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E19: Dropping the Hammer(stein)
271 Plays7 months ago
In the first half of this episode, Chris and Eric play "catch up", talking about all the Crows news and notes over the last few months.; and even get to a few listener emails.
In the second half, the focus is on Hammerstein Ballroom - a venue for some of Crows' classic shows (and not just the "10 spot" show).
In particular, time is spent discussing:
November 7, 1999 (Eric Attended)
https://www.countingcrows.com/show/hammerstein-ballroom-7
November 16, 2004 (Chris Attended)
https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/counting-crows/2004/hammerstein-ballroom-new-york-ny-3bd450c8.html
SullivanStreetPC@protonmail.com
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Transcript
Introduction and Topics Overview
00:00:15
Speaker
Welcome to Episode 19 of Sullivan Street, where we're going to catch up on counting crows, of course, all the news in the last six months. We've been very busy during interviews and album reviews, everything else. And we're going to talk about one of the special crows historical venues, Hammerstein Ballroom,
Significance of the Hammerstein Ballroom
00:00:33
Speaker
but first.
00:00:33
Speaker
Let's say hi to Chris. Chris, how are you? Hey, how's it going? It's Hammerstein, a special venue, but also a special place for both of us. That's what we're going to talk about in a couple of shows. And you've heard of Hammerstein. That's the Hammerstein. It's horrible. I assume I'm right about that. But, you know, that's one of those things. Who knows? Honestly, I think you're right, actually.
Counting Crows' Recent Activities
00:00:56
Speaker
A lot's been going on. It feels like things are starting in crows land. They're starting to come alive for the spring. I feel like things are happening and it looks like we're heading towards an interesting summer and maybe fall and maybe an interesting couple of years. I don't know. We'll see.
00:01:15
Speaker
I agree. And with the last couple episodes, of course, we had guests and interviewed them, David and Chris, and we hope to do more interviews
Guest Interviews and Time Constraints
00:01:24
Speaker
in the future. That's a lot of fun to do those interviews and we really get to learn a lot. The only, not drawback, but then we usually don't have time to just kind of catch up about the crows or catch up with each other. Let's start off by giving maybe a little note about another podcast.
Adam's Notable Podcast Interviews
00:01:44
Speaker
because Adam did a long-form interview. I mean, he does quite a number of podcast interviews. In fact, in particular, in the last couple of years, I feel that he's really done them, even going back to Bob Saget's, which, of course, Bob passed away. I'd like to revisit that one, because actually, that was one of my favorite interviews, because he actually talked about some deep track things
Album Review: Lip Service and Band Stories
00:02:08
Speaker
there. He even talked about why some of the songs, like Good Luck, I think, never got released.
00:02:14
Speaker
Yeah. Is Baba a fan of good luck? Is that tracks? But apparently Bob Saget, big fan of a sad song. Okay. I know he is a Crows fan and that one, I forget, I have to go back and listen to it. And I forget if he was a fan. I've had that one. I've had that one, my YouTube watch later for a long time and then Bob Saget passed and it was a little too. Yeah, no, I agree. A little weird to watch, but maybe now it's time and it's time to go back and
00:02:40
Speaker
Check that one out. And don't quote me if it was good luck. I think it was, but it was one of the older songs from the demo tape. But yeah, I guess a week or so ago, the YouTube release was on, what is it, Lip Service is the name? I think sponsored by Spin. I waited to listen to it until it got released on podcast. And in that sense, they did it into installments, kind of like we do sometimes here on Sullivan Street.
00:03:02
Speaker
And people said it was a great interview, and it's funny, I listened to part one. I didn't think part one was that interesting, partly because he goes through kind of the same, it wasn't his fault, it was just the questions. He went through kind of the formation of the band, and when was the first song he wrote, you know, that first song about his sister. Just things I've heard before, and I thought had done a lot better with Jeff Harkness's book. There's a lot, yeah, if you could read Jeff's book kind of along with it.
00:03:30
Speaker
Exactly. So I was impressed by that. But then the part two came out, and that I liked a little more. So even things that I heard before, and I'm not going to give it all away. Please listen to lip service. He talked a lot more detail on how the song Long December started and his friend in the hospital and really got into the detail. Long story. And I like that story. That was really interesting to hear and kind of get that detail. And I will say, if you haven't read Jeff's book, well, first of all, you should.
Songwriting Process and Music Evolution
00:03:59
Speaker
This was one of the longer and more detailed, I think, discussions of the formation of the band that I think Adam has done kind of one sitting, right? I always feel like actually one of the great things about Jeff's book is it takes a lot of stuff that had been discussed in different places and brings it all together. And I think this interview was actually another nice place to hear
00:04:22
Speaker
a lot of detail covered. I think the host asked a lot of great questions and really sort of digging into some of these details about how the band got started and what the process was like and choices they were making. Adam's work in multiple other bands at the time and How Can Crow sort of like became the lead band and things like that. I thought there was some interesting stuff there that again, you can find some of that detail in other places, but he really kind of laid it out in long form, which I thought was nice.
00:04:52
Speaker
I agree. A little more detail about the Viper Room, his time there. I thought that was interesting.
Celebrity Interactions and 90s Fame
00:05:00
Speaker
Yeah, there's interesting that the Viper Room stuff is really interesting and sort of how we became a part of that place. But also just some of the casual stories of Adam just like, yeah, a couple of these movie stars called me up and told me I should come to this birthday party and like, just
00:05:17
Speaker
the thing of what it was like to be a, the level of celebrity that Adam Duritz hit in the mid-90s, which. Yes.
00:05:24
Speaker
I think we all knew he was a big star, but sometimes even counting Crows fans, I think forget a little bit how big a celebrity Adam Duritz was like in 1995.
Band Appearance and Public Recognition
00:05:35
Speaker
And also just, it's just sort of fun name droppies sort of stories where you're like, oh, that's kind of an interesting one. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but like I almost think, and I know I'm going to go back to the, I've mentioned before, I like the pumpkins, but I almost think one reason why like Billy Corgan and Adam were almost like,
00:05:53
Speaker
but it has to do with also their look, right? Like Adam with the dreads and Billy Corgan when he started shaving his head, because I think like Eddie Vedder is as big as a rock star as them, but I think almost wouldn't be recognized as quick on the street by the average person, at least that I think, or Adam right away, people knew who he was if they had seen any of their videos or, you know, appearances on TV. Right, very distinct. And I think, you know, Corgan's interesting analysis there too, or analogy, because they're both
00:06:21
Speaker
It's hard to make fun of what Eddie Vedder looks like. He just kind of looks like a rock singer. Whereas Adam and Billy Corgan, even to some extent Kurt Cobain kind of the way you dress, kind of easy to parody. There was some level where I think that
00:06:37
Speaker
in the 90s, especially, created a different energy around all of those people because they became parodiable. I think you're right. I think it's a great point. Good. There's some little stuff about accidentally love in there, but that's just kind of neat. Three other things that just kind of caught my eye. One, people mentioned on the message board and everything that
00:07:01
Speaker
If you didn't hear they are or if you didn't see on their Facebook page, they are recording recording butter miracle part two It's not a sweet not a sweet Which I'm gonna say but which I do think he's serious though that he wants to call it sweet tooth instead of sweet, too He's being jokey, but I think he actually and he said he said even if it was a sweet He wants it wanted to call it sweet tooth
00:07:25
Speaker
Um, it sounds like it eventually already releases one album, but, but who knows for those actually collecting CDs, like I do, that would be nice. Um, he said that their base, he, like, it seems like they're going to record six and he's going to pick four to five to put on the album. Four or five. So yeah, maybe they do all six. Maybe there's a bonus, maybe something's a bonus track or something or just doesn't make the utter whatever, you know, I'd love to know what he does with the.
Recording Process and Song Selection
00:07:52
Speaker
Do you know that story a while ago that he had the sweet...
00:07:57
Speaker
done for Sweet Two and then he shelved all the songs. I wanna know if any of those parts end up getting used later or do those parts get recorded as, you know, are they even like a solo piano song or something? I don't know, I'm just, I'm sure there's something good there, even though he said he wanted A plus material, not, you know, B material or whatever, so. I'm always interested in artists' relationship to that, to sort of their unused work. Yeah.
