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E7: Rain King Book, with author Geoff Harkness (Part II)
335 Plays1 year ago
Enjoy the second hour of our interview with Geoff Harkness, who wrote the book ""Rain King: The Life and Music of Adam Duritz and Counting Crows".
https://www.amazon.com/Rain-King-Music-Duritz-Counting/dp/B0C5241RM4
In this hour, we talk about when the band's critics have been wrong (and admit when they may have been right). We also talk about how relating to the Crows may be different at age 45 (when compared to 25), the band's move to more abstract lyrics, and whether Adam really never cheated on a girl...
Geoff also discusses his experience early this summer, when he found out that the band already knew of the book, and Adam already had his copy!
Last, we review Geoff's favorite CC concert experience: the August 27-28, 2001 shows at House of Blues in New Orleans.
https://www.countingcrows.com/show/house-of-blues-11
https://www.countingcrows.com/show/house-of-blues-10
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Rain King'
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to Sullivan Street Episode 7. This is part two of our two-part episode interviewing author Jeff Harkness. He wrote the Rain King book earlier this year, a biography of Adam Duritz and Counting Crows, available on Amazon.com. Link is in the description. Enjoy.
Unreleased Songs and Musical Connections
00:00:38
Speaker
I'm not going to give too many details about it so people by the book, and again I love the book, is that one thing I did appreciate is you spending time talking about the movie he produced, the comedy movie, or he was the co-producer, because I forgot about the play that he was working on, the musical, which I guess those songs are not released, right?
00:00:59
Speaker
Because they're probably amazing songs i'm guessing unless there is a account there's a versions of good night elizabeth that have a an alt that talks about a black sun which we know the play is called black sun so theoretically that could be related to that although
00:01:15
Speaker
No one's ever, I think, confirmed or denied that that has anything to do with that. OK. He used Chelsea as one of the songs he was using in Black Sun. And there's another one. It's in the book. I can't remember which song. But there's a second one also. Maybe it was Good Luck or something that he was going to use in there, too. It's Good Luck. Is that the one that you said in the book was also similar to Chelsea? Is that Good Luck? Yeah, right.
00:01:40
Speaker
And also, Good Luck was written during the recovering the satellites writing period. And to me, it seems like he had earmarked that song as the sort of big ballad for recovering the satellites. Subsequently, he wrote Long December. And musically, they're quite similar. I think he decided Long December was, you know,
00:02:01
Speaker
you know, sort of the culmination of this ballad he had been working on that began. It's good luck. I would love to hear him release, you know, that song. It's incredible. Because that is the one album recovering the satellites is I think the one record of theirs, right? I think there's enough on the cutting room floor where you're like,
00:02:19
Speaker
I really like the deluxe edition of that one and he said I think at some point recently that they may have found the the old tapes or something yeah which would be amazing if that's actually true because that would be I'd love I'd love a re-release of that one because there's a lot of stuff on suffocate and
00:02:33
Speaker
Yeah, right.
Ford Theater Concert Footage
00:02:34
Speaker
Have you ever seen the video footage from the Ford Theater that was shot for the, I think it's the whole concert, and the documentary that was shot at the house during the recording, covered in the satellite? A bunch of the Ford Theater stuff was circulating. I don't know if it was the whole concert.
00:02:50
Speaker
It might have been like a part of it. The talk is really good. It's amazing. Yeah, it's on YouTube years ago and it's disappeared. I think that that's part of, they disappeared it because they're planning to release it, I think. Documentary and that concert, incredible footage. Adam has said the tapes have been destroyed and hopefully they found them, but tons of video footage from recovering.
00:03:15
Speaker
I'd love to see that. Right. Well, and also, again, obviously, storytellers as someone who's put a lot of counting curves, video footage up on YouTube, they do not want storytellers up there or whoever is representing them does not want storytellers up there. And I have noticed at times things get disappeared and then and then they get released. Right. That the two meters that some of the Amsterdam stuff got disappeared on me and I was like, oh, OK, I guess someone was enforcing it. And then it's not much longer that that showed up on Amazon's
00:03:43
Speaker
Coda collection, they call it, but there's a bunch of those set. And the two Counting Crows ones are on there if you're ever looking for something to look for in Amazon. And they're great, yeah. They're terrific, especially if you haven't... Suddenly, there's a bunch of Counting Crows concerts on Amazon that weren't there even... Yeah, I mean, I've seen them before, but suddenly they're available again. It's like, ooh, fun. Well, there's also that... There's that app Quello, or Kel... I don't know how you say it, but it's the queue. One of those, yeah. And they had put up a...
00:04:09
Speaker
2008 show from a UK festival I think the wireless festival that I had actually and I don't say this to buy I've hawked and down gone after this up and that came up and I was like I've never seen this footage before certainly not a whole show of it amazing to finally find a fresh show
00:04:31
Speaker
And a good one, a real good one. They're in fine form on that one. One thing I wanted to ask you about, Jeff, is sort of the construction of the book.
Critical Acclaim vs. Negative Reviews
00:04:41
Speaker
The one thought I thought was interesting was that I felt like in
00:04:46
Speaker
putting in a lot of the writing about the band, especially in the 2000s, it kind of gives air to a lot of the critics of the band, right? The people who kind of go to review Accounting Crow's concert and are like, why the hell is this guy doing this? What on earth is going on? And I was curious about sort of the mindset there and, you know,
00:05:13
Speaker
Why? Because it cuts both ways to me. On the one hand, you do want to hear all the perspectives. At the same time, there is a sense that they became a band that kind of didn't care or wasn't aiming for those people. You know, if you were walking off the street and writing about Counting Crows, there was a good chance they were going to hate this. Right, right. Yeah.
00:05:35
Speaker
Well, I think part of it was that I was looking for the patterns. This is Eric and I going into our sociological training where we're looking for patterns. The patterns that I saw in my informal content analysis of those articles and newspaper stories that came out
00:05:54
Speaker
was that early on, the band was just very critically lauded, almost to the point of absurdity where they were talking, you know, just extolling all the books he had read and, you know, it was just almost like ridiculous how fawning the press was about him in some of these big outlets, too.
00:06:10
Speaker
Then later it was interesting to see how the New York Times, Rolling Stone, some of these outlets that were just so reverent turned on them almost. And I thought their attacks were very personal in some ways that were surprising to me. I remember telling my wife, they're really being very personal in these attacks. And she's like, yeah, OK.
