'm not there for the graphics
00:27:22
Speaker
Right and like you shouldn't be It's not for how it looks yeah, it's in spite of there's like, um And like one of the newer day sex there there's um, I guess the the oldest new one Uh, which is just day sex human revolution, I think
00:27:42
Speaker
Human Revolution of mankind. There's like a bar called the hive and it's got like yellow and yellow and yellow and yellow and They really push the theming kind of like
00:27:58
Speaker
The feeling of the city by how vibrant the colors are like vibrant the graphics are and it's something like the old deus ex couldn't really possibly accomplish because Even for the lively parts of the city that game always feels Empty like it always feels like it's you and government conspiracy and a couple a couple allies Maybe in the three bombs were in a T pose around the corner until you around the corner. They're like
00:28:24
Speaker
I'm hungry. I exist now. Yeah It's uh, but I I would argue part of that seems to be the stark conscience between like here are the graphics for The background. Mm-hmm my background this cuz I'm like if I'm talking about New York that level yeah of the background of the buildings themselves versus the actual background which is like a static image that like rotates lightly with the Twin Towers and
00:28:50
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. Back in the day before terrorism.
00:28:57
Speaker
Actually, I think there's actually, we'll have to fact check this possibly, but I think there's only one. I think they actually meant to imply like there had been an attack or something. Cause it's actually, I remember this because the game came out before September 11th. Oh, really? Oh, did it? Yeah, well before. And they had already kind of depicted like, Hey, there's been an attack.
00:29:23
Speaker
And people are like, does this mean something? Like, why does, why does this game by Ion Storm or Eidos or whoever. Eidos Interactive. Yeah. Eidos. Sun. Back in the days where PC games were.
00:29:39
Speaker
PC games. And the menus were garbage. Yeah, it was a lot of shitty menu low poly shooters. Yeah. And zoom in with sniper rifle was closed bracket.
00:29:54
Speaker
I need to reload. Hits comma. I didn't know how until our friend Ian told me. I was like, well, I'll fucking be. Because I was just like, do I want to sacrifice the clip to reload? Eh, might as well. I like when games, you open up the settings and you're like, you know what?
00:30:16
Speaker
I think today I will enable mouse look. That's a sign. I was doing numpad like a fucking G, but maybe free ranger movement's good.
00:30:28
Speaker
I remember like hearing about that when people first, uh, I think it started with quake was when you first optionally could really use a mouse. And instead of the keyboard to like look around and people are like, that's stupid. Like, why? Oh, it's WASD. People are like, that's dumb. No one's ever going to use WASD. Those are stupid keys. Eventually, you know, eventually it's the norm. Yeah. You use all the time. Even norm uses them.
00:30:54
Speaker
I'd fucking hate that guy. He is the worst, traditionally. Yeah, it's been forever since I played Deus Ex, but, um, the immersion, I think in that game is what carried me past the graphics. The graphics are so bad that yes, they do sometimes take me out of it, but, um, how well done the story is and how immersive the story is, is like, it pulls you in if they make the world believable, regardless of what it looks like.
00:31:21
Speaker
100% true. I would say a lot of times Graphics or like specific art styles are used to kind of smooth over some of those edges. Yeah and help Make the world more feel more alive. Mm-hmm. It's like Oregon the lion forest obviously gorgeous fucking game Because it's a really good smooth art style. Mm-hmm
00:31:42
Speaker
and uses several layers of parallax backgrounds. So you feel like you're in something. It's not just a simple 2D platformer. Yeah. So like if that game was just, let's say Sprite graphics, could it still be awesome?
00:31:58
Speaker
Fuck yeah, but they had like this nice blend of things where it felt Animated the whole time. Yeah Versus like oh, this is a model. This is a collection of sprites here or like here's some layered frames, you know
00:32:13
Speaker
I'm really freaking smooth. That's the other really smooth is like start frames and frames and all of your animations are well detailed and like match the entire duration. Nothing feels like it's sped up or slowed down specifically to match a move. And it makes the world feel like a lot more organic for a game like Ori.
00:32:34
Speaker
Which I have not beaten yet, but... Dude, you should. It's very pretty. And eventually the second one will come out. Yeah. And that'll be awesome. And I'll probably suck at that one too. But it's fun to try. That is a game that, like, it gets hard at parts. Yeah. Like, a lot. Like, what kind of game am I playing? This is not a casual platform, right? As soon as you get to those sections in games where it's like, hey, um, this part of the screen's gonna move. Yeah. Don't let it touch you. I'm like, uh, panic.
