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E16: Across a Wire (Part II)
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Chris, Eric, Geoff, Will Hodge, and Ryan McCaffrey continue their Across a Wire retrospective.
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Overview
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to episode 16 of Sullivan Street, part two of two of our Across a Wire deep dive. So if you didn't listen to the first part, go back and listen to that on episode 15. We have exciting guests. Jeff Harkness is back. We have journalists, podcasters, and we're having a lot of fun going through one of the most unique live albums of all time, that double album, Kynan Crow's first official live release. It's Across a Wire here on Sullivan Street. Enjoy.
Top Five Songs and Their Rankings
00:00:47
Speaker
Which leaves us to the top five songs, the top half of our rankings, the official set in stone rankings of VH1 storytellers, Cannon Crows songs, and here we go. I say the beginning was the most contentious and you could also argue this one. This is a strange one now.
00:01:06
Speaker
the most extreme differences.
Debate on 'Chelsea' and Its Arrangement
00:01:09
Speaker
Two people had this as their lowest song on the album, while three of us had it in the top three. Here we go, which is the studio recording addendum of Chelsea. I have comments, but I will pass on my comments and go to Ryan first, who had this as his favorite song on the album.
00:01:33
Speaker
Yeah, I put in my notes and I might've even said in email when we were, I was like, is this, are we counting this? Cause this is my number one. But it's, yeah, it's a beautiful studio. Again, sounds to me like a studio recording of a recovering the satellites era song, even if we don't know if it was part of the sessions. And the fact that this was a hidden track on the,
00:01:59
Speaker
on this release only kind of made it better for me. And it's just such a beautiful song with the horns in it as well. And the building, the way that it builds with, you know, when Adam sends, maybe things are different and just keeps building it and building it. I talked earlier about how I love momentum building in songs. And I just adore this song. And then it's,
00:02:24
Speaker
By the way, I hope at some point that you guys on Sullivan Street do a ranking of all the Counting Crow's B-sides, like things they've recorded. Yeah, we have that. Yeah, we have that on our list. Yeah, that would be awesome, because this would definitely be in there. I mean, stuff like, baby, I'm a big star now. But yeah, again, acknowledging that maybe it's cheating to put this as number one. But yeah, this was tops for me on this album.
00:02:53
Speaker
All right, Jeff, let's go to you who had it number 10, which is fine. I mean, it doesn't fit in. So you can say, right. So Ryan could say it doesn't fit in. It's my favorite. And Jeff, you could say it doesn't fit in. It's my least favorite.
Use of Horns in Rock Songs
00:03:07
Speaker
Yeah. Well, hmm, what can I say about Chelsea? I know how much everyone or lots of Karen Krosvans like this song. It's never been a song I thought was very good.
00:03:21
Speaker
from the time I heard it, I was like, nah, you know, I could just, I never thought it's always sound very under undeveloped. Anytime I hear a horn in a rock song, I'm always suspicious anyway. It's like a red flag.
00:03:37
Speaker
To me, I'm like, if we take the horn out, does it improve the song or not? Why is this horn here? Is it improving the song? Is it not improving the song? Is it a gimmick? What's with the horn? I think sometimes, sometimes, and I even had some subnote that I wrote about good rock songs with horns. And I'm writing Clarence Clemens. His stuff was really good. And I'm making notes about
00:04:02
Speaker
What were the good rock songs where the horn was so integral to it? And we could probably think of many, many versions, examples of that. But here I was like, the horn is not
Favorite Hidden Tracks from the 90s
00:04:14
Speaker
helping. I was just listening to She Doesn't Exist Anymore. And there's a horn in that song, their cover of that, that I think really complements the song. And it's really beautiful. And in some ways, similar to the Chelsea.
00:04:29
Speaker
But yeah, to me, this song just always felt a little bit underdeveloped. It belongs in that category of black and blue and some of those other like kind of mid-tempo songs from Hard Candy that I just thought always were kind of undercooked. But his vocal performance is nice and it's a nice enough song. But yeah, just Chelsea never really did it for me.
00:04:57
Speaker
Will will go to I had some thought about the horns, but I'll wait until after Chris Will you You know, let's hear your thoughts.
Placement and Vibe of 'Chelsea'
00:05:06
Speaker
Yeah, so I absolutely not only had this at number 10 It was the first of the the ranking like before I even had to look at the track list to see where anything else but I was like Oh, we're doing Chelsea
00:05:19
Speaker
So I'll start by saying like, I absolutely love a good 90s hidden track like Euro Trash Girl by Cracker, Incredible Song, Your House by Alanis. Lauren Hill, like her cover of Frankie Valli's Can't Take My Eyes Off You off miseducation of Lauren Hill.
00:05:40
Speaker
This song feels so wildly out of place on this double album, especially on the cohesive storyteller's disc, because in essence, at the end of disc one is in the middle of the collection, that its existence is almost bothersome to me within that context. The song itself
00:06:04
Speaker
You know, totally okay. I love the Smokey Jazz Club vibe of that like piano and horn. And I do, you know, Adam's voice is always great, especially this is his sort of like hushed, weary vocal tone that I call Satom Duritz. I love it when he kind of gets into this Satom
Studio Recordings and B-Sides Discussion
00:06:24
Speaker
vocal. But I would have much rather have seen this.
00:06:29
Speaker
They didn't put it out in the States, but they put out in the UK a single of Mr. Jones from Across the Wire. And I would have loved to... I should have pulled it out. I would have loved to have seen it as a B-side on that import single, because it had Mr. Jones and Angels of the Silences from the Storyteller set, and then that 10-minute, almost 10-minute version of Round here from the 10-spot.
00:06:57
Speaker
I would have loved to have seen it as a B side on that single and I probably would have enjoyed it or experienced it more. But where it's at in this album always feels like such a parking brake to me just within the context of the album. It keeps me from being able to like give it a to do as an individual song. So 10 with a bullet.
00:07:21
Speaker
All right, Chris, what about you? Thoughts on Chelsea? So I have this number two. First of all, I feel the way it fits perfectly in this record is in the midst of two shows recorded in New York City, there's a song about New York City. Right. And specifically about the architecture of New York and the way that makes Adam feel and particularly getting in the context of sort of across the wire. I think it's a very it's a very sort of evocative of that.
00:07:50
Speaker
I'm a horn fan, Jeff. I got to tell you, I like horns. And in particular, I think this is a genre of songs that are sort of, I think, underappreciated or maybe not, depending on your perspective on them. But I kind of lumped this with Miller's Angels, which we'll talk about more later on in this episode, I'm sure.
00:08:11
Speaker
And also like Good Luck, which is another sort of, you know, sort of discarded song from this time. But there's this like kind of beautiful, arranged like piano ballad thing that I actually think is really something I really like from the band.
Counting Crows' Orchestral Shows
00:08:27
Speaker
And I think it's distinguished from sort of where they get to and Hard Candy.
00:08:31
Speaker
with that kind of stuff. There's a certain type of song, again, that only exists in this period for some reason that I really like. And I just think it's a beautiful take. Actually, I will say one of my, I'm sure we will talk about Goodnight Elizabeth in great detail at some point in an episode of this podcast. I think one of my favorite versions of Goodnight Elizabeth has Chelsea as an alt. And that's a pretty interesting thing. This song is a very,
00:09:00
Speaker
Like, it was used as an alt once. I think it's just once. Maybe if it's one or two, maybe there's one I'm forgetting. It also pops up on that orchestra show they did in 2005, which has never really been released. But there are quietly bootleg versions that have floated around. And there's a beautifully sort of lens itself, I think, to that sort of orchestral arrangement, too. I love the song. I had it high. I'm with you, Ryan. It's a great song.