00:08:24
Speaker
you know, there's, because different artists have different takes on it, some kind of, it seems like they throw it away, sometimes seem to actively, sometimes you seem to be actively reusing it in certain pieces, different things. I'm always just curious to hear about that, especially as someone, I've done a lot of comedy writing, and there's an interesting thing in going back, because sometimes you do find you're like, oh, that didn't work, but I can repurpose. And I hadn't done that for a long time, and I've started to do that recently, because sometimes
00:08:50
Speaker
Maybe I'm just getting older and less inspired, but sometimes it's fun to go back and go like, Oh, that actually totally works. It's just that there's these three flaws. And I, if I fix these three flaws, right. Take us to a different context. There's a different thing. So I'm curious to what extent he's, especially that material, which is more recent, like whether that's just gone or.
00:09:10
Speaker
Is it part maybe a couple of these songs are that I don't know who knows, you know, I would love if that's one thing I always kind of liked about the crows. I mean, we talked about with Jeff, I guess we'll talk about it later that like some of the songs on Saturday night, Sunday morning world songs that they, you know, either fixed up or took out of the vault.
00:09:26
Speaker
I always kind of like that with them that there was a chance that some of these old songs might come back because right even 1492 was an older song and obviously the song August and Everything After didn't
Unreleased Songs and B-sides
00:09:39
Speaker
get released. So I'm always hoping that some of these tracks that I
00:09:43
Speaker
that I love or, you know, Good Luck or some of these other ones end up getting released at some point after getting reconfigured a little bit. My, the one I'm most excited about that when they said they found the master tapes for recovering the satellites, um, the, and I don't know if they, if there was ever details about, to be confirmed this for sure, but there's one song they recorded for that. They only played it once or twice before the record came out or in some of these like Viper Room shows, it's called Suffocate.
00:10:11
Speaker
Um, and I've always liked that song and I'd love to hear a properly recorded version of that because no one's never, and even the tapes that exist of it are not, they're not great tapes. Um, but it's always sounded like a pretty cool song. They're an interesting band because it doesn't seem like there's a lot of leftovers. Sometimes people talk about like, Oh, will they release like a B sides album? It's like, it sounds like there's like half a dozen songs. Like there's just not a lot of, Adam does not sound like someone who leaves stuff unfinished. Whereas there's lots of other writers who've got like,
00:10:41
Speaker
piles. Um, one of my other favorite musicians has been like releasing albums recently where it's just like, I think he's just emptying the vault. He's just like, I got to get stuff out. Yeah, no, I, yeah, I think Chris recorded, uh, my friend, like he released like at one point, um, like 10
00:11:00
Speaker
EPs of like leftover songs from his first record. He's just like, I got this and I got this and like, it's always interesting with that. Cause there's a lot of that songs you're like, yeah, I can see why he left that out. One or two of those songs are a couple of my favorite songs. You know, and I feel like you find that a lot with the people who are really prolific songwriters is that, you know, of those 60, you're like one or two are going to be like the songs you're like, but no one can ever agree in what those one or two are.
00:11:30
Speaker
Right, that's what it's like, oh, if they'd only put this one on the record, I know that. And it's like, no, but then the other person is like, that song's perfect. You're like, that song, that song's just a throwaway, you know? Right, right. Or didn't fit into the scene. Yeah, apparently. I know I've hit on a very deep and never before discussed point that art is a subjective medium and fans and artists sometimes disagree on what the most valuable pieces of their art is. And certainly Adam is someone that wants it to, he definitely is a type of person that would
00:12:01
Speaker
leave out a song that is fantastic. Again, not that there is that many, because it doesn't fit the rest of the album. In fact, he's admitted to doing that, you know, a handful of times, so. Yeah. Especially in the early stuff, right? Where he said, like, some of those songs, he's like, some of those songs are good, but I just don't, I don't believe them. They don't, not like what, like Einstein on the beach is very, very much the classic one of that. Um, the early love and addiction. There's some like good songs in there. They just like, oh yeah, it's like, I didn't want, just wasn't what I wanted the band to be.
00:12:28
Speaker
just songs I wrote, you
Motivation and Inspiration for Songwriting
00:12:30
Speaker
know, when I was trying to figure things out, you know. And speaking of him writing, I just thought he had a really interesting line, which is not surprising to me at all. But it came up during the interview when he was talking about writing Butter Miracle Suite One.
00:12:30
Speaker
They're
00:12:47
Speaker
And by the way, just to reemphasize your point about Sweet 2, he said he was at one point going to force it to be a Sweet, right? And then he said, I'm forcing it. They're just separate songs. And I appreciate that artsmanship with them. But he did make the one line and said, until he kind of wrote that tall grass at his friend's farm,
00:13:07
Speaker
He just didn't really, I think he used the word energy, but it sounded like he did not have a lot of motivation. And he said, he said something like to write songs, like he just wasn't that interested in it. And if you go back and, you know, maybe half the songs or, you know, from Saturday night, Sunday morning were written before or whatever. And then if you look at, uh, you're somewhere in the wonderland was what, nine songs, you might be looking at what
00:13:31
Speaker
five, ten, fifteen, twenty years, where not that many were written, and it seemed like you maybe didn't have the enthusiasm, but it's at least back to some extent. Yeah, no, it's exciting to see that. And, you know, again, he's he's always been someone that, again, hasn't sort of spit songs out, at least hasn't done that for a long time. But it is interesting to hear him talk about that, because it's such a. You know, obviously, writing songs is so fundamental to his nature, but it's also something that doesn't happen
00:14:00
Speaker
He's not someone who seems like he gets up and writes a song a day. It's one of the different writers have different relationships to this. And it's always been
Music Release in the Internet Age
00:14:08
Speaker
one of the interesting things with Adam I think is that it's when the inspiration strikes.
00:14:14
Speaker
Yeah, or the motivation, right? And I get that feeling from him a little bit that he could afford, but then he deals with some of the mental concerns and everything, but accidentally in love he forced himself to do it and it came out. And when he wanted to be a rock and roll star, he had more motivation, right? Yeah. Well, I also think, though, there's something to the idea of
00:14:35
Speaker
There's a lot of comments around the end of, around Saturday night since the morning's era about how like the album might be dead, right? Like that people, I think he was very early on the idea of like, look, the internet changes the way we consume music. And I think there's sometimes this idea of like, I don't, how much do I need to do? How should we release it?
00:14:57
Speaker
there's some conversations around that. And it's one of the interesting things I think about, you know, Suite One of like, hey, we have these four songs, we basically got an EP, but it's a suite, which is interesting in itself itself, but the idea that we don't need to necessarily build a whole record. Although interestingly, that hasn't led them
00:15:18
Speaker
You could imagine the idea that that would lead him to be them dropping a single, two songs every year or something like that. That hasn't been the case, as opposed to someone like, interestingly, Dan Laius, Magistana has done that a lot over the last decade. It'd be like, I got two songs for you. Like, I don't have an album for you, but here's two songs to
00:15:37
Speaker
juice the algorithm, I guess. And I can be totally wrong about this. I see what you're saying. I bet you part of that is about the logistics of recording and things like that. If you're going to get everyone together, you might as well get at least four songs out. Well, it's the best thing of being
00:16:00
Speaker
this band, a seven piece band as opposed to like a solo artist or someone who, you know, like Dan Laius where Augustin is a band, but Augustin is really Dan Laius at this point. It's less like, hey, I can call someone up and say, we're going to do a session in two weeks. The band doesn't seem to operate like that. So maybe Adam, maybe they, maybe they had the idea at some point, oh, maybe we'll do two songs a year, but that doesn't seem like it fits.
00:16:24
Speaker
the way they work, which is part of the process. It's got to fit the nature of the band a little bit. Yeah, that's true. One other thing you said that just made me laugh, and for my own personal thing, because it was something I was talking to a friend this week who is training or went to some, I don't know, he's really high in the Buddhist monk ranking. He went to some five week, and that's where we're catching up, because he didn't have his phone access while he was going through training. And we were talking about, anyway,
00:16:54
Speaker
middle-aged and older and dealing with sometimes the difficult people and stuff. And I say this because Adam had this kind of, well, he's 60, right? I think he's 60 or about 60. And then he said, or in August he'll be 60, I think. Or was it last year? Anyway, he said, you know, we get an age, people are dying, make sure you reach out to people if you want to say hi.
00:17:23
Speaker
do as much as you can because it gets difficult when you get older. And then the host said something like, oh, and maybe you don't want to hold on to grudges.
Aging Positively and Holding Grudges
00:17:31
Speaker
And Adam's like, oh, no, I'm holding on to those grudges.
