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In The Court of the Mad King with Jason Sandagon
135 Plays3 years ago
We talk shaking up things up, breaking into the clothing industry, following the evolution of a idea, and forging your own path with the fascinating Jason Sandagon.
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Transcript
Introduction to Jason Sandigon
00:00:00
Speaker
Hi, I'm Connor Fowler. And I'm Matt Smith.
00:00:03
Speaker
We are joined by none other than the fearsome Filipino, the Don of the Double Breast, the Mad King of Queens, the scion of suiting, the boisterous blonde bombshell, the K-pop fan with the tattooed hand, the suave stand up, the dashing director of art, the maestro of made to measure, gorgeous George himself, here's Jason Sandigon, and welcome to Apocalypse Duds. Thank you for joining us. How are you on your half day from work?
00:00:33
Speaker
Wow. I mean, I'm better now. That was crazy. Did you write all those down? That's literally the reaction we get from everyone. That was so many. Yeah. Connor and I were really trying to workshop this for the past few days. That's good. It just came together.
00:00:52
Speaker
yeah it really did dude because we started out with like three it was uh it was the kingpin of kpop which i think is a nice dot dot dot dot but uh it's funny i mean i'm amused i like words a lot and that's good those were really good all of them were really good real solid well feel free to use them
00:01:12
Speaker
Yeah. They're yours now. You have to send them to me because I already forgot half of them. Oh, we sure do. Yes. I will share this. I will share this argument with you when we get into it, when we get done with it. Yeah. So how's it going today, Jason?
00:01:30
Speaker
I was good, you know, I was off like half the day today, which is good. So I spent like the day taking some photos for like the store I work for as website. No, so that's how's the weather. Oh, I meant to say your photos are good. That's what I wanted to say to you. The photos that I see, I thought were very good. So that's what I wanted to say. I wanted to say that before the show started, but now I'm saying it during the show. I love it. I love a Canon compliment. Yeah. Now you can't go back on it.
00:02:02
Speaker
The weather here is actually today was nice. It was like 50. Oh, it was a little it was like slightly overcast. Gotcha. But it was like nice just like sweatshirt and like some corduroy weather. Yeah, I'm a little jealous because we've we've launched back into like early fall weather. So it was like 72 and kind of humid today down here. Yeah, that's not the most fun. Not the most fun.
Life in Sunnyside, Queens
00:02:32
Speaker
So Jason, where are you from and where are you located now? I am from a very small, legally a city in Massachusetts called Gardner. Okay. And now I live in Queens, New York City. Is Gardner in the Boston Metro? No, so it's like 30 minutes outside. It's part of,
00:03:00
Speaker
It's like there's a city like the center of Massachusetts called Wister. Yeah. And it's more of like a suburb of that. Gotcha. But it's even even that is pushing it in terms of like what a suburb is, because it's like it takes 20 minutes to get to get to Wister. But like I know people who like live in my hometown that work in Wister, but not many people will work in like Boston. Gotcha. OK. But yeah, it's like one of those like it's it's pretty rural.
00:03:30
Speaker
Right, right. And you're located in Queens now. Yeah, now I live in Queens, the World's Borough, the greatest. What neighborhood in Queens, or part of Queens, I guess, is a big reason. I live in Sunnyside. So it's like when you're in the East River, there's like Long Island City and then there's me. So it takes me like, you know, on the train, like 10 minutes to get to like Midtown, which is worthless. But yeah.
00:03:55
Speaker
No, I love my neighborhood. It's great. I live in a very mixed neighborhood. There's a lot of big Japanese and Asian population as well as a big Spanish population.
00:04:08
Speaker
Also like white mix in there. Right. Right. What's really nice is that it doesn't, while I'm very close to Manhattan, it doesn't feel like I live in New York city. Right. It's very quiet out here. People are very nice. I know all the people that live in my building, you know, and my building's only seven stories and it's one of the taller ones in like the, the neighborhood. So like it's always bright and sunny here.
00:04:38
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I lived in Bushwick when I lived in the city and like, like this kind of across the border from Richwood. Yeah. So, you know, like Queen's has always seemed like sort of like melting pot is a very cliche term, but like. It's so true though. Yeah. There's like a ton of different types of people and ethnicities and whatever that all just live on top of each other.
00:05:05
Speaker
Yeah, it's I mean, it's so true. I mean, there's a place across from my apartment. It's a Chinese restaurant, like a takeout place, but it's Halal. Oh, so I'm like, you know, in my head, I'm like, that's insane. But, you know, obviously, clearly, there's like a market, you know, clearly, there's people here that appreciate that, you know,
Cultural Influences and Diet
00:05:24
Speaker
totally, totally. As as someone who who likes pork,
00:05:29
Speaker
not something that I could do. Big, big pork boy right here. So, I haven't, I haven't. Yeah, I, I am not on the pork train any longer. However, I will say I have enjoyed many pork in my life, or much more.
00:05:51
Speaker
I mean it's just it's a solid it's just uh I mean obviously being like Asian American it's a staple food you know even at like you know my even at home like in my parents house we eat a lot of pork so yeah like a just a meat thing my dad makes a lot of pork people get weirded out by ground pork those people are wrong it's yeah that's a nice that's a nice delivery method
00:06:16
Speaker
Someone once told me that, oh, pork is really bad for you because it's dirty. And I'm like, what does that mean? Literally eating old animals is bad for you. Yeah. They're like, well, pigs are like a dirty animal. They'll just eat anything. And I'm like, yeah, and so will I. Exactly. I mean, if we're being honest about the American agricultural system,
00:06:41
Speaker
literally any meat it's going to be absolutely disgusting if you yeah yeah so bone and feces and this is this is said as a vegan that also knows that people are going to eat meat yeah not not the greatest not the greatest uh yeah if you enjoy it fuck it whatever damn right well jason we are piloting a new
Journey into Fashion
00:07:06
Speaker
segment here on the show. All right. The ensemble investigation. If you could, please, if you feel like it, if you're wearing no clothing, we don't have to do this. If you could describe to us what you wore today, what you wore to work, maybe. I don't know. OK. I mean, right now I'm just wearing like sweatpants, but I'll tell you what I wore to work. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Are they designer sweatpants or like? No, they are from Aerie.