00:06:30
Speaker
Welcome to welcome to my world. You know, this is the women have had to deal with these, you know, talks about their looks and all this stuff for years, you know, and so he's certainly not fair game, you know, to to this sort of celebrity bashing that they do as far as so I wanted to show how the critical trajectory of the band changed, how it went from being revered in New York Times and and lauded and esteemed as almost poets to being just really like
00:06:58
Speaker
you know, almost insulted as corporate hacks and all this kind of stuff. And so I was trying to show that and also be honest about how that that changed. But at the same time, you know, continually throughout the book, I'm trying to point out the places where I think they made good decisions or
00:07:14
Speaker
did artistic choices, you know, you know, certainly it's not just, you know, bashing them. And sometimes the critics got it wrong, you know, like the 2007 tour, I think, where they had really revitalized themselves. The critics were bashing it. And I'm like, No, the critics were just wrong about this. They didn't get wrong about that one. Yeah, they missed it. And so there's sometimes where I just say, you know, the critics were saying this, but they overlooked, you know, what was really happening. So yeah,
00:07:40
Speaker
I try to be honest about that. I didn't want it to be a fanboy thing where I'm just like, oh my God, everything they've ever done is amazing from the very first song to the very last song. It's all 10 out of 10s because nobody takes that seriously. And also I know that the fans, even the big fans, even the hardcore fans like you guys are critical also, critical being thoughtful, not just bashing them and being critical.
00:08:04
Speaker
We love to play this part of our game, whether it's The Beatles or any great band about, oh yeah, The Beatles have songs that I don't like, or whole albums, oh my God, that I don't love, and other ones that I think are just incredible. To me, Counting Crows belong as part of that conversation. They're so good that they
Fan Opinions on 'Hard Candy'
00:08:21
Speaker
can certainly handle a bit of criticism. I think my favorite album by them,
00:08:26
Speaker
is probably Hard Candy, which is an album that to me has some of their worst songs on it. But the highs are so high that I don't care, you know. Okay.
00:08:34
Speaker
Jeff, I was literally just about to tease you. I had that on my list for today, which is that I'm glad that you mentioned in 45 minutes ago that Hard Candy was probably your favorite album because you have a line in your book that says, well, like, you know, this is great, this is great. But then some of it, some of the middle of the album, which I want to tease you, you said Modlin Mid Tempo Sludge, which because, you know, I guess, and I agree with you maybe on
00:09:02
Speaker
one of the songs but i kind of like some of the others but i understand your point about some of those kind of experimental songs if you will at least two of them right new frontier and definitely bring you back to rank
00:09:17
Speaker
And again, I know that when the fans of The Counting Crows read that I don't like this song or that song, they're going to take issue with that because I know for some people that might be their very favorite song and they think I have no idea what I'm talking about. But part of the fun of
00:09:34
Speaker
loving a band like Counting Crows is having these sort of conversations about, you know, even like somebody like Bob Dylan, it's like, man, he's made some terrible left turns in his career. He's a genius. But my God, what was he thinking? You know, certain points. And those are fun conversations. If you're a music geek like me to have, you know, and I love that Counting Crows are certainly have always been part of that conversation for me.
00:09:55
Speaker
Oh, and I love that I had no idea. I knew that he was trying to experiment, but for example, I actually didn't know, um, referencing new frontier that when you talk about the origins of the band, that, that some of them wanted to play around in that new wave sound a little bit. So I actually now see that as a tribute.
00:10:13
Speaker
or I just thought that Adam wanted to challenge himself, right? Because Adam likes to challenge, like, you know what, let's make a new wave song. I didn't realize that there was some origins to that. So that's where your book came in. But hey, please, please. Let's say this, you
Adam Duritz's Personal Life Impact
00:10:27
Speaker
just went before about the sort of peaks and valleys of the band, which I do think it is something that people, this band has hit such interesting highs at times, I do think I find in conversations
00:10:36
Speaker
people do sort of struggle with the concept of how up and down at points they've been you tend to find people will say things like oh man remember when they used to always they used to always play like 25 songs and you're like no the math does not check out on that that is wrong like even if you're looking at that like the 2001 shows do
00:10:55
Speaker
They played for two hours, they're great shows, but they played 18 songs each night and they're not, it's just not always true. And the times where people, oh, they was always different every night. I'm like, not always, if you look, there's some peaks where things are going up in terms of that. And there's also some times where things go down. But yeah, I also think you're right that there is something about being a fan of this band because of the way that people responded to them in the 2000s where people were like,
00:11:22
Speaker
Oh, you like the band with the fat guy with the stupid hair. And you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Are you insulting me? And that's I think it's interesting because I think you're right that the fans of the band, because of that time period, tend to take the criticisms a little personally, because it was people were insulting Adam in such a sort of personal way that they're like, it almost became like, wait a minute, you mean I'm an asshole for liking these songs? And there is kind of an interesting journey maybe of the fans of the band because of that.
00:11:53
Speaker
that happened to the band where it went from being a thing that everyone was supposed to like to how dare you like that if you're a serious music band. You're like, what are you talking about? I think the reason there hasn't been a book about Cannon Crows is the hipster critics are too embarrassed to put their name on a book like this, you fools. Yeah, no, you're right. It makes me more defensive. And you're right about the personal attacks. And again, I know that Adam gets so, and so do I, when he'll get interviewed even to this day and someone say, oh, so you dated two of the friends, people.
00:12:22
Speaker
And then inevitably, not only that, but then you get all these online comments like, how could that guy get those grills? That just shows you if you'd be a rock star, you could get, and listen, I'm not saying that Adam was going to end up as a male supermodel instead of a singer, but I love when people, but it just shows you how defensive I am about stuff like that. Not only is it a personal attack, like both of you said, that's kind of unnecessary, maybe in some ways human nature for hipster snarks,
00:12:49
Speaker
but also his sister and a lot of people have said like
00:12:54
Speaker
Adam was always, now he always references, oh, I could get more women and Mr. Jones, I couldn't, you know, that's what it was about. I couldn't get the pretty girl. But then Adam's sister and a bunch of other people said, no, he always had that charm. Like, of course that's part of his thing. And he had this, these deep meanings. I mean, these deep lyrics come from things that also women like, right? When you're this deeper kind of introspective personality. I say the same thing again about like, you know, Billy Corgan in a way or whatever.