00:17:34
Speaker
And I was like, I was kind of saying that to somebody this week when I was having exactly Adam's perspective, trying to be positive, trying to do this, but maybe some of the grudges I'll still hold. Yeah. So that was kind of funny. Last thing, just about that, just because I've had I've seen people talk about it on social media or sorry, ask about it in social media. And I think I even got a couple emails about it.
00:17:54
Speaker
will he return and do Underwater Sunshine podcast? He said yes. Now I didn't really listen to that very much. Maybe now that I host Accounting Crows podcast, I'll have to listen to it more. I think I listened to maybe 10 episodes of the, I think he did about 70 or 80 or 90 or something like that. Well, that's not really Accounting Crows podcast. No, it's not. There's a couple of pieces that are Accounting Crows focused, but it's not Accounting Crows. It's a music podcast that happens to be hosted by Adam Durk. That's right.
00:18:21
Speaker
But i'd be happy to have it back i'm always interested in hearing what new music adam wants to recommend hearing him talk about old songs. One of my most recommended podcasts from that run if you haven't gone back and listen to all of them which one could do that if you wanted to or not. There's one about backing vocals.
00:18:42
Speaker
It's just about backing vocals. And it's fantastic. I heard that one too, yeah. That's one of the ones I heard. In fact, that's one of the ones I'm like, oh, I want to go back and re-listen to that. And at some point in the future, Chris, we'll tease the audience. It might be a year from now. But I definitely, I already took some notes about it. We'll be doing a show at some point of songs where Adam does the backing vocals. Yes, we should. That was definitely on my list. Yeah, because those are, he's a really good backing
Upcoming Tour Announcement
00:19:08
Speaker
singer.
00:19:09
Speaker
Really great back in Singer 2. Absolutely. So let's hear some other things maybe we'll get to today, maybe not. But I do, one thing we do have to talk about more formally, at least for a little bit, is that they are going on tour very soon. Yeah, and you and I both have tickets to shows now. If this had happened, if we talked about this a couple weeks ago,
00:19:29
Speaker
Both you and I, I think we're holding out. And then both you and I got kind of lucky or we just live in the right places.
Tour Logistics and Planning
00:19:38
Speaker
But maybe we chose correctly, you could say, not lucky. We meet our own luck by living where we do. Because as people have said, the main thrust of this tour, there'll be opening for Santana in
00:19:52
Speaker
arenas and sheds across the country. Yes. But they are doing some solo headlining dates. One in Central Park near me and one out west near you at the at a fairgrounds, it seems like. I think so. Yeah, I think total. I think they're only doing about six or six or eight, something like that of them leading the show. And the one in Orange County, which I'm going to, which is really cool to the wet sprocket, who I used to love in the 90s is the opening band.
00:20:21
Speaker
And I understand that most kind of fans that would listen to this podcast that, you know, either love the crows or somewhat obsessed with them would want them to be the headline. So I understand that, but I also understand that, yeah, that we were talking before, this was probably the best opportunity for them. They're gonna play in some arenas. They're not gonna be playing in many arenas of 20,000 or whatever normally in the US if they were the headline.
00:20:50
Speaker
Yeah, I think again, I think the natural complaint is, look, you're a Counting Crows fan, you want to see the longest Counting Crows show possible. So I think it's always a little awkward when you find out the band is going on a tour where they're going to open up just because we're paying a ticket.
00:21:04
Speaker
And we don't get to pay less because we're going to see the opener and only getting an hour or 80 minutes or whatever it ends up being. I mean, that's part of the open question, too, is we actually don't know at this point how long they might play a full set. We're not sure. It might be 10 songs. Yeah, they could play close to a full set.
Touring with Santana
00:21:21
Speaker
They could play something. It's really truncated. We don't know.
00:21:25
Speaker
You know, I'm, I enjoy Santana. I saw the guy 15 years ago with the garden and gave me a ticket. It's an enjoyable show. Um, but it may not be for everyone. I know Adam as a Bay Area guy is a big, he's taught. And actually one thing he talked about on that lip service interview was.
00:21:41
Speaker
a little bit about that, you know, they went out with Santana a long time ago. I think he said 15 years ago, something like that. I think it's more like 20. I think it's like 0.2 or 0.3 or something like that. And in Europe, was it Europe, he said? Europe, he said Europe. But yeah, and basically they had great and he they went out and played Adam Sang with them a bunch. And so it sounds like for the band, kind of a fun tour. And we assume
00:22:04
Speaker
You know, they got a good offer and this is how they feed their families. So I'm not, no complaints there. I never make an, make an argument there. It is what it is. Um, but that was, I think you and I were both kind of holding out to figure out what we were going to do with, with tickets. Cause they're. Yeah. And maybe in some cases more expensive because, yeah, I mean, it's intent is kind of, you know, it was a big headliner. So you've got more expensive tickets for a shorter set. And I think people were trying to figure out.
00:22:29
Speaker
Again, I think for fans that are like, I want to be in the front row. That's what I like doing to pay more to, again, for a show that's going to be less crows. It's just, it's just a weird thing sometimes. So we got a little bit lucky again. We're both, we're both getting, um, headlining shows. You got towed the wet sprocket. It looks like, I don't think this had been officially announced, but one of the other shows around New York, they, they listed ahead an opener. Um,
00:22:55
Speaker
It looks like it's going to be James Maddock, who's a local New York singer-songwriter, but with IMI. IMI frequently plays with James Maddock. So it sounds like we're getting a huge dose of IMI all night. That's exciting and always kind of fun to get an interesting opener. And I always love this. I mean, we'll talk about one of my favorite venues tonight, the Hammerside Ballroom.
00:23:18
Speaker
love seeing shows at Central Park Summer Stage. It's just beautiful. It's like surrounded. You're in like you're in the middle of Central Park just kind of surrounded by trees and greenery. Like you're in this like
00:23:32
Speaker
sort of lush little place. It's like cocoon from the world. And it's kind of a beautiful place to see a show on a summer night. So I always get excited when I see a band is playing there because I'm like, Oh, that's a nice chance to go and hang out there. And I've seen the crows there.
00:23:50
Speaker
I think it's twice, maybe I'm forgetting one or two. I saw them do Good Morning America there a long time ago. Weird story there, I was going, my then girlfriend, now wife, was in a wedding, and I basically was gonna do this Good Morning America thing and then take a train down to meet her. And the bridesmaids got up early and they had it on. And Cindy's like, oh, look.
00:24:15
Speaker
There's my boyfriend. There he is. You'll meet him in a little while, but there he is on the front row doing cheering. And also one of the traveling circus and medicine shows was there in Central Park, which was a really awesome show. I think I actually had a gig for that show. I think I got like paid to like, or got free admission to like handout posters. I don't know how I stumbled on that gig, but I'm positive that's,
00:24:42
Speaker
the case. Weirdly, I went to that show with a person I'm with that I went to the Hammerstein show we're going to talk about tonight. And sometimes it's weird sometimes you go to enough shows that until you start thinking about them, you kind of some of these memories blend together. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And some are getting kind of old about today is 25 years. So I'm like, what do I remember? And I have a pretty good memory. But yeah, like that show that I mean, that that other Central Park show was 50 years ago now. And I mean, that's old. It's not that long ago. It's when they did the traveling circus and the traveling circus is
00:25:11
Speaker
15 years ago. Unbelievable. It's almost like we're getting old with the band. I know. Well, we are. We are. We're always changing, right? That's what Adam said.
00:25:25
Speaker
Yeah, it was seven shows. It looks like they're going to headline, so not many. I'm trying to get to so much, but there was a little asterisk by California, and it wasn't entirely clear, actually, when it was for sale, and it looked like it was different, but the presale was the same anyway. So I got decent tickets, but they weren't as great as they should have been. I like to be front front, but that's okay.
00:25:50
Speaker
But you're getting a full two hours of crows probably. Absolutely. And I like Toad, so it'll be fun. Let somebody else, I've been in the front before, let somebody else enjoy it. That is the thing as you do more shows is there are those who are like, I gotta be in the front. And sometimes I'm like, you know, I like being in the front, but also I don't need to fight. I don't know. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You gotta get the right spot though. You can't be around the talkers. It's a tricky thing. It's a tricky thing. You can't be too far back.
00:26:16
Speaker
Because in the end, it might be my enemy. As you said, some people in the front are annoying, too. You get the people that don't know them, but they're just rich. Or you get the obnoxious people that just want to push their way. So yeah. A lot of people in the front in New York shows that I know are wonderful people and are not like that at all. And they're all delightful people. They're not rich and annoying. So I want to be clear about that for any of you who are listening.