00:09:30
Speaker
I had it high as well, not as high as the three of you. So I guess we'll have our horn tangent now, which I did not necessarily plan for ahead of time, but thanks to Jeff. And I had to look up, I had to try to verify while you were talking, but I believe, and Reddit says it, so it must be true, but no, I think that the horn players, Andre Carter, who played, I think all the horns,
00:09:53
Speaker
in the studio versions of the crows, which would be, and Jeff, the one you were thinking of is Carriage, right? When you were talking about mid-tempo, so I think he plays the horns in Carriage and Chelsea and the more recent Angels of 14th Street from Butter Miracle. And does he also play the horn on Palisades Park?
00:10:12
Speaker
Data oh yes yes I see what's all him he's Adam's buddy right there yeah every time he shows up occasionally on like live records to yeah New Orleans yeah so I think is that it might it is good does good luck have horns Chris
00:10:26
Speaker
Made it's because it might yes. Yeah, it might have yes And I think he plays it there now this person on reddit said that they were recorded at the same time whenever that was Chelsea and good luck So I'm not sure So I thought you had heard that or something the comparison makes sense. Well, they sound they're very similar sounding songs They're sort of a similar vibe. Yeah, that's right. Yeah
00:10:47
Speaker
I'm always, I guess I'm always, I almost didn't want this one included because I'm always a sucker because this is a new song. And I was like, well, this is a new Counting Crow song and I really like it. So I almost wanted to put it number one. I ended up putting it number three for reasons I'll talk about when we get to the other two. It is so funny, Jeff. And the one thing lyrically,
00:11:11
Speaker
I guess I agree with you. Even though I love, love the song, I do think it's not fully developed and maybe why didn't both. I think, yeah, maybe the song could have. Oh, one interesting side note about the song, though, is that which I was kind of surprised that four people get writing credit. So not only Duritz, but Bryson, Charlie Gillingham and Matt Malley.
00:11:32
Speaker
which kind of shocked me. To me, this was an Adam by himself song. But it's interesting because I think the lyrics include some of maybe not the best and ones I really like. So the ones like, I don't know, all this shit just sticks in my head. I was like, maybe he would change. Maybe he would improve that. There's a couple of lyrics I was like, maybe he could improve. But I agree with you, Chris. I think spending the fact that I lived in New York in my 20s, I kind of
00:11:59
Speaker
got the feeling about how the buildings in Chelsea could move him and not that anyway, but just something about how certain architecture of certain parts of the city can make you feel nostalgic, whether it's and I and I did like his
00:12:15
Speaker
I mean, I'm a sucker for Adam's optimism and pessimism in the same line. So like, hey, do you think things will be better maybe in a month or two? But probably not, but maybe. But it's kind of ambiguous, because he's like, it always could be better. But I kind of doubt it will be. And I think I see that possibility days have kind of that theme. So anyway, I have Chelsea number three, but I can understand why people had it lower. I'm OK with that, not personally offended.
00:12:45
Speaker
Let's go to the top four. Here we go. This is it.
00:12:51
Speaker
Yeah, I I will let people come. So number four is a song that one person had as their favorite. And then the rest of us kind of had in the middle ish. And that's how it ended up in number four, which is ranking. And I guess in that case, I will start with Will, who had it as his favorite song from this album.
Ranking and Impact of 'Rain King'
00:13:11
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, so. So yeah, I put ranking is number one. I feel like the reason that I put it at number one, the
00:13:21
Speaker
the criteria I was working with. I feel like that this version of Rain King sort of encapsulates within a single performance almost everything that I think is unique of what I love about Counting Crows. You've got an incredibly rich vocal performance, this sort of spacious acoustic electric instrumental interplay with each other.
00:13:45
Speaker
this amazing ability to reinvent their own songs. There's a non-album alt section with that, you know, every little big fish part. They pull in elements of other songs with the little Goodnight Elizabeth reference at the end, and all of that happens in like under six minutes. And I'll say I also put it as number one because I think it has the best background vocals of the night. There's a couple other places where Charlie is more prominent, but
00:14:15
Speaker
His vocals are kind of off to me in some sections. Like I've heard him sing much better than he does in the storyteller's performance. Except for on Rain King, the vocals, yeah, are the best. So yeah, I think it's just there's so many great things and so many unique things about what they do well in this version of Rain King, especially if you play it back to back with the August version.
00:14:45
Speaker
Alright, great. Let's go to Ryan. This is a tough one for me because I would say, I mean, Rain King might be my favorite Counting Crows song overall because it just doesn't matter how it's arranged. We've heard it a number of different ways over the years and I just love them all.
00:15:04
Speaker
This was the first time that I had heard it acoustically like this or at least arranged differently than the album or just a straight ahead electric version in concert. And it just blew me away then. And listening back for the exercise of coming into this podcast to rank these, it blew me away now. And it's only at five because the other
00:15:29
Speaker
Well, the other three, and then I had Chelsea as number one for me, so the three other proper storytellers songs just blew me away more. So I love Rain King in all forms, very much including this form. Jeff, let's go to you.
00:15:46
Speaker
Yeah, I think Rain King, I agree, is one of their very best songs. Just like the studio version is a 10 out of 10 absolute classic song. And so that's what you're up against. Even your live version has to compete with that. And that's hard to do. And this is where it comes back to what I was saying earlier about
00:16:08
Speaker
You know what is a live album and and to me like a song like this the arrangement of this is always going to be a very cool compliment to the actual studio version itself as much as I like this version and I like the way that they have rearranged it and I think it's so cool.
00:16:25
Speaker
It's always going to be secondary to that better to me studio version only because the studio version is like a stone cold 10 out of 10 classic song and and it's hard to compete with that. So I really I like their arrangement here. I don't I don't like it as much as some of the other rearrangements. This is why I didn't rank higher. I also I thought this one has the best
00:16:48
Speaker
introduction or story in the storytelling, where he talks about him being the Rain King and sort of being a metaphor for letting his creativity free and soar, and sort of that anyone can do that in whatever they want to do. I think that I just really appreciated what the song means to him, I guess. And so I hear it a little differently.
00:17:15
Speaker
in that regard too. So yeah, I liked it. I thought it was good. I want to crowbar in real quick just that years and years ago, I went and got and read Saul Bellow's Henderson the Rain King because I love this song so much. And I ended up really loving the book.
00:17:33
Speaker
Right. Oh, that's great. That's great. Now, Jeff, I'm glad to get because you you were not on our August episode. So I'm actually appreciating your takes on some of these songs that you didn't get a chance to say in an earlier episode. Chris, we'll go to you. So I had this number four and this is hard for me. This is because this is my favorite Counting Crow song. This is definitely my favorite Counting Crow song. And I think this arrangement of it is spectacular. I think I would generally speaking take acoustic green king over electric green king.
00:18:00
Speaker
And I think where this one lost out over just a couple of other things is specifically that they've done this song so many times and I think have hit, they hit higher heights with this song after. Like the alt in the middle is okay but I feel like there's a lot more. I do love, I always love when they drop the Goodnight Elizabeth thing in the end because the way those two songs interconnect I think is
00:18:25
Speaker
again, very sort of foundational for what I love about the band and the way those two songs, the emotional things that come out of them really like connect for me. And it was interesting listening back because I was like, man, you know, I've heard this version. It's like, well, actually, no, no, no. This probably is really where they're bringing or at least refining the arrangement that they were going to use. They still use if they play Rain King acoustic, which it's been a little bit since they've done that, but they did for, you know, 20 years regularly after they've recorded this.