00:13:23
Speaker
By the way, I think you said in your book, and this is the one, I almost was going to end with this, but maybe we have a couple more things to talk about, is the one line that you had that I think was actually the most revealing in a kind of a jokey way that either he hinted or he said that he never cheated on, that was part of I Wish I Was a Girl, that he never cheated on any of his
00:13:46
Speaker
Girlfriends and I almost laughed that like really never now again, maybe 90% you were the good boy but i'm just trying to imagine out of all the songs about women and introspection and Sex drive and all this kind of stuff that and and and going and even joked about how Being a rockstar at concerts, you know allowed him some, you know, maybe some good opportunities But anyway, that just made me laugh not that I want to know but I was like really if it is i'm really impressed If not, then I understand too
00:14:15
Speaker
Yeah, right. Well, you know, people try to, you know, always want to make them themselves look good. And he's somebody who's it's true, he gets asked these weird questions about his his dating life and stuff. And in some ways, I tried to steer fairly clear of that material in the book, although sometimes I felt like it was important because it impacted the writing of the music that he was doing. And
00:14:37
Speaker
Yes, I felt like I needed to at some points, you know, bring it in, but I didn't, you know, like, Oh, I'm gonna list every single person ever dated and try to get, you know, to me, it was just like, I wasn't interested. But a question I wanted to ask both you guys, and maybe I'm
00:14:53
Speaker
I'm opening a can of worms here at the 11th hour. But to me, it's something that's interesting about Counting Crows is how we as fans respond
Personal Life Changes and Music Connection
00:15:03
Speaker
to their music. And so my fandom, I think, of the band has changed over the years as I've changed. And a big part of that was becoming a father and getting married. When I was in my 20s, I related to Counting Crows music so much, partially because
00:15:17
Speaker
I was in those relationships where you're up at three in the morning, trying to figure it all out and all that kind of stuff. But now that I've been very happily married for 13 years and I have kids and all that kind of stuff, I don't connect to those songs in the same way. And maybe, Eric, you were making this point earlier, but I don't hear Adam writing songs that speak to my experience in life now as much as
00:15:44
Speaker
he spoke to them earlier. And I feel like partially it's because I have grown and changed in some ways that he hasn't, you know, like he hasn't become a father, he never got married. And those things are, as you know, very significant, you know, hugely, you know, sort of changing to a person. So I just wondered, I guess I wonder about, it's not so much that the Counting Crows
00:16:06
Speaker
you know, have fallen off or whatever. It's just that my life has changed and I don't relate to their music so much because it to me, there hasn't been a lot of it. But to me, it's like I don't relate to possibility days or something like that. Personally, I get it. But that song doesn't speak to me on a personal level.
00:16:25
Speaker
That's funny because yes and no, right? That's what I was getting at with Somewhere Under Wonderland. Now, I will say, and I actually said this at an earlier podcast when we get to it, even though I was older, I still related to Saturday Night Sunday mornings because I was going through the exact same breakdown at the time and I thought I was losing my mind.
00:16:43
Speaker
And so I totally got that, and I had ties in New York City with Washington Square and everything. So I get that. Yeah, it's funny, because I actually think Possibility Days and God of Ocean Tides are, okay, so obviously not having lyrics about kids, although I told Chris in the one podcast, I think it was about August and everything after, I said some of the, or no, off the record, we said some of those songs about love, you can actually also substitute children in there if you think about it.
00:17:12
Speaker
And we use the line for Anna Begins where we said like every time she's sneezing I believe it's love and I'm not ready for these sort of things. Well, that's what you can say when you're holding a baby, right? Because that's exactly what happens. So, but it's interesting because I actually think, we'll talk about this when we get to the album, I think Possibility Days and God of Ocean Tides and a couple songs on there are some of the few
00:17:34
Speaker
that he is talking about like twenty something love but he is looking at it i think from i don't know distance yeah decades past and even if he doesn't have children it would be neat to talk to him about the reflection of the decades and also that we're getting closer to death and mortality.
00:17:51
Speaker
and i think possibility days hints at that a little bit when he talks about the burden of all of our days and how that kind of sticks with you at least at least for me and butter sweet but you're right elvis went to hollywood that was so abstract that and i love actually parts of that song but the lyrics are so abstract and a little
00:18:12
Speaker
I don't see out there, but you know what I mean? And that was on purpose, right? Of some of the kind of imagery and things that, yes, you're not going to have that personal connection. A little bit butter sweet miracle, because I can, because one of the songs is about being in the band, right? And one of them is about being a fan of the band. So those, those I can still relate to. But absolutely. Yeah, I'd like to see a little more, because even all my friends,
00:18:37
Speaker
one great thing about all my friends. And if you see him, but the video is that he's basically talking about how he's a certain age and his friends are having children and kind of moving on and he's not. And I think he could do a more up to date version of that too, about being at the age is now Chris. I do think part of it is that the stuff like, uh, somewhere under Wonderland and the butter miracle suite are,
00:19:03
Speaker
smart reactions to I think the criticism you'd make in that they don't, they are not about whatever Adam's dating life has been like over that period with maybe the exception of a couple of small things there. Whereas there are other artists that have kind of continued to mind that well, where I'm like,
00:19:24
Speaker
I'm sorry, man. I'm sorry it didn't work out for the 50th time with The Girl, but this song was better when I heard it 15 years ago and I kind of believed it a little bit more. Because after this, maybe you need some personal reflection. Maybe that would be helpful as opposed to writing another song about how The Girl left you and it's so sucky. So I do think, again, I think
00:19:47
Speaker
He's tried to grow and evolve with that and maybe, again, I wouldn't put either of those two albums up as, I wouldn't label them their best. But I do think he tried to evolve the writing in a way that isn't so focused on like, oh yeah, I'm just still a guy out in the town. And maybe it's helped, I mean, I think he's been in a relationship for several years now.
00:20:10
Speaker
I don't really track that enough. I just know enough to know that he seems to be talking about the same person still after many years. So it seems like he's sort of a little bit starting to mature on that front. But I think, yeah, no, it's a good point, though. I think that these bands are, this is a band that does kind of touch a certain feeling that tends to, I think, really connect with someone in their 20s and 30s, right? The feeling of like,
00:20:39
Speaker
particularly the early 20s, right? There's a reason why college kids, why it was perfect to tour colleges with Counting Crows, because this is music for people who are feeling all the feelings. You know, if you're 21, 22, 23, this is music for you. And we can all kind of, as we get older, it still reflects, it still hits us. But yeah, the intensity of that feeling, you know, I was listening, I was just listening to a show before and there's, I thought the lining come around about, you know,
00:21:09
Speaker
Um, I've seen what she thinks is love and it leaves me laughing.