00:26:40
Speaker
The one thing I do want to say is that fans of the podcast, we always do like to hear from you. Again, you can always email us Sullivan Street PC at protonmail.com and that Sullivan Street all spelled out then PC for podcast.
00:26:56
Speaker
at protonmail.com. We do get all the emails. I might mention one or two email questions we have right now. The other thing is that most people that listen to us, they do so on Apple Podcasts. I haven't asked anybody to review, do so if you'd like, especially if it's positive.
00:27:17
Speaker
In Spotify, there's a place, and only a few of you, a smaller portion I should say, you Spotify, but there's a place that you can give feedback or questions to the
Fan Interactions and Email Questions
00:27:26
Speaker
podcaster. I do get those. It's weird because I can't respond to those the way that's set up. It's only a one-way feedback and it's not publicly posted either. But for example, I'll just give one now. We got one back when we had Jeff Harkness on. Somebody asked, and maybe we weren't clear, and it said like,
00:27:48
Speaker
Oh, Jeff, you said something about that that that recovering the satellites was originally supposed to be kind of sweets or quarters. Like what were like you mentioned, Jeff, that one of them was the Courtney Cox suite. What were the other suites? And and I did ask Jeff about this to add some clarification. And he said it's basically if you look in the back of the CD, you'll see that
00:28:14
Speaker
And I'm looking for a 9-11, 12-13, 14 songs, you'll see that there is a separation mark after the fourth song, after the seventh song, after the tenth song. And so those are the four quote-unquote
00:28:29
Speaker
roughly group together songs and I don't really see now the last four is where monkey mercury long becember and walk away so those might be the courtney cox songs I guess that's yeah well that's that's definitely the that's definitely the courtney cox we give that sweet and
00:28:44
Speaker
And the first one seems to be all about sleeping, at least Angels of the Silences, Daylight Fading, and I'm Not Sleeping, have some sleep theme. Even Catapult mentions sleeping a little bit, right? I think so. So anyway, I didn't really think about it too much about how they, but roughly, I guess that's how we lump them together for those things. Well, and interestingly, Good Night Elizabeth and Children in Bloom are the two oldest songs. Those are from 94. Okay.
00:29:09
Speaker
Maybe that has something well, and those are both maybe about if you group that with have its group with have you seen me lately? That could kind of be about the the experience of getting famous essentially, right? If good night Elizabeth and certainly good night Elizabeth is is very much about that experience the being on tour and what that means And then you got Miller's Angels and other horse streamers and Recovering the satellites
00:29:35
Speaker
And I honestly don't know what those three, how those, I have to think about it. And maybe, or maybe they said they're the miscellaneous song. So I guess you could say those are all horror stream. There's a hard one in there. Um, cause I guess you could connect satellites and Miller's angels about a general theme about connection and
00:29:57
Speaker
recovering a sense of yourself, right? Miller's angels or the past or something. Yeah. Another horse that's an old song, right? Or it references an old song. So it references Marjorie dreams of horses. Right. But is it? I think that is a newer song at that point. Yeah. I mean, it's about dreaming.
00:30:16
Speaker
Well, in Miller's Angels, someone is sort of hallucinating at that point. They haven't gone outside yesterday, and they're losing touch with reality, so maybe another Horse Dreamers Blues fits in that way. Yeah, that could be. Southern Rough, again, it didn't get finished, but those were the categories, and I never knew that. It's one of those things where you stare at it a hundred of times when it came out, and I'm like, gosh, I never really
00:30:40
Speaker
saw that they were why were they separated in quarters except you know that then and so that's the that's the answer um away one random piece of note that i want to talk about a new a new release that we didn't even talk about uh chris i don't know if you know about this that adam did a release i think you can see it on youtube if you want but do you know that he sang this song for howard stern do you know i'm talking about no
00:31:05
Speaker
And I don't listen to Howard anymore.
Humorous Cover for Howard Stern
00:31:08
Speaker
But he had I guess he did a joking thing that he wanted to do a song called Metamucil Man. And they he actually I think Howard sang it with his group. I don't know. Again, I haven't listened in for years, a decade or so. But but then Adam covered the song. It's basically about going to the toilet. And but he actually sings it like
00:31:30
Speaker
Earnestly, so it is hilarious and good singing. So look it up.
Hammerstein Ballroom's Historical Significance
00:31:36
Speaker
I forget how long the song is, but it is pretty funny that he's the one. What does that? I look forward to it. This is. So yeah, three minute. It's a very slow song, almost like a Johnny Cash. So it's a three minute cover, so it's not like a 30 second thing.
00:31:53
Speaker
Um, so anyway, so look at that. Uh, so the last, uh, but then we'll, cause this will be a nice segue into, um, our, uh, when we talk about Hammerstein, uh, Hammerstein, we'll find out somebody will write us. Someone will correct us. Someone will correct us. Write us and let us know what, which one is correct. Right. I guess I could.
00:32:15
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, who's right and who's wrong? Unless you actually, please, if you own or run the Hammerstein Ballroom, please write to us. And for all of us, that is correct.
00:32:30
Speaker
We interviewed David Lowry last episode, which was a lot of fun. After the interview, by the way, I went out to the last of the great Pioneer Town Bars, which is a real bar in Pioneer Town near Joshua Tree, went in, you know, had a drink there. So I say that because he actually, after the interview, when we said thank you, had a question for, or maybe he said it during the interview, but he was really curious about it.
00:32:58
Speaker
He said, I love this album. Do they still play all of these songs in concert? And our short answer was yes, except for Amy Hit the Atmosphere, which we will talk about in the concert thing coming up. But we actually did look and we have a formal answer and we let David know that almost the entire album, they do still play. In fact, all the songs but three, they played
00:33:25
Speaker
Last year, they played Hanging Around, Colorblind, Mrs. Potter, Satan Robinson, Wish I Was a Girl, High Life, Four Days in Speedway, all in the 2023 tour. And that's pretty good for a third album that didn't have a lot of singles. So that leaves the following songs.
00:33:40
Speaker
One of them, which used to be a concert staple, and breaks my heart, but they have not played in a long time, David's, and actually Matt Mally's, both of their, I think, favorite song from the album, All My Friends, last played 14 years ago, we found out. So,
00:33:55
Speaker
We hope that that gets into the rotation soon. Yeah. I could not believe it had been that long with that song. And I think my brain slightly elides that song with High Life. And so I was like, oh, they play that song once in a while. And it turns out.
00:34:11
Speaker
No, it turns out it's been a very long time since I've seen them play. Amy Hit The Atmosphere was last played 20 years ago, which we'll mention again soon. And surprisingly, even more recently than all my friends, but it has been a while, they played kid things last 11 years ago. So there you go. And we will be talking about more this desert life because we will be reviewing the album soon, probably in, you know, two or three
00:34:40
Speaker
um episodes so uh should we it's the next one in the order we're just gonna keep
00:34:48
Speaker
going with the officially released records as we go. So let's do that. I have other things we can mention, but we've got to keep some stuff on the list for next time. So let's go into Hammerstein, Hammerstein, and Chris had the great idea. Now for me, one of the reasons, and I'll just mention this, one of the reasons this came up was because we're going to talk about my first show, which I already referenced a few times, even our first
Memorable Hammerstein Performances
00:35:11
Speaker
episode. But Chris had the idea of let's talk about this venue a bit. So Chris, want to talk about that? Sure.
00:35:18
Speaker
You know, it's interesting that it kind of works out nicely for us. Your first show was there. My second show was there. But it is kind of, I think, a relatively kind of famous venue for the Crows, right? It's where Live at the Ten Spot and thus the second electric disc of Across a Wire was recorded. And it's been a venue they returned to. They did several shows there on the Desert Life Tour, which you saw the first of that run.
00:35:46
Speaker
They did several shows on the Hard Candy Tour, which has one of my favorite versions of Goodnight Elizabeth, which we'll talk about. They did this, what turned out to be a pretty historic show in 2004, that was my all time second, you know, Crow show, which was Matt Malley's last show with the band, which is an interesting story. And re-listening to it the other day, we have some,
00:36:11
Speaker
interesting notes on that one relative to some of the conversations we've had about that. But then they've kept playing there on a pretty regular basis, particularly when you think about it for a band that's done a lot of outdoor type tours where they haven't hit those types of venues.