00:07:36
Speaker
Okay, all right. Nice. Yeah, yeah, nice. I don't buy designer's wet pants, they're insane. Good fucking call. Good call. Sorry, didn't mean to interject. So like today I wore it to work, I just wore some vintage polo
00:07:54
Speaker
Andrew khakis like they were just like tan like just actual khaki colored twill chinos. The Andrew model from like the 80s and 90s that had like the double pleats. Oh, yes. Even from the early 2000s. I don't know. I just know I like them. They feel nice. They're comfortable.
00:08:13
Speaker
Um, I wore a, uh, a rugby, a red and Navy stripe rugby for, I think it was like J. Crew. And, uh, I threw on a, the Drake's, um, gray hoodie. Solid. Solid. With my puka shell necklace. Yeah. Sure. Sure. Comfy, but still put together enough.
00:08:37
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And what's nice about, you know, and, you know, I don't want to say too many nice things about Drake's don't want to give them the air time. But that sweatshirt is really nice. It's a very, it's got that like 50s athletic wear, you know, it's got that material is already really nice, like the cotton
00:08:56
Speaker
Um, like that old fashioned, like champion type. And it has like the cropped length. So it's not super long. And it has a really big pocket on the front. And it's like that detail, like tall ribbing.
00:09:09
Speaker
I would imagine that the Chinos are pretty high waist, too. Yeah, exactly. So it complements it really well. Yeah. A follow up question, what shoes did you wear today? New Balance 574. OK. Is that like a standard one? Yeah, the basic New Balance, like old tool runner shape. Yeah, yeah. I think it's 574 is what the name of it is. Nice. Solid.
00:09:39
Speaker
So, excellent. Thanks for sharing that with us. We'll get into it, I guess, now. Of course, you love clothing. You have a clothing brand, you are on the internet, you post pictures of your outfits. Where did that, where did your love of clothing come from?
00:09:59
Speaker
That's a great question. And I was thinking about this today because I was like, this is a good question that they're probably gonna ask me. And I can't really pin it down. I've always been into clothing in some way, shape or form. And I've always been into like tailored clothing.
00:10:19
Speaker
Growing up, I couldn't really afford it. But I've always been really into tailor clothing and then just into clothing in general. I used to always go to the mall and buy clothes. I was in college. I was constantly buying clothes. But there wasn't a single moment that
00:10:38
Speaker
a light bulb went off and I was like, I love clothes, which I was always constantly trying to get my parents to buy me more clothes, always trying to buy myself more clothes. So it's just like from like a youth on, I just loved them. Yeah, I just wish I had a better answer. I just camped into town. No, no, I think that's a very like natural way to be. No one in my family shares an appreciation for clothes. So I'm a one off.
00:11:09
Speaker
Okay, okay. So like, what, like, what did your parents like, where was it just kind of basic shit for my mom's a nurse. So she was like, if she wasn't in scrubs, she was basically in like, jeans and some sort of t shirt. You know, something that was like,
00:11:31
Speaker
It's like on the fancier side. Are you guys familiar with the store Kohl's? Yeah. Oh, I used to work at Kohl's. Oh. I used to work at Kohl's. Yes, I'm extremely familiar with Kohl's. My mom is a big fan of Kohl's. OK. A lot of Kohl's cash. Right, right. I think everything my mama owns is basically from Kohl's. I mean, Kohl's is kind of like the higher end of the TJ Maxx Marshalls thing.
00:11:57
Speaker
100% and that's you know trying to get at where I was like it's like never it's not like it's not wearing like some dingy t-shirt like like you know it's from like you know the so label you know with like some like you know Levi jeans that she got it in a outlet type of thing
00:12:16
Speaker
And then my dad, my dad is like a, like sort of this, you know, blue collar guy. So he's always in like a t-shirt and jeans as well. Okay. Um, yeah. And then when my dad's like idea of like dressing up, he'll throw on like a collared shirt. And that's about it with the jeans, which is fine. Nothing wrong with that. I do it all the time. Yeah, totally. Totally. I mean, you know, we, we all have these, uh, these like parts of
00:12:45
Speaker
parts of what we think are cool or what we're into that like the parents or the adults around you don't really like having any, not respect, but like they just don't give a shit. So. And that's a hundred percent what it is. Like my parents, obviously they're, you know, they're very proud of like the label I've created. They just don't get it. Yeah. And that's fine. But they're, they're still like supportive. They're not like, Oh, I can't believe you do this. Right. They're like,
00:13:15
Speaker
good for you. They're like, if people like what you make, that's great. You know, but like, it's not something that like, they're, you know, gonna get anything out of like, I'm not, you know, they're not gonna ask me to make them a suit or anything. Right, right. Which is fine. Yeah, totally. The support means the work. Right. Yeah. So, so how do you get into the clothing industry from from kind of like,
00:13:42
Speaker
being an outlier and enjoying something that you may not have been around them on. So I kind of, I fell into it in like the most, I guess like stereotypical way. So I went to school for film and TV production and moved to New York city. And then I just got a, I got a job at Bloomingdale's. Okay. And the one on like 59.
00:14:07
Speaker
Yeah, the flagship Bloomington. Yeah. So it was my first job in New York City. And frankly, it was one of my first jobs ever. Because before that, I worked at a concession stand at a flea market. So I wasn't, you know, I didn't have a big job repertoire.
00:14:25
Speaker
But yes, I started working at Bloomingdale's and I was stationed on like the men's accessories. So it's on the Third Avenue side. But the whole the whole block on Third Avenue, where it's like it was like Burberry, like all the luxury like leases. And then like Thomas Pang, Turnbull and Asser.
00:14:46
Speaker
were up there as well. And I got put into, you know, I was floating around, but I was oftentimes like put into cover for like, terminal and asset or like Thomas pink. And so through that, I really got to know the two people that ran those two separate shops. And eventually,
00:15:07
Speaker
you know, I got hired at Thomas pink at their at their like store in Columbus circle, through that like connection. So I guess started Bloomingdale's when I started talking to people like, Oh, okay, yeah, actually, all this stuff is really cool. And you know, I had like, you know, you got like a discount. So it's like, I was able to like dabble a little more and like,
00:15:29
Speaker
you know, beginner luxury clothing like that. You know, because Thomas Pink shirts at that time, this is 2016. You know, at that point, they were like, you know, $195, which is an expensive shirt, especially for me just coming out of college.