Evolution of Counting Crows' Music
00:21:13
Speaker
And I'm like, yeah, when I, when I was, I think I would have heard that for the first time. I was 24 or 25. And I was like,
00:21:18
Speaker
Yeah, and now i'm like Yeah, it still makes me feel that way, but I just i'm Not angry about someone's concept on love quite the same way that I was when I was 25, you know Well, it's funny with that with that song even um, I yeah when that song came out I was I had a bit of a Disagreement with one of my best friends and I kind of but we both kind of said oh, let's get a mail friend We said oh, we'll just take a break, but we knew we were going to come back
00:21:42
Speaker
Being good friends again we just kind of needed to take a little break so in that case I was even though I know it was about gender swapped it I gender swapped it and I said we'll still come around we have too much history. I'm not to but your point by the way Jeff is actually a theme in our pot you know when this podcast is said and done I think that's going to be the theme.
00:22:02
Speaker
that it's actually a coming of age band and maybe the best coming of age band, of course, partly because we can, because that's part of what their stories are about coming of age and figuring out yourself and then reacting to things that either happened or didn't happen. And I actually mentioned that to Dan.
00:22:19
Speaker
I'm when I met him at the troubadour and he was kind of laughing about the podcast and why there's some obsessive fans and I was like. Part of it was the timing that it was these personal stories at a time when you really focused on the person and of course the music's incredible to in the lyrics and the band is unbelievable and all that so yep.
00:22:37
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And I want to also defend Possibility Days is just I want to make clear, I think it's maybe the best song on that album. I love it. I think it's absolutely beautiful. I just meant that they can have a song that I think is just absolutely like a 10 out of 10 song, but I don't connect with the lyrics or like the meaning of the song the way that I might have before. And I wonder, I guess my point is that seems to be more about me than it does about them, because that's a great song. It's just
00:23:07
Speaker
I'm at a point in my life where I don't, it doesn't feel as personal to me or something. Right. You didn't have your first kiss with a girl recently and then she flew back to London, right? Where there's some kind of disagreement about, no, because you're seeing the same person every day and whatever. Actually Eric got a funny story. A combination of the two, right? Because the songs are a little bit more abstract, right? Yeah.
00:23:34
Speaker
I know what God of Ocean Ties is about, but really God of Ocean Ties could be about a lot. I mean, it's a fairly abstract conceptual thing. It's kind of interesting. I feel like on some of those, the recent records, he always said, I resist kind of giving you these details, but some of the songs that I feel like I understand the best in the recent records are the ones where he explains like,
00:23:54
Speaker
No, no, no, like, I'm on a bus, I'm doing these things, these things hit and you're like, Oh, I understand God of Ocean Tides now because I understand the lead the aspect of sort of leaving people behind in that feeling. Or the same with tall grass, we are like,
00:24:09
Speaker
the person taking a train to, he's in a place in London, she is his girlfriend. She takes a train to Paris and that leaves him, and you're like, and that helps you kind of into a song that is otherwise fairly abstract about certain feelings and the process and art.
00:24:26
Speaker
stuff you know which is interesting again talk about the contradictions and the sort of the journey that he's gone under where he's always resisted those details and now he's kind of sometimes maybe having to give those details because the songs used to have all the details in them it used to be like who's Anna well her name was Anna
00:24:44
Speaker
Right. Well, thanks for bringing it up, actually. And by the way, Jeff, that's what I said. I know I'm not the only one. And part of it, of course, is in my own mind. But I was in the UK last year, shortly after Butter Miracle. And I'm taking trains. And I'm seeing the grass plains of the UK. And then I'm following them around the UK, kind of what he's talking about in Bobby and the Rat Kings. You have some almost groupie. And so it was funny. But even that song in Tallgrass,
00:25:12
Speaker
I thought one line when you were talking about, which I actually totally agree with you about what you said about relating to certain parts because now you're middle age or whatever, but even his line where he's talking about
00:25:25
Speaker
some of the innocence gone, right? And then we don't know what, once you lose that innocence, I guess in a way I was buying, that's not from a 20 year old saying that, that's from somebody maybe in middle age thinking back to things that happened in their childhood and how that changed maybe the trajectory of their life or whatever. Anyway, I always think of the thing about birthday cakes with the God of Oceans tides, right? Or candle wax on paper plates a little bit, anyway.
00:25:53
Speaker
I guess my point was that Adam did such an incredible job of articulating all the feelings, as Chris said, of being in your 20s. I would just love him as an artist at his age now to do something that spoke about his experience of life at this age and looking back and what it's like. They could speak to me
00:26:14
Speaker
on that same level, just because we've both grown. I've grown and he's grown. So as an artist, I wish he still had the ability to say something to me that was as impactful as those things that I was hearing at a different age. I don't say this as a criticism of the Counting Crows. I say it as more of a thinking about what it means to be a fan of music and a listener, a lifelong listener of an artist. Part of it is, though, I think as I get older,
00:26:43
Speaker
I tend to connect more with people who are writing songs and are basically the same age as me. It used to be, it was sort of like, oh, these kind of older brother types, right? I'm curious, it's significantly older than me. I guess he'd be like my uncle or something. But that kind of thing. And now, as I reached sort of, I started seeing in my mid 30s, people starting to write things about what it's like to be
00:27:13
Speaker
you know, going through the same sort of stuff. Part of it is that they're writing now with enough reflectiveness because they are, well, my favorite artists happen to be around the same age as me. And that sort of works for me better than like, I don't know exactly what, again, I'm always willing to listen, but I'm not sure exactly if Adam would have as much to say to me as certain other
00:27:38
Speaker
you know, records that have really spoken to me over the last five years. Strandevokes, Eraserland, Andrew Bryant's private window. There's a lot of stuff that I don't want to like just name records, but like stuff where I'm like, oh yeah, we're basically, you know, the same age and they're talking to me as if we're just friends essentially.
00:27:59
Speaker
I was thinking about your comic, Jeff, and that somehow it's really genius. And I'm not even sure why. And we'll get into this when we get into the actual deep dive on recovering the satellites, but how some of those songs and particularly I'm thinking recovering the satellites, but maybe also have you.
00:28:16
Speaker
to a lesser extent, have you seen me lately in some of those, how they're about his celebrity, which none of us can relate to, yet recovering the satellite seems so relatable and I am not even able to put my, now have you seen me lately? I kind of get because like, oh, have you seen me lately? I'm changed from what I was a couple of years ago or whatever, even if you're not on the radio. But something like recovering the satellites, I don't know why that hits so well, even though in some ways it has nothing to do
00:28:43
Speaker
with anything that we've gone through, but it feels like it does. So anyway, I think the record feels particularly fresh in a pandemic, in a post, in a COVID influence world.