00:36:28
Speaker
They did that venue in 2009 as part of the traveling circus and medicine show, great show with Augustana, Michael Franti and Spearhead. I think that's the first one of those shows that I saw. That one was kind of, it's a hard show, hard to rank those shows. I think I'm fond of that one in part because the first time you see it, you're like, this is incredible. That tour I think was pretty amazing. But it was one of those things that after you saw it for the first time, you kind of knew what was happening.
00:36:56
Speaker
And so it lost a little bit of the magic from the first time we were like, I have no idea what's going on. And now this is supposed to work. But then they played there multiple times again in 2012, in 2013.
00:37:12
Speaker
Another one, I actually missed the 2012 show, but 2013 was a great show there as well. I actually sent that one, interestingly, sent that one to Chris Porterfield, or at least a song from it, because we were talking about the band, the Blue Nile, which he and Adam are big fans of. And at that show, Adam used a portion of Stay, a Blue Nile song in the middle of Rain King.
00:37:38
Speaker
So great, great version of Rain King worth seeking out if you're a fan, especially if you're a fan of the Blue Nile, which if you're not, that is another good underwater sunshine episode to go check out because I think they're a really interesting band that I did not at all know the story of until I listened to that. And when I heard it, I was like, oh, I really love all of these songs. They're amazing.
00:38:00
Speaker
But then they've also, they've continued to play there. Most recently, they did two shows there on their first tour after COVID in 2021. Oh, I forgot about that. Which was kind of special. I saw one of those.
00:38:14
Speaker
just nice to be back in a room seeing Counting Crows again. So it's been a place they've returned to and sort of a historical, it's a great room. There's a great energy in there. If you've never been, it holds about 3,500 people for a concert. So a pretty good sized venue.
00:38:32
Speaker
with a big open floor and a couple of balconies that you can be sort of towards the back. And also I was in one of these for the show in 2021. There are these little
00:38:47
Speaker
sort of areas on the side, like these little boxes, essentially, that go up on the side that was in the lower box, which was kind of a cool place to see a show from. I hadn't seen one. I hadn't seen a concert there from that angle. And it was kind of a cool spot. I always assumed it was just VIP, but apparently they started and maybe it used to be and they started selling these tickets now. But I was like, ooh,
00:39:11
Speaker
That meant that. And I think I admit that was part of it. When I when I was able to purchase that ticket, I was like, I feel like that makes me a very important person for the evening, even though I made my way in for a reasonable price. Absolutely. Yeah. And as I told you beforehand, I've seen two shows there, the one we'll talk about, which was my first show in 1999. And then in that one, I was in the general admission below. You know, I want to say I was like,
00:39:40
Speaker
A third of the right. I don't know how far the general mission or is it all general mission at the bottom or is all general admissions all general mission.
00:39:48
Speaker
That's part of the thing, though. It's a big floor. It's definitely the kind of place where you do not want to be towards the front and have to go to the bathroom. Oh, right. Downside. Because it's going to be hard to get back to your friends. That's right. I could be wrong. I know I was on the left side. I want to say I was like halfway, halfway. I want to say right in the middle. I wasn't, you know, don't forget back then. I mean, this is when
00:40:12
Speaker
most of the fans of the band were in were like 18 to 25. So this is not the relaxed crowd like I don't care if I'm in the front. This is like you know, some frat boys pushing their way from people drunk showing up, you know, because I guess people now go drunk too, but
00:40:28
Speaker
People still get drunk. Although, I guess, again, it's been about a decade, but I did almost once get in a fight with someone at a show in Los Angeles. But we'll get there sometime. That's a really good show. We should listen to that at some point. But I can still remember that lady's face. She was very angry. And my then girlfriend, now wife, nearly got into a fight with her.
00:40:51
Speaker
The other show, I can't remember who bought tickets, me and my friend. That one, the 2002 show, but that one I was up in the upper level, which was still good. And partly because I like the Crows and it was a great set. But today we'll start. Should I talk about the 99 and then we'll go in sequential order? Yeah, I re-listened. I think the track list on the
00:41:15
Speaker
on the website might be a little wrong, or on the set list and their website is mostly okay, but I found two mistakes, I think, which was that it says that they played four days, but instead, I think at that slot, they played
'This Desert Life' Release Reflection
00:41:28
Speaker
Omaha, if I correctly. And then it says they played recovering the satellites, but instead they played around here, I think. So that's two mistakes. But even with those there, if you look at the stats, well, let me say again, and again, I apologize if
00:41:45
Speaker
You can go back to episode one, I mentioned some of this, but Desert Life was released five days, I think, before this or six days, six days before the concert. So as I said, I prepare it all week because on a road trip and listen to the whole thing. And guess what? They played.
00:42:01
Speaker
Seven of the ten songs I think or I forget how many songs are now in desert life, but they basically played most of them So about playing that record on that no would just come out What was your most looking forward to at that point? I you know what I don't think Yeah, I was kind of not that it was my favorite song right away, but I um I
00:42:24
Speaker
I was excited to see hanging around because I was proud. I was actually proud. I remember, this was so weird because I didn't mention this before, but I actually remember, maybe we'll talk about this in Desert Life, I happened to be home that day and watching
00:42:40
Speaker
whatever the MTV show with Carson Daly, that was like live. Total request live. Total request live. I was there when they were there. Sorry, I was watching it in my mom's home when they premiered. You were outside with the sign, next to the insane girls. Not at all. This is like pre-internet or pre where there is news about things. And that's where I remember I saw the premiere of hanging around on when they premiered it. And I was like, this is cool. I remember feeling a sense of pride that my,
00:43:09
Speaker
favorite band or one of my top five bands was still getting recognition and it was a big deal that they were premiering a video on MTV. Like I thought that was cool. And then, um, so I was kind of excited about seeing that live because obviously that would have been the first time I saw that live. And I remember liking the album, but I don't think at that state, I know my friend was already obsessed with colorblind because it does get your attention right away. And it is such a dark,
00:43:35
Speaker
melodic type of song. So I think those were the two. But it's funny, when I look at the set list and listen to it,
00:43:43
Speaker
the songs I remember more hearing live are the Actually Desert Life songs. So even though I didn't come in there thinking, oh, I gotta hear this, gotta hear this, I was just hoping to hear as many as possible.
First Concert Experience
00:43:53
Speaker
And I did have memories of them playing high life. I totally remember that. I remember it, Amy hit the atmosphere. I think, to be honest, that might've been one of the songs I really wanted to hear, Amy hit the atmosphere. And what brought you up, because you weren't living in New York at the time. But I was close by.
00:44:11
Speaker
I was in Delaware, I think, and near Philly, and we were just doing it. And I used to live in New York. So I was like, oh, we're going to road trip. And then it kind of fit the road trip weekend because I was going to come back on a Sunday. And I said, I'll take off Monday and crash at my friend's place in Queens. And then we'll go see the tour then. We just had lots of energy back then. And we said, it'd be great to see them in New York City.
00:44:34
Speaker
right after the album is released and the fans will be hardcore and all in general mission and it's generally true. The other memory about that show and I'll get in some of the songs is that I think I mentioned before that was the first concert I've been to other concerts but that was the first concert I definitely had quite a few
00:44:52
Speaker
beers before attending i think i went to some i think it just closed there's some irish bar i think there's a couple but near there um a rat near msg tempest bar i forget which one that one just i know that one just closed i think it was that one i think it was that one where we we got like maybe three drinks or four drinks there and then walked over to hit right that wouldn't have been too far a walk right oh
00:45:15
Speaker
couple blocks. In fact, I've been to the Tempest Bar many times before or after shows at the Hammerstein. My friends, I'm a big wrestling fan. There's wrestling shows at Hammerstein and we would have, I've had, I've had a lot of drinks at Tempest Bar, Eric.