00:15:52
Speaker
And being you know coming out of college and that was 20 so the You know 195 was a lot of money but luckily I got like that discount, you know and then occasionally let me just do this thing for the employees where you'd get like a like a weekend where we'd get a super discount for like uniform worthy things and
00:16:16
Speaker
Because when I was working at Bloomingdale's, there was a uniform. You could only wear a black suit. You had to be wearing a shirt and a tie and everything. So there were certain times, a few times a year, they would do uniform discounts where you could go around the store and get whatever you want at a really steep discount as long as they're qualified for uniform. Now they don't do that because they don't really have a uniform anymore. Oh, gosh, you gotcha. OK.
00:16:41
Speaker
But then I started working at Thomas Pink, you know, and that let me dive further into it, you know, and obviously at that point, I'm surrounded by, you know, English tailoring, English shirting and ties and all that and I got all that stuff they give you, you know, Thomas Pink gave you like a bundle for like free every season of like stuff.
00:17:02
Speaker
And so it became that and I started like, as I started re-eating or researching more, that whole love for clothing kind of came back into my forefront.
Career Growth and Challenges
00:17:13
Speaker
And I was sort of slowly starting to realize, I think I'd prefer to be in clothing than I would prefer to be in like film and TV because I wasn't really doing anything in film and TV.
00:17:22
Speaker
I spent all my time working in like clothing and then research like on my free time I was like researching and trying to learn and you know of course when I first started getting into it I was like one of those you know people reading um what's that uh like gentleman's gazette oh right yeah you know I was like early blogs
00:17:47
Speaker
Yeah, and I was like one of those like, you know, vintage only kinds of people. Okay. But it was it wasn't because I like I don't really like vintage as much as I like new. But it was like I wanted I bought a lot of vintage because I could only afford to buy vintage.
00:18:06
Speaker
Right. Yeah, that's still where I am in my life. And not there's anything wrong with that. There's nothing. No, no, I don't take it. I don't take it as a slight. It just is what it is. Like I have my priorities, you know, I have to buy drugs. Right. Yeah, with inflation, cocaine is through the roof. Yeah. And if you're paying retail, you're not going to be able to afford it. Right. You know, you know, wholesale.
00:18:37
Speaker
Um, sadly, or surprisingly, I guess this is the first time cocaine is mentioned on the show. So thank you, Connor. Yeah. Yeah. Hopefully, hopefully my mom finally listens to the show and this is the one that she, this is the one.
00:18:56
Speaker
Um, yeah. And then like from Thomas Pink, I stumbled into my job now where I work for the, I work for the clothing store, Frank Stella, uh, here in New York city. And I like stumbled, I literally stumbled into that job there. You know, it was, I would, they had, we had a store at, um, and then inside like the New York athletic club on 57th or 58th and seventh.
00:19:22
Speaker
And I happened to be on my lunch break and I just walked in because I'm like, oh, what is this door? You know, I always I walk by it every day.
00:19:29
Speaker
And I happened to be walking in and the owner happened to be like working on the floor. And I was just chatting and we were chatting and I was like, well, that store is actually pretty nice. They have really nice things, things that I liked. And then, you know, I left and then, you know, like six months later, he calls me up and he's like, hey, you know, you came into the store, you know, a few months ago and I was wondering if you would be interested in like a job. And I was like,
00:19:57
Speaker
Yeah, you know Thomas pink was paying me nothing, you know, and he was gonna pay me more and you know, yeah sure and then in these I've worked in after like
00:20:08
Speaker
four and a half years with a small sabbatical in the middle where I left to go work for Drake's. But that's, we'll get into that in a second. But so like in like the first like three, up until like 2021, like November of 2021, you know, I skyrocketed to like the top of like, you know, everything.
00:20:32
Speaker
So like now like the arrangement of like the company is, you know, the owner and then there's like me and then there's like the store manager and everybody else. So like, you know, now I'm doing like buying and I'm, you know, doing like the bookkeeping, I'm doing office work. I'm spending more time in the office than I was on the floor. You know, it was just like, he just put so much like faith in me, you know, and just like bombarded me with,
00:21:00
Speaker
like fashion business knowledge. It was insane and like obviously so grateful for it that I still work there. Totally, totally. You know, I still, I mean, I still take that on 100%. I'm still doing like now since, you know, since coming back from Drake's, you know, I am spending most of the time I spend as in the office that we have on 72nd Street, you know, photographing the stuff for the website.
00:21:27
Speaker
I manage the entirety of the website so I am the one adding products and I'm adding inventory and doing the website merchandising and then I go to buying appointments with the owner. We buy things and sometimes it's like I'm buying something while he's doing something else. There's a lot of trust obviously between the two of us where he's like I can buy something on my own
00:21:57
Speaker
and he trusts me enough to know that it's not going to bankrupt him for the most part. I've made some bad decisions. As you do as a bot. That's just part of the deal. I look at them as they're not bad decisions because they were just too much of something that I would want to wear and not enough of something the customer would want to wear. For sure. The things I bought are gorgeous and I have a lot of them.
00:22:26
Speaker
Right. But. It just doesn't work for. It didn't really sell as much in the store. Yeah. Yeah. You got to take risks. Yeah. But like in like in November of 2021, I ended up like. Oh, you know, I left and I went to go work for Drake's to be there like U.S. stock manager, you know, and it was it was a whole thing. There was a big there's a big falling out between me and one of the other coworkers.
00:22:55
Speaker
And it just happened that Brandon from, you know, Brandon Mahler happened to, you know, post that they were looking for someone. So I like DM'd him, you know, because I had known I already knew Brandon. So I didn't say, hey, you know, I'd love to, like, be considered. And then he calls me like 10 minutes later. And basically, you know, gave me the low down of it all. I said, great. Yeah, I said, let me know.