00:18:55
Speaker
Um, and I think, yeah, it's just where my brain goes to like, Oh man, this is good. But what about that version from Hammerstein in 2004 and this version from, you know, Denver in 2009? It's like, that's, I think that sort of was the only thing kind of holding me back on this one, but I think it's beautiful. Amazing arrangement.
00:19:14
Speaker
Yeah, mine is, I guess, similar to... I'm not gonna add too much. I had it at number six, except to say that this is, to me, the definition... Not definition, but a very typical example of almost what... I don't... Because I didn't think I heard any of the songs ahead of time, if I'm trying to think back then. I don't think I saw Storytellers, and I don't think I'd heard anything until buying the disc.
00:19:34
Speaker
So when I saw the track list, this was almost what I expected to hear. Like I thought it was awesome, but I was like, oh, this sounds like an acoustic version of Rain King. And where the other three that we didn't get to yet. And I'm glad that they're in the top three because those three all blew me away in ways that like that this one didn't because I'm like, whoa, what the heck is this? And this is amazing. So
00:20:00
Speaker
So, yeah, and of course, Chelsea, right. Or, you know, it's kind of random, but OK, good. So now we are into those. Yeah, please. Oh, just one tiny little tag at the end to piggyback off Chris's point. I do love, you know, good night, Elizabeth. Anytime, Adam, it seems like.
00:20:17
Speaker
that song or references to that song or specific lines from that song he can just sprinkle into anything they
Acoustic Versions vs. Electric Versions
00:20:23
Speaker
do like they could cover the macarena and i think he could figure out a way to sprinkle in some good night elizabeth but i always love it when it's in ranking because of the whole like
00:20:32
Speaker
goodnight elizabeth has the king of the rain line and then so if you throw in goodnight elizabeth into rain king it makes this like really nice complimentary it's like yeah you can throw it in anywhere and it sounds great but it always just fits a little extra nice uh inside a rain king as well because of the reference uh to rain king and goodnight elizabeth so all right great good let's go to the top three and and
00:20:57
Speaker
Just let me think in two, although I had round here in number eight, I guess also being, and I'll say this why I'm bringing this up again, that if it really is the pared down, right, maybe I was surprised that round here was only gonna be him and Dave, but once you hear that, I guess, again, also that song, I'm like, okay, this is an acoustic version of round here. And then we get the track two, which is, Have You Seen Me Lately? And that's our number three. And that's, I guess, when I knew that, boy, this is a special disc. Now I had it number four, but it's only because I had Chelsea at number three in the,
00:21:27
Speaker
and the couple ones higher. None of us had this higher than three, but none of us ranked this low at all. Two did have it number six, but nobody had it in that bottom third. I'll let you guys talk about this. I just think that this is a great version and it blew my expectations away. And a song that I love both versions of the acoustic and the hard version. Ryan, let's go to you.
00:21:55
Speaker
The version of this, the electric version on live from the 10 spot is incredible. The album version of this is so good. If I had been on your RTS rankings, maybe RTS, it would have been very high for sure. Well, and we had, and have you seen me lately, was actually the group consensus number one song from that album.
00:22:17
Speaker
And yeah, I'm not sure I would have detracted from that if I had had my rankings in there. It is just awesome. And this one was tough for me to place. It's just, again, it's that thing where ultimately I had a couple of these other ones that we're going to talk about, which I guess I'm glad then that means you guys all felt the same way about these last couple that we're going to get to as I did. But yeah, have you seen me lately? I love this song so much.
00:22:47
Speaker
And I just think for me, I do love this acoustic arrangement, but I hold the electric version, both studio and live versions of, in extremely high regard. And so I think that's what landed this at number six for me on this particular album. All right, great. Jeff, let's go to you.
00:23:08
Speaker
Yeah, basically the same thing. I had it at number six also, and kind of for the same reason. As much as I enjoyed this version with the stripped down band, I mean, this is the one that has just Adam, Charlie, and Dave. So it felt almost a little thin.
00:23:25
Speaker
even in the acoustic format, they could do so much with a song like this now with all of the different instruments that they can add to it and the different colors that they bring in. But this to me is one of their great rock songs. We have the rock version on the second disc as well. To me, I'm just always going to prefer that arrangement and the rock band playing this song just because it's one of their best songs that does that.
00:23:54
Speaker
But I enjoyed it here. I still have some of the reinvented kind of songs that rank higher though. Will.
00:24:03
Speaker
I had this one as number three. It's one of my favorite songs off satellites. And I do really love this trio version, not only because they break it down quantity-wise to just three folks, two instruments. But the way they both play the piano and the acoustic guitar, there's almost like no full chords at any point during the song. There's so much breath and room in it.
00:24:30
Speaker
which makes it, you know, they're not just taking the tempo down. They're really kind of allowing Adam to go from this almost sort of like quasi manic version.
00:24:42
Speaker
of the electric of that vocal to this really like reflective introspective like it's one thing to have the awareness of like, I'm losing myself. Have you seen me lately? And then there's almost like this reflective pleading of like, no, seriously, you know, so yeah, I like that it's stripped down both in its in its quantity and in the quality of the way that they play it. It's really nice.
00:25:06
Speaker
All right, Chris, have you seen me lately? Yeah, I also had this one, number three. I think the, I don't know what Will said, like the space in the song really allows you to hear it in a way that is unique. And I think I love that the original version too, but I do think this version really, it's almost helpful to hear the original version after hearing this and really being able to feel the way the words and the sentiment kind of comes out of Adam. It kind of makes it all,
00:25:34
Speaker
connect weirdly, this one actually is appears three times on the record because it's also the alt and round here on the second disc. And it just sort of goes to show like how weird and versatile and like
00:25:46
Speaker
the way this song does kind of filter through that era of the band, that feeling that you can just kind of drop it anywhere and play it at any tempo. They've done arrangements after this, too, that are sort of between the acoustic and the electric version, too. There's just something about this song. We were talking about earlier, right, that they're so
00:26:07
Speaker
good at finding different ways to express this thing. And this is one of those songs that just has found a lot of different ways to get, you know, it's the same words and still recognizable as a song in all these different forms.
Acoustic Transformation of 'Mr. Jones'
00:26:20
Speaker
But it just, it just sort of works. And this was one, yeah, where the rearrangement really was just, it's just kind of devastating relative to the original one, you know, in terms of how it like feels.
00:26:29
Speaker
Great. Thank you. Yeah. Well, I think all of you said all the things I was thinking. So we'll just go to our top two and and then, you know, this is this is one. Well, Jeff screwed up my Chelsea ranking. But I was going to say this was one of the few times that I almost got because I usually have not really had I mean, I've affected the rankings, but usually my number one, like through three.
00:26:50
Speaker
hasn't been but I've actually number one and two and I did not cook the books ended up my number one and two and it was weird because they were really hard for me to To do and actually I do want to say there was a pretty clear Delineation and we'll get to in a second that it wasn't like only a one-point difference or whatever. There was a clear number one number two so number two would be the
00:27:14
Speaker
uh acoustic version of the hit song mr jones so that ended up being number two it was also mine number two chris is number one and that's why i'm complimenting you chris we were on the same page on this one and i could easily put it number one the rest of the group was oh no ryan also had it hi jeff you know uh we'll get to jeff and uh we'll add it in the middle
00:27:36
Speaker
I guess I'll start with this one because I didn't make comments. You know, it's funny because I had Mr. Jones as my favorite song on August and I think generally the songs that I love, I guess, except have you seen it lately, but some songs like Catapult and I put lower here because I didn't think it changed enough.