Pre-concert Drinking Experiences
00:45:28
Speaker
Yeah. So it was either that one or another, but I do remember, and I remember that our other Crows fans there,
00:45:32
Speaker
And so, as I said, the only thing bad is, you know, in, you know, years that followed, maybe a decade later, a couple of concerts got ruined because I wanted to have too many cocktails before the show. But that's part of the thing, I think, of figuring out, like, what works for you at a show. I think it's an interesting kind of, like,
00:45:48
Speaker
I think anyone who is a little bit of a drinker has that journey of like, okay, what's the right amount? What's the right amount? And that was my friend. For different times too, you know. What was a big drinker. But one thing I remember partly because of that is that when we were, I forget we were at the side of the bar, but this comes up a little bit and that's why I'm glad that I re-listened because I was like, I thought Omaha was on the set list. And I say that because I do remember at the bar,
00:46:10
Speaker
that we talked to I guess there was like three girls and one was like quite quite good looking and she was like this tall college girl like I don't know I'm guessing it went to NYU or something but she was from Nebraska and she was
00:46:24
Speaker
like bragging about how much Omaha meant to people. She was either from Omaha or near there. And she was like, you don't know how much this song means to us from Omaha. And I just thought that was great. And I think I saw her after the show, because I don't know if they stood next to us or not. That I can't. Maybe, actually. And then when they played Omaha, of course, she was going nuts. And I remember just thinking, like, all you have to do is name check a city. And yes, they'll be, you know,
00:46:52
Speaker
I mean, Bruce Springsteen wrote a whole album called Nebraska. So I mean, Adam, one song's good, but the whole album, although I guess it's the whole state, if you're from Omaha, you'd prefer that to Nebraska, I guess. But she was also in that age that kind of grows anyway, right? So she was probably already a fan. And then I don't think she liked it because of that, but love that song even more. Plus, it's a great song. Yeah, I don't have too much.
00:47:21
Speaker
When I went back and listened, the Decepolis says that the encore, which might be right, is actually five songs. So that got my attention.
00:47:32
Speaker
And I think that might be right that they played 14 and then at a five song encore now I'd have to listen again just to make sure but I think so because song number 14 was hanging around so they might have ended there and then came back with Speedway. Have you seen with me lately, which was kind of a mid tempo. Have you seen me lately, right? It wasn't a super rocking and it wasn't the acoustic version. Yeah, it's that we they had gone but they had like found this middle ground seem I think with Mr. Jones in that period where they kind of found
00:48:00
Speaker
It wasn't quite the storytellers acoustic version, but it wasn't quite the original version. It was this middle ground, which is, again, something I sort of miss them doing now is I kind of like that you're like, oh, I like the 1999 version of have you seen me lately kind of thing.
00:48:19
Speaker
which I feel like I wish there was still a little bit more. Even Mr. Jones, Mr. Jones, I feel like always morphed and changed over the years. And you can kind of hear, if you just listen to a Mr. Jones from like, you just jump ahead two years, it'll sound different. Like they'll go back to an acoustic thing, but it won't quite sound like the storyteller's thing, or they'd play it up tempo, but it wouldn't sound like the original, it would have, something would have happened to it.
00:48:45
Speaker
It's funny listening back is one memory that came back because remember this is my first show and at this point I mean, I was always
Concert Setlist and Performances
00:48:51
Speaker
a big fan. I just didn't have either the money or the car or whatever And even then it came back again, which is that you know at that point You don't even know if you're ever gonna see them again, right? So I had three albums and I wanted to hear them play all the songs live from the new album that I just spent a week preparing for like I was preparing for my PhD, you know prelims or something like that, but
00:49:14
Speaker
you also kind of wanted to hear as many as the other songs from the other albums as possible since you've never seen any of them live. And I remember that I was not annoyed, I mean I liked every song, but a little bit of me was like, because I think I've said before that compared to other people, maybe around here I don't love as much, especially back then they were playing a longer version, and Mercury, which I know you like, they played a longer version of that too. And I remember I liked both, but I thought
00:49:39
Speaker
She's that's like kind of a total of 20 minutes They could have played five other songs that I hadn't heard before ever since I've never been to a concert Did you did you like that mercury version? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was good and I love the love and addiction thing I just think is such a it's a fun thing I don't know I like it and I'd like to hear it more now right now that I've seen so many but I'm with you I do get the idea of and it's an interesting
00:50:06
Speaker
thing with the band, right, of seeing more versus seeing this like special version. And I get it, like the first time you're like, well, I really just want to see them.
Realizing the Live Experience
00:50:16
Speaker
I want to see them play this, you know, especially I think I feel like now it's so easy to go on and get a sense of what a band's set list is like and what a song sounds like now if you just want to go, you know, on YouTube. But then it was hard, right? Like it wasn't something
00:50:34
Speaker
You know, that you had any sense of, right? You hadn't heard them play the long Mercury. Right. I didn't know anything about the bootlegs that were around at that point, but you weren't.
00:50:43
Speaker
trading them, you know. So. Yeah, that's exactly right. And my only sense of their live, of them playing live was actually listening to the live from the 10 spot. So I really. From the same place. I guess this question, you know, was that like a big fit?
First NYC Concert Excitement
00:50:58
Speaker
Was it, was it a little bit of a thing for you of like walking into the Hammerstein given that you knew? Yeah. Plus it's New York City, right? And I'm not from New York City. So anything you ever do in New York City, when you're not from New York City, you're like, I'm at the big time now. This is it.
00:51:11
Speaker
I've made it to New York City, right? That's kind of what you think. Well, it's one of the things about the Hammerstein that gives it that vibe is that you're like, you're three blocks from Madison Square Garden. You're in the heart of every, it's like a, there's a strong like New York energy walking into the Hammerstein ballroom. It's not like, oh, I'm happy to be in New York and it's, I'm uptown or I'm downtown and it's not really that. It's like, no, it feels like how you would stereotype like walking into a show in New York.
00:51:39
Speaker
Yeah, no, I think that. And then I felt like cooler because I didn't have to get a hotel. I had a friend in Queens, right? I am a real, you know, either New Yorker or was a New Yorker or whatever. So yeah, it's funny, though. So I like I just said, I my memory was more. And it's interesting, by the way, about four days, because that just I'm pretty sure now four days
00:52:01
Speaker
is might make my white whale list. Cause I thought that this might've been the show that I had seen it, but I think that was a typo. So I think I've never seen it. And I really liked that song. But so, so my memory is actually more of the desert life song. So I do not remember them kicking off the song, kicking off the show with murder of one. I mean that that's pretty wild that that was the kickoff song, right? Cause we think of that more as a, as a, as a, as a showstopper near the end.
00:52:28
Speaker
and a closer. So, boy, talk about getting the fans excited early. Now, and a little bit, I'm like, oh, I do kind of remember jumping up and down the first song. And I think that's why, because it was Murder of One. And I didn't remember them ending with Walkaways because, I don't know, part of me was like, oh, I didn't see that. Yeah, I didn't see them end with that very much, but they did on my first show.
00:52:54
Speaker
So, um, maybe you had some drinks at that point. Long December. And it is funny. I, I can't tell for sure, but the crowd obviously is very energetic. Like this is in the, in the height of their popularity and maybe not the height, but this is still during those glory days that, um,
00:53:11
Speaker
It sounds like the crowd was singing back some of the lyrics to Walkaways, which partly they just finished Long December, right? That was before. So that's how it is on the track listing, right? So people, anybody that had the album and they liked Long December, they're going to know Walkaways, right? Because it plays right after. Back then, you'd actually have to get up and manually eject the CD if you didn't want to hear the next track. And it's only what, a 90 second song anyway.
00:53:35
Speaker
So anyway, yeah, so you had great memories and I do appreciate, and as we'll get into your set list,
00:53:46
Speaker
just like I said, that they weren't shy about playing Desert Life in your set list, boy, were they perfect in balancing their track list. Yeah, although I can part of it, I think is the timing, right? So the show, we're going to talk about the second one, November 16, 2004. So this is
00:54:08
Speaker
post hard candy tour post even a year by films about ghosts and essentially they are not quite touring but this this show is basically built on accidentally in love kind of an interesting thing the show was both a benefit for
00:54:25
Speaker
Toys for Teens, not Toys for Tots, Toys for Teens.
Fan Club Ticket Access
00:54:28
Speaker
And also though, was webcasted as part of a promotion with the release of the DVD of Shrek 2.
00:54:39
Speaker
I know, it's interesting, again, the things we remember and the things that we don't, I remember that getting tickets to this somehow involved the fact that I was in the fan club at the time, Cloud Cuckoo Land. I can't remember if they were free and I won a contest or if I just had the opportunity to purchase them because I was in the fan club. I don't recall. I want to say I got them for free because I remember
00:55:04
Speaker
struggling a little bit with who to take. So and for such seeds for me, I'm a senior in college at this point in suburban Philadelphia. And unsurprisingly, for a small liberal arts college in the early 2000s, I knew a lot of Counting Crows fans. This was not a passion of mine that was unshared by people. And so I did end up going with
00:55:29
Speaker
a girl that I ended up, we had not dated yet, but we ended up dating. And I remember, I think feeling a little bit guilty because I was like, I got other friends I could take and I wasn't sure. And I feel like it was, but I feel like it was a free ticket. It was like, who's my plus one going to be?