00:23:22
Speaker
if you need anything else from me. And then he called me back the next day or whatever and was like, hey, they want to give you the job. And I was like, I'll take it. Ultimately, with Drake's, there's part of me that regrets doing it, but then some of it else, I don't. Yeah, totally. But ultimately, I came back to Frank Stella at the end of it right as we were
00:23:45
Speaker
right as like the new store opened at Drake so I was working at the I was working the pop up and at the same time I was you know we were building out the new store right and as the stock manager I was like laying the plans for the stock room and there's just a lot of going there's a lot of
00:24:05
Speaker
A lot of going back and forth in like a bad way that eventually, the week, the day before we opened officially, I put in my notice and I was like, I'm done. So I was there for the first two weeks of the store opening. And then I wasn't even there for like the official, so like the day before we opened for the public,
00:24:32
Speaker
We didn't do anything. Maybe there's no party or anything. They didn't do a thing till like a month later. But like, so like the day after, you know, the day before we opened for the public, I put in my notice, right? Right. So the next day, you know, people are coming in and they're like, oh, wow, nice to see the place. And the next two weeks, people are like, you know, talking to people and like, wow, it looks so good. You know, see you next time, all this. And I'm like, you know, I didn't tell anybody. You know, so no one knew I was leaving.
00:25:01
Speaker
except for like, the staff. Yeah. You know, cuz I wasn't gonna be that person who like every time someone comes in and says, Oh, how's it working here? I'm like, Oh, it's terrible. I put in my notice actually, you know,
00:25:14
Speaker
Sometimes you just got to do what you have to do for yourself, though. Yeah. So for the last two weeks, I was like, oh, yeah, great. Stop on by. I was telling people about it, still promoting, saying, hey, yo, come, stop by. But then on the last day, it was this big. On my last day, we were like, we did a little get together. And I was like, thank you, guys. I even left early on my last day, because I'm like, what are you going to do? Stop me? Right, right.
00:25:43
Speaker
Um, but yeah, I mean, it was, and then I ended up going back to Frank Stella to do what I'm doing now, which is, you know, I have even, I have even more power. So it all comes full circle. Yeah. And so, I mean, it was like, it was such like a short stint at Drake's, right? It was only like eight months. I only lasted eight months at Drake's, but it was like that whole situation, right? That whole eight months.
00:26:10
Speaker
was so stressful and it was such a, it was even, it was a lot for a lot of people. And I mean, it was, it was obviously in a lot, you know, cause Brandon and I left at the same time, you know, and then I don't want to speak for him at all, but you know, it shows, you know, for him, Brandon worked there for four years, four and a half years, you know, and then, you know, at the same, the same day that I quit, he had quit like 10 minutes before me.
00:26:38
Speaker
So it was like, you know, it just, it shows that like, you know, what was really going on. And then, you know, there's just a lot of issues with, you know, different personalities and things like that. But I'm, yeah, back now at Frank Stella, where I'm doing all this, and then obviously I have my own, my own brand, which is where we are now.
Birth of Mad King George
00:27:00
Speaker
Well, speak of the speaking of the brand, uh,
00:27:06
Speaker
we were gonna ask Mad King George, where does the name come from? So it comes from like an offhand like joke. I was in the, I was in a car, I was with the owner of Frank Stella, we were driving out to East Hampton, because we were doing a pop-up, and I had told him I wanted to make my own label, and he told me, he was like, you should, you know, and I was like,
00:27:32
Speaker
Yeah, I should. And I like, it just became we were like, going back if I was like, I don't want to call it though, you know, I don't want to be my name. That's cliche. And I don't think like, I don't think my name really lends itself to
00:27:47
Speaker
a sort of like, really anything. I just don't like the way it sounded. Like what we call like, oh, Jason Sanding on New York. That sounds dumb. And I don't remember what we were, we were talking about something. And then I had said, oh, I might as well just call my brand like Mad King George then.
00:28:07
Speaker
And then he was like, that's not a bad name. And I'm like, you're right, that's not a bad name. And that's really, and like two seconds later, I was like on Instagram and I was like, is this an available thing? And I like Google just to make sure that no one else did it. And I was like, great, that's a name. Perfect done. Settled. Settled. Should I have thought about it a little more? Maybe, but I don't know. People seem to like the name. That's a good origin story. It's captivating.
00:28:37
Speaker
And it's, you know, it also like speaks to like the brand itself where we're still, you know, everything is sort of, you know, freehand. Right. You know, so it's like, because I never went to school for any of this, you know, so so much of this is like new to me, you know. Yeah, but you've got the experience. Right. That's for sure. Yeah. So some often joke. Sometimes that's the necessary thing.
00:29:06
Speaker
Right, right. So I was going to ask if there is a court for Mad King George, or if it is just you? There, I mean, there's kind of like a court. So like, Magginger is like, the bulk of it is like, idea wise, and like, design wise, it's all is like, my creation, I created the pattern, I created, you know, the, you know, bits and pieces of like, the concept. But like,
00:29:37
Speaker
That's not the full story. There's another half business side of it that my beautiful and wonderful partner Tamara, who has a fashion business degree, helps me with. Shout out Tamara.
00:29:50
Speaker
Yeah, shout out, shout out tomorrow. You know, it's like I use like the, obviously I use like the business stuff that like Frank Stella has taught me plus like her knowledge and she helped me like create like the prices and how to like, she's helped me a lot with even talking to like the customers and clients. Cause you know, I'm not like the greatest at like talking to people, especially new people.
00:30:19
Speaker
And so she was like, coach me on how to do that. I'm sorry, my cat has just jumped up onto my table. And so she was a big she helps me a lot with like, the business half of all of this. And then like, obviously, she you know, she helped me a lot with making that the women's pattern because it was made essentially for her.
00:30:49
Speaker
Right, right, of course. But yeah, so it's like, it's, yeah, it's like a, you know, it's it's the two of us, she will never like, say she's a part of it, though, which is, you know, dumb. She's like, Oh, it's always just Jason's thing. But I'm like, No, you help me a lot more than you think you do. Yeah. And how has reception been since you launched?