00:33:01
Speaker
Yeah, and so you have to like dash through I forget what it is Though you can dash through projectiles or certain other objects. Yeah, but you have to drag your mouse away from it to dash through And so I'm like click drag and all these lines to like dash through so I can move away through the obstacles To escape the rising water or whatever the fuck is trying to kill me
00:33:24
Speaker
Yeah. And you'd have to like complete a gauntlet segment where it's just like make all of these moves, all of these successfully, then you know how to save point and you'll be good. But if you screw up, you know, retry. Yeah. Um, but I mean, like in mega man, you just fucking, you jumped up and that's what the closing walls were. And you weren't done.
00:33:41
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Um, actually the gauntlet sections and that kind of forward momentum reminds me a lot of Celeste, which is a game we've covered previously on the podcast. If those, yeah, if listeners aren't aware of that one. Um, but that's another game with a kind of, uh, distinctive, uh, art style animation blend, um, that really lends itself, I think to the, the gameplay experience.
00:34:06
Speaker
Yeah. Cause everything is spray-based, but they animate things in such a way where if you're jumping off of a platform or encountering something you shouldn't, which is insta-deaf. Yeah. Um, everything is done super smoothly and that's needed for people who are doing speed runs and other things.
00:34:26
Speaker
Yeah. That's also a game that I did not know was meant to be so optimized for speedruns. Yeah. Cause I always assumed that like a game is designed people are like, Oh, we found some holes in the system that we can abuse. Oh, we can beat the game in this amount of time. Yeah. But they actually have considerations like for certain types of dashes where you get to like the late, late game content, we're doing optional stuff.
00:34:48
Speaker
It's like, hey, uh, jump and face the other way, but then angle dash back this way and you get like an extra 500 feet. Yeah. You're like, why are you telling me this shit now?
00:34:58
Speaker
Yeah, that game also has, um, they have a timer, I think built into it for speed running. You can turn on a timer. So you see that, which is really nice. Cause I remember for, um, uh, super meat boy, people had to time to check segments. Cause it was a whole, there's a whole science to testing legitimate speed runs against cheat, cheat speed runs, basically splicing in a section, um, for your best of.
00:35:23
Speaker
And then just making a compilation of splices and being like, here's my one shot run through, it's world record now. And the way they avoided that was because there was a synchronized animation between each segment. I think it had to do with like the victory animation or Bandage Girl.
00:35:42
Speaker
So after one section, you load them to the next level and the animation would be synchronized with the previous. So they would check the frames. And if the frames were incorrect, they knew that you spliced the segment. It was freaking legit and has nothing to do with this episode. But Celeste was just like, hey, let's put a counter in there. So sweet running community appreciates them for that.
00:36:07
Speaker
You don't have to count frames. What? Oh, shit. Oh, no way. Yeah. What? But I mean, Super Meat Boys also, because like it came from Newgrounds, right? Yeah. Was a very basic ass game.
Game Mechanics Over Graphics in Gaming
00:36:22
Speaker
Team Meat. Meet the team. Valve's other video. But like, that's just all about the game loop. It doesn't need to be anything. And I think certain things that
00:36:37
Speaker
So like I love the idea of Giana Sisters, all of the music for it. But in the most recent edition, it's got this like done in unity feel for a platformer. What game is this? The Great Giana Sisters. Okay, I'm not familiar with it.
00:36:55
Speaker
So it's a side scrolling platformer, but it has more of a 3d view to it. Okay. Side scrolling. Yeah. But things are depicted more realistically, right? But the whole gimmick is you can switch between the two sisters and it changes the world behind and the music, but also changes where some crystals are. And each one has like a different jump interaction. So maybe you need to kind of glide with one. So you have to switch over. Yeah. And some sections might require you to switch between.
00:37:25
Speaker
Gotcha. Okay. Great idea. But for how the newest one looks, it's a little bit, it has a feel of jank to it. Yeah. That's because like, I feel they were striving for a degree of maybe cartoony realism, but it, it doesn't match my expectation.
00:37:44
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, that can be that can be the death of a game if like the graphics interfere with the gameplay in some way or you feel like they held them back from putting time into something that would have improved the gameplay experience.