00:27:55
Speaker
But when I heard this for the first time, as I said, it just blew me away how haunting. And I really appreciate, Will, what you said about the change between the manic and the inflection from Have You See Me Lately? I think you're spot on with that. And there is something similar going on here, right? Where Mr. Jones, the original version is like this happy,
00:28:18
Speaker
optimism yet he knows what he's getting into but like whatever I'm young and we can be rock and roll stars and now it's like yep it's kind of what I thought it would be and and I quickly right now as we're talking I just highlighted and some of these lyric changes which I know you know some people don't like but I love have stayed to this day
00:28:41
Speaker
I guess it's one of them that usually is not, but worth, of course, is the beginning. So you want to be a rock and roll star. Well, listen, listen out to what I say, which is from Jeff. Now I'm forgetting. That's a faint. That's the birds. The birds. Yeah. OK. Called. It's called. So you want to be a rock and roll star. Oh, right. Right. But the birds. Right. I would not have remembered from the birds.
00:29:01
Speaker
But yeah, a couple other lyric change like, yeah, I get so confused every day and we get second thoughts about being a rock and roll star. You should not believe in me.
00:29:12
Speaker
It's just about as tough as you can be. And then of course with Chris, which I, you know, when you mentioned this earlier, I almost forgot about it. And I was like, what is he talking about? But he brings in the Miller's Angels lyric. Can't you hear me? I'm screaming because I did not go outside yesterday. So let's go to Chris. I don't know for someone that, anyway, I just, I just remember even one of my friends who doesn't love Mr. Jones, he just kept, he couldn't stop here playing this version on repeat when it first got released.
00:29:40
Speaker
This might be my most listened to Counting Crow's track because I had not bought this record when it came out. And so as I was sort of getting deeper into the band in 2001, 2002,
00:29:57
Speaker
as many people did, because this is 2001, 2002, I found this version of this song on, I don't even think it was Napster. I think Napster was dead already. I think it was like LimeWire or something. And I listened to it over and over and over again. It's so like, once you get that feeling in you, it's one of those songs where it's his performance. Adam's performance is devastating. The rearrangement is so radical. And this is where, I said at the beginning,
00:30:27
Speaker
If you want to test if someone really might love Counting Crows, this is the album to do it. The fastest way might just be to play them this version of Mr. Jones. And if they go, fuck, that's amazing, they're going to be a fan. And if they say, what the hell is that? Just tell them to leave and never talk to them again.
00:30:46
Speaker
It's just so, like, I like, anyone who like tells me they like this version of this song, it's like, I'd like, like, we're gonna be friends, right? We're gonna talk about this. So, like, again, this is the leap, I think, to me for this band. And it's interesting that this, you know, this is kind of the record, as Jeff points out, where people start to sort of jump off the bandwagon.
00:31:12
Speaker
at least critically. And I think part of it is really confronting people with what this band is. You know what I mean? Like, there's a lot of people who like that record or that like the, you know, like August or like recovering the satellites and aren't really, again, just there for the whole thing. But if you listen to this, you know, this is for the heads. This is for the people that are going to be there kind of all the way through.
00:31:37
Speaker
Yeah, I know it's in this is again, I think this is it's I will say I don't talk about this like buying this record, which I don't think I did until like 2002 or three really was the one that made me go. Okay, I'm definitely I'm like all in on this band. This is my favorite band. I'm positive. This is my favorite band. I'm going to love them forever.
00:31:58
Speaker
I don't even know what a podcast is, but I'm going to host one of those in 20 years, you know, this year, like that song. And just, I'm particularly fond of the, that bit of, of Miller's angels. I think that to me is one of Adam's best lyrics, but it's again, I think, I think I overrated Miller's angels on the RTS episode because I love it so much. And really, I love that bit in Miller's angels. I really love it here.
00:32:24
Speaker
also at the end of Perfect Blue Buildings. That's a side conversation we'll get to someday. But yeah, this is so hot. This is so good. This is like, again, this might be my favorite Counting Crows track.
00:32:37
Speaker
Great, thank you. Ryan, let's go to you. I love how you described this as basically a Counting Crow super fan litmus test, because I think that's... it's spot on. I had this, you know, this actually, I ended up moving this up on my rankings, because I was like, oh, you know, Mr. Jones, the song I've heard...
00:32:56
Speaker
still love it. I've never gotten tired of it because I'm a Counting Crow super fan. But I'm like really like this this is gonna am I gonna put this at the top and it's like now it's like you know maybe then what is gonna be our next song like I had that higher but no I can't I when I listened back through to the whole thing again a second I was like no
00:33:15
Speaker
this version of Mr. Jones is incredible in every way, shape, and form. And so I had this as number two, which is number one on my list of the nine proper storytellers songs. And again, for me in 1998, I had never heard this song acoustically before. So this
00:33:38
Speaker
floored me at the time, coming back to it again recently, I just think this version still holds up insanely well. I think it's the best of these nine songs, these nine acoustic songs, well, these nine storytellers songs that are on this album. And yeah, I just ended up surprising myself with how much I loved it and still love it. But yeah, it's just still incredible, absolutely.
00:34:10
Speaker
And Jeff let's go to you not to be a buzz killer we will after that after after these uh if these rankings of the best song ever produced and yeah, right now, what do I commit I failed the litmus test once again now I The this this and ranking went close to the bottom of my list for the same reason that I think that the studio versions
00:34:33
Speaker
are untouchable. How do you compete with a perfect studio version of a song? I agree with what Ryan was saying. Mr. Jones is still a song. I've always loved it. And I still love it today. You hear that song. Sometimes you hear a song you've heard a million times. I'm like, good god. And even there are some Counting Crow songs, like Long December, that I could be fine really not hearing too often. But Mr. Jones comes on. I'm still all on board. I love this song.
00:35:01
Speaker
So to me, the studio version is just going to be better than what you can do. Now, with something like this, I was talking earlier about the strategy. What is the strategy of an album like this? Partially, it's to show how they can reinvent their material. And in some ways, they're so good at doing that. I think Rain King really
00:35:24
Speaker
even more to this point, it's sort of like we're just showing you that we can do this. This version of Rain King's not better than the studio version. We just wanted to show you how we can flip it and take a song like this and redo it this way. It almost becomes like a parlor trick at some point. I think also we were talking about Layla, that version of Layla. I think Will was saying this earlier, the unplugged version of Layla. It's like the studio version of Layla,
00:35:54
Speaker
I mean, my God, the emotion, the pain, that song is just unbelievable. The unplugged version, it sounds like something you hear on a golf course. That song was diminished by its unplugged version. To me, it's hard to take a perfect song and reinvent it as an acoustic version and still give it the power and all of that stuff that it has. To me,
00:36:22
Speaker
As much as I love these reinventions of like Rain King and Mr. Jones, the biggest setback to me is that they're competing with perfect studio versions. And to me, as a listener, I'm always going to be using it as a ref. That's the reference point.
00:36:41
Speaker
That's that DNA. We as listeners have that same DNA. We know these songs so well. The reason that Counting Crow's fans, and this is the litmus test for this album, love this album is because we know these songs so well that when we hear them redone, we can understand how radical these reinventions are.
00:37:00
Speaker
because we know every note, every single nuance too. So when Adam or the band does something different, we automatically notice it. And here we can, as fans, appreciate just how much they're redoing these.