Influence of Live Performances
00:28:54
Speaker
I think the feeling of disconnection, I actually think they absolutely should re-release that record because I think a lot of people would rediscover and love that record.
00:29:02
Speaker
in 2023 because it's just I think it is quite quite on point. Can I mention on the New Orleans show? I know we might have some final but but again we've been taught and don't forget you can download the bootlegs of this on crows town and I'll put the link on the description again if you're interested and we had and we like to have our guests listen to some of their classic shows but one thing that struck me so hard on on listening to those shows that you went to Jeff was that
00:29:31
Speaker
the crowd was singing along to the lyrics of Recovering the Satellites, which was not even a single. And it's not like a catchy poppy song from the album Recovering the Satellites. And I was blown away. I mean, can you imagine going now with thousands of people and then the whole crowd like, get back to basic? Like it would never happen. Like maybe 12 of us know those are, you know, I'm exaggerating a little bit, but I don't know if that struck me. I mean, besides mentioning New Orleans and Miami, that really struck me.
00:30:00
Speaker
about how big they were and how many people had that album and even a non-single, they knew the lyrics and wanted to sing it back to Adam.
00:30:09
Speaker
Yeah. Oh my gosh. And I was also listening to those shows and like, you know, obviously it's a song that's more known, but the crowds singing along to Omaha and Rain King, you know, I mean, they're just, you could just hear it sort of coming through the speakers. That show, the second show, I mean, one thing, because I didn't talk much about these New Orleans shows and I apologize, our conversation has been so interesting and free flowing.
00:30:33
Speaker
But those shows, one thing that I noticed in the liner notes they talked about, Night One is one of the most amazing shows they ever played. What I remember is going, driving all that way and going and seeing Night One, and at the end of the night going, did I just drive a thousand miles for nothing? I don't want to say nothing. No, I don't want to say nothing.
00:30:58
Speaker
Was that worth driving a thousand miles for that show? I'm not so sure. And then the next night I went back and it was like, I looked at my friend right after they played Anna begins, which was the second song, maybe even at the beginning. And I just, we looked at each other and I just went, oh wow, it's going to be one of those nights tonight. And that second show, I think that's the second best show I've seen them play that second night in New Orleans. There's something about a band when they're,
00:31:27
Speaker
on the road and touring and they stop in a town and they don't have to travel, so they get to be there for a couple of days. There's something about that second night, they didn't have to do a sound check, set up, tear down, all that kind of stuff, so they had a much easier day. And of course, they love New Orleans, so they're much more relaxed, they don't have to work as hard, they have more fun. It's so funny, that second show, Adam comes out, I forgot about this, but he talks about how full he is.
00:31:52
Speaker
Because he had eaten this giant like New Orleans meal right before that and of course we could all relate too because we're in New Orleans all you know eating all the New Orleans food too, but Just how much fun those shows were and how personal bull he was how personal the shows felt? You know, I was struck by that having seen them this year Just and then going and listening to those shows. It's like wow this was
00:32:16
Speaker
you know, so personal and all felt so intimate at all. You know, he was the things that he talked about and just talking about being full and everything. He was just so funny. And, um, but I, I do remember, I was getting out about him and the women and be, I mean, he's a bit being charming and open. And that's what I said, this isn't really, he, even if he wasn't a rock star, he would be a very charming and likable. Yes. Does he get moody and stuff? Yes. And he's allowed to be a little more moody as a rock star, but that's part of what, why we like him. Yeah. So anyways,
00:32:46
Speaker
so great shows that especially that i'll tell you i mean even though i know people like night one night one night two was something special that was a very special show and you could tell from the minute they started it was just like there's something going on tonight where these guys are are about to bring it and that show even if the set list you may not like it as much or whatever it's like man i don't know what it was but they they uh
00:33:08
Speaker
they were in an extra gear that night for sure it's a great show. He's not someone's ever had a poker face about playing like it's it's and I think as he's gotten older he's gotten a little bit more consistent but sometimes that's the beauty of some of those earlier shows is you're like oh he's in a good mood tonight and it's very obvious what kind of movie he's in and that's going to influence the show. I did think it was interesting like that
00:33:30
Speaker
You know, they're two nights in a row.
Concert Setlists and Arrangements
00:33:32
Speaker
They're very different shows, but at the same time, they don't change. They only change about a third of the set. Again, we always think about these like glory days, but it's only six songs, I think, in each of them that are different in part because they play so much of hard candy, which again, that's part of it. It's like you're hearing those songs for the first time. So you've heard them for the second time and you're like, well, I guess I could go for that again. I, I really liked that one. I haven't heard it before. Um,
00:33:56
Speaker
but also just the depth of the alts in those songs, where he is going all sorts of different places. Chris, correct me if I'm wrong, because you're our...
00:34:09
Speaker
We need expertise for us, right? That Jeff's the historian and you're the lot, you're the, you're the concert and, and, and crosstown bootleg expert. And I'm more of the, maybe the studio album and lyric and lyric guy. What'd you say? I'm the, I said, you're the looks guy and you're, you're the, you know, looks and charm, Adam's looks and my charm. But, but it, that, but what really struck me just cause you were mentioning the alts and I thought this was a good point to mention and, and, and you could correct me on this.
00:34:36
Speaker
that the Have You See Me lately seemed really unique to me because it was a mix of the acoustic and electric in the same song? Yeah, there's periods where they've done that. But yeah, this is sort of the time period where they've kind of taken the tune
00:34:52
Speaker
arrangements of the songs and kind of push them together, which I, I had a note that I was like, Oh man, I love this version. I actually can't remember how frequently this they played this one, but this is that sort of era. Same kind of with Mr. Jones, where we're sort of playing something between the acoustic and sort of full electric version. It's kind of somewhere in the middle. Oh, and right. And he would even start with the maybe, yeah, the, that. So you want to be a rock and roll star. Exactly.
00:35:18
Speaker
Did I also, is this also Counting Crow's trivia? I never knew before that the one song that they on the set list was called Insomnia is either it was or is up all night, which also is called Frankie. So the only Counting Crow song that I know of that has three titles. Okay. Thank you. That was a little bit of trivia. I did not know. Someone named because Richard Manuel was dead. Everyone correctly gets his called.