00:37:59
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like it's really obvious to Notice when a game tries and fails. Yeah versus if they didn't try they didn't really fail or maybe they just opt for if you don't if you don't try you immediately level one I give up but I mean something like
00:38:21
Speaker
Enter the Gungeon. Yeah. Great fucking game. Everything's pixelized, has good animations, and they play along with the sprite and cute feel. Yeah. And it makes for an awesome experience. But I'm not sure exactly what else you would do for like a top-down view, but if you tried to make that 3D, I don't think it would. It turns into, um, whisk of rain.
00:38:46
Speaker
It would like that would be a very, that would be a close corollary kind of like a bullet hell game with a lot going on. I still like risk of rain. Right. I'm not saying it's bad. It's just, it limits you when you make that jump to 3d in some ways.
00:39:02
Speaker
Some games I really appreciate because it's 2D, I don't have to spend as much time fiddling with controls, fiddling with depth of field, anything like that. You can just focus on the core mechanics of that game and play it out. I'm trying to think of something that exists in both tower defense games. I think Sanctum is one. It's a 3D tower defense game.
00:39:26
Speaker
It takes a lot more effort to jump around dungeon defenders 3d tire defense game takes much more effort to traverse the terrain agreed And they in that case they incorporate it into the actual gameplay and the mechanism in your hero character But it's takes just more effort to play than just a top-down Drop things in front of the enemies, you know, I would say that defenders don't have great graphics either
00:39:53
Speaker
Yeah, but they do have a style though, so it doesn't really do It's done in a cartoony way We were like, oh it's charming Yeah, like you can look at that 10 years later. Like yeah, I see what they were going for and what they wanted me what they got
00:40:07
Speaker
We actually had a discussion I think last night or the night before where we were talking about Dungeon Defenders like whether we should play it or not and we're just like like remember all those times playing Ian and he's just like never played that game. We're like we remember playing this game with you like three people we're just like we definitely played with you. I looked it up and he owns the game and he's never launched it.
00:40:31
Speaker
Really? Yeah, I distinctly remember playing that's a fucking Mandela effect right there. Yeah, cuz I So to my recollection, uh-huh. It was definitely myself. Yeah you and then Jenny obviously yeah, and then we'd rotate in between a couple of puke was max four I believe four for most levels. They were okay. I had like higher cap because I remember playing with like Ian Ashley Dan mm-hmm
00:41:00
Speaker
AJ I think played some too kind of like rotate between that group and we'd have like four people who were on at a time. Yeah But yeah, I have this but you know, it's part of the rotation This is now the tieback to Bioshock infinite where the mind will make Make up gaps where it does not exist. Yeah, that's that's basically it And I think that as an industry, uh
00:41:23
Speaker
We were talking about games like Dungeon Defenders, Celeste, the 8-bit or pixel art style. As the video game industry, I think it's gotten to the point where graphics don't really matter. It's what you do with them that matters more. We accelerated up this escalation. It was almost like the race to the moon, the race to good graphics.
00:41:46
Speaker
we had going on through the PlayStation era, PlayStation 2, PlayStation 3, graphics were always getting better and better. I use PlayStation because they name all their consoles the same, so it's easy.
00:41:58
Speaker
Well, they were also really trying to push for like, we have the best graphics. It was a driving selling point for a lot of consoles. Yeah. I mean, outside of like Nintendo, they kind of held back like, we got our own thing going. Don't worry about us. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So PlayStation, Xbox are always kind of trying to out big penis each other for like, no, we have the best graphics and they try and up the graphics card and everything else as much as they could.
00:42:23
Speaker
Yeah. To a degree, a lot of things came out really well. I like the look of a lot of PlayStation 4 titles. I remember in game reviews back on, game review sites a decade ago,
00:42:40
Speaker
they would have um comparisons where it'd just be like here's a screenshot from each of the consoles this is what the game would look if you got it on playstation on xbox on pc and pc is just like a picture of a person you're like wow yeah i know it's just the reviewer waving yeah it's me and the game
00:42:59
Speaker
And yeah, they were always trying to jostle in the console wars to have the best graphics. And I think we finally reached a point where the hardware is good enough that it doesn't really matter. You can make a game that looks bad, have bad performance, and it's definitely possible. The games I've played recently have still done that.