00:37:14
Speaker
And to me, loving the Counting Crows Live is central. You can't be a Counting Crows fan and not love them live because that's kind of what they are and what they're about. And so here, this whole album is in some ways like a celebration of that fact. And if you're a fan, you're going to appreciate every single thing that they're doing here because you know how much they're redoing this because you know the songs as well as they do.
00:37:42
Speaker
Rant over. No, that's great. Thank you. And we'll end Mr. Jones. Chat with you. Yeah, I feel like my ranking versus what I'm about to say about it is going to feel a bit contrary to each other. But I put it at number six, not because it was bad or there were things I didn't like about it. But it's kind of funny. I feel like that
00:38:08
Speaker
I give them props because their ability to find this new emotional entry point, like you were kind of talking about earlier, the original has this sort of like,
00:38:20
Speaker
bouncy prophetic optimism of like I Understand the bittersweet nature of it, but full steam ahead, you know, and this is the other side of it Which is the like super duper, you know weary again sat on vocal of like being able to kind of be like, oh wait, this is this is I knew it was gonna be Bad, but maybe not exactly, you know, or I knew it was gonna have drawbacks, but maybe not exactly like this and so
00:38:49
Speaker
I'm very impressed by all of his lyrical changes. Nothing he does ever seems just weirdly off the top of his head because that's just what he decided to do in that very moment. It all seems connected to how he's feeling that day. But I really like the instrumental difference because this song, again, the studio version, as incredible as it is, it's very
00:39:15
Speaker
you know, electric guitar driven and the drums are pretty heavy. And so I think this is one where Ben's kind of broken down drum set. It really shows why he did that. And the fact that he's being able to play the kick with his hand, you know, he has his kick drum up high because he's standing up and he's playing the kick with his hand instead of that with his foot. So it takes out so much of the drum pulse to it.
00:39:41
Speaker
And then moving the anchor of the song from the electric guitars to an accordion really kind of lets there be not only just more breath for Adam's weariness, but it's uh It's kind of just like a more It's a more like Loopy airy instrument than kind of the electric guitar driven part. So I love that like even in the instrumental choices it's not just like
00:40:05
Speaker
You know, oh yeah, we could do this or we could do that or maybe we could do this feels like every single thing. It's like, no, that everybody knows this song with electric guitars out front. So both guitars, y'all play acoustic guitars and then let's put the accordion out front. I mean, you know, apart from Weird Al, who's who's rocking an accordion led song on the radio, you know, but they were able to do it because this one, at least in Atlanta, where I grew up, was played on the radio. And thanks for bringing up the accordion. I'm sorry, I didn't even put that in my notes. I love it in this song.
00:40:35
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it's not an accompaniment. It's like front and center. It's like, hey, guitars, take a step back, you know, let Charlie have his accordion day in the sun. And as I make sense. Yeah, it's beautiful. Well, as I mentioned to Chris and we'll talk about it in the next song, too, I said I was not I mean, I Charlie, you know, should be back there with the keyboard.
Transformation of 'Angels of the Silences'
00:40:55
Speaker
That's where he's best. But I also love to see them on the accordion. And the fact that he came out with a couple of songs and at this summer, including the Taylor Swift song,
00:41:03
Speaker
it was just great to see it because it brought me back to these days and of course you know Omaha as well. The other interesting flip instrumentation wise right is that this is one we talked about this in that mallee this is one of the on the record it's one of the only ones that let him play like fretless bass.
00:41:19
Speaker
And here he's playing an upright. So it's a full wide swing on what the bottom end of the song sounds like, too. That's true. Just to be clear, the litmus test is not that you have to love this better. You just have to be fascinated by it and not help. You know what I mean? That's your favorite. It has to draw you deeper. I think for all of us, this version of the song kind of draws you deeper into it.
00:41:47
Speaker
Yeah, Chris, when you were talking about what you liked about the song, or loved about the song, and I appreciate it, I was thinking, isn't it a cliche to call something hauntingly beautiful? I think I've heard, right? But that's how I would describe this version of Mr. Jones.
00:42:02
Speaker
right yeah well he's hauntingly yeah exactly and even the sound the song sounds haunted so um i was and i almost i agree with you chris i i really had this almost number one for a while and in the end i switched it to what ends up being the overall number one i was the only person to vote at number one but all of us and the reason i ended up number one is that all of us including jeff had it in the top five
00:42:25
Speaker
which would be angels of the silences, the acoustic version. We agreed that this is in the top five. And I don't know, even though it's not supposed to cloud our judgment,
00:42:36
Speaker
curious what you take. I almost think in a way that watching them play it this summer might have moved it up in the tiebreaker and I don't know if it's because that the whole band is in this one compared to write the couple tracks before that some of the couple tracks and their harmonies in it is incredible but I just remember that when I saw it this summer I got the chills and by the way one of the
00:43:01
Speaker
And I think, I guess we all kind of agree, I could be wrong, but I think the reason that Angels Mr. Jones and Have You Seen Me Lately ended up the top three is that because not only the great versions, but it changed so much, right? And we love both. They feel like two separate songs that are both amazing. So let's go to Ryan for his thoughts about Angels of the Silences.
00:43:21
Speaker
Yeah, like I said, I ended up flipping with Mr. Jones, had this as my number two for a bit, but ended up... Well, and then Catapult came in on that final listen-through. So it's the strongest number four I could possibly say, even though, oh, number four, there's three ahead of it, but this is so good. I mean, at the time this song came out, again, as the lead single ahead of the release of Recovering the Satellites,
00:43:48
Speaker
after I'd, you know, gotten so into this band by listening a thousand times to August and everything after all the way through and getting starting to get into bootlegs. And then here comes the lead single from their second album, which is the heaviest song. It's way heavier than anything on August and everything after. And it's arguably even to this day, the heaviest song they've ever done, maybe Cowboys might
00:44:13
Speaker
give it a run for maybe 1492 and that's about it maybe or are the trail but this this was so hearing this song torn down to the studs for me was was such a shock.
00:44:29
Speaker
But this but the song still totally works, which to me makes it such a great song. And I thought, again, coming back to it after a while here, it just and I did get to hear this acoustically when they came to the Greek theater here in Berkeley on this year's tour.
00:44:46
Speaker
I will say I do prefer the electric version and I still dream of one day hearing it electric in concert again one day. I'm not sure Adam wants to go there vocally anymore but the acoustic version is just
00:45:05
Speaker
It's an incredible piece of music to me that's it is the polar opposite of the electric version, but I still love it for as a just a wholly unique take on it. So yeah, number four for me, but but adore this. Thank you. And before I go to Jeff, I agree. I'm the same. I always wanted to hear the electric and I don't think I ever heard it. And I agree with you. I think he's probably doesn't want to go there. But hopefully maybe maybe we'll hear at some point. Jeff, let's go to you.
00:45:33
Speaker
Yeah, this was number two for me. And only because Anna Begins is such a high song on my list. But to me, this version of this song was the realization of what they were trying to do and achieve with this project. This is where they nailed exactly what this was all about, which was a radical reinvention of a 10 out of 10 great song
00:45:58
Speaker
completely 180'd with this new, completely new arrangement, great harmonies, where you've taken a great studio song, I keep saying it, and here, this might almost be as good as the studio version when you've flipped it in this way. Like, you've almost convinced me that this is better, although I still am not totally convinced in the studio version,
00:46:20
Speaker
But I love this arrangement. I still remember the first time I saw them do this in concert and had never heard like a bootleg or anything. So I, of course, back to the DNA, knew the song inside and out. And I'm like completely mind blown seeing them reinvent this in front of me on stage from like I was in like the third row or something.