00:35:46
Speaker
Richard Manuel is dead even at this stage. They're like, oh, he says Richard Manuel is dead right there. And you go, oh, that's clearly the name of it. Yeah, I also thought that was a great version of Black and Blue upon second listening. That's a song that sometimes, all jokes aside, Jeff, that when I first heard it or when I first heard Art Candy was one of my, yeah, I thought like you may be somewhat mediocre, but certain times that I've heard it live or like that one, I was like, wow, this is quite a good song.
00:36:14
Speaker
Sometimes they grow on you or you hear it like colorblind is a song that i never love that much but every time i hear them play it live it's great you know and i'm like i don't know why i don't listen to this sign on the studio version but when they play it live they get me every single time 100 you know so
00:36:32
Speaker
I was going to say, I had a look at those set lists. There were only four songs that they repeated the two nights that had been released or were from the album. So Rain King, Omaha, Angels, and Hanging Around, where that only repeats the two nights, which is amazing, other than unreleased songs. Oh, the release stuff. Yeah, exactly. They repeat the unreleased stuff, which is interesting. Yeah, the unreleased. Which is also kind of ballsy, right? Those are the songs they're repeating. Yes. And then Good Time, they only played it the first night. Carriage, they only played it the second night.
00:37:00
Speaker
But then, you know, night one, Mr. Jones around here, recovering. Have you seen me lately? Good night, Elizabeth. Wish I was a girl. Only played that night. Night two, Carriage, Anna Begins, Sullivan Street, Murder One, Catapult, Long December, High Life. I mean, I was like, man, I saw a lot of good songs in two nights. You know, like, that's incredible.
00:37:20
Speaker
the other thing that's interesting is it's that you mentioned that first night how many i think you could probably count on one maybe you get to a second hand but of full shows they've played since its release that doesn't have a long december it's that's a really rare thing that you got to see that that first night of a show without like
00:37:39
Speaker
that's a full show right obviously they play radio things they didn't play it but to play like a two-hour show and not hit along december has been a very very rare thing for them um and i actually really like that the the version of long december the second night which is the solo piano maybe with charlie i could i felt like i could kind of hear like accordion at different parts of it maybe but
00:37:57
Speaker
Um, certainly the stripped down version of a long December. I'm, I'm a real fan of where it's just kind of him. Was that 2000? This is 2001. And if anyone's going to looking for them, it's August 27th and 28th, 2001. And again, if you go in the.
00:38:11
Speaker
hard candy era of Crowstown, you'll find them. Well, it's funny you said that, and we'll talk about this in a future show, is I just started and I went through seven of them. As I said, I've been to, what, 19 shows. And at one point I did have a spreadsheet about what songs I've seen live years ago. And I had the first, can remember I'm a math guy. But then I lost it and got rid of it. So I started doing it. And it's funny, one of my 2001 shows, maybe both of them, Long December was not played. So that might be the one year. So it might be the one year.
00:38:40
Speaker
Yeah, one thing I'll talk about you off the line is that that the one show I went to which was one of the colleges It was it's actually a college that nobody knows about including me. I think it's called like Washington College It's not Washington Lee. It's not University not George Washington and it's in around the Chesapeake of Maryland and I know the set list does not seem to be available anywhere. So it'll be interesting if there's a bootleg We'll look at that look
00:39:07
Speaker
That though, at the very least though, you could probably take an educated guess given they played a lot. That college tour, because remember Matt was out. You didn't tell that story in the book, Jeff. That college tour, the set lists are pretty consistent, although I actually really, really love a lot of those shows. I think they sound really great on that tour with whatever they were doing to the songs at that point. Maybe because Matt was out, they were rearranging them slightly in ways that I happened to like, I guess.
00:39:32
Speaker
The other thing I say, I'm a big alt guy. Some of the alts are the bigger ones, right? Rain King, his Thunder Road, and then O. Susanna. Although, of course, he mentions Louisiana in O. Susanna, which people, that gets a strong, that's one of my least favorite Rain King alts, but that gets a pretty big response. I guess it makes sense that he's singing O. Susanna in New Orleans.
00:39:53
Speaker
Yeah, I think so. Yeah. One of my favorites in here, they do Come Pick Me Up in the middle of Round Here, which is one of those songs that like, I know I've made the comment a bunch, and you may have heard it, but like, that sometimes I don't love when the alt kind of doesn't really fit the theme of the song. And I'm not really sure that Come Pick Me Up fits in the middle of Round Here from a thematic perspective. He just sings the shit out of that song though. I just think it always sounds great how they play it. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:40:23
Speaker
Yeah, there's a clip that came out online a few years ago of him singing four or five lines from 3 a.m., I think it was, by Rob Thomas. He's just on stage with Rob Thomas at some club or something. And Rob sings about half the song and then gives it to Adam, who sings it.
00:40:39
Speaker
I'd never heard him sing it. And you're just like, man, this guy could just take anybody's song and just, you know, you just did better than an entire career, you know, in a few lines of this song. You just took their signature song and you just owned them completely. He's such a great singer, whether it's his song or somebody else's song. His ability to sing other people's songs always blows me away.
00:41:05
Speaker
No, I agree with you there. Well, he's very good, I think, intellectual at re-contextualizing those songs. Very rarely do you hear him sing a song and go, oh, it kind of sounds like the original. And as a result, again, sometimes it works, maybe sometimes it doesn't. But if you're tuned to him hearing him sing, a lot of times you'll go like, man, that does sound better to me than any time I've ever heard that.
00:41:27
Speaker
Original song even heavily covered songs like right I've heard a million different people do friend of the devil and I still think he Sings it at a friend of the devil a million people have done big yellow taxi or you ain't going nowhere And I'm like I'm picking a version. I'm probably picking the Counting Crows versions of those songs Even if I'm probably not picking you ain't going nowhere. I'd really never ever really like that song very much but I
00:41:54
Speaker
I forget if you mentioned it in the book that anyway, I know we're wrapping up and I do have one question. This is not it that I definitely want to end with, but yeah, when we were talking, or I was talking about his kind of recent obsession of kind of Palisades Park and the suite and things flowing. And I know that he was somewhat inspired by, and some of the shows they were playing what the beetle, they were playing a beetle suite, right? Do you know what I'm talking about? Yes, when they were doing...
00:42:20
Speaker
Yeah, the medley. That somewhat inspired him, too. So anyway, that was interesting. Chris, do you have a final couple of questions? I do have one that I want to end with. The one I rejected. Did you end up getting to listen to any of that 2006 show I sent you?
00:42:34
Speaker
the parking lot. Yeah, so a little bit. Yeah, I did. And of course, heard him introduce or maybe it's his post introduction to Big Yellow Taxi, which was fun to hear him talking about how they were contractually required to play this song at that show.