00:43:20
Speaker
But usually in those cases not like that's the games only sin. Yeah There's um, I was talking about like the push toward crisis that became like a touch point I think I think it was actually in my mind the shifting point for graphics because we got to Crisis then it became like a meme. It's like yeah, you have you spent five thousand dollars on your PC, but can it run crisis maxed out? Yeah, no
00:43:48
Speaker
Because like the developers computers couldn't run crisis maxed out on that thing came out. I tried to run it at like the lowest settings on Probably a laptop at the time and I remember it getting exceedingly hot. Mm-hmm And also it's kind of like a little shitty slideshow. Yeah, it's like alright next frame, please Alright next frame. I I moved to shoot the enemy and it's like resolving
00:44:17
Speaker
But yeah, that like tore people's computers apart, computers apart. And then we got to the point where we could run crisis. It was not a problem anymore. The game looks good, but it's not like super revolutionary anymore. And we realized it doesn't matter if we get past that, like.
00:44:36
Speaker
If we have another multiplayer or if we have like a multiplayer shooter and it looks better than crisis, who cares? Really? Right? Like what's the game actually like? It doesn't stand out on its own. Like I'm sure they've improved the graphics of Call of Duty as it's progressed in its titles. Like a little bit. Yeah. I think they use the same engine still for everything, but they would be too risk, it would be too risky to change that. Cause it's how they get the call of duty feel TM. Yes. Yeah.
00:45:02
Speaker
But yeah, I mean, it doesn't matter. Nobody's going to care if the next holiday looks slightly better. They'll just put it in Egypt in the 20th century or whatever. I don't know. I don't know when Egypt was around. Is Egypt still around? I think Egypt's still around. Pretty sure it's still a place. I've heard about it once or twice.
00:45:20
Speaker
But yeah, after that kind of push, we dialed it back. And you mentioned Minecraft really early. I think that's the point to circle back to when it 100% became okay to have a game that wasn't focused on graphics.
00:45:37
Speaker
Yeah. The thing is like the graphics are very basic. It's fucking blocks, but it's what they do with the blocks and like the different textures that are on them. Yeah. And then the fact that if you're like, Hey, this really is too basic for me, give me the good shit. You can get different like mod packs for like shaders and stuff.
00:45:58
Speaker
Yeah. Have you seen those fucking lighting and water effects? I'm like, this isn't fucking mine. Like they do so much with it. And it's really impressive. Right. But at the same time, the core game does not need anything super crazy. Yeah. It just needs to be.
00:46:16
Speaker
Listen, folks, mental health awareness, it doesn't matter how you look, all right? It's what you do with your body. It's the content of your character. And what you do with your body. I was going to say raise it better the second time, but maybe not.
00:46:34
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. People couldn't argue with the gameplay with Minecraft. It felt amazing to play Minecraft with all your friends. There was so much to do. Infinite world to explore. You could build whatever you wanted. How could graphics compete with that kind of pedigree?
00:46:50
Speaker
Like it can't I can't like I can't name a game. It's like this game is the most beautiful game in the world. But like the gameplay sucks. Yeah. I actually don't know. I probably should have thought about that. Because I honestly haven't played many games that had amazing graphics recently, especially the gameplay also sucked. So I think people just
00:47:18
Speaker
There have been good looking games, especially like in the console space. Like you played God of War recently, we both played Monster Hunter. Those are games that are like, they look good. They're both very smooth and cinematic. I think that lends well to the gameplay. It doesn't need to be like, oh my God, I can see Kratos' nipple hairs, you know? You can, but it doesn't have to be.
00:47:38
Speaker
It's it's a bonus for me, right? It's weird that the camera like is Zoomed up on his nipple for every cutscene like dial it back a bit. We understand you put in the effort but like the look and feel of Near automata.
Nier Automata's Graphical Focus on Characters
00:47:54
Speaker
Oh, yeah, holy fuck. Yeah, that's that'll eventually be a 10 part episode but it looks gorgeous, but it also handles a
00:48:03
Speaker
So fucking smooth. Platinum knew what they were doing when they were designing the combat and the interactions.