00:46:43
Speaker
It was incredible. So I think I said before, I always see Angels of the Silences and Have You See Me Lately as sort of these companion songs or like sister songs. They're very similar to me in some ways. To me, this was a much more successful reinvention of Angels of Silences than the Have You See Me Lately, which was good, but not this good. So I love this. I thought this was what they were trying to like achieve with this album. Loved it. Great. Thank you, Jeff. Will.
00:47:13
Speaker
Yeah, I had this as my number two. I think the only reason I put ranking above it is because I thought that my love of the studio version of this song may have been shading it,
Impact of Across a Wire Album
00:47:27
Speaker
so I thought I might need to measure it by putting it at number two. But yeah, this version, the electric version on satellites, this version of Counting Crows with Ben on drums is absolutely
00:47:40
Speaker
like my favorite little encapsulation of what was, you know, the potential for the band. And I think that I've always thought with this version that it was really smart. Most bands when they kind of go for that, we're going to turn this electric barn burner into an acoustic version. They usually signal it by slowing the song down. Like that's the conventional go-to move.
00:48:04
Speaker
I think that the changes that they made in their instrumental performances on this one kind of make people think it's slower than it actually is. It's actually tempo wise is not where they drastically changed it. It's in how they all approach their instruments. Again, a little bit of what I said to the previous one, but I think the key is really what Charlie's doing on the accordion, but especially
00:48:29
Speaker
Ben once again on that little broken down drum set you listen to his drums on the studio version and it is the most like beautifully pounding like give it to me in my face uh drum performance and then in this one he doesn't drastically take it down but he but he changes how he's playing the the kick and the snare again since he's playing his kick with his hand this time um yeah it's just
00:48:55
Speaker
I love that change from the full-throated catharsis that I love so much on the album version, which again is probably my favorite Counting Crow song, to this storyteller's version that's a little more relaxed and there's reflection and it's more about the resolve of what he's singing about than this declaration that's on the album.
00:49:16
Speaker
Yeah, the album version is probably my most listened to song of theirs from Satellites. And this acoustic version is definitely the one that if I'm ever going to go to Across the Wire just for like one song to hear and then go listen to something else, this one always hits perfectly every time I put it on. Absolutely love it.
00:49:37
Speaker
Chris, and we'll end our VH1 portion of the podcast with you, even though you had it lower ranked than us, we'll still end with you. Yeah, and then I had it at number five, and this is where I talked about from like three to six of like, have you seen me lately, Rain King, This, and Catapult? I think all of them are really, I have them very close. I will say that to me, the testament of this song, you know, I'll listen, they put a new show up on Nuggs, I'm going to listen to it.
00:50:04
Speaker
you know, if it's the fourth show they've put up this week, it's a pretty good chance I'm skipping Omaha. Fourth time of the week, I'm okay. But they played Angels of the Silences pretty much every show, once they started playing it this summer, they played it and I never skipped it. It's so, the way they play it and the way the arrangement this summer was basically this arrangement. It's beautiful and particularly call out like the harmonies
00:50:31
Speaker
on the bridge part, the, I dream of Michelangelo when I'm, it's really beautiful, like harmony vocals in a way that the band's a, I think great harmony singers, but that may be like one of the best encapsulations of how good they can be like singing harmony together. Adam's always talking about like them singing start again together. These guys singing that together is like always, always perfect. It's again, a wonderful, wonderful rearrangement that, you know,
00:50:59
Speaker
even though I had a really kind of no argument, I think it works as an absolutely as a number one song for this record. Absolutely. Well, thanks so much.
Energy in Live Performances
00:51:08
Speaker
So we've spent whatever 85% of this podcast going mostly over the VH1 storytellers disc because quite frankly, that's probably the disc that people are thinking when they say Across the Wire is my favorite Crows album for some people or they think about it because it's so unique.
00:51:25
Speaker
But we do not want to ignore the second disk live from the 10 spot. So what we're going to do for this is just go one by one. And I think all of us have some notes or general thoughts about it. And so we'll just end this last part of the podcast of doing that. So let's go. Well, let's start off with Ryan. Your thoughts or notes or observations about the live from the 10 spot.
00:51:49
Speaker
So I kind of boiled it all down to one word after listening back to this whole thing a couple of times. And the word is energy. The energy in this show is off the charts. And I've had such a good time, and I love this band so much, and I've been enjoying you guys with Sullivan Street so much. And I'm like, oh, I hope maybe they'll invite me back. And I'm about to say something that might get me banned forever.
00:52:15
Speaker
But it's my honest opinion, as a Count and Crow super fan who sees them every time they come through town, and it's that we don't get this energy anymore. And I get that they're 60-year-old guys now. So I totally understand the human element of it. And I would say the trade-off has been that their musicianship is way better now. Not that they were slouches in 1997,
00:52:42
Speaker
But the craft has been refined through thousands of shows over many decades. But boy, the energy in this
00:52:53
Speaker
Have you seen me lately? Soars on that 10-spot disc. Round here is always just such an emotional journey in any sort of concert setting. And then I love how Adam, during a murder of one, implores the crying, get the hell up! He's just really, he's letting it all out, just leaving it all on the stage with this performance. And so,
00:53:21
Speaker
I just had a ball listening back to this again, to this era of Counting Crows, just seeing them live here in the Bay Area once a year, which I've been lucky enough to get to do since they always come back through town. It's sort of their original, the hatching place of Counting Crows.
00:53:42
Speaker
But yeah, it was a fun throwback to this higher energy era of the band. And so yeah, I love this 10 spot disc. I mean, obviously the set list is what it is. It's the first two albums.
00:53:58
Speaker
And I'm sure you guys are gonna do reviews of the subsequent live releases that kind of work in some stuff from newer albums. But man, yeah, it's one word for this, it's energy. And I mean that with the highest of compliments with this live from the 10 spot. Great, thanks so much. Jeff, let's go to you.
00:54:19
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, basically the same thing. It's really fun to hear the more stripped down earlier version of the group with fewer instruments and you just have all of the raw energy and in some ways the songs can come out even more as a result of that.
00:54:38
Speaker
For me, this is the disc I'm going to put on. If I'm going to grab this disc off of the shelf, I don't have discs on shelves anymore. If I did have this disc on a shelf and I was going to pull out the CD, I'd put this one on for sure. I always like the Rock Show better.
00:54:57
Speaker
And this is just a great song list, a set list rather, a great selection of songs. I like, you know, like the Children in Bloom, the version of that is really good. The version of Sullivan Street is awesome.
00:55:14
Speaker
Yeah, to me, I mean, I think, again, you're talking about like, what is the strategy here? Why are they releasing these two albums? Well, this one's just as important. They're sort of showing you that we do these two, you know, very different things. We can take these songs and we can flip them and do them a lot of different ways. But we have this very sort of powerful
00:55:34
Speaker
rock band here that we can pull out at any time. One of the things that I noticed seeing them on the last tour, and maybe this is a point that Ryan was making too, was just, man, this band has gotten so good. The band has gotten good.
00:55:53
Speaker
I don't think they used to be that good. I don't think they were as good. And they're like, they are so good now. They can just move. They can bring it up, down, take it all over the place now in ways that I don't think even they were doing at this point. But in some ways, just hearing that youthful, young, recovering the Satellites tour band is awesome. This is them sort of at the end of the road, but they still sound
00:56:19
Speaker
you know, like they're, they're, they're into it. So yeah, 10 out of 10 for me. Great. Let's go to you, Will. Yeah, a lot of what I love has already been said. I think that the, the way that they crank it to 11 on, on this album doesn't, doesn't feel like that it is somehow
00:56:41
Speaker
just like some sort of anomaly or anything like that, you know, we're kind of more towards one than the other. It really feels like two sides of an equally impressive coin of we can do both things really, really well, especially when you look at the songs that do appear on both discs and how the different versions that
00:57:00
Speaker
that they appear in. Yeah, I really love Angels in the Silences and the almost 10-minute version around here. Both of those are incredible. I even love How Sullivan Street, which is kind of a laid-back song.