00:42:51
Speaker
Yes, so I did. It's a very anti-parking lot song, but for some reason they wanted us to play it, and we're okay with playing it. We're fine to play it. We like playing the song, but it's a very... Jeff mentions in the book there's a show where they played a parking lot in 2006.
00:43:11
Speaker
And I found that version of that song and he literally talks about how weird it is to be playing Big Yellow Taxi in what is apparently a giant parking lot from outside Kansas City. Yeah, and he said, I don't think they listen to the lyrics very carefully. It's a beautiful parking lot, but I don't think you listen too carefully to the lyrics of this song.
00:43:31
Speaker
Anyway, so I really appreciate that and thank you so much. In some ways, I almost wish I could just go back with every single show in hand and revise and correct. Well, that's a good second book that's all just, we'll just start sending you stuff and you'll try to second under like an addendum with just footnotes with all that concert lyrics and these around. Oh my gosh.
00:43:56
Speaker
Which is also, it's funny actually, I pulled it up. I think I, cause I, I paraphrased it when I started typing. I was like, this is so interesting when he started saying this, but we talked about how literate Counting Crows fans, he's like, he says it's they don't listen to the lyrics, but you know that you're all very literate Counting Crows fans.
00:44:13
Speaker
So we are, right? We're all very literate counting crowsands and we've listened and we knew what the lyrics were about. Absolutely. Absolutely. So I'll, as we send a wrap up again, this, or not again, but this might be a two part, this might be a two part episode. But I do want to end with the elephant in the room, which is that not only you wrote this book, but you know,
00:44:36
Speaker
whatever this is less than three months into it, that Adam knows the book, has a copy of the book, has probably read the book or so please can you talk about how you know that Adam knows about the book and maybe that could lead to later an interview with him or whatever but or just that what that means to you that obviously for a lot of your life
00:44:59
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I know he is a fan of these types of books. He reads these types of books just like I do and other people do. Some people read mysteries and some people read romance novels, and I read rock bios, I do.
Meeting Adam Duritz
00:45:15
Speaker
And he does as well. I just know this from interviews and I know it from seeing his bookshelf. He's a fan of this genre. So I said it wouldn't surprise me at all if he read this book because he reads these books. And secondly, since there's never been a book, I would think that he has to think how
00:45:32
Speaker
The same thing I thought, how's nobody ever written a book about us? This is insane. We've sold 20 million albums. We have songs that are beloved by eight-year-olds and 80-year-olds. Everybody knows this. Our songs play everywhere continuously. How come nobody has ever written a book about our band? That's crazy. So I kind of figured that because I knew that he reads these types of books and also that he has to feel
00:45:57
Speaker
as many of us do, like a little taken aback by the lack of respect, shall we say, for the band, that he may be able to get a copy of the book. When I was finishing the book, I looked to see where they were playing. I knew that they would be playing, and I noticed, oh, this is great. They're going to be playing in Omaha, Nebraska. I was going to be visiting friends and family in Kansas City at the time. That's my hometown.
00:46:26
Speaker
And I thought I could drive up to Omaha. I've done that trip before. I could drive up to Omaha and maybe somehow give them a copy of the book or something. That would be amazing. And then when I went online to look, I saw, oh, they have these VIP, you know, go to the soundcheck tickets and stuff. I've never done anything like that in my entire life. And they're kind of expensive, too. And so I thought, that's kind of crazy. But I thought, wow,
00:46:52
Speaker
that kind of motivated me to finish the book. And I thought, if I could finish the book and buy this ticket, maybe I could actually hand a copy to him personally. That would be incredible. So long story short, I go to the show and go to the backstage, whatever the backstage thing is. They have their concierge there. And I tell him, hey, listen, I wrote this book about Adam. And I'd really love to give him a copy. Is there any way you can get it to him? And he said, I just saw Adam like one minute ago backstage. I'll take it to him right now.
00:47:21
Speaker
And I said, great, let me write something in it. So at least, you know, whatever. I wish I had had a lot more time to think about what I was going to write in there as this guy standing there waiting for me. So I scribble something in the book and he takes it back there and comes back a few minutes later and he says, Adam has the book and he knows you're coming to soundcheck.
00:47:40
Speaker
So I said, great. All right. So we go to a soundcheck. There's maybe not even 10 of us there. It's a big open floor. There are no seats on the floor. So we're just standing on the open floor of this Omaha venue watching the band doing their soundcheck. And they do one song.
00:47:57
Speaker
Yeah, I'd have to go look. Maybe it was Michael Angelou. Can I ask how many people were at the sound check? The one time I did this, I want to say it was like 30 or something? No, no, no. Maybe 10. I don't even think it was 10. Oh. It was really small. It's the concierge. I have video footage so I can look, but 7 to 10 at the most. A very small number. When you say concierge, yeah, it's not security. That's just someone who was in charge of the
00:48:22
Speaker
of the soundcheck people and stuff, make sure you're in the right. He works for the band, yes. He works for the band. It's a guy named Charlie who works for the band. And he's there to just kind of be our liaison and kind of keep an eye on us. So he's the guy who took it to him backstage.
00:48:40
Speaker
And so we're there at the soundcheck, and it was. It was that guy, Charlie, and just a few of us. I mean, I really do think it was like seven of us or something who were watching the band. They do a song. I think it was Michelangelo. That sounds great, very beautiful. And then Adam comes up to the microphone and says, insider information.
00:49:01
Speaker
You know, the reason that Steve Bowman left the band and he starts talking about why Steve Bowman wasn't in the band anymore. And he says something that he said publicly before, which is that I like Steve Bowman a lot more now that he's not in the band than I ever did when he was in the band. He said that publicly. So I think I can share a game to say that.
00:49:21
Speaker
So and I thought, wow, that's crazy. And then he starts talking about the reason Matt Malley left the band and he starts talking about the reason Ben Mines left the band. And and I'm thinking to myself, it sounds like he's talking about things from the book, but I also thought there's no way that he's talking about things from the book. I've never I've never been to one of these sound checks. I don't know how he acts at these sound checks if he talks to people or what he does. I have no idea. But I'm thinking there is no way he's talking about the book. First of all, I just gave it to him. But I did think maybe he's got a copy, but
00:49:51
Speaker
It just never occurred to me that it could possibly be talking about the book. I just thought it's coming out here to tell us these crazy stories about why different people have left the band.