00:48:10
Speaker
What's interesting about that, you mentioned near as an example of graphics, really only the characters look really good. Like the rest of the world is good, but it's not like amazing. It's not like standout textures for like, oh, this building that I'm on. Yeah. It's a building. It doesn't need to be. And I'm so crazy. I remember the ruins in the desert and I was just like, this is just like walls and gray. It's like sand, sand, sand, uh, fucking box stuck out of the ground. Yeah. In comparison, like they're not.
00:48:39
Speaker
I keep swinging it out of the mic. Dodging punches. I've been swinging punches at Dave all night and he hasn't gotten hit yet. No sweat. And then like 2B attacks once and you're just like, oh, the graphics and the animations and it's all so good. Yeah. And it's the characters.
00:49:01
Speaker
It has the background like just enough where it's like This is good and passable, but it's not what you're gonna focus on. Yeah, you don't want to have the uh The giant mole on your face that people like But I keep seeing that thing and it takes away from it. Yeah, I want to have things Did that move
00:49:22
Speaker
you want to either have like good graphics across the board or just spend it efficiently on things that you want the players to focus on exactly yeah and like the characters and the style of those main characters that was the focus of near like what they were going through what they were figuring out that was the focus
00:49:42
Speaker
The rest of it didn't really matter, so they just kind of de-emphasized the graphics. And I think that's perfectly fine. I think that that's a completely valid approach to designing your game. Like you said, resource management. Where are you spending your time?
00:49:59
Speaker
Um, and yeah, I mean, in current
Current State of Graphics in Gaming
00:50:04
Speaker
year, which is currently 2019, like I don't, I don't look at a game and I'm like, man, the graphics are absolutely amazing. That's the reason I'm going to play it. Exactly. Um, it's all about how they actually, how they got that game gold. What are, what are, what are they taking to the table, to the industry of video games that makes it worth their game? Uh, actually you see in play.
00:50:26
Speaker
So I will say earlier on there were definitely some times that games would catch my eyes. I'm like, holy fuck. That looks gorgeous. Yeah. But it's not usually the high quality of the graphics as much as the art style. Yeah. So more recently, uh, tunic, I think was shown at E3.
00:50:47
Speaker
Oh, yeah, and it's like a very well lit But low poly game like that looks fucking adorable. Yeah, I'm immediately sold in the same way. I'm gonna get Zelda linked to the past. Hmm. What's the one coming out on switch the new Zelda? That would be the news over which is a remake of oh, very This isn't the musical game. No, it's the other one. I'm not actually sure For Zelda's a link to a sword of seasons
00:51:18
Speaker
of ice and fire yeah and knuckles something like that yeah or when a portal originally came out i was like this game looks fucking awesome yeah but a lot of it was the style of comedy they were conveying in the trailer and then also the mechanic itself i'm like holy shit wouldn't be cool if and then they're like hey it's a game yeah
00:51:43
Speaker
Like so little a portal actually is the graphics, but it does have a minimalist design testing space for all of the rooms. They don't actually do that much graphically. But what's there is clean and it's crisp and accomplishes the goals of the game just fine.
00:52:02
Speaker
Yeah, but like the standout sore thumb examples might be like some 1812 battle simulator Yeah, we're going around as polygons trying to bayonet people right but that for me like the game loops not terribly interesting And it looks bad. Yeah, there's nothing to pull you it's kicking you while you're down versus a Detraction in that case
00:52:26
Speaker
I actually have like a personal example. Jake, I think you look fine. Look at me. I mean, look at me. Last night we were playing City of Heroes and that game came out in 2004.
00:52:43
Speaker
originally and it looks like really dated they had some cool designs it's cool that you can customize your heroes however you want but you can see that you're getting one polygon per fist and no more than that that is your that is your allotment and then like if you want to cover yourself in ice armor they're literally just like ice cubes at eight positions on your body in large there you go ice armor like that's literally what the effect looks like
00:53:12
Speaker
And then prior to this podcast we were playing Guild Wars 2, which is gorgeous for When it came out. Hey, hey spoilers. I haven't fully loaded in the texture facts But I play like I was playing as a mesmer
00:53:29
Speaker
And my sword kit has me doing all of these swings and there's like a Illusionist kind of purpley pink after image to all of the attacks whenever my illusions chatter whenever they break They kind of like evaporate into glass and butterflies and it looks so cool like the effects actually I'm just like this is just more immersive because it feels cool to hit things and the effects feel cool and
00:53:56
Speaker
You're getting a tangible reward from things. Yeah, everything's well animated. There's combos and things. With combat, just a comparison between these two games, and they're very different games, it feels better here. And, yeah, graphically, it's just really impressive. I was talking to our friend, Landon.