00:57:12
Speaker
The back half of that
Future Re-release Hopes for Across a Wire
00:57:14
Speaker
on this 10 spot show has so much into it, which I think is really cool because the regular August version, the way he's singing with Maria McKee on that, she's so powerful and so high up in the mix that it almost feels like a duet on August.
00:57:32
Speaker
and he's somehow able to recreate that impressive energy live with just one vocal, which I think is wildly impressive. The only two things that I don't like about the album are both things that were just incredibly indicative things that would happen at every live show, if you ever went to in the 90s, which is during reigning in Baltimore, there's always some knucklehead in the crowd that screams during the silences, no matter what band it is, but especially during this one, you're just like,
00:58:01
Speaker
ma'am please like the first one fine but it's literally like takes over the whole track and then yeah as you kind of already mentioned in a murder of one if you were to play a drinking game with every time he says get up like forced audience participation was a very big thing in the 90s but I was like I'll give you one get up Adam but you know if you were to take a shot every time he says it you would not be straight eyed by the end of the song but
00:58:27
Speaker
Yeah, those are very minor, very, very minor quibbles to a really incredibly impressive companion piece. I think that both of these albums together, they're really incredible to be enjoyed on their own and the songs are incredible to be enjoyed on their own. But as a whole, as a cohesive two sides of a band kind of, in my opinion, at their like creative, emotional conduit prime,
00:58:57
Speaker
is just really happy. I'm so, I'm so happy we have this album. I'm going to be even more happy if we one day get a vinyl version of it and even triple happy if that vinyl version also, if they finally put these out, uh, both versions on, you know, like Blu-ray or something as well. Cause I think that being able to revisit them visually, uh, would be incredible and worth it. And we'll go to Chris and I'll, and I, and I do, and I am happy.
00:59:25
Speaker
I guess, I don't know, selfish or given. I do like how much passion, and that's how they ended up in these episodes besides their journalistic background that Will and Ryan have for this album, and I'm glad that they could memorialize their thoughts about them. I really appreciated your observations and that you could have in the official Across the Wire, Sullivan Street episode that will be, I don't know, not time immemorial, but a long time hopefully.
00:59:49
Speaker
Uh, Chris, let's say our, our bootleg and live music expert, Chris Miggs, what are your thoughts on their official real bootleg release? The real, you know, that was available for sale, uh, about 10 spot. Well, I mean, it's interesting. I think one of the interesting things about this record to Jeff's point about how like kind of like shit kicking this record is and the, the high energy part of it is that, you know, what they cut out is some of the slower stuff, right? They cut and it begins from the encore.
01:00:20
Speaker
They cut Omaha and Mr. Jones from the middle, presumably because those arrangements are already on the other disc. They cut Goodnight Elizabeth, which was played that night, just so they sort of skip past it. And so you really get like in a show around this time, you would get, you know, mostly this energy with the sort of stripped down piece of it. Whereas here, this disc is really just all kind of all killer and kind of all high energy.
01:00:50
Speaker
I think Adam, the interesting thing, again, thinking about how many shows they played, and that this is the ending stretch of a tour, I think Adam sounds really fantastic on this disc. It's really like all of these performances, his voice sounds really incredible pretty much all the way through, and that to me was really the highlight. I hadn't listened to this one in a while, and I think part of it is that I like the shows from this tour, but they're not,
01:01:19
Speaker
They don't tend to be crazy different other than round tier.
Rare Performances and Song Selection
01:01:23
Speaker
They're not really going for it. In terms of alts, there's nothing in Elizabeth. There's usually nothing in Rain King besides a line or two. Even Murder of One, which had been sort of a big, long thing on the first tour, is kind of shorter in this one. And so I'd kind of forgotten, yeah, they really kicked the shit out of every song. And they sound amazing just because you wouldn't necessarily pick this as the tour to listen to 10 shows.
01:01:49
Speaker
It's still pretty great if you're listening, especially if you're just like picking up one. The other thing I want to call out, I really love reigning in Baltimore and I love, this is one of the only stretches that they played it. They played it like 10 or 12 times in 97. They played it a couple of times since then. I was lucky enough to be one of them in 2008.
01:02:13
Speaker
It's so great. And if there's, there is some video, uh, not interestingly, this didn't make the 10 spot. This got cut. I assume it was a commercial break. Same as children in bloom is also not on the 10 spot set list. But if you go my favorite version, you can go to there's a video, uh, let's say the blockbuster pavilion.
01:02:32
Speaker
very, very 90s name in somewhere called Devore, California. I assume it's just one of those California desert towns in the middle. No, it's near May. So it's, yeah, it's just, I guess just officially it's not in the San, kind of like the Highland show that was just in, it's officially in the San Bernadette, but I guess it's not in the city limits. It's literally just outside. It's very close to, it's one of the little league
01:03:01
Speaker
Yeah. Stadiums or whatever, but yeah, no, it's out here. It's on the way to, on the way to Vegas, but out here. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you can find, there's a, there's a full 1997 pro shot, which beautiful performance. And the, you can see the, what them doing reigning in Baltimore, which is really beautiful. It's just Adam and Charlie. And there's this sort of low lighting on stage and it's just a really.
01:03:25
Speaker
one of my favorite live songs in that era is, again, I'm really glad it's captured here for posterity.
01:03:33
Speaker
It's so funny that I was going to mention that to the two of you, too, this, yeah, Counting Crows Divor, September 19th, 1997. And the reason I was going to mention it actually tied into what Ryan said and will as well, which I thought the star of this show was the energy and murder of one. I agree with you because it's you're just not good now. Yes, does he say get up a lot? Yeah, you're right. But I still love it because you're never going to see that anymore.
01:04:00
Speaker
Especially in the American audience. You're not gonna see these 60 year olds jumping up and down to murder a murder of one And I think I guess it was in the 2003 I they played murder one and people were jumping around but that's like the last time I saw that super high energy to that to that Song but anyway that that that that that energy is also in the divorce show for murder murder of one as well Yeah, everything I think you said I
01:04:25
Speaker
Yeah I didn't know for my notes what was cut out Chris and so there definitely was some intentionality of let's keep the harder songs.
01:04:35
Speaker
Now they kept raining in Baltimore and I agree with you I love that they kept that because they don't really throughout their history they don't really play that a lot live by itself if you really look at their overall concert history but they kept all of their hard songs they have angels and have you seen me lately and you get that juxtaposition from the first disc but they also had children in bloom and I'm not sleeping and
01:04:56
Speaker
When I hear those, and I always thought of those as companion, just like Jeff, you always thought of those angels, and have you seen me lately as companion pieces? I always thought, Children in Bloom, and I'm not sleeping as companion pieces. And I'll never forget, I mentioned her once on this show, a not so great ex who in that time also, she was the one that I mentioned in a previous episode as saying to me, oh, I heard Cannon Crow stink live, but I do like August.