00:50:01
Speaker
And so I asked him, because he was talking about Matt and Mallee, oh, and he turns to Immergluck, and Immergluck says something, and he says, no, no, that's in chapter four. You got to read chapter five, blah, blah, blah. So I said to my friend, he's definitely talking about the book. So my friend asked me, he says, say something, say something. So I said, Adam, because they were talking about Matt and Mallee, and I said, does this have something to do with the Rolling Stone article, or the letter that got printed in Rolling Stone? And so Adam turns to me, and he comes and starts talking to me directly.
00:50:30
Speaker
and telling me the story about, you know, it's in the book, but about Matt and Ali's letter that he wrote the week of the 2004 election that was printed at Rolling Stone. And so my friend starts to videotape and Adam says, don't take this, don't take this. And so I don't want to repeat, I'll tell you guys off the record.
00:50:47
Speaker
But I want to repeat what he said because, I don't know, he said, don't tape it. So I won't say what he said, but it's probably things that he said before. Anyway, he's talking about why different people left the band. I said, was it something to do with the election and the letter in Rolling Stone? And he's talking about that a little bit. And I said, was it something to do with the yoga meditation thing that he got into?
00:51:07
Speaker
And he said, no, that stuff was all, I wrote about this in the book. Matt Malley was very into this yoga meditation stuff. He got way into it before he was in Counting Crows. He was so into it that his guru arranged a marriage to someone else who was a follower of this. And so he was way into it. And my point in the book was that
00:51:30
Speaker
at the very least, has put him at odds with his bandmates who are like, you know, rock and roll guys out on the road drinking party and whatever. So I thought, I don't know if this was a problem or whatever. But I just can imagine you have some very incongruent lifestyles here on the same tour bus. And that's had to leave to some tensions. But I didn't, you know, anyway, so Adam said,
00:51:50
Speaker
That stuff was all very good for him. He wasn't brainwashed or taken advantage of or anything like that. He was into that before he was in the group, and it kind of, Matt and Ali said it kept me grounded and everything. So Adam said that stuff was never a problem and was not a problem. He talked about some other things that were.
00:52:11
Speaker
I'm trying to think, oh, he said, are there any other questions? And I said, are you going to do an interview for the revised second edition of the book? And he was like, ah, he kind of laughed. I was joking. I wasn't joking at him. But then he did. He turned to me and looked at me very seriously and said, thank you for writing this book.
00:52:35
Speaker
And to me, it was just like, you know, I'm done. Like, I don't need to hear anything else anyone has to say about the book because all I wanted to know was that, you know, he he appreciated where I was coming from as somebody who reads these types of books and also that he understands that this book was written with a deep respect for the music, you know, first and foremost. That's why I did it that way.
00:52:59
Speaker
So he turns and walks off. And as he's leaving, I said, Charlie, wait, wait, Charlie, Gillingham. I have some copies of the book for the band. And so Charlie comes over and hops off the stage. And we sit and talk for several minutes. And I had copies of the book. And I said, OK, here's six copies of the book, because I already gave one to Adam. And he said, we have two backstage. So we just need five.
00:53:23
Speaker
I only need five. We've got two. We've already got two. So this is when I knew that Adam had already had the book and had already read it prior to this, because I was like, how could he have just read this book when he just got it? But he had had a copy of the book and been going around.
00:53:38
Speaker
and the production guy Charlie not the keyboard player Charlie said oh yeah everybody's been reading this backstage and all the lighting guys are sound guys are reading and stuff this was this was the night of the show you know like it now that they have the book they're circulating it and um
00:53:56
Speaker
Charlie said he loved the cover and was very happy, just thought it was a cool book and everything. He told me that he thought that the Matt and Allie thing was good reporting, that was the term that he used. He said, it seemed like he was saying, the yoga stuff didn't have anything to do with it.
00:54:16
Speaker
It did sort of seem like it was this letter in Rolling Stone that was kind of the tipping point for Matt Mally and what sort of ended things for him. It was interesting. I didn't know Matt Mally became a big rig truck driver after his career at the Bay of Mally. I didn't know that either. Small fact that was in the book that I didn't know until I started researching whatever became of Matt Mally.
00:54:36
Speaker
And Charlie kind of got pulled away from us after that. But it was an incredible moment just getting to talk with Adam and Charlie a little bit about the book, knowing that they had seen it, had read it. You know, just having Adam say that to me, I mean, I that's all I would ever want, really. You know, I mean, that's it. I'm done. Like, thank you, Adam. You know, and I I'll tell you what. And I really mean this very sincerely. When I talk to guys like you and other fans that I've talked to,
00:55:06
Speaker
About the book and they have seen 50 shows or they've seen 19 shows I'm going if y'all hate this book then I know I've done something wrong because You're the real experts here. And so if you like the book at all I feel like I've done my job and I really am very grateful that That you like the book. So I appreciate that
00:55:31
Speaker
Thank you so much. I bought it without any sort of review and tour through it. That's the other thing. If you're the type of person who loves going to see Counting Crows shows in the summer where they sing the saddest possible songs but they feel like they're right for summer, like Mrs. Potters and Hard Candy, this is the book for you. This is your B-Treat, I guarantee it.
00:55:51
Speaker
Yeah. Put some counting crows shows on in your headphones. You'll love it. Yes. And take this in. It's great. And I think, to be honest, you might have to mention it. I don't think it's actually been mentioned on Reddit. I'm not on Facebook. And you know what? I think it might have came on as my Amazon once as a suggested, like before you released it. I think like months before, I think like coming soon and then I forgot about it.
00:56:15
Speaker
And then Chris said, by the way, I got my copy of the book. I was like, what book? Because I'm not on the Facebook group. But as soon as I got it, I devoured it on the plane. And that's why I didn't have all the notes because I read something on the plane when I was.
00:56:26
Speaker
worried about turbulence, not taking notes or whatever. But that I read when I came back. So that's great. So no, I love hearing that, Adam. Thank you for it. That actually made me feel kind of warm inside. Although I am sorry to hear that that's all the validation you need. I thought us Sullivan Street.
00:56:46
Speaker
So thank you so much. And I guess we'll wrap this interview up now. OK. If anybody has anything to say. And we look forward to inviting you back onto the podcast soon. So thanks so much for this special. It was such a great conversation. We appreciate it. Oh, thank you. Thank you. I just really appreciate it, too. There's nothing more fun than sitting around talking about the counting crows. You guys are onto something here with the Sullivan Street thing. Well done, gentlemen.
00:57:17
Speaker
So thank you everyone and we'll see you next time down here on Sullivan Street.