00:55:45
Speaker
And I picked her. And then we ended up, we did it for a little bit. Then we were friends in New York. And she ended up coming with me to a show in 2009. She was a very big Crows fan. So she was not someone I was just taking. She really enjoyed the show and was very excited to see them. And so we, first of all, just also took the train, took an Amtrak from Philly up to New York. And I will say, just by the way, turned right around and beat.
00:56:15
Speaker
didn't didn't have a place I guess I could have stayed with my parents I could have but we were like no no we got to get back for class cuz I think this was like a Thursday I'd be like like a class back class Friday morning so we literally like went straight back to Penn Station and grabbed a an Amtrak back to back to
00:56:32
Speaker
And so, yeah, it's interesting. But to that point, though, about the set list, I think the set list is an interesting and very balanced one because they're not promoting a record other than, yeah, they got to play accidentally in love if this is literally for Shrek 2. Right. Other than that, this was pretty much like just mixing it up, right? We're going to play some hard candy. Yeah, it looks like it was four songs from August and then three from hard candy, three from recovering and three from Desert Life. Yeah.
00:57:01
Speaker
And then it's in a cover or two covers. And then and then and then the accidentally loves. Although at that point they had gotten into the songs they were doing, I think, from this desert life at that point were kind of a standard, right? They were playing these otters. They're playing hanging around. They're playing St. Robinson. And colorblind. Colorblind. Yes.
00:57:27
Speaker
Yeah, so a little bit less. I think this was a time period for their shows where the variety was not wild. They were playing different sets every night, but if you look back at the 2004 set lists, they're not varying a dramatic amount. They're different, but they're not crazy different. A couple of memories. First, love that they opened with Rain King.
00:57:50
Speaker
one of my all-time favorite songs. And just to get that as the opener, it's always nice to get that the way. I actually really, this is high on my favorite versions of Rain King. So first, the alt is...
00:58:03
Speaker
someone to watch over me, which I think is a really beautiful thing that really fits the nature of the song. The lyrics track, the feeling of need and what the singer of the rest of the song is looking for really to me connects to
00:58:23
Speaker
Um, those lyrics, those Gershwin lyrics for someone to watch over. I, in fact, designed a t-shirt at some point with those websites where you could just kind of get one, but that had the lyrics to that, like a rain King sort of print and kind of like a collegiate font on the front and the lyrics of that on the back. Um, and also a bit that he, I don't think he did anywhere else.
00:58:43
Speaker
I don't think I've seen on any other points where he sings, she will say yes and yes and yes and no, which is also very poignant because I think that is how I felt about the person I was with at that point. So really, really hitting me in the feels and in the direct feelings at that point.
00:59:01
Speaker
And then straight into Mrs. Potter's, which is also one of my other favorite songs. So the idea of just Rain King, Mrs. Potter's is great, even though I always love that they, when they open with those two songs, because it's like 17 minutes. They're 17 minutes deep in two songs. You know, like,
00:59:19
Speaker
i thought it was quite a guy don't know what their best version is but i i i thought it was quite a good version of mrs potter's um it was like kind of almost lighter feeling than even it almost had more that david feel you know david said he wanted like it you know but then the last verse really rocked like they really brought it for that last you know fourth verse
00:59:39
Speaker
Anyway, that got my attention. No, I'm with you. And definitely, look, I think the whole night has kind of a unique energy. They're clearly amongst, in part because this is not like a show as part of a tour. It seems like a lot of Adam's friends are there. Adam says at some point, yeah, I've had some drinks tonight, which I recall too, like he seemed... Right.
01:00:00
Speaker
My friend was a singer and she was like, well, it's kind of him. He's hitting these notes and he's definitely drunk. He's very good at this. Um, like, yeah, I figured that, but yeah, he's definitely, he says at this, at some point towards the end, like I'm going to go have a drink. Well, more drinks. Um,
01:00:18
Speaker
but definitely an interesting, it's a very loose vibe of the show. Can I just interject one thing? One thing that, I should do this more off our podcast, but when you said about hitting those notes and stuff, I was thinking actually recently when we've been listening to Adam on a lot of these podcasts, and he talks about both
Natural Talent vs. Training in Singing
01:00:34
Speaker
his natural ability and his love of English and everything and his work ethic about how he became a great songwriter, right? It was like a combination of everything.
01:00:46
Speaker
I don't hear him talk much about how he felt his singing, how much of that was natural ability versus hard work and training. I just haven't heard because that
01:00:58
Speaker
I mean, let's just say me. I mean, I don't know. I think I have kind of a radio voice, and some of that I know you could train, but some of it you have. And I think I could be a writer. I could not be, at least I don't think I could ever be a singer, because I don't think I have that special thing. So I've always been curious about that with Adam. Anyway, when you said that he's so talented, he could even do it after those drinks and hit those high notes. Yeah, so anyway. No, and it's interesting. It'd be interesting to hear about that, too, because
01:01:23
Speaker
I feel like with a lot of singers, you'll hear like they were kind of naturals and then at some point they took their work on it up a level. Yes. You know, I wonder when that was for him. Yeah. And I've never been talking about like singing to like, I think it was like girls when he was junior high at
01:01:40
Speaker
at some religious thing. I don't remember. But there's something where he didn't mention that he did some singing. But but yeah, I'm guessing that's the answer. But I just haven't heard enough because it's not just that you said he's a lead singer. He's really talented, especially back then at hitting some of those high notes. And yeah, so yeah, no. And again, great. Again, to your point, though, a lot of balance and fun to set. And it begins was not a super regular song at that point. Although
01:02:05
Speaker
maybe hurt your heart because he blows the lyrics to it. But I did say actually this they're playing the version that we know now and I actually thought it was a almost I actually wrote here except for that mess up. I thought it was almost a near perfect version of that one that we've grown the non album version. Let's just say
01:02:24
Speaker
Yeah. Um, there's a lot of Adam Banter in the show too. He was, again, he was loose. He, he talks about politics. Remember this is like about two weeks, maybe less than after Bush versus, um, Kerry. Yes. He talks about like, you know, what is important in
01:02:41
Speaker
a democracy is, even after a contentious election, that we can all accept victory and defeat, which it seems so quaint 20 years in the past. Oh, of course. It's very interesting. No, I just thought about this because of the same thing. And obviously, for those that don't know, he used to really push vote registration. And he said, I have my political opinions, but I don't even care what party you vote for. I just want you active. So even
01:03:08
Speaker
Here he actually admitted, although I guess it was already known, but yes, I wanted Kerry to win, but it's okay. The democracy specifically, he says, let's remember this is Matt's last show. He's like, remember, we can't all be winners. That's a winner over there. Matt's a winner. I was like, whoa, that's a, he's like pointing at him. Um,
01:03:29
Speaker
The he talks about the process of being nominated for an Oscar that apparently you need to apply to be nominated for an Academy Award. And he needed to do that. There's a very funny banter about that.
Oscar Nomination Process
01:03:39
Speaker
By the way, that that's consistent, by the way, even in the in the his kind of banter about it is consistent with the podcast we just listened to lip service, where he basically says,
01:03:49
Speaker
he doesn't like award shows, he never wanted to. If he did, he would just go to the Oscar. It is funny, that was 20 years ago, almost to the date, and what he says now about award shows is exactly what he said back then in concert. That was great. I'm still laughing at the Matt thing, by the way, because again, we didn't ask Matt, but there is part of me, if I had a guess, Matt is not like,
01:04:15
Speaker
I actually think my total guess is he's not a diehard Republican. He just was really into Bush at that point, particularly because of September 11th and some of these things. And I just laugh, though, that going back, especially thinking now and how it might have caused a rift. And it's really interesting.
01:04:32
Speaker
Yeah. There's a really interesting version of Goodnight Elizabeth in this. And so I'll make a note here about what you can't see on the bootleg. So it's a really interesting alt in the middle. Adam talks about charity for a solid couple minutes, goes into telling verbally the story about his first girlfriend or his girlfriend when they went on tour, leaving him thinking he was cheating.
01:04:56
Speaker
Um, and then said, you know, basically afterwards, I kind of was, you know, she thought I was cheating and then, then she broke up with me. And then I was kind of, I believe the quote is, uh, I was a tramp. Um, and then quote, how many of you did I sleep with? Be honest with me. Um, but there's also, and remember, this is, this was, I thought one of the weird things, like a way, you know, he, he was, maybe you'd been drinking. So again, there's a webcast for this that you could, you got a thing for if you purchased the DVD for Shrek two. So presumably.