01:05:22
Speaker
and then I thought about breaking up with her soon after. The other thing is I had a road trip with her and she, because she knew I liked them, she allowed me, right, to play the Across the Wire double disc. And then when it got to I'm Not Sleeping, which is what now track nine of the second disc, and it does, and I just think it's interesting that in that they kept the two, you know, those are not radio friendly songs, and I'm Not Sleeping in particular has a bit of cacophony in it, right, where they kind of
01:05:49
Speaker
And I just remember she's like, I've had enough with Counting Crows, but I'm not sleeping. Again, that was her final strike, I think. But my point is that I love that these are in. And I do think that Adam, a little bit, has a part of him that people, I could be wrong, but I think some of recovering, and I know he said he always wanted another guitar and he likes having the three guitars now. But there is a part of me that thinks he's so proud of their first song and so proud of Storyteller.
01:06:19
Speaker
he wants people to know he can do hard, raging rock when he wants to. I do agree, Ryan, that's why I think 1492 and Cowboys and some of those other songs on Saturday nights came up and he's like, hey, I can do this. I'm not just Mr. reigning in Baltimore and sappy. Wait, what did you call him? Will Satamy? Adam Duritz. So anyway,
01:06:46
Speaker
Yeah, because I didn't realize why Mr. Jones wasn't there. But my only negative thought about this is, in my opinion, Chris, you can tell me if I'm wrong. I didn't think the sound quality is the best.
01:07:03
Speaker
But I don't know if it feels like it to me, it didn't sound like it came from the board like some of the other ones do, but I could be totally off on on that. I mean, it's certainly from a board. I mean, I don't know how I mean, it was mixed for TV. Maybe I guess I don't know to what extent they had planned that this would be a release in advance. And so sometimes it's possible, speaking as someone who's just been reading a lot about Grateful Dead live recordings over the last year, you know, there's
01:07:33
Speaker
Like good, there's like, it's a board recording and it sounds good enough versus I'm recording it in enough channels and with the intentionality of mixing it later. And I don't, especially with something like storytellers, you almost assume they would, cause that's taped and they would have been thinking about that. Maybe they weren't thinking about that at quite the same level for.
01:07:54
Speaker
Not that it would be recorded at like two track or something, but like, you know, I don't know to what ability they had to manipulate it maybe quite the same way they had with storytellers. And again, it's a harder thing to mix, right? It's a bigger, you know, the full band.
01:08:10
Speaker
Oh, two. Yeah, thank you. No, two super quick observations, actually, which would just be the first and final track of this, which is that if you think about I think the fact of playing recovering the satellites, which is I think it just showed what they still like to do or playing these.
01:08:26
Speaker
I mean, it's such a Count and Crow song to start with, right? Like it wasn't a single on recovering the satellites. It's not a poppy song. It's not from August at all. And he's just like, we're going to start with recovering. Are you with me or not? And didn't one of the liner notes say something like about, you know, when the VH1 guy said, I think he said something like he was surprised how, you know, at this stage of their popularity, maybe by the time they saw this out, this concert,
01:08:55
Speaker
The fans did know all the lyrics to recovering the satellites because they were that popular then. And then, of course, ending, which I know they did a lot, but ending with Walker and I love a holiday in Spain. But of course, it's become a bit of a cliche and ending with Walkaways made me feel a little nostalgic to to that to
Guest Plugs and Closing Remarks
01:09:12
Speaker
that era. Yeah, so it's a great ender. It's a great I mean, again, I get it. But, you know, we're all in.
01:09:16
Speaker
And Ryan, one more thought from you. Just your random observation reminded me of a random observation of listening back through this. When you know the context that this was originally aired on MTV, it's funny now when you hear that Adams clearly, intentionally for television, sort of like muffling the profanities in the songs where he's like, you know, I'm not sleeping. He was like, I've got all this.
01:09:43
Speaker
to say it happens a few different times. And it's like, you know, if you were listening to it without that context, like, why? What happened there? Did he just forget the lyric of like, no, it was it was for broadcast cable and basic cable. And I'm sure some producer told somebody told him he had to he had to, you know, cut it out on the on the four letter words. It's the most obvious one where it's just sort of like he sort of gibberish his way through it. He hasn't changed the word.
01:10:12
Speaker
He like coolly like starts it and something in his brain. He's like, fuck, this is on TV. And he's like, shit. I can't say shit. Shit. I can't say shit. And he just sort of like, like, he just sort of like some syllables that sound.
01:10:29
Speaker
It's interesting to hear, because it's not, because interestingly on, and they must have just beeped it or something, but on the Mr. Jones version, he just, he says fucked, right? I mean, he says, but they must just get knowing there where they can, it's a tape show. And in the bits of crowd banter that we do get on the recording, he's like, woo, I'm fucking tired. And it's like, maybe that was just cut out of TV. I don't know, but it is kind of weird that some of it's in there and then some of it's clearly not.
01:11:00
Speaker
That's funny. Speaking of which, we've had more profanities in this episode than we've had in the past on Sullivan Street. So thanks so much. What a great group here. I will end with Jeff, please plug your book again and plug anything else you want to.
01:11:19
Speaker
Yes, ranking the life and music of Adam Duritz in County Crows is available as an audio book, paperback, hardcover, everywhere, fine books, and less than fine books are sold. Thanks so much. Yeah, yeah. Oh, and I was just going to say, I do have a new book that'll be out real, real soon, and I'm very excited about it. So probably by the next episode of Sullivan Street. I think we'll have a new one. It'll be exciting.
01:11:49
Speaker
And we love having you on the show. We look forward to bringing the Desert Life show and other future. No, we really do. I really appreciate you being a regular guest on the podcast.
01:11:59
Speaker
Ryan, let's go to you and anything you want to plug, or how can people follow you and your podcasts? Sure. First of all, I was so happy when I saw on Reddit that you guys had started this podcast, because I'm a person that likes to make podcasts about things I love. And I was almost like, oh, I wish I'd start. What a great idea. I wish I had thought to do it. And you guys have been doing such a great job here. So totally not music at all.
01:12:27
Speaker
the things I'm super interested in is electric cars and specifically Teslas. And believe it or not, I do a weekly Tesla podcast. And yes, there is there is always a lot to talk about around that company. I've been doing it for over eight years. So if you're curious, just Google Ride the Lightning Tesla because the name of its Ride the Lightning, the Tesla unofficial podcast. In hindsight, I should have just gone with a more SEO friendly thing like the Tesla podcast. But
01:12:54
Speaker
But the writer in me got a little too cute with it. So I do that. Those come out every Sunday. And then, like I think I might have mentioned earlier, my day job, I talk video games and make stuff about video games for IGN.com. So I really appreciate you guys having me. This was a real thrill for me.
01:13:13
Speaker
Oh, it was so much fun. Thank you. And Will, let's please, I know if people can find you on Twitter and other, please, please let us know. Yeah, yeah. Like I said earlier, I'm the zine editor at Bambox. So definitely check out Bambox for all your fine vinyl represses with artist specific zines that we have a lot of fun writing. You can also find my own writing at places like No Depression. And I think my most recent piece at Spin Magazine was about
01:13:42
Speaker
the 1983 Knight Rider Christmas song, so be sure to check that out for complete randomness. But yeah, if you want to follow my writings, I've not really anchored in one place, so my Twitters will underscore Hodge. That's H-O-D-G-E. And I'll call it Twitter and not X until the day I die, because I'm a contrarian 90s Gen Xer. But yeah, thanks for having me on. This has been a really incredible chat, not only about
01:14:10
Speaker
the crows, but this specific era of the crows that I dig so much. So it's been quite a fun time talking with all you guys. That's great. And thank you to our listeners in the community. It keeps growing. And that's why we've had such great guests as the three we have on today. So we have all sorts of exciting future podcasts planned in 2024, Chris and I. So keep listening to Sullivan Street. See you next time. Thank you.