00:31:17
Speaker
Uh, it's mixed for sure. Okay. But I think it, it is, it's well received by the people that like, I want it to be well received by. Dope. Yeah. Um, the, the people who hate it are obviously like, you know,
00:31:37
Speaker
You know, people are like, you know, our Navy Blazer or like, you know, these very much like purists, right? What was that guy's name? Berkeley Breeze. Yeah, exactly. He would hate it. Yeah. And like the Ivy style people hate it, you know. Yeah. But
00:31:56
Speaker
Yeah, the people who like want like who see the the label for what it is, which is like it is, you know, a bit more of a fashion label than it is like, you know, your typical Savile Row house. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. And so it's not claiming to be. Exactly. I'm not claiming to be, you know, Savile Row or anything. But I think that there's this connotation, of course, if you're doing custom tailoring, you must be that right. You must be trying to be that. I'm like, you know, it's the only reason that's custom is because
00:32:26
Speaker
you know, there's no overhead and there's no risk. You know what I mean? And it gives people the opportunity to express themselves a lot better than with ready to wear. And that's what I want. Like you couldn't get anything, any things I wanted to wear, I couldn't get ready to wear. And so I was like, you know, I made it my own label. And yeah, so it's like people who, yeah, people who expect it to be, you know, who are very like, um,
00:32:57
Speaker
What's the word I'm looking for? Stingent? Is that a word? No, that's not a word. I don't know. They were very much like, oh, things are supposed to be this way forever. Right, right. They don't like it. They're traditionalists. They are old fashioned. Yeah. Right. And so they don't like it as much as I feel like. I remember someone posted
00:33:24
Speaker
someone posted like the lookbook that we did on to like our navy blazer and to like onto male fashion advice. And you have like, you know, some of them like, Oh, I see what they're trying to do. And the and like, or like people be like, Oh, well, you know, the photography style about you know, we did this really bright, we really bright, you know, flash and like, you know, everything was like sort of slick and a little sleazy. And, you know,
00:33:49
Speaker
in the elevator and all that. And it's like, well, they're like, well, how can we pass this? You know, isn't this, you know, when, why does everything have to be trying to be like sleazy? Like it looks so sleazy. And I'm like, cause that's what I was trying to do. I'm like, right. And they're like, Oh, it looks like nothing looks like it fits. You know, everyone's, you know, crammed into it. I said, well, also keep in mind, people will get the connotation of like a lookbook. They get it mixed up. Like the lookbook is, you know, styling. It's not about, it's not so much about fit.
00:34:20
Speaker
Yeah, it's about how someone is going to look in this every day. It's about getting it in front of people and making an expression.
00:34:29
Speaker
Exactly. You know, it's like we're trying to express, you know, the direction of the label and everything, you know, and we're also like in an elevator, we're posing, it's two o'clock in the morning. It's not perfect, but it's like, it's not, it wasn't, you know, another stuff was built, the lookbook concept wasn't built to look perfect. It was built to look like you were in an elevator, you know? Right.
00:34:53
Speaker
And yeah, people couldn't really wrap their heads around that, at least the people on those Reddit pages. And then like, of course, like male fashion vice thought that it was like too styled. Right. Right. Meanwhile, we have Paul Stewart and Phineas Cole doing their thing. Right. And it's like, I think a lot of like, especially with a traditional list, like these like the Ivy style type people.
00:35:17
Speaker
You know, they see, you know, they see a lot of the 70s inspiration in my stuff and they go, oh, well, you know, that's I'm only about I'm about timeless beauty and elegance. And I'm like, OK, those people are not going to be happy with anything. Yeah, those people don't like they don't like anything. They don't like clothes.
00:35:32
Speaker
They don't like clothes. They like their thing that they've worn for the past 50 years. And that's it. Right. It's weirdly like white supremacist. That whole field is like we wish that it was only white people that were able to wear a jacket like this. Right. Right. And it's like, yeah, it's like, oh, well, people just dressed better in the 40s or in the 50s or in the 60s. It's like,
00:35:58
Speaker
Okay, sure. If that's what you want to believe, that's fine. Right, right. All right, but you know, I live in 2022. And that's like a big reason why I don't like really wear vintage or like I don't really like a lot of vintage because I'm like, I live in 2022. Some of this stuff from like, like I'm never gonna wear like a belt back jacket. Right. And I know vintage people love like those Palm Beach belt backs and all that. Totally, totally.
00:36:28
Speaker
But I'm like, you're not gonna catch me in that. Cause I'm like, that'd be a ridiculous thing for me to wear. You know, and I don't, yeah, like I just don't harbor that same affinity that some people have like for the past. You can take inspiration from it. Like I do, like obviously, you know, my stuff is heavily inspired by, you know, the clothing in the 1970s, which most people would consider the worst time in clothing. Depending on what we're talking about. Yeah. Like there's so much good shit from that time period.
00:36:58
Speaker
Yeah, it's just like, I like the really heavily styled things, you know? Like, we have our big bellied lapels, you know? I could see fucking Rod Seward when he was in the faces or like Paul Lovell of the jam wearing your shit.
00:37:12
Speaker
right and that's exactly that was the point it was like you know i am you know a huge like tommy nutter you know if you're familiar yeah is like my you know tailoring role model him and edward sexton and so you know they were you know they were
00:37:30
Speaker
making things for you know musicians and like you know celebrities and like cool people and those cool people let them make cool things for them you know and that's what i want to be you know that's what we want to be we want to be like cool people making cool things and like you know and i always tell people too you know you can get like a navy suit from me but why would you right right
00:37:56
Speaker
You know, if you really want me to make you a navy suit, I'll do it, you know. But it's like, why? Why do you want me to make your navy suit for, you know, let me make your, let me make your like dinner jacket. Right. Right. Something you can go a little bit farther out on. Right, you know. And yeah, so it's like, I guess it gets, it gets mixed up in a lot of this stuff, a lot of this traditionalist stuff, even though like it's not, it's definitely, especially now.
00:38:27
Speaker
It's definitely more of a, of like a fashion label that is like, you know, a tailoring house. Yeah. We, we noticed that kind of like one of the things you push is clothing for everyone. Um, you know, women, non-binary, whatever gender, um, was that kind of like when you were forming this idea, was that a big part of it? Like it's, it seems like a very, very much a pillar of your brain.
00:38:54
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. It was always, you know, I grew up with a lot, I grew up doing theater. So I grew up with a lot of, a lot of like LGBT people. And yeah, and so it's like, I grew up with people and so much of like the clothing, so much of like tailoring is like men's tailoring. And like a lot of women's tailoring just like looks cool, but from a quality level, isn't good.