00:54:21
Speaker
I don't know if I can call him a friend. We're talking to our close acquaintance, Landon. Friend of the show. I actually do love you, buddy. Friend of the show, Landon. And looking at a cool looking sword and all it does is like invert what would be seen behind it. So like if the sword would be in front of clouds and you're like looking up, then it like inverts the palette and it looks like sunset or something like that.
00:54:49
Speaker
And it's just a perfectly reflective flat on an etched surface And it looks freaking awesome And he remarked, you know, it was just like this looks awesome and you can still you can still get that rise out of people like you can still get that and that Holy crap that looks awesome reaction the breathtaking. Yeah, exactly
00:55:11
Speaker
Like you don't need Keanu Reeves for that. There's other ways to get there but it's entirely It's an it's entirely on the developers to build a game That's good enough to support that you can't just have like that swords really cool. So I'm gonna play 400 hours of this MMO Game has to be good, too
00:55:32
Speaker
Hopefully cyberpunk's good because It's you know again has that visual aesthetic yeah, it has very high quality graphics as far as realism because They want to convey like somebody's talking to you You want to be able to see like? Obviously you hear like the emotion their voice is right. Yeah, I think they also have a body language. Yeah, which you can convey with that
00:55:58
Speaker
Attention to detail of graphics. Mm-hmm Then maybe you can convey it in other ways with like different tones. Yeah, depending on the graphical medium. I think it looks good It's like old people. It's all it's all depends, you know, it's all the best it all depends it depends all the way down the Talk about cyberpunk for a second. I think it accomplishes both attacks on two fronts. It's
00:56:22
Speaker
Graphics are gonna look really cool. So it's gonna be, you know, you'll see things, you'll be impressed by it. Things will look good, they'll be animated well, there's all of that graphically. But then it also comes in with an art style and it says, this is a cyberpunk world. You're playing as a protagonist who has the word samurai like on his popped collar and then like energy laser beams down his jacket. And he's just gonna be the ultimate like badass by the end of it. It's just guaranteed.
00:56:51
Speaker
A comparable game that has like really good graphics at the time and really good story made by a different publisher, Witcher 3. Yeah. That game, very pretty.
00:57:01
Speaker
I think it accomplishes both. Yeah. Maybe if they merged those two game studios. See what they can accomplish. I want them to buy World of Darkness and start making vampire games. That's what I want. I realize another company is about to come out with a vampire game, but it doesn't look that good. CD Projekt Red. Maybe it'll be good. Sorry, friend of the show, other company whose name I don't remember making the new vampire, The Masquerade. I hope it's good. I'll buy it if it's good.
00:57:33
Speaker
You'll bite if it's good or you'll bite if it's good. Both. Yeah. Hey, I do like that. That was good This is usually where I would attempt to high five if that hadn't failed literally every time After doing a bit of meme research I feel there were two white to do high five. Yeah. No, that's fair There was a picture on some Facebook meme page. I'm a part of and it's like I
00:57:53
Speaker
Which is white and it has picture of like a white tile picture of a red tile picture of blue tile And then a text of like two white guys trying a high-fiver second time. I'm like, oh shit That's us how did they know But yeah, that's that's where I think graphics are in the industry right now
00:58:15
Speaker
I mean, obviously we've talked about it, but like I'm inclined to agree. That's good. In the same way that no one specific thing matters for game development. It's just whether or not it's cohesive. Exactly. Does it match your vision?
00:58:34
Speaker
Cause like, let's say you have shitty music for a game. That's fine. It might not detract. It might just be like a minimalist background approach, right? Right. But if it's jarring and it takes you out of the thing, you fucked up. Right. And the same way with graphics, it doesn't.
00:58:51
Speaker
Like Fable, another shitty looking game in my opinion. But I would still go back and play that because it has a lot of other interesting mechanics or amusing characters. The mechanics don't hold up as well. The combat is actually pretty rough. I tried to play it. It was like kicking chickens, getting headshots with the bow. That was about it. Headshots with the bow is pretty good. Headshots on chickens that you've kicked. Combo bullet storm.