01:05:27
Speaker
Children, right? Child heavy group? A, he's telling the story. But then when he sings, I'll miss you when I'm slipping in between, he kind of gyrates.
01:05:40
Speaker
You know, I've seen that other times, but it was particularly weird in a show that was dedicated to a song for a children's movie. It was a moment. It was a moment. On the other side though, the webcast back then were so grainy and you couldn't see anything that maybe you can find. I think you can find, I think you can still find some of that webcast on YouTube and it's pretty, it's pretty grainy. Um, yeah, it's not great. Um,
01:06:09
Speaker
I love, there's a great intro to Long December, if you haven't heard that. They have played a long kind of piano intro to that. Yeah, really good show. I remember, again, my friend really was into Sullivan Street, so she was very excited they played that.
Podcast's Impact on Music Appreciation
01:06:24
Speaker
Just because we brought it up a couple of times and obviously the podcast is, it's so funny because of the podcast that Sullivan Street jumped up like 20 spots as soon as I got involved with Sullivan Street. Now it's moved up in my own personal ranking. But I know you like it as an intro song and I do appreciate it then, but I actually like it as a little more as the first from the encore, which they do sometimes.
01:06:49
Speaker
Yeah. That's, that's where I like it placed. No, I think it works there too. It definitely, it definitely works there too. I think particularly again, you know, you know, my feeling about the runaway. Yeah. I really love those early, like those 94 where they encore with that. And it's just like this, like devastating end to this like sad hour and a half of views and it's beautiful. Um, but yeah, I think that's always like when an encore. Oh, sorry. No, this is going to be because I, my apartment's consultant's here, but I always like when an encore
01:07:19
Speaker
Of course, an encore usually has like one song that they didn't play yet. Oh, I know they're gonna play long December, but they didn't play it yet. I hope they played the encore. And I also love when an encore from an act has more of a deep cut. Like, these are for the fans. And that's where I feel Sullivan Street fits in for the Crows, because it was never a single. You have to own that album to know Sullivan Street. Yeah, and they do that. I think they used it as part of the encore in one of the shows last summer. Yes, I think so. When they played two nights in a row, it sat in, like, Woodinville.
01:07:49
Speaker
They used it one of those nights and I thought it was great. The other thing, I was always disappointed. So I was initially disappointed and then the internet solved. So there's a very, very good, the version of the show that circulates is a soundboard recording. So it's one of the best tapes you can listen to because it sounds pristine. It's beautiful. So
01:08:14
Speaker
Apparently what happened is that they had decided to, I guess, test out the technology in terms of like doing an instant live recording and they handed out CDs on the sidewalk. But I think because I was sprinting to a train, I missed that. And the next morning when I found out that I could have had a CD with a sound board recording for free, they were just giving them out. Cause I think they were testing it out. I was heart. I was devastated. Uh,
01:08:40
Speaker
You've met me, Eric, you know how much I like tapes and I was ready, ready at this point. The idea that I could have had one of those, I was almost in tears, but then high speed internet was getting better at this point. I had a CD burner and within the week I had.
01:08:56
Speaker
a copy that didn't have whatever was official, but I had the exact same thing and it was okay. And I've listened to the tape many times since then. And I have survived not getting, although you can
Accessing Rare Music via the Internet
01:09:09
Speaker
hear it in my voice. I'm still a little salty. I'm still a little salty that I didn't.
01:09:13
Speaker
Well, my story, my story with that or similar was that because I was on the internet pretty early. A lot of my friends were in computer science majors and they were letting me know when internet 1.0 was there. They're like, look at this, look at this. I remember like when ESPN launched and all that kind of stuff. But I went to the cruise website pretty regularly and for some reason I didn't go for a couple of weeks or I didn't have money or something and I missed the release of
01:09:41
Speaker
can I get the by the time I get the Woodstock? Oh, and I thought I'll never get that it was a limited pressing. And I was like, I'll never get this. So not only did the internet solve that later, but one of my friends actually had that which I had no idea and mailed me the hard copy.
01:09:59
Speaker
20 years later, so I did end up getting it from a friend who is not as into crows as he used to be. So yeah, well that's and that's actually question. Well, we'll take this up, but we gotta talk. Should we do? We have to do an episode on by the time we get to Woodstock course and then they had the other one face to face the promised land. So maybe we'll do them both in one day together. Yeah.
01:10:17
Speaker
No, absolutely. I had that on the list of one thing that you didn't. So only one thing I didn't mention, two things I didn't mention about my show, and we can bring up to you. One difference, of course, besides the five years is I believe there was no Emmy on my tour. And it was on your tour because I even listen.
Band Member Photo Mystery
01:10:37
Speaker
Yeah, so even though he was in the band for this desert, or at least he was in the photo of Desert Life, I forget, he's not an official member there, right? I think that may have been right before he joined them on tour. Yeah, exactly. During the TDL tour, he joins them for sure, but I don't recall the exact date on that one, yeah.
01:11:01
Speaker
Yeah.
Concert Endings and Song Choices
01:11:02
Speaker
And then I forget that on this desert life, if he was an official man, I know he's in the photo, but I almost think he wasn't an official member when they released the CD. I got to look at that again. Um, and the other thing that caught my attention, I figured what it wasn't with yours, or maybe they didn't have it, but, um, you know, now they always end with California dreaming, but on mine, I saw it was not, I think it was a Tom Petty song that I couldn't figure out. I'd have that as Google or something. Well, they came out to magical mystery tour.
01:11:27
Speaker
That okay and i remember coming out yes without song but i thought they always did california dreaming cuz my mind they always did and i was like no they didn't always obviously sell at the end of the show anyway okay did you have anything else that we've we've gotten you know basically covered most of the things we wanted to cover anything else about the venue or any other news
01:11:49
Speaker
Well, I'll just say, again, I will just highly recommend Hammerstein 2004.
Hammerstein 2004 Tape Recommendation
01:11:53
Speaker
That's a tape that's really spectacular. I think that's one of the... Not just because I was there, it's a pretty good tape to check out from that era of the band. I think they sound... Again, just given the sound quality and the performance level, it's an interesting night with pristine sound quality and a really good performance.
01:12:15
Speaker
worth checking out if you haven't go, you know, hit crows town and grab that one.
Transition to Regular Tours
01:12:20
Speaker
Yeah, it's interesting you talked about the set list in that it was getting more regular. I mean, you could argue that that was almost a transition time when they were moving from a studio album band into a touring band, like not yet, but getting towards that way. For sure. Yeah, I think, and it's interesting because they didn't end up touring at all in 2005. They did a couple of like one-off shows, basically. They came back in 06 and
01:12:49
Speaker
pulled a couple of new things out, but that's a tour they did with the Goo Goo Dolls. And so they were only playing, they were alternating headlining and they were only playing about 85 minutes a night. So that tour has some interesting stuff, but again, was frequently kind of a very samesy tour. And then the next year when they did the ballpark tour, they really kind of busted out the set list again. And in part related to them having the songs for Saturday Nights and Sunday Morning. So an interesting point there of like,
01:13:19
Speaker
that got them thinking about what other interesting things could be grabbed. It always has seemed like kind of a theme for them because some of the years where they've gone back on tour with an album have also been years where they've been like, oh, what if we play this old song or this old song?
New Songs Inspiring Old Repertoire
01:13:37
Speaker
So maybe Sweet Tooth
01:13:41
Speaker
will lead them to be thinking about some new songs they haven't played in a while and they'll kind of freshen up and we'll see some different stuff that we haven't heard in a bit. For those fans of New Frontier and I don't know I was gonna say you know something else but yeah it might be.
01:14:02
Speaker
Okay, this is a hard candy ranking. Yeah exactly how low new frontier is. Okay. Yeah I kind of like it. I'm not sure. I'm not sure it ranks I'm not sure it ranks compared to the other songs, but I kind of like it. So Okay. So anyway, what another great episode and thank you everyone for listening We know we're gonna see if our friendship can survive with a conversation. We have that new frontier on the episode
01:14:28
Speaker
Well, we already survived Mercury, so New Frontier is going to be no problem. And the time and time again in Ghost Train debacle, so we worked through
Wrapping Up and Music Ranking Civility
01:14:38
Speaker
all that. We've been civil. As Adam told us, it's not about who wins or loses an election. It's about being civil in the process and wherever the rankings land. So far, we've found a way to be civil error. We'll see. I agree.
01:14:52
Speaker
Well, thank you everyone and we will see you next time right down here on Sullivan Street. Good night.