00:39:23
Speaker
And it was like, you know, I have the ability to do both, you know, so why not? And it's like, you know, why not, you know, advertise the fact that, you know, I'll make you feel good in your own, you know, in your own clothing, right? You know, as we look at it, like,
00:39:48
Speaker
you know, obviously there's there's like still like two obviously two base patterns, like we have our men's pattern, we have our women's pattern. But like those aren't mutually exclusive, you know, if, you know, if, you know, if like tomorrow wants something done and like from the men's pattern, we'll do it, you know, and that's sort of, you know, how we go about it. And there's, you know, we've been working on a new on a new pattern for what I'm calling the pajama suit, which is
00:40:16
Speaker
Um, just, it's completely unlined. There's no padding, no canvassing. And then it's, so it's basically just like a very like drapey, you know, it's just cloth essentially. So there's no like real darting in it. Right. You know, and then like the pants on it are just like a, you know, high rise. They're cut longer. So like they have a little bit of a break to them. Um, and they're, you know, wide. So it's like this really like leisure suit, you know, if you will.
00:40:47
Speaker
And so it's a, I want to, yeah, like I said, I want to create something and for that is for everybody in like the, in the full sense of the word.
Custom Design Approach
00:41:00
Speaker
That's a solid mission statement. Got to hand it to you. Thank you. Not something you see very much from like any kind of tailor clothing brand or, or whatever. So.
00:41:13
Speaker
Yeah. It's always, it's usually always like, oh, men's and then women's are like an afterthought. Right, right. Yeah. Or vice versa, where like J. Crew is concerned.
00:41:22
Speaker
You know, right. Like they, they only give a shit about the women's cause that makes them money. Yeah. And it's like, yeah. So it's like both of those things are important, you know, totally, totally. They both hold equal. And I make, you know, it's, it's funny. Like obviously I'm like a, at heart, it's like a menswear, you know, like brand, but I make more stuff for women than I do men. Does not surprise me in the least. Yeah.
00:41:50
Speaker
Which is fine. I like making things for women. Oh, totally, totally. Whatever works because, you know, the people that get it get it and depending on, or, you know, not really depending on what, uh,
00:42:05
Speaker
Or whatever they are like if they get it if they get it they get it and if they don't it's like I'm not I'm not gonna spend the time or the energy trying to convince people to like buy from me in any you're like in any like way of like
00:42:22
Speaker
you know, you come into like, you come in for like a fitting or like for it to look at things, it's like, this is what it is, you know, and that's it. There is no like, you know, you can't come in here and you know, create whatever you want. You know, a lot of it is like, it's what I do. It's, you know, our pattern, our everything. And then you can pick the fabric, the buttons, and you know, some minor changes. But like, you know,
00:42:48
Speaker
the design of it is, you know, my design. If you want to fully, you know, if you want to make something like, you know, design something yourself, then there's plenty of other places to do that. You know, if you want to change the lapel widths and whatnot, it's like, you know, for me, it's like the lapel width is what the lapels and like the way the jacket especially is cut and looks is what makes it, you know, a Mac and George piece.
00:43:17
Speaker
You know, it's that it's that mash. Oh my god, I'm so sorry. My cat just knocked into the microphone. But yeah, like the you know, Mac and George are such a mash of these different elements. You know, it's slowly, the more you take away from that, then for me, the less it feels like I something I did. And it's like, at the end of the day, you know, I want people to walk around in my stuff, people to know it's mine from the right, right away.
00:43:48
Speaker
And I wanna be proud in it, of it. Totally, totally. How did you land on the house style that you used?
00:43:58
Speaker
It was, it's, I mean, the house style is basically like a Frankenstein of so many other things I liked. You know, I said I was a big fan of like Tommy Neder and Edward Sexton, but also as a big fan of the sort of soft
00:44:19
Speaker
tailoring from out of like Naples. And so I was like, oh, I need like, my own brand would be, you know, a mix of those two things, which is how you get to, you know, our big belly lapels with our like, you know, strong chests. But when you look at the shoulders, these, you know, there's no panic in our shoulder at all, as well as like with your
00:44:45
Speaker
you know, the cleated shoulder as well, you know, and you have the open quarters in the front. And it's like those things all mix really well together. Certainly, certainly. And, you know, no one was really doing that. It was either you people were either of one camp or the other. They're either English, or they were like Neapolitano. There's no middle ground.
00:45:08
Speaker
And not that I'm saying I'm the middle ground either, because obviously I'm on an extremer side of a spectrum when it comes to like, tailoring. But it was like, for me, I liked the softness of, you know, like that Neapolitano, but I liked the boldness that Nutter and Sexton would do.
00:45:33
Speaker
You know, I'd think a lot of it's like the pattern was really, you know, big chunk. It was like, what if you rip the shoulder pads out of, out of, out of like sexton or like out of like, you know, these vintage nutter things, we just ripped them out, you know, and that's, and I'm like, that's why it's like our shoulders a little overlined, you know, and it's a little, yeah, so there's no padding whatsoever in it. You know, the, if it wasn't for the canvas,
00:46:00
Speaker
in these jackets they would be you know nothing they would just be like t-shirts right right yeah especially since you're doing made the measure like that's super important right and and you can get it right whereas doing like a reddit where i'm on there would be people that the shoulder just didn't work for because they they're sloped or whatever
00:46:22
Speaker
Right. And I can exactly I can adjust for that. Yeah. And then you have like, you know, in the front, you have a full we have a full chest piece that's fully canvas. Right. So it gives it a little bit of structure. Right. So that little bit of structure plus I think it's going to mold to you. And then everywhere else, there's no padding, you know, though that wool or the cotton is going to mold to you as well. So you just have after a few wears, you have like a perfectly like fitted and perfectly looking suit.
00:46:49
Speaker
And but that still looks relaxed and cool. Yeah, it's all stuffy.
00:46:56
Speaker
Right. And cool is like, I say that a lot, like, you know, I just want like, I want things to look cool. And it's obviously, it's open to interpretation, which is, you know, perfect, because I change my mind all the time. But like, at the end of the day, it's like, it just has to everything comes together to make a cool suit, something that says it's light, it's airy, you know, it's able to be dressed up or down, you know, just this sort of just perfect garment. Yeah.
Brand Evolution
00:47:27
Speaker
So Jason, I was gonna ask about the advertising and branding, which I think is a pretty strong part of the brand, what the process was like for that. And I don't know how you, yeah, how you arrived at what you did. See, we know the name in that, but I guess like the lookbook.