00:59:20
Speaker
Yeah, no, it's you just have to play to your strengths and understand what you're going for seriously That'll that'll get you there and you can support whatever art style you want along the way borderlands like cel shaded wind waker Style games like all of those if you pick an art style and it's not realistic Then your game just does not seem to age as much when a graphics department mechanics can though
00:59:46
Speaker
Yeah, if something's janky once it'll be janky forever. Yeah, but I can look at things like Beautiful Joe and be like I've never played you but man, that's a really cool idea. Yeah
00:59:59
Speaker
It's actually kind of funny cause like talk about beautiful Joe, beautiful Joe. It's the, the ripoff, I guess it's just called beautiful Joe. Um, but, uh, talking about that, uh, you, did you ever play comic zone for Sega Genesis? Yes. That game, because it has this kind of specific art style, like the graphics don't look bad. Um, cause they just know cause it's like, I'm in a, I don't want to say a four panel comic, but yeah.
01:00:28
Speaker
I'm literally in a comic. That's usually how long I lasted in that game, four-panel. So it basically was a four-panel comic. Surprisingly fucking hard.
01:00:36
Speaker
It's like, hey, how are you going to get through here? It's like, you're going to sacrifice a third of your health. I'm like, I don't have that many. Holds health in hands. Yeah. Take all this, I guess. Also, don't put a super jump ledge at the end of your level to end the level. I get that you just want to eat my quarters, but I'm playing at home on Steam now. Don't put the jump at the end of your level.
01:00:59
Speaker
You think that's bad. Try jumping on the ice level until like the guy who's on a platforms. If you get hit, you get knocked back and there's, there's holes, holes in the ground. Jacob. No, that was the balance in that game was questionable, but the graphics, uh, they aged really well.
01:01:18
Speaker
Yeah, the whole thing had a style and it had good, again, MIDI type of music. And then also had like stacking or very loud sound bites for when I would hit people and go, kind of like Street Fighter in that way. Yeah. Do you remember the protagonist's name? I know his last name was Turner.
01:01:43
Speaker
I can't remember exactly but they should have made a sequel should have been a female character and her name should have been Paige
01:01:52
Speaker
She was the next generation. I feel like I'm talking to my dad. That would have been amazing. When I told him I had a friend, Justin, from high school and then in college, he's like, is his last name Tyne? And I just looked at him like, we'll never be this close later on in life. He's just waiting with the high five. Dad, dad, you're dead.
01:02:12
Speaker
Man Turner does sound right though. Yeah, cuz remember there's the I remember good job Turner Yeah, like that punk chick would call you on the phone through the comic. Yeah Good job Turner. Mm-hmm. I also like that you you could like rip holes in the comic to like find super super Powers and things like super items. Yes. Yeah
01:02:34
Speaker
You can also just rip the comic and take part of your health to form a paper plane to throw at people. Yeah. I also like how they really tried to bring home the whole like, Hey, no, I have a ponytail glasses. I do art in my jean jacket and, you know, gloves and I have a pet rat, whatever. It's the nineties. Yeah. I'm just like really trying to sell that one, huh? We were all there. It's okay. He's buff. Oh my God. He's awesome. This is a starving artist or whatever. Yeah.
01:03:06
Speaker
I just want some cheese for me and my wrath. That was the objective of that game, I think. Also to free yourself from the comic. But, that being said...
01:03:17
Speaker
If you guys have feedback that you'd like to send in for Soapstone podcast, you can do so at soapstonepodcast.gmail.com or join the discussion on Facebook, facebook.com slash soapstone podcast, where we are always happy to interact with fans and listeners, which is more accurate than happy. Happy is a strong word. We will reluctantly interact with people who accidentally post, uh, in response to things that we post.
01:03:47
Speaker
And if you send direct messages or just mention it offhand in person, we will begrudgingly take your constructive feedback or ideas for an episode and probably work that into something. Yeah. And it will fuel less for the entire duration until we get more feedback. It's basically how we keep going. So just be like, just say a quote from the podcast occasionally. I'll be like, nice.
01:04:11
Speaker
yeah right now we're down to uh we're just going wikipedia we hit random enough times we're like is that a game is that in a game yeah yeah yeah yeah we write that down this one's called hitler hitler in video games depictions of hitler in video games who did it best was it uh wolfenstein or good night everybody have a good night