00:47:53
Speaker
Yeah, so the branding of it all started out much different. I'm not sure if it's still on the Instagram page, if you were to scroll all the way down to the bottom, but I think I archived a lot of it as we were shifting into this different sort of ethos.
00:48:07
Speaker
Um, a lot of it at first was just like, you know, a few pictures and I made this, like, everything was supposed to look like this, um, this, like, mood board. So, like, every photo was, like, looked like it was taped on to the background, things like that. And I also do some of that stuff because, like, I like the idea of, like, this sort of, things are coming together as it, as it all, you know, as the brand essentially still is a work in progress.
00:48:34
Speaker
But when it came down to a lot of the branding and the marketing part of it, it was just like, what did I want to see? What did I think the best light for the stuff
00:48:49
Speaker
you know, was. And at the very beginning it was like, oh, well, it needs to be like, you know, typical, it should be more mensweary. And then it took the turn of like the whole punk thing, you know, and like the initial punk rock phase of it, you know, where it was like, oh, everything was like black and white or like gritty. Everything was rough around the edges. The pictures were like thrown together.
00:49:13
Speaker
And then, and that just changes, like I sort of changed over the last like doing this for like two years now. And so like, over the course of those two years, the punk rock thing for me was like, okay, it's not really where I think the brand is headed. Nor is it something I felt like I could really grow within. Not that I didn't still believe in that ethos.
00:49:36
Speaker
Um, but it just became, I felt like I was a different person, you know, now than I was when I started that, you know, era. And I was like, okay, so we need to like shift, you know, cause I didn't really, I wasn't really listening to a lot of like punk music anymore. I had started to listen to like
00:49:57
Speaker
you know, like happier music, right? And so that shifted like the ethos of the brand because it was like the brand is so heavily attached to me, you know? Right. In that way, it's like, you know, I want the brand to just be, you know, an extended arm of who I am. You know, because it's like,
00:50:23
Speaker
at a certain point, it's like, if I kept doing the punk rock thing, you know, then I'm going to grow to hate the thing that I created. Right. You know, or I'm going to grow in a way that's like, I'm just detached from it, where it's like, I'm forcing myself to stay in this little box. And it made sense at first, because, you know, I was like, you know, when I first started, I was like, I was mad. I was like angry that there was nothing
00:50:47
Speaker
cool about like tailoring anymore or like at all. It was like no matter, it was like everyone was like, oh, well look at Spirit McKay or oh, look at like Anglo Italian. And to me, they were all just the same. None of it looked different. It was all just, everything just cost different amounts. And like tailored clothing is not something you really can pre-impose with. So like, you know, the fact that you kind of stepped out into your own thing that you found inspiration from
00:51:17
Speaker
Like that's important. That's huge. Yeah. It was like, Oh, well, you know, it was like, I was anything. And then I was like, I was more angry. It was like, it was, you know, it was 2020. It was the tail end of 2020. And then it's 2020. I was like, you know, I was like fed up with a lot of things and I was just doing a lot of like going back and listen to like a lot of like, you know, hardcore and things like that. And yeah, yeah, totally. Um, and so it just felt at that moment felt right. I'm like, Oh, cause I'm like, you know,
00:51:45
Speaker
I'm breaking up this, you know, the man, you know, I'm fighting, you know, the tailoring man to make something cooler and better, you know, and I'm trying to, you know, fuck shit up. Fuck it. And then, like, a big part of it, like, toward the, like, in within this year, you know, I was like,
00:52:10
Speaker
okay, but like, where do I what? What is that? What does that do? It doesn't really make it didn't really make the brand feel like it was like a nice welcoming environment. Right, right. You know, and I was like, you know, and I was like, well, I romanticize so much of what I do. And I'm like, that should be the pinnacle of all this. You know, and that's where
00:52:37
Speaker
I was like, you know, yeah, I romanticize this whole thing. And it's much more of a happy and like welcoming place, you know? Right. And it was like, you know, at that time, I had like fallen in love, I had fallen even more in love with like, kpop. And it was just like making me, you know, a happier person was going outside, I was, you know, meeting friends and things like that. I'm like, this is what this is. This is like, you know, you're going out, I was like, my garments, you're going out in them.
00:53:07
Speaker
right you know and where are you going you're going out to do you know like things that I do and I got to karaoke I go to like you know dinner you know I still don't I still refuse to go to like you know menswear dinner spots
00:53:20
Speaker
um but like you know i still wear my stuff to like i go to karaoke or like when i go to like hey barbecue and i fell in love with this you know this more of this like community of you know being excited over about like life and about music you know and i have such a vast you know library of music that i listen to you know there's like there's the mad king george playlist that like if you know a few people are subscribed to right on apple music and it's like
00:53:49
Speaker
Those people have gone such a I'm sure have you know gotten a whiplash because initially that playlist was all like punk old punk and pop punk and Then now it's dominated By like upbeat, you know music or like, you know Dolly Parton
00:54:13
Speaker
So it's been this big switch and then so obviously I remade the logo to be this like broken heart. Because what's more romantic than heartbreak? And yes, it was like this switch and that's what we're doing now. And that's why I was like, we did like the lookbook. I was like, Oh, how cool would it be to like shoot it like in the elevator? You know, it's like,
00:54:35
Speaker
was like, oh, we're going somewhere. And this is just a piece of it. There's more to this little lookbook that we're working on, but it's like we're trying to create this world. We're doing the short film that we're making.
00:54:49
Speaker
that we're shooting like two weeks that centers around this idea of romance and tailoring and how, you know, it all plays together and it's much more obviously upbeat and like things are, you know, happier. Because I as a person am happier, you know, and I can't, I didn't want to continue having like an angry brand, you know. Totally, totally.
00:55:20
Speaker
times change and the fact that you can do your own thing and like figure out you know how it how it affects or how it's affected by you and your mood like that's that's a great thing that's a that's a free kind of feeling to it right and like recently I redid I didn't read you entirely but like you know I changed up the website and you know sort of got rid of a lot of the
00:55:46
Speaker
a lot of the elements that were feeding into that whole like, you know, we're rebels and we're wearing suits and you know, fuck you. I got rid of a lot of that stuff from it because I'm like, yeah, again, it was a piece of our brand. And it was it's still like at the core of it. It's still like we're still you know, it's still rebellious to wear, you know, especially the suits. They're not mutually exclusive.
00:56:09
Speaker
Right, but I'm like, they don't have to be like rebellious in like an angry way. We can be very happily, you know, rebelling because like, it's like clothing makes, you know, me happy, right? I love clothing. So like, why, why am I approaching it with this attitude of like, hating everybody else's clothing? You know, that's not very cash money of me.
00:56:37
Speaker
excellent we got the cash money reference uh so we will try to wrap up with the way we have been wrapping up um well this is this is sort of a custom question yeah what is your favorite piece you have made with mad king george
Favorite Creations and Personal Style
00:56:57
Speaker
Um, so favorite piece, if you can answer that, if you can answer that question, I know I can. Yeah. Um, it's like, it's the, um, the, like I call it the strawberry milkshake, uh, tweed dinner coat, dinner jacket. So it's like, uh, it's this pink and black, um, like check, like window pane.
00:57:20
Speaker
uh like and then it's like a herringbone tweed so it's super cool and i made it into like a dinner jacket i think it's it's on my instagram page yeah i believe i i believe i've seen it um yeah you know link link in the description below um and that is like the cool to this day it's still like the coolest thing i've ever made um you know especially with like we did like you know obviously all you know fabric covered buttons we did like the fabric
00:57:44
Speaker
lapel as well, so it's not like the satin lapel or anything. And it was like, I remember seeing the fabric. I never saw the fabric in person. The people, the Huddersfield, who made the fabric, they had sent me an email about this fabric that they had on sale because no one really bought it. And I was like, oh yeah, let me buy like five meters of it. I'll make something cool out of it.
00:58:10
Speaker
And then I made that and I was like, oh my God, that is, it came in and I was like, I couldn't be more ecstatic about it. You know, the big, really big like cocktail turned back cuffs on it. And it's, it's overall one of the, it is still the coolest thing I ever made.
00:58:30
Speaker
Yeah, it's great. We will definitely wear it. I worked once outside to Connor Rickman's, his film premiere, when he premiered here in New York, I wore it to that. That being said, I made it in like 2020. So like in 2021. So there was nowhere to wear it to. Right, right. Now I have places to wear it to that I just haven't had a chance to wear it yet.
00:58:58
Speaker
I hope that's going to be your New Year's Eve jacket. Oh, there we go. Dude, I mean, I don't think I'm doing anything for New Year's Eve, but maybe I'll find something. You should find something and sold me to wear that jacket. I'll go to the Olive Garden in Times Square. Perfect. Oh, man. I'll find something that you're just going to wear that. Yeah, yeah. Solid, solid.
00:59:24
Speaker
So I would ask then, what is your favorite thing in your wardrobe? Is it the same thing? No, it's not the same thing. My favorite piece in my personal wardrobe is not even something that's like men's rare related or anything. It is this sweatshirt I'm wearing right now. It's a sweatshirt and it is for the Little Manila Line Dancing Club.
00:59:50
Speaker
Oh, I saw that. And so that is, I wear the sweatshirt. I have a t-shirt of the same thing. And it's fun. My actually is like, Tamara actually bought this sweatshirt and I bought the t-shirt and now I'm like, no, I'm gonna take the sweatshirt too. But yeah, it's my favorite piece. It lets me feel, you know, connected to like the community. And like, so this is like, Little Manila is a neighborhood now and as an official neighborhood,
01:00:16
Speaker
in Queens as of a few months ago, as of June, sorry, yeah, what am I saying, as of June. So on to June 12th, my birthday as well as is also the Filipino Independence Day. And so this year, they unveiled a new like, a little sign, like a street sign
01:00:39
Speaker
from the city that says Little Manila now. It's a few blocks in Woodside. So now it's an official neighborhood. And so I bought this little sweatshirt as a little at the Independence Day celebration they did in Brooklyn. So it's like, I was like, oh my God, yeah, I want that, you know.
01:01:00
Speaker
It's nice. Line dancing is a big thing in Filipino culture. I'm not a line dancer. But I was like, oh, it's nice to like, you know, it makes me feel like I'm more connected to them. Totally.
01:01:17
Speaker
But that's my favorite piece of my personal wardrobe. That, or maybe like a pair of corduroy pants from Ralph Lauren. The hoodie. Like the Andrew. But the hoodie, at least it has a good meaning to it as well. Yeah, exactly. It holds personal weight. Yeah, that's one of the better, like, what is my favorite thing, pantsers. Yeah. I'm sure Ethan will say his favorite thing is a vintage blazer.
01:01:46
Speaker
But not me. Right. I'm into it.
Closing Thoughts and Social Media Shoutouts
01:01:50
Speaker
Well, Jason, dude, it's been rad to talk to you. Yeah, you guys do. This is cool. You know, fun and informative. We appreciate you coming on. Thank you. I appreciate you guys having me. Hell yeah. Well, we always like to give our guests a little spot to shout out, whatever they want to shout out. So feel free.
01:02:14
Speaker
I mean, shout out the beautiful Tamara Rotella. No, shout out. Yeah. Shout out Mad King George dot com. I don't know. I don't have anything. I'm not that. That's good. That's it. You're right. Yeah. Yeah. Mad King George also. What is the Instagram? Oh, yeah. The Instagram. It's you can follow me personally. Jason Sanigon TV on Instagram. But the the brand Instagram is Mad King George Taylors.
01:02:44
Speaker
or at Madkin George Taylor's, because every other iteration of Madkin George was taken by some weird person or a history buff. And if you're in the mod culture and very soft English salvo road shit, get in touch with my man, Jason here. Yeah. Well, thanks everyone for tuning in. I am Matt Smith at Rebels Rogues on Instagram. And I'm Connor Fowler at Connor Fowler.
01:03:14
Speaker
And I still don't think we've had any emails, but if you want the email of the show, apocalypseduds at gmail.com. And yeah, we'll talk to you soon. Somebody's got to email us on that fucking account. Someone, come on. Send a spam. We don't care. We've just got no emails. This is anything. Yeah. Jason, thank you again, man. Thank you guys. Thanks so much.